# What engine should be in this Ariens mower?



## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Howdy folks, this time I'm trying to find out what Tecumseh engine should be fitted to a *ARIENS RM828e *ride on mower. The original engine has gone walkabout....along with the fuel tank, solenoid, battery, transmisssion pulley and air cleaner assembly.

Does anyone have any info on this machine? 

The numbers are;

Model *# 927039 *

Serial *# 001126*

Don't know the age either. :4-dontkno

Hope you can help.

Kindest regards,

Texas rose. :wave:


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

This should be a 8 HP rear engine rider, 28inch deck, electric start.

http://partsradar53.arinet.com/scri...oginID=ariensc&loginpwd=consumer&partner=ARNC

You will need to enter *RM828e* in the box.

Really need the number off the engine. It should be on the "cover" of the flywheel side. How ever it could be hidden by the gas tank or air cleaner.

It should be TVXL 195-150226. Also could use the serial number as that should show the age.

BG


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Basementgeek said:


> This should be a 8 HP rear engine rider, 28inch deck, electric start.
> 
> http://partsradar53.arinet.com/scri...oginID=ariensc&loginpwd=consumer&partner=ARNC
> 
> ...


Thank you basementgeek for your reply, unfortunately the engine is missing - I don't do simple enquiries do I? 

But I roughly measured the cutting blade at 28"...it still bides in the present owners yard....as I'm still negotiating the purchase.

All IDs will be sketchy until I have it in my grasp...who knows I might even get out-bid?

T r


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Great basementgeek, that sure was immensley helpfull re, the mower, just got to wait and see if I can win he darn thingray:

You haven't come across an operators manual by any chance? :4-dontkno

Kindest regards,

Texas rose. :wave:


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

This do it for an owners manual:

http://apache.ariens.com/cgibin/ctrg0005?SESSIONID=2sfuv545bofr0h55o0ege5m3&site=arienss

Enter your model number and serial number, check what language you want.

This thing, who is selling it and how much are they asking ? Replacement engines can run several hundred dollars.

BG


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Hello Texas again - are you setting up an outdoor equipment yard??? 1st it was a chainsaw rebuild - now you are on to ride ons - next it will be open cut mining equipment!!:laugh:

I took the lead from my colleague BG, and here is the link to owners manuals - BUT you will need both the model number and the serial number of the mower.

http://apache.ariens.com/cgibin/ctrg0005?sessionID=abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz&site=arienss

Here is a manual I downloaded for one of the Ariens 8hp with a Tec engine

http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/02737400D.pdf

But there are others, another with a Tec and 2 more with 8hp B&S engines - so my guess is that you could likely install either a Tec or B&S on your machine (when the recalcitrant owner finally sells it to you :sigh

Here is the link to all the 8hp Aeriens owners manuals

http://partsradar53.arinet.com/scri...oginID=ariensc&loginpwd=consumer&partner=ARNC

These are the Model numbers and serial numbers for all 4 8hp units - so you can take your pick on which unit you have (or are looking to buy)
927031-000101 RM828E, 8hp Tec., Electric, 28" Deck 
927039-000101 RM828E, 8hp Tec., Electric, 28" Deck 
927045-000101 RM828E, 8hp B&S, Electric, 28" Deck 
927045-000600 RM828E, 8hp B&S, Electric, 28" Deck 

The model numbers are the 9XXXXX numbers and the serial numbers are 000XXX. Just enter them into the boxes on the Atiel site and you can download the owners manuals

BG is absolutely right - a new engine will run to several hundred $s, so if it were me I would look very carefully that the rest of the mower isn't too much of a wreck. If it's OK, then you can likely chose what engine (either Tec, B&S or Kawasaki) you want to fit (my guess is that either a Tec or B&S will fit OK). The real problem with transplants is connecting up all the linkages and all the little tiny proprietary parts that are needed to hook up throttle, choke etc links and if they are missing, chasing after these is a total PiA  - but if worse comes to worse, often they can be either chased up from suppliers or if you are handy, just made up.

Before you buy a new engine - make sure you have a really good idea of the orientation and location of fuel tanks, exhaust etc. Often these can be relocated for a particular OEM and they are a real PiA to move:sigh:

Hope this helps & let us all know how you get on


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Hello Basementgeek and Mr Chooks.

A I said earlier I don't do things by halves...or as my wife often states 'your a glutton for punishment' .... I guess she's right, she usually is.

That is exactly the kind of manual I'm looking for Mr B, thank you so much for tracking it down.

The mower in question is in very sound mechanical condition - minus the engine of course - and would warrant saving from the scrap mans torch, plus its got a grass collection system. If I can't source a cheap replacement Tecumseh, I will then go to plan 'B'

Now here's me cunning plan 'B'; 
I have a Murray mower with a 8hp B&S electric start engine. The problem with the Murray is one of obtaining spares/info, because of its age. So If I get the Ariens I'm going to transfer the B&S to it ( can't be that difficult...can it?) the engine control cables are still present on the Ariens, so it may be that I can re-use them - he says tongue in cheek. One difficulty will be the original tecumseh engine electric safety cable connections, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. The difference twixt the two machines is like chalk and cheese. The Murray did the job OK and plodded along like an old plough horse, the trouble was being able to maintain it, so the Murray/plough horse is off to the knackers yard.
The Ariens on the other hand is like a space shuttle by comparrison, but I've still got 3 days to wait.

I just hope it doesn't all end in tears .... *watch this space*.:grin:

So long guys and thank you for your inputs thus far.

Texas rose :wave:


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave:Texas
OK - as you have an engine for the transplant - this one should be easy (no anaesthetic!!), as you can see what has to go where and given Ariens fitted both B&S and Tec engines - there should be heaps of space in the engine bay for the B&S

With a little luck, the base plate bolt arrangements will be the same for the missing engine as that on your Murray - so your plan B should work. More importantly, you will still have all the throttle / choke etc connections on your B&S so that problem should be simple to solve.

The electrics should be almost identical - you just might need to change the "plugs" on the end of the leads to convert the B&S to Tec/ Ariens wiring harness arrangements - but again - not a big deal - just make sure you don't cause an inadvertent short but a multimeter / test lamp and battery is usually enough to make sure which wire goes where - after all it's only a mower - not a freaking power station!!:grin:

Good luck with it all and let us all know how you get on.


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Well I got the Ariens mower, but I'm having trouble sourcing the pulley drive from the engine (for my replacement B&S).

I wonder if I am describing the pulley wrongly? :4-thatsba

Are they described as *'PTO' *pullies. :4-dontkno

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Hi Texas

PTO = Power Take Off = pulley that fits the engine output shaft

Is the pulley you need a single grove pulley? or does it have multiple grooves. 

I only ask, as if it's a single groove, you might be able to re-use the existing pulley on your B&S engine (I know - tight wad again!!:sigh as both the original Tec and your B&S will have very similar engine speed / torque curves - hence the pulleys will have had very similar diameters. - Just a thought from a congenital tight wad.


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Well PTO means power take off.I guess they could be called that. A velt belt pulley is a pulley. Just get the right right size, or a close as you can.

A different size will affect the belt size and that will affect your travel speeds as well as the speed of the blades.

BG


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Howdy folks, I've never seen the original pulley, but I guess that it must be a twin groove as there are 2 belts to drive...1 from the engine to the mower drive and 1 to drive the blades. If anyone has a pulley on their Ariens mower with a B&S engine I would be so gratefull for a picture and the sizes of the pulleys plus the overall length of the pulley carrier/hub. :grin:

Thanks folks.


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Texas

Go to the web site below, put in the number 927045-000XXX into the box and the parts list, parts diagram and order form will pop up.

Looks like you will need a 2 groove pulley - so unless your old B&S pulley is double grove - you will need to order a newie (bummer - there goes my "tight wad idea of the day" :sigh

Here is the link to the parts manual - as per my January 19 post (if this link wont work properly - try the one in my Jan 19 post)

http://partsradar53.arinet.com/scri...oginID=ariensc&loginpwd=consumer&partner=ARNC

927045-000101 RM828E for 8hp B&S, Electric, 28" Deck 
927045-000600 RM828E for 8hp B&S, Electric, 28" Deck 

I would guess that the pulleys for both the 000101 & 000600 series will be the same (or at least very very similar diameters as these engines will have almost identical power / speed / torque curves)


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Well, I've tried the B&S in the Ariens...guess what? the holes don't line up, but worse the B&S/Murray pulleys don't comply either.

The length of the assembly is Ok, it's just that the diameter of the blade drive pulley should be about 70-75 + mm I guess. The engine to gearbox drive pulley is too high up on the hub, and should be closer to the blade pulley to enable it to clear the gear selector crosshaft, also it should be a considerably larger diameter as there is too much excessive slack in the original belt for the jockey wheel/pulley to take up. I guess this pulley should be around the 90+ mm mark.

Mr Chooks, that site you sent me was great...up to a point, I identified the pulley hub, but when I went into it further it told me to go to my Ariens supplier. Where would I find one of those in the UK I ask you? :4-dontkno

My next plan would be to buy a few pulleys off ebay and 'cut and shunt' the pulleys/carriers/hub assembley to cobble up a servicable unit, unless I can get one of the original pulley drives.

It could be cheaper if I bought an Ariens mower of ebay and ploated it for the bits. 

Incidentally, the grass bagger wont fit onto the Ariens with the B&S motor in place - the B&S is physically bigger in the rear end - but modifying that would be a doddle compared to sourcing the pulleys/hub assembley...the're probably lying in numerous junk yards in the USA but not here in the UK. :4-dontkno

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Hi Texas again

I am not surprised the Murray pulley isn't suitable - that you would need an Ariens OEM engine pulley is almost a given when you tackle these kinds of transplants.:sigh:

Here is a link to Ariens in Europe & UK

http://www.ariens.com/DealerLocator/default.aspx - 

If you follow thru the link - you get to a "Contact Us" page - try telling Ariens UK what you are looking for and they should be able to put you in contact with a "relatively" local dealer - after all someone must distribute Ariens mowers in the UK - your one certainly didn't get to Scotland all by itself!!:laugh:

Try this link and see if you can find a UK based dealer and see how much the correct pulley is to buy - my guess is that it will be cheaper / easier to source the drive pulley as a new part than it would be to have someone make one up. But you never know - you might get lucky ans stumble on a dealer who has a few "wrecks" and maybe able to source a used one.

The other issue you will need to watch is the shaft bore diameter on the OEM drive pulley compared with the output shaft diameter on your B&S:4-dontkno. If the OEM pulley bore is smaller, then you will need a local machine shop to bore it out to match your B&S shaft and to remake the key-way - but this shouldn't be a big deal - any 1/2 decent machine / work shop should be able to do this for you.

That the 2 engine face plate bolt holes layout don't line up is a real PiA  and frankly I am a little surprised - as often the face plate configurations are common. Anyway - here is what I do when confronted with that problem.
1/ Put your B&S upside down on a bench on a load or rag / or something softish. (Make sure your B&S has been empties of oil 1st as if you don't it might start leaking / flowing into / out of places you don't want.)
2/ Get a sheet of stiff paper / light cardboard (an office folder works fine for this)
3/ In the middle of the sheet, as accurately as you can, cut a hole that in a tight fit around your B&S drive shaft then sticky tape the cardboard down to the outer edge of the engine face plate and mark a reference "Top" etc on the cardboard.
4/ Now - with a small ball peene hammer, gently tap the cardboard all around every engine mounting bolt hole on the face plate. The ball peene hammer will accurately cut out all these holes and you will end up with an exact template of you B&S face plate. Armed with this - you can layout where any additional holes have to be drilled onto the Ariens chassis to accept your B&S.


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave: Hi Texas again
> 
> I am not surprised the Murray pulley isn't suitable - that you would need an Ariens OEM engine pulley is almost a given when you tackle these kinds of transplants.:sigh:
> 
> ...


Hello Mr Chooks, I've nailed it down to part # 2701000 -going off that site you kindly gave me, the pulleys for the different engined mowers seem to have the same part number, but I've asked the parent company for their help, I'm hoping they will be able to tell me their distributors address in the Uk at least....so far I have drawn a blank in my search for Ariens UK!.

Thank you for your tip re, making a template, I find ball bearings handy too.
And don't forget the ever handy Kellogs corn flake carton.


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Hi Texas - Yes making contact with Ariens HO is a good idea - as they might be able to give you a back up dealer if you have trouble locating a local one, who could just mail the part to you. 

Whilst you are in contact with them - see if they would be prepared to give you the dimensions of the OEM pulley (bore diameter) and pulley/s diameters as well as hub dimensions. This data will allow you to decide what you will need to do to make it fit your B&S. Even better - a copy of the engineering drawing of the pulley would be great - but it is often a little difficult to get OEMs to give these out:sigh: but you never know - maybe you could give them a "tear jerking" story that you are desparate to get your Ariens going:sigh:

& Yes - no self respecting work shop should be without the obligatory Kellogg's Cornflakes box :laugh:


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave: Hi Texas - Yes making contact with Ariens HO is a good idea - as they might be able to give you a back up dealer if you have trouble locating a local one, who could just mail the part to you.
> 
> Whilst you are in contact with them - see if they would be prepared to give you the dimensions of the OEM pulley (bore diameter) and pulley/s diameters as well as hub dimensions. This data will allow you to decide what you will need to do to make it fit your B&S. Even better - a copy of the engineering drawing of the pulley would be great - but it is often a little difficult to get OEMs to give these out:sigh: but you never know - maybe you could give them a "tear jerking" story that you are desparate to get your Ariens going:sigh:
> 
> & Yes - no self respecting work shop should be without the obligatory Kellogg's Cornflakes box :laugh:


Thanks Mr Chooks for your continuing encouragement, good idea about the dimensions. As yet no one has replied to my enquiries...not a sausage!

I await some response with baited breath!

Bye for now:wave:


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Texas rose said:


> Thanks Mr Chooks for your continuing encouragement, good idea about the dimensions. As yet no one has replied to my enquiries...not a sausage!
> 
> I await some response with baited breath!
> 
> Bye for now:wave:


*UPDATE.*

Doh!! the engine does fit after all, I was trying to fit it as it was in the Murray, but after perusing the parts manual it appears to fit with the spark plug end towards the drivers back, all bolts locate :sigh:

Have located a pulley, but the one I have has a spot welded keyed sleeve inserted bringing the diameter down to 19+mm to fit the B&S shaft, the new one located has a bore size of 25mm, can I assume that the sleeve in mine would simply transfer over?

The new pulley is £70, which makes it just under the price I paid for the mower. :upset:

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Texas Da-Daaaaaaa!! I thought the engine would be an OK fit and was surprised when you said the face plate was out :smile::smile: So now it's just the pulley.

If you can get the used pulley cheap - any 1/2 decent machine shop will fix this for you. If someone has welded a bush into it - then just have the machine shop bore it out and remake the key way. See if you can find a small (owner operated) machine shop nearby and ask them what they would want to do this job for you (should be less than 1/2hour work for them) Else it will be a new pulley

At 70 pounds - you have just had your 1st lesson in OEM parts - they're are always expensive:sigh:


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Texas - I may have mis-read you earlier post. If your B&S has a 3/4" (near enough to 19+mm) shaft, then there is no reason the pulley you have won't simply slide on to your B&S at no additional cost at all - (Man, as a committed, card carrying _tight wad _- - I just love "no additional expense"!!!:laugh

I would do a temporary mount of the engine into your Ariens, install the pulley and give the engine a run - just make sure the pulley is running true and not wobbling - but if some one has made it up and used it in the past - then it should be fine.:smile:

A tip before you start. Get some fine-ish emery paper and thoroughy clean up the shaft on your B&S. Pay particular attention to the key way and its edges - there must not be a single burr or rough area on it. 

Likewise clean all and any muck / surface corrosion out of the inner bore & keyway in your pulley. 

Once all is cleaned up - coat the shaft, the key, the keyway and inner bore of the pulley with anti-seize grease (if you don't have this normal grease will do) so that the shaft and pulley don't jam / seize up whilst you are postioning the pulley on the shaft.

Once you have the engine mounted (and temporarily bolted down), you will have to get under the mower and align the engine drive pulley with the mower's driven pulleys. You do this by laying a piece of string across the faces of both the drive (engine) pulley and the driven pulley - the string should touch BOTH outer edges of both the drive AND driven pulley diameters - when it does, the pulleys are correctly alingned in that plane. If you don't do this you will end up cutting out the belt/s and or have endless trouble with belts dislodging.

It is because you have to do these adjustments on the drive pulley location on the B&S shaft that you want the pulley to be a firm but NOT tight sliding fit on your B&S shaft. That way you can just gently tap it up or down so it goes into the "just right " position

Once all is lined up and located you can lock the pulley in place with whatever locking screws are provided in the pulley.


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave: Texas - I may have mis-read you earlier post. If your B&S has a 3/4" (near enough to 19+mm) shaft, then there is no reason the pulley you have won't simply slide on to your B&S at no additional cost at all - (Man, as a committed, card carrying _tight wad _- - I just love "no additional expense"!!!:laugh
> 
> I would do a temporary mount of the engine into your Ariens, install the pulley and give the engine a run - just make sure the pulley is running true and not wobbling - but if some one has made it up and used it in the past - then it should be fine.:smile:
> 
> ...


Good morning Mr Chooks:wave:

Just to clarify the stage I am at:

My original Murray assembly is a pressed steel construction, the blade pulley (the one on the lower end of the shaft) is spot welded onto the shaft.

The Ariens people have told me the sizes of the 2 pulleys, which are = the transmission drive (the top one) is 140mm diameter, the blade drive (the bottom one) is 70mm diameter, but looking at the parts section it looks like the hub/pulley carrier could a cast metal construction.

I did say in my other post that the new pulley/hub assembly, at £70 was nearly what I paid for the mower, when in fact it is nearly _*twice *_what I paid for the machine (£40) 

The state of play at the moment is; I intend looking for 2 pressed steel pullies of the correct diameters with a 32mm centre hole (they can't cost £70 surely?), I will then spot weld them onto my Murray shaft in the 'aligned up' positions using the method you described. 

I bought this machine - which, by the way, is in first class order to look at, still got all the paint on the pedals, steps etc - as a 'project' over the Winter months....the way things are going I may be still working on it by the time Autumn comes along. 

And all this has to be done concealing any extraordinary costs from the purse keeper. 

As well as this project I am in the process of refurbishing my log trailer. So all in all I am very busy at this point in time...did I mention I am also overhauling the lights in my workshop? long overdue. 

So long for now.

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Texas

OK - now I understand. 

1st off - I suggest you just forget the Murray pulley - it was made for a totally different machine and is unlikely to be any help in this project - so you need to concentrate on getting a pair of pulleys that fit the B&S shaft and are a close approximation to the Ariens pulley diameters.

There should be sufficient shaft length on you B&S to accommodate 2 individual pulleys, simply placed on the shaft (face to face - rather than hub to face) so that both the traction and blade drive belts will line up OK. That being the case - you don't need the 70 quid Ariens proprietary (OEM) pulley, rather you can achieve the same result with 2 individual standard V belt pulleys - and these are usually as "cheap as chips" :grin: and even aluminium ones will probably do - so they don't have to be cast iron or steel, which are usually more expensive:sigh: and likely to incur the wrath of the "purse keeper"

So, if I have this right now - all you need is one 70 mm pulley and one 140 mm pulley, both with an internal bore / key-way dimension that matches your B&S shaft - should be easy

Here is a link to a local (Australian) suppler of V Belt pulleys - I got this by simply Googling "V Belt Pulleys" - so you should be able to find a similar supplier somewhere nearby in Scotland. This link will give you some idea of the pulley choices available. The link has a catalogue - so will give you a good idea of the pulleys and dimensions that are available here - so should surely be available in the UK

http://www.gbtrans.com.au/pulley.html

P/S - I am guessing you are looking for "B section" belt pulleys - that is the usual belt section used on ride ons - but check this before ordering pulleys.

PP/S 1st it was chainsaw overhaul, now a mower engine transplant, next an overhaul of the log trailer and then re-do the lights in your work shop - Tell me Texas - What the hell do you do in your spare time???:laugh::laugh:


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave: Texas
> 
> PP/S 1st it was chainsaw overhaul, now a mower engine transplant, next an overhaul of the log trailer and then re-do the lights in your work shop - Tell me Texas - What the hell do you do in your spare time???:laugh::laugh:



Don't forget the Suffolk Punch mower with the dodgy Tecumseh you helped me sort out ray:


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi Tr,

I'm getting a little worried about MrChooks... haven't see him for a few days. I hope he is not in his Piper trying to dump buckets of water on the wildfires.


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: SABL and Texas.

Tks for the concern guys - no I am still here - just been a bit busy studying for my IFR theory test :sigh: 

And whilst I was doing that, my co-owner in the Piper backed the tail into the hanger door - so the "lil Arrow" will be out of action for a week or so 

Texas - I had forgotten about the Suffolk mower - I suspect I was right - you are setting up an outdoor equipment yard on the quiet and likely using the "purse keepers" small change for working capital!!


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: SABL and Texas.

Tks for the concern guys - no I am still here - just been a bit busy studying for my IFR theory test :sigh: 

And whilst I was doing that, my co-owner in the Piper backed the tail into the hanger door - so the "lil Arrow" will be out of action for a week or so 

Texas - I had forgotten about the Suffolk mower - now I suspect I was right!!!! - you are setting up an outdoor equipment yard on the quiet and likely using the "purse keepers" small change for working capital!!


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Ya had me worried MrChooks

Glad all is well and tell your partner to keep 'is tail outa trouble!! Best of luck on your upcoming test!!


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

I know it is getting a little off topic here. When was in the Army and got to fly a lot, when the pilot said the were going to fly IFR, that meant "I follow Roads" :laugh:

BG


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: BG you are right - that expression still applies today, but when the Wx gets crappy - the roads can be hard to see 

So I am biting the bullet and going back to school - and I gotta tell you guys - I AM WAY TOOOOO OLD FOR THIS STUDY STUFF!!!:sigh:

At least it will give me something to do whilst the repair shop replaces the trim tab on the Piper Arrow's tail - I can hardly wait to see what those parts cost - and we complain about OEM mower parts - those guys are complete amateurs compared to Piper, when it comes to parts prices "sticker shock":upset:


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

We just flew lower. I have landed in more than one farmers field. Yes they were helicopters.

I am sure your repairs will be expensive. 

BG


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: BG - Helicopters!! - that's cheating - everyone knows that helicopters can't fly - it is just that they are so ugly - the earth repels them!!!:laugh:

Expensive!!! - I dream of them being merely expensive :upset: - this lot will probably put the workshop owner's kids through private school for a couple of semesters!!!


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Got any pic's of damage ? If so PM me please.

BG


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: BG

No pics yet - maybe later in the week - but not much to see, I'm told- 

Just a crinkle in the trailing edge of the elevator. The adjustable trim tab is just a little adjustable strip built into the trailing edge of the elevator panel. Whole thing isn't much more than a nasty bit of "hanger rash"

But with aircraft - a little bit of control surface damage - means a likely removal & inspect lower part of tail and replace the trim tab - so a total PiA

The only good thing is that our maintenance guy thinks he can source a replacement trim tab and that we could be back in the air by early next week :grin:


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Just like you told Texas rose, you may have to make something work if parts are not available. You being a gearhead I would looking into beer cans and pop rivets. Or you make the parts out of spruce wood. Howard Huhes did during the WWII, the Spruce goose.

Texasrose: You could have 2 pulleys welded together, if the shaft, on the engine is not long enougth.

BG


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Other people make these parts... I'm sure MrChooks could make something equal or better. I think the problem lies in certification. I have a neighbor who works on planes.... I wondered about him when he took a motorcycle for a test drive with a gas can (temporary gas tank) hanging from a strap around his neck. 

Maybe not a good site for a pilot to check out:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/

I browse around there when I get bored.


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: SABL - Yes you are right - all parts and maintenance on aircraft is subject to licensing and logging in the aircraft' maintenance records and you get "clobbered big time" if you cheat

On your link - we have a similar publication here. (we call it the "Crash Comic")

Would love to see a pic of your neighbour with the gas can around his neck - sounds to me like he was attempting to get himself a "Darwin Award"


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm surprised he hasn't achieved that honour. And yes, he is a certified avaiation tech. Maybe certifiable is more like it. He's a character...... I hope he doesn't "engineer" his customer's planes the way he works on his own projects!!


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

SABL said:


> I have a neighbor who works on planes.... I wondered about him when he took a motorcycle for a test drive with a gas can (temporary gas tank) hanging from a strap around his neck.


Seems perfectly OK to me...in the good old days of my youth, we had a gallon can with a petrol tap soldered onto the bottom with a fuel line long enough to reach any carburator. We often used it on an MG midget which was constantly burning the points out in the petrol pump..situated under the rear where it could gather all the crud going. 

Mark ye well, one always had to have a passenger...literally to carry the can. 

This thread seems to have taken a very interesting deviation :grin:.

Planes! Ahh, now there's something different for me to get involved with. Anyone got any old Tiger Moths I can carry out a project on?? :4-dontkno

Texas rose.


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave:Texas - a flying lawn mower - now there's a new twist :laugh:

Getting back to the original thread for a brief moment - how is progress on the Ariens transplant - all been quiet for a while :4-dontkno


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave:Texas - a flying lawn mower - now there's a new twist :laugh:
> 
> Getting back to the original thread for a brief moment - how is progress on the Ariens transplant - all been quiet for a while :4-dontkno


'evening Mr Chooks,

All is quiet as you say, got the car to bits at the moment, trouble with the fuel filter. Living off the main road, no means of getting spares, so have to rely on good old 'Royal Mail'. But all is organised and I should be up and running again soon.

On the pulley front: I'm awaiting replies from several firms re, obtaining a pulley. I can still go back to the gadgy that has the gold plated pulley for sale at £70 (ouch). But I'm biding my time and checking out ebay every day. Will have to get a longer throttle cable to reach the B&S carb control, but that will be easy peasy, I've taken the old cable off - which is still like new - and I'm just waiting to see what developes on the pulley front.

Been chipping away at the thick ice around the place so I can walk around easier.

Hope you get your 'plane up and running soon.

If you need a bodger to make you a new trim tab....then I'm your man...now where did I put that scrap alluminium caravan panel?

Bye for now :wave:


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Basementgeek said:


> Texasrose: You could have 2 pulleys welded together, if the shaft, on the engine is not long enougth.
> 
> BG


I've got my eye on a couple of pulleys on ebay, but the numptys selling them aren't answering my 'email the seller' queries. :grin:


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Texas
Good to hear things are progressing - even if you do have to take time out to fix the car:sigh: and don't forget the log trailer and the work shop lights :laugh::laugh:

As soon as you have the Arien's "new heart" beating - post some pics for us all to see

I don't know how to do that - but am sure BG or SABL will, and can enlighten us both:tongue:


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave: Texas
> Good to hear things are progressing - even if you do have to take time out to fix the car:sigh: and don't forget the log trailer and the work shop lights :laugh::laugh:
> 
> As soon as you have the Arien's "new heart" beating - post some pics for us all to see
> ...


Sorted the log trailer and workshop lights. 

As you say posting pics is not my forte, so I'm filling in time chipping away at the ice so that 'postlady Patricia' can get here in her wee red van with me bits.

Tr :wave:


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi Tr:wave:

Glad to see you back.... I think this is YOUR thread Seems we have hijacked it and gotten off topic:grin:

I could have built a flying lawnmower but I keep doings things the wrong way. If I would quit GIVING stuff away I would have had all the components to build something...maybe anything:4-dontkno

In the past few years I gave away a Craftsman 44' W/16Hp Kohler and utility trailer. Hmmm...... a B&S 18Hp engine. A few TV's.... scrap steel (including a '93 Ford van)..... 

That does not include things I have loaned out and haven't seen for years:
Garden tiller.....4yrs ago
Power washer.....3yrs ago

There is one item that gets loaned out but I insist that it be returned immediately..... my 60" Toro which is my biggest asset in regard to $$. 

It's a shame I gave away the double pulley from the Craftsman mower (it had an extended input that could have been possibly trimmed for length) or I would just plain send it to you... I'll look but I think it is history and has been scrapped. 

Time to reiterate what I always tell people:
It's a good thing I never had any sanity.....I would have lost it by now


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

SABL said:


> Hi Tr:wave:
> 
> Glad to see you back.... I think this is YOUR thread Seems we have hijacked it and gotten off topic:grin:
> 
> ...


Like I told MrChooks way back. I'll bet there are loads of suitable pulleys been junked in the US over the years...but when you come to want one...well that's another kettle of fish :wave:


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

*UPDATE;*

Got a positive reply from the third email I sent to the chap I bought the mower off. 

After twice saying he had no parts for the mower, he has, all of a sudden, found a box in his breakdown truck with lots of bits and bobs in. 

Among these items is a twin groove pulley which he thinks may belong to the mower in question. ray:

Unfortunately we are without means of transport, and to cap it all we are snowed in. 

So no parts to repair the car, unable to check the pulley, and more darn snow......HELP! :sigh:

Can it get any worse?


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Great to hear you found some parts to the Ariens:grin:

Bad news about transportation and snow:sigh:

We (central Ohio) lost our snow, which was replaced by 60+ mph wind gusts. At least my electricity wasn't replaced with total darkness last night That happened for 4 days last September.... no fun!!

Oh well, good excuse to stay inside and have a cup o' tea (coffee in my case) while keeping warm. Things could be worse and I don't think you will be cutting any grass in the next few weeks.

I must have missed something... what's up with your car??

I've got 4 dogs that are big enough to pull a sled....will that help?? Nah, forget it..... I don't think anyone can get them to all go in the same direction:4-dontkno Reminds me of trying to keep control of my 5 kids when they were little:upset: Fact be known, I never had so much fun.... I was the biggest kid in the lot


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

SABL said:


> Great to hear you found some parts to the Ariens:grin:
> 
> Bad news about transportation and snow:sigh:
> 
> ...


Well when we fuelled the car up at our once weekly shopping trip into town (Berwick-on-Tweed) nothing seemed amiss. 
When we arrived back at home the purse controller said she could smell petrol. Sure enough there was petrol leaking from around the fuel filter -situated under the rear of the car - jacked up the car to find the filter had a small corrosion holes in it.

Now my car has what's called quick release fittings on the fuel pipes to enable the filter to be changed simply....would you believe the QR fittings were corroded onto the pipes, managed to get one off, but the other - I had to cut the end off. Have organised some fuel line modification bits.

The parts that were supposed to arrive today, didn't.

So I'm having to wait, then I'm going over to the place I bought the mower from to check out the pulley he has in his truck - and anything else I may find usefull.:4-thatsba But even if I do get my fuel parts tomorrow, I may still be 'snowed in'.

I've got 4 kids, they are all in their thirties, but I'm still running around after them. Ho hum, such is life.

PS. I'm a coffee drinker too, never liked tea. Do like a bottle of Chablis 'tho.

Tr :wave:


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

*UPDATE MK2*
Fixed the car (temporarily, new pipe on its way from Vauxhall) dug my way out and drove over to pick up the pulley. As I suspected it is of cast steel construcion and very heavy. Looks like the one in the parts book, pulley diameters are correct. Not sure about the length yet, 'til I try it on the B&S. :4-dontkno

The bore hole is way bigger than the shaft on the B&S engine so some sleeving/bushing will be in order, also the central shaft will have to be lengthened. I reckon it will take me a couple of days to suss out what needs doing. But hey, a lot cheaper than the new one! :wave:


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Hey Tr!!

The QR's are quite the pain...been there. I am quite familiar with the bore hole being bigger than the shaft..... I try to keep that a secret...LMAO. 

Only 4 kids?? Why did you stop short?? The youngest of my 5 will be 28 in May. He is still at home.... nonetheless I love each and every one of them. 

Hope all turns out well....


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

*Re, UPDATE MK3*

Howy folks! :wave: Well what a couple of weeks it has been. 

Got the new fuel pipe fitted to the car.
Took the Briggs and Stratton out of 'Betsy' and back into 'Bertie' with the intention of obtaining a replacement engine for 'Betsy'. The purse controller insisted that I make do with what bits and pieces I had available, so.
Took the Briggs and Stratton back out of 'Bertie' and fitted it into 'Betsy'. Took 2 days to make and fit - filing and emmery papering 2mm away like a good'un - a DIY shaft extension, keyway and sleeve...now if I had owned an ajustable reamer! Lining the pulleys up took a long time - I don't know how many times I had to remove the pulley:upset:.
Anyway! the B&S is in, started on the key, switched off but now wont start/turn over on the key, checked all the safety switches that I could see, nothing seems amiss - can still start it by shorting out across the solenoid terminals.
Of course the wiring was so much simpler on the B&S, but there seems a lot more of it on the Ariens (Betsy) chassis.

Had a run around the yard on half revs...still got the new, longer throttle cable to fit yet...but even on half revs it goes like poo off a hot shovel. 

Where does the 'kill wire' go to? (the ignition switch)???

Should there be some fuses somewhere?

So can anyone enlighten me as to what the starting/stopping off the key problem could be? :4-dontkno

I thank you for any help/tips you may be able to give. ray:


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Hello again Texas.

The kill wire circuit runs thru a series of "micro switches" all wired up in series - so if one goes out - the engine start / run circuit is cut.

There should be a little switch under the seat - designed to kill the engine if you get off the mower with the engine running. These are a bit notorious for problems:upset: - so see if you can bridge it out temporarily - and see if your start circuit works then.

If you have a circuit tester / multi meter - you could check each of these little switches to ensure that they are all functioning correctly. Look carefully - or carefully read the parts manual - there may be several of these "kill" switches, under the seat, maybe on the gear select (so you can't start in gear) as well as engine (low oil level) protection.


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Howdy folks, got it starting off the key, but it will not stop on the key.

I've checked all the micro switches with the multimeter and all seems OK, but, I don't need to sit on the seat, so that switch must be dodgy? Previously I had bridged the seat cables using a fencing staple, but when I reconnected the switch the engine still started up...what gives??

I've run an extension wire from the 'kill wire' terminal on the Murray and tried connecting it to the various connections at the back of the ignition switch multi plug, and switching the key to the off position....but no joy.

I tried to fit the longer throttle cable but the b***** thing is not the right diameter to fit the original lever assembly...OH Bother!!

So my next plan - if I can't sort out the wiring - is to fit a smallish push button type switch and wire the 'kill wire' to this...push the button to stop the engine :4-dontkno

I've given up for the day now, will assault it again tomorrow :grin:

Thank you MR Chooks for your input, at least it starts on the key....now why wont it stop on the key :4-dontkno :4-dontkno

Bye for now :wave:


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Texas.

The start circuit and the stop circuit are NOT related. Better to think of them as 2 individual circuits terminating together in the start / stop switch. 

The only relationship between the 2 circuits is that the stop side of the circuit must be open (not grounded) before the engine will start - but even if it isn't - the starter will usually turn the engine over - it just wont start. So you have the start side working OK, but there is a problem with the stop side:upset:

As you say you can kill the engine by grounding the kill wire but it doesn't work thru the starter switch - sounds like either:
* you are on the wrong connection on the starter switch 9 there are usually lots of choices and can be a bit of a PiA to figure out,
* or the stop part of the start switch is shot;
* or the stop side of the starter switch isn't grounded properly.:4-dontkno

Pull the start / stop switch out of the dash and test it thoroughly on the bench with a multi meter and see if you can find the rogue connection and make sure that there is a good ground to mower frame when you reinstall:sigh:


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave: Texas.
> 
> The start circuit and the stop circuit are NOT related. Better to think of them as 2 individual circuits terminating together in the start / stop switch.
> 
> ...


Thank you Mr C, will have a go after breakfast. 

Did you mean *'make sure there is a good ground to mower frame' *for the switch body? because at the moment the switch is just lying out of the facia panel (not touching any metal framework), perhaps that is the problem? I'll refit the facia panel and switch ... ooh! I'm getting all excited, bring out the croissants. 

I'm getting there, but slowly, just as well the grass isn't growing yet :grin:

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:laugh: Yes Texas - very often, the ground is simply thru the start / stop switch body being in good contact with the mower frame - otherwise there is a wire that comes from the stop terminal on the switch that needs to be grounded to the frame. 

Clean any muck / rust etc away from around the fascia that the starter / stop switch fits into and make sure the corresponding contact area of the starter/ stop switch body is clean - put it in place and gently tighten up the back nut and see if that makes it start & stop by key.

Do you normally mow the grass whilst shoving croissants down your gob at the same time - Multi-skilled! - I am impressed - :laugh:


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :laugh: Yes Texas - very often, the ground is simply thru the start / stop switch body being in good contact with the mower frame - otherwise there is a wire that comes from the stop terminal on the switch that needs to be grounded to the frame.
> 
> Clean any muck / rust etc away from around the fascia that the starter / stop switch fits into and make sure the corresponding contact area of the starter/ stop switch body is clean - put it in place and gently tighten up the back nut and see if that makes it start & stop by key.
> 
> Do you normally mow the grass whilst shoving croissants down your gob at the same time - Multi-skilled! - I am impressed - :laugh:


 It's stopped starting off the key again. There is a spare terminal on the back of the switch but doesn't want to take the kill wire.

I have made a kill switch similar to the ones you find on motorbikes. I'm going to mount this above the key, the word STOP is printed on the facia panel above where the key is situated when in the 'off' position. So the button will look like it's always been there.  

I cannot understand why the key was starting it one moment then not the next?? I've isolated the seat pressure switch which I thought may be the source of trouble. It starts instantly when you jump the solenoid, so I may just live with it. I've checked the switch with the multimeter- and ensured a clean earth contact - and all seems OK.

I'm still waiting for the new longer throttle cable to replace the incorrect one I ordered.

Watch this space for further hair pulling out moments :laugh:

I used to have hair like Elvis...but now it looks like Captain Picards.

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave:Texas - 'tiz starting to sound like a dodgy starter / stop switch and as I can never understand why you would want a key start for a mower (like is someone going to commit an unauthorised mow of your lawns???? - if so - send them over to my place!!!!:sigh- your plan sounds like a good one and cheaper than replacing the key start switch.

The only "in circuit" kill wire I insist on is the one from the low oil cut off - all the others inevitably end up being a PiA at some time in their lives:sigh: especially the under seat cut off. You just need to be careful when you step off the mower if the engine is running - else you mow your foot

If you want to persevere with the key switch - you will have to take it out and check the function of each terminal with the key operation. It's a bit tedious :sigh:- but often there are spare terminals on these "non OEM" key start / stop switches and you might find there are spare terminals that are still functioning - and hence get the thing to function OK by just using some of the "unused terminals"

Just one more thought. See if there was a wiring / circuit diagram in the Ariens manual / parts list just to be sure that all these issues aren't simply a result of one wrong connection. If you are lucky, the wiring / circuit schematic will even give you the colour of the wire that goes to each connection - else you need to follow each wire thru the diagram to make sure that you have each in its correct location. Bit of a PiA - but it will get your machine back to original layout


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave:Texas - 'tiz starting to sound like a dodgy starter / stop switch and as I can never understand why you would want a key start for a mower (like is someone going to commit an unauthorised mow of your lawns???? - if so - send them over to my place!!!!:sigh- your plan sounds like a good one and cheaper than replacing the key start switch.
> 
> The only "in circuit" kill wire I insist on is the one from the low oil cut off - all the others inevitably end up being a PiA at some time in their lives:sigh: especially the under seat cut off. You just need to be careful when you step off the mower if the engine is running - else you mow your foot
> 
> ...


Hello MrChooks.

All wires are as they were connected. Apart from an orange and yellow twin cables, ending in one box like connector that must have gone to the starter area of the original Tecumseh engine - but now isn't connected to anything, could this be the low oil warning?. The plug on the rear of the switch is a block type plug, the switch has 6 terminals but the block plug only uses 5 of them. I have faffed about with the kill wire on the switches various terminals but seems to do more harm than good. But I could go into the workshop tomorrow and it will probably start off the key...very annoying. 

Another thought! I could check/trace the kill wire that is on the Murray and see where that ends up in relation to the switch :4-dontkno

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Yes Texas - looking at the Murray wiring would help - but see if you can get a look at the Ariens wiring diagram and sort out the connection / circuit logic from there.

The low oil cut off is usually connected to the sump area of the engine block - so see if you can follow the wires thru to see where they originate.

Be careful though - make sure you don't inadvertently short the alternator / generator leads as these are easy to wreck and expensive to repair


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave: Yes Texas - looking at the Murray wiring would help - but see if you can get a look at the Ariens wiring diagram and sort out the connection / circuit logic from there.
> 
> *DOH! I'm not very good at sorting circuits out.*
> 
> ...


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

Right, have got it starting off the key. That orange and white twin wire that goes toward the right side rear of the engine, must have been the low oil cut out cables from the original Tecumseh engine sender unit.

I bridged the two cables and now the engine is starting 'off the key', but I've explored all avenues to get it to stop off the key...but still no joy.

I traced the kill wire on the Murray set up, there are only 3 wires into the Murray switch, one of them is the kill wire - which earths through the switch when in the 'stop' position - the other 2 are for the starting.

I'm beginning to suspect that the Tecumseh had a different 'Kill wire' system to the B&S and may have to resort to my facia panel push button mod.

Progress is being made - slowly slowly catchee monkey!

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: OK Texas - so far so good :tongue:

Now for the kill wire - that should originate from the coil / transistor unit on the magneto. BUT make sure you don't confuse the kill wire with the alternator output wire. 

If necessary for +ve ident - take the cowl off and look where each wire originatyes from for a +ve ident. The thin wire coming from the coil / magneto should be the kill wire and that's the one that must go to the start / stop switch. 

The alternator (battery charge) lead also comes from under the cowl but from the alternator output and that usually goes to the live side of the solenoid or directly to the +ve side of the battery - and this is the one you MUST NOT GROUND :4-thatsba


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave: OK Texas - so far so good :tongue:
> 
> The alternator (battery charge) lead also comes from under the cowl but from the alternator output and that usually goes to the live side of the solenoid or directly to the +ve side of the battery - and this is the one you MUST NOT GROUND :4-thatsba


EEEK!  I saw sparks from the + battery lead (red) to the casing when the engine was running (with no battery present) so wrapped me leather glove around it, circuit seems to have survived OK.

Haven't done any work on the mower today ... been collecting logs from the 'log man' in my log trailer would you believe?

Getting back to the mower, I wonder if I connect the 'Kill wire' to the non connected low oil wiring, the engine will stop on the key? after all it has 2 wires, a white and an orange one that used to go to the low oil cut out? What if one of them used to operate the 'kill' part of the wiring as well?? This is the only wiring that goes to the original Tecumseh engine casing...and I'm trying to fit a B&S motor. Who knows it may be as simple as that?

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Texas - be careful with that alternator output wire - *NO GROUNDING THAT ONE* :4-thatsba:4-thatsba:4-thatsba:4-thatsba.

OK - to reiterate. The alternator output wire will go directly to the live (Battery) side of the solenoid or on to the +ve side of the battery direct. With engine running, you can tell which wire this is with a 12V test lamp or multimeter. Just connect the lead to 1 side of the 12 V lamp (or multimeter) and ground the other side of the lamp (or multimeter). With the engine running - you should see the lamp light up (or the meter read about 12-14V). That lead goes direct to the solenoid / battery to keep the battery charged and power the lights (for those poor souls who insist on mowing at night ) AND MUST NOT BE GROUNDED

The KILL WIRE can be routed thru all or a number of the safety cut out features / switches (such as the under seat switch, the low oil cut out switch etc, and the key stop switch). This kill wire and all the cut out switches in the circuit are often connected in series (ie sequentially) so that if ANY of these "protections" are activated - the engine will stop.

Think about the kill wire circuit this way: When grounded, the kill wire shorts (grounds) the low tension side of the coil and that stops the magneto making a spark - hence the engine stops. SO, when the engine is running / ready to be started - all the switches in the kill wire circuit (including the key stop switch) will be open (ie the wire is NOT grounded) and the magneto can then function properly - once the key switch (or a protective switch) is closed (grounded) the magneto is put out of action and the engine will stop.

Hope that helps and pls - watch out for that alternator lead!


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Texas - This is a circuit diag from Ariens with a B&S engine. The top part of the diagram represents the engine and all that complicated stuff at the lower part of the diagram is the safety interlocks on the mower chassis - eg seat, clutch, gear shift safety switches.

The circular item in the diag (item 1) is the key start switch and it looks like the terminals are marked "S G B M" and the correct colour wire for each of these is shown on the diagram. 

*The brown wire is the starter activate wire, 
*The pink is the ground (-ve) side of the starter switch
*The Yellow is the kill wire and 
*The green wire supplies power to the start switch (to activate the starter solenoid)

Looks like the red wire is the alternator output - *(the one you must not ground)*.:4-thatsba


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

*SORTED* ray:

Well we are up and running (after a long delay waiting for a longer throttle cable).

Thank you Mr Chooks for the wiring diagram ...unfortunately mine is totally different colours.

Had to wire in a stop button on facia, which works a treat.

Thank you to everyone that chipped in with info/advice, I could not have managed without it. 

Now what can I pull apart next? :wave:

Tr


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## MrChooks (Apr 19, 2008)

:wave: Well done & congratulations on a job well done Texas.

In response to your question _"now what can I pull apart next"_ - Given you started with a dodgy mower, migrated to a chain saw overhaul and now a heart transplant in a ride on mower - you must be up to building small jet aircraft by now!:laugh::laugh::laugh: - but don't tell the "keeper of the purse!":4-thatsba


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## Texas rose (Nov 24, 2008)

MrChooks said:


> :wave: Well done & congratulations on a job well done Texas.
> 
> In response to your question _"now what can I pull apart next"_ - Given you started with a dodgy mower, migrated to a chain saw overhaul and now a heart transplant in a ride on mower - you must be up to building small jet aircraft by now!:laugh::laugh::laugh: - but don't tell the "keeper of the purse!":4-thatsba


Don't know what I was thinking!!! Got to get the VW camper ready for its annual MOT (ready for selling it ... or not, if it doesn't reach a high enough price). It's booked in for next Wednesday 25th, but the garage will have to come on down and pick it up as it is not insured. 

Have been faffing about taking loads of pictures, to accompany its entry onto ebay. 

Don't really want to sell it, but it has been lurking in my garage for the last ten years, the last three of which it hasn't been used at all, but I still carry out maintenances etc, as I like to potter...as you may have gathered?

So it may as well go to a new owner. I'm sure they will get as much pleasure out of it as we have. We only ever went down to the Med in seven years worth of July's in it anyway. :sigh:

BFN :wave:

Tr


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