# Hot CPU, can I ADD front Fans to Help



## axelrose (Mar 16, 2007)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811154013
APEX TU150 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ATX 12V 400W with 20+4 pin Intel/AMD listed Power Supply

It came with only ONE fan in the rear just below the outlet fan for the PSU.

The temps run
CPU 41-44C
Case 40-41C
HDD 40-46C [mainly 46C]

I was wondering if adding one or TWO fans in the Lower Front would help with any or all of these temps?
As you can see from the link, the bottom front is covered and doesn't seem like a lot of air flow would occur even if I placed one or two fans there.

What would you do if you were in my shoes?

thanks


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

i dont really see a place where you can add a fan. another choice could be getting a new CPU cooler. what processor/socket do you have?


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## axelrose (Mar 16, 2007)

forcifer said:


> i dont really see a place where you can add a fan. another choice could be getting a new CPU cooler. what processor/socket do you have?


CPU AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice S939 Step DH-E6
Stock HSF from AMD.


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118019 is probably the best one you could get. price range though?


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## axelrose (Mar 16, 2007)

forcifer said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118019 is probably the best one you could get. price range though?


I've seen HSF's like this and cannot for the Life of me figure out how you would connect that to the CPU?

It doesn't seem to have those clasps like my original HSF has?
Did I miss something?
Also, what kind of temp drops could I expect? For $57 I'd expect a lot.

thanks


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

it does connect. it doesnt look like it, but it will. i got a drop of 10c for me. others have had as much as 15. it is an amazing cooler


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

Hi,

What are the other specs of your computer. Then, just to compare temps, download and run the SensorvewPro program under my signature. Then, after you check it, play a game or do something stressful with the computer and see how high it goes. Post all the results back here.

Other considerations:

>Some CPU models run hotter than others, and that is why we need your specs.

>Make sure your heatsink fan is blowing down on the CPU

>Did you use Artic Silver or the factory pad between the CPU/Heatsink?

>If you can get a fan in front of the case, it will usually pull some air from the case enclosure, so it just might help.

>Be sure your ribbon cables are out of the way of the air flow. 

>Round cables work better for cooling than the flat ribbon cables (and make the case neater also.

Post back with information so we know if your CPU is actually too hot or if that is a charactistic of this CPU.


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## axelrose (Mar 16, 2007)

Tumbleweed36 said:


> Hi,
> 
> What are the other specs of your computer. Then, just to compare temps, download and run the SensorvewPro program under my signature. Then, after you check it, play a game or do something stressful with the computer and see how high it goes. Post all the results back here.
> .


The computer is..
Windows XP Home Edition [SP2] 5.1.2600
Motherboard= Asus A8S-X
BIOS DATE: 08/26/05 VER: 08.00.10
Chipset SiS 756, AMD Hammer

CPU AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice S939 Step DH-E6
40 pounder! - Monitor Proview 998/998A/998N(1239224727)
Video Card NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GS(256 MB) NV41GS 
RAM 1024 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM) Corsair VS1GB400C3
DRIVE Maxtor 6L080P0
DVD DRIVE NEC DVD_RW ND-3550A

At an idle the cpu is around 41-41C, under heavy super duty stress it can go to 55-59C. This can be running starcraft game or rar'ing a VERY large file.

I hope this was enough info...
thanks


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

Hi,

Although warmer than I would like that chip, it is not really too hot or hot enough to do damage to it. This is called IMHO, high normal. Also, did you use artic silver to put it together, or did you use the factory thermal pad?


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## axelrose (Mar 16, 2007)

Tumbleweed36 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Although warmer than I would like that chip, it is not really too hot or hot enough to do damage to it. This is called IMHO, high normal. Also, did you use artic silver to put it together, or did you use the factory thermal pad?


I started with the thermal pad then went to Arctic Silver, maybe I used too much of it but it didn't drop the temp but maybe 0.5C-1C at best.

I was very careful to use the amount like a lot of sites say [rice grain size], very dead center..

I also read from AMD's site that the "die temp" for this CPU is 65C, if that is true then I have, at times, come to within 1 Degree of that temp.
Don't know what's going on.
thanks


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

Hi,

I would redo the artic silver again and put a fan someplace in the front of that case, because I think that would help you. Then make sure (those round cables really help) that you have good airflow front to back in that case. If you use the ribbon cables (Grr), then use cable ties to keep them away from the cpu area so you get good air flow.

Another note: Make sure that back fan is pulling warm air OUT of the case and not pulling it in. Some times they blow the wrong way, so check that one.

Take the side of the case off and blow a fan directly on the heatsink/CPU area and see what that does for temps.


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## axelrose (Mar 16, 2007)

Tumbleweed36 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would redo the artic silver again and put a fan someplace in the front of that case, because I think that would help you. Then make sure (those round cables really help) that you have good airflow front to back in that case. If you use the ribbon cables (Grr), then use cable ties to keep them away from the cpu area so you get good air flow.
> 
> ...


I have a link to the case in my original post APEX TU150 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower, as you can see from the pics, it has a side-duct. That duct has some really defined screw holes in it which could be used for another 80mm fan to blow in or out? Also, that side-duct is off-center for my cpu. I don't know how or why they built the case that way but suspect it's because my motherboard doesn't place the cpu in the usuall place.

Also:As you can see from the pics of the case, placing a fan in the front might be useless since the cover over the front of the case is very solid with few place for air to be sucked inward.

So, would you simply put a side fan in place of that duct and make it blow In or Suck out air?

Thanks again


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

axelrose said:


> I have a link to the case in my original post APEX TU150 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower, as you can see from the pics, it has a side-duct. That duct has some really defined screw holes in it which could be used for another 80mm fan to blow in or out?
> 
> Side fans should most of the time pull cool air IN from the outside of the case.
> 
> ...


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## axelrose (Mar 16, 2007)

It might be a couple of days before I can install that fan. If you can keep this thread in mind I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks for your help btw.


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

Hi,

Post back when you get it done and we will just leave this thread until we hear from you. Have a great weekend.


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## Chode (Sep 8, 2006)

I'm going to give you the response that has gotten me pounded repeatedly on many a forum, but here goes. Per AMD's system builder guidelines, intake fans have not been shown to appreciably improve system cooling, and in worst case scenarios, may make it worse.

You can check AMD's site for numerous white papers on this topic, and I'm just too lazy to recap them all here. Look, cooling is a matter of removing heat. You can suck in all the cool air you want, but you can only cool the system by removing heat. So if you have intake fans that deliver 40 CFM (cubic feet per minute) and your case can only exhaust 30 CFM (by any combination of vents or fans), then only 30 CFM of hot air is leaving. The rest just creates eddies, hot spots, and back pressure in the case. Ask any old drag racer about back pressure. See also "muffler restriction".


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

Chode said:


> I'm going to give you the response that has gotten me pounded repeatedly on many a forum, but here goes. Per AMD's system builder guidelines, intake fans have not been shown to appreciably improve system cooling, and in worst case scenarios, may make it worse.


Hi,

Well, I won't pound you for your thoughts, but I must add that most techs who build and service computers on a regular basis and the majority of case manufacturers will all call you "dead wrong" on that issue. I guess most techs (if your theory is correct) just put them in their personal computers for the looks????

I wonder why a vast majority of case manufacturers either put in a front case fan or leave a place (holes/baffle/ect) for the end user to put one in. Must be the looks they are shooting for, or do you think maybe they have studied the air flow dynamics enough to know what they are doing? Gee, my best guess is that they employ actual engineers to study airflow and build those cases. 

Therefore, we don't agree on that one at all. My years of experience owning and operating a computer shop has verified the wisdom of putting in a front fan if you need more cooling to facilitate a smooth air flow from front to back. 

Many times in my place of business at Marlin Computer's, we can see a noticeable drop in temps (yep, try it and test a unit that is overly warm) when we add a case fan to the front of the case. I have seen this and tested it time and time again and the majority of times, this makes a noticeable difference in the temps of the unit. Talk all you want about the theories, but test it a few times and you might change your mind. 

That is my very strong position on that issue and I guess either your advice is not accurate or the case manufacturers and their engineers basically don't know what they are doing.

Chode, my friend, we will just disagee on this issue and I wish for you a great weekend.


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## Ralck (Dec 10, 2004)

The main reason why intake fans may not help enough is if you have too much air intake. If you have more intake than outtake, yes it can actually make it worse (less than 1 atm pressure in your case is optimal, and more air in than out means greater than 1 atm pressure).
However, as Tumbleweed said, these fans aren't just for looks. Intake fans help create a complete flow of air in the case to help ensure there are no hot spots and helps to make sure the air coming into the case is actually cool (hence the common location of front bottom).
I would never get rid of my front intake fan (even if AMD told me to), as it not only blows air directly over my harddrives, but also ensures my entire system is properly cooled. I'll have to check out these white papers, but my suspicion is that they suggest less intake than outtake, rather than no intake at all.

Now that I've sufficiently helped to hijack this thread...
I have the Zalman 7700 cooler. The 9700 is a lot better than my, older, model. I believe you should see some good improvements with this cooler (although, as Tumble said, it's not really necessary). For example, my Zalman keeps my CPU around 31-34 idle (and about 36-40 load) and I have an X2, which runs hotter than your CPU to begin with.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

If you add a front intake fan then you'll want to also add another exhaust fan either on the top, the back, or the side. The area just below the PSU ought to have locations prepped for 80mm fans. My case has just one intake fan that's front-mounted. If my PC is getting warm I'll crack the window near my computer desk and let the cool outside air flow through my rig. That brings it back to idle temps even under load.


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