# [SOLVED] Very, Very High-End build suggestions



## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

I made this build on PC part picker, using the 2013 recommended build list for reference. I want this machine for EXTREME gaming and MAXIMUM upgradibility in the future. What are your thoughts and suggestions? I was thinking about going to a socket 2011 for future-proofing purposes.

permalink to PCpartpicker: Intel Core i7-4770K, Asus GeForce GTX 780, BitFenix Colossus Venom Window (Black) - Dream Build - jengelhart's Saved Part List - PCPartPicker

Thanks


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I would recommend you look over our Suggested Build List: http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f255/tsf-hardware-teams-recommended-builds-2014-a-668661.html

Going with what you have listed-
The PSU is overkill. 750W is more than plenty.
The aftermarket CPU cooler & paste is not needed. The OEM heatsink is fine for normal use and comes with a thermal pre-applied.
Note: Cases are a personal choice but case windows scratch easily and become unsightly.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Alright, what if I used a GTX 780 rather than a GTX770, and my case of choice?

Also, what is wrong with my ASUS motherboard? In other words, what is better about the Gigabyte board?

Thanks


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Our build list is a guide to top quality parts. Nothing at all wrong with the Asus Mobo, I prefer/use them myself. Asus & Gigabyte are top quality and you can certainly use a GTX780.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

There is no such thing as future proof what you see new today is old hat in 6 months it is the nature of tech to change quickly.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Our build guide was also just upgraded to 2014 specs.

Your build is high quality but your little overkill on some parts.

In reality you could pick out $1600 and get the same performance of your build that you picked.

If you wanted to you could even add in that Noctua fan you have selected.

If anything on your build I would change the PSU to a 750W and drop down to a GTX 770 and you should be set then.

I also like Cooler Master, NZXT, Corsair or Antec cases.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I wanted to eventually upgrade to dual SLI 780s (eventually)

I really like the BitFenix case, so I think I will stick with that case

What I wonder though, is that since there is already a new socket for Intel, 2011, should I get a socket 2011 mobo so that I will be able to use it for years to come?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

SLI 780s is pointless. Your better off with just one 780.

A 1150 socket will do. No need to get a 2011.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

So, would you recommend:

The 2014 $1600 Intel build w/

-My case of choice

-The ASUS mobo

-and one 780


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I would do this:

-Our $1600 Intel Build

-Your case

-Keep out GTX 770 instead of the 780.

This is optional but you can use the money you save from the GTX 780 and buy this as well:

Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler - Newegg.com


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

As noted, two GPU's is not a good option. Few games/apps can even utilize two GPU's.
No need for the aftermarket cooler. The Intel OEM unit will be fine.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I don't want to OC, and I may still get the 780, but what about the mono.

I just saw the fact that the gigabyte mobocracy has the SSD and HDD hyper tie ring capability. Does the ASUS one have that?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Where did you see that?


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

It is at the bottom of the Overview section on Newegg. It sounds useful.

- The bottom line is that since there are several Mobos within the same $200-300 price range made by Gigabyte and ASUS, I want to find the best one (the one with the best performance and most features)


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I don't see it.

Anyways, I like Gigabyte boards over Asus just because I feel like you get more for your money.

But in all honesty, Gigabyte and Asus are matched in terms of quality.

I always say that:

Gigabyte Mobo: Top Features, Top Quality
Asus Mobo: Top Performance, Top Quality.

Its a personal choice for you.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Asus or Gigabyte, the "best" Mobo is one that has the features you want and actually need. Many included features are not needed, like 3-4 or even 2 GPU slots, 10 SATA connections, etc.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Alright, I think I will stick with the ASUS motherboard becasue if nothing else, it has the TUF case, and I have been really happy with their motherboards in the past.

On another not, what makes the RAM from the 2014 $1600 the best? The CAS rating is low (which is good right?) but what would be an example of higher performing RAM for reference?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

16GB, 1600MHz speed. Corsair branded. Not much better than that.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Here is the updated build permalink: Intel Core i7-4770K, Asus GeForce GTX 780, BitFenix Shinobi XL (Black) - Dream Build - jengelhart's Saved Part List - PCPartPicker


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Looks fine, however with that budget I'ld rather see a larger SSD. A 250GB or so. 

Also, if you're getting 16GB of memory, grab it as a 4 x 4GB or a 2 x 8GB kit.
Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!


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## T_Rex (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Looks great so far god luck with your build. Please post pics of your build in the case forum if you wish, since the fellas have helped you out here it would be nice too see!


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

2x4GB of RAM is more than enough for gaming.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

no such thing as future proofing tech changes every few months but in reality a system like that should last atleast 5 years. But if you have to have the latest thing all the time then you will need to upgrade every 3-6 months.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

How many watts would my PSU have to be to support dual GTX 780s down the road?

Which of the RAM kits offers the best performance?


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Sorry to double post, but PCPARTPICKER said that with another 780 I would draw 707watts of power. I want to OC using ASUS's cool auto-overclock feature, which means I should have more power right? maybe 860w?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Like we said SLI is pointless.

But to answer your question, you would need around 1000W - 1200W.



Tyree said:


> 2x4GB of RAM is more than enough for gaming.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Why is SLI pointless?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



jengelhart said:


> I want to OC using ASUS's cool auto-overclock feature, which means I should have more power right? maybe 860w?


OC'ing newer 3.0GHz+ CPU's is basically pointless. Any performance increase would only be seen in benchmarks. And, if you do OC, never ever use the Mobo's app. OC'ing should only be done manually. We have a OC section with some stickies to use as a guide.



jengelhart said:


> Why is SLI pointless?


One 780 will own any game out there. Two GPU's cost twice as much, require/consume more power. generate more unneeded heat in the case and you get a small performance increase in the few games/apps that can utilize two GPU's.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

800w is the recommended stat from nvidia for sli.

The auto overclocking features don't give you as good a result as proper manual overclocking, but 850 is about right.

Although as said sli is basically pointless whilst in benchmarking you might get 50% increase in performance in reality when gaming you might get 20% increase in games that can actually support it.

1200 bucks for two graphics cards for a possible 20% increase in performance is pointless imo. If I was going to spend that amount of money on two GPUs I would want atleast 70% increase.

When using two gtx780s for example you would not get both cards running at the same speed etc as one is a slave and the other is the master. The slave can't work as fast as the master and as said before the game you are running needs to be optimised for it.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Interesting,

Another point I would like to make is that I have seen many reviews of the ASUS auto-OC'ing, and the results have been good.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Was it Asus GPUs?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

If for some reason you just have to OC a 3+ GHz CPU do it manually.
OC'ing using the Mobo app may work but to avoid problems do it manually.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Here is the latest build. Before commenting understand that while I want to put a HARD budget of $2300, I want to get the most possible. (high speed RAM, nice cooler, nice mobo, GTX 780, etc)

Intel Core i7-4770K, Asus GeForce GTX 780, BitFenix Shinobi XL (Black) - Dream Build - jengelhart's Saved Part List - PCPartPicker


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I use the cooler you have it is very good especially for overclocking.

Be aware though that you may have to get low profile RAM i.e that is ram without a heatspreader because the noctua cooler is very big and will go over your RAM slots or atleast partially. Noctua has a memory compatabilty page that shows you what RAM is ok and what isn't.

You don't need 860w if your not going sli. 650w will be just fine especially if your going to overclock.

The asus auto overclocking features are good but they will not get better results than manual overclocking as the peramaters they have set are very very cautious on the voltages etc. Overclocking isn't difficult.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Spending more on unneeded components doesn't increase performance. 
You could get the same performance for less....... but it's money.:smile:


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

It's a high quality build that will last you for years.

If your happy with it then it's good to go.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Alright, I agree with you guys that some of the parts are a little ridiculous, so I will put-up one more build with water-cooling (which I want to try) and a more cost-effective case. Also that RAM is a little over-priced.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Water cooling offers no extra advantage over air cooling. You only run the risk of leaks.

If anything stick with Air.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



Masterchiefxx17 said:


> Water cooling offers no extra advantage over air cooling. You only run the risk of leaks.
> 
> If anything stick with Air.


Ditto ^

The Intel OEM heatsink/fan is more than capable if no OC is applied.
OC'ing will result in higher benchmarks, bragging rights and void warranties.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Either way, I want to try (really for the experience if you catch my drift) building one of the custom water cooling systems. Then I want to put the non-conductive (red) liquid in them. IT WOULD BE AWESOME

Also some Red LEDs - NZXT just released the awesome red and black H440

*So which custom kit is the best?
Which cooling liquid shoud I use?
Which thermal paste?
Which Red LED fans?*


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

If your going to go mad then go the whole hog Custom PC; Mineral Oil Submerged Computer
Mineral Oil Submerged PC
Forget liquid cooling; give your PC an oil bath | PCWorld


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## Flight Sim Guy (Dec 19, 2011)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

:hijacked:

That is the coolest thing ever! Wow. Impractical, but cool.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

To get back on track, I found this kit:
XSPC Raystorm 750 EX240 Extreme Universal CPU Water Cooling Kit (New Rev. 4 Pump Included) w/ Free Dead-Water! - FrozenCPU.com

My main question is: *Will this set-up give me better temps than a x60 Kraken or the like?*


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Building a Water Cooling System*

I plan to build a custom Water-cooling setup for two reasons:
1- the exceptional cooling
2- this is important, the experience of it

This will be my first time building a custom setup. I would like to essentially build this loop: XSPC Raystorm 750 EX240 Extreme Universal CPU Water Cooling Kit (New Rev. 4 Pump Included) w/ Free Dead-Water! - FrozenCPU.com

*The problem is that the case I want to use, the NZXT H440, does not have any 5.25" optical bays (where the res would sit). What should I do about this?*
*Also, if I wanted to build one without a kit, what are ALL of the parts I would need?*
*Lastly, what coolant should I use?*


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

No one knows because all cpus are different so they can have different normal operating temps also it depends on your ambient temps also.

In my experience water cooling doesn't make a jot of difference when compared to air coolers apart from that they are more quiet and have a possibilty to leak.

But as Joeten said oil cooling is now popular I know someone with an oil cooled rig.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

*Re: Building a Water Cooling System*

Unless you wish the project to end in utter failure, any custom loop set, even one billed as 'Universal' is going to require a huge amount of research on your part before you start ordering parts. Spend a few days (or weeks) with your favourite search engine and read/view everything you can find. 

Per the provided link: Where does it say the reservoir must mount in an optical bay? Yes that is often a convenient place, but nothing is written in stone.

Individual parts needed? : The fact that you even ask that tells me you have yet to do any research on the subject. To start with, you need a water block to mount on each device you wish to cool, circulating pump, fluid reservoir and radiator(with fans). Each of those items will require two (or more) fittings (with O-rings). Depending on the layout, you will most likely require several 45 and/or 90 degree adaptors. Lastly, six feet or so of high quality hose plus your choice of coolant.

All coolants are basically the same. 99% distilled water with a few added chemicals designed to prevent corrosion and to inhibit algae growth. Some will have coloured dye included but that is only window dressing.

To get you started, this article from Anandtech does a good job of explaining the setup and installation of a fairly extensive system.

This short vid from Youtube shows the installation of your linked system (or one similar to it).
A Beginner's Guide to Water Cooling Your Computer - YouTube


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Since posting I have done a good bit of research. I will admit that some of the reason I want to water cool is case dressing. However, I now for a fact that water cooling is a viable practice. I understand the risk, but it seems possible. I mean nobody would do it if it ALWAYS ended in disaster. The custom kit I asked about would work for my CPU, and is recommended for first-time users (which I happen to be). My main issue is that the bundled res is mounted in 5.25" bays, and my case of choice does not have them.

It have seen a video where they demonstrated the installation of this kit, and the res was mounted in 5.25" bays


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Its upto you what you do, have you thought about an eclosed water cooler such as the corsair H100i? it will do the trick and you never need to replace the fluid or anything like you have to do with full on kits.


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## Flight Sim Guy (Dec 19, 2011)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Your case doesn't have 5.25" bays? :huh:


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



jengelhart said:


> I will admit that some of the reason I want to water cool is case dressing.


 :smile:

Bling is OK but how many people will actually ever see the PC other than yourself? 

There is "always" a chance for leaking/damage to expensive components when liquid is involved and liquid will offer no better cooling than air. In reality, rarely better than the OEM heatsink/fan. But, your money.
If you just have to use liquid, greenbrucelee's suggestion using a closed unit would be a very good option.



jengelhart said:


> It have seen a video where they demonstrated the installation of this kit, and the res was mounted in 5.25" bays


I don't know for sure what case you're intending to use but it will have 5.25" bays. One or more of those will be used for an optical drive but Mid-Towers commonly have at least 3 5.25" bays.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

The case in question: H440 - NZXT
Made specifically to mount multiple radiators. And no, it does not have any external 5¼" drive bays though I wouldn't expect any trouble finding a place to mount a reservoir.


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## Flight Sim Guy (Dec 19, 2011)

So you're building this high end awesome PC and using a MID-SIZE tower with no optical drive mounting?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



Tyree said:


> I don't know for sure what case you're intending to use but it will have 5.25" bays. One or more of those will be used for an optical drive but Mid-Towers commonly have at least 3 5.25" bays.


It would appear I wasvery mistaken. The H440 - NZXT, for some unknown reasoning, has no 5.25" drive bays.
3 x 120mm fans in front, behind a door. :smile:


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Yes, this is a unique case that NZXT has just recently put out. I suppose my question really boils down to this:

I want to try constructing a custom water-cooling loop (just for the CPU) because 1- I have almost as much fun building the computer as using it, and 2- It will look epic with red tubing. I am worried, however, that it my leak. I am confident in my abilitly to construct the loop as I have watched around 13 videos on it and read many guides. *I want to know what would be the thing that would actually make it leak if I constructed it correctly?* Also, the bundled custom kit I suggested comes with that wierd res, so does anyone have an idea where to put it? There are HDD bays, but not exactly 5.25" slots.

Thanks in advance. Here is an updated build with a little more bling, and some other changes: Intel Core i7-4770K, Asus GeForce GTX 780 - Red&Black Work in Progress - jengelhart's Saved Part List - PCPartPicker


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## Flight Sim Guy (Dec 19, 2011)

I understand having fun building. It's a blast. 

Since you're mainly doing the water cooling for looks why don't you think of LEDs? You can get tube ones thar will look the same, plus others. That would remove the risk of leakage, and you could use a better case.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Change the PSU to either a XFX or Seasonic branded unit. Corsair isn't as high quality as they used to me.

8GB is more than enough RAM but its your choice and money


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

@Masterchiefxx17 - I wanted the corsair unit because they have the individually sleeved cable kits. Is there such a thing for XFX or Seasonic?

@Flight Sim Guy - What do you mean?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

So what? Buy the Corsair cables and use them on your XFX or Seasonic unit.

Besides many, many companies make colored PSU cables. Not just Corsair.


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## Flight Sim Guy (Dec 19, 2011)

You should be able to use LED light tubes to create the same effect as water coolant tubes. Without the hassle. 

As for that case, if you are building a gaming PC, why are you using a mid tower case? I would recommend a full tower case for extra upgradability and easier access to the internals. And since it doesn't have any 5.25" bays you'll have to use a portable optical drive for your CD and DVD/Blueray discs.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

@Masterchiefxx17 - I will look into the PSU

@Flight Sim Guy - I would like an example of what you are saying, but otherwise, I really want to try water-cooling. What do you think about this kit: Aquatuning -Your watercooling and modding distributor - Alphacool NexXxoS Cool Answer 360 LT/ST - kit 40188

Also, whould you guys recommend any PCI-E mounted SSDs?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Mid-Tower cases are fine for a gaming PC and most have adequate room for the normal builds. Many, if not most, top quality PSU's have cable sleeving and especially the Modular units.

SSD's are expensive and offer little more than faster boot/access times.


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## Flight Sim Guy (Dec 19, 2011)

I am on mobile at the moment, but when I get back on a PC I shall try to find some examples. 

@Tyree
True. But I was thinking that since he is going all out anyway he might as well get a full size.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



jengelhart said:


> What do you think about this kit: Aquatuning -Your watercooling and modding distributor - Alphacool NexXxoS Cool Answer 360 LT/ST - kit 40188


$185 for something that will be no better than a $100 liquid unit, a good air unit, or even the OEM heatsink.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

@Tyree - Alright, lets put it this way... What custom water-cooling kit would you recommend if I wanted to start water-cooling (with compression fittings)

Also, what do you think about getting a PCI-E ssd *VS* a standard SSD


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## Flight Sim Guy (Dec 19, 2011)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Something like this: 50ft LED Neon Rope Light Flex Tube Sign Decorative Home Indoor Outdoor Red | eBay

50ft LED Neon Rope Light Flex Tube Sign Decorative Home Indoor Outdoor Red | eBay


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I decided that I would just go with the x60 Kraken, and think about a custom job down the road. I like the Red LEDs idea. What are some good, quiet, red LED fans to put on the radiator and such?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



jengelhart said:


> @Tyree - Alright, lets put it this way... What custom water-cooling kit would you recommend if I wanted to start water-cooling (with compression fittings)
> 
> Also, what do you think about getting a PCI-E ssd *VS* a standard SSD


I wouldn't recommend any liquid cooling for the reasons that have been stated multiple times in this thread.
Basically the same for SSD's. When the price comes down to a viable bang for buck, I'll start including them in my retail builds.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Actually... I'm doing custom water cooling (I don't want to argue about it)

Other than that, what is a good brand of Red LED fans?

Also, are you sure that these cables: PSU Accessories - Power Supply Units

will work with this PSU: SeaSonic 
SS-760XP2


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Those are made to fit Corsair supplies. I wouldn't expect them to fit a Seasonic.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

if you go for an SSD go for a SATA 6 SSD and don't go below 250GB especially if you use steam and are a gamer.

TIP: move all your temporary files and app data plus my documents, my videos and pictures to a mechanical drive as it will save space on the SSD.

I have a 120GB SSD and even doing the above only leaves me with about 50GB free and thats with steam on it and 5 games plus the OS installed.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



jengelhart said:


> Actually... I'm doing custom water cooling (I don't want to argue about it)
> 
> Other than that, what is a good brand of Red LED fans?
> 
> ...


I was taking about something like these:

Newegg.com - Computer Hardware, Silverstone, Internal Power Cables


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Thanks all, please do not close this thread just yet, but I have come to some conclusion:

- I am not sure about the case, but other than that I am pretty locked with my parts

- I will stick with the stock CPU cooler (even though it pains me), and wait a while before eventually (inevitably) doing a custom loop for CPU (and maybe... even GPU!)

- I found some case fans I like

- Here is the build: Intel Core i7-4770K, Asus GeForce GTX 780 - Red&Black Work in Progress - jengelhart's Saved Part List - PCPartPicker

- If you feel like you really need to tell me something, I am all ears. *What I really want ya'lls opinion on is if the ROG PCIE SSD is faster than any SATA III SSD (don't worry about the price)*


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Still overkill on the Mobo & amount of RAM but the rest looks good.
Memory Support for the Asus MAXIMUS VI FORMULA is DDR3 3100(O.C.)/3000(O.C.)/2933(O.C.)/2800(O.C.)/2666(O.C.)/2600(O.C.)/2500(O.C.)/2400(O.C.)/2200(O.C.)/2133(O.C.)/2000(O.C.)/1866(O.C.)/1800(O.C.)/1600/1333

Memory Types for the i7-4770K -DDR3-1333/1600


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I want the TRIDENT X series because of the high OC ceiling. The TRIDENT X series only came in a few frequencies that within $25 of eachother, so I just decided to pick the best one.

The mother board you might be right about, but it has some features that I really love: the wifi-go attachment, the 4-way optimization OC, AI suite II, etc... ALSO IT LOOKS BAD**S

I also decided against the ASUS RAIR SSD because it did not fair very well in benchmarks compared to two SAMSUNG 840 Pros in RAID 0 (which I am getting instead)

*Which brings me to my question: Would you recommend two 128GB Samsung 840 Pros in RAID 0? How safe is RAID 0 for OS installation?*


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

If one SSD fails then all of your data is gone in RAID 0.

One SSD will do just fine.


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## Flight Sim Guy (Dec 19, 2011)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I would put your OS on your SSD and then keep all your programs and files/documents on your HDD, that way if the OS needs reinstalled you don't lose all your other stuff.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I am really happy about the build, but there is still one embarassing thing missing: The CPU cooler. I flat-out just don't want to get an air-cooler which leaves water cooling (and mineral-oil XD)

So if you had to choose between closed-loop and custom which would you choose?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Closed Loop. There is less to go wrong.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

I think I will just settle on the NZXT Kraken x60, as the case I want was actually MADE for it.

So now we are down to the tertiary components.

What do you think of these fans? Cooler Master SickleFlow 69.7 CFM 120mm Fan (R4-L2R-20AR-R1) - PCPartPicker

Will they fit on the Kraken?

Also, what is the best thermal compound to use?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

You'll save a little bit more for a better unit if you get this one:

CORSAIR Hydro Series H100i Water Cooler - Newegg.com

Link to the case?


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Alright

The fans I mentioned?


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Other than the warranty, what makes the H100i better than the X60. I haven't used or tested either, but all the online reviews give higher marks to the Kraken. If your case will accept the 280 mm rad, I'ld go with the X60 and avoid any possible issues with the Corsair Link software.

Those C-M Sickle Flows are alright for an inexpensive fan. Decent air flow but I find them a bit noisy. I definitely would not replace the stock fans on the Corsair or the NZXT with them.


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## Astara (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



Tyree said:


> I would recommend you look over our Suggested Build List: http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f255/tsf-hardware-teams-recommended-builds-2014-a-668661.html
> 
> Going with what you have listed-
> The PSU is overkill. 750W is more than plenty.


FWIW -- When I bought a Dell T7500, I bought a 1000W PS to allow for high end graphics cards. It was not enough due to the way Dell had crimped in the wiring harness, though most people wouldn't have run into the problem. 

I needed two 8-pin connectors for the graphics card. Dell in its pictures and layout showed 2-6-pin and 1 8-pin. It wasn't until a replaced system down the line (PS burnt out), that _I_ discovered the problem. One of the 6's was on the same rail as the 8. So the Nvidia GTX590 thought it had the power it needed (2-6's adapted to an 8), but on full draw, the system would power cycle. 

Dell went to a 1200 or 1250W PS in their next model -- but I don't seem to see any similar models on their site now. I.e. before I always got a board that was dual-CPU-unit capable. Doesn't appear they offer that anymore -- thinking that with 6 (8?) cores/CPU is enough for a workstation. Very sad -- since both blessing and curse, w/the last generation of board design, Intel went to a NUMA (Non-uniform-memory-access) for it's memory system -- essentially including 2 cpu's + memory buses for dual systems and needing a "QPI" data link to transfer memory between the two CPU's. 

So tried to always start my lower end buy-in with getting 1 cpu in dual systems, 1 GPU in dual capable systems... initial 2GB (4 years ago) in a 192GB capable system (96/cpu). 

But just the dual-GPU - on 1 card 590's taxed a 1k PS. The system is slotted for 2 GPU cards -- so theoretically one could have 2 dual-gpu cards -- but the PS would have to be big -- maybe 1400-1500 watt. 

As far as progs using multiple GPU -- most modern games do. 
With the GPU also being used for physics emulation (I can easily peg both gpu's).

As far as cpu usage -- ehhhhh... right now for games, 4 is probably enough for Core, but for devel, my linux system can use a full 12 cores during a fair number of ops -- builds, and VM's being prime examples.



> The aftermarket CPU cooler & paste is not needed. The OEM heatsink is fine for normal use and comes with a thermal pre-applied.


(Unless you are overclocking...but for my own use, I've found the included heatsinks for cpu's to be adequate)



> Note: Cases are a personal choice but case windows scratch easily and become unsightly.


*IF* I were so inclined, -- glass wouldn't have that problem, but I put my systems out of site' for the most part (helps with the fan noise).


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

yeah but the gtx 590 had a higher power consumption than the card the op is getting

Most games do not use sli or xfire to be worth the cost of two cards.


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## T_Rex (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Astara yes most modern games do use multiple GPU, but they don't do it efficiently on a per-cost and per-power usage basis. It's also not as stable a setup, both graphically and stability wise as a fast single GPU setup.

I agree with Tyree and Greenbrucelee's stance on this.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

if i went sli I would want atleast 70-100% increase in performance and this doesn't happen.


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## Astara (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



greenbrucelee said:


> if i went sli I would want atleast 70-100% increase in performance and this doesn't happen.


Rarely do you get 100% with CPU usage if you are talking efficiency -- 70% is the high end.

The 590 is a dual CPU on 1 card and isn't 2x the price of a single CPU card. 

I'm not a heavy gamer, but more often than not, the games I've played have used the CUDA technology in addition to a full GPU. Without the physics engine in the GPU, the games often *drop* corresponding features because it isn't practical to do the calcs in the CPU -- so you just won't have the physics effects be realistic if you don't have the extra HP (horse power ;-)). 

It's also the case that I have multiple screens. One at 2560x1600 (most games can easily tax 1 GPU at that resolution) and the other I usually use for video (it's a flat screen LCD 1920x1080, hanging on the wall). 

While I usually don't use the LCD while gaming, I often do use it for HD video decoding using the 'CoreAVC' decoder which uses Nvidia GPU's to offload decoding onto the GPU using either CUDA or DIVX -- while having PhotoShop or even FF w/video with canvas/GLX acceleration going on my desktop. 

Having both of those go at once is easily better split between GPU's not to mention, unacceptable latency problems in reconfiguring a GPU for CUDA use as separate from graphics use (up to 1 second in GPUs of the 590's generation). That would kill some of the usages I use it for.

It varies in popularity, but Nvidia keeps pushing that way -- in providing CUDA-compute examples of GPU usage that can achieve extreme performance boosts when compared to CPU or multi-CPU usage. Some of those algorithms (do scale to 2 or more GPU's with >70% efficiency).

If you are purely looking at the most efficient cost/dollar, a low-end machine is far more efficient.

If you do go with any multi-CPU (not multi-core), but an extra physical CPU as on intel's 5000 series MB, you do need to use Xeon's instead of i7's. You will usually pay a some penalty, if you go for a dual GPU card over a single due to the same reason dual-core's are downclocked from single-cores (back in the P4 days). You'd have to use real physically separate GPU cards. In that setup, a standard case with standard venting & cooling probably isn't sufficient.

Nvidia cut corners awfully close on the 590 in getting 2 cards of that generation and power into 1 card -- besides down-clocking the maximum rates over a single 580 (and later 585?) card, to keep the power+heat envelope below maximums needed for 2-8bit connectors -- and even then it pushes the limit (see attached graph for GPU temps -- top two lines. Top line is 98C, 2nd to top is 95C. Both jump to max usage during most games. During non gaming you can see most of the time one GPU falls to ~50C (idle temp given proximity to other GPU in same package) with active GPU staying ~ 80C. Only at night when monitors have both gone into standby do both temps fall below 50C.

(lower line/lines are CPU; with 1st half forgot that setting Open Hardware Monitor affinity to 1 CPU meant that it only reported on that 1 CPU's temp. From ~T-560 and on I set it back to allowing any CPU so it could record all CPU's).


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Thread Hijacked?


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

nah it some bloke trying to proove sli is worth it when it isn't.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Ok, a newer set of questions after some decent research.

1) Should I wait for Haswell refresh (Broadwell)

2) If I could get a really good deal on a 780 Ti (like $650) should I spring for it?

3)Would these fans be good? Corsair 
Air Series AF140 Quiet Edition

4)What red LEDs should I get?

5)If I wanted to use the individually sleeved, red, modular cables for the PSU, which cables would I need exactly EX: 24pin main power, 6pin PCI-E, etc.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



jengelhart said:


> Ok, a newer set of questions after some decent research.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



> 1) Should I wait for Haswell refresh (Broadwell)


 You'll be waiting almost a whole year.



> 2) If I could get a really good deal on a 780 Ti (like $650) should I spring for it?


 No. I think you can find countless posts in this thread stating our answer for SLI.



> 3)Would these fans be good? Corsair
> Air Series AF140 Quiet Edition


 Corsair makes fine fans.



> 4)What red LEDs should I get?


BitFenix BFA-ACL-12RK6-RP Case Accessory - Newegg.com



> 5)If I wanted to use the individually sleeved, red, modular cables for the PSU, which cables would I need exactly EX: 24pin main power, 6pin PCI-E, etc.


 Newegg.com - Silverstone PP07-IDE6R 11.81" Sleeved Extension Power Supply Cable, 1 x 6pin to PCI-E 6pin Connector

Newegg.com - Silverstone PP07-EPS8R 11.81" Sleeved Extension Power Supply Cable, 1 x 8pin to EPS12V 8pin(4+4) Connector

Newegg.com - Silverstone Model PP07-BTSR 11.81" Sleeved Extension Power Supply Cable, 1 x 4pin to 4 x SATA connectors

Newegg.com - Silverstone PP07-MBR 11.81" Sleeved Extension Power Supply Cable, 1 x Motherboard 24pin Connector


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## Astara (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



greenbrucelee said:


> nah it some bloke trying to proove sli is worth it when it isn't.


May not be worth it for your working set.

That doesn't mean it is true for everyone.

The OP DID say he wanted to future proof his system.

If he moves towards workloads that can use multiple GPU's, having a system that can support them would future proof his system in that regard.

If you only single-GPU-capable games and only on 1 screen, then you won't see any need for SLI. If someone has a different workload that uses programs that DO use multi-GPU's, then SLI is worth it -- just that simple.

Some asked in private message what games could use multi GPU. I'd point them to SLI | Technology | GeForce. 

It really depends on whether or not the SW you use can or will make use of SLI. The OP did mention "future expandability" as a desire. In that light I suggested a larger PS for what SLI would need.

If you don't want it, don't dis it for others who might.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

theres no such thing as future proofing, tech changes every few months.


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## jengelhart (Mar 22, 2013)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

As far as the sleeved cables, I know where I will get them. I mean to ask if you guys could visualize the system generally in your heads, and figure how many of each cable I will need. Here is the current system: Intel Core i7-4770K, Asus GeForce GTX 780 - Red&Black Work in Progress - jengelhart's Saved Part List - PCPartPicker

I may spring for the 780 Ti

My reason for waiting for Broadwell is because the prices for Haswell will go down drastically

I also want to wait untill ASUS releases their new GTX 780 Poseidon card so that I can get their current GTX 780 card cheap, and then put the Kraken G10 with a Kraken x40 cooler on it


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

Don't expect any "drastic" price reductions with the Haswell CPU's when the next series is released. CPU prices don't go down like some other components.
If you intend to build now, go with the Haswell, if you are going to wait for the next Intel CPU series some of the other components you are considering will also be outdated.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

about 10 to 12.


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## Astara (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*



greenbrucelee said:


> theres no such thing as future proofing, tech changes every few months.


It depends on what you mean by future proofing.

For me, -- and what many people mean for a *useful* definition of the phrase, is buying a system I can afford and use today, that I can upgrade over the next few years to something that may be _up_to_ 10x as powerful as what I have when I bought it.

I may not be able to afford a 8-12K$ system ever, but I've probably put that much into some of my systems over the years
in upgrades as I've bought new processors, 2nd processors, upgraded GPU's and bought 2nd GPU's upgraded memory from initial layouts of 8-16G up to 32G... disks from minimum needed for a RAID @ 250GB ea, to 15KSAS for boot & an addition disk controller that allowed expansion to 29x2G SATA's for disk & option to expand that w/ more external storage and/or a another disk controller to upgrade from 3->6G SAS and add another 24 disks to that.

I never would have been able to afford, NOR **use** such a powerful machine -- but buying a machine that I would be able to upgrade for the next 5-8 years, I've bought machines that have lasted nearly 10 years. They may have started those lives as primary workstations and ended those lives as linux servers -- but having the flexibility to upgrade piece-meal over the years is what many (if not most) people refer to when they talk about future proofing. 

Yeah, any given machine may not be able to ride the "latest tech curve", but it can be upgraded throughout and past it's useful life.

I still have a 900MHz celeron that performs useful work on my net. It only has 512K and a 40GHD, but it does fine as a backup network gateway, DNS server and time keeper.

It was never a desktop or primary computer -- but as a network resource computer, it's performed admirably.

For people who don't have a vested interest in selling new HW, it's more than possible to future proof a computer -- as it doesn't involve riding the 'lastest and greatest tech' curve, but stretching the life of that machine to do useful work.


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## Astara (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: Very, Very High-End build suggestions*

This is an edit of the previous note, but apparently there's a short time limit on re-editing, that expired while I was editing (I write too slowing).



Tyree said:


> Don't expect any "drastic" price reductions with the Haswell CPU's when the next series is released. CPU prices don't go down like some other components.


They used to before AMD dropped out of the high-end and focused on the power-efficiency and value end.

Intel has a monopoly in the high end chips, and for nearly a decade have shown monopolistic pricing strategies because they have no competition in the high end.

That's also why the home computer/home desktop is going the way of the Dodo bird. 

Intel's strategy changed after the Pentium 4 when they hit the wall in providing fast single-CPU products. Their first replacements the Core Duo, and later, Quad chips still were of value to home users -- especially the duo -- in that you needed a 2nd cpu just to run all of MS's background tasks. 

There was a sizable amount of home/user software that could benefit from a 2nd core, so later even the quad was useful to home users.

But check Intel's line up. Do you see any Corei7 chips with 6, 8 or 10 Cores? I don't know of any -- but with Xeons, yes. Also, you can't use a Corei7 chip in a DUAL CPU machine.

Where is intel focusing their energy? Putting more stuff on 1 package allowing for better 'client' computers that put everything on as few chips as possible (opening the door for hand held and mobile units). You don't see wired options for home users increasing at earlier rates, but, instead -- wireless options and speeds increasing.

Intel is focusing on technology to support 'virtualization', so high-end buyers (Corps) can make use of 6-10 CPU machines with up to 10 cores/cpu by providing "dial-up mainframe computing services" (the old term for what is now called WiFi Cloud services). 

The idea is to get tech away from home users so they can again be put in their 'place' -- as consumers. This nonsense of home users creating things like Microsoft and Linux, threatened, then killed off too many 'Corps' (old mainframe makers). The Corps want the capital in their hands and want consumers to 'rent' space / resources in the cloud so they are more easily 'controlled' and don't develop "*disruptive technologies* (P2P is bad for Corps in any form, as it leaves the Corp computer out of the equation).

So look for prices for home computer parts to NOT fall the way they used to. Disks are another example -- They used to fall by ~ 70-90% every 18 months. Since ~mid 2007, prices on disks fell way off that curve. With 3-4TB disks now, still not down to 1TB prices of 5 years ago. However, much of that was due to the deflation of the US Dollar for overseas goods by as much as 50% from many estimates (electronic goods -- with most of them coming from outside the US haven't the way they used to -- rather they remained stagnant as the dollar's value fell by 50%, effectively pricing electronic goods and parts (like we use for computers) at near double what we would have paid 6 years ago for similar parts).

Not exactly OT with high-end build suggestions, BUT pertinent to the point that one *can't* expect prices for parts to fall the way they did in the 90's or early 00's. :sad:


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