# Orange Brightbox constantly drops IP??



## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Newbie post, but I have just retired from IT management which included running large scale wired and wi-fi networks for many thousands of users...but I am stumped.

Sample PC OS: Win XP SP3
Adatper: TP-Link TL-WN822N OR Netgear WG111
Router: Orange Brightbox(es)
BB provider: Orange
AV program: AVG 2013

Okay......I have three Orange Brightboxes (don't ask) and on every one using my old Netgear WG111 I would get allocated an IP address only to have it constantly dropped and reverted to an internal address (limited or no connection) EVEN though the Brightbox was still connected with a strong signal.

So after a zillion re-installs of everything, and trying all 3 Brightboxes to the same effect, I bought the TP-Link TL-WN822N.

Amazing speed and coverage...BUT..exactly the same thing happens..the IP is just dropped even though signal strength is up to 98%???? A quick re-connect sorts the problem....but WHY IS THE IP BEING DROPPED BY THE ORANGE BRIGHTBOX(ES)????????????

I tried giving the adapters reserved IP addresses but they still dropped out.

Also tried the smart channel and fixed channel options.......

This one has got me stumped so any help greatly welcomed.

Quality test gives Grade A...(whilst I have an IP address that is!!)

...just dropped IP as I was posting this message.....:banghead:

TIA Vigman

PS I have not posted the Xirrus screen print at the moment as I am not to keen on folks knowing the mac addresses of my kit etc. Would prefer to PM if necessary, but while working, all looks fine!


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

...anyone....please????

Here are 2 images showing the 'connected' Brightbox with excellent signal and the lost nw connection showing in Windows System tray...dropped out twice during this mail and all 3 Brightboxes do this with 2 adapters tried so far!????

nw prob 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

nw prob 1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

TIA

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

Hi and welcome to TSF,

Thanks for the output in xirrus, from looking at the screenshot your signal says-68dbm that is borderline for signal and from the graph it has gone yo -80dbm which is weak signal territory anything of -70dbm and above is considered a weak signal on xirrus.

Can you please provide an *ipconfig /all *for review also.

Where is the brightbox located in relation to your computer are they in the same room, different rooms or different floors?

Can you please try a wired connection to the brightbox also to eliminate a general networking issue although it certainly looks like a wireless signal issue to me.


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Hi, thanks for your reply TheCyberMan !

Have posted config.all link 

ipconfig | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

A few thoughts thoughts and comments......

I know this desktop is placed in a poor position for wi-fi networking however, for years with the old Netgear router and WG111, I could just about work at very low speeds and never had to manually reconnect at the desktop (set to automatic).

When I put the WG11 dongle together with the Orange Brightbox I got 'excellent signal at 54 mpbs' in the same place...never seen before!!!

With the new TP-Link adapter and Orange Brightbox(es) I have had the occasional low (as captured in the Xirrus screenshot) but using other tools I have *always *got up to 98% signal and Excellent with speeds of around 100mbps and Excellent quality.

*EVEN* if this is a weak signal issue, or a dropped signal issue, there is no reason to have to do a full manual reconnect at the desktop (as I have done three times during this posting :angry as the connection is set to 'automatic with the correct security key)!?

Therefore, I think the weak signal is a bit of a red herring as an IP address should be automatically re-allocated when the signal is re-detected?

I think that the DHCP handling in the Orange Brightbox(es) must be failing at a low level. I have tried reserved addressing and all levels of security. However writing this there has been the same signal -80 db or better BUT three drop outs and manual re-connects!

Finally, and for the first time, I could not get a reconnection manually so went back to the router....wireless signalling had stopped altogether and I had to re-boot the router..............................

This is the same with all three Brightboxes I have. Going back to the old Netgear router is OK, but only working on b,g so have to live with max 54mbps

I would just love to know why the IP is not automatically being re-assigned and why drop=outs appear even when signal strength appears to be good???:facepalm:

Thanks again

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

You do have a signal issue that is apparent via the xirrus screenshot, but you are right that it should re-acquire the signal once the signal strengthens again.

The manual re-connect is a seperate issue to the signal i think.

Now do you have any other wireless computers, consoles, tablets etc that have any of the above issues?

Please try updating your wireless adapter cards drivers from the tp-link website.

Also can you try a wired connection as i requested please just to test with it is a general networking issue rather than just a wired one.

Also are there any other devices wired to the brightbox and do they have issues?


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Thanks again! (Some health issues at the minute so not posting as quickly as I would like!)

This PC wi-fi station definitely has problems with signal strength and I think it must be that which is initiating the drop out from the Orange Brightbox. It did this on both WG1111 and TP-link USB adapters with the latest drivers and with WEP and WPA security.

However it not only fails to issue an IP address but on the re-connect, you have to enter the security key after each drop out (next to the ticked box saying "Connect Automatically") 

My wired W7 kit to the Orange Brightbox is great and getting near the top of my 8 gb download speed with no dropping out......

Nothing else is wired to the Brightbox although I want(ed) to experiment with data sharing over the network via the USB port it provides for data sharing.

My Iphone loses contact constantly with this wi-fi network but does reconnect seamlessly and without a re-prompt for security.

So, 3 orange Brightboxes disconnect frequently on 2 different branded dongles with latest drivers on an XP SP3 pc that is not best placed for reception (however after drop outs on the old Netgear router, it would automatically reconnect and re-assign IP). 

After the drop out on an Orange Brightbox a valid IP address is *NEVER *re-assigned AND the security code (WEP or WPA) *ALWAYS *has to be manually typed in again? Same problem with a reserved IP address and/or different adapters!

Something to do with the router's DHCP handling, or security handshaking, I suspect when the reconnect command is flagged up?

Oh yes, and I even set the Brightbox to fixed channel to see if the automatic channel changing was dropping the IP and security....

Baffled...and it is a pain having to type the WPA or WEP code in after multi drop outs in a session......I'd really like to crack this, or at least know the definitive fault, if possible.

Thanks

Vigman


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Had a drop out when the TP-Link software showed these excellent stats on this problem kit:

nw prob 3 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

Sorry to hear your health is not so good i hope it improves for you and post when you can i will always get back to you at some point.

If it was a DHCP problem specifically with the router i would expect it to happen on all devices when drop out occurs and having to manually re-connect since your iphone reconnects automatically that may not be the case IMO.

Now is the iphone close to the router i.e within a few feet or some distance away another room or floor?

Please do not overlook these the wired connection as if that is ok then is only a wireless issue if it is difficult to move please ask someone to move it for you just to test whether the issues are the same or similar.

Did you update the wireless card drivers for the TP-link please try this from their website it may help.?

Also have you tried a hard reset of the brightbox at all to clear all settings and then re-configure from scratch?

It may be worth contacting orange or EE now to see if there is a firmware update for the brightbox which can contain fixes for certain issues.


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Hi

I have been forcing the iPhone to drop out by moving out of range then coming nearer the... [DROP OUT!] ....router until it connects again automatically. However the Apple O/S is so much better at handling wi-fi and DHCP and they rarely showed the problems we had with all wi-fi Windows OS kit at work. A problem that plagued all wi-fi Windows kit at work would not (or hardly ever) touch any Apple kit!

As in my previous mail *"My wired W7 kit to the Orange Brightbox is great and getting near the top of my 8 gb download speed with no dropping out......" So no problems with the wired network.
*
All adapter drivers are current.

I will re-set one of the Orange Brightboxes but this happens on all three new routers I have been provided with!?

I will see if a firmware upgrade is available for the Orange Brightbox.

I have now found similar, unanswered, queries on Google.......:sad:

My thoughts are that this particular PC does drop out because of a poor or dropped wi-fi signal. However, with my Netgear router (on b,g) the IP is instantly re-assigned when the signal improves and off we go...but with only 54 mbps on my old WG111 adapter....

With the Orange Brightboxes (b, g and n) and either wi-fi adapters I have, I have to enter the passphrase/key again every time following a drop out and then hit connect even when 'connect manually' is selected.

I know the easiest answer is to try a newer Netgear or TP-Link router talking b,g, and n, or use a power mains solution *BUT *as folks who worked with and for me know, I always try to solve every problem that arises....and usually do....I just have to know 'why' something happens like this!

Cheers

Vigman


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

....am now trying WPS / QSS between TP-Link and Orange Brightbox......connected...100% signal and 200mbps at present!......will wait and see if/when drop out occurs...

For anyone else trying this, you need the Orange Brightbox pin number from its router setup pages and choose this option in the TP-Link control software. Just selecting connect by QSS on the adapter fails without a reason. Select Connect with router PIN to get a successful WPS connection!

Vigman

PS Still doesn't answer original problem...!!!!!


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

Right the simple answer to your original question is you have a weak signal plain and simple to do with the distance from the brightbox and how many walls and thickness of walls degrading the wireless signal, but i would have thought you should know this being in IT networking.

There are simple resolutions to this which include:

1. Using high gain antennas on the router and/or wireless adapter.

2. Moving the router closer to the device receiving the weak signal.

3. Use homeplugs one to connect to brightbox and the other in wall socket and cable to desktop.

4. Use a range extender(wireless repeater) to extend the wireless signal from the brightbox and boost the signal to the affected computer/s. Place halfway between brightbox and affected computer/s.

5. Use an access point wire it to the brightbox and place it in an area close to the affected computer/s.

Now your second problem is more difficult the having to manually re-connect after drop outs.

That is why i want you to test using a wired connection to the brightbox but you seem to dismiss it.

I know your other W7 computer is ok.

Now let me please explain how we work on this forum.

Users come on here to ask for help and we offer to help them free of charge and do this in our spare time.

In order to help we ask questions that need specific answers and also ask for people to try things in order to try and pinpoint a problem.

Lets say you have not been very forthright in following some things asked and have taken different views as to where this should go.

I want to help you but you have to please help me also in answering questions and testing if required to do so.

Please review what has been asked and follow all the advice before we go further and please post results of what i have asked or required you to do please.

I understand you were in IT networking.

I look forward to trying to help you solve the second issue if we can.


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Many apologies...I think I have been at cross purposes with you....I thought you meant try *any *wired connection to the Orange Brightbox to see if that faults in any way, which is why I kept saying that my wired W7 PC to the Orange Brightbox was fine!

I wasn't dismissing your request, I thought I was confirming it by saying that my wired connection was fine!

I take it you mean run an ethernet cable from the Orange Brightbox directly to the specific XP PC that is currently giving the wireless issues!?

If so I'm going to have to get hold of a pretty long cable...no longer in my direct grasp.....but possible!!

Thanks

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

No worries yes please do that on the xp pc take your time no rush, please do that before the reset and the firmware update.

Also please check that the *DHCP client *service is set to automatic and started also please.

On the iphone disconnects was it in the same room as the brightbox or different room or floor?


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

TheCyberMan said:


> No worries yes please do that on the xp pc take your time no rush, please do that before the reset and the firmware update.
> 
> Also please check that the *DHCP client *service is set to automatic and started also please.
> 
> On the iphone disconnects was it in the same room as the brightbox or different room or floor?


I think a recent combination of anaesthetic and morphine painkillers have finished off my remaining brain cells!? I am actually amongst other things a Chartered Engineer (Computer Systems Design) and was also a moderator in an IT tech forum, so understand your requirements and frustration at non-compliant newbies!:grin:.......

Because the signal from the Brightbox is so strong I had to walk away from the house to get a genuine disconnect today on the iPhone! Manually forcing a wi-fi 'off then on' sitting at the same seat as the XP desktop, caused the iPhone to instantly reconnect with no problem!

I'm going to put a wireless adapter on an old Vista Tosh laptop I have and site it by the XP PC. I want to see if they disconnect at the same time and also if forcing a disconnect and reconnect causes a dropped IP on the Vista wi-fi laptop.

Looking at the router logs before a re-install and back up yesterday, I noticed a brief "LCP down" at around the time of a recorded drop out........so wondering now if the service itself had dropped for a moment. If so, I should see this on all my devices at the same time when the XP PC, Iphone and Vista laptop are all here side by side!!

Will let you know when my 15m cable is in place from the router to the XP desktop and will ensure the automatic setting is on the DHCP service!

Thanks

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

vigman said:


> I think a recent combination of anaesthetic and morphine painkillers have finished off my remaining brain cells!? I am actually amongst other things a Chartered Engineer (Computer Systems Design) and was also a moderator in an IT tech forum, so understand your requirements and frustration at non-compliant newbies!:grin:.......


That is fine and thanks we will get there hopefully and try and get some resolution for you and find the cause.



> Because the signal from the Brightbox is so strong I had to walk away from the house to get a genuine disconnect today on the iPhone! Manually forcing a wi-fi 'off then on' sitting at the same seat as the XP desktop, caused the iPhone to instantly reconnect with no problem!


Yes i wanted to see if the iphone disconnected when in the same room like when you had the strong signal to the XP desktop indicating some interference from other wireless devices such as cordless phones, dect 10 phones, microwaves, baby monitors etc which may be sited next to the router or XP desktop and cause disconnects and also maybe account for a manual re-connect. Interference cannot be ruled out either at this stage.



> I'm going to put a wireless adapter on an old Vista Tosh laptop I have and site it by the XP PC. I want to see if they disconnect at the same time and also if forcing a disconnect and reconnect causes a dropped IP on the Vista wi-fi laptop.


A good idea to test that and install xirrus also and get an idea on the signal strength from the laptop. Different wireless adapters can be better or worse at picking up the wireless signal on different brands some are better than others. I remember when Windows 7 came out and for some time after netgear wireless adapters were certified for vista but only worked with Windows 7 not certified so saw a few problems with those.
Don't know if this is still the case should not be now on newer models.



> Looking at the router logs before a re-install and back up yesterday, I noticed a brief "LCP down" at around the time of a recorded drop out........so wondering now if the service itself had dropped for a moment. If so, I should see this on all my devices at the same time when the XP PC, Iphone and Vista laptop are all here side by side!!


Yes LCP(Line connection Protocol) down is a possible concern have seen this before on orange and OP had to contact orange to get resolution as they may have been a break on the line from the exchange to the livebox as it was then or on the phoneline.

Something you can try is to put a new micro filter between the master phone socket and phone and brightbox to eliminate that else a call to orange asking for line quality tests may be advisable. I do agree that it should affect all devices on the network connected to the brightbox.



> Will let you know when my 15m cable is in place from the router to the XP desktop and will ensure the automatic setting is on the DHCP service!


Thanks please let me know when this has been tested and the results please.


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Thanks again

I actually had to get BT to do a line test and callout recently (had my land line rental with them and BB with Orange via BT wholesale) due to severe crackling on the line. I made friends with the Openreach engineer and he struck off a new pair from the telegraph pole junction box for me. 

At that point my IP speed limit had been automatically limited at the exchange to 1.5 gb because of the fault on the line. Now the new pair is getting close to the 8gb I should be getting. 

I used to get a few (longish) LCP downs on Orange but the one in the log yesterday was only about 30 seconds. There are micro filters in each Brightbox so I have plenty of new ones to try as well!

Interestingly, using WPS /QSS security with the Orange router PIN number used has seen much faster speeds at the same desktop.....although still the drop outs, and now the PIN has to be re-entered rather than the WPA or WEP security.

I will note the exact time of the next dropout and then check the router logs to see if I had another LCP down episode.

One other point is that these dropouts happen in the first hour and a half of connection (usually between 8am, - 9.30pm), I have not had an afternoon or evening dropout yet!?

Will report back when wired up.

Thanks very much for the continued help........I hope it helps someone else as frequently losing connection AND re-applying the security info is really annoying!

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

You are welcome i will await your update on the wired connection and DHCP service.

Yes see if the LCP downs occur at the same time as any drop outs but i would think every device would be affected if a problem on the line.


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Quick update while waiting for the 15m Cat 5 cable to arrive:

This is *not *a service failure. The iphone stayed connected (and not cached) during the XP PC drop out.

I have a Vista SP2 laptop installed with an internal Realtek wi-fi adapter. I forced disconnects and the IP was re-issued every time!

Finally for now, the drop outs and failed reconnects on the XPSP3 kit only happen in the first hour of turning on after 3 -4 full reconnects it stays stable all day??

This really is a weird one...............

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

If other devices are not disconeecting during an LCP down then it is not network wide and probably not a service failure.

Please check the *DHCP client *service on the xp sp3 machine as i have asked several times and ensure it is set to automatic and started.

The issue may be local to your xp machine rather than the network itself.

You only have one brightbox connected at one time right and the other two are switched off and unplugged?


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Apologies again, I said I would ensure that 'automatic' and 'started settings' were on the DHCP service but have not reported back that this was actually the case. It is.

Only one Brightbox connected. Only router on and connected.

*NOW*................cable arrived today just as the wireless connection dropped and failed to restart.

I plugged the cable in during this outage and immediately got a wired connection.

I have posted *ipconfig /all* here 

nw prob 6 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

and it shows that it thinks the wireless dongle is disconnected (it isn't). This is what it always shows before I restart the wi-fi connection having to re-input either security keys or router PIN depending on security type.

As you say, it looks like an XP issue (combined with the Orange Brightbox) as the Vista Toshiba wi-fi reconnects after forcing it off.

This dropping out and failing to re-issue an IP never happened after drop outs on the Netgear router on the XP PC.

Thanks for all your help TheCyberMan

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

A cuple of things to try delete all the wireless profiles on the xp sp3 computer follow this guide below:

Removing wireless network profiles or preferred networks

Also open a cmd prompt by right clicking and choosing run as administrator and type:

*netsh int ip reset c:\resetlog.txt* press enter
*netsh winsock reset catalog *press enter
*ipconfig /flushdns *press enter and restart pc


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Hi, after a lot of personal illness and family illness, last night I finally got round to removing all wireless profiles and running the cmd scripts as in the last message.

Started up today, and as always, the connection is dropped in the first half hour and has to have security information added again to get a new IP allocated.

Interestingly this only happens once or twice within the first hour of use (Never during the rest of the day's use) and only on the XP SP3 PC with any wi-fi adapter and the Orange Brightbox.

I think I have come to the end of trying to find a straightforward solution to this annoying problem and thank TheCyberMan for all his help and support.

Over Christmas I ordered a length of UTP Cat 5e cable for a permanent wired solution. The price was too good to be true and the cable was as flat as a ribbon and twisted with kinks...totally useless!

I have been spoilt by good quality, expensive STP cable (one of which I have to return to my old workplace)

Thanks again

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

Hi sorry to hear you and your family have not been well I hope you all are feeling better now.

On the probmatic XP SP3 machine can you check that the wireless encryption matches that on the router I.e *WPA2 AES* and network key.

Also what internet(anti-virus and firewall) package are you using on the probmatic XP SP3 machine?


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Hi

Finally been able to check wireless encryption and NW key matching. 

Used a different encryption method at the start of each test day (including the TP-Link dongle QSS setting which uses the router's PIN number as its key).

Fails once or twice and the key or PIN on each encryption method needs re-entering in the first 30 minutes and then never again during the day's session.

I also tried using fixed wireless channels instead of the Brightbox's automatic choice and change of best available, but the same thing happens on all transmitted channels.

I'm using AVG 2013 on the XP PC and have tried with Windows own firewall software both on and off.

I have now bought the cable, plugs and crimping tool to hardwire this connection, but would have loved to have just discovered what causes this wi-fi drop out on this set up.

Thanks again for help and advice

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

As a test can you remove all encryption from the router and delete all wireless profiles on the xp SP3 machine then connect to the brightbox SSID again and see if there are any connection drops and no-reconnect issue.


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## Hawkeye8 (Feb 13, 2013)

Hi to Vigman & Cyberman

I have followed your progress and carried out the suggestions on this problem with interest. I have a very similar perhaps even exactly the same issue with new EE Brightbox'(s) and using TP-Link TL-PA411 Power Line Kit . After two EE 'Brightboxe(s)' and also having had the integrity of my landline checked and confirmed OK by EE on three occasions. (they also sent the second Brightbox after declaring that the first one must be faulty) 
*The Problem : *
After a varied time period of between one hour to 2 days, the internet connection is dropped and will then not automatically reconnect. ( checked phone line during the drop-out period, and that is working fineand am able to make and receive calls ) The only way I can get back on line is to swich off the bright box leave it for a minute or so and then switch in on again, then after 5 minutes or so it reconnects to the internet. Following your trouble shooting logic, and to iliminate any possible wifi issues, two days ago I connected my Samsung laptop running Windows Vista, directly to the 'Brightbox' by ethernet cable. I thought this had solved the problem, but sadly NO, this morning I found it had dropped the internet again and would not reconnect. I have also replaced all the 'filters'. Prior to EE talking me into an upgrade package three weeks ago, for the last 18 months or so I was using my old Orange Livebox 2978 with the TP-Link Power Line above and my Samsung Laptop connected to the system by wifi with no problems whatsoever. ?? Could this be a capatability issue between the new EE Brightbox and the TP-Link power line ?, and if so would be grateful for any advice on how to fix it. At present, I have now disconnected the TP-Link from the Brightbox, just to see if the Brightbox will work continually (and reconnect if necessary) on its own with just the laptop connected by an ethernet cable. 

Looking forward to hearing from you, Many thanks, Hawkeye8


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Firstly to Cyberman who asked: "As a test can you remove all encryption from the router and delete all wireless profiles on the xp SP3 machine then connect to the brightbox SSID again and see if there are any connection drops and no-reconnect issue."

I did all this and it still dropped connection and failed to reconnect!

Since then I have hard wired this connection from the Orange Brightbox to the onboard Intel 82566DM-2 Gigabit network adapter and have not had any drop outs. Also, forced drop outs immediately reconnect with an appropriate IP.

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

First to Hawkeye8 i am helping vigman in this thread and you will have to create your own thread on the issue although the same.

It is not allowed to ask for help in existing threads it is against the rules.

Can you please create your own thread on your issue to receive help thank you.
A copy of the  forum rules for you to review.



> Firstly to Cyberman who asked: "As a test can you remove all encryption from the router and delete all wireless profiles on the xp SP3 machine then connect to the brightbox SSID again and see if there are any connection drops and no-reconnect issue."
> 
> I did all this and it still dropped connection and failed to reconnect!
> 
> ...


Hi vigman glad to hear that the wired connection is working with no issues.

It means your problem is just wireless related not a general networking issue as your phone now connects fine to the wireless network.

I think the not re-acquiring the connection may have been a red herring as the signal is weak so not automatic re-acquire is possible.



> There are simple resolutions to this which include:
> 
> 1. Using high gain antennas on the router and/or wireless adapter.
> 
> ...


I think one or a combimation of the above should resolve the wireless issue you face with the desktop.

The wired connection proves there are no issues with TCP or network.

Hope this helps.


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## vigman (Dec 3, 2012)

Many thanks, TheCyberman.

As well as your solutions, going back to my old Netgear router instead of the Orange Brightbox and using either the new TP Link USB adapter or my old Netgear dongle give me a wireless solution that instantly reconnects after a dropped/weak signal on the Xp SP2 PC.

Vigman


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## TheCyberMan (Jun 25, 2011)

Glad to be of a help to you and you are very welcome.

Please let us know how it goes and if one of the solutions along with the netgear finally solve the issue.


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