# Problem starting computer with restarts over and over



## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Tumbleweed36 said:


> A couple of thoughts come to mind. First of all, did you use Artic Silver 5 for your thermal paste between your heatsink and CPU. If you did, how much or little did you put on there, because it sounds like overheating or a poor thermal solution. If this were mine, I would first clean off the old thermal paste and put artic silver on there again.
> 
> 
> Applying Artic Silver Thermal Paste
> ...


Hey Tumbleweed & Company. Sorry to bump a 3 week old thread with my first post, but I promise it's worth it :smile: (for me anyway!), as I'm having the same problem of computer restarting over and over.

Within 3 minutes of google searching I came across this thread and the 2 things you said are the 2 things I encountered. My CPU chip has been hitting 96 degrees (SpeedFan) with a game running under intensive display situations, so in lue of that I just this morning applied MX-2 Thermal Compound to it (also cleaned fan and heatsink which really needed it). Unfortunately the solution didn't spread well at all for me. Way too much compound came out on the first squeeze, so I scraped off as much of the extra as I could, trying to leave as close to "an uncooked piece of rice" as possible. However, there may be too much still on it, I'm not sure.

I also had a small break in the plastic fan attachment piece that connects to the heatsink, so at first I didn't get both levers down (Intel fan on Abit mobo). I read this thread and re-attached the heatsink and everything lined up nicely and both levers rotated into place, with the thin broken plastic side-piece area lining up smoothly with where it broke off (it doesn't seem to affect how well everything is clamped together vertically as the break is on a horizontal piece, I could be wrong though).

Sadly, the computer is still restarting over and over. I'm going to take out the heatsink again but this time re-secure the CPU chip itself and make sure it's snug. I'm deathly afraid my computers dead though, and scared to even go near the CPU chip once more. :sigh: Do you think we could be looking at the thermal compound being too thick (or thin) and somehow preventing parts from locking in securely? Or something else?

I figured I'd post here first and in the meantime see what I can manage re-securing the pieces. Thank you very much in advance for your time and effort if anyone can help. I have the utmost respect for the assistance you guys always provide others, here's hoping you won't mind helping one more ray:


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

-- Update 6-08-08, 5:30am EST --

I didn't work with my computer at all on Saturday, but Friday night I re-secured the heatsink and checked to make sure the bar that sets the CPU chip in was firmly in place. This time, though, I did notice that the small metal lever for freeing the CPU chip wasn't fully flush against the motherboard, its hovering just slightly above it by a millimeter or 2. Unfortunately I can't remember what its original position relative to the mobo was when I first opened it, but I didn't want to be too forceful with it for fear of breaking it.

(Friday) My computer's still restarting over and over though, only now I smell a plastic/alcohol kind of scent coming from the power source fan. I did use alcohol to clean off the old compound residue but I'm not smelling it from the case fan below the power source fan, plus the alochol was likely to be fully dry long before then. I hope I didn't kill my power source because of the chain restarting the computer's been doing.

The 2-digit internal LED lights up fine when I turn the rear power switch on, and for the split second the computer is on before it restarts, all the lights and fans go on, at least the 3 fans I could see from that angle. So it's getting juice, but I don't know jack about power sources so I can't speculate further.

A couple friends of mine suggested a few things but I'd like to wait until I hear from you guys before I go playing with it again. I know the more I tamper with the computer, the more I risk causing more severe damage to it. One friend's suggestion was to plug the speakers in and listen for a "POST" code of beeps, perhaps giving me information as to a specific reason its elected to restart itself.

I leave it in your hands from here though, as I'm out of ideas. Thanks again for your time guys, hope to hear from you soon.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Hi :wave:

Clear CMOS:
Get rid of static electricity by touching a radiator or bare metal on the computer case.
Then unplug the computer from the wall outlet and open the case.
Remove the little "coin-like" battery on the motherboard.
Move the "clear CMOS" jumper on the motherboard from pins 1&2 to pins 2&3.
Wait 30 minutes.
Replace the jumper to pins 1&2.
Put the battery back.
Close the case and start the computer.
Enter BIOS and choose "Load setup defaults" (or something similar) - save and exit BIOS.


Please post the *system specifications*.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

eneles said:


> Hi :wave:
> 
> Clear CMOS:
> Get rid of static electricity by touching a radiator or bare metal on the computer case.
> ...


Here are my System Specs, mostly off-hand

Power Supply: (checking, will edit post after)
Motherboard: Abit AI7
CPU: Intel P4 3.2 GHz
RAM: 2GB = 4x 512MB sticks of Kingston 3500's
Video Card: EVGA GeForce 7800 AGP, either 512 or 256 MB (forgot which)
Hard Drive: (not sure I can check this if computer won't boot)
Operating System: Windows XP
(No overclocking to my knowledge)

Thanks for looking into this for me! I'll be trying your advice within the next hour or 2, hopefully I can find pins 1,2,3 easily enough. But I'm scared every time I touch my computer now, as if I'm a do-it-yourself surgeon operating on an infant. *cringe*


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

You forgot the power supply. :smile:
Look at the sticker inside the case.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Power source is an Antec 350Watt, Model SL350 :tongue: Had to get some caffeine in me first.

Still has that that weird smell coming from it, but then again, I never get my face behind the computer unless something's wrong with it, and it's been a while.

Oh, this question may or may not be related to what's going on, but it was a strange coincidence so figured no harm in mentioning it: I got a new surge protector power strip a couple weeks ago, and after plugging it in, the first boot up the machine turned on and then right off, then 2 seconds later it booted up normally. The first quick on/off was in the exact same fashion of how it restarts over and over now, except it only turned off once before fully booting up.

I had never seen it do this before, and it hasn't done it since then, or if anything maybe once. Is this a normal thing with surge protectors? This happened before I did anything internally with thermal compound, all I did at the time was put in the new power strip. -- Due to this odd behavior from the power strip I've been bypassing it, opting to go straight into the wall outlet for my recent computer troubleshooting.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

I've located the coin-battery but I'm still looking for the CMOS jumper area. I'll post when I'm in the 30 minute wait time after completing your steps.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Still no luck in locating the CMOS jumper or the names of related refereneces/letters on the mobo. I'm still going through google image search for Abit pictures and general mobo pictures, but so far the "jumpers" I've seen are not what's located near my coin-battery, or anywhere else for that matter.

All I wanted to do was help my computer drop to a safer temperature, and now the temp is "completely safe" because the machine is unusable. This is so frustrating :sigh:

I did a little poking around about strange smells, and it seems that if it's indeed coming from my PSU that it could be dead or close to it, and as such it puts the rest of my computer at risk, would you agree? I've been wanting to get a new higher-watt PSU anyway for a while now, since I know 350 is the minimum for my video card, but money's tight and I've also heard that higher watt PSU's can still be risky if they are generic brands, so there's much research I'd have to do.

Okay, back to searching pictures for now.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

The CMOS jumper is marked red in the picture below:








When you have the computer unplugged:
Double check all cables/connections inside the case. One of them may be loose.
Check the CPU heatsink again.
Reseat the RAM sticks.

Does the computer stay on long enough to make it possible to check temperatures/voltages in BIOS?

I have absolutely no experience with power surge protection. We don't use it where I live (not needed).


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Working at prying the battery loose without breaking the 2 small overlapping grips holding it in, tricky as heck though. I'll let ya know when I get the bugger off. :grin:


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

After numerous attempts (and many rest breaks) I cannot for the life of me get this battery out, I'm sorry! I'm going to seek even more guides to safely remove it and I'll try once or twice more before bed tonight to take it out.

One thing after another is making this troubleshooting so much more difficult than it's probably supposed to be, so thanks for your help and patience as I try to work through it. I'll update you as soon as I have something to update on. ray:


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

It's the start of a new day and a new approach to taking this coin cell out (hopefully without breaking anything). If I can get past the technical difficulties I'll post when I'm in the 30 minute wait period.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

As of 1:35pm EST the coin cell is out and I moved the jumper from pins 1&2 to 2&3. Now waiting 30 minutes as instructed. :grin:


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Again - check the CPU heatsink.
Your PSU is pretty "weak" (16A on the +12V rail). How old is it?


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

What do you mean by check the heatsink? As in how firmly secure it is? And I bought this computer almost 2.5 years ago from a guy used, so the power source is at least that old.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Just gave it a go after coin cell and jumper instructions, still restarting over and over.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

It's either CPU overheating or a power problem that makes the computer restart. Maybe a loose RAM stick...

Unplug the computer.

Disconnect all power connections inside - then put them back.
Take the RAM sticks out - put them back.


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

if money is a problem go for this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006
if you can afford it go for this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139003&Tpk=corsair+450w


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Okay I'll do the cables and RAM sticks now.

If there was any part of the processor exposed and not covered by thermal compound, even if just a little bit, could that be causing the overheating? I'm tempted to wipe off the compound I applied and try applying it again thinly and more evenly.

No dice, still restarting. I know I'm no expert but the only things I really interacted with were the CPU fan, heatsink, thermal compound, and CPU chip itself. And since it's been doing the restart cycles since the first time I tampered with all of that, I feel like it's one of those things.

I could take the heatsink off again but I don't know what problems I'd be looking for, other than re-applying the thermal compound. If there's too much thermal in there right now, could that lead to the restarts? I've heard that too much can actually overheat you, but I don't know the reasoning behind that. I do know that less is more with thermal compound, so I'm very tempted to clear it all and re-apply, think I should?


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

follow the instructions for the paste
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Hehe, already had the page up as I was looking over it. :grin: I'll post after I clean and re-apply the thermal grease. Thanks for waiting!


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Thermal grease cleaned and re-applied cleanly with no troubles, computer still restarting. :upset: Is it time to get a loan for a PSU? And if I did drop a new PSU in it, could the chain restarting blow out the new PSU if it continued to restart? If it did, would the PSU be covered by company's warranty? This whole thing is so depressing, I can't afford to buy all new parts for everything in hopes that the problem will go away, money is beyond tight for me. I only wanted to help my PC and instead I'm guilty of murder. I should've let it stay hot and never bothered to improve it with brain surgery. But after seeing 40+ wizz kids apply thermal with their eyes closed it seemed too tempting to save $300 by not having a pro do it, considering I paid $400 for the computer itself. :sigh: I'm lost in the abyss of electronic hell.


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## Pharaohz (May 10, 2008)

It takes longer then that for the cpu to heat up. Even with no fan or heat sink you would get well into the loading of windows before it failed if not onto the desktop. Power supply would be my guess. Though as with the cpu, its not turning on long enough to heat up and fail. The ram idea was a good idea. 

Wrongly placing your cpu in its socket will cause this exact problem. Though you should be hearing a beep i believe.

To much Thermal paste could drip down onto/into the cpu fins. 

Id suggest you remove the fan/heat sink/ cpu. Remove the paste, apply a better, lesser coat. Use the end of a credit card to do so if you dont have the applicator. Check to make sure you didnt bend any of the pins. They bend oh so easy. Make sure the cpu drops fully back down into place. The green of the cpu board should rest agains the tan of the plastic that the pins go into on the mobo. The little lever that locks the cpu into place will close easy. At this point you can test to see if the computer will start without putting the heat sink and fan on. If it starts up, hit the power button and turn it off. Finish putting the hs/fan but on. And there you go.

NOW... you might wanna think back and try to remember, did you ground yourself out before you got to digging inside your computer? Good luck


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

no it will not hurt the psu


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Pharaohz said:


> It takes longer then that for the cpu to heat up. Even with no fan or heat sink you would get well into the loading of windows before it failed if not onto the desktop. Power supply would be my guess. Though as with the cpu, its not turning on long enough to heat up and fail. The ram idea was a good idea.
> 
> Wrongly placing your cpu in its socket will cause this exact problem. Though you should be hearing a beep i believe.
> 
> ...


Earlier this afternoon I re-installed each of my 4 sticks of RAM, and removed and re-applied the thermal compound from my first attempt, this time it went on very cleanly with no problems. And so far I've frequently grounded myself using the bare metal piece that holds the PSU in.

I will check to see if: the pins are bent, foreign material is in the pin area, the green matches up with tan, and that the processor is placed in the right direction (pretty sure it was but will still check, I noted 2 things for direction, including the lining up of arrows).

I'll also try it without the heatsink/fan on while ready to turn it off. Shouldn't take long to notice if its booted correctly since currently it's restarting every 1.5-2.0 seconds, turning off almost instantly upon each attempt.

That's good to know about my hypothetical new PSU scenario. But, how could my PSU get damaged in the process of changing thermal paste, if it indeed wouldn't be hurt by the restarting? -- Thanks yet again for helping me guys, I know this is starting to get tough and that options may be running low.


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## Pharaohz (May 10, 2008)

Just a lil bit of info. There is only one way to put a cpu in. At least with 32bit cpus. Never seen a 64bit. But id think they would keep them the same. There are 2 missing pins on the corner of each cpu and on the plastic piece they drop into there are no holes where those 2 pins would be. The top of the cpu will have that corner missing also at a 45 degree angle. But this isnt to say you cant put em in wrong. Its way easy to put em in wrong and fold over those 2 pins. 

Ive heard it said that thermal paste doesnt conduct electricity. But heres the truth of it... IT DOES!!! (this is not directed at you machine) For those that believe paste doesnt conduct electricity you are so very very very wrong. I hear this all the time from ppl who have put to much paste on and squeezed out over the side into the pin holes. Thermal paste contains silver. Silver being a metal and a metal that is on the higher end for conducting electricity. Here is a quote from a how to apply paste site. Great info site by the way and ill leave the addy for it.

"Depending on what thermal paste you decide to use, there may be some things that you should be aware of. Arctic Silver and most thermal pastes containing silver are electrically conductive. This means that you should keep it away from processor, memory, and motherboard traces and processor pins. If it does come in contact with traces, there is a chance that you can short your part and become problematic."

Machine, if you have paste in the pin holes, you have to get that outta there. Im not sure how maybe on this site it will give some hints. Maybe with a good small vaccum? Can the tan housing be removed? Do you dare? Here is the paste site:

http://hardwarelogic.com/news/128/ARTICLE/1102/2006-01-30.html


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

don't start up without the heatsink attached


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## Pharaohz (May 10, 2008)

Ya I didnt go far enough into starting with the heatsink off. I only do it for testing and never leave the computer on longer then just a few seconds. If i hear the beep and the HD start to spin, I know its good to go and hit the power button. I also do this with a test HD in. For me, I find it safer doing it this way then messing with the bracket, fan and heat sink when you are messing with cpus.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

I analyzed the CPU's pins closely and they all seem in order, unless there's a microscopic piece of material in there that I didn't see, so it's still restarting. What else is there to try other than a new PSU? And what happens if it's still restarting even after a new PSU installation?


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Did you check the voltages and temps in BIOS?
Try starting with 1 stick of RAM.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Ah that's what I forgot to do, starting with 1 stick of RAM. The computer instantly restarts after being on for a quarter of a second though, so no beeps or BIOS show before it restarts again. The only thing that could possibly provide information is the 2-digit LED inside the computer, which usually starts out as 3, then I think F3, and possibly a third reading, per each restart cycle. I'll write down what numbers show when I try the 1 stick of ram in case they mean anything. Thought I read a couple years ago the numbers do actually have corresponding information.


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

the codes meaning should be listed in your manual


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

I removed all 4 RAM sticks and then re-inserted just one of them into slot 1. Still restarting. So I put all 4 sticks back in and tried again, still restarting.

I'm currently talking to a guy who has some extra PSU's lying around, says he's going to check the wattages of each and get back to me. What would be your next suggestion if the replacement PSU didn't solve the restarting?

Again I thank you guys for your patience on this, I wish for all our sakes that it's successfully resolved soon.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

The post codes I'm seeing when its in the restart loop is a quick 83 then F3 then the restart. After looking up the Abit AI7's post codes online (manual is in this room somewhere but couldn't find it right away), the codes allegedly mean:

83 = Save all data in stack to CMOS (a replying poster said 83 was "ATX power supply ready" in their own manual)
F3 = Power Off Sequence Timeout

A post on the Abit forums from 2006 reads: "Hi, I had this exact same problem, started up one day and the fans were spinning for a second then post code 83 (which in my manual says ATX power supply ready) then after a minute would come up with an F (i presume that means fail). It turned out to be the PSU anyway, put a new one in and problem solved "


The difference here being my 83/F3 codes show very quickly and not "after a minute".


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Take all the power plugs out - then put them back. Make sure the 4-pin 12V plug is seated correctly (top left on the mobo).

Also - verify that the CPU fan gets power from the correct connector.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Okay I'll do that. For the connectors that have 4 holes on them each (these seem to be the most common), are they universal as to which device they can connect to? Or are they to be plugged into specific devices each? Either way I'll try and keep track of which goes where.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Some motherboards refuse to boot if there isn't a fan plugged in to the CPU fan connector.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Computer still restarting. -- I re-connected the conntections from the PSU and made sure the CPU fan was connected to the right power socket "CPUFAN1", and confirmed that as the computer attempted to boot that the fan (and all others) do infact rotate. 

Since the one thing I interacted with the most was the cpu fan/heatsink when I unplugged and removed them, do you think that even though it's getting juice the connectors for the cpu fan were damaged in the process, and is causing the restarting despite getting power itself?

I haven't heard anything back from the guy who had the PSU's unfortunately. I'm going to write him again now.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

You have to try another PSU.
If you can't borrow one, have a look at Dai's suggestions again.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

Ok I finally got a PSU, 400w. I'll be putting it in tonight or tomorrow. Do you guys have any suggestions/advice/guides you may want me to follow? :smile:


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

What PSU did you get?
Take notes when you remove the old PSU, so you don't forget any plugs when installing the new.


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## Machine66 (Jun 6, 2008)

It's an A-Power 400w 12v ATX Intel P4 power supply. Cheap, but better than a dead PSU any day.


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## Deleted090308 (Jan 25, 2007)

Sounds like the system is up and running now???


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