# Voip



## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

I have recently subscribed to VOIP with AT&T. I love it, but whenever I make or receive a phone call and surfing the net at the same time, my responses to the phone conversation are delayed by about 3-4 seconds. Do anyone else have VOIP and do you experience the same problem?


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## JamesO (Mar 30, 2005)

That should not be the case.

What type of Internet connection do you have, cable or DSL?

How is your network configured? Router then VOIP box?

You may need to tweak some settings in your network, you may have to prioritize VOIP packets, but we need to understand what your Internet connection and network looks like. We allso need to know the make and model of your router and VOIP box.

JamesO


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

I have DSL @ 728 in/128 out. I have a D-link DVG-1120M that AT&T sent me and a Westell Dual Connect modem from the phone company. I don't have a router, unless the D-link is one. I had to put in a Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC card, because my computer didn't have one. My DSL is connected through USB and the VOIP box is through the Ethernet. As for network configuration, I'm not sure what info you need. :4-dontkno . Where do I find it?


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## JamesO (Mar 30, 2005)

OK, I am a bit weak with DSL and VOIP, however, I do know, unlike with cable modem service, you can saturate your DSL upload or download easily with web browsing and/or downloads, which could cause a problem with your VOIP. There may be a way with the DSL modem?? to set up VOIP priority so these packets are sent ahead of browsing and downloads??

Try this: go to *Start, Run*, type *cmd*, then type ping www.cisco.com -t and watch the ping times, they should be fairly steady. Then make a phone call and see what the ping times do. Then start browsing and see how the ping times react. If they start getting longer and you hear problems with your VOIP, then you have probably saturated your DSL link?

In the command prompt box, to end the ping, hold down the ctrl key and hit c a few times until the pings stop. 

Also do a bandwidth speed test with and without a phone call going and see what happens. Look at this link and choose ADSL:

http://bandwidthplace.com/speedtest/

Let us know what your speeds are.

Try to open a web interface on your DSL router and see if you can find any configuration pages. Do not change anything yet!!

Go to *Start, Run*, type *cmd*, type *ipconfig*. Look at the last line, it should be your *Default gateway* (192.168.x.x??). Type this IP address in your web browser and see what happens. If you get a password prompt, try admin for name and password or admin for name and password for password.

I will also need to look into the VOIP box you have to see what features is has.

I am sure some other folks may have some suggestions as well.

Let us know what happens.

JamesO


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

Thanks for the help. Here are the results:

1st Ping - ranged from 85-92 going up and down
2nd Ping (with phone call) - increased 110-196
3rd Ping (browsing) - 202-247

Packets: sent 123, received 113, lost 10
Approx. round trip times: min=81ms, max=1063ms, avg.=114

commun. without phone call -518KB
comm. with phone call -253.4KB
storage w/o p/c- 63.2 KB
storage w/pc- 30.9
1 MB file DL w/o p/c- 16.2 sec.
1 MB file DL w/pc- 33.1

dslrouter: 192.168.1.1
connect rate: 768KBS/128

I didn't get a password prompt or anything. I have a user name and password. Thanks for all of your help.


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## johnwill (Sep 26, 2002)

I have Vonage, and what you describe isn't all that unusual. If you want the VoIP phone to have priority, you need to connect it directly to the modem, then connect the router to the VoIP adapter. I put my router into the DMZ of the Motorola VT1005V VoIP adapter, and that solves that issue. Your upload speed of 128 is marginal for VoIP, that's part of the problem.

An option that Vonage has is reduced bandwidth that you can configure, full bandwidth is 90kb/sec, and you can cut it down to 60kb/sec and 30kb/sec, obviously sacrificing some sound quality in the process. I tried mine at 30kb/sec, and the voice was still fine, but my FAX no longer worked, so I put it back.

I have Comcast 4000/384 service, so I have more bandwidth to play with.


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

You mentioned a router. Do I need that in addition to the DSL modem and the VOIP box? What does it route? What is DMZ? I looked over the features with Vontage, and AT&T has them beat in my opinion. As for my bandwidth, I know it doesn't compare to yours. Since I have satellite instead of cable, I didn't think I could get cable DSL instead of through the phoneline. I am just confused about a lot of things right now!


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## johnwill (Sep 26, 2002)

There are a number of types of broadband services. Cable, which is typically your cable TV provider, DSL, which is typically your phone company, and Satellite, which is any number of people, as long as they have a rocket. :grin:

You don't need a router, it's just that most folks that have broadband seem to have more than one computer connected to it. Perhaps if you gave us the make/model of the equipment in use, we'd be better able to offer suggestions.

Normally, the VoIP box is first in line to use the bandwidth, and the computer sits behind it. This allows the VoIP to use whatever bandwidth it needs to keep the voice quality at the proper level.


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## JamesO (Mar 30, 2005)

John's thought process was quicker than mine, so some of my comments may be redundant.

You do not have satellite for Internet access based upon the fact you have a Westell DSL modem.

As for your bandwidth John is correct, you upstream BW may be a limiting factor. You might be able to lower you VOIP rate (will reduce voice quality to some degree), this may help. You might be able to increase your uplink BW from 128 kbps to 160 kbps with your DSL provider for a small increase in the monthly fee.

As for your connection between the PC and DSL modem, I think you indicated this is USB? I really am not a fan of USB "network" connections. Not sure this is really hurting anything, just not they way I would configure my network. If you had a router in the mix, you could probably connect you PC via Ethernet and would allow some growth for other PC's and/or a networked printer. Not sure how many computers are in the house and how many to be added? I know you are also looking into a new printer, I personally would not buy a printer these days that does not have a network port! Wireless is another reason folks are using routers as well. Wireless routers are really dropping in price, so for $75 or less you can get almost anything on the market these days! With rebates some are even free!

As for the DMZ (de-militarized zone), I will let someone else cover the ins and outs on this one.

JamesO


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## johnwill (Sep 26, 2002)

Connecting the router is also problematic if you have a USB-Only modem, since the router's all expect an Ethernet connection.

The DMZ is a special configuration for one computer on the network that allows that computer to be directly exposed to the Internet without the NAT layer or other protection. This is normally used by folks that have servers or game players that can't get a normal port forwarding scheme to function.

For the VoIP adapter that I have, I can put my router in the DMZ of the VoIP adapter, and then pretend the VoIP isn't there as far as configuring the router.

Once again, the make/model of all the network stuff REALLY helps us understand the issues.


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

JamesO said:


> John's thought process was quicker than mine, so some of my comments may be redundant.
> 
> You do not have satellite for Internet access based upon the fact you have a Westell DSL modem.
> 
> ...



I didn't mean I had satellite internet. I just meant that I had DirecTV, meaning I didn't have access to cable to get a cable DSL. I kinda understand everything that y'all are saying. I'm just not sure what other network information you guys need. My DSL modem does have an Ethernet connection. I had to use that to connect it to the computer. Maybe I have my cords and plugs crossed up. I'm going to recheck tonight. I really do appreciate everything the both of you are doing!


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## johnwill (Sep 26, 2002)

You connect the Ethernet cable to the VoIP box, then the VoIP box to the router's computer. Note that the VoIP box should have two Ethernet connections...


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

Here's how my connections are: I have a blue USB cable going from my Westell modem into a USB plug on my computer. I have a yellow cable going from the Ethernet port on the modem into the WAN port on the VOIP box. There is a phone line going from the modem into the DSL filter hooked into the phone jack. From the VOIP box, there is a blue cord coming from the Ethernet plug going into the Ethernet port on the computer. There is a phone line from the VOIP box to the phone. Those are the only two components that I have. The VOIP box is a D-link DVG-1120M. The modem is Model C90-610014-06.


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## johnwill (Sep 26, 2002)

Well, you have one line too many here! You have the USB and the Ethernet connected to your computer, which is bound to cause some confusion! I stuck the extra word _router's_ in the previous message, ignore that. You don't need the USB side of things at all, and that's quite possibly a real issue. To recap:

Modem Ethernet to input of VoIP box
Output of VoIP box to the computer.
Remove the USB.


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## Terrister (Apr 18, 2005)

Like John I am using Vonage. You can choose how much bandwith you use for VOIP by going to the Vonage webpage and using an option called "bandwith saver". You should have an option like this on the configuration web page for you VOIP. 

If AT&T does not have a web page option for this, you may have to contact them by phone. If they do not have this option at all, you may need to consider another provider. Vonage is great. If you must change, I would look into it.


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

I looked on my AT&T CallVantage page and my Westell page. I didn't find anything referring to bandwith saver. I disconnected the USB line. I did find this info:

Transceiver Revision: 3.0.9.0 
Vendor ID Code: 4 
Line Mode: T1.413 Mode 
Data Path: Fast 
Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path 
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 768 128 
Margin (dB) 31.0 31.0 
Line Attenuation (dB) 31.5 11.0 
Transmit Power (dBm) 17.6 10.6 

I hope this helps. Thanks


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## Terrister (Apr 18, 2005)

At this point I think I would call AT&T and tell them they need to make it work. Do you have any more options for high speed internet in your area? I have never seen dsl/voip combo before. Sounds like you need more bandwith to do all you wish to do.


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## JamesO (Mar 30, 2005)

temejo1

You have a good solid DSL signal level at your place. 31 dB noise margins are GOOD!!

Keep this info for future comparision if problems come up. 

The fast path reference is also something useful as well.

JamesO


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## johnwill (Sep 26, 2002)

Your upstream speeds are somewhat marginal for VoIP, since the full bandwidth Vonage service uses 90kb/sec, I assume that AT&T would be similar. As mentioned, you can probably configure the voice quality on the configuration website and reduce the required bandwidth.


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

Thanks for all of everyone's help!


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## lordcanyon (May 9, 2005)

i sugest you use a free voice over ip


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## johnwill (Sep 26, 2002)

And you know of a free VoIP that connects to my standard phones? How about any free VoIP that allows me to call regular telephone numbers? Please, how about a URL, I'm all ears.


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

Hey, if you know of a free VOIP, I'm all ears too. Actually, I just converted from a DSL modem to a cable modem. Now, my voice quality is distorted. I went through and rebooted the system. I called AT&T to get them to reset my levels. It's still a little distorted, but it's better. Any suggestions?


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## JamesO (Mar 30, 2005)

VOIP traffic is compressed and packetized, so it will sound different.

If your VOIP sounds choppy, this is a different story.

Please explain how your network is currently configured and the equipment you have. If you know what the VOIP settings are, please post.

Who is your cable provider and where are you located?

Do you know what you cable speeds are for upload and download?

Try a bandwidth test and post the info back here:

http://www.dslreports.com/stest

Then do the following:

Start, Run, type "cmd" then press enter.
In the black box type "ipconfig /all > c:\ipconfig.txt"

Go to my computer, click on the C drive, open c:\ipconfig.txt and then copy this info for the machine and post it back here.

Start, Run, type "cmd" then press enter.
In the black box type "ping www.yahoo.com > c:\ping.txt"

Go to my computer, click on the C drive, open c:\ping.txt and then copy this info for the machine and post it back here.

Start, Run, type "cmd" then press enter.
In the black box type ping "tracert www.yahoo.com > c:\tracert.txt"

Go to my computer, click on the C drive, open c:\tracert.txt and then copy this info for the machine and post it back here for review and comment.

JamesO


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

Here's the info you requested:


Windows IP Configuration 
Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : oemcomputer 
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : 
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown 
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No 
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No 
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : netcommander.com 
Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection: 
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : netcommander.com 
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8139/810x Family Fast Ethernet NIC 
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-40-F4-AF-E4-4C 
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes 
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes 
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.38 
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0 
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1 
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1 
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 63.97.221.64 
63.97.219.65 
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, May 09, 2005 2:53:59 PM 
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, January 18, 2038 10:14:07 PM 

Pinging www.yahoo.akadns.net [68.142.226.56] with 32 bytes of data: 

Reply from 68.142.226.56: bytes=32 time=171ms TTL=52 
Reply from 68.142.226.56: bytes=32 time=201ms TTL=52 
Reply from 68.142.226.56: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=52 
Reply from 68.142.226.56: bytes=32 time=113ms TTL=52 

Ping statistics for 68.142.226.56: 
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss), 
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: 
Minimum = 113ms, Maximum = 201ms, Average = 160ms 
Ping request could not find host tracert. Please check the name and try again. 

2005-05-11 10:36:58 EST: 558 / 132
Your download speed : 572103 bps, or 558 kbps.
A 69.8 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 135391 bps, or 132 kbps.

I'm located in Northwest Alabama.


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## JamesO (Mar 30, 2005)

Those ping times are a bit scary for any directly connected Internet service, however, without the tracert, it is hard to see what is really going on. They also vary way too much. Seems like your cable provider is either over subscribing and/or has issues with their network or a small pipe to their Tier 1 provider.

We need a tracert so we can have you ping different addresses in the network so we can find out where the problems are. It is no wonder your VOIP sounds choppy with this type of network response. I would expect your ping times to be in the 15-45 ms range depending on where the Yahoo server is located.

My Yahoo ping times are about 16 ms. This however, is to a mirrored server not far out in the network.

Try pinging your cable companies .com or .net web site and running a tracert to it. Who is your cable provider?

tracert www.xyzcable.com or www.xyzcable.net > c:\tracert2.txt

I would save all your ping times, tracert and speedtest data as this may come in handy when it is time to get the cable company to either fix their network and/or give you a service credit!

What is your cable service advertised rate? Your speedtest is probably a bit colored if the ping times were as high as you posted. Once you get ping times in the 20-50 ms range you should re run the speedtest and I would expect it to be about 30-50% higher??

JamesO


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## temejo1 (Apr 9, 2005)

Here's the tracer info:


Tracing route to www.netcommander.com [24.143.1.90]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.15.1 

2 22 ms 24 ms 24 ms nc-al-hac-65-218-188-1.netcommander.com [65.218.188.1] 

3 223 ms 299 ms 256 ms 607.ATM1-0.GW8.ATL5.ALTER.NET [65.208.86.229] 

4 362 ms 291 ms 199 ms 505.at-5-0-0.XR2.ATL5.ALTER.NET [152.63.83.166] 

5 350 ms 252 ms 169 ms 0.so-1-0-0.XL2.ATL5.ALTER.NET [152.63.85.193] 

6 117 ms 167 ms 121 ms 0.so-3-0-0.CL2.DET5.ALTER.NET [152.63.64.210] 

7 409 ms 321 ms 183 ms POS7-0.GW1.DET5.ALTER.NET [152.63.25.221] 

8 68 ms 107 ms 116 ms seqnetgw.customer.alter.net [157.130.165.106] 

9 208 ms 202 ms 126 ms 24.143.1.90 

Trace complete.

Tracing route to www.netcommander.net [208.254.3.160]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.15.1 

2 21 ms 20 ms 23 ms nc-al-hac-65-218-188-1.netcommander.com [65.218.188.1] 

3 116 ms 114 ms 97 ms 607.ATM1-0.GW8.ATL5.ALTER.NET [65.208.86.229] 

4 128 ms 115 ms 79 ms 505.at-6-1-0.XR1.ATL5.ALTER.NET [152.63.83.170] 

5 154 ms 132 ms 111 ms 0.so-1-0-0.XL1.ATL5.ALTER.NET [152.63.85.189] 

6 72 ms 99 ms 98 ms 0.so-6-0-0.XL1.DCA6.ALTER.NET [152.63.38.70] 

7 194 ms 180 ms 176 ms 0.so-6-0-0.WR1.IAD6.ALTER.NET [152.63.39.113] 

8 105 ms 119 ms 85 ms so-0-0-0.ur1.iad6.web.wcom.net [157.130.59.70] 

9 225 ms 256 ms 203 ms 206.112.64.21 

10 77 ms 151 ms 251 ms uu-3-160.buydomains.com [208.254.3.160] 

Trace complete.


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## JamesO (Mar 30, 2005)

Here's my take on what I see.

Your first hop to nc-al-hac-65-218-188-1.netcommander.com [65.218.188.1] (Netcommander Alabama router) appears to be within reason at 20-24 ms, could be better, my first hop time over cable is 15-17 ms (milli seconds), minor difference, but I would expect yours to be a bit lower.

Now the next hop from nc-al-hac-65-218-188-1.netcommander.com [65.218.188.1] to 607.ATM1-0.GW8.ATL5.ALTER.NET [65.208.86.229] is the problem. It appears this net hop is connected into Atlanta. I am not sure why this hop is upto 300 ms. In your 2 tracert reports, the ping times were as low as 97 ms and as high as 299 ms. For your information, the technical term for this problem is *High Latency*, you will need this word in your vocabulary when you speak with your cable/internet provider.

My guess is your cable provider has too small of a outside connection to their Teir 1 provider, which appears to be Alternet. Probably only a T1 or 1.5 Mbps connection? And/or possibly they are using a router that is not powerful enough to handle the amount of traffic they are carrying?

Start, Run, type "cmd" then press enter.
In the black box type "ping 65.208.86.229 -t > c:\ping-t.txt" 

Keep the black box open for about 2 minutes, then close it.

Go to my computer, click on the C drive, open c:\ping-t.txt and then copy *only the last few lines of the ping statistics* and post it back here.

I think then it is back to the NetCommander cable internet folks help desk to start asking the tough questions. 

My ping times from my house (outside Washington, D.C.) to 65.208.86.229 are 32 ms. The time between the last router in Washington, D.C. to 65.208.86.229 is 15 ms. So for your cable/internet company to have ping times from Alabama to Atlanta on a single router hop at 100-300 ms is totally un-necessary and it appears their network is oversubscribed and/or under built. You will never have good VOIP quality, quick browsing or speedy downloads from anywhere when the 2nd network hop time is so poor. 

Save all your ping and tracert files as I think you will need them. You need to find out how and when Netcommander is going to improve the connection between their headend and their Tier 1 provider. My guess is they are growing and do not really have a good understanding on their network growth and managment, maybe just down right inexpierenced?

If you need to, feel free to copy my complete reply and e-mail it to Netcommander. My 3 specific questions to Netcommander would be: 

What is the data rate of the main pipe between Netcommander and Alternet in Atlanta? 
What are the make and models of the routers on this link?
What is the traffic pattern on this link? 

If I had accurate answer to these questions, the root cause of the problem would be obvious!

I think you will probably need to speak the help desk manager to get any clear answers on this problem?

Good luck and let us know the outcome.

JamesO


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## siliconbauhaus (Jun 8, 2005)

found this thread and it's full of good info so I'd like to throw in an additional question.

I run vonage via my netgear router as it wouldn't work in front of it and all seems to be working fairly well. I do notice however that while downloading from the web the quality of the voice connection is poor and choppy but only to certain phone numbers ( ie both mums ) I also notice that the phone adaptor has a habit of dropping it connection on a fairly regular basis.

Are there any suggestions to these issues. Vonage tech support isn't much use ( if you can actually get to talk to someone)

Here's the set up

linksys cable modem -> netgear router -> motorola voip adaptor( supplied by vonage) + 3 computers 

Aprat from these issues we are pretty happy with the vonage service


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## johnwill (Sep 26, 2002)

To run the VoIP adapter in front of the router, you need to configure the adapter to put the router into the DMZ, then it should work.


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## siliconbauhaus (Jun 8, 2005)

Thanks for replying.

I saw that in one of your previous posts but I'm not sure how to go about doing it. I also read where you changed and moved it to the router side so I'm not sure the best option. Its really wierd that it only seems to affect the 2 numbers.


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## mdavison69 (Aug 3, 2004)

*DMZ question*

I am seriously considering getting vonage for my apartment. my question is this, if you put the vonage phone adapter into the DMZ is it suceptable to hacker attacks and viruses like a computer would be, could a person get into my phone adapter and start calling other countries?


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## Terrister (Apr 18, 2005)

I run mine behind my netgear with no problems. I did not even have to dmz it. I just plugged it in and it worked. Never had any quality problems with it, but I have a large connection via cable. 

Even if you do not have a router, the vonage box is a full router also. It can protect itself from attacks. I have not heard of any hack attacks yet concerning voip.


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## mdavison69 (Aug 3, 2004)

*voip*

I have a 4 meg down and i think 384kB up do you think that is enough? im still questioning whether or not to get it. do you like yours? is it worth it?


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## johnwill (Sep 26, 2002)

I have Comcast, which is 4000/384, and two lines of VoIP work fine here. FWIW, I have moved my VoIP box in front of my router again, since when I do heavy downloading, it affects the quality of the VoIP if it's after the router.


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## Terrister (Apr 18, 2005)

I think you should get it. Vonage is the only service I have 1st hand experience with. I have been very happy with their service. You have plenty of bandwith.


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## mdavison69 (Aug 3, 2004)

*voip*

Thanks guys i think i will try it, i was just worried, i had read alot about all the problems that people have had withit.


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