# Is Assassins Creed Brotherhood too violent?



## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Ubisoft just sent me the trailer to Assassins Creed Brotherhood. 
Does anyone else think that this is pretty violent. Cutting guys throats and stuff seems a bit over the top. It looks very well done but I'd have to say that I'd rather gun down whole squads of enemies with a machine gun any day or throw hand grenades into a crowded room, but cutting throats isn't my scene. 
I wouldn't buy it.
Interested to hear what others say.


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

I think it's fine. The E3 trailer barely had any blood, if at all. I've seen way worse.


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

Not really considering that happened back in the medieval times or when it was set.

I wouldn't want to see templars with guns in Assassins Creed tbh


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

I've played the Assassin Creed games and by far they have not been violent enough. Look at games with Gore like L4d 2. That is where the game needs to be at for gore and beyond.


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

Gears of War franchise is the goriest franchise I have ever seen. Nuff said.

Assassin's Creed 2 takes place in the Renaissance in Italy.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Well when I see the really gorey stuff it doesn't desensitize me. Especially watching shows like the *Pacific* and *Band of Brothers* I feel sad for all the men that made this country free even though the people who are dying on the show aren't dead. 

With games especially if the characters have no reference or pull towards you feeling for them then its hard to an emotional connection to them. The gore is like that if you can feel for the other person than its true that you won't care.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

It wasn't the people I was referring to when I said it was too violent. It was in fact a game made for all ages where throats are being cut with knives.
Most games are like comics. Just look at all the aliens we are blasting in Mass Effect 2. Just mindless fun.
But right now at this moment in Melbourne a 15 year old is on trial for the murder of an Indian student who he killed with a knife for no reason.
I don't have any evidence that playing games where you cut peoples throats actually shapes one's thinking towards personal acts of violence but I just think there should be a limit.


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

There is already a limit. There is a simulator that lets you play to kill John F. Kennedy as well as other tasteless games. I don't think Assassin's Creed is very bloody at all. Since when was this game intended for children? The last time I checked, it was rated M.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Children are not adults and if its rated that its meant for adults. If you look at Australian the government is just dumb when they just look at games are for kids and adults don't play games at all.

Gosuni makes the point and that is why we have a ratings system so its easy fro parents to tell which games are age appropriate.


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

Heat Sink said:


> It wasn't the people I was referring to when I said it was too violent. It was in fact a game made for all ages where throats are being cut with knives.
> Most games are like comics. Just look at all the aliens we are blasting in Mass Effect 2. Just mindless fun.
> But right now at this moment in Melbourne a 15 year old is on trial for the murder of an Indian student who he killed with a knife for no reason.
> I don't have any evidence that playing games where you cut peoples throats actually shapes one's thinking towards personal acts of violence but I just think there should be a limit.


I disagree, what drives people towards that isn't material such as games or movies, it is more the personality and blaming stuff on games, movies etc is just a cop-out.

They should deal with the cause, not the trigger


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Well I wish it was as simple as a lot of technically educated game gurus populating the world but sorry it isn't.
Sharing the world are a hell of a lot of violent low life that have had a rough upbringing and many hate themselves and the world.
Now some of these said low life or members of the low socio economic group as they are called in todays politically correct world don't need much of a trigger to go over the edge and a violent game is very likely that trigger.
It is ridiculous to write the whole theory off as anti gaming.
I'm a gamer and I love shooting rooms full of people in the games, but I'm not into doing it in real life. I do know however that there exists out there some that will.

There isn't any way to fix the situation because many of us want to play on.
We just have to arrest the influenced bad guys and accept that games just might be bad for some.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

If a game is likely to trigger someone then human interaction is a far morel likely cause. your argument seems like such a cop out.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

McNinja said:


> If a game is likely to trigger someone then human interaction is a far morel likely cause. your argument seems like such a cop out.


Can I ask a question here please? Are games team guys the only ones allowed to say stuff to us members at ground level or can we shoot back?


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

You can shoot back if you want. I'm afraid I I didn't read your whole post before. I jst want to say that there are always bad apples in this world and if that person is going to go off you can't just blame one thing in society, why it could just be genetics or a terrible mental disorder like schizophrenia.

I'm sorry if I insulted you Heatsink, got a little over myself there.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

That's alright Ninja, you remind me of me a lot actually.

Gosuni:_There is already a limit. There is a simulator that lets you play to kill John F. Kennedy as well as other tasteless games._

I didn't know that, but I am aware that the Australian governments have all tried to keep gaming and films here as wholesome as possible and that there is a lot of stuff being looked at in other countries that isn't allowed in here.

And Ninja, down here in Australia we like to think that we are above most others in the world and our government has legislated to see that to fruition.
I mean how do you think we come 4th in the Olympics each time with only 20 million people? We are a superior people. You heard of Vegemite?


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

Hey Heat Sink,

The Games Team part of our rank tells you that we represent the Gaming Section of TSF, this however does not mean we are more right then any other member. If you feel we have made a wrong post then correct us, everyone makes mistakes lol.

However, I do feel that Peer pressure is far, far more a trigger then Video Games. Most people can discern fiction (games) from reality but Peer pressure and social interaction isn't as simple as that. I study Psychology and I have learnt about influencing and studies such as Milgram et al's study shows that people will follow orders if they believe that person is of authority (e.g. someone in a lab coat).

Also, you can't really go on about Olympics as you have far more people then England and we still do ok. Propaganda is all it is...


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## wizard. (Jan 23, 2010)

No such thing as TOO violent. The game looks really well done, and i will definitely be investing some time and money into it.


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## Zealex (Nov 30, 2008)

TyranTheTerror said:


> No such thing as TOO violent.


There was a game on the news, where all you do is torture someone. That is the goal, using stakes, chainsaws, paintbrushes(yes paintbrushes), and other various sick methods. That isn't too violent? I personally find a game like that to be sickening and disturbing. 

Why is the Olympics and 'race superiority' being discussed in here? I can see that leading to a argument. No body is better than anybody else.

I don't think this game is violent. As long as a game isn't just about killing, and there are missions that actually 'mean something'. I think it's okay.

If anybody is interested, heres a video for E3. PlayStation 3 gets some bonuses.
YouTube - E3 2010 Coverage - Machinima - Assassin's Creed Brotherhood Demo (Sony Press Conference E3 2010)


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Look what you've done now Redeye, got me into trouble. All I was trying to do was let the rest of the world into our secret. Vegemite. Remember, _"We come from a land down under, where women throw and men chunder"_
And Redeye, the population of England [not Britain] is 51 million.

Thanks for including the video clip Zealex, this is the clip that I based my observation of violence on. Namely killing the guy with the axe and towards the end of the clip, cutting the guy's throat with his knife.

And Zealex, you need to lighten up a bit. It is just interactive fun between members.


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## Zealex (Nov 30, 2008)

Nobody is in trouble . Somewhere, someone can see 'my race is superior' offensive. Text can be read in multiple ways. I don't mind people having chats, but, you never know who may read that, and how they read it. They may find it offensive, and post something nasty. I just don't want to see something like this thread, become a full out flame war. If you feel like something you post can be read as offensive, make sure somehow you give indication that it is a joke. Therefore, the chance of a offense is much more less likely.

Moving on.... 

That part with an Axe is kind of violent. Though, the game is M so people who get the game should realize this wasn't made with kids purely in mind.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Admittedly Zealex, I keep forgetting that everyone on here isn't an Aussie. Down here everything is a joke. Australia? Fifty million blow flies can't be wrong mate.

M? Does that really stop the young brother and all his mates playing older brother's games?
To them M probably stands for 'Murder', 'Mayhem' or 'Massacre". ie, If it's got an M rating you need to play it.


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## Zealex (Nov 30, 2008)

I think that issue will lie in the parent's hands. They can hide the game if they really don't want the little one playing it. If the parent's really cared about it, they would take proper action. 

What I have been noticing, is that there seems to be more M games. I remember a lot of games were T, violence in games has definitely increased.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Its good that there are more M games. People who make the games realize that the real market is for people that are adults and they want adult situations to deal with. This doesn't mean that people can't enjoy the more comical games but people like the gritt TV shows and movies just like in video games.


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## wizard. (Jan 23, 2010)

Zealex said:


> There was a game on the news, where all you do is torture someone. That is the goal, using stakes, chainsaws, paintbrushes(yes paintbrushes), and other various sick methods. That isn't too violent? I personally find a game like that to be sickening and disturbing.
> 
> Why is the Olympics and 'race superiority' being discussed in here? I can see that leading to a argument. No body is better than anybody else.
> 
> ...


To be honest, i see games like that in flash game form all the time...nope not too violent for me  it is all based on your preference i guess >,> then again, it's just a video game.


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

But the problem is that people don't see it as just a video game. They think it is okay to do this in real life as well.


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

elvenleader3 said:


> But the problem is that people don't see it as just a video game. They think it is okay to do this in real life as well.


Then that is their problem, not the game itself. Let's say.... you have bad handwriting, do you blame the pencil or yourself?


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

GoSuNi said:


> Then that is their problem, not the game itself. Let's say.... you have bad handwriting, do you blame the pencil or yourself?


Exactly. Some people are so quick to blame things or other people, not themselves.


Anyway, anyone know a release date?


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

elvenleader3 said:


> But the problem is that people don't see it as just a video game. They think it is okay to do this in real life as well.


Currently they are running an advertisement here for teenagers about underage drinking and the fatal road accidents and violence associated with it and the end line says.........._*" You can't come back like in your computer games, you just stay dead".*_

It looks like this game could be in a group that is to be released around Christmas Elven. They are saying end of the year.


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

Oh so it'll be like last year. November came and there was Assassin's Creed 2,Left 4 Dead 2 and Modern Warfare 2.


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## Zealex (Nov 30, 2008)

Releasing games right before the holidays is a great marketing move. 

Well, I guess you really can't blame the game on why people do violent actions. But, people can learn violent things from video games. There are some violent ways to kill people in certain games, and people realize they can do the same.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Back a year or two ago Christmas sales meant something in the local shops. Most guys in the know now buy online from the cheapest price in a country they select from the offerings.


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

Zealex said:


> Releasing games right before the holidays is a great marketing move.
> 
> Well, I guess you really can't blame the game on why people do violent actions. But, people can learn violent things from video games. There are some violent ways to kill people in certain games, and people realize they can do the same.


How is that any different from books, magazines, movies, and etc?


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## Zealex (Nov 30, 2008)

Never said it was any different.One can learn from videos game how to do violent things, as well as movies, books, etc. 

Though, personally I find games providing more violent information the any other form of entertainment, next would be movies. That is my personal opinion. I am not saying EVERYONE will use the 'knowledge' they picked up from video games to kill people, but certain people who are sick will.


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

Zealex said:


> Never said it was any different. Videos game can teach one how to do violent things, as well as movies, books, etc.
> 
> Though, personally I find games teach more violence the any other form of entertainment, next would be movies. That is my personal opinion. I am not saying EVERYONE will use the 'knowledge' they picked up from video games to kill people, but certain people who are sick will.


I don't know about "teaching" unless the games, movies, books, and so on does that for its purpose. Anyway, Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood doesn't have that much blood and I don't expect much from it either.


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## Zealex (Nov 30, 2008)

I was actually rereading my post and decided to reword it, teach was a bad word to use .

I am not saying games were designed to teach this, I am just saying. One person may use the information they find from games, helpful in their murder rampage in the world of reality.

Anyways...

For the people who watched my video, is anyone finding that song in the trailer to be extremely catchy and addicting? It has been playing over and over again in my head.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Zealex:_One person may use the information they find from games, helpful in their murder rampage in the world of reality.
_
That is exactly right. One person might, and one person is still one too many if it's a massacre. There have been a lot of these lately. One in England last week in fact. Who knows what influenced them. 

In regard to Games, movies or books being the greatest source of influence to possible adverse reactions, gaming leads the way as they [games] are so sophisticated now that they are a movie in themselves and the gamer is now more and more one of the actors.
In short they are an interactive movie.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Well of course its an interactive movie. We all focus on the one bad apple in this world when there are millions of well adjusted individuals who play games and have no problems. The numbers speak for themselves if you want to know who is really affected and who isn't. I find that the media is pretty dumb when all it focus is the negative all the time. It needs balance.


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## Lord Sirian (Jan 14, 2007)

I don't think any game can be too violent, really. At the end of the day it's just a game and the only people going on about them causing real-life violence are panic merchants and people who've never actually played a game in their life. *Cough* Atkinson *cough*


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## wizard. (Jan 23, 2010)

Agreed Lord Sirian. If people take it too far, it's their issue and most likely when you get right down to it, not the game's fault...people who take it so seriously probably have mental illnesses, in which case, should they be PLAYING the game at all?


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

That's it Tyran, why didn't anyone else think of that?
The M rating stands for 'MENTAL ILLNESS". These games are unsuitable for the mentally ill.
Well done!


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

Heat Sink said:


> That's it Tyran, why didn't anyone else think of that?
> The M rating stands for 'MENTAL ILLNESS". These games are unsuitable for the mentally ill.
> Well done!


What he meant is that people with mental illnesses shouldn't be playing violent video games since it may affect them. TyrantheTerror did not say anything about the rating system.


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## wizard. (Jan 23, 2010)

Haha Thank you Heat Sink! Yes, people with mental illnesses should definitely not be playing these games because, the crap the games/game developers receive because of it damages companies and makes crazy soccer moms even more crazy about their little bratty balls of sunshine playing Halo.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Are you referring to everyone with mental illnesses? What about if they are stable with with medication? I would rather base judgment on an individual basis with an emphasis on me not judging that person. Although we all cry out for blood sometimes I doubt that any of us has the right ot dictate other people's lives that don't concern ours.

I do know some people with mental illnesses and most are just harmless.


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## wizard. (Jan 23, 2010)

True, certain mentally ill people shouldn't be playing the games...such as people who have trouble processing surroundings, they could take Grand Theft Auto IV as an 'OK' thing to do.


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

So you are saying people who are depressed shouldn't game, or people who are a bit forgetful...

You cannot really class all mentally ill people as unable to play games...


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## wizard. (Jan 23, 2010)

I am just saying how dangerous it is...and that media should portray the FACTS about the mentally ill people who are committing the crimes based on the video games because not very often is it a sane person doing this, but the games are effected just the same.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Tyran is right on with this and now the gaming industry must act.

Legislation will be proposed shortly in all states of the US, "that staff must ask all customers when they come to the sales counter to buy a game, if they have any history of mental illness. This is really similar to giving proof of age to buy liquor or cigarettes.
Britain and Australia will likely follow this lead.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Asking if you've had personal health problems to buy a piece of software because they don't want you to try and hold them responsible...

*ABSOLUTE RUBBISH and a complete infringement on my freedom of choice!*


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

McNinja, just remember that I'm from Oz. Others on here have found that out mate.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't care if you are from OZ, the idea that to buy an innocuous piece of software will somehow turn everybody violent is ridiculous. Supporting that idea without a gigantic study is just not a smart move. Taking too many steps to prevent something that could have no relation at all to gaming. 

This not about Australia its about your views and my disagreement with them.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

You have a poor attitude for a mentor Ninja. I suggest a crash course in applied psychology to be able to relate to others without appearing bad tempered and argumentitive.

Encarta definition of MENTOR

1. Experienced adviser and supporter: somebody, usually older and more experienced, who advises and guides a younger, less experienced person

2. Trainer: a senior or experienced person in a company or organization who gives guidance and training to a junior colleague.

Be mentor to somebody: to act as a mentor to somebody, especially a junior colleague


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

Heat Sink said:


> Legislation will be proposed shortly in all states of the US, "that staff must ask all customers when they come to the sales counter to buy a game, if they have any history of mental illness.


Sorry for the late reply for this, but wouldn't you be able to lie about not having a mental illness just like people do with fake IDs?


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## wizard. (Jan 23, 2010)

Heat Sink, McNinja is my mentor currently and is actually a very good one, as i believe the objective was for me to learn and i learned quite a bit.


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## Indoril Nerevar (Jan 7, 2006)

Heat Sink said:


> I keep forgetting that everyone on here isn't an Aussie. Down here everything is a joke.
> ...
> McNinja, just remember that I'm from Oz.


Heat Sink, I'm from Australia too, and I'm sorry, but not everything is a joke. I don't know anybody who actually feels that way either. Regardless, though, your jokes are obviously not having the effect you're aiming for, so it would be wise to cease making them. All they're doing is confusing people.

Now, let's all get back to having a friendly discussion, yeah?

While I do feel that games _can_ be too violent, I don't feel that this is an issue, because that's what we have a rating system for. The rating system should slot the game into the appropriate age group, and that should be that. If the game is too violent for public use, it should not be rated (and therefore not be allowed in that country). This is exactly what happened with Left 4 Dead 2, except the difference with that was that our government was too backward to have an R18+ rating (which would have been perfect for the game).

Society has been littered with murderers and other criminals since the beginning of the human race. Computer games only came into general use in the last 20 years or so, and "violent" games only in the last 10 or so. Have murder rates gone up in this time? How many murderers or other criminals can have their crimes actually tied to computer games? And what would that number be as a percentage of the people worldwide who play computer games? I don't know those answers, so a study would probably be called for, however I'm going to bet that the percentage of "affected" gamers (ones who commit crimes as a result of playing computer games) would be incredibly tiny.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

elvenleader3 said:


> Sorry for the late reply for this, but wouldn't you be able to lie about not having a mental illness just like people do with fake IDs?


Yes of course Elven, you can't screen them all. Some would be easy to judge and some more difficult. Junior counter staff would have to receive training also to sum up a guy that walks in naked with a bow and arrow for instance.
The shop could be in Port Morseby or somewhere.
I'd probably avoid giving your lunar address too if the legislation requires that.


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## wizard. (Jan 23, 2010)

All i have to say is Trololololololol in response to this entire thread...seriously


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

I've had fun with this thread Tyran. Met some good guys on here too.


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## Special2God (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm not picking sides...

Seriously...



> Abstract: Kids have a way of getting hold of M rated games, and
> although few of those kids are effected by those games, I think some of the anger, abuse, and other problems in today's society are indirectly effected by violent TV, movies, video games, violent peers, etc...
> Please notice I said effected not caused; effected.
> Violence in media, is not the root, but maybe it is a "factor" in the
> modern "peaceful" world's violence issues.


An experience from my life:
A guy I knew a while back, in his teens, started playing Battlefield 2. 
After a few days of playing, his younger sisters, who had been watching him, asked if they could play. 
He let them play because they would be "rather unhappy" if he didn't. (BF2 is rated T) 
He let them play for a while, but between the violence and online interaction, 
he eventually stopped playing, partly so his sisters would stop, which they did, 
and partly because he felt it was effecting all of them negatively. 
Later he thought about getting Halo:CE (which is rated M), but decided against it, because, even though he could get the game, he knew his sisters would want to play and knew that it would be hard to stop them from playing.

(P.S. Your all going to be like "that's totally made up!!!" 
I think?.. 
But no, it's real... 
Just something to think about.)


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

It's the parent's job to make sure what their kids can and can't play.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

It needs to be said what the relationship is between the US Military and the computer game industry. Computer games are used by the military to prepare for war.
They are not used by the Bible Society to further the Word.
Read the article below from the University of Nottingham.

*Military computer games are war related and are helping train soldiers to kill.*

*Military computer games and the new American militarism: what computer games teach us about war
Thomson, Matthew Ian Malcolm (2009) Military computer games and the new American militarism: what computer games teach us about war. PhD thesis, University of Nottingham.

Military computer games continue to evoke a uniquely contradictory public, intellectual, and critical response. Whilst denigrated as child’s play, they are played by millions of adults; whilst dismissed as simplistic, they are used in education, therapy, and military training; and whilst classed as meaningless, they arouse fears over media effects and the propagandist influence of their representations of combat. They remain the object of intense suspicion, and as part of a new and growing mass medium, they are blamed for everything from obesity to falling literacy standards, and from murder to Abu Ghraib. Much of the suspicion surrounding military computer games has been caused by the development of the military-entertainment complex - the relationship between the computer game industry and the U.S. military which has seen the production of dual-use games, co-produced by the military and the computer game industry and released for both military training and commercial sale. This relationship has placed military computer games at the centre of an intensely politicized debate in which they have become characterized as a mass medium which functions under the control of the military and political establishment and which promotes the militaristic ideals of the neoconservative Bush administration. This thesis serves as a fundamental reevaluation of such preconceptions and prejudices, and in particular, a complete reevaluation of the understanding of the relationship between computer games and American militarism. Its analysis focuses on three main areas: firstly, the content of military computer games; secondly, the determinants which affect the production and representation of war in computer games; and thirdly, the contribution of the representation of war in computer games to the misunderstandings and misconceptions concerning warfare which, in turn, have supported American militaristic beliefs.
*


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## Lord Sirian (Jan 14, 2007)

Heat Sink said:


> *Military computer games are war related and are helping train soldiers to kill.*


If we're talking about the US military here then there would seem to be little evidence that games teach soldiers how to kill better/faster/quicker/more efficiently/whatever. In spite of being one of the largest military forces in the world, the US military (and army in particular) would have to class as one of the poorest. On that evidence, it would seem that computer games don't really do much for a military unit at all.

This part was genuinely funny though. :grin:



> *...they are blamed for everything from obesity to falling literacy standards, and from murder to Abu Ghraib.*


Personally, I do not believe that pointing and clicking with a mouse, and tapping away on a keyboard can have an effect on anyone to the extent that they go out and murder/steal etc. Most computer games are so far removed from real life that making that connection seems ludicrous.


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

I guess bunnyhopping 100 miles per hour like a jackrabbit and running and shooting with 100% accuracy is a simulation? Not to mention jumping like you're on the moon.



> the US military (and army in particular) would have to class as one of the poorest


I find that offensive, first of all, my brother's childhood friend is in the military in Afghanistan. Unless you've been there, you wouldn't talk out of your rear.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Go ahead you can question my personality all you want heatsink and my attitude but as this is a general discussion I have my view of where you believe that people should get a background check in the psychological behavior. You would seem to thing that to get games you need a full police and mental capabilities background check. That is far too much for me and I feel is completely unnecessary.



> Originally Posted by Heat Sink
> Military computer games are war related and are helping train soldiers to kill.


There are a couple things that make this completely false.
-The human brain can recognize abstract things. In game avatars are felt as fake.
-War involves the desperation to stay alive in a firefight. You can't get the training for that in a game.
-When they train you they need to break you. You do not get broken from sitting on a chair comfortably.

I'm sure the list goes on. 

I've got my moments with my temper but I never went close to too far with you. I will not apologize for that statement above.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

It's getting very aggressive in here. Maybe you should stop playing Modern Warfare 2 and go back to Wii Sports. Play nicely, children. :laugh:


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Ninja quote: _I have my view of where you believe that people should get a background check in the psychological behavior. You would seem to thing that to get games you need a full police and mental capabilities background check. That is far too much for me and I feel is completely unnecessary._

Ninja, I actually think that you believe that all the stuff I have been saying about mad people being denied games through legislation isn't just jokes.
Most of the guys on here have been 'sitting on their cards' knowing that it was all just fun.
I tried to tell you that I'm from Oz and you didn't get that hint either.

If you think that you could get anywhere near the approval to impose on anyone's privacy these days and ask if they are mad in Australia, the US or socialist Europe and the UK then you are dreaming.
Of course it's a joke. 

And Sirian, the US Military makes their own computer games that are available to the general public. In those games people get shot. They are just as much a training method as firing a rifle at the range.
The end result of firearms is to kill people and they help prepare soldiers to go out and do the real thing.

If this is the case and that soldiers _are_ influenced by purpose made games, then it is easy to extend that to an angry, imbalanced, kid with a knife who hates the world, crosses the line and kills someone.

.


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

> And Sirian, the US Military makes their own computer games that are available to the general public. In those games people get shot. They are just as much a training method as firing a rifle at the range.
> The end result of firearms is to kill people and they help prepare soldiers to go out and do the real thing.
> 
> If this is the case and that soldiers are influenced by purpose made games, then it is easy to extend that to an angry, imbalanced, kid with a knife who hates the world, crosses the line and kills someone.


Ever been in the military? Why don't you try it out and compare it to video games for recruitment of soldiers? I will tell you that there is a big difference. Video game simulations for recruitment of soldiers does not prepare them. A keyboard and a mouse does not equate to shooting a real gun. Killing an AI is not the same as killing a real person. Get that through your head. Also, simulations are not the same as war. When you are in a battle, you will think about your life. Is that the same as a simulation?

You don't know how the _"angry, imbalanced kid with a knife who hates the world"_ thinks. It's actually very complex, so that is debatable. But I highly doubt that a game could do that.

If you still believe games can influence people to kill, might as well ban books, magazines, movies, etc.

For example, there is a magazine about cars. But hey, since cars can run over people, lets restrict them! A bit paranoid I would say.


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

koala said:


> It's getting very aggressive in here. Maybe you should stop playing Modern Warfare 2 and go back to Wii Sports. Play nicely, children. :laugh:


Your right it is. Time for me to go play some Wii Tennis!


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Yes I have been in the military, it was before military computer games but I had a rifle and I used it.
Does that count?


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

Tell me if that is similar. If you think so, I guess a mouse is similar to a trigger on a gun. Amazing logic.


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## wizard. (Jan 23, 2010)

If using a gun in a video game is the same as the outside, i should be flippin Jack Bauer...


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Ohh Oz... prison?


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

Ever seen those movies where guys in the military run at bags of straw with rifle and bayonet to learn how to bayonet people?
Do you think that a bag of straw is the same as a human body?
I didn't think that was similar but that is how we trained.

Now give it a rest, you are both becoming boring.


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

I think using real guns and bayonets against fake people is a better training then using virtual guns and bayonets against virtual people who happen to respawn.


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## Heat Sink (Jan 26, 2010)

I'll try and let the US military know your thoughts as they have spent a hell of a lot of money on simulation training including gunnery practice using elaborate flight simulators to alleviate the use of expensive jet fuel..


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

Yeah but they use elaborate flight simulators, not video games.


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## Lord Sirian (Jan 14, 2007)

Heat Sink said:


> Ever seen those movies where guys in the military run at bags of straw with rifle and bayonet to learn how to bayonet people?
> Do you think that a bag of straw is the same as a human body?
> I didn't think that was similar but that is how we trained.


Umm, just to illustrate, recently, in a game of UT3, I jumped off a three story building holding a sniper rifle, on my way down, I headshotted someone from a very long way away, quickly spun 180 degrees and headshotted another person, turned back around, switched weapons and started spraying with dual pistols. Landed (after falling three stories), and kept on running like I'd just stepped over a rock.

I don't believe I've ever seen someone in the military attempt to do something similar.

All games, (even so-called "realistic" shooters) are so far removed from real life that arguing that they are the cause of a crime is an even more ridiculous concept than a Prime Minister with red hair. Basically it's like GoSuNi said. If you think games can influence people to that extent, then so can books and movies, and I don't think many people would support the banning of those now would they?


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## GoSuNi (Dec 5, 2008)

Heat Sink said:


> Ever seen those movies where guys in the military run at bags of straw with rifle and bayonet to learn how to bayonet people?
> Do you think that a bag of straw is the same as a human body?
> I didn't think that was similar but that is how we trained.
> 
> Now give it a rest, you are both becoming boring.


What a pathetic response, first of all, that isn't a simulation. It's a training, far different from video games. Oh wait, video games are made for entertainment. I suggest you stop playing Mass Effect 2 and idolizing it since it has violence as well. It has sex, guns, and deaths, hypocrite much? Yeah, that's what I thought. You are indeed a strange case. Some strange person thinks that he is above the rest of the world. I find that ignorant and self-centered. I've never met a person this annoying even though I've been into many arguments.

"I didn't think that was similar but that is how we trained."

Exactly

Now give it a rest, you are becoming boring.


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## rmartz20 (Nov 4, 2009)

It all comes down to what is real and what isn't. Yea video games can give people ideas for different violent and criminal activities. The difference is who knows it is right and who knows it is wrong. The people who don't know the difference have far bigger problems than if a video game will affect them or not. You might say a kid doesn't know whats real and what isn't, that is why they should not play the rated M type games and one reason why they are rated M in the first place.

One way for the military to train might be with simulations and video games. That is definately not the only way they train. If it was they would be terrible soldiers. They teach them how to survive and let them practice techniques they have taught for just two examples.


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## Indoril Nerevar (Jan 7, 2006)

Sorry guys, but this thread has gotten too far out of hand. In future, please try to discuss things without insulting each other. It's really just sad that this topic couldn't be discussed in a friendly manner.

Thread closed.


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