# Would updating my Graphic card suffice?



## Juub (May 21, 2012)

Hello everybody, I'm a first time poster and long time lurker. I used to love PC gaming but I discarded it for console gaming the past 7 years. Now I'm back on the PC.

Here is my build.

Intel Core Duo E8400 3.00GHZ

4GB Kingston DDR2 RAM

Nvdia GeForce GTS 250 512MB

I honestly do not recall my motherboard but I know it is Asus and the RAM slots are not compatible with DDR3 memory. I want to play games such as Skyrim on high settings with maxed FPS. I understand my PC as a whole and my graphic card are fairly unimpressive. Would I just need to update my RAM to 8GB instead of 4GB and get a new graphic card? Or should I just build a new PC. I've got a budget of 1700$. Any help is appreciated. Thank you all.


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## JimE (Apr 16, 2009)

A video card upgrade would help.

But $1700 would build a nice gaming rig. Read hear> http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...evised-2012-and-updated-regularly-448272.html


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

Dogg said:


> A video card upgrade would help.
> 
> But $1700 would build a nice gaming rig. Read hear> http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...evised-2012-and-updated-regularly-448272.html


Ok. Thanks. 1700$ was supposed to go towards the purchase of a new car but I can always settle for a cheaper car and more powerful computer. 

Say, what graphic cards in the 200-300$ range would be good for my current build? Or is my motherboard and lack of DDR3 RAM too much of a problem to overcome? I'd much rather spend 250$ on a graphic card and add an extra 1450$ to my car than investing a whole 1500-1700$ for a new PC.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

That puts you into a GTX 560Ti or a Radeon HD 7850. Anything faster will begin to be bottenecked by your dual core proc.

On special for $235 until this coming Wednesday.
ASUS GeForce GTX 560 Ti DirectCU Top OC 900MHZ 1GB 4.2GHZ DDR5 2xDVI HDMI PCI-E DX11 Video Card - ASUS - ENGTX560 Ti DCII TOP/2DI/1GD5

Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 860MHZ 2GB 4.8GBPS GDDR5 DVI HDMI 2XMINIDP PCI-E Video Card - SAPPHIRE - 11200-00-20G

You should have a 650 watt (or better) power supply to carry either of these.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

I only got a 500W power supply. R5-500-PCAR-A3. My guess is that it's a 500W power supply based on the sticker. That's a bit weak.


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## helios19 (Nov 25, 2008)

Hi Juub,

I got the same specs as you apart from the GPU and PSU! 

Yeah you should go with Gcavan's advice. As for the PSU go with good quality brands like Seasonic, Corsair or XFX.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

gcavan said:


> That puts you into a GTX 560Ti or a Radeon HD 7850. Anything faster will begin to be bottenecked by your dual core proc.
> 
> On special for $235 until this coming Wednesday.
> ASUS GeForce GTX 560 Ti DirectCU Top OC 900MHZ 1GB 4.2GHZ DDR5 2xDVI HDMI PCI-E DX11 Video Card - ASUS - ENGTX560 Ti DCII TOP/2DI/1GD5
> ...





helios19 said:


> Hi Juub,
> 
> I got the same specs as you apart from the GPU and PSU!
> 
> Yeah you should go with Gcavan's advice. As for the PSU go with good quality brands like Seasonic, Corsair or XFX.


Ok. I'll probably go get the power supply as soon as I can. What kind of performances can I expect with the GPU and PSU upgrade? I've been told my CPU is decent. Nothing really powerful but good enough to have 60FPS if coupled with a strong enough GPU.


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

Your CPU should be able to handle the Skyrim on high comfortably. Push it too high and you'll see FPS loss.

A perfect video card for your setup would be the HD 6870. Its price/performance is excellent but is not quite high-end enough that your CPU would bottleneck.

For HD 6870 and 7850, you'll need a good quality 650-watt PSU. For the 560 Ti, you'll want a 750-watt.


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## helios19 (Nov 25, 2008)

toothman said:


> A perfect video card for your setup would be the HD 6870. Its price/performance is excellent but is not quite high-end enough that your CPU would bottleneck.


Just wandering, what would be the most expensive card you you would suggest for that cpu?


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

The CPU/GPU demand for each game can be different, but going off Skyrim it would be an HD 6870 or GTX 560. Anything more I'd expect a bottleneck from the CPU in virtually any of the demanding games.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

Thanks guys. Will my motherboard be compatible with the GPU? I got an Asus P5QL and it's not compatible with DDR3 RAM. If I gotta get a new motherboard as well as DDR3 RAM, I might as well build a new PC altogether.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

You're good to go. Type of system RAM has no affect on what type of VRAM your graphics card may use, and vice versa. 

What matters is that your board has at least one PCI-e x16 slot. Ideally it would support PCI-e 2.0 or better, but that is not a requirement.

PS: I just checked the Asus product page and your P5QL supports PCI-e 2.0, so you're golden.


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## JimE (Apr 16, 2009)

Power supply info here> http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f210/power-supply-information-and-selection-192217.html


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

gcavan said:


> That puts you into a GTX 560Ti or a Radeon HD 7850. Anything faster will begin to be bottenecked by your dual core proc.
> 
> On special for $235 until this coming Wednesday.
> ASUS GeForce GTX 560 Ti DirectCU Top OC 900MHZ 1GB 4.2GHZ DDR5 2xDVI HDMI PCI-E DX11 Video Card - ASUS - ENGTX560 Ti DCII TOP/2DI/1GD5
> ...


Which one gives the better performances? Obviously, if the GTX 560 does I'll buy it tonight as the discount ends tomorrow.



Dogg said:


> Power supply info here> http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f210/power-supply-information-and-selection-192217.html


 Got that bookmarked already. :thumb:


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## shotgn (Aug 10, 2008)

The 7850 is a better card, although the 560 is not that much slower. Your call


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

shotgn said:


> The 7850 is a better card, although the 560 is not that much slower. Your call


For now it's quite a bit cheaper for 234$ but I was recommended to get a 750W PSU for it. Generally, 750W seems more expensive than 650W so I guess buying the GTX 560+750W PSU will be pretty much the same as getting the Radeaon 7850+650W PSU right?

Also, my monitor isn't too good. Will it be able to display the graphics of games properly? I'm not even sure that thing is 720p. It's a Samsung SyncMaster 2033SB.


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## shotgn (Aug 10, 2008)

It will display fine. But which ever gpu you decide on will really shine on a higher resolution monitor. 

Ati/amd video cards have always had lower power draw than nvidia. 

Hence the wattage difference on the 2 cards.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

shotgn said:


> It will display fine. But which ever gpu you decide on will really shine on a higher resolution monitor.
> 
> Ati/amd video cards have always had lower power draw than nvidia.
> 
> Hence the wattage difference on the 2 cards.


Ugh, I hate that snowball effect PC gaming does.

Wanna have better gaming experience? Update GPU.

That GPU will need a better CPU, you need to get a new one too.

Oh, both of these will need an adequate PSU. You'll buy one as well.

But these graphics would look so much nicer on a brand new monitor. Might as well take one while you're at it.

Huh? Screw this, build one from scratch. :rofl:

I've finally decided to go with the Radeaon 7850 and this power supply here.

How does it look?


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## helios19 (Nov 25, 2008)

I dont think the GS series is that good. Go with the TX or HX Corsair PSU imo.

Newegg.com - CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX650 V2 650W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

Even if it was one we recommended (it isn't), the GS700 is expensive at MemXpress.

Try this one of these on for size. All top quality Seasonic made: 
Corsair TX650 V2 650W ATX 12V Single Rail 53A 24PIN ATX Power Supply Active PFC 80PLUS Bronze - Corsair - CMPSU-650TXV2

Free ground shippingon this
XFX 650W PRO650W Core Edition Single Rail ATX 12V 53A 24PIN ATX Power Supply 80PLUS Bronze PSU - XFX - P1650SNLB9

This one is modular to boot:
XFX 750W PRO750W XXX Edition Single Rail ATX 12V 62A 24PIN ATX Modular Power Supply 80PLUS Silver - XFX - P1750BNLG9

PS: If you cannot make your purchase before the sale ends, don't worry, NCIX has a new weekly sale flyer every Wednesday night which always includes something interesting. You just have to be willing to read the fine print to find it.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

Ok. Thanks guys. I'm reading the thread about PSU's right now. If I plan on upgrading my machine in the near future. Would I be better off with a 750W or 650W power supply? I know if I intend to get an Nvidia GPU, a 750 would be preferable but generally speaking, would a 750W be more desirable? So many to choose from, it's difficult.

Edit: In the end I settled for this PSU I won't cut corners to save money.


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

You can't go wrong with buying "too good" of a PSU. You've only bought extra reliability, so that was a good choice. Same reason I've an 850w in mine :smile:


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

toothman said:


> You can't go wrong with buying "too good" of a PSU. You've only bought extra reliability, so that was a good choice. Same reason I've an 850w in mine :smile:


Great. And one last thing before I finish. Is there that much of a difference between the 7850 and the GTX 560??

Edit: Also, with just 4GB of DDR2 Kingston RAM, should I upgrade to 8GB?


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

It's quite a bit better:
AnandTech - Bench - GPU12

2gb of memory will allow you to download huge texture pack mods, too. For games like Skyrim. Otherwise there's no real difference.

As for RAM, I would, but the difference isn't huge.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

toothman said:


> It's quite a bit better:
> AnandTech - Bench - GPU12
> 
> 2gb of memory will allow you to download huge texture pack mods, too. For games like Skyrim. Otherwise there's no real difference.
> ...


Too late. Already purchased the GTX 560. I thought there was no big difference between the two. Guess it might be a bit late to cancel my purchase now. Oh well, too bad I guess.


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## helios19 (Nov 25, 2008)

I suggest 8gb of RAM because DDR2 is already quite pricey and it's only going to get more expensive now that DDR3 has become mainstream.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

helios19 said:


> I suggest 8gb of RAM because DDR2 is already quite pricey and it's only going to get more expensive now that DDR3 has become mainstream.


Isn't DD3 better than DDR2 though? Why would the older technology be more expensive? I also got the GTX560 for only 234 which is 25$ cheaper than the 7850. Maybe I should cancel the order, I really thought the difference was minimal between these two.


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## helios19 (Nov 25, 2008)

Juub said:


> Isn't DD3 better than DDR2 though? Why would the older technology be more expensive. I also got the GTX560 for only 234 which is 25$ cheaper than the 7850. Maybe I should cancel the order, I really thought the difference was minimal between these two.


Sooner or later retailers will stop selling different varieties of DDR2 Memory (different speeds). Once distribution drops, prices increase until it phases out completely.

If you can, go with the 7850 as it seems to have the spotlight atm! xP


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

Juub said:


> Too late. Already purchased the GTX 560. I thought there was no big difference between the two. Guess it might be a bit late to cancel my purchase now. Oh well, too bad I guess.


If you ordered from Newegg, you still have time to cancel. Most online retailers have the option to let you cancel the order. The sooner, the better.

I successfully cancelled a Newegg order just a couple days ago. It was around 5-6 hours after placing it.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

> Too late. Already purchased the GTX 560. I thought there was no big difference between the two. Guess it might be a bit late to cancel my purchase now


NCIX is based on Vancouver time. Check your email updates. As long as the item has not been shipped, give their CS a call and have the order changed.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

Yeah, cancelled my order. I'll get the Sapphire Radeon 7850 2GB instead.

Does the memory being DDR3 or DDR2 make a big difference? If it does, I may as well purchase a new motherboard and build a new PC from scratch while I'm at it.


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## helios19 (Nov 25, 2008)

It depends on the speeds... DDR2 can reach up to 1366MHz from what I've seen. In that case getting DDR3 1600 wouldn't make much of a difference. However if you got DDR2 800 atm and you switch to DRR3 1600... then you should see a difference and imo would be worth doing.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

helios19 said:


> It depends on the speeds... DDR2 can reach up to 1366MHz from what I've seen. In that case getting DDR3 1600 wouldn't make much of a difference. However if you got DDR2 800 atm and you switch to DRR3 1600... then you should see a difference and imo would be worth doing.


I don't know the clock speed(is that what we call it?) of my RAM currently installed. I know I bought two Kingston 2GB 1333MHZ a month ago or so, but I've found out they weren't even compatible with my Motherboard.

This is what I got from CPU-Z. I'm guessing DRAM frequency isn't the same thing as the speed you mention in this post? I don't really know how I would find my RAM speed in that case.

Edit: Also, I can't thank you guys enough. I'm learning a lot of useful things talking to you.


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## helios19 (Nov 25, 2008)

Juub said:


> I don't know the clock speed(is that what we call it?) of my RAM currently installed. I know I bought two Kingston 2GB 1333MHZ a month ago or so, but I've found out they weren't even compatible with my Motherboard.
> 
> This is what I got from CPU-Z. I'm guessing DRAM frequency isn't the same thing as the speed you mention in this post? I don't really know how I would find my RAM speed in that case.


Did you attach the CPU-Z screens? I don't seem to see any attachments. Plus, you can also see the RAM speeds in the BIOS.



> Edit: Also, I can't thank you guys enough. I'm learning a lot of useful things talking to you.


Same here, I'm learning heaps too! I love this place.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

helios19 said:


> Did you attach the CPU-Z screens? I don't seem to see any attachments. Plus, you can also see the RAM speeds in the BIOS.
> 
> 
> 
> Same here, I'm learning heaps too! I love this place.


Oopsie. There it is.


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

They're running at 800Mhz, which is alright. DDR3 would be faster but the difference isn't huge. The only issue is that in some games this will bottleneck a video card as powerful as the 7850.

I'd just upgrade the video card now, then save up and upgrade the CPU/Mobo/RAM later. Just don't go broke or into debt :smile:


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## darfvayda (Apr 9, 2012)

You have a good proc and sufficient RAM, however a GTX560 and 7850 will be overkill for it. I would have suggested a 6850 which is a great performer and could have ran on your 500w PSU.

PassMark Videocard Value Chart - Performance / Price of Videocards

Newegg.com - XFX Double D HD-685X-ZDFC Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity

I would not suggest breaking this system so far apart as to make a new build out of it, with new mobo, PSU etc., just upgrade it to be a balanced functioning system with the least $ into it as possible. Then look at a new build as totally separate.


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## helios19 (Nov 25, 2008)

Yeah Toothman is right, if you're gonna change the mobo... you may as well go all out then. So best to save that for later when you save up more!


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

toothman said:


> They're running at 800Mhz, which is alright. DDR3 would be faster but the difference isn't huge. The only issue is that in some games this will bottleneck a video card as powerful as the 7850.
> 
> I'd just upgrade the video card now, then save up and upgrade the CPU/Mobo/RAM later. Just don't go broke or into debt :smile:


Ok good. By the way, how do you know it is an 800MHZ? Is it because it's Dual Channel and has a DRAM frequency of 400? So two channels of 400 is 800MHZ? Or something else.



darfvayda said:


> You have a good proc and sufficient RAM, however a GTX560 and 7850 will be overkill for it. I would have suggested a 6850 which is a great performer and could have ran on your 500w PSU.
> 
> PassMark Videocard Value Chart - Performance / Price of Videocards
> 
> ...


 Actually, I was thinking more about giving my current PC to my brother and just build a new one with a budget of around 1300-1500$ if I need to go as far as to change the Motherboard, PSU, GPU and RAM. I would just get fresh parts and start from scratch. 

Edit: Also, by overkill you mean that my CPU wouldn't be able to handle the GTX 560 or Radeon 7850? Also, I was looking for a card that would allow me to play recent game on high/very high settings with 50-60FPS. Would that card be good enough?


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

Note that for an HD 6850 your currently installed PSU would be insufficient. It would probably be alright for a while but eventual failure is a high risk. A good quality ~650-watt unit or better is recommended. SeaSonic, XFX, and Corsair (TX, AX, and HX models) are the most reliable.

The PSU you linked in post #21 is an excellent choice if you're willing to spend the $$. It'd handle any single card you're gonna throw at it and will last forever.

By overkill, he means your CPU won't be able to keep pace with the video card's potential. Bottlenecking means your system is only as fast as its slowest performer, so even though the 7850 is an ultra/max kind of card, your CPU and RAM will only handle high.


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## darfvayda (Apr 9, 2012)

Juub said:


> Actually, I was thinking more about giving my current PC to my brother and just build a new one with a budget of around 1300-1500$ if I need to go as far as to change the Motherboard, PSU, GPU and RAM. I would just get fresh parts and start from scratch.
> 
> Edit: Also, by overkill you mean that my CPU wouldn't be able to handle the GTX 560 or Radeon 7850?


Yes, the value of the card and need to upgrade the PSU does not match the value and performance of the rest of the system. Also, the GTS 250 is not a bad card, 6850 would be an upgrade but maybe not worth the outlay that could be put toward a new system. That system seems a pretty balanced system as is. If you can give it to your brother or sell it and start from scratch, that would be better.

PS have you done any overclocking on it? That would help and cost nothing (except electricity). Also, go to crucial.com and download the system scanner, it will tell you what motherboard you hav and what RAM it can take.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

toothman said:


> Note that for an HD 6850 your currently installed PSU would be insufficient. It would probably be alright for a while but eventual failure is a high risk. A good quality ~650-watt unit or better is recommended. SeaSonic, XFX, and Corsair (TX, AX, and HX models) are the most reliable.
> 
> The PSU you linked in post #21 is an excellent choice if you're willing to spend the $$. It'd handle any single card you're gonna throw at it and will last forever.
> 
> By overkill, he means your CPU won't be able to keep pace with the video card's potential. Bottlenecking means your system is only as fast as its slowest performer, so even though the 7850 is an ultra/max kind of card, your CPU and RAM will only handle high.


 That's too bad. Buying such a powerful GPU without having the components to take advantage of its full potential would be such a waste. I'm seriously considering building a new system from scratch and give that one away.

Would picking apart the system over time be a good idea? Say, I upgrade the PSU first. Then the GPU, then the Motherboard, then the RAM, so on and so forth? Or would it be a better option to just build a new one and forget about the current one?



darfvayda said:


> Yes, the value of the card and need to upgrade the PSU does not match the value and performance of the rest of the system. Also, the GTS 250 is not a bad card, 6850 would be an upgrade but maybe not worth the outlay that could be put toward a new system. That system seems a pretty balanced system as is. If you can give it to your brother or sell it and start from scratch, that would be better.
> 
> PS have you done any overclocking on it? That would help and cost nothing (except electricity). Also, go to crucial.com and download the system scanner, it will tell you what motherboard you hav and what RAM it can take.


I purchased the whole system around 3 years ago. I built it with a friend of my brother. He told me the CPU was already overclocked. I don't know if he did it himself or if it was overclocked when we bought it.

That's what crucial.com gives me for my Asus P5QL. Right here is the recommended memory. DDR2 is really expensive.


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## darfvayda (Apr 9, 2012)

toothman said:


> Note that for an HD 6850 your currently installed PSU would be insufficient. .


Interesting, considering he's been running a GTS 250 on it for 3 years, and a 6850 uses less power.
GeForce GTS 250 512MB vs Radeon HD 6850 – Performance Comparison Benchmarks @ Hardware Compare


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

darfvayda said:


> Interesting, considering he's been running a GTS 250 on it for 3 years, and a 6850 uses less power.
> GeForce GTS 250 512MB vs Radeon HD 6850 – Performance Comparison Benchmarks @ Hardware Compare


I was reading the overclocking section and it's interesting to know that overclocking voids the warranty. It's weird because the retailer told me the CPU was already overclocked. Does that mean they basically sold me something with a voided warranty? Or might this be something with Manufacturer vs Retailer warranty.

Would that help knowing if my CPU is overclocked or not?










And as for the RAM, how have you guys guessed its speed? Nothing tells me it's 800MHZ on CPU-Z.


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## darfvayda (Apr 9, 2012)

CPU's don't come already overclocked, like vid cards do. You need to adjust BIOS settings. Your machine is 3+ years old so likely out of warranty and perfect for overclocking. I suggest you do some googling and reading on P5QL + overclocking. You can use MSI Afterburner to overclock your GTS 250

Just curious, but what are you Windows Experience Index scores, as is?

You 3ghz CPU is idling at 2ghz right there, so you have speedstep and/or other power saving features enabled, so likely not overclocked.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

darfvayda said:


> CPU's don't come already overclocked, like vid cards do. You need to adjust BIOS settings. Your machine is 3+ years old so likely out of warranty and perfect for overclocking. I suggest you do some googling and reading on P5QL + overclocking. You can use MSI Afterburner to overclock your GTS 250
> 
> Just curious, but what are you Windows Experience Index scores, as is?


Oh, you are right. My bad, he told me the GPU was overclocked. Not the CPU. Thanks for clarifying.

5.9. Lowest score is my Disk Data Transfer. The rest ranges from 6.6-7.0


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## darfvayda (Apr 9, 2012)

HDD never go above 5.9 You need SSD for that. Guessing gaming graphics is 7.0, and RAM and CPU are 6.6. That's a pretty well balanced system. I would leave the hardware as is and just learn to overclock on it, and keep an eye on slickdeals.net. For instance, Amazon recently had a 256GB Crucial M4 SSD for $209 shipped, when reg is about $248, and something like that you could use in that system in the mean time and then take back out when you have the rest of your parts for new build together.


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

darfvayda said:


> Interesting, considering he's been running a GTS 250 on it for 3 years, and a 6850 uses less power.
> GeForce GTS 250 512MB vs Radeon HD 6850 – Performance Comparison Benchmarks @ Hardware Compare


That's just it - it's always a gamble with low-quality or underpowered PSUs. Sometimes they'll do just fine, which accounts for the user experiences that say they're fine, but the risk of failure is much higher than if you use something more reliable.

Rule of thumb here at TSF: Add 30% to the manufacturer's recommended wattage, then select a PSU from SeaSonic, XFX, or Corsair (TX, AX, and HX models only) which meets or exceeds that wattage.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Your 500W PSU (R5-500-PCAR-A3) ,which is a poor quality PSU to start with, would not be recommended by any Tech Team Member here for use with a 6850 GPU. You need to be at 650W minimum with a good quality PSU to insure a sufficient supply of power over time.
SeaSonic-XFX-Corsair (not the CX-GS-M Series) are top quality.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

One question guys. If I buy the 7850 along with a new, better PSU will I be able to get game like Skyrim or Battlefield 3 to run on max settings? If not, I would just like to build a new gaming rig. How much would it cost for one running all most recent games at max settings%


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

As stated earlier, your current CPU/RAM will keep you from maxing out on the most demanding games. A truly "max everything out" system, properly built of course, will cost at least $900 with a 7850 and a 2500k, which can actually struggle with BF3 and Crysis 2 at max. Playable, but not always smooth (smooth would be ~40fps or greater).

You should be able to get constantly smooth framerates on high with your rig if you upgrade the PSU/GPU. Which really isn't much worse than max, in all honesty. The more you crank up the settings, the less difference it makes. For example, if you compare a $400 pc to an $800, the difference will be tremendous. But if you compare that $800 to a $1200, it really won't play very differently and you can clearly see the diminishing returns.

All that said, there's nothing wrong with you just replacing the PSU/GPU right now, then saving up to replace the CPU/Mobo/RAM later :smile: long term computer projects are fun.


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## darfvayda (Apr 9, 2012)

Why don't you overclock this system? You can get that E8400 well into the 7's in WEI. You can probably get it up to 7.0 to be even with the GPU on the stock HSF. I would recommend a cooler like this though
Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7

and you can overclock your vid card even further than what it alread is with MSI Afterbunner
MSI Afterburner

and that little tool right there, is why it is not worth buying and paying more for factory overclocked, or "superclocked" video cards... when you can just do it yourself for free.

Leave the system as is and just OC it, and save your money for a new build, IMO. What motherboard does it have?


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

toothman said:


> As stated earlier, your current CPU/RAM will keep you from maxing out on the most demanding games. A truly "max everything out" system, properly built of course, will cost at least $900 with a 7850 and a 2500k, which can actually struggle with BF3 and Crysis 2 at max. Playable, but not always smooth (smooth would be ~40fps or greater).
> 
> You should be able to get constantly smooth framerates on high with your rig if you upgrade the PSU/GPU. Which really isn't much worse than max, in all honesty. The more you crank up the settings, the less difference it makes. For example, if you compare a $400 pc to an $800, the difference will be tremendous. But if you compare that $800 to a $1200, it really won't play very differently and you can clearly see the diminishing returns.
> 
> All that said, there's nothing wrong with you just replacing the PSU/GPU right now, then saving up to replace the CPU/Mobo/RAM later :smile: long term computer projects are fun.


 And you're right once again. I cranked up the game all the way to ultra high and it barely made a difference but my framerate dropped to 10-15. Thing is, I already got a smooth framerate with my current build in Skyrim. I usually am in the range of 35-60. Very rarely do I drop below 40 actually, only in the most crowded areas. Would getting these parts make a real difference? 



darfvayda said:


> Why don't you overclock this system? You can get that E8400 well into the 7's in WEI. You can probably get it up to 7.0 to be even with the GPU on the stock HSF. I would recommend a cooler like this though
> Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7


 I've never overclocked before so I felt a bit reluctant to do it but I'll give it a go regardless. My system is OOW. Worse case if it crumbles, I'll just purchase a new one, that's what I had planned to do anyway. It'll also allow me to gain extra knowledge.



> and you can overclock your vid card even further than what it alread is with MSI Afterbunner
> MSI Afterburner


 Which video card? My current one or one of the GTX 560 or Radeon 7850?



> and that little tool right there, is why it is not worth buying and paying more for factory overclocked, or "superclocked" video cards... when you can just do it yourself for free.
> 
> Leave the system as is and just OC it, and save your money for a new build, IMO. What motherboard does it have?


 Asus P5QL. It can't take DDR3 RAM. Alright, so all I need is a better PSU and GPU? I'm on it, I'll get the 7850 and that PSU mentioned earlier. Thank you guys. You're also right, I used FRAPS and 60% of the time I'm between 50-60FPS, 30% between 40-59FPS and 10% of the time below 40FPS but never below 30FPS.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Juub said:


> Alright, so all I need is a better PSU and GPU? I'm on it, I'll get the 7850 and that PSU mentioned earlier. Thank you guys.



Correct and good decision.


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## darfvayda (Apr 9, 2012)

oh that's right you said P5QL, yep you can def overclock your chip with that, and overclock your GTS 250 too, but probably not much more than it already is since it's overclocked from the factory. OC is not really a big deal as long as you keep an eye on temps, very unlikely your system will crumble. I OC brand new stuff but an older system like that is perfect to learn on, and will actually give you useable results, not just benchmarks and bragging rights.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Overclocking an older chip will only help a bit as compared to newer chips. The newer chips can do way more per clock cycle than the old e chips. Although in this case it would help out until a newer system can be built.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

Shoot...I just recalled why I wanted to build a new rig. The 2nd reason was that so I could mod games like Skyrim with texture packs and massive graphics overhaul while still keeping a smooth framerate. Guess that kills everything I've been planning... :facepalm:

Would those parts I aim to get still do the job?


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## darfvayda (Apr 9, 2012)

build a new monster, don't upgrade, and OC your old one to the max


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Overclocking will definitly help but my main point really is why throw money into older technology when the prices for new are very reasonable now.


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

darfvayda said:


> build a new monster, don't upgrade, and OC your old one to the max


Yeah, that's what I thought. I'll overclock the current one and give it to my brother and build a new one altogether. I kept thinking there was a reason I wanted to build a 1200$ PC other than just gaming. I had also planned to edit games and try myself at graphics mods as well. I'm a complete novice at that but hey, gotta start somewhere right? Or maybe I should do 2D first?



Amd_Man said:


> Overclocking will definitly help but my main point really is why throw money into older technology when the prices for new are very reasonable now.


 Yeah, the new plan is actually to build a completely new system now. Guess I'll have to consult the stickied builds thread.


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

Juub said:


> Shoot...I just recalled why I wanted to build a new rig. The 2nd reason was that so I could mod games like Skyrim with texture packs and massive graphics overhaul while still keeping a smooth framerate. Guess that kills everything I've been planning... :facepalm:
> 
> Would those parts I aim to get still do the job?


For the HD texture pack, all you really need is a video card with more than 1gb of memory.

Oh and btw, check out the Skyrim mod "FXAA Post Process Injector." Very little performance loss, but very nice visual improvement


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## Juub (May 21, 2012)

Ok great. I also heard about CrossFire for AMD and Sli for Nvidia. Is it worth it? It seems the community is divided on that matter. Some people tell me it gives much better performances and maxing demanding games without that is next to impossible with the mid-high end graphic cards. Others tell me it makes almost no difference for gaming. Should I consider it?

And toothman, I checked that out. It looks great. It's playable with the 7850 right? As for future mods that will improve the graphics even more, wouldd the 7850 be able to take them without a sharp drop in frame rate?

Also, I've heard that I should let my video card get that bit out of date, to then get a second version of it and Crossfire/Sli it.


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## toothman (Jul 13, 2008)

SLI/CX isn't really as cost-effective as a single card. Not all games scale well, some none at all, and some games just have compatibility issues. Two cards also generate more heat, consume more power, and come with twice the failure rate of a single card.

If you're going to crossfire, however, the 7850 is a good choice. Make sure you have a high quality 850-watt PSU if you plan to add a second 7850 eventually.

Also, the HD 7850 is able to max out Skyrim with HD textures very comfortably. My HD 6950 1gb has virtually identical performance to a 7850 and I do just that. Here's a video I put on YouTube of the performance to show a couple friends that you don't need more than 1gb of memory on a card :smile::

Skyrim - Alduin on Master + Max Graphics + Mods - YouTube

I use 2k HD textures, not the 4k ones you need more than 1gb of memory for. Which is still four times as detailed as the vanilla textures if I remember correctly lol. A 2gb card like the 7850 would be able to use the 4k textures.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Juub said:


> Ok great. I also heard about CrossFire for AMD and Sli for Nvidia. Is it worth it? It seems the community is divided on that matter. Some people tell me it gives much better performances and maxing demanding games without that is next to impossible with the mid-high end graphic cards. Others tell me it makes almost no difference for gaming. Should I consider it?


Two GPU's cost more, require and consume more power, generate more unneeded heat into the case and you get a small performance increase in the games/apps that can actually utilize two GPU's.
One better GPU is almost always the better option.


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