# It's all Microsoft's fault



## jazzwineman (Nov 5, 2012)

Corday said:


> https://www.groovypost.com/howto/fix-windows-10-wont-boot-startup-repair-bootrec/ The stability of an OS is in direct proportion to the stability of the user.


WRONG about the stability of the user.


This is a Microsoft product and they create their own problems. Windows 10 is like Windows Millennium- you can do everything 100% right and for no reason the OS just falls apart. When Windows gets away from DOS and all these legacy issues and use Linux as an under-base, watch the problems disappear.


A quick case for myself and i have been in the business for more than 30 years and certified in everything but Autodesk and currently manage some 8500 computers. 

I took a new laptop. It was pre-loaded. I did not want to advertising junk embedded- so i reload from scratch Win 10. No problems in any way with drivers- nothing at all.The only other things on the computer was Firefox, Symantec Endpoint, Java, Office 2013 (custom install), flash, adobe reader and winrar, plus whatever updates that were current.


All of a sudden on a boot one morning the track-pad would not work. Nothing i could do would get it to work. I attached a usb mouse and was able to download the actual software for the named trackpad and it worked. Ont he next reboot, I had to go point the trackpad to the .inf file and it worked. On the next reboot, the trackpad did not work and reloading the .inf file did not solve the problem. To top that I tried 6 different usb mouses, several wireless mice and several bluetooth devices and no matter what there was going to be no mouse. I adjusted the area of drivers/ filters, ect in the registry- still nothing and so it took a complete reload of the system to get a mouse to work.


Why should anyone tolerate such nonsense? It is the same philosophy about Security Essentials that I would never use- I am going to use Microsoft software to solve problems created by Microsoft software?????




Here is why III would never ever suggest windows 10 and tell everyone to get a MAC:


Windows 7 has Aero. What was the most requested feature in the testing phase of Win10? Aero. What was left out. Aero.
Windows 7 respects my privacy. My life is none of your business. All that telemetry junk can be removed from Windows 7. Even Windows 8.1 had more respect for me than Windows 10 does. I shouldn't have to hack my router to get back what should have never been taken to begin with.
Windows 7 has a working F8 key. Seriously, whoever decided to disable that needs to be smacked hard in the head every single day for the rest of his life. Of all the dumb decisions in Windows 8 and beyond, this is by trillions of miles the absolute dumbest. I asked for F8 to return. Ignored. Just like the plethora of those Aero requests. I shouldn't have to use a hack to repair an unbootable Windows. Even OS X has pre-boot repair keys.
Windows 7 has a logical, hierarchy based, customizable start menu just like Window Vista, XP, 2000, NT, ME, 98, and 95. I shouldn't have to download Classic Shell just to get an easy to use start menu.
Windows 8 and earlier is owned, not licensed.
Windows 8 and earlier does not require me to waive my right to sue Microsoft.
Windows 7 and earlier properly calls programs 'programs' and not 'apps'.
Windows 8 and earlier does not block programs that are considered security risks. I downloaded a driver from HP website and Windows 10 blocked it with no instructions on how to unblock it. This is all well and good, but you need to provide a clear set of instructions on how to override the false positive.
Windows 7 and earlier doesn't force the app store on you like mad. Why did Microsoft take out the group policy setting that allows businesses to disable the app store?
Windows 8 and earlier do not have compatibility problems. Seriously, why do so many old programs that worked fine on Vista suddenly no longer work?
Windows 8 and earlier let you defer updates. I have currently found 24 updates that cause the client restore of Windows Server Essentials to crash. If security updates ruin Microsoft's own software, what about other programs? Businesses should not have to pay for an Enterprise license to block updates that interfere with their essential programs.
Did I mention Windows 8 and later don't have F8 enable by default?
Windows 7 is smart enough to realize that different tools have different purposes. A hammer is meant to put a screw in. A tablet is not a laptop/desktop. OS X and iOS are not one-in-the-same, because Apple knows that a tablet OS should be completely distinct from the mobile OS. By combining the two, you didn't make a better you, you made a far worse one.
 I am not blind, Windows 10 is not all bad. The multiple desktop feature is nice. And so is DirectX 12. But those are the only reasonable reasons to upgrade. But some of my reasons above are forgivable, some -- specifically #3, #5, #6, #8, and #11 -- are unforgivable sins.



TBB


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

*Re: Windows 10 Cannot Repair Itself*

jazzwineman you do realize no one here works for MS and also the use of large fonts is poor etiquette as it is considered shouting, we are here to help others in our spare time and do so in a collegial fashion, you may not agree with someones signature as is your right, but please do not use it for your own purpose of showing displeasure with anything MS has or has not done they have their own forums and you may which to raise your issues with them there.


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## jazzwineman (Nov 5, 2012)

*Re: Windows 10 Cannot Repair Itself*



joeten said:


> jazzwineman you do realize no one here works for MS and also the use of large fonts is poor etiquette as it is considered shouting, we are here to help others in our spare time and do so in a collegial fashion, you may not agree with someones signature as is your right, but please do not use it for your own purpose of showing displeasure with anything MS has or has not done they have their own forums and you may which to raise your issues with them there.


 Your talking down to me is accomplishing nothing and shows your bad faith as well. I assume you have gone to the Trump school of discussions.


I am well aware of what and how I wrote the post and managing as many computers as I do, I am more than conscious of all the self-created user problems. However to put the blame on users for what in many cases is a Microsoft issue is not fair and does not adequately or honestly discuss the problems that are created by their software. It is why they very rarely ever show up at vendor meetings or seminars as they cannot take the abuse heaped on them by professionals in the business.


It is also a source of problems that we are trying to address in this forum and people do not and should not have to be taking time to reload systems, lose time and information due to built in OS problems. Your defense of Microsoft of which you list with your aviatar is really over board. Perhaps I am different in that I have many a bundle of money due to Microsoft problems, but I really enjoy making money for positive things and not the morgue of computers that Microsoft creates for us to do autopsies on.


TBB


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

You may feel I talked down to you that is not the case I pointed out some forum etiquette and you taking something and using it to further your own unhappiness about how MS does things, it very easy for you to avoid that use linux, I have no dog in your fight with MS. Now be a nice person and abide by the forum rules you can find them here https://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/misc.php?do=sknetwork&page=rules
If you don't want to abide by them you are welcome to take your personal issues with MS directly to them we have no interest in arguing the rights or wrongs you feel about them that is your personal gripe as already stated we don't work for them.


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## jazzwineman (Nov 5, 2012)

joeten said:


> You may feel I talked down to you that is not the case I pointed out some forum etiquette and you taking something and using it to further your own unhappiness about how MS does things, it very easy for you to avoid that use linux, I have no dog in your fight with MS. Now be a nice person and abide by the forum rules you can find them here https://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/misc.php?do=sknetwork&page=rules
> If you don't want to abide by them you are welcome to take your personal issues with MS directly to them we have no interest in arguing the rights or wrongs you feel about them that is your personal gripe as already stated we don't work for them.


 I would be interested as to how many computers you manage in your field. I am at about 8500 and so I speak with some authority. The companies, due to the strong arm tactics of Gates, Microsoft, as well as Intel have fostered a less than adequate performing system on mainly Americans and therefore many have to rely on Microsoft. Users create major headaches and with an inadequate OS it makes it even more difficult. If Microsoft was a car manufacturer, a legal, accounting or medical office they would have lost any licenses to practice and would have been sued into oblivion. Tell me- did Trump and Putin teach you to shut down dissent?



TBB


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Well here is the thing I am not in the USA so neither of the people you mention have 1 iota of interest to me, no one is shouting you down if you check all my posts have been both civil and in a font which shows a conversational tone. It also makes no difference as to the numbers of computers as again this is your personal gripe, sure MS do things that are not liked and in some cases appear backwards sadly like it or not they will continue to do so they own the rights to the os so have the say so again take your issues directly to them having basically a rant here is not changing anything.
Now at that I am for now out of this thread.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

I am in total agreement with Corday's signature, after seeing and hearing things that people do with their computers, especially when you question their actions and they pull the "my PC my right" card to justify their deeds. We see it here all the time, members ignoring wise counsel and doing whatever they want and then expect assistance that is in line with their misinformed actions and disregard any that isn't. Sure, not every fault is the user's, but in significantly many cases it is. Nothing is perfect, and Windows 10 sure isn't, neither is Linux nor MAC OS, and they are all viable alternatives to each other, but none of them is good enough if the user is the problem.


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

Let me give some background so that we're on the same page..

My team and I mange the entire End user compute for 5 Fortune 100 computers.. + 7 others 3 of which are in the Fortune 500...

A single client of mine has more than 44000 endpoints.. In total, we manage about 200000+ endpoints.... Choice of OS on Desktops and laptops, Windows 10  we have a penetration of over 80%..

We also manage over half a million servers physical, virtual, hybrid and over cloud (AWS, Azure bluemix etc...)

We only give Macs to folks who work in Graphic design...



> WRONG about the stability of the user.


Nope, we're right.. Most Mods in the forum and tech enthusiasts agree... People who complain will complain why the Earth has 78% Nitrogen and less of Oxygen, they're beyond help..

I'm just going to move past the entire black bold rant... You had to reimage to fix a mouse issue, dude...that's down right embarrassing given your "fancy" resume.... You should have posted in these forums, we'd have fixed it for you and maybe the world would move on with one less black bold rant..



> Why should anyone tolerate such nonsense? It is the same philosophy about Security Essentials that I would never use- I am going to use Microsoft software to solve problems created by Microsoft software?????


Don't... Use Linux or Mac...Duh !! were you planning to install Redhat packages to fix a Microsoft windows issue ? Last I checked Security Essentials is a software that protects against virus/Malware etc.. doesn't fix Microsoft software problems.. But we'll be polite and take your word for it..



> Here is why III would never ever suggest windows 10 and tell everyone to get a MAC:


tch tch tch... You know if MAC was perfect, they wouldn't require service centers or Support centers right ?



> Windows 7 has Aero. What was the most requested feature in the testing phase of Win10? Aero. What was left out. Aero.


Cause it was a resource hog, Desktop Windows manager or dwm is more light weight



> Windows 7 respects my privacy. My life is none of your business. All that telemetry junk can be removed from Windows 7. Even Windows 8.1 had more respect for me than Windows 10 does. I shouldn't have to hack my router to get back what should have never been taken to begin with.


It was very simple in Win 7, I agree it's a lot more complex in Win 10, however there is no need to hack your router :S You're misinformed..Well, you know the browsers automatically report all your stuff, google can read all your emails pretty much all devices collect and report back data... That's the way the world has changed into, you don't want it, don't use it.. or figure out a way to circumvent it.. That's not a Microsoft thing, that's an industry thing..



> Windows 7 has a working F8 key. Seriously, whoever decided to disable that needs to be smacked hard in the head every single day for the rest of his life. Of all the dumb decisions in Windows 8 and beyond, this is by trillions of miles the absolute dumbest. I asked for F8 to return. Ignored. Just like the plethora of those Aero requests. I shouldn't have to use a hack to repair an unbootable Windows. Even OS X has pre-boot repair keys.


You asked and MS ignored !!! Really ?
What hack ? DISM is better, Windows reset and restore are now built into the OS.. If the OS crashes, then the Advanced boot menu kicks in.. Or you can SHIFT Restart Windows to get the advanced boot menu..If you complain that you don't have a USB flash disk with Windows OS and all necessary utils, don't call yourself a sys admin or whatever it is you call yourself 



> Windows 7 has a logical, hierarchy based, customizable start menu just like Window Vista, XP, 2000, NT, ME, 98, and 95. I shouldn't have to download Classic Shell just to get an easy to use start menu.


Ahem.. You know if you use Classical theme you can't use Aero.. They're 2 different engines..



> Windows 8 and earlier is owned, not licensed.


Not sure what you're trying to say, some links would be helpful..If this is your perception, you can ignore I asked..



> Windows 8 and earlier does not require me to waive my right to sue Microsoft.


You can settle in small claims, you can't participate in a class action... Reasonable.. Again, don't like it, don't use it..

I'll quote spunk here, no one put a gun to your head..



> Windows 7 and earlier properly calls programs 'programs' and not 'apps'.


And that affects functionality how ? I didn't know semantics were so important in computer issues..



> Windows 8 and earlier does not block programs that are considered security risks. I downloaded a driver from HP website and Windows 10 blocked it with no instructions on how to unblock it. This is all well and good, but you need to provide a clear set of instructions on how to override the false positive.


And you don't like that.. The number of folks who come to the forums downloading bad drivers and software, sorry Apps  crashing their PCs are so high.... I appreciate the proactive behavior in restricting unsigned drivers, wanna complain, talk to HP, they probably did not conform to MS standards...



> Windows 7 and earlier doesn't force the app store on you like mad. Why did Microsoft take out the group policy setting that allows businesses to disable the app store?


Google has their Appstore, Amazon has their Appstore, Apple has their Store, can't blame MS for having their own Store.. That's again an industry thing so Apps are more regulated and we can leave behind some of the "care" and "easy" software.. Rich shout out to you here on the easy/care apps.. 



> Windows 8 and earlier do not have compatibility problems. Seriously, why do so many old programs that worked fine on Vista suddenly no longer work?


lol.. Compatibility mode was introduced in Win 7.. :S... And the reason for the compatibility issues was because of change in the architecture from X86 and X64.. Windows 10 actually handles some of the old games/apps well.. But again, we'll be polite and take your word for it..



> Windows 8 and earlier let you defer updates. I have currently found 24 updates that cause the client restore of Windows Server Essentials to crash. If security updates ruin Microsoft's own software, what about other programs? Businesses should not have to pay for an Enterprise license to block updates that interfere with their essential programs.


Business/Enterprise.. You should look up what wsus is... Enterprise infrastrucutre are 'Managed' we use a Distribution or Orchestrator to push the updates, that is how we control the updates and their distribution.. I'm surprised you don't know about this, considering the number of endpoints you support... What enterprise license ?



> Did I mention Windows 8 and later don't have F8 enable by default?


Yeah, half way through the Rant, I think I answered it though...



> Windows 7 is smart enough to realize that different tools have different purposes. A hammer is meant to put a screw in. A tablet is not a laptop/desktop. OS X and iOS are not one-in-the-same, because Apple knows that a tablet OS should be completely distinct from the mobile OS. By combining the two, you didn't make a better you, you made a far worse one.


Windows 7 realized that ? nice !
That's your opinion... We'll be polite and...You know the rest by now 
I love the cross device capability...



> I am not blind, Windows 10 is not all bad.


First part, can't be too sure, you used Bold font but I'm Not a Dr. .... Second part, Yeah, we know that..



> The multiple desktop feature is nice. And so is DirectX 12. But those are the only reasonable reasons to upgrade. But some of my reasons above are forgivable, some -- specifically #3, #5, #6, #8, and #11 -- are unforgivable sins.


Those are the only reasons to upgrade ???.... Again, we'll be polite..

MS can stop making Desktop OS and it wouldn't even make a small scratch in their earnings.. I'm just happy that they're making them 

Don't like it, thendon't use it.. Use Mac or Linux, we have separate sections for them... I'll meet you in the Linux one in case you have 10 commandments for Linux as well.. Mac, I don't care a lot about it, don't use it, never felt the need so we won't meet there..

These are my personal answers, and pardon any rude comments, they're just a taste of your own medicine when you rant on a public forum..


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## Confounded Also (Aug 19, 2015)

Nearly all failures are caused by people. Either bad users, bad designers, bad manufacturers or bad technical writers who don't use, design, make or explain things right.,


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

Confounded Also said:


> Nearly all failures are caused by people. Either bad users, bad designers, bad manufacturers or bad technical writers who don't use, design, make or explain things right.,


Emphasis on bad *users. *If I created a hammer, then someone wants to use its handle to drive nails with, then rages on and laments that it isn't working properly, who's fault is it?


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## jazzwineman (Nov 5, 2012)

Then I am curious, since you have this great knowledge- what would have been the "mouse fix" that you would think I would have not already done?


If you want to be bought and sold on Win 10- go to it. hen it falls apart and you get blamed- have fun- but dare not blame Microsoft. I am sure they pay all their shills well or have threatened someone else to egt their way.
But back to this mouse fix and I used customer service support or someone else's support in 11 documented cases in more since 1999- when I started keeping records and with the exception of an ISP have access to something on their end that I do not- all were duds including one horrendous waste of time with Microsoft support on behalf of a friend.


TBB


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## jazzwineman (Nov 5, 2012)

and by the way- Yawn!


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## jazzwineman (Nov 5, 2012)

and since Windows GUI was an outright theft of Mac- you are funny. Of course you can make much more money cleaning up all the related problems, hacks, virus ect on Windows, that by in large, are not an issue on Mac.Funny guy!


TBB


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

jazzwineman said:


> Then I am curious, since you have this great knowledge- what would have been the "mouse fix" that you would think I would have not already done?


I don't claim I have great knowledge, just pointing out that you don't... And there are many points of failure when fixing a mouse or a touchpad.. The talent of the Admin is using proper methods of isolating the points and reaching to the resolution with logical reasoning and using a proper RCA method..



> If you want to be bought and sold on Win 10- go to it. hen it falls apart and you get blamed- have fun- but dare not blame Microsoft.


Windows by itself does not fall apart.... If you're an IT Admin, your job is to fix it..Applications/OS/Programs will be buggy, you can't test all aspects of an application for bugs, some or a lot will creep in.....If Windows were perfect, a lot of us wouldn't have jobs..



> I am sure they pay all their shills well or have threatened someone else to egt their way.


There you go ranting again with conjecture...



> But back to this mouse fix and I used customer service support or someone else's support in 11 documented cases in more since 1999- when I started keeping records and with the exception of an ISP have access to something on their end that I do not- all were duds including one horrendous waste of time with Microsoft support on behalf of a friend.


I'm not even able to make sense of what you're saying... State your issue clearly and the steps performed and we'll tell you what to do...
MS scope is limited to the OS only.. Period ! drivers, peripherals, 3rd party apps are all best effort support... They're under no obligation to resolve them unless it's absolutely certain that it's an OS related issue..



> and since Windows GUI was an outright theft of Mac- you are funny. Of course you can make much more money cleaning up all the related problems, hacks, virus ect on Windows, that by in large, are not an issue on Mac.Funny guy!


Don't care.. I still like it.. Yes, I like the money...
Ok, then go with Mac.... No one's stopping you..


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

I hope you're not insinuating that Mac OS is impervious to infections.


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## Confounded Also (Aug 19, 2015)

Stancestans said:


> Emphasis on bad *users. *If I created a hammer, then someone wants to use its handle to drive nails with, then rages on and laments that it isn't working properly, *who's fault is it?*


The designer for not making the device more universal and the technical writer for not writing the manual to explain it more clearly. :devil: :hide: :dance:


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## jazzwineman (Nov 5, 2012)

Stancestans said:


> I hope you're not insinuating that Mac OS is impervious to infections.


 Of course not, but do you really want to get into a comparison about the vulnerability of windows vs mac and the sheer number differences?


TBB


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

@jazzwineman, sending me a racist PM is not going to change my opinion nor what I posted...Just shows your character and maturity...

And the Yawn.. that's what we did when we read your rant...... But the bold and red kind of kept us awake...This entire thread is a teachable moment for you _grasshopper_, you might want to take a print out and read it the next time you think to rant..


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

Just so the audience can enjoy.. Here's the next PM after the racist one..



> So I am going to call out your manhood now and ask exactly what yo would do with win 10 when it fails to recognize any mouse- no matter what technique is used to fix that is avail bale And why would I want to spend days and hours on an OS that can't even get the most basic of items to work. Please list them and lets see how much you think you know.


Dude.. I'm literally lmao here with your messages... You're a system admin, you spent days ? really... This is even more embarrassing...

Tell us all the steps you've done, we'll tell you what you missed..


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

jazzwineman said:


> Of course not, but do you really want to get into a comparison about the vulnerability of windows vs mac and the sheer number differences?
> 
> TBB


Known vulnerabilities would be the accurate phrase, and no, it is not in my interest to make the comparison. That would be in your interest and free choice of OS, no pressure.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

tristar said:


> @jazzwineman, sending me a racist PM is not going to change my opinion nor what I posted...Just shows your character and maturity...
> 
> And the Yawn.. that's what we did when we read your rant...... But the bold and red kind of kept us awake...This entire thread is a teachable moment for you _grasshopper_, you might want to take a print out and read it the next time you think to rant..


Report the PM so the rest of the staff can have a look. 

Maybe jazzwineman should read the forum rules.....



> THREATS OR HARASSMENT
> This includes threats of bodily harm or other violent statements as well as any type of personal harassment from a user, whether by email, in PM, on the forum or, by means of any other messaging methods utilized by TSF or its members.


Harassment is a very serious offense.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

I already asked him to be nice and provided a link to the rules there is no excuse for any harassment.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

Confounded Also said:


> The designer for not making the device more universal. :devil: :hide: :dance:


 How do you mean *more universal*? Interoperability between different kinds of devices (phone, tablet, PC, game console, IoT...) is what I can universal. As at now, I have shared experiences between my Windows 10 laptop and android phone. How about working on one of my stations and resuming right where I left off from another station? Those, I call universal.




> and the technical writer for not writing the manual to explain it more clearly


Some users won't even look at manuals past the table of contents before embarking here with requests for "step by step clear instructions". TSF is packed with those. The idea of doing a little finger-lifting to get something done scares them into nonsensical rants.


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## VividProfessional (Apr 29, 2009)

cant someone just ban Jazzwineman obviously here to cause trouble and stuff. We dont really want that here to be honest.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Sure we can Dave but what is to be gained by that? Truth be known there are some points made that are valid but we also have an obvious rant having little to do with a mouse problem used as an excuse to declare war on Microsoft and Windows 10 and everyone who defends it but this is an open forum and we really are here to hear other peoples opinions.

Tristar I find it really hard to add to what you have said back blow by blow here but the one point he makes I sure do agree with is the elimination of F8. I did think that among reasons for new OS were things like making jobs easier not more complicated and offering things the old OS did not do. Elimination of F8 is probably the single worst thing Microsoft has ever done to us second only by destroying a marvelous start menu I too am forced to use Classic Shell (Rich ducks for cover) on rare occasions when I can't find what I am looking for, before we make use of the start menu into something I use every minute of the day instead of twice a month, but the whole point is rather than get upset and bluster through 20 posts just calmly use Classic Shell? What is the need to bluster and rant and cause all this upset and send nasty pms over the fact you had to go out of your way to make the OS what you want it to be? And really do you not know that disabling "secure boot" and enabling" legacy boot" from Uefi easily gets you to the same place without dumping on a whole community and trying to incite a verbal riot against Microsoft.

Good techs whether they administer 3 pcs or 20,000 pcs are problem solvers who realize so much time is wasted placing blame for issues and the only thing that solves the issues is cures not ranting and raving about the issues. As I see it you had 2 good points and the rest was "windows dressing" and you also are forgetting that Windows 10 greatest accomplishment is making the computing environment more secure. I used to spend 90% of my time eradicating client Malware and now I might see an infected computer once a month and you need to realize how important that accomplishment really is.


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

lol...Absolutely Rich, I agree on F8 and my rationale as to why it was removed..... You and I have long been in this business, and how many times do we actually have to go to the Advanced boot menu on Windows 10 compared to XP or 7.. In XP almost every other issue required F8 boot for Safe Mode with networking.. And I've seen that drastically reduced as on date....F8 would have been a showstopper on a XP or 7, but not for 10...

I use Classic Shell as well, more powerful, keeps things simple and light weight, my contention was he wanted Aero and classic :S... If he had spent time on Google in place of the time spent on ranting, he would have been able to download and install the Classic shell...

The one key learning in the IT industry, if we can't embrace change, we can't survive..... In the last year, I've had to rapid skill myself on RPA, IoT, AI, Edge computing, Mesosphere, Analytics and what not and am still good for nothing with them :S.. Paradigm shifting technologies popup almost every few weeks now and it's hard to cope with them...Unless we embrace them, we don't actually see the big picture and how that piece fits into the bigger jigsaw puzzle in the future..

It's ok to have a difference of opinion, each one is entitled to his opinion, but going off on Corday's signature like that, shows someone who just wanted to crap all over with misguided ranting & with wide conjecture...That ticked me off...

My offer is still open to the OP, post your issue, we'll tell you where you missed..


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

F8 feature was removed for security reasons. I modified my boot menu so on booting or restarting I have the option to choose OS as Windows 10 or Windows10 Safe Mode with Networking. I can access other options also.


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

Exactly, or just a Shift+Restart, allows you to go there..


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

And of course I agree there is less need these days for F8 however we both know that is no reason to show such callous disregard and make things more complicated for those of us who work in the industry. Actually why it is a bigger problem is the fact we so seldom need F8 anymore and that makes the workaround harder to remember and more annoying actually. You know instead of remembering what to do we now have to relearn it every time.

And yes technology= change of course and those that cannot deal with it need to go elsewhere because life is too short to piss and moan to the world about unresolvable issues frankly. I have had my times I mean I really resented Vista and never put any pcs on it permanently though the 2nd service pack did fix most of the issues, I just knew it wouldn't be there long and I never used 8 at all or 8.1, no reason to it was written for cell phone users and tablet buffs and meant nothing to me so I hope they enjoyed it, but everyone knew its days were numbered.


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

Yep.. Point taken.. We ran a few 8/8.1 in testing, but we're actually migrating directly from 7 to 10, with about 3-5% in 8/8.1..

As Corday mentioned, if it's removed for Security reasons, I'm ok with walking those extra steps, due to my Security paranoia....


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

If you can't beat them...


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