# Help upgrading PC for gaming.



## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

Hello! I am looking to upgrade my current computer to play games like StarCraft 2 and FFXIV decently well. But I am on a budget, I'm looking to spend as little money as possible, up to a max of ~$200

My current specs are:
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (Dual core processor at 2.2 GHz)
Motherboard: ASUSTek NARRA 1.01 (idk what is important for the motherboard, other than that mine only has 1x PCI-Express slot (not PCI-Express 2.0))'
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT 512MB
RAM: 4 GB (my RAM setup is bad, I know.. it is 2x 512MB, 1x 1GB, and 1x 2GB)
Power Supply: 650W


I did some looking around on NewEgg and found a motherboard that will work with my current Processor and allow for future CPU upgrades while giving me a PCI express 2.0 slot now(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138282).

One of my main questions is: with this PCI Epress 2.0 slot, will my 9800GT run significantly better? If not, I'd buy a Radeon HD 5770 for 140$ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161338). But if the 9800 will run a lot better on 2.0, would a quad-core processor be a better upgrade than the 5770?

Thank you in advance for the help.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Hi, welcome to TSF

The 9800GT will be able to handle both of those games at mid-high settings. An HD5770 would not be much of an upgrade in terms of framerates, but it would allow DirectX 11 mode in games where DX11 is supported. Going from a 512mb card to 1gb will mean you can increase the texture settings and screen resolution, but apart from that it will have no effect on the framerates or performance.

If this is your motherboard - http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00906129&lc=en&cc=de&dlc=&product=3397528#N1144 - then it has one PCIEx16 slot, which is all you need for either the 9800 or 5770.

You won't see any difference between PCIEx16 1.0 and 2.0. The only graphics cards that come close to using the full 1.0 bandwidth are the extreme high end cards, not mid-range cards like the 9800/5770, so you can save some money by sticking with your current PCIE 1.0 motherboard.

A fast 3GHz dual core CPU will allow you to play all current games.


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

So you are saying I should be able to run SC2 at mid-high settings with my current setup?
And I just ran the benchmark for FFXIV and got a 1300 (I'm not sure out of what, but on a forum, it said if I had 1000-1500 I would be running the game at 5 FPS and if I went to a populated zone my computer would explode.)

I would ideally like to be able to run at higher resolutions, since I have a 32 inch 1080p TV I would like to use as my monitor. (I'm currently using my 19 inch monitor @ 1440x900)

I just quit WoW, but when I was playing it, I had to have it on low settings in raids or my framerate dropped to 5-10 FPS.

Also, I had no idea PCI Express vs PCI Express 2.0 didn't matter. I assumed I was running my 9800 in gimped mode by using it on my pci express 1.0 board.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

A 3.0 GHz CPU would be better, but you should be ok with your 2.2 GHz.

Your current graphics card, the 9800GT, is good enough for most modern games, so it's probably the CPU that is holding back the benchmark score. There could be other reasons why you're getting such low framerates, such as high system temperatures, weak PSU 12V amps, faulty or old device drivers, low hard drive space, fragmented hard drive, background programs hogging resources, etc.

My last card was a 512mb 8800GT (basically the same card as yours) which could handle games like Crysis, GTA4, Prototype, Mass Effect 2, Far Cry 2, Borderlands, etc very well (over 40fps, 1440x900, mostly high or very high settings, DX9/10, no lag) combined with a 3.0GHz dual core CPU. When I upgraded to my current 1gb HD4890, I looked at the HD5770 as a possibility, but its small performance increase over the 8800GT didn't justify the cost.

If you want to play at higher resolutions and increase the texture settings, then the 1gb card will be better than 512mb.

To keep within your budget, I think you should stick with your current motherboard and go for the fastest dual core CPU it can handle. Check your mobo manual, but I think it can take a 5600+ This would allow your 9800GT to perform at its best without any bottlenecking. If you need more video memory, then go for a 5-series ATI/AMD card which will be better value for money than the equivalent nvidia card.


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

I do have low HDD space and haven't defragged in a while..

I know you say it might be best to upgrade to a faster dual core, but I would like to plan more for the future, so when I upgrade my CPU, I'd like it to be quad-core. Thats why I found a mobo that will work with my current CPU and would allow for a future upgrade. Basically, I don't want to waste money on a temporary upgrade, and I feel like if I get a faster dual core, it will only be a temporary solution.

So, if my processor needs upgrading, then would you say getting a new mobo/quad core processor would be a significant upgrade?

Also, I didn't realize I had a micro ATX motherboard. I thought I had a mid tower case (its a prebuilt HP I've added on to, if you hadn't noticed) so will I have to buy a micro ATX mobo to replace it if I do upgrade my mobo?

Basically: what would YOU do to upgrade my computer most efficiently, while trying to take into account future upgrades?

again, thank you for your help so far!

EDIT: What if I just bought a 4890 for 212$?


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Not many games or programs support or fully utilize quad. A fast dual core is still best for gaming, but this will of course change in the future. How far into the future is anybody's guess. We've had 64-bit computing for a few years now, but it's still not as well supported as 32-bit, so dual/quad could be a similar situation.

If you go for a fast quad core CPU, it will be a significant improvement over your current 2.2GHz, but so would a fast dual core. Just be aware that only 2 of the 4 cores will be used in many games, so a cheaper, faster dual core might be the better option at the moment. Planning ahead is a good idea, but by the time quads are fully supported in all games, they will have reduced in price and need a new type of motherboard.

First, before spending any money, see if you can get the best out of your current setup. If you're low on hard drive space, heavily fragmented, etc, fixing those problems will increase your gaming performance. See here for suggestions: http://www.techsupportforum.com/f174/is-your-pc-running-slow-247566.html - Once you've done all that and you still want to upgrade, I would go for a fast dual core, then see how you get on with the 9800GT. It's a great graphics card and I never had any trouble with it playing any demanding games. Others might say go for quad core, so hang on for some more replies.

A 1gb 4890 would be much better than a 9800GT, but is only DX10. If you're future-proofing then a DX11 card would be better. Bearing in mind that not many games are DX11, then the 4890 is a good choice. I would still go for a faster CPU though to avoid bottlenecking. If you look at the minimum system requirements for most games they are around the 2.0-2.2GHz mark. The recommended requirements for best performance are usually 2.8-3.0GHz.

Check the measurements of your motherboard and compare them to the one you're thinking of buying to see if it will fit in your case.


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm reading over the thread you linked, and will do that stuff. But I'd like you to see what I'm reading for FFXIV (Final Fantasy 14)

I'm reading this thread(http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1278136129165719075&page=1&howmany=50#msg1278136129165719075), and at one point it links me here (http://videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html) and says if my score is below 1100 then the game will almost certainly not work, my 9800 GT is at 916.

Do you think the 4890 would work well? or can you suggest a dx11 card for around 200$?


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

According to the ffxiv.zam.com article, your Athlon X2 4400+ CPU gets a PassMark score of 1008. The article's author says a CPU score of less than 1500 will make the game unplayable. The Athlon X2 5600+ gets a score of 1537, so you can see how important the CPU is going to be, even more than the graphics card.

All I can say about the 4890 is that I can play any game with it at maximum settings and get decent framerates with no lag at all. My last card, the 8800GT, also performed very well so that's the kind of performance you should be getting with your 9800GT. I think your CPU and other system problems are probably holding it back.

I'm not too familiar with FFXIV, so I've looked at some youtube videos of the game in action. It doesn't look anything special, not very graphically demanding at all compared to other games like Crysis, GTA4 and NFS Shift which your 9800GT can easily handle at high settings, so I don't know how accurate the ffxiv.zam.com article is regarding its benchmark scores and recommendations.

Let us know how you get on cleaning up your hard drives and following the other suggestions from the link in my last reply.

Logging off soon. Back tomorrow. Hang on for replies from the others. Hopefully there will be some people disagreeing with my opinions to give you another viewpoint. :smile:


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm cleaning up my PC while I look at parts.
I found this DX11 card that ranks just above the 4890 on the PassMark site.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125317

and I found this processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103279

I realize this is over my budget, but what do you think?


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

I would go for the 2.9GHz 5600+ CPU, but hold back on upgrading the graphics card until you see if your 9800's performance increases when combined with the new faster CPU.

I've never had any trouble running high-end games on an 8800/9800, so I can't see how FFXIV is going to be so far beyond its capabilities that the game is unplayable. I'm sure a 9800 can handle medium graphics settings at the very least.

As far as I can tell after a quick search, Starcraft 2 and Final Fantasy XIV are DX9/10, they don't use DirectX 11 features. This is the same as the vast majority of current and new games.


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

After looking at the CPU list, I'm sort of afraid of only going with the better dual core. since it is barely over the 1500. I agree that the post on the Allakhazam site must be off though. I can't believe my 9800 won't run it on low. According to the minimum specs for the game, I've got a slightly better processor. And the minimum graphics card is a 9600 I think (or 9400) which I think is significantly worse than a 9800.

Another thing that could be affecting my performance: I have my 19in monitor as my main display and my 32 inch monitor as my second one. Would disabling my 32in while playing games help performance? I've tried it and didn't really notice a difference, but I'd like your advise, as I don't know how that works. I play the games on my 19 incha nd usually have my browser open on my 32.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

A 2.9GHz dual core Athlon 64 X2 CPU is going to be good enough to handle any game. Combined with a 9800GT or better, you should have no problem running any current games at medium-high settings. That's pretty much the same as my last setup (3.0GHz, 8800GT) which could run games far more demanding than SC2 and FFXIV.

A quad core CPU is not going to be any faster, in fact it could be slower if the game doesn't fully utilize all 4 cores. More cores doesn't necessarily mean better performance. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the article that says the game will be unplayable.

I don't think disabling your second monitor will have any effect. I've got a 20" monitor as my main display and a 32" TV secondary, and I get exactly the same performance with the 32" enabled or disabled. Closing down your browser and other programs might help though. Also, try disabling your antivirus while gaming to see if you get better results. When you use your 32" to play games, do you use 1360x768 screen resolution or higher?


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

Ok, I think I'll go ahead and buy the 2.9 GHz processor and see where that gets me. Do you think my current CPU cooler will work with this new processor? 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103279

Because the processor on newegg doesn't come with a CPU cooler.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Yes, you'll also need some new thermal paste. Remove the existing paste from your CPU and heatsink, then apply fresh paste and reassemble the heatsink, fan and CPU.

Arctic Silver 5 - $10 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007


YouTube - applying artic silver


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

K, I've ordered both the CPU and the thermal paste. I'll report back after I get it installed (after it gets here in a few days).

I may check back tonight and let you know how my current system stacks up to FFXIV (open beta starts tonight at 1900 PDT, which I think is 9PM central)


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

If you're testing FFXIV tonight, make sure you've got at least 15% free hard drive space, defrag a couple of times after installing the game, and close down any other programs while playing.

If you get really heavy lag, run *Everest* and leave it open on the desktop at the Computer>Sensor section, then alt-tab out of the game and take a screenshot of the temperatures and voltages so we can see how well your system copes under stress.

Make a note of all the graphics settings you use and what fps you get so you can compare the performance when you get the new CPU. Let us know how it goes.

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These are the official *minimum* system requirements for Final Fantasy XIV. I don't know if they have just been released today to coincide with the open beta or if they have been updated recently.

You won't have any trouble playing the game, although a faster CPU and better graphics card will give better framerates at higher settings.

From http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/#/about/game_info


> Minimum System Requirements
> 
> This game may not run acceptably on PCs that fail to meet the following minimum requirements. Even if your PC meets these requirements, compatibility issues with certain hardware, software, and driver combinations may prevent the game from running acceptably.
> 
> ...


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey, I got a new CPU, and when I was taking my heatsink off the current CPU, the CPU came out with it, and it now stuck to the heatsink.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Hold the CPU and twist the heatsink carefully and they should come apart. You might need to blow a hairdryer on the CPU to heat it up and soften the paste before attempting to remove it. Make sure you don't bend any of the pins if you want to re-use or sell the CPU.


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

ok, done. now I'm about to install this new CPU, but in the videos and guides I watch, the processors don't have this smooth metal top. am I supposed to remove it or something?


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

If your CPU looks like the one in this picture, you don't need to remove anything - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103279


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

Alright, in that video, he puts the AS5 on just a small metal part, do I just put AS5 across the whole thing? (thinly spread, of course)


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

In that video, he's using a different CPU to yours. I couldn't find a video for the Athlon X2 5600+.

Just put a small blob of paste (about the size of a grain of rice) in the middle of the CPU, then attach the heatsink, clip it into place and switch the computer on. Keep the case open until you've confirmed the CPU fan is spinning. 

The video below shows an Athlon X2 being installed. Skip forward to about 4:10 to see the paste being applied and heatsink installed. He uses the spreading method which can be quite messy if you use too much paste, and can sometimes leave air bubbles. It's better to put a tiny blob on the CPU and let the heatsink spread it across the surface, but both methods work. Once you've clipped the heatsink into position, don't remove it or you'll have to clean off the paste and start over again.

YouTube - AMD Athlon II X2 215 Gaming PC Build


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

I got it installed using the spreading method. Sorry, I just now checked back here after getting it installed and making sure it works (it does! I'm on it now) I had a mini freak out because the computer wouldnt post at first, but i realized I didn't put plug back in the heatsink power, and I guess the motherboard checks for that before turning on, lol. I ran the windows experience test or w/e, and my CPU went from a 4.9 to a 6 (and my RAM did too, for some reason...?)


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Yes, the fan power cable needs to be plugged into the motherboard. :smile:

Let us know if your framerates have improved in any games.


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

Okay, so I'm still getting lag in FFXIV, the lag is bad enough to cause mouse lag as well, which makes the game more unplayable than if the frames were just bad.

Well, it isn't unplayable, it just isn't pleasant. 

I ran everest and went to computer > sensor, but it was just a blank screen.
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/488/everestss.jpg

Settings are all as low as they can go, except resolution, which is at 720p


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

If you get low framerates playing in windowed mode, try fullscreen. If they're still low, close down any other programs that are running in the background and try a lower screen resolution.

Your computer exceeds the official minimum requirements for FFXIV, but 'minimum' usually means the game will just about run. You need to meet the 'recommended' requirements for decent framerates, so your next step is probably a graphics card upgrade.

Have you got the latest graphics driver installed?

Try another system monitor if Everest isn't showing any readings.

Do you notice any fps improvements in other games?


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## McKinnon (Aug 31, 2010)

I have to be in windowed mode, because if I alt+tab from full screen, the game errors and tells me something about not having a directx something or other (sorry i cant remember). 

Yes, I have the most recent nVidia drivers.

Nothing else I play has any framerate trouble (except wow, which I not longer have installed, and I don't have a subscription), Starcraft 2 plays fine (on low) until I play against multiple AI, then half an hour into the game, my FPS drops to sometimes less than 1 FPS.

I could try turning up my SC2 graphics and seeing how that does. I'll go turn them up to medium and play a few games and report back.


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