# Building a new pc, need advice.



## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

Not my first build, i am fairly savvy, but not compared to a lot of the people around here, so this is why i come hat in hand for advice, lol.

I have a P4 2.4 northwood, socket 478, 1 gig ddr, MSI MS-6728 NEO2 mobo with intel 865 chipset . Now i havent really kept up much on whats going on out there in the tech world, so i could really use some advice.
I do the standard stuff like most of us, internet, email, downloading, uploading, bit of video editing. I dont do games and i will likely use either built in video or a cheap agp or pci vid card, unless someone shows me thats not a good idea.

MSI has been very good to me, replaced my mobo for free after the warranty period, so i would try and stick with them if possible for the mobo. In addition, as far as i can see my MSI mobo has been great. And, i think, you can get a pretty decent MSI mobo for a fairly low price? Thats been my impression but if im wrong i dont mind finding out!

I am thinking what i have to buy is new ram, new mobo, and new cpu, and then maybe a new sata hard drive. Also perhaps a new power supply. That would depend on the situation as i do have a couple decent enermax ps's around, but only 20 pin. I believe i can convert it to 24 pin?

I have cases, ide hard drives, video cards, usb2 and firewire external boxes for hard drives. That is, unless there really isnt a really big advantage in going with sata over ide for my main hard drive. Or should i wait for sata 2? 
Where is the best bang for the buck in the cpu arena, intel or amd? Since i have a 2.4 mhz cpu and thinking of the rule of thumb that one should really double up the cpu speed when building or buying a new pc, where does that leave me?

In the past i have tended to go with a small, say, 80 gig hard drive for my os, then another similar size hard drive for my data, then a compliment of usb and firewire drives for backup, archives, music,and data. Is this still a good way to go?

Im sure this post is going to create some differences of opinions but please dont let that stop you from posting. I need to learn which way to go here and i know for a fact a few people here will come up with info that will save me money and help me get the best speed and reliability. Money is an issue but there is usually that sweet spot where you get the most for the least, so i suppose that is where i should be in the dollar department.

Oh, and i will be using win vista ultimate os, which i already have. And i have a Samsung 19 in widescreen lcd monitor, decent mice and keyboards on hand, so i dont need any advice on those items.

I guess i should point out that i am in Canada, but i can order on the net from most U.S. onlines. These days its a real advantage!

Thanks in advance for your help/info/advice/opinions.


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

What is your budget fill out these questions please

Budget: How much money are you willing to spend on the new build?


Brands: Are there any brands of components you want or don't want?


Multitasking: Will you be multitasking with this computer and if so, how much?


Gaming: Will you be gaming and if so, how much and how new are the games?


Calculations: Will you be doing any intense calculations or media encoding?


Overclocking: Do you plan on overclocking and if so, how much?


Storage: How much storage will you need and what will you be storing?


Legacy Support: Will you need support for older hardware like parallel, serial, or PS/2 devices?


Operating System: Do you want Windows XP or Vista, or Linux compatibility?


Case: Do you want help selecting a case and if so, how big do you want it?


Accessories: Do you want a keyboard, mouse, or other items included?


Recycled Components: Will you be reusing any components you already have?


Monitor: If you want a monitor, what size do you want and should it be widescreen?


Stores: Do you have any online stores that you prefer to purchase from?


Location: What country do you live in? 


Thanks


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

Darn, i really take offence to your post. First of all, i first read that before i posted and if you read my post carefully it i pretty much answer every question.

I did ask for answers but i do believe you are being, oh, i dont know the word, rude i guess.

So much for this thread.

jeez!


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

work out your components and the check what psu you need if you have to compromise do it on the components and not the psu
i usually use asus
msi check this one
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/460
cpu
http://www.shopbot.ca/p-58883-1681681.html
h/d prices are down compared to when you last bought
http://www.pricecanada.com/detail.php?product_id=471238
and utilise your current ones as well
ram
http://www.dealtime.com/xPO-Corsair-Memory-MEM-512Mx2-COR-TWIN2X1024-6400C4-R
psu
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371001
video
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10006383
the above was composed to make things clear and concise you copy and paste it and enter below each question what you desire


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks, Dai, for the info. I appreciate it and will check them out. And i certainly agree on the psu, the most important part of a pc. So i will likely go new but then again i have at least one good ps on hand with little or no use on it, and i dont do power intensive things like gaming . Guess it depends on the needs of the new mobo as well?
Perhaps i should have mentioned that i keep a separate pc for video editing. Anyway, its something i have to consider.

One big thing i am concerned about is what cpu socket has the most life left in it?

I felt i had given all the info needed and then some, no need to make it any longer than it already is. Just feel insulted after i put a lot of effort into my post.


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

the one i posted 775 socket,you never know when they will bring out a new one but the 774 will handle the quad cores as well as the duo
for pcie you need the amp output of the psu on the 12v + line to be a min of 26amps
the preprepared one makes it easier when searching with less errors being made


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for the further info and comment on the prepared one. I read it but i didnt read where it was required or where it was suggested. I felt it was a guide only.
I do see where it can be handy as all who make such a post can fill in the blanks, in a way, and others get used to it as a sort of forum. I was upset as it wasnt explained, just kinda thrown out as a negative comment when i felt i put a fair amount of effort into my original post, I felt i touched on all or most subjects.
Anyway, i do get your point, expect you get mine to.

thanks


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

Sorry about being blunt on the questions they simply make it easy for us to read, and as we are all volenters and get no pay our time is of the essence (i had to go to school in 5 min lol) 

To say on the motherboard cpu thing they have some motherboards out that will support intels next line of cpus.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

Ok I'll chime in now :wave:



I know MSI has been good to you; but in my humble opinion MSI has really staggered back a step or two since the release of the latest and greatest Intel Core-2 CPU's and it wont take much research to verify what I am saying, MSI has some solid offerings but for the same money you can get boards that have alot more. Asus and Gigabyte are the top dogs

I would suggest for you the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R

CPU = Intel socket 775 E6650

Ram sticks = two x one gig sticks of Corsair DDR-800 memory with timings of 4-4-4-12

Video Card = 7600 GS PCI express (nvidea chipset)

CPU Cooler = Zalman 9500

Hard Drive = 250 0r 320 gig (seems to be the sweet spot for price) Western Digital Sata-2 hard drive

Power Supply = Antec Trio Power 650 watt

Case= Coolermaster Centurion Med Tower Black

Combo Cd-rom / DVD drive = Sony for about $35.00


sorry but I am just too tired tonite to hunt for these links from newegg

maybe one of the fellas will be more "charged" and ready to throw down some actual links for purchase

but that should get you started on your hunt

nothing I have listed is Ultra fast / but No junk either and on a scale of 1-10 I would say its a solid *8*

any more power & speed than this and the $$$$$$ are going to really spring to life


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

BTW: you can check prices at newegg.com tigerdirect.com and ncix.com



and the motherboard and cpu were both just released this year 2007 / so they wont get stale too quickly


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

FWIW: I would say a buget of about $1000.00 to $1200.00 should put you in the ballpark


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

Dai, Linderman, thanks for the advice/info.
Links arent needed as I dont wany anyone doing my work for me, i just really appreciate good advice/info from people who know more than me and have kept up on whats going on.
And i pretty much know the online stores unless there are new ones this year. 
But, again, the info/advice, thats really what i am after. So if anyone wants to impart some more words of wisdom please feel free, its totally appreciated.
I appreciate the info on MSI. If another well-known company is that much better then its not my fault. Im sure we all try to stay loyal, but it has its limits. So with that info given, i will likely change strategy and check out the gigabyte and Asus as i like them too.

Any further info/advice will be appreciated!

So i guess the thinking is that socket 775 seems to have the most life left in it?
Would there be any good reason to hold off for a while? Is it worth my waiting for a bit or not. Usually it doesnt matter as new stuff comes out all the time, its the nature of the beast. But sometimes there is a good reason to wait.
What about sata2, is it really any better. Just my opinion, but sometimes a technology is supposed to be real great but in real life it ends up either not any better or just a tad better than what its replacing. So im wondering if anyone has any real life opinions about sata 1 and 2. Sometimes I trust real life over data.

As for the other thing, thanks for the response. Its all done now, all is well, so we can go forward.

thanks


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

so far the difference between sata 1 and 2 is not much
chipsets are the ones with movement at the present
p35
x38 a few weeks old
and now they are coming out with the x38
i would go with the p35 and ddr2 ram as ddr3 is not much of an improvement yet and very expensive


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

depends what your "super" goal is


example:


right now on mwave.com / click reburbished you can get a Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 revision 3.3 motherboard for $48.00 (thats less than 50% of their retail cost!) I am running that board right now myself.

The coolermaster centurion case in the refurb . cases and power supply section for $24.00

toghether thats some damn decent savings!

now the "warning" all the refurb stuff I have bought from mwave.com has all been retail boxed goods / very happy with all purchases thus far / their refurb stuff has a 15 day warranty which is plenty is verify the stuff works! these are for the most part / over stock clearance

The 965 motherboards are coming end of production life >>>> everything in computers has a short production life (you know this)

this board has all the specs needed for right to minute technology! 

The P35 as Dai has stated is more future proof as it will have support for future 45nm cpu's but unless you are a person that is willing to spend $$$$ every year then future proofing is really over rated!

there is no board or cpu or ANYTHING else that is going to keep you current for two years ! thats a dream

really who needs to be current all the time anyway ???????? does the system you are about to buy meet your needs for the next 2-3 years / HELL YES

There is also an Enermax EG-851-AX 660 watt PSU at the bottom of the mwave.com / refurb / power supplies that is selling for $66.00 thats is a great deal *thats less than half price too *!

the 965P board will take the intel core -2 CPU thats 1333 mhz fsb those only came out 3-4 months ago !

as for Sata-2 the best deal right now in drives is sata-2 as far as real advantages over sata-1 >>>>> I dont see any ????? put I wouldnt pay a higher price to get a sata-1 drive either / look for a 7200 rpm sata-2 (300mb/sec) drive with 16mb cache >>>>>> that will give you all the performance you need without chasing the crazy dollar stuff

video card >>>> I dont see your needs needing any more than the 7600 GS video card or *ATI 1600 Pro 512mb*>>>>> we use these in many our of office computers

if you want to take advantage of the parts I listed from mwave.com >>>> dont drag your feet------- they go FAST

there will be more listings in the future, but you will never what what they will have or when they will have it ???????


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

is there any "stuff" looming on the horizon that should make you wait ????


nope  I think we are in for a rather bland next 18 months

in reality Intel and the motherboard makers have milked about all they are going to get out of the present memory controllers we have seen thus far.

now its time for them to go to the drawing board and come up with something totally new and *from scratch*

this is very evident by the fact the P35 chipset is slighly improved over its older brother, the P965 

the newest; not yet fully released X38 chipset is already showing to offer nothing of performance increase over the P35 chipset >>>>> the same is true of the X-48 chipset

the only thing the X-38 will offer is PCI express 2.0 specification, which will be loved by gamers for better and faster video cards that will cost a wheel barrow of money, but that wont be of interst to a non-gamer

time to buy for a non-gamer is just as good now as it will be 18 months from now!


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

once you have ironed out what you want so to speak / then we can start getting serious on the links to each item ?????


:wave:


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

socket 775 has the most future life thats available now / hell socket 775 will be the socket for 45nm cpu's and they havent even hit the streets yet :laugh:


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

just for discussion



have a look at post #5 good outfit for the $$$

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f255/first-build-advice-needed-194478.html


Blackduck always spec nice rigs for the $$$$$ he has the experience to get the most bang for the buck


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

Again, thanks for the info on sata. Its what i expected but i need to double check all my thinking as some of its good and some isnt, like the MSI mobo thing for instance. I didnt know that MSI had slipped.
I do have to wait a couple weeks unfortunately. I have some money coming at at that time. Which is my reason for my thread, gather up as much info/advice as i can, but, unfortunately, cant act at this very moment. Too bad, i know you gotta move fast at mwave.

Any more advice/info? Doing pretty good here, not looking to put anyone out, but there is always that extra piece of info/advice that can help me out when i put my new system together.
As i said in my original post, i have what i need except for the mobo, ram, cpu for sure and likely the psu and hard drive although i have quite a few new or newer hard drives around, maybe i will forsake sata, not sure on that, but then again if i am getting a new mobo i suppose i should get the most of it and go sata for the main drive and ide/usb/firewire for the rest of my hard drives.
I already have lcd monitor, dual format double layer dvd burners, dvd, vid cards, cases.
Question: Is ddr2 slotted the same as ddr and backward compatible? Of course, even if it is one would create a bottleneck and get get full value of the mobo chipset using ddr over ddr2 or 3 even if its slotted the same, but i could use ddr until i got the ddr2, if that is possible. Is it?
And sata2 is backward compatible and cables the same?
Any other tricks, curveballs, lurking out there i dont know, lol?

thanks


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

there is no backward compatability with ram the slots are different for each variety
sata 2 can be jumpered to plain sata1


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

no problem


as long as you are not in a hurry once you have your money in hand, wait the 2-3 weeks until the right parts are at the *wave*

as for sata-2 yes its backwards compatible

sata is not really much faster than IDE the best part about SATA is the little thin data cable which improves air flow in the case BIG time; which is a notable factor in todays high heat systems


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

Linderman, i see either you were posting about the same time as me or i didnt read all your posts as i thought i had. So if any of my questions are already covered, please forgive, just didnt see 2 whole posts.
thanks


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

not a problem


ask away ray:


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

another consideration ????


at mwave.com /refurb / vga cards


any of the cards that are listed for $100.00 or more have PLENTY of horsepower for your needs

there are *X1650 XT ($89.00) * X1950 Pro ($116.00) 8600GT ($135.00) >>>>>>>all for HOT prices


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

Actually i was thinking of trying to get away with a 128 mb. I have it around here somewhere and its new, i think its pci slot.
Right now i only have a 32mb ati agp vid card with my Samsung 19in widescreen at 1440 x 900. but then again i had to use powerstrip to get to 1440x900, couldnt do it without powerstrip. Is that because of limitations of the vid card?
thanks


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

yeah thats way tooooo light on the video card 


the new boards need a PCI *express* card >>>>>> not the same as PCI slot

and the memory DDR & DDR2 are not interchangable :4-thatsba

nor do you want a board that "can" use both or either those are floppers in the performance department

take you time, buy pieces one chunk at a time until you are there


at least you dont need monitor, keyboard, mouse, drives or cd-rom's :smile:


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

You say the new boards new a pciexpress slot. Surely they must have pci slots and you can use one of them for a pci vid card?
Does the older vid card affect the lcd monitor resolution(see my previous post). Is that why i had trouble getting 1440x900 and had to use powerstrip? I think you answered my question already (above) but i just want to make sure and maybe you can explain a bit more?
thanks


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

yes your monitor settings difficulty were caused by the lacking abilities of the out dated video card


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

I was thinking of that and wondering at the time, glad you can confirm this as source of problem. The card i am using now is an nvidia geforce mx400 (64 mb AGP)) Funny, though, because i am sure the card itself will take higher settings, its just that this monitor wanted the 1440x900. It could be that i wasnt happy with a higher setting but i had so much trouble with it that i left it alone when i got powerstrip to handle 1440x900.
Then what about even newer mobos with onboard vid, wouldnt they have trouble with some lcd monitor settings like i did? Or are they handled differently by the mobo? This is getting technical but it all folds into what do i have to buy, what parts on hand can i use, or not. 
I guess one would want to then check the lcd monitor resolution settings the video card or onboard video can handle before making a choice?

I


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

lcd's usually run at 60mh


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

60mh is the refresh rate, i am talking about screen resolution. Some, perhaps most widescreen lcd monitors require a screen resolution of 1440x900. And my video card didnt list that screen resolution natively, so i had to use powerstrip to get the 1440x900 resolution.


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

this is what's listed
Resolution	2048 x 1536
Refresh Rate at Max Resolution	75 Hz
Color Depth at Maximum Resolution	16.7 Million Colors (24-bit)
have you checked for updated drivers


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

No, i didnt check for updated drives.
I couldnt set the refresh rate past 60. Seems to me, at the time, i could have gone with a higher screen resolution, but couldnt see very well and also the reccommended resolution for this monitor is 1440x900 so i left it at that.

As well, i dont know where you got your info, but it seems it varies for the same type card:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071104010721AAO6yzD

and here:

http://forums.legitreviews.com/about7475.html


Anyway, i think we are beating a dead horse here. I'd like to move forward if it's ok.

I got a lot of good info here. Anyone have anything to add?
If not, we can let this go for now and i will post when i have either got the parts i need or if i need some more advice or if someone feels i need more advice.

I am considering getting some or all of these parts via the "for sale " section of some forums.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

not many decent boards have onboard video any more, the onboard video is such a second rate option to a decent video card that they are just not appealing any more


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## nork (Dec 28, 2005)

Funny you should say that as i have always done just fine with onboard video.
Of course i am not a gamer, i think that means a lot when looking at video.
But i have had no problems with video at all until i got this Samsung 19in widescreen lcd monitor, thats when the problem started for me.
So that part i am having a hard time understanding. I mean, text has been fine for me with onboard video, and anything else, flash videos, all others.
Also, when i have added a video card, like this 64 mb geforce agp card, i dont see any difference from onboard video. The only difference is that i could get the 1440x900 resolution with some help from powerstrip. I guess i should have used updated drivers, still, my main argument seems to hold water, at least for me.
I just dont see any difference. Is it mainly for gamers, is there something i am missing? This particular issue, about video, is not a dead horse for me, lol.

On the other hand, like i said above, i will resurrect the main part of this thread when i am ready to buy my mobo, cpu, ram, ps, etc.
Any comments are still welcome, though.
thanks


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