# Random freeze, with working cursor!



## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Hey! This is my first post on this forum, hope i posted in the right thread:whistling:
I found others with simmular problems, but have tried their solutions, did not work for me.
So the problem is that my computer(my pc litterally froze at this point:angry:, thanks chrome for restoring recent history) randomly do these freezes, where i can move the cursor, but nothing on the screen is responsive. CTRL-ALT-DLT, ALT-TAB, all those are unresponsive aswell, i am not very patient, but i waited 15 minutes a while ago, and nothing happened. The only temporary fix i found, was to force it to shut down at the power button. This happens, as mentioned, randomly, even while surfing the web which shouldnt take much power. 
Now i got so frustrated that i decided to fully wipe my secondary HDD and completely reset OS and everything on my primary SSD, but not even that worked... I am no expert on these more complex complications, any help is very appreciated!

(Recently i havent been using my pc alot, because i have been busy with school, so i havent really noticed when this first occured.)

My spec (using speccy, let me know if you need more info.)
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
Intel Core i7 4790 @ 3.60GHz	49 °C
Haswell 22nm Technology
RAM
8,00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 799MHz (10-10-10-30)
Motherboard
MSI B85M-E45 (MS-7817) (SOCKET 0)	31 °C
Graphics
BenQ RL2455 ([email protected])
2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 (MSI)	30 °C
Storage
931GB Seagate ST1000DX001-1CM162 (SATA)	30 °C
232GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB (SSD)	31 °C
Optical Drives
No optical disk drives detected
Audio
Realtek High Definition Audio


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Hi and Welcome to TSF!

Let's take a look at your system temperatures. Follow this guide here:

How to check your system temperatures - Tech Support Forum


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Thank you for your reply!
Here is my temperatures.
(Okay so as i said i just reset my entire pc, so i dont really have any heavy games, and it would take many hours to install them, so i ran a benchmark which did some heavy 3d graphics and such, first attempt even froze the pc! This is my results from userbenchmark.com
UserBenchmarks: Game 52%, Desk 84%, Work 53%
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 - *86.4%*
GPU: Nvidia GTX 960 - *48.6%*
SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB - *107.1%*
HDD: Seagate Desktop SSHD 1TB - *88.1%*
RAM: HyperX Fury DDR3 1600 C10 2x4GB - *57.9%*
MBD: MSI B85M-E45 (MS-7817)

And the temperatures(it went all up to 80C under the heavy test, as you can see under max):
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Windows 7? That sounds kinda scary, havent been using that for years, and never on this PC.
Is that neccessary?, and if yes, then how do i do it?
Thanks!


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Please disregard the Windows 7 "solution" post as I removed it as completely irrelevant and lets move forward.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Normally the first place I would look would be the hard drive but there are none better than the Ssd drive you have. Then I would look at the video card and once again you have a good video card. I would run checkdisk on the Ssd drive anyway.
https://www.tekrevue.com/tip/fix-hard-drives-chkdsk-windows-10/
That said I never have good luck with Hyper-X ram so running memtest 86 makes sense.
MemTest86+ - Test RAM - Windows 10 Forums
And finally 80c is way too high for cpu....have you opened up system and blown out with a "can of air"?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Testing the memory is a good idea.

Do you have Samsung Magician installed on this machine? If so, what does it say your total writes are?

As for the CPU temp, while it is high at 80C, it won't cause harm or freezing.


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

I ran the chkdsk, it said in the guide that it might take some time, however my reboot with the "Scanning and repairing..." took about 5sec. So i assume it found no flaws, i also noticed that i recognized the "Scanning and repairing.." (attached picture) It would say that about 5/10 times when booting after the freeze, it would take probably 10-40sec. Anyways, kinda confused how to check my results after the test, if thats even neccessary?

I just read the MemTest guide and it says its best to run overnight, because it will take alot of time. So i figured i would just reply now and take the test afterwards, perhaps it wont take that long, we'll see.

You think i should find a youtube guide or something and try to clean my PC?


Attached a file with my Samsung Magician Results.

(Just remembered something, i dont know if it might be useful, but whenever the freeze happens and i instantly force restart it, it is much more likely to freeze again shortly after, especially if i start to many procceses. 
That sounds to me as a possible heat problem? Dont know, you're the experts!)

Thanks again, both of you!:smile::smile:


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Actually to me that sounds more like hard drive issue because everytime you do a hard shutdown that can score the drive.


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## Elf_nick (Oct 6, 2016)

Sorry, perhaps I give strange advice...
I just want to say, the first need detect the problem it is Hardware or Software...


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Ah! There you see, i was wrong. But that's interesting, any recommended tests?
Status on MemTest: 3/8 passes, CPU 81C and no errors found yet.
No problem Nick, appreciate it!


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

3 passes of 8 full segments is more than enough to prove ram is not the issue.
I guess the next step is to scan for Malware. Rather than give you a few generalized programs what we really should do is send you to the pros in our Malware Forum.

http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...-posting-for-malware-removal-help-305963.html


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Well i ended up doing 12/8 passes and still no errors found.. Will begin the malware scans when i get home, but is it possible to have malware after a full pc restore? Shouldnt everything have been erased?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

If you did a reformat, not just a reinstall and did not transfer any old files to new system then no it would be virtually impossible.


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

I reformatted my HDD and restored my windows 10 using their restore tool in the settings, i chose "erase all personal files..." however it did ask if i wanted to do it thoroughly or fast, the fast option if you were keeping the pc, and the thorough for if you were selling it. I chose the quick one.

I think i will try to clean my CPU fan now, then run malware test afterwards (if needed)


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Alright, i cleaned my CPU heatsink, which was literally as dusty as it possibly could be. After 2 hours of intense cleaning and in belief that i had killed my pc, i ended up making everything work. Now i have an idle CPU temp. of 35-45C (according to speccy) while before it was what, 50-70? dont even remember, gonna look back on the previous replies and do full temp. tests, but i have a good fealing about this! Will try to use my PC intensively the next past hours to see if anything freezes too.

EDIT!: So i did the temp. test, and got some weird results, again while doing the same benchmark test, i got all up to 100C:nonono:, but all down to 35 too.
OLD TEMP: 50-80
NEW TEMP: 35-100
:ermm:


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

A stuffed hsf can and will easily cause that. Good find.


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Can confirm it isnt fixed, had another freeze :sad:
However lately the freezes occurs more rarely, but that might have something to do with me just not using the pc.

But what do you think about the comparison i posted, why did it go all up to 100C after i cleaned it? but also lower:huh::huh:


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Alright, now after reseating the heatsink a second time, and making sure everything is setup perfectly, i now have very satisfying temperatures, going from 35-60 mostly, rarely 70. (so nevermind my latest reply)

Yet the freezes still occurs, and recently i was in the middle of something, and randomly went to the Speccy app (which was already open) to check current temps. and CPU was at 35C, then it froze 5sec later. Therefore i can conclude that this has nothing to do with temperatures.

One of my online friends said something about a "PSU" and that that might be causing this. I dont even know what that is, could he be right?


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

> One of my online friends said something about a "PSU" and that that might be causing this. I dont even know what that is, could he be right?


 *PSU* is the *P*ower *S*upply *U*nit of the computer. 
Freezes are mainly caused by overheating and/or a failing or under powered* PSU*. Shut down the computer and take off the side and look at the label for the *PSU,* report the *Make, Model # *and *Wattage*. 
Before you replace the *PSU*, try a Clean Boot and see how you get on.


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

*Re: Random freeze, with working cursor*



spunk.funk said:


> *PSU* is the *P*ower *S*upply *U*nit of the computer.
> Freezes are mainly caused by overheating and/or a failing or under powered* PSU*. Shut down the computer and take off the side and look at the label for the *PSU,* report the *Make, Model # *and *Wattage*.
> Before you replace the *PSU*, try a Clean Boot and see how you get on.


Max 500W
Cooler Master B500 V2 / RS-500-ACAB-B1

(Have had this pc, psu included, for 1.5 year)


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

> try a  Clean Boot and see how you get on.


Cooler Master is a great brand, and 500W should be enough for your setup, but some people on here will tell you otherwise. But everything eventually fails. 
Try the Clean Boot


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Well I disagree with a lot of the thinking around here about psus but Cooler Master
is the poorest psu I have ever used except possibly for Chief or Raid Max. Poor quality time to replace with Seasonic, XFX, Enermax or Thermaltake and Antec HCG or True Power.


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Well problem is sometimes I don't have a freeze for 2 days, other times I get 5 freezes within an hour, so will be difficult to see if clean boot works, but will try later.

Is there any way to test your psu?

And may I remind you that this PSU thing was just something a friend thought of, if you guys think it's unlikely to be the cause, never mind it.

What else could be causing this?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

You can buy testers for the psu at most stores that carry computer components and they are not expensive.


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Did some googling, found this program called "WhoCrashed" which analyzes crash files, it found these 2 reports:

On Wed 12-10-2016 21:04:16 your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\101216-4312-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x14A2C0) 
Bugcheck code: 0x7A (0xFFFFFC6C80EA2398, 0xFFFFFFFFC0000185, 0x1412B8BE0, 0xFFFFD901D4473000)
Error: KERNEL_DATA_INPAGE_ERROR
file path: C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This bug check indicates that the requested page of kernel data from the paging file could not be read into memory. 
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time. 



On Wed 12-10-2016 21:04:16 your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\WINDOWS\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0) 
Bugcheck code: 0x7A (0xFFFFFC6C80EA2398, 0xFFFFFFFFC0000185, 0x1412B8BE0, 0xFFFFD901D4473000)
Error: KERNEL_DATA_INPAGE_ERROR
Bug check description: This bug check indicates that the requested page of kernel data from the paging file could not be read into memory. 
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time. 


Dont know if its relevant, but worth a try if you can see some sense in this


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

spunk.funk said:


> Cooler Master is a great brand, and 500W should be enough for your setup, but some people on here will tell you otherwise. But everything eventually fails.
> Try the Clean Boot


Tried the clean boot, but as i said, it might take alot of hours between each freeze, and it is usually while doing multitasking, which isnt really possible during clean boot, as there isnt even internet connection.


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

If you followed the instructions for _Clean Boot,_ you would *Hide *all Microsoft services, so you would still have Internet. If this works for several days, add_ one _Startup Item and reboot and use that for a while. Then add another etc until the computer starts freezing, Then you will know what the problematic software is. 
If you are experiencing *BSOD*'s, click this link, http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...ions-windows-10-8-1-8-7-and-vista-452654.html do these things and post in that section of the forum for better results.


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Oh! Sorry, read through that page too quickly, missed the hide microsoft services part:whistling::facepalm:
Going to bed now, will start the proper clean boot tomorrow, thanks!:grin:


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

Did the clean boot, and experienced a full freeze about an hour later:sad::banghead:

Tried a program called WhySoSlow, it showed that the Hard pagefaults were critical, dont know if thats relevant.
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Try these suggestions: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/clinth/2009/07/16/the-case-of-the-phantom-hard-page-faults/


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## Thomas1001 (Oct 8, 2016)

I read it and tried what he suggested, however i couldnt get either of the results he spoke of. 

Anyways im starting to get kinda mad, so even though this is fourth time this week, and this time ive really installed alot of games and stuff. Im gonna do a reset again. But instead of just doing the ordinary reset im gonna do a full reset which should take alot longer but also erase EVERYTHING with absolutely no exceptions, might be waste of time, but whatever cant even use the PC as of right now. Then i will also install windows 10 on my HDD and try to use that as main drive and see if that works, after all, the SSD is the only thing i have ever changed since i got it. And then i also ordered another 2x4GB ram because i read its not overkill nowadays to have 16GB ram, so why the hell not, its cheap.

This process will probably take ages, so meanwhile, any recommendations on things to do/not to do after the clean reset which might get me into more trouble?


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