# GTA IV - med/high spec PC - low FPS



## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

so, look at my specs on the left to see my hardware. I just got GTA IV and installed it. I downloaded patches, and it's still got a really bad FPS. I can play Crysis on high settings with 25-30 FPS, 1280 res and 2xAA. On GTA IV, however, I've got it on 1024 res (when my screen can go 1680), med textures, low water, med reflections and high shadows. I've tried Vsync on and off and all the bars to do with distance are lower than the recommended for my system. Definition makes no difference to the FPS. As I get 60-70 FPS highest settings on COD4, I was expecting 25 FPS on the very maximum settings on GTA. However, even on those settings I've just shown (low/medium), I'm getting avg of 16/17 fps, and it's only ever gone to 25 when I'm in the safe house. This is all on a 9600 GT which does fine on other games such as COD4/5, crysis, FEAR 2, bioshock, GoW, and even FarCry 2.

Anyone know why this is happening/how to fix it?

Also, what's the best nVidia driver to get? I've heard the latest forceware's don't work well on GTA IV.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

The 9600 GT is the minimum for GTA 4 or more likely the 9800GT

put all the settings on the lowest and it might run well

I can only run GTA 4 on high not very high with my GTX 260


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

Is that how it will be with most future games as well? To be able to play high settings with all near future games above 30 FPS, what graphics card will I need. Will a 4850 pull it off?


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

also, I just put the textures, rendering, shadows - EVERYTHING on lowest, and put it on 800x600 resolution, so it looks worse than a PS2 game (I'm not exaggerating), and the FPS was STILL 17 FPS!!! I'm sure that's not right if I can run Crysis on high settings at 30 FPS.


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## RockmasteR (Aug 10, 2007)

did you apply all the patches available for the game?


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

I can play Crysis on very high with 8x AA and no lag.

what I do know is that Rockstar did a poor poor job porting the game to the PC thats why the requirements are ridiculous. and yea the graphics don't look the best but its not your fault.

before the update I was only able to play GTA 4 on medium settings with my GTX 260


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

would a 4850 pull it off better? If I get say 20 FPS now, what would I get with a 4850 on the same settings?


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## RockmasteR (Aug 10, 2007)

if you didn't apply the patches for the game, any other video card won't help much
the 9600 GT will be able to run it but as Mcninjaguy said, BAD ROCKSTAR!!!
they have released one or two patches for the game
get it from here :
http://www.rockstargames.com/support/IV/PC/patch/index.html


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks, I've installed the patch, but still get a low FPS. Will a HD4850 make an improvement?


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

it's things like this that make me want a 360 or PS3. Even on the highest settings the graphics look nowhere near as good as this:

YouTube - Grand Theft Auto IV

And the FPS is way lower.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

actually I think the PC version needs way too high of a high end PC but it looks better than what I've seen on a Xbox 360

xbox 360 = ATI X1900
MY PC GTX 260 (OC 20%) I WINS!


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## RockmasteR (Aug 10, 2007)

how many fps are you getting?
you can use fraps to know that
www.fraps.com
don't worry it won't slow down your game if you are not recording, I always use it


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

I'll log it properly whe nI get back my Xbox 360 controller I let my neighbour borrow

some thing around 20 lowest and usually around 30FPS

settings all on high
and the view distances nad those 4 options are defualt
V sync on
definition on


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

well on max settings I get like 10 FPS, and the graphics arent as good as the 360 ones, because:

1)Things only come into view about a road ahead (lights etc) - and distance is on max
2)shadows flicker
3)textures only load after they've came into view (before they were just grey)
4)Colours aren't as vibrant
5)Shadows aren't as realistic somehow

And the 360 can pull this off at 61 FPS (well that's the 360 games' average, maybe less but certainly more than PC). I'm not in favour of consoles (duhh, I got a gaming PC), I'd much rather play games like COD4 and FEAR 2 on PC because I get good FPS and graphics, but GTA IV for me, it seems, looks and plays worse on the PC.

Also, if I wanted a graphics card that would really boost my performance in games, from £100 to £150, what should I get? Don't link me to an American site because things are a lot cheaper over there. http://www.novatech.co.uk is a good UK site for PC prices.


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

Sorry for all the double posting, but I think I've found a GPU I might get (in a couple of months when I can afford it):

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?SAP-4870

I chose this when I was reading this thread:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/grap...cams/834684-would-480watt-psu-run-4870-a.html

As he has the same PSU as me, and around about the same system. Plus, the man that sold it me said my PSU would be good enough for 2 4850's in Xfire and if anything broke he would fix it under warranty. So, good deal? Would it make an improvement?


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

try getting the 4970 with 1 gb
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?SAP-48701


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

will the 1GB make much difference? £150 is really the maximum I want to spend. My parents already spent loads on my PC, I don't want them spending loads at my birthday.


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## RockmasteR (Aug 10, 2007)

the memory helps you with the textures
my Geforce 9400 comes with 1 gig of Vram
I can set the textures details of any game at maximum even Crysis!
like now, I'm playing Far Cry 2, I set the Shader at Very High, Bloom and HDR on, textures very high, and all the other settings on medium

but getting a 512 Mb card will do just fine...


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

OK, if I can get the 1GB I will. Will the extra 0.5GB make much of a difference to what PSU I need rather than the 512MB one? Also, what's the thing in the Graphics options to do with memory at the bottom? Like it goes red if you set it too high, and mines only about 400MB. Is that video memory, or RAM? If it's RAM it's way too low, because I have 3.2GB.


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## RockmasteR (Aug 10, 2007)

Video Memory is the same as Video RAM

it has nothing to do with the System RAM

sometimes there are some cards that uses the Turbo Cache technology to take some of the system RAM and add it to the video memory
even high end cards have that feature but it's rarely use it cause they come equipped with good amount of Video RAM or Memory


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

And by the textures, do you mean they will load quicker with a 1GB 4870? Could you explain how it would improve the graphical experience please? (I don't know a lot about this side of things).


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

The textures are stored in VRAM, so if you have a 1gb graphics card, higher quality textures (which need more memory) can be used. The load speed is not affected by the amount of VRAM, just the image quality.

There is a benchmark button in the GTA4 graphics options that calculates the highest graphics settings you can use. It shows how much VRAM is used whenever you make any changes to textures, antialiasing, shadows, etc.

btw, I play GTA4 at 1440x900 on mostly maximum settings using a 512mb 8800GT, good framerates with no lag. The only settings I don't have on maximum make very little difference to the image quality, so they don't need to be high anyway.


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

may as well post this in an existing thread. so here goes:

How do you install a graphics card? Can you tell me in plain English because other sites go into all jargon I don't fully understand. When I get my 4870, so far, this is what I think I've got to do:

1) uninstall nVidia drivers
2) Take out current 9600 GT
3) Plug 4870 into motherboard
4) Plug PSU into 4870
5) ?????
6) Turn on, install drivers

So, is that it? What else do I need to plug into it (step 5)?


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

After plugging the new card into the motherboard and the power cable into the card, plug the monitor cable into the card, then turn the computer on and keep tapping F8 until the Advanced Options menu appears. Select VGA Mode (640x480, 16 colors). When Windows has finished loading, disable your antivirus and install the new driver. Reboot to complete.


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks, and sorry for my ignorance, but what is the monitor cable? Where does it come from, where is it? I have a HDMI and VGA cable from my screen to my tower, but that just plugs into my motherboard I think (Or does it actually plug into my GPU?). Also, what's all this stuff when people say "8 pin/6 pin PCIe connector".


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## Tiber Septim (Feb 9, 2006)

The monitor cable is the cable that connects your monitor to your tower. the other cable connected to your monitor is just a power cable.

Do you have two cables from your tower to your monitor? There should only be one.









See the two ports on either side there? That's a DVI port. So you should have a DVI to DVI/VGA/HDMI cable depending on your monitor.

The 8pin/6pin things people are talking about are the Supplementary Power Connectors. There should be cables connecting your Power supply to your Video card. Without this supplementary power, the card will not be able to perform properly as the PCIe slot on the motherboard cannot supply the neccesary amount of power that the card requires.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

The monitor cable goes from the monitor to the graphics card, not the motherboard.

The "8 pin/6 pin PCIe connector" is the power connector that goes from the PSU to the graphics card. You can remove the extra 2 pins if not required. Older cards just need 1 of these power cables, but some newer cards need 2. Your HD4870 uses 2 6-pin PCIE connectors from the PSU.

Did your card come with a manual? It should have illustrated instructions on how to connect the PCIE power cables to the card.


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

I haven't got it yet, I just want to know whether I should pay an extra £30 for someone to install it for me. OK, so, All I do is plug the HDMI cable I've got plugged into my tower now, into the tower when the 4870 is installed? (By plugging it into the tower, it is in turn plugging it into the 4870). And then will the 4870: http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?SAP-4870 - come with the connectors I need to plug it into my PSU, or will they already be in there, connected to my 9600 GT? And then I plug those in, boot into VGA mode, install drivers and reboot?


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

1. Uninstall your current graphics driver.
2. Switch off the computer and remove the 9600GT card.
3. Plug the HD4870 card into the PCIE slot.
4. Plug the two 6-pin PCIE power connectors from the PSU into the HD4870.
5. Plug the cable from the monitor into one of the HD4870's DVI slots at the back of your tower.
6. Turn the computer on and keep tapping F8 until the Advanced Options menu appears. Select VGA Mode.
7. When Windows has finished loading, disable your antivirus and install the new driver.
8. Reboot.
9. Go to Start > Control Panel > Display > Settings tab to set the resolution and colors, and open the ATI control panel for more advanced options.


What make/model and total watts is your PSU? If it's a good quality one, it will have the 6/8-pin PCIE power cables. If not, you can upgrade to a more suitable one or use an adapter cable (*link*).


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

OK sounds easy now, I always imagined it to be very laborous. Here is my PSU:

http://www.xcase.co.uk/p/479053/x-power-gtx-gamer-psu--green-led-480-watt-sli-and-crossfire-.html

It says about the connectors at the bottom of the page. Does it have everything I need?


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

The $30 X-Power 480W is too weak for a high-end card like the HD4870. You need something like the *Corsair 650W* which has 52A/+12V and 2x6pin PCIE connectors for $70


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

hmm. I was reading this thread. Once they'd done the math they figured it will probably handle it:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/grap...cams/834684-would-480watt-psu-run-4870-a.html

He's got basically the same system as me. Also, the man that sold me it said the PSU would run 2 4850s in Xfire, and if anything broke he would fix it. So if anything does go wrong he'll be liable, and fix it in a matter of days.

[edit]
Would you be able to do the math, considering my CPU resource usage etc, and figure out if there would be enough power for a 4870, considering my CPU is only at 2,9GHz


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Power Supplies Certified for Single Card Operation by ATI/AMD:
*http://ati.amd.com/products/certified/powersupplies.html#pstop*

They list dozens of PSUs, but no X-Power ones, and only 3 are below 500W.

You can risk the 480W XPower, but keep an eye on your temperatures and voltages during fullscreen gameplay to make sure they are within the safe range. If you notice any artifacts, glitches or lag while playing, the PSU should be prime suspect.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

why would the minimum PSU do for a high end system, a lot of people will insisti ts ok. What we're trying to suggest is to get a system that is really stable for years of fun and enjoyment. I really think you should get a corsair 650w


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

well I will when I can. If I get the graphics card, I'll only be able to get a PSU at Christmas or later. I'm not paying for all this, my parents are (although I always try to pay them back). They've gave £400 to my sister for repeated driving tests she keeps failing, so they might get me my birthday present early. Do I need a program like everest to measure my temps? If so, how do you do so, because I remember DLing it ages a go and not being able to figure out a simple way of seeing the temperature.

[edit]
can you also look at this thread please:

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f24/9600-gt-sli-vs-hd4870-358531.html

If 2 9600s are as good as a 4870, will a PSU handle 2 9600s better than a 4870? Because I specifically asked the man for a PSU above 600 W that can handle 2 4850s. When he gave me this, he assured me it would be good enough for 2 4850s, or 2 9600 GTs, and any problems he would fix under his 3 year warranty.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

I don't know if the XPower 480W will last until Christmas, by which time it could have damaged your graphics card. Check with your vendor to see if he will replace any damaged parts as well as the PSU.

You can look in BIOS to see the idle temperatures and voltages, and you can use any of these programs to monitor while gaming:

*Everest*
*SensorsView*
*SpeedFan*

In Everest, they are listed under Computer > Sensor.

For example, this is my current set of readings while playing a fullscreen game and running 3 other programs in the background:


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

And those 3 temperatures are OK? When should I get worried?


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

If you mean my motherboard and hard drive temperatures, they are all ok. Hard drives should be around 30C, with the danger zone being over 40C. Other components like CPU, graphics card, etc will have different safe ranges depending on the make/model. We can go into more detail after you get the graphics card installed.

The +12V reading is the most important for gamers, and should be between 11.4 and 12.6 under stress. This is why I don't think the XPower will be strong enough for the HD4870, which needs a good strong power supply.


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

Will it help that:

a) My other components aren't much of resource hogs?
b) I only ever run a game when there's no other programs/processes running?
c) I don't play games excessively (have a break every 45 minutes for 10 minutes)?


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

a) That will help, but the +12V line powers the graphics card, CPU and hard drive, so needs to be strong.

b) Doesn't make much difference. If the fullscreen game pushes the +12V line beyond its capabilities, the temperatures will increase and voltages will become unstable, causing lag, artifacts and crashes. This might not be noticeable for the first few weeks, but the damage is gradually being done.

c) It doesn't take long for the temperatures and voltages to change when going from idle (desktop) to stressed (game), so the damage can start within a few minutes. Obviously, if you're playing for hours at a time, the PSU will be stressed for longer, giving more opportunity for things to go wrong.

If you're happy to risk a cheap 480W PSU and the vendor is prepared to replace any parts that might be damaged after a few months of use, then go for the XPower. But I don't see the point in buying a high-end graphics card and a low-end PSU. If you need to keep the cost down, you could go for the HD48*5*0 instead and put the saved money towards a more suitable PSU.

I'll be upgrading my 512mb 8800GT to a 1gb HD4870 soon and will also be upgrading my Thermaltake Toughpower 650W to a Corsair 750W.


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

well I don't want to have to get the 4850, then upgrade later when I've got a better PSU, and I can't run in Xfire because it's an nVidia mobo. Yeah, I think I'm prepared to risk it because he said it would run 2 4850's in Xfire, and if it didn't he would fix it. So, last question: will 2 4850s need as much power as 1 4870? If the answer is yes, I'll get the 4870 because he said it would be able to deal with it. If it breaks, I might even get a free good PSU out of it.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

2 4850s would need more power than 1 4870, and would only give a performance boost of about 15% over a single 4850.

Comparison between the HD4870 and HD4850: *http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=564&card2=566*

See the Max Power Draw for both cards, listed at the bottom of the screen. 4870:150W, 4850:110W. The rest of the specs are virtually the same (DirectX, shaders, texture units, etc), but the 4870 uses GDDR5 VRAM for faster performance, and costs about $60 more.

The 4850 _with a good quality PSU_ could easily be overclocked using RivaTuner or ATITool to give clock speeds very close to the 4870, and would be able to play GTA4 at high settings with good framerates.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes :smile:


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

OK well I still think I'll go for the 4870. Simply because I'll then get a good PSU when I can, and overclock the 4870 (an OCd 4870 is better than an OCd 4850). Thanks for all the advice. I can only get it in a minimum of 2-3 months anyway. Still, I'm glad I'm not going to do what I was:

1)Buy another 9600 GT for SLI
2)Buy a 700W corsair PSU
3)Pay £50 to get them both installed.

Thanks for all your help


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

I'd still say to get a corsair 750w 

but installing them yourself will save ya lots of $$$


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## jrockpunk1 (Dec 11, 2007)

I will get the 750 W if and when I can, so I won't have my 480 W forever.


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