# Cloning Ubuntu Drive - How ?



## Done_Fishin

Hi all
Recently opted to do a UBUNTU install after thinking about it for a long long time. Unfortunately the 40GB drive I installed to decided to offer me a SMART warning about imminent failure shortly after doing the installation. Currently it is working fine although I suspect slowly.
I am using the Primary Master drive for Ububtu whilst the Primary slave boots into XP. I am not using a partition or OS manager and the OS I want to boot is set up in BIOS each time because my P4 2.66GHz mobo doesn't have a boot selector menu at power on.
The system appears to be functional in this form but as yet I haven't really used UBUNTU sufficiently to know whether I am just lucky or not. The XP install is (to date) working quite happily.

I decided to clone the drive to another drive of another manufacturer that I have sitting around spare. In fact I have 2 and tried them both without success. I am a newb to Linux systems although i do have many years experience elsewhere.
The Original install was to a 40 GB drive which I made 1GB swap, & then 3 partitions of around 10GB each thinking that I would also like later to install the LinuxOS & Knoppix systems which I have also downloaded as LIVE Bootable CD's. I installed UBUNTU 6.10 to the first partition after the swap drive using manual mode install.
After realising my imminet drive failure I decided to grab a 20GB drive and use Ghost 7.5 to clone the partitions. That didn't work and I can't remember now whther I just got a flashing cursor & nothing happened or the word grub flashed up on screen filling it forever!
I figured it was disk size error so I deleted 2 of the extra partitions to bring the size approx to the same as the 20GB disk. That also didn't work.
I left it a short while because of more urgent/pressing matters and decided today to try yet another HDD. This time a 40GB drive that I cloned ( I hope) as disk to disk and 1:1. when I tried booting though the word grub just filled the screen and kept on going. 
Is there a special procedure for cloning a Linux drive? or is there some code written somewhere that identifies the drive and size which causes problems when you require to replace the drive? Should I make a clone image first and then do the clone from the image?
Any help would be appreciated, Thanks


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## justo

If you are new to Linux and got XP to run on master HD and Ubuntu to run on the slave connector of the second hard drive.Then have a choice to boot either when you hit the ON switch then you should turn around and pat yourself on the back because I think you have performed a merricle. As for the other things you ask.Wait for the experts. I only load with Windows on the same HD .Or, two Linux on the same HD.


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## Bartender

All these years and I still don't have the difference between cloning and copying straight. What's the brand of the drive you're trying to move to? I'd go to their website and download the latest version of their disk utility. Burn to a disk. It should make a bootable CD. Unplug the Windows drive, plug in your spare drive, check to see that the jumpers are allowing the BIOS to see both drives, and toss in the disk utility. It should give you an option to copy the data from the old drive to the newer one. 
I think that would work.

Your GRUB error may be something else entirely, but if it was working before it oughta work with a disk that's a copy of the original.

EDIT: I am not one of the experts justo referred to :grin:


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## Done_Fishin

justo said:


> If you are new to Linux and got XP to run on master HD and Ubuntu to run on the slave connector of the second hard drive.Then have a choice to boot either when you hit the ON switch then you should turn around and pat yourself on the back because I think you have performed a merricle. As for the other things you ask.Wait for the experts. I only load with Windows on the same HD .Or, two Linux on the same HD.


Thanks for your input and thoughts ..
I don't think it's a miracle that they are working together .. the UBUNTU install btw is on the master and XP the slave. I did that deliberately because I know that more modern systems have a boot menu at power on to select the boot source. In my case though I have to reselect which drive I boot from within BIOS which is a pain but effective. The boot drive is automatically seen as the "C:" drive because it boots there. You might want to note though that I first installed UBUNTU then XP so as to ensure that I got the right boot flavour. Didn't want either OS affecting the other. The only downside is that I can't remove the faulty HDD and boot into XP. It refuses!


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## Done_Fishin

Bartender said:


> All these years and I still don't have the difference between cloning and copying straight. What's the brand of the drive you're trying to move to? I'd go to their website and download the latest version of their disk utility. Burn to a disk. It should make a bootable CD. Unplug the Windows drive, plug in your spare drive, check to see that the jumpers are allowing the BIOS to see both drives, and toss in the disk utility. It should give you an option to copy the data from the old drive to the newer one.
> I think that would work.
> 
> Your GRUB error may be something else entirely, but if it was working before it oughta work with a disk that's a copy of the original.
> 
> EDIT: I am not one of the experts justo referred to :grin:


Again, Thanks for your input and thoughts ..

Cloning, just to help you see the difference, means making an *exact copy *of each sector on one HD to the same on the other. Sometimes it's important to do that because of hidden data that is accessed by programs. If it getrs put inthe wrong place, everything crashes because it can't find the data. A Copy is just that! You grab something from one place and throw it without thinking, elsewhere. It's like copying the boot.ini of your C: drive to d:\backup. The file is there but no longer where it can be useful when you replace the one drive with the other.

Whilst I believe your idea might work about grabbing the Utilty, I think it's a question of having the correct program that recognises Linux partitions. Ghost uses DOS, which in turn doesn't recognise NON-DOS partitions properly. So what I am looking for is the correct way of booting into a linux environmet and then cloning the one drive to the other. Cloning hdd's is something I have been doing for years, cloning Linux is something I have to learn to do now!
Thanks again


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## justo

Go here and get the download of Acrois HOME..It is a trial unless to click on BUY NOW. But that will save the immage on the HD to a CD or DVD so you can reload it.> about 2 down is the home version>> http://www.download.com/3120-20_4-0.html?tg=dl-20&qt=Acronis&tag=srch


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## justo

OH,OK,You are doing the Linux clone? Maybe one of these will help .But I thought the Acronis could do both Linux and Windows? >> http://xrl.us/v3c2


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## Bartender

Hi, Done -
So you have a 2-part question, right? First off, you can't get into your Linux install, and second, you're not sure how to clone it once you're in?

Man. I'm more of a Linux generalist. Can't help too much when it gets to specific commands in terminal or even in the GUI. I popped over to Ubuntu Forums and searched "clone". Numerous replies. Here's one.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=425306&highlight=clone

There are thousands of posts regarding restoring GRUB, and that sounds like one of the first things I'd try if you think the rest of the Linux data is on the new drive. Again, here's one.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=427034&highlight=reinstall+grub

If you figure this all out, maybe you'll share your new-found knowledge with us? :grin: 

I want to add that MEPIS 6.5 makes mounting drives super easy with the KwikDisk icon over in the lower right corner of the desktop. I'm very impressed with the new MEPIS.

Even the new Ubuntu Feisty will automount drives. Including Windows!! I'll be happy to recycle the pile of notes I've collected on mounting drives via terminal!


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## Done_Fishin

THanks for those links .. it seems that Acronis DO support Linux but they are mainly advertised as being a Windows OS software. I think though, if I understand correctly, it has to be installed on Windows in order to work (which is no problem for me). I'll let you know hwen I have managed to download & install. Most of the info that I hve seen up to now requires playing around at command prompt so a utility to do the work would be fine.


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## justo

Oh,Yes. We talked of loading a Linux on the master HD in one PC and take it out and put as master in another PC.Often it finds its way up and goes right on in the other PC.But as he had that certain strange double hard drive hook up this may not work.


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## Done_Fishin

Seems whilst I was having dinner after starting a reply you got in before me .. and thanks for those extra links. Seems like I must have hit a nerve with my question. 
One site I visited said there are only three types of drive 
those that will fail, those that have failed and those that got retired before they failed ... so it's probably a good idea to get the clone question sorted whilst I know that my drive is in the first category, BIOS knows it and the writing is on the wall!
Thanks again for all that help
now all I have to do is take a look at that mepis thing you mentioned.

on a side note I prefer Knoppix over Ubuntu from what I have seen so far .. it comes with a better desktop which shows the PC in similar terms to that which I am used to (Windoes) mounting the drives and looking around is much simpler. Ubuntu seems to make you work a lot harder.


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## justo

I often find hard drives thrown away as no good.But I reload with Linux after I run a format with G Parted and they work fine. I am testing a screen shot here. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/clod/ISOREAD.png


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## Done_Fishin

I have a few drives myself that are no longer much good for windows use (I hoard data) and which are just fine for testing out new OS's. This latest PC though was given to me as a throw out so I figured I would use it as a test bed. Hence my being able to fianlly getting around to test drive Linux. It's taken me years to get this far!

On another note I followed the first link to Ghost4 Linux which it seems requires an ftp server but has a guide to doing it.
I didn't realise that SimplyMEPIS 6.5 was another Linux system but it's now being downloaded for appraisal. Hope I got that right cos I just saw the download size for the iso file and figured that if it as that big it HAD to be an OS.
I'm going to look at the other link shortly. It might even be that I'll need to use one of 2 Linux bootable floppies that I made years back when removing a Linux partition from a workmates 2GB HDD (back in the days of Win98!!)


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## Bartender

Yeah, I really like MEPIS 6.5. The 680MB download is for i-386 and the 690 is for AMD64. OOPS, gotta go.


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## Done_Fishin

Thanks for all your help .. I'll post some more as I get to grips with the problem


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## Bartender

A coupla other things that really impressed me with MEPIS - I just let it auto install to a spare drive and it set up a /home partition. never saw that before! Also, it recognized that the Intel 915 chipset onboard vid was capable of screen rotation and let me rotate the screen with just a couple of clicks. Cool! I hardly ever run my screen in landscape. Portait is more efficient most of the time.


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## Done_Fishin

JUst downloaded the 32 bit version and booted from CD looked good and I was on the net surfing without hassle .. looks like I'll be checking out that system a bit more .. I have the spare drives, Thanks for the tips. Now back to the cloning problem though .. I'm still searching


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## justo

I was asleep awhile. > www.distrowatch.com < A list on the right shows the popular versions of Linux .I try a number of them but mainly Live CDs or DVDs that can be installed. You can click on a name and the info comes up for it.I like Knoppix but it will not easily connect my wireless card.Netgear MA 311. Most Linux versions have a driver on the disk for that and it is easy to make a connection.But here are my favorites. ( PC Linux 2007 TR4 ) ( Mepis 6.5 ) ( Mint Bianca. this one is gnome) (Mint Biaca KDE on DVD) It takes a DVD deck to burn and load it. The Mints have an update icon on low right of the desktop.I never click it because the updates make my wirelss card go off.I think it is a Kernel update from Ubuntu. I have not used the new Suse versions.It is too much downloading and you can only choose a live disk set or a loading disk set.One I have that I want to use but my wireless card is not working on is Sabayon Mini.I like it but I want my wireless card t work.


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## PureEvilDan

I'm not 100% sure if your still talking bout cloning, but if you can boot your orginal partition, and you have 
another 40GB hrd drive, you can clone it in Linux (via console)

As root:


Code:


fdisk -l
[B]
STOP!
Check to see which is your linux, and which is your Windows hard drive.
Maybe even unplug your windows drive.[/B]

dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb

Replace /dev/hda with your Ubuntu Drive
Replace /dev/hdb with the drive you wish to copy TO!
check & double check the fdisk -l output

This clones your whole drive, byte by byte to the next drive.


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## Bartender

Thanks, Dan, for showing up with some code. ray: 

As in the case you give, CLI can be very simple, but you gotta know exactly what to type in. What would be perfect for me is a binder right next to the PC with the 500 most used terminal commands all typed out and explanations of what and how they work.


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## justo

He comes in the nick of time.Kinda puts in the mind of the Lone ranger.


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## Done_Fishin

justo said:


> He comes in the nick of time.Kinda puts in the mind of the Lone ranger.


Kinda showing your age there aren't we ?? I was almost too young to remember!:grin: :grin: 

I opened a whole can of worms here and am getting sidetracked by every webpage and TSF response I see. 

That code looks good but I need clarification. 

when you say "console" is that from terminal or is it a separate "command prompt" window?

fdisk I must have in an old Red Hat floppy but I reckon that I might need the latest version since back then drives weren't so big! What does the *-l * mean?



> STOP!
> Check to see which is your linux, and which is your Windows hard drive.
> Maybe even unplug your windows drive.


GOES WITHOUT SAYING!



> dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb


is if input file and of output file? reckon I can understand whatb is happening here .. Master(Original) would be hda and Slave (Copy) would be hdb



> Replace /dev/hda with your Ubuntu Drive
> Replace /dev/hdb with the drive you wish to copy TO!
> check & double check the fdisk -l output


I am assuming that these are just notes to remind me of what I said earlier. Could be taken to mean that I sneed to do or write something else. 
Remember that it's always the "unpoken" ( I thought t was obvious!) thoughts that trip the newb up. I only remember 2 occasions when I had anything to do with Unix/Linux. The first was around 1991/92 on 82386 mobo's cloning drives that would be put into PC's sold to educational establishments. I remember the dd command from back then .. but little else! The second was when a colleague studying part-time at Uni had created a dual boot Windows / RedHat 2GB drive. At some point he went crazy trying to delete the linux partition and came to me for help. I eventually realised that the fdsik prog needed to be the Red hat version and made an Emergency Boot disk which removed the unwanted partition. That's it apart from looking over other peoples shoulders! I doubt if I am alone and it;s the thought of learning yet another "totally diferent" work environment & language interface that has stopped me so far.

btw I have downloaded Super Grub Disk in cae I ever need it to fix the grub . Looking now to see if I can use it and learn what it's to be used for.


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## PureEvilDan

Done_Fishin said:


> That code looks good but I need clarification.
> 
> when you say "console" is that from terminal or is it a separate "command prompt" window?
> 
> fdisk I must have in an old Red Hat floppy but I reckon that I might need the latest version since back then drives weren't so big! What does the *-l * mean?


Console is what ever terminal / command line prompt that Ubuntu uses. I don't have Ubuntu handy, nor properly used it. Err, if I remember rightly its gnome, and should be called Terminal....

Anyway, fdisk is a standard linux command, and again if you can boot ubuntu should be on there & able to use that version



man fdisk said:


> -l List the partition tables for the specified devices and then
> exit. If no devices are given, those mentioned in /proc/parti-
> tions (if that exists) are used.


An example output is here... (Note, I have 1 SATA hard drive)


Code:


BugsBunny ~ # fdisk -l {Thats a lower case L not a capital i}

Disk /dev/sda: 250.0 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *           1           3       24066   83  Linux    /boot (ext2)
/dev/sda2               4         191     1510110   82  Linux swap / Solaris 
/dev/sda3             192        7661    60002775   83  Linux  / (reiserfs 3)
/dev/sda4            7662       30401   182659050   83  Linux  /home (jfs)
BugsBunny ~ #

The orange bits above are for the curious.



> is if input file and of output file? reckon I can understand whatb is happening here .. Master(Original) would be hda and Slave (Copy) would be hdb


Indeed, the if= <- input of= <- output 



> Remember that it's always the "unpoken" ( I thought t was obvious!) thoughts that trip the newb up. I only remember 2 occasions when I had anything to do with Unix/Linux. The first was around 1991/92 on 82386 mobo's cloning drives that would be put into PC's sold to educational establishments. I remember the dd command from back then .. but little else! The second was when a colleague studying part-time at Uni had created a dual boot Windows / RedHat 2GB drive. At some point he went crazy trying to delete the linux partition and came to me for help. I eventually realised that the fdsik prog needed to be the Red hat version and made an Emergency Boot disk which removed the unwanted partition. That's it apart from looking over other peoples shoulders! I doubt if I am alone and it;s the thought of learning yet another "totally diferent" work environment & language interface that has stopped me so far.
> 
> btw I have downloaded Super Grub Disk in cae I ever need it to fix the grub . Looking now to see if I can use it and learn what it's to be used for.


Just so you know, I was 6/7 in 91/92 :4-thatsba 
Most of what I know, I learned through my own mistakes, and help. Also man pages are amazingly helpful.


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## justo

I never clone a Linux load to move it.The CD is free .There is no keycode.You can reload it as many times as you want.It takes twelve minutes to load PC Linux 2007.You can run the info you want to save on to a CD .Reload to the next hard drive and add the info.I do this every week just to try Linux versions.PS.I hope you live as long as I have.I did not expect to see my 21st birthday.


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## Done_Fishin

@Dan
Thanks again Dan for popping in to help me. You have the advantage of youth that hasn't been burdened with knowledge that confuses the issues. I have been through so many different systems in computing during the last 35 years that sometimes I wonder if I am using the right terminology or command.

Do those commands work at device level or only at disk level ? What I mean is that (way back) I thought that dd copied the whole disk contents but we are talking of disk drives in the 10MByte / 40MByte capacity before ( I think) partitions were popular (existed?)
My Current set up has just been updated and whilst it would be no hassle to to do it all over again, that would take out the learning factor that allows me to understand what is happening and how to manipulate the system. I am NO PROGRAMMER although I did a bit of mainframe machine code manipulation for I/O peripheral testing in the 70's & Z80 assembler / compiler stuff in the early 80's (along with a bit of BASIC, DBAse III programming etc) Gives me a base for understanding but leaves me with a lot of holes in my knowledge.



I played around with the unallocated partition space on my HDD's today . I have removed the XP Primary Slave disk and replaced it with the 40GB "Clone" that I mentioned earlier . I have created new partitions (active and extended) to fill the drive and make it useful (if not a nightmare that has yet to be seen!:grin: )
I don't remember at any time doing a format, is this automatic ? I did this by booting intro Ubuntu Feisty Fawn CD at Boot (I am on line - working from the boot CD) then using GpartD to look at the drives. I have noticed that originally we were talking about using 
/dev/hda
however in GpartD and in your -l example of your SATA disk I have seen 
/dev/sda1
is this because it's a partition?
I also noted that I was allowed to use the "copy" function with respect to the newly created partitions but not from the existing partitions on the HDD.

I note that the cloning of the drive appears to have been successful to the point where I can see the partitions created and browse into the my HOME folder and the downloaded files & programs that I had been playing with. It seems that I don't really have a cloning problem but maybe a grub problem that a bit of playing around with the super grub floppy will help fix.



@Justo. So you remember the Lone Ranger (from the first time round or a later repeat? - They had it here a few years ago in Greece on one of the channels. Took me back to my childhood briefly before changing the channel!) but never expected to see your 21st. I can read a lot of things into that from environment to physical condition. My wife and I met when we were 28 years old. She insisted at that time that she didn't expect to live long and that she doubted she would live more than 35. When her 36th Birhday came and passed she said "35??!! I meant 53!' In a few months time she will be 56, and although she has several health problems I suspect that she might outlive me! Personally I thinks it's all a question of thinking positively .. and keeping out of the way of fast moving vehicles! btw she has (to my knowledge) no physical disability or ailments that would prompt her beliefs.

Re Booting from CD, I am lucky enough to have recently built a P4 2.66GHz PC with 1GB memory which I have decided to use as a test bed. Booting into Ubuntu doesn't take long and gives me the ability, like now to isolate myself from the HD's whilst looking for help on the web. I even have to keep my password handy for TSF now since I assume that it will forget as soon as I power off!

Thanks for your help and chat guys. I reckon my system will soon be properly up & running from HDD. 
afterthought .. do I need to format hdd's before applying data like in Dos & windows or has this already been done for me by GpartD.
Thanks again


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## justo

I just got up and on my way to do a job.Yes I remember the first edition of the Lone Ranger.I survived the sixties.But in the USA that was when they made Fender guitars and Chevy cars that are worth twenty times their original price today.I went through wars and bars and several motorbikes and landed here in front of a monitor screen where I get most of my excitement these days.I meet a lot of interesting people .Like you ,Bartender and Pure Evil Dan. I do a lot of Linux versions out of habit but I look for easy ways to make them work.I never get into the command line thing.I used to try.But my hopes is that Linux can replace Windows.If it does then it has to be as easy to install and operate for average people.So I load Linux for people who are not very well versed in computer language and rather that fit the Linux to the hardware I find hardware that Linux likes. Now I wonder where my pal Bartender ran off too? He was always here when there was nobody else to chat with. Come back by and keep us posted on your adventures.


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## PureEvilDan

Done_Fishin said:


> @Dan
> Thanks again Dan for popping in to help me. You have the advantage of youth that hasn't been burdened with knowledge that confuses the issues. I have been through so many different systems in computing during the last 35 years that sometimes I wonder if I am using the right terminology or command.
> 
> Do those commands work at device level or only at disk level ? What I mean is that (way back) I thought that dd copied the whole disk contents but we are talking of disk drives in the 10MByte / 40MByte capacity before ( I think) partitions were popular (existed?)
> My Current set up has just been updated and whilst it would be no hassle to to do it all over again, that would take out the learning factor that allows me to understand what is happening and how to manipulate the system. I am NO PROGRAMMER although I did a bit of mainframe machine code manipulation for I/O peripheral testing in the 70's & Z80 assembler / compiler stuff in the early 80's (along with a bit of BASIC, DBAse III programming etc) Gives me a base for understanding but leaves me with a lot of holes in my knowledge.


The dd command, I gave in an earlier post, actually copies the whole drive over to the next drive, I remember trying to install Windows 3.11 on a 40mb hard drive, and failed, also that drive was huge, and had its own green led.


Done_Fishin said:


> I played around with the unallocated partition space on my HDD's today . I have removed the XP Primary Slave disk and replaced it with the 40GB "Clone" that I mentioned earlier . I have created new partitions (active and extended) to fill the drive and make it useful (if not a nightmare that has yet to be seen!:grin: )
> I don't remember at any time doing a format, is this automatic ? I did this by booting intro Ubuntu Feisty Fawn CD at Boot (I am on line - working from the boot CD) then using GpartD to look at the drives. I have noticed that originally we were talking about using
> /dev/hda
> however in GpartD and in your -l example of your SATA disk I have seen
> /dev/sda1
> is this because it's a partition?


Right, the /sda1-4 are all partitions of my hard drive, you may see something similar on your machine?

I'm going to download Ubuntu this afternoon and put it on an old machine, I should be able to help you more that way. I only once used Ubuntu, and I never really liked it much, but it appears to be popular at the moment, also is GpartD part of Ubuntu?
Wait, quick google, okay its similar to fdisk apart from its a GUI based tool, and part of gnome, never seen it before.



Done_Fishin said:


> I note that the cloning of the drive appears to have been successful to the point where I can see the partitions created and browse into the my HOME folder and the downloaded files & programs that I had been playing with. It seems that I don't really have a cloning problem but maybe a grub problem that a bit of playing around with the super grub floppy will help fix.


You managed to copy the drive over? Great. Okay, if you can, swap the disks over, as in the cloned drive becomes the master, and the original the slave, if I'm right, it should boot your new cloned drive when you reboot.

Oh & if you cloned your drive, you don't need to format it.



justo said:


> I meet a lot of interesting people .Like you ,Bartender and Pure Evil Dan. I do a lot of Linux versions out of habit but I look for easy ways to make them work.I never get into the command line thing.I used to try.


ray: 
Command line, I learned at 16, working on Redhat 7 -> 9. I used to do some work for an online company who resold web space, and had ssh access to the box, and did a bit of work for them, the command line I've learned purely out of, I've had to, but once you start its easy. 



justo said:


> But my hopes is that Linux can replace Windows. If it does then it has to be as easy to install and operate for average people.So I load Linux for people who are not very well versed in computer language and rather that fit the Linux to the hardware I find hardware that Linux likes..


I really hope that Linux does not replace Windows, I like windows, but if all the "spam" attacks and hax's go towards Windows, it leaves the rest of us alone, and keeps the people in the Windows forums a job :laugh:


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## justo

> really hope that Linux does not replace Windows, I like windows, but if all the "spam" attacks and hax's go towards Windows, it leaves the rest of us alone, and keeps the people in the Windows forums a job < ---- Well,Dan I suspect someone is burning the midnight oil as we speak plotting to put an AOL dialup ,Norton and Internet Explorer on a Millenium Edition of Linux
__________________ I saw up there where you said easy. You probably overhaul Rollex watches as a hobby too. I wish I could do the command line thing by copy and paste.I miss a lot of important little things like dots and dashes when I have tried..Now I have to go wake my boss up to go do a job.. We are happy you come by to help us with complicated Linux problems. I came back by to see if this would work. >>( dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb (KINDA!) ) This would add a clause to tell the program that you want something to work on the hard drive .


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## Done_Fishin

Well Guys
I Did a new cloning of my Master drive using Ghost 8 ( last time it was Ghost 7.5) and I thought I was going to be happier at the end of it all because Ghost recognized all the different partitions and wrote them to my Clone.
I could see everything from the file browser in Ubuntu and a few other Linux Live CD's that I have handy.

I removed my master drive and replaced it with the CLONE. I got the same grub problem as before. The word grub just seemed to race up and across the screen filling it forever. 
I booted from the floppy that I had made of Super Grub. Went round in a few circles a few times trying to activate the partition and finding it didn't work. I was following gut instinct most of the time and it seemed to work. However I suspected that I was barking up the wrong tree.
I decided to go into Gnu/Linux mode of Super Grub to fix the MBR. I don't remember exactly what I did but I do know that in the end I had fixed the grub and I booted into the CLONE HD.

I think my problems stem from the fact that I made a Primary 1GB swap partition when I installed UBUNTU (Manually) along with Ubuntu in the 2nd partition (10GB). Perhaps had the Ubuntu partition been first it may have worked .. I'll check that out another day on another drive or two. 

Thanks a lot for all your help and hopefully I will also be able give a bit of help too as my knowledge and understanding get better.
btw I had to use the dd command to transfer an image file to a floppy today to create the Super Grub floppy. I found that it worked quite well once I realised that the image file I had downloaded had a different name to the file name given in the instructions on the download site. :laugh:


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## Done_Fishin

I am still having problems with formatting new partitions n the drive. Whilst it allowed me to create new partitions and extended drives with the ext3 mode from the UBUNTU Live boot CD when I came to work with them after booting I found that I ws refused on the grounds of permission. Eventually figured it out that I was supposed to be the Live CD Boot login so I booted up the cd again and removed everything except the swap & First partition.
Booted again and found that they were still shown as before but trying to remove them now worked. I have noted that each time the partitions seem to contain a lost+found folder of about 40% the partition size which again I am refused access to. 
I am currently trying to find a Ubuntu Gparted document that might bring some light to bear on what I am doing wrong.


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## K-B

I don't quite grasp everything, but you might want to format & create your partitions ahead of time with a standalone partitioner, then install Linux (is that what you're trying to do?).
Either google for GParted Live or use one of the partitioners in my signature, like System Rescue CD.


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## Done_Fishin

Hi K-B
I installed Ubuntu on 40GB drive using manual method creating a 1GB SWAP partition and a 10GB primary installation partition. I had also created an extra 10GB partition plus an extended partition with 2 logical drives. All these were allocated with ext3. That was originally done from the UBUNTU lIve CD 6.10

When I eventually got up & running to boot from the HDD I started to notice a SMART warning from BIOS telling me that my disk was going to fail shortly back up etc and replace drive. 
I used a couple of Ghost programs trying to get the failing disk cloned to another disk. I had problems there after with the grub.
I managed to fix the grub today and then did an update to Ubuntu to get it to 7.04
I decided that I wanted to make use of the extra partitions so I thought, since I hadn't seen anything about formatting, that I would format them ready for use.
When I checked the contents of the partitions before formatting I found that I had something like 4GB from the 10GB allocated as a folder "Lost+Found" which required some unknown permission for me to access it. I just got denied access.
I figured that this mihght be due to having created the partitions with another username and password as required by the Live CD. I removed the partitions using the LIVE CD.
When I first rebooted into Ubuntu freom my HDD and then called up Gparted I found that the partitions were still being shown. I removed them again and tried to re-install but each time I got an error either whilst creating teh partition or when I tried to format. that is where I am now.


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## K-B

What was the error? Permissions error?


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## PureEvilDan

That's an odd problem, you have here, at a guess Kyle, it more than likely is permission errors.

If you want via the livecd I can give you a full list of instructions to partition your drive via fdisk & how to format to ext3.

I've never used one of the GUI based, partitioner's, so I can't help you with that.


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## Bartender

Done -
I would suggest doing partitioning work from GPLCD. Download the latest version, burn to a CD (same process as burning a Linux distro) and boot from the CD. GPLCD is the full version of the GParted partitioner on the LiveCD. Many folks have said they get better results with GPLCD. I think the main reason is that it runs entirely from the CD. So does a LiveCD, but for some reason GPLCD works more reliably. Also, you can't do any partitioning work on a mounted partition, so if you use a LiveCD make sure to that.

One thing you could do if you're interested is attach a picture of your partitions. This is possible from GPLCD instructions here but it's easier from a LiveCD because the screenshot application is accessible from the LiveCD more easily. I think "Screenshot" is under "Applications">"Accessories". Just save the screenshot to a thumb drive.

If you think you built it so that your swap is physically first on the HDD, that is kind of backwards. On a drive with nothing else but Linux, hda1 is usually /, and hda5 is usually swap, built as an extended partition.


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## Done_Fishin

Bartender said:


> Done -
> I would suggest doing partitioning work from GPLCD. Download the latest version, burn to a CD (same process as burning a Linux distro) and boot from the CD. GPLCD is the full version of the GParted partitioner on the LiveCD. Many folks have said they get better results with GPLCD. I think the main reason is that it runs entirely from the CD. So does a LiveCD, but for some reason GPLCD works more reliably. Also, you can't do any partitioning work on a mounted partition, so if you use a LiveCD make sure to that.
> 
> One thing you could do if you're interested is attach a picture of your partitions. This is possible from GPLCD instructions here but it's easier from a LiveCD because the screenshot application is accessible from the LiveCD more easily. I think "Screenshot" is under "Applications">"Accessories". Just save the screenshot to a thumb drive.
> 
> If you think you built it so that your swap is physically first on the HDD, that is kind of backwards. On a drive with nothing else but Linux, hda1 is usually /, and hda5 is usually swap, built as an extended partition.


Right now I am not sure what has happened. but using LIVE CD ( 6.10 & 7.04) I now a single disk with unallocated space. The same when I have booted from HDD.
From within windows I see both the swap partition & the primary boot partition plus 27GB of unallocated space (probably where I was trying to delete the partitions, then recreate them before trying to do a format.)

I downloaded sgd_gparted_system_rescue_001.iso and booted frommit but it seemed to be Super grub on CD. I have also downloaded gparted-livecd-0.3.4-6.iso but haven't burnt it to CD yet. Seems like I hd better get myself a new CD case devoted to Linux CD's and Tools! I'll also get the other CD you advised from "http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php"
I realised about the "unmounting" of the partitions when I couldn't do anything with them. It reminded me of Windows compressed disk space from way back.
btw I don't Think I have mt swap & primary partitions back to front. THEY ARE ! but I thought at the start I would use that swap space in the fastest part of the disk. My original aim was to try to install different versions of linux on different partitions and use the same swap partition. Hence I made it 1GB in size. Should I change that? I am working off the clone drive so it won't be too much hassle ( famous last words - look at the mess I am already in!) to swap things around.


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## justo

The reason I have not answered is because I don't know.I always do that the easy way.


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## PureEvilDan

hey.

I personally think Bartender is wrong, with the location of SWAP, and of the / partition. (sorry)
The way I've always done it, and have always seen hard drive partitions on page is:

/dev/hda1 = /boot
/dev/hda2 = SWAP
/dev/hda3 = / (and the rest of the partitions).


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## Done_Fishin

PureEvilDan said:


> hey.
> 
> I personally think Bartender is wrong, with the location of SWAP, and of the / partition. (sorry)
> The way I've always done it, and have always seen hard drive partitions on page is:
> 
> /dev/hda1 = /boot
> /dev/hda2 = SWAP
> /dev/hda3 = / (and the rest of the partitions).


I think that s what Bartender meant, I have it around the other way.
I think I'll start all over again, it's not like I have much to lose. 

edit:- just checked and see that Bartender meant the last partition. That is also how I saw it shown on the LIVE CD PAGE. There also seems to be a NEW Clonezilla LIVE CD. I have downloaded it but have yet to read the instructions.

BTW my first attempt at cloning to a 20GB disk is also working now after using Super Grub. I haven't checked it using GPLCD yet. 

I'm still trying though. 
Is it true that Linux is transferable to other PC's by booting from the hard drive that it was installed on?


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## PureEvilDan

Yus, as long as the system spec is the same, or the kernel has the drivers, you can plug a hard in to any pc & it should work.


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## Bartender

Good day!
PureEvilDan has clearly experimented enuf with Linux so that he's developed a specific choice regarding where to put swap. I haven't. Just noticed that every Linux distro I've installed puts swap out at the end (far right when looking at a GParted map) of the hard drive.

Done, another thing I've noticed is people who are just getting their feet wet tend to let swap questions get under their skin. Then once they've got the PC running the concerns about swap seem to fall away. Front of the drive, back, in the middle, I doubt that it makes much dif to the average user. The general rule of thumb regarding swap size is "2X your RAM". The more RAM you have the less this ROT matters. If you have more than a gig of RAM Linux is going to use swap infrequently. So, yeah, set it at a gig and don't worry about it.

You ask about moving a Linux HDD from one PC to another. I've only done it once, and it was by mistake, but stuck a HDD with Ubuntu Dapper pre-installed into a friend's PC of roughly similar vintage (a couple of years newer than the donor PC) and it ran just fine. I was flabbergasted. Everyone knows you can't do that with Windows and I just assumed the same held true for Linux!


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## Kalim

Oh boy!

Your clone problems look nothing but that the clone program doesn't know where the MBR, bootloader/chainloader, SWAP and Linux partitions are, to look and copy over in similar directory structures. It needs to support Linux to be able to clone it over.

Still, I think you have a GRUB problem, *if* you still get the name blinking *after* loading the cloned drive (done through Edgy Eft terminal commands) which is on separate hard drive from your previous. 

Try removing GRUB and then reinstalling it again. It usually works. There's a bug in GRUB that makes it falter as this you see. Fixed in Feisty Fawn. :wink:


Done_Fishin said:


> Is it true that Linux is transferable to other PC's by booting from the hard drive that it was installed on?


Not really. Mine don't, because the hardware is different. Only if the hardware/drivers are same, then yes it will.

FWIW, SWAP can be wherever you feel it comfortable. Your choice. I have 8 Linux distro's on one drive booting up and the SWAP partition is the last one.


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## Done_Fishin

THanks for the input again, another weekend here for me to lose myself in PC antics.
Found a colleague at work who also has Ubuntu installed and am getting a few pointers from him too. Seems he, like me, just enjoys "wasting" his time on PC's.

btw I was asking about transfer because I have a test bed for PC stuff at work. It;s all spread out onthe bench. It's a POS "point of sale" terminal (I'd call it a cash register) running on a Celeron 566MHz with 128MB memory but the BIOS is preset so I can't boot from CD. However I can boot from floppy & HD. Thought I might get to build a Linux boot HDD so that I can make the system useful when I am doing NON "POS repairs"


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## Done_Fishin

My Conclusions so far.

I can use Ghost to clone a Drive but it then requires Super Grub to fix the grub if I clone *disk to disk*

If I have a Disk where the grub has already been installed and working , Cloning the partitions from the one disk to the other works and boots without problem. Partition Editor recognises the partitions. Useful when keeping a backup of your whole drive on another disk. I'm guessing here but I would suspect Don't mix Linux distro's to different partitions ie put a Mepis partition where the Grub is looking for the Ubuntu partition

Any problems that are present with the file system will be present on the cloned disk. I know that is obvious to the seasoned user but a newb might think he will overcome a problem by cloning.


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## Done_Fishin

I am now seeing my 40GB drive correctly after "cloning" my backup NTFS Backup 10GB partition to it from the 20GB drive that was "fixed" to allow it to boot using Super Grub,
In case you are confused.
I had a 40GB drive in 3 partitions that went haywire and although I could work with it Partition Editor saw it as a single unallocated drive.
The swap & Boot partitions had already been backed up to a 20GB drive where the unallocated space of 10 GB had been partitioned as NTFS to store some XP recovery files. 
As I was fixing and sorting out the problems associated with the 40GB drive I was "cloning" the fixed partition to the 20GB drive. I now decided to clone the NTFS partition to the 40GB drive and it has successfully placed it in the extended partition repairing what I assume was a mbr problem too!
I have yet to try Clonezilla, 
:4-cheers:


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