# Do I need watercooling?



## larryjr88 (Mar 9, 2008)

Hey guys. I'm just wondering if I would even benefit from upgrading to a liquid cooled system. I can't seem to find any good number data to see what the temperature differences are, and things of that nature.

Here's what I'm looking at. (I have one large intake side panel fan and two out flow fans on the front and back of the case)

- Intel Quad Core (OCed to 3.4) = 65 C
- Motherboard = 48 C
- 8800 Ultra = 76 C

Would I benefit from upgrading to water cooling? Or are these numbers acceptable?

Thanks


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

eep O.O yes watercooling is needed. or uber air cooling but i think water would work better and not sound like a tornado. whats your budget?


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## kodi (Jun 30, 2004)

larryjr88 said:


> (I have one large intake side panel fan and two out flow fans on the front and back of the case)


If the front fan is blowing out reverse it, it should be sucking cool air in.


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## larryjr88 (Mar 9, 2008)

forcifer said:


> eep O.O yes watercooling is needed. or uber air cooling but i think water would work better and not sound like a tornado. whats your budget?


My budget extends to whatever system works the best. My main worry is that my case may be too small. I'd probably have to work a bigger case into the solution. 

And to Kodi, I made a mistake. The front does suck in.


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## kodi (Jun 30, 2004)

If you don't want to buy a new case you can mount the radiator/s on the outside of the case but it is not a good looking result


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

what case do you have? its probably going to be around $600 when all is completed for the best of the best


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## larryjr88 (Mar 9, 2008)

forcifer said:


> what case do you have? its probably going to be around $600 when all is completed for the best of the best


I assume the $600 is excluding a new case.

My current case is a NZXT Nemesis

http://www.nzxt.com/products/nemesis/


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

yea its excluding. i bet we can fit a power system in that case. its small, but i think i know what to do. wont look really pretty though...


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## larryjr88 (Mar 9, 2008)

Yeah, pretty is important. =P

In that case, could you recommend some cases good for this type of thing?


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

the best for watercooling are either lian li or mountain mods. http://www.mountainmods.com/computer-cases-c-21.html?osCsid=fhhqf6tgbr12sgcs6c4130hkt7 are the MM cases, the absolute best in this situation. http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...th=204&zenid=3b2fec4910486d608bb35845123f06d6 are lian li's that would work. there are a few others, but those are the best. i recommend mountain mods because it will be soooo much easier to install, etc and will look awesome buts its all a personal opinion.


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## larryjr88 (Mar 9, 2008)

Cool.

What about water cooling gear itself? Any recommendations?


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

swiftech or dangerden systems


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

DD has fallen off the top. their recent stuff has sucked compared to people like EK, d-tek.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=199&products_id=23172 - one of the best CPU blocks. you can also get the apogee GTX. i think the EK supreme looks better, and it performs a tiny bit better
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=240&products_id=21306 should work on the ultra  also comes with solid top, but that one is cheaper
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=201&products_id=3112 will work well as long as you hide it well. 
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=201&products_id=4508 will also work really well. this one is probably better, but i dont like the attached res. if you get that one, make sure you get the 1/2" fittings
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=318&products_id=22012 a great res that lets you easily see the water level. again, get 1/2" barbs. thats VERY important
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=292&products_id=20719 about 7 feel should work. 
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=383 pick your poison  aka what ever color you want. i personal like UV green (i have pics if you want)
performance doesnt have the rads i like (and the ones that kick some serious a$$. not all rads are made the same) 
http://www.mountainmods.com/thermochill-pa-1203-radiator-p-306.html the current rad king with the exception of the 9 fan one (dont even think about it!) 
http://www.mountainmods.com/yate-loon-120mm-case-fan-d12sl12-p-424.html 3 of those on the rad. 
im guessing you want a case? http://www.mountainmods.com/u2ufo-brushed-aluminum-3-big-window-p-75.html is one of the ultimate cooling cases. for the spacing, make sure you get thermochill fan spacing. will save many a headaches

the rest is all personal opinion things. the case doesnt come with any fans, so i would get some that you look look cool. i would also get some UV cathodes, and maybe for rad get LED fans also. overall, its really expensive wow. we can get cheaper in a few areas but not much. this will keep everything at about 30-35c  depends on room temp but its amazing how well it will work


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## wello (Mar 15, 2008)

i tend to try and stick to the cheaper and effective cooling units, im currently using 2 pc's my main machine is running Water cooling, but on my other as an alternative cooling, i have 5 fans total (not including cpu fan or psu fan) i find that air being pumped into the computer from the sides and air pumped out the back, it keeps an even temp in the pc, and i havent had any problems with it at all. (either of my cooling systems) :tongue:


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## larryjr88 (Mar 9, 2008)

Cool. Thanks for the help guys.


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## intelfan (Mar 16, 2008)

i wolud sugest this case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811215006 or this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103010 which every one you like but i know one think that the second one well my friend has it it might look small on the picture but really its very big and about the water cooling i cant help you cuz i haven't every done it my self but planing on to


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

mountain mods are the best for watercooling hands down. there are a few others but MM are the only ones (i think) that will fit a 120.3 internally without modding. the problems with those cases is that they rely on huge fans, not multiple ones. for watercooling, you want cases that can support multiple fans in succession. look at www.mountainmods.com


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## Uncivil11 (Apr 11, 2008)

I think I paid 500 for my watercooling setup. I did it all piece by piece. I use danger den blocks for my cpu and video card, I have a 3 fan radiator with some 120mm high cfm low noice fan from coolermaster and an eheim pump. Tygon tubing all around. I built my own case too..It was definately more expensive than I had originally anticipated but well worth it.


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## -LONGBOW- (Mar 30, 2008)

There is a cheaper, arguably safer (liquidless), alternative to water-cooling that I can testify to.

*THE PELTIER COOLER*

Prior to applying one of these devices to my franken-rig I was achieving the following temperatures. All specs are at 25˚ Celcius room temperature, with the system idle. (windows XP loaded, with zero load on the system)

*BEFORE:
3x80mm Vantec Case fans (custom)
2x80mm Vantec PSU fans (custom)
1xZalman Pure copper Heatpiped 80mm CPU fan (custom)
1x30mm Northbridge fan (stock)
1x40mm GPU fan (stock)

35˚ Celsius on my CPU 
45˚ Celsius on my GPU
30˚ Celsius on my MoBo
45˚ Celsius on my Northbridge
*
*AFTER:
3x80mm Vantec Case fans (custom)
2x80mm Vantec PSU fans (custom)
1xZalman Pure copper Heatpiped 80mm CPU fan (custom)
1x40mm Peltier Cooler on CPU running at 1/3 Vmax (5v) (Custom)
1x30mm Northbridge fan (stock)
1x40mm GPU fan (stock)

11˚ Celsius on my CPU 
44˚ Celsius on my GPU
28˚ Celsius on my MoBo
35˚ Celsius on my Northbridge
*
Pretty scary huh? note how the CPU temperature is a good 14˚ Celsius *colder* than the ambient room temperature? Seems to defy the laws of physics, no? I don't really know why my other parts cooled down slightly as well... My CPU heatsink actually gets hot to the touch now. Whereas before, it was cool. 

It is attached to a CPU by slipping it in between the CPU and Heatsink. The 40mmX40mmX3mm model is a perfect fit for CPUs. A Heat-Transfer solution must be applied to *both* sides of the cooler; one for the CPU, one for the Heatsink

When DC Voltage is applied to the Peltier Cooler, The heat from one side is pumped to the other via modified silicon diodes within the cooler. If the heat can be bled off the hot side fast enough (with a heatsink) the cold side can achieve sub-zero temeratures without a load (heatsource) connected. 

The dangers of peltier cooling, as opposed to the; leaks, floods, shorts, and mechanical failures of liquid cooling, are as follows:

Draws an enormous amount of current; 

5Volts=5Amps, 12Volts=12Amps, etc...
Make sure your power supply can handle the drain.
If you plan to regulate it's temperature, a PC fan controller won't cut it. (stench, sparks, smoke, fire, etc....)
Can handle 150˚ Celsius. Heatsink must be high quality, or cooler will be damaged.

Ambient Humidity is an issue;

Frost/condensation can form on the processor if -temperature/+humidity is excessive.

Observe Polarity!!;

Hooking it up backwards will heat your CPU and cool your Heatsink.
It can be used in either Polarity, but Heatsink must be on hot side.
Electrical Components...;

These are not for the average consumer, you'll have to solder on a connector.

I used a DPDT switch, along with a couple of connectors from old case fans to allow me to switch the Cooler between 5V and 12V settings....

I'm too scared to flick the switch to 12V though!!
I want to put one on my Northbridge too but that also scares me 

At about 15$ in materials for the upgrade, I'm quite pleased.


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

For today's CPUs having a power dissipation of over 100W, building a Peltier CPU cooler using just a peltier element and a heatsink is quite a challenge, and ready-made peltier coolers are scarce and expensive. With such coolers, over 200W of heat may be dissipated inside the case. For modern CPUs, it is better to combine peltier elements with watercooling. In any case, the resulting cooling system will be expensive to run, due to its high power usage, and not very eco-friendly. The large power dissipation will require powerful (and thus loud) fans. 

Source: http://www.heatsink-guide.com/peltier.htm


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## -LONGBOW- (Mar 30, 2008)

Quote:[...]"not very eco-friendly"[...]
Oh yeah.... did I mention that they're remarkably inefficient, and decadent? But 115W for 7$CAD + shipping is pretty tempting... 

Quote:[...]powerful (and thus loud) fans[...]
Loud is not the word my friend...

My computer sounds like a hairdryer but my Athlon64X2 4200+ behaves more like an Athlon64X2 4800+. My solution??? Crank the volume, eh?


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## blackduck30 (Sep 7, 2004)

Well why do you not just get an Armor LCS case and upgrade the water block and pump.
I fitted a swiftech kit in my Armor LCS altho I had to modd the radiator mounts but to start with see how the standard radiator goes. It is all housed inside the front of the case.

http://www.xoxide.com/thermaltake-armor-lcs-ve2000bws.html

The case itself is great with lots of room and plenty of air flow

This was the kit i fitted

http://www.xoxide.com/swiftech-h2o-apex-ultra-extreme.html

My E8400 3.0GHz is at 3.6GHz with an idle temp around 25C and loaded around 31 to 34


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