# [SOLVED] Corsair and OEM suppliers



## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

I noted in another thread, this comment about Corsair changing OEM suppliers


> ... even after changing to lower quality suppliers.


 I think there is a big, and widespread misunderstanding and/or misconception going on here that is doing a disservice to users and, in this case, Corsair too - though it really applies to all makers who use OEM suppliers - which pretty much means all makers. 

Just because an OEM supplier has a bad reputation for some of the products they have produced - especially those products under their own OEM brand - that does NOT mean, imply, or suggest ALL the products they make, and _especially those they make for other makers_, Corsair in this case, are of the same poor quality!

In fact, that is not typically how the OEM supply channel works at all!!!! 

Using Corsair as an example - sales of Corsair PSUs skyrockets beyond what Corsair can produce in their own factories. So what they do is contract with an OEM supplier to build Corsair PSUs to Corsair's designed specifications and standards, using Corsair supplied parts, or Corsair designed parts made by someone else. Remember, it is not likely Corsair manufacturers the capacitors, diodes, transformers, switches, etc. in their own factories - they just assemble parts from various makers. 

It is still on Corsair to set the standards AND perform the essential quality assurance tests to ensure the same Corsair standards are met, regardless which factory makes it.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Corsair changing sources has resulted in more broken Corsair PSUs, lousy assembly techniques, bad "fit and finish", etc. 

What seems to have upset many is the fact Corsair made changes without making a big announcement about it. But as Corsair noted (see link below), they sell PSUs to specs, not model numbers - but Corsair admits could have handled announcing the change better. 

I also note many users complained Corsair was cheapening their supplies by using smaller heatsinks. But Corsair points out they changed to more efficient components that generate less heat, thus they don't need more expensive and heavy heatsinks. 

Is that true? I don't know because I have not personally researched the old and new devices for their efficiency specs. But I do know as a long time electronics technician that it is common, as technologies advance, for more efficient devices to need less cooling. 

Look at motherboard chipsets. In the old days, they all had heatsinks and fans. Today, chipsets are more powerful, consume more energy, but are much more efficient (waste much less energy in the form of heat) so many motherboards use only a heatsink - a fan is not needed. Does that cheapen the board? No! 

Here is an excellent thread started by Corsair's Global Project Manager that explains what they did and why. And while some of the responses are trollish, many show former complainers coming around to accept Corsair's thought process.

*OF COURSE* many companies use OEM suppliers to cut labor and production costs too. And OF COURSE, that can, and often does result in lower quality products. But that is not a given, and should not be assumed - especially with a notable company that depends on a solid reputation to survive. 

The fact Corsair changed from Seasonic to CWT for some of their models does not in any way automatically suggest the new models are inferior. It is not logical to assume all products from company A are superior any more than it is logical to assume all products from Company B are inferior - not when each company makes dozens, if not 100s of products, from entry-level to very high-end. Therefore, each model should be researched and graded based on reviews for that specific model number - not by the brand stamped on the case.


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## DBCooper (Jun 11, 2010)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

Hey there Mr. Bill_Bright,

I must say I've had pretty good experience with using Corsair XMS Series back in the days when I used to build desktop computers. I've never personally used their power supplies but I've heard mixed reviews.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

I have had good experience with every Corsair, from their budget line to high end on the builds we put together here. So that's several dozen that I have personally seen - though I have heard from reliable sources of Corsair failures. But nothing to suggest a higher failure "rate". Certainly since their sales have skyrocketed, more returns can be expected. But I fear those higher numbers have been misinterpreted to mean (1) a higher percentage of PSUs are failing and (2) that that is the result of switching OEM suppliers. I can find no evidence to suggest either is the case. 

If anyone can show some real evidence (not just another poster saying so) then I would be eager to read it.


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## DBCooper (Jun 11, 2010)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

Hi Bill Bright,

I understand where your coming from. There's a alot of misinformation online, people saying good and bad things about a brand...taking stuff out of context. But between you and me Bill Bright, there's no such thing such thing as a "PERFECT" brand. There's gonna be up and downs for each brand. I am NOT saying that you're saying Corsair is perfect, but yeah, there's no such thing a perfect brand.

Also, people have differ opinions per brand. For example, i've had really good experience in using Kingston HyperX memory. The last desktop I built from 2006 that went all the way to 2012, before I bought my laptop that I am still using to this day, I used Kingston HyperX with no hiccups at all.

Again, you're gonna get those yay and nay sayers out there.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*



> But between you and me Bill Bright, there's no such thing such thing as a "PERFECT" brand. There's gonna be up and downs for each brand. I am NOT saying that you're saying Corsair is perfect, but yeah, there's no such thing a perfect brand.


Exactly! I've been saying FOREVER that until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, there will ALWAYS be premature failures - regardless the reputation of the maker, or the quality of the product. Also, most makers make dozens of products and models. No way all are great, or all are terrible either. But I have noticed many posting who "seem" to believe anything made by Seasonic is superior, to the point when any other brand of PSU is mentioned, they step in and say to get Seasonic instead - regardless the specific model in question.  I like Seasonics too, BTW. 



> there's no such thing a perfect brand.


And a perfect reason to build your own computers instead of a factory built. Thank goodness the PC and computer parts industries came up with, and agreed to the ATX Form Factor standard so Brand A motherboard will fit in Brand B case and work great with Brand C PSU, Brand D graphics card, on Brand E monitor. Sure wish such a standard existed with notebooks. 

RAM is another good example. It is nearly impossible, even with generic/off-brand stuff, to find RAM that is not warrantied for life!


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

No there isn't a perfect brand infact my last two power supplies were corsairs HX650 series by seasonic. One failed after 8 months the other one was DOA.

But a fact does remain and it goes for lots of things in life if you chose the cheaper or less quality made type of equipment then you have a higher chance of it going bad.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*



> But a fact does remain and it goes for lots of things in life if you chose the cheaper or less quality made type of equipment then you have a higher chance of it going bad.


I agree. But you have not shown any evidence Corsair is using poorer quality components or that they make poorer quality products since switching to an OEM supplier - let alone that any decline in quality is due to switching to a different supplier - as has been claimed by many. 

But to be certain, cheaper cost does NOT automatically imply cheaper quality. And without a doubt, more expensive does not automatically imply better quality either. 

Yes, the use of cheaper quality parts may result in a higher fail rate - but it is not always the case. And again, it has not been established Corsair (or their OEM suppliers) is using less quality parts, or the use of a particular OEM maker automatically implies lessor quality parts are being used. 

I fear someone somewhere saw Corsair changed the guts and suppliers in one of their PSUs, and concluded without any evidence the parts and designs were cheapened. Then his conclusions were repeated over and over until the rumor was accepted to be true. But at this point, all I see is rumors. No facts. No evidence.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

CWT and sirtec do not use A grade Japanese capacitors they use aluminum B grade capacitors sorry but that's a red flag to me. I value the power my system needs and I would rather it was as top quality as it could be.


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## DBCooper (Jun 11, 2010)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

Hi Bill Bright,

Yes, I've also seen people recommending "Seasonic" and how it's one of the greatest performing PSUs out there. I must say though, I've had pretty good experiences using other brands in the past such as Antec, Enermax, and Thermaltake power supplies. In fact, the power supply of the desktop I built that lasted from 2006 - 2012 was an Antec power supply that came with the Antec case I used. Never gave me an issue once. In fact, the desktop was still working fine when I gave it to a friend and bought my now Lenovo laptop.

But things change, I guess "Seasonic" is the top performer now. I haven't built desktops in a while. A lot of the people that I provided computer support now roll with laptops and tablets. Desktop is a DYING breed unless when your a big gamer or a person who works on movies like Monster Inc, Toy Story, which needs high-end desktop computers with powerful graphics cards etc.etc.

These days, 99% of the people I provide computer support for, including friends and family now roll with laptops and tablets. Anyway, have a good one.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*



> CWT and sirtec do not use A grade Japanese capacitors


That's another misconception. People seem to think only the Japanese make good caps. Not true but even motherboard makers make a point of saying Japanese on their packaging to avoid preconceived notions that computer component makers are still using cheap caps. 

BTW, the big hassle over caps failing on motherboards was more due to cutting corners by using less capable caps, not poorly designed or manufactured caps. Had the maker picked caps that were designed to handle the expected current and temperature levels AND conducted better quality assurance tests on a bigger sample, there would not have been the big issue. 

The use of electrolytic caps does not automatically mean bad design or poor quality either - but sadly may mean a prejudged review. 

But to my point about promoting false rumors with blanket statements, sorry, but like most blanket statements, yours is wrong too. Some CWT PSUs do use quality Japanese caps and have for many years: CWT 750VH 750 W Power Supply Review | Hardware Secrets

But more to the point I've been trying to get through here is just because CWT makes the PSU for Corsair, that does not imply CWT did the design or selected the parts and Corsair had no say in the matter.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*



> The fact Corsair changed from Seasonic to CWT for some of their models does not in any way automatically suggest the new models are inferior.


In fact they didn't. ChannelWell was always the major supplier of Corsair supplies. Seasonic was the supplier (briefly) of the HX line and a few models in the TX line. However, all Corsair supplies, including those manufactured by ChannelWell were deemed top of the line and were always highly recommended in this and other forums.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*



gcavan said:


> In fact they didn't. ChannelWell was always the major supplier of Corsair supplies. Seasonic was the supplier (briefly) of the HX line and a few models in the TX line. However, all Corsair supplies, including those manufactured by ChannelWell were deemed top of the line and were always highly recommended in this and other forums.


what I meant was that they now use CWT for their HX,TX and AX units when it used to be seasonic.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*



> However, all Corsair supplies, including those manufactured by ChannelWell were deemed top of the line and were always highly recommended in this and other forums.


I agree. They sure have been on my list of recommended brands since they first branched out into PSUs. 

Again, nothing against Seasonic - they do make quality supplies - no doubt. But I am concerned the apparent "pushing" of Seasonic whenever any other brand is suggested could easily leave the less informed the impression that EVERY other brand is inferior, or otherwise, not suitable. For example, I have seen many here at TSF join a thread to say Brand X PSUs are not on our recommended list when the specific PSU in question may be a 80 PLUS Gold PSU and achieved good reviews at professional review sites. But because Brand X is not a recommended brand, the implication is that Brand X PSUs should be avoided at all costs! 

I guess to illustrate my concerns, if Seasonic is the Lexus of PSUs, should Hondas be avoided because they are not made by Lexus? Do all computers need a Lexus power supply? 

I say, no! Yes, users need to use a quality supply from a reputable maker. And ensuring a supply is 80 PLUS Certified ensures a quality design and quality parts (because you cannot achieve a flat efficiency curve without both, a quality design and quality parts). 

Will not having a Lexus power supply mean my computer WILL be unstable? Will the Honda supply with slightly less stellar specs result in my system crashing, games running slow, and excessive fan noise?

Brand names are important, for sure. But brand names do not ensure, or imply Lexus quality, or Yugo quality, across a brand's entire product line. 

So, for example, if a user said he has a Cooler Master Pro 800W 80 PLUS Gold Certified PSU, does telling him CoolerMaster is not on our recommended list doing him, or anyone a service?

I use Rosewill as another example. Rosewill, except maybe for Best and Deer, had one of the worst reputations duly earned by lousy (electrically noisy, unstable, underpowered, loud - and commonly dead) power supplies. But some of Rosewill's latest 80 PLUS PSUs are garnering great reviews.

It would take a valiant and sustained effort to test every PSU out there and maintain a list of those PSUs that passed, and those that failed. Such a list would be great, but does not exist. All I am saying is just because a PSU is not on a "Recommended" list, that does not suggest it belongs on a "PSUs to Avoid" list. Each model should be researched separately. 

To be sure, I used to be very brand specific when it came to PSUs. But since 80 PLUS certification was introduced, I find being brand specific is no longer necessary, or a valid means for picking a quality supply.


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## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

Sounds like we have a volunteer for the PSU recommendation team! !


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

I have no problems recommending PSUs. I even have the necessary tools, test equipment, and dummy loads - and the know-how to use them to conduct a proper review. What I don't have is samples of new products to test and evaluate sitting on my bench. That is why I do my homework, and research proper review sites for specific models being considered. 

Of course the problem there is, the vast majority of reviews are conducted on new PSUs. A true evaluation would go back in 2 or 3 years and see how the reviewed PSUs are holding up.

But I will say this. What I look for in recommending a PSU is power - and I think there is nothing better than the *eXtreme PSU Calculator Lite* for that (though I highly recommend the Pro version for advanced users, techs, and forum helpers). And while 80 PLUS Certification is not an industry requirement, it is mine. So I insist on 80 PLUS Certifications. I also want a long warranty (5 years or more is good). And I want a quiet PSU too. I could care less about fancy lights with PSUs or cases. Fancy lights do nothing for performance, consume some energy, generate some heat, and do nothing for performance (worth repeating). 

And FTR, I am NOT a fan of modular PSUs either. They are more complex, cost more, have more points of failure, more points of unavoidable signal attenuation, and there no industry standards for the connectors on the modular side of the cables - meaning many are proprietary and expensive to replace, if the maker still makes them. 

And most importantly, modular cables provide no performance gains whatsoever. 

The only plus I see is a tidier case interior but I contend a "good" case will provide the necessary cable management features to keep the case tidy to minimize impacting the desired front-to-back flow of cool air through the case.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

Many of the Corsair Models were in fact made by SeaSonic up until a couple of years ago. They, as well as several other PSU retailers, then went to lower quality manufacture's for higher profits.
We do not "push" any particular component brands but we only recommend top quality components.
Personally, I like and use Modular PSU's. :smile:


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*



> Personally, I like and use Modular PSU's.


They certainly can be convenient. I got turned off by them because of no industry standard for the modular connections. Even within the same brand you can see different connector configurations that are not compatible. Not a problem if you only have a couple computers to support. But if you have many computers, you have to manage the inventory of spare cables - for many years!!! What I found was happening was spare cables were getting misplaced or lost, so adding a drive required using splitters or even swapping out PSUs. 

Or some users, not knowing what to do with the spare cables, but not wanting them to get lost, threw them into the bottom of the case - ending up with a dusty rats nest, defeating a primary purpose for going modular in the first place - a tidy case interior! :facepalm: 



> They, as well as several other PSU retailers, then went to lower quality manufacture's for higher profits.


No doubt! And no doubt we can assume this was to cut labor costs. My problem is assuming it also means they cut the quality of the parts used and went to a lessor quality design too. I don't think that is a fair assumption to make for all the models from any particular maker. Some models, probably. But all?

I liken it to Toyotas made in Texas, Kentucky, Indiana and elsewhere. Toyota cars and engines made in these American factories by American workers are of the same high quality, using the same high quality parts as Toyotas made in Japan. Why? Because the same standards were applied and expected from the American workers and American made products.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*



Tyree said:


> Many of the Corsair Models were in fact made by SeaSonic up until a couple of years ago. They, as well as several other PSU retailers, then went to lower quality manufacture's for higher profits.
> We do not "push" any particular component brands but we only recommend top quality components.
> Personally, I like and use Modular PSU's. :smile:


I agree the only psu I have ever had that went bad was a seasonic psu that was a standard build every other unit I have had since then has been modular and I have never had an issue with any of them but they were also seasonics.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

When I built my first "IBM PC clone" the early 90, the only PSU "brands" I knew were Enermax and Antec. I already had experience with Enermax through work and knew to avoid them. So Antecs were it and I've used mostly Antecs since. Antec cases too. And typically the computer is retired before the PSU fails, or has to be replaced during a HW upgrade for more power or different connector. 

I realize Antec, like Intel, and so many companies, sat on their laurels as the state-of-the-art, and their competitors zipped on by. But being spanked embarrassed them to turn around and do things right. Not all Antec PSUs are top grade, but pretty sure all Antecs are 80 PLUS, and IMO, none would be a bad choice. 

I also currently have 4 Mushkin 550W PSUs, installed in W7 systems when W7 came out in Oct 2009 still running - all 4 so quietly I have to stick my hand back there to feel any air movement. But they stopped making supplies. 

And I've used several Corsairs, currently a 750TX in this machine with no problems either.

But through my shop (in my 3rd career) we've seen lots of failed PSUs from all brands, including Seasonic, Corsair, and Antecs. But you can take all the failed name brand PSUs and put them in one tiny pile, and the pile of Dells, HP, and off-brand/generic PSUs would fill up my store room - again.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

Many of the Corsair, Thermaltake and Coolermaster PSU's we recommended in the past were in fact models built by CWT(PSH 1 platform), so I have no idea where the notion came from that they are not a decent PSU.
As most manufacturers go there are some models that are duds and others that are good, brand name alone can't be used to determine if the psu is the fault in the system.

Corsair claims to have less returns with the CWT PSH 2 platform then the older Seasonic platform the VX and TX 650 models were built on.


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## T_Rex (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

I like modular but I like regular just as much I don't mind routing wires. As some of you know I have a thing for Tt PSU's they have been my go-to for around 5 years and I have had very good luck with the brand. I use seasonic 80+ gold or Tt gold (though the Tt seasonic made units are very expensive) for higher end builds. Sometimes I use Corsair. A few times I have used Antec HCG also made by seasonic. For what it's worth the The 80+ bronze CWT Tt made PSU I have ran the R9 290x just as well as the better made Tt 750W TPD-0750M I got for it. I just felt better with the 80+ gold.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*



Wrench97 said:


> brand name alone can't be used to determine if the psu is the fault in the system.


:dance: :thumb: :smile: 



T_Rex said:


> I like modular but I like regular just as much I don't mind routing wires.


A well designed, roomy case will change cable management from a chore to a piece of cake - especially true if the case allows you to run cables (data cables too) behind the motherboard mounting plate. This not only makes for a "tidy" appearance, it moves excess power and data cables out of the _flow_ of cool air moving through the case.

And of course, a roomy case typically supports lots of large fans too. I like big fans because they move massive amounts of air at a lower RPM - thus lower noise levels. 

I do admit that modular PSUs can be easier to install, can present a tidier appearance, and (depending on routing) may impact air flow less. But I personally feel the disadvantages, higher costs, and potential problems are too great for zero performance gains.


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## T_Rex (Oct 21, 2012)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*












Small case. Tidy. Non modular.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Corsair and OEM suppliers*

That is not a small case. In fact, that "mid"-tower looks on the large size front-to-back, room for 7 expansion cards, and bays for what looks like 10+ drives! And while you have a µATX board in there, with support for that many slots, the case clearly will accept a standard ATX motherboard (just not an EATX which typically require full tower cases). 

BUT - it IS extremely tidy inside with everything looking brand new! No worries of a rats nest of cables interfering with cool air flow or harboring dust bunnies! I really like the "Bright" :whistling: green, tightly trimmed, tie wraps too. :thumb:

But I have to say, I am disappointed. :nonono: When I look at your bottom hard drive through the little square hole, I am pretty sure I see a speck of dust! Clearly you need to do a better job of keeping the interior clean! :hide: :wink:


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