# liquid metal cooling ...



## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

possible :4-dontkno i think

k leme hear ur thoughts on this

mercury

the positive:
mercury is a liquid metal very high heat conductivity alot higher then ethyl glycol or coolant thats used in current water cooling systems

the negative:
toxic
corrodes other metals
semi expensive

the plan: transforming a water cooling system into a mercury cooling system

well it would be possible tod this whole project by using a plastic only setup with a plastic pump no metal parts plastic connectors etc ... until it comes to the radiator and the cooling blocks

here is another so called liquid metal: Galinstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

pros:
not toxic
doesnt corrode metails

negatives:
sticks to surfaces easier
surfaces need to be coated with gallium oxide so the metal doesnt stick
expensive

hence the second metal would be better too cool and technically could setup a whole passive system using this.

is mercury or this other metal magnetic ? 

just some ideas im throwing around the net :wave: 

another thought .... technically couldnt u add copper particles in tiny tiny nano sized particles to the coolant to increase cooling and heat conductivity ? im sure this might possible cause clogging but if they are small enough and wouldnt stick together it should work


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

it would work, but cooling mercury wouldn't be too fun. and i wouldn't want a lot of mercury flowing right next to my head


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

yeah the issue with the mercury is the corrosion it causes
i think well just forget about what i said haha


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

lol. and finding a pump that strong would be tough


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

well if mercury would have a slight magnetic property ... u could build a pump that ´doenst use any moving parts


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## carsey (Aug 19, 2006)

Fr4665 said:


> well if mercury would have a slight magnetic property ... u could build a pump that ´doenst use any moving parts


Is that possible???


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## emosun (Oct 4, 2006)

doesnt mercury expand and contract when heated and cooled? expect a overflow lol


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

u have another valid point haha. if you look at it this way ... u could then also build a pump that doesnt require nething but the mercury heating up lol


like i said it was just bogus floating around in my head


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## MunkyPhil (Apr 7, 2006)

Fr4665 said:


> well if mercury would have a slight magnetic property ... u could build a pump that ´doenst use any moving parts


Yes I think mercury would have a magnetic field due to the mass movement of electrons in the fluid. I would strongly advise against having a magnetic fluid flowing over your processor though - it is highly likely to interfere with the current flowing through the system because electricity and magnetism are inextricably linked and affect each other.

The pump is mostly irrelevant, magnetic shielding is simple to achieve with a careful choice of materials and design, but then this may affect the working lifetime of the pump.

I would forget about metal cooling, liquid nitrogen would be a safer bet and, at around -170 degrees C, is a lot more effective.


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

thx for that, i agree using mercury would be a pita to make use off in cooling a system.

using liquid nitrogen is the most effective way but its not very usuable for everyday use. i mean ok ill weld me some cooling pipes and insulate everything but thats just for temporary over clocking purpose.

thats true about the magnetics concerning the processorespecially if it circulates close to the harddrives.


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## MunkyPhil (Apr 7, 2006)

How about modifying a fridge or freezer to fit a computer? I've never seen that and it would work really well. You wouldn't need a case even, all as you would need is a chassis to mount inside the fridge for the components to attach to and a means of getting the wires out.


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

u have the issue of condensation ...

could be built with a 3 wall insualted casing fridge steel air styrofoam air styrofoam and then the motherboard etc.


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## Cellus (Aug 31, 2006)

Also note that mercury vapour is highly toxic and will cause damage to your internal organs and nervous system.

Occupational Safety and Health Administration - Health Hazards from Mercury Vapour

Do *not* use it.


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

yeah that was stated before but once it would be in a closed environtment it would be hot.


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## carsey (Aug 19, 2006)

Did you it is actually illegal to handle some parts of a fridge/freezer without qualifications. I read that Im a PC MODDING magazine.

Bit stupid really


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## blackduck30 (Sep 7, 2004)

Why not take the plunge and look at submersion, I read an article a while ago were they actually submerged a computer in a special oil from 3M ( I think power supply and hard drive were left out though, can not remember ) , the only thing they didn't address in my opinion was long term use were I think you would need an oil cooler of sorts. I know the military use submersion on some of there huge main frames and I think it is also a sealed system as there is a possibility of toxic fumes ( but only if you get to some stupid temps like 80 or 90C


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

blackduck30 said:


> Why not take the plunge and look at submersion, I read an article a while ago were they actually submerged a computer in a special oil from 3M ( I think power supply and hard drive were left out though, can not remember ) , the only thing they didn't address in my opinion was long term use were I think you would need an oil cooler of sorts. I know the military use submersion on some of there huge main frames and I think it is also a sealed system as there is a possibility of toxic fumes ( but only if you get to some stupid temps like 80 or 90C


what the pc modders use is mineral oil. a german guy actually built the first one of these and managed to circulate the oil with some small fans in there. 

the issue i see with this is i need an aquarium and it could get really really messy and im sure after using some freaking oil it gets well old and look at oil thats been sitting in a frying pan for too long ... thats how the oil will smell and look like :grin: 

the guy actually dissasembled the rig after a year of usage and put the parts in a dishwasher ... then he put em into a freaking oven to dry em out and it worked.


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## blackduck30 (Sep 7, 2004)

The proper stuff is called Flourinert, Flourinert comes in several different formulations, each with different properties.



> The main difference between the different types is the pour point and boiling point. For computer submersion the ideal type is FC-72, with a boiling point of 56C and a pour point of -90C. The thermal conductivity of this fluorinert measured at 25c is comparable to water (well, very slightly below) The specific heat is approx. 1/4 that of water.
> 
> You can buy this stuff by the barrel (5 gallons) for about $750US; which, while significant, might be worth it to some to get rid of condensation worries


, I have also read you can use transformer oil. I would love to get an acrilic case, seal it and fill the sucker up, a couple of cold cathodes and whala trickest looking system. Although you still have to address the cooling of the Flourinert :Thinkingo


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

blackduck30 said:


> Although you still have to address the cooling of the Flourinert :Thinkingo


the what ? lol. well u could use some type of acrylic aquarium ...  
but the computer would be stationary the whole time and i like lugging my stuff to lans and just around the house


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## twajetmech (Jul 1, 2004)

There is nothing on a refigerator that is illegal to handle, however to purchase R-12 refridgerant you do need to have a state or city certificate due to its harmaful effects on the environment......however, the newer fidge's do not use R-12, they use 134a, which you can buy at most automotive stores. If you can solve the condensation problem it would be an interesting project.


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## agentRed (Nov 7, 2006)

Depending on state law, you can get in trouble for rupturing the cooling system in a refridgerator or AC unit. This is because it releases an ozone depleter called Freon. I know that in my state you can get in a whole lot of trouble and huge fines. 

When I was still in school, the people who were replacing the AC unit managed to drop the unit off the crane where it then proceeded to fall somewhere around 25 and then crash into the parkinglot near the school and explode. I was sitting down to lunch when I heard and felt the unit hitting the ground right next to the school. The shockwave broke several nearby windows and made a crater in the asphalt. I know that the people who were installing the unit got a huge fine JUST for causing the release of freon, and they also lost their job and had insurance issues.


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## -d- (Jun 18, 2006)

If it's legal (and even if its not ) let us know the results/ plans !


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

when i get some freetime ill do some testing


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## BeiGaLeh (Aug 12, 2006)

Mercury is also very heavy... And you can't build a machine that doesn't stop moving.. there's a latin name for this rule.. I don't know it... you can use the expanding thing to make it move though..


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## crazijoe (Oct 19, 2004)

Something you might want to look into would be a peltier cooler.

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/peltier.htm

I remember using these things a while back in a PIII 866MHz.


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

nice find. whats interesting that it has similar cooling properties to the phase change methods used for cooling but seems simpler to apply and as it stated it is cheaper. 

but i wonder where to find one of those that fits current sockets ... i guess customizing is the only way togo

http://www.conrad.de/script/hightech_peltier_elemente-36.sap

sry german again but for that price u might aswell order one and test it out ill do some more research.

edit: might order one of these and a watercooling system for xmas and throw em on my 940 D i assume i can reach clock speeds of 4ghz ?

EDIT2: from what im reading i should be achiving around 4.5ghz with normal watercooling


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## twajetmech (Jul 1, 2004)

Peltier's are not hard to find...crazypc has them to fit most current socket types


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## dedseksy (Nov 28, 2006)

My friend and I have been talking about making a computer in a mini fridge for about two years now. We instantly agreed that condensation would be the main complication. Don't know how you could keep the fridge dry.


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

danger den has peltier


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

dedseksy said:


> My friend and I have been talking about making a computer in a mini fridge for about two years now. We instantly agreed that condensation would be the main complication. Don't know how you could keep the fridge dry.


finding some compound similiar in properties like latex but still conducts heat .... encase all the parts with this and u got ur minifridge cooling


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## Ralck (Dec 10, 2004)

Fr4665 said:


> like i said it was just bogus floating around in my head


Hey, that's how all of the best inventions and breakthroughs start out! I think the idea sounds really interesting, and if you ever do experiments I'd love to hear your results. As for practical purposes I think the peltier cooler might be your best shot. I've actually been looking into them for myself and they offer strong cooling.


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

Ralck said:


> Hey, that's how all of the best inventions and breakthroughs start out! I think the idea sounds really interesting, and if you ever do experiments I'd love to hear your results. As for practical purposes I think the peltier cooler might be your best shot. I've actually been looking into them for myself and they offer strong cooling.


i think the peltier cooling solutions are a great shot but there again is the issue of possible condensation or total failure wich will overheat the cpu.

hopefully when i have some time on the weekends and go back to school i will get to work on milling and welding some copper tubing for a mercury filled cooling laborinth. also i will do some tests as how well mercury mixes with water or coolant and if mercury will actually react to any time of magnetic influence.


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## Twinked (Dec 18, 2006)

Fridge cooling:

If you cant dry out the fridge.. could you put the computer into a sealed container and dry that smaller area out instead?


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

Twinked said:


> Fridge cooling:
> 
> If you cant dry out the fridge.. could you put the computer into a sealed container and dry that smaller area out instead?


if you could encase your computer parts water tightly wich still transfers heat this would be possible but otherwise condensation is the evil doer in that case


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## swarner (Aug 2, 2005)

About fridge cooling!

A friend of mine has already done it! and it worked.

this friend of mine is an old RAF technician and makes the strangest things out of the strangest things.

he is now an computer repair man and wind instrument maker!!
he made four!! refriderated comps. and sold them to an advertising firm in Dublin,Ireland.

he did this a good few years ago and achieved nearly 5GHz with the old model pentium 4's!

I could find out more about how he did it if anyone wants to know?


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## carsey (Aug 19, 2006)

Of course we want know. A little extra knowledge doesnt hurt. lol :smile:


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## Scream (Nov 29, 2006)

Why couldn't you.. get a fridge that fit perfectly, cut out the back, slide your generic case inside, so that the cords and plugs are outside .

And yes, I'm very interested in how he actually did it.


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## carsey (Aug 19, 2006)

The condensation will form water which will short the circuits. Thats why you just cant slam a PC in the fridge.


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

if the issue of condensation wouldnt exist cooling would be alot easier. but it doesn so ud have to insulate ur stuff nicely. the issue with that is, to get it perfect ud have to vacume enacse the whole motherboard with ram vga and cpu in a plastic wich actually transfers heat.


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## Nitrus (Dec 27, 2006)

I dunno about liquid mecury, but ive seen a cooling system with liquid nitrogen, and they managed to overclock the CPU to 5.2Ghz.


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## carsey (Aug 19, 2006)

Want to see their video of it?


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## Nitrus (Dec 27, 2006)

Here it is. Not your regular cooling system by any means.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4261827163265447245&q=5ghz+project


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## carsey (Aug 19, 2006)

Id love them to go into business. Maybe if someone invented a closed liquid nitrogen system for the stand up towers. The inventors would make a bombshell. :smile:


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## Nitrus (Dec 27, 2006)

Indeed they would, imagine playing BF2 on a 5.2Ghz CPU, and LN cooled Video card and a watercooled chipset.

It would truly be amazing. And ergo expensive.


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## carsey (Aug 19, 2006)

forget water cooling. Just use the nitrogen. :smile: I bet it could go alot higher than 5.2Ghz if they wanted.


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## Ralck (Dec 10, 2004)

Actually I read something a while ago that somebody got one up to 7GHz. However... darned if I can find that article now...


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## milehile (Feb 17, 2006)

I remember seeing an episode of TechTV on liquid-submersion cooling where the liquid in question came in a 1 gallon jug that cost $50 and the way they had it set up was having 2 tanks. The main tank holding the MB, and a second tank holding a large copper heatsink. The way they did it was, having 2 tubes connecting both tanks and at the entrance of each tube was a fan. And the flow of the liquid was a constant stream.

It actually looked quite amazing. The bad thing about it; the liquid evaporates rapidly, making the purchase of a couple gallons of the liquid something like once every couple weeks. Solution to that; sealed tight.


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

the new conroe core 2 duo e4300 is up to 3.38 ghz on air cooling i believe ... a maximum of 3.6 could be achieved on water.

also remember u cant overclock a processor infititely because u have good cooling. at somepoint the FSB and multiplier maxes out


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## Ralck (Dec 10, 2004)

http://news.softpedia.com/news/7GHz-Pentium-6202.shtml

It's not the greatest article, but it shows it was done (mainly because of such high multipliers possible on the P4 line). Unfortunately, the original link seems to be dead, so you can't actually see the pictures of CPU-Z and such.


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

too bad on the 4300 the multipliers are locked if they werent, u could prolly achive speeds in the close to 7 ghz or so ... with a 9x400 u can reach a whooping 3.6 imagine that with an even higher multiplier  like a 16x400 would achieve somewhere around 7ghz ^^


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