# [SOLVED] Pulling My Hair Out



## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

I've been fighting with this build for a couple of months. Tried 3 differenct CPUs, 2 different motherboards, verified the RAM and PSU but can't seem to get it going.

I'm trying to figure out if it's best to just scrap what I have (a total waste of money) or keep trying to get it working. The case/PSU were brand new from NewEgg although it's well past the 30 days so best I could do with them would be a replacement; I don't think there is anything wrong with the case, but, then again, I don't know what is wrong.

The motherboard is a new in the box from another e-tailer but it was sealed so I've very confident it was brand new.

I have another machine that I tested the RAM in and booted and registered correctly so I've really confident the RAM is good.

I tried the PSU on another machine and it booted fine. I also tried the PSU from the other machine in this case/config and still no go. So I'm really sure the PSU is okay.

I'm really torn because all that's left is the CPU and motherboard and I don't have "spares" to test/verify/eliminate what may or may not be good. If I had another P4 motherboard, I could at least verify the CPU - but I was assured that it was tested good before sending (and it is the third one).

The use for this machine will be to do one thing: Connect to my solar power system and collect the data that is sent every second. No frills, no super processing power or RAM requirements and definitely no video requirements (any built-in/on-board will be fine). There will be no periferals (maybe a CD) and no add-on cards.

So, should I just throw the money away and start over?


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

you can't just they're new so it'll work fine.please post the specs for all the parts! everything is important especially your psu and video card. no links this time just type the names into forum


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## mlabre20 (Jul 11, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

You could try going through the steps here and maybe you will be able to figure out what is causing the problem.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Mc Guy:
I did post links for the motherboard, CPU and RAM which are the crucial items. The PSU came with the case, but, as I said, I did try that power supply to power up two other machines with no problems and tried the other machine's PSUs to power up this motherboard - no go.

Also, there is no video card. If you'll notice, I mentioned using the on-board video which is listed on the link for the motherboard.

MLabre:
Thanks! Actually I have that printed and have used it to build the other two machines that I've finished. This one is giving me a bear of a time though. I'm not even getting to the POST screen. I've tried with the single memory stick as suggested but still nothing


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

You have not told us what happens with the machine. Does it post? Does it quit before post? Does it come on at all? Does it shut down or just sit there with little lights on? Please be very specific or it is difficult to know what is wrong. 


(BTW, the link given to you by miabre20 is an excellent troubleshooting method)


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Sorry, TW:

I've been at this so long, I figured most would remember - my bad!

NO POST   The CPU and case fans do power up and the LEDs light up. No beeps, no video, no nothing. If I do connect a hard drive, it does spin up so I'm very confident that the power supply is supplying power   and that at least that part of the motherboard is working.

I'm just wishing I had another motherboard to test the CPU in to be able to eliminate/identify which is bad. Maybe I should just buy another CPU and motherboard from NewEgg and forget about this one? Hate to do that though as it's tough to find motherboards that handle DDR 400 in micro-ATX format.

Thanks!!!!


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

If you pull the memory out and fire it up, what happens? Does it beep at you?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

No it doesn't TW. I tried that as well as was suggested in one of the threads I searched. I even tried not hooking up the LEDs and case connectors as suggested and used a scredriver to power up and the same.

So I'm still sitting between MB/CPU?


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

If it doesn't beep without memory, you most likely have motherboard problems. It should yell at you for not having memory. You can try this next thing, but unlikely you will get anyplace with what you have described...however, you can't lose much, can you? Very seldom does the CPU fail...it is usually the motherboard that goes when something is wrong.

Remove everything except the ATX connector, the +12 molex (I hope you aren't trying to use the extra 4 pin from the ATX connector if your motherboard uses a 20 pin ATX), the CPU/Heasink with fan plugged in to the motherboard, keyboard, mouse, Video card, monitor, ONE stick of ram only, off/on switch and case speaker.....NOTHING ELSE...NADA, NOTHING. Fire it up and see what happens. Report back.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Thanks TW: I did double check the book and you are correct, I should get lots of beeps with no RAM installed at all.

Not that it matters, but, is there a way to test the speaker? I'm thinking that even if the speaker were bad, I should get some video/post/error message which I don't; monitor light stays yellow indicating no signal.

Verified again the only connections are the 20 pin power (extra 4 pin tie-strapped and not in use), 4 pin CPU power, CPU and case fan, front panel controls (LED, power, reset, HDD LED), VGA cable using on-board video, keyboard and mouse (tried using both USB and PS2). Tried with 1 DIMM with the same results; no beeps or POST. Swapped slot and same result. Tried with no RAM at all and same result - nada.

It's a pinless CPU, but, verified all contacts look good and installed correctly (only one way to get the lock on anyway). Tried another CPU with the same results; nada.

So if we are convinced it's the motherboard (even though it's the 2nd one), options? NewEgg only has 1 microATX that supports DDR400 RAM. It does not appear that it will work though as the FSB doesn't seem right.

If I search for Intel/microATX/LGA 775, I get 111 results. Looking at the FSB options, the only thing I can see that "may" work is the 1066/800Mhz (not sure what the two different numbers are but my CPUs are 800Mhz so.....). That narrows it to 28. Of those, looking at the CPU type, there are only 14 that support P4 so that's my list. If I get one of these though, that means I have to buy new RAM as well


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

So do you think this is confirming the motherboard? Any thoughts on my previous post on the list of possible replacements or should I just bite it and get a new CPU as well?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

I'd like to order the new parts today if possible so I'd appreciate any input that you guys could provide. I'm thinking the MIS board that is in the above referenced list and 2GB (2x1GB) RAM. I was wanting to get the ASUS board but it didn't specifically say it supported HyperThreading which both of the CPUs that I have are. Was hoping to get the board/RAM for ~$100 as I've already wasted too much money.

Thanks as always!!!!


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

A cpu rarely tanks, but motherboards do quite often, so I would try replacing the board again and I would look at something else rather than what you have. The thing is, I don't know what CPU you have (unless I missed it while re-reading the thread, so kind of difficult to recommend anything to you.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Actually you did TW, but, that's okay. I have two P4s; a SL7PY and a SL7Z9. I've tried both in this board.

When you say something other than what I have, are you referring to the MFR? If so, then I am   The two that I referenced in the above thread (ASUS and MSI) were my two choices.

Thanks!!!!!!!


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

if you need a P4 board for use as a swapper and tester I can send you one ?

after testing your cpu's you can send it back ?

PM me if you want to proceed




I have a spare Asus P4-P800-E Deluxe


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

WOW! Wasn't expecting that Linderman. I looked up the board (P4-P800) and I'm confused as it shows a socket 478. Even though it is a P4 Intel processor, I'm guessing my socket 775 chips won't fit?


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

sorry about that ......... I dont have a spare 775 motherboard at this time ...... my bad

YES its a socket 478 board

you might want to look on mwave.com / click refurbished / then click motherboards

there you can get a replacement board very cheap ...... I have had great luck with them !! look for a P31 chipset or better yet P35


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

No need to apologize. I REALLY appreciate the offer!!!!

I did look on MWave but didn't find any 775 boards and it's a bit harder (at least for me) to narrow my searches down on there. Did you look at the list I referenced in the previous post? Suggestions?

Thanks again!!!!


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Hey Linderman/TW,

Did you have any suggestions on my list of possible motherboards (re: post above).


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

I would go with this one 

MSI p31 neo-f intel p31 chipset ATX form factor 1xPCI-E(x16)/2xPCI-E(x1)/3xpci/4xddr2 w/sata2,lan(gb),usb 2.0 & audio (Refurbished Bare Product No Accessories w/15-day Warranty) (*Limit 1 pcs/customer) $34.75 

SKU: CB24291 Mfg. Part No: P31 NEOF 
Hide Info View Full 

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewprod...OUT-REFURB&DNAME=Blow+Out+Sales+-+Refurbished


can your case accomodate an ATX board ?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Thanks Linderman. That looks like a great deal except I need a uATX. I was leaning to the MSI board that I had in my list anyway though, so that's what I'll go with.

That and the RAM for $100 (here's the total). Was trying to stay under $100 so looks like I barely made it.

Now, let's just hope it works when I get it. If not, I definitely won't have any hair left :upset:


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

 Waaaaaaaa 

Received the new MSI Board. Installed the CPU w/fan & heatsink and new Arctic Silver. Nothing else on the board - no RAM, HD, Floppy, CD, etc.

Hooked up all power (24 pin ATX, 4 pin CPU) and all fans (CPU and case). Plugged in the front panel switches (power, reset, HD LED, Power LED and Speaker) and NOTHING.

WAAAAAAAA. CPU? I can't think of anything else. I even looked up the CPU on MSI's site for compatibility and it shows "Since 5.6" (whatever that means).

I'll order a CPU - again - if you think that's what's wrong. Help please. This is supposed to be a simple do nothing but monitor my solar power grid system and it's being a real pain. The other 3 machines I've built were not this hard.

Since this is a low end box, I'm looking at low end processors. Here's the list.

Only other choice would be to send the board back and swap it for an AMD board and get an AMD processor to match - keeping the RAM if possible.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Still not working - here's the latest and I'm REALLY believing this is something simple that I'm doing/missing/etc so I'd appreciate the help (NOTE: I'm at work but know most everything I have and have tried. If you need specs or pictures, it may have to wait until I get home).

I'm building it into THIS CASE (Rosewill R379-SM Black). I originally had a MSI motherboard (don't remember the model right now) and two P4 CPUs (a SL7PY and a SL7Z9.

None of this worked so I decided to get a new motherboard. I went with a BioStar P4M800-M7 since it would accomodate the CPUs that I already had and the RAM. Plugged in the 20 pin power and 4 pin CPU power (the extra 4 from the power is tie strapped to the 20 pin and can't physically reach the CPU plug-in point so I know I have the right one). Connected front panel power and LED and speaker only. Again, no post. I get no video at all (monitor stays in stand-by mode).

After much troubleshooting and having no other ideas, ordered ANOTHER motherboard (MSI 945GM3-F), processor (Intel Pentium E2180 Allendale 2.0GHz and RAM (pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 PC2 5400. Plugged in the 24 pin power, CPU, front panel power and LED, no RAM. NO POST. Again, no beeps, no video signal, but, board is powering up; fans all work, LEDs light.

I have two other machines (neither uATX though) so I thought I'd try to bench test one of the other machines in this case. It worked fine. Beeped, got to post screen and into BIOS so I figure that eliminates the case wiring and power supply. Tried this latest (and some of the previous) motherboard/processor in the other two cases and it does not work in either one.

I'm ready to just throw the whole mess in the trash as I have 3 motherboards, 4 CPUs, 3 sets of RAM that I can't get to work. I can't believe they are all bad so what is it that I could be doing wrong? The only thing I have to do (other than plugging in power) is installing the CPU/fan. CPU has no pins so can't bend/break those and CPU cover/latch won't close if the keys aren't positioned properly so that should be good. I'm putting a thin layer of Arctic Silver on the CPU before installing the fan as well - you can't put too much to prevent it from working right? I figure even if the cooling wasn't there, I should get a beep and get to POST screen before it shutdown due to overheating.

Please help as I have no hair left and am starting on my eye-brows.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

The since 5.6 is the bios revision if you order an older chipset like the 945 it may not come with the latest bios revision which is like a catch 22 you need a cpu that operates the mb to flash the bios to run the cpu the answer is to use a cpu supported with the earliest bios to flash the newer bios to run the newer cpu.
If you are benching the system and get nothing make sure the power switch is working (you can jump the atx_sw pins momentarily to start if you need to), if you have a mb speaker it should beep with no ram installed.
By benching I mean to assemble the mb, cpu, video, minimum ram outside the case and power up if it posts the case is shorting the board somewhere.


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*



ShosMeister said:


> I'm putting a thin layer of Arctic Silver on the CPU before installing the fan as well - you can't put too much to prevent it from working right? .


_*Wrong! *_Too much thermal paste is as bad or worse than not enough, so your premise is not correct. Just follow these directions and clean it each and every time you take it apart:

Applying Artic Silver Thermal Paste

Also, here is what is meant by bench testing:

Bench Test Your System


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Thanks TW and I have both of those printed out (since my first build) and refer to them. I am putting a VERY small drop on and spreading it around until the surface is covered. If I scrape a bit too much, I can see the top of the CPU so I'm thinking it's a fairly thin film.

I'm wondering if the power supply just can't power THIS board even though it handles the AMD board? Maybe I'll just send the board and CPU back to NewEgg and swap for an AMD setup? Other option would be to try to find a better power supply, but, being a slimline micro-ATX case, I can't seem to find one that looks like it would fit in the same way.

Has anyone had any experience with trying to swap out anything with NewEgg after the 30 days? I've been troubleshooting this for 2 months so I don't know if they would let me try a different case with a better power supply (if I could find one).

Thanks again!!!!!!


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

The more I look at it, the more I'm thinking the power supply just isn't strong enough on the +12V (as far as current goes). So how do I go about finding a power supply that will fit in this case (Micro ATX slimline desktop)? Most of the ones I look at on NewEgg don't appear to mount the same and appear to be too big


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

What PSU do you have now?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Hey Wrench (and others).

NIX the power supply idea. I just received the power supply that I am going to use to build my gaming system (Corsair 750) and tried to bench test the MIS and BioStar boards; both with nothing but the CPU installed, power (20/24) and CPU 4-pin. Still no errors, no beeps and no POST.

I even unplugged everything, reset CMOS and removed the battery for about 10-15 minutes - still no go   

I think I'll just send this all back to NewEgg and see if I can get a motherboard/CPU/Fan combo, may have better luck that way? How does THIS ONE look to you guys? Again, remember this is a very low end machine. It's going to poll the COM port for data from my solar panels - that's it.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

This when you assemble it do the Bench method outside the case with cpu, heat sink fan, memory, and video card only to make sure it's not a case problem shorting the MB.
http://www.techsupportforum.com/f255/how-to-bench-test-your-system-171424.html


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

That's what I've been doing Wrench. In fact, the first motherboard that I had (over 3 months ago) I sent back to the seller and they claimed that by not having it installed in the case, I "fried it". I didn't bother to argue it with them as it wasn't worth the effort. The only thing that I am hooking up from the case is the power switch (which I haven't all the time either), LED and speaker. Video is on-board on all of the boards I currently have and I am doing initial tests with no RAM installed.

Anything else you can think of that I'm missing? I can send pictures if you want   Should I just get the RMA going for this and order the AMD board?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

I would put the Ram in it at least once then if it doesn't boot pull it and see if it beeps at you just make sure it has a speaker on to beep with for some reason they are falling out of favor lately.
If you have the 20/24 pin and the 4/8 pin power a cpu, cpu fan and memory all you need is to jump the atx_po (power switch) terminals it should do something, with out ram it should beep like crazy, if not MB,CPU mismatch is possible but you've through a lot of combo's of them.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Put in one stick of RAM (only in one of the boards though as I figure it's pointless to open the package on the other one if I'm returning it), powered up and only heard a click out of the speaker and no video. I don't see a speaker on the board so I'm using the one on the case and yes, I'm still working with that Corsair power supply. The BioStar board only uses a 20 pin power and 4 pin CPU and no chance of confusing the two so I know they are connected okay.

Took the stick back out and no beeps. I'm thinking there must be some minor incompatibility with the board/CPU combo but I'm tired of fooling with it. Guess it's RMA time for the board/CPU and RAM and try the combo board. It comes with 512MB and I think I have another 512MB stick laying around. Worst case, if I get the board to work, I'll buy more RAM.

Thanks all for the help. Hope NewEgg doesn't give me any crap on the RMAs.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

I have the new board/CPU combo ordered and should be here in a day or two. Following the bench test procedures, which I have been, would you suggest that I even try it in that case or just hook it up to another power supply and use the screwdriver method to power up? I'm thinking I should use the Corsair power supply first and at least get it to post with all of the RAM installed before trying to put it in that case - or am I just being paranoid?


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

I would just start building it if it were mine, because indications are that your motherboard was bad. Many techs on here start each build with a build on the bench beginning to see if everything appears to be working. That might be a good idea in this case, but I think you will be fine whichever method you choose.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Thanks TW and all!!! I should have the board in this evening (haven't checked the tracking today). I plan to Bench it using the Corsair power supply and shorting the pins to power it up. I have another case that I could use the power and/or speaker for, or I could just short it with video connected and see if I get anything on the screen.

I'll post back this evening with the results.


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Good Luck my friend and do let us know. BTW, only tell us positive things. :grin:


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

LOL TW!!! I'm thinking positive thoughts! Just got home from work and found the package on the porch and it is indeed the motherboard/CPU/fan/RAM combo. Can't imagine there will be a compatibility problem here. I'll report back in an hour or so.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Sorry I didn't post last night, I was busy installing XP on the box - YEAH!!!!

The board arrived with the CPU/fan already installed. I didn't want to take it off to check the thermal compound so I left it. I'll keep an eye on the temps later and do that if necessary - I doubt it though. I installed the 1 512MB SDRAM, connected the speaker, power switch, 24 pin and 4 pin CPU power, keyboard, mouse and monitor. I held my breath and hit the power switch. Fans started moving and after about 10-12 seconds, it beeped! Woo Hoo! The POST screen gave me some errors about the clock being off and such but looked good.

Next step, put in the full 1 GB of RAM with the 2 512MB SDRAMs that I had (since they match) and rebooted. Again, looked good at the POST screen. I figured it was time to move to the other case. Connected the power switch, speaker, 24 and 4 pin power connectors and powered it up. Again, a good POST.

I slowly started adding drives; floppy, CD and finally HD and all still looking good so I decided to mount the board in the case. It's a bit tight which I figured it would be in a uATX slim-line desktop, but it all went together well. I do need to get back in there and re-route a few of the cables though.

Finally rebooted with everything installed and checked the BIOS settings. For now, I'll leave everything at the "Optimal" settings until I get all of the drivers and OS loaded then I'll check the online to see what I may or may not want to tweak.

So it looks like I did in fact have at least 2 bad motherboards and possible 1 with an incompatible or possibly bad CPU. Anyway, NewEgg had authorized the RMA for the latest pair as well as the RAM so I'll get that money back. The others are too old for them to consider. I'm considering getting another board/CPU pair to try to test the other CPUs that I have and figure out if any are good - unless someone else has an easier way/better idea. If they are good, I could always sell those (I have 3 or 4 of them).

I finished the basic XP install last night before bed and will load up all of the drivers from the board CD tonight. I'll add on some temp monitor software and keep an eye on those and finally get it hooked up to my solar system. It's a good day for it to be disconnected as it's raining here today so I won't be losing too much data.

Thanks for putting up with this and me and for all of the help and support!!!!!


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Pulling My Hair Out*

Hey, you did bring great news. Glad you are up and running. Strange things do happen and two bad motherboards in a row is a bummer. Anyhow, have a great day and enjoy that rig.


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