# [SOLVED] Recommended $1800 System Questions



## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

Alright, so in an effort to learn more about computers and to have a 64-bit OS/gaming machine, I've decided to try and build my own. Also, I have a DAW with a system heavy soundsonline.com VST. They recommend: 
* Intel or AMD Quad Core 2.0GHz, 8GB RAM, 64-bit OS and host 

Alright, trying to stay ~$1500, I've shaved off a couple of items that I already had or don't need. Here is what I have (this is exactly from the $1500 build):

Case: Coolermaster HAF $139.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DQ6 $189.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128343
Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 $324.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115130
Ram: Corsair Dominator 4gb ddr2 1066 $90.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145197
CPU Cooler: Zalman 9700 $49.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118020
Power Supply: Corsair 1000w $259.99 http://jbrlsr.com/?aid=5336121828&b...com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139007
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 285 SC $344.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130446
Hard Drive: Western Digital Raptor 74gb $79.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136033
Hard Drive: Seagate 640gb $69.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148335
DVD Burner: Asus $28.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135186

As you can see, I've shaved off the sound card (have another PCI one). I also left the OS cost off because I am focusing only on the hardware costs, but I plan on running Windows 7 64-bit.

As a beginning question, what is the Western Digital Rapter 74GB internal hard drive for? Is it intended for a backup hard drive?

Also, the motherboard didn't get fantastic reviews (they weren't terrible either, in fact, I noticed a lot of mobos are heavily criticized), I was wondering if there were any other motherboard suggestions that would be compatible with this build--I would be willing to pay more for the motherboard. Despite recommendations for the audio program mentioned above, I'm going to stick with 4GB Ram because 8GB is way outside my price range.

If anything here could be significantly improved, please let me know that too. I am doing some more research on my own, but I definitely want to hear more expert opinions.

Thanks,
Dave


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

If this is meant for gaming then you will see almost no benefit of getting the Q9650 over the E8500. For gaming a dual core is currently (and for the forseeable future) the best bang for the buck choice. 

The Corsair HX850W is sufficient for that build and will work just as well as the 1000W for cheaper.

Drop the Raptor drive, there is literally no real world improvement unless you're reading off massive files/groups of files (1GB+). Also if you plan to use that as your OS drive you'll run out of space in months.

You can do without the Zalman if you don't plan to overclock; otherwise keep it on.

The Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R will work just as well as the DQ6; fewer features, but cheaper, and a lot of the features missing are ones you likely won't use.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Thanks Pheadrus, this is really helpful.

Comparing those motherboards, what about the Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358 vs. the one you recommended? It seems somewhere in-between the two others.

Here is a quick link to the three in question for quick reference, I was just running through Tech Specs:
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DQ6 LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128343
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128359&Tpk=GA-EP45-UD3R


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Quickly, this is the updated list with the same mobo that's still in question:

Case: Coolermaster HAF $139.99

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DQ6 $189.99

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $189.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

Ram: Corsair Dominator 4gb ddr2 1066 $90.00

CPU Cooler: Zalman 9700 $49.99

Power Supply: Corsair Professional CMPSU-850HX 850W Power Supply $169.99
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=211099555&listingid=47127661

Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 285 SC $344.99

Hard Drive: Seagate 640gb $69.99

DVD Burner: Asus $28.99

Current system cost: $1273.92


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

The UD3P is a nice one too, a few more features and maybe a hair more overclocking potential than the UD3R. It also has two PCIe x16 slots so you could go with CrossFire if you wanted to, though I don't normally recommend it.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

To be honest, I have an extremely limited knowledge of overclocking. I'll keep the fan though, just in case I decide to try it out. I'm going to keep the current video card over the Crossfire, and... ah, I just can't decide between the two mother boards.


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

If you go with an Nvidia graphics card then you'll never use the second PCIe x16 slot on the UD3P because the motherboards don't support SLI, only CrossFire. That's the main major difference between the two, the UD3R has one PCIe slot, the UD3P has two. There are other differences, but you're unlikely to notice them.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

You've got me curious about the CrossFire card now, I'm reading more about it... why do you normally not recommend it (and would there be a reason to recommend it in this case)?


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Also, I think I may actually go up to 8GB if possible. I went to Crucial.com and checked out the 8GB Ram available for the GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard:

8GB Kit (4GBx2), 240-pin DIMM, DDR2 PC2-5300 memory module
CT2KIT51264AA667

* Module Size: 8GB Kit (4GBx2)
* Package: 240-pin DIMM
* Feature: DDR2 PC2-5300
* Specs: DDR2 PC2-5300 • CL=5 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-667 • 1.8V • 512Meg x 64 

This runs for $460.00, but I typed in this same information and found this on Amazon, which goes for $195:

Crucial CT2KIT51272AB667 8GB (4GBx2) 240-pin DIMM DDR2 PC2-5300 Memory Module
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-CT2KIT51272AB667-240-pin-PC2-5300-Memory/dp/B000R73FD0

Although they sounds exactly the same, the CT2KIT number is different. Would this RAM be compatible with my motherboard, or am I missing something? This sounds like too wide a gap in price range for the same product (which means they probably aren't the same).


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

CrossFire means running two ATI cards at the same time, the equivalent of SLI. We don't recommend it because: A.) it has a horrible bang:buck ratio, where you pay twice as much for about a 10-40% improvement in performance, B.) with high-end cards it requires an 850W+ PSU (which you have, so you'd be good there), C.) there are various stability issues in many games, as well as microstuttering (google it), D.) it causes a lot more temperature build-up, but since you have a decent case you'd be good there too.

Basically you're paying more than you would for a single high-end card for the same performance increase, plus there are instability issues. 

If you wanted top-of-the-line performance right now I'd recommend the Radeon 5870, currently the best single-GPU card on the market, but pricey.


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

8GB of RAM isn't worth it, you'll never use it all. 4GB DDR2 800 or 1066 (PC2 6400 or 8500) is the best for your money.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

So, I looked at what you suggested

HIS H587F1GDG Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161301

It's only $40 more than the current card, and I can see some gains. For clarification purposes, it says Crossfire Supported Video Card and you said it's a single-GPU card, which means I don't have to use it as a Crossfire card, or have I confused myself? It is a PCI Express 2.0 x16, which is the same as the GTX 285, so I am guessing it would be find to go with the Radeon in the GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R Motherboard?

I looked at microstuttering too... big turn off. Watched it in action on Fallout 3:
YouTube - Fallout 3 Juddering (iFPSclamp=0)


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

I would recommend the Sapphire or PowerColor version of the 5870 rather than HIS; better customer support.

Yup, Crossfire supported means that it just has the option to be used in crossfire if you want to. And it'll work fine in that motherboard; PCIe 2.0 x16 has been the graphics card standard slot for several years now, there are a few PCie 1.0/1.1 x16 cards and AGP 4x/8x and 8x cards and PCI cards, but they're mainly mid to lower end; anything new will be PCIe 2.0 x16.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Hm.. I ran across some deactivated items on Newegg, specifically the Seagate 640 HD and the Asus. I also noticed that the Powercolor brand of the Radeon 5870 had OpenGL and Direct X 11 3D API, as opposed to the Sapphire brand only had Direct X 11 3D API. Does this have something to do with rendering?

I've never bought through newegg before, do they usually restock quickly, or should I go ahead and start looking somewhere else for the deactivated products?


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Virtually all video cards support both DirectX and OpenGL, the only difference is that the newer series of card it is the newer the version of those APIs it will support. The 5870 is the first card to support DirectX 11, along with the 5850, and the future 5870x2 and the GeForce GT300 cards that are coming in December.


If the item is deactivated it means they've stopped selling it. Usually they restock pretty quick if they're going to do it at all, but in those cases it says "out of stock" or "on backorder" rather than deactivated.

Get this for the hard drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319&Tpk=Caviar Black 640GB
And this for the DVD drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289


EDIT: Ah, you meant the 5870 was out of stock. They should be in stock again within a day or so, but they're selling like hotcakes so snap it up fast as soon as they're available before they go out of stock again.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Phaedrus, I owe you big time.  Here is the final build and I'm going to start buying parts today:

Case: Coolermaster HAF $139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard $104.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128359&Tpk=GA-EP45-UD3R

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $184.99
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00116SLZS...e=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B00116SLZS

Ram: Corsair Dominator 4gb ddr2 1066 $94.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145197


CPU Cooler: Zalman 9700 $58.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118020

Power Supply: Corsair Professional CMPSU-850HX 850W Power Supply $169.99
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=211099555&listingid=47127661

Video Card: POWERCOLOR AX5870 1GBD5-MDH Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity $379.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131176

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive – OEM $74.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319&Tpk=Caviar Black 640GB

DVD Burner: LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW SATA CD/DVD Burner - Bulk – OEM $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289

Although, the Windows 7 isn't going to be released until Oct. 22. Also, do you have any guides recommending the order to install parts and how to keep from building static electricity while I'm working (I'm paranoid that I'm going to ruin something).


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## shotgn (Aug 10, 2008)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Just ground yourself to the case before touching anything

Or you can purchase an anti static wrist band
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261005

And a link for a guide
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1444&page=1


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

I read more about specific parts of this build. I noticed that quite a few users had problems with Corsair Dominator 4gb ddr2 1066 RAM causing a BSOD. Is there an alternative to this RAM that will work with this build?

I am willing to pay some more for excellent quality hardware from well-known brands.


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Corsair is a well-known and respected brand. I've never used that particular kit so I can't say, but their RAM is generally high quality.

A similar kit would be what I'm using, OCZ Platinum 4GB DDR2 1066.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Alright, I'll look into both types of RAM and try and make a decision.

Since I won't have Windows 7 until after Oct. 22nd, I'm wondering if I should wait to buy parts. Do you all advise putting the system together before receiving the OS, or should I hang on? So far I have only purchased the case, hard drive, and DVD drive.

By the way, I am taking monitor suggestions, 19+" is good for me, and I am looking to spend around $125-150. I've never owned a wide-screen monitor before, I take it most resolutions are supported for newer games... what experiences have people had with older games and wide screens?


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

You could buy all the parts and try a bench test. Or maybe screw around with Linux; Ubuntu is good enough for basic web browsing even for people who have never used Linux before. Then you can write over it when you get 7.
Bench Test: http://www.techsupportforum.com/f255/how-to-bench-test-your-system-171424.html


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Thanks for this material, this is helping out a lot, sorry about the seemingly endless questions. I have read that the processor determines whether a system can be 64-bit or not, but how can you tell from the processor's name?

Also, I ran across the Quad Core, and I was wondering what the major differences were, specifically compared to the Core Duo. For example:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Quad-Core Processor, 2.83 GHz, 12M L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB, LGA775 (http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Quad-Co...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1254775745&sr=1-1) 

vs. 

the Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00116SLZS//ref=nosim/connorswebguidec)

I take it if I put a Quad Core in my system, would it be incompatible with most everything else or is it just overkill?

It was this comment on another forum that made me wonder:
"Most games (99%) out there either use only 1 or 2 cores." How worried should I be about games all of a sudden jumping to quad cores and me being left in the dust?


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Virtually all modern processors, and all dual core ones, support 64 bit. With Intel, anything newer than the Pentium D will support x64, and from AMD the Athlon/Turion/Sempron 64 and newer CPUs also support 64 (to my knowledge).


Quad cores are just as compatible with everything as dual cores are. 

Dual core CPUs are great for gaming because with the way game software is written it runs best on single or dual core CPUs. This is due to the way a game is written; the game engine, graphics API, AI, physics, player controls, and game logic all have to share the same information, and because of software limitations writing all of that into more than two threads is a real pain in the butt. Two threads is bad enough; writing it for four can make game development take a lot longer. So game developers are still writing games that run best on dual core CPUs. The advent of quad cores is forcing them to move to quad-threaded games, but it'll be years before it's fully adopted and a quad core is a necessity. I'd say at least three years, maybe more.


So right now a dual core with a high clock rate is the best choice for gaming. Given a 3.0GHz dual core (like the E8400) and a 3.0GHz quad core (like the Q9650) the quad, in games optimized for dual cores the quad core will only get about 0-2% more performance than the dual core. In a quad core optimized game, the quad would get 2-10% more performance. But the Q9650 costs literally more than twice as much as the E8400, and the E8500 performs as well as the Q9650 for $20 more than the E8400.

Quad cores are good for photoshop, video editing and encoding, CAD software, virtualization, and servers. Right now a dual core is the best bang-for-the-buck for games.


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

In answer to your PM, the Q9550 is a very nice processor and a better deal than the Q9650. It won't achieve quite the same performance in FPS games and such as the E8500, but will still work reasonably well. As for how more "future proof it is" I don't know. One thing, the staff is considering recommending Core i5 systems so that *may* be worth looking into... but only if you want to deal with possible instability issues on a brand new platform.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

So, essentially the GHz are what affects the FPS I take it, and that is as much the processor as the video card? In that case I see what you are saying now, and I'll go with the E8500. I'll just pray when games starting getting into quad cores, that there will be an option for the people left behind with dual cores. :smile:


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

When it comes to most modern games, yes, the exception being RTS games (like Command and Conquer and the upcoming Starcraft 2). Games primarily run on two CPU cores, and the few that run on four cores usually get little to no performance boost out of it. Thus the clock speed (GHz) is the most important factor within a given processor family (different families of processors get different amounts of performance per clock... It's kinda complicated).

The CPU actually has relatively little effect on framerate... Kind of. You need a CPU _fast enough_ to keep up with your graphics card. A Radeon 4850 with an E5200 CPU might get 20FPS in a given game, but when paired with an E8400 might get 45fps instead. But, past that point the increase is minor; an E8600 or i5 750 or i7 920 might only get 47-50fps, even though the CPUs are noticeably faster.


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

I don't think games will start really using all four cores of a quad core for at least two years, probably three or four. At that point you can upgrade to a Q9550 or a faster quad (Intel is still making CPUs for the LGA775 socket, so there's still possibility of upgrade past that even). Or if you have a bit more coin you can move up to an LGA1156 mobo, DDR3 RAM, and a Core i5 CPU. But unless you want to transfer to I5 right now--which history has shown with the LGA775 Pentium Ds doesn't always mean you'll have much more room for upgrades--then I'd say an E8500 would be your best bet.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

By the way, for the PSU, do you usually add up the wattage of everything you're installing and buy the PSU based off that?

Also, I'm looking at monitors, but I'm worried I'm going to run into either bad customer support or dead pixels, anyone have suggestions? Perhaps it would be best to buy the monitor locally to make sure it's transported safely?


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Sorry about the unnecessary question above, I just now saw the Power Supply sticky. 

I've purchased everything now except the RAM and processor. Not having ever done this before, I was wondering if these were the exactly the same processor:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00116SLZS//ref=nosim/connorswebguidec

vs.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

I saw the Wolfdale part and noticed it was identified as the Core in the Processor specifications on Newegg. However, no mention of Wolfdale is made on the Amazon page. Further reading suggested that Wolfdale is just the name for the collection of processors: E8500, E8400, and E8200. I'd like to make absolutely sure though.


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

They should be identical. There is the matter of stepping, which is what manufacturing die the CPUs were made on. Amazon may still be selling off the old C0 stepping version of the Wolfdale CPUs rather than the newer E0, so I'd recommend buying from newegg.com instead.


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

Cool deal, and last but not least (thanks for hanging in there with me), I have decided to buy the same RAM as you have Phaedrus:

OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2P10664GK – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...latinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2

I made this choice because of a significant number of complaints about the Corsair RAM causing BSOD and the fans being quite loud. It seemed rather unstable and a lot of people were advising not to get that line of Corsair RAM.
That might be it until the physical building part.


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Recommended $1800 System Questions*

It's a good set of RAM, that's for sure. It kinda sucks that they raised the price though... I got my kit for $52. But then, that's been happening with all the DDR2 RAM recently. :4-dontkno


Anyway, good luck with your build! Glad we could help. :grin:


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## dduckett (Jun 5, 2009)

With the help of a relative, I have the computer up and running Windows 7. A couple notes about the build:
-The power supply was installed upside down to keep the fan from sucking dirt off of the floor.
-Added wheels to the case to keep it further off the ground for better cooling.
-Have had a few crashes, maybe one or two, seem to be related to the video card, but perhaps to Windows 7. 

When I open it up again, I'll try and post some screen shots of the inside. Thanks again Phaedrus (and shotgn), you're the man!


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