# Recomended 120/140mm fans for case?



## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

I have 2 thermalright 120s on my heatsink they seem to be pretty good, and not too noisy. 

I want a balance between noise, price and performance. 

I can fit up to 7 fans in the new case I ordered. Thought the more room for upgrades the better. I can fit 3 140s and 4 120s.

I oredered a 140mm thermalright fan so far. but thinking a 120mm or two to add to that. 

The case will come with one as well. 

I would like something around the £6 each mark. The thermalrights are aroudn this price but I don;t know if there are better performers for a similar price.


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## JimE (Apr 16, 2009)

More is not always better. And it will be a matter of trial and error to see which fan openings provide the best cooling. I have most of the fan openings in my cases taped over (to seal them as an opening alters air flow, and thus cooling).


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

The primary goal of case fans is to bring cool air into the case and exhaust hot air. Your secondary goal is to direct cool air specifically toward those regions where the most heat is generated (specifically, the GPU, CPU and motherboard chipset). The tertiary goal is to have sufficient airflow so as to help prevent dust buildup, though dust will always be somewhat of an issue due to it being attracted by the buildup of electrical charge. Finally, you would like to do all this as quietly as possible.

The fan size, configuration, type and speed required to complete these goals varies with the case used and components installed. This is why case review conclusions have to be qualified -- I've seen reviewers give poor cooling ratings to the same cases that rated as excellent in other reviews when they had different fan configurations.

What you don't want to do is to create airflow conflicts by having the fans fighting each other. Many people find that side case fans actually lessen the efficiency of the cooling setup, whereas others find that they enhance it. It all depends on how you route your airflow.

Here is a smoke test that shows case airflow: 

Fortress FT01 PC case with positive air pressure part 2 - YouTube


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## Panther063 (Jul 13, 2009)

MPR said:


> The primary goal of case fans is to bring cool air into the case and exhaust hot air.
> 
> What you don't want to do is to create airflow conflicts by having the fans fighting each other.
> It all depends on how you route your airflow.
> ...


Nice video example.
It might help if he had the top fan extracting hot air, as all manufacturers state. It would have also helped if a working system was used with twin fans mounted on the CPU cooler. :nonono:


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## Panther063 (Jul 13, 2009)

Dogg said:


> More is not always better. And it will be a matter of trial and error to see which fan openings provide the best cooling. I have most of the fan openings in my cases taped over (to seal them as an opening alters air flow, and thus cooling).


I was thinking the same, why all the extra holes on new cases?
My next case will have them blanked off too, to create a directional flow through the case, from the bottom front (cool air in) out through the top (hot air out)


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

hmm now you have me worried guys as my case i bought has tons of holes as part of the design- aerocool vs9. Ah well!


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Actually, if you have more air blowing in than exhausting out all those extra holes simply allow for more ventilation. Rather than directing airflow to specific components, the idea of gaming cases with these larger fans and massive grates is to have a general flow of cool air throughout the case. The idea behind a "sealed" case is not directed airflow per se but rather noise reduction.

To show how a general large-volume airflow works well all you have to do is remove your case's side panels and set a room fan to blow into the case. I just now ran both Prime 95 and Unigine Heaven at the same time to stress both my CPU and GPU. Temps maxed out at 56 C for the CPU and 73 C for the GPU. I then removed my left side panel and set a room fan next to the case. After a minute the CPU was 47 C -- nine degrees cooler and the GPU 55C -- 18 degrees cooler.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

So you mean I may not have wasted my money then!? 

Hmm having a room fan blasting into your comp do you really think thats a realisitc test ?


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Remes said:


> Hmm having a room fan blasting into your comp do you really think thats a realisitc test ?


It shows you what the optimal is and if you are achieving anywhere close to it. Also, I wouldn't say the fan I have produces anywhere near a "blasting" effect, it's more like a gentle breeze.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

But im not sure i follow...

the fan would porduce an unrealistic cooling effect cos you wouldnt be able to duplicate that with case fans, plus the distribution would be all over the place, ie a really wide flow vs the tight flow of case fans. so not sure what that proves?

Oh I think im with you that you can get an idea of what it would be like with alot of air flow. but still it isnt really helpful cos you cant really rpelicate that since the fans will be differnet and you would always have a case cover on.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

My C70 case potentially allows for the use of up to ten case fans. With that many high-speed fans I'd probably come close to optimal cooling. However, I really wonder if spending a couple of hundred dollars on ten $20 high volume case fans would make economical sense, when I could achieve the same temperature reduction at the same noise level by just opening the case and setting a $15 room fan next to it. Even in the high tech world, sometimes "cave man" is the best way to go.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Lol, true true.

In terms of this 'airflow' thing, and the added holes on the aerocool vs9, i stil dont see it being an advantage though, only maybe if you had fans on them, cos if not then the spacers arent gonna be doing anyhting constructive and may even be detrimental. 

I can see the use of them near the actual components since i imagine that the air would be pushed out via the components thus cooling them on the way but the side ones would be a hindrance no? since theres no components there and so it will be drawing the cool air flow away from the components...


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

I just thought I suppose the converse argument could also be true that the sidepanels draw HOT air away from the components.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

I see now that most ppl say use them for intake. the plot thickens


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## Panther063 (Jul 13, 2009)

Remes said:


> I see now that most ppl say use them for intake. the plot thickens


Side panel fans are used to blow cool air onto the GPU region, an area that may not get adequate air flow from front, rear or top mount fans.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Still no1 has given me any recomendations for actual fans to get! My case is gonna be here today and the weather is hot hot hot! so gotta get some asap! 

Remember my requirements are the cheapest, but good airflow and quietish, not TOO bothered about quietness but dont want any jet engines like the stock amd fx coolers! Something around £5 -8 each for 120/140.

Btw, does having alot of fans take considerably more electricity?

Maybe Ill just go by good old amazon reviews to sort the wheat from the chaff. 

Arctic cooling F12s look like a bargain! Great reviews and very cheap.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Even a cheap fan will blow air and cool your system. The difference between a cheap fan and a quality fan is that the latter will be quieter, have more airflow in relation to noise and will usually last longer.

The best fans I have are Noctua NF-P14s, which at $29 US are somewhat expensive. The second best fans are Scythe Gentle Typhoons that cost $17 each. I also have some Corsairs that came with a case that aren't too bad if the speed is lowered to reduce noise and some Antecs that blow air OK and have lasted for years but are rather noisy at any but their lowest speed setting.

The fan below gets pretty good reviews for a less pricey model:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prolimatech...33560&sr=8-1&keywords=Prolimatech+Blue+Vortex


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Cheers, ye its good to hear a cpl of personal opinions on the diff price points. 

8-10 seems a good mid range price point.

Im really at emergency levels for cash atm and require fans imminently due to hot weather  so I might go with the cheapies for now and see how I fare. and go from there.


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## JimE (Apr 16, 2009)

Good site for reference: FrozenCPU.com | 1.877.243.8266 | World's Largest Selection of PC Modification Supplies


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Im loving m new case, its amazing the leaps and bounds that case design has come in the 10 years or so since i bought my last one  

Soooo much more intuitive, nearly everything that frustrated me about building a pc has now been pretty much solved 

All except clipping in that infernal back motherboad panel!


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Is it possible to turn off pwm funcitons on fans if i prefer them running at full all the time? cos i bought all pwms for the added option but i figure if its not too loud they might as well run at full at the time to give max temp reduction. 

I bought pwm fans and also a splitter cable which splits one to 5 fans, is that safe making one cable into 5?

Also...what do you guys suggest as my intake/exhaust setup? 

I have one as exhaust as defualt came with the case. 

I have two more 120mms coming and one 140 if it ever arrives! 

As per the aerocool vs 9 case, it seems I wont be able to add the 140 up fornt as intake as I had planned. 

I also dont think its going to fit up top either unfortunately due to the ram and cpu being crammed right to the top, they didnt leave any clearance there for fans really, tho i will be able to fit a 120 whcih i plan to do. 

So that leaves only the side and bottom. 

If I only have one exhaust is this ok? there are still loads of holes for airflow...

Would the 140 be better on the bottom or the side? Im thinking the bottom so it will pull up to the cpu as well as graphics card.

Ill put on 120 on the front and the other one up top as i said giving a nice direct flow to the cpu.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

I think that positive pressure (more air blowing in than exhausting at any given time) has shown itself to be the best setup for computer cases, especially those with top, bottom and back mesh openings. In my personal system I have three fans blowing in (two front, one side) and one exhausting. There are also two internal fans that blow on the GPU and South Bridge and two that are part of my CPU cooler. And, of course, there is the PSU fan, which pulls cool air from the bottom of the case and vents it out the back but this is more-or-less an isolated system (not to mention that my AX850's fan doesn't even turn on unless I'm loading the system considerably).

As stated above, a PWM fan _should_ run OK on a 3-pin fan header, just at full speed (i.e., the "pulse" will always be at a 100% duty cycle). However, it's possible that there are some PWM fans with extra circuitry that require a 4-pin header and won't run without the signal to control feedback loop.

As for a 5-fan splitter, motherboard fan headers may be rated at different amps, depending on the manufacturer and header location. One response I saw from an AsRock tech stated that the Z77 Extreme supported up to 12 W on Chassis_1 bit only 6 W on Chassis_2, which would mean 1 amp and 0.5 amp respectively at 12 V.

Fans pull different amounts of current depending on their design, speed and number of LEDs. For example, the Noctua NF-F12PWM pulls merely 0.05 A where the BitFenix Spectre Pro 120 pulls a whopping 0.4 A.

Therefore, the number of fans that can be run off a single fan header depends on the motherboard's and fans' specs.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Hmm talk of voltages makes my head spin :/

My motherboard is the asus m5a97 revision2.0. Can you tell me if Im good with that? 

ALso the power comes form a 4 pin molex on the psu which splits into 5, but theres also a 4 pin to mobo for speed control.

I realised im in luck and I can actually put the 140s on the front too as they take the same 120mm screw fitting (is this usually the case if i want to get more of a different make or is it just the case with this thermalright ty 147?) So I cna go crazy with 140s if I want, but I think Ill stop now once I get the other 2 120s, dont wanna get greedy


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

A Molex 4-pin connector can provide up to 11 amps @ 12 V -- more than enough to power five case fans of any type. As you have noted, you can also run a separate wires to a motherboard fan header for sense and control purposes.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Alright cool thanks. Just wanted to chekc Ill be all above board  Dont wanna screw my comp up again!


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## JimE (Apr 16, 2009)

If you want to control fan speed, you would need a fan controller.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Hmm i dont wanna vary the speed I jsut want the option of having them at full blast all the time. but if they are all 4 pins i dont have that option do i? or is there a software that could do it instead.? i dont want to have to buy hardware just for it. more price and cluter.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

I don't know what you have been told, but a 4wire (PWM) fan does not require a PWM signal in order to operate. You may fit the 4-pin fan plug to a 3-pin motherboard header, leaving the fourth pin unconnected, or connect the fan direct to a constant voltage source (such as your power supply).

And by the way, that voltage source does not necessarily have to be a full 12 volts; you may use a reduced voltage such as via a voltage divider type controller to vary fan speed.

The only problem I've ever had fitting a 4pin plug to a 3pin header is that sometimes other components near the header get in the way of the plug fully inserting.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

If your 5-fan splitter looks like the one below then you can plug in either three-pin or four-pin fans. Note that the key clasp is offset for this very purpose. You can also plug in the control/sense cable into a 4-pin header for tachometer and PWM control (all fans will vary at the same time). If you leave it unconnected the fans will just run at full speed. If you plug it into a 3-pin header then you will have a tachometer readout but no PWM control.

If you are really interested, here are the technical specs for PWM fan control:

http://www.formfactors.org/developer\specs\REV1_2_Public.pdf


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Ye thats the exact one i have  

Ok cool so just plug the molex in if i only want full speed, and plug both molex and 4 pin mobo connector for power and control?


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

finally got it put together today and the temps werent even that different even with all the fans 

I intially was on 45 idle temps, then when I put the top fan as intake it went down to 40 which is a nice reduction for sure. The 140mm didnt seem to be packing much heat up front drawing in a straight direction to the twoer and other fans, so i moved it to the side panel, the idles did end up at 40 again but they seemed to rise alot more slowly. 

What should be acceptable idles in the height of summer (uk) for an 8320? For comparison the ambient temp was showing 30 degrees. It was 35 usualy in springtime before i got these additional fans. Id still like to have under 30 for all year round as idle that seems lieka reasonable figure. we'll how to see how the load temps are but want to sort the diles out 1st.

i think my front room is just too freaking hot! the computer is placed right in direct sunlight for most of the day and the large windows covering the whole wall- forgot the name make it really heat up in here. 

I think ill move the comp back into my bedroom wchih is cooler rather than spend more and more on cooling.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Remes said:


> I think ill move the comp back into my bedroom wchih is cooler rather than spend more and more on cooling.


Good idea. Unless you use a phase-change system, you can never cool lower than the ambient temperature. Also, the temperature inside a sun-lit case will be higher than that of the rest of the room.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Hmm didnt get much moreleg room by moving into the otehr room. went from 40-38.

Seems the idle is exactly 10 degrees above the motherbioard temp- i realised it was mobo tmep not ambient that i was lookng at before. 

This still isnt very good is it for just idling around?

I dont see how much better id get tho with just air cooling and i am not gonna look into otehr types no money atm. So i suppose ill just have to cross my fingers it doesnt screw up again?


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

38 C is fine at idle before the thermal compound has had a chance to break in (i.e., migrate to fill the tiny crevasses).

Don't get too caught up in temperatures, just keep them below the recommended max levels for your components.

My Phenom II, which runs at a slower clockspeed than the FX 8350, idles at 36 C in the summer (75 F room) and about 32 C in the winter (68 F room).


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

Thanks, well i wasnt worried about it before but i burned one out the otehr day and had to replace it so obv im paranoid not to screw this one up! 

I didnt get ant warnings or seocnd chances just the mouse started glithci gthe suddednly i couldnt post.


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## Remes (Oct 12, 2010)

My backup computer actually just locked up form overheating as well. I didnt have any idea what the tmeps were and its been fine for over 10 years no probs (maybe it has locked up before form overheating but it must just have been uneventful rather than dmaging), but it suddenly locked up and reset itself.

I looked in the bios and temps were rocking at 66 degrees! I heard that amd 3200s run hotter but reading aorund they say they should go above 60, and this was not on heavy load!


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