# Considering going into the career field of Network Security



## The1stTruth

I am considering getting into the Network Security field. I would greatly appeciate it if someone could tell me everything about the position. What you do, what is expected, what you work on, and where the 'best' environment is to look for that kind of work (Banking, ISP, Medical etc...). Not only that but the pros and cons of said position. I understand this may be a lot to ask for and I do also apologize if someone in the past has already made a post for this. Any help will be loved.


----------



## PinoyIT

Got a clearance or are you clearable?


----------



## greenbrucelee

you need to be crb cleared and you need networking experience first. Security is very difficult to get into unless you have a background in networking.


----------



## The1stTruth

I do not have a clearance, and I'd have to do some reasearch into becoming clearable. I'm only 20 and at the very start of my career right now. Working as a PC Tech for a bank. I'm not expecting to immediately start off in Network Security, and I know it will take some time before I'd be able to get into that position. I was just curious as to everything that is involved in it. I plan on getting as much experience as I can before I start going for that position. Once I know what is involved, I can start building my skills and experiences up to that point to make it easier for me to get started. I'm not one of those people that thinks I can start off at the top of the food chain without working my way up. =)


----------



## greenbrucelee

working in the bank is a good starting point.

Do you have any IT certifications?

If not I suggest you study compTIA, A+, compTIA,Network+, compTIA Security+, Microsofts 70-270 and MCITP Windows 7

The A+ teaches basic computer knowledge along the lines of hardware and software, Network+ is networking, Security+ is security with networking, 70-270 is managing and installing xp in a domain environment whilst the windows 7 exam is the same.

With your experience you should be able to get these and they should enhance you career. You do not need to goto a school or training provider ot get these certs you just study them and then book and take the exams.

I have never went with a tp or school for my certs because they generally overcharge or certify you to a level that is beyond your experience level which can be a bad thing.


----------



## PinoyIT

Any plans on going to college? Sign up for the cybersecurity scholarship by the department of defense. They'll pay for your tuition and you're guaranteed a job in information security as soon as you are done. You must be clearable though. Be a US Citizen, no criminal record, no excessive amount of unpaid tickets, good credit score, etc.


----------



## tim19889

PinoyIT said:


> Any plans on going to college? Sign up for the cybersecurity scholarship by the department of defense. They'll pay for your tuition and you're guaranteed a job in information security as soon as you are done. You must be clearable though. Be a US Citizen, no criminal record, no excessive amount of unpaid tickets, good credit score, etc.




WHAT????? How does that work? You sign up for the scholarship and then they pay for your tuition at any college and guarantee you a job after you're done? What are the requirements for you to get the scholarship? I don't have any credit as I try not to buy anything unless I actually have the money so I just use a debit card. That sounds really good though, where can I get more info? Security has always really interested me.


----------



## The1stTruth

Lol, after typing it all and posting I realized it looked like a wall of text so I put it in paragraphs for you.

I currently have an A.A.S in Network Administration, and an A.A.S in Windows Networking. Right now I do not have any certs, but by the end of this year I would like to obtain my A+, Net+ and Security+. Not sure if I'll have the time after getting those certs, but I would also like to get the CCNA. I took some classes teaching the Cisco Online Academy material in high school, so I am not completely unfamiliar with it. I also would like to get the MCITP for Windows 7, since that is where most companies will be going pretty soon ( as far as I can tell at least ). As far as studying for the certs go, I would like to do that on my own as greenbrucelee said mainly because I feel that if I learn it at someone else's pace it will only hinder my ability to succeed.

I would like to attend college for a Bachelor's degree. This is only because I am only 20 years old and would like to have the 'dorm experience' but when it comes down to it, I need to keep in mind that being in an environment like that there are many distractions.

As far as being clearable goes, I fit everything you said except for the credit score, that's only because I have no credit just because I make no payments for anything right now. But I do plan on buying a car soon, so hopefully that will end well for my credit score.

Also, I have been arrested once and that does show up on my record, but I was never put in jail or anything. Just picked up by the officers in handcuffs, questioned, fingerprinted, got my picture taken, and was told I can leave. So I'm not 100% sure if that will get in the way or not, but there's that also.


----------



## PinoyIT

::::IASP::::HOME::::


----------



## greenbrucelee

generally to be in security and to be security cleared you have to have nothing more than a caution/warning some places require stricter security, some places could reject you for being told off for spitting on the sidewalk. I am not sure how long warnings and cautions last in the US but in the UK its untill your 99 years old. You can request this information to see how you are percieved.

Take places that say we will train you in this and get you a job if you pay us x with a big pinch of salt as more often than not they are a scam.

The same goes for places that say pay us x will train you in that then get you a job and you will earn a great salary.

This is why a lot of people have taken to self study. That is getting the books studying and practicing the concepts involved then taking the exams. Like I said earlier I have never taken a course to get my certs and I will never do it unless its paid for by someone else.


----------



## PinoyIT

The arrest can hurt your chances of getting cleared. It doesn't mean you won't but it can hurt.

No credit score @ 20?! How are you going to buy a car? You need to get a credit card. Pay with it then pay it off right away. Slowly build up your credit score through that. If your parents have good credit, then you can ask them to get you a card. Instant good credit for you but then if they mess up their credit yours will be too and vice versa.

@green
The scholarship program I posted is not a scam. It's not easy to get in but it's not a scam. They will pay for your tuition but you have to work for them afterwards. Great catch right. Of course you can't just sign up and they give it to you. Just like all scholarships you have to meet a certain criteria.

There are many programs like these in other fields. My sister is a nurse and johns hopkins paid for her tuition.


----------



## cl0udedth0ught

Gov't Contractors also hire lots of network security people and they have tons of network security jobs. I know, bc I work for one.:grin: You will need a security clearance but that arrest shouldn't entirely rule you out. The backround investigations for a Security Clearance are pretty in-depth so keep out of further trouble and you should be fine. Get some credit, and get good credit as other suggested. You probably won't be approved for a car loan on your own with no credit. Not with this economy. So a credit card or small personal loan is the way to go. As for training, a few certifications and a 4 year degree is a very good place to start. Also, your current job will look good on a resume. Try and keep it through college or get something similar even if its part time. 

Good Luck


----------



## greenbrucelee

Well thats different then but there are many programs out there that claim we will get you a job, you dont pay anything for your course and the student ends up working in burger king and has to pay of thousands to be clear from the institution.

As for your advice on credit it is spot on. I got myself into really bad trouble years ago, my advice is dont buy anything uless you can afford it. get a credit card with a small limit use it pay of instantly do that a few times, get a credit limit increase and repeat the process. Your credit score will go up. In this day and age a good credit limit is vital because of banks not lending to people because of the economic crisis.


----------



## PinoyIT

I know exactly what you're talking about. I got contacted by some place that will train me for MCSE in 6 months for only $24,000! I laughed at them and hanged up.

The scholarship I'm talking about though is from a U.S. federal department. Basically, if qualified, the government will put you to school so you can work for them. You must work for them though after you get out of college, but who's going to complain about that. You don't have to pay for college and you're guaranteed a job as soon as you get out. It's a win-win situation.


----------



## The1stTruth

I will look into the credit card, because that is always a good idea. I'm just a little scared that I'll let the whole 'Oh hey, I can pay for this later' mentality get to my head. As for the car, I'm not planning on buying a brand new one. There is no way I can get approved for a loan unless I have some outrageous interest rate. The most I'd take out car loan wise is ~$7k add it to what I have and buy myself a nice used car. 

As for my job, I will gladly keep the job as long as needed/wanted. For right now it is a 6 month temporary position, and whether or not I get the job permanently depends on if the guy I'm "replacing" comes back or not. Which I should know by the 15th of June (the day my 6 months end). If I don't get the position permanently, I plan on seriously looking into some schools around the country and see where I'd like to go and such. However if I do get the position, I'll most likely focus on just the certifications and go from there.


----------



## PinoyIT

Join a credit union if you want to get a decent rate on a car loan.

You already have your associates. What's two more years to get your bachelors.


----------



## Armymanis

What do you guy's mean by getting cleared? I hear it a lot on this forum as well as other forums. How do you do this?


----------



## cl0udedth0ught

Most gov't jobs, gov't contractors etc require a security clearance to work there. Sometimes the hiring company will "sponser" you to get the clearance if they are a contractor or private firm. The other way to get a clearance is to go into the military. Any military posistion also requires a security clearance. The gov't basically does a very in-depth backround check which checks out all financial information, criminal information, interviews family members, collegues, work associates and sometimes even a polygragh depending on the type of information your going to have access to. It takes a few months but if you pass, it def means job security. Also, alot of network security jobs require a clearance.


----------



## PinoyIT

cl0udedth0ught said:


> Any military posistion also requires a security clearance.


No, only those that need it.

A government clearance can make you highly valuable even if you don't have experience. I have a friend/neighbor who has a TS/SCI. She's trying to get her associates in network administration and she has already gotten an offer for a network admin position starting at $84,000.


----------



## cl0udedth0ught

Yeah, your correct but most military positions do is what I meant to say. Just for example, I have three friends in the military and they all have different positions and all have security clearances. They aren't even in the same branches. Also, working for a gov't contractor, I've learned that they are more apt to hire you if you are ex-military so that helps because there are lots of IT jobs out there from the gov't and gov't contractors.


----------



## PinoyIT

Yea, they even put in career listings that they prefer someone with military service. I got several friends in the military as well. One has has TS, one has TS/SCI with FSP, and one who got deployed 2 months ago who is not cleared. It really depends on your job as well in the military. Those two with TS has never seen any combat. They had technical jobs in the military. The one who is not cleared is on his third or fourth tour.

MD/DC/VA has the biggest job market for information security jobs. But, if you're not cleared or clearable, then look into something else. Go to any career websites and search in this area for information security jobs. You won't find one that doesn't need a clearance. Even some help desk jobs in this area wants at least a secret clearance.


----------



## greenbrucelee

There are many jobs that required you to be security cleared. Schools have it they dont want to hire anyone thats been arrested for peadophilia do they?

Same goes for institutions that cater for vunerable people, they dont want to hire someone who may not be suited to work with these people.

Then there is the army etc.

The best way to get security clear is not have done anything bad then when the company your trying to be employed with checks you out then they know your ok.

But when it comes to proper tight security jobs like the army then there is a big process that you have to go through to get clearance.


----------



## PinoyIT

The thing that schools and most companies do is a simple background check which is completely different from a security clearance. You don't need a security clearance to work at a school or for most companies. It's mostly for government and government contract jobs. Basically, it enables you to see certain sensitive information. Though having a top secret clearance doesn't mean you can see all top secret information. It's also on a "need to know" basis. If you don't need to know it, you're not allowed to see it. A legal resident alien can pass a background check but only a US Citizen can get a security clearance.


----------



## greenbrucelee

Yes I know.

Criminal background checks are the first part of it then there are full on security checks.

criminal background checks have different parts like:- warning/cautions then arrests then covictions whilst full on security has all of the above plus a lot more basically speaking they know what you put on your breakfast in the morning, wether you have been bankrupt, missed a payment on a bills, how many credit cards you have or have had and very many more aspects basically speaking they want to know if you can be trusted with whatever sensitive information you have to deal with when you work for them.


----------



## PinoyIT

LOL I don't know about the whole breakfast thing but pretty much they dig up all kinds of information about you. Depending on the level of clearance, they will interrogate your neighbors, your relatives, and that includes your grandmother in some small village in another country. Hook you up to a polygraph and ask you all kinds of personal questions like did you ever go to thailand; did you sleep with any hookers there; did you ever smoke weed? The key is to answer truthfully. Assume they already know the truth and they most likely do. They just want to know if you will answer truthfully.


----------



## greenbrucelee

Yep I know a guy who works for an organisation in the US (I wont say who lets just say this was in Las Vegas) his neighbours were interviewed, all of his former employers were interviewed, His telephone line was tapped (this included spying on his internet activity), medical records from birth were looked at the rest of his life was scutinised from the age of 14 or something like that.

I know he makes a lot of money but he only sees his wife and kids 2 days of the week as where he works he has to live there in week days.


----------



## cl0udedth0ught

Yeah I speak from experience when I say that they (the gov't) are pretty in-depth when they check you out. It took me 4-5 months to get mine. Very stressful since my job is dependant upon having one. Its definately worth it though.


----------



## PinoyIT

Are you in infosec cl0udedth0ught? Where do you work? I've applied at grumman but no luck. Applied at Aberdeen Proving Ground as well but they were looking for someone with an OS cert and a Sec+. I have the Sec+ but no OS cert. Microsoft books bore me to death.


----------



## cl0udedth0ught

I work for ManTech Int. They have all types of IT jobs. May be worth looking into for you. My job right now is more or less an entry level network administrator type job but my bachelor's is in computer forensics and thats what I want to do once I gain some IT "experience". Any forensics job requires a clearance and they want you to have it before hand so this gets my foot in the door so to speak.


----------



## PinoyIT

Over by arundel mills? I'll probably finish up my bachelors before looking for an infosec job. Where did you get your degree? I have an associates in cybersecurity from AACC, and I'm transferring to the Computer Network and Security program in UMUC.


----------



## cl0udedth0ught

Yeah. My bachelors is from BU. (school in northeast PA) I just moved to the area from there for this job because northeast PA is job-starved for the most part.


----------



## PinoyIT

Glad you're doing well here. This is pretty much the prime area for IT jobs if you are qualified.


----------



## cl0udedth0ught

Yeah, this is very true. As you said, MD, VA, and D.C. are pretty much the best place for IT jobs.


----------



## Mr.Clean

greenbrucelee said:


> I have never went with a tp or school for my certs because they generally overcharge or certify you to a level that is beyond your experience level which can be a bad thing.





greenbrucelee said:


> This is why a lot of people have taken to self study. That is getting the books studying and practicing the concepts involved then taking the exams. Like I said earlier I have never taken a course to get my certs and I will never do it unless its paid for by someone else.


 
Off topic question but where do you get the books or study matieral you talk about above to get the A+ Certification?


----------



## greenbrucelee

bookshops, amazon just about anywhere that sells books.

you book the exams through pearsonvue or prometric you will find our nearest test center on those sites.


----------



## Mr.Clean

greenbrucelee said:


> bookshops, amazon just about anywhere that sells books.
> 
> you book the exams through pearsonvue or prometric you will find our nearest test center on those sites.


Thanks I'm on it!


----------

