# Drum Brake Nightmare



## werkofgenius (Dec 23, 2007)

I have a 2002 Chevy Cavalier that received new shoes roughly a year ago. Since this, the drums have 'warped' and needed turning/resurfacing I am guessing 6 or 7 times. 

After the many turnings, I decided to buy new drums and try that out. They worked great for the longest of any of the solutions (roughly 3 months) but today, they started with the same old symptoms.

The symptoms are a deep scratching sound and low-toned squeek. and the driverside will dip, as though it is catching. 

When I have taken my car into various brake shops, they insist that the brakes are properly assembled and something is causing them to heat up (one mechanic said I must have driven with the E-brake on, which is not true). 

I am not sure what to do at this point. It makes no sense to get the drums turned every 2 months, but I have yet to find a solution to this issue. Also, I have had it to 3 different mechanics to no avail and have done some work for myself (replacing the drums etc).

Any ideas what this could be and how I can resolve it?


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## chopper63 (Dec 25, 2007)

Hi, check if new shoes are wider than the old ones and therefor run on the edge of the drum that wasn't worn by the old shoes. Also check the radius of the shoes by putting them in the drum and see if there is a gap in the middle or at the edges.
If this checks out OK look under the vehicle to see if any of the brake hoses or cables "pulls" te brakes in if the suspension travels in or out. You mention squeek when the driver side dips, this seems to indicate that.

Hope this helps.


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi,
I gather that you can do quite a bit if you replaced the drums yourself. In 2002, I would think that you would have disk brakes on the front and drum brakes on the back. Is the problem on all 4 wheels? Does the car pull to the left when you hit the brakes? (you mentioned driver side diping) Some new pads (disk brakes) are designed to squeel when the ware thin. Air in the brake lines will sometimes keep brakes lightly engaged when the foot is off the brake, causing ware and overheating. If you have let the brake fluid get too low, you might get someone to help you bleed them. The fluid from the master cylinder goes through the ABS system on the way to the brake cylinders. You may be having a problem there with the ABS not letting the pressure bleed off when you take your foot off the brake. If the problem is only one wheel, you might have a bad flexible line from the steel chassis lite to the wheel cylinder. I had one that would allow the high pressure from the brake peddle to get to the wheel cylinder, but wouldn't let it bleed back up the line when released. Needless to say, that wheel would wear out its pads quickly. When bleeding the cylinders and lines, don't reuse the brake fluid. ABS systems like to see clean fluid and they are expensive to replace/repair. 

Hope this helps.


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Afternoon werkofgenius, I would expect that vehicle to have disks on the front and drums on the rear.

Sometimes applying the handbrake on very hot drums can exacerbate distortion.

I don't like using the handbrake unless absolutely neccessary.

I have never seen a problem where that distortion effect kept happening.

Is that vehicle being driven outside normal kinds of everyday general conditions?

Cheers, qldit.


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## devil lady (Sep 27, 2005)

You could also have a master cylinder problem or lack of free play on the brake pedal. The pedal should have roughly an inch of free play. I agree with mack1 about air being a likely cause too.


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## werkofgenius (Dec 23, 2007)

Thank you all for the replies.

I had not came back to this post because it seemed that the problem had been corrected. However, today, my car demonstrated some of the same problems. This is following another resurfacing of the brake drums and bleeding of the brake lines.

One little tidbit of information that I did not include in my original post was that the issue seems to start on rainy days. Maybe that will give someone another idea on what this can be. My inclination, based one this, is that it is not something with the brake system such as the master cylinder, but rather something that has some exposure to the elements.

To answer a few of the questions in some of the responses:
-Disc brakes on front, drums on back is correct

-Driven under very normal circumstances, garage kept, lightly used.

-Rarely use the e-brake (only when parked on hills etc)

-Brake pedal seems to have a reasonable amount of free play 

-Brake shoes used are the same width as the stock ones that were taken off of it.​
Thanks for all of your input and keep it coming if you have any other ideas.


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Afternoon werkofgenius, that certainly is an odd problem.

Is there any possibility this vehicle may have been involved in some kind of incident that may have caused the rear axle flanges to be out of plumb as to allow the rear wheels to be eccentric.

I am thinking that true running perfect alignment of shoes and brake drum surface may not be in perfect alignment.

I have never seen a situation like yours that could not be easily fixed and give many years of troublefree service.

It has to be something odd at the drum to brake liner surface surely.

Has an axle "run-out" check been considered?

Others will have different ideas.

Cheers, Lawrence.


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

You keep saying DRUMS, does this mean that the problem is always on the back brakes?
Your original post mentioned the drive side would dip....sounding like a front brake was grabbing. If the problem is mostly on the back, test the park brake entry cables at the hubs and make sure they will let the brake shoes release properly. You know, pull on the cables and see if the springs on the shoes will pull it back in. Also take a close look at the auto adjust assembly and make sure all is ok with it. The rear axle should have no play in it. Push it in and pull it out...see if there is any end play. Push it forward, back, up, down. It should be rigid in its place. 
Let me again, as in my other post, mention that the flexible brake line from the vehicle frame to the wheel can deteriate inside and work like a check valve, letting brake pressure go to the wheel cylinders but not letting the fluid go back up the line when you take your foot off the brake. This happened to me on a 94 cheve pickup on the left front. It would ware out pads like crazy. A friend has a similar problem, so I know it happens.

Hope this helps. :grin:
Mack1


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## werkofgenius (Dec 23, 2007)

Yes, this is occurring in the rear drum brakes. 

I am unsure of the health of the rear axle. Nothing has happened that should have caused a change in it around the time these problems began occurring. I will double-check when I get around to messing with it this weekend, but in the past, the axle has seemed to be rigid and correct.

After double-checking the axle, I will look at the health of the brake line. 

Thanks for these suggestions.


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## cardoc (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi all.
Since this all started when the shoes were also changed I would highly suspect them,once all other parts (hoses,overadjusted E brake cable etc) have been ruled out.
Asbestos was a wonderful thing for brakes and since it's demise weirld things have happened to friction material.Some times the manufacturer messes up the mix.The rain may be a clue to this.I have also seen the hose cause this.With that wheel jacked up have a helper apply the brake and release.The wheel should turn free imediatly.If while doing this you notice the wheel spins free one way and tighter the other its a sign of an over adjusted E brake.
Good luck 
Cardoc


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

That's some good points Cardoc. I had forgotten about the helper hitting the brake and the wheel turning freely there after. We all do it and forget to note it. That is actually a good test for the brake line check valve action thing I mentioned. Up on the front brakes, it is easy to see when you put a C-clamp on the piston to collapse it if it don't want to callopse, something is wrong. But on the back, that won't work, but the release brake feature would tell the same story. You did, however, forget to tell everyone to put the back drum on with about 3 lug nuts to keep it rigid in its place before making the free rotation test. Thanks for helping us see the obvious.
Mack1


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## Raylo (Feb 12, 2006)

One thing you said sort of struck me: "rarely used e-brake". Perhaps the cable is sticking in the housings near the rear axle. This can happen with underused e-brakes and would keep the brake pressure on, at least a little, when you think the e-brake should be off. Something to check.... BTW, I HATE drum brakes!!!!


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## JaxMax (Jan 3, 2007)

Just to chime in quickly. I've done alot of brakes in my day. I would go with the e-brake cable sticking. I've seen it happen to such an extent that I had to bump a friends truck for reverse to drive several times to loosen the cable. Also, the rear breaks may be miss-adjusted. The wheel should turn with only slight resistance while the rear end is jacked up and car is not in gear (e-break off too). If the drums are over heating for what ever reason, the condition may be worse during bad weather because they heat up and cool down really fast.I would also think, if there were a master cylinder problem, the front rotors would warp, maybe not.
I don't know how exactly how you could test for over heating, but if you could find a long lonely stretch of road (or go round and round in an empty parking lot) and drive for a short time without using the breaks, then coast to stop, you could use a kitchen thermometer or something to test an exposed break drum part to see if it's really hot. The people who fixed your car should be able to do this too. It may be warm, but should not be REALLY hot. DO NOT touch it with your finger, you only make that mistake once-I know from experience. OK, I hope this helps.


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## Raylo (Feb 12, 2006)

Jax, testing like that is a good idea. One of those no-touch infrared thermomometers would be ideal and they don't cost that much these days. I have one and use it for all sorts of things. It was a great add to the tool box.

BTW, I like the advice on not to touch. Kinda like touching a live spark plug lead to to see if the ignition is making spark. I did that..... once..... I think when I was 15 or so. :-/


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## bruiser (Jul 30, 2005)

This is a little off topic, but regarding touching spark plug wires, I used to know a man who had arthritis in his hands. On particularly bad days he would start his car and grab a plug wire in each hand. He said it really helped with the arthritis pain. All I can say is the arthritis must have really been painful for him to grab and hold the wires.


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