# need a new Rig



## grassi

Hello team, ive been playing Enemy Territory for a while now. Been playing on this "beefed up" wallmart special, lol. Hp a735w. It started with integrated chip. But have since upgraded the video card to a nvidia 7600gt, bigger psu, new monitor, upgraded ram to 1.5 Gb. 

Well now im ready for a real gaming cpu, and dunno what to do? Dont think i have the knowledge to build? I have money its not a problem. I only will be playing enemy territory an online multiplayer game. Any good, well known deals out there. Or any other opinions would be helpful. Basically i wanted to beable to upgrade this computer if needed in the future. 

Thanks for any ideas...


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## linderman

hey grassi where about in upstate NY (me too)


what is your budget if you have done all your own previous upgrades ..... then you can handle the task with some guidance ..........and a digital camera to get by the ruff spots


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## grassi

Hello Linderman,

Im from and currently live in Clifton Park, its about 15-20 min. north of Albany. 

Well i gotta be honest with ya, i have been saying the same thing to myself. I did all that on my own, not knowing anything from the start, and ever since i did it, i always wondered how much harder it would be, to build on my own. Im still not that familiar with a lot of terms, maybe 99% lol. I was leaning towards and/or was hoping someone would show me a good rig for the cost, but Now after your reply/push(lol) think im gonna build one. I do have a digital camera if needed. 
About how much i wanna spend. well dunno. After few searches im reading how its not worth to spend a bundle on cpu when its always upgrading technology. So i was hoping to spend under $1,000 with options to upgrade in the near future if needed. Thats more then i wanted to spend, but whatever i gotta do, im gonna do it. I dunno much buddy. 

I appreciate your reply, this is great...


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## linderman

well I live just outside plattsburgh so / help aint that far away 


anyway lets get started with this discussion


motherboard = gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L (about $130.00)

memory = Corsair XMS PC6400 DDR2-800 (get 2 x one gig matched pair) with timings of 4-4-4-12 (around $50.00)

CPU = Intel E8400 would be my choice ..... or get the E8300 for $20.00 less ???? ($200.00 range)

PSU = Corsair TX-750 watt is a beauty (around $125.00)

Video card = 8800 GTS 512mb or ATI 4850 (about $200.00 range)

case = Coolermaster centurion (around $50.00 )

hard drives = pick up a Seagate Sata of your size preference (around $70.00)

cpu cooler = Zalman 9700 (around $60.00)


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## linderman

if you wanted to do some smart shopping over the course of about 3-4 weeks we could shave off about $200.00 off those prices with some mwave.com / refurbished sales if you are willing to watch them ????


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## grassi

Plattsburgh, aaahhhh many fun times there...

ok, lemme look into these...
Oh, i read somewhere that AMD might be better for gaming, but probably not by your post. hahaha. Is there a big difference or one at all? I do know that AMD and INTEL are best...i think, lol.
Okay now how much would something like this go for at a store or if i but the complete set up, about? (wondering the money im saving by doing this)

I'm in a clan for this game and found out one of the guys ordered...
AMD Phenom Quad 9750+ 2,4 Ghz Socket AM2 - 3Gb - PCIex Nvidia Geforce 8500-GT 256Mb DVI Tvout...what would mine be in comparison?

Finally found some specs for the game itself. Of course i dont wanna just meet the requirements but get a lot more for higher Fps, etc. 

* Windows® 98/ME/2000/XP OS (Windows NT 4.0 not recommended for clients)
* 100% Windows® 98/ME/2000/XP compatible system (including all 32bit drivers)
* Intel® Pentium® III 600Mhz processor or AMD equivalent
* 128 MB RAM
* 32 MB 100% fully OpenGL® compliant 3-D video card
* Microsoft® Direct X® 8.1 or higher (not included)
* 271 MB total disk space for game files 
* 500 MB free disk space for swap file
* 100% Microsoft® Windows® compatible keyboard
* 100% Microsoft® Windows® compatible mouse
* 100% Microsoft® Windows® compatible sound card
* For internet play, 100% Windows® 98/ME/2000/XP compatible 56.6k modem or better internet connection. 56.6k modem play is not recommended for games with more than 8 players total; broadband players should be able to handle up to 32 depending on their connection with the server on which they're playing.


also would like to make it look fancy, led lights etc...clear side if possible, to make sure everything is clean from dust etc...


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## linderman

AMD cant hold a candle to the intel rigs right now .......... thats why AMD is posting HUGE multi million dollar losses right now with their chip business


as for comparison:

I'm in a clan for this game and found out one of the guys ordered...
AMD Phenom Quad 9750+ 2,4 Ghz Socket AM2 - 3Gb - PCIex Nvidia Geforce 8500-GT 256Mb DVI Tvout...what would mine be in comparison?

your buddies new rig isnt even in the running with the one I spec'd for you ........


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## linderman

as for pretty and clean case ......... OK I not much into that ...... but there are plenty of "looking" cases available


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## grassi

ok, buddy...This is Awesome, im gonna need some time, but i like this idea...

I appreciate this, really. 


Thanks Again, Josh Grassi...


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## bruiser

Linderman is correct that Intel is ahead of AMD at this time. It looks as if it might stay that way for the forseeable future.


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## grassi

Yeah im gonna be okay with Linderman here, hahahaha...
Just wish i knew a little bit more, instead of taking all his ideas. Just looking for a different case, found this interesting site. Probably has some good ones. Wish i knew how to use their customizing program.


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## linderman

nice cases 


Thermaltake armour jr

Coolermaster stacker (full tower)

antec makes some great ones <<<< 900 & 1200

apevia makes some cool looking ones

Lian Li


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## grassi

ahh, ok, gonna look at those...Thanks.

I was suppose to post a link in my last post to a site with cases, and a customizing program to see what your cpu would look like, but i forgot and now i cant find that site. OmG...lol.

Thanks again, This is cool...


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## linderman

its really easy to spend $$$$ on good & pretty cases anywhere from $150.00 to $300.00


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## linderman

good cases have hoit swappable drive drives (at least 4 or 5 of them)

removable motherboard tray

at least 4 or 5 cases fan locations; including at least an 80mm fan at the top


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## linderman

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Products.aspx?C=1381


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## linderman

if santa werent so cruel / this would be under the tree for ME 

http://www.lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/pro...ex=215&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=61&g=f

all kidding aside; Lian LI is the Mercedes of computer chassis


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## linderman

http://www.lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/pro...ex=132&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=62&g=f


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## grassi

well im totally ready to order, but i just want to make sure this will all fit in the case i want. Which is the other problem...i like your last link for the lian-li, but need to know what size case, to see if they have a transparent side? Might have to call them to ask. Can this set up be overclocked? Not that i know anything about it, hahaha. Not yet anyway...
Should i get this case 1st? To make sure everything will fit?


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## linderman

your parts will fit into ANY MED ATX case Full tower ATX have even more room; but they get costly

dont have to worry about fitting 

yes that baby will overclock like no other so far

Mattlock the MOD has his thumping away at 4.0ghz I run mine 3.6ghz in summer and 3.8ghz in the winter


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## grassi

mwave.com...thats all refurbished? Dont like that idea. Im just gonna have to search around for the best deals, i guess. But i will be back to make sure im purchasing the right items if u dont mind? Thanks again...


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## grassi

gonna go with lian-li mid tower, after i find the best deal. lol. Hope i can find accessories for it easily?


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## grassi

Think im gonna go ahead and buy this one of these links, its the cheapest with good/trusted reviews. The distributor is advertised on Lian-li's main site...am i doing ok, so far? lol. Just makin sure...

like this 1st link, at the bottom i can customize it. Confusing, and wondering if i can customize any of them? Definetly gonna need to customize it, or there gonna send me a plane one. Oh boy-might need help here.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...=23304&zenid=7732637d7d95ff7b118744a7a31cc2c1

http://www.ncixus.com/products/28907/PC-P60/LIAN-LI/


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## linderman

looks like you have all the bases covered to me ........ nice cases........ I have never seen a Lian-li I wasnt impressed with, they are VERY well built ..... worth every penny IMHO


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## grassi

okay in my 1st link. Where you can customize it, at the very bottom of page. If i make it "plane jane" can i add those options later(all options). Or is it something that needs to get done before your order? ex. Cold Cathode 12" Kit (sleeved), fully sleeve all interior wires,heatshrink?


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## linderman

I am almost positive those add-ons have to be done at time of original purchase; unless you are willing to do the mods later


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## grassi

okay, just called them and got a better view...lol. omg. The rest should go easier for me.
Im trying to see the BiG picture or end result before i get it delivered.

1)http://www.nextag.com/Corsair-CMPSU...rices-html?nxtg=8a3a0a240536-3582EA64E686FC28
http://www.nextag.com/Corsair-750-Watt-TX-569904496/prices-html?nxtg=8a3a0a240536-3582EA64E686FC28
whats the difference between the Corsair CMPSU-750 and the CorsairTX-750? The reason is that in that customizing case link from performance pc's they offer the Corsair CMPSU, which is different then the one you said, i think? If not; for 159$ they will install it and sleeve the cables like the rest of them (color of my choice). If your not sure please post a link of the exact one and i will call them to confirm model# or something.

2)Do i need an intake fan for my transparent window? The have a new custom 250 mm intake fan they can install in the side panel window. Its a new feature, its advertised on their site with picture.

3)do i need a floopy drive? under 15$ installed black mitsumi 1.44 mb?


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## linderman

as long as the unit is made by Corsair I wouldnt sweat it ........ Corsair doesnt make any junk!! 


I would opt for the 250mm fan for sure

floppy drive = not needed, but I think they are well worth $15.00 to own one ....... I bought a multi card reader which reads sim cards and has the floppy drive for about $20.00 I think ......... I like that


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## grassi

okay, looking again i think they might be the same, just an extra part of the name, i guess.

okay im going for that fan, its a new size he said and worth the cost.

gonna wait till i find a multi card reader later on. 

Thanks so much, couldnt have done it without ya. And boy lemme tell ya this thing is SwEEt...customized it... I cant wait...

ill be back for my next part, lol.


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## linderman

http://www.dealsonic.com/kofp3fldrmuc.html







I have bought these for a better price too last ones I got were $19.99 at the egg


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## grassi

cool thanks, maybe i can find one in black to match the case.

1 more question, with all these lights should i upgrade cpu cooler? What would be your upgrade choice or 2nd option? It would be cool to have it be blue, green,or red. But i will settle for the Zalman 9700 if you recomend staying with it?


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## linderman

the zalman 9700 will do the job

my personal fav is the thermalright Ultra 120

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/thermalright-ultra120ex_7.html#sect0


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## grassi

hhmmm, ok. After reading many reviews i think ill go with thermalright ultra 120, but what do i need to know about the fan size? So i can find a real good one, and maybe get one that looks nice as well.

I imagine its like a regular house fan? I prefer stainless steel or some sort of metal over plastic.


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## linderman

which fan ????? the one that attaches to the ultra 120 ????? or the fan for the 250mm ???? 

both of which are easy to find in places like newegg ?


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## grassi

yeah the fan for the cooler, i was reading everywhere to get the right fan for it, other wise you wont see the coolers potential. By the way im now deciding on a monitor, does it matter what i pick with this set up? Im actually thinking going back to a CRT, for gaming purposes, think im getting old, cuz i cant see anymore. lol. 

Whats a good choice here? Dunno what to do, but i need one with good clarity. I have a 17 inch LCD viewsonic now. Think i wanna try something different,better,fast, and clear.


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## linderman

viewsonic is a solid company get a 22inch gamer monitor

as for fan thermaltake smart fan 2 120mm


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## grassi

well they should be calling me today on the case. There were some new features that can be added, but they needed to figure out the pricing. Im having 2nd thoughts on the Mid tower,(reading a lot of reviews about a the room inside for upgrading, ex. wont fit most bigger psu's), cuz of front top fan. So incase i want to upgrade psu or anything should i go with pc 80 Full Tower, and be set for life, lol?


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## linderman

well personally I am a full tower guy all my personal rigs are full towers


I cant imagine any reason why someone would deliberately make the inside of the system so cramped ??? unless aprtment or office space was a REAL issue or tight budget 

but there are soooo many full tower advantages and cost ranges anyone thats prepared to spend $150.00 on a mid tower should really be thinking FULL tower IMHO and forget the worrries of future upgrading


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## grassi

omg, just over 2 feet tall, lol. Lemme think about this, thats huge...
Dunno if i will ever need that big. But then again i dont know how much space, high performance cpu parts will take up.


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## linderman

video cards are getting to be about 12 inches long and the high performance CPU coolers like the thermalright ultra 120 extreme are huge ..... they wont fit in some med atx cases 

you will be spoiled working inside such a full tower though !!


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## grassi

hhmmm, omg, i dont have a hair on my head left. lol. 
I think im leaning towards the mid. Only cuz the size difference isnt much to me for the price. I dunno, i have the money but it looks like this mid case is bigger than most mid cases, so like ya said ill probably get spoiled with the mid too.

okay i can get an option to have rocker switch hole/s drilled in drive bay. 
my options are to drill 3 1/2" bay or the 5 1/4" bay. I choose the amount. Anyways, which am i least likely to use, so i can get some lighting controls on it? This case has:
*9* 5.25 drive bay (external)
*0* 3.5 drive bay(external) and 
*3* 3.5 drive bay (internal).


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## linderman

I would select an external 5.25 drive bay


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## grassi

okay buddy thanks. Omg hope im not talking your ear off, lol. 

But i need a little favor from you. im having trouble on getting the corsair psu customized. Can you give me 2 different brand name psu that are actually better? There are many psu that can be customized, just cant find anyone doing a corsair. Due to companies voiding warantees.


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## linderman

the only two power supplies I would say that are "better" would be the Seasonic and PC Power & Cooling


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## grassi

lol, ok, im trying to see exactly what ones can be customized. Heres my plan, thanks to you. Im trying to make all fans match my blue led lian-li fans(all fans blue); all interior case sleeves/heatshrink are gonna be uv green(custom from them);psu sleeves/heatshrink, i wanted red(for power). Thats just custom, the rest ill do on my own, or after the delivery...

So far i came up with these that will work with my design for psu, both can be customized to my liking...man this is hard to find...might be back after researches...

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=270&products_id=20801

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7...r_750W_Modular_Power_Supply.html?tl=g11c26s85


These are links to a specific model, there are other models of the specific name brand at top.


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## linderman

the SEASONIC I use the M12 700 watt myself .....


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## grassi

okay, nice hit, eh. lol.
so far seasonic...
found 2 more that will work. Should i stick with the seasonic, so far?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=224&products_id=21146
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=224&products_id=4588

then i found this one, has built in red, blue, or green led fan...like it a lot but need to see if i can send it out to have it fully sleeved.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3756957&CatId=2534

what do ya think about these, dont think im gonna find to much more, other then sending it away, if the model supports it.


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## grassi

oh, and hows cooler master?


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## linderman

Seasonic is the KING of ALL power supplies IMHO

coolermaster is an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10 / provided we are talking about the REAL POWER PRO ........... ONLY .............. all other coolermaster PSU's are TRASH


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## grassi

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=270&products_id=20801

hows this Seasonic M12 Modular ATX12V 700 Watt Power Supply? You recomended the 750, but these guys didnt have a 750 seasonic. But they have all those options at the bottom of that link to customize this 700 watter. :laugh:


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## linderman

YES 700 watt ! thats the baby


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## grassi

okay, done, hahahahaha...Man i bet you didnt know what you were getting into with 
m3. LOL. But i will tell ya this. I cant thank you more. Ill have to swing up to Plattburgh and buy ya a couple. 

Okay i got a N00b question for ya.(like your not use to it, or anything=)). For my front bays(i know ya said to use 51/4 bay for fan controller/temp) but what else goes in the front? Hardrive, processor or something, and wheres the best place for them? ex. Bottom might be cooler inside case, or for whatever reasons.


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## stressfreesoul

5 1/4 inch bays hold anything, if you have an adapter for it!! The smaller bays underneath hold HDDs and floppy drives. You can get card readers to fit too. Theres allsorts you can buy to fit in the big bays. One page I saw a while back had a modded tassimo coffee maker crammed into two bays space. It has to be the best made accessory I've seen in years.


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## linderman

lots of cool stuff fit in 5.25 drive bay

you can get hot swapping sata drive bays

dvd rom drives fit in them

SD card readers

fan speed controllers


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## linderman

http://www.pctoday.com/editorial/fu...just+fan+speeds+to+lower+your+PC%92s+noise%2E


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## linderman

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5...FC2_Multi_Fan_Controller_-_PWM_Fan_Ready.html


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## linderman

this whole page is 5.25 inch bay "stuff"

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l1/g34/Bay_Devices.html


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## grassi

okay, thats awesome, but im not there yet. lol. And besides im even more illiterate than that. What im trying to say is; doesnt your hard drive and or processor go in the front? Trying to see what bays in front im gonna have open after the normal stuff (ex.proc., hard drive) goes in. Do i make sense, or did have i lost ya?


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## linderman

there are internal bays and external bays

the external drive bays are the one where you can see the face of the device ...... such as dvd-rom drives / card readers / temp guages and fan controllers / hot swap drive bays etc etc

the internal bays .... actually hold you hard drives and other "stuff" which isnt seen from the front of the computer 


you will NEVER use all your bays !!


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## stressfreesoul




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## grassi

hey where did u get that(lmao)... yeah now im getting the picture...

Thanks...Awesome find...


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## stressfreesoul

:wink:


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## grassi

what the heck are those long thin flat plugs(looks like tape)? Omg, im such a n00b. I gotta do somethin with them, they are Ugly. Any ideas? Oh what do they come with? Wonder if u sleeve them or they have different shapes/types.


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## linderman

those are IDE cable ROFL they aint purdy are they ?????


you can switch them to sata if you want ????? what do you have that needs the IDE cable ....... DVD rom drive probaly ??????

can you send picture of these to make sure I am in the right pew


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## linderman

with a ide to sata converter you can change to sata cable .... those are the thin 1/2 wide cables about 18 inches long




for now and testing purposes use "ugly betty" to get they system up and running


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## grassi

I dunno buddy, just got nervous/paranoid, rofl...Im still waiting for my case, and psu...
I was planning on not having any unsleeved cables. Then that picture, reminded me about that ugly cable, when i did the work on this wallmart special. I didnt know what it came with. Now i do, and dont think im there yet... 

Im doing little bit at a time, to insure i get any of the latest models...
I did see the ultra 120 has a new model true black 120 on its site. And i believe only mm's apart? Any opinions on this true black, whats the difference, i cant really tell? I can call them if needed.
http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/cpu/tb120/product_cpu_cooler_tb120.html


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## linderman

no matter what the changes ...... they wont be anything thats a must have improvement 

its hard to "top" the ultimate cooler, its been around for far too long and it hasnt been dethroned yet


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## grassi

okay, little early but i was looking at some lian li custom builds and saw many with the ultra 120 with 2 fans but...some had the fans blowing front to back, some had the fans blowing top to bottom? Like it could be installed to motherboard anyway you want? Which is best?


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## linderman

thats a flavor type thing 

as long as the warm expelled air is not sent towards your video card you will be fine


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## linderman

two fans mounted to that cooler is a user suffering from boredom !! :laugh:


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## stressfreesoul

If you dont like the flat IDE cables, you can get round ones very cheaply.


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## grassi

Omg, im back. I recieved my Lian li pc 60 armorsuit (blue uv sleeving/heatshrink), seasonic 700 watt psu (green uv sleeving/heatshrink;motherboard cable red uv sleeving/heatshrink;blue led fan). And Uv cold cathode light (blue uv sleeving).

Now which 2 items should i order next, if you dont mind me taking slow? lol. 
Gonna have some questions on upgrading some choices for this build also. Ive been studying, hahaha.


"my red uv motherboard cable came with green uv conncter, i wanted red,"


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## linderman

fire away with your questions


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## grassi

!st of all, OMG theres a scratch on my front door of my case, and they are saying it didnt leave like that. Im currently trying to settle this as i can only talk to someone through email, nobodys answering the phones. What can i do? Go to better business bureau?

Anyways the e8400... might as well go with the e8500 now, what do ya think? Much of a difference? Is there different motherboard colored models, that you know of(just 4 looks)?


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## linderman

dont know of any colored motherboards ......... was the shipping box damaged in anyway that may have caused the scratch ? it would seem to me that they would replace your front cover ?

if you used a credit card to pay for the item ..... then contact your bank and begin a "charge back" that will get them back on the phone and wanting to resolve your issue.


as for CPU have a look at the new E8600 now coming out, the only real whopee about that one is E0 stepping which is desirable


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## grassi

well, they havent replied after my last email. I sent a photo. Box was in good shape, no punctures, or anything. I cant even find the front door online for replacement, anywhere,lol. 

Im gonna look into this "charge back", i used a credit card. I cant even contact lian li, thats not even cool, lol. i filled out all required fields and it just says "you need to fill out required fields" hahaha.

Yeah i forgot i saw that it was coming out, but didnt know when or where to buy it? Or if i could wait.lol. Whats E0 though?


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## linderman

EO stepping allows for much better overclocking they are on newegg now for $274.00 not really sure if I personally would pop an extra $75.00 for the upgrade from the E8400 or E8500 to get the E8600 ??????

soon all the newer built wolfdale cpu's will be Eo stepping ........ however there is no way to check if an E8400 or E8500 which you buy today would have it ?????


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## grassi

hahaha, just realized what happend here. I thought the e8..... was the motherboard. 

this is looking nice, think i want around the same numbers/or close. Am i reading 5.0?
http://www.ocxtreme.org/forumenus/showthread.php?t=3426

maybe even memory upgrade as newegg has lots of combo deals with the e8600, somethin that will get me close to 4.5-5.0? Heres a link for combo deals?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ubCategory=343&SortField=0&PageSize=10&page=1

Is there a better upgrade for my gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L, i would like to look at other upgraded options? I planned on stopping/ordering when i see a nice colored design model. I dont have to but would like a g00d color scheme for my case interior. I wanna see a higher stable oc.


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## linderman

I dont know of any "pretty" motherboards ....... sorry

as for overclocking you wont find a series of board any easier to overclock than the one you have in the DS3L


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## grassi

gotta regroup buddy, Performance pcs is not cooperating, They seem to wanna start selling bad products without any chance of returning, lol.

1st my psu was wrong, i filled out there option box for customizing, i asked for green sleeving and red motherboard sleeving now the option for connects is "all the same color, your choice" or plane, i asked for all green connects except for the red motherboard cable connect; i wanted red connect to match. Well i called 3 times to make sure they said "no problem" every time. lol. Well they didnt contact me on my customizing comments, and sent me the psu with all green connects. Wasnt a big deal but whats with that? lol. Then i move on to my interior case, all cables are blue sleeved, except 1 little pc 97 cable not done. I move on to examine the whole case, and find a scratch on the bottom. I called them and asked about these issues. 
1st the workable issues, they said, "its not like your paying for a 50 dollar sleeving job, were doing it for 29.99," lol. I obviously got that deal from ordering a case and the psu from them(over 600$) , they charge much more if you were to send them your own item to have done, lol. Unbelievable. 

Now the scratch, they finally talked to the "guy" who sleeved and packed it, and it wasnt them, says this "guy" the same guy who ignored my comment by not calling me, or contacting me. 
Anyways...Its not a common scratch (side to side) theres many tiny, tiny scratches that go across the bottom of the door. But its stretched out about 3 inches wide. Like it was rubbing up and down constantly. They say they will try pinning it on ups, but lol, box wasnt damaged. And styrofoam covers the scratch completely.

Cant even find a replacement door, or contact lian li, lol. I just cant see myself putting all that money in that case, like that. If i did it, project would have been still on, as i would have respected my 1st build 
"war wound" lol. 

gonna see what this turns out as, lol. 
way to go Performance-pc's, 
keep selling bad products!!!


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## linderman

I am sorry to hear you have had such a negative experience ........ 

I have always enjoyed builds I assembled with Lian-li cases / pure quality construction

I have never had the oppurtunity to customize one like that so I never had that experience. the cost of their cases alone was enough so sloooooow me right down without any chance of mods

you may want to consider returning the case to them if you are not satisifed ?

remember...... you only have 30 days I think for a charge back 

keep us posted


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## grassi

i called about a charge back. I actually had to call my credit card company, to have it shipped to my girlfriends, where im at. So i had to give performance pcs permission to charge my card. 

I could just return it but its not gonna do any good, there saying theres nothing they can do. Could get worse.

gonna try the owner tomorrow. See what he says...


----------



## linderman

make sure you tell the owner you are contemplating a charge back on the product

all credit cards have consumer protection ......thats the only thing good about those damn things!


----------



## grassi

Hey buddy, you have been more than helpfull. Just wanted to say thanks again for everything. I tried leaving a message with the owner, but some guy named James insisted on helping me. He says he has my door, packaged in bubblewrap this time, and hes just waiting on the ok from ups. So ill see how this goes. I didnt say anything about a chargeback to him, as i dont want to make anyone mad, at this moment.

But did tell him, i still had many things to order, and would like to complete my build through them. I also told him i help moderate with full admin access to a few different gaming websites, with people building constantly. I could give them lots of business, as us gamers are always looking to build/modify.

If all goes well with this costly project, ide even throw them guys a tip at the end. But not before you guys, ray:

Thanks Linderman, i will be back soon...


----------



## Call-Collin

Interesting thread.


----------



## grassi

lol...

Ok, i have talked to the Owner, and his associate. They were all business. My door is mailed, and should have it in a few days. They gave me a discount on sleeving, and im just gonna change the psu connector to uv green myself, with there tools. Gonna have to start somewhere, lol, gotta a lot of sleeving/modifying to do.

Anyways, i guess im going for the motherboard. But i wanted to make a little adjustment. I wanted to make sure im getting the most up to date or latest models. Im looking at this case, its Awesome, and i want to make sure i can do a little more then gaming. Anyways this GA-EP35-DS3L has many different series, like 8 (or something)i think i read. I dont mind a little challenge, my buddy will help, this is what he does. So which one should i get, with the e8600. Im really hoping i can oc to at least 4.5 stable. If i need to upgrade let me know, i dont mind spending the xtra cash...

i read, that reports indicate the DES, (Dynamic Energy Saver), can not be disabled thus limiting the CPU voltage to the default voltage of the installed CPU. Overclock limited to stock voltage.
"new EP series of DS3x boards have problems withe the BIOS (ie. voltage settings not sticking,etc)"


----------



## linderman

I am using an "EP" series board right now (GA-EP45-DS4P) ....... I find the bios to be mildly quirky .... although the Intel P45 chipset was just released so I guess I kind of have to expect that ......... I am sure future bios releases will deal with that 

all in all its a decent board and I have no problem reccomending one ........ The board I had previously was the GA-P35-DS4 VERY stable , easy as hell to set-up and overclocked very well .....


----------



## grassi

ok, this is my issue, all these different series. 

But i think im gonna try and make this easier for me, lol. Which GA board will get me the highest stable clock with the e8600? 

Found this link, the mb here is DFI LP LT P35; what is this in comparison to the 
EP35-DS3L? Its clocked at 5.0, air cooled, direct boot? 
http://www.ocxtreme.org/forumenus/showthread.php?t=3426

Just trying to see what others are clocking with this similar set up. I came across a sig. and its close to mine, only i will have upgraded versions of most of his parts(especially his video card, lol). So am i close when i say i should get at least 4.5, with E8600? If he is doing this.
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L 
CPU: E8400 Q746A503 @4000/1.325v
CPU Heatsink : Thermalright Ultra 120A/sunon KD1212PMB3-86
RAM: 2X corsair Dominator PC8500
GFX: 25$ @Ebay 6600 but actually a no-name Nvidia 6800
Temperature: 53-55C Orthos Stress CPU small FFTs

whats Rev and crossfire? I tried searching, but im sure you can explain easier. lol.


----------



## linderman

I cant see any way that a board will be able to out duel the DS3L !! the DS3L may have less USB ports ...... wont have a raid controller ..... some minor crap like that ..... but for *YOUR intended spec *it will race with anything out there

as for 5.0 ghz on the E8600 cpu / that cpu will not last long !

4.5ghz is really pushing things

you can "safely" hit 4.0ghz without stressing the cpu or raising cpu voltages

see that 1.32 volt in that guys sig right after his E8600 numbers ....... the 1.32 volt is increased from the stock 1.22 volts ........ while thats not dangerously high by any means ....... many fellas go to 1.35 volts ........ its totally unecessary IMHO ......... my goal with computers is to find a set-up that allows my CPU to run without EVER getting to 100% cpu usuage; not even for a split second ! beyond that ....... *more is useless*

you could have 15ghz and *the biggest "E-tool" roaming the plant*; what good does it when your toughest program to run cant make use of more than 3.2ghz for a split second !

REV = revision number Crossfire is combining two ATI cards together ........ its like SLI for Nvidia cards 

But ONE single high performance card will out duel ANY crossfire OR sli set-ups.... the majoirty of the time ........ the software is just plain not ready yet to make use of that much hardware

the economy is such that all corporations have tightened their belts to the MAX, therefore all corporate mission statements are "only the essentials" to survive

game developers are no different ....... they only care about making a more intense game with new features ....... they dont care nor are they spending much $$$$$$$ in programming resources trying to achieve 'gas mileage" while you are gaming ....... especially not in a time when everyone is buying such outstanding performance hardware and video cards !


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## grassi

okay, this is awesome, really shed some light on things ova here, lol. E8600, EP35-DS3l, im gonna order, now. But cant i still upgrade to some "dream" mem. or something else, to improve performance, like top of the line? Every little bit counts. 

I wanna try and beat 4.0 but like you said without increasing the volts. Im not looking to be one of them guys who replace parts constantly but would like to have the potential for an incredible clock. While keeping things around 4.0 but also very cool and calm, lol. 

Gonna wait till i get the mb till i order the "true black 120" so ican take measurments to be sure it will fit. But im gathering info on options for "lapping", should i have it done? I know it voids warrantee, but does give me a tiny decrease in temps. Every little bit counts. (these are the little bits, i like.).

Also about the Seagate Sata hard drive. I was doing research on these and i found the western digital raptor 10,000 rpm, i like this idea for loading. Im always the last guy loading a map, which means i miss all the good weapons choices before there all used up. lol. Not to mention, im not doing much burning yet but i wanna have incredible speeds, cuz i will be doing that stuff soon. If you think i should get 1 for gaming and the seagate for data i will. But i really want fast downloading etc. what do you think here?


----------



## linderman

memory = Corsair Dominator PC2-8500 (2 x 2 gig sticks) 


yes........ you can have the lapping done for about $19.00 at several of the sites that sell the Ultra 120 extreme



The new Western Digital Velocity Raptor is suppose to be the fastest Sata hard drive ......


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## grassi

"Your the best; dude" thanks...
Ill do some more research on the Raptor, but speed i like, =). 

After ordering the E8600, and after alot of researching, i finally realized what everyone was talking about, when they say include your batch numbers for the E8600. I see there are BIG differences in batches for this E8...
Well this has to figure, lol. Some have problems, like running hot, more voltage needed, for a certain clock, anyways i gotta have the best batch out there, especially after seeing some threads. Do you know anywhere i can see the best batches for the e8600, like a well known batch review site or something? Heres 2 different batches Q82...looks like a big difference to me, especially when trying to get that bang for a buck. Tried searching but i think im gonna have to find peoples signatures, like below...

Q822A435 e8600 4.5Ghz 1.29 V
Q820A306 4.5Ghz 1.38 V


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## grassi

whats the difference here besides 100 bucks? :smile:

http://www.amazon.com/150GB-Raptor-Sata-3-5IN-150MB/dp/tech-data/B000Q8490S/ref=de_a_smtd

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136012


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## linderman

read plenty of these reviews ......... this is the drive I was telling you about ....... not worth the money in my book ..... but ????????

the other drives you linked are the old spec ....... they dont impress me at all ....... hell the seagate perpendicular 3.0gbs 7200 rpm drives keep pace with them on actual read and write bench marks ????


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## grimx133

I've got the WD1500ADFD and I took it out, it's going into my spare machine. Put back in what I consider a better drive. Much cheaper and bigger.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288 

Any speed difference with the 10k rpm raptor was not noticable to me. Think I imaged it a little faster is about all. And they are loud, I sure got tired of listening to hard drive access, don't even hear the seagate. 
Others will tell you different, I'm sure, but I wouldn't buy one again.


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## linderman

ahhhhhhh finally a truthful owner / thanks Grimx.......ray:

its hard to admit you wasted your money ! I own several raptors myself ........ I saw little speed improvement over standard speed sata drives; the seagate perp drives closed that gap anyway.......

the SCSI drives I use do boot noticibly faster vs sata drives ..... but again; the cost factor makes that speed increase tough to swallow ....... its only for those fellas that are willing to spend, spend, spend while chasing any amount of speed improvement ...... if you want to go that route I can certainly assist you; you have been advised......... it aint cheap


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## grassi

ok, again im just trying to look this stuff up, and learn more as to what im doing. Then i come across these other options, which looked like a "GO" 4 me. Trying to take in as much knowledge as i can, its so "never ending" lol. I really am looking for speed here, quietness also, this is key for what i do. So which one is the best/fastest seagate?
seagate perpendicular 3.0gbs 7200 rpm? Money is no option, but might go with a lower Gig, if needed to adjust the price.

I do realize im going over my original price, but thats ok. There is more room here, for even a little bit of improvement, like the E8600, and the memory, which i thank you for the upgrade recomendation.


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## linderman

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148134


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## grassi

cool, i was just comin back cuz i found that and the 7200.11, as i tried searching for the best seagate. The only good thing i got about the .11 is that they are more quiet. As far as performance, it was going both ways. But did see some test where the .10 was faster. Im gonna go with the one you posted.


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## linderman

at this point we are splititng hairs ....... but atleast we are no longer wasting money on very noisey drives that dont offer much in return (raptor)


enjoy that rig ............ I would kill to own that lian-li


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## grassi

hey buddy, i hurt my back. Just now starting to move around again. Anyways, i have some questions on the seagate baracuda. It didnt come with much, actually just the hard drive, and it has a circuit board showing on the bottom, no cover. 
It doesnt look anything like what i have now, obviously(walmart special). 
Is there covers that come with it, or something? Also, what cables/connectors do i need? It doesnt come with any and i wanted to buy custom cables(UV or Led).


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## linderman

you dont need any cover for the bottom of the drive ...... just mount the drive horizontally is the best IMHO although some machine manufs used to mount them on their side ..... but I never got the drive life out of drives mounted like that 

as for cables you should only need a sata drive cable to connect the drive to the motherboard ...... the power plug for the drive comes from the PSU

good news is ..... UV sata cables are very common 


hope your back gets better soon ....... still waiting to hear what you think of that rig ??


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## grassi

okay, maybe i can get a cooler for it, since im gonna have lotsa room. 
I see uv sata 1 data cables or uv sata 2 data cables. Whats the difference and what one do i need? I dont have the monitor, but can use the one i have for now. I just dont want to get the viewsonic again, i looked at a samsung 226bw but was looking for an s-panel. 
@the back...dont have insurance anymore, so i thought i was gonna duke this one out, but i think its a sciatic nerve, gotta get an MRI. Other then that, i cant even put my shoes on, lol. 


OH, the motherboard comes with... 
1 ide cable and 1 floppy disk drive cable
2 Sata 3 Gb's cables...Think this is what i need, but it says 3 Gb cable? And its not UV so ill have to get another one. But omg sata 1, sata 2, and 
3 gb cable, lol. How confusing.


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## linderman

all that is PURE horse poop........ no sata drive manufactured yet can exceed 150mb/sec so it dont matter

get the most sata 2 or sata 3 UV cable you can find ........ the better the cable the less interference




any sata II cable that is UV colored will be your needs perfectly !

http://www.ocmodshop.com/ocmodshop.aspx?a=355


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## grassi

okay, lol. Normally i wouldnt care, but since im goin for looks too, i gotta question. where im mounting the hard drive, cuz this determines the length of the cable and if i could use a straight to right angle sata cable or just plane straight. Heres a picture of the inside of the case(see attatchment). I marked numbers 1-3 in neon green inside of the HDD cage, which is where i think my hard drive is going(am i correct)? Now if this is the correct place for it, should i go with 1,2, or 3? My guess is: lower the better(#3), unless Maybe 1 or 2 and give it room to breathe?


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## linderman

hello



I would use slots 1 & 3


I always try to avoid stacking drives when possible


best to have a couple inches of air space between them to keep the drives as cool as possible .....

the right angle sata drive cables are very nice and you can get cables longer than 18 inches for sata too ...... 24 inch ones are also common


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## grassi

dont confuse me, lol. I hope you mean 1 *or* 3 cuz i only have 1 hard drive. Unless theres something else that goes in there also?

From my calculation im only gonna need about an 8" sata cable. I think my sata connector on motherboard is on the lower right corner when mb is installed. This would put the sata connect very close to the hard drive, so i was figuring on a way shorter cable? 

Also im thinking these right angles are only for "making the cable run in a certain direction", which again both being located at the bottom of the case and so close, dont think the right angle will be necessary. Hope im on the right track here, im gonna start tonight,(lortabs kickin in, lol.) just waiting for a better camera, so i can take pictures throughout this proccess.


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## grassi

well, im stuck...

1st of all i installed the cpu...
A little nervous on this one. Hope all went well,(heard weird noise when locking/pushing down lever, and i triple checked the placement of the cpu).
Next i did the stock cpu fan, which blew, lol. It didnt want to go, as i tried pushing down on the pin/locks till i heard it click, but didnt hear a click. Looked like i was stressing the MB by pushing down.
hope i wasnt to rough, i thought i was being gentle but these installations are not exactly easy.
Now im stuck on the memory...
I have 4 slots, split into 2 sections. Should i install both memory chips in 1 section or should i split them up? If i split them up, should it be color coordinated(both in red slots or both in yellow slots)?


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## grimx133

The cpu snugs in quite nicely in the socket, but, the lever can take a small amout of force (not a whole lot) to clamp down. If you put the HSF on while the motherboard is out of the case, you can then look at the bottom and you'll see if the leg is engaged. A little black dot in a ring of white plastic. I don't always hear the click, main thing is that it's rock solid, any play at all won't do. Ram goes into the colour coordintated slots for dual channel, usually the first and third slots from the cpu. It's usually best to install the operating system with just one stick in the slot closest to the cpu, though I did one today with two in, as usual I wasn't thinking.


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## grassi

okay i installed it in 1 and 3 which landed on both yellow slots...
The cpu just dropped in. The proccessor just had pads/flat surface(so it looked).
I put pressure down, it felt a little harder then it seems it should go, but im gonna have to find out the hard way i guess. Also with that fan, OMG, that i put a lot of pressure cuz nothing was clicking(like u said) but then i realized it was way too much. Probably can damage the cpu just as easy, by pushing down on the HSF too hard, huh? Im getting nervous now, lol.


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## linderman

I hate those stock coolers !!! they really hurt for lack of real design

if you ever tried a thermaltake ultra 120 you would be spoiled !! no pushing no yanking

but make sure before you insert the motherboard into the case ......check to be sure the heatsink is VERY solid ....... no wobbling at all

review this

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f255/how-to-bench-test-your-system-171424.html


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## grassi

okay...
I do have that 120, i was just gonna make sure everything ran ok with that stock cooler.

I ended up not being able to sleep, cuz of that installation, lol. So i woke up and i opened up the cpu and carefully inspected those pins and also checked the contacts in the cpu socket where i inspected that all pins seemed to have made a little dot where the pins actually "touch". And yeah i think 1 leg from that HSF is toast, lol. But all seem pretty snug.

Okay i read when installing my memory that its only designed for 64bit system, and that installing 4gb's onto a system with 32bit is not advised or supported by warrantee, is this correct?

which brings me to, what operating system? SP3 windows xp pro with 64bits?


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## linderman

??????????/ I run 4 gigs of memory with win xp pro ..... 32 bit ?????????


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## grassi

ok...I was just reading it off of the actual manufacturer box. So i wasnt sure...
Have you ever tried 64 bits? I think i would like to try it, if you agree?


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## linderman

I have found the performance increase with 64bit too small when compared to minimal driver support for hardware and all the glitches with software 

after I shook all the whole thing ....... I returned to 32bit win xp.......... I wanted soooo much to get all the hype you hear about 64bit OS's ....... but it didnt pan out


----------



## grassi

ok, can i still add more ram later on a 32 bit system? (with my 4gb i have now.) Or am i really not gonna be needing it?


----------



## linderman

windows 32 bit will only "see" 3.5 gigs of ram even though you have 4 gigs installed

so / no you cant add more than 4 gigs to 32bit windows

but then again ....... I have never seen any system actually use more than 2.5 gigs while in a 32bit OS ....... so why bother

if you get another hard drive ....... you could try both 32 bit and 64 bit then you could be the judge for yourself ???????


----------



## grassi

okay, i found 2 so far, and i just dont get it.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...?EdpNo=2571830&csid=ITD&body=MAIN#detailspecs

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...?EdpNo=1104919&csid=ITD&body=MAIN#detailspecs

big difference in price? Im seeing many different choices between price, clean install versions, more security versions, etc.

can you show me a link of what would be best, i have no clue...?


----------



## linderman

I use the $139.00 version .......... with all my new builds


----------



## grassi

Hello, im gonna need a cd drive. I dont want anything weak, infact i wanted one of the best/fastest. But i am trying to put something together, with the lian li cd/dvd bezel.
http://www.crazypc.com/products/81296BK.html

I found some from bestbuy, which is somewhat close by. The ones i found are around 100 bucks. 
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...8006353773*1186003898983*1184768699303&catId=

Then i found some from Performance pcs, where i bought most of my stuff, but here the cd/dvd drives seem cheaper? But also seem to have bigger/faster numbers, for read and write times.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...th=120&zenid=88e11f1bcf0bf9fbc106b21d587fa29c

Please tell me what im missing here as far as the difference goes between the Bestbuy link and the performance pcs link? Why is bestbuys double in price?


----------



## linderman

BestBuy has a HUGE overhead and staff and mall floor space is a killer $$$$


its very common to see BB with huge prices for the same EXACT thing you can buy from a wholesaler like performance PC's 

I often find the quality of components sold at best buy is Mid tier 


buy the DVD writer from any where but best buy


example =

a few days ago I needed a cable which converts from the old printer style 25 pin connector to USB (new motherboards dont have the old 25 pin printer plug)

best buy had one for $45.00 ......... I bought one from the EGG for $7.00


that doesnt make BB evil by any means ............. for customers which are impatient or in a hurry or want to see and feel the product before you buy >>>>>> you pay for such caveats


another example 

Antec Trio 650 watt sold at the EGG for $105.00 at the local BB it was $189.00


you can of course buy better performance parts from wholesalers ...... for cheaper too

but those wholesalers dont have the staff that BB has on the floor and the wholesaler doesnt pay premium mall floor rentals either !


----------



## grimx133

Best Buy is not a good price. I searched the part number on the first one in your link, the other two drives were externals, they plug into a usb port. Anyway, newegg has the first LG one for 25 bucks. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136147&Tpk=GH22LP20 
I always figure that there's not a whole lot of difference between them and buy whatever is on sale. Lately I've bought Samsung drives, they work fine. Have an LG external in a closet somewhere that I use for portability now and again, and it's served me well too. Lot of people recommend Lite-On burners too. Plextor are supposed to be real good, just pricier. 
Interesting link from crazypc, nice looking cover, wonder how they work and look in action.


----------



## grassi

okay, thats cool. Thanks for the heads up. Its easy to get lost in this stuff, lol. Im on the right track here.

Anyways am i right that i need one with "ide" connect, if im reading the motherboard directions correctly, i believe its a ide connector on the MB?


----------



## grimx133

Nope, it's up to you if you use ide or sata, won't be long till it'll be hard to find a board with any ide channels. Sata cables are so much nicer, easier for cable management and don't block the airflow like ide ribbon cables. Even the rounded ide cables are bigger than sata and I find them a tad unwieldy. Only time I figure to ever use ide is when I get a bunch of old computers from a local business guy, get whatever I can working, then spare parts and case modding. Maybe a file server. Maybe some data retrieval testing. Have to keep pestering him though. 
Anway, ide is the way of the past, anything you get new, you would be much better off getting sata.


----------



## grassi

okay, omg, i cant wait till i understand what im doing, lmao...

okay, might end up coming back when i hook this up cause im not seeing anything about connecting to a sata connector on Motherboard.

you know anything about this samsung T220? Wanted the samsung 226bw but cant find that s-panel.


----------



## grimx133

I'm looking at a 2253BW right now, a fine monitor itself. Read some reviews where I shop online and they say the T220 is better. For the 226bw they were calling it a lottery in regards to which panel you get. Lot of people seemed to end up with the c-panel and weren't too pleased. Of course, my laptop's 17" wuxga with 1920x1200 resolution blows my 2253bw away, but, the higher the resolution, the higher the cost. 

Sata connect real easy to the motherboard, look for a group of oblong shaped connectors with an "L" shaped peice in the middle. Usually found at the back of the board towards the drive bays, should be 3 rows of 2 as the average is probably 6 sata ports. Cable just plugs in to one of those and the hard/optical drive. I usually plug my OS drive into sata1 and my optical into sata6, but it doesn't really matter, they'll be recognized in any case. The only time you may need to plug a hard drive into a specific case is for raid, but your motherboard manual will tell you about that.


----------



## grassi

lol, thats funny, ive been on this all day, i was actually just gonna start searching 2253bw cause i learned about input lag. Now im only searching for ones with little or no input lag. But the neverending search stops here, input lag is definetly important to me, thats all i care about besides your other obvious needs. Especially when im playing ET.

Just was currently viewing this page, comin from a link in a forum. lol. Nice picture quality, OMG...
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=952788


----------



## grimx133

That's quite the thread at 214 pages. Too bad that crt's are so bulky, not much under a hundred pounds there, but sure does have a great picture!


----------



## grassi

okay i have some major confusion on case cable installation. I have a bundle of about 5 cables coming from my case...Instructions, hahahahaha...
where does this tiny usb connector go comin from my case go, i found "USB 1;USB 2;USB 3" which are yellow plated on my MB but which one does this particular 1 go in?


----------



## grimx133

Doesn't matter which one you put it in. There should be one corner without a pin, makes it nice and easy to orient the plug. Each header is good for 2 usb ports.


----------



## grassi

its actually this one, F_USB1/F_USB2/F_USB3. see attatchment... Each header is only good for 1 i think(or am i confused as to what a header is,lol)? I do see the pin missing though.


----------



## grimx133

You should have a wire running from the front panel of your case with two rows of holes in it. A row of 4 and a row of 5. It'll be solid plastic across from the 5th pin to make 9 altogether, that's how to align it, no hole to no pin and you have front usb. Going to go pull the side cover from another machine, but it should be a piece of cake, I just want to double check. Will post back if it's anything different.

Edit: Yep, just like that. Only way it would be different would be if your plug from the front panel was only a single row for only one usb port, but I don't think I've seen a case with only one usb port, two or none. 
Very nice board, could of used more sata ports, even though I only have the one HDD and one burner, could see a need for more.


----------



## grassi

ah ok, i do have a 2nd usb coming from case, gonna post a pic. of the case cables... so i just plug both usb cables(labled in pic. below)in the place im showing in my 1st pic? Doesnt mattter which one goes in 1, 2, or 3?


----------



## grimx133

Doesn't matter which one you use, I just attached to the closest, though the wires were plenty long. 
Looking at the pictures, it's hard to tell even holding down ctrl and using the scroll wheel to enlarge. Looks like each one has the double row, do you have 4 front usb ports? That'd be nice, the more usb the better I always figure, 6 ports on my laptop and I still needed to use a hub when I ran out of ports.


----------



## grassi

what looks like it has a double row? I dont know if i have 4 front usb ports, whats that?
i probably could use a link instead to show bigger pictures, lol.

For internal IO connections: i have...
"3 x USB 2.0/1.1 headers (supports 6 ports)" is that the same as "front" usb?


----------



## grimx133

The 3 internal usb are those yellow 9 pin headers(headers are things on the motherboard with pins that cables connect to) in the earlier picture. Use two of the yellow things on the motherboard putting one of the cords from the front of the case that are marked usb on each. That'll leave one empty, doesn't matter which one. The connectors on the cables only go on one way because of the spot where there's no pin, if it's backwards the place on the cable end where there's no hole will hit a pin and it won't slide on. Goes on real easy with the proper orientation. Looked at the case pictures at Newegg, from left to right on your front panel you have an e-sata port, a firewire port, 2 usb ports, 2 usb ports, then mic, and lastly headphone jack. And a very very nice case it is.


----------



## grassi

ah, thats what i call; "explaining to a n00b", lol. Thanks for that info. Maybe im missing something a long with the Lian li site, but they dont show you how to install all case connectors. From my directions it looks like the 1394 connector plugs into that e-sata connector on MB? Am i correct?


----------



## grimx133

I don't think there's a 1394 firewire on the board. I've looked in the manual and on the board itself with no luck. The e-sata cable from the case goes into one of the 4 yellow oblongs just above the green IDE connection. I put my main hard drive in the furthest from the green thing and my dvd drive on the closest connection, put the e-sata from the front of the case on one of the middle ones. 
Just looked again, my other case has a front firewire port, but it's just collecting dust. If you have a need for 1394 firewire you can put in a pci card such as this one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815150103


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## grassi

First of all just wanted to say i just now realized where the front usb ports are, lmao, ...

Okay i posted a screeny of the lian li instructions. on cables, lol. See what i mean... The other 2 pages are for hardware.

Well i guess i will leave the 1394 alone for now. Thanks, gonna see if i can a compatible cd/dvd drive with that lian li bezel.


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## grimx133

Just looked at the lian-li manual, doesn't have a whole lot in it. The gigabyte one for the board is good though, shouldn't have a problem with the front panel header, reset, power switch etc. Too bad the lian-li manual doesn't have a diagram of those connectors to see how they are marked.


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## grassi

well i decided to get the 22"LG W2252TQTF lcd. Its at best buy on sale for 240$. I did lots of research and it seems there is no input lag when compared to the CRT. Perfect for my FPS game. Gonna go pick it up today.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8739092&st=LG&type=product&id=1201913867402

Gotta be honest here, had to take a break, on this, im not understanding these optical, cd/dvd rom, cd burner,dvd burner etc. I can already tell theres too much stuff for me to learn here. I just dont understand all the terminology. Ive been searching for a weeks now, lol. I know i need a cd/dvd rom. Do all dvd burners do everything a cd burner will do? 
whats the differance between a cd/dvd rom and a dvd burner? 
Also am i gonna need an ethernet card or something?


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## linderman

not all things need maximum research :wink:


most any dvd burner for $25.oo or more will make you very happy

your motherboard has built in network (lan) ???


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106265


i would get a combo drive so you can read and write both CD's & dvd's
and look for sata interface if possible ?


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## linderman

this would be my #1 choice

http://www.google.com/products/cata...talog_result&resnum=1&ct=result#ps-tech-specs


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## linderman

http://plextor.com/english/products/px-810sa.html


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## grassi

ooh that was close. Only 1 left. 
Well i dont know here exactly what the differences are but i think im liking that plextor. Do you know if its the standard demensions of a normal cd/dvd combo drive?


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## linderman

YES the plextor is standard size ........ Plextor is a very high quality drive manuf


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## grassi

sold, hahahah.
Hey buddy, you think this card is better 
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3094314&Sku=P450-8800

then the GTS? Its on sale 100 bucks off, lol. I found a chart i believe from toms hardware, it showed the ultra really performing better with resolution 1680x1050 for enemy territory.


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## linderman

that looks like one hellva video card ........ in reality I havent been even marginally disappointed while gaming with any card of 8800 GTS 320 meg or better ........ the video card you linked looks like a very good option


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## grassi

yeah well i just noticed its only 612 core clock where as your GTS has like 670 or so. Dont know what that means, lol, but im sure i want a card with high core clock? I was hoping they were gonna come down with that GTS OC 670MHz but i think thats an awesome card. 
I didnt realize i could only have 1 vid card, till not long ago, lol. So now im really wanting the best card for this system. No messing around, lol. Your GTS does hold good benches though.


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## linderman

I really think people are splitting hairs once you get to a certain level of performance ...... in my book; its smarter to buy another two hundred dollar video card two years from now ....... enjoy any $200.00 card now 

dont overlook the ati 4870


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## grassi

well, lol, i dunno what to say. I couldnt find any plextors for sale from a legit place so i tried calling them with the link you gave. I asked them if they could tell me if they had a specific plextor in stock. He comes back saying they have no drives for sale. 

Think they might have "kicked the bucket", back to square 1...


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## linderman

Sony drives are decent ....... I sell alot of them


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## grassi

omg, looks like i was just not looking under the right category, think i struck gold, hahaha...found this link on performance pcs, and they owe me 15 bucks, lol... So you still like that plextor out of these options? (i was reading about plextor and am seeing that they are not as good anymore, stuff about rebadged, etc., Not to many good reviews on the newer products: from what im gathering...) but if you recommend it, i will go ahead and buy it.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ath=67&zenid=7732637d7d95ff7b118744a7a31cc2c1


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## linderman

I would have to say pass on the plextor ....... I am sorry to hear they got that watered down on performance and the rebadging thing really sours me ........ why should we pay top prices of $80.00 for a questionable manuf product .......

I would go with a Sony DW-G120A I have a couple of those in our work stations...... the burn nice and quiet ...... the lite-on models are very good burners and priced attractively but they sound liek a fighter jet on take-off when they access and burn a CD ........ if you dont do alot of burning then you might not care ? but I am not a big fan of usless or avoidable noise ?


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## grassi

okay, theres something im not sure of...I noticed the sony is IDE with a ATAPI connector? whats that compared to sata? Think i only have 1 of those connects on Motherboard?


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## linderman

yes it is an IDE you have one IDE plug that can support two IDE devices ....... you can also get an IDE to sata adapter or you can just plain get a sony sata drive


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## grassi

well i begun learning about lightscribe, and i didnt like that big IDE cable idea, i also needed a standard size with a rectangular tray eject button that sticks out(unlike some rounded and placed so its almost flush with the face plate). This seems to be alright, so i bought it, any comments?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...A-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-N82E16827136153

Also for the video card i went with GTS OC, but my Ram is DDR2 and the video card is DDR3 is that ok? what am i doing here, should it be a better match,lol?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143119


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## linderman

the lightscribe drive is ok ...... they work well....... noiser than I like but ohhh well the world is not a perfect place :wink:


the video card you choose is a good performer ....... I think you will be very pleased with it

and the video card using ddr3 and your ram being ddr2 have no bearing on each other .......... you are fine


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## grassi

there is a main 24pin power plug, an ATX 4pin plug, and EPS 8pin plugs that come out from the power supply, the rest install as needed.
http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/Seasonic_M12_700w/index.shtml

where do i put that "EPS 8pin" into the MB?


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## grimx133

No need for an 8 pin, just the 24pin main power and the square ATX 4 pin for the cpu power. The 8 pin is probably included for motherboards that have the 8 pin socket instead of the 4. Lot of power supplies have a 4+4 for your cpu power, sort of like the way the 24 pin can be a 20+4.


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## linderman

quad cores take the 8 pin connector ......... they are found right where the four pin cpu power plug is on your motherboard ...... if you look close you will see a black cap that blocks off four holes ...... remove that black cap and voila ........ 8 pin connection ........ only needed if you are running a quad


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## grimx133

EP35-DS3L only has the 4 pin though, don't have to worry about that.


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## grassi

ok, so the 8pin, and the 1394 comin from the case are extra...I have a 1 more cable. The plug is labeled "AC'97" with a little jumper connected to it going to another plug called "Hd audio". I assume i only use 1 of these or do i use both? 

Heres a pic. of the Lian Li cd/dvd Bezel...


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## grimx133

That's your front panel audio for the headphone (or line out) and mic jacks on the front panel of the case. Use the HD Audio connector and it plugs into the header marked F_AUDIO on the motherboard. This header is right behind the audio ports on the rear panel of the motherboard and is light green in colour. There is a missing pin on the header and a blank spot on the connector, so it only plugs in the one way. The AC'97 isn't used on this motherboard.


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## grassi

cool, saw that f audio, and know right where that bugger is, lol. Thanks...
The bezel is an awesome fit. Lines up perfectly with my dvd drive,the eject button is like it was meant to be. Well got the final pieces to my puzzle. The OS and the Video card, omg that card is huge. BIG step from my walmart special. Hahahaha. Gonna get things finished up...

I wish that video card had the nice finish facing up, OMG, what were they thinking? Oh that bezel wouldnt go on the top bay cause there were led's sticking out, in the way.

BTW...Happy Halloween....Stay Safe...oh and gimme all your candy...


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## grassi

gotta question about that cable...
Is there any way for me to dissconnect the ac97 jumper? Its actually killing me. Wonder how they go in, or if an extractor tool will work? They fully sleeved my case except for that little 3" jumper. OMG. Ya go through all of that and leave a little tiny bit, lol.


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## grimx133

Yah, they put the two ends on the cable because there are some boards that still use AC'97 audio. You might be able to cut and tape the wires individually, but I don't think I'd want to try that one. I'd say just run it back along the cable and put a wrap of tape around it. Or a bit of sleeving material if you have any.
That bezel sure does look good, very smooth. 
Hate that about the video cards too, they probably didn't want any fans blowing hot air towards the cpu so put the fan on the bottom. Kind of a shame, great looking card and once it's installed all you see is the bare pcb on the bottom.


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## grassi

okay i just hid it in the io plate area between those little silver "junction" boxes,lol, whatever you call them.

Okay, i have that long flat black sata cable that came with my case interior wires. Think it comes from the front case port, maybe. Anyways does this go into 1 of the sata (yellow) connectors on MB? Also i have my harddrive and dvd drive which also needs to be connected to those sata connects. I have 4 total can i choose any 3?


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## linderman

best to populate sata 0,1,2,3, in that order

the one that comes from the front panel doesnt have to be connected at all, unless you have plans of running an external sata drive ........ many cases have such a front panel port but its a 1394 firewire connector .......... are you sure thats not the case with you too ????????????????


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## grassi

linderman said:


> best to populate sata 0,1,2,3, in that order
> 
> the one that comes from the front panel doesnt have to be connected at all, unless you have plans of running an external sata drive ........ many cases have such a front panel port but its a 1394 firewire connector .......... are you sure thats not the case with you too ????????????????


not sure what you mean by populate sata 0,1,2,3?

As far as that plug goes its the one in this pic. It says serial ata on it in writing.
http://www.techsupportforum.com/f255/need-a-new-rig-269104.html#post1762137

i do have another cable coming from the case thats labeled 1394 but i thought i didnt have to use that?

see att. for front port picture...
BTW...Im just about ready to start this bad boy...i mean minutes....


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## grimx133

What Linderman means is to use the sata connectors in order. It isn't strictly required, but I always do something similar when I can. Page 7 of the pdf manual shows the 4 sataII ports and they are numbered 0, 1, 4, and 5. The 0 (zero) port is the one that is closest to the ram slots or farthest from the IDE header. I always plug the OS drive into the lowest numbered port. That isn't always possible, on my P5K-E wifi board the first port is covered by my 9800GT, not a problem with the gigabyte.
You don't have to plug the case sata cable in unless you have an e-sata drive you are using, that's an external sata drive and they are much faster than external usb drives. Something to consider if you ever plan on using an external. And for the 1394 firewire, there is no header for that board, so you can't use it and just stash the cable. There are PCI expansion cards available for firewire if you ever need it for some kind of firewire device. 
Good luck on the first post, that's the most nerve wracking part. Sure feels great once it's done though.


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## grassi

okay. So im only using 2 plugs 1 for my harddrive, and 1 for my dvd drive. So i guess i will use 0 and 1... 
Think im gonna have to call someone over, to start it up . I dont know what im doing...


Omg just realized, i think i have to plug my psu to my dvd. There were no directions, ggrrr... can i use the jumper off my harddrive or should i run a seperate one?


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## grimx133

Should always clear the CMOS before the first post, just make sure the computer isn't plugged in, take out the coin cell battery, then take a screwdriver or something and short the two pins that are right beside the battery. Hold it there for 5+ seconds and the take it away and put the battery back in. You need to go into the bios and set the time and date, then the boot device priority to dvd drive first and then hard drive so that it will boot from the OS disc. Normally the delete key is used to get into bios, but if I recall correctly, after a CMOS clear you should get a message saying to hit F1 or F2 to enter setup. I can't check that right now as I don't have a monitor hooked up to the other machine, waiting on a KVM switch.
OK, so once you have the first post and have changed the bios to boot from the dvd drive it's time to put in the OS disc and boot her up and install that OS. The first thing to do after the OS is installed is to install the chipset drivers. While in windows pop in the gigabyte disc and it'll load and the top left corner says intall chipset drivers. I should be able to remember, since I just wiped my hdd and installed xp in that machine last night, just can't recall the exact wording. Anyway, once you do that there is the option to install them all or individually, I just use the all option. 
When your chipset drivers are in, next up (for me) is the video card drivers. After that whatever software you want to put in. I'd suggest antivirus is a good place to start with that.


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## Wrench97

Drivers, Anti virus program then hook it up to the internet and do the windows updates before any other programs is usually best.


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## grassi

okay now about my dvd drive. I have 3 sets of serial ata plugs from the psu. 2 sets have 2 serial ata plugs and the 3rd has 4 plugs. I have 1 going to hard drive(with an extra plug). Do i need a new plug for the dvd drive or can i use the jumper coming from the harddrive cable?


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## Wrench97

Either or makes no real difference what ever is neater.


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## grimx133

Update for linderman and wrench. Was in the networking forum and happened to notice a new thread by Grassi. His new build is up and running. He is in johnwill's most capable hands trying to get it connected to the internet. Has an old Netgear router, but not too too familiar with their operation. 
I was glad to see that it was a case of "no news is good news."


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## grassi

Hello, havent turned it on yet or connected it. Im over at the networking forum trying to figure out how i can power it up. I also never shorted the battery or whatever, lol. Not liking that one too much. Ill post back when i can get it turned on.


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## linderman

*Thanks GRIMX * ray:.................... always happy to hear the gun actaully fires when loaded ! :laugh:


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## linderman

@ Grassi ................ Please start a new thread if you have any troubles with this rig ............... I *thank* our hardware forum manager (*Dai*)and asst manager (*tumbleweed 36*) for allowing us an abnormal amount of rope with this thread. ray:

will await a new discussion as needed :wave:



best regards


joe


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