# Water leaks into light fixture



## Solidify

My electrician friend came to replace three old porch lights and put these new ones. The light that we removed and replaced with the new one in the photo below was very rusted and stopped working years ago because water got to it (as you can see the water trail that leaks down the balcony and sticks to the concrete). 

How can I fix this to not burn another light? I realize I should have fixed this issue before putting the new lights but I didn't take note of it until it was already installed.


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## Basementgeek

Have you tried caulking around it?

If the water is following the wires into it, that is a problem.

BG


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## Solidify

No I haven't but I was hinting to a more permanent solution (i.e.: sealing off the leak at the edge of the concrete/balcony or maybe seeing where it starts leaking from to begin with and then fixing that), rather than just safeguarding/weatherizing the fixture.


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## Basementgeek

That was not the question asked. Got a question spit it out. Not much advice can been given unless you can get on the roof, we can't. Right now it is too cold to do anything unless it a major leak.

BG


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## SABL

Which way is the water traveling?? (It should be running towards the outside of the balcony) Does the crack extend all the way through the slab?? (I can see a crack underneath but have no clue what the surface looks like on the upper side)


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## kendallt

Can't really tell, but almost looks as though conduit is embedded in the concrete for the wiring. 
You need to find out where the conduit is exposed above that fixture (conduit's 'above' not necessarily physically above) and seal that point. 

If the water is getting in the conduit, it could be a very long ways from the light.


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## Solidify

Sorry BG, your solution was fine. I should have rephrased what I was looking for as a solution.

SABL, here's a picture of the balcony from another thread: 

When it rains, the water hits the ceramic tiles on the top balcony. Then, it runs off the balcony but for some reason, rather than falling straight down onto the driveway, the drops of water wrap around the underside of the balcony and the stream goes directly into that circled fixture (almost like when you're pouring a glass of wine and rather than going into the glass, the wine rides down the bottle's neck and makes a horrible mess everywhere lol)

kendallt, how do I find out where the wire for that light goes/comes from? The top is all ceramic balcony...


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## Douglas C. Stee

It looks as conduit is fixed in the material for the wiring. You need to search out where the conduit is uncovered above that fixture and then close up that area.


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## Solidify

I dont quite understand what you mean


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## Solidify

so after installing my car shelter today, my dad and i realized that the water wasnt leaking around the balcony buy actually going THROUGH it from the tiled balcony on top.. we found one of those light fixtures with a pool of water in the glass bowl.. emptied it out and reinstalled the cage without the glass covers incase it happens agains (to prevent water from staying in there again).. if the tile joints are ok on the top, what could the reason be for water going through the balcony... it literally goes through it!!


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## Basementgeek

I still say it is dripping down from above. You can see the water stains on the concrete edge.

BG


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## MPR

If you have a water problem that can't be easily or relatively inexpensively fixed, consider a sealed light and conduit.

However, a leak, especially in your area, must be addressed eventually as it really can cause your concrete to crack.

Even with the concrete above sealed you may have to install a drip lip so that the water won't keep running back under the overhang. I had the dickens of a time stopping a leak on an office building once because the water was running under the fascia as the builders built the flat roof with no overhang, drip edging or guttering (not to mention other problems). I eventually just put a peaked roof on top of the flat roof.


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## kendallt

That explains why I thought it looked like the water was coming from the fixture in my earlier post. 

If it's a tile surface on the balcony above, use a sealer or re-grout the tile. Look closely for cracks. Sometimes you can get hairline cracks to show up by wetting the floor, toweling it up, then use a hair dryer along the grout lines. The grout will dry quickly, but cracks will hold moisture and show up as thin dark lines. 

If you re-grout, and there is any flex in the balcony, look for some elasticized grout.


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## Solidify

> you may have to install a drip lip so that the water won't keep running back under the overhang


like i said, after careful examination we realized that the water isn't coming from the overhang.. it's seeping through the concrete slab



> use a sealer or re-grout the tile.


yup, thats what my dad thinks it is too, the tile's grout it all missing and dried up so we will try to regrout it in the spring. no choice to tough it out for the winter. in the meantime, i just removed all the glass covers for the fixtures so theres no water buildup in there.


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## Vegassparky

How are those fixtures being fed? Is it a cable, or conduit?

Exterior deck tile installations are as detail oriented as any when it comes to proper execution. If this were over a living space, you'd be tearing it all out so it could be redone with the proper materials/techniques. That is very invasive, and expensive to do properly. What you have now has either no waterproofing layer, or it has been compromised.

Aside from water getting in those fixtures, the water passing through the deck, which will freeze in winter, poses a larger problem. If the tile substrate is already cracked, allowing water through, the freeze thaw cycles will continually degrade the structure of the substrate. 

If the tile is glazed ceramic, or porcelain, it should have very low permeability. If it's unglazed, or natural stone, it can be very porous. Determine exactly what the tile material is. 
Most topical tile/grout sealers protect more against staining, without true waterproofing, to allow vapor transmission back out of the surface, after moisture has been absorbed. If the surface is inherently non porous, a sealer won't have much of an effect.

The grout failure is probably due to normal expansion/contraction of the tile through the seasons. The compressive strength of a tile is typically much higher than a cementatious grout. As the tile/substrate naturally expands/ contracts the grout gets weakened from the compressive loads exerted from the tile. Water infiltrates the initial small cracks, and freezes/expands, thereby destroying the grout by breaking it up. If the substrate has any flex/deflection, that can also contribute to the grout failing. 

With that, what type of structure(wood/gypcrete/concrete,etc)is the tile installed upon? I know you mentioned concrete deck. Is the tile bonded directly to the concrete, with no other layers, or treatments? Are any of the existing tiles coming loose(bouncing a golf ball on each will reproduce a noticeable hollow sound if they aren't bonded properly). Any loose tiles will need to be repaired.

A temporary fix is to replace the grout with something more resistant to the elements, if the failed grout joints are the point where the majority of the water is entering the substrate. An epoxy based grout may be acceptable. 100% silicone or polyurethane in the joints will also seal them. 

There is no magic bullet at this point. Any fixes will just delay the inevitable repair. Damage control of the substrate is the priority. Current engineering dictates that tile is only a decorative finish surface, in ANY application. Grout and tile themselves are not sufficient as a primary water/vapor barrier. The better the fix, the more time you buy. I'd be more concerned with keeping water out of the substrate, with winter coming. The more water that gets in the substrate, the quicker it will degrade, and eventually missing grout will be the least of your worries.


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## Basementgeek

Avoid any type of ice melt if possible. Use only Calcium Chloride (-25F Degrees Protection) if necessary. 

Rock Salt Damage On Concrete

BG


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## Solidify

> How are those fixtures being fed? Is it a cable, or conduit?


can't say, its inside the concrete.



> What you have now has either no waterproofing layer, or it has been compromised.


I don't think it has a waterproofing later but i could be wrong



> Aside from water getting in those fixtures, the water passing through the deck, which will freeze in winter, poses a larger problem. If the tile substrate is already cracked, allowing water through, the freeze thaw cycles will continually degrade the structure of the substrate.


that's what my dad was worried about, we couldn't care less about 3 20$ fixtures.. we just don't want the issue to worsen and have the balcony collapse



> Determine exactly what the tile material is.


how do i do this? I have some spare ones i can exmaine if necessary. all i know is the tiles are really slippery when wet, thats why i wanted to get a rubber mat for the winter.



> I know you mentioned concrete deck. Is the tile bonded directly to the concrete, with no other layers, or treatments?


if id have to guess id say its bonded directly to the concrete bc this summer my dad and i replaced some cracked tiles and when we regrouted them, it was directly onto the concrete.



> Are any of the existing tiles coming loose(bouncing a golf ball on each will reproduce a noticeable hollow sound if they aren't bonded properly). Any loose tiles will need to be repaired.


yes! it seems like most of them are coming loose, mostly the ones near the front doors. i believe this is because one winter we put a fabric carpet there and the water that the carpet retained was sitting on the tile creating a humid environment for the tiles belwo, i think thats what ruined most of them. but yes, before we replaced 7-8 this summer, they were loose, some even to the point of being able to remove the entire tile without it breakig.



> A temporary fix is to replace the grout with something more resistant to the elements, if the failed grout joints are the point where the majority of the water is entering the substrate. An epoxy based grout may be acceptable. 100% silicone or polyurethane in the joints will also seal them.


i still have the glue that we used for the tile this summer in my garage. ill have a look at what we used and get back to you.



> I'd be more concerned with keeping water out of the substrate, with winter coming. The more water that gets in the substrate, the quicker it will degrade, and eventually missing grout will be the least of your worries.


indeed we are

BG, i use this special (and expensive) blue salt that my hardware store said is made for melting ice on exterior tile. i keep the regular salt for the asphalt driveway and the rest of the concrete stairs and walkway


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