# [SOLVED] Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade



## Dealmaster13

After receiving some money from my parents as a Christmas present, I've decided to invest most of it into upgrading my current system, as it is *lacking a powerful graphics card and RAM*, with the Windows Experience Index rating my *Memory (RAM) at 4.1* (surprisingly this has changed from the original 3.1 it rated my memory at, before I clicked 'update my score'), my *Graphics at 4.9 and my Gaming graphics at 5.3* (My CPU and 2 identical hard drives are decent enough receiving 5.9 and 5.8 points respectively).

I bought the Packard Bell barebone PC from PC World last summer with the following specifications:

*Packard Bell IXTREME 2712*
*CPU:* Intel Core 2 Quad *Q6600* processor (regretably *not* the *SLACR* ver)
*RAM:* *3GB* (1X2GB *PC2 5300* and 1X1GB PC2 5300 - strangely only clocked at 266MHz according to CPU-Z) only 2 RAM slots available
Hard Drives: 2X Seagate 360GB (720GB total)
*Graphics Card: 8600GS* (unfortunate I hadn't seen the benchmarks for this particular card before hand; I have the very odd GS, NOT GT, GTS or 8400GS)
*Operating System: Vista Home Premium 32-bit*
Monitor: 6 year old Compaq 1280x1024 15"/17" (nb. I bought a barebone)
*Chassis Dimensions: 195x420x415(mm)*

*Motherboard:*
The exact model of my motherboard has been really difficult to find, however I believe, after opening the case, has the specs listed below.
Foxconn PT8907MB-2.0-8ERS2H








I think it only has a *single PCI-E x16 slot* (unsure of which version) which is occupied by the nVidia 8600GS, and a couple of unnecessary PCI x1 slots or something of that sort, one of which has a free TV tuner connected to it (it came with the Packard Bell barebone package already installed - no idea how it works unfortunately). It also supplies *2 RAM slots* both limited by the *PC2 5300* specification (*please correct me if I'm wrong*).

I am looking to upgrade my PC for *gaming*, light photoshopping, programming and general mulitasking (most of which are achievable thanks to the existing Q6600).
Thus, I want to *upgrade my graphics card and RAM*. Before I do this, I should really be thinking about *replacing my mobo* as well; as it severly limits the components I can buy.

*What I'm looking to buy:*
*Motherboard:* Gigabyte GA-*EP45-UD3/R/P* or ASUS *P5Q-E/PRO* (budget <£150)
*Graphics Card:* *ATI Radeon HD 4670* or *4850* or *4870* (budget <£200)
*RAM: 3GB/4GB of PC2 6400 or PC2 8500* (nb. I have *Vista 32-bit*) (budget <£50)

With a new high-end graphics card, I will probably need a *new PSU*, especially considering that my current FSP250-60HEN only supplies *250W*. Unfortunately I have absolutely no knowledge of which PSU to buy other than to look for one with particularly high stability, enough energy output and low price (budget <£50)

*What I need:*
*
Information on exactly what my motherboard provides in terms of PCI slots and RAM speed compatability
I need advice on which products I should buy, if not the ones I listed above
If buying new PC2 5300 RAM will improve loading speeds of general everyday programs
*
Please note that I am quite new to PC building, decide to use the upgraded build for light overclocking, hence the motherboard choice (however if there is a significant difference in price between the UD3/P5Q boards and another recomendation; I am willing to go with your suggestion), and will not be thinking about getting a Crossfire/SLI setup in the near future.

Thanks a lot, and looking forward to your replies.
Oliver

PS. Happy New Year!


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

*BRAVO* >>>>>.Oliver 


*very well written* ........... nice background research and very concise objectives!

You have your situtaion well at hand; the only real difference of opinion I have is the comment of your needing a good quality but cheap (50 pounds) power supply ......... when you want to use high quality parts its a must to be as demanding and rewarding of quality and cost for the power supply as any other single part of the PC with NO EXCEPTION ................ the power supply is the foundation of your high rise office building (computer) use a crappy foundation and it will all come crashing down no matter how nicely built !


on to the meat and potatoes:

Your Q6600 as you know has plenty of life in it especially with the right motherboard, ram and power ........... it can hit 3.4 ghz on air cooling 

what I personally would do if I were in your shoes is prioritise my purchases

A) power supply (corsair 750 watt or 650 watt >>>>> OCZ 700 watt)

B) video card = ATI 4850 (no less) or 9800 GTX+ <<<<< check prices

C) Corsair or OCZ DDR2-800/PC2-6400 ram in the 2 x 2 gig stick variety with CAS latency of 5-5-5-15 (not 5-5-5-18) and the ram should be rated at 2.1 volts !!

D) motherboard as you have described (dont overlook the sweet price of the GA-EP35-DS3L or GA-EP35-DS4 ) they will scream just like their P45 brethren!!

E) zalman 9700 CPU cooler (for overclocking)



I put these parts in the order I would buy them if you cant splash $$$$$$ for them all at once ........... you motherboard will run faster with that memory until you can throw a new motherboard at it .......... that memory is backward compatible and will run at 667 mhz for sure ............ if you are lucky it may run at 800mhz ????? 



enjoy and dont heistate to ask questions .............. check ebuyer.com too as well as maplin.com


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



linderman said:


> *BRAVO* >>>>>.Oliver
> 
> 
> *very well written* ........... nice background research and very concise objectives!
> 
> You have your situtaion well at hand; the only real difference of opinion I have is the comment of your needing a good quality but cheap (50 pounds) power supply ......... when you want to use high quality parts its a must to be as demanding and rewarding of quality and cost for the power supply as any other single part of the PC with NO EXCEPTION ................ the power supply is the foundation of your high rise office building (computer) use a crappy foundation and it will all come crashing down no matter how nicely built !
> 
> 
> on to the meat and potatoes:
> 
> Your Q6600 as you know has plenty of life in it especially with the right motherboard, ram and power ........... it can hit 3.4 ghz on air cooling
> 
> what I personally would do if I were in your shoes is prioritise my purchases
> 
> A) power supply (corsair 750 watt or 650 watt >>>>> OCZ 700 watt)
> 
> B) video card = ATI 4850 (no less) or 9800 GTX+ <<<<< check prices
> 
> C) Corsair or OCZ DDR2-800/PC2-6400 ram in the 2 x 2 gig stick variety with CAS latency of 5-5-5-15 (not 5-5-5-18) and the ram should be rated at 2.1 volts !!
> 
> D) motherboard as you have described (dont overlook the sweet price of the GA-EP35-DS3L or GA-EP35-DS4 ) they will scream just like their P45 brethren!!
> 
> E) zalman 9700 CPU cooler (for overclocking)
> 
> 
> 
> I put these parts in the order I would buy them if you cant splash $$$$$$ for them all at once ........... you motherboard will run faster with that memory until you can throw a new motherboard at it .......... that memory is backward compatible and will run at 667 mhz for sure ............ if you are lucky it may run at 800mhz ?????
> 
> 
> 
> enjoy and dont heistate to ask questions .............. check ebuyer.com too as well as maplin.com


Thank you very much, and it's such an honour to be praised like that only being 15 .
Right, after reading your recommendations, I've had a rethink on how I should prioritise my new hardware and their prices. To be honest, before I carry on, I'd like to point out that I may just have overshot my budget there with my original list; so I may need some further trimming down on my product specs.
I'd also like to clarify that I live in the UK, so will be looking at UK auction and PC hardware sites - the sites that I am familiar with are: Ebay UK (my mum has an account there), Arianet (really sweet offers and great range of products), Scan (for top quality).
Since posting here, I've also received a reply from a Packard Bell Support member who has *possibly* found the motherboard I currently have. Can someone please confirm this, because what is of real interest to me is the fact that is states the board really does support DDR2 800 RAM; if that's the case, I might decide to leave upgrading the board to another time and be able to splash a greater proportion of my budget on the more important hardware, namely being the graphics card - however the fact that the board _might_ not supply a PCI express *2.0* slot could be of a worry to me.

New questions:

Could my motherboard be limiting the capabilities of my CPU and RAM? (please note that my motherboard's overclocking capabilities/options, not saying that it would've had any, have been locked by Packard Bell)
The reason I ask this is because CPU-Z states that my Q6600 *non-G0* stepping CPU runs at 1.6GHz (which is really quite alarming), 266MHz FSB x 6 multiplier AND that my PC2 5300 is stuck at only a frequency of 266MHz, where as my friend's Dell build with PC2 5300 RAM runs at a much higher 333MHz.
I've had a look at the Corsair PSUs on www.aria.co.uk and unfortunately, they seem to be surprisingly expensive. It's quite late and I've got to go to London early tommorow morning, so I'm afraid I can't do much searching for quality PSUs until I get back.
Sorry, but I didn't quite get your arrows thinking that you were pointing out that Corsair's were better than OCZ's .
How much of a difference is there in terms of performance between 667, 800 and 1066Mhz RAM modules? I.e. if my current motherboard supplies 800, should I just buy 2x2GB sticks of them, and see a great improvement (note my m/b only has 2 RAM slots)? My boot time and game load times are adequate for my needs, but I was just thinking, that with RAM being so cheap compared to most other PC components, I think I might as well upgrade that first.
When looking at graphics cars, I really am looking for 'bang for the buck' gfx cards, as they call it in the US ; which is why I've chosen the 4000 series to take a look at rather than any nVidia cards. I'm not a really, really hardcore gamer, however I often do get frustrated when my fps drops below 20 in just 1280x1024... the 8600GS even averages only 15 fps in NFSPS and NFSU - it's ridiculous. Unfortunately I didn't add in the Samsung 22" monitor into the equation, however I can leave that to a later date. So, is the 9000 series really much better than ATI's 4000 series when looking at *cost* as well?
A while back, I found a really swish website listing extensive details on a wide range of graphics cards in table format allowing you to compare their Tflops etc. - unfortunately I've never been able to find the site since - I thought it was on Tom's Hardware, but couldn't find it. I'd greatly appreciate it if someone gave me a link.
Are you confident that a DS3L will do just fine? The thing is that I want to make sure when fitting out these new parts, I choose really quite future-proof hardware so that I don't have to face another upgrade. It's significantly cheaper, which is obviously a plus side (£69 opposed to £129). Did it receive as much praise as the new Ultra Durable 3 models did (again, sorry but I don't have the time to check)?

New hardware choices:

650-750W PSU (really need recommendations here, as I don't know much about PSUs)
4670(£63)/4850(£115)/4870(£180)/9800GT(£95)/9800GTX(£115)
2x2GB PC2 6400 (need recommendations on model), or 2x2GB PC2 8500 (very slight price difference)
UD3R/UD3P or DS3L
Cheap air cooler(s)



*[*]Is there any specific PSU (model required) I should look at that really is sub-£50
[*]Which graphics card shall I go for? (overclocking and dual-card setup not in mind)
[*]Which model of RAM do you recommend? I have Vista 32-bit, so is 2x2GB worth it?
[*]Which Motherboard should I buy, considering my want to make it future-proof?
[*]Is the Zalman 9700 as cheap as it gets? I remember reading a top £15 air cooler in my PC magazine - I'll relook it up sometime soon.*

Again, thank you very much for your time, and I hope you've had a great holiday thus far 
Oliver


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Hello:

unfortunatley I response wont nearly match the look of yours; not even closely. Hope you will find it of value anyway!


A) Corsair / OCZ / Crucial are all equal in my book Gskil, Patriot are darn close

B) your current video card is killing your performance ......... however your current power supply will not power a good card ............. thats a guarantee !

C) the ATI 4850 is the best bang for the buck and faster than the 9800GTX ....... sometimes on rare occurences you can find a super deal on the 9800 GTX which makes it worthy of a second look !

D) power supplies = Corsair 750 TX or 650TX / OCZ 700 watt / Coolermaster real power pro 650watt or 750 watt / Thermaltake Toughpower 650 watt or 700 or 750 watt

E) I think you slower FSB speed of your Q6600 is not because of the stepping ...... but rather the slow ram you have

F) I would not mess with 1066mhz ram ........ its only true purpose is for extreme overclocking ........ 800mhz ram will satisify 90% of Q6600 owners. In fact plenty of motherboards wont run with 1066mhz ram ...... not worth the risk in any way, shape, or form !!

G) yes the EP35 chipsets boards are equally as good and high performance as the newer P45 ............ in fact I like some of the P35 versions better!


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



linderman said:


> Hello:
> 
> unfortunatley I response wont nearly match the look of yours; not even closely. Hope you will find it of value anyway!
> 
> 
> A) Corsair / OCZ / Crucial are all equal in my book Gskil, Patriot are darn close
> 
> B) your current video card is killing your performance ......... however your current power supply will not power a good card ............. thats a guarantee !
> 
> C) the ATI 4850 is the best bang for the buck and faster than the 9800GTX ....... sometimes on rare occurences you can find a super deal on the 9800 GTX which makes it worthy of a second look !
> 
> D) power supplies = Corsair 750 TX or 650TX / OCZ 700 watt / Coolermaster real power pro 650watt or 750 watt / Thermaltake Toughpower 650 watt or 700 or 750 watt
> 
> E) I think you slower FSB speed of your Q6600 is not because of the stepping ...... but rather the slow ram you have
> 
> F) I would not mess with 1066mhz ram ........ its only true purpose is for extreme overclocking ........ 800mhz ram will satisify 90% of Q6600 owners. In fact plenty of motherboards wont run with 1066mhz ram ...... not worth the risk in any way, shape, or form !!
> 
> G) yes the EP35 chipsets boards are equally as good and high performance as the newer P45 ............ in fact I like some of the P35 versions better!


Thank you very, very much for your thorough response. I will definitely look into those recommendations you've listed, and create a final list and prices.
Before I leave, could you please answer two things:
*IF* price in not a worry in terms of buying RAM, is it more beneficial in any way, other than overclocking, to buy PC2 8500 over PC2 6400 - is there a slight speed benefit?
DDR2 6400 RAM 5-4-4-15
DDR2 6400 RAM 4-4-4-15
I cant find much cheaper RAM than those^^^
If the 9800GTX was 20% more expensive than the HD4850, (which it is), which card would you get?


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## linderman

the only way DDR2-8500 ram is faster or better is during exteme overclocking ...... DDR2-800 ram will peform flawlessly all the way to 450mhz FSB / 900mhz on the ram speed 

after that point ............. DDR2-1066 is needed

the 4850 is a better choice ......... once in a great while I will hit a special or a refurbished 9800 GTX+ which is $25.00 to $30.00 cheaper ............ thats the only way I would prefer the 9800GTX

otherwise stick with the ATI 4850

both of your ram choices are excellent


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



linderman said:


> both of your ram choices are excellent


I have decided to ditch my plan to buy a new motherboard and it was forcing the rest of the components I were to buy to a lower quality due to my tight budget as well as the fact that I would then be forced to buy a new version of Windows (I really don't want Linux, being a gamer) - costing a further £50 as my operating system is 'tied' to my PB mobo.
According to rily of the PB forums, since my motherboard is capable of running both fast DDR2 800 RAM and my preffered 4000 series graphics card I should be fine.
Sticking with the PB mobo means I wont be overclocking at all, for a good while and that I wont need any 1066MHz RAM or extreme cooling (I've already got some really nice Cooler Master CPU cooler, already installed when I bought the barebone).

This helpfully leaves me with the following products to buy (in order of priority):
A fast and reliable 2x2GB DDR2 800 memory kit
A quiet, cheap and reliable 650-750 PSU
A very fast 1GB ATi Radeon HD4000 series graphics card or _extremely_ cheap 9800GTX+/GTX260
A very cheap, high contrast 1680x1050 20"-22" well branded monitor
If my budget allows, a very cheap yet effective cooling system and some gaming peripherals

I have to be able to buy all of the above in hopefully under £300 (very tall order); I may just be able to get my mum to push the budget to £400, however I'd rather not.

Now, to look through a multitude of reviews for exact components:

RAM:
Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-6400 CL4, DDR2, 800MHz, 240-Pin Unbuffered DIMM, 4-4-4-12 256Meg x 64 - £51.99 inc P&P

PSU:
OCZ ELITE XSTREAM 800W POWER SUPPLY - £69.90 inc VAT

Graphics Card:
ASUS 1GB RADEON HD 4850 PCI-E 2.0 RET - £146 inc P&P

Monitor:
If parents agree:
22" Arianet Widescreen LCD Monitor With DVI - Piano Black - £91.94 inc VAT

OR

RAM:
CRUCIAL BALLISTIX 2 x 1 GB 240-pin Non-ECC DIMM DDR2 DDR2 PC2-6400 - £25.75 + P&P

PSU:
OCZ SXS 500W ATX Power Supply SLI Crossfire Low Noise - £44.80 inc P&P

Graphics Card:
ATi Radeon HD 4850 512MB PCI-E2.0 - £114.94 inc VAT

Monitor:
Samsung 20” Widescreen TFT - Gloss Black - £112.64 inc VAT

What do you think? By the way, thank you so very much for your time so far.


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

2 x 1 gig memory is cutting the cheese too thin for gaming

the OCZ 500 is also not up to the task of running your anticipated upgrade

the 4850 is a VERY good choice


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



linderman said:


> 2 x 1 gig memory is cutting the cheese too thin for gaming
> 
> the OCZ 500 is also not up to the task of running your anticipated upgrade
> 
> the 4850 is a VERY good choice


I'm not 100% sure, but I think that my motherboard can't increase my CPU clock and DDR2 RAM frequency, just by getting DDR2 800 RAM; is this true? I really hope not.

Below are my specs taken from CPU-Z:









I take it that 2x2GB is a must? 

Is there a particular *increase in performance from using 2x2GB instead of 4x1GB*? 

*If I buy 2x2GB RAM, with my 4850 using 1GB, will I have the full 3GB left depite having 32-bit Vista*?

Will I get a significant *performance increase* by switching from 2+1 *single channel* to 2+2 *dual channel?*

If I buy PC2 6400 RAM, *what speed do you think it will run at*? 
Are my motherboard's RAM slots *fixed at a speed of 266MHz*; or is the link above with specs on my motherboard true in saying that it *can take DDR2 800 modules*, if so, why don't my DDR2 5300 modules run at their optimum 333MHz speed? 

*Is 333MHz and 400MHz even possible?

What speed will DDR2 800 RAM run at; if 266MHz, shall I get quality 533 RAM instead?*

Is my motherboard *capable of supporting a 1GB 4850?* Why I ask this is because if you read this topic *which has a guy asking why his motherboard does not support a 4850 card, despite the required PSU*.

What are the chances that my *operating system is fixed to the motherboard?* I'll ask rily about this as well.

If a new motherboard *and* has to be bought, then I may as well buy a new PC, which is not going to happen :sigh:.

Are you sure the 500W PSU is not enough; I guess its lifetime may be shortenned by the unexpected loads - so is the £25 more Elite *really* worth getting?

Thanks again for your input, I really do appreciate it, and hope you can answer my bombardment of questions. I hope I can get this build just perfect for my budget


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

DDR2-800 ram is backwards compatible ....... which means it can also run at 266/333/400 speeds

the reason to get this ram is because it will be brought forward with your future upgrading / new system overhaul ............... lesser ram like DDR2-5300 or DDR2-667 would not be desirable to bring forward as they would not be up to spec with future plans

4 x 1 gig set-ups do not achieve the same level of performance as 2 x 2 gig .......and their is not enough of a savings to make 2 x 1 gig attractive ..........

with a 32bit OS ................ you can "use" 3.5gigs ............ although I have never see more than 2.5 gigs to 2.7 gigs max actual used .............. and to achieve this; required insane method to load the system with applications and tasks ......... something nobody except HAL the computer would do in real life use!!

during intense gaming though it is very common to see 2.0 gigs of ram used ...... especially with VISTA ........ hell; vista use 1/2 gig of ram doing NOTHING ....... its always running "things" in the background which the user is not aware of. which is the reason alot of Vista gamers have gone back to XP .............. other have take the time to learn to control Vista maintenance and have it performed when they are not gaming.

yes ........ your OS is tied to the machine >>>>>> without a doubt

upgrade in chunks !! as you have $$$$$ it aint gonna happen overnite

but each step is one step closer!

DONT MESS WITH BORDERLINE POWER SUPPLIES !!!!! get the "elite" model now and bring it forward ! you buy a borderline one now and you will need another when the motherboard upgrade happens ! arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I am researching the 4850 / your motherboard question you posted .......... although I see no reason why your system wont run that card !

its a real performance wack that you cant get dual channel operation on the ram sticks (hopefully a matched pair kit will fix that !!)

the stock FSB setting for your board and CPU is 266 X 9 ...........although if your board was capable of overclocking you could set your FSB at like 300 x 9 and maybe more


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## Dealmaster13

Thank you very much, I'll definitely take your 'upgrade in chunks' method into consideration and buy future proof components.



> the stock FSB setting for your board and CPU is 266 X 9 ...........although if your board was capable of overclocking you could set your FSB at like 300 x 9 and maybe more


So is my Q6600 definitely stuck on 266x6 until I buy a new motherboard or is it because (as you've said earlier) my RAM is holding it back?

How much slower will my 1GB 4850 be considering (I think) my mobo only has PCI-E X16 1.1?

Is a modular PSU significantly less reliable than a non-modular one?
I'm thinking of getting the OCZ 780W ModXStream Modular PSU - £62 or OCZ 600W GameXStream SLI Ready PSU - £57 if they ever come into stock again or OCZ Technology 700W Active PFC GameXStream SLI Ready - £78

I found out that the EXS was second hand... no wonder it was so cheap :sigh:


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## linderman

the OCZ 700 or 780 would be the one to choose


I am pretty sure its your ram holding your cpu back ............

I know your ram supports DDR2-667 memory ........... so it has room for speed improvement 


you need to load the system to see which multiplier is will raise to .......... the cpu changes multipliers when its resting the multiplier lowers >>>>>>>. google for "Intel Steed-Step"

BTW: according to that motherboard link you supplied in post # 9 ............... your board does support DDR2-800 memory at full speed !

also ............. no video cards are actually "doing" anything yet with the PCI express 2.0 capability ............. even fellas with a motherboard capable of 2.0 they are still running in 1.0 standard whether they know it or want to admit it ! you board is capable of running one card just as fast as anyone elses

cant increase the speed of your motherboard until you have a board capable of overclocking ....... but thats OK ....... save that for last


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## Dealmaster13

> You need to load the system to see which multiplier is will raise to .......... the cpu changes multipliers when its resting the multiplier lowers >>>>>>>. google for "Intel Steed-Step"


Thank you very, very much - in fact you've pretty much made my day - while playing Fallout 3, the CPU multiplier jumps to 9; great!
Unfortunately though; my RAM speed is stuck on 266MHz (I think), maybe it also jumps whilst playing a game, but I haven't caught it in the act yet (game auto pauses when switching windows).
I have decided to put RAM at the bottom of the list as I'm still not confident that my RAM will run flat out (at 400MHz).
Also, many people have told me that 2x2GB is not a very good setup as the extra RAM may even slow down your system somehow, or it's 'not worth the upgrade'; i.e. they prefer 1+1 or 2+1 (strange - single channel).
I'll do some more research on that soon; but for now, I'll have to revise for my French GCSE >.<
Thanks again for your replies!

I also forgot to point out that the site states:


> System Memory
> 
> * Two 240-pin DDR2 SDRAM DIMM slots.
> * Dual Channel DDR2 400/533/667/800
> * Supports up to *3GB RAM*


Is that a problem? Can I physically install and run 4GB RAM, i.e. will it just be like Vista and display it as 3GB, yet maintain dual channel and full speed specs?


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

hmmmmmmmmmmm ............... no .............. it will not support 2 x 2 gig sticks 

ewwwwwwwww................. I hate such decisions .......... I guess I would buy a matched pair of DDR2-800 high performance spec ram and only run one stick ..........
save the other stick for once you get your new motherboard


the only other choice is to buy 2 x one gig matched pair .............. but later when you upgrade motherboard ....... you would then be forced to sell of those 2 x 1 gig pair or run 4 x 1 gig configuration ..................... either way there is no win -win situtation

that HP motherboard is a real boat ancor !


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

How about the decision to buy one 2GB now, and a matched speed and latency 1GB now (3GB total), and a 2GB possibly later? Or would my PC barely use all 3GB and therefore I should go for 2x1GB?


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

the problem with buying any single stick of memory is being assured later you can purchase another EXACT same module to make a matched pair .......... most manufacturers dont give any details when they switch brands or specs of the little memory chips which reside on each memory stick ........... the chances of this type mis-match later is VERY high.

I would at the least buy the dual channel kit and just run the one stick for now ...... seems to me to be the best option for a predictament which has no perfect solution


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## Dealmaster13

Right. I was just thinking of planning to save some money now by buying 3GB rather than 5GB.
After buying the 2x2GB - is it worth it to purchase a further 1GB for a total of 3GB? I hear that Dual Channel increases performance by an insignificant amount (i.e. an increase of 50% in memory size > an increase of 100% in memory bandwidth). Is this true?
Also, many forums state that the OCZ PSUs have problems with their weak rails; so I think I might get a hefty 750W TX instead, which would probably cost £10 more. Can you add to that? Are the XStreams really unreliable? I wouldn't like to spend the extra money only to find out that the OCZ would've been just fine.

Or is the 650 TX enough for my needs? £80 750W or £60 650W?


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

the TX650 is just fine ! and yes ........... I am not a big fan of the OCZ supplies ...... they are mid grade ............ not junk but not high quality either ......... I think for the money the TX is a far better choice!


2 gigs of ram will be fine for now ............... when you finish your upgrade ............ pop in the other two


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Is it likely that the 2x2GB kit I might buy, will match another 1GB stick (quoted with the same specs and all that) if I buy them both at the same time, but from different sellers?


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

its worth a shot ............ I think it will work for your board


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

My mum very much prefers to buy stuff from PC World so she can do crappy installments and all that, and doesn't really care about the price that way (can go up to £500 if needed). I might be wanting to buy my RAM there, and definitely my monitor; however, unfortunately, they're behind in terms of PSUs and ATi graphics cards (only selling GameXStreams and a £30 more expensive than usual ATi HD4850).
After all of this (really sorry to have had to drag you through all this, and I _really_ do appreciate all the help you've given me thus far, and have learnt so much more about computer hardware over the past week and a half), I think I've pretty much settled on my exact product models (i.e. still decisions, however I don't think I need to consider any other products):

PSU:
Internet - Corsair 650 TX - £60
PC World - OCZ 700W GXS - £80

GFX card:
Internet - ASUS HD4850 512MB/1GB - £115/£150
PC World - Saphire HD4850 512MB - £150

RAM:
Internet - 2x2GB Crucial Ballsitix PC2 6400 4-4-4-15 - can't find stock
PC World - 2x1GB OCZ Reaper PC2 6400 - £35
(probably not going to buy any RAM until I get a decent motherboard)

Monitor:
PC World - LG W2242S-SF 22" TFT monitor - £120
or
PC World - Samsung T200 20" Rose Black (20,000:1)- £150

Is this all compatible with my motherboard? - I'm surprised many people find incompatibilities with new builds
Also, what's your stance on the choice of monitor ?
Is the contrast ratio (and stylish looks ) worth the money and smaller screen size? I'm not too bothered about the smaller size as long as it outputs 1680x1050 fine (without a squished look!).
The reason why I want to ditch my RAM upgrade, is because I'm only concerned about gaming - as that's the sole purpose for my upgrade. As long as it runs programs efficiently (which it does), I think I'll be fine for a few more months. Or do you think it's vital? The problem is, is that thanks to my (to be fair) supremely crap RAM compatibility, I have to somehow buy 2+1GB of RAM which will push my budget _unnecessarily_ further. I also have to cope with the dread of buying new quality PC2 6400 RAM only to find that it runs at 266MHz like my existing ones do.
Do you reckon the 1GB GFX is worth it? I saw in the Custom PC mag last week some really nice benchmarks on 27 different GFX cards, and apparently, in some games the 1GB was the only way to bring the min frame rate above 25fps in 1680x1050 (it's going to be a waste if I actually don't use the newly bought monitor to play in high res/AA/AF).

Thanks again,
Oliver


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



Dealmaster13 said:


> My mum very much prefers to buy stuff from PC World so she can do crappy installments and all that, and doesn't really care about the price that way (can go up to £500 if needed). I might be wanting to buy my RAM there, and definitely my monitor; however, unfortunately, they're behind in terms of PSUs and ATi graphics cards (only selling GameXStreams and a £30 more expensive than usual ATi HD4850).
> After all of this (really sorry to have had to drag you through all this, and I _really_ do appreciate all the help you've given me thus far, and have learnt so much more about computer hardware over the past week and a half), I think I've pretty much settled on my exact product models (i.e. still decisions, however I don't think I need to consider any other products):
> 
> PSU:
> Internet - Corsair 650 TX - £60
> PC World - OCZ 700W GXS - £80
> 
> GFX card:
> Internet - ASUS HD4850 512MB/1GB - £115/£150
> PC World - Saphire HD4850 512MB - £150
> 
> RAM:
> Internet - 2x2GB Crucial Ballsitix PC2 6400 4-4-4-15 - can't find stock
> PC World - 2x1GB OCZ Reaper PC2 6400 - £35
> (probably not going to buy any RAM until I get a decent motherboard)
> 
> Monitor:
> PC World - LG W2242S-SF 22" TFT monitor - £120
> or
> PC World - Samsung T200 20" Rose Black (20,000:1)- £150
> 
> Is this all compatible with my motherboard? - I'm surprised many people find incompatibilities with new builds
> Also, what's your stance on the choice of monitor ?
> Is the contrast ratio (and stylish looks ) worth the money and smaller screen size? I'm not too bothered about the smaller size as long as it outputs 1680x1050 fine (without a squished look!).
> The reason why I want to ditch my RAM upgrade, is because I'm only concerned about gaming - as that's the sole purpose for my upgrade. As long as it runs programs efficiently (which it does), I think I'll be fine for a few more months. Or do you think it's vital? The problem is, is that thanks to my (to be fair) supremely crap RAM compatibility, I have to somehow buy 2+1GB of RAM which will push my budget _unnecessarily_ further. I also have to cope with the dread of buying new quality PC2 6400 RAM only to find that it runs at 266MHz like my existing ones do.
> Do you reckon the 1GB GFX is worth it? I saw in the Custom PC mag last week some really nice benchmarks on 27 different GFX cards, and apparently, in some games the 1GB was the only way to bring the min frame rate above 25fps in 1680x1050 (it's going to be a waste if I actually don't use the newly bought monitor to play in high res/AA/AF).
> 
> Thanks again,
> Oliver


I know this is a difficult question to answer, but considering the LG uses VGA and the Samsung uses DVI, is it worth it to go with the Samsung, or is the much cheaper LG just fine?


----------



## Gavo28

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Hello guys, i realise this an old thread but am hoping i can get some help here.

I have the same motherboard pt890-8237a, and am looking to upgrade to 4gb ram.
The reason im posting here is because my Packard Bell Info centre says this:

"System Memory

* 2 X 240-pin DDR2 SDRAM DIMM slots
* Serial Presence Detect (SPD)
* DDR2 400 / DDR2 533
* Support for up to 4 GB system memory

If you have more than 2 GB of memory installed the System Properties dialogue box and the System Information tool may report less memory than is actually installed. You can find more details on the Microsoft Support Website"


Given that they are the same model motherboard i cant understand the conflict. Ive contacted retailers and none seem to have a 2gb dimm which they think is compatible. 

This is the ram i had been considering buying as Packard Bell are selling the same manufacturers ones on their site:

CRUCIAL 4GB DDR2 533 PC2 4200 533MHZ

Heres what PB offer:

http://store.packardbell.com/packar...-ddr2-533-pc2-4200-dimm/pa001270000:z1278.htm

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Gavin.


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

this is how you do it !

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=iXtreme 2712


then .................

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146526



if you want to roll the dice with 2 x 2 gig matched pair

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148111


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Please tell us if it goes well and you really can install 4 gigs on the board


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I have a "gut" feeling it will run with 2 x 2 gig matched pair


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

if you "really" want to jaz things up ............. then new motherboard for about $70.00

and fast ram for another $50.00

new copy of windows ............

and it will run like that Q6600 should run ! overclcoked at 3.0 ghz very easyily and using fast ram instead of choking ram


----------



## Gavo28

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Sounds good but unfortunately i only have an imedia j2412 which has an e4500 Duo cpu, not the Q6600  Im guessing the only thing our machines have in common is the motherboard, my pc isnt the best...

I certainly will keep you posted as to how i get on. So far ive had no luck getting a reply from Packard Bell support so i may just get the new ram and give it a go, its only €50 after all, can always sell it if it doesnt work.


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



linderman said:


> this is how you do it !
> 
> http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=iXtreme 2712
> 
> 
> then .................
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146526
> 
> 
> 
> if you want to roll the dice with 2 x 2 gig matched pair
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148111


The problem is that Crucial seem to have gotten the wrong motherboard specs as I'm certain the pt890-8237a only has two slots.
Then PB state that only


> * DDR2 400 / DDR2 533


 can be used to make things even more confusing.
It's difficult to say what is and what is not compatible with these motherboards.


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

ok ..........now I gotcha


http://support.packardbell.com/uk/item/index.php?i=spec_cuba&ppn=PB80100201


says support for 3 gig ram ......... but you have only two slots ............. 

well given your cpu couldnt use more than 2 gigs of ram anyway before its 100% busy ..... I would say stick with 2 x one gig sticks of DDR2-533 ram

I would not mess with trying 4 gigs


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Wouldn't 3 gigs still outweigh the performance of 2x1GB in dual channel?

Just out of interest, Gavin, what sticks do you currently have and at what speed do they run?
I have 667MHz sticks but CPU-Z says that they are only running at 266(x2) MHz which is annoying.


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I would have to say 2 x 1 gig ram configuration would be equal in speed with 2gig + 1gig stick (3 gigs total) provided you dont get a ram incompatability 

I wouldnt set out to deliberately config a 2 +1 config; but if you have them already, then I would not remove them to buy and install a matched pair of one gig sticks


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



Dealmaster13 said:


> Wouldn't 3 gigs still outweigh the performance of 2x1GB in dual channel?
> 
> Just out of interest, Gavin, what sticks do you currently have and at what speed do they run?
> I have 667MHz sticks but CPU-Z says that they are only running at 266(x2) MHz which is annoying.




sounds like the fastest your board will support is 533 mhz ram ? your 667 ram is getting down graded to 266 x 2 = 533


the tricky part is though ................ if your ram is not in dual channel operation you "dont get" .................... the doubling effect 

so in reality................ its very possible to have ram that really is running at 266mhz :embarased


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Oh dear XD


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

This website confirms your suspicions that the board does not, in fact, support dual channel or 667 MHz RAM :sigh:


Nevertheless, I will be happy to go through with an upgrade, with my exams set aside and prices down low 


This should be my final build, and I hope you can tell me if any changes need to be made :heartlove :

A new power supply:
Corsair 650 TX - £72 / US$120

A new graphics card:
XFX 1GB HD4870 XXX - £115 / US$190

A new monitor:
Viewsonic VX2260WM Full HD - £182 / US$302


A possible worry is that the overclocked XXX graphics card will run hot with that stock cooler, so these are alternatives:
Gigabyte 1GB HD4870 - £115 / US$191
Sapphire 1GB HD4870 - £121 / US$201

Another possible problem is the ability to fit the power supply in my current case; I will get dimensions shortly if needed.


*If* my single channel 266 MHz RAM will hold back the frame rate of new titles significantly, then I will be happy to downgrade to the following:
US$83 Corsair 450 VX (adequate according to the Corsair PSU recommendation search)
US$125 Sapphire 512MB HD4850
US$150-200 Standard 20-22" Monitor
_Possible 30-40% saving_


Questions:
1. Will my RAM keep frame rates low even with a top end graphics card? (i.e. <25 fps)
Are there particular types of games that require fast RAM, and others that don't?
2. Which graphics card out of the 3 HD4870s shall I buy if I don't go for the low budget route?
3. Will the new PSU fit? :X
If I remember correctly, my current PSU has micro-ATX written on it.


Thanks again!


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Questions:
1. Will my RAM keep frame rates low even with a top end graphics card? (i.e. <25 fps)
Are there particular types of games that require fast RAM, and others that don't?
2. Which graphics card out of the 3 HD4870s shall I buy if I don't go for the low budget route?
3. Will the new PSU fit? :X
If I remember correctly, my current PSU has micro-ATX written on it.


Answers:

A) yes, the slow ram is going to negatively impact you for sure

B) all the 4870's are very good choices; look them over for cooling evaluations (newegg reviews should point you in the right direct )

C) the micro-atx tells me your existing case is a mini one.........thats not good; in fact plan on replacing your case! the 4870 needs alot of air and alot of power 


summary: in your situation I would opt for the 4850 and a new case
the use of the 4870 really like more than a 650 watt power supply in the long run ......more like a 750, although the corsair 750 is not alot more money
you will need a new case regardless......look at the coolermaster centurions


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

It looks big :/

The dimensions are:
195x420x415(mm)


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I would like to let you know that I have settled with the Samsung P2250, Corsair TX850 (just managed to squeeze into the case, being about a cm longer than the 250W PSU) and HIS 1GB 4870 IceQ4+ Turbo as the latter were on offer during my stay in Singapore. All were installed fine early in the morning and the results are staggering.

Of course, I do need to fix up my RAM, and have been eying on the Gigabyte EP45-UD3 series with serious thought, along with Corsair Ballistix RAM and a Samsung F1 hardrive. I am looking into upgrading to Windows 7 and should be trying the RC soon enough.

From your point of view, is it worth it to spend £20-30 more on a Gigabyte EX58-UD3 board along with a new i7 so that I will then ultimately have 2 PCs, or shall I settle with the LGA775 board and possibly buy a new CPU for the old Packard Bell?

Do you think that an Antec Tri-Cool fan would be a good idea? How important will a new CPU cooler (hopefully Freezer Pro 7) and graphics cooler be?

I have a feeling that my case is getting dangerously hot with the new hardware.

Thank you again, linderman for your excellent advice.


----------



## Phædrus241

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

You don't even need a new CPU. Your system looks to be pretty similar to mine. I have an Intel Pentium Dual Core E2200 2.2GHz CPU, which is the budget version of the E4500, the only difference being the E2200 has 1MB less L2 cache, and thus 5-10% less performance than the E4500. Overclocked to 2.97GHz my computer runs any game on the market like that's what it was born to do, and even as low as 2.53GHz it'll handle most anything you throw at it. The E2200/E4500 are very overclockable, and because of the x11 multiplier each 10MHz increase of your FSB will give you .11GHz faster clock speed, so even very light overclocks, of FSB:240MHz rather than 200MHz, say, will give you a 20%+ increase in performance.

If your current mobo BIOS will allow you to overclock I would get a decent CPU HSF like the Zalman 9700 and overclock your CPU. If your BIOS doesn't have overclocking options then I would pick up an Asus P5Q or Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P motherboard in addition to the Zalman heatsink and do the above. Core i7 isn't worth it at this point, when prices come down and they iron the bugs out maybe. Save some money and just overclock, you'll be very pleased with the results.


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Do you think that I can fit in an Antec Tricool (92mm hopefully)?

The current CPU cooler is extremely large and I hope I can cut down on it's size so that I can fit in a case fan somewhere where it isn't blocked so that my graphics card can benefit from the cooler temperatures.

Here are some pictures; please tell me what you think:


































Grill is 13cm x 14cm


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Everything is virtually idle:










GPU doesn't look too good at all.


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Heya,

If you don't mind, I'd like to ressurect this topic... wow it's been so long.

I'm stuck with £160 now, and still have the same parts as previously posted:
Full HD Monitor (hoping to run all games in 1080p, hopefully on max settings)
Corsair TX850W PSU + 250W Packard Bell PSU
Packard Bell, Foxconn Motherboard (unknown memory allowance and PCI-E bandwidth)
Intel Q6600 B3 Stepping
HIS 1GB HD4870 IceQ4+
2 HDDs
One large Packard Bell case


Should I either buy a new 775 socket motherboard and 800/1066 MHz RAM for my Q6600 and attempt to overclock it with an Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7? Or should I save my money for something along the lines of a Gigabyte P55A board with an i5 750, which unfortunately I don't have the money to buy.

I'm leaning towards the 775 to be honest, as there's a huge price difference given that I'd have to buy a new CPU otherwise.

If this is the better option, which 775 board is best?

I'm hoping to get either a Gigabyte or Asus board for obvious reasons, however is it worth going for a cheap G41/P43 board over an expensive P45 one?

The only aim here to increase FPS in gaming at 1080p and high settings on latest games... it's pretty frustrating to think that I'm running GTAIV at 20FPS on the lowest settings.

Any ideas are much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I would defintely go with a high class socket 775 and the artic 7 and overclock your system!

dont mess with the cheapers economy boards though, they wont give you the overclocks your lookign for / need

the Gigaybte GA-EP45-UD3L is the board I suggest for you

you can easily hit 3.4ghz on air cooling, no sweat I have sold between 4 and 6 of those boards to Q6600 owners and they loved them once you easily overclock them, it makes all the diff in the world for that cpu and your gaming experience


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

youre definetly going to need some air flow in that case though! 51C is WAYYYYYYY too hot for your hard drive! should not get above 35-40C when the system is gaming!


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



linderman said:


> youre definetly going to need some air flow in that case though! 51C is WAYYYYYYY too hot for your hard drive! should not get above 35-40C when the system is gaming!


I know I know I know...

I have some stupidly large CPU fan as shown in the pictures, so no case fan is possible yet.

How easy is it to install a motherboard and CPU by the way?

I'm thinking about getting the UD3LR if there is no UD3L - would this be a good choice - I really can't remember the difference, but surely P>R>nothing?

I'm hoping to get one of those antec tri-color fans if they fit.

Let me just quickly get my measurement tape... 


Edit: 19.5cm Width, 41cm Height, 40.5 Length - what do you make of that?


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

the UD3R = Raid controller on board

UD3L = kind of like the starting point

UD3P= dual video cards crossfire (ati dual only)

anyone one of those three will suit you just fine! even the UD3P doesnt require two video cards to operate; but it can if you desire

swapping motherboards is not too bad if you do alittle research .......google search some youtube video's for motherboard replacment and system building

as for case fans; if you dont have any kids in the house (tiny fingers in fans is not good) you can cut a hole in the side case cover and mount a 120mm fan on the exterior of the computer side cover, it aint purr-ty but it works


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



linderman said:


> the UD3R = Raid controller on board
> 
> UD3L = kind of like the starting point
> 
> UD3P= dual video cards crossfire (ati dual only)
> 
> anyone one of those three will suit you just fine! even the UD3P doesnt require two video cards to operate; but it can if you desire
> 
> swapping motherboards is not too bad if you do alittle research .......google search some youtube video's for motherboard replacment and system building
> 
> as for case fans; if you dont have any kids in the house (tiny fingers in fans is not good) you can cut a hole in the side case cover and mount a 120mm fan on the exterior of the computer side cover, it aint purr-ty but it works


Once again, thank you very much for posting during such a busy season 

I was thinking of doing just that, however wasn't sure if it would be a good idea to mount a fan on the exterior (my panel already has a million holes) - I'm sure a fan would fit inside the case just fine when I remove my cooler master.

No need for Artic Silver, or do some products come with them already smeared on?

Once again, thanks for helping me out, however I have one last problem.

First of all, I was shocked to see the price of DDR2 RAM shoot up dramatically, and thus was wondering if it would either be worth it to go for 'quality' 2x1GB 4-4-4-12 latency (Corsair XMS2, Crucial Ballistix etc.), or take the chance on a cheap 2x2GB 5-5-5-18 latency (OCZ Gold, or buy 2 cheap, identical 2GB modules)?

What are your thoughts? :/

I don't feel like overclocking the RAM unless if I'm bottlenecked by it... which I can't tell. As far as I know, it's my HDDs that are suffering, and had I extra money, I would've bought the Samsung F3 (something for the near future?).

Thanks a lot as always

Edit: Oh, and by the way, I was talking about the UD3LR rather than the UD3R (which doesn't sell in the UK anymore along with pretty much the rest of the EP45 series). I'll check on the gigabyte website when I get the chance, but the differences are always so minute.


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

any of the gigabyte P45 chipset motherboards would suit your needs just fine

as for ram .........check the prices of the OCZ platinum high speed 800mhz ram 

I would defintely look for gamers memory (capable of 2.0 or 2.1 volts) I woulkd also stick with 2 sticks of 2gig ........never go 4 sticks of one gig,,,,,,,4 sticks does not overclock as well as two stick config


you will not need to overclock the DDR2-800 mhz memory but you will need to ramp up the volts to 2.0volts >>>>so make sure your memory is rated for it and not the economy ram which tops out at 1.8 or 1.9 volts

your FSB will be 380mhz x Q6600 multiplier of 9 = 3420mhz

therefore the memory would be running at 380 x 2 = 760mhz


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Unfortunately OCZ Platinums are miles outside of my price range with 2x2GB 8500 at £90

OCZ Gold on the other hand is £60 for 6400 5-5-5-18, and £70 for 8500 5-6-6-18:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-086-OC
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-149-OC

Here are several other options, however I think the OCZ Golds might be the best deals:
http://www.techsupportforum.com/f210/ram-comparison-444633.html#post2507614


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

you have no need for 8500 memory you would have to have a cpu capable of exceeding 425mhz on the FSB 

this one is a purrrrrrfect choice for your system

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-086-OC


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Sweet, thanks a lot.

I had no idea that the memory of RAM was dictated by the FSB of your CPU. Thanks for the info.

Do I need any arctic silver compound?


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

yes, you will need artic silver thermal paste , and you must ALWAYS apply a fresh dab each time you remove the heat sink from the cpu, even if you just seperate the two to have a look!

remove all old paste with 99% pure alcohol (drug stores)

enjoy the upgrade, I am sure you will be pleased :wave::wink:


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Thank you very much for all your help!

Do you know of a good substitute for an Antec tricool, given there aren't any in stock on overclockers.co.uk?

Which is the better compound?
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=TH-001-AR
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=AC-000-AC


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

either paste will work just fine; I personally dont find huge differences in them (IMHO)

when shopping for fans, make sure to research the rpm's of the fans, the cheapies will be lower rpm's the good 120mm fans will spin higher than 1700 rpm's and look for ball bearing design and not sleeve bearings

other than that, dont consume too much time on that


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

http://www.dvhardware.net/review16_ttsmartfan2.html


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Thanks.

I'll look into the fans and see if I can scrape a few more pounds


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Right.

I've just picked up a bargain off ebay for the UD3LR (£54), which is quite incredible, being in the UK (£23+++ off) 

I really shouldn't have bought the board so early, as not I'm querying compatability :'(

Mainly... I was wondering if my graphics card will fit :/

I'll keep you updated


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I'd just like to update you from here.

I've finally got the following purchases done and dusted:

Gigaybte GA-EP45-UD3LR
OCZ Gold Edition 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-6400C5 Dual Channel Series
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2 CPU Cooler (Socket 939 / AM2 / AM3 / 775 / 1156 / 1366)
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound (3.5g)
ArctiClean Thermal Material Remover and Surface Purifier - 60ml Kit


My system (not physically built yet):

Packard Bell 195mm W, 410mm H, 405mm L
Corsair TX850W
Gigaybte GA-EP45-UD3LR
Intel Q6600 B3 Stepping + Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2
HIS ATI Radeon 1GB HD4870 IceQ4+ Turbo
OCZ Gold Edition 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-6400 5-5-5-18
2x360GB Seagate Hard Drives


Of course, the biggest worries are *space* and *cooling*.

I didn't buy a fan because OcUK didn't have the Antec Tri-Cool, so I won't be overclocking until I manage to get my temperatures reduced.

I didn't buy a case because I want a solid one, which I currently don't have the money for.

I'll update you as the parts arrive, and no doubt I'll need help putting it all together, if even possible 



Here are updated temperatures now that the ambient temperature has reduced 










I'm guessing HWMonitor will display different results to Hardware Sensors Monitor however :/


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

temps are no longer in the danger zone; however there is considerable room for improvement and improvement will be needed before overclocking can commence

so a few questions are in order:

A) how many fans do you have in the case now

B) what size are the fans inside your box? (80mm or 120mm)

C) which direction does the fan in each location move air ?


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

you know there are ways to turn up the rpm's of the 4870 fan too ? they factory set them at 70% which is silly IMHO I set mine at 85 to 90%


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I'll have to look into changing my 4870 fan settings.

As for fans, I seriously don't have any. It sounds ridiculous; you see in the pictures, the CPU fan currently takes up all of the space.

Disaster... I'm 80% sure my motherboard won't even fit into the case I have at the moment. So I should make sure I buy one asap, or it's sort of a waste. i.e. with my PSU at the top, the maximum space between the base and the bottom of the PSU is around 26-28cm. Of course, there's no problem if the motherboard was placed lengthways, however as far as I can tell, you can't do that.

My budget has dropped to a mere 7 pounds, so I won't be able to do anything just yet until I earn some more money. However, which case should I go for? A quality yet mid-range Antec/CoolerMaster (e.g. Antec 300)? Or should I go for a less well known brand that's cheap, looks good, has good airflow and has 50+ reviews averaging at 4.5/5?

Thanks a lot for your help.

I'll have to tell you the verdict when the parts arrive.


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## grimx133

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

The 300 is a very well built case, would be nice if it came with a front intake, but many cases don't, specially at that price. Used a couple of them recently, was favourably impressed at the quality and size for the price. Luckily, I have extra fans lying around, so it wasn't a big deal. If you go that route, you should factor in the cost of another 120mm. fan, as well. Technically, anything that fits your components (read video card) will work, but some are flimsier and harder to work in than others. How it looks is important too, after all that's what everyone sees eh.


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Coolermaster centurion is another great case for the money

also dont overlook computer recycle centers or computer shops; they will often sell you a used mid atx case dirt cheap, I always keep 4 or 5 of these laying around the shop; then when a budget restricted customer comes in we have a nice cheap $15.00 replacement case instead of wrestling with some narrow sized "space saving" OEM case


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Thanks for the good tips there.

The motherboard has just arrived, and although it looks astonishing, as expected, it won't go inside 

Not a problem. A step by step process as you used to say 

The recycle centre idea is a very good one, and we have something called Oxford Freecycle here. I can look there, or, if I do find the funds for a quality case, my eyes are on ebuyer.com which has a huge number of cases on offer, ranging from a tenner to hundreds of pounds.

I'll have a look around while I wait for the arrival of the RAM and cooling.

Do you recommend I try the 800MHz RAM in my old motherboard, or do I risk applying settings that will need to be changed when installed into the new motherboard?

Thanks again


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



Dealmaster13 said:


> Thanks for the good tips there.
> The recycle centre idea is a very good one, and we have something called Oxford Freecycle here. I can look there, or, if I do find the funds for a quality case, my eyes are on ebuyer.com which has a huge number of cases on offer, ranging from a tenner to hundreds of pounds.
> 
> I'll have a look around while I wait for the arrival of the RAM and cooling.


It seems that there's nothing in Freecycle and that the Antec 300 at £40 seems to be the most suitable option so far. I think I'm almost certain that an ATX case is needed unless if the PSU and motherboard aren't on top of each other.


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

it wont hurt to try the 800mhz ram in your old board

you will find an amazing amount of case options at recycle centers; its amazing what some people will discard.........mind blowing at times


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

you will defintely need a M-ATX (medium atx case) many "OEM system builders" like dell, gateway, HP etc etc etc use very weird sized small form factor motherboards which only fit in their "weird" sized cases...........


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Thanks for the reply.

The RAM, cooler and arctic silver has arrived.

Do solid M-ATX cases have their PSU in a different place to on top of the motherboard, because the Corsair PSU that I have is pretty large?


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



Dealmaster13 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> The RAM, cooler and arctic silver has arrived.
> 
> Do solid M-ATX cases have their PSU in a different place to on top of the motherboard, because the Corsair PSU that I have is pretty large?


RAM is in and working, however interestingly, although 4GB is recognised (I'm running 32-bit OSes) the RAM is running in single channel and at 266MHz like the previous RAM with clocks now at 3-5-4-12 as opposed to 4-5-4-12.

Should I take the RAM out again for whatever reason?

Temps have increased again as I've moved the PC to my room. A new case should be on the top of my wish list now.

The Antec 300 is £40 by the way, while I'm pretty sure the Centurions are much more expensive (60s?)


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

the ram should be showing as 266mhz as that is the bus speed of the Q6600 (266 x 9 = 2394mhz) if that board was capable of overclocking then you could pump up the FSB of the cpu to a setting like 360 x 9 = 3240mhz which would then mean the ram would be running at 360 x 2 = 720mhz

but when you are running in single channel mode you dont get the "times 2" multiplier

buit your new motherboard will run in dual channel mode

as for cases

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/127584


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Thanks again for reminding me about the RAM 

Do you think the 330's 41cm height is adequate?

By the time I get my next batch of money (hopefully mid-late Jan), I should have enough money to buy a CPU as well as a case which would be useful, as currently I have a full set of Packard Bell parts and a full set of custom parts minus a case, CPU, hard drive and optical drive.


So I was wondering (of course this depends entirely on how much money I will actually have at the time), if I should go for a high end case, such as a CM HAF, Antec 902/1200/P183/P193, or stick with the budget CM Elites/Dominators/Sileo, Antec 200/300/600/Sonata or simply a low budget case. I'll have to think about whether I want something cheap, large, quiet or cool (cold).
Any of those that jump out as definitely something to save up for?

As for a CPU, I can either go for a cheap dual core, an expensive dual core, a cheap quad core or an expensive quad core. Only the cheap dual core CPU would go in the Packard Bell build, so I am willing to leave my Q6600 behind, mainly because it's not the G0 SLACR revision.
So, what pops to mind is the following:
E2k/E5k, E8k, Q9k, QX9k
Any idea on what might be the best option on a budget, and not on a budget?
I'm also thinking about taking the time to maybe overclock an E2k/E5k with the Gigabyte board, then stick it back in the Packard Bell board with a quality cooler... and of course fans - is this possible, given it's still a Packard Bell motherboard; maybe not, and if so, how about buying a new cheap motherboard - AMD is a possibility along with an X4?
A lot to think about there - any ideas? :1angel: :sigh:

Then there's the Hard Drive. Of course, with 2x360GB drives provided by the Packard Bell machine, I don't have to buy a new drive, so this will depend if I'm on a budget or not. To be honest, no one really wants the slow drives provided by manufacturers who's model name isn't even on the internet / supported 
Here, I'll be looking for quality over 1TB, so a few brand names spring to mind:
Samsung, Seagate, Western Digital, Intel (SSD), Corsair (SSD), Samsung (SSD), OCZ (SSD)
Samsung: F3, PB22-J (SSD)
Seagate: Barracuda 7200.12, Barracude XT (possible upgrade to X58A?)
WD: Caviar Black
Intel: X25-M
Corsair: P series
OCZ: Vertex Series
Again? Anything that springs to mind as a best buy, or possibly even a solid reason not to buy any?

Finally, you'll be glad to know , optical drive - meaning a DVD drive (SATA? Any reason to go IDE?) or a Blu-ray Drive. Again, quality here (mainly silence) or nothing.
These are the following that spring to mind:
Sony, LG or Samsung for DVD?
Sony, Pioneer or LG for Blu-Ray?
Any reason not to go for Blu-Ray?

Thank you very much yet again :smooch:

I hope you find the time to sift through my ideas.

Oliver


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

#1: cases are really a "taste" thing as long as all the guts fit in and you have good air flow, beyond that its eye candy time 

2: I would stick with the Q6600 for now / especially for a builder on a budget, there are cpu's faster and etc etc etc but I dont see them giving you a value upgrade, you will get a performance boost, but it wont be dollar friendly increase IMHO >>>> use the Q6600, you already have it

3: I dont care for the SSD drives nor the Raptors and Velociraptors >>>> waste of money big time .... WD black 32mb cache is plenty of drive .......get two of those in 640 gig or 750 gig far better move than TB drives

4: for my money blu-ray is waste of money unless "you need it" dvd writers like the Sony, samsung, lite-on (good but kind of noisey) are plenty of ROM drive


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Thanks for the update.

Do you know of any high performance case that seriously cuts down on noise and is there a specific fan I should look for that would help with this job?

As for the CPU, I really do want to buy a new one to go into the Packard Bell as that would allow me to hand over the Packard Bell to my family and keep the cutom PC to myself (which is actually currently being shared as a family PC - sorry if it wan't clear)

The SSDs sure do look expensive at the moment, however every review of something like the Samsung one is extremely positive with 5 stars, so in other words the performance increase would be incredible if you had the money to spare.
As for HDDs, I've always been a serious fan of Samsung no matter what the component is, and so the F3 has always been my hot favourite (just a shame about the minor price increase) offering performance and space for what used to be an unbeatable price. Of course I have nothing against WD, however they are comparatively more expensive. So when you mention 2 drives, are you suggesting that I run them in raid (given that I have the UD3LR); otherwise 2x640/500 would be much more expensive than a single TB.

Hmm, well it definitely all depends on whether I have the money to afford Blu-Ray, and it certainly doesn't seem to be an important choice of mine especially considering that I use discs sparingly. I think it would be a good idea to hold off on that until prices decrease futher.

Thanks again


----------



## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



linderman said:


> you know there are ways to turn up the rpm's of the 4870 fan too ? they factory set them at 70% which is silly IMHO I set mine at 85 to 90%


I just tried setting mine to 80% from an auto setting of 50%, and it really does start to get noisy (intense gameplay volumes) 

I think this might be partly down to the fact that either mine's factory overlocked or because HIS has installed a custom cooler.

Thanks for the heads up on fan settings, however.
Temps drop from 71 to 63 from 50% to 60% which is a solid change.
Maybe with a silent case, as I suggested earlier, I'd be able to crank up the fan speed whilst enjoying a quiet bedroom.

Although I must say, the temps would be much lower in a large case with case fans (The graphics card is shoved right down to the bottom of this m-ATX motherboard)


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

IMHO; I like cool -vs-quiet; cool temps ensures you never overheat components, not while under heavy load anyway, when not gaming turn them down

yes the ATI fans are noisey


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Do you think I should buy a dual core for my Packard Bell motherboard? Will I be able to overclock it in the UD3LR and then install it into the PB with cooling?

Or is a dual core 'so expensive' that it would be worthwhile getting a quad core for either board, given that I want to run both PCs and can't do this without another processor?


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## Dealmaster13

*.*

Sorry... double post


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

ahhhhh sorry I got lost on their being two computers ..............my bad

in this case I would use the E8400 in the PB the e8400 will actually do most all tasks faster than the q6600, especially as most games are really dual core efficient


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*



linderman said:


> ahhhhh sorry I got lost on their being two computers ..............my bad
> 
> in this case I would use the E8400 in the PB the e8400 will actually do most all tasks faster than the q6600, especially as most games are really dual core efficient


I know, and that's why I was wondering if that would actually be better in the custom build, since the Q6600 won't overclock as high 

How about AMD suggestions considering the limits of the PB board? A good idea?

Rough Pricing:
E7400: £85 (offer)
E7500: £92
E8400: £129
Q9400: £145
Q9550: £174

Does that sway your decision in any way?


Also, do you know how the cooling in my graphics card works? Temps always seem to hover around 70 degrees at 44% (auto). So if my case were considerably cooler, will the fan drop it's speed to match the current 70 degrees or will it stay at around 40-50% and allow temps to drop?

Thanks a lot.


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I would say any of those cpu's from the E8400 and up would be a good choice, get as much as you can afford

as for cooling in the case, the more air flow inside the case the better, if you card is 70 degrees at idle it must be smokin while gaming ? that is not good for a video card, its not that hard to bake a video card, especially not a 4870 those have dragon breath to begin with! I would not hesitate to cut a hole in the side case of the PB computer and mount a 120mm fan externally


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I'll run a test during gameplay and get back to you.

I think the card adjusts it's fan speed to keep itself at 70 no matter what.


----------



## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I think you will find during game play the low fan speed setting wont achieve 70C >>>>during intense game play 100C wont be a stretch to see without good case airflow

the ram will change speed for sure; but once it reaches it weak 60% rpm's thats all the cooling it will achieve. Ati cards suffer from cheap & noisey fans as a result they default them to foolishly low rpm levels.


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Sorry, I'm a bit lost.

Firstly, are you saying temps should easily rise to 100 without case fans?

What about ram and 60%?

Thanks again.

I'll see if I can do something GPU intesive tomorrow.


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

what I mean is; when a computer case doesnt have good air flow (good air flow would require at a minimum - one fan @ 120mm in the drong of the case bringing in cool air and one x 120mm fan at the rear of the case blowing hot air out of the case)

the ati 4870 makes alot of heat, and their fan speed is set too low IMHO, if your gpu is at 70C while idleing I would expect to see your gpu temps hit 100C while intense gaming 

use this program and check your system and hard drive temps (30 day trial)

record your temps after 15 minutes 

run anti virus scan / malware scanner / defrag your hard drives / play a music file all at the same time then check your temps

http://www.stvsoft.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=17&Itemid=33


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Windows 7

15 mins surfing the internet with few applications in the background:


















15 mins playing games on the internet with iTunes playing, AVG free full scanning, MSN, IRC, and a few processes in the background:










Temps don't go crazily high, however it is clear that my case needs cooling, and I must stress that I currently don't have the money to purchase anything else :normal:; when I do, it would be a whole bunch of stuff including a new case, some cooling and possibly some new components.

I'll try something GPU intensive for 15 mins next.


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I would defintely install at least one 120mm fan any way you can do it, or at least remove the side cover off your computer and put a house fan blowing into it , your AUX temps are seriously high and your hard drive temps are dangerous; at those temps data corruption occurs


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Alright.

Any fans in here, in stock that you'd recommend?:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?&groupid=701&catid=57&subid=4&sortby=priceAsc&rows=0



Do you mind taking a look at my pictures here?:
http://www.techsupportforum.com/2278301-post40.html

I really don't think there is a place for fan installation, even externally (as the CPU fan exhausts straight out the grill). The only suitable way around this is to get a new cheap case for my PB parts and a new expensive case for my custom parts?


Thanks again.


By the way, these are my graphics card stats for 30-45 mins of intense gaming (full screen to desktop screenshot in around 2 secs):


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## Dblanchard1278

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

After seeing the pic you posted I would suggest wire ties to provide some orginization to that case. Not only does the wires look messy but they are getting in the way of the air flow in the case. Air cannot move if you have all those cables and wires in the way, is there any space in between the case and front cover. And second question for you is, do you have any free 3.5 drive bays you can relocate the hard drive to?


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

I've recently reorganised cable management and I believe I don't have spare drive bays available.

So far I've only had one possible hard drive failure, and should be looking into a high performance drive in the near future.


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

@ Dealmaster

were are we now ? do you have more questions or troubles or should be mark this thread as solved and you can start another if needed? once threads get really long, potential helpers wont read and give input when they have to read pages of replies to get invloved.

best regards


joe


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## Dealmaster13

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

No problem.

We can mark this thread as solved.

Thank you for everything you've done, linderman.

It's been a long journey


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## linderman

*Re: Packard Bell IXTREME 2712 mobo/gfx/RAM Upgrade*

Dont hesitate to start a new thread if you have any quations at all :wink:


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