# Windows Homegroup(physical), hotel wifi-wireless



## tpcs1980 (Jul 15, 2016)

The problem is my Wireless internet connection keeps randomly dropping and staying disconnected with both my pc and my wife's whenever we are joined to a Windows Homegroup " locally." 

We're stuck living in a hotel, ( long story). When the homegroup doesn't exist ( aka the physical ethernet ports on both machines are disabled), internet runs like a champ. I've ensured when the Homegroup is created that we're not going through the Public hotel's wireless internet.

We'll say my PC is PC 1, and wife's is PC 2. Both PC's use the same model of wireless usb ethernet card ( netgear a6100) and both use the same speed and length of usb extension cord to maximize signal strength. 

The only problem is being able to have wireless internet AND being connected to a Windows Homegroup to share files at the same time. Connecting the wireless cards straight to each PC's usb ports matters not. I've confirmed that.

Both PC's have the same version of Windows 10 and 1 year old hardware. Everything else works like a champ. Also the problem remains regardless of which PC that creates the Homegroup and regardless of reboots.

The following things have already been done:
1. Ensured the physical ethernet ports are set to static ip address and ensured the correct DNS and DEFAULT GATEWAY are both set correctly and the same on both machines. I would double check these network settings have not changed on both PC's even after the wireless internet stops working through "Ipconfig /all", and yes I have tried flushing dns, ipconfig /release and ipconfig /renew for kicks. Same problem is still there.

2. Ensured each PC can 100% successfully PING each other.

3. Successfully creating from either PC the Homegroup and joining it from the other is always easy and works every time. The Homegroup never disconnects.

4. Ensured in group policy settings " gpedit.msc" that the physical ethernet lan connection on both machines by default always is set to " Private" as Homegroup's instructions require this. Also ensure the Wireless ethernet's connections on both machiens are always set by default to " Public" as required. Finally ensured that both machine's have it enabled to " never allow the User to change the Network Location " to or from Public and Private to ensure wireless remains Public and physical ethernet remains Private through those Group Policy settings.

5. The Home group functions the same, perfectly, regardless if I use a simple crossover ethernet cable from PC1 to PC2 OR connection through our netgear Nighthaw 7500v2 router through cat 6 ethernet, but the same problem with the wireless internet randomly failing and STAYING in the failing state ( although when left clicking on the Wireless symbol on the taskbar, it still shows all the normal wireless connections we can connect to with the main one still connected with internet.

6. Ensured the Wireless adapter's networking information on both PC's( including ip address) is still the same within reason ( obviously I have no control over it being DHCP since it's hotel wifi-based) with it being a normal Class C private address ( beginning with 192.168 as 99% of them normally do. and valid.

Something in my gut tells me this is a simple problem to fix, and there is something simple I am missing, but I can't for the life of me figure it out.
:banghead:

Sorry in case this post reads as ( good Lord could he be more unorganized). I"m working on it.

Be it through Windows Homegroup, or just using Windows Credentials user names and passwords, I don't care how I get this working to be able to share and transfer files among the PC's. I tried with Windows Credentials and no matter how I did it, it wouldn't accept the user name and passwords on each pc. That is new territory for me, but I am very open to suggestions and help.

Please help?


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

If my understanding is correct, you seek to *simultaneously* connect to two *distinct* networks; a local private network (via ethernet) for file sharing and a local public network (via wifi) for internet access.

There are two issues that you need to address. First is the possibility of a *gateway and/or subnet* conflict between the two networks and the second issue is the *priority assigned to the network adapters* involved.

To address the first issue, you need to configure your router (local private connection) to use a *different subnet* from the one in use by the hotel wifi network. Most routers use the 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.1.1 subnets by default, so go ahead and configure the LAN/network segment of your router accordingly. For example, if the hotel wifi network uses the 192.168.0.1 network, configure your router to use 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.2.1 or any other subnet *except* 192.168.0.1. A reboot of the router will be necessary for the changes to take effect. This change will also affect the addresses issued by DHCP server. Confirm that both PC ethernet adapters have been assigned addresses in the newly set subnet.

To address the issue of priority given to involved adapters, manually assign a *higher priority to the wifi adapters* as described here How to Change the Priority of Wired/Wireless Network Cards in Windows. This will make sure the wireless connection remains active when a wired connection is established.


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## tpcs1980 (Jul 15, 2016)

My router is using 192.168.1.3 the hotel's router is using 192.168.1.1 I hoped that was different enough, however, that is something I may need to change to a different level much further. Thank you much


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## GentleArrow (Aug 10, 2015)

If the hotel routers gateway entry is 192.168.1.1 you need to use a completely different subnet. 192.168.1.3 is in the same subnet.

Use 172.16.0.1 and 172.16.0.2 for pc1/pc2 and list no gateway on the Ethernet interfaces. Then you should be able to have both internet and your homegroup.


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## tpcs1980 (Jul 15, 2016)

Thank you much. I figured it was something simple I was missing, just my luck lol.


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## tpcs1980 (Jul 15, 2016)

GentleArrow said:


> If the hotel routers gateway entry is 192.168.1.1 you need to use a completely different subnet. 192.168.1.3 is in the same subnet.
> 
> Use 172.16.0.1 and 172.16.0.2 for pc1/pc2 and list no gateway on the Ethernet interfaces. Then you should be able to have both internet and your homegroup.


Ok I did that but the ethernet connections say " Network Cable Unplugged" although I've confirmed they are. 

PC1 ( mine ) = 172.16.0.9 for ipv4 address and 255.255.255.0 for subnet mask with no gateway. 

PC2 (Her's) = 172.16.0.5 for ipv4 address with same subnet mask and no gateway.

Preferred dns server = 172.16.0.1

both pc's are connected directly to each other using a crossover cable.

What else am I doing wrong here?:banghead:


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

Are you sure you are using the correct cable? You may have plugged in a straight-through cable thinking it's a crossover. Did you manually assign higher priority to the wireless cards? Check if the ethernet adapters are disabled and enable them. Why aren't you using the router? It would have been a lot more easier to just change its LAN settings to use the 172.16.0.x subnet and let it serve addresses to the PCs, not to mention its switching capabilities. Anyways, I don't see why a change in IP address would suddenly stop the adapters from sensing a plugged-in cable, if it's the same crossover cable that worked initially.


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## tpcs1980 (Jul 15, 2016)

Stancestans said:


> Are you sure you are using the correct cable? You may have plugged in a straight-through cable thinking it's a crossover. Did you manually assign higher priority to the wireless cards? Check if the ethernet adapters are disabled and enable them. Why aren't you using the router? It would have been a lot more easier to just change its LAN settings to use the 172.16.0.x subnet and let it serve addresses to the PCs, not to mention its switching capabilities. Anyways, I don't see why a change in IP address would suddenly stop the adapters from sensing a plugged-in cable, if it's the same crossover cable that worked initially.


Ok.
1.
(A.) I passed physical networking class with a 100. I KNOW the difference between a straight through UTP ethernet cable and a crossover UTP ethernet cable. I've BUILT them, well terminated them that is.

(B) I purchased this crossover cable from a reputable pc repair/parts store locally and double checked its pin-out ends versus what I've built and tested to ensure it works correctly.

2. I didn't know you could assign a higher priority of one type of ethernet connection versus another ( yes I still have a good deal to learn about the world of networking). Thus no I did not manually assign any priorities of bandwidth or any other coherent connection type.

3. OBVIOUSLY I ensured that the physical ethernet adapters were enabled when I was trying to keep this Homegroup connection. This is obviously networking common sense 101. 

4. I didn't think it mattered if I used a router to perform this function. Is this a finicky requirement with Windows to ensure that the PC's themselves don't get auto-confused with what one type of networking connection does versus the one receiving the DHCP ip addressing from the r8000 at my hotel?

I figured with a crossover cable between the two PC's that the same "different" dns and subnet mask settings as well as completely different IP addresses would be enough. I'm not against trying it with a router just so I can rule that out, though.

5. It's not that the Homegroup connection is dropping..It's the INTERNET ( as in the wireless connection to my hotel's r8000 netgear nighthawk router.) that is dropping while the Homegroup connection is established. When this happens, I must disable the physical ethernet adapter in Device Manager to get the internet back. The wireless cards act like nothing interfered either. Same ip addresses, same subnet masks and gateways as before also. 

So, are there any ADVANCED things/steps that I could try? I figured it was obvious from the things I mentioned before that I've already passed the beginner stage of troubleshooting this problem.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

tpcs1980 said:


> Ok.
> 1.
> (A.) I passed physical networking class with a 100. I KNOW the difference between a straight through UTP ethernet cable and a crossover UTP ethernet cable. I've BUILT them, well terminated them that is.
> 
> (B) I purchased this crossover cable from a reputable pc repair/parts store locally and double checked its pin-out ends versus what I've built and tested to ensure it works correctly.


Cables do get damaged. *Is it impossible for a cable that was working not so long ago to suddenly stop?* :ermm: If that's the rationale, then I shouldn't have replaced my phone's USB cable last week! I've replaced several store-bought, pre-built ethernet cables. Do you have a cable tester to check it with? *Termination is not the only thing that can go wrong with a cable*, networking class should have mentioned that somehow. If both adapters are enabled and working properly, then assigning static IP addresses wouldn't prevent the PCs from detecting a plugged-in, functional crossover cable. Are the LED indicators on the ethernet adapters lit when the cable is plugged into both PCs? The physical connection is enough to light up both the orange/amber and green LEDs on both adapters if a working crossover cable is connected between the two.



> 2. I didn't know you could assign a higher priority of one type of ethernet connection versus another ( yes I still have a good deal to learn about the world of networking). Thus no I did not manually assign any priorities of bandwidth or any other coherent connection type.


Did you read my first reply to this thread? :huh: I gave a link to a webpage detailing exactly how to accomplish that.



> 3. OBVIOUSLY I ensured that the physical ethernet adapters were enabled when I was trying to keep this Homegroup connection. This is obviously networking common sense 101.


When it comes to technical support, I know better than to assume :nonono: something is obvious or simple to the person seeking help.



> 4. I didn't think it mattered if I used a router to perform this function. Is this a finicky requirement with Windows to ensure that the PC's themselves don't get auto-confused with what one type of networking connection does versus the one receiving the DHCP ip addressing from the r8000 at my hotel?
> 
> I figured with a crossover cable between the two PC's that the same "different" dns and subnet mask settings as well as completely different IP addresses would be enough. I'm not against trying it with a router just so I can rule that out, though.


No, it's not a requirement, but since the crossover cable's functionality is in question, we can rule out problems with the PCs' configuration if you used *your* router, straight-through cables and DHCP and the homegroup works.



> 5. It's not that the Homegroup connection is dropping..It's the INTERNET ( as in the wireless connection to my hotel's r8000 netgear nighthawk router.) that is dropping while the Homegroup connection is established. When this happens, I must disable the physical ethernet adapter in Device Manager to get the internet back.


I got that, hence the statement _*This will make sure the wireless connection remains active when a wired connection is established*_ in my first reply to this thread; which you apparently didn't see :huh:.



> So, are there any ADVANCED things/steps that I could try? I figured it was obvious from the things I mentioned before that I've already passed the beginner stage of troubleshooting this problem.


Manually changing the priority assigned to the wifi adapters is ADVANCED configuration. If Windows gives the ethernet adapter a higher priority than the wifi adapter (it usually does), then wifi connections are dropped as soon as an ethernet connection is established. So, in your case, the internet connection (via wifi) is lost when the homegroup connection (via ethernet) is established. Since you wish to keep both connections active and for separate purposes, you will have to override Windows automatic prioritization of the adapters involved and instead manually assign a higher priority to the wifi adapter so that the wifi internet connection remains active when your homegroup connection becomes active.


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## tpcs1980 (Jul 15, 2016)

I'm sorry, but please understand I'm used to dealing with childish forums in which they may be more experienced I.T. troubleshooters somewhere in the sea of children, but from the sound of one or more of your replies, it felt like you were just rubbing my nose in it.

""Cables do get damaged. Is it impossible for a cable that was working not so long ago to suddenly stop? If that's the rationale, then I shouldn't have replaced my phone's USB cable last week! I've replaced several store-bought, pre-built ethernet cables. Do you have a cable tester to check it with? Termination is not the only thing that can go wrong with a cable, networking class should have mentioned that somehow. If both adapters are enabled and working properly, then assigning static IP addresses wouldn't prevent the PCs from detecting a plugged-in, functional crossover cable. Are the LED indicators on the ethernet adapters lit when the cable is plugged into both PCs? The physical connection is enough to light up both the orange/amber and green LEDs on both adapters if a working crossover cable is connected between the two.""

1. I just bought this cable 9 days ago and even tested it over at my brother's house and it worked flawless at up to 1Gbps speeds. Thus I KNOW IT ISN'T the crossover cable. Regardless that doesn't mean I won't try using straight through ethernet cabling through a router.

2. YES I have a cable tester and YES I did test the crossover cable as well as all of my ethernet cables ( cat6 and the two cat7 ).

3. Excuse me for accidentally overlooking your link. Now, the problem I have with that link is that it says
" And now, finally, we’re at the place where you can make the change. Uncheck the box for Automatic Metric, and then type a number into the Interface Metric textbox. You can consult the list that we found in the command prompt earlier to know what metric to assign—you’ll probably want to assign it something higher than 1, since that’s used for the loopback adapter." Ok, problem is it DOESN'T explain if the lower numbers mean the higher priority is given in the list of adapters in cmd, or if it's the HIGHER numbers that are receiving the highest priority. This is something that none of the networking-involved classes at ITT-TECH have even mentioned let along went over. I didn't know this could be done, let alone HAD to be done. But, cool. I've learned something new.

"" When it comes to technical support, I know better than to assume something is obvious or simple to the person seeking help"" 

Yeah funny how that works eh? Had you actually read what I explained IN THE VERY FIRST COMMENT, aka the request for help, it was obvious that I ensured that the ethernet adapters were ENABLED. So obviously I'm not the only one here having a miscommunication of any level.

Now, when I finally knock out this pointless midterm for programming class ( something I'll probably never use again) and get home, I'll try what you're talking about on that link. 

Next time someone requests help, being condescending isn't the way to help them nor to get them to "listen." I'm moving on now.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

tpcs1980 said:


> I'm sorry, but please understand I'm used to dealing with childish forums in which they may be more experienced I.T. troubleshooters somewhere in the sea of children, but from the sound of one or more of your replies, it felt like you were just rubbing my nose in it.
> 
> "" When it comes to technical support, I know better than to assume something is obvious or simple to the person seeking help""
> 
> ...


I'm glad you noticed the attitude in my previous reply because *it was intentional*. Yes, I was being condescending, against my principles, if my encounters in this forum are proof, but inspired by your similar attitude in post *#8*.

When we issue instructions, we expect you to at least respond on the same and if you don't, it creates the impression that you outright ignored them, and naturally, we'll try to draw your attention to the same instructions because, what's the point of seeking help when you're unwilling to do as instructed and not even explain why you are unwilling to do so? If the reason for not doing as instructed is because of unclarity, then we expect you to highlight the same and seek further clarification. If circumstances prevent you from carrying out the instructions then we expect to get an explanation on the same.

You are new on this forum (not necessarily new to this forum), and yet you somehow expect us to deduce your level of knowledge in the subject matter based on your original post and assume you've already done "the obvious", and yet, you yourself admit and is evident that you have more to learn. We do not care about your certification when addressing a problem because you cannot possibly know everything about any give subject and it's not uncommon for people to forget the most obvious of things, so stating how you passed some class is not proof that you did not overlook something "simple". The only way of proving you didn't overlook something we suggest is to provide feedback on the same. Don't you think ignoring instructions given by a techie and instead highlighting your supposed level of knowledge is outright rude and condescending of you? 

*Nothing is obvious* from your "very first comment". We do not assume things to be obvious when offering help. We do not take shortcuts and assume something is simple and has been taken care of by the OP. We like to take things from the ground up, because what may seem obvious/simple/basic to me may not be the same to others. For example; in post #2


> My router is using 192.168.1.3 the hotel's router is using 192.168.1.1 I hoped that was different enough, however, that is something I may need to change to a different level much further. Thank you much


 You thought 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.3 were "different enough" to distinguish two distinct networks yet both addresses are part of the same network segment 192.168.1.x. To me, this is basic networking, especially when talking of two distinct networks, but to you it wasn't obvious. Had I assumed that this is obvious, while inferring your level of understanding from the OP, you wouldn't be privy to the subnet/gateway conflict between the two networks that you wish to keep separate. I could give more examples of what isn't obvious and cannot be assumed as such, but that's not the purpose of this thread.

We are all volunteers here, we take our free time to analyse problems and offer possible solutions out of goodwill. It's not our job and we are not under employment and mandated to do so. So, if my help is not *ADVANCED* enough for you, and you'd rather receive the *same* help from someone else, I don't mind at all, but chances are "obvious" things will be stated from most techies here just to be thorough and to make sure nothing is being overlooked. If your response will be to keep highlighting your supposed level of knowledge on the subject and the obviousness of the respondents' suggestions, then I can assure you that they too will not feel motivated to offer you any further help. It's as if we are wasting your time (and not ours) when we suggest the "obvious" and you'd rather jump to more advanced instructables as per your own assessment of what is obvious.


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## tpcs1980 (Jul 15, 2016)

So just because someone has a small accidental temporary case of cerebral flatulence, you ASSUME that person purposely ignored one of your instructions( in this case it was the url you provided)? :facepalm:

(sigh) It would seem you're one of those high and might want-to-be geniuses who hasn't anything better to do than to be rude. I'm ignoring you now. Try learning how to communicate with decency and patience.


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