# [SOLVED] Thin Client + Server



## husla_16 (Sep 21, 2007)

HI guys, 

I have a question regarding thin client and server installation. What are Thin Clients? Is there any thin client software that will allow me to have 20 thin clients on a LAN with a Windows 2003 server? (I am assuming thin client is some sort of software on a workstation) can it be wireless or not?. Will the thin clients be able to run win xp pro sp3 and the server run windows server 2003 or windows server 2008?.
If I need to purchase 2 different software suites to have the 20 thin client and 1 server access, then please make suggestions.

This is in the testing portion at the moment. I am hoping to have this rollout to more than 250 thin clients and 2 servers at a later date, if it is determined that it is feasible.

I am looking for a thin client based software suite and server package.

Please respond


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## BigB28 (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

Hi...

Thin Client is basically Disk less Client...it works through boot ROM....It depends on your Workload....What kind of project....you are going on it run...

Over all performance is good... thin client is going good.... Different types of Think client available...


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## ChemicalAfinity (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

hi there
a thin client is basically a computer that only does remote desktop connections and web browsing on it. all of the other processing is done on the server. i suggest reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/thin_client

the advantages of them is that they are incredibly secure, and quite robust as they have no moving parts. they also only consume about 17 watts of power.

if you want to set them up, you will have 2 main options:
1. is to setup a "terminal server" where the thin clients will remote desktop to the server, and
2. setup a citrix server, where the applications appear to run locally on the thin clients but again all the processing is done onthe server

with either options you wil need to have a farily good server, and a fairly quick network.

hope that has help, and let me know if you have any more questions.
Muz


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## bilbus (Aug 29, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

There are 3 options.

MS Terminal server
Citrix that users Terminal server
Vmware Desktop Infrastructure - VDI is great, more costly then Citrix generarly but much more powerful and easier to manage


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## husla_16 (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

Hi guys, thanks for the responses. ray:

It appears as though some of the clients will be used for worksites and will need Microsoft Office STD on it, AUTOCAD, and some other in-house software. The thin clients will be running on its own Server 2003 architecture. (These will probably be the higher end client - AMD Sempron 2100+ Processor - I'm not so sure as to how long they will last out in the field as these are construction sites). The other idea I had was to have some of the lower end thin clients be used in-house in a few offices (for testing purposes - VIA Eden 800 Mhz - which will have the in-house software and Microsoft Office STD installed), as I am trying to get away from remote desktop helpdesk for workstation and laptop support. I am assuming there is no limit on how many Thin Clients I can connect to a Server 2003 or 2008, I can have active on it's own network since no one has mentioned a limit of any sort. I will be doing some research as to what option is best for the company whether it be MS Terminal Server or Citrix or the VDI. 

Once again, I thank you all for your input and advice. Please keep them coming. ray: as I :4-dontkno


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## ChemicalAfinity (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

hey there
in this case i think you would be best going with a terminal server, as this will make things alot easier to manage for the remote sites as everything is configured on the server, so you wont have to be at the client to make any changes. also you would be better with remote desktop as it will be alot quicker and better on bandwidth.

again, hope this helps
muz


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## djaburg (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

Perhaps I'm missing something in all of this, but running a "thin client" from outside the network is not possible if it's true thin client (ie diskless workstation). In virtually everything MS, even running terminal services requires licenses be installed for it to work. For example if you have people out in the field running their MS or Linux laptops (that have their own OS installed on the computer) and you want them to run a terminal services session to access a "remote desktop" to use specific apps, like an accounting program, remotely, you'll need to activate the terminal server portion of your windows 2000.2003.2008 server and install the applicable number of terminal service licenses for the number of simultaneous users you intend to have active sessions. Even running in a pure PXE Boot situation, where users have dummy terminals that boot an image from the server, you'll still need to have the applicable number licenses installed on the server to cover all the sessions you intend to have active. Running dumb terminals also cannot be done from outside the network because when the computer is turned on, the system will search the network to find the boot server and you really can't do that remotely. 

What is the scenario that you envision for your thin clients? Are they diskless workstations or computers running terminal service sessions to access server based applications?


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## ChemicalAfinity (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

thin clients are a computer that have little or no processing power and no harddisk etc. they however do have a small flash card installed in them, which usually has some bundled applications... these applications are:
1. Microsoft remote desktop connection, for connecting to a terminal server
2. Citrix client interface, so people can access citrix applications
3. occasionally they will have the softwate to access the VM's on the servers

when you are using thin clients, NO PROCESSING IS DONE ON THEM, it is all done on the server, and thus they are useless if you dont have a server

if you wanted to go with terminal services, heres how it would work:
1. you have a terminal server that the business headquaters. 
2. you open the ports on your internet gateway/firewall etc...
3. you then tell the computers to connect ot the external ip address of your internet gateway.
4. they login with their normal windows passwords and it all works
5. (optional) if you have a domain name eg. microsoft.com.au, make a cname so that they can connect to terminals.microsoft.com.au so that they dont have to remember an ipaddress

there is an accompanying document with a diagram to help you

the main reason for suggesting the terminal server is that all of the configuration is done on the server side, so it will be easier in the long run. also it is heaps better on the bandwidth, and it integrated with active directory so they only ahve one password to remember

has that cleared it all up for you???

djaburg:
i havent had a great deal of experience with citrix and vmware, however i know with therminal servers you only put the licences on the server, and the clients conect in, so there is very little configuration to be done on the thin clients. also you are rite in that thin clients are diskless etc, but they still have a few client side apps on them so that you can do things like remote desktop.

again, let me know if you have more issues understanding thin clients and terminal servers etc...


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## djaburg (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*



ChemicalAfinity said:


> i havent had a great deal of experience with citrix and vmware, however i know with therminal servers you only put the licences on the server, and the clients conect in, so there is very little configuration to be done on the thin clients. also you are rite in that thin clients are diskless etc, but they still have a few client side apps on them so that you can do things like remote desktop.
> 
> again, let me know if you have more issues understanding thin clients and terminal servers etc...


Perhaps I'm taking the thin client analogy too literal in that if you do a true thin client, there is no flash drive or anything else on the client machine. The NIC is configured for a PXE boot and it searches the network for the PXE Server and then downloads it's boot image to RAM Disk and then boots from there. Again, there are many ways to do the thin client thing and mine was just one of them. With respect to the licensing, I was referring to the two different methods I referenced, which was a pure thin client and an existing "normal" computer that used terminal services.


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## husla_16 (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

Hi Guys,

My last few questions regarding this thin client + Windows Server 2003 R2 and eventually 2008 is.....

We currently have desktops running Jonas Software (construction) from the Terminal [email protected] to 40 sessions at the same time. (Basically thin client desktop architecture there i think)

How powerful does the Server have to be to be able to run 150 thin clients - and possibly more at a later date - that will be either wireless or wired into its own server??.

Can you make a suggestion as to which processor (Quad Core, Core 2 Duo) RAM (How much is recommended), HDD, and RAID (1 or 2 or 3) if needed I should be putting together?
These clients will basically be running MS Office STD, Jonas Software and a few other in-house programs. A few will have AutCAD installed as well.

I am going to be ordering some systems for testing purposes and would need to have a server running so I can access software for the thin clients to use. Any suggestions you guys can make regarding the Server build will be considered regarding price, availability, time to build..etc.

My last question is regarding job site usage...

We have jobsites all over the city, do we need to have a server setup at each remote jobsite so that the thin client will be able to run properly?

As it stands now, we have some of our site managers using laptops which can be broken or -as what happend this morning - people spilling water on them (It was brand new). We want the thin client to be able to - in the long run - replace having to send out a laptop with every jobsite manager with access to wireless capabilities and LAN compatability.

You guys have been really helpful with this issue. I thank all of you who have respoded, and given me the info. ray:


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## ChemicalAfinity (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

whoops, accidentally hit the post button


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## ChemicalAfinity (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

firstly djaburg:
there are two types of pxe servers, "live", where the image is loaded from the server, and all the processing is done on the server and the thin client is just an interface for it. this is what citrix and VMWARE are used for.

the second type is "local" where the pxe server is only used to load and install an image to a PC.

and husla:
if you are looking to have 150 concurrent connections (at the same time) then what is done alot of the time is a terminal server farm is setup. typically you have one server for about 20-40 conections(depending how good the server is), and you would need maby 4 or 5 of them.

what happens is when a client connects, a bit of software in server 2003 will look at which server has the least active connections and put the user on that machine.

as far as what type of machine, id reccomend getting a server, with atleast 2x dual/quad cores, 4-8gb of ram. these ae the main 2 specfications you need to worry about, as most the data for the program should be on some sort of NAS or SQL server

one advantage is that this way you can expand and add new servers as they are needed. the other advantage is that if one breaks or needs to be switched off you still have others there ready and waiting.

id give HP a call and just explain that you are looking to put a terminal services system, and you want ot be able to have X connections and they will hlep you, and price up a system for you.

lastly, for the sites all round the city: will you have access to an internet connection on all of the sites?? if so then it will be much better ot have all the servers in your main office, that way they will be better protected and kept cleaner etc. if you wont have internet i would investigate the possibility of setting up a wi-fi network, (more about that later if needed)

you may also be intrested in looking at wyse, they have jusr released a range of thin client laptops, they will still require a terminal server, but they will be alot more portable as they wint require a screan and keyboard etc to be carried also, but for the site directors id still be looking at getting a proper laptop, somthing with a spill proof keyboard 

think that has answered all the questions, again, letme know if you have more questions.
Muz


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## bilbus (Aug 29, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

If you need high power desktops this is a neat idea.

But if you need to run low power apps, then terminal server is a decent way. I don't know how TS will work with autocad. RDP disabled hardware rendering.

I would get dual quadcores, with 16gb of ram. I just bought a dell 2950 with 2x quadcore, 8gb ram, 4x 146's SAS for $3600. HP is great though, cant beat dell's pricing though.

If you have a server room dell has a new rackmount desktop. 
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/workstation_precision_r5400?c=us&l=en&s=biz

It lets you put high power desktops in the datacenter or server room, and let people work as if they were next to the desktop. It has a neat IP KVM card in it.

but is not limited by distance like a normal kvm. Looks like if your wan link is fast enough you could be anywhere.

Nice thing is it only needs a access terminal, and the hardware is all in a server room.

perhaps you should


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## ChemicalAfinity (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

i must say, that looks really neat, however i dont think it will allow you to have multiple connections to the same computer at once. so you would need to buy one of these box's for each connection you wanted to have, and that will probably work out quite expensive, and hungry on power etc...

cant wait till they release them in AUS tho...


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## bilbus (Aug 29, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

yup, your right, i just reread your post =)

I thought you only needed a few, and they were high power cad desktops.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

I would want to see the CAD program in action at a remote location before going to a Thin Client We have about 2500 around the country running MS Office and Main frame emulators the main frame text only is fine but a large spread sheet in Excel will make you want to throw the thing out of the window.Images > double click on a large one and go get a cup of coffee it might open by the time you get back, and forget video files,
I know a lot depends on connection speed but we have had ISDN, T1, and now Fiber, it's ok for 90% of what we do which isn't very demanding, But they gave up on the training video nobody could see the 140x140 window it had to run in.


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## bilbus (Aug 29, 2006)

*Re: Thin Client + Server*

Wrench97, thats funny.

I was thinking the same thing, cad is not intencive, but i bet still enough graphics to make it run poorly remotely.


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