# [SOLVED] PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected



## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

Hi,

I've got here troublesome situation with my soundcard.

I've got Gina3G soundcard by EchoAudio, and it works well on my old PC, nothing wrong with it. But I needed to upgrade my PC. So I bought new one, and picked motherboard, which does have PCI slot. Finally I managed to move soundcard from old computer to new one; a step where I did not expect any troubles at all.

Soundcard has inner PCI card and everything else is in external box connected with PCI card with a cable. When I plug-in PCI card into slot, computer starts -- I saw bios messages on the screen. BUT when I connect external box with that PCI card, the computer is dead. I has power, since power-on button on motherboard is lit. But when I press it, nothing happens, not even fan starts spinning. When I just disconnect cable from PCI card, PCI card is still plugged-in, it comes back to life.

I know this is kind a tough question with probably only one simple answer. But is there a way how to turn my Gina3G brick back to Gina3G soundcard?


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## T_Rex (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

Hi Alfonz welcome to TSF,

Reading your issues, I would ask what are the specs of each system? old and new? Also the operating system/s?


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## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

Hi, 
thank you for your effort in helping me.

I did some examining since last time, starting with plugging sound card *back* to old PC to prove it's functional: yes, it's fine.

A) Old pc:
6-8 years old PC, i cannot remember. Board is T8K NEO by MSI -- at least that's written on it. CPU is AMD athlon 3000+. 1GB RAM, but I can't tell now what brand it is. I checked the PSU and it's 300W.

If you need more information, just ask, I'll do my best to help you in helping me 

B) new PC.

CPU:
ALFA.cz - potae, notebooky, elektronika, fotoaparty, telefony, navigace, MP3, LCD, grafick karty, monitory, tiskrny, Wi-Fi, hardware, audio, video, kabely
PSU:
ALFA.cz - potae, notebooky, elektronika, fotoaparty, telefony, navigace, MP3, LCD, grafick karty, monitory, tiskrny, Wi-Fi, hardware, audio, video, kabely
ram:
ALFA.cz - potae, notebooky, elektronika, fotoaparty, telefony, navigace, MP3, LCD, grafick karty, monitory, tiskrny, Wi-Fi, hardware, audio, video, kabely
mainboard:
ALFA.cz - potae, notebooky, elektronika, fotoaparty, telefony, navigace, MP3, LCD, grafick karty, monitory, tiskrny, Wi-Fi, hardware, audio, video, kabely

--
I suspected PSU to be too weak for whole PC, and maybe it is, but my readings does not support this. But still it can be the cause, measurement was made using really low-tech low-cost counter and in very naive way. I'm programmer, not an HW guy, and found a consumer watt-meter. So  During startup (up to bios) whole machine takes no more than 60W, after logging in to OS and at full load it consumes 83W max. So if PCI can take up to 25W it should be OK for 360W PSU, BUT there is some distrubution between 3.3V and 5V etc. so there could (hypotheticaly) be not enought of power and there is also different I values (maximum number of Amphers) with this PSU then with another model, but this is far beyond my physics knowledge. And sorry, I'm not from english speaking country so I hope I described in understandable manner.

C) operating systems:
I'm able to get the mentioned soundcard (Gina3G) working either on windows or linux, no problem with that (at least it wasn't with old computer). But currently it's irrelevant, since even bios will not start, so speaking about OS is (maybe) too early.

once again, thank you, and if you need ANY kind of information or help from me, let me know.


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## T_Rex (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

So your new PC is working alright? The only trouble you have is when you install your PCI card and then the external box?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

Try installing the drivers for the sound card before using the card.


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## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*



ChronoGeek said:


> So your new PC is working alright? The only trouble you have is when you install your PCI card and then the external box?



yes. 
If I install PCI card (internal part of the soundcard), it's still ok, but when I connect the external part to the PCI card, PC will not power-up.


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## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*



ChronoGeek said:


> So your new PC is working alright? The only trouble you have is when you install your PCI card and then the external box?


edit: sorry i probably do not see proper icon to place answer to relevant thread.

thanks for answer, but that will not do the trick; as I said PC does not even POWER UP, even bios is not accessible. Suggested step could work, but that drivers would have to modify motherboard or PSI card in some way (some data in EEPROM or what's being used these days) bypassing some checks or something allowing pc to power up. And that's very unlikely.


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## T_Rex (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*



alfonz19 said:


> yes.
> If I install PCI card (internal part of the soundcard), it's still ok, but when I connect the external part to the PCI card, PC will not power-up.


 
I suggest you research your new motherboard and re-inspect your new build. Find out if your new system OS/Hardware is compatible. How does the external box connect? PCI connection only? or USB?


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## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

Hi alfonz19 and welcome to TSF :wave:

Does the external sound-box have it's own power-lead from the mains-socket, or is it powered from the PC-card? - Can you test the Gina3D in another PC, to test that all is still working well with the units?

Unless the 'Gina3D' is faulty, it seems very likely that the PSU isn't capable of carrying the extra load - The cheaper PSUs can only supply the full rated power for the 1st minute or 2 (when it's needed for the PC boot-up), then drop back to approx 2/3 ~ 3/4 of the power, this would be enough to overload the unit.

A good quality 'Branded' name (Seasonic, Thermaltake, Corsair) unit rated at about 420W minimum, should be enough to power everything, without putting too much strain on the PSU. Take a look here for info about PSUs - *Link*


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## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

thanks for your reply.

To the answers/questions:



> Does the external sound-box have it's own power-lead from the mains-socket, or is it powered from the PC-card?


fully powered from PCI.



> Can you test the Gina3D in another PC


yes, it works.



> that all is still working well with the units?


well with the units? Sorry, I did not understand that question. What's "with the units"?



> ad PSU related stuff


my PSU is this one:
Welcome to Seasonic USA
and as I noted above during startup it takes no more and never more than 60W of its claimed maximum 360W. Yet PCI card cannot, by design, consume more than 25W.
So what do you think about it? Could it mean PSU is overloaded? I do not know, maybe it's just too much on it (with i7 CPU), I do not know, but that soundcard works well with noname 300W PSU and athlon 3000+ which I believe consumes more than i7.


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## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

As I said in my post above, cheap-quality PSUs rarely manage to give a sustained supply anywhere near what they state. A 300W PSU will often only be able to give about 220W~240W, and that could well be a struggle for it. Add a couple of years for age and cheap components and it's nearer 200W or under.

Also, cheap-quality PSUs don't have much protection so when they finally die, they often send a massive surge through everything connected to them, including mobo, HDD/CD/DVD-drives etc. The PSUs we recommend have adequate protection so if/when they finally die, it's 'quietly and peacefully'.

(*Note: -* I've just been informed by my colleagues here that Seasonic or XFX only are now recommended at present (t'other brands have changed to cheaper quality components), the PSU list is in the process of being updated to reflect the new change)


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## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

I'm not sure if we understand each other. Soundcard *WORKS* with old, crappy 300W PSU and *DO NOT WORK* with brand new, seasonic 360W PSU. So if I'm understand it properly, I do possess the recomended PSU. Right on not? It I'm right then the question is: can the problem be in underpowered *seasonic* PSU? Could possibly old 300W PSU + Athlon 3000+ be more stable than brand new 360W seasonic PSU with i7?


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## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

Aaahh apologies, I misunderstood your post and thought you were still using the old 300W PSU.

The fact that the sound-card works in the old PC but not the new one would suggest either a faulty mobo or faulty new PSU (Yep, they can still get through the 'Quality-Control' at the manufacturers, albeit very rarely :sigh - I'm baffled by how to narrow it down to what specific part though









I've asked my more experienced colleagues here to take a look if they have any ideas, hopefully someone will post back soon :wink:


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## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

thanks!

I can add this info related to PSU and motherboard:

i) when calculation Watt consumption I ran stress -c 12, which creats twelve threads, where each excercises CPU core at its max. So there is one deadly thread for each core + 4 more; no significant heat was there (under 60 C), no instability, relatively small Watt consumption (83W). So it looks stable.

ii) no problems (excluding soundcard) detected with motherboard ... EXCEPT one. I did not examine it yet, but SOMETIMES, when power was lost (even when PC was down), during next boot-up bios resets itself. It may be caused by faulty battery (did not replace it yet) BUT it's kinda weird. Settings should be lost, not reset, but that's maybe just a inappropriate error message.

Maybe this info is of no use, but I rather post it anyway.


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## Done_Fishin (Oct 10, 2006)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

The i7 requires 100 watts in idle 

Intel Core i7-3770K Power Consumption | bit-tech.net

I am not sure how your old PC was distributing power around the boards but it could just be that your new power supply just doesn't supply enough power to power the external box. it could be because the power rails don't have the same power capabilities as your old one where the external part of your sound card is concerned .. compare the current rating ratings of both power supplies to see where the ratings are different .. we have been through this before as cpu's advanced and power supply manufacturers adapted their units to cope wwith more modern technology


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## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

well, thanks!

This post made me a little happy. The link you've referenced shows that i7 idle consumption is approx 100W; that's not corelate with my measurement, but as I said I did not use proper tool. I hope you're right.

I'm trying to find someone with more powerfull psu to lend and try it. I'll report the result.


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## Koudy_cz (Jul 28, 2013)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

Hello everyone,
I'm writing here, cause I'm the one, who build alfon19's PC. We choose this Gigabyte board because of the old PCI slot for his sound card. I read this topic, because I'm trying to figure it out, why PC doesn't starting with connected external unit. Unfortunatelly we are not living in same city, so I can't get to his PC at the moment. 
Only thing, which became on our minds is to try the old 300W [whatever brand it is] PSU and start the PC with it, BUT I'm quite afraid about life of these new components, isn't it too risky?
Finally we can try another PSU, from my PC, but it's the same Seasonic G360 [80gold specification BTW], so it maybe will have no effect on that.

Do you think guys that we can complaint Motherboard at the seller because of this reason?
THX


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## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

*Re: PC won't even *start* (not boot) when soundcard is connected*

problem was solved.
It was truly caused by weak PSU. It IS indeed surprising while WHOLE PC does not need much power, but during first ms of PC startup the consumption is probably excessive and PSU considered it harmful. So I've switched to better PSU and everything is just fine.
Thanks everyone for help.


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## Done_Fishin (Oct 10, 2006)

you are quite right about the start up current .. especially as psu's age and they cannot hold sufficient charge in the capacitors .. I have experienced the problem of having to disconnect one DVD drive at moment of power on and reconnect as soon as everything starts working .. on an even more bizarre note .. my current Computer may decide not to power on unless I remove a single usb 4GB thumb drive (flash drive) which one would think takes no power at all !!


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## alfonz19 (Jul 3, 2013)

single flash-drive? It must be bad omens of some sort  That sounds really ... well it sounds like it's more probable, that you're making it up, than it's real, but I trust you  The longer I work with computers the more incredible stuff I encounter. Actually when working on one project I wrote a check list for myself what to do, when crazy stuff happens, starting with encouraging: "computers are deterministic machines, everything must have a reason".

thanks again for helping me with this issue.


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## Done_Fishin (Oct 10, 2006)

I'm glad you've got it sorted .. 

other experiences I have had from "failing power supplies" are everything works apart from the floppy drive and on other occasions the DVD drive .. strange but true .. psu replaced and all working nicely .. psu's required replacement capacitors .. but saying any more would be thread hijacking so we'll leave it here 

have fun with your repairs :wave:


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