# Mechanica, Electrical, Plumbing and Structural



## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

Need some advice from some of the DIY'ers and some of the pro's.
Stick with me here I tend to ramble.

Project #1: Convert from covered proch into a mud room. The front porch has two concrete flower boxes that measure 30"x48"X36" external, with 12" side walls. Attached to each one, is one, 2" steel column that is holding up the roof over top. I can cut off the front of the flower boxes and pull att the earth out, dig up the existing slab and re pour due to a crack down ther center of the slab. Once that is completed I was going to frame up the walls and run electrical into that room, conver the flower boxes into "wall lockers" or closets for coats, boot etc etc. 
Question: Should I leave the metal columns inplace and frame around them which is a viable solution, or support the roof, remove the beams and add new 4x4 columns?

Project #2: Frame in covered patio out back. The covered patio measures, 25'6"x10'x7'1" with a roof slope of 6:1. everything would have to be demolished and a new foundation would have to be poured of course, since it is against IRC and IBC to build on that slab.
Question: Since the roof has such a little slope to it, and it sits under the eave of the main house (which is guttered) what would be the best way to drain off the roof. As far as getting a/c and heat into this part of the room I was going to have a window ac unit, due to the fact our house is 1960's and all the hvac is slab runners. There are three windows that are roughly 12' wide that I was going to relocate into this new addition to make a nice "step down" into the addition. Also would I be able to salvage the metal siding on the exterior and move it to the new addition exterior and sheet rock where I took it off, your would new siding be beneficial.
Electrical will be brought over and dropped into the room and a new breaker installed.

Project #3: Flattening out a "mound" that is in my front lawn due to a water main replacement. Any ideas how to flatten it out? I figured I could run over it with my truck a few times and pack it down.

Any tips, advice etc would be beneficial.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi Lee:wave:

Is there any way you can post some pics??

General location would be nice to know.....just the zone. Freeze/thaw can be a factor. Sometimes even with a "footer", I have seen damage from freezing conditions when proper drainage does not occur.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

I will get some pictures up. I freelance for an architectural firm as well so I have asked my architects a time or two and they have told me what I can and cannot do but that is where it was halted. I dont want to pay them $90/hr to tell me what I already know.
I will be doing all the drafting to take it to the city and get a permit for construction as well.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Permits are good.... a pita but keeps you from being a hazard to you and family. 

I drew my own plans for my house..... 20+ yrs ago. Just a simple ranch with no frills. Watched the kids destroy most of it, I used nothing but the best then slowly watched it turn to crap at the hands of 5 kids. Kids are OK now... the house survived, too!!

I was/am a commercial carpenter.... retired due to economy. Waiting for things to pick back up. I gave my spot up at CSi so the kids could have an income.

http://www.consysohio.com/Default.asp

I worked on the feasability study for the Longaberger Basket...one of my highlights. I modified the light gauge framing system for the basket weave effect.... only minor in regard to simplifying construction of the individual panels.

I have 3 sons working there in varying capacities.... all are tradesmen. No white collars here. The oldest son works in the cabinet shop and in the field..... same as his dad. I got burned out from doing non-production projects. Once I turned the job into a production operation it was turned over to others.... they got the credit.

Enough of my useless drivel...let's see some pics and info on your climate.

Marc.....SABL..... Samuel Adams Boston Lager


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

climate...Kansas. I just had a new roof installed about a year ago with 25 year heritage shingles and a "d" style drip edge, cost a fortune so I am not looking to replace any part of that. I will post pictures tonight.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

*Large picture files...lengthy load time*









Front shot of the porch I would like to turn into a mud room. Note the nice flower boxes on either side, and the nice cracked slab.









This is the base of the metal column that is supporting the roof.









Top of the colum dissapears into the roof some where, my only thought is it is resting comfortably under the joist.









Side shot of the front porch, notice the roof slope and the new roof!!









crack in the slab goes all the way through to the ground underneath.









This is a straigh on shot on the alignment of the porch roof currently and the flower bed, notice that the side of the roof does not match up with the side wall of the flower bed, bummer.









Onto the back patio area. More of the wonderfull siding and cracking slab.









a side shot of the patio area, I estimated that I would demo the entire thing and start fresh since there is very little that can be salvaged off this.









This is how they attached the joists for the patio to the house, cut the metal siding and nail in the metal retainers.









This is a shot of the roof system. There are gutters from the roof above that catch the water and nothing spills onto the roof of the patio. Since the roof slope on the patio would be so minimal, what is a good drainage plan?


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi Lee,

Your pictures are hard to follow being that large. I've resized them and posted them below. It only wants to let me upload five of them on this post. I'll add the last one in a post below. Could you tell me how you got them to paste onto the post? One of the many things I can't do yet :grin:

I use a free paint program that is much better than Microsoft Paint. My Kodak thinks all pictures should be 34 inches wide.....so I use paint.net a lot for size reduction.
You can download it here: 

http://www.getpaint.net/


Best regards,
Mack1


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi Lee,

Here's the last one.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi Mack1:wave:

I looked earlier today and had to set the browser at 30%, but that makes reading any comments impossible.

I didn't comment yet..... spent most of the day in bed:sigh: 

I'll get back later... the kid will want the puter.

Hang in there Lee, I'm thinking:smile: The one comment I have right now is about the crack in the front slab.... no footing. The planters seem to be on footers.... I hope, due to the fact that the support columns are on top of them.


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi SABL,



> spent most of the day in bed


Don't get sick on us. I noticed you haven't been posting much lately.
(might be that Sam Adams beer.) I tried one of those the other day and decided that that is one of the few things that you and I don't have in common. Oh, I also don't wear bow ties:grin:



> the kid will want the puter.


Now, we almost have this in common. In my case, it is a grandkid and two great grandkids and I only have two computers. Guess I need another computer, the two GGkids fight a lot for computer time. 

Hi Lee,

I could help you with your project, but I couldn't compete with SABL. I build my house from ground up except for pouring and finishing the concrete floor. Including dirtwork, framework, trusses, roofing, bricklaying, cabinet building, electrical, plumbing, two fireplaces, etc. etc. etc. As I said, all but concrete finishing...... but I still can't compete with SABL. Think I'll just watch this one. 

Your pictures look like a 1:6 slope instead of 6:1 (rise over run) and I don't even know how you keep a roof with that pitch from leaking. Guess you guys don't get much rain or snow. 

Best regards.
Mack1


edit: I had roofing in there twice. Had it done last time, easier that way:grin:


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## DonaldG (Aug 23, 2007)

Hi All
I just copied & saved the BBIIGG pictures and was going to resize them but I see Mack1 has done the honours... Thanks Mack

Lee - so that the page will load quicker, I will remove the large images and replace them with smaller ones shortly.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks Donaldray: the pics really caused problems with my browser. They are easier to view now:grin: I had the same problem in the auto support group, had a hard time with the pics. 

Hi Mack1:wave:

Sam is an acquired taste..... it is a real heavy beer. I only started drinking it about 7-8 yrs ago because one of my sons wanted the bottles for homebrew. If you didn't care for Sam, don't even try AB American Ale. That is the only other beer that is close to Sam. If you want a *real* jolt go for the Guiness Xtra Stout

Feel free to join in.... I am not all knowing and seeing. I am a team player, there is no *I* in team. I have worked with many that had *I* problems when things went well but shifted to *they* when things went not so well. I am the opposite.... I shift to *I* when things go wrong with a project and others are involved.

Lee:wave:

Back to the pics:grin:

First issue is to determine the presence of any footer under the planters and how far below the grade they might be. You could try a metal rod (3-4 ft long) and a sledge hammer, driving the rod along side the block and seeing how far you get before the rod hits the footer. You can use any suitable method, but you must determine if and where a footer exists.

The steel columns will not go very far past the soffit (ceiling) and should be supporting a "header" which (from looking at it) will be 2 2X8's at minimum. 

There seems to be no problem with roof support, if the planters are on solid footing. I would knock the planters down to "grade" on the outside and below grade inside the mudroom. I"m still studying the pics.... your roof and the planters are offset from each other. Notice the position of the columns on the planters Looks like a minor miscalculation...BFD. Just have to find a solution without replacing the roof.

The sag in the slab indicates lack of footing....very common. If the planters are on footers (viable footers) they will have to be bridged with a connecting footer between them, along with being "pinned" with rebar at the connecting points. You don't want floating footers!! Tie everything together to prevent drywall cracking and trim separation... the foundation and framing make the job. 

The rear porch doesn't even appear to be 6:1.... that ratio would provide a 2" drop per 12" run. I might have looked at it wrong, but it looks like it follows the slab which should be 3/8" per foot for drainage. The main roof looks to be above a 2/12 pitch.... maybe 3 or 4 inch rise per foot. That's not much and the framing will be bigger than normal to carry a snow load. It looks like you have 2X8 rafters to compensate for any snow. I'm only going by looks.... another consolation is the era in which your house was built. The framing lumber was larger back then... the nominal sizes stayed the same but the net dimensions were reduced in the early '70's. 

Let us know what you find on the planter issue and footers... I'm still pondering the back porch:grin:


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

I took another peek at the back porch.... you have no fall on the roof or the siding is not level.

Mack1 over-estimates me.... I'm a trim carpenter. (I think) I've just had lots of experience in many areas.... including concrete.....dammit. 

Maybe I will have to explain myself to the forum and post some pics:

http://www.smugmug.com/browse/

I'm not there yet..... I used to be but cancelled due to my finances some time ago. If I get it back up I will let the forum know.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

I uploaded the pictures to my website and linked the image path to them from here. I will have to do some probing it looks like. If there are footers under the planters, but not under the slab, will I be able to drill into the footers under the planters and put some rebar in there then when I pour my new patio slab it will have the rebar support? Also should it be an actual slab on the front porch or just a foundation 24" wide by "X" deep and then use TJI's for the joists to bring it up to it's current height, then my flooring? 100 ideas and only 1 budget.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

No footers, The planters appear to be resting on the ground below, as is the cracked slab.


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