# Work In Progress



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

Ok, so I'm building a computer, and I was anxious to get away from my old Franky (short for Frankenstein).. so i took what parts i had already purchased, and went ahead and got some cheepo stuff to get it running.

what i want to keep on this system, is the motherboard, and the video cards.

Mobo:
Abit Fatal1ty FP-IN9 SLI

Video Cards:
EVGA Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT 512MB
I have 1 hooked up, 1 sitting in its box, and my sli bridge is on the way in the mail, it was left behind at my parent's house when i left to idaho

CPU: (junk)
Intel Celeron D 330J, 2666 MHz (20 x 133)

RAM:
2048 MB (DDR2-667 DDR2 SDRAM) (a 2 gig chip borrowed from my uncle)

PSU: Junk that came with the case i got from ebay 600w OKIA

OS:
Windows XP Pro, 32bit

I did an everest full report on my computer, and hosted the results on my ftp
www.scrollofresurrection.com/report
so if you want more info, click here

Anyways.. 
First thing I want to know..

Without changing any hardware, just bios, drivers etc. How can I get my system running faster?
Ive already updated my bios to the latest version i think, defragmented my hd,updated everything i could find, but it seems like my graphics is slower than my first system

pentium 4 with hyperthreading 3.0ghz
512mb ddrx4 (2.0GB)
nvid 6600 agp oc

Second question:
i have a tax return coming to me, and I'm budgeting $500 of it to completing my system.
What do you recommend i spend on?


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

1. Budget: How much money are you willing to spend on the new build?
$500 more than i already have, maybe more if its really worth it

2. Brands: Are there any brands of components you want or don't want?
mostly sticking with nvid, whatever is most compatible with my current mobo and vid cards.

3. Multitasking: Will you be multitasking with this computer and if so, how much?
3d gaming while listening to music and web browsing. 
or html editing while web browsing and image editing

4. Gaming: Will you be gaming and if so, how much and how new are the games?
I'm a wow addict, looking to get 60fps at 1680x1050 screen res, with a bunch of addons loaded.

5. Calculations: Will you be doing any intense calculations or media encoding?
I definitely like my ipod, and high quality audio, encoding FLAC to MP3, and also dvds to .mov or .mp4 for my ipod.

6. Overclocking: Do you plan on overclocking and if so, how much?
I'd like to do some overclocking after i get my system finished and stable

7. Storage: How much storage will you need and what will you be storing?
I'd like to set up some fast storage, for loading windows and programs, and lots of addons in WoW, with added storage for saving and converting my dvd collection onto my ipod

8. Legacy Support: Will you need support for older hardware like parallel, serial, or PS/2 devices?
No

9. Operating System: Do you want Windows XP or Vista, or Linux compatibility?
XP all the way

10. Case: Do you want help selecting a case and if so, how big do you want it?
Already have a pretty big case, im not much of a case modder, nothing fancy, as long as all my junk fits and stays cool

11. Accessories: Do you want a keyboard, mouse, or other items included?
I've already got a Merc Stealth keyboard. I am looking into getting a gaming mouse

12. Recycled Components: Will you be reusing any components you already have?
Using current mobo and vid cards

13. Monitor: If you want a monitor, what size do you want and should it be widescreen?
already got a 22" 1690x1050 5ms response time dvi-D

14. Stores: Do you have any online stores that you prefer to purchase from?
newegg, tigerdirect, ebay, whatever the best deal is

15. Location: What country do you live in?
United States


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Have a look at these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341011 750w	99.99	-20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036 E8500	187.99	
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227377 4gig 800	60.99	-10

348.97	-30
318.97


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

ah thanks, ram looks nice, you need special ram to sli your vid cards? didnt know.

cpu looks decent, im no expert on cpus..

psu looks ok, you sure itl match my mobo?
24 pin main mobo power connection, with an 8 pin for the cpu,
1 more 4 pin standard, easy


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The ram is tuned to the Nvidia chip set motherboard not the video cards.
The PSU has more different types of connections then you'll ever use.
Before you swap the CPU flash your Bios to the latest available while the current CPU is still installed.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

gotcha, i see the 8 pin on the psu, i get what you mean about the ram, sounds cool.
sorry about the slow response, somebody was eating my connection

what are the focus features on this cpu, any coolers you reccomend?
im curious about liquid cooling, just want to move past air cooling, any ideas to get me started?

any suggestions on getting my current hardware running faster while i wait for my tax return? graphics seems to hang up when caching, more often than my old agp card with the same ammount of vid ram.


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Most of you problem is the one stick of ram Dual channel is faster but you need 2 sticks to have it. And of course the CPU will hold you back.

I'm not an expert on water cooling, tried it a couple of times always found it a pain, Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7 for mild overclocking or the Zalman 9700 to go higher with the Zalman and good ram the E8500 will be stable at 4Ghz on a Intel chipset not sure about yours, but should be close. Here are some CPU charts comparing current CPU's> http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-q3-2008/Crysis-1680x1050,818.html


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

ah i see what you mean, so once i get some decent ram, maybe i'll get 4 chips of that nvid ram, and a decent cpu with good fsb, my fps should go up?
this is an awesome chart, i didnt know cpu's really had that much of an effect on framerate
im liking the looks of this cooler here
Zalman 9700

copper is nice, and if im not mistaken, i should be able to point the fan so that it blows up twords the psu, and the psu should then blow it out of the rear of the case
or maybe reverse the fan on the back of my case to blow out instead of in..
or even pointing it down, and using one of these in my mini pci-e slot
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835150006


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

You should have a front fan sucking in and a rear fan blowing out. When ever possible I place the CPU cooler so that it blows front to back.

What case do you have?


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

http://cgi.ebay.com/9257-Black-Comp...4|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:2|294:50

a friend of mine gave it to me, he got it from ebay, this is pretty much the same thing, i think the psu he gave me actually came from this deal too lol..

anyways, i got the big fan on the side,blowing in, fan on the front blowing in on the hard drives, fan in the rear of the case blowing in on the cpu

im fairly happy with this case, unless you have a reason to upgrade
but theres plenty of room in here


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

its a good idea to have a slightly higher air pressure in the case, to reduce dust. atleast thats what i heard, but right now i think my air intake is much higher than my exhaust


----------



## Jtsou (Jul 13, 2007)

Hey, you can clean out dust! Get that air flowing as much as you can.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

haha true true, but i did some reading up on air cooling your computer system.
heres a link i found, pretty informitive, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cooling

some key things i learned from this page.

slightly positive airflow is good.

bring cool in from the bottom of the case, and let hot air out of the top and back (already done by your psu)

never reuse hot air to cool something, as in.. its probably not a good idea to cool your cpu with hot air from your vid cards

strategically placing fans is often better, more efficient cooling, than just maximising airflow

correct?


----------



## Jtsou (Jul 13, 2007)

Yes, just move that hot air out of the case, my dual slot 8800GT does just that. 

As for wikipedia, anyone can post there. Not everyone can post here.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

true true, get hot air out asap #1 rule 

anyone can post on wiki, and anyone can post on here, just look at me


----------



## Jtsou (Jul 13, 2007)

I meant with expertise, you have no clue who is posting on there, but on here you can get an idea that people know things.


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

You should not rely on the PSU to remove the air from the case a good psu will vary the fan speed to control the psu temp and having all the fans blow in just pushes the hot air into the psu, as psu temps go up power ratings drop which causes more heat it's a viscous cycle.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

i see.. so should i have the fan on the back of the case blow air out?


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Yes that way the air flow in the case moves in the same direction front to back.


----------



## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

Fans blowing in from three different directions will create dead spots as well.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

man.. this cpu looks better and better the more i look at it, and the ram too 
can you reccomend a different psu?

im going to be hooking up 2 sata drives
need 2 6pins for the vid cards (i have the adaptors and plenty of those power splitters too)
24 pin for the mainboard
8 pin for the cpu.

4pins for
side fan,
front lcd fan controller/temperature display
dvd burner,
2-3 hard drives

id like to reduce cable clutter in my case.
i noticed the cable wrappings on this psu, looks nice
but ive also seen psus with removable cables.

ive heard about rounded ide cables, are these any good?
some way to hold exess cables together, and off to the side or something.


----------



## Jtsou (Jul 13, 2007)

Yes the rounded cables are good, but you can make flat IDE cables round by splitting them. 

Any cables you dont need can be put under the mobo tray or in unused 5.25" bays.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

Ok.. so i ordered these exact parts, put everything in.. seemed like it all went in good, easy, no problems.
flipped the switch, my fans started spinning, discs spinning up.. lights on the mobo normal, no vid signal, no lights on my usb keyboard.. so one by one, i started putting the old parts in, starting with the psu, i heard there were some DOAs with this one, so i started with that.. 
anyways.. now i've got the same hardware that you see in the everest report, the last known working hardware setup...

no dice.. 
no vid signal, no lights on my usb keyboard. no error beeps

so what do i do..? is mobo dead? should i order a new one? should i make the psu manufacturer pay for it or some ****..
bleh...


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Set it up out side the case to check for shorts to the case or misplaced standoffs> http://www.techsupportforum.com/f15/how-to-bench-test-your-system-262998.html


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

pulled the guts out, minimal parts attached, and i got it to boot into bios


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

Alternating beeps, high pitch, low pitch, cpu overheat warning right?
92'C is what bios is telling me, but people are saying this chip sits at 35'C idle, 45 under load, and im sitting in bios with 92C? heatsink doesn't seem hot at all, pulled it off, to get rid of the stock gunk and put some Arctic Silver 5 on, cpu didnt seem hot at all when i pulled it out, barely warm.
Booted it again, same warning beep, and bios still reads the temp at 92!

could there be something wrong with my temp readings? or is the cpu no good? Everything else seems fine, so whats the deal?


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

I'll pop the old cpu back in after the break and see what the temp reads on that. but the cooler is pretty much the same as my old one. I have an older copper block cooler, and one of those adapters, i could probably mount that one.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

old cpu is reading 29c


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The most common issue with the socket 775 heat sinks are getting all 4 legs locked in if not the CPU runs too hot. sometimes it's better to use an after market cooler with a back plate and screws. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835101027


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

I had all 4 legs locked down, and i re-seated the cooler several times to be sure.
and i managed to use the same cooler to get the old cpu to sit at 50C


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

CPU set aside, so far I have the psu and ram running and stable, no problems.
Thanks very much for your help so far wrench!


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Your old CPU is Celeron correct?
If so something wrong that should be about 20 degrees cooler, Are you using the old cooler or the new one?
When you say reseated did you lift the heat sink off the CPU after applying the thermal compound if so that can/will create air bubbles that cause high temps, once you place the heat sink in place and remove it even if just to look at il you have to redo the paste.

Now that you can get into the Bios what are you seeing for voltages?


----------



## Jtsou (Jul 13, 2007)

Ohh you doubled.


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Who?

Took 2 minutes to post and I got 2


----------



## Jtsou (Jul 13, 2007)

Haha you cheated . Mr. Mod.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

I've tried the old cooler and the new one, fresh application of Arctic Silver 5 each time. Made sure all 4 legs were locked in a couple times. Old cooler keeps the celeron cool, and so does the new one. Yet with either cooler on the new cpu, temp locks to 95, does not rise or fall.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

wiped everything down, made sure all 4 corners were locked in place, completely secure. no movement on any of the legs, no clicking at all.
I have - NEVER - seen this cpu read anything other than 92'C right from boot, it doesn't start low and go up, its 92'C right from power on. All values in bios are loaded to failsafe defaults.

If theres any setting you suggest changing, I'm open to suggestions.
Most of the problems with this upgrade so far, are due to my own human error, but I've tried re-seating this cpu with 2 different coolers, the same coolers on 2 different cpus the same method of attachment on each cooler, and this one sits at 92 instantly, the older one starts at 35, and rises slowly to 50. If I saw any number other than 92 on this cpu, then I would suspect that I'm doing something wrong, but I haven't.

The computer has been on, in bios with the cpu temp showing this whole time while I was typing this message, and even now, it reads 92'C.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

i did some looking around on google, and found that the TjMax on the e8500 happens to be 95C, could this be related to my problem?


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

What Bios do you have on that board look at the list of fixes on the first one on this page.
http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/down...CREEN=Fatal1ty+FP-IN9+SLI&pSOCKET_TYPE=LGA775


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

well i was pretty sure i had it updated, i used the bios flash utility that was on the mobo install disc, that was the first thing i did after i got it running the first time, because i heard there were a lot of problems with the original bios.

"Support Wolfdale & Yolkfield CPU" would explain some things though, since this cpu is wolfdale.

since the flash utility didnt work, how would you recommend i go about updating?
I have an old floppy drive sitting around somewhere, a usb flash drive, an 8gb micro sd chip with usb adapter, and sd adapter, and an sd card reader on my system.
I've tried getting the usb to format to a bootable drive to flash bios, but no luck, and i tried the same thing with the micro sd card, i would have made a bootable floppy drive, but i have no blank discs.
any suggestions? or should i just go out and get a blank


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Look on the Boot screen and see what Bios version is listed.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

on the boot screen it says v6.00pg, but that doesen't match up to any numbers on the list of bios versions. In the bios menu, theres a number 
(C55-MCP51-6A61IA1BC-16) BO2
I'm guessing that the -16 at the end is my bios version, which happens to be the latest version on the list


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I went back and looked at your Everest report you do have the latest Bios, but it seems the E8500 is only supported with the C0 stepping not the E0 on that board version > http://www.abit.com.tw/cpu-support-list/mb/nv_nforce650sli_fp-in9-sli.htm
The E0 is the newest version of the E8500.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

hmmm...


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

So is there any way I can return this one to newegg or intel for one thats more compatible?


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Email Newegg see if you can swap it for a Q6600.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

Ok, I sent an email to newegg, hopefully they'll understand, the sales page on the cpu didnt specify wheather it was CO or EO.


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Unfortunately the E0 has replaced the C0 and Abit hasn't done another Bios update to accommodate it, and since they have exited the motherboard business I doubt they will.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

Hope you don't mind me bringing up my old post.. I went traveling for awhile, and now returning the cpu is obviously out of the question.. I've decided that the cpu isn't the problem.. and my MOBO is a POS.. ABIT is pretty much a dead manufacturer, and support is highly limited.

Any suggestions on a decent mobo to replace this one? something compatible with what I've already got here..

I'd like PCI-E 2.0 SLI.. Something NVID friendly.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

Here's a new Everest report, hope it helps

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1079641/Report.htm


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

SLI Nvida chip set boards in the 7xxi series are buggy and not worth the problems, Intel CPU's work better on Intel chip sets.
Any of these will support the CPU and run well my personal preference is the Gigabyte boards. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16813128358,N82E16813131326,N82E16813128372


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

Hey again Wrench, thanks for the help.

The first one is out of the question, since I'll be using SLI on my 9600s, and that mobo has only 1 PCI-e slot.

The graphics cards I'm using are 2.0x16.. if using SLI, shouldn't I have 2 2.0x16 slots? none of these mobos have it.. one x16, and one x8 mostly..

I could always ebay the graphics cards and go with something else or ebay w/e, no big deal.

I like the way this one looks..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358

It has a wider range of CPUs supported, it also states "Crossfire Ready"
but I'm pretty sure that's for ATI cards only.. is it safe to assume that it would also be NVID SLI ready?


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The only boards you can use for SLI are the Nvidia chip set boards, your far better off using one larger card then 2 smaller ones in SLI. A GTX260 will out perform 2 9600GT's with a lot less hassle and heat. The UD3P is a good board but for single nvidia cards. ATI cards will run in xfire on it. 
The SLI boards are the 780i or 790i I don't use them at all any longer.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

I see what you're saying.. Thanks for the advice.
I'll post again if I need any more info.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

I got the E8500 working in my current MOBO using beta drivers found here

http://forums.hexus.net/abit-care-hexus/149415-bios-updates-intel-e0-stepping.html

These are not listed in the manufacturer's main website.

working flawlessly, running 60fps solo on WoW, rarely dropping below 50 on 40 man raid bosses.. still only using 1 vid card, will post an everest report later.


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

That's good to hear, it's a shame Abit never posted them on their own site.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

It seems I've lost power to USB..

After leaving my pc alone for some time, I came back and found the keyboard, mouse, and wireless adapter all unresponsive. There was power to them, they were all lit up just fine. But windows wasn't recognizing them.

I tried re-plugging a couple devices with no success. Rebooted the pc, still nothing.

Finally I tried resetting my saved BIOS settings with the reset jumper, and loading fail-safe defaults.

Booted up and found that now the USB devices don't even have power to em.

So I tried the reset again, this time I even removed the battery for awhile.

Same results. USB is dead.

I have an old PS/2 Keyboard but no mouse. So I'm pretty limited to what I can do here..

I searched a few forums.. People are saying that the chipset drivers may cause loss of power to usb. But I don't see how that's possible because USB was working just fine earlier today.


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Do you have anything other then the KB and mouse hooked up?

If you can get into the Bios check the voltages on the PC health page.

Have you tried Safe Mode?


----------



## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

Are you using the motherboard USB ports or the front panel ports?


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

Neither the integrated USB ports on the rear, or the front panel add-in ports work. I tried unplugging all USB add-in ports from the mobo, still no good.

I checked the BIOS, it says integrated USB is enabled, 2.0.

I managed to dig up an old usb add-in card for pci.

Everything is working, but the ports don't work until after the OS boot.

So if I want to enter any commands into the BIOS menu, I have to use the PS/2 keyboard.

Before I made that post, usb was working fine, before the OS boot, integrated right into the BIOS.

I tried unplugging everything exept the USB mouse.. which is probably the lowest powered USB device I have. And it did not work with integrated.

I think this is just a ****ty board, and I'm just waiting for something else to go wrong... Since ABIT dropped out of the game, support is minimal if any at all.

If I have any problems in the future, I have my eyes on this mobo;
http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=123-yw-e175-a1

Seems to be compatible with all of my existing parts, under $200.

Also, I really like the brand.. I've never had any problems with EVGA parts.
Nothing but complete satisfaction from them.


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

EVGA makes great Video Cards just about all I use, but for motherboards go with Gigabyte or Asus, and the Intel chipset.

If there is any warranty left on the board Abit is still covering warranties.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

There's no warranty left on this card, that's for sure.
I'll look around for some other boards.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

So I had been dealing with the system as is, 3 usb ports on the pci card.

System would only beep to post every once in awhile, so I would have to power it on and off until it started. It would randomly crash on me while playing WoW, the whole thing locked up, video was frozen keyboard unresponsive, even cap/numlock wouldn't respond, sound would also be locked up, repeating the last couple milliseconds of audio.

Well it crashed again today..

When I tried to boot the first time.. no beep, hard drives and fans behaving normally.. tried it again, no beep.. did it a few more times... By now it should have booted.. 

So I pulled the power, reset the bios with the jumper, and pulled the battery.
Left it powered down for a good 10 mins, came back and put the battery back in, and reset the jumper.

Same results.

Tried pulling the ram, tried just 1 chip.. No good.

Plugged in the ol' Celeron D. Still no beep.

Pulled the vid card.. cleaned the dust from the vid card, and mobo.
plugged it back in.. nothing.

Pulled the whole thing apart, and set it up out of the case, on a piece of cardboard on my desk.

Same results..

I think I can say with 99% confidence.. the board is dead.


Unfortunately due to an extreme streak of laziness and procrastination, funds from my home business have run pretty low.


On the bright side, my gaming PC is dead, which leaves me with nothing to do but work haha.

I'll have the funds in a couple days, and I'll look around for a decent MOBO with an intel chipset.


Not really much to say but RIP you POS Abit lol......:4-nopity:


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Just for the fun of it, if you have another power supply around I would try using it.


----------



## twistdshade (Feb 6, 2007)

Wrench, I went against your suggestions and got an SLI board (i just couldn't resist).

Before ordering I did test the old board with a different psu and got the same results.

The new board works flawlessly, no problems so far.

I'm now looking to overclock my cpu to 4.0ghz+

I opened a new thread on the OC board.

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f273/newb-oc-485984.html


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Out of the frying pan into the fire comes to mind

May it last longer then the last one did.


----------

