# Transition from Env Engineer/Project Management to IT



## livingbliss (May 8, 2012)

I've been reading about certifications etc.. and career paths but would like advice specific to my situation.

I'm a environmental engineer - project & program manager ... had a very successful career but took time off to raise my children.. too much time. Consulting apparently doesn't look good on the resume'. 
I got my PMP certification last August thinking that would boost my resume' but honestly ppl seem to be looking for IT credentials and experience when hiring PMs. I'm "computer savvy" for the avg person having done some limited programming, web development, and played around with Brain Computer Interface applications-devel. 

I'd like to get a job with the federal government as an IT specialist perhaps systems analyst or manager. (my engineering career was with the Air Force - civilian - and I have reinstatement rights up to a GS-12 level) ... I will meet their basic education requirement with a BS in Engineering... but really What IT certification (or possibly short term degree program) would qualify me to actually do the work and help me land the job?

Thanks for your practical advice!


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

The reason why you're finding it difficult to get an IT PM job is because experience is crucial to being a good IT PM. And employers are starting to figure that out. To be brutally honest, I have yet to meet a good IT PM who didn't have real-world IT experience. The ones who don't have IT experience simply aren't very good. They tend to overpromise or set unrealistic goals because they simply don't understand the technology as they should. Being "computer savvy" doesn't cut it anymore. Neither certifications nor degrees can make someone a good IT PM; only experience can do that, in my opinion.

The problem with switching fields and becoming an IT analyst is the same problem as you've found with becoming an IT PM: you need experience to qualify for the "good jobs". Certifications and degrees don't automagically qualify you to be able to do an IT job. And I would guess that entry-level jobs (which don't require experience) aren't going to pay anywhere near what you're making now. Consider: would I be able to leave IT, where I have 14 years of experience, knock down a few certifications, and get a job as an environmental engineer PM? Probably not.

I always hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I would assume you'd rather want someone be truthful with you than have someone sugar coat the situation and cause you to unexpectedly set yourself up for failure.

If you have your heart set on IT, and you absolutely can't start at the bottom of the IT career ladder, your best bet is probably with the government. You'll have hiring preference on your side. In addition, you are more likely to encounter a hiring manager in government who is clueless about IT experience requirements than you would be out in the civilian world.

Hope this helps.


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## livingbliss (May 8, 2012)

Thanks for your honest opinion. 
I think a truly gifted PM is an asset regardless of technical background because they use the team experts and require only a general understanding to be able to interface with them. WHat they really have is an ability to "see" the various paths of a project and steer it strategically... good communication/soft skills is a must as well. 

I do get your point tho and I'd like to elaborate on my goal: I want to use my talent for problem solving (analytical AND divergent thinking)... I'd like to work into a job field that is easy to find anywhere I want to go - with the government (because of my years in/retirement and so I can switch to jobs overseas in a few years) and I am expecting to come in at a GS 7 or 9 and fast track to a higher level due to my program management experience. .... IT is a field I'm interested in because it seems to present a continually fresh problem-solving challenge (I like that). 

My degree was in Civil Engineering (GA Tech '88) but I rarely used the technical training... success was more about willingness to dig in and work - adaptability/innovation - and people skills.

- Thanks


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

If you can sell it, by all means, do so. I'm simply giving you the perspective from what I've experienced as a tech. Those "computer-savvy-but-lacking-experience" PMs also thought they were seeing good paths and providing awesome opportunities for clients, but reality rarely matched up with their expectations and promises. 

Sure, the PMs would solicit our technical advice... but when it didn't line up with the starry-eyed goals they had imagined (and it rarely did), they promptly scrapped our advice in favor of what "sounded good". After all, how were they to know that we were giving them good advice? They lacked the experience to know any better. 

Worse, those PMs rarely saw the problems they themselves caused. When they did, they blamed the techs for not pulling off the impossible. But how were they to know? They lacked the experience to know any better.

It sounds as though you have your heart set on this regardless of the advice I have given. Sadly, it sounds exactly like the paragraphs I have described above: you know exactly what you want, and when reality doesn't match up, you drive forward anyway.

I give this advice with absolutely no malice or snarkiness, LB. Just want to give you the right perspective going into the situation, you know? I truly hope everything works out for you!


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## livingbliss (May 8, 2012)

Well... my original question still stands.... what type of training or certification would allow me to get the job... and do a good job? I think I'm being reasonable to expect a gs-7 or 9... Narcissists are everywhere - but they usually don't go to places like TechSupport Forum to ask advice... although they probably show up to give it.

Thanks,
LB


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Not sure where you get that I'm narcissistic... the post had nothing to do with me. I simply explained why you're probably not getting much traction getting hired as an IT PM. After all, you yourself said, "honestly ppl seem to be looking for IT credentials and experience when hiring PMs". When I agree with you, you get mad?

Hopefully someone else will come along and give you better advice than I was able to.

I wish I knew of a certification that would qualify you to become a systems analyst or a manager. I typically advise most people starting out in IT to get their A+, Network+, and/or Microsoft client (MCTS) certifications... but those are for entry-level roles. After getting experience there, they typically move up to server admin and, later, network admin roles. For those, one would typically get certified in what they have experience doing, whether that be working with servers (MCITP), Cisco devices (CCNA, CCNP), or whatever brand of firewall they have experience with.

IT managers don't typically need much in the way of certification... but most are hired only after spending years in IT. Some, however, are hired with just a college degree (and often, any degree will do - I've known quite a few non-technical IT managers with a BS in Business or an MBA), though these are becoming fewer in number.

Again, I hope this helps... even if you didn't care much for the advice I've been giving.  Perhaps someday you will discover that I was simply trying to be helpful to you.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Hi I can only say with IT you have to start at the bottom rung and work up shortcuts are around but a lack of experience will soon show BM is giving you it warts and all,the need to learn from the guts out (hardware)and into the os and programming so that you have all available options at your fingertips would give you the widest experience and offer your client a insight on the best possible path


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

livingbliss said:


> I think a truly gifted PM is an asset regardless of technical background because they use the team experts and require only a general understanding to be able to interface with them. WHat they really have is an ability to "see" the various paths of a project and steer it strategically... good communication/soft skills is a must as well.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...


All that is true, IMO, but it's always nice to be able to know if a Team Expert is really. . . an expert or not.

Accounting & Finance degrees here, around the same time as you; however, later as a Project Director, State Sales & Use Tax systems for a Fortune 100 corp, I found knowing both ends to be invaluable.




livingbliss said:


> Well... my original question still stands.... what type of training or certification would allow me to get the job... and do a good job? I think I'm being reasonable to expect a gs-7 or 9...


Are there any CERT requirements posted for the positions you're looking at?

Microsoft Certifications | Certification Programs | IT Certifications

Sorry, no system-related CERTS here.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

So your an environmental engineer who does project management?

But your not an systems engineer but want to be an IT project manager. This does not make sense to me and is probably why your not getting where you want.

You cant be a systems engineer without starting at the bottom and getting the relevant experience, most likely from tech support > network support etc etc.

No one walks into a networking job without experience.

Whilst you may be good at setting out plans and timescales and things like that for say a project such as installing new network cables for a company that has 1500 work stations and 15 - 20 servers. Do you know how long it takes to install plenum cables and stuff without disrupting the current state of the network and then testing it all without disrupting users if at all possible?

Until you have experience of such things then you may find it a hard job to do. This is why experience is neccesary for such a position and most likely why employers are not hiring.


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## livingbliss (May 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses...
I did not intend to insult anyone here by implying that I didnt need to go back and follow the longer path of education & experience that you folks have under your belts.... Honestly, I was asking here because I respect your expertise. I was just looking for advice on how I might spin up as efficently as possible - given that I have some experience in management and a fairly diverse technical background (although admittedly not strong in the IT realm).... I GET that you are all saying there are no shortcuts. I"m looking into this because there are no jobs in my area for managing environmental cleanup projects (as a land-manager rather than service provider). It's not that I urgently need a job and/or money.... it's that I want to use my brain and keen ability to problem solve, etc... and it seems here locally most jobs have an element of IT to them.... and I'd like to easily move around when my kids are out of school and I'm free to go. 

I guess I will go down to the local gov't offices (park svc, forest svc) and ask them what skills/training/certification would be of value to them.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

We all realise your aim but want to be as honest with you as possible and if you have the time then that is good you can then start the process of learning BM gave you some of the areas to start with and you can get some very useful books for self study
mike myers A+ http://www.amazon.com/CompTIA-Certification-Seventh-Edition-220-701/dp/0071701338 is a starting point you can also get network + just scroll down the page for the latest realeases


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

No one was insulted but as you will find there are many adverts on TV or in schools and universities that say things like "get this and earn 50k a year" or "do this cours with us and we guarantee you will get your dream job in 18 months and earn thousands" Even Universities will say do this course and you will be guaranteed a good future career.

Unfortunatley its all BS. It took me 8 years to get into IT mainly because I was applying for positions above my experience level and also the fact that I was not prepared to take the massive pay drop involved.

It wasn't until people mainly Boson Michael set me on the right track.

As Joeten has pointed out you should start with the A+ and N+ and I would sugest then you do something like the xp client 70-270 and the windows 7 client 70-680.


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## jenae (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi, I would like to inject a more positive spin on this, enthusiasm is not allied to experience and if you want something enough then you will make it happen. Forget age and whether you start at the bottom all journeys begin with the first step.

If you want this, then it's up to you to make it happen, if it was easy it probably wouldn't be worth doing anyway. The qualifications needed are not that difficult and can be fun. Just don't try for a PhD in the registry.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

I don't believe anyone was trying to dampen any enthusiasm jenae more being honest about the route required,if my comments came across that way I do apologies


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## jenae (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi, no my comments were directed at the OP, I agree with the realistic approach, however nothing worth doing is going to be easy. I merely implied that if you want something enough, then it is up to you.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Sure got that right (sometimes even the stuff not worth it takes some effort lol)


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