# Building a PC Gaming Rig



## KoLAddict

A friend of mine is planning to build a PC gaming rig. He was wondering what parts he should buy for the most powerful rig available, at the time. Price isn't really an issue right now (he's saved up about $15,000 for this).


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

Wow let get to work =) I will be looking for parts online


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

2 x nvidia 8800 ultras $1440 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130093

Pc p&c 1000 watt psu $529 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703007

2 gb DDR3 $500 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144077

THats with no money restraint whatsoever ill leave the motherboard and hard drive to others (i don't have much exp there) He will want to w8 for the intel 6850 with the higher fsb speed.


----------



## KoLAddict

Thanks. That's actually not too expensive. Guess it really is a lot cheaper to make your own PC vs. buying one


----------



## KoLAddict

Any ideas on a decent case?


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

Thats only half the computer but it shouldnt go over 5-6k


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

The case depends on what motherboard someone picks out (i cant tell a diff between them)


----------



## KoLAddict

Ah thanks. I'll wait then. Didn't know Motherboard was that important in determining which case you buy.


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

Well there is btx and atx both need diff air flow.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ah.

That's one thing I'm really trying to push on my friend. I think he should spend extra on a larger case than necessary so everything fits perfectly (wouldn't mind extra space) and better fans.


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

The 8800 ultras are huge he will need a big case....


----------



## KoLAddict

Does DVD-ROM drive matter? Like, can I just buy whichever, or does that all depend on case too?


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

You will probably want a sata dvd-rw drive the sata cable is faster and gives better airflow.


----------



## pharoah

motherboard evga 680i

memory ddr2 1250

cpu qx6700 quad core

 power supply PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1KW

video card 8800ultra 2 for sli

 case antec900

hard drive wd raptor get 4 and raid em

 dvd drive 1 a blu ray drive

phase change cpu cooler for those super clocks:grin:

this would be one nice machine,and be in that budget


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

Actualy i was thinking since it has such an amazing budget why not watercool?


----------



## pharoah

well i did stick a phase change cooler in there for the cpu.


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

thats coooool (pun intended)


----------



## pharoah

use that on the cpu.then water cool the nb,and sb.also water cool the video cards.that would make an awesome overclocking rig.


----------



## pharoah

monitor samsung 27 inch get two and do dual view.


----------



## KoLAddict

Thanks for all the suggestions Pharaoh.

As for the DVD-ROM drive (well, Blu-Ray drive), what's the best non-Blu-Ray drive? Just needs one that plays/burns CDs/DVDs. My buddy doesn't deal with Blu-Ray at all, so that just seems like extra money better spent elsewhere.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.


----------



## pharoah

good sata dvd drive


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok thanks.

Will the HDD, you say get 4 and RAID them. What does that mean, and how do you do it?

EDIT: Also, I was hoping someone could tell me why this HDD:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

is cheaper than this HDD:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136012

The second HDD is the one that was suggested my buddy buys 4 of and RAIDs them. If the first HDD above is bought, then buying four of the second HDDs would almost be a waste of money (unless there's a good reason why the second HDD is almost double the price of the first one but far smaller).

Thanks


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

Raid devides the load so you can transfer data faster (they use the same sata plugs.


----------



## KoLAddict

I know this is a double-post, sorry. Can't find the edit button. I'm assuming you're only allowed to edit your post for so long after you make it.

Just had a couple questions.

On another forum I frequent, someone said the memory is faster than the motherboard by like 50MHz. Is that an issue? I'm assuming the memory will just work at the slightly lower speed no problems.

Also, I was reading the reviews from people on newegg.com about the memory, and the majority (2/3) had negative reviews. Is there memory equal to this kind from a different company? Or do any of you use this memory in your computer (that'll make me feel better)?

Would it be better to RAID smaller HDDs for more money, or buy one larger HDD?

Also, is there any extra equipment needed to RAID HDDs?


----------



## pharoah

actually there was a goood reason for those hard drives.look at the rpm difference between them. the ones i suggested are 10,000rpm drives.the other one is 7200rpm.faster spindle speed = faster disc reads,and writes.

no that motherboard has a built in raid controller.the raid will add even more speed if you do a raid 0.


----------



## KoLAddict

That's cool. So if I buy one large HDD and do a RAID 0 if will load faster?

Are there any larger HDDs that are 10000RPM, or are the ones you showed me initally the largest currently available?


----------



## pharoah

no you need at least 2 hard drives for raid.

edit: there are some larger ones,but you would need to get an scsi controller card for those.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148041

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...Subcategory=410&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=


----------



## KoLAddict

That second one is pretty nice.

I'm assuming it's possible to always upgrade later, correct? So, you can add drives later on if you want? If so, I'm gonna let my friend know and see about that second one. It spikes the price up about $300 but that's not too bad. By the time he probably gets around to actually ordering and building this thing, the prices will have probably gone down a little (knowing him he won't buy anything until the Spring).

Other thing I was thinking about is internet connection and USB ports. What do we do for those? I'm assuming some part of the computer has USB ports on it already. If not, how do we get those on? 

As for the internet connection, is there something that can be done for an external connection? Like, buy something that connects via USB (like the XBox 360 wireless connection)?


----------



## pharoah

the motherboard has all that built in. (usb,and network port's)

edit:yes you can always add more drives later


----------



## KoLAddict

Cool thanks. I know there was another question I wanted to ask, but I can't think of it right now. I'm sure I'll be back later

Thanks for all the help everyone thus far. Really coming along nicely.


----------



## pharoah

your welcome i will keep an eye out for your question.it will come to you right after you log off. :laugh:


----------



## KoLAddict

Well, can't remember that question yet but another one just popped in my head->Monitor.

Will just about any new monitor work nowadays? How does a PC connect to a monitor, or rather, what ways can the PC my friend is building be able to connect to a monitor (so, when we go to buy a monitor, what connection type should we look for)?

I ask now because I know my friend isn't really concerned with that. I know he'll prolly drop a couple hundred on a decent LCD screen monitor with at least 1280*1024 resolution, but other than that it's not too big of a deal.


Just thought of my big question->Sound. I know the motherboard has a sound card, but does anyone know of anything better that'd fit with this computer? Not going for most expensive on this part. Like the monitor, something nice that works and is better than the onboard soundcard would be nice.


----------



## okay player

1280x1024 will limit you to, at most, a 19" 5:4 screen.
It would be a shame to have 2 8800GTX's driving something like that.

At the bare minimum I would suggest a Dell 2407. These run around 700-800 US (I think), but you're getting:
a) widescreen format
b) 1920x1280 resolution
c) USB hub, and a plethora of inputs... of which you will want to use DVI (pretty much the standard these days)

In terms of soundcards, I'm not sure what would fit your bill the best... if this is strictly for gaming I'd go with a Creative X-FI extremegamer or something similar. I think all the X-FI/Vista issues have been ironed out by now.

Another option would be to wait until the new Auzentech Prelude comes out. This card will feature full Dolby DTS support, as well as EAX 5.0 and will effectively blow all other soundcards out of the water. It will be pricey, though. No MSRP yet, but I'd guess around 200-250$.


----------



## KoLAddict

Thanks.

I know my friend will only be getting one 8800GTX for starters. Two is overkill for most stuff right now, but I'll definitely keep that monitor in mind when we get this sucker built.

btw, can someone tell me the benefit of sli two graphics cards? Do you get double the effectiveness then?

Also, can all this stuff run in Windows XP? We're big gamers, and won't be getting Vista until it can run our games


----------



## okay player

All this gear will run fine on WinXP. If you want to stick with XP that's cool, but I think I should mention I am running Vista Home Premium and can run all my games...(Fear, Halflife 2, Doom3, Oblivion, NHL2k6, Stalker, Quake4, etc)

As for SLI, the performance increase is definitely not doubled. I think it's more like a 50% increase. Someone please step in here if this is innaccurate. Some may disagree with me here, but I think the costs of SLI far outweight the benefits... especially when you're talking about pricey hardware like 8800's.

cons:
-more $$ for the second card.
-need adequate power.. and 8800's are power hungry as it is.
-generate more heat
-not all games play nice with SLI

pros:
-~50% performance increase
-option of running large dual displays

If the money is not an issue, and you have an adequate power supply and cooling, and think you'd benefit from another GPU, sure, go for it... if not, I don't see much point.


----------



## KoLAddict

You can start with one and sli another down the line, correct?


----------



## okay player

Absolutely.
Stick with the same manufacturer, though.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok cool, thanks.

I'll let my buddy know to go for just the one for now. I mean, my computer can run most games fine right now and it has an ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 512MB graphics card. The problem I have is the processor, which is dual 1.6GHz. So that graphics card should be fine for a good while.

Now, a processor question. How do 4 processors work anyways? I mean, they are each less than 3GHz. Do they work much like SLI'ing graphics cards together? When you are working on one program (like, a game) do they work in unison to increase speed overall by a significant amount?


----------



## KoLAddict

Also, does anyone have any ideas as to a bigger case overall? Better to have lots of excess room than little/none. 

I don't know anything about cases though, so with everything we plan to get, might have plenty of room. For anyone wanting to help or unsure, here are the current plans for the comp:

Case	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

PSU	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703007

Processor	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115011

Motherboard	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013

Memory	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145171

HDD	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136131

Video Card (just one immediately, but want room for 2) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130093

Disc Drive	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151141

Course, nothing is finalized yet, so please offer opinions on changes/what is currently there. I know I have friends that keep telling me the PSU is a beast for what is currently the plan, but with 2 Geforce 8800 Ultras, I think it's sufficient (plus, I'd rather have a larger one now than have to buy a new one later. Not exactly cheap).

I know someone (I think pharaoh) suggested a huge nearly $1000 water cooling system. I don't know how those work at all (if they are internally/externally installed) but a larger case for recommendations would be nice, in case down the line my buddy does decide to start overclocking his PC (when gaming starts to demand it).

Thanks

EDIT: A buddy suggested this case http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=16338&vpn=PC-V2000APlusII&manufacture=LIAN-LI

Does anyone know anything about that case? He said it was huge, but I can't find any info on it. Don't even know if it'd be compatible with the motherboard and such my friend plans to get.


----------



## KoLAddict

Sorry for the triple post. Nobody's answered my other two posts' questions yet (not negative, just saying. Take your time. It'll be a while til this thing gets made), and just wanted to say we've got the plan finalized now, and just wanted to run it by everyone in case there was any last errors.

The plan from my previous post stays, with a change to the memory. Instead, my buddy wants to use a few sticks of this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134428

Initially. Later on he plans to sli two 8800 Ultras, and will change memory to do so. Just wanted to check and see if, when someone is able, they could check and make sure the memory was compatible with everything.

Also, since he's not planning to sli two 8800 Ultras immediately, he was wondering if anyone had any idea as to a smaller PSU. I know PSUs are very important, but figure it could shave off a few $100 for now. Can always upgrade it later, when he plans to sli two 8800 Ultras together.

Thanks all


----------



## pharoah

samsung monitor

actually i listed a monitor all ready,but here it is again.for the interface go with the dvi (digital input) alot of people say its clearer.they can still use the older 15 pin d_sub connector to.


that case i listed is pretty big,but if you want something absolutely ginormous go with the mountain mods ufo case


----------



## KoLAddict

Thank you.

Not sure what my friend is planning to do for monitor. I know he wants a semi-decent one, but most likely what will happen is we will go browsing at stores nearby where he lives. That way, if there's any problems (like dead pixels or burn-in) it can easily be replaced.


----------



## pharoah

from what ive heard samsung,and lg monitors are the best.just be sure for a gaming monitor to get one with an 8ms response time,or lower.


----------



## KoLAddict

Thanks. I'll add those to the list of things to look for

EDIT: Glad there was enough time left to edit this.

On another forum, someone mentioned this Vid. Card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127288

It's the same as the one you suggested, just a different brand and cheaper. Are there any incompatibility issues or anything?


----------



## pharoah

on the first page of this thread i listed the ultra not the gtx.


----------



## KoLAddict

Yeah, I know.

This is an Ultra as well, just from MSI instead of EVGA. It's cheaper than the EVGA one.

Was wondering if there was any reason for me to not get the MSI one, like incompatible with the EVGA-made motherboard.


----------



## pharoah

ok let me tell you why i always get evga cards myself.

1:lifetime warranty

2:you can overclock it and the warranty is still good

3:you can change the stock cooler and the warranty is still good.as long as you dont physically damage the card while changing it.

also i seen you asked about a cheaper power supply look at this one ultra x3 1000w


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok cool, thanks on both of those.

I'm switching the PSU to the one you just linked to.

What's the stock cooler on a graphics card? Is that the fan that's on it?


----------



## pharoah

yes the heatsink,and fan on it.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok thanks. I'll take note of them both and when he's ready to buy the parts, we'll check both of them and see the price diff. and decide then.

Thanks


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok, this is it everyone who cares

This is the final rig my buddy plans to build. 

Case	Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

PSU	Ultra / X3 / 1000-Watt	http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2700093&CatId=106

Processor	Intel Core 2 Extreme 2.66GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache Processor	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115011

Motherboard	EVGA NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013

Memory	Kingston HyperX 2 1GB RAM sticks	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134430

HDD	Western Digital Caviar 750GB 7200RPM	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136131

Video Card	MSI GeForce8800 Ultra	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127288

Disc Drive	SAMSUNG Black 18X DVD+R http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151141

I'm actually impressed. Granted, he'll need to find a monitor, and if he wants better sound he'll have to get a good sound card and speakers, but still. This sucker is pretty top-of-the-line and the final cost will be under $3000, or right near it.

Any last minute tweaks/incompatibility issues that anyone can see? Once it passes the final check, he's gonna make the list FINAL, which in his words means no more tweaks, lol. Then when he's ready, he'll order everything.

On a side note, if this is final and everything is compatible, I'll probably end up with a rig like this sometime next year (hoping early spring) when prices come down on stuff a little, or when I have the $3000 to buy all the pieces


----------



## koala

Some very good choices there for future-proofing. I can't see any obvious bottleneck issues, so I'm sure he'll be pleased with the results.

EDIT: He might find having only one CD/DVD drive a bit limiting if he's into multimedia. Also, two smaller hard drives instead of one would make defragging and other system functions quicker, which he might find more convenient.


----------



## KoLAddict

Sweet, thanks. Glad we got it finalized.

Thanks everyone, for all the help. When my buddy gets it built, I'll definitely be posting about how well it went (first time for either of us building a comp, and neither of us are too tech savvy). Hopefully, it's as easy as people claim, lol.


----------



## KoLAddict

Noticed something

Most of the stuff my friend is buying from newegg.com is OEG. Not sure what that means, but I was looking at someone's review of a HDD and they said that it didn't come with SATA cables because it was OEG. What does OEG mean, and is that a big deal with my buddy's rig?

Should he buy stuff NOT OEG, so he gets all the cords he'll need?


----------



## koala

I'm not sure about OEG, but OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer, meaning stock parts with no aditional manuals, support, etc. Check with Newegg before purchasing.

If the OEG price is cheaper then it still might be worth going for if the extras aren't needed or can be purchased cheaply.


----------



## pharoah

looks very good.only other thing is dont use the stock cpu cooler.if your gonna do air cooling go for this zalman 9500 water,or that phase change cooler would be awesome though.


----------



## KoLAddict

The Phase Change Cooler is internal, or external?

If internal, is there any type of external coolant of some sort? lol, know it sounds weird. Just trying to think of easy ways to modify it afterwards, to add cooling to it after it's built.


----------



## pharoah

the phase changer can be used either way.the pic on the right hand side is the actual unit.the left pic is an example of how to install it,but ive seen those outside the case to.


----------



## KoLAddict

Sweet. Not sure if my buddy will ever get it, but I know I'm a huge gamer and will prolly need it eventually


----------



## pharoah

that really depends on how much overclocking your going to do.if your just going to run it at stock speeds dont bother.if your going for a mild oc get a cheaper water cooling system,but for a major oc the phase change rocks.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ah, ok. Well, I guess I won't be picking it up for a while after I build my computer. I know my buddy won't use it, because after he builds this thing, he's not gonna bother upgrading/messing with stuff again for a while. 

Now, for me, I'm cutting some corners for stuff. I'm gonna get this HDD:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

Almost $100 cheaper than the 750GB one my buddy plans to get, and only 250GB smaller. Not bad. 500GB will take me a long time to fill, since it's almost solely gonna be filled with games.

Also, I was looking into OS discs. Do you (or anyone else) know of a decent site to get cheap OS discs? I know they're pretty expensive everywhere, but still wanna check. I want to get the full version of Windows XP basic, and eventually want to get the Vista basic upgrade.

I just have too many games that I'm not sure if they will run in Vista or not


----------



## TheMatt

Nice, but go for the Abit, Foxconn, or Gigabyte 680i boards, they are higher quality overall and will last longer.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127020
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186113&Tpk=foxconn+680i
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128037

The Abit has a built in Soundblaster, and the Gigabyte has Quad-Gigabit LAN. These three boards have better Polymer Aluminum Electrolydic Capacitors which are more durable than standard Electrolydic Capacitors. They also have better ESR and have a higher temperature rating (125 degrees) and lower tolerance.

Capacitors are the most failure prone component on a motherboard. I would definitely invest in a board with more durable caps.


----------



## KoLAddict

Thanks. I'll look into them.

Are they each compatible with everything else we plan to get for the rig? Really wouldn't want to go through and re-figure everything else out, lol


----------



## TheMatt

Yeah, but that RAM won't run at full 1200 MHz speed, but remember that you really won't get much more if any out of those sticks. With a 1066 MHz FSB you will only need two sticks of DDR 533 MHz in dual channel, and you only need two sticks of DDR 667 MHz in dual channel for a 1333 MHz FSB processor.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok. I like the ABIT motherboard you showed, above.

Is everything else we plan to get compatible with it? Here's the updated part list:

Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

Ultra / X3 / 1000-Watt	http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2700093&CatId=106

Intel Core 2 Extreme 2.66GHz Quad Processor	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115011

ABIT IN9 32X-MAX LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127020

Kingston HyperX 2 1GB RAM sticks	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134430

Western Digital Caviar 500GB 7200RPM	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

MSI GeForce8800 Ultra	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127288

SAMSUNG Black 18X DVD+R http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151141

You said something about more effective memory?


----------



## pharoah

keep the memory the higher the frequency it is.it will allow higher overclocks while still running 1:1 with the fsb.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok, thanks. So the setup I just listed, everything's good to go? Just a matter of ordering?


----------



## pharoah

it all looks good to me the memory may be a bit overkill.you would have to get to 600fsb to have that ram @ 1200.it will assure that the memory doesnt hold back your overclocking.


----------



## KoLAddict

pharoah said:


> it all looks good to me the memory may be a bit overkill.you would have to get to 600fsb to have that ram @ 1200.it will assure that the memory doesnt hold back your overclocking.


I have no clue what that means, lol. Can you "dumb it down" for me please?


----------



## pharoah

that ram will not run out of headroom when overclocking.the front side bus "fsb" is what you raise to overclock the cpu.as you raise it the memory frequency gets higher as well.i seriously doubt you will get to a front side bus of 600.thats how high the front side bus would need to be for the ram to run at 1200.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ah, so you were saying the ram is plenty effective for the system as a whole? I get it.


Also, as far as overclocking goes, how exactly do you do it? Does it mean tweaking internals?


----------



## pharoah

you overclock by entering the motherboards bios.where such controls are located.its all done on the screen not tinkering with the electronics directly.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ah, that's cool. That means it's relatively easy to do. That's good *evil grin*.

That $1000 water-cooling system you flashed back on page 1 might actually be bought by me eventually for that reason then


----------



## pharoah

thats not water cooling its a phase change cooler works like an air conditioner,but a little more complicated.


here is an example of the bios i was talking about.screenshot of my bios.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ah, I think I've been to that screen before. 

As for the Phase Change Cooler, that's definitely getting added to my list, for when I get to overclocking my processor

Thanks for all the help. I'll be lingering around from here on out, and will be sure to ask questions if I have any (I know my buddy and I will have questions when we get to the building part).


----------



## pharoah

no problem when it comes time to overclock definetly come ask questions.that needs to be done in small steps so you dont blow anything up.


----------



## TheMatt

Another thing that is nice is that the X6800 has an unlocked multiplier, so you can take the "Easy way" when overclocking. It will only change the CPU speed but not anything else. :wink:


----------



## pharoah

the chip he is looking at has an unlocked multi qx6700.


----------



## Kalim

BTW guys, the prices are dropping in July, so hold on before buying an Intel CPU. Some more Intel CPUs are being released at very good prices.

And the RAM can be changed "asynchronous" to higher/lower than the FSB. You have the options of ratios on those boards. I don't have the MSI board with me here neither any of the newer boards, but I remember using the P6N SLI had "Linked", "Manual" and "Auto" options under "Cell Menu" (IIRC) for DRAM. Setting Manual can let you enter any RAM and FSB MHz separately and run that, and the board supports 1333MHz FSB officially, and *can* run RAM at those speeds too. :wink:


----------



## ebackhus

KoLAddict said:


> Ok cool, thanks.
> 
> I'll let my buddy know to go for just the one for now. I mean, my computer can run most games fine right now and it has an ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 512MB graphics card. The problem I have is the processor, which is dual 1.6GHz. So that graphics card should be fine for a good while.
> 
> Now, a processor question. How do 4 processors work anyways? I mean, they are each less than 3GHz. Do they work much like SLI'ing graphics cards together? When you are working on one program (like, a game) do they work in unison to increase speed overall by a significant amount?


As you know, the processor handles all the data that shuffles through the system. The way this is handled is through threads. A single-core system can only process one thread at a time. Intel's HT technology was the first step away from this, but didn't work as well as a TRUE multi-core system. AMD's Athlon64 X2, and Intel's Core 2 Duo processors offer you TRUE multitasking capability when using an OS that supports multiple cores. Windows 2000, XP, and Vista support this. A number of Linux distributions also support multi-core processing.

When you increase the number of cores in a system you increase the number of threads that can be handled at a single time. AMD's Barcelona chip and Intel's Qxxxx series chips feature 4 independant cores on a single chip. In AMD's case, they are on a single die which allows for much faster intra-core data flow.

As for using all the cores for a dedicated application, that depends on the application at hand. Most graphics programs like 3DS Max, PhotoShop, and other support multiple cores. A small number of games also support this. In the case of AMD you can install the dual-core optimizer which works as a go-between for single-core applications on a multi-core AMD computer. It'll use both cores to procress the data, giving a substantial boost.


----------



## TheMatt

I just noticed the PSU. I would go for something like this instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256020
Go for this if you want modular cabling:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153053&Tpk=thermaltake+1000w

BTW EB is right, and IMO AMD still has more architecturally advanced dual core CPUs. Intel just happens to have better quality overall boards, and for one I like the LGA socket much better than the standard PGA (if you have ever installed PGA and LGA processors, I think you will agree). Additionally, Motherboard manufacturers have made more advancements such as the addition of Polymer Aluminum capacitors in place of standard Electrolytic capacitors which leak less and have greater temperature and lower tolerance ratings.

Additionally, The C2D (Conroe) are more efficient partly because they are on 65nm and partly because overall the IC has less resistance meaning less power is converted to heat. Intel also reduced the pipeline depth to 14 (from 31), wheras AMD had a 20-stage pipeline since socket 939 (and I believe 754 as well). This means that a single San Diego core for instance running at the same speed as a single Conroe core would move less data (neglecting the memory controller, which IMO is the only thing in addition to the FSB that has kept AMD ahead).

However, as EB mentioned, the speed at which cores can communicate in an AMD X2 are much faster because they use a direct link via a Crossbar switch rather than the relatively slow FSB. Additionally, the memory controller is connected to each core via the Crossbar switch. This means that the FSB of AMD processors is far more efficient than that of Intel's. Intel, however, is in the process of adding a memory controller to future architectures, and also possibly making their chips more like those of AMD.


----------



## pharoah

will have to disagree there is nada wrong with the x3

http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=103


----------



## TheMatt

My apologies, I was thinking of the X2. The X3 is stable, so go for it because it is a decent deal.


----------



## pharoah

omg i wouldnt wish an x2 on anyone.:laugh:


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

some guy has a 550 watt x2 on the forums powering an 8800gtx i am trying to get him to buy a new one....


----------



## Kalim

An X2 is danger and an X3 is better but not the best of the 1kW. Because they were cheap, almost on free after rebate for a year, many people touted them as the next prophecy, aswell as because certain reviewers work for that company.


----------



## pharoah

yes i know jonny guru works for them.here are some other reviews that are positive as well.

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/articles/psu/ultra/x3_1000/ultra_x3_1000_7.jsp

http://www.cluboc.net/reviews/power/Ultra/X3_1000/Page2.asp

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTMxNyw4LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==


----------



## Kalim

I don't doubt what you said pharoah, and I've seen most online reviews on the unit out yet, as well as had my own done at our work place for enterprise systems. :smile:


----------



## KoLAddict

Thanks, wow. Was getting ready to ask another question, and saw all these new posts. Curious as to why I didn't get an e-mail saying there were new posts, since I've subscribed to this thread. Oh well, my question:

I went to this site:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=432&model2=695&chart=170

and tests showed that this processor:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115001

worked better than the quad for games. Other forums I've talked to about the comp. build have said, that the quad is actually worse strictly for games, because games have to be programmed to make use of the extra two processors, and there aren't many that are (Supreme Commander is the big one that does).

So, is the 2.93GHz processor I linked to compatible with everything else? If so, I'll put that in the plans for what to get. I think my buddy is gonna stick with the quad, because he does non-gaming stuff and multi-tasks a lot on the comp, so the quad will be better for him. Besides, there's always upgrading the processor later


----------



## Kalim

Yes, many of the quads are not as efficient core-to-core as a C2D and that drops the performance where the game isn't programmed as multi-threaded.

The C2E you linked runs the best of the Intel dual cores, along with the E6850 and X6850.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok cool, thanks. I've got my and my buddy's final builds ready then. Only difference being he's using the power supply Pharaoh showed earlier (X3 I think) and I'm gonna use the first one Matt showed (it's like $100 cheaper than the X3 or whatever and I'm planning on a budget.). My buddy is also going to use the 2.66GHz Quad Core processor and I'm gonna use the 2.93GHz duo processor.

Thanks all. This forum is great and you people are amazing


----------



## TheMatt

The reason the X3 is more expensive is because it has modular cabling, so if you are looking for that, then the X3 is a good choice.

BTW, The E6850 will be a better choice because of the 1333 MHz FSB, and will actually have a reduced proce after July 22, so if you can wait then you will get a better processor.

You're welcome. :smile:


----------



## KoLAddict

I can't find the E6850 on newegg.com. Is it not out yet?

As for modular cabling, what does that mean?

Thanks


----------



## TheMatt

It probably isn't out yet. The I have only seen the 1333 MHz FSB C2D processors available in UK online stores, but it should be out on July 22 when the price drops increase.

Modular cabling allows you to remove cables you don't need. If you have ever worked in a relatively small (mid tower for example) case with a PSU that had a lot of wires, you know that all those wires can be annoying and get in the way. Modular cabling allows you to have wires attached that you need. You can take out and remove wires as necessary.

Modular cabling is really more of a luxury than a necessity and can be classified in the same category as tool-free drive bays. They don't really impact performance, but they do help out with assembly and maintenance.


----------



## KoLAddict

Is this the X3 you were talking about?

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/articles/psu/ultra/x3_1000/ultra_x3_1000_7.jsp

Kinda got lost in the talking. Can't tell what the X3 is, lol.


----------



## TheMatt

Yeah, you mentioned it in your last up to date build: http://www.techsupportforum.com/gam...5986-building-pc-gaming-rig-4.html#post974668


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok thanks. I thought so, but wasn't sure.


Thanks for all the help everyone. My buddy and I each have our computer builds now (slight differences, mostly so mine is a little cheaper) and now that we know everything we have is compatible and such, it's just a waiting game for me, until I can afford to buy it. Luckily, with the Intel price drops later this month, I'm hoping either the dual 2.93GHz processor I'm planning to get drops in price significantly, or a more powerful dual processor shows up at around the same $1000 price tag.


----------



## TheMatt

The Intel price drops will be very significant after July 22, so I would wait:










BTW the E6540 and E6550 will have a 1333 MHz FSB not a 1066 MHz FSB.


----------



## KoLAddict

Thanks.

What does FSB stand for?


----------



## TheMatt

Front Side Bus. AKA the CPU bus or processor bus, it connects the processor to the Northbridge or MCH (Memory Controller Hub). It runs at a multiplier of the of the base motherboard speed (200 MHz for example is a common motherboard speed when 800 MHz is the FSB).

BTW Yes there is a Back Side Bus (BSB), it connects the CPU directly to the L2 cache in systems with the Dual Independent Bus Architecture. Modern and semi-modern processors such as the Intel Pentium Pro, Intel Pentium 2, AMD Athlon, AMD Duron, and all newer processors have the dual independent bus architecture.


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

Front side bus speed.


----------



## KoLAddict

Oh yeah, lol. I do remember Pharaoh telling me about FSB before, lol. The E6540 and E6550 are processors that WILL be coming out, correct?

Do you know what their speeds are?

I know I've got my budget rig at around $3000 w/o monitor, keyboard, and mouse. If either of those are a decent jump from the Duo 2.93GHz processor, I'll probably factor one of those into the budget instead.


Also, can someone tell me what the avg rate is for when new stuff comes out for PCs? I know it's rather quickly, but do you know what the rate is, or at least what the avg. rate components see price drops? Just trying to get an idea as to what the PC will cost when I'm able to buy the components.

I know a magazine I read regularly (Game Informer) has a little section on stuff, and they did a thing on graphics cards not too long ago that had a comp. in it with a processor that's rather mediocre now.

EDIT: Also, does anyone know anything about the E6850 Processor that's coming out July 22? On another forum, someone showed it to me, and it has the same specs. as the duo I plan to get, with the difference being it has a locked multi (and is about $650 cheaper). Can someone please tell me what a locked multi is?


----------



## TheMatt

http://www.techsupportforum.com/gam...5986-building-pc-gaming-rig-5.html#post977613

The E6850 will be 3.0 GHz, have a 4 MB shared L2 cache, and will have a 1333 MHz FSB. It will use the Conroe core and will be on 65nm.


----------



## KoLAddict

I'm assuming the E6850 will be a dual-core or will it be a quad?


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

Dual core


----------



## KoLAddict

Nice. Any idea how much it'll be? If it's not too much more than the one I am currently planning to get, I'll switch them.

Also, what's a locked/unlocked multi on a processor, and what does it do/allow?


----------



## 1 g0t 0wn3d

Around 280


----------



## KoLAddict

That's pretty cheap.

With that, I'm assuming the fact that it's locked is why it's so cheap. What does locked mean, that it can't be overclocked? If that's what it means, I'll prolly get it. I mean, I can live with not overclocking my processor, and at that price, I'm saving nearly $700.


----------



## KoLAddict

Yeah, found it. A locked processor (Like the E6850) is locked, and thus can't be overclocked (or requires tinkering to or something).


----------



## KoLAddict

Well, (sorry, triple post. No EDIT function). Apparently OEM means the product ships straight from the manufacturer or something along those lines. Basically, no cords and stuff. So, I've got a question.

The HDD and the DVD-ROM drive I am planning to get from newegg.com are both OEM. They are:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151141

If all I get is the unit, what coords/software stuff will I need to find elsewhere, and does anyone know where I could find that?


----------



## koala

If you get the OEM units, you may need to buy SATA cables. These are sometimes included in the motherboard package, or you can buy them for about $4 each. 

*Newegg SATA cables*

The best thing to do when buying OEM is to speak to a Newegg sales rep who can tell you exactly what's included in each package.


----------



## Kalim

KoLAddict said:


> Yeah, found it. A locked processor (Like the E6850) is locked, and thus can't be overclocked (or requires tinkering to or something).


The E6x50 is a new revision of the Conroe core, G0. It can be overclocked by increasing the FSB Matt was talking about. They can hit 3.5GHz for sure, even more depending on the board/RAM/cooling.

E6850: 333 FSB x 9 Multiplier 2997MHz
E6750: 333 x 8 2664MHz
E6650: 333 x 7 2331MHz

Locked multiplier doesn't allow you to decrease it or increase it. Unlocked allows you to increase or decrease, which puts less stress on the motherboard, CPU and components. Unlocked multiplier also allows you to choose different varieties of speed increases:

So you can have 3500MHz but with 350 x 10 with an unlocked multiplier E6850 (ES samples only) rather than 389 x 9 for a locked E6850. :wink:


----------



## TheMatt

I believe the X6850 will have an unlocked multiplier. The X6800 did, so it will probably follow it.


----------



## KoLAddict

koala said:


> If you get the OEM units, you may need to buy SATA cables. These are sometimes included in the motherboard package, or you can buy them for about $4 each.
> 
> *Newegg SATA cables*
> 
> The best thing to do when buying OEM is to speak to a Newegg sales rep who can tell you exactly what's included in each package.


Which of the SATA cables is compatible with my HDD:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

and my DVD-ROM Drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151141


Thanks for the help. I'm sure buying the SATA cables with the OEM packages will still be considerably cheaper than buying them from the store.


----------



## Kalim

Cables supporting SATA II transfer rates like this will work for both drives. Just checkout the length of the cables to make sure you get what you need, nothing too long and nothing too short.


----------



## KoLAddict

So will this one work for both:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812123178

It's half the size of the one you showed. I think it's compatible. I matched the two up and everything was the same.

I found this one too:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812123184

It's even shorter than the first one, but it says this:

Latch 90 degree to 90 degree

the other ones latch 180-90degrees. What does that mean?


----------



## TheMatt

The 90 degree one basically means it is like a "hook" at that end where the connector makes a 90 degree angle. 180 degrees just means its straight. I usually prefer cables that are 180 degrees on one end and 90 degrees on the other.


----------



## Kalim

Some of the systems have large GPUs obstructing the entrance to SATA ports, and those varying angle connectors can be useful where different orientation is required. That's also true when modding the case, if SATA/IDE components are realigned.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok thanks. I'll go with the 18'' ones then. Can't find any smaller 180 degree ones, and I know if I don't get 180 degree ones I'll be screwed when building the PC


----------



## KoLAddict

Almost...done. 

Have everything figured out. Found a retail HDD that's a little smaller, but is actually cheaper than the 500GB OEM one that doesn't have cords and stuff. 

I also found a Disc Drive retail, that appears better than the Samsung one (and is a little more expensive). I was hoping someone could tell me if it was better or not, and if it was compatible with everything else.

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=LH20A1L-R

Thanks

EDIT: The site specs for it says it comes with a Beige Bezel. Anyone know what that is? 

Thanks again

DOUBLE EDIT: Also, if that one is compatible, it's actually only gonna be $1 more than the other one, since after buying the cord it was about $40 for the other one.


----------



## pharoah

looks fine to me.all that means is it comes with a beige face plate,as well as the black one.


----------



## KoLAddict

Ok cool, thanks. Finally got MY version of this PC complete, lol.

Case	Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

PSU	Ultra X3® 1000-Watt ATX	http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2700093&CatId=106

Processor	Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0GHz	http://www.buy.com/prod/intel-core-...-0ghz-4mb-l2-775-pin/q/loc/101/204694858.html

Motherboard	ABIT IN9 32X-MAX LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127020

Memory	Kingston HyperX 2 1GB RAM sticks	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134430

HDD	Western Digital Caviar SE 250GB 7200RPM	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136037

Video Card	EVGA GeForce 8800Ultra	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130090

Disc Drive	Lite-On LH-20A1L-06 DVD/RW Sata Drive	http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=LH20A1L-R

That's the completed rig. Mostly sticking this here for future reference, in case something happens to my comp. Final price (as of right now) is rounded up to $2070. Not bad, especially since by the time I can afford it, it'll prolly be much cheaper, lol.

Dammit.

I'm bored so I've been browsing around looking for cheaper prices of the same stuff, and found this motherboard:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...011&SRCCODE=YAHOODF&CMP=SPC-YAHOO#detailspecs

What makes that motherboard so much cheaper than the one in my previous post, and are they the same essentially (compatible)? I was looking at Nvidia's official site to see how much their stuff was, and found this motherboard as their top ranked one.


----------



## pharoah

evga board lol the first one i told ya to get.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## Kalim

The board that's cheap that you linked is not the normal 680i SLI board, but the SE TR version with only 1x PCIe x16. It's not the same as the full scale latest revision EVGA 680i SLI MB.

*E6850 @ $294*

I am surprised that as the official release date approaches, the demand is so high the etailers have pushed the prices upto $400 for this processor. :sigh:


----------



## KoLAddict

Thanks.


----------



## redsunx

for your friends gaming rig, idk if i was being lazy but didnt read most of that stuff sooz I would say get 4gb


----------



## Kalim

I thought I'd let you know...

Intel reduced the price of these CPUs to force users into the new 1333FSB chip by making it the same price as the E6600 and the Q6600 - $266.

E-tailers faced a *massive* demand, most notably Newegg. On receiving the first batch shipment, within 30 minutes, Newegg raised the first price of $325 to $345. As you know, in many places they are now out of stock.

This is also called "Sticky Prices" in economics, where the price change takes a while to show up due to demand (at times). Best wait a while, they'll have to decrease them.

For comparison sake, check these out:

$330: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028&Tpk=e6850

$300 free shipping: http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/pro...id=18149&sid=NWGHWE409SBP9NAPCRXH9TB3GL9S2G8E

$267: http://www.ncixus.com/products/25299/BX80557E6850/Intel/

Never be a devotee of a particular store front. :4-thatsba


----------



## jaggerwild

Hey Guys not to high jack, but he keeps showing a mid tower in his build. If you gets an 8800 GTwhateva then I'd go with a full tower like this for good air flow and for easy access
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133021

139.00 after rebate need i say more:heartlove ?


----------

