# Incandescent vs energy-efficient bulbs



## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

So my dad was telling me about how much better those newer energy efficient light bulbs are compared to the older incandescent bulbs. Ditto. Then he said that I should start slowly phasing the incandescents out of my house and slowly replacing them with the newer energy efficient bulbs to save money. I said sure. But then he thought about it and said that depending on the amount of incandescent bulbs my home is still using, it would perhaps be more efficient and economic to replace them all even though the older ones still works, as the newer bulbs will quickly make-up for the old bulb's purchase costs in electrical savings. In other words, get rid of the incandescents even though they still work.

Is this reasoning logical?


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Also, I have 2 chandeliers like this in my home that each have several fixtures that need to be replaced. 



















My dad tells me that it's worth fixing it and keeping the chandelier since it's an antique is was built with the home while an electrician that came over for other work said that it would be wiser and less work to replace the chandelier with something else since the antique chandelier does not allow energy efficient bulbs. it takes 25w decor bulbs, which arent made in efficient forms

What is your opinion?


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

If they are not used alot, I would not change them. They make bulbs that will fit, but they will be longer.

I use both kinds, kitchen uses all fluorescent bulbs. Baths, bedrooms, living room, dining room do not.

BG


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

You can buy LED "décor" bulbs to fit most chandeliers.

Chandelier Bulbs : BulkLights.Com!, Energy Saving L.E.D. Lights, Light Bulbs & Holiday Decorations

Here is a neat calculator that lets you know when energy-efficient bulbs will pay for themselves:

Light Bulb Calculator

The default settings show an energy-efficient bulb paying for itself in 9 months and then lasting an additional three years.


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## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

The 2 main problems with the new energy-efficient bulbs is that:

*1: -* You can't use a standard 'Dimmer-switch' with them, they can be dimmed but you need to replace to dimmer-switch.

*2: -* After a while, it starts to take a few minutes for the bulbs to reach full brightness - After a year or 2 they're noticeably darker when 1st switched on, until the bulb has 'warmed up'.

Also, they're not that 'green' overall, OK so the end-user saves lots of electricity, compared to incandescent bulbs, but they're a lot more polluting to produce and need special disposal at the end of their life.

Several years ago, a neighbour dropped and broke a new 'energy-efficient bulb' in her kitchen, she'd read the disposal-instructions on the box, so phoned the local council for advice. The advisor told her to leave the flat immediately, then 10-15 minutes later 4 guys in bio-suits arrived and spent 30-40 minutes cleaning and scrubbing the floor and filtering the air in the flat - Total cost was about £2,500 (US$3,900), luckily she was a pensioner so wasn't charged for the clean-up.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

LED bulbs don't have the mercury that fluorescent bulbs do. However, some government agencies are _way_ too over-reactive when it comes to a broken fluorescent bulb. While several broken fluorescent bulbs in an enclosed area that is never cleaned up does pose a health threat, essentially all you have to do if you break a bulb is to open a few windows, wait a few minutes for the air to clear out then run the sweeper and wipe the walls and furniture with a damp cloth and dispose of the cleaning supplies outside. BTW, I have three degrees in biology, two in allied health plus military and civilian chemical response training so I'm not just speaking off the top of my head here.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I love how the government has been pushing these over the cheaper incandescent bulbs but what's going to happen in 5 years when they discover the landfills are full of them? Cleaning Up a Broken CFL: Detailed Instructions | Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs (CFLs) | US EPA


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

The amount of mercury contained in fluorescent bulbs is miniscule compared to the tons of the metal released yearly by coal-fired power plants and smelters (about 50 tons yearly from coal-fired US plants alone). Also, fluorescent bulbs are not new -- we have been using them since the 1940s.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

So the newer energy efficient bulbs aren't better? I know it's not white or black but I would just like to know whether I should start making the transition. Until now, I had only heard of the advantages of energy efficient bulbs.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Make the transition as needed. Except for LED the newer bulbs will not last longer in closed fixtures.


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## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

MPR said:


> LED bulbs don't have the mercury that fluorescent bulbs do. However, some government agencies are _way_ too over-reactive when it comes to a broken fluorescent bulb. While several broken fluorescent bulbs in an enclosed area that is never cleaned up does pose a health threat, essentially all you have to do if you break a bulb is to open a few windows, wait a few minutes for the air to clear out then run the sweeper and wipe the walls and furniture with a damp cloth and dispose of the cleaning supplies outside. BTW, I have three degrees in biology, two in allied health plus military and civilian chemical response training so I'm not just speaking off the top of my head here.


Those agencies would have had several fits if they'd seen how we (in the UK) used to dispose of old TV-screens years ago.... Place the dead screen in an old metallic dustbin next to an old table, place a very heavy metallic object (a 15lb 'bench-mount' vice was perfect) on the edge of the table next to the dustbin, stand clear and push the metallic object off the table into the dustbin, using a long pole i.e. broom-handle :grin:

*---***---*

Another thing to consider is that some folks have reported getting headaches and/or sore eyes from using the new CFL/LED bulbs because they're sensitive to the mains-frequency flickering at 50Hz (or 60Hz in the USA?) - You don't get that with incandescent bulbs.

To be fair and balanced though, the CFL/LEDs are now available in various 'colours' from 'Daylight' (very slightly blue) to pure white to misc. shades of 'warm' (very slight tinge of pink or orange added) - Although incandescents can appear to be white (mostly at the higher wattages), they still cast an orange/yellow light which can be a PITA if attempting precise colour-matching i.e. photography or graphics-work.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Corday said:


> Except for LED the newer bulbs will not last longer in closed fixtures.


If the energy efficient bulbs don't last longer than the older incandescent bulbs, why is there such a hype to make the transition?


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## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Mainly because they do use a fraction of the power that incandescents use.

Alternatively, if you're into conspiracy-theories etc,. it's down to business finances and profits. Here in the UK, our main power-companies freely gave out thousands of free CFL-bulbs to households. I've got a CFL in each room except my living room, which uses a 100W incandescent with a variable 'dimmer-switch', plus approx 2 dozen spare CFLs, all free from my power company.

The suppliers can offset their 'Carbon-Tax' by giving away the freebies.... :wink:


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

> Mainly because they do use a fraction of the power that incandescents use.


But if they don't last as long as the incandescents, doesn't it amount to the same...


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## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

On average, they last at least as long as incandescents, I've had most of my CFLs for at least 4-5 years and they're still going strong, only 1 bulb has died so far. Some are inside enclosed shades, some are in open shades.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

For the most part they last longer, I use them everywhere except over the kitchen counter or orders from the boss....................................


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Corday said:


> Make the transition as needed. *Except for LED the newer bulbs will not last longer in closed fixtures.*





Wrench97 said:


> *For the most part they last longer*, I use them everywhere except over the kitchen counter or orders from the boss....................................


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Closed fixtures are ones with no air flow to dissipate the heat like the ones found in showers and other areas that require water proof fixtures.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Would you recommend getting CFL (energy efficient bulbs) for the chandeliers in my pictures?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Tough call I don't have them and can't say sure that I have seen them. If you use it on a dimmer as I do that will need to be changed also.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I talked to several people who worked for major power companies and they all said the same thing that is you leave any incandescent, you will probably not see any savings.
I switched all at once about 3 years ago and saw almost 40% savings the next month.
Now I am total electric with an electric heat pump. In fact it coincided with controls falling off prices here in Pa and while everyone else's bills went up, mine went down substantially.

For some reason I can't figure out, using those bulbs in chandeliers gave us a lot more light in fact in our dining room I had to go out and get 9 watt bulbs because the room was so bright we didn't even want to be in there. And I found adapters for any of the chandeliers using odd type bulbs so I could use regular bulbs.

In most cases the Cfl bulbs do last a lot longer and I have replaced very few since I did this.


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

If the light is not on very much I would not switch.

BG


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Wrench97 said:


> Tough call I don't have them and can't say sure that I have seen them. If you use it on a dimmer as I do that will need to be changed also.


I don't use a dimmer. Those chandeliers are either simply on or off. Nothing fancy.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Basementgeek said:


> If the light is not on very much I would not switch.
> 
> BG


It's the main hallway and kitchen light. It's on all the time.

Edit: What do I do with all these brand new incandescent bulbs. I have them in reserve sitting in their cases in my garage ready to be used!


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I gave mine away.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Do you think that was wise? In other words, you lost money from giving them away but you're confident about making that money back with the savings from CFL bulbs?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Who knows how long they would have lasted anyway and with the big drop in my electric bill I am sure I made that back in a month alone.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

The heated tungsten filaments in incandescent bulbs radiate energy in wavelengths from infra-red to ultra-violet. Incandescent bulbs do produce light but this is only a small part of the radiation they produce, most of the energy is radiated as heat.

Now, you can use a metal other than tungsten that produces electromagnetic radiation at a much lower excited energy state and that is mercury. Unfortunately, mercury is a liquid at room temperature so you can't make a filament from it. You can, however, vaporize it. Excited mercury vapor by itself still produces UV wavelengths that are not visible but this can be rectified by coating the inside of the bulb with a phosphor, which then becomes energized itself and re-radiates lower-energy, visible light.

The reason that fluorescent bulbs must warm up is that it takes time for them to vaporize and excite the mercury and time for the phosphor to become fully luminescent. Fluorescent bulbs are, on average, four times as efficient as incandescent bulbs.

Now, we in computing know that there is another way of producing bright light and that is the solid-state LED, which is even more efficient (albeit costly) than the fluorescent bulb. LEDs, of course, don't have the mercury problems that fluorescent bulbs do at the end-user level. LEDs have come a long way since the old gallium-arsenide red ones and the price is coming way down. I've pretty much replaced all my flashlights with LED ones. My favorite flashlight is a $25 Smith and Wesson. However, I seem to mostly use $5 Dorcys more than anything as I've got a few stashed around in various drawers.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

I used to live in Portland, Oregon metro area, which is a pretty progressive place when it comes to things like recycling and being energy conscious. One day, along with my electric bill, I received a bunch of coupons for free fluorescent bulbs. I suppose that any burned-out bulbs could be dropped off at the recycling center but in the ten years I was out there I never had to replace any of the free ones I got. In fact, I've still got some of them in lamps down in the basement.

If you live in Oregon, you can still get free bulbs and other stuff:

https://energytrust.org/esaverkits/default.aspx


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

I still have 5 incandescent bulbs in my house......candelabra style base and $$$ to replace. I'm waiting on the bulbs to fail before replacing them.....these lights are rarely used. I stock up on the standard base CFLs when they are on sale (4 for $1)....the power company subsidizes the cost of the bulbs in an attempt to cut the demand for electricity. Never seen the candelabra type on sale.....:sigh:

I use a single 14W CFL to light most rooms in my house......the exceptions are living room and kitchen. The 5 light fixture over the table has 2 14W bulbs and that is sufficient.....5 would be overkill. The island has a 4 tube fixture with 40W tubes......I'm thinking about replacing the fixture with 6 keyless fixtures and using 14W bulbs for a savings of almost 50%. 

As stated earlier, just replace the bulbs and don't look back......the cost will be recouped very soon. Don't forget......winter is on it's way and lights will be on for a longer period of time. 

When replacing the outdoor bulbs, remember that the CFL doesn't come up to full brightness as soon as it's turned on.......need to think ahead and turn them on before needed. I turn the 'coach lights' on at dusk and leave them on all night.......no street lights out here.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

> I use a single 14W CFL to light most rooms in my house......the exceptions are living room and kitchen. The 5 light fixture over the table has 2 14W bulbs and that is sufficient.....5 would be overkill. The island has a 4 tube fixture with 40W tubes......I'm thinking about replacing the fixture with 6 keyless fixtures and using 14W bulbs for a savings of almost 50%.


I see that you are picking the wattage/brightness that you want. Doesn't that always rely on the label on the fixture (i.e. max 100W)?


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## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

The fixture-ratings are stating the incandescent power, 99.99% of the time - The CFL bulbs use approx 1/3rd the incandescent wattage, a 19W CFL=60W incandescent, and so on :wink:


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

What you want to pay attention to now is lumens, not wattage. However, lumens don't increase in a linear fashion with wattage in incandescent bulbs. The data below (source: lumennow.org) will give you an idea of what to look for in lumens when replacing your incandescent bulb.

40-watt incandescent bulb = 450 lumens
60-watt incandescent bulb = 800 lumens
100-watt incandescent bulb = 1600 lumens

For instance, a GE 26 Watt Energy Smart CFL outputs 1750 lumens so is a little brighter than a 100 W incandescent.

However, just because a CFC is technically as bright or brighter as measured by instruments may not mean that is subjectively as bright. The eye picks up light better and sees in color better at certain wavelengths and this relationship is non-linear too.

The Complexity of Image Analysis, Part 2 - Colors | TRIPLELIFT

Also, people with color blindness or other eye problems may see light differently than those with than "normal" eyes do. Even normal eyes may see color tones and brightness differently. Look at white page under ample light and then cover one eye and then the other eye. If I do this I find that one eye sees slightly cooler colors than the other eye does.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Different context I believe, the lumens is a way of measuring light output but the old max wattage rating for fixtures was more about heat and current draw limits for fixture.
CFL's draw less current so that should not be an issue and for the most part produce less heat except in a enclosed fixture.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

I was just putting a bulb into a garage door opener last night and was on the ladder, 75 Watt bulb in hand, when I say a label that said "max 60 W bulb." Since the cover was plastic I thought that I probably should heed the instructions and climbed down to find the right wattage bulb.

Brightness of incandescent bulbs does increase with wattage though because the intensity of radiation produced by an object is proportional to its temperature, as described by the Stefan-Boltzmann Law. Most people in America have just gotten used to how a 100 W bulb "looks" in relation to a 60 W bulb. This is why manufacturers of other types of bulbs have to use Watts as an equivalent rating even though the actual power used and heat produced is not the same as that of an incandescent bulb with the same luminosity.

It sort of reminds me of the way AMD used to label it's processors in Intel-equivalent units.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Hey I have one of those garage door openers with the hole melted through from a 75w bulb, I use 75w rough service in the drop light and figured it would be ok ................wrong.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

I was going through Rough Service 60W bulbs in Garage Door opener like crazy due to too much vibration. Mine takes two bulbs. 25W lasted but not enough light. Tried Fluorescent. It's lasted 2 years and still going.


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

I use whatever is the cheapest...and actually puts out white light. too many of the newer bulbs just dont put out enough light.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

CFL's do not work in mine, seems Craftsman/Chamberlain use electronic switching and CFL's do not provide the load needed to turn on.


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## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

CFL did not work in mine either . . bummer.

When we remodeled the kitchen this spring, they put 12 cans with LED's instead of the ugly cluster of Florescent lights it had . . makes all the difference in the world. Much more comfortable lighting and hardly any wattage at all


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## abilenewillson (Aug 20, 2013)

I suggest switch to energy efficient bulps. I remember us having a lot of those old bulbs, the room gets warm with those bulbs as well, not good at times O_O
Happy with energy savers!


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

I have a lot of incandescent bulbs of all formats because I had bought them previously in bulk. Is it advisable to just use them all and afterwards start buying CFLs and LEDs or should I just get rid of them all now?


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## bruiser (Jul 30, 2005)

I'd use them. If you have a fixture in which the lamp is hard to change, I'd put one of the newer types in it when the current one goes out.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

I'd keep them, they're much better at certain tasks than CFL's - instant bright light for very short periods they excel at.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

So there would be no harm done in using all the incandescents before I proceed to make the transition to CFLs? I know that newer CFLs and LEDs save more money but if I throw out these bulbs I bought just to buy newer more efficient bulbs, wouldn't I be wasting money anyway (the cost of buying those incandescent bulbs)?


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

The only harm done would be to your pocket book if you use incandescents for 'normal' use, used for brief periods for full illumination (think reaching for something in a dark cloakroom, etc., duration from a few seconds to a few minutes).

Best plan - buy CFL's for normal, longer duration fittings, as and when the current bulbs break or you hit on a good deal. Save your incandescents for those places suited to their energy consumption and instant lighting characteristics.

Sometime in the not-so-distant future, incandescents will no longer be available.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I tossed all mine and realized a 40% savings and in some cases noticed quite a bit more light (chandeliers).


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

In the latest issue of Consumer Reports, the top-rated energy-efficient bulb, with a 99 rating, is a $30 Samsung. However, the Great Value bulb from Wal-Mart got an 85 rating and only cost $1.25.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Sound advice satrow.


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## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

I got a wild hair and converted my office to LED this morning . . I had a mix on incandescent and CFL's . . Made a huge difference,

I really like the color and soft light they produce . . and absolutely no flicker like with the CFL's . . much cooler also!

Expensive . . $100+ but well worth it!


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

I never have had a flicker with CFL's

BG


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I haven't either had a flicker except before a bulb went out and my whole house is cfl.


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## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

It seemed to me that there was a subtle flicker that over time cause eye strain . . whatever it was I dn't get with the LED's.

I sure like the soft light they produce . . and I can use my X-10 again . . that would not work with the CFL's


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

X-10?


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## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

X10 and X10 Compatible - Smarthome


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## Dude111 (Aug 22, 2011)

Wrench97 said:


> I love how the government has been pushing these over the cheaper incandescent bulbs...


Yes they are pieces of crap....The light they produce IS NOT NATURAL looking and its not as bright!!

I will use traditional bulbs as long as possible!!!

MUCHO BETTER!!!


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## Confounded Also (Aug 19, 2015)

Old Rich said:


> I got a wild hair and converted my office to LED this morning . . I had a mix on incandescent and CFL's . . Made a huge difference,
> 
> I really like the color and soft light they produce . . and absolutely no flicker like with the CFL's . . much cooler also!
> 
> Expensive . . $100+ but well worth it!


Four year old thread bumped for no reason at all other than a silly irresponsible comment.

However, the prices for LEDs continue to fall and the variety of available styles continues to increase. I've been able to convert most of the house to LEDs for less than that $100 by watching sales and closeouts. Found a bunch of PAR16 4W (Equivalent to 50W halogens) LEDs a couple of weeks ago for a buck and change each. Also found some killer cool green and blue .5W nightlight style bulbs to use in specialty applications. 


X-10 devices are flaky though. Some of the low wattage LEDs in curio cabinets will flicker when on and don't go completely off for some reason, maintaining a slight glow when the X-10 module switches off.


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## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

Yep . . I gave up 0n X-10 and converted to IP controlled light controls . . much more stable


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Haven't switched to LED yet.....only made it as far as CFL. I bought 'daylight' bulbs last time......bright.....:thumb:


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## Dude111 (Aug 22, 2011)

Confounded Also said:


> Four year old thread bumped for no reason at all other than a silly irresponsible comment.


Im sorry buddy,i should have said more in my reply...

I just dont think these bulbs are as good as orgiinal ones and I have read they arent as safe...


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Dude111 said:


> I have read they arent as safe...


When screwing and unscrewing, hold the base, not the spiral lamp


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