# Amp draining to much power?



## Coolfreak

Well - I'm back guys :smile:

I'm unsure if this is a car problem, or sound system problem.

I used to have a small amp and sub installed (About 200 or 300 watts, I believe). It worked fine until the one day, my battery was pretty much drained, so I had to get a jump from a friend. Everything worked fine after that - then, I got a 800 watt Pioneer amp and two 10" AudioBahn subs (1200 watts each, I think).

A day or two after the installation, my battery was drained again. 

I checked with the old amp, and it does turn off when I turn my stereo off. I have not checked this yet with the new amp.

Tomorrow, I am going to jump the car, get it running, and let it run a good 15 - 20 minutes so the battery charges again, I am also going to disconnect the amp from the battery and see if my battery still drains. If it does, I know that it's not the amp and the battery is going bad (No big deal, I still have warranty on the battery).

I've been told I might need a capacitor, but at the same time, I've been told my 2004 Chevy Malibu Classic has a decently big battery and shouldn't need a capacitor.

So . . . any ideas?


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## jaggerwild

People don't use CAPS any more, they now use a dry cell battery for the extra punch that is needed. In your case i'd see no reason for anymore, a good marine battery should do the trick.They are very small so not to take up as much room as a normal battery.....

Here's a link to some for you to see, I'm sure you can find them cheaper if you look around(less than a hundred) should be all you'll need.

http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/fp/scat/28040/SFV/30046


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## Wrench97

I think you need to make sure the amp is turning off with the radio or key if necessary add a continuous duty solenoid(available at a good auto parts store) to the battery feed for the amp and power it from an accessory circuit in the fuse panel.


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## lcurle

Sounds like you have a parasidic draw some where. Check your alternator as well, when the car is running disconnect the negative battery cable, if the car dies, then your alternator is bad. 
Now, if you are running your car and your stereo is pounding away and using more power then your alternator can produce, then your battery will draing to the point where you cannot start your car. Turn you car off and put a volt meter on the amp to check and see if it is drawing anything, same with the car on. When the car is on it should draw with the stereo off anywhere from 11.8 ~ 14.4 volts. 
Double check and make sure everything switches off when the car is off.


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## Coolfreak

I will check the alternator soon.

With one of those dry cell batteries, where would that go? In the trunk? Also, would it have to be connected the alternator then too? If not, wouldn't the battery eventually die without it recharging?

I'm going to give it a few days, and see if the battery still dies without the amp connected to the battery.

When I reconnect the amp, I'll make sure it turns off and stops pulling power when I turn the stereo off.


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## lcurle

You dont need anything in your car to suppliment your stereo, it is not that big. If you had...say 20,000 watts then yes, following Ohms Law you would need additional power.


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## Coolfreak

Alright, thanks. I will keep you guys updated.


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## jaggerwild

If you did need it, it would go in series. Meaning you just hook it up to the exsisting wires they are already hooked into the ground and 12 volts.


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## lcurle

Connect your amp.

Single Amp:
Batt. --> inline fuse --> Amp

Multiple Amps:
Batt. --> Inline fuse --> Distr. Block --> Amps

Make sure your grouns is as short as it can be, make sure it IS NOT running back up to the battery, I have seen this many times.


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## Coolfreak

Just went outside, battery is almost dead again. I'm starting to believe it's the battery that can't hold a charge. I'm going to check the alternator right now, after I get it running again. I will post back in a little bit.

I'm pretty sure I still have warranty on my battery, so I am hoping it's the battery.


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## Coolfreak

I got the car running, while it was running, I disconnected the negative battery cable - and the car didn't shut off. I'm guessing that means that it is not the alternator, right? And that's a good thing, right?


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## Wrench97

Good thing, but not a good Idea on a modern car> Voltage spikes can kill chips in cars as well as PC's


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## Coolfreak

Does a battery lose power if its just sitting there? For example, it started fine last night, then this morning it was basically dead. I didn't run it _that_ much last night, so I figured there wasn't that much power to hold. Today, I ran it a good hour or so, so I'm hoping the power is going to hold till tomorrow.


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## Wrench97

How old is the Battery? A bad cell would make the battery go dead over night. Some auto parts stores like AutoZone offer a free testing service I believe.


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## Coolfreak

Probably close to a year, I would say. I actually got this battery from AutoZone. I believe I still have warranty on it too, from them. I am going to take out the battery tomorrow and take it in to them. See if I can't get a new battery.

I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks for all the help so far!


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## Wrench97

If it's only a year old it may not be the battery, charge it and drive over they can test it in the car along with the charging system at the same time.


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## carsey

Extra battery wont make a difference apart from running time.

Check for shorts. But you really need to know where the drain is coming from before we can help any more.


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## Coolfreak

Well, after work tonight, it started up fine - didn't even hesitate or anything. A good sign, I believe.

I'm going to take my whole car to autozone tomorrow and see if the battery is in fact the problem.

carsey - How can I check for shorts?

-Coolfreak


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## carsey

Id disconnect your power wire for the amp from the battery. Maybe remove the fuses near the battery and see if the battery discharges.


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## Coolfreak

Alright - went to Autozone, got the battery checked - Battery is in good condition overall, they said it has a low charge though.

Anyways, I went home, and my neighbor and I have found that since my battery is side mounted, and the plastic coverings with the terminals, I couldn't get a good connection with the amp connected. So after some tweaking (We cut off the metal piece from the amp wire, made a loop with the copper wires, soldered it together, then used that to connect the wire to the amp. Seems to make a lot better connection so I am hoping that this fixes it.

I was told that a loose connection can make the battery lose charge, is this correct?

I'm also thinking I'm going to borrow a battery charger and let it charge my battery over night, some night. Maybe this weekend.

I'm hoping the car starts tomorrow. I'm feeling confident about it, so I hope so.


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## lcurle

could have use a ring or fork connector for the power wire. I would turn the car on and measure the amps coming off the alternator to the battery, should read the alternator amp rating, if not, the alternator is going bad. If your amp is shut off then it should not draw power. 
If you have some cells on your battery, pop them open and see that water level in there. They should almost be full, if not get some .... distilled?!? water I think it is and pour it in there along with a 1/2 a packet of salt in each cell. The salt will reactivate any cells, but only as a temporary fix. 

Try this, start your car and turn on your heater full blast, stereo, rear defrost, hazard lights and leave a door open and then disconnect the negative on the battery and see if the car dies. By doing this you are putting a large strain on the alternator, but it should keep up. IF the car lives through that test, then turn the car off. Turn the ignition to ON not run, and turn everything back on for 1 minute, if everything starts to go dead and slows down...your battery is dying and your have more then 1 bad cell.


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## Coolfreak

Well, the car started up fine this morning. It didn't even hesitate. I think the problem might have been that when I first hooked up the amp, I didn't have a good connection. Since I did the loop thing now, I have a lot better connection and it seems that it fixed the problem.

If the battery dies in the next few days, I will do what you said, lcurle.

Thank you all for your help.

-Coolfreak


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## jaggerwild

Cool,
If it has been very cold there(I'm sure it has) I've seen batteries drain this way very quickly.Seems like you have it under control, seeing that you live up north then I'm sure you know it's a good ideal to keep a good pair of jumper cables handy(in the trunk) just in case.
When I hook into a power cable such as your car(side post, insulted) for the AMP I use a pair of side cutters, I remove the positive battery cable then cut the insulation (remove about a half inch). This leaves a perfect fit opening for the amps post to fit in there, then I use a long terminal post to seat the positive post. As Curly said a good fuse within a foot of the battery is best, making sure it is clean and secure. I then find a wire harness that passes through the firewall on the passenger side, again I'll use side cutters to remove some material(only removing enough for my new cable). I then re-seat the original harness pass through, run my cable through. Remove the sill plate on the passenger side, feeding the cable along under the carpet. Remove the rear seat (usually push in and pull up) to remove the bottom cushion, this is where the cable will go from under the carpeting to the trunk. Hope this helps you, and again as Curly said use a good clean grounding cable, short tight and clean. Always leave a little play(extra) on each cable so you can service the amp if ever need be.


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## Coolfreak

It's been *very* cold here the past few nights. (Below 0F). Which brings me to another question/statement. It seem my battery can sit in a parking lot over the day for 7 or 8 hours and start up fine after. Then at night, when the car sits there for about the same time - it seems to barely start sometimes.

Do you think this is caused by the bitter cold at night? It seems to make sense to me, but I don't know that much about cars.

My battery amp wire goes from the battery, kinda up over the hood, then through the fuse box on the drivers side, then through the side plastic coverings on the floor that seem to hold the carpet down. They just pop right out, and right back in. Then the speaker wires or whatever run down the passenger side, the same way, and then up to the back of the stereo.

My ground wire goes from the amp, through a small hole in the trunk carpet I made with a knife, straight to a bolt on the trunk chasis. The ground wire is not long at all. A few feet at most.


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## Wrench97

What is the CCA rating on the battery too low of a CCA(Cold Cranking Amps) and thick oil will make it crack slow, Also what size motor is in the car? We don't see subzero here in PA (SE) often so batteries tend to lower then need for that.


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## Coolfreak

Next time I am out there, I will get that info for you. I remember reading the CCA rating on the top of the battery, but I don't remember it on the top of my head.


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## Wrench97

Not really something you would want to memorize:grin:


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## carsey

I thought the CCA was for the starting of the engine, not for running stuff from it.


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## lcurle

it is for starting the engine when it is cold, hence the "Cold Cranking Amps" This has nothing to do with the battery life. If your battery is less then 400 CCA then you might have a problem in sub zero temperatures. 
You said the power wire for the amp is running "Up and over the hood?" It should go through your firewall, or you might rub through and create a short, which would drain your bettery over time.


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## Wrench97

It is he's saying it cranks slow in the morning when it was cold, it may be a combo of the amp drawing all night a low cca rating on the battery and worn starter brushes/bushings(causing a high draw) for batteries in the same size group usually the cca rating goes up as the price goes up the price point battery 24 month warranty will in a group 24(old Ford) would be about 425 amp cca and the 72 month warranty battery would be closer to 625, we normally see a couple nights a year over here in south east Pennsylvania with temps in the 0f range so you can get away with the lower rating especially if you park in a garage with the lower ratting then comes the - degree weather and the Auto shops get busy as any weak point shows up. Us dummies in the truck business spend the day thawing air lines out to get brakes working and get trucks running:4-dontkno


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## lcurle

I doubt it is the starter. It happened right after the amplifier was installed, so I an guessing that that has something to do with it. Like if the remote wire was attached to a constant 12+ source instead of the remote wire on the radio, that would keep the amp on at all times.


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## Wrench97

lcurle said:


> I doubt it is the starter.
> So do I but the temp swing we had last 2 weeks will show us any weak point and a worn starter draws more then a new one, suppose to be in the mid 40's tomorrow.
> 
> It happened right after the amplifier was installed, so I an guessing that that has something to do with it. Like if the remote wire was attached to a constant 12+ source instead of the remote wire on the radio, that would keep the amp on at all times.


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## lcurle

Those damn sub-zero unicorns poking holes in the battery cells again.


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## Basicconcepts

id put a toggle on the remote if it doesnt stop i had the same prob and put a brand new batt in 2 days later dead evin though the amp was turning off it somehow sill drew power this fixed it perfect and id sugest a cap for anything over 300 watts the sound will always be better bc of the constant high power flow it also keeps your lights from dimming 1 farid would work walmart like 75 bucks also try checking your power cable to make sure its the propper gauge and there is no cuts in the casing theat could short


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## jaggerwild

Cool,
If you suspect it is cold related best defense is to put a peace of cardboard infront of the radiator. This will stop the cold from hitting it, witch in turn will make the whole engine colder at first start in the morning. Another is to park so that the wind can not hit the front of the car, having the same effect on it.


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## Coolfreak

My car is facing the same way the wind is usually coming from. 

The CCA is 900, and the cold engine something is 720 . . . or maybe it's the other way around.

I put a battery charger on it all night, so now its a fully charged battery. If the battery drains over a few days, I know something is wrong. We'll see where this leads.


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## lcurle

Basicconcepts said:


> id put a toggle on the remote if it doesnt stop i had the same prob and put a brand new batt in 2 days later dead evin though the amp was turning off it somehow sill drew power this fixed it perfect and id sugest a cap for anything over 300 watts the sound will always be better bc of the constant high power flow it also keeps your lights from dimming 1 farid would work walmart like 75 bucks also try checking your power cable to make sure its the propper gauge and there is no cuts in the casing theat could short


Cap is undeeded for that low of wattage, waste of money. The alternator will keep up with 300 watts if you convert that to amps you will see why.


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## lcurle

jaggerwild said:


> Cool,
> If you suspect it is cold related best defense is to put a peace of cardboard infront of the radiator. This will stop the cold from hitting it, witch in turn will make the whole engine colder at first start in the morning. Another is to park so that the wind can not hit the front of the car, having the same effect on it.


Just remember that above 20 degrees to take the cardboard out or you will overheat your engine.


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## Wrench97

The cardboard will not make the engine compartment any warmer in the morning it may help to get a running engine up to temp but wind chill does not effect inanimate objects.


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## Coolfreak

Does my CCA and cold cranking engine or whatever look fine? I have no idea what they mean - but they seem pretty high to me.


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## lcurle

higher the better For your car, yeah thats pretty good.


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## Wrench97

Coolfreak said:


> Does my CCA and cold cranking engine or whatever look fine? I have no idea what they mean - but they seem pretty high to me.



Yea 900CA and 750CCA are high for a car most are in the 400-600 range.


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## Coolfreak

I'm about to go try to start my car. It's been sitting for 12+ hours now. The battery was pretty much at a full charge last night too. So if the battery is dead now, I know something is draining it.


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## Coolfreak

Well, it started up yesterday when I tried it. Then, I just tried starting it now - and it was dead again. The amp is definitely turning off, I checked. My next step is to disconnect the amp tonight from the battery. This way I can determine if there is a short in the amp wire.

I'm running out of ideas to what is causing this.

When I turn off my Dual stereo - there is a small LED light on the power button that stays lit. But it's such a small light, I can't imagine that draining that much power.


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## Coolfreak

Just missed being able to edit my post - but I am fairly confident that something is staying on, draining my battery when the key is off.

After doing some google searches, it seems I can narrow it down by connecting a 12 volt test light to the negative battery cable and start taking out fuses. 

I could use a ammeter to for this, right? How would I use that to find the culprit?


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## Wrench97

What kind of car? Newer cars use power for the ECM memory and radio memory, security systems all use some current for keep alive power.


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## Coolfreak

2004 Chevy Malibu Classic.

I realize that the radio usually always stays on so that it remembers the time and the memory, but it still shouldn't be draining the battery over night.

Tomorrow, I am going to use a volt meter. I've read that the battery should still be producing around 25 milliamps when the car is off for exactly what you said. If it's producing over 100 milliamps, then something is still drawing a lot power when the car is off.


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## Wrench97

No none of it should drain the battery over night my point is that the old method of removing the negative cable and placing a test light in between does not work any more because all of that load will light the test light, older cars it worked like a charm on.
You may find an accessory relay sticking for the power windows or heater fan I've seen some that the electric fan on the radiator would come on over night when it got cold and the contacts in the relay shorted through contraction.


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## Coolfreak

Alright - I'll look into that. Can I use a volt meter to check if something is draining the battery when the car is off? Or do I need something different, like an ammeter? (If there is a difference)


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## Wrench97

inductive amp meter is best a digital volt meter is going to read the battery voltage just like the test light would, did you ever have AutoZone test the battery?


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## Coolfreak

Yes, I did. They said the battery is fine. It just has a low charge - which I already knew.


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## Wrench97

Did they also check the charging system just to rule that out?


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## Coolfreak

Yeah - They said the alternator was fine too.

The guy mentioned that there might be a short in the amp wire that could be touching metal would be drawing power. 

Would it be possible to check for parasitic draw with analog meter? I have one of those, but I don't have a digital one. I'm not sure analog would be specific enough.


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## Wrench97

No not really, If the Amp wire was shorting enough to drain the battery you would have seen smoke by now. disconnect the amp wire from the battery over night see if it helps if it does then the easy out may be to a continuous duty solenoid that only powers the amp when the key is on.


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## lcurle

Disconnect the amp power wire at the battery. If the fixes it, then something in the line is shorting out.


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## Coolfreak

Well, kinda odd. My neighbor and I got my old volt meter out. With the car off and everything - something was still pulling ~2.5 amps. We pulled the fuse out of the amp wire, then tested it again. Now, only about ~0.5 amps. 

So we figured the amp was still pulling power while it was off? Is that possible?

Also, we put the fuse back in, but we couldn't seem to reproduce the drainage.

I pulled the fuse out for the night - waiting to see what happens tomorrow morning.


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## Wrench97

Sounds like the Amp is not shutting down may be transient voltage holding a internal relay closed, check the grounds on the amp, you may be able to recreate by hooking the battery back up turning the radio on then off, if you get it to draw again try unhooking the radio to amp wires first while watching the volt meter then the speakers wires.


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## Coolfreak

We did hook the battery backup, turned the radio on, then off. Then tried to reproduce it - couldn't do it.

We're not sure - but does my stereo have anything to do with it? My stereo is not hooked up to my accessory (?) wire.

I don't know much about wiring stereos - but I know that when I turn my car on and off - my stereo does not follow. I have to manually turn it on, and manually turn it off.


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## Wrench97

It can be hooked up to work either way After market radios can be different but most have 2 power wires 1 for the keep alive memory/clock the second for power which can be hooked to bat circuit to be powered without the key on or to an Accessory circuit to power on and off with the key depends on how the installer installed it, but it should be powering the amp down when turned off, unless there is still a small amount of current holding the internal relay in the amp closed. Perhaps a inline LED in the signal wire between the radio and the amp may draw enough to shut it down.


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## lcurle

dohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! your amp is not getting the signal to shut off man. What kind of deck is it?
Your car diagram:

| RADIO 12V|orange at radio |
| RADIO GROUND|
*| RADIO SWITCH|yellow at radio |*(Hook this up to the red wire on your deck, that should shut the cd player off. as well as the remote wire that keeps your amp on.
| RADIO ILLUMINATE| | | |
| POWER ANTENNA|dk. green | |at radio |
| LF SPEAKER|tan - gray | |at radio or LF speaker |
| RF SPEAKER|lt. grn - dk. grn | |at radio or RF speaker |
| LR SPEAKER|brown - yellow | |at radio or LR speaker |
| RR SPEAKER|dk. blu - lt. blu | |at radio or RR speaker |


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## Coolfreak

duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - when I turn my radio off - the red light on the amp goes off! lol. Unless there is more to it then that.

I have a Dual XDMA 7715 radio.

Here's the manual for it -

http://www.dualav.com/i/product/manual/xdma7715.pdf

can somebody tell me exactly what wires go together?


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## lcurle

All these wires start from the harness on your cd player:
Blue wire -> remote input on amplifier
Blue RCS's -> Input RCA's on your amplifier
Black - > ground to chassis
Red ->Yellow wire from stock CD player
Yellow -> Orange from stock CD player
Violet/black (-) -> dark blue stock cd player
violet (+) ->light blue stock cd player
Gray/black (-) -> Light Green
Gray (+) -> Dark Green
Green/Black (-) -> Brown
Green (+) -> Yellow
White/black (-) -> Tan
White (+) -> Gray


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## Coolfreak

Tomorrow I am going to take out the stereo and see what exactly is connected to what.

Okay, what is my constant wire from my car? Yellow? If so, why would I have a speaker hooked up to that?


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## lcurle

different guages of wire, there will be a thicker wire for the constant power, the other yellow will be like an 18AWG ws the 14AWG for the power. Just remember, the thicker yellow is the power. It will be beside the red and black in the harness btw.


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## Coolfreak

I think I might have just found the problem. 

My friend and I were sitting at work talking about the problem.. then we thought of something. I have an ipod cable that plugs into the back of the stereo and then charges my ipod and plays my ipod. We thought it might still be charging the ipod even when the car and stereo have off. We went out, and low and behold, my ipod was still being charged even with everything off. I never unplug my ipod either, so it explains everything.

I'm hoping this is the problem.


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## Wrench97

I doubt it my daughters Ipod stays plugged in all the time.


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## jaggerwild

I can't see a Milli-volt draw killing a battery but I've seen weirder stuff so..........


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## Coolfreak

:-( I was kinda hoping this would be the problem. It's snowing pretty good here, so I won't be driving anytime soon today - we'll see what happens tomorrow morning.

Edit -- Is it at all possible that there was a problem with the cable and it was drawing more power than it should be? Or something in that nature? Maybe a short in the wire? I'm trying to convince myself that the cable was the problem. I'm getting sick of this problem.

Not sure if it helps at all - but sometimes when I am driving, listening to the Ipod through the stereo - the stereo switches to the radio instead of the Ipod input. I found out the Ipod shuts off, and thats why it switches to the different input. My stereo doesn't allow me to choose the Ipod input unless an ipod is on and plugged into the cord.


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## Wrench97

It may be that the Ipod is tripping the amp relay or keeping the circuit alive to the AMP though upon further thought.


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## jaggerwild

wrench97 said:


> It may be that the Ipod is tripping the amp relay or keeping the circuit alive to the AMP though upon further thought.


 Thats gotta be it, cause in effect the stereo thinks the head unit is still on. So the trun on lead is staying on(open) witch is the drainer here, simple fix run the turn onlead from an ignition controled source. That should do it then...................
Give that man a LEGO kit ray:


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## lcurle

If the Ipod is not on "Hold" then it is always "open" for faster reaction time when coming out of stasis. Is the Ipod hooked up through the Ipod dock on the back of the stereo? If so, put your Ipod on hold when you leave the car and it will go into sleep mode and when it is finished charging it will shut off.


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## lcurle

did you mention an Ipod in your earlier posts??


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## Coolfreak

lol, no - I just thought the Ipod wouldn't be charging if the stereo is off.

Bad news though - Just went to start it - and it BARELY started. It's hard to explain, but everything went dim, and it sounded like the battery used its last ounce of power to start the vehicle. I think I still have another drain, somewhere else. I can't be positive about this yet, but I think so.

But! when I took the head unit out to unplug the Ipod cord - I came upon two discoveries.

1. The blue wire coming from the stereo - is _not_ hooked up to anything. (But, the amp *does* turn off with the stereo.)(That doesn't make sense to me. .)


2. There are also _two_ orange wires (I thought they came from the stereo, but in the diagram, there is no orange wires, so I guess it came from the car?). These two orange wires are not hooked up to anything, nor are they hooked up together. They are two seperate wires.

Does this help?


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## lcurle

The yellow wire on your Dual Cd player should be connected to an orange wire for Constant 12+ power.
The blue wire should be connected to your amplifier, trace which wire your current remote signal is connected to, this may be the problem.


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## Coolfreak

What orange wire though? There was two of them, I know that for sure. One of them _might_ have been orange and white - can't verify that though until I rip the stereo out again.

So you want me to find out which remote wire running from the amp is connected to, right?


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## lcurle

yes, find out what the wire connected to the remote spot on your amp is connected to.

orange and white mightbe illumination as well....have to check my database again.


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## Coolfreak

Alright - weather here is really bad, I won't be able to check today - I am hoping to get to it tomorrow. I have the night off tomorrow, so depending on the weather, I should be able too.

Let me know about the orange wires. If it's illumination, then the stereo shouldn't be lighting up, should it be? But it does. .


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## Wrench97

One should tie into the dash lights so the radio dims at night, used to be for the bulb in the old radio dials. The second I would guess is accessory power, hot when the key is on.
Does your car have the feature where everything stays on until you open the door?


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## nonamedsomebody

where does your amp wire run through at? if it is running though the firewall/ trunk make sure at that point the wire hasn't been worn through.


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## Coolfreak

wrench - It does have that feature! Or did. . . Should those wires be connected somewhere?

nonamedsomebody - We've covered that already, sorry


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## lcurle

wrench97 said:


> Does your car have the feature where everything stays on until you open the door?


unsure of that year but 08's have that feature. 
here is everything I have on the malibu:

| ITEM | WIRE COLOR |POL| WIRE LOCATION |
| 12V|red |+ |ignition harness *1 |
| STARTER|yellow |+ |ignition harness *1 |
| IGNITION|pink |+ |ignition harness *1 |
| SECOND IGNITION|dk. green |+ |ignition harness *1 |
| ACCESSORY|orange |+ |ignition harness *1 |
| SECOND ACCESSORY|brown |+ |ignition harness *1 |
| POWER LOCK|white |- |drivers kick panel in |
| POWER UNLOCK|same wire |*2 |a black plug |
| LOCK MOTOR|gray | |drivers kick panel |
| UNLOCK MOTOR|tan | |drivers kick panel |
| DISARM DEFEAT|tan | |passenger kick panel |
| PARKING LIGHTS +|brown | |passenger kick or column |
| PARKING LIGHTS -| | | |
| HEADLIGHTS|dk. blue & pink |*3 |steering column |
| DOOR TRIGGER|*4 |- |*4 |
| DOME SUPERVISION|white |- |dash light or column |
| TRUNK/HATCH PIN|orange/black |- |trunk light |
|TRNK/HTCH RELEASE|black/white  |+ |drivers kick panel |
| TACHOMETER|purple/white | |ignition coil or ECM *5 |
| SPEED SENSE|dk.green/white | |ECM *5 |
| BRAKE WIRE|lt. blue |+ |at the switch |
| HORN TRIGGER|black |- |steering column |
| WIPERS|dk. grn & purple |+ |steering column |
| LF WINDOW UP/DN|dk. blue - gray |A |drivers door switch |
| RF WINDOW UP/DN|lt. blue - tan |A |drivers door switch or kick |
| LR WINDOW UP/DN|dk. green - pur/wht |A |drivers door switch or kick |
| RR WINDOW UP/DN|lt. green - purple |A |drivers door switch or kick |
| SUN RF OPN/CLOSE|blue - green |A |sunroof motor |
| SUN ROOF LIMIT| | | |
| RADIO 12V|orange |+ |at radio |
| RADIO GROUND| | | |
| RADIO SWITCH|yellow |+ |at radio |
| RADIO ILLUMINATE| | | |
| POWER ANTENNA|dk. green | |at radio |
| LF SPEAKER|tan - gray | |at radio or LF speaker |
| RF SPEAKER|lt. grn - dk. grn | |at radio or RF speaker |
| LR SPEAKER|brown - yellow | |at radio or LR speaker |
| RR SPEAKER|dk. blu - lt. blu | |at radio or RR speaker |


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## Wrench97

I don't know the wire colors on the newer GM's but there usually are an abundant number of wires that don't go to anything(for accessories not installed) but if they look cut or don't have ends on them they probably went to the factory radio.


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## Wrench97

Test light on the orange and orange/black will tell you when they are hot, whoever installed the radio may also have bypassed them and run to the fuse box or through a noise filter.


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## Coolfreak

Since the amp turn on wire isn't connected to the blue remote wire from the stereo - is it possible that the amp is still drawing power even when it's off.

The weird thing is, the amp still turns on/off with the stereo - even with it not connected to the remote turn on wire. Is that even possible?


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## Wrench97

I wouldn't think so, unless the light only comes on when there is audio inputs.


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## nonamedsomebody

the amp should not (wake up) with just audio input. there needs to be a 12v signal sent to say hey wake up. Make sure your wires at the amp aren't crossing over to other contacts like the 12v main touching the remote wire jack.


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## lcurle

you will have to test the orange wires to see if they lose power when the door is opened after the radio has been turned on.


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## lcurle

nonamedsomebody said:


> the amp should not (wake up) with just audio input. there needs to be a 12v signal sent to say hey wake up. Make sure your wires at the amp aren't crossing over to other contacts like the 12v main touching the remote wire jack.


couldnt be an arc


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## Coolfreak

Lee - If I am reading your information right - the orange wire is the constant? 

What is a Radio Switch?


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## lcurle

radio switch is the wire that only turns on when the car is started, or in the "on" position


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## jaggerwild

> is it possible that the amp is still drawing power even when it's off.
> The weird thing is, the amp still turns on/off with the stereo - even with it not connected to the remote turn on wire. Is that even possible?
> 
> 
> 
> That would indicate that the constant is not a(TRUE) constant but a switching power, witch is not good. This wire should go straight to the positive battery terminal with a fuse within one foot of it.
> 
> The Turn on lead for the radio(and this car has it as mine does too) will only power off after the ignition is turned off and either the drivers door is opened or 15 minutes (delay)latter, witch ever comes first. I'm gonna be over here in the corner(playing with ma LEGO'S) so as not to confuse you with too many people giving input. Witch makes it harder to reason(help you) need me just knock!
Click to expand...


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## Coolfreak

Car was dead again this morning. Some things came up and couldn't rip the stereo out and look around tonight. 

I am definitely going to do it tomorrow though. I will let you know what all I have connected.


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## Coolfreak

Well - after hours with my neighbor - We think we might have figured it out. We found the amp was hooked up to the remote turn on wire - I just must have didn't see that.

Anyways, we found out that the orange wire is a switchable power after testing it, so we hooked it up to the stereo and now the stereo won't turn on without the car on.

After that, we went to the battery and tested how much it's drawing without the car on or anything. It's pretty much drawing like. . . 1/3 or even 1/4 of an amp. Which is about normal, in my eyes.

I'm hoping this is it, the car has been sitting for just about 12 hours now, and in a few, I am going to see if it will start.


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## jaggerwild

Cool!
Good luck!


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## lcurle

hoorah....wire diagrams are fun....and my wife's candles smell AWESOME!!!!!!


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## Coolfreak

Update!!!!!!!!! Lee, your information is wrong. Orange = headlights. This wire only has power when the head lights are on! (So my radio only worked if the lights were on) Orange/white is dashboard illumination. 

Anyways - there is only *one* wiring harness that will work correctly for the 2004 Chevy Malibu. It's $100. Reason being, is that the ignition switch wire only has like a few volts, or something like that. It needs to be converted, by this specific wiring harness. 

I went to a professional, and he knew exactly my problem. I'm having him install everything professionally. 

Lee - You should have known this! You are a professional!!!!

Thank you so much everybody. Lee, Wrench, Jagger - you guys were a big help!


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## lcurle

car manufacturer change harnesses like milk changes expiration dates. I can get close but then I have testing equipment that dwarfs and consumer bought products for futher diagnostic. Yeah my wire colors may have been off, but you figured it out in the end.
oh and I have never had a newer then 99 malibu in my shop...these newer cars with intergrated everything are a real PITA to work on.


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## Coolfreak

I got the car back today - everything is working fine!

I'm hoping this was the battery problem too - we'll see tomorrow.


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## Wrench97

I think you'll find out Wednesday or Thursday morning after the snow when the temps drop back down.


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## Coolfreak

Car started up fine this morning - good sign.

New problem though. I have a 800 watt Pioneer amp. It has two 30A fuses in the side. Problem is, they seem to keep blowing. I have a friend with pretty much the same amp, but only 760, I believe. He never blew those fuses. Why are these fuses blowing? Someone told me that the amp is getting to much power and not enough leaving it. I checked my ground wire, and it's directly screwed to the chasis.

I have no idea about these fuses, or what they do. Also, how much wattage do you think I am actually getting to the subs? I heard that I'm probably only getting about 400 watts to the subs, so that means only about 200 watts to each sub, since I have two 10" subs. Is this true?

I am looking into a new amp, and I would like to push at least 500 watts to each sub, if not more. I am going to pull out the subs and see what watts they are. They are either 800 or 1200, I can't remember.


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## jaggerwild

I think Lee was playing with his LEGO collection and monitoring the posts too.....:laugh: 

Glade to see you got it fixed, sorry it took so much work/time. I was just thinking of the wire harness that goes to that radio, and how small the plug/molex is.

You have to understand with the internet(I'm sure you know) many things can be assumed, or misinterpreted. I'm probably more to blame for missing the fix(like the harness) than anybody, as that harness can not be just spliced into. it needs a adapter to use the factory wires, many newer cars have this issue(ESPECIALLY now a days). Long gone are the days when somebody can just grab some electrical tape, butt connectors and a basic test light to install an after market radio. 

I just googled that harness to see all the different wire schemes, look what I found  (read the last post):4-dontkno

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f155/chevy-malibu-2003-stereo-wiring-diagram-50490.html

Again just glade you got it fixed!(Can we get Lee banned now?) :4-poke2:


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## lcurle

If anyone here has sat inside a 09 porshe you would see the integration is so intense. Dash kits are now reachin in the hundred of dollars for an aftermarket conversion. Alot of the new car owners are going with line level converters so they do not have to change the stock radio out.

What is the size of the fuse at the battery? is it more then the two fuses by the amp? 
If it is smaller, then the issue is with the amplifier and the "GROUND CONNECTION" ground should be no longer then 24 inches and be the same size or larger then the power wire coming in. If it is secured to the chassie then make sure the paint has been sanded away and there is a good connection to the bare metal, the car will do the rest. Make sure there is not 1 little strand of wire that is touching the 12+ side of the amp from the ground, you can eliminate this by using fork terminals for the connection.

1000 watt 2 channel amp will put out 500 to each channel, effectivley giving each subwoofer 500watts, estimated. If the amp RMS if 500 watts then each sub will get 250 watts, dont worry about the peak power, worry about RMS. RMS is the continuous power the amp can provide all day long, peak power is just a selling point. If both of your subs are 300 watts RMS each @ 4ohm and you get a 500 watt RMS amp that is 2ohm stable, then you can bridge the subwoofers and give each one 500 watts @ 2 ohm wichi is fine for the subs, as long as you tune the amp correctly. See ohm's law.


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## lcurle

jaggerwild said:


> Again just glade you got it fixed!(Can we get Lee banned now?) :4-poke2:


Turn in your Lego Maniacs club card...and no more free hamburgers for you!!!


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## Coolfreak

I just looked up my subs - 1200 watts each.

I am looking at this amp:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11852_Boss+D800.2.html#

So, about this RMS thing . . it can only really do 260 watts to each sub? That can't be right. .


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## lcurle

That sub is:
RMS Power Rating: 4 ohms: 260 watts x 2 chan. 
Max power output: 800 watts x 2 chan. 

The max power is determined by upping the boost to 100% and the volume to 100%, which would distort all sound going through it.
Your subs are 1200watt ....but that is not RMS I wouldnt think, if so then they are way over rated. If you match the RMS of your subs (add both of them together, so 600RMS would be 1200 total RMS) then find an AMp that has 1200 RMS or close to it.

Check This out:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_5425_Soundstream+PCA2.760.html 

I remember when this brand first came out, I was at the release back in 1997, very impressive numbers and pretty well priced as well.


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## Coolfreak

Yes, I just checked - my subs are 600 RMS each. I am at work, so I can't look at that amp right now - I will look at it tonight though.

So I am looking for an amp with 1200 RMS? Is that even possible? The Boss one, I found, was only 520 (I am guessing I times 260 by two since there are two channels, I could be wrong)


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## lcurle

Most amps will say what they are in 2 channel. Now there are ways around the RMS ratings. IF an amp says it is 400 Watt RMS x 2 @ 4ohm, then you can wire your subwoofers in series, which makes them now operate as a 2ohm subwoofer, and then the amp will be 800watt RMS x 2 @ 2ohm, your subwoofers are now getting the required amount of power. As long as the amp is 2 ohm stable and your are not "overclocking" the amplifier (going higher then MAX power)


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## Coolfreak

So . . that Boss amp, won't work well with my subs? I am really confused.

You told me to look at the soundstream one, but that one is only 380 x 2.

I thought you told me to look for 1200? You really are confusing me Lee. . .


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## lcurle

the soundstream amp is: 760 Watts x 1 Channel @ 4 Ohms (Bridged) if you bridge your subs then they will get 760 watts each far exceeding the RMS on them but not exceeding the Max power. bridging your subs together make the amp think there is one subwoofer, so each one will get 760 watts.


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## Coolfreak

So, if I bridge them - then the amp is thinking it's only pushing 760, but it's really pushing 1520, right?

If so, then this amp wouldn't work, would it? Because - then it would be pushing 1520 (Which exceeds the max limit of the amp. . .)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7725_SPL+DK2-1500.html

But this one could, right?
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7727_SPL+DK2-2000.html


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## lcurle

The first amp would only push a max of: Bridged, @ 4 ohms: 760 watts x 1 chan. 
disregard the max power on amps, they are worthless. What you need to look is the stability of the amp at certain Ohm's, and the power it can push.
The first amp would give each subwoofer, 760 watts, so the amp would push 1520, roughly.

The second amp would push: Bridged, @ 4 ohms: 880 watts x 1 chan. See the "x 1 chan." that means you hook the amp up bridged to the subs, each sub gets 880 which is 1760 from the amp. Are you following now?

Either amp will work since your subwoofers RMS is only 600 watts.


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## Coolfreak

Ohhh, okay. So the amp can push more than the max power if the subs are bridged.

I understand now.

How do you bridge subs?


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## carsey

Hmm, wouldwiring them up to different ohm's now damage the sub as Im sure that some I have looked at are only 4 ohm, 2 ohm or 1 ohm.

It probly wont do the amplifier any good at all, will be running very hard which will limit its life dramatically.


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## lcurle

if the amp is stable at the seried ohms, then it would be fine, The subs will be 4ohm so there will be no damamge to them at all. I have been installing and wiring systems up like this for years, have yet to blow apart a subwoofer....well....except for a sony Xplode..that literally exploded, but that was with 5000 watts


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## Coolfreak

I looked up how to bridge an amp - and it looks like I would only be able to use one sub then - not two. How would I use both subs?


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## lcurle

http://customcaraudio101.com/wire.aspx it is a series/bridged hybrid that you will be doing. You can also attached the + of one sub to the + of the other sub, then that goes to the + of the amp, save with the negative.


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## Coolfreak

So I don't want to do the series wiring then - I would want to do something like the bridges wiring - except with both positives twisted together and both negatives twisted together.

Like this:


Disregard that black dot near the top of the amp... I don't know how it got there, but it did, lol. I suck at drawing, you don't have to tell me.


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## Coolfreak

I was told that setting up the amp like the picture above is bad for the amp. Also, would it be bad that it would be running the subs at 2OHM and the subs are 4OHM?

I'm having trouble finding an amp that has an RMS number of 600 watts. They aren't exactly easy to find. I found a few, but it's weird that I would have to set it up like the picture above. I would think the amp would only push 600, so only sub is really only getting 300. How does the amp know it has to push double the amount?


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## carsey

Have you looked at class D amps?


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## Coolfreak

I've looked at all the classes, but still not sure what I should get, or how many watts I should get, etc.

It's just really confusing.

Edit -- Alright - after much research, I think I narrowed it down.

How about this amp?
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8847_Power+Acoustik+PS2-1800.html

It says it's bridgeable: 760 watts x 1 channel. @ 4 Ohms.

My subs are 4 Ohms, so I figure thats good.

I'm still not sure about the wiring. If I hook it up like the picture I drew, supposedly each sub is going to get 760, correct?

Also, what gauge wire do I need to power this? I'm pretty sure I have 8 gauge wire right now, which I am sure won't be enough.


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## lcurle

run them parallel as my diagram states above.


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## Coolfreak

That's it? Nothing else? Then the amp won't be bridged, would it?


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## lcurle

nope, run it like that and you will be fine.


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## Coolfreak

How many watts would each sub get then?


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## lcurle

whatever the RMS X 1 is ...760watts


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