# choppy mouse in games



## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

hello all, I'm new here so go easy on me =p

I've been having a really strange problem for a few months now. I built my PC back in November but it wasn't noticeable until over a month later (convenient, eh?). Anyway, I get periodic choppyness in games, not a delay or lag, but screen looks as though I have 10 fps, very choppy. But here's the catch, my fps doesn't drop at all, and it's ONLY noticeable when I'm moving the mouse (moving with keyboard left/right/back/forth is fine). Sometimes it's not noticeable at first, then it will start either a few seconds or a few minutes later. Other times it's noticeable as soon as game starts then goes away and comes back. I've gone for as long as 10 minutes without it happening which led me to think the problem was gone. I play mostly quake3 but it's noticeable in other games too. I'm VERY experienced with PCs so I've tried EVERYTHING... I've switched USB ports, I've tried PS/[email protected], I changed USB [email protected],500,1000, I formatted/reinstalled windows, did all windows updates. I installed windows on a different HD and tried game on a bare windows with only vid driver installed. I tried 4 different mice. Tried different keyboards. I bought a USB 2.0 card. I changed vid drivers, sound drivers, mobo drivers. I flashed BIOS. I changed vid card, sound card. I changed RAM. I went through 3 motherboards, from different companies/models. I tried changing settings in windows, disabling DirectX acceleration, disabling services, disabling windows themes/animation and all that stuff, closing all processes that aren't needed. It's hard to think of everything, I've probably left half of it out, but I've really done it all. The only thing I haven't done is change the CPU and that's because it's over a month since I bought it, and newegg won't replace it. Is it possible that it could be the CPU? The computer runs fine otherwise. I mean in benchmarks and timedemos it performs exactly how it should. what else could be a possible cause? Any ideas? I appreciate any response. 

Specs:
Gigabyte GA-965P-S3
Intel Core2Duo E6400
G-SKILL 2gb DDR2-800 (pc2-6400) 5-5-5-15
NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT
Creative X-Fi Platinum
Logitech MX518
Seagate 250gb SATA hd
NEC MD3520A DVD-RW


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## Tiber Septim (Feb 9, 2006)

Hi marcus, welcome to TSF!

You seem pretty determined to fix this so i'll see what i can do.
After reading though all the things you have tried, my brain fried (it doesn't work so well this time in the morning anyway), so forgive me if you have tried anything i suggest.

What precisely is happening? Do you see the cursor 'flickering' whilst in-game or is it just sluggish when you move the mouse?

Updating the Logitech Setpoint drivers? Have you tried that at all?
Also, what Graphics drivers are you currently running?

You've probably done them already, but have a run through the 'Common Game Issues' link in my signature.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

Tiber Septim said:


> Hi marcus, welcome to TSF!
> 
> You seem pretty determined to fix this so i'll see what i can do.
> After reading though all the things you have tried, my brain fried (it doesn't work so well this time in the morning anyway), so forgive me if you have tried anything i suggest.
> ...


thanks for the quick reply and warm welcome. I don't see flickering or sluggish delay, but picture the game running at a very low framerate ONLY when you move mouse. it's "choppyness". that's the best way I can describe it. it's noticeable in fps games so there is no cursor, the whole screen is choppy. I've tried logitech setpoint drivers/windows/ms drivers. did all the stuff in 'the common game issues' times 100 lol :smile:


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

one important thing you didnt list is your power supply.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> one important thing you didnt list is your power supply.


psu is a zumax zu-650w:
http://www.aicmicro.com/productdetail.asp?id=29523


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

also: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817101013


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

take a look at the "power supply selection" link in my sig.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> take a look at the "power supply selection" link in my sig.


dunno, i don't think it's psu, like i said everything else is pretty much fine... why would psu cause mouse choppy? :/


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## Tiber Septim (Feb 9, 2006)

Which FPS games is it happening in and what settings are you running them at?
I get a similar problem when i enter a new area in Oblivion, but it only happens for a few seconds while the cell loads, then it smoothes out.
Just trying to pin-point what the problem could be...



> dunno, i don't think it's psu, like i said everything else is pretty much fine... why would psu cause mouse choppy? :/


I agree that the PSU shouldn't be affecting the gameplay when the mouse is moved but i also agree that it isn't doing your computer any good, as the link pharoah showed you states, a bad quality PSU can damage your components.
It might not be today, or tomorrow but there is a very good chance of it happening.
You wouldn't want a nice system like that to get fried :grin: .


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

ok, i read some of that psu article and checked the psu calculator. total watts shown for my system was well under the psu i have. as for amperage. i have dual +12v rails at 20a, +5v at 54a and +3.3v at 30a. there's also a turbo switch on my psu, i tried turning that on but it didn't make a difference. just made the fans noisy...

i should also add that one of the mobos i tried had a 4+4 pin (8pin EPS 12v) connector as well as the 20+4 pin (ATX/BTX/EPS), and a large 4 pin connector (for peripherals) which was supposed to give stability to the video card, according to the mobo manual. this mobo only has a 4 pin and 20+4.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

Tiber Septim said:


> Which FPS games is it happening in and what settings are you running them at?
> I get a similar problem when i enter a new area in Oblivion, but it only happens for a few seconds while the cell loads, then it smoothes out.
> Just trying to pin-point what the problem could be...


I play mostly quake3, but i noticed it in q4 too. it's not just when i enter a new area or anything. I also think it might be happening in windows but it's hard to tell because moving the mouse just moves the cursor, not the whole screen.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

try this http://www.techsupportforum.com/art...es/122161-how-use-install-sensorsviewpro.html check your temps,and voltages.under both idle,and load.

editne more thing i know that board is an overclockable board.are you overclocking any,if so have you done any stability testing.another thing i know the northbridge on those do get fairly hot when oc'd.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

temps are fine, although at first it showed my cpu at 254c? LOL. well i changed the sensor and it's at 35 now.. 52 in core temp. as for voltages, +12v is only showing 0.77? +5v is 4.8, +3.3v is at 3.36. in my mobos program (gigabyte's ETC) it shows +12v at 12.040


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> try this http://www.techsupportforum.com/art...es/122161-how-use-install-sensorsviewpro.html check your temps,and voltages.under both idle,and load.
> 
> editne more thing i know that board is an overclockable board.are you overclocking any,if so have you done any stability testing.another thing i know the northbridge on those do get fairly hot when oc'd.


i overclocked for a while, got myself a zalman cnps9500 and it kept cpu temp pretty low so i figured what the hey. but... 3 mobos now, i've tried oc'd and non oc'd. did a few cpu tests.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

is your gskill ram the ones rated for 1.8 to 2.0 volts< if so what is your memory voltage set at.if they are set at the lower end of the scale 1.8.try uping them to 1.9 middle of the road so to speak.see if that has any affect,and post back.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> is your gskill ram the ones rated for 1.8 to 2.0 volts< if so what is your memory voltage set at.if they are set at the lower end of the scale 1.8.try uping them to 1.9 middle of the road so to speak.see if that has any affect,and post back.


yeah it's the 1.8-2.0 one. i've tried 1.8, 1.9, 2.0. i also tried different ram altogether.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

what are your memory timings set at,are they at the stock settings.from what ive read here and there the p965 chipset's are finicky about memory settings.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> what are your memory timings set at,are they at the stock settings.from what ive read here and there the p965 chipset's are finicky about memory settings.


in bios i got them set at 5-5-5-15 which is what it's supposed to be. if i let it choose it sets to something like 5-6-6-17, either way it was the same


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

5-5-5-15 are the correct settings.im still a bit worried over the power supply actually,it has the power specs,however it is a cheaper unit.does any of your friends have a more expensive psu you could borrow.to see if that may be the problem.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

here is the summary remarks from a review of this power supply.

Despite the outcome of this review, I wouldn't say that this power supply is horrible. That's rather harsh. But with it's crossload tendency, it's tendency for it's voltages to drop under high temps and the drastic drop the 12V rails exhibited when loaded to it's maximum, I would easily consider several 500W units on the market over this... especially at the price this goes for.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> 5-5-5-15 are the correct settings.im still a bit worried over the power supply actually,it has the power specs,however it is a cheaper unit.does any of your friends have a more expensive psu you could borrow.to see if that may be the problem.


this is the only psu i can get a hold of right now. :/ i'd have to buy a new one, and give it back to test.. which is basically what i've been doing with everything else lol. pain in the *** tho cuz i have to pay for shipping and newegg has a restocking fee.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

i agree with the pain in the backside comment :laugh: however always remember a quality power supply from the start can save those backside pains later.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

well i guess i'll order a new psu and try it out. don't have many other choices. what would you recommend? if the problem still exists, it would almost definitely be cpu right? is there a chance having a faulty psu could have damaged the cpu at all or would it have fried it? i should have educated myself more about psus, that was the one area i didn't know much about. thanks a bunch for your help and patience.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

i use an antec power supply myself here take a  look


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

how's this baby look?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341001


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

that ocz game extreme psu is a very good one.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> that ocz game extreme psu is a very good one.


i ordered it


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

cool that will be alot better power supply than what you have now without doubt.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

yeah. but i hope it'll fix the prob lol


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

agreed i hope it does to.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

new psu, no change.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

it didnt fix it eh.well next lets start testing out your hardware lets start with a  memtest


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

already did that... no errors

sorry for bleak responses.. i'm just really disappointed at this point. less than a month after i built this pc, i saw a much better system for only a couple hundred more than i spent, and i've already spent more than that one, not to mention time and energy trying to solve this... i just feel like giving up. everyone asks me why i don't have a career in computers being i'm so good with them... well this is why.

sigh


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

well the next thing to try is test the cpu.try  prime95


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

list what monitor you have ,and its specs as well.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

ok i have done several hours of research on mouse lag causes.so here is a list of possibilities and fixes.

1:be sure the mouse sensitivity settings for the logitec software,and the control panel mouse settings match.

2:some people have had this problem with a dell 24" monitor fix use another monitor.

3ne person went into the device manager,and uninstalled there usb root hub.restarted,and let windows reinstall it. 

4:when useing a sound card be sure the onboard sound is disabled in the bios.

5:uncheck this box in the mouse settings in the control panel pic below

6:uninstall the sound blaster,and try the onboard sound.try this last i was up very late,and was nearly asleep.they said something about a clash between the soundblaster drivers,and the nvidia drivers.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

first i want to say thank you for taking time to help me figure this out, i appreciate it. 

i ran memtest+ a few weeks ago and it showed no errors. i did cpu stability test 5.0 by Jouni Vuorio for like 4 hours, i think they recommend 24 hours though? ;/ haven't tried prime95 yet.



pharoah said:


> ok i have done several hours of research on mouse lag causes.so here is a list of possibilities and fixes.
> 
> 1:be sure the mouse sensitivity settings for the logitec software,and the control panel mouse settings match.
> 
> ...


i've tried with and without logi drviers installed, have a viewsonic 19" monitor; it can't be monitor because it's only in game when moving mouse, there is no flicker, and refresh rate is 120. uninstalled usb hubs and all that, removed soundcard altogether (it happens without any sound), pointer precision is always disabled anyway.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

the only other thing i seen that i didnt put on the list.it was early,and it slipped my mind till now.in the nvidia settings try setting the max frames to render ahead to 1.

edit: on your refresh rate try backing that down slowly see if that makes any difference.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> the only other thing i seen that i didnt put on the list.it was early,and it slipped my mind till now.in the nvidia settings try setting the max frames to render ahead to 1.
> 
> edit: on your refresh rate try backing that down slowly see if that makes any difference.


no change on that.. maybe because that's only for d3d games, lowering refresh rate wouldn't help ;o


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

im going to see if someone from the hardware team will take a look at this thread. i am honestly running out of ideas here.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> im going to see if someone from the hardware team will take a look at this thread. i am honestly running out of ideas here.


thanks, need all the help i can get :O

a few times i was actually tempted to say that the choppy mouse is caused by cpu usage. however i don't notice it when running cpu tests which use up 100% cpu, and quake3 for example only uses 50 (runs on either core). i also tried to set the affinity for the program to either core. there is supposedly also a cvar in the game to enable dualcore (r_smp 1) this actually made my fps fluctutate big time in timedemo (benchmark)


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## 95five-0 (Dec 7, 2004)

Well I read through this entire tread and the one thing I noticed you did not change out, and correct me if I am wrong, was the hard drive. If the seek time is messed up on the drive itself this could cause problems all over. Goto www.pcpitstop.com and run the full test. It will test your memory, cpu, connection, and hard drive. Let us know what you find out.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

95five-0 said:


> Well I read through this entire tread and the one thing I noticed you did not change out, and correct me if I am wrong, was the hard drive. If the seek time is messed up on the drive itself this could cause problems all over. Goto www.pcpitstop.com and run the full test. It will test your memory, cpu, connection, and hard drive. Let us know what you find out.


pcpitstop was actually one of things i've done. i did try a different drive though. i have a 250gb sata and 80gb ide. i intsalled windows on the ide drive with minimal drivers and updates and had the same prob.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

doing a bit more research i found this as another possible solution.


Downticking the hardware acceleration to disable hardware cursors seems to correct the problem or at least make it a lot less noticable.

edit:also are you running dvi port to your monitor.is the card ,and monitor both single,or dual link dvi.<if so be sure those match.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> doing a bit more research i found this as another possible solution.
> 
> 
> Downticking the hardware acceleration to disable hardware cursors seems to correct the problem or at least make it a lot less noticable.
> ...


tried downticking hardware accel as low as it would go while still allowing games to load which was like 3rd notch.

card is dual dvi, came with a converter for the monitor.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

if the game itself has settings for mouse sensitivity have you changed that.

edit: which sata port are you useing for your hard drive one of the purple,or yellow ones.


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## 95five-0 (Dec 7, 2004)

Do you have the sata and ide drivers installed at the same time?


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

95five-0 said:


> Do you have the sata and ide drivers installed at the same time?


right now, yes, but i've had them seperate. and i'm using the yellow cable/port for sata... i don't notice hd usage when the problem is occuring


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

are you using a ps2 or usb mouse ? from the thread i read that its only occuring in games ? like q3 and q4 ?


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

Fr4665 said:


> are you using a ps2 or usb mouse ? from the thread i read that its only occuring in games ? like q3 and q4 ?


it's most noticeable in fps games because the whole screen moves as opposed to windows where it's just a cursor. i haven't been able to see anything in windows other than when i was installing something from a cd or windowsupdate. i don't know if it's related.

it's a usb mouse, but i have a ps/2 converter, so i've tried it on ps/2 at 200hz.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

vsync seems to get rid of it almost completely.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

sorry i meant ENABLING vsync... after all this time and work, haha. this is unbelievable. i NEVER tried enabling vsync because i've always known it to make the mouse feel lagged like delayed. it still does this but it completely gets rid of the choppyness. why would having it disabled cause choppyness? i've messed around with other driver settings, tried different drivers, blah blah blah, and there was no change. vsync seems to be the key. guess my cpu and everything is fine. now if i can only figure out why it's happening when it's disabled. i mean it's either choppy mouse or laggy mouse. i don't want either ;/


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## Tiber Septim (Feb 9, 2006)

marcus2k7 said:


> now if i can only figure out why it's happening when it's disabled. i mean it's either choppy mouse or laggy mouse. i don't want either ;/


I doubt it's either. It is more likely something to do with your monitor, or at least, it's refresh rate.
By turning Vsync Off, you are basically letting your GPU spew out the frames, and your Monitor just can't keep up, so it only has time to display 'half frames' etc. Hence the choppyness.

Good job though, i never would have thought of Vsync  .


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## Fr4665 (Nov 18, 2004)

maybe the video card driver could be another factor ?


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

Tiber Septim said:


> I doubt it's either. It is more likely something to do with your monitor, or at least, it's refresh rate.
> By turning Vsync Off, you are basically letting your GPU spew out the frames, and your Monitor just can't keep up, so it only has time to display 'half frames' etc. Hence the choppyness.
> 
> Good job though, i never would have thought of Vsync  .


;/ it can't be monitor. this only happens when i move mouse... monitor refresh rate isn't dropping or anything. my monitor is a brand new viewsonic g90fb 19" crt. without vsync on my fps is at 125 (maxfps at 120, q3 thinks maxfps 120 = 125), but with vsync on it's at 120 since refresh is 120hz.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

Fr4665 said:


> maybe the video card driver could be another factor ?


well it seems like that but i've tried a few, from the oldest driver that supports my card, all the way to the newest


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## Indoril Nerevar (Jan 7, 2006)

Hi marcus,

I've read your thread fairly thoroughly, but it's long and detailed, so forgive me if I've missed something.

I know you've tried multiple sets of drivers, but uninstall whatever version you have now and install the 84.21's. They're the most stable version available, and even if they don't solve the problem, they'll help us narrow it down a bit.

This sounds like a software issue rather than a hardware issue, so I'm thinking it's something to do with drivers or DirectX, etc. Problem is, you've tried pretty much everything in the book.

Have you updated the game with the latest patch? Are you using any extra hardware components, such as a KVM switch or something? Have you made sure the game has been cleared through the Windows Firewall (this is usually only an issue when starting a multiplayer game for the first time - the Firewall pops up a message box asking you to allow it to connect to other computers. The message box can intermittently take the focus away from the game, causing apparent lag or glitchiness)?


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

Indoril Nerevar said:


> Hi marcus,
> 
> I've read your thread fairly thoroughly, but it's long and detailed, so forgive me if I've missed something.
> 
> ...



hey indoril,

game is updated to latest, no extra hardware, cleared on windows firewall, happens offline too. i just downloaded the 84.21's, haven't tried those. i'll post back with results.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

84.21's made zero difference. ;/ i think it actually made the lag somewhat worse, but not sure.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

in your video controls check the box that says hide settings this monitor cant display,and see what options it gives you.also look at the included pic it has a pdf guide for your monitor.look at the circled text specifically.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

desktop res at 1280x1024x75hz. game res at 800x600x120hz. nothing to do with monitor. why would monitor refresh rate suddenly drop when moving mouse? it has to be something else.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

Tiber Septim said:


> I doubt it's either. It is more likely something to do with your monitor, or at least, it's refresh rate.
> By turning Vsync Off, you are basically letting your GPU spew out the frames, and your Monitor just can't keep up, so it only has time to display 'half frames' etc. Hence the choppyness.
> 
> Good job though, i never would have thought of Vsync  .


i think tiber sumed it up decently in a previous post.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

so you're saying i'm getting mouse lag because my monitor can't keep up with 125 fps but it can keep up with 120 fps, even though it also happens on 140, 144, 150hz refresh... lol


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

from that pdf manual i looked at for your monitor.it said the refresh rate was 77hz.if you are exceeding your max refresh rate it could be causeing the problem.in the game try a refresh rate of 77hz max,and see if it has any affect.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

pharoah said:


> from that pdf manual i looked at for your monitor.it said the refresh rate was 77hz.if you are exceeding your max refresh rate it could be causeing the problem.in the game try a refresh rate of 77hz max,and see if it has any affect.


that is for ultra high res.. like 1600x1200 i'm running at 800x600. the max refresh for 8x6 is 150. 

if i were to exceed maximum refresh rate the monitor would go blank. either way... what does any of it have to do with mouse lag? the fact is.. it only happens when i move mouse. therefore it can't possibly have anything to do with monitor.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

lets assume you are correct.ok that being said please humor me,and try a lower refresh rate.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 100 .. all same. i had an idea.. picked up powerstrip and set refresh to 125 since game fps is 125... figured i could emulate vsync or something. didn't work well though. there was a LOT of tearing.


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## pharoah (Aug 28, 2006)

i dont know why i didnt think about this earlier,but someone else on this forum recently had a similar problem.his fix "i know this sounds backward" was he cranked his resolution,and game detail up.


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## marcus2k7 (Feb 3, 2007)

tried that too


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## ger0nim0 (Feb 20, 2008)

Hello,

This post may be a bit old, but i just found it looking to solve a similar problem.

im experiencing the same "choppiness" when moving the mouse only in warcraft

i readed carefully the whole thread and none of the solutions mentioned here worked for me including the vsync ON

i just want to mention few of my pC specs
AMD 64 4800+
2gb ram
asus 8800 gtx 768mb
antec 1000w psu
apple cinemadisplay 23"
razer copperhead & tarrantula (mouse + keyboard USB)
SATA + IDE drives most of them Seagate


also i noticed high cpu usage for csrss.exe process when moving the mouse (up to 40% ) and up to 60% in task manager/ performance


all of those started after a computer crash while playing WoW


Thank you very much for your time and help


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## ger0nim0 (Feb 20, 2008)

after a lot of research i found out that Bullguard was the one causing all this mess. i've contacted their service support and they were aware of the issue telling me just to disable Spamfilter till they found a fix for csrss high cpu usage when moving the mouse ... im seriously thinking to disable their whole service since is not my first bullguard problem encountered
hope this will help some of you


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## spirit_fy (May 17, 2009)

i have/had same problem... most visible in Quake 3 engine games Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Quake 3, Quake Live, W: Enemy Territory... I ll try Call of Duty 1 ... but I think I solved this problem by increasing mouserate to 500Hz

specs:
PS2 keyboard SAMSUBG
USB mouse Logitech MX518 (older version with max 1600dpi)
Intel Q6600
Zotac 8800GTS 512
OCZ OCZ2T800C42G 2GB RAM
FORTRON 400W
GA-P45-U3DP
2x western digital SATA HDD


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