# XP crashed; can't read HDD; "Invalid partition table".



## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Hi, I'm rather desperately hoping someone out there will be able to help me with this problem. I'll try to keep it fairly brief while including every step I took to get to where I am now.

One night, despite what my common sense was telling me, I was still playing with a fairly new, seemingly buggy program (Google's "Lively") when I had just started defragmenting. This was probably a bad idea, to tinker while defragmenting, right? I've not had troubles doing such before, but if it's a ridiculously stupid thing to do, someone please tell me off for it now, so I never make the same mistake again.

A few moments into defragmenting, the computer locked up. I left it alone for a few hours (though I'm not sure how long it was actually locked up for), and when I came back, a blue screen error, "KERNEL_STACK_INPAGE_ERROR", was displayed. I rebooted and this time received a "SESSION3_INITIALIZATION_FAILED" blue screen error.

I rebooted once more, and then many times more, getting "Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key." every single time.

I tried booting from my XP Home CD and entering the Recovery Console to see if I could browse the hard drive, but it could not seem to detect it or access it. However, from entering the BIOS settings, I could see that the capacity and other details of the HDD were correctly detected. I also opened up the tower and tried to ensure that all cables were still properly connected.

Finally, I tried the "fixmbr" command from within the Recovery Console. Ever since then, I have been getting "Invalid partition table" on bootup. Was this another bad idea given the situation? I was not sure what else to try.

I was running Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack 2, and the hard disk is a Seagate ST340810A.

It has been suggested that I try the "fdisk" command, but I am not sure how to use this, as it is not recognized within the Recovery Console itself. Is there any chance "fdisk" might solve my current problem?

It has also been suggested that I could run the HDD as a slave in another computer, to access the data, but I've never done this before. Would that bypass the problems of not being able to browse the disk, and the "Invalid partition table" error?

Ideally, I would like to recover the data from the hard drive and, if possible, get the hard drive back in working order again.

Does anyone have any advice that might help me do this? Many thanks in advance to anyone who may be able to help!


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

Hey. This might help but not for sure. When you restart your computer keep pressing F8. If this works a screen should appear giving you a list. When you get this list go to the one that says last good known configuration. Like i said before i don't know if this will work but you can try.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Welcome to TSF. :wave:

Please download and burn the ISO image of *Parted Magic*.
Boot the computer with the CD. When Parted Magic has loaded click the arrow next to the Utilities icon and choose TestDisk.












Then follow the steps described here: http://www.techsupportforum.com/1163140-post1.html


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

wok951 said:


> When you restart your computer keep pressing F8. If this works a screen should appear giving you a list. When you get this list go to the one that says last good known configuration.


Thank you, Wok. I'd be so very happy if this had worked for me, but unfortunately I'd already tried several times, as well as F5, but neither gives any response. The keys that do work are F2 for BIOS setup, and F11 to select a boot device. Thanks for the suggestion, though!



eneles said:


> Welcome to TSF. :wave:
> 
> Please download and burn the ISO image of *Parted Magic*.


Thank you for the welcome!

Unfortunately I have no CDs at hand to burn to at the moment; I'll have to try to purchase some. Also, I'm not especially familiar with the computer I'm posting from right now, but it seems to be able to burn CDs. I think.

I'll do my best to follow your instructions as soon as I acquire a blank CD, but I'll still be watching here until I can do that. Thank you for your assistance, Eneles!


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## OMGmissinglink (Sep 24, 2006)

Non distructive repair install

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport/learnmore/tips/doug92.mspx


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Apologies for the rather long delay; I finally acquired some blank CDs. I downloaded Parted Magic and burned an ISO of to a CD to boot from on the problem computer. I followed the steps described in the linked thread, and rebooted.

On bootup, I am now greeted with the following message:

_NTLDR is missing
Press Ctrl+Alt+Del o restart_

(Strangely, as shown above, the "t" from the word "to" was not displayed.)

Anyway, normally I would try to look into the problem and find a way to solve it myself, but after my recent misfortune I am hesitant to do so, and would feel safer getting advice from someone more experienced first.

So, what would I be advised to do now?

Thanks once again, and thanks for your patience!



OMGmissinglink said:


> Non distructive repair install
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport/learnmore/tips/doug92.mspx


Thank you, OMGmissinglink; I had been considering running a repair installation, and will continue to bear this in mind to try if necessary.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

this is what you need to do. Insert the xp disk and boot from the CD.
when everything loads press R for repair. when recovery console comes up press 1 for the installation then put the password if there is no password then press enter. Then copy these two lines in

copy e:\i386\ntldr c:\
copy e:\i386\ntdetect.com c:\


e is refering to the disk drive. if your disk drive is different then put that letter in. An problems just write back.


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## Dracia (Mar 19, 2008)

In Recovery Console, the command equivelant for Fdisk is actually typed in as "diskpart". I had to use this to delete and recreate new partitions as XP wouldn't install on my existing ones for unknown reasons. Hope this helps somehow.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

wok951 said:


> this is what you need to do. Insert the xp disk and boot from the CD.
> when everything loads press R for repair. when recovery console comes up press 1 for the installation then put the password if there is no password then press enter. Then copy these two lines in
> 
> copy e:\i386\ntldr c:\
> ...


Thanks for the fast reply, Wok!

Using my USB keyboard, I selected the CD drive as the boot device, continued, and then was instructed to "Press any key to boot from CD". However, the very same keyboard I had just used to select the boot device did not elicit any response when pressing keys at this point. I switched to an older, PS/2 keyboard and this worked fine. Any idea if it's normal for a USB keyboard not to work for that part, or why mine didn't?

Once in the Recovery Console, I verified that the CD drive was drive D:, using the "dir d:" command to list its contents. I then attempted both the following commands:

_copy d:\i386\ntldr c:\
copy d:\i386\ntdetect.com c:\_

However, both commands resulted in a prompt to overwrite the same files that I was copying, indicating that they were already on the C: drive. Thinking this was strange, I replied with "n" to both prompts and came back here to check. Should I overwrite the two files, or try something else?



Dracia said:


> In Recovery Console, the command equivelant for Fdisk is actually typed in as "diskpart". I had to use this to delete and recreate new partitions as XP wouldn't install on my existing ones for unknown reasons. Hope this helps somehow.


Aha, thank you, Dracia. I suspect it's now too late for me to make use of "diskpart" in this case, but it sounds like it might've been useful if I'd used it at an earlier point. Hopefully I'll remember it if something like this ever happens again.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

yes you should overwrite the existing files. As for the keybored check your bios to see if it is switched on. usually bios has an on off switch for the usb ports on startup. That is what i had to do when i got a wireless kebored.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, I overwrote both existing files, then rebooted and briefly inspected the USB BIOS settings. I had USB Controller enabled, USB 2.0 Support enabled and Legacy USB Support disabled, and I've left these settings alone for the moment.

After the "Press any key to boot from CD" message displayed this time, nothing happened. I waited a few moments, then rebooted and entered the BIOS to set the boot devices back to their default order: Floppy, HDD then CD.

I rebooted once more, and, after the usual system information screen, I now get a completely black screen except for the flashing text cursor. Nothing else seems to happen.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

I don't know if you tried but there should be a reset option on your bios. Try that then try it again.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

You're right, Wok; there's a "Load Optimal Defaults" option, and it'd been a while since I last tried it.

I tried it now, then saved changes and exited the BIOS, but it doesn't seem to have helped.

Just a bit more information; I get the flashing text cursor at the top left for a moment, then there's a click, which I believe is the empty floppy drive, and then the flashing text cursor moves to the second line.

Thanks for the suggestion. Any more ideas? It's unsettling having no error message at all...


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

if it is the floppy there shold be a light next to it flashing is it?


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

I just checked again, and yes, it seems that the click I mentioned came from the floppy drive. This is what happened:

When I first switch the computer on, the light on the empty CD drive lights up briefly and makes a sound, as if checking for a disc. A few moments later, the light on the floppy drive lights up, produces a single click after around one second, remains lit for around two more seconds, then becomes unlit.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

is the cd in the drive?


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Sorry, no, the CD drive is empty, as is the floppy drive.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

put the cd in and see what happens


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

I assume you mean the Windows XP CD?

Anyway, when I do this, I get the same black screen with a flashing text cursor. So, I entered the BIOS and set the CD drive as the boot device, and set "Legacy USB Support" to "Enabled", which seemed to allow my USB keyboard to work with the "Press any key to boot from CD" prompt.

After pressing a key, the Windows XP CD loads as normal.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

okay good. now just follow the instructions like before. And then see what happens


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Do you mean the instructions to copy "ntldr" and "ntdetect.com" from the CD to the HDD again?


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

ya and do overwrite them


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, I followed the same steps, receiving the message "1 file(s) copied." after each file. After exiting the Recovery Console, the computer rebooted. It asked me to press any key to boot from CD (as the BIOS settings still have the CD as the first boot device), which I ignored, but I once again get the following message:

_NTLDR is missing
Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart_

I'm not sure if it's significant, but there are a small number of colorful, garbled characters on the screen at this point; this also happened the first time I received the error message about "NTLDR".


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

we're going to try something else. Go back in the rovery console and typr this in.

*bootcfg /rebuild*

then follow the steps. When you get to thius part: Add _installation to boot list? (Yes/No/All)_

type Y then press enter.

then it will ask you: Enter Load Identifier:
enter your operating system ex: Windows XP Professional or Windows XP Home Edition and press Enter

Then it says: _Enter OS Load options_

type in */Fastdetect* then press enter after that is done type exit and take out the disk and restart. Try that and see waht happens


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, this is how far I got:


```
C:\WINDOWS>bootcfg /rebuild

Scanning all disks for Windows installations.

Please wait, since this may take a while...

Error: Failed to succcessfully scan disks for Windows installations.
       This error may be caused by a corrupt file system, which would
       prevent Bootcfg from successfully scanning.  Use chkdsk to
       detect any disk errors.

Note: This operation must complete successfully in order for the
      /add or /rebuild commands to be utilized.


C:\WINDOWS>_
```
Just a note; "succcessfully" is actually how it was displayed.

Should I go ahead and use "chkdsk" right now?


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

type this in chkdsk /f

the /f should fix that problem.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

I tried, but I get this:

_The parameter is not valid. Try /? for help._

When I use "help chkdsk", the available chkdsk parameters are said to be as follows:

_CHKDSK [drive:] [/P] [/R]_


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

try /r then


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, thanks. I used "chkdsk /r".

Chkdsk is checking, and it's at 53% now, but is progressing very slowly.

I'm just posting to say I haven't disappeared; I'm still around, and I'll post again when I have the results.

Update: 60% completed.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

okay thats good. i'll still be around to help. And it will go slow cause it also repairs.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Thanks for being so patient; I really appreciate it. Chkdsk has now finished:

_CHKDSK is checking the volume...
CHKDSK is performing additional checking or recovery...
CHKDSK is performing additional checking or recovery...
CHKDSK is performing additional checking or recovery...
CHKDSK found and fixed one or more errors on the volume._

Do you think I should exit and reboot now?


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

yes then see what happens.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, I exited and let the system reboot.

I received the "NTLDR is missing" error message again.

I then entered Recovery Console and copied "ntldr" and "ndetect.com" from the CD to the HDD, then rebooted.

I received the "NTLDR is missing" error message again.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

try that other thing i said after copying those two files.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Try either *fixboot* or *bootcfg /rebuild* in the recovery console.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, I tried the "bootcfg /rebuild" command, following the steps you outlined, and everything went smoothly.

After rebooting, I once again got the "NTLDR is missing" error message.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

try what eneles said try fixboot


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Oh, good to see you again, eneles, and thanks.

I tried "fixboot", and the new bootsector "was successfully written".

After rebooting, I was once again told that "NTLDR is missing". It seems that this screen is accompanied by around five colorful, garbled characters (which I mentioned earlier) whenever the line "Press any key to boot from CD" was also displayed on the same screen.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

did you try fixmbr? If not type in fixmbr


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Yes, I tried fixmbr, but it was before I actually started this thread. I mentioned it in my original post, but I'll quickly outline it here. I was persistently getting the following message on bootup:

_Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key._

I tried *fixmbr*, which changed the error message I was getting, to this:

_Invalid partition table_

But, as you know, I've done a few extra things since then. Do you think I should try *fixmbr* once again?


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

yes try it one more time see what happens


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

This is what happened:

_** CAUTION **

This computer appears to have an non-standard or invalid master boot record.

FIXMBR may damage your partition tables if you proceed.

This could cause all the partition tables on the current hard disk to become inaccessible.

If you are not having problems accessing your hard drive, do not continue.

Are you sure you want to write a new MBR? y
Writing new master boot record on physical drive \Device\Harddisk0\Partition0.

The new master boot record has been successfully written._

I believe that was the exact same warning I received last time I used *fixmbr*, too. Anyway, after rebooting once more, I am again told that NTLDR is missing.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

alright got one more trick after this i have no clue what to do. Boot form the cd again but this time when it loads it enter. Then press F8 to agree. then press r. what this will do is rmove all system files and replace them this will take while. If you are not sure what to do then just reply back.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Alright, I tried running the repair installation. Windows copies files and makes preparations, and eventually the onscreen bar reaches 100%. Setup then reboots to continue the installation, but I'm instead given the "Press any key to boot from CD" prompt again, instead of Setup continuing. Is this usual? I don't believe this happened when I ran a repair installation of XP before.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

it is fine leave it alone then it should just run into setup


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Yeah, that's what I thought I should try; but for some reason, when I did that, I get the "NTLDR is missing" error message again instead of Setup continuing.

With "ntldr" not showing up, and Setup not getting the hard disk properly prepared for repair installation, it seems almost as if the hard disk's not being written to, or something...


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

go into bios again and check your boot prioities like what boots first second and so on. Make the hard drive the first thing and see what happens.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, I entered the BIOS to set the hard drive as the first boot device and rebooted, only to get the NTLDR message again, along with the usual "Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart". For a while now, pressing Ctrl+Alt+Del has not been able to get any response from the computer on this screen (but it did work for a little while, earlier), even though I enabled "Legacy USB Support" in the BIOS. So, I've been having to reboot manually, with the power button.

Upon bootup, I can press F11 to temporarily change the boot device to the CD drive in order to prepare another XP repair, fortunately without changing the first boot device in the BIOS, which will remain as the HDD for the next bootup.

Setup recognizes that it didn't complete the last repair installation, and asks if I want it to retry "upgrading" Windows. The other options are to install a fresh copy, or to quit. I tell it to retry, and now I'm waiting, but based on what I've seen on the last few tries, I'm pretty sure it'll just revert back to the NTLDR error message after Setup reboots.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

alright see what happens if it doesen;t work then i can give you something else.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Yes, Setup rebooted the computer, and it's still adamant that NTLDR is missing. I'm sorry for all the trouble; what were you going to suggest?

(I did have a quick look earlier on, but perhaps I was looking in the wrong place: I was wondering; perhaps I could try to find NTLDR on the HDD myself, from the Recovery Console, and see if it's really missing?)


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

i'm not sure on how to do that. The only suggestion i have left is to go to this website and follow what they say to do. If sthis dosen't work then you might have to reformat the computer.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

To look for the missing file, I was thinking of using *dir* to list contents of directories, and *cd* to switch directories if needed at any point. I successfully found "ntdetect.com" in the Windows folder, but couldn't see an "ntldr", though I'm not sure if I was looking in the correct place.

What is the website you suggest I visit, to find the instructions? Forgive me, but I don't think I can find any link to it in your last post.

If reformatting the drive is inevitable, I would still like to try copying data to another device, if possible. Since I can now (thankfully) access the C: drive from the Recovery Console, I'm guessing it'd be possible to at least copy some files over to an external USB hard drive, or something.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Did you ever follow the steps I suggested in post #3?

Also - I think you should replace the HDD cable.


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## itbekri (Jul 29, 2008)

I absolutely hate boot record viruses. I am pretty sure that is what you have as I had one not too long ago and ran into the same problems. My suggestion would be to backup anything you want to, format and use something similar to partition magic if partition magic is not available and make sure you erase and rewrite your master boot record.


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## ThorXP (Mar 11, 2008)

What is the make and model of the hard drive?

I would suggest that when you find this out that going to the web site for the manufacturer of the hard drive and getting the hard drive diagnostics downloaded and burnt to a CD-R as a bootable disk to boot and run the diagnostics ont he hard drive.

You can download and run diagnostics from the drive manufacturer to test the drive.

Samsung http://www.samsungelectronics.com/hd...ies_index.html
Seagate http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/index.html
Maxtor/Quantum http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/products/index.htm
Western Digital http://support.wdc.com/download/
IBM/Hitachi http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT
fujitsu/Seimens http://www.fcpa.fujitsu.com/download...es/#diagnostic
IBM/Hitachi http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT
Hard Drive Diagnostics Tools and Utilities
http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287#toshiba
.


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## raashid_sy2k (Jun 9, 2008)

Hi This is Raashid..I m having a problem with blue screen in windows vista..i m getting an error 0x00000C1F5.i got this error while reinstalling the operating system.tried to run test on HDD.all test passed.what should i do to resolve the issue.what are possible symtoms or troubleshooting steps.
PLZ HELP


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Hi raashid :wave:
You should start a thread of your own where you describe the problem in detail to get help.
If we try to help more than one person/thread it will lead to confusion for all of us, including you.


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## wok951 (Apr 27, 2008)

sorrry i forgot about the link here it is.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320397


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

IMO, it's time to take the HDD out and mount it in another computer (as a slave) or an external enclosure.
Then save all the data you want to keep on the other PC before you proceed.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Apologies for the long silence; Internet access hasn't been very convenient recently.



eneles said:


> Did you ever follow the steps I suggested in post #3?


Yes, of course--I was extremely grateful for your clear and prompt advice, eneles. Thank you. I followed it as soon as I had acquired a blank CD and posted the outcome in post #6. It successfully got me past the "Invalid partition table" problem, and brought me to the "NTLDR is missing" message, which I unfortunately still receive.



eneles said:


> Also - I think you should replace the HDD cable.


Is it really possible that the HDD cable has become damaged in the circumstances it was used? Just to reiterate what originally caused the problem; I was defragmenting the C: drive while trying Google's program "Lively", which is fairly new, quite buggy and currently somewhat of a resource hog.

The combination of Lively and Defragmenter locked the system up for some time, before causing a blue screen crash. Perhaps these circumstances might help give some possible indication of what could have happened to the drive? This was the apparent source of all the problems in this thread. The HDD had never encountered any problems before. Does anyone know what possible extent of damage can occur from running Defragmenter at the same time as other applications?



itbekri said:


> I absolutely hate boot record viruses. I am pretty sure that is what you have as I had one not too long ago and ran into the same problems. My suggestion would be to backup anything you want to, format and use something similar to partition magic if partition magic is not available and make sure you erase and rewrite your master boot record.


To my best knowledge, the system was clean and the problem arose within moments of Defragmenter and Lively crossing paths. However, I could be mistaken. My main concern is indeed backing up the data on the drive; I'd then be quite content to reformat or even purchase a new drive if necessary. Thanks for the advice!



ThorXP said:


> What is the make and model of the hard drive?
> 
> I would suggest that when you find this out that going to the web site for the manufacturer of the hard drive and getting the hard drive diagnostics downloaded and burnt to a CD-R as a bootable disk to boot and run the diagnostics ont he hard drive.


The hard drive is a Seagate ST340810A, having 40GB capacity; and according to Chkdsk, the HDD volume was created in 2001.

Just before I started this thread, I actually downloaded SeaTools for DOS, used it to create a bootable floppy disk (I have not noticed a SeaTools CD-R alternative), booted this up on the problem computer and read through the provided instructions, then ran a "short test", which resulted in the HDD receiving a "pass" status. I did not run a longer test, as the instructions seemed to indicate it would not be appropriate for the problem at the time.



wok951 said:


> sorrry i forgot about the link here it is.
> 
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320397


It's no problem at all. Thanks!

Oh, I'm still using Service Pack 2, and the article says "If you are using Windows XP with Service Pack 2 (SP2) or you are using Microsoft Windows 2000 with Service Pack 4 (SP4), this is not your issue. View the "More information" section for similar issues."

The "More information" section looks like it may be useful though; I'll look into it.



eneles said:


> IMO, it's time to take the HDD out and mount it in another computer (as a slave) or an external enclosure.
> Then save all the data you want to keep on the other PC before you proceed.


I had been considering this, but since I've never mounted an HDD as a slave before, I wasn't sure of all the details. In post #1, I asked if it would bypass the problems of not being able to browse the disk, and the "Invalid partition table" error. However, since this error's resolved now, it probably wouldn't be an issue anyway.

Also, pretty much all the other HDDs I have around here are fairly full, so I may need to do some organizing beforehand if I'm going to do this.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

If you don't want to bother with jumper settings etc to slave the drive - use the cables from the CD/DVD drive and have the "bad" HDD connected as the only drive on that cable.


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## itbekri (Jul 29, 2008)

Using defrag while editing or saving a file will almost never cause a problem. At the same time though, there is that one in a million chance it could. I still doubt that it was caused by that though. I would also like to mention a MBR virus shows up on only a small handful of virus scans and only when set to check the MBR(At least from what I have seen). If the computer had been connected to the internet, the chance is still there that it would have gotten one.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

eneles said:


> If you don't want to bother with jumper settings etc to slave the drive - use the cables from the CD/DVD drive and have the "bad" HDD connected as the only drive on that cable.


So this would work just as well as slaving it? I'll bear this in mind, though the only working, bootable HDD here does not belong to me.



itbekri said:


> Using defrag while editing or saving a file will almost never cause a problem. At the same time though, there is that one in a million chance it could. I still doubt that it was caused by that though. I would also like to mention a MBR virus shows up on only a small handful of virus scans and only when set to check the MBR(At least from what I have seen). If the computer had been connected to the internet, the chance is still there that it would have gotten one.


Ah, thanks for the insight. I do admit that I've never had a problem with running Defragmenter while using other applications before. I've also never really learned much about MBR viruses.


Another thought that crossed my mind is that maybe system files were somehow left locked or with their permissions changed or something, when Defragmenter was interrupted. I'm not sure how feasible this is, though.

I just used Recovery Console to check the contents of the problem HDD, and ntldr and ntdetect.com are both already in the C: directory, even though I continue to receive the "NTLDR is missing" message. They're flagged as hidden, read-only system files, and ready for archiving.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that creating an empty "NTLDR" file would allow Windows to boot and replace this file, though this sounds unusual to me.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Muskrat said:


> So this would work just as well as slaving it? I'll bear this in mind, though the only working, bootable HDD here does not belong to me.


Yes, it will work - probably better too.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Based on advice in Microsoft Knowledge Base from a link provided by wok951, I've created an XP boot disk; a floppy disk containing ntldr, ntdetect.com and a standard boot.ini. I tried booting from this disk on the problem computer, and it seemed to work at first. However, since I'd earlier tried running an XP repair installation, the repair setup resumed instead of loading Windows as normal.

The time remaining until Setup completed started at 39 minutes, and when it reached 34 minutes it asked for my NVIDIA nForce Ethernet driver, asking me to select its location. I didn't know where to find it at the time, if I even had it, so I clicked Cancel. The system froze and I got a blue screen error regarding "NVNRM.SYS". I remember having this problem last time I ran a repair installation, too, and it seemed to be fixed when I entered the BIOS, disabled Onboard LAN, then ran another repair setup.

So, I entered the BIOS, disabled Onboard LAN, booted from XP CD, started another repair installation and waited. When the computer rebooted to continue Setup, I told it to boot from the floppy boot disk, since this is what had worked earlier that day.

However, instead of continuing Setup, the computer reads from the floppy disk for a while, then just stops and sits at an entirely black screen, without even a flashing text cursor. I've rebooted several times, even reformatted the floppy disk and copied the boot files to it once more, but I can't seem to get past the black screen.

All I'm trying to do is get the repair setup to continue. It worked once or twice, but now the black screen is the furthest I can get. Any ideas?


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Disable USB, sound and card reader (if you have that) in BIOS.

Please post the *system specifications*.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

I disabled sound in the BIOS and it worked; Setup completed. Thanks.

I haven't managed to get all the system specifications yet, but I can work on it.

After continuing the repair installation, the computer rebooted and Windows XP is now asking me to enter user names, and that is the screen I am still on. Did it just overwrite the old installation...?

Update: Never mind; I continued and discovered that my old account is still there, just as I remember it. Thank goodness.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Good news. :smile:
We won't need the system specs, unless there are additional problems.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Many thanks for all your support, Eneles. I was very relieved to discover that Setup hadn't just erased everything without asking me, after telling me it was just going to do a "repair".

As soon as I logged in, Windows recommended I restart my computer, because of certain changes. I complied.

The next time I logged in, Windows told me that "The system has recovered from a serious error." As if I hadn't noticed!

My main concerns now are backing everything up (and maybe getting a new hard drive), and checking whether that dreaded "NTLDR is missing" problem is fixed (considering I've been booting from floppy disk to bypass that error message).


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

I rebooted, with the intent of entering the BIOS to enable the "Onboard LAN" once again; but now (before even altering anything in the BIOS), when I boot from the floppy boot disk, I'm brought to an entirely black screen once again; and when I boot from HDD, I'm brought to a black screen with a flashing text cursor once again. Both these things were happening at some point earlier in this thread, too. How frustrating.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

It could be a power problem - post the system specs.

I think you should get a new HDD and install XP on that.
Hard drives don't cost much these days - Seagate ST3160815A 160GB Hard Drive (£28.18)


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Here are the system specs as complete as I can find at the moment:

OCZ GameXStream 700W Power Supply Unit
ASRock AM2NF3-VSTA Motherboard, Socket AM2
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core CPU, Socket AM2, 3.00 GHz
4 x 1GB PC2-6400 (DDR2-800) Ballistix Tracer memory module
HIS X1950 Pro AGP 512MB Display Adapter
Seagate ST340810A, Ultra ATA, 40GB internal hard drive
Windows XP Home Edition SP2

Thanks for the link; I'm just wondering why it booted into Windows just fine once or twice, and not anymore afterwards. Also, I think this system would support SATA, as far as I can tell.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Good PSU, so that's probably not the problem - try another power plug for the HDD anyway.

Yes, the motherboard supports Serial ATA 1.5Gb/s drives. You can buy a SATA II drive (3Gb/s) and use a jumper to run it in SATA I mode (1.5Gb/s).
http://www.ebuyer.com/cat/Hard-Drives/subcat/3.5"-SATA-Drives


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## DaJerk529 (Aug 2, 2008)

I've noticed that my USB is not fully functional until Win XP has completely booted up. This caused a problem with some of the “F” keys like F8 when I tried to boot to safe mode; regardless of my bios settings. So I used the old PS/2 port to plug in my keyboard. At this point with all the changes you have made, from another pc, add the “bad” drive as the slave or to the CD ROM cables of a different computer. That computer will not try to boot up from slave or CD ROM drive (the BIOS on the other computer shoud be set to not look to CD ROM to boot!...at least not first) Back up the files from the “bad” drive to something else…if you want to be quick about it, just back up the entire drive and grab the stuff you really want later; after which you reformat the entire “bad” drive and install a clean version of windows onto it. After the back up, reinstall the “bad” drive back into your original computer, *partition it* and then reinstall windows. Partitions work very well for me because if you ever need to install windows again on that drive, you can without having to remove the drive to back up files. Why, the files are saved on the different drive letter you created when the partition was made. From that point on anything on the C: drive (assuming you have one operating system to choose from) is only related to files that are needed to run windows. Windows “My Documents” and everything should be defaulted to drive letters other than C:


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

I tried another power plug for the HDD, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

I'm still trying to work out how to boot back into Windows if possible, to avoid the hassle of reinstalling every single program I had. There is no CD inserted. If I use a boot disk, the computer will read from the boot disk for a few moments while a flashing white text cursor is displayed on the screen. The screen will then become entirely black, and the floppy disk drive will click three more times, then nothing else will happen.

Booting without a floppy disk will result in the same thing, except the computer never gets past the flashing text cursor screen.

What happens is very much like what is described in the following article I found:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314503

However, Ctrl+Alt+Del still restarts the computer, so I'm not sure if it can be described as completely "not responding".


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Clear CMOS:
Get rid of static electricity by touching a radiator or bare metal on the computer case.
Then unplug the computer from the wall outlet and open the case.
Remove the little "coin-like" battery on the motherboard.
Move the "clear CMOS" jumper on the motherboard from pins 1&2 to pins 2&3.
Wait 30 minutes.
Replace the jumper to pins 1&2.
Put the battery back.
Close the case and start the computer.
Enter BIOS and choose "Load setup defaults" (or something similar) - save and exit BIOS.


Also - run the computer with one stick of RAM.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Regarding clearing the CMOS: Sorry, I didn't mention this in my previous post, but I can actually enter the BIOS settings without any problems. The black screen issues I described do not occur until after the POST screen. Does this mean there would be no point in clearing the CMOS, or should I try it anyway? Thanks.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

It looks like one or more BIOS settings are incorrect - clearing CMOS will hopefully fix that.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, thanks. I removed the battery, moved the jumper to pins 2&3, waited more than 30 minutes, then replaced them. I also removed all but the first stick of RAM.

Upon booting up, I got the expected "checksum error", and chose to restore the BIOS to default settings. It didn't make any difference, unfortunately; I'm in the exact same situation as before.

I do recall that, last time Windows loaded successfully (after I recently ran the repair installation), I actually disabled the Windows paging file. It had slipped my mind that I did this; sorry about that. It was since I disabled the paging file that Windows stopped loading again.

Do you think this is related? I could try repairing XP again, and seeing if I can boot into Windows and make sure I leave the paging file enabled this time.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

I don't think the page file is related to the problem.

Connect the HDD to another - get the data you want to keep off of it.
Then wipe it completely with *DBAN*.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Apologies for the delay.

After installing XP on a new HDD, I've managed to grab most of the data from the problem HDD. I was ideally hoping to grab the entire contents of the drive, unaltered, so that there might be some chance of making a perfect copy of it on another drive.

However, I was unable to grab everything from the drive. First I tried copying them using the Windows GUI, but it failed and aborted when something couldn't be copied. Then I tried the xcopy command, but it claimed "insufficient memory", which I've read can be caused by a limitation regarding the lengths of directory names. Finally, I downloaded and tried "xxcopy" instead, which copied most of the files across from the old HDD, though it still reported that some hundreds of files were not copied, and I'm not quite sure why.

Sorry for the trouble, but is there any feasible way of grabbing all of the files off of the drive, unaltered, so I can keep an exact copy of it to work with, in case it might be helpful in future?


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Try *Roadkil's Raw Copy*.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Sorry once again for the delay. I've gotten two new identical HDDs to use, but I've still not yet decided how best to partition them, and that's something I should probably do before copying things over onto them. I also need to decide on a backup plan.

If I may ask for advice, is it better to install programs on the C drive that contains Windows, or on a separate hard drive instead?


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## DaJerk529 (Aug 2, 2008)

How to partition will depend on the size of the drives and what the intended use for each partition is. It's a great way of beginning to organize your drive. The drive you install your operating system on, I would split it at 50%, into two drives only. The second HDD, which you will partition after the installing the OS C: and D: can be partitioned into to as many drives you see fit. Again, consider the use of the drives. You can always go back later and add or delete partitions. Using a third party partitioning tool like Partition Magic makes it easy.

What to install in the C:? Whatever Windows OS needs only, like virus software, office, audio/video (optional) software. Later change the default location of "My Documents" (right click on folder, my properties, change target) to one of your partitioned drives as well. Programs you install, default file location shall be one of the other drives too. 

If one of the moderators of this forum disagree, please weigh in.


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## Muskrat (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, I'm back again. Thanks for the advice, DaJerk. It looks like no one disagreed with the advice on how to set up the HDDs in the time since your post.

Some more information:

The size of the two new HDDs I got and was trying to decide how to partition was 640GB per HDD.

I was hesitant about using a third party partitioning tool to add or delete partitions later on, due to reading about occasional problems with the system not booting correctly afterwards, and I've had more of that kind of problem than I would ideally prefer to have.

I haven't changed the location of "My Documents" before, but I've wanted to. I didn't actually realize it was possible. This is useful to know; thank you.

Fom the advice given, it looks like I should generally be installing essential things that the system needs, on the same partition as Windows; and non-essentials on another partition or drive.


So, while I still haven't finalized my partitioning, I came across another problem recently. Using the new HDD with a temporary installation of Windows XP since my last post, I've had another issue occur, similar to last time:

I had recently updated Java from a Beta version to a stable version. Later that day, I had some intermittent system freezes while running a Java web application (I do not know if the freezes were related to the application), then a BSOD which disappeared too quickly to note the details of. The intermittent freezes started happening again later that day with the same Java web application, but I quickly navigated away from the page and no BSOD occurred.

Some days later, I had a rather bad system freeze when clicking a link on a webpage to play an audio file (the exact same link worked just fine later that day). One by one, every window I had open stopped responding and turned white, and the mouse cursor intermittently froze in place. After a while, one Windows Explorer window unfroze, but right-clicking in it made it freeze again. I could not close any windows or open Task Manager. The system clock in the taskbar had also now been frozen for ten minutes, so I had to force a shutdown by holding the PC's power button on the front of the case.

Later that day, another almost identical freeze happened when using a Flash web application (again, I do not know the freezes were related to the application), with all the same symptoms as earlier that day. This time, I went to sleep and left the system to see if it would unfreeze. Some 3 or 4 hours later, the system rebooted: I am guessing a BSOD occurred. It seemed to boot up fine, so I shut it down normally and resumed sleeping.

When waking up today, I tried booting up again, only to receive a "hal.dll is missing or corrupt" error message. I rebooted, and this time the system reached the Windows loading screen but did not get any further, although the loading animation continued. I rebooted again, and the system successfully booted into Windows and properly displayed the desktop. However, although I could move the mouse, nothing would respond to my clicks nor my pressing keys. I could not click Start nor open Task Manager. Also, I have the taskbar set to auto-hide, which means it smoothly slides offscreen when not being used. The taskbar appeared unhidden, and rather than sliding offscreen, it did not move; it seemed frozen.

I forced a shutdown then booted again. "A disk read error occurred. Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart", so I did so.

This time, after the POST, an entirely black screen displayed. I switched off, inserted a floppy boot disk for XP and booted again. The system accessed the disk but the same entirely black screen appeared at the same point.

Next, I rebooted, entered the BIOS and selected "Load Optimal Defaults" before saving the changes. I also made sure the system was correctly detecting the correct HDD, and it seemed that it was. I booted and got nothing but a black screen with a flashing white cursor at the upper left corner, this time.


This situation all seems strikingly similar to what happened with my previous HDD, which is what I initially made this thread about.

I should note that I currently also have said old HDD connected, and I suspected the system might be trying to boot from that one for some reason, but I THINK it is not set to do so, since the time it loaded Windows today, I believe I saw all the correct icons on the desktop, indicating it booted from the correct HDD.

One more thing: This motherboard (ASRock AM2NF3-VSTA, Socket AM2)'s nVidia nForce drivers have always had issues installing on my system. Some times, the installer has completely frozen and not unfrozen and had to be forced to close; other times a BSOD occurred during installation or uninstallation.

Sorry for the lengthy post. I am quite troubled, and any general or specific advice from anyone with a bit of time to spare would be greatly appreciated.


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