# [SOLVED] Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help



## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

I am about to order components for new build... New computer use:

Playing only 2 games. WoW and Titan Quest

Besides everyday things, i.e internet surfing, e-mail, etc. I will be doing a lot of video processing. (analog to digital) and DVD burning and ripping.

I have decided on 2 possible mb/processor combinations. Either an ASUS M2N32 SLI Deluxe MB with an AMD FX 62 (5600+) Windsor CPU....... OR an ASUS Crosshair MB with an AMD X2 5600+ Windsor CPU. Both combo's are within $10 of each other on NewEgg. I know the FX and the X2 operate at the same speed, but the FX has the multiplier unlocked and overclocks better. Especially with the BIOS built into both boards..

My question is: given what I will be doing with this computer and with an eye toward future upgrades; which combo would you choose?

Bye the way.... Video card will either be 2 GeForce 8600's SLI or 1 GeForce 8800. Still haven't made firm decision of which one. I may have no need for power of SLI


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Hello Darrell :wave:


I know its late in the game for you; but you might want to rethink your platform choice

The intel core-2's are a much better choice right now and with future in mind also, the Core-2's are easily overclocking 40% and more!

whereas the high end AMD's you can expect to get 10% >>>>> *15% tops* with air cooling 

the asus board for AM2 you have choosen is as good as there is

as for video card >>>> thats another really easy choice >>>> the 8800 GTS 640mg which will out run two 8600's in SLI

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=432&model2=696&chart=174


BTW >>>> Intel and AMD both have a price cut slated for July 22nd for intel & one week earlier for AMD

the intel *E6850* will be released 07/22 for about $266.00 that would be my choice along with the Gigabyte GS965P-DS4

The Intel E6850 will easily overclock to 3.6 GHZ !!


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Thanks for the advice linderman... 

However, just one problem... I don't know anything about Intel based systems. Years ago when I first started building my own computers, Intel CPUs were so much higher priced than AMD, I started using AMD CPUs and have never used anything else..

I don't need to build a "super game computer". Just want a good number cruncher with lots of BIOS options and good game capabilities.

I would like to stay with what I know.

Just wanted to know which of the 2 combo's people though best bang for the buck.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

No problem; I understand and can appreicate your stance.

now on to the meat and potatoes >>>>>


I would stick with the ASUS M2N32 SLI Deluxe board as the best AM2 board of all.

The FX is a great choice also; I would even pay a few extra bucks as the unlocked multiplier makes OCing much easier

dont forget you will need a really good cpu cooler & PSU & some good performance ram >>>>> like the corsair XMS 4-4-4-15 sticks

definetly stick with the 8800 GTS 640meg (single card)

enjoy >>>>>> by the end of next week the AMD price cut should be in effect >>>>>


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Thanks for the advice.. I now have 2 questions based on that advice.

I had planned to buy the EVGA 320-P2-N811 GeForce 8800GTS card @ $280.
You suggested a 640 MB card....
That would be the EVGA 640-P2-N821 GeForce 8800 GTS card @ $390.

Specifications on both cards are exactly the same for both cards... Core Clock speed, memory clock, etc.. Question: Why should I spend the extra $110 for the additional 320 MB memory?

Second question:

I checked out the Corsair XMS Latency 4 RAM... 2 GB (2 x 1GB) DDR 800 ranges from $80 to $246. To my untrained eye, the specs look near the same no matter the price... In practical terms, what difference does it make to buy the $80 sticks as opposed to the $246 sticks? 

My proposed build so far:

I have a full tower case on rollers.... When I take the old components out and before the new components go in, I am going to cut a hole in bottom of case and install a 120mm intake fan... I already have 2 80mm exhaust fans at the top of the case above the PSU. That should make for good air flow through the case.

Motherboard: Asus M2N32 Deluxe wi fi 
Processor: AMD Athlon FX 62 (2.8 Ghz) with Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro heat sink and fan.
Memory: 3GB Dual Channel
Video Card: EVGA 8800 GTS. Not sure on memory size.
Power Supply: 600W Thermaltake Purepower (cable management)
Hard Drives: 4 320GB WD in RAID 0,1 configuration
Operating System... XP Media Edition (I really don't see the need to go to 64 bit at this time. If I did, I would buy the  Vista version of the M2N32 motherboard.
Monitors: ViewSonic G810 21" CRT (which I already have) and a ViewSonic VG2230 22" LCD widescreen. (Ordering it soon)
Sound card: (if onboard sound isn't good) The SB Audigy2 Platinum I already have.
Speakers: Logitech THX Z-5300 280 watt 5.1

Maybe not the biggest, baddest machine around, but much better than I have. It should serve me well for some time to come... Besides, can alway go SLI if I need to.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Hello Darrell


to answer your question on the video card >>>> it really depends how serious of a gamer you are ? if you spend 10 hours per week gaming then I would say for sure you should be seriously thinking about the extra (double) memory on the video card which makes games run faster and smoother, as the near future holds direct X-10 games they will be bloated for sure, meaning more system resources

There is no affordable SLI set-up right now that will out shine an 8800 GTS w/ 640meg 


****** you could save yourself a good chunk of change *later *by buying the 640 version instead of the 320 >>>> the 320 mayyyyyy leave you wanting more a year from now which would lead to SLI and a power supply upgrade, buying the 640 would avoid such a need altogether and the cost for such future proofing ????? $100.00 sounds like smart money to me :wink:

as for the ram, the version I was suggesting is this one (you wont need more than 2 gigs for XP)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145034


I would not go to 64 bit anything for operating system, the drivers and programs for 64bit are very scarce and limited >>>>> IMHO 64bit will never fly for the majority of the computer world

right now / vista does not offer anything that XP will not do ???????????
(that I have discovered anyway ??)

as for your PSU >>>>> if you already own it, then by all means proceed

if not, then I would re-evaluate that unit / the Thermaltake *toughpower *650 0r 750 (better) is head and shoulders above the Pure Power line-up

if the toughpower line is too pricey for your budget ????? Then my next move would be the Antec Trio Power 650 watt >>>>> way better than the Pure Power also. :wink:

all in all >>>>> I believe you will be thrilled and very happy with your new rig; very solid spec's ray:


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Thank you Linderman for all the advice.....

I am going to take your advice and get the Thermaltake 700w Toughpower PSU. It's not that much more expensive then the 650w Purepower. Besides, another 50w can't hurt.

As far a the memory on the video card is concerned... that decision will be made when I order the other Components and see just where the budget is. I am leaning toward getting the 640 MB version though.

One final Question concerning system memory..... Considering the components that I am using for the new build; for over clocking purposes, what advantages (if any) would I gain by going to DDR2 1000 or DDR2 1066 memory... OR would running DDR2 1000, 1066 with no over clocking be considered over clocked RAM speed compared to the DDR2 800 running stock speed.

Would higher than DDR2 800 RAM make for a more stable system when over clocking the Processor?

I have to admit that memory and memory tweaking is something I am going to have to learn more about.

I hope you don't mind me picking your brain.

Thanks
Darrell


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Darrell;


I am only here to supply info; please dont take my submission of info as pressure to buy anything!


I am merely supply info so you can speed your evaluation without having to dig for any more info than what you want to dig for.

I have seen no benefit to the ram sticks above DDR800 yet ?

I will ask Kalim to enter this thread as he has most likely tried some DDR2 1000 and above he seems to get his hands on the really new stuff even though its very $$$$$$$$$$

I can only try what I am able to sell & dabble with personally 

anyway; from the people I have spoken with in the overclocking world (spoiled young fellas, spending Dad's money) they arent reporting any gain from DDR2 1000 and above memory sticks >>>>> in fact most Ocers arent able to fully expend the capabilities of DDR2- 800 

and on the PSU front >>>> the toughpower is awesome and nobody anywhere is talking them down; thats not an easy task for a PSU maker >>>> usually there is always somebody - somewhere; abusing a unit and then hollering foul :laugh:

I totally understand the budget rule >>>>> I think you have a spec you will enjoy for quite some time to come>>>>


I will send Kalim a PM and see if he has tried the 1000 or 1066 :wave:


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

another thought



I personally would get the antec trio rail 650 watt PSU from outpost.com for $90.00 after rebate

which would free up about the added cost of the 640 meg vs the 320 meg ????

*ewwwwwwwwww hot dog !!!!* 

http://shop2.outpost.com/category/O...Components/Power+Supplies?accipterAreaString=


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

it was $90.00 last week


http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4947861?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

First.... I don't feel pressure from your advice... I respect you experience and judgement. However, I take your advice, research it and evaluate what I have learned and then decide if it works in with what I am trying to achieve. If what you suggest makes things work better for me, I use it. Then again, sometimes I decide against what you suggest.....

For example: I checked out the PSU suggestions in your last post...You preferred the Antec. I found the Thermaltake 750w works best for me at $125 from Frys.com, because I want the cable management system AND it is $45 cheaper than the 700w from NewEgg. I intend to order it friday when I get paid because I really need to reduce the tangle of cables in my current system.

The question about concerning DDR2 800 vs DDR2 1000 and above occurred to me while checking out you memory suggestion. After reading some review on memory I started to wonder if maybe running DDR2 1000 with no OC was in effect was the same as DDR2 800 OC'ed to 975. That is if the latency and timings were tweaked the same.

I also have read that RAM sometimes determines how much you can OC a processor...... Made me wonder if DDR2 1000 would solve that problem also

I sometimes get weird thoughts like that out of the blue.... Those thoughts ofter turn out to be more like wishful dreaming than good idea. LOL

Given the superb BIOS features of the 590 SLI chipset on the ASUS motherboards, I am open to explore off the wall options that might give me more flexibility when it comes to tweaking things in the future... Like the Video card memory question: A few more dollars spent today on things like DDR2 1000 or DDR2 1066 might reap big rewards in the future... I don't know. I am just doing what might be called "possibility thinking" LOL

Anyhow.... Thanks for all the time and effort you have put into this thread. Your comments and advise have been most helpful 

Except for the thoughts from your friend on the memory question, I believe my original question has been answered very well. Thanks again...

Darrell


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Damn.... looks like I was trying to write a book... LOL Sorry about the long post.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks for making me aware Joe. ray:

Hi Darrell

My first obvious concern would be your CPU choice, in exactly the same form as Joe had primarily. It wouldn't really bother me what you went for as we're only trying to help you make a better decision for yourself, but it'd make a heck of a difference to you now, and in the near future. The Intel C2Ds, even the Allendale core, is just too far of an improvement over the X2 in a few notable area's to dodge, and the price is not all that much different. The MBs developed for the Core 2 CPUs are undergoing an influx, fully optimized chipsets, and they're getting better by the day allowing many more options. Let alone the overclocking potential, ease and surety as soon as you need a little more umph.

Here's some of my thoughts out loud: Let's put that all aside, the X2 is still very good for the moment. OK. Then channel in the factor that you have some major quad/dual core price drops in Core 2 lineup 22/July. Channel in the fact that the 1333FSB CPUs are an improvement over the previous lineups. Throw in the fact that the larger L2 cache CPUs are an improvement over the previous CPUs and the 1333FSB support of many MBs made for Core 2 CPUs. Now also keep this in mind; Core 2 1st generation can be hallmarked as the processors of the whole last year, and the 2nd generation as those releasing right now. AMD X2 is still behind both of these. AMD is now releasing Phenom, Agena, Kuma and Agena FX very soon - more price drops and better performance than the Core 2 clock-per-clock. So now that throws the X2/FX 3 generations behind. Skimp on that and at the end of the year, the second iteration of Agena processors, the Budapest core with HTT3.0 and best overclocking, being fully optimized will release. Your system falls back very quickly. Straight into early 2008, less than 7 months from now and Intel Penryn is releasing - again, it is already known better than the the Core 2 CPUs and even out-classing the current Barcelona core on a few benchmarks. So come early 2008, you'll have fallen quite far behind off the mark, with dual cores, and your current MB would bottleneck the AM2+ CPUs in many aspects, even if you decided to upgrade. You can overclock an Intel C2D in many cases to 4GHz on air, but that's simple impossible in most cases for an AMD X2, many times nothing over 3GHz for a 2.8GHz will boot on the best of boards, like the one you've chosen. Multimedia and videoing is also better optimized with the Core 2. Just have a think about this and go ahead with your choice when you will.



Darrell Collins said:


> As far a the memory on the video card is concerned... that decision will be made when I order the other Components and see just where the budget is. I am leaning toward getting the 640 MB version though.


 The 640MB is better to futureproof you, as memory intensive games will become very common in the DX10 lineup. Increased memory bandwidth is always required and at present functions as bottleneck to most GPU lineups, and in the next 2 years, things are really heading to hit high up there with game/application development. Full optimized DX10 (driver/game/OS/GPU) has heavy memory requirements, and that'll require some fast VRAM, GPU processor speed, wide GPU memory bus and large VRAM to be able to play at decent texture settings with AA and higher than 1200x1024 resolutions. The tiny bit of DX10 games out already, with ~40% maximum DX10 API coding, make an overclocked 8800GTX crawl to below 40FPS. G80GTS 640MB can be overclocked to the 8800GTX levels and run very much alike to it since the difference would be very little once the speeds are all turned up. If you saw the latest AMD projects, they are trying to go for wider memory bus and larger VRAM sizes, upto 1GB already and for a certain known reason too. :wink:



> One final Question concerning system memory..... Considering the components that I am using for the new build; for over clocking purposes, what advantages (if any) would I gain by going to DDR2 1000 or DDR2 1066 memory... OR would running DDR2 1000, 1066 with no over clocking be considered over clocked RAM speed compared to the DDR2 800 running stock speed.
> 
> Would higher than DDR2 800 RAM make for a more stable system when over clocking the Processor?


Memory timings make a very large difference on your system performance since many times the functions involved are in whole clock cycles. Some RAM timing tweaks improve real life application performance more than others, whilst they maybe throwing out very large numbers in synthetic benchmarks.

Every MB/CPU differs with their memory controller and optimization, and each have different settings where the RAM runs best. TBH, an experienced overclocker knows that at times some RAM may churn out better performance at DDR2-800 3-4-4-7-8 2T than at 3-3-5-4-7 2T. There are many discreet features one has to learn about the motherboard you get. The general rule of thumb is very clear: lower RAM timings especially Command Rate, dual channel matched pairs, high frequency > better performance, higher read/write bandwidth.

RAW, CAD, CAM, gaming, encryption, decryption, encoding, decoding, compression, decompression, video processing and multimedia in general, aswell as general system usage, is affected by timings and bandwidth very distinctly. With your chosen MB, overclocking to 1142MHz on RAM I personally *know* through experience is doable and 3GHz on the CPU (333 x 9). Even more, 348MHz x 9 on the FX62 and this board, like this:



Some (HTT speed) x (multiplier) settings perform better than another. Like for instance, 275 x 11 on your MB/CPU performs better than at 333 x 9 and far better than at 200 x 14 (according to my limited usage), giving an increased amount of memory bandwidth with the same RAM and timings. The AMD system works in this way, and you will probably have the RAM set to DDR2-533 while it will be much higher if you overclock the HTT speed, working off this: 
(HTT Speed) x (CPU Multiplier) / (Memory Divisor) = Memory Frequency

Intel Core 2s with all the latest boards, are far easier to overclock and know the frequencies of, linked and unlinked through the BIOS. If I set the above system at 333 x 9, HTT multi of x3, and RAM setting as DDR2-533, the actual RAM will be running at DDR2-876. :wink:

Not very straight forward at all. If you insert DDR2-1000 or RAM at any speed higher than DDR2-667, the system will need to be overclocked to make use of the extra speed. Furthermore, you may see dropped performance if your RAM timings are higher. 4-4-4-4-12 2T at ~DDR2-900 is very good performance and the difference is very transparently observable in all benchmarks and applications on this system, especially multi-threaded.

I doubt you have the option on the board to control memory divisor, which is a big let down and a pain in many ways. I know the AwardBIOS version I used didn't allow it, but maybe updates added that option which someone other knows... ?

Stability of a system won't depend on which RAM you place inside it in itself (overclocking will though to some extent), but rather on your HTT speed, multi, memory speed, voltages, cooling, and so forth. It's a process of trial and error really, there really is no shortcut for that. Generally higher clock/lower timings rated RAM is better for overclocking, as it allows headroom if ever need be. DDR2-1GHz on your system has increased performance over DDR2-800MHz, but, gaining stability at those speeds will be a PITA, and unless it be time critical need, I would suggest you stick to achieving around 3GHz CPU frequency using a Zalman CNPS9500 HSF and go with whatever RAM speed the system runs at such speeds, with aim of timings around 4-4-4-4-x 2T, or lower, if possible. That'll be good enough for quite a while.


Hope it answers some questions. :smile:


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

WOW! Where to start... Talk about information overload.... LOL

I first want to thank you, Kalin, for taking the time and effort to respond at length as you did. I guess I will try to address as many points as I can...

First; the Intel, AMD debate. I grant that all you said about Core 2 processors and MB's is true.. The arguments you make for the C2D systems are very compelling. The problem for me is: I know absolutely NOTHING about Intel related motherboards, chipset or BIOS. I have no knowledge with which to evaluate the various options I would have to choose from in the Intel world.

Secondly; My computer is a tool I use to get a job done.... My ego is NOT stroked by having the biggest, baddest high tech widget on my computer so I can brag about it. I am not a big gamer. I play WoW and Titan Quest, as well as Diablo II. (not exactly cutting edge games) My current system already runs these games pretty well. Besides everyday activities, including watching DVDs and listening to music, I have a ton of VHS tapes I have recorded from cable TV over the years... I am in the process of capturing to computer, editing commercials out and burning to DVD. I also download TV programs recorded on my DVR cable box and burn them to DVD. 

My main goal in building a new system is to be able to: (a) reduce the analog to digital conversion time when processing VHS videos: (b) have enough processing power to play one of my games, while the digital conversion is taking place in the background. (a fast duel core processor should take care of that) I am hoping the FX 62 will do that. and (c) provide a flexible enough platform so I can "get under the hood" and experiment and learn some new things about computers. i.e. overclocking 

My interest in overclocking is more of a hobby interest than a real need. In this area I am interested more in having a processor/motherboard/BIOS/RAM setup to experiment with than any real power needs

Question... Will the new AMD processors to be released use the same X2 socket or will I have buy a new motherboard to go beyond the FX 62 I am planning to use?

After reading you post and giving things serious thought, here is my plan of action: I generally do a complete upgrade of my computer every 18 - 24 months, but never using the latest technology availably. (Beyond my budget) I think for the time being, I will go ahead with my proposed build.... In the meantime, I will learn as much as I can about all things Intel. Then, in about a year from now, (instead of 18-24 months) do another build using Intel based components. I will do what I always do when I build a new computer.... My wife gets the old computer and one of the young grand kids get her old computer... That's how I recycle... LOL

One Last Question: Is there some way I can save your last post for reference and study. It contains so much information that I haven't absorbed. 

I really appreciate the time and effort you took to try to educate me... Thanks so much.

Darrell


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Yes. Scroll to the top and on the top right border of your first post (or whichever post exists as first on the page for you), there should be a "Thread Tools" clicky to scroll down open. Choose the option you deem appropriate for yourself, such as PDF. :smile:

If you want to save a link, then here's one that'll get you back to the thread: http://www.techsupportforum.com/f255/solved-motherboard-processor-combo-decision-help-166459.html

And here's one that'll just show you the post you asked about: http://www.techsupportforum.com/976165-post13.html

Pasting into the browser address bar and hitting Enter will get you to the links.

Of your choice making between Intel components; we will all help you if need be, on every component, whenever. We see, hear and many of us like Joe, deal with these every day, so we keep relatively up-to-date at any moment.

Pretty much any newer dual-core will fulfill those needs of yours you outlined - how well, depends on the speed and efficiency. The Core 2 will do so better than an X2 or an FX, but the FX 62 is no slouch. Far removed from it actually, it's very powerful. :sayyes:

As far as I can see, Joe's last advice and comments still hold. If you plan on this, then this isn't really a "cheapy" either, it's a powerful system and you won't be unimpressed.

18-24 months is a very long time in this industry. A *lot* changes. I've no idea what will be out by then, most likely AMD socket AM3 and Intel Nehalem CPUs, but AMD made it clear in announcements that the future socket AM2+ processors (Phenom) are supported on older AM2 motherboards - sans the fact that they lose many new and powerful features, such as HyperTransport 3.0 and separate power planes (etc).

18-24 months, the current Intel Quad cores (4 CPUs in one package) at 3GHz would be very cheap to purchase.

Anything you'd like to know, just ask.

Your very welcome.


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Good morning, Kalin... You too Joe, if you check this post out.

First, I want both of you to know just how much I appreciate the time and patience you have put into this thread. With everything else you are doing, it is hard to believe you have taken so much time trying to help me with my "minor" (compared with some of the other posts) problem... Thanks a lot.

Besides the application and game uses already mentioned, my computer is also my hobby. I have studied and checked out a lot of AMD based chipsets. This nForce 590 SLI chipset really has me excited because the wide range of BIOS options (especially overclocking), It even has software (nTune) which over a period of time will tweak you system to it's best performance. The longer it runs, the better the tweak. As I become more interested in learning to overclock, I consider this chipset a great learning tool. As a hobbyist, the ASUS M2N32 SLI Deluxe and the ASUS Crosshair seems to me to be a great platform for further learning and plugging new hardware into as it comes down the pike.

Because I know nothing about the Intel world, I have a 3 part challenge for you and Joe. (a) Come up with a Intel D2C processor that is (or will be after July 22) close in price to the AMD FX 62, but is as powerful, as overclockable and has a better future upgrade potential. (b) Suggest a chipset for that processor that is close to 590 SLI in features and options. (c) Select a SLI motherboard (preferably with 3 PCI slots, but could get by with 2 if decent sound chip on MB) that features that chipset in the same price range as M2N32 to Crosshair price range... ($169 to $249 at NewEgg) Good MB, but cheaper would be a bonus. LOL Motherboard Brands I have come to like are ASUS, Gigabyte and MSI. I never had to RMA a MB from those companys. I have also read good things ref customer support about the EVGA company. I would not be opposed to trying one of their boards. 

I will then use your recommendations as a baseline to start my research on Intel based hardware with an eye toward purchase and/or a baseline to begin my education on all things Intel.

Two things you have helped me with will not change... Going with the 8800GTS 640mb video card and the Thermaltake 750w Toughpower PSU. Those 2 components should make a good foundation to build anything around.

I have 3 or 4 weeks before I have the funds to purchase the components for the new build. That should give plenty of time to consider and research your suggestions

Again, thanks for all the help.

Darrell

P.S. I am an over the road truck driver and I am leaving on a run tonight... I won't be back at the computer until this week-end.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

will do


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

That's appreciated of you Darrell, you're welcome. ray:


Darrell Collins said:


> As I become more interested in learning to overclock, I consider this chipset a great learning tool. As a hobbyist, the ASUS M2N32 SLI Deluxe and the ASUS Crosshair seems to me to be a great platform for further learning and plugging new hardware into as it comes down the pike.


 It's a very good MB for overclocking and the options.

Have a quick look at this: *AMD Cuts Prices For Desktop Processors​**9th July '07:* http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201000304


> Starting from the high end down, AMD slashed pricing for the Athlon 64 FX-74 and FX-72 dual-core processors for PC gaming. Pricing for both chips fell to $599 a pair, from previous price points of $999 and $799, respectively.
> 
> For mainstream Athlon 64 X2 dual-core processors, prices were cut by more than half in some cases. The 6000+ fell to $178 from $464, the 5600+ to $157 from $326, the 5200+ to $136 from $232, the 5000+ to $125 from $222, the 4800+ to $115 from $217, the 4400+ to $94 from $170, the 4200+ to $83 from $159, and the 4000+ to $73 from $144.
> 
> ...





Darrell said:


> Because I know nothing about the Intel world, I have a 3 part challenge for you and Joe. (a) Come up with a Intel D2C processor that is (or will be after July 22) close in price to the AMD FX 62, but is as powerful, as overclockable and has a better future upgrade potential.


I'm sure Joe will have opinions on the choices too, but here are some I would make.

AMD FX 62 after price cuts for $249.00: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103861

E6850 beats it by quite a long margin for $266 after the July price cuts: http://www.xpcgear.com/e6850.html

Q6600 quad core for ~$266 again beats the FX 62 hands down.



> (b) Suggest a chipset for that processor that is close to 590 SLI in features and options.


680i SLI and 650i SLI. 


> (c) Select a SLI motherboard (preferably with 3 PCI slots, but could get by with 2 if decent sound chip on MB) that features that chipset in the same price range as M2N32 to Crosshair price range... ($169 to $249 at NewEgg) Good MB, but cheaper would be a bonus. LOL Motherboard Brands I have come to like are ASUS, Gigabyte and MSI. I never had to RMA a MB from those companys. I have also read good things ref customer support about the EVGA company. I would not be opposed to trying one of their boards.


MSI P6N SLI 650i SLI-FI for $129: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...52-2674&SRCCODE=GOOGLEBASE&CMP=OTC-GOOGLEBASE
MSI P6N SLI Platinum 650i SLI for $150: http://www.provantage.com/msi-p6n-sli-platinum~7MSTB02M.htm
EVGA 680i SE SLI for $150: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=246710&prodlist=froogle
EVGA 680i SLI T1 (latest) for $180: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...45-2014&SRCCODE=GOOGLEBASE&CMP=OTC-GOOGLEBASE
ASUS P5N32-E SLI Plus 680i SLI for $205: http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productID=5497055&info=Tech#tabs

There are others, such as ECS, but the ones different from reference design, such as Foxconn, MSI and Gigabyte, are all very expensive. Similar to just below the ASUS Striker Extreme price of $300-350.

There's other boards around I'm sure, but I can't seem to think of any right now. :sigh:


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

My motherboard uses the 590 SLI chipset and I LOVES the performance. The only thing I'd suggest is not going with an ASUS board. As of late they've been churning out utter crap.

I support your decision to go with something you know and understand. I know a fair deal about Intel, but I stick with AMD because they've been good to me historically.


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

By the Way... Another thing to consider...

The eForce 590 SLI chipset offers 46 pci express lanes. This allows both SLI slots to run at full speed when 2 video cards are present. It also allows plenty of lanes for all the other pci slots to run without hic-ups.

As a hobbyist, I like that.


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

That's one of the main reasons I went with my board. Even if I didn't use it all immediately I still wanted o have plenty of room to expand.


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Here's a thought: I wonder how many people who complain about being disappointed in performance increase when going for single video card to SLI don't realize that their chipset limits their SLI slots to 8x each instead of 16x each?

Damn... Just finished reading article about AMD price cuts and learned that AMD is going to or has stopped selling the FX 62 and FX 70.

That puts some pressure on me to make a decision on this AMD, Intel thing pretty quick.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

you boys gotta understand, both manufacturers take their turn sitting the bench


remember the early pentium days and even the p3 days / intel was the king

The along came AMD and really gave them a drubbing

well Intel is back as the shinning star and its AMD's turn to sit the bench

Even the early unofficial reports of AMD Barcalona are not expected to get them off the pine just yet! 

I understand loyalty to your favorite >>>>> I was an Intel fanboy all during the P4 2.0 ghz up to last year >>>>> the only enjoyment there was stability; performance sure as hell wasnt cutting edge :laugh:


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

I have been on the Internet checking things out since my last post. I have learned some things, answered some question and now how a couple of new questions...

Someone suggested that perhaps I should consider buying a E6850 for $250. Two things: (1) That price is wholesale for lots of 1000. Internet prices will be $300+ when the are in stock. (2) According to X-bit Labs, the E6650, E6750 and the E6850 all hit a FSB wall at about 3.5 Ghz when OC'ed because of a low multiplier. The E6650 a little under 3.5Ghz. and the E6850 a little over.

Given the FSB wall and price, I think I will opt for the E6600 or E6700 depending on the price after July 22. I have read reports of people getting close to 4Ghz using those CPUs with good MBs, RAM, memory and cooling.

Surprise, surprise; I even found an Intel based MB with a nForce 590 SLI chipset. (which I will keep in mind) I also found 3 other chipset that look interesting. The P35, P975 and the 680i. I believe the P35 is the newest and will handle more CPUs out of the box. Other than that, I really don't have a clue concerning which one would come close to matching the options, features and flexibility I was excited about on the AND based 590 set.

I notice that 3 of the 5 MBs that Kalin suggested had the 680i chipset... Is that a feature packed chipset? I also notice the the Intel based 590 set was somewhat different then the AMD version. It seemed to have less features and related controlling software included.

Keeping in mind my previous statements concerning hobby, game and application usage and overclocking capabilities; I would welcome any information, comments and suggestions you may have concerning those chipsets.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

The P35 chipsets I would avoid big time right now / they need to mature and undergo a few board revisions IMHO

read the links I put up here

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f15...hat-asus-board-everyone-would-buy-166810.html


The 965 chipset has been a far better overclocker than has the 975

The 680i I dont have alot of experience with / I have built one system with that board and it was a flaky / fussy devil cant see myself willingly going thru that again :4-thatsba 

at this time I personally am in favor of the 965chipset boards that have 1333fsb capability I dont see any other options that have received the attention for ease of overclocking, full feauture and stable as hell as these systems are


as for your CPU choices, they are all rock solid

I like to reccommend the E6850 for the fella that doesnt want to push his OC to the last drop but still wants A+ performance the E6850 with say a 20% overclock beats the E6600 even when sqeezed real hard!

but then again the E6600 and E6700 are priced RIGHT !! thats VERY hard to ignore >>>>> my fav *so far *has been the E6600

I know one thing for sure; given the choice of 

A) E6600 and 8800 GTS with 640 meg

B) E6850 and 8800 GTS 320 meg

I will quickly take "A"


I am in agreement with you 100% I dont like to pay bloated prices for NEW release components

*I much prefer the reduced prices and higher quality, revisions of "yesterdays news"*

I especially dont liek paying inflated price tags for "buggy" or "unfinished" technology >>>> like one of those articles stated, the memory makers will receive big bucks for low grade DDR3 just because its new! that is not me! :4-thatsba


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

I like that Gigabyte GA-965-DQ6 MB you recommended to George Safford in you link in last post.. I like it a lot. I still use a dot matrix printer for blue print type drawings sometimes. The printer port on that cards saves buying a pci 1x card. ($35) That, in effect brings the price of the board down some.

I am going to do more research on the 965.

Thanks


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

You know, things change every day online. To get a good overall view, it takes at least few months of reading and activity. :wink:

The ABIT IN9 32X-MAX is another 680i SLI MB I missed, because of it's higher price than your intended budget, just like many others.

The price I've _already_ linked is $290 for a E6850 w/1333FSB with 4MB cache and HSF (Retail), on sale now as a single unit, and that's before any cuts. Many onliners are just "gossipers", so don't believe what you hear on forums where it's not a support question. The intended price is not $300 after cuts, that was rumored 3 months ago and began circulating. Yesterday I already found 2x at $290, so that was disproven.

If you want to see what FSB the E6850/E6750 on a P35 DQ6 can reach without VMmods then look here:
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5...-1.8-2.2-1.4-1.7-x0.67-1.2/cpuz_validated.png
http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino/850/1.jpg

Yeah, 640FSB and 500FSB. :wink:

One of them is an ES sample, which will near enough always be cherry picked better units than what you get in retail.

For overclocking, you only need to know what will get you to ~3600MHz. Because more than that and you need more expensive mods, fans, RAM, HSF/watercooling (etc). It depends on which components you get overall. You have FSB straps, FSB walls and FSB holes. This is what an FSB strap is on a B3 Q6600 on a ASUS P5K: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147452

Basically, higher settings/speeds *does not* always equate to better performance.

The FSB wall you mention could be on the motherboard used and concerns those processors with locked multipliers, mainly. It could be the CPU OR the MB that limits it any further, and can be generalized to the complete batch of CPUs/MBs or just the odd ones. Not all Conroe's and Kentsfield's overclock good, that's just the *generalization* made due to many that have.

That was the *same* problem with the _better_ Intel edition 590i SLi boards. A proved 350FSB wall.

For the E6x50 the FSB wall is unproven. The point is, it is better, faster FSB, and faster at stock than the X6800. You won't be planning on more than 3500MHz-fully 24/7 stable with standard air cooling like CNPS9500 with those Conroe lineups and at 3500MHz everything kept equal, the E6x50 is no match for an E6x00, that's why it was an upgrade on many aspects. E6x50 and the E6x20 lineups are known as better performers than their predecessors. If 4GHz was *that easy* on the C2Ds, everyone would be running them. See the difference of a new revision C2D core (G0) with the E6750 and comparison between the rest of the chips: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3012&p=2

E6750 ES - stock volts, Intel stock HSF, 460FSB: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3012&p=10
490FSB on air: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=425&type=expert&pid=8

Read the full review. :wink:

The following stock locked FSB x Multipliers are for reference:

E6700: 266 x 10
E6850: 333 x 9
E6600: 266 x 9
E6750: 333 x 8
E6400: 266 x 8
E6650: 333 x 7
E6300: 266 x 7

The logic people are using to say "E6700 is better" is that basically, you have a larger chance of 4000MHz (400 x 10) than 445MHz x 9 for the E6850. On a decent board for someone who physically won't go over 24/7 3600MHz due to cooling/stability, I don't see a concern. That does depend on the MB/RAM you choose though.

The P965 chipsets do not perform anywhere near that of i975X or 650i SLi or 680i SLI. They do overclock higher overall though, even the TForce P965 gets to 500FSB quite easily. They also do not have the 2x PCIe x16 or a host of additional features, and RAM tweaking and timings, is just not the same. The Intel chipsets, including the P35 do not support nVidia SLI. P35 chipset is the better overclocker I've seen from all three, and that can be seen by it's better overclocking for quad cores too, which were more difficult to OC than the C2Ds. MSI and Biostar P35 boards I won't recommend. ASUS and Gigabyte yes.

I won't advise DDR3 boards though.

The 680i SLI are *better* all round when compared to a 590i SLI, let alone the memory latencies are lower and the CPU/RAM support. They are upgrades and resolve previous issues on nForce boards. They also support 1333FSB and DDR2-1200 EEP RAM which 590i SLI chipsets do not. They handle overclocking better too with an abundance of new features. The 680i SLI has 2x PCIe slots electrically at x16 and 1x PCIe slot at x8 (46 lanes, 9 links). 650i SLI supports 1x PCIe x16 and 2x PCIe x8 (18 lanes, 4 links). Each have 5 PCI slots and are SLI certified. This is an early revision of the 680i SLI board, very early BIOS and it hit 488FSB with 1T RAM timings: http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4215&s=14
Here's another long early 680i SLI review to see how the memory performance on the board, the overclocking and general performance clock-per-clock is much better than most other boards (bar the P35): http://209.58.227.163/forums/showthread.php?t=122339

With newer revisions than in November and better BIOSes *many* people are known for 450+ FSB with C2Ds.

The ASUS P5W DH is the one MB that betters some performance benchmarkers than the 680i SLI boards.

The _better_ boards, when running the same config in everything, give a *better performance with stability*, such as for RAM bandwidth, game FPS, multimedia processing power, network speed, disk speed and so on.

The benefit is the amount of mods, tweaks, information and equipment available for the chipsets, just like how 590i SLi was once famous, 680i SLI was for now. The one problem for the 680i SLI board is the *NB chip*. It runs very hot, 80C easily without a fan, and unless it is well cooled, the board stability and overclocking will be limited. Here's 500FSB on a P27 BIOS back in December: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2124831&postcount=405

Which was quite early.

I've changed 6x 680i SLI boards (IIRC) and at work I've played around with around 13 different 600i SLI series boards since very early on, back in late September. Last is the EVGA Black Pearl.

P965, i975X, 680i SLI and P35 chipsets are best overclocking chips on the whole, but it differs from board to board. The ASUS Striker Extreme is well known for +500FSB and used for overclocking benchmarks because of the performance gains. The EVGA 680i SLI can also hit 480FSB and is used by many high end overclocking competitors. The Commando, P5B, BX2, P5W DH, S3, DS3, DQ6, P5K are the better known for high FSBs.



> I notice that 3 of the 5 MBs that Kalin suggested had the 680i chipset... Is that a feature packed chipset?


Yup. See attachments.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

awesome info >>>>> ray:




I must say though, my wallet hits a FSB wall around $200.00 :wave:


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

I just presented some information for Darrell since he was asking about keeping SLI and those extra PCI slots along with high FSBs, by no way did I mean to "push" and advertise those components. :1angel:

In all honesty, personally speaking as of today, if I needed a system, I would just by an X2 at these ridiculously low prices, if I could afford one, mainly because of the M2N32 SLI board and equip with a G80GTS and off we go! :sad:

I might even purchase an MSI 650i SLI board, an E6600 and a G80GTS and settle with that. A CNPS9500 will get me to 3400MHz with a decent board/RAM combo.

The newer boards lack at least one or two good features each, though they OC better and support latest technologies. The ones that are feature complete are too expensive for those who don't rent the White House every month. :grin:


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Hello Guys; 

Sorry I have taken so long to respond to last post.. Got back from Detroit about 24 hours ago; got a little sleep and have been checking out motherboards and chip sets all day.... Whew! What a job.

No matter which chip set or processor I finally decide on, the new computer will have these components:

(1) A Thermaltake 750W ToughPower PSU
(2) CPU cooler: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro (if Intel Processor)
Thermaltake CL-P0114 w/120mm fan (if AMD Processor)
(3) E6600 (or better depending on price decline) if I build an Intel system
(4) ATI X19xx video card... DON'T PANIC...... LET ME EXPLAIN

I am going to be doing a lot of analog to digital video processing with the new rig. Therefore I need VIVO. No affordable GeForce card has VIVO. This new computer will also be a Media Center computer as well as a game and hobby computer. My plans (for the time being) are to use the savings between the X19xx and the 8800 to buy a higher end motherboard. ($175 to $250) At present, I am getting by pretty good with an ATI X700 Pro card; so, I think the X19xx will hold me until I get the 8800.

Once I have the 8800, I will move the X19xx to the second PCI-16 slot and hook a 22" Viewsonic flat screen up to it for video processing monitoring and DVD watching. The 8800 will then handle the gaming, etc.

Now some thoughts concerning the Motherboard, processor, chipset issues.

I have looked at different chipset that go with the Intel processors and every one is lacking for me in some way. I have spent the last 18 hours trying to fit the pieces together.

I am very close to doing what Kalin suggested in his last post... Buy a ASUS Crosshair MB, (it has 3 PCI slots to the M2N32 SLIs 2 PCI slots) slap in a AMD FX 62, 2MB EPP RAM, the X19xx and call it good for a while.

On the other hand, that is a dead end system as far as future up grading is concerned.

Some of the things I need (or want) for future flexibility and expansion on the motherboard are: (1) at least 6 SATA connection (2) Parallel Port (dot matrix printer) (2) Good on board sound or room for a good sound card (4) TV tuner card (5) Good Overclockability to play with. lol (6) Extra PCI slot in case something comes down the pike I want to try, play with, or add to the system. (7) be able to install next generation processor without buying new MB

The chipset that comes closest to all that is the 965, but I can't move up to the 1333 procesors later.

Here are the problems I have with each chipset.

P35.......I will bow to linderman's experience and stay away from it as I am a newbie to the Intel world.

650i.......Reduced features. Only 4 SATA connections. Most MBs have 3 PCI-16 slots, but only 2 PCI. What do I need with 3 PCI-16s?

680i.......Allows for new processors, but expensive. Also, most boards 3 PCI-16, 2 PCI. Lots of complaints about set-up and installation.

After much investigation and soul searching, here are 2 MBs I am considering building my Intel system on.

First Choice: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6........

True, it has only 2 PCI slots.... However, it does have an on board parallel port and there are not the complaints about the HD sound like there are with the ASUS boards. So, that saves 2 pci slots there. 8 SATA, that's good. Not to sure about the PCIE-16 slots being rated at 16 & 4. Would prefer 16 & 16. Some set up problems reported, but since linderman suggested this board, I figure I can always pick his brain. LOL Oh, Oh. Just had a bad, bad thought.. If I put a 8800 in the first PCIE-16 (16) slot, will the second PCIE-16 (4) slot handle the X19xx? Hmmmmm

Very Close Second Choice: ASUS P5B Deluxe WiFi........

I just bought a WiFi capable HP all-in-one printer, fax, copier. Pop a WiFi card in my wife's computer.... Presto instant printer sharing with both computers. It has not parallel port, but $35 buys me a PCI 1x card to solve that problem. 3 PCI slot left.... SB Audicy 2 Platinum in one slot, TV tuner in the other, one slot left for "what ever". I am also impressed with the "goodie" package that comes with the MB. MB won't use the new Intel 1333 FSB processor, but I can always upgrade to an "Extreme" processor one day. When the come down to about $300. LOL Besides, I really don't see the need for a Quad Core in the near future.

Again, any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

I would double check the google search as I know the 965P DS4 has 1333mhz fsb >>>> I would have to think a later revision board for the 965 DQ6also has 1333mhz fsb ????

if all else fails; you could go up to the gigabyte 680i-DQ6 ????? that has 1333 & two pci slots running at 16X both ???? they are pricey  @ $284.00




Given your more recent "uses" for the computer with the Vivo and all, I would say your choice of the Ati X1900XT pro is a very good one

this one works
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102025R

this one is no slouch if you need to save $$$$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102025R

given your plans >>>>>>

I would investigate a little closer the crossfire motherboards that has two PCI express slots / both running at 16X

I dont know how much ooomph is needed to run the DVD movie playing "stuff" but 4X may not cut the mustard on the second card ?


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Since my last post I have given a lot of thought about both the hardware selection, and the utilization of the new build for now and in the future...... In other words; "What works for me." There is no doubt that my build will not be the biggest, baddest rig out there. Just the biggest, baddest rig that works for me.

First of all, my first component purchase will be concerned with building a solid foundation on which to expand on in the future. That will be motherboard, processor, quality RAM and PSU. I will not concern myself with selecting a video card at this time because my X700 Pro is doing a good job for now. 

Well, after much more research and thinking, I have changed my mine about my first choice(s) for a motherboard

If I build a system with a 1333 FSB (and I think I will), my first choice for a MB is the Gigabyte GA-N680SLI-DQ6. It handles any Intel processor, Great overclockabality, tons of ports and features. It looks like a board that will still be a powerhouse well into the future. What more could a person ask for? (except a lower price) This is a board that appeals to the practical side of me.

On the other hand............ The board that appeals to my ego, (and I know it is over priced) is the ASUS Striker Supreme. A great board for the hobbyist and all those bells, whistles and gizmos. Makes a gadget guy go all weak and shaky with desire. LOL

Seriously, I will probably go with the Gigabyte, but the Striker is tempting.

If I decide that $300 is too much to pay for a motherboard alone, I may go with a 1066 FSB build. My first choice, here, is the P965 based ASUS P5B Deluxe WiFi. Lots of slots and ports as well a good overclockablity. Even if it can't handle the 1333 FSB processors, there are still a lot of very powerful processors that work with that board... I don't know if my computer needs will ever justify the use of a processor using the 1333 processors.

Two questions about RAM for the Gigabyte... Because of the FSB speed, should I buy DDR2 1066 or higher RAM? Also, Is the Gigabyte board picky about RAM? Any suggestions would be helpful.

I am also still looking at the ASUS P5N32-SLI Premium WiFi board with the nForce 590 SLI chipset. I know that the P965 chipset makes for a somewhat faster computer (using the same processor) than the 590, but there is something that keeps drawing me back to that board...

I do have one question concerning the Gigabyte N680SLI board. As you may or may not know, there is a huge heat sink under the MB that makes installing a CPU cooler using a backing plate difficult, if not impossible to install. Anyone know of a good CPU cooler that doesn't use a backing plate?

Once again I want to thank linderman and Kalin for all the effort they have put into helping guide me in my decision making... Without you guys, I would still be contemplating doing a new AMD FX-62 build. Your advice saved me from wasting money on something with no future expandability.

I will be looking forward to reading your comments ref my selections

Darrell


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Well Darrell I must say your gettting to the "buy button" for sure; I can see it clearly>>>> :laugh:


I dont believe you will notice any notible gains from the 1066 mhz to the 1333mhz fsb boards, in fact if we put two machines of these specs side by side I'll bet you couldnt tell them apart!

only extreme gamers and extreme overlclockers want every last drop of lemon juice from the system! I dont read you as this type of builder, you seem more practical and want a good budget / performance ratio

given the fact that you can buy a Gigabyte GA 965P-DS3 revision 3.3 for about $145.00 (no sli !!) you would be saving about $150.00 !! thats rather serious to me >>>>> even if you saved a $100.00 on any other 1066mhz fsb board I think it would be a better choice for you, given the info you have stated.

as for the backplate, I would not let that scare you away! there have been tons of fellas that griped about the heat pipe getting in the way a sqeak, but they *ALL *got their heatsinks installed without any further Adoo / we all like to ***** SOME !

as for ram >>>>> to be confident and sure >>>> go to the corsair website or crucial website and use their memory configurators to obtain memory sticks models which are "guranteed" compatible with your intended board, YOU CANT miss this way! then email newegg or look on ebay for memory sticks by manufacturer's model number!


as for video card; I agree with you 100% >>>> if your current card meets your demands then you would be very foolish to invest in improved cards; as what benefit will they deliver you ?????


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*



Darrell Collins said:


> Without you guys, I would still be contemplating doing a new AMD FX-62 build. Your advice saved me from wasting money on something with no future expandability.


Certianly makes me feel great about my choice of computing equipment...


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Concerning 1333 FSB vs 1066.......

Maybe I have the wrong idea... I thought the boards which allow 1333 FSB can handle ANY Intel Processor available on the market now and in the foreseeable future, where as, the 1066 boards can't. Was thinking more of future upgrade, rather than processing power now when considering the 1333. You are right, I have no need, at the present, for anything more powerful than a 1066. I was thinking that a little extra money spent now, might prevent spending more for a new motherboard in the future. Kind of like I am with the AMD board I have now.

The reason I brought up the issue of the heat sink on back of the MB is; a couple of the reviews I read stated that the heat sink prevented mounting the CPU cooler backing plate without removing the heat sink. Removing the heat sink cause a raise in the operating temp. of the chipset. Therefore; they needed to mount CPU coolers that did not use a backing plate... Just wondered if you knew of one (good cpu cooler that required no backing plate)


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

By the way.... If I decide to go the 1333 route, and the budget is tight, I will revisit the question of purchasing a lower cost Gigabyte board.. I have a socket 754 Gigabyte MB in my wife's computer and it is still going strong, so I have no problem with buying another one... 

You may remember this old board... It is the one that has the aux. power card next to the CPU.


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Sorry, ebackhus.... I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but FX-62 would have been dead end for me... Look on the bright side... you can still up grade to the FX-62 LOL


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

this shows how effective the overclocking is on them http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6850.html


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Well Darrell one thing is for sure! the 1333mhz system as about as "new" and fresh as you can get, considering you must wait until July 22nd of this month to even buy a 1333mhz CPU ! :laugh:

the next stepping stone is the 45nm cpu process which uses the P35 chipset and the upcoming Penryn CPU's which arent slated for release until the end of this year. In my opinion that technology is just too far out to know the impact or the bugs associated with this cpu, heck the P35's havent even ungone the first revision yet! Personally I would not want to buy a revision 1.0 board :4-thatsba >>>>> thats almost a guarantee you will be kicking your butt when all the published "fixes" start rolling our in revisons 2.0 & 3.0


Lets look at your Wife's system as a perfect example , its still going / yet you have owned it long enough to completely miss the whole socket 939 & Am2 platforms

The same will hold true with the 1333mhz board >>>>> by the time something rolls out thats the latest and greatest "must have" you will have probally missed P35 & P38 chipset offerings ????

who knows, maybe by then AMD will return to top dog ????

there is NO way to buy a system that wont get "old" by the time 6 months rolls around >>>>>> thats computers baby! gotta love it :upset:

but care must be taken not to over spend trying to get the latest and greatest, becasue thats where the heavy price tags are!

just like that article that we linked talking about DDR3 Platforms, the memory makers will be selling low quality chips for premium money because its brand new technology, to me thats not a good investment, thats over spending for what you are getting.

IMHO buying more system than you need is foolish >>>> the trick remains the same >>>>> buy a system spec that will serve your needs for atleast two years >>>>> I think realistically you will get 3 years as your demands are not cutting edge NOW >>>>> I would forecast your "want" for a new system in two years if you were telling us your present AT video card wasnt cutting the mustard ????? but obviously it is!

its just like the people who are buying the boards with 3 PCI express slots; hell the technology is not even released to the public yet that can make a system run SLI and have a third card running another application !

Dont forget; there are a small group of folks who will receive and have the connections to obtain the absolute newest "stuff" "they" dont even have the ability to run three cards yet ?????? so why pay the big dollar price to buy a board that cant be used for the reason "you think you are buying it for" ????

BTW: thats just an example >>>>>> buy a spec you can use NOW or within the next 6 months >>>> such a system will last you 3 years IMHO

as for coolers, I will look into that topic >>>> will get back to you

however I dont expect to find any good performing cooler that doesnt have a back plate >>>> the good coolers are all huge in size and weight >>>> no way they will be supported by only the frame of the motherboard >>>> its just not possible

thats why that article *Gotowned* just linked states Intel is very focused on heat dissipation >>>>> becasue the heat can not continue to rise in future CPU's becasue there is no more margin for larger heatsinks !! we are about @ the limit for heat sink size and weight NOW

I would say >>>> "if" you can afford it >>>> buy the 1333mhz rig

pass on the 8800 video card for now and use your ATI card

hopefully that will make 

the 1333 motherboard
2 gigs of 1066 ram sticks
PSU
E6850 

within your budget >>>>>> without peanut butter lunches for the next year :laugh:


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

I have noticed a fair number of 680i-DQ6 onwers are running this heatsink

http://www.xoxide.com/thermaltake-tmg-i1-cooler.html


also you will get a taste of the flavor when you buy a board specification when it has not "matured"

the 680i chipset as I first told you at the beginning of this thread was a fussy / finicky board, Gigabyte and others have been working hard to fix these fussy's / and they have rather successfully >>>>> these boards are now at revision 2.0 !

this thread will give you a flavor of why I say avoid going any further into "new technology abyss" >>>>> the 680i-DQ6 is about as "new" as I think a preactical user should go >>>>> leave the newer offerings for the pioneers!
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=29&threadid=1978297&enterthread=y&STARTPAGE=51

This board sounds very productive NOW with the kinks being ironed out >>>> like I said, when I built one about 3 months ago >>>> it was a nightmare chipset


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

I have found three fellas so far that have mounted the Zalman 9700 with this approach

*Summary: Some people do not like the heat pipe and the big plate on the bottom but it sure keeps my quad cool. All I did was go to the hardware store and get some nylon spacers. I cut them to fit and put the cooling tower plate right at the level of the cooling plate. I them put a 120 fan blowing right on the back of the mother board. I can over clock and everything stays in the 90's. I am running a 1000 watt power supply and only one 8800 gtx for now but I will soon be setting one more in there. Gigabyte has always done me right.*


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

after reading enough ga-N680-Sli threads to get cross eyed; have come to the conclusion that its a great board, bugs are under control with revision 2.0 board and the zalman 9700 can be made to fit without too much fanfare

BTW: saw one hot shot that has the E6850 installed on this board and posted the CPU-Z shots to prove it, that rig is a smoker ! he has it stable at 3.6 on air cooling!


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Hi linderman.... I just got off the road from Chicago (what a mess that town is) and read your posts since my last.

First of all, I didn,t miss the Socket 939. That is what I have in this computer. Check specs under "My system" I really love this MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum. If it took DDR2 800 memory instead of DDR 400 and IF it had an X2 socket, I wouldn't even be thinking about buying a new motherboard right now. This is a feature rich board.... It is destined to become my wife's computer after the new build... Her computer will make a young grand child happy.

I will have a very powerful video card in the future. Probably the 8800 GTS. But for now, and because my X700 is still doing a fair job, I would rather spend the video card money on a processor or on a quality, feature rich, overclockable mother board..

Thanks for the tip on the Thermallake cooler.... I really like that one, especially on a MB with heat pipes.... It looks like the fan will help move air across the cooling fins of the passive system.

I will post again later after I have had more time to read and digest your other posts.

Darrell


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

ewwwwwwww poo-poo



I wish I would have seen you have a nice socket 939 board now ! 


I dont reccomend guys abandon their 939 platforms in favor of the Conroes and Quads !!

yes the big wheel conroe and quads are faster, but they are *not *WOW faster >>>> they are not even yippie faster :laugh:

they are slightly faster but I hope you arent looking for a fasten your seat belt adventure ???????

I bought myself an E6600 to replace my 4400 X2 system >>>> the E6600 was a tad faster but not near enough to make me happy with the cash I had in that system >>>>> I sell computers as an extra money / business endeavor not really serious though, I dont and wont work on JUNK so that eliminates alot of what most computer shops do :upset:

anyway, two weeks after I had the E6600 built a young man called me up as a referral, he wanted a brand new "good" sytem you got it , the E6600 went out the door >>>>>

IMHO the difference in performance was worth $400.00 to $600.00 but I was sitting there with $2100.00 *cost* wrapped up in that baby >>>>> the race between the 4400 X2 and the E6600 was sooooo close I was not thrilled at what I had invested >>>>> I expected alot more!

now I sit here on my personal machine with a FX-60 CPU :smile:


I would say; you may want to consider what you are about to invest >>>> unless you need another build ????????

for anyone that has a socket 754 or Intel socket 478 under 3.0 >>>> then hell yeah, pull the "buy button" on the Conroe >>>>>. or if you need to build another system, then YES I would build Intel like we have been discussing



sorry for the confusion >>>>>> keep us posted

BTW: DDR2 is not necessarily faster than DDR400 becasue of the "double" latencies associated with DDR2 you must get faster than DDR 800 to beat DDR 400 Cas 2 ram


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Did you know the Gigabyte GA-965-DS3 revision 3.3 is a 1333 MHZ board ?????



it sells for half of the DQ6 ?


yes it only has one 16X video card lane the second card runs at 4X

but for a man that happily content with his current card >>>> you are not a canidate for high end SLI ??????

hell the DS3 and the 8800 GTS 640 meg makes alot more sense to me if you are headed in the new build direction


food for thought >>>>>>


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

OK... back to the basics.....

The main reason I was thinking about a new build was the time it was taking my computer to process video files... Analog to digital... I figured I needed the an X2 processor to give me the number crunching power to do it quicker. Everything else we have been discussing has just been "frosting on the cake" on the new build.

Now you have me re-thinking this build... Maybe an upgrade is all that is called for.... Like I said.. I really like this MSI board. I can run 12 drives on this computer If I wanted to.. 4 IDE and 8 SATA 3.0 Talk about flexibility... If I ran 2 SATA opticals, I could run RAID 0,1 on the IDE and 2, 3 drive RAID 5 on the SATA. (I don't have the money for all those drives, though) I have lots of USB ports and both serial and parallel ports.... duel LAN..... lots of 4 or 5 PCI slots.......... Everything.

So here is what I am thinking:

This board does have some overclocking capabilities. (I would have to check forums to find out how much and how to do it), I will auto overclock 5% or so.

Maybe all I have to do is get the biggest duel core socket 939 processor I can , Another gig of ram, (eventually get a ATI X1950 XT Video card, for the VIVO), and perhaps a Thermaltake PSU and a Zulman cooler and I will be all set. What do you think?

Will I be able to notice a difference with this up grade to my MSI 939?

AMD Opteron 185 Denmark 2.6 GHz...................................................$235
2 GB OCZ Platinum DDR 400 ............................................................$149
Thermaltake cooler you recommended................................................$ 32
(for now) ____
TOTAL $416

The reason for 2 Gig. memory.... Memory in my computer now is 2 X 512 GeIL DDR 500. It is no longer available. Beside, if I remember right, I think I lose duel channel memory if I fill all slots on the motherboard. OR I don't lose duel channel, but it drops down to 333 Mhz operating speed. Don't remember which.

Later:
Thermaltake 700W Toughpower
ATI x1950 XT

BTW.... Just looked up what I paid for my AMD Venice 3800+ processor. ($328) Today it is selling for $54. THAT SUCKS!


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

You can get an Opteron 170 socket 939 CPU NEW on ebay for *$154.00 *

thats the way I would fly >>>> it will equal the capability of the 185 demark because the 170 overclocks better!


I would get Crucial Ballastix DDR 4000 2 x one gig sticks >>>sell off your old sticks (check the crucial website to make sure that memory stick model is listed for your board!!)


later get a new PSU and the X1900XT

that will suit you just fine >>>>>> whewwwwwwwwww that was close ray:


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-AMD-OPTERON...ryZ80142QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/AMD-OPTERON-175...ryZ80142QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/Crucial-Ballist...ryZ74942QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

OK. I'll check things out...

I was just reading another thread...... I may have another problem. Operating System..... My current XP Media Edition is OEM. If I change processors, I may need to buy a new one...

What do you think. Stay with XP or give Vista a shot?


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

IMHO no hesitation stick with *XP Pro *for at least another year


add another $139.00



although I would not buy the new OS until you try your CPU upgrade / you just might get a surprise


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Well, this thread has certainly come full circle. I am now back to planning an AMD upgrade, which is where we started, However, down a different path. Opteron vs X2 5600 or FX 62.

Over the next few weeks, a new Opteron 170, then new memory, a couple of new HDs, a new Thermaltake PSU and last, but not least, a new VIVO video card. May even take a close look at the Near $400 X2900s. After all, I am not going to be spending $250 to $300 on a new motherboard. 

I have never really got "under the hood" of this MSI K8N Geo4 Platinum MB to see what it is capable of. This new upgrade will, no doubt, allow me to do that and keep me occupied probing overclocking and it also offers increased speed for my VHS to DVD project. Maybe a year from now, I will be looking at that Intel build.

After all that, a new case and a new inexpensive 939 (for my current 3800+ cpu) motherboard. Then all my current components on the new board and Presto...... Wife has new computer.

I kind of hate to see this thread end... I have enjoyed the learning challenges and the exchange of ideas presented here. I also appreciate all the posts that everyone has taken the time and effort to make.

I will leave the thread open for a while for any final thoughts anyone may have, but for the most part, my questions have been answered.

Thanks, everyone.

Darrell


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Thread disappeared... hope this brings it back


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

I was asleep at the switch when you originally asked about the upgrade to the AM2 5200 >>>> that advice still stands ROCK solid >>>> you are going to change motherboards if you want to go AM2

if you are going to buy a motherboard then the choice is VERY plain >>>> Intel system

however; you sitting there with a decent high end 939 motherboard and video card >>>>> hell>>>>> you should ramp up what you got IMHO

especially as you are not going to see a wow-wee difference

if you were coming from a socket 754 or Intel P4 2.4 mhz then hell yeah, you would need the seat belt! :wink:


enjoy this thread has been a pleasure


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Yeah, linderman.. I have decided to ramp up the 939 for now....

As I said, in the next few weeks; AMD Opteron 170, 2 Gig. Critical RAM and a couple SATA 320 GB hard drives to run RAID 0

I may install the 2 HDs first, then the new ram. Do a fresh install of windows XP (current install running slow), get that authorized by Microsoft, then the new processor. Maybe my OEM version of XP Media Center will not have to me replaced if I do things in that order

Then later, get a new Video card.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

sounds like you have a solid plan


keep us posted


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Was called away on duty, but very glad to see progress and thanks to Joe for continuing better than I could. ray:

Opty's are server class chips, binned especially for high class performance and stability. :wink:


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Now, I have another question... two actually...

First question: How do I find out if my MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum MB will take a duel core Opteron?

Second Question: Opteron 170 Denmarks seem to be in short supply at the present time... Most places I feel comfortable ordering from have them "Out of Stock" Is AMD still shipping them? Also, what would be a second choice Opteron for value and clockability?

Turned out to be 4 questions. LOL


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

The Opteron dual-core 170 CPU is listed as being compatible with this bo as long as it's an E6 stepping processor. I found this and more at www.msi.com.tw under the archives.

http://www.crayeon3.com/c3/pc-34-2-.aspx Not cheap, but they have it.

A 4400+ or 4800+ would be a great non-Opty alternative. They're hard to find but are plenty powerful.

I don't know if AMD is still shipping the Opteron 170, couldn't find information one way or the other.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

newegg has optys


the 4400 and 4800 are very good choices also >>>>> not sure if they can be pushed to 2.8 but I know the 170 opty can ?????


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

An AMD X2 BE-2350 can be pushed to 3100MHz and at 2.1GHz stock, is *very* power/heat efficient. :wink:

Actually, 2nd best there is from any Intel/AMD CPU and was retailing $76 not long ago. Seems the price might have risen to $95-105 region due to more exposure and demand lately.

At 3GHz it beats the X2 6000+ in synthetic and real life benchmarks.


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

I didn't make myself clear on next best processor... 

What I wanted to know was: If the 170 Opteron is unavailable, Which Opteron is the next best buy?

Also, how will I know if a processor has E6 stepping?


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

Opty 165, 175, 180, 185 are all pretty decent. I've used a 165 and 175 previously and the 175 reached 300 x 10 = 3GHz @ 1.55V pretty easily and cool.


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

That's what I wanted to know... The 170 was recommended because it was low priced, but easily OC'ed to close to 3 Gig. Nice to know I can take the 175 there also.

Thanks.

Now, it looks like all I have to do is start buying parts..

I realize that this thread has been running quite a while and is now on it's 4th page... I want to thank everyone who has input their thoughts and ideas. Also, I hope some of the many people who have read this thread have found it as informative as I have.

Oh! I need an answer to one last question before I close the thread.... How do I know that an Opteron processor has E6 stepping before I order it?


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

all toledo cores are E6 stepping


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80108-R




this link for a opty 175 spells out its got E6 stepping :wink:


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

All Opterons (Denmark - 165, 170, 175, 180, 185) were made with a *CD* Part Number mid or ending stands for Revision E6. :wink:

Such as OSA170DAA6CD for an Opty 170 or the above OSA175CDBOX.

EDIT:

Check the OPN here to see the processor details: http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/opteron/


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Motherboard/processor combo decision... Help*

All questions answered. My thanks to everyone who posted information.

End thread


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