# circuit box question.



## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Mobile home, the electrical service has 4 wires coming in, red, white,black, green. 
Black and red are both hot, connected to the main breaker. 
White is connected to a bus with +/- 40 holes and screws for connection.
Green is to a small bus with only 8 holes, also has a bare ground connected to a driven ground rod.

I've always considered the ground and neutral to be the same at the box, but what I'm seeing in this has me wondering. 
A meter doesn't show any current between the obvious ground and the neutral, so would I be correct in assuming they are the same? 

This could be possibly be considered a sub-box because the main service and primary breaker box for house outlet and well etc are outside.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

85 views and nobody can explain why there is such a huge difference between the number of grounds and neutrals?


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

kendallt said:


> 85 views and nobody can explain why there is such a huge difference between the number of grounds and neutrals?


there is no reason to complain, at least 85 views were from those who wanted to help but couldn't. When it comes to circuits breakers, wiring and meters, you should never assume anything, you really need a licensed electrician who can see exactly what you have so you can be properly advised. Do you really want advice from someone here who is just guessing??? or do you want advice from someone who is qualified. Maybe a regular member is, just not seen your question yet.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Grounds and neutrals should only be connected at the point of service, which in your case is the main outside. The ground rod, and GEC connected at that load center is technically incorrect. It should be connected at that main. 

Neutrals may not be terminated with any other conductor(including other neutrals) in panelboards, so a termination point must be provided for the maximum number of neutrals the equipment can supply. Grounds are often tied together, or doubled up in the lugs, so there are fewer points provided to terminate.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

That was what I was curious about, I'd never seen the ground rod hooked inside on the second box, always on the primary box. The other was those ground lugs, typically, while there are often less, they've not been a 1:5 ratio more often 1:2. 

The reason I'm splitting circuits is that this place is old, 1960's mobile home and has aluminum wire, when they switched it to breakers all they did was go to 20 amp breakers. The kitchen, laundry room and 110v water heater, hall & living room light and 3 outlets in the living room were all on the same 20 amp circuit using one 12 gauge aluminum wire off the breaker. 
Not one to panic when I see aluminum wire, but I'm not comfortable seeing heavy loads like that on aluminum, so I'm splitting the circuits up and running copper.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

I'd do the same thing as you're doing, except I do tend to panic when I see older AL wire. 

Are the neutral, and ground bus' bonded in the second panel, or out at the main?


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

I don't see any connection between the two in the sub box, haven't opened the main yet. The only ground rod I have been able to find is the one connected to the sub panel. Seems like if it was tied at the main, there should be one there? 

I don't like aluminum wire and always swap high-draw circuits over to copper as soon as possible, and always inspect the outlets/switches, especially new ones to make sure they used the co/alr type


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

I can easily answer the 85 views......and can guess on the actual question. We currently have 20 members viewing TSF......who can reply to posts. We also have over 4,000 guests than can view posts but not reply.

Standard single phase service will have 3 cables at the entrance. At the transformer the neutral cable is earthed.....grounded. In my case the neutral is grounded at the pole where the cables go from pole to being buried....300' away (on the lot line) is a pad (transformer) where the neutral is grounded once again. All that changes when we get to the meter base......the house neutral is connected to the power company's and the panel requires a separate ground. They are all grounds......the difference is where they are earthed and who provides it.

Depending on the date of installation, you probably do not have a ground rod for the main panel if the service is from the 50's....or even 60's. Anything older than that just forget it. Smaller capacity ground buss is very common with older panels because there was little need for anything larger......there were very few grounded circuits back then. Today's panels will have buss bars of equal capacity due to newer codes requiring all circuits to be grounded.

I don't like aluminium either.......just make sure you use Cu-Al Aid on larger cables that are lugged and pig-tail the smaller ones with copper wire and anti-oxidizing filled wirenuts at the splice.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

The primary service is roughly 10 years old, when the electric company buried the power lines in this area, the electric service was upgraded, when I first was at this house (Not owner then) there was a single service pole, with one of the old style boxes that had the disconnect lever on the side. Now have underground power and a whole new service, 10 space box and GFI etc. Inside box has an inspection sticker from 2000 on it.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Mobile home = pigtail from outside disconnect?? Neutral should be connected to power company's neutral.......ground should be connected to 8' ground rod at the pole/pedestal (disconnect location). I set mobile homes in the very early 70's and am trying to remember back that far.....:laugh:.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Quick update.

Power company came out today to upgrade to a smart meter, took the opportunity to inspect the primary service. Determined that the absolute only ground rod and cable is the one connected to my inside box. 
So, is this thing hooked up correct?


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Functionally it is correct, and nothing to really worry about. Depending on the circumstances it may/may not be to the exact letter of what code states.

Typically the GEC-neutral bond is made at the point of service. It should be in an accessible location. If the outside equipment gets completely locked up by the power company, you would want the GEC in the interior panel. Usually if a main breaker is present at the point of service, the breaker section will not be locked, in the event it ever needs to be replaced.


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