# Instant shutdown whilst gaming



## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Help me TSF, this computer is driving me insane.

Ever since I built it in 2013 I've had this consistent issue; whilst gaming, my PC will randomly shutdown as if someone just pulled the power plug out, and it automatically restarts.

This generally only happens when gaming, and its more frequent if the graphics settings are higher, or the game is more demanding in terms of specs.

I thought it was my GPU being too weak, so I bought a Sapphire RX480. It didn't fix the problem.

I thought it was something with windows, so I did a fresh install. It didn't fix the problem.

I thought it was overheating. I bought some Arctic MX2 thermal paste and reapplied it to the CPU. Additionally, I completely dusted it and bought a Cooler Master EVO12 cooler. It didn't fix the problem.

I thought it could be an issue with my PSU. So I swapped my PSU for an identical one to see if mine was faulty. It didn't fix the problem.

My only lead is that when it shuts down in this way, I get an Event 41 Kernel power error in my windows Event Viewer.

What do I do?


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Some additional info:
- None of my hardware is overclocked
- I have ran chkdsk several times and no problems were found


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Specs:https://ibb.co/qBZsWQk


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

Start a game, play for some time, minimize the game, use an app like speccy/speedfan, grab a screenshot and share it with us.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

The longer you play, the hotter the PSU gets. Your spec post didn't show it so what is you wattage and certification?


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

My PSU is a Corsair CX600M: https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Bron...orsair+CX600M&qid=1566417837&s=gateway&sr=8-4

I'll post a screenshot from Sapphire Trixx shortly but even before I added the new thermal paste and aftermarket cooler it only ever reached 70 degrees celsius tops.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

https://ibb.co/19N0sjX 
https://ibb.co/ZBncNpH 

First picture is for reference, before gaming. Second is after 5-10 minutes of playing Tannenberg on Ultra settings. Performance wise everything was fine, I was getting at least 60 FPS constantly.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Unfortunately Corsairs aren't what they used to be. Yours was made by Channel Well not Seasonic (which made most). I'd guess the PSU is the culprit. Bronze Cert is not the best.


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

Can you share a screenshot from speccy or speedfan ? It would be great to see the CPU and HDD core temps as well..

I agree with Corday, Corsair is not as great as it used to be... With Modular, it's good to take a look to see if the cables are connected well, or is it stretched, causing a temporary disconnect..


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Well... I have no idea why, but after just web browsing, Speccy is saying that my motherboard is 112 degrees celsius? Can that possibly be right?

I'll post screenshots in 10 minutes to show the before and after gaming temperatures


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

https://ibb.co/b192HBx
https://ibb.co/6gvXcN0

Again, first is the control, second is after 5 minutes of gaming. I have no words. How can my motherboard possibly be that warm?


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

The Mobo temps are very high, 120 is sort of the upper limit, typically should be <80 imo.
Try using HWinfo and get a screenshot of this as well please, I want to confirm if the temp thrown by speccy is accurate.

When taking a screenshot, scroll down to the Motherboard section and grab it.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

https://ibb.co/YXkPxMD

It seems my mobo temp really is that high. Hwinfo and Speccy agree


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

At this point, I'm not sure if this is from a sensor or dummy values due to the unavailability of the sensor. If I were in your place, I'd use some sort of IR Thermometer to check the temperature around the VRMs and near the chipset, if they're consistent with what we see, then we need to check the Mobo.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

I'll be borrowing an IR thermometer from a local friend of mine in an hour, and I'll take a reading of the VRMs/chipset. I'm hoping that it is a sensor error, because I really don't have the money to replace a motherboard right now


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

Best of luck !! Let us know how it goes..


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

As I expected, my mobo is not actually at 113 degrees celsius. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the tower seems to be reading under 30 degrees. I guess the next logical step is to check the PSU for any weird looking/stretched cables


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Oh, is it a good idea to try memtest? I'm really at my wit's end here so I am willing to try almost anything if it offers the possibility of preventing another event 41


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Actually, this has got me thinking. If the system *believes* that it is overheating due to the incorrect mobo temperature, is that what could be causing the instant shutdowns?


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

I'm going to restate what I did earlier, maybe more than once. I'd zero in on the PSU. If you had another, that's easy to use as a test. If not, many use a multi-meter. Too bad you don't live in the U.S.A. because they're free every so often at Harbor Freight. There is some danger so the better alternative, but more expensive is a Power Supply Tester. Whatever you do, don't keep fretting and make sure your PSU is operating properly.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

I want to believe that you are right, but I am finding it hard to believe that both PSUs I tried are faulty. I'm not sure I have the technical expertise to test both PSUs either...


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

When you swapped did you also check the connection at the MOBO? Is it the correct connector. All about the various PC power supply cables and connectors

The link won't work unless you remove the "s" from https.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

The PSUs were identical and both used 20 pin ATX main power cable. Connection at mobo was fine


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The PSU's were 20 pin not 24?
Were they the same brand/Model?

How about trying Hardware monitor from CPUz I personally I prefer the screen because it shows columns of the Min, Max, and current readings for temps and voltages.
https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html I use the English Zip version (free).

You'll need to use the snipping tool to grab a screenshot of the HWM window before the PC crashes.

Are you using the stock CPU fan that blows down through the CPU and across the VRM's or aftermarket fan?

Have you checked that the motherboard heat sinks are still tight to the chips?


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Correction: They were 24 pin, not 20.

Yes, they were identical models. 

I recently replaced the stock CPU cooler. I am now using this: https://www.amazon.de/Cooler-Master...+master&qid=1566597998&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr3

The fan blows downwards towards the VRMs I believe.

I haven't checked the motherboard heatsinks actually. Tomorrow I'll make a point of doing that, and I'll provide a screenshot of hardware monitor too in the morning.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Did this issue start before or after the heat sink swap?


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

This issue has existed since I first built it in in 2013. The heat sink swap occurred 2-3 weeks ago


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

https://ibb.co/qp6gwLr
https://ibb.co/txX5wMp

As before, first is before gaming as control, second is after 10 minutes gaming on ultra settings


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Are you overclocking?


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Nope. I have no recollection of ever doing anything like that.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Looks like a bug that's never been fixed in the Intel 8 series chipset> https://forum.piriform.com/topic/39866-124-displaying-wrong-motherboard-temp/

I have actually seen that before but until I read your post about building it 2013 didn't put 2 and 2 together.

I believe it's going to be a motherboard issue but unrelated to that temp reading.

That said I do not like the 11.712v reading while in spec (12v +/- 5% or 11.4v to 12.6v) a healthy PSU should do better.

Keep playing with it a bit and see if it drops any lower.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Will do. If it doesn't drop lower, should I just replace the PSU with a completely different model?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

If it does not drop lower I doubt it's a PSU problem.


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

It looks like a motherboard issue to me. I built so many Z87's and other 8 H-B series boards, along with 9 series Intel boards are most of them were fine and didn't have your issue. Could also be bios related with your specific motherboard. But to me it sounds like a bad board (as in bad QA from the factory). As Wrench97 said though your +12v rail is holding a bit too low as well. Replacing the board is the first thing I would do, then add a better power supply too would help. Something like a Seasonic 620w model. I realize good Z87 boards will be hard to come by these days but you can also use an H81 which will also Turbo boost your 4670k just as well (can't OC though). Some Z97's are available too and you get better pricing with those than you do the older Z87 counterpart.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

No help, just impressed to see someone who uses "whilst"


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

SpareChange said:


> It looks like a motherboard issue to me. I built so many Z87's and other 8 H-B series boards, along with 9 series Intel boards are most of them were fine and didn't have your issue. Could also be bios related with your specific motherboard. But to me it sounds like a bad board (as in bad QA from the factory). As Wrench97 said though your +12v rail is holding a bit too low as well. Replacing the board is the first thing I would do, then add a better power supply too would help. Something like a Seasonic 620w model. I realize good Z87 boards will be hard to come by these days but you can also use an H81 which will also Turbo boost your 4670k just as well (can't OC though). Some Z97's are available too and you get better pricing with those than you do the older Z87 counterpart.


I think you may be right that it is a problem with the board itself. Before I get a new one though, I want to completely rule out all other possibilities as I'm not really in a position to replace it as a poor student. Suppose it is a BIOS issue, how would I go about fixing/troubleshooting the problem?


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

I see from your screenshot you are running Z87 bios 1402. Is this your board here?

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z87K/HelpDesk_BIOS/


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

That's the one


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

If you have been dealing with the issue since 2013 I presume (or maybe not?) that you have had all the same parts since then. The issue you describe can be caused by memory, a power supply that's marginal, or has marginal voltage delivery/variance on the rails under load. It can also be caused by an errant standoff in the case where the motherboard would be shorting out because of an extra standoff underneath the mainboard where it does not belong, or a missing standoff that causes the board to sit against metal where it should not etc.

It can also be sue to a bios updated needed, which in most cases is for better functionality of an existing hardware part on the board, or improved compatibility for a new operating system, or newer GPU's, or better power delivery.

My advice would be to start testing your memory with memtest86, each stick separately. I know you have tried 2 PSU's right? well, I would try yet another as well. If you have other ram or can access even 1 stick of DDR3 1333-1600 that's different would try that too. I would also check your build integrity and the standoffs and recheck all of your cables.


Bios 1402 seems to be the last bios released for your motherboard, and it actually addresses stability so I think your issues are with the board itself or possibly your memory. That's my guess. Barring a structural build issue that you simply overlooked when you first built your machine.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Not all the parts are the same. I have replaced the GPU, the CPU cooler, the PSU and the thermal paste over the years.

I have one stick of 8GB DDR5, so I'll make sure to test it with memtest tonight, although I doubt I have any other memory sticks lying around.

You could be right about the standoffs, so I'll make sure to check that again along with the cables.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Now I'm really at a loss. I installed memtest onto a functional, clean USB just fine. I set my boot priority to USB first, then hard drive. I get a boot error and my PC starts up normally. I restart it, and go into the bios to do a boot override. I select my 4gb USB, and again, I get a boot error. I tried the front USB ports (near the power/restart buttons) and rear USB ports where the other peripherals go in but to no avail.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

It's probably the USB stick, if you can try it on another PC.


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

With parts replaced over the years and the same behavior to me it sounds like a hardware board error. Try replacing the motherboard if you can. But for now keep trying to get memtest86 run and as Wrench97 advised try another USB thumb drive.


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## Huggermuggers (Nov 26, 2009)

SpareChange said:


> With parts replaced over the years and the same behavior to me it sounds like a hardware board error. Try replacing the motherboard if you can. But for now keep trying to get memtest86 run and as Wrench97 advised try another USB thumb drive.


You have a bad power supply. Replace it and your problem is over


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## Ztruker (Jul 17, 2005)

He did replace it with an identical PSU and it made no difference.


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## dwight_parker (Jun 8, 2010)

I was also thinking PSU at first, and it still may be but I looked at a YouTube video of BIOS settings for what I think is the same mobo you have and the CPU fan speed was approx 4X faster than reported in your HWINFO screenshot..... food for thought......


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## nalbon (Aug 16, 2012)

I doubt this will help but I had a very similar problem with an old PC of mine. PC shutting down during gaming. My problem turned out to be the CPU wasn't 100% compatible with the motherboard and the processing speed was being throttled, from 3.4 to 3.0Ghz. The throttling must have been causing further issues down the line.
Swapped the CPU with a lower model that could be utilised 100% and the computer worked better.

I'm sure there will be an easy check around to ensure your motherboard is utilising all 3.4ghz of your processor.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

dwight_parker said:


> I was also thinking PSU at first, and it still may be but I looked at a YouTube video of BIOS settings for what I think is the same mobo you have and the CPU fan speed was approx 4X faster than reported in your HWINFO screenshot..... food for thought......


By this I take it you mean my CPU fan is running at only a quarter of the speed it should be running at?


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

nalbon said:


> I doubt this will help but I had a very similar problem with an old PC of mine. PC shutting down during gaming. My problem turned out to be the CPU wasn't 100% compatible with the motherboard and the processing speed was being throttled, from 3.4 to 3.0Ghz. The throttling must have been causing further issues down the line.
> Swapped the CPU with a lower model that could be utilised 100% and the computer worked better.
> 
> I'm sure there will be an easy check around to ensure your motherboard is utilising all 3.4ghz of your processor.


My CPU came with my motherboard actually, if I recall correctly. And to the best of my knowledge it is running at 3.4GHz but I will check again


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## Red Raspberry (Jan 16, 2014)

On my HP laptop with Win 8.1 that I used a USB wifi keyboard with, it would just suddenly show the shutdown screen and turn off. It would restart with no problem and it would not do the sudden shutdown consistently. Turns out it was the keyboard.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Red Raspberry said:


> On my HP laptop with Win 8.1 that I used a USB wifi keyboard with, it would just suddenly show the shutdown screen and turn off. It would restart with no problem and it would not do the sudden shutdown consistently. Turns out it was the keyboard.


My keyboard is just a normal wired one, so I doubt it would be that. Also I'm running Windows 10 atm.

Having let memtest run for the entire night, I got 0 errors after 8 passes. Safe to say it's probably not the memory then.


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## Red Raspberry (Jan 16, 2014)

A.S.C said:


> My keyboard is just a normal wired one, so I doubt it would be that. Also I'm running Windows 10 atm.
> 
> Having let memtest run for the entire night, I got 0 errors after 8 passes. Safe to say it's probably not the memory then.



I got a new laptop with Win 10 and that is how I found out it was the keyboard. I think it was the keyboard mis keying and not the wifi. But don't really know. A new keyboard fixed it.


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## sh10453 (Mar 18, 2010)

A.S.C said:


> Actually, this has got me thinking. If the system *believes* that it is overheating due to the incorrect mobo temperature, is that what could be causing the instant shutdowns?



My first inclination was that it's the power supply, which is quite often the culprit. 

But if the motherboard's temperature reading is faulty, and that it is falsely reporting a dangerously high-temperature reading, then I agree with you that this is most likely the problem.


I'm assuming that before the machine shuts down, your fan speed would be running at its max speed. Is this a correct assumption?


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Red Raspberry said:


> I got a new laptop with Win 10 and that is how I found out it was the keyboard. I think it was the keyboard mis keying and not the wifi. But don't really know. A new keyboard fixed it.


I have actually swapped my keyboard not too long ago but the issue has persisted


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

sh10453 said:


> My first inclination was that it's the power supply, which is quite often the culprit.
> 
> But if the motherboard's temperature reading is faulty, and that it is falsely reporting a dangerously high-temperature reading, then I agree with you that this is most likely the problem.
> 
> ...


To be honest I'm not sure. I have my GPU fans calibrated to operate at 100% capacity when they reach a temp of 70 degrees and above, but I'm not sure about the tower/PSU/CPU fans. Sometimes it will crash when playing a relatively undemanding game, performance wise (e.g. Kerbal Space Program) in which case the fans won't be very active.


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## sh10453 (Mar 18, 2010)

Huggermuggers said:


> You have a bad power supply. Replace it and your problem is over



How can you make such a flat statement???


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## Yitzak (Nov 13, 2009)

Have you been installing the last drivers for your motherboard ??

Old/Wrong drivers can/will cause the eletronics to be "used in a wrong way", and NO eletronic handle to be to warm.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Yitzak said:


> Have you been installing the last drivers for your motherboard ??
> 
> Old/Wrong drivers can/will cause the eletronics to be "used in a wrong way", and NO eletronic handle to be to warm.


An earlier post in this thread showed that I do actually have the most up-to-date BIOS version for my motherboard, I believe


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Drivers and Bios are two different things.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Wrench97 said:


> Drivers and Bios are two different things.


Yeah, you're right. Long day, lol. I've downloaded the latest drivers for my model motherboard from the Asus website and I'll see if it changes anything.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Uh... this is weird. 
So I tried installing the graphics drivers for my motherboard from here: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z87K/HelpDesk_Download/
And when I run setup.exe, I get told that my system doesn't meet the minimum requirements so I can't install the drivers. ***?

The readme.txt wasn't of much use either


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Do you have a video card installed?
Is so the integrated graphs will be disabled.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Wrench97 said:


> Do you have a video card installed?
> Is so the integrated graphs will be disabled.


I do have one installed, didn't know that it disabled integrated graphics. I would've thought that it would take a backseats role rather than be disabled completely.

Which drivers should I try updating then? Chipset? SATA? Utilities? I don't really know much about this sort of thing, admittedly.


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## Yitzak (Nov 13, 2009)

A.S.C said:


> Which drivers should I try updating then? Chipset? SATA? Utilities? I don't really know much about this sort of thing, admittedly.


All of them: Chipset, USB, Sound, Network, Mouse, etc. 

(And dont use the drivers that comes with the mainboard, as on a CD, go to the "motherboard manufacturer" web site and download them from there)


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Just do the chipset drivers, utilities cause more problems then they solve and sata driver updates can have unwanted results. Even so I don't see drivers causing a shut issue without a BSOD.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Wrench97 said:


> Just do the chipset drivers, utilities cause more problems then they solve and sata driver updates can have unwanted results. Even so I don't see drivers causing a shut issue without a BSOD.


Bit late for that. Chipset, utilities, SATA, LAN, and audio are all updated. I'll see if it makes any difference.


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## sh10453 (Mar 18, 2010)

Check your BIOS version as well and see if there are new versions/updates.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Update: new drivers haven't fixed the issue.

Just checked and my BIOS version is up to date. Still getting Error event ID 41 in my event viewer.

Should I try checking for dump files or anything like that?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Event 41 simply means the system shut down without being commanded to(like when the power goes off).
A BSOD would be a commanded shut down.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Wrench97 said:


> Event 41 simply means the system shut down without being commanded to(like when the power goes off).
> A BSOD would be a commanded shut down.


Then I really have no idea what to do but replace the mobo and PSU and pray that the problem dies with the old parts


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## Yitzak (Nov 13, 2009)

A.S.C said:


> Then I really have no idea what to do but replace the mobo and PSU and pray that the problem dies with the old parts


I would try one more thing before trashing the old "mobo", and that is to remove the CPU Cooler, wipe of all the cooling paste, then add new cooling paste, and then reinstall the CPU Cooler. Also make sure that all dust is removed from the Cooling ribs on the CPU Cooler.

It is really a overheat problem that causes the pc to shutdown, perhaps a bad CPU cooling due to this cooling paste. 

A CPU in a PC should not exceed 55 degrees celcius, it will ruin the CPU, and the same with the rest of the components on a Motherboard. 
Some Motherboards (perhaps the most of them) will have a shutdown if the CPU, or other components, exceeds a certain temperature. 

Lets hope that the Motherboard/CPU havent been ruined due to overheat problems. 

Please also have covers, and or lid, removed when testing the pc, to see if the chassis is too confined, and is unable to let the heat escape out. 

BTW: 
(Wrong drivers for the Motherboard can also cause the components to be too warm, and eventually fail over time, and make utilities be unable to measure the correct temperature)


Regards


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

The cooling paste is good quality (Arctic MX2) and was applied fresh literally 3 or so weeks ago when I removed the old paste with a non-fibrous cloth and some pure isopropyl alcohol. The CPU cooler is also brand new and hasn't even acquired any dust on/in it yet.

Previously I had kept my side panel open to allow for better ventilation but I have never tried gaming with the side panel completely off, so I'll give that a shot.


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## Yitzak (Nov 13, 2009)

A.S.C said:


> Previously I had kept my side panel open to allow for better ventilation but I have never tried gaming with the side panel completely off, so I'll give that a shot.



So how did it go ???


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Sorry I've been away, busy with other stuff in life.

Haven't been gaming intensely recently but so far no issues. Maybe it is overheating...


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

Update: it hasn't fixed the problem


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

There is no "maybe". It's either overheating or it's not. Is it?


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

SpareChange said:


> There is no "maybe". It's either overheating or it's not. Is it?


I don't know man. It shouldn't be, considering that:
-almost all temperature readings are within tolerable limits before shutdown
-fresh, good quality thermal paste was properly applied very recently
-a HUGE CPU cooler was installed recently
-the case is open to allow maximum through-flow of cool air
-it was dusted completely recently


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Use Hardware monitor from CPUz to check the temps> https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html Use the Zip file.

Use the snipping tool to post a screen shot of the results after gaming for a bit.


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## A.S.C (Aug 21, 2019)

https://ibb.co/ph2m0HN

Again this is what my hwmonitor looked like after 10 min of tannenberg on all ultra settings.

Perhaps something of note is the fact that I was getting 120 FPS for the first minute perfectly smoothly before eventually becoming 60FPS with many drops down to 30 or so and occasional freezes


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The GPU is a tad warm while everything else looks pretty cool.
The 12v rail while in spec is dropping more then I would like to see.

What brand and model PSU are you running?


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

He's not on right now but his PSU is a Corsair CX600M.


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

Severe dip in FPS cut in half is usually power related.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

The problem with blaming the Psu is the system also did this since new in 2013. It's true the Psu is not good quality and today it is an old psu that wasn't great quality that should be replaced because of its age but that should be replaced in 2019 before it starts to "hurt" more components. Seasonic are among the best and a 550 or 620 is more than enough for this system already suggested by a poster. As someone mentioned Corsair psus used to be made mostly by Seasonic but never the CX model which was never made by Seasonic as the "Cx" was the inexpensive models made under the pseudonym "builder series". EVGA 550 watt and above are mostly made by Super Flower another good quality Psu also but it does feel like replacing the board will handle the real problem and it will be hard to find a board that is good quality to do that and eBay is probably the only place you will do so.


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