# Are Lloyd's playing favourites in the IT sector?



## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

This is interesting to say the least. Have a look at this. 

According to Computer Weekly, Lloyds has been giving IT jobs to Indian candidates. 

I'm not biased, but what does that mean for the rest of us in the UK? We're more than good enough, but it makes me think, is it because its cheaper to give those jobs to them, or are they more skilled than we are? 

What do you think? :4-dontkno


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Hiya PhoenyxRising

This seems a bit biased does it not??, surely getting a job would depend on your skills not the color of ur skin right? .... reading the article and i see that they recon the Indian workers being brought in are not all up to scratch as far as experience goes so its definitely not that they are better qualified than the UK workers, I think that its all about cheap labor hey? I just find it really unfair when work is so scarce as it is to be giving the jobs that are available to foreigners.


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

hiya mellijelli

In my opinion, its because they are so cheap that they are hired. Instead of looking at skills they look at cost. It is unfair knowing that the UK skills and experience greatly outweigh those of the candidates recruited to these positions, but management is probably more than likely trying to salvage sinking ships, and are willing to do it by any means necessary. 

like i said... who really knows :4-dontkno


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Well the thing with sinking ships Phoenyx is that if they are trying to get them afloat again, poor work performance and lack of efficiency is not going to do it, a business gets its credit from the quality of work given to the public and for a business to run smoothly you need people working for you that actually know what they are doing, or they will just pull the business down more :4-thatsba


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

Thats just it. HOW do you run a company if half the people there don't know wots going on? Its like driving blind really. 

I mean lets say for instance your PC crashes. You don't get a post screen at all. 

You take it to a company thats hired one of them, and they look at you with a vacant expression. ( metaphorically speaking). Hes not going to know where to troubleshoot, or even what to begin with. 

But i have read as well that the UK has the most skilled people around D) maybe we just cost too much.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Exactly so the quality of service a person will be getting is questionable, Id rather fix my pc myself at least that way I know the problem will be sorted, im afraid to let anyone work on my pc as it is :laugh:


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

To be honest ive never been happier that i have my qualifications. It means if something ( heaven forbid) happens to my pc I CAN actually fix it myself. 

It just seems against good business practices to have inexperienced staff. They tend to cost you more in the long run.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Yes of course its going to, but the thing is it's not only going to cost the company but also the people who's pcs they will be working on, if the staff is unskilled they surely gna mess up your pc more than anything else and its fantastic for anyone who can actually work on their own pc at home without having to take it in and have it repaired but where does it leave the other that cant do this for themselves?


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

A friend of mine went through something similar. I'd have had the techy's head on a platter a LONG time ago. He singlehandedly made her buy a new pc because of the damage he caused. 

She took her PC in for a ram change, and thats it. a simple ram change. but the techy in his infinite wisdom damaged either the hardware or something weird. 

In the end, he fiddled in repair consoles that he clearly didnt know how to code in and ended yp destropying the PC. 

I mean a simple RAM change is five minutes work if the modules arent damaged.... It turned into a week long battle. 

Unless ofcourse they rewrote the rule book since the last time i took my exams. grin 

:4-dontkno its stupid sometimes really. I suppose if you take it to a techy for anything. its best you question their knowledge about everything PC. Ask for credentials of you can. youre likely to get a better service from someone qualified than someone that just "knows" about PC's


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

mmmm id flip if that had to happen to me, I cant believe that the entire PC was mucked up for a simple RAM replacement its just to be slotted in  how do they employ these people in the first place??, surely not any person who claims to know how a PC works can be hired to fiddle around on someones PC who will be paying for a professional service in return... seems a bit ridiculous to me


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

Its stupid if you ask me. WHO in their right minds employs a person that isnt qualified to do what they are paid to do. People dont want to mess around with someone that LOOKS like they know wot theyre doing and end up being a fake, they want results.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah and to replace a PC :4-thatsba i mean come on now thats costly, it once again boils down to cheap labour


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

I mean to give credit where its due, not ALL of them are like that. and in the long run when everyones searching for the best bargains whi are ya goin to go to?


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

Computer engineers of India and Pakistan are very genius and intelligent. Thats why they find good jobs in the UK. IT professionals of both the countries are also awesome. Some of the big hackers of the world belong to the above mentioned two countries. I am not favouring hacking but it requires intelligent brain to do it. hehehe


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

Its true tho. lol it takes a special kind of genius to be a hacker. Im not saying everyone is like that, Its just from experience that the conclusion was made. 

All i meant by it was that companies need to seriously check qualifications before hiring people in to specialised areas. 

:grin:


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

yeah companies should must check but less qulified people are more cheap to hire. lolz


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

True, but the amount of money that a company could waste having to fix problems created by those people end up making them not so cheap labour.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

hehehe Iv always wondered what it would be like to be a hacker, but you have to know ur stuff in and out no room for errors :laugh:


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

hahahahha. If anyone wants to be a hacker, he can visit Asia especially India and Pakistan. The reason why companies hire Indians and Pakis is that they are hardworking people by birth. They can work both in airconditioner and in the sahara desert. hehehehehe


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

:laugh: yes im sure how you are brought up would play a huge part in how hard you are willing to work it's all about ethics, I was taught to look after what you have and to work hard for everything I own and want, its a good life lesson to give to any child from small, but honestly the only job id be willing to do in the dessert would be as an archeologist or something like that, although iv done some pretty tough work in my day from packing heavy boxes (back and arm breaking work ), hitting tills from 7am-7pm for minimal wage amongst others, but im not complaining, it all adds to life experience, hard work never killed anyone just makes you stronger and more determined.


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

Its true. long before i got my certification, i worked all sorts of jobs as well. I was also taught you work for what you have. adn nowdays i believe if i get soemthing i havent worked for, then it wasnt worth getting. you appreciate everything a lot more if you work for it. 

lol nope i dont think id like to work in the sahara either.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

LOL I was thinking of raiding tombs and such when I said id do archaeology in the desert actually :laugh: I fancy the idea of finding hidden treasures from way back and then researching the stories behind them, where they come from and how they go there in the first place, but if its building a pyramid in the boiling hot sun with a whip being lashed at my heals if I dont do it right .... HELL NO :grin:


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

hahahahahahha.


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

Na uh. not my idea of fun either. :grin: ooooo Tomb Raider style. As long as nothing jumps out at you.... bears, wolves, bats.. (eeeeeeeew) :grin: im game.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

hehe now you got it yeah lol


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

Hey phoenyx you like tomb raider?? Have you seen the film?


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

hahahahaha. We started from Lloyds, reached hacking and we are now on tomb raider. hehehehe


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

:laugh: talk about side tracking hey?


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

lol I play tomb raider yes. I have seen the movies and own just about every game made  ( ok so i MORE than like tomb raider ) 

HAHAHAHAHAHA still interesting conversation though. either way.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Wow it seems like we have quite a bit in common then PhoenyxRising :smile: well as far as the likes in games go that is hehe


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

I also like computer games alot.. I am crazy about the strategy games.. Like AOE series, stronghold series etc.. What about you two.. Mellijelli and phoenyxrising(Besides tomb raider. lol)..


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

Age of Empires is brilliant yea. I focus a lot on FPS, like tomb raider, Crysis, stuff like that, but also love games like need for speed, resident evil, The lord of the rings, Dungeon Seige, the GTA series.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Well Engineer Babar I also enjoy strategy games, all the Silent Hill games are my favs and the Project Zero series of games were good too, Im busy playing Resident Evil 4, GTA SA was brilliant and i still play it now sometimes, there are so many I could not possibly mention them all :laugh:


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

Lolz the list is endless really. :grin: all hail pc games...... ray:


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

You know Im just thinking the gaming industry must be coining it if you think about it.... what kid in the modern world do you know of who does'nt own a pc, playstation, xbox or ntendo?? I wonder if there is a great demand for Game Developers? Maybe this is an area that graduates could look to go into if they are interested in the IT world, what you think?


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

I think its a good idea that MelliJelli. I mean, people are always buying new games, lol me included, but its not only gaming, where you buy a disc and install it, look at online gaming. like WOW, you buy discs, register, and play it online. so many other areas are affected by that as well.


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

Its a great idea to become a game programmer but unfortunately there is no proper training institute for this. One has to develop this skill him or herself.:4-dontkno
Its all about interest.:laugh:


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Really Engineer Babar, how does one go about gaining these skills by urself?


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

yup mellijelli. hmmm. As far as developing these skills, one has to become a really intense gamer. You should must be excellent in the programming first. Must learn graphics. Start developing small games with the help of your programming skills. Actually mellijelli all the big and huge games are developed by a team of people. Nowadays, games have a big developing team than the films. lolz. So team factor is also important. From which country you are mellijelli and whats your age?


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm sorry, but i might have to disagree on that Engineer babar. 

Have a look at Crysis, The Crytek team alone has literally hundreds of people working together, so teamwork is important, but, you have animators, developers, people actually comming up with ideas for the games marketing, and loads more. 

Most animators have college degrees in animation, developers have software engineering degrees. 

I mean the same code we use to make an application is used in the making of a game, its how its implemented that matters after all. 

So to an extent you dont just need to be familiar with graphics or coding. sure you dont HAVE to have a degree, but id bet in the long run it would be desireable.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Totally, so this is what i have done.... went to do a little research as I like to have all the facts Playstation Blog here is a blog that explains all that it takes to develop a game and let me say there is a lot of funding and effort that it takes to do so, not to mention an army of people employed to do various things, I supposed a person could make a really simple game yourself but if you want something professional Id say leave it to the professionals....


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

hey why not take a look at this...
http://www.fastgraph.com/makegames/chapt1.html


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

@phoenyxrising
All the software engineers are not game programmers and all the game programmers are not software engineers. Simple...
A software engineer designs, builds and organizes software projects. They also elicit software requirements from customers. A video game programmer just programs code for video games. Two completely different things.:grin:


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Thanks for that article Engineer Barbar had a read and found it quite interesting, so its all about the programming mostly I see but, I prefer to be the Artist personally that is my area, I work on photoshop mostly and enjoy desktop design and photo manipulation but its a passion one has to do such things, so its good to find your niche and go for that, this way you will always succeed at what you do.

Reading that article, a game created using clip art..... :laugh: um no thats just not right, come one now haha, take for example games like WoW, now THOSE are proper game avatars the details are amazing compared to a clip art figure there just is no comparison, 10 out of 10 times when i see a game its the graphics that catch my eye first, as an artist it would of course be the first thing I look at, and the game play is also very important.


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=Crysis+Warhead&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=









Crysis and sonic. Two different games on 2 completely different levels.

CompSci the actual requirements of a game developer. 

It states that you need to go to a university and have c++ coding experience as well. now last i checked was that c++ and a number of other languages are taught at university level. 

Many of which good game developers actually have. it depends on the kind of game you want to make i suppose, but the mor popular games have higher requirements. and i can garauntee you that the artists working on the graphics for these games have some formal training as well. 

They arent two completely different things. C++ is a versatile language that can be used broadly. NOT specifically for games OR specifically for applications. you get the degree and then decide wot it is you want to do with it. 

With both sonic AND crysis, coding was used, but the difference was that the coding for crysis was much more complex and intricate. the crysis engine alone was a breakthrough. there are literally hundreds of sandbox applications out there that you can learn to use, and do all the hard work for you so you dont need actual qualifications, but it wont be anything like crysis or even quake.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

PhoenyxRising coding for games can get very complicated of course, one has to know what ur doing and u cant go wrong with a university degree in C++ especially if ur looking to work for big gaming companies like RockStart and Ubisoft, Konami or Capcom there are many, those are just some of my fav creators for games i have already played (SH, Project Zero, GTA SA) and so on.

C++ is very widely used in the software industry, and it is still one of the most popular languages ever created. Some of its application domains include systems software, application software, device drivers, embedded software, high-performance server and client applications, and entertainment software such as video games (my fav) ray: 

Btw PhoenyxRising Sonic I played way back when but even then it was an awsome game they have since improved on it as they do with all games such as the Lara Croft games they just keep getting better and better.


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

:wave:
ok, ok phoenyx wins.. hehehe:grin:
@mellijelli
Oh artist?? you paint??:smile:


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

yayy lol i win :grin: MelliJelli, what kind of art are you into? 

aw sonic was the best. I loved that little hedgehog, but he has evolved yes. Just like lara has.


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

I do paint yes and other art such as drawing with pencil, handcrafts such as jewelery making, but most of my time i spend doing digital art its a great way to express yourself and this i do on photoshop.


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

Yea, I can relate MelliJelli, I love art as well. but i mainly work on photoshop. I have played with fractal art as well, but i prefer photomanipulation. its also very rewarding, and a great way to de stress :grin:


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

oh great phoenyx and mellijelli.. You both are familiar with photoshop.. A friend of mine told me that it is a bit complicated??


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

Photoshop looks complicated, but it really isnt. you just have to get familiar with its tools. Its more advanced than paint, and more preferred than the Gimp. 

I started learning about it a year ago, and i can say with a resonable amount of confidence that im starting to understand it. :grin:


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

No, photoshop is quite easy once u get the hang of it, plus if ur a beginner there are some fantastic photoshop tutorials that you can Google which have taught me some invaluable stuff and there are MANY to choose from, so if you have some spare time and can start by playing around on it and getting the feel of how everything works and where you could easily be pro in just a few months, it helps to have some determination on these kind of things too :wink:


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

Hey that signature of mellijelli are attracting me.. That quotation.. hmmmmm.. You both agree with it?? I am a bit confused..


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

What Pablo Picasso meant Engineer Barber is that everything you can imagine in your mind can become a reality through art, when you create art it comes from ideas formed in your imagination, then you put them down on a canvas or whatever your art form is and make it a reality.


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

What he said was true, and is probably the mantra of every artist i know. we love seeing our dreams put to a medium of some sort, its makes our dreams a reality in a way.


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## Engineer Babar (Jul 17, 2009)

But this rule applies not to everything because everything we imagine doesn't became a reality.. Like I imagined my girlfriend to become only mine and to marry me but till now this is not a reality.. May be not:normal:
But I am trying my best:wink:


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## Mellijelli (Jul 6, 2009)

Ok I maybe did not explain this properly lets see ..... I was referring to expressing what your imagination sees and feels and creates then transferring all of that by doing artwork, therefore you can look at what you have created from your imagination in reality but not physically, rather on a drawing or a picture so it will have "come to life" so to say on a piece of paper or on a desktop wallpaper that you have created. You cannot bring your imagination and wishes to life literally Engineer Babar, these things come naturally with prayer and patience and working hard to achieve the things that will ultimately make you happy in your life, if your girlfriend loves you and you show her that you can look after her, love and cherish her the way she deserves to be, then she will see that for herself and then maybe it will lead to marriage, these things take time and wishing for them wont work, as with everything in life marriage is something that takes commitment from both sides.


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## PhoenyxRising (Jun 17, 2009)

MelliJelli's right. For me, when i look at photos i want to use, i try picture it in my mind. then it begins to fit together like a puzzle. Everything falls into place, and at the end of it all i have something that i can really be proud of. 

Relationships are a little harder than that. you have to work at it, its really really hard, but if you both work together and both have the same goals, things are lot easier. 

Have a good weekend. 

phoenyx


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