# My Choices



## aareleb (Nov 20, 2011)

Hello everyone, I'am looking to go to school and get an education in the IT field. The two options I am looking at are
Going to a school called the Computer Training Academy and taking their Information Technology Computer Systems Engineer track. This would include These Certifications and Pass assurances for each,

COMPTIA A+ Computer Technician - A+
Microsoft Technical Associate - Windows O.S
Microsoft Technical Associate -Networking
Microsoft Technical Associate - Security Admin
Microsoft Technical Associate - server Administration
Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator - MCSE
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer - MCSE
12-18 months $13,400

The second option is going to ITT Tech, network Systems Administration Associates Degree program.
This would not give me the Certifications but would give me the education to obtain the certifications, and a Degree.
30 months $47,000

The main question that I have is the Degree or the Certifications worth more in getting a carer? And the time and money it would take to get them?


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## bry623 (Apr 8, 2002)

The certificates are probably worth more than the associates degree.


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

IMO...the cert path is not the ideal way to go...this is because in the IT industry, some companies will require you to have certs from from CompTia while other will require you to have all MS certs and other will require Cisco certs. You'll spend a life time acquiring certs for no other reason then to have them.

The Degree path is the best option as it will open more doors (opportunities) for jobs and advancements with in the job. Especially with a Bachelors Degree in any IT field. An Associates Degree in any IT field will get you in the door (entry level) of the IT industry. 

The problem with certs or Degrees....is most companies will only look at the certs or Degree of the applicant with out really testing them out on what the applicant really knows or should know to qualify for that position. I've seen it too many times that you have a person in a job with the certs or a degree and don't know there way around a PC or a network. I see it every day... it's just absurd.


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## econner (May 27, 2014)

Ill agree with bassfisher there, the degree path is the best option you have and as he stated there are so many certifications out there that you could spend the rest of your life getting them and end up not applying but a handful of the knowledge you gained from them. I would look into a degree program that provides you with Microsoft training and provides vouchers to take the certification exams as part of the expense of the degree. The CompTia A+ and Network + are handy to have and I know a few entry level positions that require these. Others do not. You will more than likely have to take these courses to achieve your degree anyway, so the A+ and Network + should go hand in hand with the degree program in the first place. 

--Eddie Conner--
A.A.S In Computer Sciences Network Administration
MCITP, MCSE, MCTS, CompTia A+ and Network +
aka The Tech Support Guy In KY


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## aareleb (Nov 20, 2011)

Thank you all for your response. The degree program I am looking into does not offer any help with getting the A+ or any other certs. Its just a really tough decision for me to make I know that I want to work in the IT field and networks seem to be a good place to start, and both the degree and certs give me the knowledge I need/want. But after seeing your posts I am thinking that the Degree program is the best and try and get my A+, Network + while I get my degree. how do I get vouchers for the cert test?

Aaron


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Speaking as someone with 16 years of experience in the IT field, I don't think you should do either program. Yes, degrees and certifications CAN help you get a job. But the Microsoft certifications listed in the CTA program are NOT relevant for someone just getting into IT. And the ITT program is far, far too expensive for an associates degree. For that amount of money, you could afford to get a Bachelors degree at a state college.

So what do I recommend instead? I recommend that you begin to pursue entry-level certifications, such as the A+, Network+, and Microsoft client certifications. You don't need a structured training program for these certifications. All you need is a good study guide, some old computer equipment, and maybe a practice exam to see if you're ready for the real thing. 

While pursuing these certifications, I would recommend that you get an entry-level IT job. Not after you're certified - NOW. Experience trumps both certifications and degrees, and every day that you're not employed in an IT job - any IT job - is one less day of experience you're getting. 

Most entry-level jobs don't require certifications. The ones that do typically require only the A+. Also, keep in mind that entry-level jobs don't require experience. By definition, an entry-level job is a job in which you ENTER the career field. Thus, no experience is required. You're not expected to be an expert.

Don't misunderstand me - degrees are great... they'll open up opportunities to you _later in your career_, typically for senior or supervisory roles. But degrees aren't going to help you early in your IT career for the same reason that fry cooks at McDonalds don't have degrees - they're not necessary to do entry-level tech work. And you lack the experience to get a job doing anything beyond entry-level - no company in their right mind is going to hire someone without ANY IT experience to do high-level tech work.

After you get some experience, you can begin to pursue certifications that are relevant to what you have experience doing. Beyond entry-level, certifications are designed to show an employer what you ALREADY have experience doing... NOT what you WANT to be doing. Bassfisher is right in that there are a TON of degreed and certified individuals that don't know what the heck they're doing... and employers know this. As a result, employers have stopped hiring on the basis of certifications and degrees alone. Instead, experience trumps all. Certifications and degrees simply give you an advantage over your competition (assuming experience levels are roughly equal).

Hope this helps give you some perspective from the other side of the interview table.


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## aareleb (Nov 20, 2011)

The issue I have with getting a job as a entry level IT tech is the money. I will be working 40+ hours a week while going to ITT I do support 3 teenagers and my wife. They would have to pay me a minimum of $18.00 an hour for me to put a roof over our heads and food on the table, and from what I have seen the most I could get would be $10.00 an hour at entry level with no degree or certs. And I do need structured training because at home while trying to study for the COMPTIA A+ exams I have 3 kids and a wife distracting me every 10 to 15 min. I have tried it off and on for at least 4 years using Mike Meyers and Professormessor's site, for me it is difficult to say the least!
My hopes are to start looking for an entry level position or some type of apprenticeship once im half way done with school and have atleast my A+ cert. I'm not looking to get rich! Just want to make a good living doing what I love to do, work on and with computers.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

aareleb said:


> The issue I have with getting a job as a entry level IT tech is the money. I will be working 40+ hours a week while going to ITT I do support 3 teenagers and my wife. They would have to pay me a minimum of $18.00 an hour for me to put a roof over our heads and food on the table, and from what I have seen the most I could get would be $10.00 an hour at entry level with no degree or certs. And I do need structured training because at home while trying to study for the COMPTIA A+ exams I have 3 kids and a wife distracting me every 10 to 15 min. I have tried it off and on for at least 4 years using Mike Meyers and Professormessor's site, for me it is difficult to say the least!
> My hopes are to start looking for an entry level position or some type of apprenticeship once im half way done with school and have atleast my A+ cert. I'm not looking to get rich! Just want to make a good living doing what I love to do, work on and with computers.


 Here's the problem: with certifications and a degree, you qualify for the same entry-level jobs as you do without certifications and a degree. Anything beyond entry-level is going to require experience (or a relative who is an IT manager and is willing to take a chance on you), especially in an economy with high unemployment and a _lot_ of hungry techs out there.

See, here's what happened... back in the 90s, you could get a bunch of certifications or an IT degree, and companies would hire you based largely (if not solely) on those qualifications. Those companies quickly discovered that many of those certified techs couldn't actually DO the jobs... MCSEs who couldn't format a hard disk or install Windows from scratch were commonplace. By the early-to-mid 2000s, companies had learned their lesson after getting burned one too many times. They stopped hiring people with a bunch of letters after their name and started hiring people who have actually DONE the job.

It is absolutely possible to make more than $10/hr as an entry-level tech. I started at $11/hr 16 years ago. I don't know whether you can make $18/hr or not (I'm not doubtful, I honestly don't know exactly what entry-level jobs pay these days)... but if I had to guess, I'd say it would likely be somewhere between $11 and $18. 

Here's the good news: you won't be making entry-level wages forever. After you get the experience that all employers desire, you'll be able to leverage that experience into better roles... making better salaries. I don't want to give you false expectations, but I wasn't making $11/hr for very long.

I don't want to discourage you. However, I REALLY don't want you to go $13K to $47K in debt only to find out that your job prospects haven't changed significantly. I've encountered others who have tried to go down that path. Before throwing a bunch of money at something that is being advertised as a "magic IT career cure-all", _please_ do your research. Ask other _experienced_ techs if what I'm saying is accurate. Better yet, check job listings and verify that the better-paying roles require experience, not simply certifications or degrees in lieu of experience.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

No one these days gets a job as a network admin or systems engineer without having extensive experience regardless of their qualifications.

Listen to Boson Michael he knows what he is talking about.

Until Michael offered me similar words of advice I was like you looking for the job I wanted to do with no luck and I was 8 years into my search.

Start at the bottom and work your way up it's really your only choice.


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## aareleb (Nov 20, 2011)

Thank you guys for your input. I have decided to go to ITT and get my A+, network+ certs and maybe other certs as well while studying for my degree. While I'am going to school I will be actively looking for work in the IT field even if part time. And still working my regular full time job. greenbrucelee let me ask you this? When you finally got a job in the IT field how much was you starting pay? And what was your IT education at that point?


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

you dont need to go to a school or pay a training provider to do any of those certs.

I did my A+,Network + and MCDST ny getting the booksm studying and practicing the concepts involved and then doing a few practice exams then I paid and booked the real exams and took them.

When I got my job my starting wage was about £18000 I had some IT qulaifications such as a GNVQ which is like what you would do at a community college in the US and then I had a HND which is like the equivalent of an associates degree I believe then I had my A+,N+ and MCDST.

But if I had known what Michael told me, years ago then I could have gotten the job without any of it or just the GNVQ anyway.

Just a heads up going for certs like the MCSE without the proper on the job experience could make your job search even harder. Someone who goes for the MCSE should have at least 12-18 months experience as a systems engineer or similar job role.


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## Markos4 (Mar 2, 2014)

Id like to say that what im doing is studying all year long.im planning on getting the network+ and security+ which im already studying for it and then go to get a bachelor's degree on computer science


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## jacal78 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bason Michael, well said sir from an IT stand of view...As an IT Professional I have experienced the same kind of situation about 5-6 years ago. I had a Bachelors Degree and no one wanted me or my knowledge of Network Engineer/Admin. This was on and on for 4 years straight. Then one day my opportunity came along and ever since I have been an IT Network/Systems Manager and I love it because this is what I do. I am a fast learner and BM was right that people need experience in IT related industry in order to understand the next level...So, starting small is always a plus sign....

Again, BM well said....


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks. Yeah, degrees aren't a "golden ticket" into IT, and people need to understand that before chaining themselves to a pile of debt. Degrees are great - I've got a BS in Chemistry. But they're not going to help someone get an entry-level IT job because entry-level IT jobs don't require degrees. If anything, they can make things MORE difficult for you, like GBL said.

Now that you've got a bit of experience, Jacal, you can combine the knowledge you have with the experience you've gained and rise relatively quickly. It's certainly not a get-rich-quick sort of career... but am I right in telling aareleb that you won't stay at the bottom forever?


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