# Need help with upgrading.



## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Ok well basically i want to upgrade my computer, and future proof if for at least another year.

I've had this system for just over 10 months, never had a serious problem with it all, i just need some updates/upgraded hardware, but need some help deciding, here's some core variables:

Price range: Possibly no more £500
Use: GAMING, very new games to come out, unreal 3 (especially), crysis, bioshock etc and for other media purposes.
Product types: Any really, as long as there reliable.

Things i need help getting, which ones, where, price etc

First off, I would like a dual core processor of some kind so I can greatly boost my performance in games. I need to know if it's better to get an AMD or Intel core 2 duo for this: Price no more than £125 approx

2 gigs of RAM, (2 x 1 gig better? or just one normal 2gig?) (dunno price range for this, no more than £110 i'd say i guess)

8 series nvidia Graphics card, cheap, excellent performance, dx10 i def want. (£100-£140 approx)

Vista obviously for DX10, cheapest version availible.

And finally, an aegia physX card for the physics, again a cheap price recomended.

Where am I?: The UK, england, north west.

Where to buy: Preferably Ebuyer, or any other good site in the UK that has each of these 5 things i require.

Any help on this would be great, hopefully from this i'm looking to get the best possible experience for UT3, crysis, etc. To be played in high(ish?) detail with solid non laggy performance.

Thanks in advance.

(PS any other recommendations u guys have im all ears )


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

I would look at a whole platform upgrade for this. A new motherboard is a must if you want to upgrade the processor.

Here is what I would be looking at.

Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R Socket 775 8 Channel Audio ATX Motherboard
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/131173

Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 2.33GHz 1333FSB Socket 775 4MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/130485

Crucial Ballistix 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 667MHz/PC2-5300 CL3 2.1 V unbuffered non-ECC
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/119278

EVGA 8800GTS SuperClocked 320MB DDR3 DVI PCI-E Graphics Card
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/125117

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium DVD
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/119986

No PPU. Why? Because the Physics are now done on the GPU in DX10 rather than the CPU and any PPU in the system will end up sitting in idle.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Ah thanks than gives me a good idea of what to get.

What u mean about the PPU? Are u telling me its a choice between...DX9 and and physX card, missing out on DX10 stuff, or DX10 and missing out on the level of detail physX provides, another thing that baffles me is this clip:

http://www.ageia.com/physx/ut3.html

Is that on DX9 with PhysX or DX10 and physX?...It's ohh so confusing, I really hope its like this without a physX card i do.

But if ur sure i'll be getting the same level of physics...then ok i'll leave the ppu.

Also I would actually prefer AMD lol, my current one is:

asus A8N32-SLI Socket 939.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

What I'm saying is that the DX10 GPUs have built in physics processing power. You don't need it. the PPU was originally designed to take the physics processing load off the CPU. But in DX10 it is done on the GPU, so it becomes pointless.

Since it looks like you have a good board, why not keep the platform and upgrade the RAM and if necessary CPU? What CPU do you have now?


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Meh i still would like DX10. and since it dont work on windows...uhh lol

Ohh...erm i have an AMD64 3500+ 2.2ghz I think (will verify when at home)

My ram is like, 2x512mbs corsair RAM, would it be possible to add in a 2x 1gb RAM without taking my original out? Because then i'd have three...if you know how many slots I have lol.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

TheMatt said:


> What I'm saying is that the DX10 GPUs have built in physics processing power. You don't need it. the PPU was originally designed to take the physics processing load off the CPU. But in DX10 it is done on the GPU, so it becomes pointless.
> 
> Since it looks like you have a good board, why not keep the platform and upgrade the RAM and if necessary CPU? What CPU do you have now?


I've just had this told to me by two people on the UT3 forums on here:

http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=576588&page=3 (post 25 and 26)

Read the two posts quoting me, they state NO dx10 card has a build physics...so whats the truth? I dont know who to trust...there sayign aegia and that have nothign to do with DX10 and ur sayign SX10 cards Do, but people are saying on here it's otherwise...

Now im really confused.


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

It's referred to as Quantum Effects Technology on the Nvidia 8xxx series card.

" Meeting the industry?s demand for physics effects, the FV-N88XMAD2-OD and FV-N88SMBD2-OD come with NVIDIA Quantum Effects? technology?a groundbreaking shader processor that delivers high-definition smoke, fire, or explosion effects and perfect fluid movements of game elements such as hair, fur, and water. This technology simulates and renders physics effects directly on the GPU, allowing the CPU to concentrate on the game engine and save precious processor energy. NVIDIA Quantum Effects? technology does away with the need to purchase an additional physics processing card.
"

http://www.planetx64.com/index.php?Itemid=12&id=439&option=com_content&task=view

ATI also has PP built in thier new cards.

" The CPU has historically handled physics processing. The HD 2900 series diverts physics processing to the GPU, using its stream processing and superscalar architecture. (ATI’s graphics drivers include physics processing support.) To use these features, the game itself has to have physics support, but most of today’s games do. "

http://www.computerpoweruser.com/ed...rticle=articles/archive/c0708/29c08/29c08.asp


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Ahh ok...

Now is it just foxcon stuff that that has these or all normal 8600/8800's have?

I still need to find a good 8 series under £130

(Btw i appreciate all ur help so far)


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

All Nvidea 8xxx cards should have it AKAIK.

If you have to stay under 130 then you're only choice is going to be an 8600GTS, but if you can swing the extra cash the 8800 that Matt Modica linked to will give you *WAY* better performance.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Ok you've convinced me lol, i shall be getting that. I was also thinking of getting this: http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...hvd19wcm9kdWN0X3Jldmlld3M=&product_uid=125202

Processor as well.

Any ideas of a top knotch ram other than that one for my motherboard? £85 max.

Oh and will they eb able to work along side my 1gb (2x512mbs) corsiar ddr 400 memory, so I have 3gigs in total?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Do you currently have a socket 939 board or an AM2 board?


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

TheMatt said:


> Do you currently have a socket 939 board or an AM2 board?


Socket 939, why?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Then you can't take that processor above. It is a socket AM2 and they are not pin compatible. You will need something like this:
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/112960

Also, for RAM you will need DDR RAM like this:
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/85958


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Oh right, so i will need those as they are compatible with my current mobo. Hmm ok.

So upgrading the mother board to am2 would not allow my current memory to work with it?

And since i'm going with AMD i've decided, i guess i need a good am2 motherboard, memory, and proccessor.

But do u reckon those 2 u suggested would do well with UT3?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Yes. The 8800GTS will make the biggest difference so if you can save enough money to go with it by keeping your current board then I would do so.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Ok thanks alot, yeah getting another mobo and diff ram would be a pain right now. just to check since u havent answered yet, my current RAM, will it work together with the upgrade 939 dual core and that 2gig corsair so i can have 3 gig over all?

Many thanks to you all, it's certainly cleared alot up


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Yes, that will work. Just one thing to note, check the BIOS when you put in the new RAM that dual channel is still enabled. If it isn't and the old RAM is conflicting with dual channel operation, then I would remove the old RAM and only use the new RAM. Dual channel is more important than having 3 GB instead of 2 GB.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Will do, thanks alot


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

You're welcome. :smile:


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

If you must use Ebuyer then you only have 2 options for upgrading to a Dual Core CPU.
The X2 3800+ or the X2 4200+. They both have 2 x 512MB L2 cache. The 3800 has a 10x multiplier and runs @ 2.0ghz. The 4200 has an 11x multiplier and runs @ 2.2ghz. They are the same CPU with the multiplier being the only difference. If you are into OCing you should be able get 2.4ghz or better out either processor. OCing the 4200 would put less stress on your system, because with the higher multiplier.

CPU...Multiplier...FSB....Clock Speed
4200+ 11 x 220 = 2420mhz
11 x 240 = 2640mhz

3800+ 10 x 220 = 2200mhz
10 x 240 = 2400mhz

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/112959/product_info/rb/0

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/112960

If you can find them in the UK at a reasonable price the Opteron 170 is a better OCing chip and has a 2 x 1mb L2 cache. It runs @ 2.0 ghz with a 10x multiplier.

Just food for thought.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Thanks for that, yeah i'll be OCing it.

Just a final thought. Do any of you know how much I could stabley OC my current processor, and where can a find my temperatures for my processor, is it by pressing f8 on boot up? or w.e.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Dam i wish i cud edit my messages....

One another thing, 64 bit vista or 32 bit? I here more bugs are in 64bit and not many games use it etc...


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

You can only edit a post for up to 30mins. After that you have to post a new message.

As for OCing your current CPU, it's not an exact science so I can't for sure. It depends on the CPU, motherboard, RAM, & PSU. The Newcastle core didn't OC well at all, while the Venice and Manchester cores faired much better. With either the Vinnny or Manchester 2.7 on stable on air is possible (but not guaranteed).

As for the temps, you would access thoise by hitting "Del" on post to enter the BIOS. Then look for PC Health or Hardware Monitoring or something like that. From Windows you can use software to monitor the temps and voltages. Speedfan, Sensorview, Everest, PC Wizard are a few. Asus also has one called Asus Probe.

The Max temp for your CPU also depends on the core, but basically it's 65-70c before shutdown. You don't really want to break 50c under max load. That been said, my FX60 hovers around 55c with both cores under max. With no OC.

Let me know what CPU version you have.

32 bit is the way to go for gaming. IMHO XP is still the OS for gaming also, but Vista should be getting better.:4-dontkno I had it installed and went back to XP due to gaming issues. Obviously if you want DX10 you have to go with Vista.

If you have any other questions, or need OCing instructions feel free to ask.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Good point. The 10x multiplier is always nice for overclocking, but you might not get an overall higher speed with the 3800+. Its up to you. If you do have the money, go for the Opteron.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

i found this opteron:

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=110297

Seems pretty good, 939 as well  2.6 L2 2x 1mb cache too .

Region specific processors are different? Lol ok...

I live in merseyside NW, england if that helps...

Ok im getting a tool to have a look at what my current temps are, am i supposed to have some kind of OC'ing software that comes with my processor? or would i need to download a program...?

And so far it looks like i've finallised what my upgrade shall be:

(The above processor)
The EVGA 8800GTS SuperClocked 320MB DDR3 DVI PCI-E (may wait for a 'lil price drop)
The Corsair 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR 400MHz/PC3200 XMS Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL2 Silver Heat Spreader Lifetime Warranty
And vista of some sort, i would prefer just home basic, if that's the cheapest, as i say i only want it for dx10, i dont want folding taskbars, or rotating 3d windows or w/e lol. So still unsure of which one to get there.

* EDIT *

Ok i tried speed fan, here are some readongs.

(all i have running is this and the speedfan thingy, along with my AV too)

temp1:41C
temp2:44C
temp3:-128C (lol ***?)
HD0:37C
CORE: 44C (variable lol) (it seems to jump to 50 sometimes and other temps.

Would room temperature help alot? or not?

Any1 make sense of any of those temps? (I got my specs up now if you take a look)


fan1: 6054RPM


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

That's actually a decent price for the 185, but the biggest advantage to going with an Opty is it's overclocking ability. Here in the states that would be paying around $100-$120 for a 165 1.8ghz or 170 2.0ghz and overclocking it to the speed of a $250 185 (2.6ghz) or higher. You could possibly squeeze some more juice out of the 185 but the overall value isn't there.

CPU's are not regional. You could buy a CPU from the states and use it the UK.

As for the actually overclock. It's best to overclock from the BIOS instead of using software to overclock.

It's really simple with Nforce boards. Simply drop you HTT multiplier to 4x, then start increasing the FSB for the CPU. (this also increases the FSB to the ram) 

Read this for a little insight.
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/newbie-oc-guide.html

BTW your temps look ok


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

I may givr OC'in a miss lol.

As for vista...

Can the XP-to home basic/premium upgrade version allow you to re-install if something goes wrong? Im still having trouble finding a decent package...


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

†TYRANICK†™ said:


> I may givr OC'in a miss lol.
> 
> As for vista...
> 
> Can the XP-to home basic/premium upgrade version allow you to re-install if something goes wrong? Im still having trouble finding a decent package...


I'm sorry for the late reply, I'm going through my thread subscriptions now to tie up loose ends.

AKAIK, with Vista you will not be able to do a clean install using the upgrade cd. I believe you would need to re-install XP then upgrade again, but I could be wrong. I've tried doing a clean install with the upgrade version it didn't work, but that was without actually doing the upgrade from XP. It may react differently once you've actually done the upgrade and have Vista installed.:4-dontkno


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

ok i'll try and see if i can find a normal version i dont want to ahve to go through it all only to find it doesnt work.

after all better safe than sorry.

Just to clerify, when and if i buy the dvd version of home or premium w/e will i need to un-install XP? Or just instal vista over xp? and if i have to get rid of XP, how? At least to my knowledge it shouldnt...i mean i've heard all that changes are the core files for vista, and that your games, music, programs, will stay the same (just apart from getting the upgrade drivers etc).

And is there list i can find anywhere of all the things/hardware/software which Are Not compatible with vista?

Thanks again


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

It's usually better to do a clean install by reformatting hard drive and installing the new OS.You usually get a more stable OS. That said, you can do an upgrade installation and may not have any issues. 

Compatibility tool for Vista.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Reformat?? Argh i dont wanna have to delete everything then re-install it...¬_¬ 1) Because i got loads of configs on my comp 2) i have loads of things i cant remeber where i got them from, and 3), it takes ages? lol Oh and 4) i have a alot of downloaded of downloaded stuff.

I think i'll go with trying to upgrade to be on the safe side lol.

So how does the upgrade version work differently to the DVD-rom install?

Ahh yes the advisor, i got that, didnt know about the hardware assement thingy though, i'll give that a try and see what come up.

The advisor says im perfectly able to upgrade, it reccomends the business version but i dont need all that crap it offers with the 3d windows and stuff haha xD, so i'll go with the upgrade premium or basic i think.

I'll talk to the guy who made my current comp for me about it, and see if he can get it all going for me.

Also, would it be better to fit the other components first before trying out Vista?

And btw matt, does vista really ask you all the time:

"Are you sure?" When moving, or deleting, or opening a file, or modifying it etc? Because i hope not, or if it is at least "turn-off-able"


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

The upgrdae version can only be used to upgrade. The retail or oem versions can be used to upgrade from Windows XP or to do a full clean installation. To upgrade simply start Windows XP then insert the Vista DVD into the DVD drive and follow the instructions. When asked just choose upgrade to keep current settings. BTW Aero comes with anything above home basic and is actually very cool.

I really liked Vista when I had it installed, but at the time I could not play BF2 without a registry edit to disable one of the CPU cores or something. So I reformatted and went back to XP. The way I did it was I installed Vista on a second hard drive, that way I didn't have to worry about losing anything if I didn't like Vista. I now have that second drive setup for gaming only with only XP, my games, and VOIP programs installed.

Yes Vista asks you to confirm just about everything you try to do, it's called User Account Control. UAC can be turned off, (disclaimer) it is not advised to do so as it compromises the built in security and the ie browser, but here are the instructions.
to turn it off 
msconfig
tools tab
scroll down to it's entry
here you can enable or disable
There is also a Tweak tool that will allow you to turn it off, on, or run in silent mode.
http://www.tweak-uac.com/what-is-tweak-uac/


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Ah ok that clears some things up.

Oh you installed on a seperate hardrive? i take it that meant you preserved all your XP files, and that they didnt conflict with each other etc.

Wow...disabling one of your cores? That's drastic lol.

Thanks for that, that pretty much clears everything up really, just waiting for the advisor to finish scanning.


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

Yes I had Vista on one drive and XP on another in a dual boot setup, with no issues. I know have XP on both drives in a dual boot setup. If I want to game I boot to my gaming hard drive, and if I'm doing anything else I boot to my main drive. My main hard drive isn't being consumed by large game files and my game drive isn't waited down with a bunch of back ground tasks, antivirus and such that I have to disable to improve gaming.


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## TYRANICK (Jan 24, 2007)

Well i just finished the scan, it seems i have no issues apart from needing my sound card drivers which is no problem, some hardrive space (mite use other when i get onto that issue) 

My speedtouch usb adsl modem is a "?" so there no data there.

Same with my nvidia nforce networking controller and my enhanced dsiplay driver help service

Programs is msn and msn explorer (there gone lol) 

So yeah thats about it.

dual boot...how does that work then? Basically i move all my game folders to my other hardrive (as well as anything else related) and the computer just loads up all stuff on the D? What about things like internet and all that, i take that would be implied.

Me im a very "multiplier" person, bad word lol...basically i rely on both the gaming and practical main use of my things, as for AV and Firewalls etc, i found them to make little to zero different turned on or off lol, and i got a big enough drive anyway.

Ok thanks again, i will take all this into consideration


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## mattlock (Dec 28, 2005)

When setup for dual boot (in my case anyway) you have to seperate hard drives each with it's own bootable OS. My everyday use HD is set as my 1st HD boot option in BIOS, so when I power on my system it boots to that drive by default and Windows dees the 2nd drive as D: drive. If I want to boot to the 2nd hard drive (My gaming drive) instead, when I power on the PC I hit F8 (for my motherboard) to open the boot option menu, and select the 2nd drive. Once I hit enter the system boots to the 2nd drive, and drive 1 is now seen as D: drive by Windows. 

It's kind of like having two different computer setups in the same tower.


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