# CPU temp/case/heatsink questions



## Charlie Justice (Feb 24, 2010)

Hi, longtime poster and lurker. I recently moved from a normally chilly coastal climate to Sacramento, CA, where it is quite warm in the Spring and much hotter in the summer. My computer temps were all fine before, but now my CPU is running around 50 degrees Celsius while idling. I turned it to a different position so the side vent was more exposed and it went down to about 48, then I removed the side of the case entirely and its now at about 44 C. All of this has been just browsing the internet and reading things, I have not been running any games, playing music, watching movies or anything like that. Essentially, these are idle temps. It is in the 80s outside right now, and the summer weather here is known to get into the 100s.

I am wondering if I need to invest in a new case, new heatsink, new cooling system, new fans, or what. What would be the order of purchasing these things? 

Here is my current rig, put together in 2010: 

OS - Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit with most "important" updates installed.

CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz

Motherboard - Asus M4A785TD-V EVO

RAM - OCZ AMD Black Edition 4GB(2x2) DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 Memory Model OCZ3BE1600C8LV4GK62861895
GPU - SAPPHIRE Toxic 100315TXSR Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5
HARD DRIVE - Western Digital Caviar Black 640 GB
Power Supply - Corsair 750TX
Case - Rosewill Challenger (mid tower ATX)

Are these temps dangerous? Around what temp should my CPU be safely idling, or at full load? 

What would my best purchase be? A new full tower case? A new heatsink? Should I consider liquid cooling? 

Unfortunately I will not be able to afford an all new computer anytime soon, but could spare a few hundred on a case/cooling system. 

Thanks for reading!


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Let's get an overall look at the temps:

How to check your system temperatures | Tech Support Forum


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

Start looking into aftermarket cooling; air or liquid would be your choice, either will work. Your Challenger case is on the small size so keep in mind the physical size of the coolers. Take some measurements inside for maximum cooler height; i.e. motherboard to the side panel. 

FYI: when it comes to liquid cooling and this case, you are limited to 120mm radiators


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

I have a different opinion than gcavan. 

First, it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate supply of cool air flowing through the case. The CPU cooler need only toss the CPU's heat into that flow. 

Second, today's OEM CPU coolers are perfectly capable of extracting the CPU's heat and tossing it up into that flow - even with mild to moderate overclocking. 



> I am wondering if I need to invest in a new case, new heatsink, new cooling system, new fans, or what. What would be the order of purchasing these things?


Your temps are fine now. I don't start to worry until my CPU temps sit above 60°C for more than a couple seconds. And then that typically just means it is time for me to clean out the heat trapping dust drawn in by my case fans.

According to Rosewill, your case already comes with 1 front 120mm fan, 1 top 140mm fan, 1 rear 120mm fan. And it supports 2 more 120mm fans. That is already excellent fan support. 

I don't see where you have anything to worry about. But if you find your CPU temps do rise, and sit above 60°C for any length of time, you might try adding another case fan - and be sure to keep the interior clean of heat trapping dust. I do NOT recommend liquid cooling because they typically do NOTHING for the chipset or the heat sensitive and heat generating devices surrounding the CPU socket. 



> What would my best purchase be?
> could spare a few hundred on a case/cooling system.


A window air conditioner! A small 5000 to 6000BTU unit can be had for $109. Or better yet, this Energy Star 5,000 BTU AC with Remote Control for $144.00. Being Energy Star rated will allow you to recoup the difference in price in energy costs in just one or two seasons and the remote control will be nice. 

PLUS - the window AC has air filters to collect dust and will mean you can keep the windows closed in that room and that means an even greater reduction in dust that might otherwise be drawn into your PC. 

Of course, if your new home is air conditioned, then forget all of the above because your 50°C is just fine and likely will remain so throughout the hot summer months.


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## Charlie Justice (Feb 24, 2010)

Masterchiefxx17 said:


> Let's get an overall look at the temps:
> 
> How to check your system temperatures | Tech Support Forum


Downloading a game that will actually push the system now, will be a while, will report back to you when I have load temps screencapped.


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## Charlie Justice (Feb 24, 2010)

gcavan said:


> Start looking into aftermarket cooling; air or liquid would be your choice, either will work. Your Challenger case is on the small size so keep in mind the physical size of the coolers. Take some measurements inside for maximum cooler height; i.e. motherboard to the side panel.
> 
> FYI: when it comes to liquid cooling and this case, you are limited to 120mm radiators


i was considering just getting a new case and seeing if that solved it on its own? At some point I would like to build a new PC anyways, and I figure the case is one of the things less likely to get "outdated," am I correct? 

Then if the new case doesn't do the trick, getting a nice fat new heatsink that will fit in a spacious full tower case


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## Charlie Justice (Feb 24, 2010)

Bill_Bright said:


> I have a different opinion than gcavan.
> 
> First, it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate supply of cool air flowing through the case. The CPU cooler need only toss the CPU's heat into that flow.
> 
> ...


The house I live in is air conditioned, but my room mate who owns it does not like the AC on very chilly because it gets expensive and I am already getting quite a bargain on rent, and talked him out of raising the rent for this year, so I do not want to push my luck :smile:

My window is also far too big, and sideways opening to effectively use an air conditioner such as you have suggested. I nonetheless appreciate your suggestion, though. 

I was also thinking to agree with you regarding the stock heatsink, the AMD heatsink is surprisingly beefy, with nice fat pipes on it. Never had any problems at all till I moved to a much hotter area, and the summer hasn't even started yet. 

One thing I noticed is that my tower is sitting right next to a desk, and the detachable side with the vents is pushed up against that desk, trapping the air. I moved it away, that should make a difference. 

So you guys think 50+ degrees isn't bad until it stays above 60? 

Thanks for all of your replies!


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

You will never get below ambient temperature with either air or water cooling, to do this you would need phase-change cooling (i.e., refrigeration). However, better heatsinks with thermal compound properly applied can maintain your system not much above ambient. My Noctua NH-D14 keeps my CPU 2 C above ambient in low-level tasks. Running Prime 95, I get temps that level off at 12 C above ambient. Note that the Noctua is designed so that it enhances case airflow if positioned properly. I don't even have an exhaust fan as the two large heatsink fans blow air directly out the back of my case -- the rear case fan was only causing turbulence and actually limiting airflow.

There is a difference in heatsinks and cases though. My old Sonata II was quiet but the system had a tendency to run hot. My new Corsair C70 is a bit more noisy but decidedly cooler. Changing out the heatsink/cooler from the stock one to the whisper quiet Noctua both lowered the noise and increased the cooling efficiency.

However, all this comes at a price -- replacing a case and adding a top-end heatsink may run you $200.

This site has a lot of good information on PC cooling:

FrostyTech - Best Heat Sinks & PC Cooling Reviews

However, the recommended maximum sustained operating temperature for a Phenom II is 62 C and if you are below that then don't worry too much about it.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

> Running Prime 95, I get temps that level off at 12 C above ambient


That's great but Prime 95 and other benchmarking programs are designed to "artificially" stress components beyond real-world scenarios - even gaming - to see how far they can be pushed before becoming unstable. I NEVER use them because it is like drag racing your car. Yeah, you may win the race but you take miles of life off the tires and sure do nothing for the longevity of the engine or transmission. 



> So you guys think 50+ degrees isn't bad until it stays above 60?


Sure! 50°C is well within the safe range. Even 60° is safe. Most CPUs today remain stable until they get into 70s. 60° is just my personal threshold because it is easy to keep temps below that with OEM coolers and a decent case. 

62°C is the maximum for that particular Phenom II X4 (some go to 72°C) but that does not mean damage will occur if you go above that. It means that is when it will go into self-protection mode and shut down. Of you don't want that to happen because you may corrupt the hard drive and lose your data. 

It is important to note that cool is important, but cooler does not mean better. That is, if you keep you temps in the 50s, you will not get better performance or longer life by pushing them into the 40s or below. All you get is bragging rights. 

The biggest worry, besides good case cooling (and again, your case provides that - if you keep it clean of heat trapping dust) is your TIM (thermal interface materials) - but even the OEM thermal pads used today are vastly superior to those used 10 years ago. While you typically can get 3 - 5° improvement with a good aftermarket TIM, the fact is, if you _need_ those extra few degrees, you probably should look at adding another case fan first. 

The main thing to remember is TIM does not dry out, wear out or otherwise need periodic replacement AS LONG AS the cured bond between the two mating surfaces remains intact. If the bond is not broken, TIM can and does easily last 10, 15 years or longer. But if you bounce the computer off the floor, transport it in the back of a pickup truck or U-Haul, or remove the heatsink for some reason, you MUST thoroughly remove the old TIM and properly apply a fresh, new, thin as possible but still thorough coverage, layer of quality TIM.


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## Charlie Justice (Feb 24, 2010)

Thanks Bill Bright. I am scared of removing the heatsink because last time I did that on a computer, the paste was so strong I couldn't get the CPU detached, so I pulled too hard and ended up bending the CPU pins and wrecking it


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

Charlie Justice said:


> Thanks Bill Bright. I am scared of removing the heatsink because last time I did that on a computer, the paste was so strong I couldn't get the CPU detached, so I pulled too hard and ended up bending the CPU pins and wrecking it


Ah, well for future reference, you never initially "pull". If you need to remove the heatsink fan (HSF) assembly for some reason, you carefully twist it back and forth without pulling until the cured bond is broken. Then you carefully "lift" it off. Of course, you must ensure the HSF assembly clamping mechanism is properly loosened from the motherboard first. Running the computer for a minute or two to warm up the CPU and TIM can help make removal easier too. 

Also note that some TIM is "adhesive" TIM. This should NEVER be used on CPUs but you often see it on chipsets and occasionally on GPUs. Adhesive TIM is used when there is no mechanical clamping device or bracket to hold the heat sink in place.


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