# BSOD Startup, SATA controller problem?



## ioset (May 29, 2010)

*Vista x64 BSOD Startup, SATA controller problem?*

I bought a used computer that was built about 12 months ago, but was only used for a few months. It worked great for a few days so I wanted to add a sound card and hard drive and now there are problems even when I have removed the sound card and additional hard drive. Here's the system information.
Motherboard: Asus P5KPL-AM SE
CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.5Ghz
Ram: Corsair Twin 2x4090-6400C5C XMS2 DDR2 800 mhz 
Video: MSI NX8600GT T2D256E OC Edition
Hard Disk: SeaGate ST3250310AS 250GB on SATA
DVD: LG DVDRW
Operating System: Windows Vista Ultimate x64 OEM with SP2
I assume it was the original OS installed on the drive.

The components I wanted to add were
Sound Card: M-Audio Audiophile 24/96
Hard Disk: Western Digital WD800JB 80GB on PATA (jumper set to cable select)
I installed the sound card and drivers and it worked fine. The hard disk seemed to work fine even before I switched from a 40 to 80 conductor IDE cable. There are BIOS setting for disabled, compatible or enhanced ATA/IDE configuration, and selecting SATA/PATA only or SATA+PATA.

Other changes/activities that might be relevant, including troubleshooting:
I defraged using MyDefrag v4.2.9 and UltimateDefrag
I flashed my motherboard BIOS to the latest available release from the manufacturer's website.
I tried to move the pagefile from the SATA drive to the PATA drive.
I tried to uninstall the ICH7 IDE controller using device manager.
I tried to ensure no loose connections between the SATA cable and the motherboard or hard disk.
I tried the other SATA slot.
Seatools takes a really long time to run the short drive self test on the SATA drive, but finishes in a normal amount of time on the PATA drive. No problems or warnings indicated.
Chkdsk detects no problems with the SATA drive.
Installed several months worth of recommended windows updates.
Removed all system restore points and disabled it.
Used NT registry optimizer
Used CClean to optimize the registry
No infections detected using the online virus scan at bitdefender.com
No malware detected using MalwareBytes
I disabled most of the unnecessary startup items.
I installed motherboard drivers from the motherboard CD.

Things I have yet to try:
Formatting the drive and reinstalling the OS.
Using any kind of vista repair boot disk or repair install.
Testing the drive in another system (no other system with SATA I can use).
Testing another drive in the system (no other SATA I can use).
Uninstalling any Windows Updates.
Looking at any system logs.

Here are all the signs and symptoms I have noticed.
First thing I noticed was drastic start/stop behavior during web browsing with Chrome. I figured my cache or RAM was overloaded or the PATA hard drive pagefile was bottlenecking my performance. It would be ~5 seconds of freezing alternating with ~5 seconds of no freezing.
I can not always boot normally OR into safe mode. I get stop error 7B (0xFFwhatever, 0x00000034, x00 , x00).
When I can log into my system, there are brief moments (maybe a minute or more) where things are fine, and the rest of the time it alternates between several seconds of frozen and not frozen. The HDD Led indicator is stuck on lit whenever I look at it, but I don't really hear any extra drive activity sound.
If I log in normally, it seems like I can hibernate (i think that's what it is), and it will power up quickly back into my system.
I have only received one stop error F4 besides very regular 7B during startup.
Windows does not boot as quickly as it should.
In safe mode it pauses on the crcsisk.sys driver. (is that cuz it's the last one?)
I have removed the sound card, and disconnected the PATA drive and the DVD drive.
Booting into safe mode works more than it doesn't. Booting normally usually doesn't work.

I'm currently following the steps in BSOD - Posting instructions and I will report the results soon in the next post.

My feeling is that the SATA drive is fine but maybe there is some issue with the motherboard SATA controller or a Vista driver related to it. I don't really know what is the issue here, and that is the main information I would like to know, as well as what my response should be. I can't think of anything else I want to try on my own, so I will follow any suggestions and answer any requests for information or diagnostic results.

Thank you very much.


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## usasma (Apr 11, 2009)

M-Audio has had BSOD problems recently on these forums

When adding the PATA drive, did you do anything to affect the booting of the OS?

Moving the pagefile to the PATA drive will slow you down.

Is the ICH7 (Intelо I/O Controller Hub 7) still installed? Have you checked it in Device Manager?

Do you have Service Pack 2 installed?

250 gB on the SATA drive vs 80 gB on the PATA drive - the test should take longer on the larger drive

Do not disable system restore (it's too late now) - it's a backup mechanism for your system state (particularly the registry) and may be needed. Turn System Restore back on and leave it on. Once things are fixed, make a system restore point and keep it.

Do not use registry cleaners/optimizers - there's lot's of articles explaining why. This is my favorite: http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=61015 Although it's written with XP in mind, it also applies to Vista and 7.

What startup items have you disabled?

Motherboard drivers from the CD are usually outdated - please visit the Asus website and obtain the latest drivers for your mobo from there. In particular, ensure that you have a version of the ASACPI.sys driver (a part of the Asus ATK0110 ACPI utility) that's dated 2009 or later.

Once we get the BSOD Posting stuff we'll be able to get more details.

FWIW - we have seen issues with the P5 series of boards from Asus - both with the ASACPI.sys driver and with memory settings/timings. Please check the settings/timings/voltages at both the Asus website and the Corsair website. Once the settings are "set" don't change them - wait and see what happens.

STOP 0xF4: http://www.carrona.org/bsodindx.html#0x000000F4
STOP 0x7B: http://www.carrona.org/bsodindx.html#0x0000007B

The 7B is an Inaccessible Boot Device, while the F4 is a Critical Object Termination. I'd suggest running Startup Repair as the next step: http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/91467-startup-repair.html


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## Jonathan_King (Apr 3, 2010)

How did you run chksdsk? Be sure you ran *chkdsk /r /f*.

We do need those DMPs though. http://www.techsupportforum.com/f217/blue-screen-of-death-bsod-posting-instructions-452654.html


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## ioset (May 29, 2010)

Usasma:
The M-Audio card is removed, but I have only now just removed the drivers.

I may have inadvertently changed something that affects the booting of the OS, but not because of a drive installation step. I made sure in the BIOS that it boots from the SATA drive. There is no OS on the PATA drive either.

Service Pack 2 is installed.

It is tricky uninstalling the ICH7 driver because I'm not sure the uninstallation finishes on a failed reboot. The idea was that vista will detect and reinstall a correct one. Yes, it is still there in the device manager though. 

Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think the short drive test shouldn't take a really long time on a newer and faster 250GB if everything were functioning properly.

It looks like I can't reenable system restore from safe mode.

Startup items I disabled were: Google Update, AIM, msnmsgr, Adobe ARM, Adobe reader speed launcher, LogitechCommunicationsManager, LogitechQuickcamRibbon, and QuickTime Task.

I'll go to the ASUS website for those drivers after I post the BSOD information from the computer.

Jonathan King:
I think I ran chkdsk /f so I'll schedule a chkdsk /r/f now.
BSOD postings coming shortly! (I hope the 25mb in the folder it wants me to zip isn't a issue . . )


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## ioset (May 29, 2010)

Here is the zipped windows7_vista_jcgriff2 folder. It took around 50 minutes to run this step.

Here is my perfmon /report result. I tried several times.
"An error occurred while trying to generate the report.
The system cannot find the path specified."

I could not uninstall the audio driver in safe mode. It tells me the Installer Service cannot be accessed.

I am looking into running a Startup Repair soon, after I get these Asus drivers.


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## ioset (May 29, 2010)

Hm, the Asus ATK0110 ACPI Vista x64 files are dated 10/31/2006, and I think safe mode is preventing me from running any installer.

I'll just move on to this Startup Repair step.


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

Please note that there are no bsod dmp files in the above zip file.
Please check the batch files directions and rerun.

If the startup repair fails

Do you have the Vista install disk?
I assume that you do if you are doing a repair.
Are you hopelessly wanting to keep the current system installed?
The fact that it was a used computer and the operating system built on 5/15/2009 by someone else.
I am wondering is a fresh install would be more of a help.

I have roughly the same board as does Usasma.
The board can be trick but works pretty well overall if certain steps are taken.

The biggest thing that seems to cause troubles is the Asus Atk ACPI Suite.
I purposely did not install that particular pece of software on this board as a test.
Windows handles that aspect of the power interface.

I have never had trouble in 6-8 months.
Trust me I USE and ABUSE this computer.

Just some thought until you can get the dmp files.


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## ioset (May 29, 2010)

pat mcgroin:
Well, when I get a stop 7B it doesn't say that it is dumping any memory, but when I got the F4 stop it did report memory dumping, but I only saw that screen once.

Should I try to get a 7B that tells me it is dumping memory?

I have a Vista Install disk.

I'll have to reattach the DVD, which I noticed was working slowly also.

I would prefer not to reinstall since I would have to back-up things from a drive that seems to operate at least 10 times slower than it should. And especially since I don't even know what the issue is.

I'm not sure how to get a better ATK ACPI situation. I noticed in my BIOS that I had something like "ACPI 2.0" set to disabled, and some other ACPI options but I have never touched them.

Usasma:
I tried to right click on the install .inf for the ATK0110 ACPI thing but it says "The INF file you selected does not support this method of installation"

________________

I managed to boot normally.
I uninstalled the M-Audio drivers.
I made a perfmon report and am attaching it.
I don't know how to update my ASACPI.sys driver. The one I downloaded is from 2006 and I don't know how to update it anyway.

Before I do a startup repair I'll reboot a couple times to see if I get a 7B stop error that says it is dumping any memory, but I'm pretty sure every time I have seen it, it hasn't said it. How much kernel memory would there be if it doesn't even start up?


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## ioset (May 29, 2010)

Sorry I keep saying so many things in my own thread.

It seems like I have good chances of booting normally after restarting from safe mode.

When vista fails to boot, my 7b stop error does not have any kernel dump information. It lists the stop code, the 4 parameters, and that's it. Should I redoublecheck the dump settings or is this just a BSOD that does not always dump memory information?

Startup Repair coming soon -_- (a slow soon I think)


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

First feel free to add any info possible.
You must remember that we are not there and often times diagnosing something over the phone is extremely difficult.
Often times it is something that you see that you werent looking for that is the key to success.

All bsods should have a dmp log
Can you please look to see what you page file settings are set to.
Please set to windows managed.

Then please click start|right click computer|properties|advanced system settings|advanced tab |startup and recovery settings

settings should be
write an event to system log =yes
auto restart =no
write debugging info select= kernal memory dump
In the drop down dump file it should say ="%SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP
Overwrite any existing file=yes

This is default with the exception of auto restart.
This will make you system stop so that you can read the message.
I am not sure why they turn it on for default. But turn it off.

Please let us know if these were the possible cause of having no log.

Thanks Pat


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## ioset (May 29, 2010)

pat mcgroin:
I think the page file is not set to system managed yet. Sorry about that.

I'm in the middle of the chkdsk /r /f and step 4 is taking a while. 90k out of 245k files to check. I'll let it finish and then I'll change the settings, restart, get BSOD with dump notice, boot into safe mode, then go through expected 50 minutes+ of the BSOD script, then I'll finally post back here. Looks like at least 90-120 minutes later will I be able to post it correctly.

I'm not sure I have noticed anything. I'm going to try to uninstall/disable the ACPI drivers in device manager. Some posts are saying it is not necessary and they are "ancient" drivers.

If it ends up being 2 hours, should I/can I make a new thread with the correct dump attachments?


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

Yes please check the page file settings.
If there is no page file there will be no dmp file.

Please post all responses into this thread so as to keep all of the info here where it can be looked at in a logical manner from start to finish and not confuse everyone.

If you go to the upper left corner of this page and any pagefor that matter.
On the bottom left side of the toolbar you will see a heading UserCP.
That is the user Control Panel. From there you can see if a new response has been made and that is how WE keep track no matter what other posts that we are looking at.


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## ioset (May 29, 2010)

All those pagefile settings and recovery settings are what they should be.

My 0x7B stop error on startup are not writing kernel dump information. I don't think the system has access to my drive or the boot files on every boot. When my system manages to boot, I don't have normal access to my drive. The system works fine for a few seconds while I have normal drive access, and the HDD Led activity light is normal. Then my system hangs when it has no drive access, and that activity light is bright. It seems to do the same thing for access to a CD drive too.

I have checked another time, and each and every setting is set to the suggested values.

I believe I have uninstalled the ATK ACPI driver and told windows to ingnore missing drivers for the hardware. I don't feel like my issue is related 

I ran Startup Recovery one time, and it said it fixed startup and it didn't start up on restart. I'll run it a few times.

Maybe I should flash the BIOS with the oldest version?

I think I get a stop error because of drive access issues. My symptoms seem to be related to drive access issues too.

A solid red HDD Led is not normal drive access, and it corresponds EXACTLY to any application waiting for information off the disk.

I don't think my BSODs will be giving me any dump information at all. Suggestions?


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## usasma (Apr 11, 2009)

Regarding the ATK0110 ACPI Utility driver:
- extract the zip file to a folder (default is "MB WIN7 ATK")
- double click on the folder
- double click on the folder named "64"
- double click on the file named "AsAcpiIns.exe"
That should install the new driver. 

We have seen BSOD issues with the 2004 and the 2005 versions - more so in Win7 than in Vista, but it still does occur in Vista. Vista tends to run well with 2006 and later versions - Win7 needs 2009 or later versions.

***********************************
There is no evidence of the STOP errors in either the MSINFO32 report - or in the Event Viewer System logfiles.

Since there are other entries, it's not a matter of error reporting being turned off.

Just out of curiosity, is the system set to generate mindumps?
$systeminfo.txt shows this for the pagefile:


> Page File: Max Size: 8,364 MB
> Page File: Available: 7,809 MB
> Page File: In Use: 555 MB
> Page File Location(s): C:\pagefile.sys


So, all the symptoms point to a hardware issue (presuming that Startup Repair doesn't fix anything).
And the hard drives have passed the diagnostics. Have you tried new cables for the attached drives?

Your issue seems to be with slow performance also, so I'd run some further diagnostics before presuming it's the motherboard.



> *H/W Diagnostics:*
> Please start by running this bootable hardware diagnostic:
> http://www.carrona.org/memdiag.html (read the details at the link)
> 
> ...


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## ioset (May 29, 2010)

Good morning thanks for your reply.

Startup repair doesn't find anything to fix and the system behaves no differently.

I backed up all my data on the system and it was not as bad as I thought. It would hang for a few seconds (longer), and copy fine for a few seconds (shorter), but it was enough for the copy bars to get through everything.

After backing up my data I figured I can go ahead and try installing Vista. I got pretty impatient after the 'decompressing files' step took a long time to go from 0% to 1%. But what I noticed was that even Vista install seemed to be subject to the same issues as any boot from the hard drive. It took a long time to go from the "your system has not been changed now that you cancelled" message to the initial dialog of the install CD. Thankfully the system seems not to have changed =P

I made a Hitachi Drive Fitness Test boot CD and it behaved strangely. It would not recognize my SATA drive the first time, until I disabled native SATA mode in the BIOS. The short test passed and I went to sleep with the long test running and it was stuck with a full bar on one of the "Analyzing S.M.A.R.T." passes. Also if I go by my feeling, I would say again the behavior on this boot is the same even though the SATA mode is different.

Alright here's an interesting one. I tried to hook up the drive to the other SATA power connector as well as the other data cable. It booted normally twice in a row. I reset because I installed intel chipset drivers. I was excited but this lasted only about 10 minutes.

Based on everything and my not questionable intuition, I am thinking the issue is either the beginning of an increasingly malfunctioning SATA hard drive, or a bad SATA controller or something related. I am leaning toward bad hard drive. If it was a controller issue or cable issue I think I would not have seen that ~10 minute unaffected status. I may be biased since it seems much easier to buy/find another drive to test rather than a SATA controller which I technically don't even have a PCI slot for. So I guess this might just be my hope. It's unfortunate I don't already have another SATA drive available, nor any other systems to test the drive with.

What I was planning on doing was testing the cables and power a little more, as well as taking out the drive just to get a closer look at. If nothing turned out differently (as far as my conclusions about this being only a failing drive issue), I was going to run out and get another drive and install that to become happy.

I tried a windows memtest at boot and found no errors, but I guess that is not reliable. I have booted with Vista install DVD, GParted (for the other drive lol), and the Hitachi DFT and I strongly believe they are similarly afflicted.

The ATK0110 ACPI driver exe driver is probably not giving me any issue. I was reading that it is not even necessary to be installed. I was confused since right click->install on the .inf wasn't working, and the exe file was flashing a black box for me. I guess I have to change some setting about automatically closing console apps. I know I tried running it from the command line before, but I can't remember what it ended up doing, haha. Oh, and the drivers in the vista64 folder are from 2006, but the drivers in the windows7 folder are from 2009. Either way, I'm not concerned about this.

Oh. Further reasons I suspect the drive is bad. The SATA DVD drive seems to be good and behave well even if I switch the data or power cable. It is detected quickly by the BIOS too. Detecting the hard drive on boot up seems to lag for a second each time, EXCEPT (I think) before that 10 minute anomaly period. I think if I can ensure that the DVD drive has no issue at all, then I can rule out any SATA controller related problem. This should not be difficult. It makes sense to me that intermittent drive access during OS boot would result in a "can't access boot media" BSOD that ends up being unable to dump memory anywhere. Also it makes sense to me that OS boot would be one of the places the system would give up being patient enough for a compromised drive, compared to either BIOS SATA detection or after OS boot (safe or normal booting).

Do you recommend all those same tests or can we investigate whether I have a drive or motherboard issue of some kind? I feel pretty sure about concluding it's a bad drive, one that would pass most drive tests at least for now. I'll be using the DVD to troubleshoot/compare and awaiting any further reply.

I really appreciate the attention and time you have given to my postings here, Usasma. The rest too, but mainly you =]


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## usasma (Apr 11, 2009)

Since it's still acting up - even when installing Windows and when trying to boot to the DFT disk - we must assume that it's a hardware issue now. But what piece of hardware is it? That's the challenge now.

The drive passed the SeaTools test - and it's a Seagate drive. IMO that's the definitive test for a hard drive.

But, I'm not a fan of the Windows tests, so I'd suggest making a bootable SeaTools test disk (I've posted links here: http://www.carrona.org/hddiag.html )

And you're right - it's cheaper and easier to replace a SATA drive than to replace the motherboard. Worst case is that you'll have an additional storage drive (if the mobo is bad).

BTW - what is the make and wattage of your power supply?


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## ioset (May 29, 2010)

RaidMax brand, and I think the model is ATX12V. It's 350 watts. Seems low.

I went ahead and ran out and got a new drive and I'll let you know how Vista installs into it. The POST screen went by so fast I didn't even have time to hit the boot menu key haha. Seems like a good sign... either that or my power supply is about to break this new drive x_x

If it is not the drive(s) after all, I will have extra storage so, nothing bad there.

Now that I'm installing Vista on a new drive, what suggestions would you make? Don't disable restore points, don't use registry cleaners/optimizers, anything else? I should play it safe and test out the memory at least.

Hmm this Vista installation seems to be coming along nicely. I'll just wait.
*waits*
It just restarted.

Yeah, the POST procedure seems to look at my drive 2 times. One time when it's detecting a drive on any PATA or SATA channel, and another time to get actual drive information. The old drive would cause [not so] slight POST delays/pauses for each of these 2 times so, hopefully the drive was the only issue. Why would a relatively not old drive start malfunctioning? Did I do something wrong when I drove the computer in a car from where I bought it? Is my PSU going to damage a drive if I use my system too much? Did a driver on the old drive affect the drive itself?

Since it's used I'll see if the seller can eventually get some kind of warranty replacement for me, but I think I was reading this is a little difficult for seagate warranties, but we'll see.

I suppose we can consider this issue SOLVED, even though I don't know the actual root cause of the drive malfunction. Vista has finished installing so I think I have a bit of updating and installing to do. It's nice when the system is responsive the whole time and progress bars are progressing. I'll be sure to update this post if the behavior comes back x_x I'd get a PCI SATA card I guess.

THANKYOU USASMA AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO READ SOME OR ALL THAT STUFF I WROTE~


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## usasma (Apr 11, 2009)

350 watts is very, very low! I've PM'd one of the hardware techs to have a look see...

Newer drives are generally easier on the PSU - so I'd hold off on making any decisions until you've run the system for a while. The PSU won't break the drive - but it'll give odd errors like you've been experiencing.

Components die. Usually they last a while before dying, but sometimes they're dead right out of the box. It's not usually something that you've done.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Hi you will have errors all over the map with such a low psu and your running raid so even more power is being asked for, as a minimum I would look at 650w and a well known brand as the old maxim if you buy cheap you buy dear


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