# Viper 5901 starter kill



## namyenruoj

Hello,

I recently bought this Viper 5901 for my 1998 Toyota Rav4. I installed most of it myself. arming and disarming works. I also added 3 actuators for the 2 doors plus the back.The doors lock and unlock, arming and disarming respectively 
the problem that i got right now:
-i don't know how to install the starter kill
-i don't know where and what wire is my starter from under the dash
-i don't know how to make this remote start to work

I hope somebody can give me pictures or diagram on what to do. Is this type of model will give you interior light for few seconds upon disarming the unit?.
-any help would be appreciated


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## jaggerwild

The remote starter kill wires will go in-line with the factory starter wire, it will be in the ignition harness just behind the key assembly. Using a test light (that doesn't feed back ground) look for a heavy guage wire(bigger than most, but not always). Get to where you can access the harness with ease then after inserting the test light in the first wire, crank the starter over(just a bump/real quick). Continue this process till you find the wire that only shows "power/positive" during "starter crank" but not any other time(example when the ignition is on but the car is not running). Once you find this wire using a pair of side cutters, cut the wire (don't cut it to close to a harness) as if you need to re-connect it you'll be up a creek.
Side NOTE: some newer autos have more than one wire that shows power during crank, I think you shouldn't have this problem.
LEE should chime in soon (if he's not raising hell over the holiday) to give the the wire codes to look for (like starter wire is white with a red strip, constant is solid red, etc) so wait till he does so..
Usually to access the ignition harness I will drop the finish panel on the drivers side of the lower dash board (usually it is only a few screws, some may be hidden on you). On the alarm side of the starter disable, it should have two wires that go to the dash board starter wire. One will be for the "hot" while cranking(cause if the wire is now cut only one will show power under cranking condition). The other wire from the remote start will go toward the other side of the cut wire, under the dashboard(we call it the starter side) easy to see why cause if you put power to the now cut wire that is away from the ignition/cold during crank it will try to start the truck. 
For the delayed doom light, once you get the wire specs/color using a test light you can look in the driver left side kick panel. This is the finish panel to the left of the brake pedal where the upholstery meets the rug. This wire will show either ground or power while the doom light is on, it may also show the opposite when the doom light is NOT on. 
It has been a while for me to do the doom light delay so I'll leave it up to LEE to further help you, feel free to ask more questions as I'm sure there may be more info that you will need. If you are confused re-read what I have written, a few times slowly this may better help you to understand the book of info I have given you.

PS: Here is a link to an install to gie you the general ideal of where and what to look for, though it is not the same as your truck. It does show the HUSH panel removal, and the left side kick panel removal as well.

http://www.autotoys.com/New_Tech/DIY_98/ph42/ph42.htm


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## namyenruoj

thanks. I think I will wait for Lee to come. Do you need some kind of starter relay and where can i find the diagram to hook it up with my Viper 5901


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## jaggerwild

No relay needed if the unit has TWO wires coming from it (this would indicate the relay is built in) witch is usually the case with viper systems. I don't have a schematic but, what I would do is this.
Once the wire is cut (the truck will not start), I then put my butt connectors on the alarm unit wires and crimp them. Then I'll put the other end of the butt connectors over the starter wires, and test the alarm to see if they are correctly hooked up. If it is not hooked the right way the truck will not start(no matter if its armed or not), I then swap the connection and re-test the alarm(the truck will only start when the unit is disarmed).


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## jaggerwild

No relay needed if the unit has TWO wires coming from it (this would indicate the relay is built in) witch is usually the case with viper systems. I don't have a schematic but, what I would do is this.
Once the wire is cut (the truck will not start), I then put my butt connectors on the alarm unit wires and crimp them. Then I'll put the other end of the butt connectors over the starter wires, and test the alarm to see if they are correctly hooked up. If it is not hooked the right way the truck will not start(no matter if its armed or not), I then swap the connection and re-test the alarm(the truck will only start when the unit is disarmed).

If you only have one wire from the alarm for the starter kill then yes you must use a relay, I'll link you to a starter kill relay picutre. Only use the "normally closed" relay diagram, and you will not need the resistor they show across two of the terminals.

http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page2.asp#sk1 

Also a link for illuminated entry for ya, not sure witch is yours but on older toys it was a negative trigger.

http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page4.asp#ien


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## lcurle

Constant 12V+ White Fuse Panel 
Starter Red (Automatic) or Black/Gray Dots Ignition Switch Harness 
Ignition Black/White Ignition Switch Harness (Small Wire) 
Ignition 2 Blue/Yellow Ignition Switch Harness (Small Wire) 
Accessory Blue/Red Ignition Switch Harness (Small Wire) 
Tach Black Coil 
Brake Switch Green/White Driver's Side Kick Panel 
Trunk Pin Red/White (-) Orange Connector above Fuses 
Parking Lights Green (+) Gray Connector near Relay left under Dash 
Head Lamp Red/White Steering Column 
Door Trigger Red/Yellow (-)F Red/White (R) Orange Connector above Fuses 
Door Lock Blue/White (-) Driver's Kick Blue Connector Negative Trigger 
Door Unlock Blue/Yellow (-) Also Blue/Red (-) 
Horn Wire Green/Red Steering Column 
Windows Up LF=Yellow, RF=Blue/White, LR=Blue/Red, RR=Red/Yellow 
Windows Down LF=Green, RF=Green/Red, LR=Blue/Black, RR=Red/Blue (kick panel)


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## jaggerwild

Thank you MR. Lee!
By the way Happy Memorial day to you and all!!!!!(Hat off covering heart to remember our fallin HERO'S) God BLess America.


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## namyenruoj

Thank you guys "jaggerwild" and specially Mr. Lee. according to the wiring color. The starter wire which is red. is that for automatic engine. my 1998 rav4 is manual and i also notice unerd the steering i don't see any heavy gauge wire. what coud it be the problem for this Viper 5901 if you disarm the unit it will chirp 4 times and then my LED will blink 3 times then pause for 2 seconds then blink 2 times then it repeats. i turn on the engine so many times to erase the memory but it still blinks. how do i get rid of this.
Thank you guys again.


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## jaggerwild

namyenruoj said:


> Thank you guys "jaggerwild" and specially Mr. Lee. according to the wiring color. The starter wire which is red. is that for automatic engine. my 1998 rav4 is manual and i also notice unerd the steering i don't see any heavy gauge wire. what coud it be the problem for this Viper 5901 if you disarm the unit it will chirp 4 times and then my LED will blink 3 times then pause for 2 seconds then blink 2 times then it repeats. i turn on the engine so many times to erase the memory but it still blinks. how do i get rid of this.
> Thank you guys again.


 The chirps and flashes tell you the alarm went off and how it did so IE " drivers door was opened" its in the owners manual in my signature! Yes starter wire is red or black with gray dots AGAIN find it and cut it then you will know if you have the right one by trying to start it after cutting. The starter wire you are looking 4 is coming out of the ignition (behind it) if you reread my OP I stated it may not be heavy guage.

You did not tell use it was a manual :4-thatsba , it is up to you!!!

***Make sure the parking brake is always used*** if you forget and leave it in gear the results will be devastating..........

You could use the hood pin and wire trip from the alarm, put it under the E-brake so it must be depressed to let the unit start other whys it will not, I strongly suggest doing so.


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## lcurle

You can also customize a voice box that says" Is your parking brake on?" when you arm your car


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## namyenruoj

how can you do that Mr Lee.You can actually make your car "TALK". What do I need. By the way I am thinking of doing my remote start tomorrow or sometime this week but I am still confuse about this Heavy gauge remote start, (H3) 10-pin wiring harness. I have no idea how to hook them up from my 1998 Rav4 wiring. Please I need some help I would like to find out see if I can do this myself. How can you make this system when you disarm the unit interior light will stay on for few second. thanks guys for all the help


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## lcurle

You will use something called "T-Taps" when "taping" into your vehicle for the alarm. Get a pin point test light, it will save your butt. Just follow the wire diagram above and you will be fine, if you run into problems come back here.


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## namyenruoj

thanks guys,
for all the information. I did manage to install my viper 5901 as much as i can for my 1998 toyota Rav4, 2 door manual transmission. The only problem that I have right now is I can not do the remote start. The wiring diagram from H3 harness. where do you connect the pink/white flex relay and pink/black flex relay contact 87a to the car wiring harness. I remember I don't have anything connected from the ignition 2 (black/white).
also from H1 harness do you have to hook up the white/blue remote start activation and where? this is the last thing I have to make the remote start. almost anything works.

-arm and disarm, 1-chirp and 2 chirps respectively
-lock and unlock upon arming and disarming
-park light flashes
-interior dome light turns on for 30 secondsafter disarming
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-remote start not complete with 7 chirps?

any suggestion would be appreciated
___________________________________________


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## jaggerwild

namyenruoj said:


> thanks guys,
> for all the information. I did manage to install my viper 5901 as much as i can for my 1998 toyota Rav4, 2 door manual transmission. The only problem that I have right now is I can not do the remote start. The wiring diagram from H3 harness. where do you connect the pink/white flex relay and pink/black flex relay contact 87a to the car wiring harness. I remember I don't have anything connected from the ignition 2 (black/white).
> also from H1 harness do you have to hook up the white/blue remote start activation and where? this is the last thing I have to make the remote start. almost anything works.
> 
> -arm and disarm, 1-chirp and 2 chirps respectively
> -lock and unlock upon arming and disarming
> -park light flashes
> -interior dome light turns on for 30 secondsafter disarming
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -remote start not complete with 7 chirps?
> 
> any suggestion would be appreciated
> ___________________________________________


IF you have an alarm and remote start then you do not need the blue with a white witch is a turn on remote start wire, in other words if that wire see's a ground signal it will start the auto.
SO the H-wire are from a relay you are using to hook up starter kill right? I'll post a picture hang on BRB....

http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page2.asp

That page has a starter kill relay diagram on it, the rav starter wire will go to polls 87a and 30 this is the wire you cut to create starter kill. Use the top diagram normally closed starter kill relay.


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## namyenruoj

thanks jaggerwild.
my starter kill works. if the alarm goes off you can not start the car. i don't need any other  relay to make that work i use the onboard relay from the unit (brain). my question is the pink/white and the pink/black from the heavy gauge wire where do i hook these wire up. thanks


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## jaggerwild

namyenruoj said:


> thanks jaggerwild.
> my starter kill works. if the alarm goes off you can not start the car. i don't need any other relay to make that work i use the onboard relay from the unit (brain). my question is the pink/white and the pink/black from the heavy gauge wire where do i hook these wire up. thanks



What does the manual say they are for? Not all wires will be used(from the alarm/starter) depending on, like the alarm is either a positive trigger or negative trigger (so you will have one extra there). Also dome light supervision is the same, one will be a hood pin trigger.

It has been a while for me doing an install but pretty sure pink with white trace is not used, again it has been a while. Sometimes you will not need the extra ignition wires they supply with it, only way to tell is make sure the A/C unit engages while it is remote started. Make sure you hear the pump engage.


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## namyenruoj

still does not work, i hooked up the pink/white to my ignition 2 wire which is black/white from the ignition harness. how come if i remote start the car i don't have some kind of voltage across the pink/white nor pink/black. is that the wire that will supply power to ignition so it can start the car. i still get this 7 clicks from the unit and it says remote start error on my fob. please i need some help it bothers me now


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## lcurle

Starter Red (Automatic) or Black/Gray Dots Ignition Switch Harness


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## jaggerwild

OK,
Instead of telling me pink with a white(witch means nothing to me) tell me what the manual says the wire is for? IF its for an extra or second ignition then IT may need a relay to invert the signal(from ground to positive), bare in mind not all second ignitions are used.

So on the install manual what does it say these two wires are for? Pink with a white and pink with a black?
Also have you done the tach signal learn so the car knows what to look for when it tries to start? What exactly is not working? Does your car have a factory built in ignition kill? It may need to be fooled into thinking it is working ok then.

First things first, forget the chirps for now as if we get it working right that may clear up too, so when you try to start it what happens? Does it start then shut off, or does not start at all, does it click but then nothing? If it tries to start but then dies, try this(put the key in the ignition, only put it in DO NOT TURN IT) see if it will continue to run with the key sitting in the iggy.


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## lcurle

feed the little birds so they stop chirping so much....


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## jaggerwild

Still working Lee?
Scared me your posting was there when I edited my posting :laugh:


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## namyenruoj

thanks jaggerwild. this is what it says in the viper 5901 manual (wiring diagram)
-Pink/White Flex relay output (default is ignition 2)
-Pink/Black Flex relay contact 87a (default is ignition 2) the rest from this harness i hooked them up
-Violet/White tach input- i hooked it up to the black wire from the coil and i did the tach learn. i had the LED lit up constant after 3 seconds when the tach signal is learned what kind of error do you get if you did get the proper tach wire?
- my car doesn't have a starter kill built-in so what i did i use the the viper 5901 built in starter kill. it shut off the ignition (starter) when the car goes into alarm so iguess thuis thing works, i have no problem there.
here is my big problem:
-when i remote start the car 
-nothing happens at all i don't think the unit is not even trying to start the car
-then it gives me an error from my key fob and then it gives out 7 clicks from the unit
- i do this for at least five times it gives me the same output the car does not start at all
-so when i manually start the car by using a key no problem there
-then i do this safety check
-foot on the brake first then
-apply the emergency brake
-then release the foot brake
-but then when i turn off the ignition key the car should stay running but my car "SHUTS OFF". 
-sorry guys for all this information but i have to open it out so everyone can see what am i doing wrong. i hope we can solve this problem soon
Thanks again for all the replies.


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## lcurle

What year car is it? Does it have a PAssive Anti Theft system? Do you need a PATS bypass?


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## jaggerwild

Ignition two is your (pink/white) will go to the (Blue/yellow) in the cars wire harness(must hook this up). You should have a blinking signal when doing tach learn, so you either have the wrong wire or car is not idling? If you did it wrong then you would get a prolonged grinding noise while starting cause the stater will not know when the auto is running. If it does not start at all then it is something else not hooked up properly(probably ignition two) that is causing it(recheck all connection for proper installation I.E. Red from stater unit to constant power. So make sure it is true constant power, it may appear constant but if you use a test light and check it in every position of the ignition key(example while cranking does it still have power) the constant MUST have power while cranking or ANY other time/psition of the key.
The last part your trying will not work until the unit works, then you will get "pit stop mode". 
Can you try to use the "Tachless mod" does the manual offer it? If it does try it as it is just so much easier than the wired type.
Pink/black will not be used, try this. Get next to the unit(starter) hit the remote start button, listen to the unit does it make any noise at all? it should, if the unit is not hooked up the right way, it will not try to start. It then will give you the 7 clicks signal witch tells you why it will not start (example) "tach signal not learned", the manual should have a list of what the 7 clicks mean........
No problem asking me questions, but one at a time(keep it simple) if you will as it is too difficult if more than one is asked. And the rest gets lost in translation, so first question from you to me is this "how do I hook up the tach wire" this is my answer, you do not always need to hook it up. There should be a way to go "tachless" in the INSTALL manual(not the owners manual) if finding the tach signal is too difficult .......... 
Once this is done ask next question, if you can't not figure it out then ask more on that one!


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## namyenruoj

Thanks Mr Lee..My car by the way is a Toyota 1998 Rav4, 2 door, semi convertible
Thanks jaggerwild 
-my ignition 2 according to car manual is black/white and I see this wire from the ignition harness and I also get +12 volts across this wire when i turn the ignition switch to ON
-i don't see this blue/yellow from the ignition harness but I see this wire from the groups of wire
-the RED wire from starter unit i am pretty sure this is constant +12v all the time because i brought an extra wire straight from the battery with a 15A fuse to power all the alarm unit and so as my power locks
-i will go and check my car again today see if the unit is trying to start the car by listening from the unit
-the viper5901 has a tach less mode but i don't know how to program it
Thank you guys again for all your time


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## jaggerwild

Tachless mode must be programed first or else it will not work, read what it says, it is very easy to do and a must to make this work properly. So lets stick to this for now, read the instructions a few times ask questions from me then we'll get her done!!!

Ignition two(blue with a yellow trace) may be another color, use a test light to check it. This is easy to find as it will not show power while you crank the starter, but show power in any position but accessory.


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## lcurle

Tach signal is always the negative side of the coil.


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## namyenruoj

when you say there's power on any position. power on acc, power on "ON" position but no power when you crank the engine. is this right. i will try to do the tach less first thing tomorrow and then i will let you know if i did it.
i am tryin to understand how this remote start work. let say everything is hooked up properly when you remote start the car which wire from the harness will trigger the starter


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## jaggerwild

Sorry,
Correction, the ignition number two will have power in accessory and any position but not during cranking(my bad).


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## namyenruoj

i did do the tachless just now according to the programming you're right. it's not hard at all but when i started the car the engine did not go even from the unit i did not hear any thing and i get the 7 flash and error on the remote as well again. which wire is the one will give power to the ignition to turn the starter. i did not find the blue with yellow trace yet. maybe next time i have to go to work now.


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## jaggerwild

namyenruoj said:


> i did do the tachless just now according to the programming you're right. it's not hard at all but when i started the car the engine did not go even from the unit i did not hear any thing and i get the 7 flash and error on the remote as well again. which wire is the one will give power to the ignition to turn the starter. i did not find the blue with yellow trace yet. maybe next time i have to go to work now.


 The one that gives power to the starter is one of the two that go from the ignition kill wires to the starter wire(you could try starting it by remote then have a test light on the wire going to the "starter side"). Usually if your getting flashes its telling you it sees some thing or doesn't that it should so instead of starting its giving you a diagnostic code.

Not sure witch wire is ignition two thats why I said use a test light to find it as the codes that Lee posted are not always true wire colors, some times you just have to find them on your own.


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## namyenruoj

according to the car manual black/white stripe is the ignition 2. when i tested these wire with a voltmeter i get +12v accross this black/white when the ignition switch is on "ON" position, is this right?. the black wire from the ignition harness also gets +12v when the ignition switch is on "ON" position i believe this black wire is for the starter so i cut this wire and hooked up the wires from the unit green and violet. but anyway i will do some more testing tomorrow about the green and violet see if i get some kind of voltage across them. by the way before i cut the black wire, i started the car and it went but when i cut the black wire the car did not start at all so i assume i got the proper wire for the starter.


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## namyenruoj

what will happen if you mixed the starter wire (Green & Violet) will it give out the same problem. i have a feeling that i did. during remote start if you measure the voltage across the violet you get +12v and 0v at the green wire?


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## namyenruoj

1. Make sure the engine is running and the doors on the vehicle are closed
2. Put the transmission in neutral
3. Press on the brake in the vehicle
4. Apply the emergency brake
5. Release the brake
6. Within 15 seconds activate the remote start from the remote
7. The parking lights flash 5-times confirming that the remote start is active.
8. Turn off the engine (the car stays running when key is turned off)
9. Exit the vehicle
10. Arm the alarm (the vehicle should shut off when arming the system

I did this setup and everything works according to the step but then
if you remote start the car it does not start at all, flash 7 times and the problem is just like the problem before.


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## jaggerwild

There are several wires that will show power during ignition, one will be for accessories(heater/AC), ETC............
If the starter wire from the unit is hooked up backward the car would not start properly at all( so if it starts by key then your ok) also it works when the alarm is armed so you seem to have it right.
Were getting no where here really, and when i do post instructions it seems you do not grasp what I'm saying. 
7FLASHES is a code, if you read the "INSTALL manual" it will tell you what the flashes mean(again I repeat myself). Do you have a good clean ground hooked up? The Constant wire DOES NOT HAVE TO GO TO TE BATTERY, you can tap a source at the wire harness behind ignition. Is the antenna hooked up? as it will not work if not. I can only do so much here I can't do the work for you, what about brake pedal wire is it hooked up as this will cause it not to work ? The unit looks at all hooked up wires before starting if it sees something not hooked up or hooked up wrong then it will NOT START.

Constant 12V+ White Fuse Panel 
Starter Red (Automatic) or Black/Gray Dots Ignition Switch Harness 
Ignition Black/White Ignition Switch Harness (Small Wire) 
Ignition 2 Black/Yellow Ignition Switch Harness (Small Wire) 
Accessory Blue/Red Ignition Switch Harness (Small Wire) 
Tach Black White Connector At Coil Driver's Side of Engine, 2 Cylinder 
Brake Switch Green/White Driver's Side Kick Panel 
Trunk Pin Red/White (-) Orange Connector above Fuses 
Parking Lights Green (+) Gray Connector near Relay left under Dash 
Head Lamp Red/White (-) Steering Column 
Door Trigger Red/Yellow (-)F Red/White (R) Orange Connector above Fuses 
Door Lock Blue/White (-) Driver's Kick Blue Connector Negative Trigger or at Lock Module behind Glove Compartment 
Door Unlock Blue/Yellow (-) 
Horn Wire Green/Red Steering Column 
Windows Up LF=Yellow, RF=Blue/White, LR=Blue/Red, RR=Red/Yellow 
Windows Down LF=Green, RF=Green/Red, LR=Blue/Black, RR=Red/Blue (kick panel) 



Keep it simple PLEASE, is the brake wire hooked up?


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## namyenruoj

Thanks for being patient "jaggerwild". 
I tried the car first thing today as I mentioned. Finally it worked now. thanks again for all your help specially you and Mr. LEE
Like I mentioned before I did the manual shutdown according to the instruction, I am very happy because while the car is running I press this remote start button and from my remote it says remote start on and when I turned the ignition OFF the car still running, I exit the door and arm the car. then the car shut off. I can be able to do this before my big problem was I didn't know that I have to wait for a little while before you can be able to remote start the car i guess the unit has to prepare or resets itself first.
Now I have another issue which I noticed. the unit tries to start the car at least few times and it did not. so I tried it again, the unit tries again but when i depress my clutch pedal the car finally "STARTED". Is there a way of bypassing this clutch pedal because I can not remotely start the car outside unless I'm inside and pressing the clutch pedal


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## lcurle

you have to hook up to the ebrake so when the ebrake is applied and the vehicle is in neutral the car will start. If not, the car can roll away, or if it is in gear you will have a new garage access via your living room.


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## namyenruoj

I did hook up the black/white neutral safety (-) input to my ebrake already


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## namyenruoj

do i need some kind of relay so when you do the remote start the 2 wires from the clutch switch will make contacts. which wire is it from the unit do i need to connect.


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## jaggerwild

None,
just have to hook the two clutch wires together so it will start in any position with or with out the clutch. Remote starters are not made for clutch autos so there is no hook up for that wire.


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## namyenruoj

thank you "jaggerwild" you are very helpful. i finally did it. i installed a relay, i hooked up terminal 85 on +12v and terminal 86 on blue RS status from relay start output harness and i also connect the clutch wire to 87 and 30 terminal. it's a long process but without you guys help it's probably gonna take me longer. a friend of mine he's got a remote start as well i don't know what kind but all he has to do is apply the brake then the emergency brake then turn the ignition key OFF while the car is still running then exit the car without pressing any button from the remote and then after that the car will shut-off by itself. i guess with the viper 5901 you have to press the remote start button all the time. right? before you exit the car.
Thanks again. i am happy and now i can enjoy my alarm


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## jaggerwild

Glade to hear!

Yeah you have to hit the button for pit stop mode to work(while depressing the brake pedal), that is for if the car is cold and you want to heat it up while you run for a coffee. It allows you to continue to warm the auto while not being in it, after having driven it already.
So you used a relay to by pass the clutch wire, witch would make it work normal at all other times then right?


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## namyenruoj

that's right jaggerwild in a normal situation you have to depress the clutch pedal or else the car won't start. it's still doing it the same way even though i put a relay across.


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## jaggerwild

Cool!
I totally fergot the clutch pedal altogether (bangs head) Like I said, we just got the communications mixed up. Again just glade you got ur done, now go enjoy!! 
Make sure you use pit stop mode too!


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## namyenruoj

yah, I will.
watch for my other posting. Its about my car stereo this time.
I will make another posting for that.
Thanks a lot guys


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