# Upgrading Current PC



## GaryUSC (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Tech Support Forum, I currently have a 4 year old Dell Dimension PC and I plan to refresh some of its components as well as recycling some existing parts to build an up-to-date machine that can run most of the current computer games smoothly at maximum settings.

*Old PC Specs:*
Dell Dimension, P4 3.3Ghz
3GB DDR2 533 Mhz RAM
XFX GeForce 8800GT, 533MB
650W PSU

*New Components*

CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202

Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131371

RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145221

Case - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133021

*Parts Recycled From Existing PC:*

Video Card - http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=P450-8830

PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005. Is 650W enough juice to power an Intel i7 CPU properly?

HDD - 150 GB internal SATA HDD for program files and 500GB external SATA HDD for media and other content files

And of course, my existing keyboard, mouse, sound card, speakers, DVD-ROM, and the monitor will all make their way to the new machine.

The primary reason for recycling some of the parts is because I am trying to stay below $1k on the current upgrade. I, for some unknown reasons, prefer Intel and Nvidia over AMD and ATI products. I don't plan on doing much multitasking with the new machine. It is mainly going to be a gaming PC as well as for web surfing, and watching movies. I do not plan on overclocking. I am only purchasing 3GB of RAM because I am staying with Windows XP for the time being. Finally, I live in Los Angeles, California.

Please comment or critique on my new machine. Are there any components that I should not recycle? On the planned purchases, are there choices that I should reconsider? Thank you very much.

Regards,
Gary


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Are you solid on your i7 decision? There are cheaper solutions with equal performance.
Have you looked at this thread?
http://www.techsupportforum.com/f24...-are-6-suggested-models-with-spec-367415.html


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## GaryUSC (Sep 25, 2008)

I have read the sticky post. I figure a new CPU is a 3 to 5 year investment, so I want to have a CPU and especially the mobo that won't be obsolete the next time I want to upgrade again.

Can you share with me what your arguments against my thinking please? Thanks.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The x58 i7 platform needs a lot of tweaking, tri-channel DDR3 has shown to have a lot of issues from recalled ram sticks to instability, if you want a stable good gaming PC the P45 E8500 DDR2 800 combo is hard to beat in cost and performance, Games run mainly on one or two cores and will for some time to come. In 3-5 years there most likely won't be any new CPU's to fit the rampage II board just like the Current Core Duo/Quads don't work on the early 775 boards,


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Expensive on a dollar to performance ratio & DDR3 RAM problems are my main issues with i7.
i5 is promising to be the better platform but it's too new to make any certain conclusions.
775 platform is still a very viable established performer and certainly upgradeable.
In the end, it's your money and your decision.


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## GaryUSC (Sep 25, 2008)

I see. So I shouldn't expect to keep the motherboard and just upgrade the CPU 5 years down the road even if I go with the i7/1366 platform. 

Wrench97, can you elaborate a little more on "P45 E8500 DDR2 800 combo" please? Are you referring to something like these?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145241

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131284


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

That would be what wrench 97 is referring to.
The E8400 is a better bang for buck choice.
The Asus rampage is way overkill. Any of these Asus boards would work fine.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16813131297,N82E16813131375,N82E16813131377


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## GaryUSC (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks, Tyree.

This may be a whole different topic, but I chose the rampage because I am keeping the option of going the SLI route open for future. These mobo's you recommended are Crossfire ready (which is for ATI). Is there an ASUS mobo out there that supports SLI without the mobo itself being an overkill for the CPU and RAM that I have selected?

Further, I have heard arguments before that using one good graphic card is always better than the dual graphic card solution (be it SLI or Crossfire). Can anyone comment on this? Thanks.


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

The P45 platform is still very powerful and will be viable for quite some time. My system:

Asus P5Q Pro (discontinued; closest comparison is Pro Turbo)
Pentium Dual Core E2200 2.2GHz overclocked at 3.15GHz (equivalent to ~E7500)
2x2GB OCZ Platinum DDR2 1066 
Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1GB

Can play Fallout 3, Batman: Arkham Asylum, LOTRO, and Left 4 Dead at the highest settings on a 1440x900 resolution with framerates that never dip below ~30fps (Fallout 3 is an exception because it's got some real CPU killer areas). The main bottleneck is my CPU, which is a first generation budget Core 2 Duo that I've overclocked to a ridiculous level. Replace it with an E8400 or E8500 and overclock _that_, and you've got something that isn't going to need to be replaced for a long time.


However, if you want the latest thing, I would go with Core i5 rather than Core i7. According to real-world benchmarks, an i7 920 gets less than a 2fps gain over the i5 750 on average, and the i7 975 (a $1000 CPU) only gets about 3-4fps more. The i5 750 gets about 3-5fps more than an E8400.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Your choice on the dual graphics cards but the cost to performance gain is minimal and certainly not worth the added expense of two cards plus a BIG wattage PSU).


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

On P45 and SLI:

SLI is a proprietary technology owned by Nvidia. With new motherboards with chipsets like Intel X58 and P55, Nvidia has licensed them to be able to use SLI. However, before that Nvidia only let SLI be used in boards with their chipsets, the nForce and SLI boards. Thus to use SLI you had to have an Nvidia motherboard. The problem with that is, Nvidia motherboards are buggy when used with Intel CPUs. When they work, they work great, occasionally better than Intel. When they don't work so great (which is common), they're a major PITA, with issues like random crashes, picky about what RAM can be used in them, much worse overclocking results than one would get with an Intel chipset, and more obscure problems. 


I just want to throw this out there. Brand preference over graphics cards is kinda stupid. You pick a graphics card that will have the most stability and most bang for the buck for your system. You don't base it on the endless "nvidia vs. ati" discussions out there on the intrawebs.


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## GaryUSC (Sep 25, 2008)

Your point is well taken, Phædrus2401.  I think I will stick to just one graphic card and not let the SLI vs Crossfire factor become a consideration for my mobo purchase decision.

When you say P45, are you referring to the Intel processor that has a 65 nm chipset or 45 nm chipset? The CPU I chose above has a 45nm chipset, which I believe is the next generation to the 65nm chipset? Thanks.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

P45 is the Mobo chipset.


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

P45 is the chipset that the motherboard has. P35, P43, P45, X48, P55, X58... The chipset determines the CPU socket, type of RAM, video card slot type, and a number of other things. Right now P45 motherboards are best for LGA775 CPUs (Core 2), since it supports the latest CPUs, including 45nm ones, supports up to 16GB DDR2 RAM, a 1333MHz bus, though most manufacturers advertise as up to 1600MHz, PCIe 2.0 x16 graphics (though Crossfire is limited to two slots at x8 bandwidth), and it usually is very nice for overclocking, if you get a board meant for it.

P55 is your only option for LGA1156 CPUs, and X58 is your only option for LGA1366.


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## GaryUSC (Sep 25, 2008)

So based on the advices above and from other threads on this forum, I have decided to go with the following components:

*Case:* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133021

*HDD:* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136283

*Memory:* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145241

*Motherboard:* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131297

*CPU:* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

I will be making the order later this evening if there are no other comments. Thanks again for everyone's help and input.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Good choices .


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Looks like a winner to me and I think you will be very pleased with it. Don't forget to do a bench test prior to assembling in the case to avoid problems.


1) Remove EVERYTHING from the case
2) Set the motherboard on a non conductive surface. The motherboard box is perfect for this. DO NOT PLACE THE MOTHERBOARD ON THE STATIC BAG! It can actually conduct electricity! We are going to try and assemble a running system outside of the case.
3) Install the CPU and heat sink. 
4) Install 1 stick of RAM.
5) Install the video card and attach the power supply connection(s) to the card if your card needs it.
6) Connect the monitor to the video card.
7) Connect the power supply to the motherboard with both the 24pin main ATX Power connection and the separate 4 or 8 pin power connection.
8) Connect power to the power supply.
9) Do NOT connect ANYTHING else. Make sure you have the power connector on the CPU fan connected.
10) Use a small screwdriver to momentarily short the power switch connector on the motherboard. Consult your motherboard manual to find which two pins connect to your case's power switch. Then touch both pins with a screwdriver to complete the circuit and boot the system.

If all is well, it should power up and you should get a display. Then assemble the parts into the case and try again. If the system now fails to boot, you have a short in the case and need to recheck your motherboard standoffs.

If the system does not boot after this process, then you most likely have a faulty component. You'll need to swap parts, start with the power supply, until you determine what is defective.


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## GaryUSC (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks. Back in the days when I used to build Pentium 100, we used to do a process called "burning in" the CPU prior to the actual installation of the machine. Do CPU's nowadays come pre burnt-in or do they just not require burn-in anymore?


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

With the 8800GT and TX650W that build should be a pretty competent gaming machine. It isn't top of the line, but all it needs to be smokin' is a GPU upgrade sometime in the future. Wait a few months for the prices on the Radeon 5800 series to drop some, and for the GeForce 300 cards to come out, and you'll have a ton of options.



Burn-in isn't really required, but some of us like to do something equivalent with extensive stress-testing, just to make sure everything is stable. Prime95 or OCCT are good stress test programs for the CPU, and memtest86+ is good for testing the memory.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I haven't done that since the Pentium II's came out, it not needed anymore.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

wrench97 said:


> I haven't done that since the Pentium II's came out, it not needed anymore.


Ditto, not a necessary step.


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