# Corrupt HDD, auto repair loop, Bad MFT, Primary partition RAW, unable to fix



## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

Windows 8.1 on Toshiba laptop. It has been having frequent freeze ups and then progressed to where it would freeze immediately after completing boot up. This was not related to any new apps or updates or any thing. Tried the chkdsk, scannow etc. After that the pc started booting to "startup auto repair" which became unending repair loop. Recovery disk / media was unable to fix the problems. Even with the recovery media disks, it goes into the never ending repair loop. Have been unable to fix it. Took the HD out and to another PC (windows 10) via a USB adapter. Then ran "testdisk" and partition wizard etc. without making any changes to it. Present condition as I have diagnosed from all prior work: The primary partition 687GB of the total 750GB HD, that contained the windows, is showing as "RAW" and healthy, and not NTFS. All the other partitions (system, EFI system, recovery OEM) etc are healthy and NTFS. Also the Boot sector and boot sector backup are good but MFT and MFT mirror are both bad. TestDisk was unable to fix MFT.

I had copied all my data to an external HD before it all got so bad. So, I have essential stuff. Also I can see all the files on a scan with EASEUS data recovery Pro and will copy some of other things I may need. BUT what next:

Is the following the correct thing to do now: In the Disk manager, format the partition that is RAW to NTFS. Then using the Toshiba recovery disk (prepared from the PC when bought new), try to recover the computer. Since the system and recovery partitions are intact, the recovery should work? Right? After recovering, reinstall various apps and then copy the data files back to the pc. Any thing else I can do?
Thanks for the help.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

You should strongly consider replacing the hard drive. I've had high failure rates with Toshiba HDDs, and I'm guessing the Toshiba laptop does have a Toshiba drive inside. 

First, ascertain the health of the drive by running full diagnostic tests on it. If it fails the tests, replace it with a new one. To run diagnostic tests, use Seatools from a bootable cd or USB flash disk.

If it passes, clean it via DiskPart (deletes ALL partitions) and use the set of recovery media to restore it. The set of recovery media is self-contained and DOESN'T rely on any existing partitions on the drive. If this still results in boot loops, replace the HDD with a new one and restore using the set of recovery media.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

Thank you Stancestan. Since I have never done this before, some questions:

1. Is step seatool check before I format the drive or after? Would it be ok if I format only RAW partition and then try the recovery from the recovery CDs? While trying to fix things, I encountered two different systems, 1 Toshiba recovery which asked "this will erase the entire disk (or some thing to that effect), so I aborted the process there. The other was the windows repair/refresh/recovery and each of them ended in the never ending loop or "unable to do" or back to the original links of recovery buttons.
2. If the recovery disks are a self contained full system, then the "recovery partition" is not needed at all to restore the PC back to factory? That means a brand new hard drive can be used to recover from the DVDs? If that is correct, I will perhaps go that route since I have the HD already out any way.
3. I have two sets of recovery DVDs. Both were made on the affected laptop using the "make recovery CDs). One that was made when I bought the PC brand new (consists of 2 DVDs). The second set was made some years later and has 3 DVDs. I also have created the "windows 8.1 recovery media" from Microsoft's web site and is just 1 DVD. Which one should I use to do the recovery. Recovery in this scenario really means "reinstalling" the system as it was from the factory? Correct?
4. I do not have a "backup". I did "copy" the entire "users" folder which contains all the data files to another external hard drive (about 245GB). After reinstalling the system, should i just copy this to the "users" folder of the new drive or is there some procedure for restoring the data.
5. Is the next step to download / install all other apps that I had on old PC but those did not come from factory?
6. With the Easeus data recovery pro, one of the folders I found is "program data". I assume this contains data saved for each of the programs on the old computer. Should that be copied back. There is no point of copying back the folders of "program files" or "program files X86" since they won't run without a fresh install any way?
7. While writing all these questions, I am thinking, if I have to g through all this, should I just buy a brand new laptop and forget about all the recovery stuff. In that case, will I be just copying the "users" folder I have from old PC to the new PC and that is it?
Thank you very much for your help.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

ju1234 said:


> Thank you Stancestan. Since I have never done this before, some questions:
> 
> 1. Is step seatool check before I format the drive or after?


It doesn't really matter.



> Would it be ok if I format only RAW partition and then try the recovery from the recovery CDs?


It's okay, but it doesn't matter because the recovery process does the formatting as required.



> While trying to fix things, I encountered two different systems, 1 Toshiba recovery which asked "this will erase the entire disk (or some thing to that effect), so I aborted the process there. The other was the windows repair/refresh/recovery and each of them ended in the never ending loop or "unable to do" or back to the original links of recovery buttons.
> 2. If the recovery disks are a self contained full system, then the "recovery partition" is not needed at all to restore the PC back to factory?


No, it isn't.



> That means a brand new hard drive can be used to recover from the DVDs? If that is correct, I will perhaps go that route since I have the HD already out any way.


That's precisely correct.



> 3. I have two sets of recovery DVDs. Both were made on the affected laptop using the "make recovery CDs). One that was made when I bought the PC brand new (consists of 2 DVDs). The second set was made some years later and has 3 DVDs. I also have created the "windows 8.1 recovery media" from Microsoft's web site and is just 1 DVD. Which one should I use to do the recovery.


The first and second sets should all yield identical results because they were created using the non-changing contents of the OEM recovery partition. I find it odd that the first set consists of only two discs while the second set consists of 3. The contents of the OEM recovery partition should not have changed no matter how long the laptop was in use. The Windows 8.1 media is the cleanest option because it doesn't include any drivers and software that were included in the factory image. This means if you use the Windows 8.1 media instead, you will have to download required drivers from Toshiba and install them manually. This is my recommended method, but it means a little extra work for you. If the Windows 8.1 media was recently created, it would also contain a more recent (updated) image compared to what was loaded at the factory. This will significantly speed up the process of updating the system after a clean installation, compared to using the outdated factory image.



> Recovery in this scenario really means "reinstalling" the system as it was from the factory? Correct?


Yes. 



> 4. I do not have a "backup". I did "copy" the entire "users" folder which contains all the data files to another external hard drive (about 245GB). After reinstalling the system, should i just copy this to the "users" folder of the new drive or is there some procedure for restoring the data.


The Users folder contains profile folders for ALL user accounts that were on the system at the time of copying it. Each user account has its own profile folder inside the Users folder and inside each user's profile folder there is a set of subfolders containing the user's different kinds of data, e.g Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos, Desktop etc. You should copy the data folders from the user's profile folders to the newly 




> 5. Is the next step to download / install all other apps that I had on old PC but those did not come from factory?


 Yes



> 6. With the Easeus data recovery pro, one of the folders I found is "program data". I assume this contains data saved for each of the programs on the old computer. Should that be copied back. There is no point of copying back the folders of "program files" or "program files X86" since they won't run without a fresh install any way?


The ProgramData folder as well as those others should NOT be copied over to the fresh installation. Copying them over would negate the whole point of starting afresh.



> 7. While writing all these questions, I am thinking, if I have to g through all this, should I just buy a brand new laptop and forget about all the recovery stuff. In that case, will I be just copying the "users" folder I have from old PC to the new PC and that is it?
> Thank you very much for your help.


If buying a new one is not a problem, then by all means do it. My advice above about copying data from the Users folder applies to a new purchase as well.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

Thank you very much for the help. In the next few days I will accomplish all this. If I run into any problems, I will get back to you. Thank you.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

ju1234 said:


> Thank you very much for the help. In the next few days I will accomplish all this. If I run into any problems, I will get back to you. Thank you.


We'll be here when you do. You're welcome.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

CMOS Battery question: Since I have the laptop open, I want to go ahead and change the CR2032 motherboard battery also. All the CR2032 batteries I have seen, expensive brands or cheap ones, are labelled "Lithium" or "lithium battery". None of them give the chemistry on the packaging. They all also say for watch, calculator etc and none specify "for PC". Even the ones I looked at Fry's computer store were similar. My understanding is that these are not "rechargeable". Does the battery for the motherboard not have to be a rechargeable? Please advise.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

ju1234 said:


> CMOS Battery question: Since I have the laptop open, I want to go ahead and change the CR2032 motherboard battery also. All the CR2032 batteries I have seen, expensive brands or cheap ones, are labelled "Lithium" or "lithium battery". None of them give the chemistry on the packaging. They all also say for watch, calculator etc and none specify "for PC". Even the ones I looked at Fry's computer store were similar. My understanding is that these are not "rechargeable". Does the battery for the motherboard not have to be a rechargeable? Please advise.


No, it doesn't.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hard drive question:


The existing HDD is MQ01ABD075 which is 3GB/s rating or whatever that means. So I assume the SATA connector in the laptop is also 3GB. I am looking to replace it with ST1000LM035, a 6GB/s, read rate of 100 OR ST1000LM048 6GB/s but read rate max of 140. The 035 is supposed to be EOL but available and cheaper. I know the 6GB is backward compatible with 3GB SATA. Is there any advantage of getting 048 Vs 035? Will the read speed of 140 be more useful given that the SATA connector is still the old 3GB. Thanks.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

Both are 5,400 RPM mechanical hard drives, which are way too s-l-o-w. If possible, recommend replacing it with a SSD.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

If you opt for an SSD, be aware that a 1TB one will cost three times the cost of the T1000LM048, so if you need that much space, you're better off with the HDD, unless money is not a problem. The price for the T1000LM048 MAY get you a 256GB SSD at best.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

Thank you for suggesting the SSD. They are not bad in price at all. I see a Samsung 500GB for $72 and a 240Gb patriot just for $33. I also see that they have SATA III connection which means they will fit the existing 3GB SATA port. Question: Does the SSD speed of 550MB read and 500MB write actually run at that speed on the 3GB port? Are any adapters needed to fit the SSDs? Also the title of the SSD listings has terms like Nand, 3-D Nand, V-Nand, TLC etc. Are these all compatible? Is one better over another? 



If I go with SSD, is the procedure to reinstall/recover using the recovery disks same as you have previously described. Is there any special preparation of SSD before the actual recovery process?


Thank you very much.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

ju1234 said:


> Thank you for suggesting the SSD. They are not bad in price at all. I see a Samsung 500GB for $72 and a 240Gb patriot just for $33. I also see that they have SATA III connection which means they will fit the existing 3GB SATA port. Question: Does the SSD speed of 550MB read and 500MB write actually run at that speed on the 3GB port? Are any adapters needed to fit the SSDs? Also the title of the SSD listings has terms like Nand, 3-D Nand, V-Nand, TLC etc. Are these all compatible? Is one better over another?


SATA III (SATA revision 3.x) interface aka SATA 6Gb/s (gigabits, NOT gigabytes. b = bits while B = bytes. GB = gigabytes) supports up to 600MB/s (megabytes per second). On the other hand, SATA II (SATA revision 2.x) interface aka SATA 3Gb/s supports up to 300MB/s. While a SATA III SSD is backwards compatible with a SATA II port (both ports are identical), the SATA III SSD will not be able to run at speeds higher than 300MB/s, but it is still faster than an HDD. So, NO, the speed of 550/500 read/write speed won't be attainable on the SATA 3Gb/s port. No adapter is required because the SSD has the same dimensions as an HDD and fits right in (2.5" form factor). Nand is the technology used to make the non-volatile flash memory that SSDs use. 3D Nand is more or less the same as V-Nand. It actually is 3D V-Nand if I'm not mistaken and its the latest technology in use in the making of SSDs. It is the best as at today and is responsible for the increasing capacities, speeds and reduced cost of SSDs, compared to the earlier ones such as TLC. They are all compatible. In fact, your computer doesn't care about whether the SSD has TLC or V-Nand flash memory inside, just the way it doesn't care about whether the HDD has one or more spinning platters inside. What it cares about is the capacity and SATA interface of course.




> If I go with SSD, is the procedure to reinstall/recover using the recovery disks same as you have previously described. Is there any special preparation of SSD before the actual recovery process?
> 
> 
> Thank you very much.


The procedure is the same. No, you don't need to prepare the SSD in any way. Once the SSD is installed and detected in BIOS setup, access to it will be the same as to an HDD, i.e through SATA. However, there have been reported cases of SSDs not getting detected by some environments until it has been initialized. If that turns out to be the case, we'll advise accordingly.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

*Re:worked, need further help*

OK. I installed a 240Gb SSD, did recovery with the DVDs. It went through all the steps, reboot worked from the SSD. Thank you.


I need following further help:


The SSD now has the following partitions: Recovery partition 1GB, EFI partition 100MB, Recovery partition 957MB, all these show 100% free and have no drive letter in front of it. C: is labelled "boot, page file, crash dump, primary" is 213GB and 89% free. 



These partitions seem to be similar to the partitions on the original HDD. So, I am assuming the install process has created the recovery partition etc and I do not need to move/copy that over from original HDD. Right?



THE TEDIOUS PART OF REINSTALLING ALL THE APPS and data. Questions regarding that:


As I mentioned in my original post, I had copied my "users" folder to an external HDD, I will call it X, about 250Gb, prior to going bad. Big portion of this is photos, videos, music etc in my custom folders on desktop (I don't normally keep them in "documents" folder) and I plan to copy those to DVDs and to a spare external HDD. The default folders for these items were in fact empty. The folders other than existing photos, videos, music, I want to copy back to the new SSD. Anything I should or not do in that process?



1. I scanned the old HDD with EASEUS. It appears that all I need to salvage is in "users" folder only. Are there any other folders that normally contain any data?
2. You already advised not to copy the folders "Program files, program files X86, Program data". I should recover those by downloading / installing each app fresh? OR
3. My user folder has "my old desktop layout" in it which has all the shortcut icons of programs. Is it safe if I copy the "desktop" folder so I would see all the icons that will help me install each program. I assume all the programs are normally installed in the "program files" folder. So, there are likely no programs residing on my old desktop folder?


Any other tips at this point?


Thank you again.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

*Re: worked, need further help*



ju1234 said:


> OK. I installed a 240Gb SSD, did recovery with the DVDs. It went through all the steps, reboot worked from the SSD. Thank you.
> 
> 
> I need following further help:
> ...


Right.





> THE TEDIOUS PART OF REINSTALLING ALL THE APPS and data. Questions regarding that:
> 
> 
> As I mentioned in my original post, I had copied my "users" folder to an external HDD, I will call it X, about 250Gb, prior to going bad. Big portion of this is photos, videos, music etc in my custom folders on desktop (I don't normally keep them in "documents" folder) and I plan to copy those to DVDs and to a spare external HDD. The default folders for these items were in fact empty. The folders other than existing photos, videos, music, I want to copy back to the new SSD. Anything I should or not do in that process?


Nothing, except copy them over to a location of your choosing.





> 1. I scanned the old HDD with EASEUS. It appears that all I need to salvage is in "users" folder only. Are there any other folders that normally contain any data?


You should focus on data that YOU saved in known locations. If you use certain programs that store data in other locations, for example at the root of the drive, you would be aware of them and would export or backup that data as required.



> 2. You already advised not to copy the folders "Program files, program files X86, Program data". I should recover those by downloading / installing each app fresh? OR
> 3. My user folder has "my old desktop layout" in it which has all the shortcut icons of programs. Is it safe if I copy the "desktop" folder so I would see all the icons that will help me install each program. I assume all the programs are normally installed in the "program files" folder. So, there are likely no programs residing on my old desktop folder?


Nothing will break if you copy over the desktop shortcuts of non-existent programs, so YES, it is safe to copy them over as references to what programs you should reinstall. Now that you've switched to an SSD, space is limited and you may wanna install ONLY those programs that you need. You don't have to reinstall everything that was there before the drive change. There is no point in installing programs that you hardly used. It's only you who can best tell what you need to install since you'd have a use for it.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

Thank you very much. I am also doing data recovery from old HDD. I will perhaps save some of those folders also some place, just in case I am missing some thing in my saved "users".


Thanks.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hello Stancestans, Thanks for all the help you have given so far.


I ran into one more issue.


Before I copy back my data to the new SSD, I thought I should create a restore point. When I went to create it, the system said "system protection is off". In the system properties, under protection settings, 3 items are listed: TI10693600D (C (System), there is a blue hard drive looking icon in front of it. This was set to OFF. Second and third have a folder icon in front of it. The second item is RECOVERY and is OFF. The third item is the same number as first TI10693600D (C (missing) and is ON. What do they mean?


I turned the first item to ON and no change to 2nd and 3rd.


After that I was able to create a restore point. Thanks.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

ju1234 said:


> Hello Stancestans, Thanks for all the help you have given so far.
> 
> 
> I ran into one more issue.
> ...


Ignore them, they are probably references to non-existent volume shadows. What matters is that System Restore is turned on and working as it should on drive C. Word of advice, do not rely solely on System Restore as a disaster recovery strategy. There are scenarios that System Restore just won't cut it. You should strongly consider keeping a system image backup on a separate drive, preferably external. You can use the inbuilt Backup functionality on Windows or use third-party (recommended) solutions such as Macrium Reflect Free. Such a backup is way more reliable than the old set of recovery discs. They're old in the sense that they contain an outdated system image that DOES NOT contain updates, installed programs and settings, so even if you make fresh copies of them every few weeks before they get a chance to get scratches or become unreadable, they would still contain an outdated backup image. Think of it this way; if you had made a system image backup a week or two before this problem had occurred, that image would have restored your system to exactly how it was at the time of making that backup. You wouldn't have had to reinstall all the programs or reconfigure things to how you had set them up. You would have simply restored that backup onto the new SSD in no time and be up and running as if nothing had happened to the system.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

Thank you again. Yes, in future, I will make sure I do frequent back ups.


While recovering the files from the affected HDD, in the "users" folder, I see a lot of files of JSON, ntuser, regtrans, LIC, DAT type, many files with names of long long numbers. Most are less than 30KB in size. Can those be deleted?


One of the files is "thumbs". Can that be deleted?


Same question for the data "users" folder I had copied to external hard drive before corruption. Thanks.


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## ju1234 (Mar 10, 2014)

Another question in line with my last post: While looking through the recovered folders, there are folders called "lost files". Another folder is "RAW Files". There are many sub-folders in it and then many thousands of files in them. There are some photos in the JPEG folder that are familiar, most of the stuff in them is mostly garbled. In my situation where the problem was only drive turning RAW, I suppose these files perhaps represent intentionally deleted files in the past that have been over-written. Is there an easy way of figuring out which files are good files. 



Since I have recovered the most recent file structure, I feel that all the above mentioned folders perhaps represent old data that has been deleted over the years.


Is there a compare utility that can find the good files from the RAW files compared to the current good file tree?


Thanks.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

ju1234 said:


> Thank you again. Yes, in future, I will make sure I do frequent back ups.
> 
> 
> While recovering the files from the affected HDD, in the "users" folder, I see a lot of files of JSON, ntuser, regtrans, LIC, DAT type, many files with names of long long numbers. Most are less than 30KB in size. Can those be deleted?
> ...


Yes, those can be deleted. Perhaps I wasn't clear before. My advice still stands; ANY files or folders that YOU did not save in a known location has no relevance now. Windows and other programs create thousands of files including inside the Users folders. Now that you've restored the system, those files will be created as you install and use Windows and programs. The old ones are of no value to you or the new installation, so I repeat, focus on data that YOU saved in known locations. If I'm not mistaken, you had already copied over the Users folder to an external drive before the corruption occurred, so what else is it that you wish to recover from the corrupt drive? If you had saved new data onto the old hdd AFTER copying the Users folder, then focus on recovering that new data, which you surely would remember where you'd saved them since you used a custom location and not the default user data folders.



ju1234 said:


> Another question in line with my last post: While looking through the recovered folders, there are folders called "lost files". Another folder is "RAW Files". There are many sub-folders in it and then many thousands of files in them. There are some photos in the JPEG folder that are familiar, most of the stuff in them is mostly garbled. In my situation where the problem was only drive turning RAW, I suppose these files perhaps represent intentionally deleted files in the past that have been over-written. Is there an easy way of figuring out which files are good files.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know not of any such utility. All I can suggest is to recover only those files that are in good condition. The recovery program should be showing you the status of the found files, but if it doesn't, you can try a different one which does, such as Recuva.


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