# [SOLVED] Power loss issue



## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

PSU: Corsair AX860i.
Case: NZXT H440.
Motherboard: MSI Z97 Gaming 5, Bios 1.5 (cpu supported since 1.2), no overclock settings touched.
CPU: Intel "Devil's Canyon" 4790k.
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 8GB, 1600MHz.
GPU: AMD Club3D R9 290 RoyalAce.

About a week after my most recent build I've had the following problem:

I turn on the computer. Randomly (sometimes even in UEFI/BIOS it has happened), power is cut, as if the power-cable is ripped out. The time the computer is on without crashing varies from 1 minute to 9 hours.
A few seconds after the shutdown, the computer tries to restart, it is unable to do so, it gets stuck in a 1sec-on/1sec-off loop. The only way to get it to boot properly ever again is to keep the PSU unplugged for ~30 minutes, then plug it back in. 

I've reconnected all the power-cables, made sure they're in place properly. I've made sure the mobo/case-standoffs are properly in place, and that there are no unnecessary standoffs in place.

Edit: I've also booted the computer with no case cables connected (shorted PWR with carkeys), same problem.

When the computer has worked, I've done serious stresstesting on it, maxing out the GPU and CPU, nothing out of the ordinary seemed to happen. Temps were very acceptable.

I've Memtested the RAM, no errors found after running for several hours.

Any help is appreciated.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*

You need to first determine if you are supplying good power. So if me, I would start with swapping in a known good PSU, or having that one professionally tested. 

Note to properly and conclusively test a power supply unit (PSU), it must be tested under various realistic "loads" then analyzed for excessive *ripple* and other anomalies that affect computer stability. This is done by a qualified technician using an oscilloscope or power supply analyzer - sophisticated (and expensive) electronic test equipment requiring special training to operate, and a basic knowledge of electronics theory to understand the results. 

I do not recommend using a multimeter to test power supplies. To do it properly, that is, under a realistic load, the voltages on all the pins must be measured while the PSU is attached to the motherboard and the computer powered on. This requires poking (with some considerable force) two hard and sharp, highly conductive meter probes into the main power connector, deep in the heart of the computer. One tiny slip can destroy the motherboard, and everything plugged into it. It is not worth the risk considering most multimeters, like plug-in testers, do not measure, or reveal any unwanted and potentially disruptive AC components to the DC voltages, like ripple. 

Therefore, conclusively testing a power supply is done in properly equipped electronics repair facilities. 

Fortunately, there are other options that are almost as good. I keep one of these *PSU Testers* in my tool bag in my truck. The advantage of this model is that it has an LCD readout of the voltage. With an actual voltage readout, you have a better chance of detecting a "failing" PSU, or one barely within the required tolerances as specified in the *ATX Form Factor PSU Design Guide* (see “Table 2. DC Output Voltage Regulation” below from Page 13). Lesser models use LEDs to indicate the voltage is just within some "range". These are less informative, considerably cheaper, but still useful for detecting PSUs that have already "failed". *Newegg* has several testers to choose from. However, none of these testers test for ripple and they only provide a little "dummy load", not a variety of "realistic" loads. So while not a certain test, these testers are better than nothing. They are also great when using a spare PSU for testing fans and drive motors as they signal the PSU to turn on when plugged in.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Hi and Welcome to TSF!

Inside the BIOS, what are the 12V, 5V, 3.3V, and VCORE voltages?


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*



Bill_Bright said:


> You need to first determine if you are supplying good power. So if me, I would start with swapping in a known good PSU, or having that one professionally tested.


Sadly I do not have a known good PSU at hand, and for testing it I'll see what the local PC-store has to offer. The PSU's built-in selftest worked flawlessly 9/10 times, but on the failed one it randomly shut down (these tests were +/- 1 minute each). The LED was solid green all the time though, as if nothing was wrong.
Edit: Do you know if Thermaltake AC0015 Dr. Power II Power Tester - Newegg.com is a good product? I can sadly not get my hands on the FrozenCPU tester you linked as it'd cost too much in shipping.



Masterchiefxx17 said:


> Hi and Welcome to TSF!
> 
> Inside the BIOS, what are the 12V, 5V, 3.3V, and VCORE voltages?


12V: 12.000, 5V: 5.000, 3.3V/System: 3.280, CPU VCore: 1.080, DRAM: 1.586


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

I completely forgot to mention: Whenever it powers on or off it makes a distinctive "clicking" noise that comes from inside the PSU itself.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*

That Thermaltake tester seems just fine. Just remember that none of those plug in testers place a true load on the supplies, nor do they test for anomalies like ripple. 

And note too since your problem is intermittent, troubleshooting will be much more difficult, and frustrating. 



> The PSU's built-in selftest worked flawlessly 9/10 times,


I have to admit, that confused me. I have not seen that in a PSU but after reading about that Corsair PSU, I think you can easily go by its own monitoring software, and not worry about professional testing, or a plug in tester.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> I completely forgot to mention: Whenever it powers on or off it makes a distinctive "clicking" noise that comes from inside the PSU itself.


Mechanical noises can reverberate through metal computer cases and appear to be originating from somewhere else. But still, with the 1 failure you mentioned, and now this noise, and considering that is NOT, by any means, a budget PSU, I think you should contact Corsair and see about getting a replacement.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*



Bill_Bright said:


> Mechanical noises can reverberate through metal computer cases and appear to be originating from somewhere else. But still, with the 1 failure you mentioned, and now this noise, and considering that is NOT, by any means, a budget PSU, I think you should contact Corsair and see about getting a replacement.


Thing is, I could clearly hear where the noise came from, I had my ear right next to the PSU and hear it originate from it, and because of how the Case's PSU-cover is shaped, the noise either comes from the PSU or I had some temporary hearing-disease 

Edit: Also, already opened a support-ticket with Corsair, awaiting a more developed reply from them.
Also the PSU cost me too much to be called "budget", but the amount of faulty AX860is being returned to Corsair from what I've read... is worrying..


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> Also the PSU cost me too much to be called "budget",


That was my point. That is a very high-end PSU from a very reputable maker. Hopefully, they will take care of you promptly.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

To further clarify the clicking, this is exactly how it sounds(at the end of video) both when powering on and off computer: Video 1 Corsair AX860i ON-OFF - YouTube


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## jimscreechy (Jan 7, 2005)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Change the power supply... fast!


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Just had a talk with Corsair Live Support. As soon as I get my RMA approved(soon enough..), I'll be getting a fresh PSU of the same model whether or not this one is faulty, will use their "express RMA method" as they call it.

If the one I receive displays the same problems I'll have to do more in-depth analysis of what could cause the power issues.

I will return and update with any and all information I can gather. Thank you for the replies.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*

From here - which means through your microphone, your DACs, my DACs, my speakers and then my ears - that clicking almost sounds like an arc - that is, a spark jumping across a gap. Not good. 

But it also sounds like a relay switching contacts as part of a safety feature to cut current due to a short and/or excessive current situation. Also not good. Well, good the relay cuts power, but not good there is a short. 

Either way, I would advise you pull that PSU immediately and don't even think about using it again - at least not with it connected to any hardware you don't want lost.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

To update on the issue: Corsair has agreed to an RMA, will soon send the power-supply to them and receive one from them "within 1-3 work days"(Express RMA). Due to how early the PSU ran into issues the shipping will be free both to and from them.

According to Corsair it sounds like the PSU is "holding a charge". I have no idea how this would cause spontaneous, random shutdowns and whatever but yeah. Their support department(s) have been great to me.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> Due to how early the PSU ran into issues the shipping will be free both to and from them.


Wow! That's great! Usually you have to pay to return the old item. I have always felt the quality of the treatment a company gives you AFTER the sell is almost as important at the quality of their products. Until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, there will always be premature defects - especially on new designs and products. 

So kudos to Corsair! 



> According to Corsair it sounds like the PSU is "holding a charge". I have no idea how this would cause spontaneous, random shutdowns and whatever but yeah.


It depends on where this charge is being held. If on the AC side, that would be bad because the voltage is supposed to "alternate" between positive and negative - not stay positive or negative. Computer power supplies use switched mode technologies, and this supply may not be switching properly. 

Anyway, if me, I might pull everything out of the case and assemble the computer again with the new PSU on a wooden cutting board or plain cardboard - to test the PSU, and to ensure the case is not a factor.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Power loss issue*

if its holding a charge then it will be spiking at some point and that causes a voltage rise it also goes the other way too. The charge spikes then goes back to holding the charge causing a voltage dip. Either way causes the shutdown the only difference is that the big spike can be very dangerous to your components as it can over volt the components and cause damage. It can also cause the main operation of the psu to fail which is to turn AC electricity to low voltage DC electricity which computer components need to run. If any components get AC electricity to them then they immediatley die.

Two points to note is that corsair have never made power supplies they use other manufacturers to make their power supplies. The used to use high quality manufacturers such as seasonic for their PSUs but since early last year they have started using sirtec and CWT to make their power supplies and sirtec and CWT are low quality manufacturers.

Their RMA procedure is good though.

Don't use that psu again or you risk damage.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*



greenbrucelee said:


> if its holding a charge then it will be spiking at some point and that causes a voltage rise it also goes the other way too. The charge spikes then goes back to holding the charge causing a voltage dip. Either way causes the shutdown the only difference is that the big spike can be very dangerous to your components as it can over volt the components and cause damage. It can also cause the main operation of the psu to fail which is to turn AC electricity to low voltage DC electricity which computer components need to run. If any components get AC electricity to them then they immediatley die.
> 
> Two points to note is that corsair have never made power supplies they use other manufacturers to make their power supplies. The used to use high quality manufacturers such as seasonic for their PSUs but since early last year they have started using sirtec and CWT to make their power supplies and sirtec and CWT are low quality manufacturers.
> 
> ...


I thank you verily for dumbing down the issue. (No sarcasm intended :smile

Yes, I know Corsair don't make their own power supplies (as Antec, CoolerMaster etc don't do either), and honestly in afterthought I think I should have gone for a Super Flower instead (Read they make very high quality PSUs).


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> if its holding a charge then it will be spiking at some point
> 
> The charge spikes then goes back to holding the charge causing a voltage dip.


Huh? What?

"_Will_ be" spiking? No! If it is "holding" a charge, it is "holding", not alternating, or rapidly rising - or decaying for that matter. We have no clue, at this point how the held charge is being held, how long it is being held, or how it will be negated. And regardless, there is nothing to suggest spiking (rapidly rising, excessive, unwanted, high-voltage events) is occurring anywhere. Or dips (rapid, unwanted, low-voltage events) either. 

A held charge already suggests a high "potential" - not a further and _"rapid increase"_ (AKA: spiking!) of voltage. 

:ermm: And how does a spike cause a voltage dip??? Got a link to the source for that? While it is not uncommon for dips (opposite of spikes) to follow spikes in totally unprotected, unregulated circuits (like your house current) until the circuit/grid stabilizes, there is no automatic bungee cord effect. That is, a spike does not have to be followed by a dip. In fact, there is nothing dictated by the Laws of Physics (which controls Electronics Theory) that says dips WILL follow spikes. A dip is the opposite of a spike, not the decline or elimination of a spike. 

But again, there has been no evidence of any surge, spike, dip, or sag activities presented in this thread - all of which indicate an increase or decrease in voltage potentials - not the "holding" of a charge.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Okay guys so I just got a thought in my head; maybe I'm just a ******* idiot; let me explain:

I just checked the manual of the case *very thoroughly*, and apparently I've had a 12V Input(from PSU) plug in an 12V Output slot in the Case's integrated fan hub (Power going INTO an OUTPUT)

Could this mean that the crashes have been from the hub not receiving enough power, or overloading a rail(or something) in the PSU?

Case manual: http://www.nzxt.com/uploads/downloads/manuals/H440_Manual.pdf


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Power loss issue*



Bill_Bright said:


> Huh? What?


I mis phrased that I suppose but if the spike goes to another part of the pc instead of the cpu then the cpu isn't getting the correct voltage so you could call it a dip I suppose.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

To clarify I believe that the fan-hub, not as designed, was drawing all its power entirely from a SYSFAN slot on the motherboard.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



strongdoctor said:


> I just checked the manual of the case *very thoroughly*, and apparently I've had a 12V Input(from PSU) plug in an 12V Output slot in the Case's integrated fan hub (Power going INTO an OUTPUT)
> 
> Could this mean that the crashes have been from the hub not receiving enough power, or overloading a rail(or something) in the PSU?


What else was connected to this hub? Hopefully, only fans and the one header connection. It would not be a problem with the hub not receiving enough power, but that cross-connect could be shorting +12V from the PSU to chassis ground through the hub (depending on how it is wired and connects to the chassis). 

Ohm's Law (I=E/R) tells us when voltage (electromotive force or "E") remains constant, and resistance (R) drops (as with a short), current (I) must go up. If that is the situation here, then that short will create an excessive current situation that is sensed by the power supply, which then shuts down for self protection, and to protect the devices powered by it. 



> To clarify I believe that the fan-hub, not as designed, was drawing all its power entirely from a SYSFAN slot on the motherboard.


And if connected to the PSU through a PSU cable too, then that may certainly be your problem. 

HOPEFULLY, just unplugging the system fan connection will clear the short, and the PSU, not sensing any issues, will fire up properly. If a budget PSU, I would be concerned permanent damage has occurred. With this quality PSU, I am hopeful clearing the miswired fan connections will fix your problem. 

I have a case that uses a similar hub - and decided it was more a gimmick than an asset and decided not to use it because it actually created more of a cable rat's nest than powering fans normally. Poor cable management can adversely affect the desired front-to-back flow of cool air through a case. 



greenbrucelee said:


> if the spike goes to another part of the pc


Huh? What spike? There is no indication anywhere of problems with spikes, surges, dips or sags. 



> the cpu isn't getting the correct voltage so you could call it a dip I suppose.


No, that's not what a dip is. As I noted above, a voltage "dip" is the opposite of a spike. And a spike is an unwanted, rapid, and excessive rise in voltage, that decreases back down to normal voltage just as quickly. This is different from a surge in that surges are slower to rise, don't typically rise to the same potentials (voltage levels), tend to stay high for a duration of time, then slowly decay back to normal levels. 

Again, a dip is the opposite of a spike. So a dip (also called "dropouts") is a rapid drop or loss of voltage that quickly returns to normal. A sag is the opposite of surge. So a sag would be long duration (compared to dips) low voltage event. A long duration sag on the power grid would result in what is commonly called a "brown out" - as opposed to a blackout. 

The CPU not getting enough voltage is just low voltage, not a "dip". 
__________________


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

@Bill: Would you deem it safe to test the computer now properly wired up? Presuming the click is some audible relay working properly and the "failed selftest" human error.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> @Bill: Would you deem it safe to test the computer now properly wired up?


I am "guessing" it would be safe. But if me, I would at least connect one of those testers I linked to before to see if the PSU fires up, and stays running with the tester before using my CPU, RAM, motherboard, graphics card, and drives as guinea pigs. If the tester shows the PSU is good, then I would "deem it safe" to test the computer with this supply.

The problem is, though perhaps a slim chance, there is a chance permanent damage occurred to the PSU. I would hate to say it is safe without proper testing only to find out the damaged PSU took out the rest of your computer.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*



Bill_Bright said:


> I am "guessing" it would be safe. But if me, I would at least connect one of those testers I linked to before to see if the PSU fires up, and stays running with the tester before using my CPU, RAM, motherboard, graphics card, and drives as guinea pigs. If the tester shows the PSU is good, then I would "deem it safe" to test the computer with this supply.
> 
> The problem is, though perhaps a slim chance, there is a chance permanent damage occurred to the PSU. I would hate to say it is safe without proper testing only to find out the damaged PSU took out the rest of your computer.


The PSU's selftest shows that it works, now when I calmly rested it again, there were no issues at all.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Meant "tested" not "rested" previously.

Also since the PSU has protection systems(according to manual) against this kind of thing, it should be fine, shouldn't it?


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> Also since the PSU has protection systems(according to manual) against this kind of thing, it should be fine, shouldn't it?


"Should" is the key word. "Should" does not mean "will". 

You are assuming the PSU's protection system is still functioning properly, and was not damaged during this ordeal. Understand, many protection systems sacrifice themselves in order to save the device. A fuse is a perfect example. Surge and Spike protectors will (or "should") fry before letting a destructive anomaly through. 

I guess you need to decide just how "lucky" you are. 

Because a bad PSU can, in extreme cases, take out anything connected to it, and because I cannot afford to be impatient and toast a motherboard, CPU, etc. just to satisfy my curiosity, as I noted above, I would at least connect that PSU to one of those testers or have a pro test it. The only other alternative for me would be to try that PSU in an old computer I would not mind (too much) if destroyed. 

Again, I am guessing all is fine and you can use this PSU safely. But I cannot say for certain at this point. 

I remind you we are not talking about just low DC voltages here. Anything that plugs into the wall can kill. There are deadly potentials inside a PC PSU.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

I see what you mean, and as the computer is not mine I don't think I can risk it. I contacted Corsair about my idiocy and they practically said "OK, send it over anyways and you'll get a new PSU", almost as if they just don't care about _how_ the PSU got problems.

Anyhow, I have rewired all the cables so that they now are 100% correctly put in when the new PSU arrives, and I know what to look out for in the future.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Please keep us posted. I would like to hear that all is okay.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Corsair still offers great support even after changing to lower quality suppliers.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Lower quality suppliers does not automatically mean lower quality parts or assembly techniques ARE being used. It is still the Corsair name on the product, and Corsair stands behind their name, and products.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Power loss issue*

corsairs RMAs have almost doubled since going to the lower quality manufacturers just like Antecs did when they did the same thing (although Antec have seen the light now). It won't be lopng before corsair do too.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> corsairs RMAs have almost doubled


Oh? Got a link to a real source to back up that claim?


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Power loss issue*

I could get my old work to fax me the info, scan it and post it


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Your old work? Is your old work a Corsair authorized repair center or authorized Corsair reseller? 

Antec RMAs went up because they changed designs are started specifying cheaper parts - not because they picked a different OEM supplier. 

Also, Corsair sells skyrocketed so returns would naturally rise too. 

In order for your claims to be valid, you need to show where Corsair failure rates (the percentage sold vs failures) has doubled. Otherwise, it is just repeating unsubstantiated rumors.

But so we don't run this thread OT, I started a thread on this topic: Corsair and OEM suppliers . And note I researched before I said, in that thread, _"There is no evidence whatsoever that Corsair changing sources has resulted in more broken Corsair PSUs, lousy assembly techniques, bad "fit and finish", etc."_


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Power loss issue*



Bill_Bright said:


> Your old work? Is your old work a Corsair authorized repair center or authorized Corsair reseller?
> 
> Antec RMAs went up because they changed designs are started specifying cheaper parts - not because they picked a different OEM supplier.
> 
> ...


we tested them along side other makes, I could try and contact corsair in the Netherlands which is corsairs Europe base and see what they say, although I might not get far.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> although I might not get far.


That would be hearsay, but nevertheless, I agree. They are not going to tell you their failure rate - they don't know if you work for TT or Antec or Seasonic. 

Compounding the problem is retailers who keep track of returns typically include the "many" returns in those figures that were because it was the wrong part, wrong size, wrong color, etc. - NOT because the product was DOE or failed within the warranty period. Plus, many perfectly good products are returned because the user thought it was bad, but it wasn't.



> we tested them along side other makes


Again, that is not valid without knowing total tested of each brand vs total failed. That would be like saying Hitachi HDs are better than Western Digital because you see a lot more failed WD drives. You cannot ignore the fact WD makes _many times_ more drives than Hitachi (forgetting for the moment that Hitachi is now owned by WD! )


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Rats! Sorry strongdoctor. Your thread, your topic.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*



Bill_Bright said:


> Rats! Sorry strongdoctor. Your thread, your topic.


No problem, interesting to read


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Simple solution to minimize concern....stay with top quality.............SeaSonic-XFX-Antec HCG.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

To update on the issue I'm correcting some bad information I gave earlier. I don't seem to have had the Fan Hub connected to the motherboard. I do not understand how the Fan Hub got power to begin with (12V+Ground from PSU connected to OUTPUT 3pin-fan slot). 

The case's 2 separate electrical systems(Fan Hub and IO-Panel LED) are powered by the same Molex 4-pin Adapter (LED Gets 5V+Ground, Fan Hub supposed to get 12V+Ground through 3-pin INPUT connector)

Is there a way I could check if I have damaged the case's built-in electrical system (circuit boards etc)? I can provide images if necessary.

By now this thread is straying a bit away from "Power Supplies", but I figure that since it has to do with power, and the original issue was the PSU, it would be okay to keep the thread here, wouldn't it?

Also on the RMA process: I got sick on Friday so I have to mail the PSU tomorrow instead. 

Thank you for any assistance.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> By now this thread is straying a bit


Perhaps, but you are the thread starter and this problem is related to the initial problem.


> Is there a way I could check if I have damaged the case's built-in electrical system (circuit boards etc)? I can provide images if necessary


Is there a circuit board? It sounded like this hub just splits and distributes power. So all should need to do is connect power to the proper inputs, then use a voltmeter to see if you have power on the outputs.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Okay, unscrewed the case's integrated fan-hub. It does indeed seem to just split power, and looked intact. 
Also checked the IO-plate-LED-thingy in the case, seemed intact too, and I had no problems with it to begin with so I'm not worrying too much about that, but as I do have a good multimeter at hand I will check voltages on the fan connectors when I get the new power supply.

Will mail the package today and call Corsair in the evening in order to get an Express RMA.

Also, as the incorrectly connected fan-hub never was connected to the mobo, and the BIOS/UEFI voltage-meter looked fine, do I at all have to worry about damage to other components, presuming the PSU cut power before bad things could happen to it?


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> do I at all have to worry about damage to other components


"At all" have to worry? When the new PSU arrives, I recommend you still triple check to make sure all is wired correctly, cross your fingers and toes, and if so inclined, say a little prayer before pressing the power button. 

I think because it is a Corsair and not some no-name generic, odds are very much in your favor all will be okay.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

*Re: Power loss issue*



Bill_Bright said:


> triple check to make sure all is wired correctly, cross your fingers and toes, and if so inclined, say a little prayer before pressing the power button.
> very much in your favor all will be okay.


Judging by how much stress this ordeal has caused me, I better


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Power loss issue*

For future reference, before assembling any components in the case, test on the bench.
It can save a lot of time and avoid problems.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> For future reference, before assembling any components in the case, test on the bench.
> It can save a lot of time and avoid problems.


Great advice! Sadly, it is common for new builders, and distracted experienced builders alike, to insert more motherboard standoffs in the case than the motherboard has mounting holes - shorting out the motherboard when power is applied. Not good. 

Assembling on a large wooden cutting/bread board ensures all works BEFORE mounting in the case. Plus, you have lots more elbow room outside the case. Mounting a CPU heatsink assembly or installing RAM for example, while the motherboard is mounted in the case can be a challenge when your own hands are blocking your view. Plus you can much more closely examine the motherboard connectors to become familiar with their location and connector orientation (especially the two power on pins of the front panel power button which you will need to short together to signal the system to start). 

Note I said wooden cutting/breadboard because they are not "finished" with paint or varnish, or printer's ink (like the box the motherboard came in) that "might" conduct electricity instead of being an insulator. Plain brown cardboard can be good too. Vinyl flooring or carpeting would be very bad as extreme static potentials may be present.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Power loss issue*

Just use the box the Mobo came in to bench test on.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> Just use the box the Mobo came in to bench test on.


That can be a problem. As I noted above,


> printer's ink (like the box the motherboard came in) that "might" conduct electricity instead of being an insulator


Ink formulas vary as much as the colors used on boxes and often contain conductive materials like carbon, lead, silver and "heavy metals" that conduct, or partially conduct electricity. 

Admittedly, the dried ink does NOT make a "great" conductor, so the low voltages seen on a _properly functioning_ motherboard most likely will not present a problem. But because there are many unknowns, I personally don't recommend taking the chance - especially since we don't know where the motherboard boxes are printed (if that even matters), or the ink formulas used on them. 

Oh, and note those anti-static bags many motherboards, graphics cards etc. come in generally come in two varieties, but the most common have a highly conductive "outer" layer designed to "shunt" or carry any static electricity around and past the bag protecting the contents within due to the "skin effect" of the bag. Skin effect is a characteristic of electricity where the vast majority of the current flows in the outer surfaces of a conductor. This is why inside your car is one of the safest places to be during a lightning storm. So don't use those bags either - except to store unused boards. 

While skin effect mostly deals with AC and not the DC voltages normally seen on computer motherboards, there typically are AC components ("noise" and other anomalies) riding the DC. Ripple being the most common. There is always ripple present in the output side of computer PSUs. The better PSUs offer much greater suppression than budget PSUs, but we must NOT assume our high-end PSUs are working as designed and advertised either - at least not without proper testing first - something most users are not properly trained, or equipped to do. 

Also, ink pigment ingredients such as p-Anisidine are commonly used to make the printed surfaces shine. p-Anisidine, when exposed to excessive heat, can release highly toxic fumes. In the unfortunate circumstance you happen to have a faulty motherboard, a "short" (drop in resistance) WILL (as dictated by Ohm's Law) cause an increase in current in the circuit which WILL lead to excessive heat at one or more points on the motherboard (until [hopefully] some protection device/circuit kills power). Should that "hot spot" expose p-Anisidine to high heat while you are leaning over your motherboard, you may be exposed to those very toxic fumes. 

Are these rare and maybe extreme cases? Admittedly, yes. But they are very real possibilities that can affect our _personal safety_ and the safety of our expensive computer electronics. So why risk it? It is like driving around without insurance. Chances are you won't get in an accident, but then again... ! 

Plain, brown, uncoated shipping paper is great. So is a wood cutting board or wooded work bench. Or the inside (unprinted) side of a brown paper bag will work too.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Power loss issue*

I've built several hundred PC's using the Mobo box and have yet to have any problems.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> I've built several hundred PC's using the Mobo box and have yet to have any problems.


As I noted, they "most likely" will not present a problem - *IF* everything is working properly - that is, no physical damage - especially to the PSU where deadly potentials do exist. I personally have not seen problems using motherboard boxes either but in tech school when studying OSHA safety standards for electronics repair facilities, "finished" work surfaces were discussed in detail - and are to be avoided when working on "live" electronics because so many finishes are not high impedance insulators, but instead, do conduct electricity. By "finished", I mean like dinning room tables, kitchen counters, painted or covered wood surfaces, and printed/coated paper and cardboard surfaces like newspapers, magazines, and many cardboard boxes. And this is because we, as users, don't know if these finishes conduct or not. So to avoid the risk altogether, plain, unfinished, non-conducting wood is best. 

And again, it will not be a problem with the DC voltages found on a motherboard, but can be a problem with higher, deadly, and exposed voltages as present in a PSU - and as MAY be present with a faulty PSU. 

And that is also where the problem is - assuming the PSU is working properly and has not been damaged via abuse, rough handling, or manufacturing defect. 

I note most motherboard boxes unfold - exposing the unfinished interior surface of the cardboard. If the use of a motherboard box is desired, then I would urge everyone to unfold the box and use the unfinished interior surfaces. Also, unfolded should allow the PSU to sit on a unfinished, non-conductive surface too. A good thing!


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Power loss issue*



Tyree said:


> I've built several hundred PC's using the Mobo box and have yet to have any problems.


I have also always used the motherboard box and never had any issues. I tip the box upside down or if its a box that is designed to fold flat for building on it then I use that.

I always make sure the part of the box I am using is not painted in vinyl or anything like that. Failing that I just use a plain sheet of cardboard.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Power loss issue*



> I always make sure the part of the box I am using is not painted in vinyl or anything like that.


:thumb: Yeah! That works!



> Failing that I just use a plain sheet of cardboard.


:thumb: Yeah! That works too!

One reason I really like and recommend using a bread/cutting board is, besides no chance of any electrical conduction through paint, ink or other finishes, is the board is heavy and not likely to slide about if I bump it. Plus the board I use (which is one of those 16" x 22" slide out kitchen boards that typically fit in a slot over a drawer) is large enough to put both the motherboard and PSU on the non-conducting wood. Then if I do bump it, they move together and if I need to move everything, I can easily pick up the board with the assembled [outside the case] computer without disturbing any connection. Plus, mine has a nice groove cut in it to catch juices that is handy to keep standoffs and screws from wondering off.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

Received the PSU today, going to put everything together and see how it works.


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## strongdoctor (Sep 22, 2014)

Update: This far it's working good, passes stress-testes as before, no crash this far.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

glad to see it working.


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## DgoTech970 (Oct 22, 2014)

Hi, I was just wondering if everything is still working properly as I am having the same exact problem, and I would like to know if your replacement AX860i is running as it should. I have had to RMA 5 Corsair PSUs in the past 6 months all with different issues and am worried this replacement will have the same problem. Thanks


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

DgoTech970 said:


> Hi, I was just wondering if everything is still working properly as I am having the same exact problem, and I would like to know if your replacement AX860i is running as it should. I have had to RMA 5 Corsair PSUs in the past 6 months all with different issues and am worried this replacement will have the same problem. Thanks


as I mentioned in a previous thread or it could have been this one. The quality of corsair power supplies has gone down lately due to them switching from a good manufacturer to a lower quality manufacturer.

If you can when you do your RMA ask for a refund and go for seasonic, xfx or Antec High Current Gamer. They all use seasonics psu design and capacitors and are high quality.

Seasonic used to do the corsair HX650 and the AX and TX units but that is no longer the case.


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## DgoTech970 (Oct 22, 2014)

Yeah I have been seeing that alot and in my personal experience seems to be the case, I have been considering getting a refund a few RMAs ago and now I see it as my only option. Im looking into Seasonic as well as the EVGA SuperNova series, I hear alot of good things about them. Thanks for the reply


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

seasonic are the best (xfx and antec hcg are made by them), then the next best are the high end superflower. Not heard much about the EVGA SuperNovas so cant comment.


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## DgoTech970 (Oct 22, 2014)

Looks like Ill be getting a Seasonic, I have been leaning that way for a while after everything I have read. Thank you for the input, I feel confident in Seasonic delivering a worthy product


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

never had one fail on me, never had one that went bad when I was testing them their limits either.


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## DgoTech970 (Oct 22, 2014)

Great to hear, I had 6 Cosair PSUs fail or have issues in the last 6 months, what do you think of the SeaSonic Platinum-1000, I think its the one Im going with


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

if you need that much power then go for it, most seasonic psu have an efficiency from 85-95%

They are all good though.


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## DgoTech970 (Oct 22, 2014)

Ok great, I thank you for assuring me of my choice. I need the extra power for future gtx 780 sli and custom cooling loop


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

ok good luck.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

1000W is severe overkill. A good quality 650W PSU is fine for a GTX 780 GPU.
If you get to the point of needing better graphics, one better GPU is almost always a better option than two lesser GPU's. Two GPU's require/consume more power, generate more unneeded heat in the case and you get a small performance increase in the games/apps that can utilize two GPU's.


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## DgoTech970 (Oct 22, 2014)

Tyree said:


> 1000W is severe overkill. A good quality 650W PSU is fine for a GTX 780 GPU.
> If you get to the point of needing better graphics, one better GPU is almost always a better option than two lesser GPU's. Two GPU's require/consume more power, generate more unneeded heat in the case and you get a small performance increase in the games/apps that can utilize two GPU's.


I realize that and thank you, but there is not much more powerful cards at this price point and my need for SLI is to push 3 144hz monitors in Nvidia surround, so I think the 1000w because I overclock CPU and GPU and plan to do 3way SLI
and will be running a custom cooling loop


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