# Advice needed on 4 Year Old Build



## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Greetings TSF!

A little over 4 years ago in June of '10 the advice I got here led me to my first complete (and successful I might add!) gaming PC build. It's been an awesome four years, but now I'm considering an upgrade. However that's also one of my questions - should I now, should I wait, or should I at all? First the build:

*Tower:* Coolermaster HAF 932 Full tower case
*Power:* 1000W Corsair HX series Modular PSU
*MOBO:* ASUS P6T Deluxe Motherboard V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX
*Processor:* Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield Quad-Core 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W
*HDD's:* 2 x 750 GB WD HD's
*MEM:* CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
*Video:* nVidia GTX 670 ~4GB vram (upgraded from original Fermi 480)
*OS:* Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
*Disk:* Generic Sony DVD drive
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*Notes on this build.* It is a little OC'ed. I used standard tools such as CPUz to monitor, but I use an Asus program called EPU-6 engine to software OC my CPU from 2.8 to 3.2 ghz. I had it running at 3.5 at one point, but an older video card fried a vram chip during this time, so I got paranoid and left it at 3.2. The system has been running at 3.2 stable for 2 years.

I also run with some of the more common CPU BIOS features OFF, such as Hyperthreading, to keep overall use and heat down for the CPU. I also use a 3rd Party program called "Throttlestop" to keep Windows from throttling back my CPU speeds during gaming.
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*So, what I want is as follows:*

CPU and by extension MOBO upgrade, and more than likely a memory upgrade to go with it. All in all, 3 items. I'd like at least 3.5 ghz stock from the CPU. I'm not really picky about MOBO features, just plenty of SATA's, 6+ ram slots, dont really care about USB 3. Price cap is going to be $500 with sensible overage leeway. A new CPU cooler is not included in the price cap.

I am not looking to upgrade THIS WEEK, but would prefer to do so by the end of this calendar year. Also I have heard that there is "maybe" a new Intel chip on the way by the end of 2014, and want to take advantage of potential pricing fluctuations on current model chips.

*
Questions:*

I believe that a CPU/MOBO swap out is possible under Win 7 64, yes? Does the OEM matter to that effect?

I also believe that with my most demanding gaming (Planetside 2, ESO, etc) that my older CPU and MOBO are the current bottlenecks - is this the case?

Any specific suggestions (I use New Egg mostly) on hardware? I generally prefer Asus/EGA/Intel brands in various combinations.

Thanks in advance for any advice :thumb:


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

A memory, CPU and motherboard upgrade is what you would be looking at. The rest can remain. I would maybe look at a new GPU as well.

It should be noted that DDR4 memory is started to make its way into the market and I would expect by early next year for it to arrive but rumors have it that it will be VERY expensive.

You will need to reinstall Windows 7 but that is all.

For less then $500:

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL - Newegg.com

Intel Core i5-4670K Haswell Quad-Core 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I54670K - Newegg.com

GIGABYTE GA-G1.Sniper Z97 LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155 and AMD FM1/FM2/AM3+ - Newegg.com


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Masterchiefxx17 said:


> A memory, CPU and motherboard upgrade is what you would be looking at. The rest can remain. I would maybe look at a new GPU as well.
> 
> It should be noted that DDR4 memory is started to make its way into the market and I would expect by early next year for it to arrive but rumors have it that it will be VERY expensive.
> 
> You will need to reinstall Windows 7 but that is all.


I upgraded the GPU about 1.5 years ago - is it a lagging factor at all?

I run 6GB of memory now, and with 7x64 I get about 4.5-5 useful GB...what would be a good cap for memory?

Re-install Win 7? Please explain, I was under the impression that without a HD change you could simply plug-n-play and update drivers and you are good to go - I thought this was a Windows 7 feature. Do you mean a re-detect or a complete wipe of all partitions and reinstall?


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Also,

on the CPU choice, I browsed and compared the one you suggested and a few others in the i5-7 1150 Haswell range and they go from $339 on down. The highest was the i7 4790K @ $339, with only the 8mb cache (over 6mb) and a "turbo mode boost" feature that puts the clock speed up in the 4ghz range. Would the extra 2mb cache be worth it, and what's up with the "turbo mode" on these chips? Also the "is it worth it" question applies again. I know very little about this series of CPUs & all their quirks and features.  Thx :smile:


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

joeltt1 said:


> I upgraded the GPU about 1.5 years ago - is it a lagging factor at all?
> 
> 
> > A GTX 670 is still a great card and is only last generation's model. You would only upgrade it if you thought you wouldn't do more upgrades until four more years.
> ...


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I must respectfully disagree and suggest you disable Turbo Boost for best possible results as it raised temps too much and enable speed stepping instead for better stability.


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## Phantowm (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree with Mr Rich.
Overclocking requires decent power and therefore you need a good PSU.
There is a risk the temperature can get really high and thus overheat (may even damage the motherboard).
Although some companies overclock their CPUs standard, you'll need really good cooling. Also it may even *shorten* the life of the processor since you are generally forcing it to give more power and heat than it usually does.
I honestly prefer stability over power/efficiency, because let's be honest here - You will not get a significant performance boost. opcorn:

In conclusion, you are risking too much. But hey who am I to tell you what to do, you seem to have some experience with it. :whistling:


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Masterchiefxx17 said:


> A memory, CPU and motherboard upgrade is what you would be looking at. The rest can remain. I would maybe look at a new GPU as well.
> 
> It should be noted that DDR4 memory is started to make its way into the market and I would expect by early next year for it to arrive but rumors have it that it will be VERY expensive.
> 
> ...


Hello I am back again!

So in "camping out" so to speak for Black Friday, and New Eggs 4 day sale, I've been watching the CPU/Mobo/Mem/cooler combo you suggested. With rebates and combo discounts its now at ~$465 -- awesome!.

My only remaining question is: For the mobo & mem kit you suggested, I could buy another of the same exact mem kit (~$54) and have all 4 sticks of memory to give me 16GB...or should I just go with a different 2x8 GB pack?

I was thinking about this one:
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL10D-16GBXL - Newegg.com

Breaks the bank only by a little. Good alternative?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I would go with the 16 Gb ram, its worth it.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Yes, that's much better! Do the 2 x 8GB instead.

Also you can save more money by getting this unit:

Intel Core i5-4690K Haswell Refresh Quad-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 Desktop Processor BX80646I54690K - Newegg.com - Newegg.com


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

you will have to purchase a new copy of win7 oem. you can never transfer system builders oem to another motherboard or computer when upgrading.


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

sobeit said:


> you will have to purchase a new copy of win7 oem. you can never transfer system builders oem to another motherboard or computer when upgrading.


Ive been told otherwise. I've also re-installed this copy of Win7x64 before. Can anyone else confirm?

If your mobo goes kaput, I wouldnt image MS would require this.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

You cannot use a OS that came from Dell or HP or Toshiba on your new machine.

If you own a copy of Windows 7, then you can only use it on one PC. Not both!


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

joeltt1 said:


> Ive been told otherwise. I've also re-installed this copy of Win7x64 before. Can anyone else confirm?
> 
> If your mobo goes kaput, I wouldnt image MS would require this.


you been told wrong. read your license! If you used your system builders oem before you have an illegal copy installed per microsofts eula. 

If the mother board goes kaput, you must replace it with the same motherboard in order to reuse oem per microsofts eula.


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Masterchiefxx17 said:


> You cannot use a OS that came from Dell or HP or Toshiba on your new machine.
> 
> If you own a copy of Windows 7, then you can only use it on one PC. Not both!


Right! Thanks what I thought. I bought a copy of Win7x64 OEM off of New Egg in 2010. This is what is on my machine currently, so I'll just do a re-install when I change out the mobo (will keep the same HDD's)


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

joeltt1 said:


> Right! Thanks what I thought. I bought a copy of Win7x64 OEM off of New Egg in 2010. This is what is on my machine currently, so I'll just do a re-install when I change out the mobo (will keep the same HDD's)


oh I see, you are only going to accept the info you agree with, not the facts. The fact is, You will have an illegal install. READ YOUR EULA


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

sobeit said:


> oh I see, you are only going to accept the info you agree with, not the facts. The fact is, You will have an illegal install. READ YOUR EULA


Or maybe I will accept what someone from the MICROSOFT support team says?


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

Masterchiefxx17 said:


> You cannot use a OS that came from Dell or HP or Toshiba on your new machine.
> 
> If you own a copy of Windows 7, then you can only use it on one PC. Not both!



only if it is a full retail version, not system builders oem.


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

joeltt1 said:


> Or maybe I will accept what someone from the MICROSOFT support team says?


READ your EULA.


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

from microsoft

OEM System Builders ? - Microsoft Community

Q. Can a PC with an OEM Windows operating system have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?
A. Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer—except the motherboard—and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the license of new operating system software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do not need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC as long as the replacement motherboard is the same make/model or the same manufacturer's 

more info

http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/license-and-media-matrix.png
Differences Between Retail, OEM, System Builder, Volume Licensing, Full or Upgrade License for Windows Â« My Digital Life
Windows 7 OEM license policy - Microsoft Community
Licensing FAQ


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Masterchief - any thoughts on this?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

sobeit said:


> from microsoft
> 
> OEM System Builders ? - Microsoft Community
> 
> ...


 
You are correct in the sense that this is for OEM systems. Prebuilt machines from Dell, HP, Toshiba, Asus, etc.. When you buy a full non-attached copy of Windows the rules differ.

If the license was bought from Newegg as the installation and CD, not with a machine, you own the installation key.

The installation key can be installed on one PC at a time. As long as the previous machine is put into decommission and the new machine is used with that old key I believe it is legal.

The motherboard claim does not apply as the manufacturer did not provide the user with the operating system.


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

Masterchiefxx17 said:


> You are correct in the sense that this is for OEM systems. Prebuilt machines from Dell, HP, Toshiba, Asus, etc.. When you buy a full non-attached copy of Windows the rules differ.
> 
> If the license was bought from Newegg as the installation and CD, not with a machine, you own the installation key.
> 
> ...


it is tied to the first machine (motherboard) it is installed in. read my links since they pertained to system builders oem not manufacturers.

as far as newegg. this is from their website 



> Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user support for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another computer once it is installed.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ESTMATCH&Description=win7+oem&N=-1&isNodeId=1


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

sobeit said:


> it is tied to the first machine (motherboard) it is installed in. read my links since they pertained to system builders oem not manufacturers.


Some Legal-ese here...



> You shouldn't have a problem replacing any parts other then the motherboard, although if you replace most of the computers parts you may need to reactivate. If you replace the motherboard you will need to reactivate, which (according to some here) you can do. However there is also some OEM documentation (as Carey posted above) stating that replacing the motherboard for reasons other then defect creates a new computer and the OEM license is no longer valid.
> 
> Many posts here say you can replace the motherboard, many others say you can't. *Some of the confusion is because the OEM EULA doesn't specifically say replacing the motherboard creates a new computer, that language comes from a FAQ page about the OEM license - and a FAQ page is not part of the EULA.*
> 
> ...


The EULA does not specifically define what "constitutes a PC?". The FAQ does, however, the FAQ is NOT legally part of the EULA, as there is no "Do you accept the terms of this 'FAQ'."

In addition, I would argue but just in the general sense that the Motherboard is NOT the "heart" of the PC, although it is a very vital component. I would contend that it is the data. For example in my case, the Full tower case, the fans, and most importantly the HDD's (although not the OS HD, at it will be wiped) will retain the data I have accrued since 2010. All the photos, games, and music I have legally acquired are what constitutes the "soul" of my PC. But then again this is just 'tall talk' in the interest of the topic at hand.

Thoughts, everyone?


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

joeltt1 said:


> Some Legal-ese here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


READ your EULA and it clearly states the motherboard constitutes a new computer .

Anyway I am tired of repeating myself to someone who cannot read the eula that came with his system builders oem. Do what you want. You have been told. This is my last post on this.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Hi, if you change the motherboard and it is not the exact same as the one it is replacing then you are deemed to have made a new computer as the bios and possibly the cpu will have changed, therefore the hdd will not be recognized with windows installed from the old set up, since the drivers and hardware will be different for the new set up.


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

joeten said:


> Hi, if you change the motherboard and it is not the exact same as the one it is replacing then you are deemed to have made a new computer as the bios and possibly the cpu will have changed, therefore the hdd will not be recognized with windows installed from the old set up, since the drivers and hardware will be different for the new set up.


Oh yes I know this. I'm wiping the HDD-1 which contains my current OS and a few other programs. My HDD-2 is the meat and contains all games, music, etc. Windows should just recognize it fine without any reformatting. While I was planning to de-activate, clean install, then re-activate all on my original HDD-1, I think I might pick up a small SSD just for the OS and swap space.

Also, a graphic from MS illustrating a key point in the OEM issue...
http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/60/34/001561/oem_licensing_2.jpg


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Please see this Transfer of OEM licenses it does not mean because you built a new system you can use the same license, so please do not read it as such.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Reinstalling will mean reinstalling all software also, documents will be available of course but programs need to be installed so because they have registry settings.


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Wrench97 said:


> Reinstalling will mean reinstalling all software also, documents will be available of course but programs need to be installed so because they have registry settings.


So just to be clear, the programs I have on a separate drive (that is, separate from the boot/OS drive) will have to be re-installed? I have actually re-installed this copy of Windows 7x64 before due to a write error on on of my HDD's, and I did not have to reinstall anything on the second disk. Is this similar?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Yes, even if the program is installed on a secondary disk, it will require a reinstall. There will be a missing registry key otherwise.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

> So just to be clear, the programs I have on a separate drive (that is, separate from the boot/OS drive) will have to be re-installed?


As long as they were not installed to the Program Files or (x86) folders, you should be good to go. However, you will have to rebuild your shortcuts and manually add them to the Start menu.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Many will also install needed .dll files to the Windows system32 directory also, so yes often reinstalling the program is needed.


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Hmm...sounds like it would be easier just to uninstall everything and just backup all my saves, movies, photos, and docs. New Egg has some good deals for the next day or so on 250-500 GB external HD's. Any recommendations on good back-up software? I would prefer free/3rd party.

Side note, what's the ideal size for a boot drive SSD? It will just be for the OS and swap/temp file space, and I'm considering either 64, 128 (current top pic), or 240 GB's. Thx again for all the advice.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

At least a 128, I've had 64's they fill up too quick.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Either 128 or 240 a 64 is too small and would run out of space quickly and the list here should provide something you can work with Best free backup software: 11 programs we recommend | News | TechRadar
the Easus one has been used here frequently.


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Ok so final summary...

1. Backup/transfer needed files to external HDD.
2. De-activate Windows 7x64 copy electronically
3. Remove old hardware
4. Install new hardware
5. Startup & format [wipe] new SSD, and 2 old 750 GB HDD's.
6. Re-install Win 7x64 on SSD.
7. Drivers, core software, etc etc.
8. Restore/transfer backups...back
9. If electronic activation of Win 7x64 succeeds...DONE.
10. If not, do it over the phone and/or possibly have to buy a new key...then DONE.

Did I miss anything? I'm nervous as I've only done 100% from scratch builds, not this Frankenstein non-sense :grin:


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Sounds good


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## joeltt1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Back again,

Just got my backup WD drive today, still researching on backing up and transfers, etc and I wanted to ask some procedural questions.

I plan on following the this linked plan for backup and transfer:
What to Back Up Before Clean Reinstall? Solved - Windows 7 Help Forums

Basically, it says:

- Clean up with Disk Cleaner
- Transfer user "stuff" with the "Windows Easy Transfer" utility.
- Manually move extra user folders
- Use WET to move everything back after reinstall.

How does this sound to you all?

Also, I use Steam, Origin, and Arc as my digital games services. All of my Arc and Origin games are online based, so I'm not worried about those getting wiped. All my Steam games are on a 2nd hard drive in my PC...I was NOT planning on re-formatting this drive as it is independent of the primary C drive and partition. Should I reformat this extra drive, anyways? I will still backup stuff like my iTunes music (which is on that 2nd HDD along with some Steam games that I don't care if they make it or not), but I can just un-"plug-n-play" it with my new setup, yes?


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Your choice, not sure I would fully trust WET.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

I like to do backups manually. As that way I know what I am moving and what not to move.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I am with Joe on this one I never use automatic software or any software that comes on a hard drive. I pick and choose what I backup and if you want a good program for it that is free, Karen's Replicator:

Karen's Replicator


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## mr_axe (Dec 9, 2014)

Its better otherwise your backup might end up not being so useful when you need it and it didn't backup anon standard folder


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