# Viper 5901 Starting Problem



## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

I had the 5901 installed at an authorized dealer about 18 months ago. A couple days ago I started the truck (2007 Tundra) with the remote due to cold weather. Got in put the key to on and drove towards work.

I stopped for coffee and then went to restart the truck with my master key. The truck started and then shut off after about 5 seconds. Tried a couple more times with same result. 

Next I started the truck with the remote and she fires right up. I put the key in and head to work. The Viper dealer told me that my truck master key must have lost communication with the truck ecm. He told me to go to Toyota dealer and get my keys reflashed.

Today the dealer hooked the laptop up and found that the truck ecm is recognizing all my keys. They said something in the Viper system must be faulty. I call the Viper dealer back and he said he is not sure what to do.

The dealer said I should tell him to disconnect all Viper viring that is connected to the truck wiring harness. The Viper dealer is afraid if he does that then my truck will not recogize my truck key and possibly not start. My truck dealer assures me that wont happen.

I have been reading some posts about the tach sensor wire etc but I really would like some input from all of you. Sorry for such a long post.


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## jaggerwild (May 21, 2007)

sat4314 said:


> I had the 5901 installed at an authorized dealer about 18 months ago. A couple days ago I started the truck (2007 Tundra) with the remote due to cold weather. Got in put the key to on and drove towards work.
> 
> I stopped for coffee and then went to restart the truck with my master key. The truck started and then shut off after about 5 seconds. Tried a couple more times with same result.
> 
> ...



Why wouldn't you use pit stop mode when running for coffee? I have had this similar issue with different car's, always the dealers tells you one thing like this "till the after market unit is removed we can't fix what is wrong with it". The only thing is really to talk to the guys who did the install and see if there is anything they could find in it, of course they say its a dealers issue. And you are stuck in the middle witch really sucks. The issue may just work itself out, and of course the dealer see's a way to make extra money so he says you need all sorts of things to make this right. I have had lock smiths work on these problems too(I hear they like donuts) hint hint. Let us know how it all turns out....


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

If you have had this issue with similar cars, what was found? And what did the locksmith do on these problems?


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## jaggerwild (May 21, 2007)

sat4314 said:


> If you have had this issue with similar cars, what was found? And what did the locksmith do on these problems?


 A lock smith can program the keys(most can) he can also make keys, usually it is a warranty issue but the dealer always says "you have to have the remote starter removed". witch is BS but its his shop and warranty........ Most of the time we would remove the unit let them have it repaired them reinstall it.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

The dealer hoohked up the laptop to the truck ecm and all 3 of my keys are recognized and throwing no errors. For some reason I am thinking the Viper is seeing two keys and shutting down the engine. The Viper dealer said there is a firmware update that he can do. Perhaps the tach sensor wire? Who knows? The Viper dealer is afraid that once he totally disconnects all wires to my harness that my truck will lose communication with my master keys. The dealer says it will not and thinks the problem is with the Viper key bypass module.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

sounds like the key sense wire from the viper might be acting faulty. Since the tundra has a key sense wire, it might have come loose or has a bad connection resulting in your factory key not able to send the signal to the transponder to say, "Hey im a key, start the effing truck"


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

lcurle said:


> sounds like the key sense wire from the viper might be acting faulty. Since the tundra has a key sense wire, it might have come loose or has a bad connection resulting in your factory key not able to send the signal to the transponder to say, "Hey im a key, start the effing truck"


Thank you. That is good information to pass on the the Viper installer.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

This is the latest..went to dealer and they say the ecm is recognizing the key and that something must be wrong with the viper 5901. Went back to Viper dealer who totally disconnected Viper connections. The truck would still start but only run for about 5 seconds. Viper shop reconnected everything and truck starts with the remote just fine. They disconnected the truck key sensor wire, then the viper sensor wire, checked the tach sensor wire, reprogrammed a new brain for the Viper and still the truck will only stay running if remote start is used. They suspect the problem is with the truck immoblizer coil. The transmitter is working but maybe the receiver is not functioning and telling the truck ecm to keep running.

I have two choices now. Go back to the dealer (truck is out of warranty) and have them spend hours plus maybe parts to check or replace the immobiler receiver. Or the Viper shop will bypass the factory immobiler with a diode and change the factory wiring so the key will start the truck.


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## jaggerwild (May 21, 2007)

sat4314 said:


> This is the latest..went to dealer and they say the ecm is recognizing the key and that something must be wrong with the viper 5901. Went back to Viper dealer who totally disconnected Viper connections. The truck would still start but only run for about 5 seconds. Viper shop reconnected everything and truck starts with the remote just fine. They disconnected the truck key sensor wire, then the viper sensor wire, checked the tach sensor wire, reprogrammed a new brain for the Viper and still the truck will only stay running if remote start is used. They suspect the problem is with the truck immoblizer coil. The transmitter is working but maybe the receiver is not functioning and telling the truck ecm to keep running.
> 
> I have two choices now. Go back to the dealer (truck is out of warranty) and have them spend hours plus maybe parts to check or replace the immobiler receiver. Or the Viper shop will bypass the factory immobiler with a diode and change the factory wiring so the key will start the truck.


 The truck will not run even with the alarm out, many new cars after a few years have this issue cause of wearing on the key. Sense it is out of warranty you can take it to any shop you like, one that will fix the problem as it is now known what the issue is. The dealer is gonna try to charge you as much as possible(this is known) a good private mechanic that has a good word of mouth is your best bet if you were to fix what is wrong.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

tell the viper dealer to bypass the immobilizer, AND since this problem was a result of an incorrect installation of the remote starter. Also if they do this, tell them that you would like an alarm on the vehicle as well. I know things on a car go out, but not in a 2007 Tundra.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

It already has the Viper alarm and all sensors (tilt) etc and worked perfectly for 18 months, so how would that be an "incorrect installation" of the remote starter?


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

was the remote starter an add on? or has it been installed for 18 months as well?


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

never mind, Im not a Viper dealer, i misread the initial post.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

do you know if they did a w2w or d2d connection?


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

lcurle said:


> do you know if they did a w2w or d2d connection?


layman term for w2w or d2d?


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## jaggerwild (May 21, 2007)

sat4314 said:


> layman term for w2w or d2d?


 those are the devises used to bypass the kill module in the truck, one is data to data.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

At this point the Viper dealer said he can change the ignition wiring so when I use the key it will energize the "brain" of the Viper system and bypass the factory immobilizer and that is all I know. He said something about putting a diode in the system.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

The dealer hooked up the computer and each key was inserted in the ignition and each was recognized and said "key recognized, ok to start" but it will only run for about 5 seconds and shut off. When I use the Viper remote start it cranks and starts fine. Then I put the key in the ignition, turn it to the on position and press the brake pedal and the truck runs fine.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

just get them to put a diode inline, easiest and cheapest way to solve the issue. The viper took over the ignition and kill switching in the vehicle, which is kind of cool but a pain in the wazooo!


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

also there is a recall out on your truck for the gas pedal.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

I know about the gas pedal. it still bewilders me why the truck will not stay running when I use just the master key. Something is definately shutting down the fuel pump 5 seconds after it starts. Amazing that when I use the Viper remote start and then insert key and trun it to the on position everything runs fine. I shut it off with the key and the moment I remove the key the factory immobilizer icon goes back to flashing on the dash like it shoud.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

how many keys do you have for this vehicle? what type of bypass was used? If it was an Intellikit or Express kit I bet I know whats up.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

I have 2 masters and 1 valet key. All of which are recognized when my dealership hooks up the laptop to my truck. All 3 say ok to start engine and give no codes. I will find out which bypass it is this weekend and let you know. Thanks


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

lcurle said:


> how many keys do you have for this vehicle? what type of bypass was used? If it was an Intellikit or Express kit I bet I know whats up.


The kit was an Express Kit XK05


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

you need to program the kit with both of the main keys, not the valet key. If you use the same key it will not start, The intellikit knows there are at least two keys.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

lcurle said:


> you need to program the kit with both of the main keys, not the valet key. If you use the same key it will not start, The intellikit knows there are at least two keys.


I am confused. Why after 18 months of working perfectly would it suddenly think there are two keys? It was never programmed with the valet key. Only the master key.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

it is a piece of electronics....who knows.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

lcurle said:


> it is a piece of electronics....who knows.


So you are thinking its the Express kit bypass? ALL wire connections have been checked and double checked. Would you agree that my best bet is to let the Viper dealer put a diode in the system that would energize the Viper system and allow the truck to be started by the key instead of always having to use remote start?


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

That would be the easiest and fasted way to solve this problem. a $.30 diode and about 10 minutes.


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## sat4314 (Jan 5, 2010)

lcurle said:


> That would be the easiest and fasted way to solve this problem. a $.30 diode and about 10 minutes.


You have been very helpful and I greatly appreciate the time you have taken to keep answering my questions. Unless someone else has a better idea I will have them put the diode in the truck. Can't get it done for another couple weeks due to my work schedule.


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