# Is a Win10 license obtained by an upgrade of a Retail Win7/8.1 license still retail?



## britechguy (Dec 6, 2019)

That's the question.

Since a retail license can be ported to as many machines (successively, and only be active on one at any time) over time, the license status as retail is relevant when new hardware is obtained.

I know that Microsoft has a way to move an existing Windows 10 license from one motherboard to another if you have to replace the motherboard on a machine that was already licensed with Windows 10, but that's a completely separate issue.

If you decide to ditch a computer on which you have a copy of Windows 10 that had its roots in a retail license for an earlier version of Windows, can it still be ported over. I guess I should add if so, how?

I seem to remember that the retail status never drops, but I figure someone here can confirm or refute.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

The retail license for home users is good on one machine. Therefore, it must be removed before new install. When a problem arises, a call to MS should straighten thing out.


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## britechguy (Dec 6, 2019)

Corday,

I understand that about retail licenses. What I'm asking is whether a Windows 10 license, that was created by updating from, say, Windows 7 purchased with a retail license, retains the "retail-ness" in that it could be uninstalled from one machine, and installed on another.

I would presume the answer is yes, and all indications I have indicate it's a yes, but I figure someone here probably has tried to remove a Windows 10 instance created via the upgrade mechanism that used a retail licensed earlier Windows, then install that Windows 10 on another machine.

I even realize that it may require intervention from Microsoft, as it so often does.

But can someone here confirm they've actually done it? That would be very handy to know.


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

Yes.....once the retail version of 7 is upgraded to 10 the license is as well. Yes...you can move it from PC to PC. I've done it for 7/8/8.1. But that was years ago for me when 10 first came out and MS was pushing users to move to 10. I've not done it recently....so I can't say. I would think it would stil hold true.


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## britechguy (Dec 6, 2019)

I also asked this on another forum for professional repair techs. Someone kindly quoted the correct "chapter and verse" of the EULA that confirms that "retail-ness" stays with anything upgraded from same:

https://www.technibble.com/forums/t...7-8-1-license-still-retail.85005/#post-701240


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

I have for a fact done exactly what you're asking, on a client's PC which originally had a retail Windows 7 Pro license, upgraded to Windows 10 Pro during the official free upgrade offer, only for their mobo and psu to get fried about three years later. It took the intervention of MS Support though, for the initial activation to be reset and allow for reactivation using the same Windows 7 Pro retail key.


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## britechguy (Dec 6, 2019)

Thanks to those who have reported on both their recent, and not so recent, direct experiences with moving upgraded licenses to new hardware.

It's appreciated.


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## Buzzman2344 (Apr 17, 2019)

I have windows 10 one a USB and if I do a clean install on another pc and log in to my microsoft account it said windows 10 activated with a digital license linked to my microsoft account and I upgraded from windows 8.1 on and I don't have that laptop any more . And I used windows 10 media creation tool at microsoft .co Down load windows 10 .


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## louwin (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm in the same boat, twofold. I have a laptop AND a desktop both with legally bought Windows 8 Pro both upgraded to Windows 10 Pro in the free upgrade period. My desktop has a dead onboard sound processor and needs replacing and I'm only holding back because I don't know where I stand. I would be really happy I I could just replace my motherboard but it is obsolete :facepalm: So would just replace the mobo and CPU? I really happy with my full case as I have, like, 14 internal HDDs and some external :blush:
My laptop has a dead Wifi processor also delayed replacement for the same reason. The laptop works with a "wired" connection so is not desperate. :hide:
I, too, would appreciate a legal answer and if possible to transfer to new systems?
And, if possible (and legal) How? You can't just make a System Image and restore on the new system, can you?


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

louwin said:


> I'm in the same boat, twofold. I have a laptop AND a desktop both with legally bought Windows 8 Pro both upgraded to Windows 10 Pro in the free upgrade period. My desktop has a dead onboard sound processor and needs replacing and I'm only holding back because I don't know where I stand. I would be really happy I I could just replace my motherboard but it is obsolete :facepalm: So would just replace the mobo and CPU? I really happy with my full case as I have, like, 14 internal HDDs and some external :blush:
> My laptop has a dead Wifi processor also delayed replacement for the same reason. The laptop works with a "wired" connection so is not desperate. :hide:
> I, too, would appreciate a legal answer and if possible to transfer to new systems?
> And, if possible (and legal) How? You can't just make a System Image and restore on the new system, can you?


The issue here is; you bought a laptop and desktop....which means these are OEM licenses and are not the same as a retail license.


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## louwin (Jan 3, 2010)

No, I bought a laptop and desktop with Windows 7. I then went out and bought two little boxes with 32 bit and 64 bit DVDs and Little cards with Windows Product Keys. Aren't THOSE retail licences?


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

louwin said:


> No, I bought a laptop and desktop with Windows 7. I then went out and bought two little boxes with 32 bit and 64 bit DVDs and Little cards with Windows Product Keys. Aren't THOSE retail licences?


Not necessarily. What you buy from a retail store is not necessarily a retail license. Retail stores also sell System Builders Licences which are basically OEM licences. Those ones are non-transferable.


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## louwin (Jan 3, 2010)

So is there anyway to tell if I have a "System Builder's Licence" or a Retail Licence or an EOM Licence?  :banghead:


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

That should be on the packaging/sticker.


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## louwin (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm sorry. I have an elaborate box that says Windows 8 Pro - Microsoft.
Inside - 2 DVDs and a Welcome Getting Started card, a paper card with a key in a cycle and Windows 8 Pro....
On the right flap, in a slot, Windows 8 Pre Product Key and a sticker (label?) with the 5X-5X-5X-5X-5X bar code. On the back of the outer box is "Windows reimagined" then Beautiful, fast, fluid Startup quickly etc etc
On the side there is a sticker with a couple of bar codes a BTS code ending with MSIN WIN PRO 8 32-BIT/64-BIT INTL VUP DVD MADE IN SINGAPORE and an SKU-3UR-00006 NO Retail, EOM nor System Builder etc codes....
Any help? :banghead:


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

That VUP designation means you have a Version Upgrade DVD and NOT a full version disc.

The sticker for OEM looks like this https://www.google.com/search?q=win...Rx6BAgBEAk&ictx=1&uact=3#imgrc=zeuDPrPqRiW6GM


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## jenae (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi, running this cmd from a powershell (admin) prompt will tell us all we need :-

cscript C:\Windows\System32\slmgr.vbs -dlv | out-file $home\slmgr.txt
notepad $home\slmgr.txt 

Post the notepad output here. 

The full report for licence diag is found from an elevated cmd prompt running this:-

Licensingdiag.exe -report %userprofile%\desktop\report.txt -log %userprofile%\desktop\repfiles.cab & start notepad %userprofile%\desktop\report.txt (press enter)

Again output is to notepad.


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## louwin (Jan 3, 2010)

Rnunning the first script produces an error - 

"out-file" is not recognised....

Runnning the second script produces....
****************************************************************
<DiagReport>
<LicensingData>
<ToolVersion>10.0.18362.1</ToolVersion>
<LicensingStatus>SL_LICENSING_STATUS_LICENSED</LicensingStatus>
<LicensingStatusReason>0x4004F401</LicensingStatusReason>
<LocalGenuineState>SL_GEN_STATE_IS_GENUINE</LocalGenuineState>
<LocalGenuineResultP>1</LocalGenuineResultP>
<LastOnlineGenuineResult></LastOnlineGenuineResult>
<GraceTimeMinutes>0</GraceTimeMinutes>
<TotalGraceDays>0</TotalGraceDays>
<ValidityExpiration></ValidityExpiration>
<ActivePartialProductKey>3V66T</ActivePartialProductKey>
<ActiveProductKeyPid2>00330-80000-00000-AA210</ActiveProductKeyPid2>
<OSVersion>10.0.18362.2.00010100.0.0.048</OSVersion>
<ProductName>Windows 10 Pro</ProductName>
<ProcessorArchitecture>x64</ProcessorArchitecture>
<EditionId>Professional</EditionId>
<BuildLab>18362.19h1_release.190318-1202</BuildLab>
<TimeZone>W. Australia Standard Time(GMT+08:00)</TimeZone>
<ActiveSkuId>4de7cb65-cdf1-4de9-8ae8-e3cce27b9f2c</ActiveSkuId>
<ActiveSkuDescription>Windows(R) Operating System, RETAIL channel</ActiveSkuDescription>
<ProductUniquenessGroups>55c92734-d682-4d71-983e-d6ec3f16059f</ProductUniquenessGroups>
<ActiveProductKeyPKeyId>3c40a285-2469-ae8d-e740-6be881cd3eb6</ActiveProductKeyPKeyId>
<ActiveProductKeyPidEx>03612-03308-000-000000-00-2057-18362.0000-2642019</ActiveProductKeyPidEx>
<ActiveProductKeyChannel>Retail</ActiveProductKeyChannel>
<ActiveVolumeCustomerPid></ActiveVolumeCustomerPid>
<OfflineInstallationId>324488113429906684295901896566082136790405141198240750707392241</OfflineInstallationId>
<DomainJoined>false</DomainJoined>
<ComputerSid>S-1-5-21-3509948935-3096939833-4236650231</ComputerSid>
<ProductLCID>2057</ProductLCID>
<UserLCID>3081</UserLCID>
<SystemLCID>2057</SystemLCID>
<CodeSigning>SIGNED_INFO_PRS_SIGNED</CodeSigning>
<ServiceAvailable>true</ServiceAvailable>
<OemMarkerVersion></OemMarkerVersion>
<OemId></OemId>
<OemTableId></OemTableId>
<OA3ProductKey>0xC004F057</OA3ProductKey>
<ActivationScenarioCode></ActivationScenarioCode>
<ProductKeyCode></ProductKeyCode>
<Manufacturer>ASUS</Manufacturer>
<Model>All Series</Model>
<InstallDate>20190921012003.000000+480</InstallDate>
</LicensingData>
<HealthCheck>
<Result>PASS</Result>
<TamperedItems></TamperedItems>
</HealthCheck>
<GenuineAuthz>
<ServerProps><?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><genuineAuthorization xmlns="https://www.microsoft.com/DRM/SL/GenuineAuthorization/1.0"><version>1.0</version><genuineProperties origin="sppclient"><properties>OA3xOriginalProductId=;OA3xOriginalProductKey=;SessionId=LicensingDiag;TimeStampClient=2020-06-19T16:47:30Z</properties><signatures><signature name="clientLockboxKey" method="rsa-sha256">DI9s3wKloUHqQ/yi3Ds8xd37qCdlAPP28Rpm9V9fSltC0mQKXPOWVNL8UUdl0q9bW0MYx6d////B5EMYhgHvQqh5LKgKGbnRZT6vKd4KMxXnOZ/f6MwVdxwnD7M7z91SCIg6JH/sjKd+EMxdRyptxLEi36HofjlnSCVDHjnor8Q=</signature></signatures></genuineProperties></genuineAuthorization></ServerProps>
</GenuineAuthz>
</DiagReport>
************************************************************

What does it all mean? Can I port it to another system? How?

TIA


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

Well, it says the active product key channel is RETAIL. Basically, yes, the license is transferable. However, things are not as straight-forward as you think when it comes to Windows 10 systems that have a digital entitlement license (those upgraded from duly licensed Windows 7/8/8.1).

Your case is one such scenario. As per the info you gave, your upgrade path was:

Factory installed, non-transferable OEM licensed Windows 7 bought with laptop/desktop --> Windows 8 Upgrade License, *not a full product package* aka *not standalone software* thus non-transferable (retains OEM channel of previous version) --> Windows 10 digital entitlement license via free upgrade (changed to RETAIL channel from OEM???)

You can see how confusing things get in the case of upgrades to Windows 10 via digital entitlement licensing. For store-bought, full product packages of Windows 10, 8 and 7, there is no confusion as to whether the license is retail or OEM.

Version upgrade packages, are not full product packages and have no distinct product key channel assigned to them. Tha's why the Windows 8 upgrade package you bought did not have such designations on its product key sticker. It simply upgrades the underlying, licensed lower version without changing the licensing channel of the underlying version.

Now, despite the channel saying RETAIL in your Windows 10 installation, you will most likely not be able to transfer it to another computer. This is because you don't have a product key for a retail full product package. *What you have is a product key for a version upgrade package*, which can't be used for clean installations of Windows or unlicensed installations of Windows.

See https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/49586-determine-if-windows-license-type-oem-retail-volume.html

Honestly, I don't know how your originally OEM licensed copy got changed to RETAIL during the Windows 10 upgrade, unless the desktop and laptop actually had full retail versions installed at the shop, and not factory installed OEM versions. I've done it many times for clients, whereby the PC they wanted didn't really come with Windows pre-installed at the factory, but they want Windows as the OS, so I buy a full retail or OEM copy and install it before delivery, depending on their purchasing power. OEM copies are cheaper than retail.


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## jenae (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi, you did not follow instructions for the first cmd, it needs to be run (as advised ) in Powershell(admin) not as you did in cmd prompt.


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## louwin (Jan 3, 2010)

jenae said:


> Hi, you did not follow instructions for the first cmd, it needs to be run (as advised ) in Powershell(admin) not as you did in cmd prompt.


Sorry, I was an Analyst/Programmer on a Unix mainframe and moved to a C64 then an Amiga then a Desktop PC from work.... then my own couple of bought PCs..... What's a Powershell(Admin)? And how do I get into it?

I had a long think last night (as it's been a LONG time)....

I bought my current desktop and was a bit dubious about the status of the W7! My local Men's Club was selling - Genuine W7 keys with duplicated DVDs. Then I bought my HP laptop with a fingertip scanner....
I then bought the 2 W8 packages and updated both. Very soon after the W10 free update happened.... And that was my tail of woe.... so Ii now have a RETAIL W10 that can't be transfered???? :facepalm:


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Press the *Windows *Key*+X *and select Powershell (Admin) or follow this:
https://www.top-password.com/blog/5-ways-to-run-powershell-as-administrator-in-windows-10/


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

louwin said:


> I had a long think last night (as it's been a LONG time)....
> 
> I bought my current desktop and was a bit dubious about the status of the W7! My local Men's Club was selling - Genuine W7 keys with duplicated DVDs. Then I bought my HP laptop with a fingertip scanner....
> I then bought the 2 W8 packages and updated both. Very soon after the W10 free update happened.... And that was my tail of woe.... so Ii now have a RETAIL W10 that can't be transfered???? :facepalm:


If the men's club's key was for a full product W7 retail licence, and you have that key, then yes, you have a transferable license. When transferring your Windows 10 license to a different PC, you will be asked for the full retail product key, and the W7 retail key will work.


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## louwin (Jan 3, 2010)

jenae said:


> Hi, you did not follow instructions for the first cmd, it needs to be run (as advised ) in Powershell(admin) not as you did in cmd prompt.


Done that, but it produced an slmgr.txt file of zero bytes. It did display a "picture" with much the same info as the second script and I really don't know how to post the picture here. I know, postit somewhere and include a link..... :banghead::huh:


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Some users changed the Power Shell to a Command Prompt in their Start menus, hence not always knowing what's what.


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## louwin (Jan 3, 2010)

Stancestans said:


> If the men's club's key was for a full product W7 retail licence, and you have that key, then yes, you have a transferable license. When transferring your Windows 10 license to a different PC, you will be asked for the full retail product key, and the W7 retail key will work.


I've got Buckley's chance of finding the W7 code NOW! I'm surprised I found the 2 W8 packages I'll admit.... It HAS been about 6 years!!!! :hide:


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## britechguy (Dec 6, 2019)

louwin said:


> I've got Buckley's chance of finding the W7 code NOW!


Yet another reason to love the Microsoft Account Linked Win10 User Account.

If I go to Settings, Update & Security, Activation Pane, in the first section I am told, "Windows is activated with a digital license linked to your Microsoft Account." When that is the case your need for a license key becomes moot.

There are scads of tutorials out there on how to transfer a license that can be transferred (and Win10 retail can) to another machine. You do need to take a couple of steps to link it to an MS account, if it's not already, before trying to transfer it if you no longer have a key. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=transfer+windows+10+to+a+new+machine

But, specifically, have a look at the MS Support Article: Reactivating Windows 10 after a hardware change. Even though the focus is on if you had to change out the motherboard on a machine where it failed, which is "in the eyes of Windows 10" the equivalent of a new machine, the basics apply if you're dealing with moving to an entirely new machine.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Not to rain on everyone's parade but the "retail license" as we knew it was gone in Windows 8, replaced by "system user media".
https://superuser.com/questions/494...icense-of-windows-8-exist-not-oem-not-upgrade


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

Things got pretty murky and confusing with Windows 8 licensing, then they changed again with Windows 8.1 and now 10! See https://bit.ly/2Cp0ooA for Windows 8

Windows 10 OEM license terms are here https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/Useterms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm while RETAIL terms are here https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/Useterms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

For all MS products and services, see https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/useterms

I find the Windows 10 EULA easy to read and understand, and the part about transferability is very clear.

OP's Windows 8 box pack is an upgrade package and not a full product package or standalone software. It is therefore non-transferable, regardless of Windows 8 licensing confusion. All in all, Windows 8 was quite the mishap, not just the licensing! It's a good thing we're past that and dealing with Windows 10 now.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Oh Boy thanks Stan I missed that somehow and have been operating under the Windows 8 thinking yourself. Glad to know.


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## LamyaMusa (2 d ago)

An upgrade of a retail Win7/8.1 license to Win10 still maintains its retail status, allowing for it to be ported to new hardware successively. Microsoft has a process for moving an existing Win10 license to a new motherboard.


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