# Info/suggestions?



## CalypsoArt (Jun 23, 2010)

I did my last build in 2012. I studied up and built a somewhat small footprint machine for my work which is predominately CAD. AutoCad, Rhino, Sketchup etc. (I have made occasional upgrades--SSD, memory, WIN 10) However, the machine is showing its age. I think a new build is close at hand. However, I have not kept up on tech improvements. A cursory check shows technology has moved on, and there a many options I'm unfamiliar with. I'm hoping someone can point me to a good research source with simple descriptions of the current processors/chipsets, memory, etc., as a place to start.

e.g. LGA-2011v3 vs LGA-1151 vs LGA-1150 vs AMD etc. Is there any site that might have graphic representation? Same for Memory. I intend to use the same case/power SSD etc., so mATX is what I need. I'm thinking I want to change the Mobo, processor and memory. Below are the specs of the machine at present. 

Windows 10 (Dual boot with Win 7 pro 64)
Sugo Series SG01-F case.
ASUS Rampage Gene III
SilverStone Strider Plus Modular SST-ST75F-P 750W
Intel i7 930 (First gen)
Kingston HyperX 12GB Kit (3x4GB Modules) 1600MHz DDR3 DIMM
ATI FirePro V5900
Crucial SSD 250gb Drive
WD 1TB data drive.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

The system is pretty old now with just a first generation i7 CPU. My recommendation to you is to check out our TSF Recommended Builds: http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f255/tsf-hardware-teams-recommended-builds-2017-a-668661.html

It's a great starting place in picking out new parts for a system. For somebody who's doing a lot of processor intensive work, the $1300 Intel Build would work for you.


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## VividProfessional (Apr 29, 2009)

does your current machine do the job its needed too? or, as I do frequently, looking for new gadgets?


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## CalypsoArt (Jun 23, 2010)

Dave Cummings said:


> does your current machine do the job its needed too? or, as I do frequently, looking for new gadgets?


Probably a bit of both. I have lags on the machine that I did not have when first built and running 2012 software. A complete wipe and new installs would probably help. But, if I'm going to do that, I might as well update everything.


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## CalypsoArt (Jun 23, 2010)

Masterchiefxx17 said:


> The system is pretty old now with just a first generation i7 CPU. My recommendation to you is to check out our TSF Recommended Builds: http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f255/tsf-hardware-teams-recommended-builds-2017-a-668661.html
> 
> It's a great starting place in picking out new parts for a system. For somebody who's doing a lot of processor intensive work, the $1300 Intel Build would work for you.


Thanks for that link. I think it will help. 

I'd still like to understand a little more about the differences between chipsets if anyone knows a site with comparisons.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

> I'd still like to understand a little more about the differences between chipsets if anyone knows a site with comparisons.


What do you want to know about them? There is statistical data here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1151


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

Me I pick my socket based on how popular the motherboards for them are.

1) Browse to NewEgg
2) Do a search of Motherboards (I always pick Intel)
3) Identify which socket has the most number of motherboards made for it.
4) That's my socket. Most common. Part of the herd. Getting what everyone else is getting. Most likely to have support from manufacturers, best support, longest lasting support, most number of CPU options, etc...

I just did this. It was LGA 1151.

https://www.newegg.com/Intel-Motherboards/SubCategory/ID-280


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

> Me I pick my socket based on how popular the motherboards for them are.


Well, that is always going to be for the latest Intel socket.


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## storm5510 (Mar 26, 2009)

As a general rule, for me, I start with the CPU and go outwards from there. I select a board based on the CPU, and then the RAM based on what the board supports. Make sure your power supply is large enough (wattage) to handle any video adapters you many want to use. Think ahead to what you may use down the road. I tend to go beyond what I need as a cushion for the future.

:smile:



Walter Mitty said:


> I just did this. It was LGA 1151.


In the process now. LGA-1151 with i7.


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

storm5510 said:


> As a general rule, for me, I start with the CPU and go outwards from there. I select a board based on the CPU, and then the RAM based on what the board supports. Make sure your power supply is large enough (wattage) to handle any video adapters you many want to use. Think ahead to what you may use down the road. I tend to go beyond what I need as a cushion for the future.
> 
> :smile:
> 
> ...


So I do this just now. Find one of the cheapest i7 CPUs sold by NewEgg. It's not enough to just say "CPU", you need to pick some 2nd characteristic.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAAEE5811779

It's only $300. But it's socket LGA 1366. NewEgg only sells 4 motherboards for that particular socket.


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## storm5510 (Mar 26, 2009)

Walter Mitty said:


> So I do this just now. Find one of the cheapest i7 CPUs sold by NewEgg. It's not enough to just say "CPU", you need to pick some 2nd characteristic...


i7-7700, and I have it here in my desk. I opted out of the 'K' model. I never planned to overclock. I wanted the high clock rate though. This one bases at 3.6 GHz and will run up to 4.2 GHz. If the only way to have gotten that was with the K model, then I would have went that route.

I'm not a gamer. This is a purpose-driven build to do hard number crunching.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

In this case using some of the strategy you may have a problem. 1151 is the most used socket and availability but if you go with the newest Cpus, SkyLake and KabyLake they only work with Windows 10 which is fine but narrows things and there is a smaller number of boards right now available for them as well. Now if the trend continues then of course there will be more boards eventually than any other socket but do we know 1151 which is "a little long in the tooth" remains the most used?
Well I just looked and it appears that there are nearly 1,000 boards in the Intel 200 series available and about half that for the 100 series so at the moment the strategy of buying generation 6 and 7 definitely works. Right now Newegg has the i7 6700K and 7700K at the same price $339 so that appears to be the way to go.


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## storm5510 (Mar 26, 2009)

Rich-M said:


> In this case using some of the strategy you may have a problem. 1151 is the most used socket and availability but if you go with the newest Cpus, SkyLake and KabyLake they only work with Windows 10 which is fine but narrows things and there is a smaller number of boards right now available for them as well. Now if the trend continues then of course there will be more boards eventually than any other socket but do we know 1151 which is "a little long in the tooth" remains the most used?
> Well I just looked and it appears that there are nearly 1,000 boards in the Intel 200 series available and about half that for the 100 series so at the moment the strategy of buying generation 6 and 7 definitely works. Right now Newegg has the i7 6700K and 7700K at the same price $339 so that appears to be the way to go.


There are a lot of 1151 boards out there to choose from. Actually too many. Within each brand, there are those with very subtle differences. This makes it hard to choose one. The one I chose is a B250M. I looked at Z270 for a while. I didn't see the need because I would probably never run it in an over-clock state.

I've never done business with Newegg, but I use them as a reference, along with CDW and TigerDirect. Because of their massive volume, I get everything from Amazon. Their offerings are usually around 10% less than what others are. I got the 7700 for $299. Newegg is $305. TigerDirect is $344. CDW is $352.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I split my purchases between a wholesaler and Newegg because I can predict exact delivery and it never waivers whereas prices well Newegg is always within the ballpark but there are some things I don't purchase at Newegg mainly being computer cases and monitors because they ship in mfgr boxes which often times aren't heavy duty enough to prevent damage. Since Prime Amazon is getting better with delivery but again it depends where they are shipping the item from, something you can never find out with them.

Again it is not there aren't alot of 1151 boards, there are, its that there is such a large expanse and within it there are so many boards that will only work with certain cpus that can become challenging especially when it is so damn hard to tell what bios is on a given shipped board.


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## storm5510 (Mar 26, 2009)

Rich-M said:


> ...Since Prime Amazon is getting better with delivery but again it depends where they are shipping the item from, something you can never find out with them...


I'm an Amazon Prime member. They've never failed at getting anything to me in two days. The exception is when a Sunday falls in that window.

You mentioned BIOS. Yes, it is hard to determine. The HP workstation I am running at the moment has a BIOS created by HP. No surprise there. The board I have ordered, I have no clue. I download the user manual just to read ahead. It's very detailed with many settings. Despite the screen-shots, there is no indication of who created it.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Typically boards shipped have the oldest bios and of course the newer the cpu the newer bios may be needed and without other cpus laying around you are dead in the water when that happens.

Lately I have been getting Sunday deliveries by the Post Office with Prime but some things still take more than 2 days and as I said try to find out where they are shipping from and it is nearly impossible.


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## storm5510 (Mar 26, 2009)

Rich-M said:


> Typically boards shipped have the oldest bios and of course the newer the cpu the newer bios may be needed and without other cpus laying around you are dead in the water when that happens...


The initial release of this board was six months ago. I wouldn't think it would be too far out of date in such a short period of time. Then again, an update may be available.

I have an old computer in the bedroom sitting in a corner. I flashed the BIOS on it to a never version. It didn't work out so well. It wouldn't let me revert back to the original. It was never quite the same again.


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

storm5510 said:


> The initial release of this board was six months ago. I wouldn't think it would be too far out of date in such a short period of time. Then again, an update may be available.
> 
> I have an old computer in the bedroom sitting in a corner. I flashed the BIOS on it to a never version. It didn't work out so well. It wouldn't let me revert back to the original. It was never quite the same again.


Sometimes you can pull the BIOS chip off the board and replace it with a good one. This is the way the people that use modded BIOS recover after something bricks. Best to have the 2nd BIOS on hand before doing the flash.


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## CalypsoArt (Jun 23, 2010)

So I won't be doing the build for several months until my work shuts down for a bit. I cannot be with out my machine while working. At any rate, I have growing interest in the x299 standard. Currently there aren't many x299 mATX boards available. I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready they will. I guess that gives me time to learn more regarding Processors/Memory/Video cards. (though I was originally intending to use the same vcard.) Any info on DDR 4 memory versions?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I always go to the board mfgr site and then choose among the tested ram and tend to choose Crucial or GSkill memory. I have never had a bad stick.


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

Rich-M said:


> I always go to the board mfgr site and then choose among the tested ram and tend to choose *Crucial or GSkill memory*. I have never had a bad stick.


Me too. Last computer there was a sale on Mushkin and they run real nice too. But this is a cheap build. For a real computer, I won't use anything but:

G. Skill memory
EVGA video cards
Gigabyte motherboards


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## storm5510 (Mar 26, 2009)

CalypsoArt said:


> So I won't be doing the build for several months until my work shuts down for a bit. I cannot be with out my machine while working. At any rate, I have growing interest in the x299 standard...


X299. I had to look it up. Skylake X and Kaby Lake X. I also found a reference to Coffee Lake X. On Intel's site, the X series is listed in three areas. i5, i7, and i9. They show a release date in the 3rd quarter of this year. There were a lot of 'to be determined' items in there.

:smile:


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Walter Mitty said:


> Me too. Last computer there was a sale on Mushkin and they run real nice too. But this is a cheap build. For a real computer, I won't use anything but:
> 
> G. Skill memory
> EVGA video cards
> Gigabyte motherboards


I agree vehemently with the first two, and for years Gigabyte was the only board I used but for the last few years they have been having issues with sloppiness with bios changes on boards for sale and other defective issues so I have moved on to MSI boards for anything for me and some of the most reliable boards I have ever owned have been MSI. Asus seems to have recovered from their board issues as well lately so I have used some of them. I have also had very good luck with AS Rock since they started manufacturing their own boards.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

storm5510 said:


> X299. I had to look it up. Skylake X and Kaby Lake X. I also found a reference to Coffee Lake X. On Intel's site, the X series is listed in three areas. i5, i7, and i9. They show a release date in the 3rd quarter of this year. There were a lot of 'to be determined' items in there.
> 
> :smile:


I have learned many many times to never be the first with any technology.
Let others be "the Guinea Pigs" and you will not only save money, you will live longer!


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

Rich-M said:


> I agree vehemently with the first two, and for years Gigabyte was the only board I used but for the last few years they have been having issues with sloppiness with bios changes on boards for sale and other defective issues so I have moved on to MSI boards for anything for me and some of the most reliable boards I have ever owned have been MSI. Asus seems to have recovered from their board issues as well lately so I have used some of them. I have also had very good luck with AS Rock since they started manufacturing their own boards.


Weird I also have the same impression of Asus and that's why I didn't mention them. Good to know they've fixed whatever was broken because I used to like them and then I didn't. I see a lot of MSI boards now on places like Bleeping. It bothers me that Gigabyte quality has fallen.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Yeah me too Gigabyte was my standard go to for so many years...


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## storm5510 (Mar 26, 2009)

Walter Mitty said:


> ....It bothers me that Gigabyte quality has fallen.


Fallen in what way?



Rich-M said:


> I have learned many many times to never be the first with any technology.
> Let others be "the Guinea Pigs" and you will not only save money, you will live longer!


This is why I've not tried a SSD drive. I see this as a still developing technology in it's 'toddler' years.

I asked about Gigabyte because the board I have coming is that manufacture. It is a B250M-DS3H. It's by no means top-of-the-line. I looked at its specs and the materials used. Below is a link.

GA-B250M-DS3H

Part of the setup components I have now. The rest will be here Saturday.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I had to send two of those boards you ordered back did not recognize Westlake cpu and only Westlake and Skylake will work with that board. Could be bios issue but when a board only works with 2 series cpu, how could they send it out without working with one of them and lets face it with these prices few people have older cpus just laying around for such uses as flashing an occasional bios.
Earlier issues were boards being shipped that had compatibility issues with Usb 3.0 and again requiring bios updates few people could do to get them to work properly.
I just had no time for such sloppiness and didn't happen with MSI or Asus at all.


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## storm5510 (Mar 26, 2009)

Rich-M said:


> I had to send two of those boards you ordered back did not recognize Westlake cpu and only Westlake and Skylake will work with that board. Could be bios issue but when a board only works with 2 series cpu, how could they send it out without working with one of them and lets face it with these prices few people have older cpus just laying around for such uses as flashing an occasional bios.
> Earlier issues were boards being shipped that had compatibility issues with Usb 3.0 and again requiring bios updates few people could do to get them to work properly.
> I just had no time for such sloppiness and didn't happen with MSI or Asus at all.


I found a CPU support list for this board. The i7-7700 is shown. There is a revision associated with this model.

Note: I did a search for "Intel Westlake" and did not find anything. Skylake is everywhere.

I guess I'll see what happens when I assemble everything on Saturday.


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## CalypsoArt (Jun 23, 2010)

To add to my confusion, I see AMD has upped their game with their new RYZEN processors and chipsets to suit. However, like the x299 from intel, there are few if any mATX mobos for them at this point. I hope there will be some by Oct-Nov when I expect to do the build. 

The think the last time I built with AMD was the late 90's. (Athalon) There was some problem with the VIA chipset on the MSI board which handicapped the performance. Some Russian programmer wrote a .bat file that fixed it before the manufacturer, and put it on the net. So naive back then. Downloading and installing a bat file off the internet. The performance improvement was instant. Hopefully current mobos are better made. My 2011 Asus has served me well.


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