# Pulled out cpu with HSF



## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Hi, i needed to rma an AMD M4A89GTD PRO motherboard and i was gently moving the HSF to try and break the thermal compound seal, but it was stuck so tight that it pulled out the CPU with it.
Do you think theres a chance the CPU will be ok? :-\
Im not sure how to remove the cpu from the HSF now, it's completely glued to it. I could not find any isopropyl, i checked the pharmacys, and will check DIY stores tomorrow for some. I have white spirit and surgical spirit(Castor Oil 2.5%, Methyl Salicylate 0.5%, Diethyl Phthalate 2.0%, Industrial Methylated Spirit 95%).
Should i try twist it off or use alcahol on the edges? Is it ok hold the edges of the chip?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Try using a hair dryer to heat the chip. It is OK to hold the CPU by the edges.
Did you inquires about alcohol at the pharmacy's? Alcohol is a pretty standard stocked item. Grocery stores usually carry it also.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Hi Tyree,
Thanks for replying.

I will try using a hair dryer, thnx.

I asked in about 3-4 for isopropyl alcahol and two said they didnt stock it, and the other others didn't know what it was..
They all had surgical spirit though, but that wasn't rly what i wanted but got some anyway.
I had a look in grocery store in cleaning departement, but didn't see it, maybe i looked in wrong place though, ill check again.

Do you think my cpu will still work?

When you are handling computer hardware, can you ground yourself via touching your computer case while it's on a wooden desk unplugged, or does the PSU need to be plugged in and switched on at the plug/back of PSU?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

If the CPU came straight up it is probably OK.
Check the CPU for bent or broken pins.


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## Dblanchard1278 (Jun 18, 2009)

Every body carries rubbing alchohol and it will be next to the hydrogen peroxide in the first aide section where they keep bandages. I don't see why you are having a hard time getting it, maybe you are calling it by the wrong name.


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## Proxyman (May 30, 2011)

you can pry against the cpu's back side. Protect the pins at all cost. Maybe a wedge of a popsicle stick. Or a crowbar.

I had one computer where someone used two-part epoxy to hold the two together. I wedged "Safety Razors" all around the Cpu as far as they would go, then started prying apart the center epoxy.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Thnx for more replys.

The pins are not bent 
I will try get some rubbing alcahol today, thnx.

I don't know how to ground myself while working on pc. Does the power supply need to be plugged into the wall and the wall socket switched on but the PSU switch in off possition?
Does it have no effect touching a case that isn't plugged into power outlet?
I live in the uk. I do have an anti-static wrist strap, but iv just worn it attached to my case that was unplugged.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Hmm, according to another thread i saw, just wearing an antistatic wrist strap attached to the case, even if the case is empty, will stop me destroying the hardware i touch. 
I thought i had to have the PSU in the case and the PSU plugged in to a wall socket for it to work.

What i don't understand about this comment made by someone on another forum: "Ground yourself to the case. You are actually putting yourself at the same potential as the case. It is a false assumption that you are sending the "static charge" to ground. The damage comes from the difference in potential between you and the component."

Can't the component be at a different potential to the case?


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

I'ld have to say you are over-thinking this. 

Usually, simply touching the metal chassis with your hand or nudging it with your arm once in a bit will keep you at the same potential as the chassis. Not a lot more you may do than that.

Wearing a wrist strap puts you to the same potential as whatever the strap is attached to. And to whatever is attached to that. In the case of a computer chassis, that would be chassis ground. All components in your computer, if mounted metal to metal will be safed at chassis ground. If the power supply is mounted and connected to mains power, whether it is switched on or off, means you (and the computer) are also at earth ground (provided, of course, your home is properly wired).



> "Ground yourself to the case. You are actually putting yourself at the same potential as the case. It is a false assumption that you are sending the "static charge" to ground. The damage comes from the difference in potential between you and the component."
> 
> Can't the component be at a different potential to the case?


Not if it is proper installed. 
Each component should have some metal bit in contact with the metal of the chassis. Also it will have a electrical or logic ground in common with the other components (through the power supply).


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Thanks for the explanation.
Well, im sending my mobo to be repaired so all my components are out of the case atm(so at different potential to my case?). 
All that is inside the case is the cd drives and my PSU which is unplugged. 

I figured, when re-building my comp, i could just attach my wrist strap to the metal of my case and handle the components, without having to plug the PSU in. Is it necessary for the case to be earth grounded aswell then?


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

No. A few basic precautions is all that is really necessary: ground yourself to the case; work on a non-conductive surface such as wood or ceramic; wood, tile or concrete floor (no carpet) in the work area.


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## Proxyman (May 30, 2011)

I think the whole idea of static discharge destroying hardware is overblown, and provides opportunities for hysterics to gain some credibility by playing on people's fears of the unknown. It might happen every once in a while, but then fires, lightening stikes and hoards of marauding cats also cause problems.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Proxyman said:


> I think the whole idea of static discharge destroying hardware is overblown, and provides opportunities for hysterics to gain some credibility by playing on people's fears of the unknown. It might happen every once in a while, but then fires, lightening stikes and hoards of marauding cats also cause problems.


Many people who have damaged expensive hardware from static discharge have had that same mind set. :smile:


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

I've never used a grounding strap and always ground myself to the case without ever killing a motherboard. Then again I don't do my building of computers on carpet either.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Thanks for replying guys.

I just got my motherboard back from rma, so am about to start building it again. Ordered some isopropynol 99.9% from amazon.
I was having a look on artic silver website as i wasn't sure if I was suppose to apply a pea sized drop in the center and spread it out thinly using a piece of card, or if im suppose to put the drop in the center and just install the heatsink ontop of it without spreading it myself....

Then I noticed this:

"Thermal pad removal: Most thermal pads are made with paraffin wax that melts once it gets hot. As it melts, the wax fills the microscopic valleys in the heatsink and metal cap of the CPU. To minimize permanent contamination of the heatsink and metal cap, the thermal pad should be removed from the heatsink prior to turning on the computer. *Never use heat or hot water to remove the pad, as the heat will melt the wax into the heatsink.*"

I was planning to use a hair dryer like mentioned Tyree and have seen others suggest this, but now im not sure :S
Is it still ok? What if i tryed prodding the edges with a peice of wood and some isopropanol


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## Jay_JWLH (Apr 30, 2008)

Proxyman said:


> I think the whole idea of static discharge destroying hardware is overblown, and provides opportunities for hysterics to gain some credibility by playing on people's fears of the unknown. It might happen every once in a while, but then fires, lightening stikes and hoards of marauding cats also cause problems.
> 
> 
> Tyree said:
> ...


I would be one of those people. My computer will be live, and I would be inside the case touching the RAM and graphics card (passive cooling part of it). All this, despite having my own static strap available. To this day, I haven't managed to cause any damage, but it could happen one day. You just need to be responsible for your own actions.

To properly discharge yourself, you can use either a static strap, or you can touch the case/PSU. The first is best for ongoing protection. Although you should switch the PSU off, there is no need to unplug it since the same cable also grounds the computer (which is what you need).




ant9985 said:


> Thanks for replying guys.
> 
> I just got my motherboard back from rma, so am about to start building it again. Ordered some isopropynol 99.9% from amazon.
> I was having a look on artic silver website as i wasn't sure if I was suppose to apply a pea sized drop in the center and spread it out thinly using a piece of card, or if im suppose to put the drop in the center and just install the heatsink ontop of it without spreading it myself....
> ...


It is important that you don't let any of the liquids get into parts of your computer, whether that be the motherboard, or over the edges of the CPU. A good reason why you shouldn't apply too much thermal paste that will overflow and potentially cause a short circuit (although I think they aren't electrically conductive).

If you melted it anyway, and it leaked, then use gravity as your advantage. Put the heatsink upside down, with the CPU pointing up. One important thing to note is contaminants. So you may want to go through a bit of cleaning before seating it back into the motherboard.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

ant9985 said:


> Thanks for replying guys.
> 
> I just got my motherboard back from rma, so am about to start building it again. Ordered some isopropynol 99.9% from amazon.
> I was having a look on artic silver website as i wasn't sure if I was suppose to apply a pea sized drop in the center and spread it out thinly using a piece of card, or if im suppose to put the drop in the center and just install the heatsink ontop of it without spreading it myself....
> ...


The above is a possibility but hot dry air (Heat gun/hair dryer) has always worked for me.:4-dontkno
For the application of thermal paste, I prefer to spread it myself so I know that is is spread evenly and thoroughly.
Paste that uses metal is most assuredly conductive. I prefer/use ceramic paste. No conductivity and doesn't dry out and harden.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

ant9985 said:


> Most thermal pads are made with paraffin wax that melts once it gets hot. As it melts, the wax fills the microscopic valleys in the heatsink and metal cap of the CPU. This is what the alcohol is for.
> 
> To minimize permanent contamination of the heatsink and metal cap, the thermal pad should be removed from the heatsink prior to turning on the computer. * Never use heat or hot water to remove the pad, as the heat will melt the wax into the heatsink.* Not really an issue, is it? It has already been running and is already melted in. This would be the reason for the difficulty in separating the CPU from the heatsink.


Go ahead and use the hairdryer. A little side pressure on the cpu (not a lot; you don't want to put into orbit when it lets go) should help it along.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Ok, thanks for the advice, i will try it.

Bench testing some old mobo+cpu and think iv put too much thermal paste on, now you explained it Jay. I spreaded a thin layer over the HSF right to the edges using a credit card and put a bit on the cpu aswell(without spreading), then put the HSF on and fastened it. It was trying to slide off before i put the bolts in :-\
Maybe ill have to remove it again, thnx for the info.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

That's too much paste.
A drop about the size of a grain of rice is plenty. I spread it evenly and thin enough to see the printing on the CPU through the paste.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Oh right ^^
Ill just spread it on the cpu then next time and not put any on the HSF.
Thanks.


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## Jay_JWLH (Apr 30, 2008)

CPU is first fitted on the motherboard. Then apply the thermal paste. Spread the paste if needed to help make it spread evenly (the heatsink will do the rest). Then put the HSF on. This video should explain it perfectly well.

‪How to install Arctic Silver 5 (thermal paste)‬‏ - YouTube


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Ty for the vid Jay.

I tryed the hair dryer on the CPU/HSF but i couldn't seem to remove it, and i don't wanna put the hair dryer up close and leave it there for a few minutes since ill just end up destroying the chip. Just left it on for 5 seconds or so each time and trying to twist it inbetween.

I tryed tilting the HSF and dropping lots of isopropyl on it thinking it might slide down and soak all the way underneath but i think it just goes round it. 
Spent all morning trying to remove this thing, it's so annoying. It's just completely glued to the HSF. This can't be normal right?

It's an AMD Phenom II and i think it came with a thermal pad and said ill void the warrenty if i use any thermal paste instead(lol)


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Hmm, gonna try using some dental floss


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## brobarapas (Sep 26, 2009)

this thread is confusing,what are you trying to do now,remove the heat sink from the cpu after applying new thermal paste?or are you still trying to remove the heat sink with the old thermal paste still applied,?also you mention you will void warranty if you apply new thermal paste and remove the old,did you buy a retail cpu with the paste already applied,if so why do you want to apply new paste?also forget the alcohol cleaner ,talk nicely to your missues and get some nail varnish remover ,it will do the same job,forget about all the liquids you are trying to mix to create 100%alcohol


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## brobarapas (Sep 26, 2009)

‪Install a Processor (CPU - Intel or AMD)‬‏ - YouTube


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

No, i am still trying to remove the CPU from the HSF that i originally pulled out together. The CPU is stuck really close to the bottom of the HSF, i can't rly see the gap it's so small so i can't seem to fit anything under to try and scrap away the paste. I tryed dental floss but it wont even go under it, just scrapes away the edge of the silver cap.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

*brobarapas*: If you will read from the first of the thread, you will see the cpu has become cemented to the heat sink. This happens, often with the factory applied thermal pad, and when it does, it is a miserable and time consuming job trying to separate them.

Nail polish remover will work, but be warned, it will melt any plastic it comes in contact with. It will also remove the lettering stamped on the cpu.

*ant*: Find a way of clamping the heat sink to your work bench. A large c-clamp or a carpenters screw-clamp would be perfect. Now, using a fine tipped screwdriver, carefully try to pry the cpu off. This will most likely mar the surface of the heat sink, but working slowly and carefully, any damage will be minimized. 

A bit of fine emery cloth will clean it up later.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Thanks gcavan i will try this.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

By the way, remember, the cpu will easily takea temp of 60°C. This is quite warm and almost uncomfortable to the touch. I wouldn't worry about overheating it with a blow dryer.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Ok ty. The problem im having is the gap between the cpu/HSF is too small to get anything underneath it. Im gonna try again with the hair dryer, and give it longer this time.


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## brobarapas (Sep 26, 2009)

gcavan said:


> *brobarapas*: If you will read from the first of the thread, you will see the cpu has become cemented to the heat sink. This happens, often with the factory applied thermal pad, and when it does, it is a miserable and time consuming job trying to separate them.
> 
> Nail polish remover will work, but be warned, it will melt any plastic it comes in contact with. It will also remove the lettering stamped on the cpu.
> 
> ...


well post 19/21 had me a bit confused,I have always used nail varnish remover and never had any problems,Also I have never seen it remove lettering from the chip,if it did ,is this a problem?the guidance arrow is on the corner of the chip and not were the paste is applied,it can be on top or the under side depending on the chip,


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

I got them appart finally using the hair dryer 

Thanks for all the advice in this thread


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Heat always worked for me.


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## brobarapas (Sep 26, 2009)

well done pal,patients is a great thing


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Think i need to get a new HSF though, there was a square line pattern where the cpu had been. I tryed some wet and dry sandpaper on it, and put lots of little scrape marks in it :-\
So probably no good now..


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## brobarapas (Sep 26, 2009)

ant9985 said:


> Think i need to get a new HSF though, there was a square line pattern where the cpu had been. I tryed some wet and dry sandpaper on it, and put lots of little scrape marks in it :-\
> So probably no good now..


That is normal to have does marks,the mark is from were it was screwed to the cpu,is the h/s aluminum or copper based


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

When you sand a heatsinks base you should allways use a flat surface so you keep the surface level. Don't do it by hand as it can cause the surface to become uneven and not make a flush contact to the cpu's heat spreader.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Copper.

Does it need to be super smooth looking? One side has lots of little scrape marks now, cause i tryed removing the lines with wet and dry sand paper.
Will AS5 fill in these gaps?
I thought u needed it very smooth, so only had scratches u can't see.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

The smoother the better heat dissipation (transfer) that you'll get.


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## brobarapas (Sep 26, 2009)

Use a piece of glass if you have it,as amd said place it on a flat surface,i use p100 sand paper to start,then p1200 to finish


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Ok, will give it another go then, thnx.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Heatsink lapping tutorial: How to Lap a Heatsink Guide - Overclockers Club


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Just as a side note before I forget. Next time you remove a heatsink let the computer run for 5-10 minutes first and that will heat the compound thus allowing you to easily remove the heatsink.


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Ok.

Im just gonna get a new HSF as i think iv probably ruined it with my first go at sanding.

Any recommendations? I use an antec900 case...


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

I chose a coolermaster hyper 212 plus CPU HSF.
I connected everything up to bench test it, but the CPU fan spinned for 1-2 rotations and then stopped. I freaked out and switched the power off fearing it would destroy my CPU...

Everything seems to be plugged in ok, the HSF is plugged in. What should i do? i heard the CPU can be destroyed within 10 seconds with no fan :-\


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Is the HSF connected to the CPU fan header of the Mobo?


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Yep, the fan is connected to 'cpu_fan' 4pin slot.

Idk.. maybe i needed to run it for longer, but i thought fan should start spinning as soon as you switch it on, since cpu only lasts a few seconds without it right? Hope it isn't damaged from being on without fan, it was on maybe 8 seconds before i managed to switch it off(damn power switch takes 3-4 seconds held in to work)


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## ant9985 (Nov 22, 2008)

Decided to try get into bios, and the fan started to spin up after maybe 8-10 seconds 
It's going fine. Gonna leave it for 30mins like the guide says, but cpu temp is 33C and mobo temp is 25C, so all is working fine i think 

Can mark this thread as solved if u like, ty for all help.


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## Jay_JWLH (Apr 30, 2008)

Without a heatsink attached to the CPU, yes, it can hit unstable temperatures. But that doesn't mean that with a heatsink attached and no fan running, that it will overheat. The heat is still dissipating into the metal first, before the fan helps to push it out into the air. I did one time accidently not put a heatsink back on, and it hit unstable temperatures pretty quickly, quite simply because I didn't clip it back on properly. Without the fan, it pretty much acts as a passive cooler.
Have you ever seen a passive CPU cooler before? Fortunately they aren't always this huge:









The setting to change from instant off to 4 seconds will be somewhere in your BIOS.

The fan probably didn't kick in right away because the CPU temperature was too low to be worth it. You need to wait about that 20 seconds before the CPU reaches idle temperature, probably less. Until then, the fan is doing nothing except waste power.

You can mark the thread as solved yourself using the thread tools at the top of the page.


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