# [SOLVED] RAM Problem



## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

Hello,

I recentally bought another 1gb stick of ram for my computer to bring it from 1gb (1 x 1gb) to 2gb (2 x 1gb). However when the new stick is inserted the computer wont boot. I did a bit of playing around and this is what I found.

Old ram: computer boots.
Old ram + new ram: wont boot
New ram: computer boots

When I say that it wont boot I mean that the fans all come on, and the power light comes on, but the computer doesn't beep to enter bios and the screen stays in standby etc.

This shows the the new ram does work.

I put the ram in the slots mentioned in the motherboard manual, 1st and 3rd slot. I also tried them in 1st and 2nd slots. Neither worked.

I recentally read the sticky thread here titled "IMPORTANT! Before you buy memory" and the bit about how model numbers now have to match was news to me and I'm wondering if that's my problem.

Old RAM:
Kingston ValueRAM 1gb DDR2-800 1.8V
KVR800D2N5/1G
*not sure what other numbers are needed so here are the ones on the sticker*
BTMP16B0703
9905316-055.A01LF
3224290-0604482
Assembled in Taiwan

New RAM:
Kingston ValueRAM 1gb DDR2-800 1.8V
KVR800D2N5/1G-SP
*not sure what other numbers are needed so here are the ones on the sticker*
BSMH1630676
9905316-001.C01LF
H471470-0446657
Assembled in China

Motherboard is a MSI P35 Neo

*[EDIT*
Just noticed that it puts my OS to the side there, this is on the computer running Windows XP SP2.


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Also forgot to mention that the KVR numbers above show that they are both the same speed (800mhz) the same DDR type (ddr2) and the same CAS latency (CL5) and both are the same capacity, they are also both non-ecc

I'm not sure what the SP means on the new stick.


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

So everyone else is stumped to then?


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## peterhuang913 (May 24, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Where did you buy the ram from?


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

The old ram was from a local online store back in december last year, and the new ram was from a local auction site a week or 2 ago


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## peterhuang913 (May 24, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Did you try to reset the BIOS?


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

hmm, no I didn't actually. Just to make sure - you want me to select "reset to default" in the main bios screen, or only in the screen which controls RAM settings?

Just in another note of trouble shooting, I just used the PSU calculator here http://web.aanet.com.au/SnooP/psucalc.php and my PSU was a good amount above the size reccomended.

*[EDIT]*
Or did you mean clearing cmos/bios by switching the jumper around
I don't want to do the wrong thing


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## peterhuang913 (May 24, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Reset to default I guess. Well, I wouldn't know about the PSU because you didn't mention any other specs.


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

ok well I'm going to go reset to default and try the ram again.


The list of everything plugged into the system is:
Intel Dual Core E2180
1gb DDR2-800 RAM
nVidia 7900GS 512mb
1 x 80gb Seagate Sata1
1 x 320gb Seagate Sata2
17" Acer LCD (not widescreen)
Logitech X-230 2.1 speakers
MSI P35 Neo Motherboard
DVD writer
420W Enermax noisetaker PSU
1 x 80 or 90mm case fan


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Didn't work.

I reset the bios to "failsafe default settings" and then set my boot order back to how I want it.

I tried the ram in several slot configurations (manual says slot 1 and 3)
o = old, n = new
[o][][n][]
[o][n][][]
[o][][][n]
[n][][o][]

the old ram is back in slot 1, new ram in it's container.

I did some more searching on model numbers and I still can't find anything about the -sp at the end of the new one's model number.


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## Stu_computer (Jul 7, 2005)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Which P35Neo do you have? There are 5 versions.

P35 Neo
P35 Neo Combo
P35 Neo2
P35 Neo2-FR / FIR
P35 Neo3

The reason I ask is due to different RAM configurations are used.

for instance using DDR2 ram:
P35 Neo slots a1 and b1
P35 Neo Combo slots a2 and b2 (slots a1/b1 are for DDR3)

http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=searchresult&keywords=P35+Neo&table=download


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Plain old "P35 Neo". The first setup I tried was A1:B1 (First slot and 3rd slot), after that I tried setups like the combo's A2:B2.


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## Stu_computer (Jul 7, 2005)

*Re: RAM Problem*



> I reset the bios to "failsafe default settings"


I see the problem, you didn't clear the CMOS. The original ram configuration is still in the CMOS table.

Follow mobo manual directions to clear CMOS.

1. unplug pc
2. move CMOS Jumper to clear data
3. install 2nd. stick of ram
4. return CMOS Jumper to keep data
5. plug pc in and start

the bios will now enumerate the new ram configuration into CMOS table. you can then go into bios and set for optimum settings.


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

I followed your instructions to reset the CMOS, I then put the new stick into the 3rd RAM slot (the one the motherboard manual says to use). The computer still wouldn't boot. I then reset it with 1 stick in and it worked again, so I then repeated the process with the 2 sticks in the first and second slots on the remote chance that it might work. It still didn't boot.

I then reset the CMOS again with just one stick in so I'm back where I started.

I also read your new thread "How to install RAM"

I gave as much info above as I could think of, but I'll go through your list.

*Visit the motherboard manufacturers' website.*
Although my current versions of BIOS and mobo drivers should work with what I'm doing because they are less than a year old, I did find slightly newer drivers which I'm going to install. MSI has some auto bios updater thing, so I can't see if there is a newer version of the bios until I run this, which I'll do tonight.

*Read the manual for your motherboard.*
All requirements are met

*It may also have details about which combinations of slots are to be used for a particular type of RAM.*
Slot 0 and slot 2 (first and 3rd) - This is what the manual says, tried this, didn't work
Slot 0 and slot 1 (first and 2nd) - Manual doesn't say this one but I tried it anyway.

*The manual will also have a section on the BIOS.*
I know my way around the bios, and the only change I've made was to the boot order.

*The manual will also have details about how to clear the CMOS. This you need to know.*
Followed your instructions for installing RAM with the CMOS jumper in the "clear" position mentioned in the motherboard manual

*Also check if your current Operating System will work with the new RAM*
Windows XP Home SP2 should be able to run 2 x 1gb DDR2-800, right?


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Ok, I've done the BIOS update to the latest version and it still doesn't make it to the POST screen. I also tried the RAM in the 2nd and 4th slot this time as well as first and 3rd.


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## Stu_computer (Jul 7, 2005)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Something for you to do while I get/read copy of the P35 Neo manual.

Download CPU-Z 1.47 and run it with the old stick of ram.

*CPU-Z*
Click [*About*] tab then *Registers Dump*
Name file: *oldStick.txt*
Then repeat the process for *newStick.txt*

Attach them in next post, I will review them for BIOS settings.


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Ok I've got them, looking through them myself I noticed a couple of differences in relation to RAM. txt files are attatched.

Old Stick

```
Memory Type		DDR2
Memory Size		1024 MBytes
Channels		Single
Memory Frequency	400.2 MHz (1:2)
[b]CAS#			5.0
RAS# to CAS#		5
RAS# Precharge		5[/b]
Cycle Time (tRAS)	18
Command Rate		2T
```
New Stick

```
Memory Type		DDR2
Memory Size		1024 MBytes
Channels		Single
Memory Frequency	400.1 MHz (1:2)
[b]CAS#			4.0
RAS# to CAS#		6
RAS# Precharge		6[/b]
Cycle Time (tRAS)	18
Command Rate		2T
```
Also the info for the new stick is missing a bunch of info which the old stick shows, these 2 sections which I'm about to paste are from the exact same place.

Old Stick

```
Manufacturer (ID)	Kingston (7F98000000000000)
Size			1024 MBytes
Max bandwidth		PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
[b]Part number		KTC1G-UDIMM
Serial number		672FA537
Manufacturing date	Week 35/Year 07[/b]
```
New Stick

```
Manufacturer (ID)	 (0000000000000000)
Size			1024 MBytes
Max bandwidth		PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
Part number
```
Along with different timings

Old stick

```
Timings table
Frequency (MHz)	        200     266     400	
CAS#			3.0	4.0	5.0	
RAS# to CAS# delay	3	4	5	
RAS# Precharge		3	4	5	
TRAS			9	12	18	
TRC			12	16	23
```
New Stick

```
Timings table
Frequency (MHz)         266     400	
CAS#			3.0	4.0	
RAS# to CAS# delay	4	6	
RAS# Precharge		4	6	
TRAS			12	18	
TRC			16	24
```


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

I just realised that I didn't do the whole CMOS jumper reset thing when putting the new stick in to make the txt file you asked for. Would this have any effect on the results?

Should I re do the new stick dump, but this time do the CMOS jumper thing while I install it?


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## Stu_computer (Jul 7, 2005)

*Re: RAM Problem*

That's okay it doesn't have any impact on what I was looking for, which was the SPD dump for each stick.

The SPD is a 256byte data list, (only the first 64 bytes have any relevancy to operation).
They are the values you see in the Timings tables for CAS, tRAS, etc... and more you don't see.

So, when the SPD is set to AUTO those values are used to control and monitor RAM. That's why a matched pair is important-matched means all those values are exactly the same on both sticks.

As you already suspect, these sticks don't match. Nor are they spec'd for a P35Neo.


But, let's see if they'll work together if we overide the SPD and set timings manually. 

1 stick in and get into bios...

STEP 1. Load Optimized Defaults *[F6]*

STEP 2. Disable these settings...(can be done while going through the sub-sections)
*Full Screen LOGO Display **
Quick Booting **
D.O.T. Control
Intel EIST
Spread Spectrum*

(**can be enabled after testing finished)


STEP 3. Enable these settings...(can be done while going through the sub-sections)
*IOAPIC Function
ACPI Function
Chipset Feature - HPET
Auto Disable DIMM/PCI Clk*

STEP 4. Sub-sections, verify (or set) the following values

Advanced BIOS Features
*MPS Table Version 1.4*

Frequency/Voltage Control
*FSB/Memory Ratio 1:1
Memory Voltage 1.9v*

Advance DRAM Configuration
*Configure DRAM Timing by SPD [Manual]
DRAM CAS# Latency 5.0
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay 6
DRAM RAS# Precharge 6 
DRAM RAS# Active to Precharge delay 18*


{I don't think you have the following settings in your bios, but if so...}
DRAM TRFC 38
DRAM TWR 12
DRAM TWTR 12
DRAM TRRD 12
DRAM TRTP 12

Save-n-Exit *[F10][ESC]*

STEP 6. Let it boot into windows then check with CPU-Z.
STEP 7. Shutdown, swap sticks, do step 6 again.

Should be same readings in CPU-Z now.

STEP 8. Shutdown, put in second stick and cross your fingers. Umm, uncross fingers and push start button.


---------------------------------------------------------


> The old ram was from a local online store back in december last year


Just curious, did this store list this stick as spec'd for a P35Neo?

http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/con...+Neo+Motherboard&distributor=0&submit1=Search


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Sorry for my long silence, I was really busy and decided to put this on hold.

I was able to change every setting except voltage, which I couldn't change away from auto, I'm not sure if there was some option in my bios somewhere to unlock this or not.

Both ram sticks gave the same specs in CPU-Z after the change. However with them in these 2 configurations they didn't work:

old-blank-new-blank
old-new-blank-blank

Would it be worth it to try the new stick in the first slot, or is that just being silly?

I'm not sure if the online store listed the old stick as being compatable with my mobo because the ram was a gift. I don't think it would have given that info though because I haven't seen any online stores here show compatability info (New Zealand)


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Just had a thought - Was I meant to reset the bios at any point while following your last instructions? (I didn't).

Also if we can't sort this out, would this be a viable alternative...

2 x 1gb DDR2-800 Kingston ValueRAM


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## Stu_computer (Jul 7, 2005)

*Re: RAM Problem*



> Just had a thought - Was I meant to reset the bios at any point while following your last instructions? (I didn't).


No, save and exit (F10) was fine, if reset cmos it would wipe it clean and you would have to do it again.

Check that mem voltage setting again, it is manually adjustable and that would be the next change I would have suggested-increasing the mem voltage incrementally.
-------------------------------------------------------------
how about a single 2GB stick? http://www.ascent.co.nz/search.aspx?T1=KVR667D2N5/2G&D1=2101
or http://www.ascent.co.nz/search.aspx?T1=CT25664AA667&D1=2101

These are the kits that Kingston lists for P35 neo:
KVR667D2N5K2/1G	(1GB 667MHz)
KVR667D2N5K2/2G	(2GB 667MHz)
KVR667D2N5K2/4G	(4GB 667MHz)
KVR800D2N6K2/1G	(1GB 800MHz)
KVR800D2N6K2/2G	(2GB 800MHz)
KVR800D2N6K2/4G	(4GB 800MHz)

These are the kits that Crucial lists for P35 neo:
CT2KIT12864AA667 (2GB DDR2-667)
CT2KIT25664AA667 (4GB DDR2-667)
CT2KIT12864AA800 (2GB DDR2-800)
CT2KIT25664AA800 (4GB DDR2-800)


ascent search example: CT2KIT12864AA800
Crucial 2x1GB, DDR2-800, PC2-6400, CL6, DIMM in-Stock:no $87.96


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

Hey, sorry for the long absence again.

I found how to increase my memory voltage (unless my old computer you don't push enter you bring up a sub menu, you use the plus and minus keys on the numpad to change it...I was trying the ones next to back space).

I bumped the memory voltage up to 1.9v and with both sticks it still wouldn't boot.

I also tried it with your settings except I set CL6 instead of CL5, still nothing.

And my last try was leaving everything of default but putting the voltage up to 1.9v again, still nothing.

Did you have anymore suggestions?


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## Faded_Mantis (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RAM Problem*

A solution has been found.

I recentally contacted Kingston tech support to see if they could solve the problem and after they got me to try things like unplugging extra HDD's etc they checked the security numbers etc which I gave them.

Seems that the chip I bought was pirated. I'm regretting trying to save a few dollars by getting it in an auction.



> I did some checking on what to do to resolve your issue. Upon consulting our Engineer and QA departments, it seems that the 2nd module (new stick) is not a Kingston product. From the info provided, some of the numbers provided are invalid, they do not exist in our system, and Security ID shows that its manufacture year is 2006, although KVR800D2N5/1G-SP was released in 2007. This must be what is contributing to the problem. I suggest for you to contact the place of purchase for this memory and insist on either a refund or replacement with authentic Kingston memory.


Thanks for all your help Stu_Computer, your advice and detailed insructions have been top notch.


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## Stu_computer (Jul 7, 2005)

glad to see you have it solved.

i do recall something written about it being from a different location but it didn't say anything about it being counterfeit.


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