# PSU may be failing(not sure)



## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

In this thread: http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f217/computer-randomly-resetting-crashing-815682.html I had a issue with something causing my pc to crash, in the end we concluded it was a faulty PSU. Which was probably true since i sent it to Seasonic and they did give me a new one. But i just got a crash in the exact same way about 6 days after i received the new power supply and installed it. The event viewer is showing the same fatal error. Im doing virus/malware scans now to be sure they arent the problem. This crash has only happened once but im not going to wait until this starts happening several times a week to post the problem. Here's my build:

Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit SP1
Chassis: CFI "CFI-B1010"
Case Fans: Cooler Master "R4-L2R-20AC-GP"(4X)
Motherboard: Gigabyte "GA-990FXA-UD3"
CPU: AMD "FD6300WMHKBOX"
CPU Fan: Cooler Master "RR-212E-20PK-R2"
HDD: Seagate "ST1000DM003"
RAM: G.Skill "F3-14900CL9D-8GBXL"
GPU: Asus "HD7770-2GD5"
PSU: Seasonic "M12II 620 Bronze"


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Please preform a hard drive test using this guide here: 

How to perform a Seagate's Seatools Test | Tech Support Forum


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

The test couldn't find any hard drives. I even checked connections and nothings wrong. Is it possible that while this PSU was faulty it damaged the hard drive? I should mention that it took several attempts to boot the pc after trying the test. As if the test caused damage to the HDD. Although I doubt that.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

No. It does not mean that unless the PC isn't booting to Windows.

What are the voltages looking like in the BIOS?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Ill look at that now.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Here are the voltages:

CPU Vcore: 1.32v
Dram: 1.476v
+3.3v: 3.363
+5v: 4.980
+12v: 12.024
Ill also include temperatures:

CPU Temp: 28.0'C
System Temp: 29.0'C


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

What was the result of the virus scans?

Does it crash in safe mode?

Any BSODs?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

No viruses were found, haven't tested safe mode. Mainly because it can take hours or even days for it to crash again. There aren't any visible BSOD's, I forgot how to check if there are any.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

The crash is instant correct? No slow downs, or warnings?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Nope, just a complete shut down as if I held down the power button long enough to force shut down. Its also not the power or reset button as ive tested them in the past when this problem was existent.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Does the PC restart or remain off after the shutdown?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Restarts, it doesn't even seems as though the fans turn off(the LED's don't turn off)


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

When's the last time you did a BIOS update or a driver update?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Since I built this computer, which was around 3 and a half months ago.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Download and run AutoRuns from here:

Autoruns for Windows

Then under the driver tab see if there are any drivers in red.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I already have AutoRuns on my system so I ran it. There were 3 yellow listings and several reds, ill list the reds below:

 ASGT
Asus Product Register Service
\Microsoft\Windows\NetTrace\GathernetworkInfo
ATI Ticker
MMACE Deinterlace
MMACE ProcAmp
MMACE SoftEmu
 
Here are the 3 yellow listings:
 Internet Explorer
gdrv
RTHDMIAxAudService


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Does this folder exist in your Windows drive?

C:\Windows\Minidump


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

yes it does, also as for the issue that on my other thread, im not sure if they are related. Which is why I posted in the other thread. One problem where my pc is freezing and then one where its restarting. Ill also say that starting the computer ahs become a hassle...again... It takes 2-5 attempts to start it up now.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Could you create a copy of the folder then zip the folder and attach it to your next reply?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Umm, I didn't bother to look inside the folder. But before I was going to zip a copy of it I noticed it doesn't even have files in it...


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

Masterchiefxx17 said:


> Could you create a copy of the folder then zip the folder and attach it to your next reply?


Probably better to follow 1 > 5 from the BSOD sticky, that'd give us verified Autoruns output, System logs, dump files, MSInfo32 data and more: http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...tions-windows-8-1-8-0-7-and-vista-452654.html


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

If you go to your start menu and paste in the following then hit enter:

*SystemPropertiesAdvanced.exe* 

Under the advanced tab and then settings under startup and recovery:










What does it have listed under "Write debugging Information"?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

satrow said:


> Probably better to follow 1 > 5 from the BSOD sticky, that'd give us verified Autoruns output, System logs, dump files, MSInfo32 data and more: http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...tions-windows-8-1-8-0-7-and-vista-452654.html


I was getting there. I wanted to see the output before I bother with that as he states no BSOD is even displaying on the screen.

Please also go ahead and follow that Satrow said as well.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Sorry for late response, a storm is coming through my area and I have satellite internet... Anyways ill attach the "Windows7_Vista_jcgriff2" folder now. In response to post #22, (none), Small memory dump(256KB), and Kernel Memory Dump. It is currently set on Kernel Memory Dump. The Dump File has "%SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP" as the text. Overwrite existing file is checked.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

Could you compress and upload a copy of C:Windows/MEMORY.DMP to somewhere publicly accessible like Skydrive (or w/e it's called now), please, link it back here. It would be useful to see what a crash on the old PSU looked like.

Next, set the System to save minidumps without any overwrite: http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...-computer-is-set-to-collect-dumps-655633.html

Do you have anything overclocked? If so, please drop back to stock settings during troubleshooting.

What date did you fit the new PSU? During April, I see crashes/issues with Java and IE, in previous months, the problems logged were mainly AMD Fuel.

Have you done a Malwarebytes scan? If not, could you do one, please - if you get any hits, please don't action anything, attach the log here first.

The Application Event logs show what appears to be a conflict between Norton and the native firewall, please fully uninstall all Symantec/Norton products (save copies of any license keys first), follow the instructions here: https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/kb20080710133834EN_EndUserProfile_en_us

Once Norton has been removed, enable the Windows firewall and install MSE during testing: Microsoft Security Essentials - Microsoft Windows

The filtered Autoruns wasn't collected (maybe downloaded to the wrong folder or the BSOD App wasn't run as Administrator?), could you carefully work through the download/collection process again, please, once done, zip the Autoruns.arn file only and attach it.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Could I just add the MEMORY.dmp file into a folder, compress it then send it here? I'd rather not deal with file sharing websites now, if I have to then I will. 

I set the minidumps to NOT overwrite now.

Nothing is overclocked.

I installed the new PSU on April 18th this year. Ive disabled the AMD Fuel service now as I recall some people saying it conflicts with something.

My last malwarebytes scan was around 2 or 3 days ago, ill scan again however I doubt this is malware causing the problem.

How can Norton be conflicting with Windows firewall? Ive disabled the firewall since I got the new psu. Will MSE provide equivalent protection compared to Norton?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

just noticed the malwarebytes scan is stopping really early, im guessing that normal since Norton does that too with trusted files


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

Could you attach any logs from Malwarebytes, please?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Where would I find those?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...and-use-malwarebytes-anti-malware-828818.html


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay I believe this is the log youre looking for.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

That looks clean enough, looks like it completed to me (V2x of MBAM is hard to compare with V1x when it comes to scan times, a lot has changed under the hood).

Kernel dumps are simply too big to attach to a forum post, can you zip and uploaded it to a file sharing site, please.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Is this the file sharing site?

https://onedrive.live.com/about/en-us/


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

Yes, it's effectively the old Skydrive, ensure that the dump is publicly accessible and post the URL back here please.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay well I forgot where the dump file(s) I need is located...


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

C:Windows/MEMORY.DMP ?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Alright I believe ive uploaded to the correct area. 

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=A340D894D2189C42%21105


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

Got it, thanks.

Unfortunately, I get an "Probably caused by : Unknown_Image ( ANALYSIS_INCONCLUSIVE )" from this 0x1E KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED. This bugcheck type could be caused by driver/hardware/Service/memory/BIOS ... almost anything.

I do see some potentially 'bad' drivers loaded:
*nusb3hub.sys Fri Nov 19 01:34:24 2010 (4CE5D420)*
NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller Driver (previous BSOD issues with 2010 and earlier versions)
http://www.carrona.org/drivers/driver.php?id=*nusb3hub.sys*

*nusb3xhc.sys Fri Nov 19 01:34:25 2010 (4CE5D421)*
NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller Driver (previous BSOD issues with 2010 and earlier versions)
http://www.carrona.org/drivers/driver.php?id=*nusb3xhc.sys*

Also some 'older' 3rd party drivers that need to be updated:
Rt64win7.sys Tue Aug 23 14:55:41 2011 (4E53B15D)
Realtek RTL8168D/8111D Family PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC
http://www.carrona.org/drivers/driver.php?id=*Rt64win7.sys*

Please update the above drivers.

I'll ask another analyst to look in here, he may be able to dig out further clues.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

The download links for the realtek drivers aren't working. As for the usb 3.0 host controller I cant get out of the login page so I cant even search anything... If the USB driver is for a external card I can just uninstall that but I cannot find where my drivers are located.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

Realtek drivers: ftp://WebUser:[email protected]/cn/nic/Driver_Win7_7080_03212014.zip <- that's the HK1 direct link where I was successful. 

For the Renesas USB drivers, "Try OEM first" - that'll be the Gigabyte support site for your GA-990FXA-UD3.


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## Patrick (Apr 15, 2012)

Hi,

I've been asked to come take a look.

First off, this dump is about 50% corrupt, likely a triage dump aka snapshot due to the system not completing dump process gracefully. I can't really get any info, *ln *on 2nd parameter won't work, not even a !thread to dump a raw stack.

*KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED (1e)*

_This indicates that a kernel-mode program generated an exception which the error handler did not catch._

BugCheck 1E, {ffffffffc000001d, fffff88000000103, 0, fffffa8003d1fe00}

1st parameter = 0xc000001d which indicates that an attempt was made to execute an illegal instruction. This mostly occurs when there's a hardware problem or an illegal jmp is made and it does not make the CPU happy.

At this point I'd dump the registers and check for an illegal jmp, etc, however I cannot as I mentioned above. Cannot really go further than this.

*---------------------*

*FWIW, *this + the fact that your system is shutting down as if you held down the power button, this is either a faulty PSU, CPU, or motherboard. I'd go with the PSU first, because I cannot check for evidence regarding the latter given there's not much debugging to be done.

Regards,

Patrick


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## Patrick (Apr 15, 2012)

Also, if you can, please ensure all of these settings are in-place:

*1.* Windows key + Pause key. This should bring up System. Click Advanced System Settings on the left > Advanced > Performance > Settings > Advanced > Ensure there's a check-mark for 'Automatically manage paging file size for all drives'.

*2.* Windows key + Pause key. This should bring up System. Click Advanced System Settings on the left > Advanced > Startup and Recovery > Settings > System Failure > ensure there is a check mark next to 'Write an event to the system log'. 

Ensure Kernel-dump is selected.

*3.* Double check that the WERS is ENABLED:

Start > Search > type services.msc > Under the name tab, find Windows Error Reporting Service > If the status of the service is not Started then right click it and select Start. Also ensure that under Startup Type it is set to Automatic rather than Manual. You can do this by right clicking it, selecting properties, and under General selecting startup type to 'Automatic', and then click Apply. 

Regards,

Patrick


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

> 1st parameter = 0xc000001d which indicates that an attempt was made to execute an illegal instruction. This mostly occurs when there's a hardware problem or an illegal jmp is made and it does not make the CPU happy.
> 
> At this point I'd dump the registers and check for an illegal jmp, etc, however I cannot as I mentioned above. Cannot really go further than this.


 PSU should be performing normally as the BIOS is reporting stable voltages for the OP:

CPU Vcore: 1.32v
Dram: 1.476v
+3.3v: 3.363
+5v: 4.980
+12v: 12.024

As there are no programs that I know of to test motherboards or CPUs, I would say the motherboard is providing the issue. CPUs are so highly manufactured that their failure rate is low.

Motherboard + PC shutdown sounds about right for a failing board. Good news is that the motherboard should be covered under warranty.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Alright seeing all these new relies ill start with #40 then work up to #43.

#40: I went to Gigabyte's site and installed what should be the USB 3.0 controller. As for the realtek driver download, I did get it but it doesn't seem to have application or executable file in it and im unsure how to install it manually.

#41: I doubt its a faulty PSU due to the fact that I DID have a faulty PSU, but I returned it to Seasonic and got a new one. Unless they sent me yet another faulty one. Also, since my last report or the pc shutting down it hasn't done it since. However, it has frozen many...MANY times. If it is another faulty power supply would I even be able to return it? Lastly, "At this point I'd dump the registers and check for an illegal jmp, etc". I have no idea how to do this or even what a "illegal jmp" would look like.

#42: 1. That was already checked. 2. That was checked as I told to do earlier. 3. This wasn't enabled or set for automatic, so I started the service and made it automatic.

#43: I believe when we concluded that my previous PSU was faulty the voltages were normal as well. In the event this is a failed motherboard, will I have to get a new copy of windows 7? Considering that my current copy will be locked into this one? Also will I be forced to format my hard drive during a Operating System installation?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Seasonic will replace the PSU again if it has failed.

If Gigabyte sends you an identical motherboard back then you do not need to reinstall Windows.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay so all we need to find out is if it's hardware causing the problem(again), then which piece or hardware it is so I can send it back, although im going to be frustrated not having a pc AGAIN for a week or two depending on who I have to send it back to.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Please preform a MemTest86+ test using this guide here: 

How to perform a MemTest86+ Test | Tech Support Forum


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I tried using this through usb drive since I have no blank cd's and it gets stuck its loading screen, it starts off black and white then after around 10 mintues goes red and blue and stays there, I left it like this for another 50 minutes and nothing...


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Just to be sure this was a corrupted download I reinstalled it on the flash drive but this did not change the result. I even tried running it several times but nothing changes.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

It may want to be ran on a CD instead.

It was only a test to see if the memory was a fault, but I don't think it is.

You could try testing the GPU next by removing it for a little bit and seeing if it shuts down.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Well would a freeze by caused by the same thing? Because my computer hasn't shut down in a long time it just freezes a lot now.


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## jimscreechy (Jan 7, 2005)

Do you have a DVD Drive and/or a Card reader on this PC?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Project_06 said:


> Well would a freeze by caused by the same thing? Because my computer hasn't shut down in a long time it just freezes a lot now.


Hard drive could do this but the test showed that the HDD was working correctly.

Unless you have a WD HDD?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I was tempted to buy a card reader but I don't really have a cards that need to be... read... and yes I do have a cd drive. 

I have a Seagate HDD for sure. So that problem was supposed to not find my hard drive? I thought that was a error. Also for testing the GPU, are you saying that I should start up the pc without the GPU and wait to see if it freezes? Is it possible that this HDD is glitching because it was the Hard Drive that came with my Dell Inspiron 570 that I bought a few years ago, when I built this pc I just formatted the main partition on this HDD and used it. I saw that there were two other patitions but I could only format them, I couldn't remove them. I learned that one of these partitions was actually the recovery data for the Dell pc but all of that information was deleted so I don't think it could influence this computer anymore.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

That's right...It didn't find the drive, I forgot about that.

Have you tried to run a CHKDSK in Windows?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

No I haven't, if there anything special to running it or do I just run it like any other program?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Go to Start > Type CMD > Right Click on Command Prompt and press Run as Admin. > In the popup window type CHKDSK /r > Then type Y for selecting yes > Restart the PC and allow Windows to run CHKDSK.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay ive run the CHKDSK program, ill show some of the information I recorded:

-300032 file records processed
-2540 Large file records processed
-0 Bad file records
-0 EA records
-44 Reparse Records

-388364 Index Entries
-0 Unindexed Files scanned
-0 Unindexed Files recovered

-300032 File SD's/SID's
- 44167 Data Files

-36581984 USN Bytes

-300016 Files Verified

There was a number for the number of "clusters" checked but I couldn't get it down since as soon as it finished the pc reset.


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## jimscreechy (Jan 7, 2005)

Can you disconnect the CD drive (both power and data connectors) and run the pc without it for a while and see if this changes changes anything.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I suppose I can for awhile I rarely use it anyways.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I should probably mention that there have been a few shutdowns again, however these happened before I disconnected the CD Drive so im still waiting to see if I get another freeze/shutdown.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Let's hope not and see if this is what is causing the issue.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

well unfortunately it isn't, upon starting up my system this morning it froze before entering the welcome screen.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Do you have anything important on the OS? You may want to see if a reinstall fixes the issue. :ermm:


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Well ill have to redownload about 300 gigabytes of data... If reinstalling Windows 7 is just a guess I'd rather not do it yet.

EDIT: Actually that number can be bumped up to around 500GB since ive used 659GB of my HDD.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Maybe that isn't an option then.

I'm not really seeing any hardware issues. Perhaps the motherboard but I am not sure.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Well are there any more diagnostics than I can perform? Even though it seems that nearly every programs ive tried has apparently failed... I would prefer it be a software issue than a hardware problem but I don't want to do a total reinstall unless im 100% sure its the OS that's the problem.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Are all your drivers up-to-date?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

By checking through the device manager I believe they may be, but if the device manager isn't a good source for checking driver version then what is?


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## Panther063 (Jul 13, 2009)

Have a look at windows update and through the list of optional updates, unless you manually select them a lot don't get included.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Project_06 said:


> I would prefer it be a software issue than a hardware problem but I don't want to do a total reinstall unless im 100% sure its the OS that's the problem.


Have you considered a System Restore to a point before any problems were experienced?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Honestly I cant even remember when these issues started... I feel like they always existed since I built the pc but it wasn't so out of control that I cared about it. As for the optional updates there are 11, 1 for my printer and then 10 for windows. Im going to install them now.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

These updates didn't help, I just got another freeze.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Project_06 said:


> By checking through the device manager I believe they may be, but if the device manager isn't a good source for checking driver version then what is?


 Device manager is not the best place to check that. You need to check each version number in device manager with the manufacturers website of your PC.

Do you happen to have a NVidia or AMD GPU driver installed?



Project_06 said:


> These updates didn't help, I just got another freeze.


You did some Windows Updates?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Im using AMD Graphics right now, i just realized that Nvidia PhysX is installed on this pc, i don't understand why that is since ive never even visited a Nvidia website


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I believe that my AMD Graphics driver could've been out of date. I tried using the auto detect program but it of course couldn't download the recommended driver so i went off and got it myself.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Remove all traces of the Nvidia driver and reinstall your AMD driver to the latest.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay ive done it, now to just wait and see.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Alright well even after doing this I still have the issue. The pc has begun to shut down randomly again, nearly as often as it freezes. If its guaranteed that the problem isn't hardware then ill go ahead with a total wipeout. If theres any question that its a piece of hardware however then that's not going to happen.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Do you have a spare hard drive?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I have a really old 70GB hard drive somewhere in my house... However ive been considering buying a 1TB portable hard drive as a backup for a situation such as this.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Looking around in the event viewer I found this odd error that I'd like to understand, so I've added a screenshot of it as an attachment. It said to check System/Application logs and since this was in the Application Log I checked the system log and found a related error:

"An I/O operation initiated by the Registry failed unrecoverably.The Registry could not flush hive (file): '\??\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCopy5\Users\default\ntuser.dat'."

The source of this error is Kernel-General with event ID 6. Im curious what could be causing this and if its related to the freezes/shutdowns afflicting my pc.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

You don't use any registry cleaners do you?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

If there aren't in my system by default then no I don't.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Ignore the log for now...

How has it been after the GPU driver changes?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

No better, I actually got a "burst" of shutdowns/freezes shortly after uninstalling the NVidia driver. However I haven't received another shutdown or freeze since, but that still isn't convincing me that it's fixed.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

See how tomorrow goes. Let me know if it happens after the Nvidia driver was installed, AMD drivers were reinstalled, and the PC received a restart.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Alright I assume you mean after the Nvidia drivers were UNinstalled. As for reinstalling the AMD drivers, do I have to uninstall the driver then install it again? Or can this be done by simply installing the latest driver without uninstalling anything?


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

Nvidia PhysX is not part of a graphics driver as such. It is used by most games to render lifelike particle movement (water, rain, snow etc) and needs to be installed on every gaming system, including those using AMD graphics. Without it, I would expect your favourite games to fail to start.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

That makes sense now because I remember some games would install something from NVidia upon starting it for the first time. I guess that something was the PhysX.


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## Panther063 (Jul 13, 2009)

If you're talking about gpu accelerated PhysX the answer is no, it can't run on an AMD card. Just don't get it confused with games that are using PhysX as their primary physics engine. for example all Unreal Engine 3.0 based games have PhysX because PhysX is the one of the core component of UE 3. but all the physics calculation are still done by cpu. the type of PhysX that nvidia usually promoting like the one in Batman Arkham series are much more advance type of PhysX that get the help from the gpu (well nvidia gpu) to calculate much more complex physics simulation.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

"Chivalry: Medieval Warfare", was the game that installed PhysX and that game uses the Unreal Engine so that means that its okay right?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I just went over to a friends house with my pc, after setting it up I tried to start it and it reset before getting to the welcome screen 7 times in a row. I tried a system restore and nothing, after that I opened the pc up and checking connections. everything was fine so I just changed the sata port the hard drive was plugged into and it started up just fine. I restarted the computer again to check and it started up again. Could some of the sata ports be faulty and causing theses freezes/resets?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Yes, it could be possible.

It may also be the BIOS now that you mention it.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Is there any way to confirm if its the BIOS or sata port?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

If it doesn't fail anymore then it was the SATA port.

If not update the BIOS to the latest version but be careful with this. Make sure you are using the correct BIOS.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay so wait to see if it fails again, if it does then check how to update my type of bios. If it doesn't fail again then look into returning the motherboard?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

A BIOS update will be on your motherboard manufacturer's website.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay ill be sure to do that if its ever needed.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Its not the sata ports, I got two shutdowns while trying to start up my pc this morning. I went to the manufacturers website to look at the BIOS updates and I got 4 results for my motherboard so im not quite sure which one is correct. 

GIGABYTE - Support & Downloads - Downloads

The difference between them is rev 1, rev 1.1, rev 3, rev 4. I have no idea what these mean and I'd rather not just guess at which one is the right one I need to get.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

That is for the different revisions of the board.

To find yours you need to look on the motherboard itself. It will be labeled in white text.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)




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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Ah I see, ill do that then.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay well I have the Revision 4 board but I cant seem to find out how to install these updates, I figured the exe programs that are downloaded would do it but after extracting they refuse to run saying that they aren't compatible with 64-bit windows. The problem with this is that those files are supposed to be for 64-bit windows yet they don't work.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay well I went off on my own tried a sort of program from gigabyte called @BIOS, I used it but it didn't help as I got several crashes after rebooting it. When I say several I mean I had to do a system restore in order to get it to work. I decided to record what the system restore does and it mentions something about Device\HardDisk0, the directory was D:\Windows. I seriously need to know if hardware is still in question because I cant tolerate this anymore. Im about to throw this pc across the room but if its software ill just do a clean install.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

You said you have a 70GB HDD right? Honestly, I would install Windows on that, fully update Windows, install nothing, and still see if the PC crashes.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Lets just hope I can find it.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Is it possible that its my graphics card can be causing this? I just remembered that back in September(before I built this pc but its still the same graphics card that im using) my computer would freeze on occasion, however I could just reset my monitor and it would un-freeze. So could it be that my graphics card has just run down to the point that it freezes the display permanently until I reboot? So this whole time the computer wasn't crashing but instead the display was freezing? And maybe the shutdowns are being caused my the graphics card suddenly disconnecting somehow? If theres a way to diagnose if I have faulty graphics card I'd really appreciate it if someone could tell me how.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Does your motherboard support on-board graphics?

If so just remove the GPU from the PC and run the PC using the motherboard.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Unfortunately, no it has no onboard graphics. I did find my old hard drive so at midnight tonight ill install windows on it, he reason im going to wait until then is due to my limited internet. Im not going to use up tons of my data to test something that may or may not help.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Should I post another BSOD folder? Back when I was checking the system properties I had to check "write an event to the system log". So maybe the crashes since then have been recorded?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Sure, I can see what it outputted.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Alright I believe this is the folder that you need.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

No crash dumps collected.

Let's try to rule out software involvement: uninstall Norton 360, reboot and run the SYMNRT tool: https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/kb20080710133834EN_EndUserProfile_en_us

Install MSE and ensure that Windows' own firewall is enabled. Microsoft Security Essentials - Microsoft Windows

Then uninstall AMD Fuel by starting the AMD uninstall routine in Control Panel, Programs, uninstall all but the basic AMD display drivers, no Fuel no CCC, no GPU tweaks/utilities of any sort.

Once that's done, use the PC as usual but keep notes on exactly what software you're running and exactly what you are doing when any freezes/reboots happen. Report back with as much detail as you can, we really need a lot more feedback from you - you built this rig some time ago, you're the one with a feel for it.

Still looking like hardware, a dodgy PSU might have damaged any component it was driving, motherboard, graphics, hard drive - anything.

Keep a close check on temperatures, use something like HWiNfo64, set it to run Sensors only and then set it to display HDD, motherboard and GPU temperatures, if you run any fullscreen software, run in windowed mode at a lower resolution so that you can see at least some of the Current column, check it regularly and make notes so we all get a feel of how it's running. HWiNFO, HWiNFO32/64 - Download


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay ive uninstalled Norton and installed MSE and ill get the non-essential driver softwares removed as well.

I forgot to mention that when I was looking to see if my motherboard has on-board graphics I read on the product's page(from the manufacturers website) that if youre using one GPU then you must have it inserted into the PCI-Ex16 1 Slot. When I opened my pc to install the second hard drive I checked this as well and it turns out I had it plugged into a PCI-Ex4(which was the third slot). I moved it to the first slot and upon booting the pc it had to reinstall the video drivers for some reason and then shortly after the pc crashed. However since then there hasn't been another crash.

EDIT: Look through my programs and features page in the control panel I couldn't find AMD Fuel Service, so in the meantime ive turned it off in Services and set it to manual.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I installed HWiNFO and put several temperature windows up on my screen. I noticed that a meter measuring "VRT1" is sitting at 47'C(116'F). VRT1 is under PMBus VR, I don't know what piece of hardware this is and if that temperature is high or average.

EDIT: Also my second hard drive im planning on installing Win7 on for testing is running 4 degrees higher than the my current HDD, and the drive warning is labeled as "yes" for it. Should I still consider using this HDD for testing?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

A bad PSU are known for taking GPUs with them at times so lets focus on the GPU currently.

Has it crashed at all lately?

Please run the SeaTools software on the new HDD. Also is the PC now running on that new HDD?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay well any fixes ive done so far haven't helped so its not Norton or any of those optional drivers. I don't know how to see if the GPU has crashed specifically. I think this second HDD is Maxtor, and no I couldn't get windows installed on it last night.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

Test the GPU with Furmark: Hardware Diagnostics


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I ran the test until the graph reached the end of the screen, I tried to take a screenshot but it crashed as soon as I tried. However I did record the data that was displayed:

Resolution: 1920x1080
Temperatures: Min-37'C/Max-71'C
FPS: 19
Mem: 1150 MHz
Core: 1020 MHz
GPU Usage: 99%
Fan: 69%

At the end of the test the temperature was 69'C but throughout most of the test it was at 70'C.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

I _think_ 71C is a 'safe' temp. but if you install Sapphire Trixx, you can enable higher fan speeds at lower temperatures, keeping the card cooler but creating more noise. If it still crashes yet the temp is even lower, I think that's pointing at a GPU card (_possibly_ motherboard) fault. https://www.sapphireselectclub.com/ssc/TriXX/TriXX.aspx

Do you have another card you can test with, or can you borrow one?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I had just sold my old graphics card a week ago, maybe the friend I sold it to hasn't installed it by next I can head over there and test with it for awhile.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Are you now running on a different HDD?


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay well here's a update on the situation again... first of no, I haven't switched hard drives because I have to do it later tonight which is in 4 hours. Now, I got a visible BSOD however due to my fantastic luck it occurred while I was in the bathroom. I booted my pc saw that it started, went to the bathroom then came out and saw my pc was displaying a BSOD. But as soon as I got up to the pc, it shut down.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

Run the BSOD collection app again, let's see if we have anything new.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Here is the new folder.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

Still no crash dump 

I'm still seeing the AMD Fuel and AMD Overdrive drivers/Services installed and running.

Do a full uninstall of the AMD/ATI drivers and software, and then install "drivers only"; follow the instructions here, *note* that the ATI Catalyst Uninstall Utility is no longer accessible, use the AMD Clean Uninstall Utility from the main download page instead: Download Drivers


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Okay ive done it, if you'd like to see the hefty list of programs removed ill post it up. In the mean time I will install only the essential drivers.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

AMD fuel service was still installed with the graphics drivers. How can I possibly remove this and still have actual drivers?

EDIT: I made a mistake and installed the incorrect drivers. Im going to fix it now.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Even after doing this installation stuff the pc is still crashing. Upon restarting the pc after installing ONLY the essential drivers(I checked and items such as AMD Fuel Service aren't installed) the pc shutdown 3 times before entering the welcome screen and starting up. Does this mean that its hardware for sure now?

EDIT: I need to install Catalyst Control Center because I need to be able to use the overscan feature to use the entire monitor's display.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

No BSOD outputs and drivers don't seem to be the problem. I would conclude its a hardware problem.

Since the PSU is a Seasonic unit and was just replaced the odds of it failing again are low.

It's either the GPU or Motherboard that should be replaced.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Well im sure I cant just send both components back and hope they don't charge me for sending them a functioning product. Did that FurMark program prove that my GPU is working properly? Also, is my hard drive out of the question? I keep forgetting to install windows on the second hard drive.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

You really should test Windows on that second drive.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I swear ill do it at midnight TONIGHT, I will not forget this time... For now I just want to check the status of the motherboard and graphics card.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Well its midnight, and i TRIED to install windows on the other hard drive. This was quite the little adventure trying to install it, not only did it restart while i wasnt looking and it put the last piece of windows 7 on my already in-use hard drive, after re-formatting the old hard drive so i can do a closely observed installation it then shut down unexpectedly when the installation was nearly complete. Lastly, due do the initial restart(this was a normal restart that occurred for the installation process) my in-use HDD got a half-assed second operating system on it that led the hard drive to just refuse to load either OS at all. So im using a friends pc to post this comment since the computer cant be used. Tomorrow if i can get to my other friend's house im going to just do a clean install, it kinda works out since a recent problem with the Steam client forced me to uninstall all of mey installed games(around 150GB). 

Does this mean the faulty hardware i have is the motherboard?


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## Panther063 (Jul 13, 2009)

Why didn't you disconnect the other hard drive and just do a clean install on the spare?
You should still be able to boot from the disc and reformat and install the operating system.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Project_06 said:


> Well its midnight, and i TRIED to install windows on the other hard drive. This was quite the little adventure trying to install it, not only did it restart while i wasnt looking and it put the last piece of windows 7 on my already in-use hard drive, after re-formatting the old hard drive so i can do a closely observed installation it then shut down unexpectedly when the installation was nearly complete. Lastly, due do the initial restart(this was a normal restart that occurred for the installation process) my in-use HDD got a half-assed second operating system on it that led the hard drive to just refuse to load either OS at all. So im using a friends pc to post this comment since the computer cant be used. Tomorrow if i can get to my other friend's house im going to just do a clean install, it kinda works out since a recent problem with the Steam client forced me to uninstall all of mey installed games(around 150GB).
> 
> Does this mean the faulty hardware i have is the motherboard?


I just thought of an idea...

Turn off the PC, and remove the video card completely.

Then boot the PC and allow it to boot up. If it crashes, its not the GPU. If it doesn't it was the GPU.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Panther: thats what i said im going to do.

MasterChief: How will i be able to tell if it crashes? This motherbaord has no on-board graphics and the pc never APPEARS to turn off whenit crashes because its set to reboot instantly. That setting can only be changed through windows and windows CANT boot anymore until i do a clean install.


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## Panther063 (Jul 13, 2009)

Project_06 said:


> Panther: thats what i said im going to do.


At your friends house, presumably using his computer to hook your hard drive up to.

This will not help your issue on your computer!

If the Windows disc doesn't boot with only the spare drive installed in your computer, then the issue will not be fixed by installing Windows via his computer.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

No, i can boot using my own windows cd and format my main hard drive, it working fine its just that it now thinks that it doesnt have a operating system to boot on. I need to go to a friends house because i have satellite internet with limited data so if i just use up all my data installing windows 7 again ill be screwed for the rest of the month.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

After reviewing the return policies for Asus(the manufacturer of my graphics card) and Gigabyte(the manufacturer of my motherboard) it seems that i wont be able to return my graphics card whether its malfunctioning or not. Asus says that their return policy is invalid when "there is damage caused by an external electrical fault or any accident". Im not sure if an external electrical fault includes the PSU failing and damaging the hardware, but i dont think its a smart idea to send them the GPU if they wont even repair it. Here is the link to the page that i got this information from: 

ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- Warranty Policy HD7770-2GD5

Here is the return policy for the Gigabyte motherboard in case anyone wanted to view it as well, however it may be lacking vital information since you must register first.

RMA_main_page


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

I'd call them to ask what to do, but do not mention the failed PSU.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

Well , i may have finally found the cause of this misery! I realised that my friends pc that is left here at my house had a external GPU in it and its even a very close model(HD 7750). I tested this GPU in my pc and the first view tests were fine but after installing the driver software it began to crash, thinking the software may be causing the issue i used the clean uninstall utility and tested again. Even after that it still continued to shut down in the same exact way so that must mean that my motherboard is the cause, which is a relief because i should be able to send it to Gigabyte to repairs. If i need to do more testing then i could install my graphics card into my friends pc to do a final test but i dont believe its necessary.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

The drivers issue is the reason I asked you to install Windows on a new HDD.


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## Project_06 (May 21, 2012)

I thought the reason for that was to see if that hard drive was faulty after all, all software diagnostics for the HDD have failed. Anyways it cant be software because when i was trying to install windows on the other HDD it crashed mid-installation. After two attempts to clean install my main hard drive i finally succeeded and started testing the graphics cards.

I booted the computer 4 times, all of which were successful then decided to install the drivers just in case they were the problem. Thats it when it crashed twice in a row, so i did a clean removal of the drivers and then rebooted 3 times all of which crashed at least once then did start up after the automatic restart.

I can only think that the crashes starting after driver installation was coincidental since i did a clean removal and the crashes are still present. Keep in mind that the only software ive installed since the clean install are Microsoft Security Essentials and the Ethernet port driver for my motherboard. There may be SOME windows updates as well, but not ALL of them since its 900MB in data and i cant waste away my data limit. I will get these updates at midnight tonight of course.


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