# Engine Starts & Dies...But Not Fuel Starved



## Y.Dload

Hi;
Honda 5.5 HP engine will start ok, run 10 sec or so, then die.
If I remove the carb bowl, & open fuel ****, gas flows freely out.
I can blow through siphon pipe that sucks gas from bowl to jet.
So it's getting fuel OK, right?
It sound like a fuel problem, but the above steps show that it's not.
GRRRRRRRRR!
What can I be missing?
It's got fresh fuel. Gas cap is vented OK.
Once it stalls, it's hard starting unless I leave it 10 min or so, Then it's an easy start.
Thanks for any ideas.


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## k2skier

Y.Dload said:


> Hi;
> Honda 5.5 HP engine will start ok, run 10 sec or so, then die.
> If I remove the carb bowl, & open fuel ****, gas flows freely out.
> I can blow through siphon pipe that sucks gas from bowl to jet.
> So it's getting fuel OK, right?
> It sound like a fuel problem, but the above steps show that it's not.
> GRRRRRRRRR!
> What can I be missing?
> It's got fresh fuel. Gas cap is vented OK.
> Once it stalls, it's hard starting unless I leave it 10 min or so, Then it's an easy start.
> Thanks for any ideas.


I don't do many Honda's but are you blowing through the main nozzle only? There should be small brass jet that the fuel actually goes through, sometimes it's in the side of the main nozzle housing. Also it may have a low oil shut down that's malfunctioning. On some that I have worked on they can be bad but still start up, they have a delay so the system builds up oil pressure first. Check for spark when it's shutting down and try half choke (or more) to see if it's starving for fuel for sure or not.


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## Y.Dload

Thanks for your reply k2skier;
There is a single tube from the carb bowl to the throat.
the tube has an insert with a pinhole opening. This is not blocked.
Aside from this, the only opening to the bowl is the fuel line which is controled by a float valve. 
What moves fuel up this first tube?
The press. diff. caused by air flow in carb throat. (partial vacum).
The bowl should be at atmospheric then, right?
So how is bowl kept at atmos pressure?
I was looking for another opening, but do not see one.
Recap...two openings to sealed chamber, fluid drawn through one, the other opening only when float allows.
This would create partial vacum in bowl, hence, no press diff, no fuel flow, stalling.
I'm going to have another look, but did not see a 3rd opening when looking for it.
Darn this is annoying!


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## Y.Dload

HA!
There is an opening!
Was it blocked?
I don't know. I was poking with an unbent paperclip as I was exploring, so I may have dislodged some debris.
Furthermore, when I first pulled the carb off, I ripped the gasket, and some bit of frayed gasket may have blocked the machined groove leading to the breather opening.
I'll have to wait until tomorrow to try it out.
I dropped the carb & broke a plastic lever arm, so now I have to wait for epoxy to cure.
I'm sure glad I'm not paying myself by the hour to fix this.


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## MrChooks

OOOUUUCHHH!!

Please - never use a steel poker to clear carb jets - they are very delicate and it's very easy to wreck the orifice dimension and shape:4-thatsba . I have found the best thing to use is something like uncoated copper fuse wire or plastic tooth picks - but whatever you use - it must fit through the jet opening easily and without having to be forced in

On the plastic arm - I guess it's worth a try - but I would be surprised if the epoxy repair lasted very long - my experience with trying to bond damaged plastic / nylon fuel system parts has always ended in tears  and in the end I have had to go out and buy a replacement part. Anyway - see how you go - you might be better at "epoxy gluing than me" :sigh:


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## k2skier

MrChooks said:


> OOOUUUCHHH!!
> 
> Please - never use a steel poker to clear carb jets - they are very delicate and it's very easy to wreck the orifice dimension and shape:4-thatsba . I have found the best thing to use is something like uncoated copper fuse wire or plastic tooth picks - but whatever you use - it must fit through the jet opening easily and without having to be forced in
> 
> On the plastic arm - I guess it's worth a try - but I would be surprised if the epoxy repair lasted very long - my experience with trying to bond damaged plastic / nylon fuel system parts has always ended in tears  and in the end I have had to go out and buy a replacement part. Anyway - see how you go - you might be better at "epoxy gluing than me" :sigh:


I use a dental pick, works great for jets, but you must be careful. I have had poor results also gluing/epoxying plastic carb parts, too much torque on the governor arm for a throttle plate. Maybe 2 screws and a piece of sheet metal? I would look at getting a new one if the epoxy doesn't hold, they couldn't be too much.


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## Y.Dload

Hi Again;
You Guys were right, my epoxy repair didn't last long at all.
I've now bolted a steel tab to the stub of the control arm remaining.
My concern is that the only thing holding the linkage in the hole is gravity.
We'll see how that works out.
I've been probing the carb again ( with a toothpick now ), and have found 4 orifices that were at least partly blocked. I'm surprised the engine started at all!
I've squirted carb cleaner on them, and am letting it soak now.
I'll drop into the machine parts shop in town when I get there next, and inquire about a replacement for the part I broke.
Thing is, I've got to get the lane cleared to get out.
4WD isn't going to get through that dump of snow, & I sure don't fancy shoveling out by hand.
Oh well' I've got a feeling that I've got the problem licked now.
Thanks for all the help.


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## MrChooks

:wave: good luck with it all Y.Dload 

Now you have the jets cleared - you should be OK - 

I agree - it's better to replace that broken plastic part - as i mentioned (as did k2skier) - my experience with gluing these parts even all the good will in the world has never been a sustainable solution


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## SABL

Don't even mention snow to MrChooks, he will have absolutely no sympathy....dammed old Aussie.... it's Summer for him. I'm in winter mode and Winter hasn't arrived yet.

You have come to the right place... MrChooks, 2K amd BG can get you going if you have problems with your equipment.

They cannot help me with my equipment......wrong gender!! Did I say that???


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## Y.Dload

Jan.30...Final Update
Well...it's working...sort of.
When first trouble shooting, I removed the spark plug after it stalled, connected & grounded it, & observed a fat, blue spark.
The problem isn't electrical I said to myself.
After trying everything else multiple times, I replaced the spark plug, & the stalling problem is gone.
Now it won't idle unless it has partial choke.
It will run if I open the choke while simultaniously opening throttle.
In this condition, it will surge like an old "hit & miss" engine under no load.
Under load, it runs evenly with plenty of power.
That's it till the spring...then I'll soak the carb. Right now it's too cold
Thanks for all the help.


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## MrChooks

:wave: Y.Dload

OK, if your engine won't idle without choke, I think it is likely either the idle jet still has a blockage or the atmospheric vent in the main jet is still blocked.:sigh::sigh: I think you are going to have to give the carb another clean :sigh:

The hunting (engine surging high to low to high revs) may also be be related to carb issues or it may be related to the governor not working properly.  See if you can give the carb jets a good clean, make sure the float level in the fuel bowl is correctly set and see if that fixes it. 

If not, give all the governor / carb linkages a good squirt with spray lube and exercise the governor links gently. If it still hunts, then see if you can relocate the governor tension spring up a set of holes to put a little more tension into the governor links

Hope that helps


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