# Computer Is Very Loud



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Hey guys. My computer is off and on loud. I can't say it's when I'm doing anything specific because it's really random. For instance right now I am browsing the internet and downloading something and it was idling very loud, just went silent for about 45 seconds, and just picked up again. 

Last night, just downloading something and running a movie in WMP, so loud I could barely hear the movie. 

I'm really not sure why it's so loud. (just now while typing it picked up to it's loudest volume) 

I'm running an IBM Thinkcentre 8187

-2gb RAM
-radeon 9600 AGP video card
-2.8GHz processor

About a year ago I replaced the mobo, so it's a brand new mobo. I also removed the proprietary hibro PSU since in one of my previous threads here we came to the conclusion that sad excuse for a PSU might be the reason for the mobo failure and I replaced it with a brand new SeaSonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS BRONZE.

Some other info. My computer is pretty much on 24/7 but I was under the impression computers can handle being on 24/7. See, when I'm not on it in my bedroom, I have a server to stream all my computers videos to my ps3 in the living room which requires the computer to be on. And at night, movies when I sleep. So it's 24/7. Would that relate to a problem?... I could set it to standby mode, but standby interrupts my ability to read video files from my Tversity server into my living room. 

Also, if you look at the IBM Thinkcentre 8187 case, it really isn't vented anywhere but a few slits in the right side. I don't have a tool to slice metal but I can certainly drill holes. Should I maybe print out a vent template from google and drill vent holes threw the case above the PSU where the fan is and remove the metal lining on the inside of the case? 

Those where just a few of my thoughts as to why it might be so darn loud... Hope I posted this in the right section. I did PSU section since I'm assuming that's where the noise is from. The fan inside the PSU. I could be wrong though.

I just wanted to give everyone a better idea of the PSU ventilation, or lack there of. 

In this diagram I've circled the only spot where ventilation slits exist in the casing in orange. I've circled where my Sea Sonic PSU is installed and where the top of the unit is with it's fan in red. Only other ventilation besides what I've circled in orange is obviously the back end of the case where it has slits in the steel. I mean I could be totally off base but doesn't this PSU probably need much more ventilation than just the back end slits? Also it seems to me the inside metal lining would keep heat IN rather than vent it out.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Small desktop cases are not good for dissipating heat. They are made from metal and plastic to keep noise to a minimum and that does lend to keeping heat trapped inside the case. 
Is the CPU fan causing the up and down noise? Is the CPU fan & heatsink free of dust buildup?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I don't know which fan it is that is causing the loud noise. Do you suggest I start it up w/o the case and wait for the sound to see where it's coming from? 

No dust buildup, as I just installed some new RAM and checked everything when I was under there.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Is there just the CPU fan and one case fan?
If so, disconnect the case fan and see if the CPU fan is the source. If it is, the CPU is most likely overheating.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

First off I’m sorry it took me so long to respond to this thread. I appreciate your prompt response and aid. It’s been a rough week with Christmas and all.
So I took the top off and before unplugging anything I can quite obviously hear where the loud noise is coming from. I’ve identified it in this picture for you. These are all the moving fans. A. psu B. heatsink (I believe) that is mounted over processor and C. just a ventilation fan I presume? Just from listening I can tell it’s quite obviously the fan in the heat sink that is mounted over the processor. So what’s this mean?... Why? And more importantly how do I fix this? 










I’m assuming that it might be my processor overheating making the fan in the heat sink work extra hard which is 100% just an assumption but would be pretty bad if I’m right, right? 

When I removed the shell it got silent after maybe 30 seconds. Now I’m not going to say this 100% makes it silent 24/7 without shell because it’s only been a few minutes, but so far seems silent… I’ll go ahead and leave the shell off while we trouble shoot this and see if it gets loud again. SCRATCH THAT! Just went to volume 2, then 3, now the loudest one. I'll leave the shell off anyhow just in case it helps at all... 

Thoughts?


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

it looks pretty dusty in there. dust makes things get hot and therfore the fans will get loud as they go faster.

get some compressed air and blow out the dust


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

That sediment you see in the picture is pretty common for a completely enclosed case after 1-2 weeks. I did have a fan not functioning properly (the one on my video card) back in the day and used duster and realized you need to keep it blown out every once in a while. 

That being said I know that minor sediment has nothing to do with this issue, as it's an on going issue and I've used multiple cans of duster inside this PC in the time I've had this issue. (usually when I'm a. bored or b. installing something new inside or c. simply moving the PC) I'm just finally getting around to saying "damn I'm sick of this loudness, let's resolve it." 

I originally thought it was my lack of power for the PSU having a proprietary Hypro 200W psu but I certainly am not lacking in power via psu anymore (mine was freshly installed within the last 1-2 years and was recommended on this site in a previous thread off the psu list) so I'm not sure what the issue is anymore...


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## Laxer (Dec 28, 2010)

I can just look at the PSU and tell you it is probably not the problem.

Seasonic units are high quality.. very good choice for an upgrade.

I think it is probably the fans.... (outside the PSU)

Sit in BIOS for a little bit and see if it gets loud....

Try adjusting fan settings to max out each fan indiviually(something like disable power saving)

What temp is your GPU and CPU sitting at?

That case lacks are flow they may be heating up making the fans work harder... (fan bearings may be going bad)
If it was me I would go buy some thermal paste and a compressed air can and give it some TLC... (I love cleaning my computer)

10 minutes of cleaning may solve the hours of headache :banghead:

If not at least its clean and easier to diagnose :grin:


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

Something else to look at: Try and clear the area near the intake for the CPU cooler. Use tie wraps (or even bits of string) to keep the cables back and out of the way. Any unused power supply cables may be bundled together stuffed into other empty spaces.


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## dbelleman (Dec 23, 2011)

I have to agree on getting those cables away from the CPU fan. Given the lack of space for air flow, that cluster of cables there is a big air flow restriction.
Is it a grinding or whining sound coming from the fan? Chances are the bearing in the fan has worn out and the fan will need to be replaced.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

I never let any sediment build up at all on my rigs.

Although I agree tidying up the cables may help a bit.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Laxer said:


> I can just look at the PSU and tell you it is probably not the problem.
> 
> Seasonic units are high quality.. very good choice for an upgrade.
> 
> ...


Thanks on the PSU. It was selected from a pre constructed list made by the PSU guys on here. I’ll try the bios thing when I get a spare moment. How do I adjust fan settings to max out each fan individually? I don’t have power saving settings on. 
How do I check the GPU and CPU temp?... 
Duster, sure, what exactly would the thermal paste be for? (I might even have some starz thermal paste laying around…) 


gcavan said:


> Something else to look at: Try and clear the area near the intake for the CPU cooler. Use tie wraps (or even bits of string) to keep the cables back and out of the way. Any unused power supply cables may be bundled together stuffed into other empty spaces.


I’ll take care of it tomorrow if I get the time between all the Christmas stuff, and if not the day after. There really are so many of those darn things extra that are connected to the PSU. It came like that. I tried getting them under the cd rom/hdd mounting spot but there are so many. I’ll try better. 


dbelleman said:


> I have to agree on getting those cables away from the CPU fan. Given the lack of space for air flow, that cluster of cables there is a big air flow restriction.
> Is it a grinding or whining sound coming from the fan? Chances are the bearing in the fan has worn out and the fan will need to be replaced.


I’ll take care of the cords from the PSU. Though I feel I should mention before I upgraded my PSU and replaced my mobo, none of those cords were there since the hibro was a small proprietary psu w/ no extra cords, and it still did the extremely loud sound. I thought after the psu upgrade it would be solved but no so luck… 


greenbrucelee said:


> I never let any sediment build up at all on my rigs.
> 
> Although I agree tidying up the cables may help a bit.


I’ll work on the cables for sure.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

*CPU Heatsink Fan Extremely Loud*

I've been having this issue with my PC for a long time and even discussed it on the threads here a couple times with no resolve. 

Anyhow, I have a bit of extra cash and want to figure this out and try to resolve the issue. The fan that is mounted vertically on the back of the heatsink on my CPU is extremely loud when doing things like, multiple task, converting a file, burning a cd/dvd, running a video file, etc. WHen doing nothing it can be almost silent. 

The PC is an IBM Thinkcentre 8187. Overview (United States and Canada) - ThinkCentre 8187

2.0gb RAM. Windows 7 32 bit. I'm running a radeon 9600 graphics card that I realize is quite old. I don't see how that could have anything to do with the heatsink fan running heavier, but I have noticed the fan on the graphics card no longer works. I keep the PC running without a case/shell. No dust buildup, and should have plenty of ventilation since I run it open. 

I previously upgraded the PSU to a SeaSonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS BRONZE as recommended on here on a previous thread so that shouldn't be the issue.

So I guess I'm wondering, should I just simply buy a replacement fan for the heatsink over the CPU? Like an identical lil' plastic fan with the four mounting screws? Or is there something better? Will that even solve the problem? Also I'm assuming I'd have to remove the heatsink from the CPU to do this since the fan is mounted vertically on the back, which means I would have to resit the heatsink and put new thermal paste on it right? I'm over the obnoxious noise and rdy to start purchasing parts to resolve the problem. 

P.S. On a side note my brother has the exact same PC. We both got them from an old business that closed down a long time ago. Well he has barely upgraded his compared to what I've done to mine and his is dead silent 100% of the time. He still has an on board video card, and a crummy hibro 200 watt proprietary psu. So obviously I did something wrong here to cause this noise?.... I dunno. Just ready to take care of it.

Also this is the previous thread from a while back that I posted trying to trouble shoot this issue. http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f210/solved-computer-is-very-loud-618433.html#post3560183


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## bgaudy (Sep 4, 2012)

*Re: CPU Heatsink Fan Extremely Loud*

So is your processor a P4 then or what? 

Also, the sound you are describing... is it more of a fan revving up or vibrational chattering? If the former then you could have a worn down fan, and should be replaced as you described (something like this Amazon.com: Intel Copper Core Socket 478 Heat Sink and Fan up to 3.40GHz: Computers & Accessories should be good enough for general computing), but if it is a chattering sound then check for loose screws, particularly on the motherboard where the heatsink is mounted, and the motherboard mounts themselves.. If you could provide more information regarding the sound (ie. what kind of sound, where does it sound like its coming from etc.) you will get a more accurate solution, but generally with cpu fans its either worn bearing or loose connection as described above.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay, it's a fan revving up. Nothing chattering or loose. I mean sometimes it gets as loud as a vacuum. Best thing I could describe it to is the sound an overheating Xbox 360 or PS3 makes. The fan goes like into overdrive mode and works its butt off. 

That make sense at all? 

I've tested the other fans. It's most definitely not the PSU, and I manually stopped the lil' plastic fan mounted on the back of the computer shell itself and still hear the noise. (I'm sure that's a no no but I simply stopped it for less than 5 seconds to confirm if it was the noise) I can definitely tell it's coming directly from that fan that is mounted on the heatsink over the cpu. 

So I'm looking at that link right now and if that will solve my problem I'd order it right now. However I want to cover my basis first. So that being said, I BELIEVE this fan is 60mm but how do I 100% confirm that? Does this even matter if I'm replacing the heatsink too?... I've never messed w/ this kind of replacement before so I'm in the dark here. 

Also, that looks like it also comes with a whole new heatsink. Am I simply able to change the whole heatsink/fan combo out like that with no problems? If that's the case I wasn't aware I could so simply just swap out that whole large square unit... And will I need to have some solution or compound to clean off the CPU and thermal paste to reapply? 

Just to give you an idea of what I was considering, I was just looking at maybe doing something like this: Newegg.com - Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ALONG with the new cooling fan. My thought behind this is I know running the PC open case can also contribute a bit to the noise (not nearly as loud as what I'm hearing but I'm sure you get what I mean) and figured not only would that help some being able to run w/ a case, but a nice vented one, but I also see all the options for additional fans I could purchase. 

So, if we can confirm that fan and heatsink you just linked me to will 100% be interchangeable in my model I'll definitely snag that right away and we'll see where that takes us. Also, I need to know if I need to order any additional items such as compound to clean CPU, or thermal paste? 

ANd lastly, I love the price I see on that device you linked, but think we could find an equivalent on newegg? I have no problems ordering from amazon, but if I do go ahead and go with a case upgrade and a couple fans it would be nice to be able to order all from one vendor instead of multiple vendors.


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## A1tecice (Jun 1, 2010)

As long as your motherboard socket and the new aftermarket cooler is for the same socket, it will fit with no problems... No need to worry about fan sizes.

Your socket is (478 MPGA socket)


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## bgaudy (Sep 4, 2012)

Most of the time those come with thermal compound pre-applied.. And i find it easier to install the fan/heatsink combo, since they are designed to work together and include all hardware.

you would likely need to scrape off the existing thermal compound from the CPU and possibly swab some 90%+ ISO alcohol (can find in drug-stores or electronics stores).. the alcohol isn't 100% necessary, but if there is a lot of excess compound on the core, then it might help with heat to do this.


EDIT: And since you're sure the sound is coming from that fan, unless you're completely in love with the way you have it setup, it couldn't hurt to get a brand new set.. definitely extend the life of your processor and fan.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

A1tecice said:


> As long as your motherboard socket and the new aftermarket cooler is for the same socket, it will fit with no problems... No need to worry about fan sizes.
> 
> Your socket is (478 MPGA socket)


So that linked one says 478 so it shouldn't be a problem then. 



bgaudy said:


> Most of the time those come with thermal compound pre-applied.. And i find it easier to install the fan/heatsink combo, since they are designed to work together and include all hardware.
> 
> you would likely need to scrape off the existing thermal compound from the CPU and possibly swab some 90%+ ISO alcohol (can find in drug-stores or electronics stores).. the alcohol isn't 100% necessary, but if there is a lot of excess compound on the core, then it might help with heat to do this.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I just wasn't aware the whole heat sink was interchangeable like that. Seems like it would be a lot easier. So I need to see if it does indeed come with thermal compound and if not just get some. Arctic silver polysynthetic silver be acceptable? So for the heat sink/fan combo swap I simply need a cotton swab and rubbing alcohol to remove access compound from the CPU, reapply to the cpu, and mount the combo I purchase right over it. If the heat sink I purchase doesn't have any should I need to reapply to that too or do you simply apply it to the CPU? 

Also what are your thoughts on the case I linked? Think that would be a worthy investment in the long run for what I'm trying to accomplish? I see it has an additional slot for the option of three MORE 120mm fans and seeing as they are only 8-9$ new I'd purchase those with it as well. 

And also wanted to get some input on my improperly working graphics card. It seems to be working fine as far as it's running and I don't have any graphical errors while doing common PC stuff, but the cooling fan on it is 100% dead. I know it would be more advisable to just buy a new, better card, but I'm trying to extend the life of this guy so would this be a worthy investment? Heatsink Fan 4 ATI Radeon 9500 9600 9700 9800 Pro 215 | eBay I've never had to change something like that before. I see it appears to be spring mounted on the card. Does this cover a graphics card processor that would also need new thermal paste?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

After a bit of research today I've come up with a game plan. 

I believe I'm going to purchase this for the CPU. Newegg.com - Rosewill RCX-Z200 92mm Ball CPU Cooler I'm not familiar with all the specs shown on these, but this one has one of the lowest numbers for the noise level and fits the 478 socket so it should fit fine right? I did notice a1tecice said MPGA, and in this products specs it says "PGA or Prescott 3.2 / Socket 478 format." That lingo's beyond me. Will I be good with this or no? 

I already purchased the ATI fan/heatsink combo for my ATI saphire radeon 9600 card since the current fan isn't spinning and I'm sure that is effecting performance. Also my current fan that is mounted on there doesn't even have a heatsink like this new one I just purchased. That will likely get here last since it's from overseas. 

I'm purchasing some Arctic Silver thermal compound for the CPU for when I replace that heatsink/fan combo, and I'll use the same compound for replacing the heatsink/fan combo on the graphics card. 2 pack of compressed air to clean out the PC real good when I'm in there. 

Lastly, I believe I'm going to purchase that case I linked previously, and 3 additional 120mm fans to install in the open optional slots it provides. I DO however want to make sure this case will mount my mobo, psu, and all that. I previously replaced my motherboard and sent the old one to a fellow TSF member and I believe he confirmed it fit standard ATX. So this case would be considered "standard ATX" and I shouldn't have problems mounting everything in it correct?

Hopefully this game plan will alleviate the loud as heck noise from the CPU fan, and provide my hardware with optimal cooling from here on out.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

That heatsink/fan will work with a 478 CPU.
The Antec 300 is an excellent quality case with good airflow. If you want to add a fan in front, that would be plenty. 
I use a 300 in my shop PC and only use the rear fan.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

So micro PGA and PGA, doesn't make a difference? Because I'm just looking at the heatsink/fan combo and I can't figure how it mounts?.... My current proprietary one has a screw on each end connected to the mobo (I believe) and little brackets that loosen with the screws. The brackets come over the side and then you tighten the screw from directly above. 

I mean does it come with a special mounting thing or something?... I'm just not seeing how it installs and couldn't find any examples online. Since we're sure everything will be capable though, I'll go ahead and order it all when I get home from work today.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

I doubt you can use that cooler then. The one you selected requires the Intel type bracket to attach to.
You would need one that comes with a back plate.
Example: Newegg.com - ZALMAN CNPS7000B-Cu LED 92mm 2 Ball Cooling Fan


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay first it would work, now it won't. I don't understand the mechanics of this. I mean if my motherboard has socket 478 you'd think it would fit anything that says socket 478. You said it requires the intel brackets but do I not have an INTEL CPU???... What a pain this is... 

So here is exactly what my current heatsink/fan looks like. It has these two long brackets on each side. Screw in the center of the bracket. When tightened it holds the heatsink/fan down. When you loosen the screws it allows the brackets to move to the side to remove the heatsink/fan. For all I know you can completely unscrew the screws and remove them with the brackets. I really don't know. 

So we're sure this one I selected won't work? I still don't even see how the one you linked will mount. Plus it doesn't even come up under narrow search to socket 478 on newegg. It's quite a bit above what I set aside for CPU cooling in this equation but if that's what I have to do, I'll spend the extra 30$. But I need to know for sure before I order all this stuff. There isn't something cheaper available like this? Newegg.com - TR2TT TR2-M12 80mm Ball CPU Cooler It's hard when I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for here since it's not as simple as just looking for socket 478 which is all I thought i had to worry about. I've tried extensively researching replacing CPU coolers on google but it's a really hard subject to find anything on for some reason. 

So I'm going to wait to order until I hear back from you. Last thing I want to do is order the wrong equipment, have to pay shipping back, and be in the same situation. 

The case however is a good to go though I believe. GZ got back to me and confirmed my mobo is a micro atx. However he also mentioned my mobo has the I/O panel connected to the mobo. Is that going to be a problem?... I've never swapped cases before so I don't know all the dynamics.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

While searching the internet for more information I found this picture of my example motherboard without the heatsink/fan connected. I'm pretty sure this shows exactly what I'm talking about. Also sorta helps me understand a bit more too I think. So would I be removing that square plate with the four screws in it from the motherboard?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

The cooler would work on a retail Mobo but not on a OEM Mobo.
A PC shop might have the part that mounts to the Mobo that you are missing, posted below, so you could use the Rosewill.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

There are some aftermarket 478 coolers that attach with screws that "might" work with your OEM retaining plate. Going to a local PC shop would be the best option. You may pay a little more but you can be assured it will work.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I live around nothing. Closest PC store would probably be Petoskey which is like an hour drive for me. :/ 

So... That plastic part would mount on my motherboard in place of where the metal square is? So why can't I just buy that part online?... Like this? Scythe Universal retetion Kit Or any of these three? CPU retention kit 478 | eBay I can buy it if that's what it takes. In the long run if that's what I need to use the rosewell it would keep me saving a lil' money, and the rosewell seems to be rated real good too. Do those screws simply unscrew from the mobo?

How would the cooler that you linked for the higher price mount to my motherboard though?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

If you get the Mobo mount the Rosewill will work for you and you can order it online.
Remove the metal mount and the Intel plastic part should snap into the four holes.
The higher priced cooler has a plate that goes behind the Mobo and the heatsink mounts to it. 
Intel P4 Socket 478 CPU Heatsink Retention Motherboard Bracket Module: Amazon.com: Intel P4 Socket 478 CPU Heatsink Retention Motherboard Bracket Module: Computers & Accessories

P4 Socket 478 Intel CPU Retention Retainer Bracket | eBay


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Oh nice. I see you posted while I was still searching! Thanks for all the help so far. Okay, so now we're in business. I just purchased this one: Amazon.com: Gino Retention Module Cooler Bracket Black for Intel P4-478: Computers & Accessories

So I'm assuming the rosewell clips to the corners that stick up from those mounting device I'm purchasing?

Now as far as this case, it seems like all the cooling and ventilation will help me greatly, but a fellow member GZ did mention to me that my I/O board is connected to my mobo. After some research I see that's the panel that comes out the back with the ports for plugging things in. That shouldn't be a problem at all with this case since they're all designed to have an opening for that right?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay guys. Thanks for all the help. I've been putting off these upgrades for a few years. I'm confident my PC will run pretty darn well once I get this all together. My plan is to get this PC up to peak performance with these upgrades, and next summer I think I'm going to build my own PC from the mobo up. With up to date equipment! Everything I've done working on this rig has been good practice for my first mobo up build. Figure I'll still be able to use my PSU and case and maybe a few other parts from this rig. 

So I purchased the following items. 

Case - Newegg.com - Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Fans - Newegg.com - Rosewill RFA-120-RL 120mm 4 Red LEDs LED Case Fan 3 of these to fill all three extra fan slots in the case

Amazon.com: Gino Retention Module Cooler Bracket Black for Intel P4-478: Computers & Accessories

Heat sink/cooling fan - Newegg.com - Rosewill RCX-Z200 92mm Ball CPU Cooler

Heat sink/cooling fan for graphics card - ATI 55mm Radeon 9500 9600 9700 9800 Pro Cooler Fan New | eBay

Newegg.com - Arctic Silver Arctic Alumina 1.75g Premium Ceramic, Polysynthetic thermal compound AA-1.75G

Newegg.com - Innovera Compressed Gas Duster

Grand total about 123$. Hopefully that'll cover all aspects for thsi rig. :thumb: I'll let you guys know when I get everything in and start the installations.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

While thinking about how sweet these upgrades are going to be I realized I wasn't sure if I was even going to have enough plugins for the three additional 120mm fans I purchased! After a lil' research I believe they plug into the PSU correct? Is there any way I can verify that I'll have enough plugins in the psu to run all three fans? (I'm assuming the extra cords coming out of the PSU are those plugins) If I need to order any sort of adapter I just want to know now so I can order it and get it in when I get everything else. Sorry for triple post but I thought of this too late to edit last one. :facepalm:


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Even if they don't plug into the PSU, you can get an adapter (or they may even ship with one) to plug it into a MOLEX connector.

So far it is looking good, and by getting the new case will definitely open you up for some nice upgrades in the future. 

Aren't you glad you got that PSU now??? You should clean it out really well also before installing it in the new case.

About the case itself... I think it is a great case. I currently run my setup in one. I have the older version without the opening behind the motherboard... That would be really nice for my heatsink... I have to remove the board to remove it... It is a bit of a pain...

There is one shortfalling with the Antec 300... Cable management is a little tedious, but with a little patience (and a little modding if you are up to it) you can get a nice, clean, install.

Here is my rig for example...









One thing I would like to suggest about cooling with the Antec case... Keep a negative pressure airflow... The Antec 300 doesn't like positive setups, although positive pressure can help with dust buildup inside the PC, it will run warmer. I only use one fan in the front of my PC to direct cool air over the HDDs. 

Another shortfall of the 300 is that it has no opening under the PSU to allow it to draw cool air from outside. You can mount the PSU either up or down. I have mine down. There is just enough room between the PSU and the bottom to allow sufficient airflow to keep the PSU cool. Mounting it fan up also works well, but you run the risk of items dropping into the PSU. I flipped mine down when a small screw very nearly fell all the way into the PSU through the cases top fan opening... I saw it drop in and hit the top fan and I didn't think I could move that fast as I grabbed the power cord and pulled it out of the wall!!!!

I think that you are on the right track here with your PC. I am glad to see things are coming together!


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

shewillnotdie said:


> While thinking about how sweet these upgrades are going to be I realized I wasn't sure if I was even going to have enough plugins for the three additional 120mm fans I purchased! After a lil' research I believe they plug into the PSU correct? Is there any way I can verify that I'll have enough plugins in the psu to run all three fans? (I'm assuming the extra cords coming out of the PSU are those plugins) If I need to order any sort of adapter I just want to know now so I can order it and get it in when I get everything else. Sorry for triple post but I thought of this too late to edit last one. :facepalm:


You will have no need for 3 more 120mm fans anyway, The 300 cones with one rear 120mm so add one more to the front and you're good.
I prefer using the PSU for powering case fans to lighten as much load as possible from the Mobo.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

GZ said:


> Even if they don't plug into the PSU, you can get an adapter (or they may even ship with one) to plug it into a MOLEX connector.
> 
> So far it is looking good, and by getting the new case will definitely open you up for some nice upgrades in the future.
> 
> ...


Got it! I'm definitely glad I got that PSU. Another reason is because when I do my own build next summer I think I'm going to go ahead and use this PSU and case since they should still be up to date and that'll save me a lil' cash on the build.  

Unfortunately I can't see your IMG link but I'd like to see your setup! I think I'll almost mount my fan down. As far as the adapter for the 3x 120mm fans, how can I tell if I'm going to need it or not? I don't want to get everything, start taking things apart, and realize I need an adapter I can't pick up locally anywhere. 



Tyree said:


> You will have no need for 3 more 120mm fans anyway, The 300 cones with one rear 120mm so add one more to the front and you're good.
> I prefer using the PSU for powering case fans to lighten as much load as possible from the Mobo.


I believe it ALSO comes with a fan in the top of the case as well. One in top, one in rear. However, I already purchased the additional three for optimal cooling so I'm going to be using them. So how can I check if I have enough plugins in my PSU or if I need to order an adapter? Am I looking for the three prong female ends?... Would I need three separate or do the fan plugs have a way of connecting to themselves or what? Also, I really like those neat red led ones that I got so I think three is going to make it look real sleak and edgy too.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I have to run off to work, but here you go.


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## A1tecice (Jun 1, 2010)

very clean GZ


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Indeed, VERY nice.  

Okay, about the fans. Will I need the female 3 hole connectors from the PSU? If so I see one open one, and the other two are going to disc drives. Technically I guess I could ditch the cd rom drive and just use my dvd rw drive when I reset everything up which would open me up another. 

Do the fans that are already built into the case also require these plugin's from the psu? If so that's like 5! So what kind of adapter and I going to need here? I can purchase it today if I know what I need. 

-Just to recap two 120mm fans come on the case. (assuming those each need one) 
-purchased three additional 120mm fans (that's three more to plug in) 
-I am going to not install the cd r drive that is occupying one so that will leave me two FEMALE 3 prong plugins from my psu. 

What will I need? a 1 to 3 and 1 to 2 to occupy both? Or just a 1 to 5 for one and leave other open? Not sure here. Lil' help please. The three extra fans I purchased say 3 or 4 pin. Not sure about the stock case fans...

Will something like this work? Newegg.com - Rosewill Model RCW-300 8" Power Splitter Multi-Color Cable Except I don't see a triple one which would give me four. I don't even know if i need two slots for the case ones yet cause I'm just not sure how that all hooks up.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay... The fans (as shown by NewEgg) have the 3 pin fan header connectors... They may come with adapters for MOLEX. 

The case comes with one 140mm fan mounted in the top and one 120mm fan mounted in the rear for exhaust. There are 3 more places to put fans. Two in front of the HDD cage and one in the side panel.

My current configuration uses the top fan, rear exhaust and one 120mm fan in front to direct cool air over the HDDs to keep them cool.

Keep in mind that more fans means more airflow, but also means more noise...

The side panel fan opening can be used for exhaust or for intake or exhaust, but if you look at it's position you will notice it is just below the PCIe 16x slot. I noticed cooler temps on my 9800GTX+ when I had a side panel fan installed (on low) pulling cool air into the case... It basically feeds cool air to the GPU. Any smaller GPU wouldn't benefit from that fan being in place. The big GPUs block airflow... In most situations with smaller GPUs (or no GPU) all the side fan does is disrupt airflow and create eddies and hot-spots in the case.

Hope it isn't too confusing... lol.

EDIT:
Unless they changed since I purchased my case a couple years ago, the included fans use MOLEX connectors. You can daisy-chain them and only use one MOLEX connector from your PSU. (the MOLEX connector is the rectangular, 4-pin connector that connect to HDDs and Optical Drives).


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

This might be completely noob but when we're discussing GPU this is the graphics card?.... I believe my card is one of the bigger ones since it's AGP. So I could benefit from the side fan then I take it? Worst case scenario I know newegg has a 30 day money back guarantee. But I would have to weigh the fans potentially being beneficial to my future build to. So maybe worth holding onto if i don't end up using 1 or 2. 

Okay, so I can use the 3 or 4 prong. You are saying I should use the 3 prong (just like the one in my hdd which there is also an extra one of those coming out of the psu I believe) and I can plug fan a into the back of fan b, fan b into the back of c, c into the back of d, and d into the psu adapter. Am I understanding correctly?

I understand more fans = more noise. That is one thing I've already thought about. I've read reviews online with people running all three and saying you can hear it but it's not bad at all. So we'll see. It can't be any worse than this cooling unit over my cpu. I can hear that in the living room when my PC is in my bedroom down the hall.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

shewillnotdie said:


> I believe it ALSO comes with a fan in the top of the case as well. One in top, one in rear. However, I already purchased the additional three for optimal cooling so I'm going to be using them. So how can I check if I have enough plugins in my PSU or if I need to order an adapter? Am I looking for the three prong female ends?... Would I need three separate or do the fan plugs have a way of connecting to themselves or what? Also, I really like those neat red led ones that I got so I think three is going to make it look real sleak and edgy too.


It does come with a 140mm top fan. Side and top mount fans can cause turbulence and disrupt the desired front to rear airflow. You will need to experiment with it connected and disconnected. I remove them before selling the unit to avoid problems.
Just because you have them doesn't require you install them. :smile:
The PSU will have plenty of 4 pin Moles connections but if the fans you ordered are 3 or small 4 pin then you will require adapters to connect them to the PSU.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

shewillnotdie said:


> This might be completely noob but when we're discussing GPU this is the graphics card?.... I believe my card is one of the bigger ones since it's AGP. So I could benefit from the side fan then I take it? Worst case scenario I know newegg has a 30 day money back guarantee. But I would have to weigh the fans potentially being beneficial to my future build to. So maybe worth holding onto if i don't end up using 1 or 2.
> 
> Okay, so I can use the 3 or 4 prong. You are saying I should use the 3 prong (just like the one in my hdd which there is also an extra one of those coming out of the psu I believe) and I can plug fan a into the back of fan b, fan b into the back of c, c into the back of d, and d into the psu adapter. Am I understanding correctly?
> 
> I understand more fans = more noise. That is one thing I've already thought about. I've read reviews online with people running all three and saying you can hear it but it's not bad at all. So we'll see. It can't be any worse than this cooling unit over my cpu. I can hear that in the living room when my PC is in my bedroom down the hall.


Yes. We are talking about the Graphics card. (GPU = Graphics Processing Unit). If you look at the picture I posted, you will see that my Video Card is very long... It goes from the back and nearly touches the HDD cage. Because of it's size and the relatively small size of the case, it interrupts the desired front/bottom to back/top airflow pattern. In this case the side fan (low speed) helped my temperatures. Right now I am using a smaller, half-height Video Card and the side fan had the very effect that Tyree is talking about and my overall temperatures are higher with the fan installed, therefore it is not.

If I were in your position I would start out with the fans that are installed in the case from the factory + one in the front to direct cool air over the HDDs and experiment. Start with the factory fans on low speed and monitor your temps over an hour or so. Then put the rear and top fans on medium speed and monitor your temps again to see if there is any improvement. Then again on high speed. Following the same steps, you can add and remove fans until you find the best temperatures you can achieve.

You will need to use a monitoring software for temps... I believe we already introduced you to Hardware Monitor in an old thread.

Judging from your setup as I remember it and my experience with the Antec 300, I would say your best results will be with one intake fan in the front on low and the rear exhaust fan and the top exhaust fan on medium. This should give you optimal temperature/noise. Your new heatsink should be realatively silent on high speed, judging by the specs on NewEgg.com.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Tyree said:


> The PSU will have plenty of 4 pin Moles connections but if the fans you ordered are 3 or small 4 pin then you will require adapters to connect them to the PSU.


Okay, w-h-a-t? :huh: I'm just not getting the connectors, lol. I'm just not familiar enough with them yet to follow your lingo. here is pics from newegg of what they are supposed to come with. Will I need adapters with them coming with that?

I believe cpu-z is the program that measured the temps right? I remember it honestly being sorta in depth and not too user friendly, for me at least. I thought that program only worked with newer hardware that had the built in temp thing that is able to check temps?...

P.S. I love your Cloud worm avatar.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I didn't see that pic on NewEgg... The MOLEX connector is the big white connector... You should be good to go.

Here is a link to HW monitor...

CPUID - System & hardware benchmark, monitoring, reporting

It displays an output that may be a little tough to read, but if you post a screen-shot I, or another team member can explain what you are looking at if you need.

As for the Avatar... Thanks. I made it myself (from scratch) using pencil and paper, a scanner, MS Paint and GIMP... I was just messing around and it turned out pretty nice. I love Worms 2 Armageddon and FFVII!


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

That pic is sneaky hidden. Once you click on the picture to expand it, it shows MORE pics. :wink:

So let me see if I'm understanding. I see the lil' connector that it comes with that IS NOT attached to the fan. Then the cord on the fan. So does fan end plug into ONE END of that adapter, then I can plug that... nm... I'm still utterly lost as to how all the fans are capable of plugging in... As long as I won't need the adapters I guess I'll figure it out... 

So these fans have a low, medium, and high switch on them? I wasn't aware of that. 

That's a sweet DIY avatar! Skills. I tried to play worms but I couldn't get it to run on my PC! Was a while ago. I have my FFVII on my ps3 from the PSone classic downloads. Got my save b4 emerald weapon, ruby, and seph. Can load either weapon save and decimate them.  I love them all but VII is def my all time favorite. Only have 2 more trophies to snatch on XIII-2.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Yes, the fan will connect to the adapter and the adapter connects to the PSU. The MOLEX ends of the adapter are Male and Female, so you can daisy chain them if need be.

I don't know about the rosewill fans, but the Antec fans should have a speed switch on them.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

GZ said:


> I have to run off to work, but here you go.


Very nice GZ! I like!!! Looks like my case, nice and tidy!


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay I THINK I'm getting it now. Large three prong is ONE end that will connect to PSU, there is a female AND male small connector on the OTHER END so I can just chain every fan. I _think_ I got it but just need to see it in front of me to _get it._ :rofl: 

When I get everything in the mail I will take pics and show everyone the work and we'll go from there and see how many fans need to be going and on what speed and all. I'm just going to keep any extra fan I don't use (if that happens) because I'm sure I can use the fans and case for my future build next summer. :grin: 

Now we play the s/h waiting game.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey AMD_MAN... How ya been?

I don't know if you remember our OP in this thread. I gave him a little help updating his BIOS quite a while ago!

Hey... I came across this pic... It might help you visualize the adapter a little better.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm good GZ and You? The fan will come with a fan header to molex connector. You hook the molex connector to a molex connector from the PSU and they can can only connect one way. Then you plug the fan to the fan header that comes from the molex to fan connector and again they can only connect one way! You'll see it when it's in front of you shewillnotdie.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I think I woke up and got it this morning. Like a light bulb when I woke up. Lol. So there are going to be extra loose MOLEX connectors in the chain from the extra adapters and just one is going to plug into the psu correct? Okay, I think I got it.



GZ said:


> I don't know if you remember our OP in this thread. I gave him a little help updating his BIOS quite a while ago!


YEP! That's when I had to replace my mobo because the old one died, and in the process we upgraded the psu from that crummy 230w hibro because we figured that crummy psu could have been a likely cause of the mobo death. These upgrades have been LONG over due!


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

shewillnotdie said:


> So there are going to be extra loose MOLEX connectors in the chain from the extra adapters and just one is going to plug into the psu correct?


Bingo!


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Oh jeez.... So I got the duster yesterday and gave the mobo and everything a good cleaning. 

I did make sure everything was clean before but not with duster. Upon closer examination of the cpu heat sink/fan combo I see there wasn't any dust on the fan, but BEYOND the fan into the heat sink was heavily plugged with dust! Anyhow, I got it all cleaned out and it's 100x quieter now. WHOOPS! :facepalm: Lesson learned. Just because you have the outside all clean doesn't mean there isn't dust buildup INSIDE beyond regular view. From here on out I'm going to keep a regular supply of duster for routine cleanings. :grin:

However I'm still going to use the new plastic harness and UPGRADE to the new fan/heat sink I have coming. Can't hurt, and it's gotta be much better than the proprietary heat sin/fan combo.  So, all is good so far. My new egg order is coming today, but unfortunately I have to wait on the darn amazon plastic harness setup before I can get everything together. Don't want to get the mobo in the new case only to take it out when the plastic harness needs to be installed. So we're well on our way. Just waiting on the plastic cpu harness.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Question time. 

Connecting the Ports and LEDs: 

I don't think I had anything like this when I replaced my mobo?... I see the part in the instructions for where they plug in but I don't know where half this stuff is. RST connector for 1. and that's the two usb ports?.. Okay got that but is there some sort of diagram I can find for my mobo to show me where RST is?

Guess 2. is my power so the actual power button? Okay. PWR connector on mobo. Again, not sure where that is located. 

Two POWER LED one positive and one negative. What LEDs?... Is this like the light up on the power button?... And again, not sure where Power LED connector is on my mobo. 

And lastly there is an HDD LED. What LEDs are they referring to? My hdds never lit up before?... Is there some sort of lighting on the case where the HDD sit?... Says those connect to the drive activity header on the mobo or RAID card. 

Not sure where any of that is and what a few of them are even for? Any clarification would be appreciated. I'm not doing this all until I get the rest of my stuff (from HK so probably gonna be a while) but I wanna ask all these questions now so when I get the rest of the stuff I'll know everything I need to do to get it all together. 

Also, the case fans do have L M and H. Nice. I'm still not 100% on how they are all going to connect though. I see how the Molex is F and M so that makes sense, but seeing as how the two fans on the case don't have adapters how am I to throw those into the chain w/o adapters for each of those too?

I plugged one of the red fans into my PC just to see how it looked and hear it's noise lvl and it wasn't bad at all. I did notice however when it's sitting flat it's quieter, when I stood it up vertical it was a tad bit louder. Still don't think it'll be too loud at all with all of them running if that's what I end up doing. 

P.S. Damn this is a big case for being a "Mini" tower. :grin:


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay... Can you trace the wires from the motherboard connector back to the front panel?

Those FPanel connectors will be easy once we figure out the header pinout.

Your 300... Did it come with USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 ports in the front?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Whoa, what? Trace which wires from my motherboard back to the front of the old case?... 

There is a bundle of cords. 7 to be exact. Connect to where the power button is on my old case and the green light for power, and all that. Exactly two yellow and two black to the power button itself. 1 black and 1 green to the green light NEXT TO the power button that is lit green. And 1 black and 1 yellow wire connected to the light NEXT TO the lit up green one. However that light isn't lit. These are all bundled and connect to a long thin plugin on the board. I'll include a picture of the plugin where they go. Sorry if it's hard to see. Had to use phone since camera batteries just died. 

So is this were all these individual ones plug into?...

Okay, 2.0 or 3.0 usb?... No idea. They look like regular ol' usb ports to me... According to newegg usb 2.0.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Hmmm... That would have to be it... 

Well, looks like you may need an adapter... I would make you one, but you live all the way down at the bottom of the country!

How are you with silly little things like soldering?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

GZ said:


> Hmmm... That would have to be it...
> 
> Well, looks like you may need an adapter... I would make you one, but you live all the way down at the bottom of the country!
> 
> How are you with silly little things like soldering?


Oh, poop.... :facepalm:

WELL! If you have the gumption to do such a thing that would be totally awesome and I'd obviously pay any shipping cost or parts expense. The answer to your question is I have absolutely zero soldering experience... Way down at the bottom of the country?... Possibly you still think I live in FL? I've moved since last we interacted. I moved to northern Michigan. I think we're only like a 12 hr drive away from MI to NJ. :smile:


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Lol!!!! That is one heck of a move!

Let me see if I can find you a ready made adapter... If not, I will see if I can whip something up from spare parts around here.

What model number is that Thinkcenter???

EDIT:

Also, could you snap a (somewhat clear) picture of the connector and the header disconnected from each other?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Tell me about it... 

If there is a ready made adapter I'm all over it. No idea where I'd even start though cause I don't know what I'm looking for... 

It's a Thinkcentre 8187 (M50 I believe) http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/thinkcentre_pdf/13r9196.pdf

I just realized you said disconnected... Well I can't disconnect the one connected to the case but tomorrow after work I can take a pic of the mobo one disconnected. Till then I took these ones that might be more clear. (didn't realize you said disconnected until I took these pics)


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Cool... I just want to see the spacing of the pins... It is possible that you could use the connectors from the new case... Some proprietary connectors use the standard pin length and spacing while others use smaller pins and bunch them closer together (DELL).

When you have it disconnected, take a look at it and the spacing of the AUDIO or USB headers... If they are the same, there is a good chance you don't need an adapter.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

You just want me to disconnect the part connected to the mobo in this picture and check that out right? Which part exactly is the audio or usb header?... I'll just disconnect it when I get home from work and snap a clear picture. 

I can't picture how all those lil' plugins from the new case could plug into this same port though.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I don't understand how this is so hard to get a clear picture of but hopefully this helps. 

That plugin has a clip that you push down to pull it out. Clips it in when plugged in. 8 little squares that pins go into. Piece on mobo that it plugs into has 8 pins that stick out that go into each little square of the plug that plugs in. 

That help at all?...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

It is hard to tell in the photo, but judging by the size of the SATA cable, the pins look about the correct size to accept the new cases connectors... 

Take one of the LED connectors from the 300 and see if the connector will attach easily to two of the pins in that header.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I'll check and get back. So these individual ones that are with my new case can all plug into this mobo plugin separately to like fill the thing? So I don't understand how I'm supposed to know which one goes to which pin inside the port... I'll test that though and get back to you in a few.

Okay, wow. They do pop in there just fine. So now that I know that, how on earth do I find out which one goes into which pin!? Do I need to separate the bundled wires individually from power, power led, etc, follow them to the adapter, and see which pin they go into? If so wow... 

Also I noticed there are two additional plugins in the case. One for USB and one for... Oh man. I just closed it up and alrdy forget. But it was like hdr or something. Also case from the same location as the usbs, so I'm assuming it's like the mic plugins or w/e that are right next to the usbs. Do I have spots for those on my mobo too?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I will try and do a little research to find the pinout for the USB and F_AUDIO headers... 

In the meantime, the easiest way to figure out which wire is which is to physically trace each wire from terminus to terminus. One set of wires will go to the pwr switch, another to the reset switch, etc.

Another way is to check the wire color at each terminus... But, from the picture it looks like the wires are colored very similarly.

You can also test the pinout... But that is a bit more advanced.

Once we know which wires go where, then we can hook up the new ones.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I couldn't find anything as far as the motherboard layout. Couldn't even find a decent diagram on the user manual. :/ 

The colors do look similar. I could just do as you said and trace the wires from one spot to the next. However I'd still be unsure which is which cause I'm not sure what all of these are. Like for instance what is hdd led? Cause I don't have any led lights on my hard drives as is now?...


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Also on a side note I noticed that cheap seller on Amazon was from HK... I'm an ebay a holic and familiar with other online sellers but not TOO familiar with amazon. Once i found out how to check the seller info I found this out and found out my estimated delivery was like late October. So I went on ebay and purchased another P4 retention kit that eta is like 16th. 4$ so not too big of a deal. 

Yes I'm impatient but damn, late October?! I can't stare at this great equipment and not wanna get it all setup. So, is following the cords from my old case power area to the port on mobo only way to attempt to figure out what's what here?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay... We need to figure out what wires go where...

Let's start by identifying the wires by color.

From the picture, I count eight pins in the MB header. I have made this to assign a number to each pin. The pins are laid out as you see them looking at the motherboard header.









Now that each pin is assigned a header we need to identify the colors of the wires that attach to each pin. Primary colors are the main color of the wire and secondary colors are the "stripes" if there are any. (eg. White/Yellow means a white wire with a yellow stripe). 

I can't make out the colors or orientation of the connector in the picture so I would like you to do that for me.

1-
2-
3-
4-
5-
6-
7-
8-


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

1-yellow
2-black
3-black 
4-yellow
5-black
6-green
7-yellow
8- black


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay... Not very thoughful color scheme, eh?

The black wires are likely commons and paired off with the colored wires...

I would be willing to wager that 1-2 are paired, 3-4 are paired, 5-6 are paired and 7-8 are paired. 

Do you have a continuity tester or multimeter?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Definitely not. Since it seems to be more or less a few dif colors, it's not a very thoughtful setup to easily identify what's what. 

I'm not sure what any of that means. 

That's definitely a big negative on the multimeter or continuity tester. (had to google it just to find out what that was)


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Lol... Do you have a battery, some primary wire a flashlight bulb and some electrical tape???


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Uhm... Yes, no, no, and no. :uhoh:

There has to be a way to figure this out...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Do you I know someone who has a test light?

If you don't you can pick 1 up at Walmart for a couple dollars


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I sure don't. I don't know that many people here since I just moved here in November. But if it's a couple bucks I can definitely pick one up. Just tell me exactly what I'm looking for. a "multimeter?"

Will this guy work? Digital LCD Voltmeter Ohmmeter Ammeter Multimeter Handheld Tester OHM VOLT | eBay S/h says on or before 20th so thats quick so I'll just order that one. It beats driving all the way to Cheboygan to go to Walmart. That'll cost me about 10$ in gas. :/ I'm sorta far away from everything up here.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Hold off. You can figure it out without one. Im in my phone right now. I will get back to you later on.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Alright... The quickest and easiest way to figure this out is to wait until it is time to install the board in the new case.

You have to remove all the components from the old case to install in the new, so access should be relatively straightforward. When you swap the components into the Antec 300...

Remove the front panel of the IBM and leave the wires attached. They will be attached one of two ways... Directly to each switch/LED or to a circuit board that contains the switches and LEDs. 
If they are connected directly to the switches and LEDs it is a simple matter of physically tracing the wire from the component to the connector and marking each wire.
The switches are not polarity dependent, so you can hook them up either way and they will work. They are simple, momentary contact switches. The LEDs, on the other hand, require proper polarity. Usually the colored wire will be the + lead and the black will be the -. That is the way I suggest to connect them at first. If they don't work, then reverse the polarity.

If the wires run to a circuit board, it gets a little tougher, but the same basic rules apply. Simple circuit boards are usually easy to follow traces from terminus to terminus. There will likely be some surface mount capacitors and/or resistors on the board. This is where a circuit tester of some sort would come in handy... But you can, usually figure out the pin-out by trial and error.

The following assumes the motherboard is mounted in the new case and the power supply is properly connected... Also, between each step ensure the board is powered down.

Trial and error method;


Leave all F-Panel headers disconnected.
Using a small flat-head screwdriver, short pins 1 & 2 momentarily.
If the board powers up (fans spin, etc) connect the PWR connector to those pins.
If the board does NOT power up, repeat with pins 3 & 4.
Repeat, if necessary, until you find the pins that power the board.
Mark the power pins on your diagram.
Next, connect the PWR_LED connector to the first set of unused pins.
Power up the board using the power switch.
If the power LED lights up and stays steady, leave it connected and move on to the HDD LED connector.
If the power LED does NOT light up, reverse it's polarity (flip the connector around on the same pins) and try again.
If the power LED still does NOT light up (or lights up momentarily then goes out) try the next set of pins.
Repeat until the PWR_LED lights and stays lit while the board is powered up.
For the HDD_LED, you need to connect the HDD to the board and allow it to boot into your OS.
Follow the same steps outlined for the power LED. What you are looking for is the HDD LED lighting and/or flashing while there is HDD activity (i.e. Windows Boot) Keep in mind that you will have to properly shut down your computer between tries.
Once the HDD LED is properly connected, you are left with the Reset Switch. It is not important to have the reset switch connected, but you should only be left with one set of pins. Some OEM PCs do not come with a reset switch, so it will be important to check to see if yours has one. If it does not, then you will need to ascertain what the last set of pins are for.

Front USB connectors can be left for a later date. Did I ask you if your Antec case came with USB 3.0 or USB 2.0 on the front panel???


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I already ordered the multimeter. Will that make these steps any easier to accomplish? If so how can I use it to my benefit? Also there isn't a circuit board that these wires run to. If I follow them they go directly to back of power button, directly to light next to power button, etc. 

You already asked. 2.0. Do those connect to the mobo somewhere else?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Sorry for the billion questions but I just want to make sure I know everything when I do the big swap. (which will be this week since I ordered a 2nd P4 retention clip and the multimeter and they should be here before Thursday).

While looking at the CPU Cooler it has pre applied "thermal grease." That the same thing as thermal compound? Should I remove this with rubbing alcohol and apply my own arctic silver thermal compound or is it all the same? http://www.rosewill.com/Mgnt/Uploads2/AttachmentForProduct/installation-rcx-z200.pdf

Also, it doesn't relate to the rig I'm doing but I just scored a nice Netgear Wireless G router for 18$ on ebay.  I've used an old belkin for a long time and although it's been very faithful and done it's job, I've been told in the past Belkin Wireless Routers are sorta the bottom of the totem pole. I was told Netgear is one of the best, linksys is right below that, and belkin is bottom. So nice network upgrade too.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

About the thermal compound... Yes, the paste does the same thing, but the Arctic Silver is a higher quality compound. I would use the Arctic Silver since you already have it.

To trace the wires using your new multimeter...


Set the multimeter to continuity.
Touch the test lead to pin 1 and the common lead to pin 2. 
Press the power button. 
If the two leads go to the power switch, then you should get some form of indication. Most multimeters will emit an audible sound. Mark the pins on your diagram.
If you get no indication, repeat with pins 3 & 4 and so on.
Repeat for the reset switch.

The multimeter will be useless for the LEDs. AFAIK, the only way to test an LED is to apply power and watch it light up. You can do this with a battery and some wire.

EDIT:

Sorry about the truncated post... 

The LEDs run on 3.3V. Too much voltage and you will burn out the LED.

I suggest you play the trial-and-error game with the LEDs.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

That's sorta what I was figuring. The Arctic Silver being higher quality. I've read instructions for applying compound before and they said to use like a credit card to evenly distribute the compound over the CPU. however, I've seen a few install videos lately where they just put a tab in the center and when they sit it down in spreads out. Which ones more effective? Do I need to apply it to the cooler AND CPU or just one since they'll connect when I seat the cooler?

As far as the multimeter this is the one I got. Digital LCD Voltmeter Ohmmeter Ammeter Multimeter Handheld Tester OHM VOLT | eBay Just to verify continuity mode/test would be the 200k in the bottom left green section? I'm going off a video I caught for multimeters. 

Okay. If I am able to mark the reset and power then that just leaves me with 4x led. So if I'm understanding correctly I won't have to worry about giving any of the led too much voltage because all 4 should have the same voltage so I'd just do trial and error right? 

And finally as far as the led trial and error I don't understand what leds I'm looking to see turn on with the hdd led. What light is that exactly? I know power led is the power button itself. I'm assuming both power led is the same button?.... So what light is hdd led? And am I correct in assuming each individual power led I'll be looking to make sure the power button comes on right?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I am afraid that I am a bit confused now... 

Does your current computer have two switches and two LEDs?

Continuity on your multimeter will have the attached symbol.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay. Let me clarify this craziness. When I look at the back of the button that turns my PC on it has a lil' white box in a mini "holder." There 3 pins on the top of the lil box and 3 pins on the bottom of the little box. TWO wires are plugged into the bottom and two in the top. Each pair is Y/B. So that attributes to four of the wires. Two Y two B. Now to the right of my power button is a green light. This light stays on when PC is on. This one has 1 B and 1 G wire going directly into the back of the lil light. NOW, there is another light next to this one. This light however doesn't stay green. I think it flashes when the PC does certain things. This light has 1 Y and 1 B going into the back of it. That is all 8 of the wires that end at the plugin that goes into the motherboard. 

Does that all make sense? :huh: Is the second green light that flashes the HDD LED!? If so that light bulb JUST hit me.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay. That simplifies things a little bit.

This is the most likely configuration for the PWR_LED connector.

YLW -
BLK -
BLK -
YLW -
BLK - PWR_LED (-)
GRN - PWR_LED (+)
YLW -
BLK -

Does the power button light up as well?



shewillnotdie said:


> Does that all make sense? :huh: Is the second green light that flashes the HDD LED!? If so that light bulb JUST hit me.


Bingo


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Got it! Does the power button light up... Well, see I don't run the current PC with the case so I use a pencil to push in the button to start it. Lol. So I guess not? Since I technically don't even have a button atm. 

Oh and didn't get any of the stuff today so crossing my fingers for tomorrow.  I think this is going to be a smooth upgrade. I believe I've covered all my questions so far.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay... from your description, I don't think your case has a reset switch. 

Could you get me the part number from the motherboard?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Uhm, I can but it'll have to wait till morning cause lights are currently out here w/ sleeping baby. 

But is it specific for my motherboard or a universal part number? If it's universal here's the exact mobo. 89P7942 | IBM System I/O Board (Motherboard) (Thi | Ambry

I actually had to buy a new one when the old one fried if you remember. You had to send me a cpu to flash bios and then sent it back. But for the life of me I don't remember where i ordered the new mobo from... It was years ago.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I remember!

I will look at that when I get home... See if I can figure anything else out.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

So guess what? Of course the HK retention kit just got here today and my U.S. one is scheduled for tomorrow... I knew it would come as soon as I orders a U.S. one, lol. 

Maybe it's good to hang onto? Heck, I could always return the U.S. one when it comes. ANYHOW! I'm going to be separating the wires and following them to the mobo port and I'll let you know how it goes!


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Good. I forgot to look into the motherboard last night... Sorry about that, have had a bunch on my mind!


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

So I'm pretty darn aggravated right now.... I just spent hours upon hours getting this all changed over. Everything all done. Well I plugged it in and tested it while on the floor and everything started up fine minus a few hiccups on startup which I think was just hardware being recognized. 

Well I clean up my mess, zip tie everything in the case nice and neat, close up the case, put it on the desk and run all the wires up to the desk and plug everything in. Now I turn it on and nothing. Won't send a damn signal to the *&^% monitor... 

Currently plugged in to monitor via DVI port on video card. Removed video card and tried a standard VGA cord to mobo. Still nothing. Won't make any error sounds or nothing. Just runs... So annoyed right now. It worked perfectly fine on the floor before I cleaned everything up. Move it on the desk and now I can't get anything to work... Just sits there running. Nothing on monitor. All fans spin and all. No error sounds and keyboard doesn't have any power like caps light or anything... Mouse has full power.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Step back, take a deep breath and relax for a moment...

When you put the motherboard in the new case, did you check the standoff positions to make sure there were no short circuits?

Also, check to make sure that none of the connections came loose.

Did you figure out the rest of the Front Panel connections?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

GZ said:


> When you put the motherboard in the new case, did you check the standoff positions to make sure there were no short circuits?


I have no idea what that means. Can't figure much out when I google standoff positions either... There isn't any plugin on the board for the audio case plugs or usb but that's hardly my problem atm so I'm ignoring that for now.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

The "studs" the motherboard openings line up with.

I am sure you did a fine job. When things like this happen it is easy to get frustrated. 

We will get it working again, I promise!


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I mean everything seems plugged in fine. It worked on the floor, put it on desk and it doesn't... I don't even know where to begin to check cause I don't understand what would make it not send any signal to the monitor when it did two seconds ago.

I did it just like the instructions said. Put the brass raisers in where the mobo holes were and screwed it down. Left the other brass raisers alone that didn't line up. Did I need to actually remove those ones that didn't line up that were already put into the case?? I think there was one that was alrdy in a hole but didn't line up that I left alone. It didn't say I had to remove those ones in instructions. Did I ruin my mobo by not removing the extra brass raiser and it touching the mobo where it shouldn't have? 

Also, I might have totally imaged it but I thought I smelled something funny when I started it up on the desk but I don't know if that was just me being paranoid cause then I smelled again and there was nothing.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

If there was one that didn't line up and it is underneath the motherboard, it will need to be removed.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Use one standoff, no more - no less, for each Mobo mounting hole.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

They already had a few brass stand offs already in the case. One that I recall didn't line up with the mobo so I left it be. So I likely ruined my mobo by leaving that one lil' brass standoff in? Awesome...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Don't worry yet. Remove the board and inspect the underside. Look for any burn marks.

Small shorts will not alwasy burn out components, but it is possible.

Remove the rogue stand-off, double check the mounting holes and reinstall the board.

Attempt a boot with the onboard video only.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Possibly but you won't know for certain until it's installed properly.
Hopefully, no damage was done.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I just removed the rogue stand off. Wow is it a pain removing the mobo now that I have all the other components installed. Okay, removed it. Checked board where it was touching and don't see anything that looks burnt or nothing. Reinstalled all. Doing the exact same thing...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay. Remove all unnecessary components. Leave only the following connected to the board.

ATX 20/24 pin connector
CPU 4 pin connector
Power Switch connector
One DIMM in slot A (closest to CPU)
Monitor (via VGA port, integrated graphics).

Then try powering the system on.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Nothing. I did keep the fans in just cause they're zip tied tight under the hdd but yeah. Does exact same thing.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Did you inspect the motherboard while it was out?


I am sorry to say that it looks like something was damaged, likely due to the standoff.

I suggest to perform a full bench-test to be sure.
http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f255/how-to-bench-test-troubleshoot-your-system-171424.html


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm so p.o. atm that I'll probably do that tomorrow... So the few things that have power is due to the psu right? So I pretty much fried my mobo... 

You know... They shouldn't already have certain brass standoffs in there and in the instructions tell you to line up your mobo and add them where needed. In no step did they indicate "btw remove the ones we alrdy randomly put in there..."

So, great... Any idea where I can grab a cheap mobo? I'm practically out of money now. This was going to get my PC good for the winter and I just bought a ps3 to replace my old ylod one so I'm pretty tapped out. I can MAYBE not have as much money as I'd like saved up and spend 30-40$ on a mobo.... 

In trying to fix up my PC I've ruined it. Oh lovely. :banghead:


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Don't let it aggravate you too much.

I have done more than just ruin motherboards in my time... 

Let's get through the bench test and see what we can do from there.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Quick Mobo check- Remove all RAM, boot, listen for beep codes from the Mobo speaker.
No RAM and no beeps indicates a Mobo problem. 

If you get the proper no RAM beeps, bench test precisely as described below.

Remove EVERYTHING from the case.
Set the motherboard on a non conductive surface. The motherboard box is perfect for this. DO NOT PLACE THE MOTHERBOARD ON THE STATIC BAG! It can actually conduct electricity! 
Install the CPU and heat sink. 
Install 1 stick of RAM.
Install the video card and attach the power supply connection(s) to the card if your card needs it.
Connect the monitor to the video card.
Connect the power supply to the motherboard with both the 24pin main ATX Power connection and the separate 4 pin (Dual Core CPU) or 8 pin (Quad Core CPU) power connection.
Connect power to the power supply.
Do NOT connect ANYTHING else. Make sure you have the power connector on the CPU fan connected.
Use a small screwdriver to momentarily short the power switch connector on the motherboard. Consult your motherboard manual to find which two pins connect to your case's power switch. Then touch both pins with a screwdriver to complete the circuit and boot the system.

If all is well, it should power up and you should get a display. Then assemble the parts into the case and try again. If the system now fails to boot, you have a short in the case and need to recheck your motherboard standoffs.

If the system does not boot after this process, then you most likely have a faulty component. You'll need to swap parts, start with the power supply, until you determine what is defective.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Well that certainly simplifies it... 

Removed all RAM. Startup, exact same issue and no beeps at all. 

Mobo? Well I made an offer on this on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110952276769&ssPageName=ADME:X:BOCOR:US:1123 and the guy met me at 33$ free s/h.... So should I go ahead and replace the mobo? Are we sure no beeps equals mobo? If so I'm going to go ahead and purchase it. I don't think 33$ is too bad. I believe i payed over 80$ first time a few years ago.

This comes tested, guaranteed not doa, and with a full 30 day money back guarantee. Also seems to have a dif cooler/fan on CPU and fresh thermal paste but that doesn't matter since I'll be replacing that. 

So can someone explain to me what exactly I messed up here so I don't make the same mistake twice? Could that single brass stand off touching the mobo somewhere besides where the screw holes are really have caused all this? And if so how? 

What protects the screw hole areas from these brass stand offs contacting the mobo? Also should I remove the other brass stand offs that were alrdy in the case but aren't even near the mobo? Should there be protective washers between the stand offs and mobo that I'm missing? 

Also what do I need to look up as a key word to find those 3 pin 4 pin adapters I got with my fans? I need 2 more I believe if I ever want to use the 3rd fan. And while I might not I'd like to have the adapters if I choose to.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I can't check the item specs right now... I am at work and all retail/resale sites are taboo.

Short answer... Yes, the brass standoff shorting against the bottom of the board can cause failure. If you flip over your board, you will see all the solder joints... If they are shorted together it can cause voltage to be applied where it isn't supposed to. This can burn out components... 

Just search "fan to molex" and you should get a bunch...


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

If the Mobo comes with a CPU heatsink/fan and fresh paste, why not use it?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Tyree said:


> If the Mobo comes with a CPU heatsink/fan and fresh paste, why not use it?


Because I have no idea what paste he used, and I think this 92mm fan/cooler combo w/ high ratings is probably better than any proprietary heatsink/cooler combo that was designed over 10 years ago don't you think? I noticed when I swapped everything the lil' heatsink I JUST dustered out previously was alrdy clogging with dust. I think it's just a really poor design. Or maybe was designed for the mobo to be running bare bones. 

I did have a question about the cpu cooler/heatsink mounting though. I figured out the brackets and all no problem but I recall reading something on the install guide about not having to apply much pressure. Well I don't know what they consider too much but I did have to push the cooler down a tad simply to get the second clip to snap down. That's normal right?

Oh and dude shipped the new mobo today already. That was fast. Gotta love prompt ebay sellers.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

The heatsink that came with the IBM is designed for use in the low-profile enclosure. It is actually a very high efficiency cooler. But, as you noticed there are some design flaws...

The P4 style retention brackets were always a pain in the neck. Some slight pressure on the spring clips to get them over the retention bracket is normal.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Boy were they a pain to get off. I just want to make sure that wasn't the problem. I think I'm just being paranoid though. To remove the snap clips I just put a blade screw driver between where it clips on the plastic retention piece and the clip itself and slightly twisted and it popped it right off... You don't think this thing was TOO tight do you? I mean, I have the correct retention clip. 478. So it should be fine right?

I've went ahead and removed everything. However i left the hdds and dvd drive and psu. Will that be okay to go ahead and leave those in there when I install the new mobo? They shouldn't get in the way. I just had them mounted in and felt it might be unnecessary to remove them. Also removed any extra brass stand offs but there was only one that would have been making contact w/ the board and I don't see anything abnormal from checking it out. 

There was a cradle piece underneath the mobo where the old CPU bracket screws held it onto the other side. That doesn't make any difference right? Again, I think I might be being over paranoid.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I was never a fan of the P4 heatsink retention system... It was always a PITA...

The old retention bracket should have been removed.

The other standoffs in the case (out from underneath the motherboard) are okay to keep in. 

Earlier, you asked about isolators for the motherboard... Each of the metal pads where the board attaches to the case are ground points. Insulators are not necessary, and can be detrimental.

BTW... I sent you a PM, did you ever get it?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I did completely remove the old retention bracket. Just wanted to make sure. I think I'm being paranoid about that. I'm sure I blew it with the stand off mistake... 

I totally missed your pms as I'm not used to navigating this PC since it's not mine. Sorry bout that! 

So what I wanna do is try this again and GET IT RIGHT this time. Got a nice working mobo in the mail on it's way. I do want to find out a couple things. 

HDA and USB. No spots on this motherboard for them... Here is what they look like from what notes I took when doing the swap. Now the new mobo looks like it has a spot for the usb with 5 pins and 4 pins but it's backwards so whichever way you flip the plug it won't line up. As far as hda there wasn't one on the old case so no idea on that one and I don't see any spots on the mobo for one... If you look at the ebay ad I bought the new mobo from it has some pretty large pictures where u can see almost all the motherboard details and ports. So do I need converters for these or something?

Also there is a diagram of the 8 pin plugin after I ran all wires individually do where they touched on the old case. Want to make sure I'm installing the new case ones onto the right pins. No reset I guess so that would stay open?... Hope this all makes sense.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

There's nothing ineffective with the Intel P4 retaining system or the heatsink design.
All heatsinks get clogged with dust if they are never cleaned.
All standoffs that are not required are best removed.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I would have to see the power button to ascertain what the functionality of each of the sets of wires is...

With your new multimeter, you could test continuity between the USB connector and the USB ports... Then I can tell you which wires need to be switched, if any.

As for the HDA/SDA Front Audio, your board may not have the proper header, best just to leave it disconnected.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Tyree said:


> There's nothing ineffective with the Intel P4 retaining system or the heatsink design.
> All heatsinks get clogged with dust if they are never cleaned.
> All standoffs that are not required are best removed.


You might have missed when I mentioned this before. When I cleaned the insides of the PC I cleaned out a large amount of dust debris from the heat sink. Roughly a week later while still waiting for the rest of the parts for this swap I checked it out again and it was decently clogged and built up with loads of dust debris again. It's in a normal room, no abnormally dusty areas (I'm a bit of a neat freak), no pets or anything like that. Was running w/o a shell for that week. Rest of the mobo and insides was dust free. If it takes that little amount of time for it to build up that much dust I consider that ineffective. That's just my opinion. 

All stand offs that aren't required have been removed. 



GZ said:


> I would have to see the power button to ascertain what the functionality of each of the sets of wires is...
> 
> With your new multimeter, you could test continuity between the USB connector and the USB ports... Then I can tell you which wires need to be switched, if any.
> 
> As for the HDA/SDA Front Audio, your board may not have the proper header, best just to leave it disconnected.


When you say you need to see it in detail what are you looking for exactly? It's a very tiny rectangular box that is mounted behind where the power button on the case would push it in. In the back there are three pins on top and three on bottom. In my diagram the ones marked bottom were plugged into the button and top, top. I'm not sure how much more detail I could get into. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. 

I'm a bit confused with what you are telling me to test. So you are saying test the pins in my diagram that the two usb wires were plugged into?... 

HDA adapter not an option? If not no biggy. We don't have to have those.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

@Tyree... He was speaking of the IBM proprietary heatsink... Not the Intel OEM style...

I just find the Intel P4 OEM style retention system (with the dual spring clips) to be a pain to operate... Especially the plastic ones that Intel shipped with their P4 CPUs.

@Shewillnotdie - I mean, take the button apart or test it to find the functionality of both sets of wires... Did you test the wires like I suggested?

With the USB header... The one from the case is a standard USB 2.0 header. OEM systems did not always use standard designs, nor did they always use 2.0 pin-outs. Plugging the USB connector into the header as is could cause problems when connecting USB devices... By testing the pins and identifying them, I will be able to tell you if they are standard or not and if they need to be changed or adjusted.

Most likely your board doesn't have HDA and uses AC'97... Do you have an audio header on your replacement board?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Once I figured out how the clip system worked I didn't really have any problems with it. It does seem pretty darn tight, but I mean I'm sure the proprietary design that screws down was just as tight. Just seems tighter when you are pulling springs down and clipping as oppose to simply turning a screw driver. 

As far as taking the button apart, the button literally is that little white rectangle as far as I can tell... With the six pins sticking out of the back and four of the wires from the 8 pin plug go in the pins (rather the pins go into the center of the wire). By testing them do you mean plug them in, see if the power works. Plug in the led, see if the led comes on? If so, yes. After following the wires I plugged the 2x power into the first two. Then put the power led in 5th and 6th and hdd led to 7th and 8th and started it up. Both leds seemed to work and power did so I assumed I got it right. If there is a way to test it with this multimeter to be more positive that would be great. I just simply don't know the first thing about using this new toy. :facepalm:

For the usb header. We can test the pins inside the port on the mobo. Am I understanding that correctly?... If they are standard I still don't see how we can modify the pins that are inside the lil' plugin on the motherboard to make them fit the plug end from the case that has the female holes. 

My board does use AC97. Only reason I can tell you that is because it immediately rings a bell. When I have to get the audio drivers for this mobo they are labeled AC97. I assume the replacement board is, well, it's the ibm thinkcentre 8187 m50 board, so identical to this one. The images on the auction I bought it on blow up pretty large so you can get a pretty good look at the board. I thought that was my only option since everything else I have is for this board...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

You can use the multimeter... I described it earlier...


Set the multimeter to continuity.
Touch one test lead to the black wire.
Touch one to one yellow wire.
Press the power button.
You should hear an audible beep.

Same thing with the USB ports.

Use the attached diagram to mark the wires...

1A -
1B -
1C -
1D -
1E -
2A -
2B -
2C -
2D -
2E - 

Use the USB ports that are in the OLD case...

Touch one lead to the designated contact in the USB port.
Touch the other lead to each wire until you hear the audible beep.
Mark that wire's color on the chart in the correct place.
Repeat on all contacts.

Something to keep in mind... Some of the contacts will likely have continuity with the same wire and/or multiple wires. (the common BLK wire will be one).


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Is there anything on the multimeter screen I should check for as far as the number 1 that shows up for continuity or do I simply check for beep? Also will this work with the old busted board? When it's not plugged into everything? Or do I need to wait for the new board?

Also the wires in the old case for usb and power end at the actual plugin piece w/ female holes. So where do I make contact w/ the wires?... Physically cut the wires to expose the inside and the there? Or can I touch the pins from the multimeter to the inside holes of the ports that line up w/ the wires?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Touch the 2 leads together to be together to be sure what your multimeter does when it closes a circuit.

On the connector side female all you need to do is touch the pin with lead. I will see about taking an illustration photo before the for work.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay, I'm still not grasping the testing. Touch the pin from the multimeter to lead? Well the usb port on the old case looks plastic. Maybe there is lead INSIDE the lil holes on it? Is that what you mean? I'm going to get to it shortly but my single on Saturday and day off Sunday just turned into two doubles because my boss made a mistake on the schedule so you'll have to bear with me. 

I got the new fan for my video card today and here's another shot in the foot.... It doesn't look like it will fit! Well, I'm pretty positive it won't fit. Here is the link to the auction I bought it from: ATI 55mm Radeon 9500 9600 9700 9800 Pro Cooler Fan New | eBay and it says known capatibility radeon 9600 pro. Well that's my card and those lil' "node" or cylinder things on the card appear to be in the way. and it almost looks like it would be blocking the power plugin too. I can't remove those cylinder node things right? I'd assume not...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

That item you have circled is a capacitor. You cannot remove that. Many cards use smaller (physical size) capacitors for heatsink clearance. That heatsink does not look like it will work with out modification of the video card... That is not recommended.

To try and explain a little better (passed out before I was able to take pics last night) I have included a little MS Paint diagram.

You want to touch one lead of the multimeter to either of the areas pointed to by the red arrows.

The common retention mechanism usually leaves exposed metal from the contact on the sides of the connector.

The other end of the test lead should be touched the points marked my letters in my previous diagram.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I just realized the attachment was not in this post... I must have forgotten to upload it... 

This is the USB Port side.



GZ said:


> You can use the multimeter... I described it earlier...
> 
> 
> Set the multimeter to continuity.
> ...


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Lets figure out the usb ports after we get the PC running. First thing I need is my PC to actually work. 

I have the new motherboard installed. It will start up fine and at first it went to the IBM Thinkcentre screen where u can go to bios or startup. It also said a bunch of configuration changes. So I restarted, went to bios, set time, and saved changed. Now it will only go to a black screen with the white flashing under score in the top left when I start it. Normally you have to hold the power button down to turn off with the old case, but if I push in the power button it turns right off. 

I tried switching the jumper on the board for 30 seconds, and switching it back, then starting PC. That didn't help any. 

So this motherboard shows up on the screen and all but now i can't get passed this black screen with flashing under score. Please advice...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay, go into the BIOS and set it to "Factory Defaults".

Remind me, are you using a PATA (IDE) or SATA HDD?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

GZ said:


> Okay, go into the BIOS and set it to "Factory Defaults".
> 
> Remind me, are you using a PATA (IDE) or SATA HDD?


I'm trying to get back into bios now but it seems to be frozen on the IBM Thinkcentre screen. I clicked enter to interrupt startup and it's just sitting there... I'll give it a minute then turn it off and back on. 

I'm using both hdd. One IDE one SATA.

EDIT: Got into Bios. Hit F9 to set default. F10 to save and exit. Went to a screen that says a bunch of stuff and at the bottom says F1 for setup F2 to resume if no action is taken error boot sequence will happen or something to that effect. When I just click resume it sits on the black screen w/ flashing under score in top left. Setup goes to bios. 

Btw I went ahead and left the cooler/heat sink on there since I was getting negative feedback for wanting to improve that. Guess I'll just throw it in the money wasted pile since there is no way my new PC when I get to building that will have 478 socket. :/


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Which one is the SATA, the OS drive or the spare/storage drive?

Also, go into the boot options and set the OS drive as the first bootable HDD.


----------



## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Are you testing on the bench?
If not, I would suggest you do so precisely as described back in Post #107.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

GZ said:


> Which one is the SATA, the OS drive or the spare/storage drive?
> 
> Also, go into the boot options and set the OS drive as the first bootable HDD.


Well I added the SATA second so I believe that's the storage. I'll try to get back into bios tonight and set the IDE for first boot. 

As far as bench testing everything I was under the impression that was solely for testing all the hardware? This isn't all new hardware. It worked fine before. It was obviously the mobo in this scenario since everything starts up and I get a view w/ the new mobo. So why would I take everything apart to test hardware?


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

The bench test will also account for any odd behavior caused by the enclosure. 

Yes, make sure the IDE drive is set ahead of the SATA in HDD Boot Priority... Some PCs will halt on a non-bootable hdd without skipping to the next.

We will go from there then.


----------



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

:dance::dance::dance:

Stupid me. Why didn't I think of setting the boot sequence. I should have known that. Well, it was set to like diskette, hdd 1, and network. (whatever network is?) 

And auto boot was enabled with same optioned. I changed it to hdd 1, hdd 0, cd drive, disable rest. Baboom. Started. Now let's figure out how I can get these usb ports in the front working.  

I'm going to pull the old case out of the closet and use the multimeter as you said. The HDA jacks is no biggy but I definitely kinda need my usb ports in the front to be functional. 

Also I wanted to make it nice and zip tie neat like I did the first time but I didn't want to mess w/ success since it's working. Any tips on zip tie cleaning the case 101. Like dues and don't(s)? Don't want to make another dumb mistake. It's certainly not a mess atm just not as clean as I had it before.

Also the I have one front fan I installed connected to the other two built into the case w/ the power adapters all in a line and connected to the psu. I installed the side fan to have it blow directly on the graphics card which I figure is good since the cards fan doesn't work and I can't use the fan I bought, however the side fan that is solely plugged into the mobo w/ the 3 pin doesn't seem to really be spinning as fast as it should? And was also flashy w/ the led. What's that all about? Should I wait and get another adapter to connect it to the rest on the psu?


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I will have to get back to you in about an hour. I am wrapping it up at work and need to get finished, then drive home.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

GZ said:


> I will have to get back to you in about an hour. I am wrapping it up at work and need to get finished, then drive home.


Sounds good. I'll be up. Oh and I added a tid bit about the side fan in that msg above.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Well, I am back on... did you get anywhere with the USB header? (old one from old case)

As for wire cleanup... The only advice I have for you is to tuck the bulk of the unused cables from the PSU in the area behind the HDD bays... Just fold them up nice and use the included plastic ties to hold them in place. The rest of the wires, loosely zip tie them together to keep them away from fans and to keep the airflow open. You don't want them too tight and pulling away from the headers.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I did exactly what you said. Tucked all the psu ones in the open hdd spots and loosely zip tied the others out of the way. 

I will test the usb plug on the old case tomorrow morning. I just got done working a double today, and yesterday and I'm exhausted. Plus I'm sick as a dog. So double whammy. But I have all tomorrow to rest and fine read your usb header directions and test this out w/ the multimeter. So expect to here from me tomorrow GZ. :grin:

P.S. I did get your PM and will response tomorrow when I wake up and am more coherent and rested.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay. Get some sleep. Don't expect to see me online tomorrow though.. I am going to check in, but it's my day off and I have plans with a good friend. Probably won't be home until late. 

Glad to hear your PC is up and running again! Can't wait to help you out with your upgrade!


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Well hope you're enjoying your day off. I'm feeling much better than yesterday. Though still sick. Green tea, honey, halls, and day quil is my best friend today. :rofl: 

So I know you're going to be thinking "he's kidding right!?" but I can't quite grasp your diagram. I read the instruction manual on my multimeter to see where I should plug black cord and red cord in to the multimeter box. For continuity I believe I have them in the correct spot. I touched a couple pins and noticed it doesn't beep. All it does is the screen shows a 001 for some spots, and nothing for others... When showing nothing it has a default 1 on the screen. 

So There is metal showing on the TOP of the plug, AND bottom, AND the two rows the pins actually plug into. I don't understand whether I'm touching top metal to the hole rows, bottom metal to bottom row, or what's going on. PLUS I don't know if black or red goes to which or if it doesn't matter!? 

So I took the time to make a diagram of the plug for the old case and I think it's a pretty darn spitting image of what I'm looking at. The greyed out holes in teh middle two rows are in fact not holes. They are plugged. The greys out spots on top and bottom simply don't have metal. Top and bottom is here say since it can be flipped, I just added that to make the diagram more easily readable and make a bit more sense. SO using this diagram, I'm putting red pin and black pin to which ones? And what am I looking for on my multimeter screen????


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay... The metal on the top are just where the pins are secured. That is the best place to make the connection. So...

A = E
B = F
C = G
D = H
N = I
O = J
P = K
Q = L
R = M

I guess your multimeter doesn't have a tone for continuity... 001 should be a closed circuit.

I am attaching a small video. The beeps in my video are like the .001 display on your multimeter.

USB Test - YouTube


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Omg I was so confused and just finally figured out what you are asking me to do! The video really helped. Let me quickly explain what I thought you were asking. 

See I thought I had to put one of my multimeter pins to say A. on the diagram and then the other on E. and so on. pin B. to F. C. to G. 

Now after watching the video I think I understanding. I completely removed the two usb ports from the harness in the old case and pulled it out to test. So what I did was put my multimeter pin on say A. (which is also A. E. right? I think I got it now...) and then put the other pin INSIDE the usb end where my usb plugs used to plug in from the front of the old case. 

I GOT IT NOW! :facepalm: Jesus... Lol. 

So, assuming I really do finally get it, here are the results!

AE = 001
BF = 1
CG = 1
DH = 1

IN = 001
JO = 001
KP = 1
LQ = 1
MR = 1

Obviously the 1's mean the multimeter didn't have any reaction since it stays at 1 default so I'm assuming those pins weren't conductive, or whatever you would call it. 

So how do these results help us with the new case and it's usb plug?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I fear I may have confused you even more... And perhaps myself in the process!!!!

Oh lordy...


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Oh lord... Lol. So you did want me to use the pins on both spots on the usb that plugged into the mobo and not the place where the usb plugs in and the place that protrudes the case?... If so, I also did that and have the results.



shewillnotdie said:


> I thought I had to put one of my multimeter pins to say A. on the diagram and then the other on E. and so on. pin B. to F. C. to G.


This way? ^


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

One of the leads needs to make contact with one of the connections on the motherboard plug.

The other needs to be touched to one of the contacts in the USB port itself. You can see them by looking inside the USB port... There are four metal "pins" inside the port...

Those four connections are "Common" "+Data" "-Data" and "+5VDC". 

On my diagram in post #126 the contact points are the small black rectangles under the letters... 

The USB pinout for that diagram would be

1&2 A - +5VDC
1&2 B - -DATA
1&2 C - +DATA
1&2 D - COMMON
1&2 E - COMMON

We need to find continuity between the pins on the connector end to the connection points in the USB ports so I can tell you if the connection is Standard or Proprietary.

If the connection is standard, then all you need to do is plug in the USB connector to the USB header on the MB.

If it is proprietary, the connector will need to be rewired to work with the board or an adapter will need to be made.

I think you can see the possible outcomes of having some of those connectiosn crossed, eh? (don't need any more blown up PC components! :grin


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm so lost... Okay, it's certainly not standard because the plug from the usb ports in the new case, will not line up with the pins on the motherboard where the previous cases usb ports plugged in. 

So, I'm testing the completely wrong case's usb thing then?

I need to test the NEW cases usb plugin, with the plugin spot on the motherboards pins?... See, I believe when I tried to see if the new case's usb plug would go into the spot where the old case plugged into the motherboard the motherboard usb port has pins where there are simply no holes on the new case's usb plugin. So it's not possible to plug it in. Does that make sense?...

P.S. Should I just go buy a usb hub to plug into the back of one of the mobo usb ports and sit on top of the case until I upgrade and start building the new PC? Lol. I only ask cause I'm still seriously lost as to what I'm trying to test. NEW All In One Multi-card Reader with 3 ports USB 2.0 hub Combo for SD/MMC/M2/MS | eBay ? :neutral:


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Or heck, even cheaper? Black MINI 4 PORT USB 1.1 HUB Full SPEED For LAPTOP PC | eBay (last one says .99 buy now till you select then it's 4.85) I'm just so confused atm figure something like this would save us both the hassle, lol. But I'll wait for your input before I do anything.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

According to your diagrams, the Standard USB connector should connect to the boards USB header.

I believe you were testing the correct header... You need to test the OLD cases USB cables... The new case uses Standard USB 2.0 headers.

Is the old cases USB connector a different size than the new one???

I wish I held on to that board... :facepalm:


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

The old cases usb plugin is the one I diagrammed in the previous msg. Is that standard? Because I went to plug the NEW case's usb into the mobo and it wouldn't fit because there were pins where holes were plugged?... I'm gonna hit the sack atm but if this isn't adding up I'll pop open the new case and diagram the mobo's usb pins and we can line them up w/ the new case's usb plugin.

I think the connectors were the same size but the holes that were plugged were different or the holes weren't identical or something didn't match up. I'll find out exactly tomorrow when I get off work because I honestly don't remember.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay. Figured it out today. Here is the problem. They are both two rows. One of four, one of five. BUT they are reversed. So either way you flip the plug it doesn't line up with the pins on the motherboard usb front plugin. (it is labeled usb front on the mobo btw)

Here is a diagram. The red square represents where the new case's usb plugin doesn't have a square hole opening for a pin. So whichever way you flip it, as you can see from the diagram, it won't fit into the motherboard's usb front ports. Either way, there would be a pin where the new case's usb plug has a plugged up hole. Does it make sense now?...

It's kinda confusing because it looks like a simple "4 row 5 row just flip it" scenario but they are reverse so either way you flip it it doesn't line up.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay, I see the problem now... I must have missed it in the earlier diagrams and explanations.

This is a standard USB header pin-out.









There are 2 options at this point.


Remove the stopper in the case's USB plug and rearrange the wires to match the motherboard's proprietary pin-out.

Whip up an adapter to change the pin-out from the motherboard to match.

Either way, in order to further assist you I will need to know the pin-out of the old cases USB ports.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Definitely option two because eventually when I build my own PC for gaming when I get my taxes we'll want a standard usb header for the new mobo. 

I went ahead and removed the whole darn thing from the old case. It was pretty simple actually since the two usbs have clips on the end and it simply clipped in and out. 

Now how do I go about telling you the "pin-out" of this? Is that what we were discussing earlier with the multimeter? Finally got the digital camera batteries charged and managed to snap a good pic of this thing. Now if what we were discussing earlier is the "pin-out" thing then did I not do it correctly? And if so maybe you can show me exactly what I did wrong and where i need to touch for each one on that pic since it's a pretty clear pic.


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

If you watch the video you should be able to see where I am placing the leads on the multimeter. Every time my multimeter beeps, there is connectivity between the pin and the contact point in the USB port.

If you look inside the USB port, you will see the 4 metal contacts you need to test. 

If you can, use the diagram in post 126.

Assign a number to each contact in the plug end. The end result after all leads are tested should look something like this.
Color of Wire USB # Contact #
1 yellow 1 a
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 
9
10 - NC (no contact)


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay. I think I understand. Before I thought you were simply putting the pin anywhere inside the usb end. 

SO! If I get this correctly... 

Going back to diagram on post #140

You need me to touch one pin to spot A (which is also E correct?) and then with the other pin touch each of the four metal spots INSIDE the usb end. Then do the same for the SECOND ethernet plugin spot with it's four pins inside. And do this same thing for BF, CG, DH, and so on. CORRECT?...

And log which ones go to 001 or just don't do anything and keep the multimeter at 1, right?...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Actually... D and E should be the same.



> 1&2 A - +5VDC
> 1&2 B - -DATA
> 1&2 C - +DATA
> 1&2 D - COMMON
> 1&2 E - COMMON


The diagram is 180° from the way the USB ports were situated when I made the video.

In the diagram the contacts are on the bottom of the "tongue" (as I like to call it) and when I was testing the contacts were on top.

The reason I have the USB ports labelled 1 & 2 is that I wasn't sure what the orientation was in the old case. So each contact should be made with the number and the letter. (i.e. 1A, 1B, 2A, etc.)


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Just so we are on the same page, here is an illustration... Same configuration as the diagram.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay. I think I get it but what the heck is with the D AND E thing? It's tongue a b c d counting from the far right one. Why is it also pointing to the side of the thing?... And 1 2 3 4 are going to be the holes in the plug that goes into the mobo then I take it? 

Why is this so confusing? :/


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

D and E are both "common" or "ground". The multimeter will show continuity to both D (the ground pin) and E (the metal USB housing) from the same wire (most likely black).

Yes... 1 - 10 are where the plug connects to the pins on the motherboard.

The test lead may not properly fit in the openings on the business end of the connector, that is why I suggested using the exposed metal on the side of the connector.

EDIT:

See in the first diagram how the E is pointing to the heavy black line around the USB port? That is what it represents, the metal outside of the USB port.


----------



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay I believe I got it. So it simply points to both because I could use the metal housing if I wanted. 

Second, I could use the pin INSIDE the actual hole or on the exposed metal right above it. Makes no difference. 

So now you need to know the multimeter reading for each hole to each "tongue" on usb end ONE and TWO. 

If that all sounds correct I'll test it all between shifts tomorrow and get back to you. I'd do it tonight but I have a double tomorrow and want to get some sleep. So plan on hearing from me tomorrow and hopefully I understand what you need at this point. :thumb:


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

shewillnotdie said:


> Okay I believe I got it. So it simply points to both because I could use the metal housing if I wanted.


Close... I just wanted to let you know that D and E will show continuity so you aren't surprised... Also to stress the importance of not touching the side of the USB port when taking the reading.



shewillnotdie said:


> Second, I could use the pin INSIDE the actual hole or on the exposed metal right above it. Makes no difference.


Right. The exposed metal is the outside of the actual female pin connector. It is just easier to access than the pin through the opening. If you are more comfortable, you could use a paper clip that is approximately the size of the pins and push it into each hole as you are testing. Whichever you find easier.



shewillnotdie said:


> So now you need to know the multimeter reading for each hole to each "tongue" on usb end ONE and TWO.


I don't need to know the readings. I just need to know which wires have continuity with which contacts on the "tongue". That way I can instruct you on how to make the adapter and get the proper connections.



shewillnotdie said:


> If that all sounds correct I'll test it all between shifts tomorrow and get back to you. I'd do it tonight but I have a double tomorrow and want to get some sleep. So plan on hearing from me tomorrow and hopefully I understand what you need at this point. :thumb:


That sounds good. The 1 should be an open circuit and the .001 a closed circuit. Closed circuit means there is continuity and you should mark (associate) that connector with that contact. To be 100% certain you have it right, take a reading of the multimeter without touching the leads to anything... That reading is an open circuit (no continuity). Then touch the two leads together, that is a closed circuit (continuity).

I hope I am not confusing the situation more! :grin:


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I don't think you're confusing me. :blush: Haha. But seriously. I think I understand all that. I read a 101 multimeters for dummies on continuity to try to get this a bit more. 1 when pins are on nothing. 001 when touching. So yeah. 

Assuming I got this correct finally, here are the results. Hope they make sense... The ones I left blank didn't have continuity and stayed at 1 when I made pin contact. 


```
USB 1 

1A 
1B 
1C 
1D 001

2A 
2B 
2C 
2D 001

3A 
3B 
3C 
3D 

4A 
4B 
4C 
4D 

5A 
5B 
5C 
5D 

6A 001
6B 
6C 
6D 

7A 
7B 001
7C 
7D 

8A 
8B 
8C 001
8D 

9A 
9B 
9C 
9D 001
```


```
USB 2

1A 
1B 
1C 
1D 001

2A 
2B 
2C 
2D 001

3A 
3B 
3C 001
3D 

4A 
4B 001
4C 
4D 

5A 001
5B 
5C 
5D 

6A 
6B 
6C 
6D 

7A 
7B 
7C 
7D 

8A 
8B 
8C 
8D 

9A 
9B 
9C 
9D 001
```


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Well... I have good news for you...

The motherboard's USB pinout is standard, ecxept for the "Key" and the "NC" positions.

This makes life a little bit easier.

The stopper in the "Key" position is usually only a plastc plug that can be removed. The reason it is there is to prevent accidental reverse connection.

You can do one of two things now... Remove the stopper and make sure you plug the connector in the correct orientation, or make an adapter. 

Which would you rather do?


----------



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Easy answer. Which one is easier? Lol. :grin:

So just to confirm we'd be removing the stopper from the NEW case's usb plugin correct? 

And if we do that I would HAVE TO make sure to plug it in correctly since it would be able to plug in one of two ways correct? And what are the reproductions of plugging it in incorrectly? (not that I plan to just asking!) 

And what does making the adapter entail?

P.S. :dance: VICTORY! I finally understood what you needed and used the multimeter to get our results! :dance:


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Yes... It was a little bit different than I envisioned, but I was able to decipher your results!!!!

The extra pin (Pin 1 on your pic) is usually a NC (no connect)... But since it is only a spare ground (and in the KEY position on a standard USB port) there is no issue.

The easiest would be to remove the stopper and make sure the plug is oriented properly... It would also be the quickest.

As for the adapter... I would have just made one for you from my spare parts and sent it out. It is just easier that way considering you probably have no soldering equipment and such... :grin:


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Yeah, me=no soldering. Lol. Maybe, ONE DAY. 

So, I'm looking at the diagram on post #150. For the sake of not opening up the case again I'm going off that. So from what I drew up there, there is only one hole blocker on the new case's plugin. So it's obvious that's the one i remove. 

Okay. Now I remove that and it can plug in two different ways. Now which way is the correct way and which way would be the wrong way? And how am I going to be going about removing this blocker? Simply a sewing needle? I don't want to break it and will save the blocker so I can put it back in when we do the new PC build. This way I don't have to worry about accidents in the future!


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

The easiest way to explain this is the side with no wires in the 2 spots goes on the side with the "key" on the board (the spot with no pin).

View attachment 116672


The ground wires are usually Black in color and the +5VDC are usually Red.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I think I understand what you are saying but there shouldn't be one side with both squares having no pins or no holes will there? 

When I remove the stopper there will still be one hole on that side and the mobo port is still going to have one pin on one side and 2 on the other. Does that make sense?... Btw I'm pretty sure the wires in the new case are all the same color for the usb plug. I'm not looking right at them atm but I think they are...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Yes... Your connector will only have 8 wires in it... On standard USB headers the single pin next to the key is a NC. Both empty holes will go on that side.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

GOT IT! So all I need to know is both empty holes go on the same side? No problem! 

I'll likely do it today between shifts. Double again...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

For clarification... To be absolutely sure that we are both on the same page....

*The empty holes go on the same side as the spot with the missing pin...*.

To be honest, there is next to no chance that having the header backwards will result in damaged hardware in this case (the USB would just fail to work) but you can never be too careful, and I don't want to see anymore toasted hardware!!!! :grin:


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Me either! I believe i got it. I didn't get to it today cause it's been a very long busy day. Hopefully between tomorrow's shifts. (DOUBLE AGAIN) So this stopper though. It should pop right out w/ a safety pin then?...


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Very rarely is the stopper molded into the plug, but it does happen. 

If it is not molded, it will pop out with a safety pin or pick. It isn't the easiest task, so don't lose heart when it doesn't just pop right out!

Also, if you have access to a white-out marker or light paint-marker, mark the spot the plug was in so you can replace it when you upgrade your motherboard!


----------



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

It's molded...  I know what you mean with the stoppers because there are stoppers in my old case's usb plug. This new case's however is 100% molded after examining it today. :ermm:


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

If it isn't one thing, eh? Looks like it's adapter time.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Right? *sigh* Well, what supplies are needed? Since in the future I'll have a board for the new build w/ a regular usb in then we should weigh the cost of a temp usb hub or the adapter.


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

If you want I will make you one, then send it out to you. It will require soldering and such. I could whip one up in a few minutes without any issue.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Well, here it is...









The pin-outs are matched like this...


----------



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

WHOA! That was quick! Thanks GZ. Macgyver core. So with the orientation I still just need to have both empty pin and hole on the same side correct?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Both connectors should only plug in properly one way...

There is no NC pin on the adapter... The Key (blocked off spot) and NC pins are both empty. 

The MB side should look exactly like the original! :grin:


----------



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Wow, awesome! I'll let you know how it works as soon as it gets here.  Funny how we're just finishing this case upgrade and getting everything working, and now I can't stop thinking about the future new PC build.


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

It's addicting... Next thing you know you will be upgrading every 6 months... I already have the itch to do a major upgrade myself... It's been so long since I have run an Intel processor... I want to try on one of the new i7s! :lol:


----------



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I think the only processor I've ever run is intel. I really need to start reading up on processors because that's the one thing I have no clue on. Their rating, what makes them better, worse, etc. 

Dual core, all that. <-- No idea. But I'm going to need something good for the new build. I want it to be top notch for any game so I can get back into some PC gaming. Soon enough too since I'm sure I'll get enough tax money to be able to drop max 1k on a new build. Plus I already have case supplied, and a good PSU I should be able to use. HDD's to save cost, dvd-rw, real nive 22" widescreen lcd monitor.  

Next project though is to find out what in the world is wrong w/ my laptop. I gave up on it months ago. It just randomly stopped turning on one day. Think maybe it's the mobo. Might consider ATTEMPTING a mobo swap on the laptop since I can pick up that mobo on ebay for 10-20$. (Toshiba Tecra 9000, OLD I know!)


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I hate to say this, but if you are looking for power and longevity, go with Intel... The i series processors are the industry standard right now and leagues above AMDs highest offering... It'll cost ya though.

The AMD processors are on the up and up though... I don't think they will be able to compete with Intel like they did in the past for two reasons... Apple is now Intel-based... So there is more revenue and AMD has been investing their time in the GPU industry as well as CPU, and they are working on full integration of Radeon graphics with low-power CPUs... I am hoping that Trinity picks things up for them...

Keep your head up though... You are already halfway there!!! You have a decent case, a great PSU... You are on your way.


----------



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Well I don't want to spend more than 200$ on the CPU. I think I should definitely be able to get a good one for that much though. Maybe 100-150$ on mobo. Probably another 200$ cap on GPU since I'm gonna need some serious graphics for gaming. 

Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 :3drooling Lol. I also plan on integrating some of my ps3 gaming onto PC. On a side note i just ordered a 750gb hdd for my ps3 to upgrade here at the end of the week.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

AMD Suggestion
Newegg.com - ASUS M5A97 R2.0 AM3+ AMD 970 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
Newegg.com - AMD FX-8150 Zambezi 3.6GHz Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop Processor FD8150FRGUBOX
Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model F3-8500CL7D-8GBRL
Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity (100315L )

Intel suggestion
Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-2380P Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.4GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623i52380P
Newegg.com - ASUS P8Z77-V LE PLUS LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model F3-8500CL7D-8GBRL
Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity (100315L )


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Sounds like a plan. I'll go with Intel if you think they're better. Only 8gb of ram though? There is enough room on that mobo to do double that w/ the same sticks you linked right? :grin: If I buy those sometime before taxes there won't be something better for ram say February of next year when I get the rest right? Might just snag RAM and w/e early before hand to help out w/ cost later. 

After getting my radeon 9600 pro and checking reviews and stuff online and hearing about my card and simply name dropping it when I've had past graphics issues I was under the impression radeon was scum of the gpu world and nvidia was the best. Is it just that specific radeon model because it's so old? THe 9600 that is... Funny, that's the only graphics update I've ever done. Lol. Sad huh?

Besides what you listed I should be good to go with the rest right? I can use my current SATA and IDE hdd, dvd-rw, case, and psu. So that should be all I need to rock and roll right? And can I expect if I purchase those exact products for my PC to be rdy to handle any gaming for the next few years (from February) or is that a far stretch?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I pushed the envelope as to what you said you were willing to spend..

The AMD Zambezi CPU is the top of the line 8 core CPU... 

The Intel is only a Quad, but the price is about the same.

I need to do a little comparison testing, but either of them will do you good for a few years to come... 

I will cover more options with you later.

AFAIK, your current hardware should work just fine... I have to make sure the board has the PATA (IDE) connector(s)... They are becoming rare these days.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Well when you say you'd have to check on the IDE connectors what you are saying is worst case scenario I might not be able to use the IDE hdd since that's all that would effect. Right?

So the AMD is actually better?...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

shewillnotdie said:


> Well when you say you'd have to check on the IDE connectors what you are saying is worst case scenario I might not be able to use the IDE hdd since that's all that would effect. Right?
> 
> So the AMD is actually better?...


No... Either we'd have to find a motherboard with IDE capability, or get an IDE card. Both routes work well.

Your optical drive, is it IDE or SATA?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Not the biggest fan of AsRock, but from what I have heard, they have gotten a lot better in recent years.

They have boards in both Intel and AMD flavors with PATA (IDE) connections.

Newegg.com - ASRock 970DE3/U3S3 AM3+ AMD 770 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

But, there is always the other option... a PCI or PCIe IDE card too.

Newegg.com - StarTech 1 Port PCI Express IDE Controller Adapter Card

Of course, the goal in the long run is to shed the old technologies... But a hit in HDD space isn't worth it off the bat... Of course, you could pick up a 1TB HDD for less than $100 again.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Optical drive. You mean the dvd-rw drive? If that's what you mean I remember having a couple IDE cords in there when I was changing mobo. I agree the goal is to shed old tech. If I simply couldn't use one of the hdd then so be it. Like you said. 100$< 1tb hdd. Could probably pick up a 500gb for even cheaper. 

This morning I thought of something. Do CPU come with heat sink/cooler when you purchase them? If not I would need one of those too right?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I would say, hold on to the HDD for now... It is a relatively expensive item compared to the Optical drive.

You can pick up a SATA optical drive for less than $20.

Did you get the adapter yet? Does it work?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

The SATA HDD? Well it's not going anywhere. It's currently installed in my PC. :grin: I'll just use the simple SATA 160gb desktop HDD that's in there now when I do the upgrade. HDD space can come later. Essentials come first. 

Yes, I got the adapter today. I tried to tell you earlier but I think the site has been down for maintenance. This is first time I've been able to get on. Bad news. It's not working. When I plug in a flash drive the drive lights up orange like it always does, but then the light shuts off and the PC doesn't acknowledge it being plugged in at all. Usually it'll flash orange constantly while plugged in. 

I checked when installing the adapter and the dvd-rw looks like it has an IDE cord so I guess I'll need a new one but no sweat. 

Think there is something I have to do w/ the PC to get the usb port working properly?...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Check the pinouts... make sure they are the same as the old USB ports.

I was kind of afraid of this... If I were there, I would have been able to test everything... but I could only verify from our conversation! 

Worse comes to worse, I make ya another one... :lol:


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Check the pin outs... You want me to just verify that it all matches up w/ how the old usb plug looked correct?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Do like I told you with the multimeter...

Check one, then check the other to make sure they are the same...

If there are any that arent the same, I can tell you how to fix it.

Also, the USB cable should sit square and flush with the pinned part of the adapter... If it is hanging off one end, you need to flip it around! :grin:


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner GZ. My weekly 4 double shifts in a row started yesterday so I've been lacking time. 

So you want me to double check the SAME test I did before with the multimeter on the old case's usb port/plug cord correct?... And you want me to also check the adapter the same way? Am I understanding correctly?


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Yeah... When you get around to it... Don't rush yourself...

Test one pin at a time on each connector. They should be the same.

Just keep in mind the USB ports may be juxtaposed on the new case. The connectors inside each port should be the same though.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

FINALLY! A break from work. I have some relax time today and will test it all later today and get back to you GZ! :grin:


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

I will be waiting for the results! :chgrin:


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay. So sorry this took so long. I might have made a mistake and touched the side before because I got all same readings for usb 2 but for some reason they are different than what I originally got for usb 1. Here's my results. Does this make sense?...


```
USB 1 

1A 
1B 
1C 
1D

2A 
2B 
2C 
2D

3A 
3B 
3C 
3D 

4A 
4B 
4C 
4D 

5A 
5B 
5C 
5D 

6A 001
6B 
6C 
6D 

7A 
7B
7C 
7D 

8A 
8B 
8C
8D 

9A 
9B 
9C 
9D
```


```
USB 2

1A 
1B 
1C 
1D 001

2A 
2B 
2C 
2D 001

3A 
3B 
3C 001
3D 

4A 
4B 001
4C 
4D 

5A 001
5B 
5C 
5D 

6A 
6B 
6C 
6D 

7A 
7B 
7C 
7D 

8A 
8B 
8C 
8D 

9A 
9B 
9C 
9D 001
```


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Is this on the adapter or the original USB?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Original usb. You want me to test the adapter?

How would i go about that? Want me to check each pin w/ the corresponding female pin?...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

No... Test the adapter, connected to the USB ports...

Then compare, see if they match.

I would retest the USB 1 on the old USB... That doesn't look right...


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Eh? I'm so confused. 

So I have the adapter. And the old case's usb connector. You want me to connect the adapter to the old case's usb connector and do the same test? If so I'll do it in two seconds and update this post w/ the results. 

Also, know the lil' metal tongues inside the usb that are shown in post #156 diagram? USB port one's are like pushed down a bit so they're not as easy to make contact with as port two. Specially w/o hitting the outer metal.

Having the adapter connected to the old case's usb connector and testing for usb port 1 here is what I get. 

1 001 on outer metal shell. Not on A, B, C, or D...
6A 001
7B 001
8C 001
9 on outer metal shell. Not on A, B, C, or D... 

Does that make any sense? Would it be easier for me to send u this old case's usb connector?...


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

No... Connect the adapter to the NEW case USB...

Then test the pin-out of the USB with the adapter connected... It "should" match the pinout from the OLD adapter...


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Oh, okay. Got it. Just waiting for a spare moment to sit down. Today is my last double shift so hopefully tomorrow night I'll be able to check it out. Looks like the usb "tongues" or w/e for the new case are on the BOTTOM of the inside of the usb so it's probably gonna be a bit more difficult but I'll figure it out.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Hey GZ. Sorry it's been so long since I've responded. I've been so preoccupied with things. Had a Birthday, work nonsense, got a new (my first) tablet I've been playing with, just got a broken laptop I've been working with, printer not working, among other things. 

Which has all sort of gotten in the way of sitting down and working with the adapter and usb port in the new case. To be honest after getting different readings every time I try to get the readings with the multimeter I've sort of lost all confidence in my abilities to use the multimeter. :ermm: 

Anyway, I'll hopefully sit down here soon and try to get the readings on the new case's usb w/ the adapter plugged in and see what's going on. 

On an off topic note, I recently acquired a FREE Acer Aspire One NAV05 from someone at work. They said the screen wasn't working and they brought it into a "PC repair expert" locally and the person told them it wasn't worth the money to fix. Seems to work fine plugged into a monitor via VGA and the keyboard is missing one key so I found a new replacement screen and keyboard for a total of 50$ on ebay. Nice grab right?!


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Happy belated birthday!

Take your time! I would rather we get it right than break something! :grin:

Worse comes to worse, I'll make you another one!


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks! I'm hoping to get to it tonight.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Well, I don't know if and when I will be able to reply... I am sure you know what is hitting the East Coast... Power has been splotchy... We've lost it 4 times in the past 20 minutes... Luckily it was short lived each time... You lived in Florida, you know how it is! :grin:


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I still have almost all my family in FL. I certainly know! Lol. Hopefully out electricity is all you have to deal with and all else is well. 

I've been slacking on getting my butt to check the continuity of this thing anyhow so it's all good. 

I'm pretty excited to get this new laptop in working order too. Seems to be a fairly newer model. Just waiting for responses from seller to verify they'll work with NAV50 and then I need to figure out a way to reformat with a better OS than 7 Starter w/o a DVD drive.


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Don't worry... I can help you with that too! :chgrin:, but that is for a different thread and a different time!

I "borrowed" the UPS from my GC/MS machine (which is powered off ATM) to use on my workstation, so I don't lose power to the PC everytime the power fluctuates...

Hopefully it doesn't go off permanently!


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Yeah! I actually took the screen and keyboard out today to check part numbers and ordered the keyboard and I'm waiting on a response to my offer on a lcd screen. 

Damn. That's smooth thinking. I've said it once, I'll say it again. Macgyver. :rofl:


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## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Well... It went off permanently... At home I will be out of power for an estimated 7 to 10 days... I am only running here at work because I have a 50' extension cord hooking my UPS to the Emergency Power socket (generator powered)


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