# New speakers



## jtarchala (Sep 18, 2009)

I was looking for new speakers for my 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, i already have an aftermarket head unit and also got a pair of subs last year. So i was wondering what might a decent brand be for speakers and how you can really tell if they are good compared to others

thanks


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

powerbass has some pretty decent speakers for the price, so does Soundstream. You can get some name brand high $$$ stuff, but I have found that it doesnt hold up at times to the moderately priced stuff.


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## sleepyhead87 (Sep 18, 2009)

I think the best and only advice I can give you is to go to a local electronics store (best buy for example), and find their car audio department. There should be a sound board set up with various speakers and it should allow you to listen to the speakers individually and decide which one you like best. Tastes vary greatly among people; in an unfathomable way. ;]

For example, I'm quite content with muddy bass.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

ugh Best buy, you can buy your stuff there, but don't let them install it for you, they are horrible. Speakers will also sound different on a sound board then they will in your vehicle.


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## jtarchala (Sep 18, 2009)

well i talked to a sub shop guy that is close to me and he said to only go for kenwood since im not interested in getting an amp to power the speakers and i found these boston acousitics on crutchfield.com(http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8kEwpjKwrgE/p_065S65RC/Boston-Acoustics-S65RC.html?tp=95) but i wasnt sure if they are good or not. Also i only have a pioneer hu DEH-P3900MP that gives 4x22watts RMS


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

Kenwoods are ok if you purchase their expensive model which can run a few hundred for each set of speakers. I have some powerbass here that are $75 and are about 120 watts RMS. It all depends on your budget and what you are wanting to get out of the system.


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## jtarchala (Sep 18, 2009)

well i was hoping to clear up the vocals since when i put the windows down it is hard to hear and then once i turn it up it gets distorted a lot. i was hoping to keep it below $200. so i was starting to think on getting an amp or using one that my buddy has that he doesnt want


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

although an amplifier would help, they are not really necessary if you want to achieve clear vocals through the power range. If your speakers can handle the output from the deck then there should be no distortion, crackling or fading when you reach high volumes. Think of an amplifier as an assistant manager and the head unit as the store manager, the speaker just bags the groceries.


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## sleepyhead87 (Sep 18, 2009)

jtarchala said:


> well i talked to a sub shop guy that is close to me and he said to only go for kenwood since im not interested in getting an amp to power the speakers and i found these boston acousitics on crutchfield.com(http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8kEwpjKwrgE/p_065S65RC/Boston-Acoustics-S65RC.html?tp=95) but i wasnt sure if they are good or not. Also i only have a pioneer hu DEH-P3900MP that gives 4x22watts RMS


The Boston Acoustics you chose are not too shabby. Not price wise, or bang for the buck wise, but rather a few things you might want to look for when purchasing a speaker without intending to use an amplifier.

Two things you want to look out for:
1)*Sensitivity*
a) Sensitivity is somewhat important as since you don't plan on using an amplifier, you'll need every watt your head unit can eek out. The higher the sensitivity, the more efficient it is at using the wattage that your head unit sends out. Preferably, look for something which is 90+ db (@ 1 watt). The BA speaker is 92 db. Check.

2)*RMS Power Range*
a)The power range is also a factor in your decision as it gives you a general idea of whether or not that speaker would work (well) without an amp. A speaker with an RMS Power Range of 10-100 (like my Alpine SPR-17Cs) will most likely require an amp to sound any better then absolute crap. I currently have them amplified with only 60 watts RMS, and they're terrific. Basically you want a speaker with a low minimum RMS number. I'd say anything less than 2-5 minimum is okay. Though the lower the better imo. The BA Speakers are 2 minimum - 35 maximum RMS. Check.
*
I am not an expert of any sort. I am simply a DIY-er and this is what I've gathered. Anyone can feel free to slap me and correct me....just make sure you're actually right *


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## jtarchala (Sep 18, 2009)

alright well i was looking at these polk audio ones too and they seem good but there is two different ones that seem almost the same except ones cheaper but theres the Polk Audio db651(http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB651/Polk-Audio-db651.html?search=Polk+Audio+db651&ssi=0) or the Polk Audio db651s(http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB651S/Polk-Audio-db651s.html?search=Polk+Audio+db651&ssi=0) whats the major difference?


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## mporettim (Aug 31, 2009)

The second one (651s) is the shallow mount speaker (hence the "s"). Its in case the depth of the speaker will matter but it shouldn't in your case. 

I'd go with the normal 651 at half the cost, with better power handling and better frequency response. I have the db651 and I'm am very happy with it. I ended up buying Polk bookshelf speakers too, I just love the way Polk speakers sound. 

BTW, I bought mine for $100.:normal:


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## jtarchala (Sep 18, 2009)

alright thanks for clearing that up and i might just go with those polks


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

The reason for the shallow mount speakers are for vehicles like Mazda and Toyota's that have clearence issues with the window tracks in the door. Put in a speaker that is to deep and you cant roll your windows all the way down.
It doesnt matter what the high end range is on a speaker anyways, if you go with a 200 watt speaker, they will sound fine and can take every bit of juice your head unit can throw at it, alternatively, you would be set to add an amp at a later date as well.


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## sleepyhead87 (Sep 18, 2009)

lcurle said:


> The reason for the shallow mount speakers are for vehicles like Mazda and Toyota's that have clearence issues with the window tracks in the door. Put in a speaker that is to deep and you cant roll your windows all the way down.
> It doesnt matter what the high end range is on a speaker anyways, if you go with a 200 watt speaker, they will sound fine and can take every bit of juice your head unit can throw at it, alternatively, you would be set to add an amp at a later date as well.


Hey Icurle, I just want to add on a little bit though;

Even though they'll sound fine,they won't sound great. I'll try to make this simple. If you buy speakers rated for 10-100 watts RMS, and use your headunit (that only outputs say 15-20 watts RMS) to power them; well... I'd say you just wasted money on those speakers as you were better off with your stockers (as with all things, there are exceptions).

The speakers won't be able to shine with so little juice. You're always better off overpowering your speaker (100 watt amp for a 60 watt speaker) then to not have enough power for them. Granted you have to be more careful in tuning it, but it'll sound way better. 

The reason your stockers would probably sound better is because the speaker was designed with the low wattage in mind, so it shines with the little amount of watts the head unit sends out.

I've personally tested this in my 95 civic, using my 14 year old stock speakers and my alpine spr-17cs. With just the head unit powering them, I think my stock speakers were about three times better then my Alpines. However, as soon as I amped the Alpines, they got about ten times better then the stockers. 

No, it doesn't mean you have to amp them, just find speakers that will be properly powered by your head unit.


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## jaggerwild (May 21, 2007)

Sleepy,
The man asked to CLEAR UP the sound,


> The speakers won't be able to shine with so little juice. You're always better off overpowering your speaker (100 watt amp for a 60 watt speaker) then to not have enough power for them. Granted you have to be more careful in tuning it, but it'll sound way better.


 I beg to differ as I have seen a system with 30 WATTS that as far as sound "quality goes" will blow away a something with 200 WATTS, and over powering a speaker does not give quality but does give distortion and eventually fails all together. 

@jtarchala,
A good set of quality speakers driven by the head unit will render the effect your wanting, as Lee said. If you feel you will be adding an amp to them then I would suggest using or looking into a component system for you front speakers. Again they will give great sound even if only from the head unit, this also gives you a chance to place the tweeters any where you want to.


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## mporettim (Aug 31, 2009)

I think what sleepy meant when he said its better to overpower a speaker is that the amp won't have to work as hard. 

The distortion rating on amp goes up as the power it is supplying goes up. So an amp working at 50% capacity will have less distortion then an amp working at 100% capacity.

Although you do have to be careful that you don't send too much power to the speaker because that can cause distortion too and ruin the speaker.

I personally didn't notice a difference with my polks off my pioneer HU compared to when they were amped...at low volumes. Assuming you are within the limits of the HU, I don't see how there could be a difference between HU or amped. However when you turn it up there will certainly be difference in the sound. 

I'll never have non-amped speakers again. I like it loud. :grin:


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## sleepyhead87 (Sep 18, 2009)

jaggerwild said:


> Sleepy,
> The man asked to CLEAR UP the sound,
> 
> 
> I beg to differ as I have seen a system with 30 WATTS that as far as sound "quality goes" will blow away a something with 200 WATTS, and over powering a speaker does not give quality but does give distortion and eventually fails all together.


QQ Jagger, stop hating on me  I wasn't talking about "more watts = better". I was talking about properly supplying any speaker with sufficient watts. I used the example of my Alpines and my stock speakers. My stock speakers were properly powered as they were 15 watts RMS, I'm assuming roughly the amount of wattage my stock unit was sending out. They seriously omgwdfbbq owned my Alpines when I compared the two side to side. I don't blame my Alpines though, they wanted 100 watts, but they got the bare minimum of 10. Once amped, my Alpines beat my stock speakers to a pulp (like they should).




mporettim said:


> I think what sleepy meant when he said its better to overpower a speaker is that the amp won't have to work as hard.
> 
> I personally didn't notice a difference with my polks off my pioneer HU compared to when they were amped...at low volumes. Assuming you are within the limits of the HU, I don't see how there could be a difference between HU or amped. However when you turn it up there will certainly be difference in the sound.
> 
> I'll never have non-amped speakers again. I like it loud. :grin:


Yes thank you. I forgot to add in one bit that you're addressing. Sure, you won't get any distortion from the head unit, but the question is...can you even hear the music that well?  Amping speakers meant to be amped does make a noticeable difference compared to using head unit power. With head unit power, my amped speakers didn't distort, but they sounded flat and weak as hell, and I could barely hear them! When I amped them on the other hand, I almost believed I had a sub in the back as I was able to make my car rattle so hard I thought my doors were gonna fall off.

It's a night and day difference, so if you don't plan on getting an amp, don't get speakers that are meant to be amped. Otherwise you'll be a ******* for wasting a set of speakers and not enjoying them as they're meant to be enjoyed.

And, yes, I realize my replies are all jumbled and confusing to read. Not my fault I have dain bramage :[ But I'm just trying to inform the guy about the obvious difference. Of course, what he does is ultimately up to him, and I actually shouldn't care too much as I did my homework and am quite happy with MY system (which is the only one I should be worrying about)....Except the noise Q_Q


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## mporettim (Aug 31, 2009)

sleepyhead87 said:


> so if you don't plan on getting an amp, don't get speakers that are meant to be amped.


All the after market speakers I can think of can handle more then what an after market HU can put out. So they can always benefit from being amped.

Its just not worth spending the extra money on a speaker that can handle another 70 watts over a different speaker if you are only going to be able to send it 20watts.

One mistake I made was buying stuff for my system as it was, thinking I wasn't going to upgrade any more. Boy was I wrong, spend the extra money now and plan ahead. You'll be glad you did later on.


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## lcurle (Oct 5, 2008)

You want my final opinion.... get the speakers that you want, everyone has their own opinion on stereos, just talk to a MECP certified guy and they will be able to answer your questions. MECP people are trained in car audio/video so we can explain OHMS LAW, which some people apparantly cannot grasp.


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## sleepyhead87 (Sep 18, 2009)

mporettim said:


> All the after market speakers I can think of can handle more then what an after market HU can put out. So they can always benefit from being amped.
> 
> Its just not worth spending the extra money on a speaker that can handle another 70 watts over a different speaker if you are only going to be able to send it 20watts.
> 
> One mistake I made was buying stuff for my system as it was, thinking I wasn't going to upgrade any more. Boy was I wrong, spend the extra money now and plan ahead. You'll be glad you did later on.


There are plenty of speakers that have a RMS rating of 2-30ish. I don't know about stock head units, but I see plenty of aftermarket head units that output at least 20 and more. ....I'm pretty sure we can all agree it'd be downright retarded to amp these 2-30 speakers just for an extra 5 watts which will make no difference. I don't even think there's amps with that low of a wattage rating?

This one is 2-28.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KFC1362/Kenwood-KFC-1362S.html?o=p&tp=105&tab=features_and_specs

The speaker companies are aware not everyone is interested in an amp, and thus have catered to the market. Even though you might not be interested, there's always someone else who is.


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