# Need to build a powerful workstation ($10,000)



## ShauryaVerma (Apr 29, 2011)

Hi, 
My professor needs a powerful rig mainly for running FLUENT simulations and user codes. So I think we’ll need a powerful processor. The ones available are: 
1.	Apple Mac Pro: 2x6 Core westmere - $8500
2.	Alienware Factory OC 4Ghz - $6500

What do you think of these machines? Do you think they’re really really fast?
Do you recommend some other machines?

I was thinking that for around 10 grand I could build a much more powerful rig. I have a few questions:
1.	Can I take four XEON W3690 processors and put them together on a motherboard?

2.	Where do I know which motherboard to choose, with few tests/benchmarks?

3.	Do I need to look for servers instead? I need something like 24 cores.. the servers I’ve seen have slow individual processors, will that matter much? I was thinking that using a server computer as a workstation.

4.	RAM: 12GB 2000Mhz or 24GB 1600Mhz.. or more? Anything else I should take care of. I heard that with powerful CPUs RAM is often the bottleneck.

5.	Graphics card: not playing games.. so will I need something great. Only need it for CAD work.. if the prof still has money in the budget.. he’ll pitch for the best.

6.	HDD: are SSDs really that fast… will I need a very fast HDD, if I have a tonne of RAM?

7. Any other suggestions? Also, we might need it to serve multiple users... another factor in favour for a server... but we need maximum raw power.

Please reply soon guys, my prof needs it asap... and I can't wait to put my hands on such a godlike system.


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## ShauryaVerma (Apr 29, 2011)

In fact, it can be over 10K also, in case stretching the budget gets us considerably more power.


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## Stu_computer (Jul 7, 2005)

this is best done with cluster computing (ie: Windows HPC Server 2008 and a cluster of PCs) note the HPC server free 180 day trial download.

the Alienware Factory OC 4Ghz is an overclocked Core i7-980X ($1000 6 core CPU)

the Core i7-2600K does a remarkable job of challenging the 980x performance wise, so imagine if you were to cluster three Core i7-2600K ($300 4 core CPU) for less money and have 12 cores total.

even better a cluster of six is 24 cores with five boards** (GIGABYTE GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 @ $130) 
(**this board has integrated graphics, so can use it for general workstations as well as cluster runs. )

and add the graphics station ( GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD7-B3 $320) 

and add a CAD graphics card...
good graphics Quadro 5000 $1800
better graphics Quadro 6000 $3800

still lots $$$ left over for the extras (ram, drives, cases, psu) and these boards will take up to 32GB of ram.

some source materials:
ANSYS FLUENT Flow Modeling Simulation Software
Computer cluster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cluster Computing Info Centre
Overview —


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## ShauryaVerma (Apr 29, 2011)

Wow…what a forum 
Thanks very much for all the information Stu. I was wondering if I could ask you a little more.

I understand how the i7 2600 would be a better deal. Since the processor is the main component that I’m looking for, so I think I could dish out like 4K for that. Now for one, would there be cases where the raw speed of the processor would be important?

Also, you’re saying that I’ll have multiple motherboards right? (six on five) Since we’re still left with some money, do you think a RAMPAGE III would provide any advantage? Do I need one motherboard per processor? If I can have like 2 per piece, then twelve 2600s and six rampages would cost like $6000. Would this be overkill?

The quadro 5000 sounds good enough. A graphics station +graphics in the motherboard + a graphics card: would it help to buy each one, like do they have separate functions?

HDD: I was thinking like 2 OCZ vertex 3: 2x240 GB, with a 2tb Seagate. Can I have 2 SSDs in RAID-0 with a third HDD. Can the RAID part be made into 2 partitions?

RAM: 2 pieces of 2x6GB corsair dominator GT (2000Mhz) = 24GB. Is speed

Is there any other bottleneck? Or other features that I should look at. Do you notice any incompatibilities?

Sorry if I sound stupid, it’s just that I a pretty clueless about this all, as all I’ve built so far is an old Pentium 4.


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## Stu_computer (Jul 7, 2005)

RAMPAGE III, a nice board with a well deserved reputation. problem is its the wrong socket type (1366). otherwise it is very similar to the GA-P67A-UD7-B3 in most features (for an older chipset technology).

but if you want to use a i7-990x instead of the current generation i7-2xxx's thats also an excellent board.

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> Also, you’re saying that I’ll have multiple motherboards right? (six on five)


six boards. (i'm a lazy typist.)

five have an integrated graphics system so a graphics card isn't needed (but can be added if higher graphics needed later).

but the sixth, (the GA-P67A-UD7-B3), does not have integrated graphics. typically, high performance systems require dedicated graphics so including an onboard integrated graphic circuit is a space waste and becomes detrimental to board resourses.

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> HDD: I was thinking like 2 OCZ vertex 3: 2x240 GB, with a 2tb Seagate. Can I have 2 SSDs in RAID-0 with a third HDD.


there are many variables for storage methods used, such as the OS requirements and also the type of data that is being processed...and what the mainboard (or adapter card) supports.

some examples...

a typical microsoft windows OS and its applications can be installed in one partition whereas a linux OS uses four partitions (but these partitions can be on the same physical hdd).

games read a lot of data from a drive but don't write much, so a hdd with fast read times is important.
whereas data processing (ie: a video conversion) is very read/write intensive and since writes takes much longer than reads the hdd with the fastest write times is important.

using ramdisk(s) when possible will often be the best performance boost though.

but the overall objective is the same, when possible, keep the OS on a seperate physical drive from the data drive(s) so they're not competing with each other for access.

a blu-ray/dvd burner would also be advisable for long term (and incremental backup) storage.




> Can the RAID part be made into 2 partitions?


the OS sees a 'logical drive' not the actual RAID arrangement, so you can partition same as would do with a regular drive if you want.


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> Is there any other bottleneck? Or other features that I should look at. Do you notice any incompatibilities?


a computer system (like any system) is the complete package, not just the assorted components. for instance, that RAMPAGE III board is nice for a gaming rig but i wouldn't use it for SCADA.

can't plow the south forty with a porche and a john deer tractor isn't a chick magnet.
simply, define the solution to the problem first then choose the parts...not the other way around. 


a bottleneck really can't be identified until a rough draft of a system is defined. and usually the problem is caused by the designers themselves, (typically because it was cheap).
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> Do I need one motherboard per processor? If I can have like 2 per piece, then twelve 2600s and six rampages would cost like $6000. Would this be overkill?
> 
> Sorry if I sound stupid, it’s just that I a pretty clueless about this all, as all I’ve built so far is an old Pentium 4.


don't worry about your questions, thirty years and i sound stupid quite often...correct answers age very quickly because of the frequent changes in technology so always keep learning and keep an open mind.


the best solution is often the simplest. and considering your relative inexperience i suggest a different approach so this doesn't end in a disaster story for you...

get a Barebone Server and four 12-Core Server CPU and twelve compatible 4GB ram modules, the graphics card and your drives.

thats a no muss no fuss number crunching power house with 48 physical cores and 48GB of memory.

its more important that it be a working system than a 'wish list of killer parts' sitting on a repair bench.


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## NigelRen (Apr 18, 2011)

Have you had a look at 4U SUPERMICRO QUAD 6174 SERVER Quad 48 Core G34 128GB | eBay UK. ( Hope the link works ).

It's a 48 core machine ( 4x Opteron 6174 ) with 128GB ram for $8,750. There other variations around the Opteron 12 core chips, again depending on your budget.


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## ShauryaVerma (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks a lot Stu and Nigel. I'm sorry I couldn't respond earlier, cos I was practically not at home over the weekend. 

Unfortunately, my prof has decided to postpone the purchase by a month or two now.  So I guess I'll pitch him the systems in a month's time. 

Thanks to you guys I've learnt quite a few things about building a muscle computer system. 

Stu, yes, I understand how pre-made barebone server would be a safer bet than 'killer parts' that never get used to their potential. Thanks for all the time and the guidance. ray:

Have a nice day. :grin:

//PS: did I OD on smileys??


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