# John Deere 111



## Snoopdogie187

Hi, I'm working on getting an old John Deere 111 working again.

I have no idea what is / was wrong with it. 

Right now it only seems to be missing a battery and the ignition key part. 

So I was wondering if for testing purposes, can I just use a car battery, and also, how do I get this to run without the ignition. 

I want to see how well this thing works without spending the money. I can't find a manual or wiring diagram for this mower at all. 

To even get the ignition will take at least a week really. I don't want to wait for that part just to test an engine. It does have a 6 terminal ignition, 3 positions.

Really just looking to jump the ignition or the starter somehow.

Also, this mower has been sitting for a few years (2 - 3 +) but when it was just left I think it was in a decent running condition (there was something that the carb went missing - but well it was on there when I looked, clean except for the dust that collected on it). I know I'm going to have to do belts, spark plug, oil. The carb chock and the other part that moves on it (sorry I don't know its name) still moves very freely. What else should I be looking for? I'm trying to get this to work before the grass starts to grow over here (which luckily it just snowed).

Thank you


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## MrChooks

:wave: Hi & welcome to TSF.

You should be able to "hot wire" the engine to make it start & run with a car battery. The trick is to ensure YOU DO NOT SHORT alternator wiring or x wire any ignition parts as these are both easily damaged by shorting and expensive to fix. :4-thatsba:4-thatsba

Have a look at this link to John Deere site and you should be able to get a wiring diagram that suits your mower and from that follow the wiring thru so you can work out which wire to connect to which. They have on line manuals mounted on their site so you might get lucky and not have to buy a parts or operators manual

http://www.deere.com/en_US/homeowners/services_support/manuals.html


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## Snoopdogie187

Hi, I actually have checked that site before, it doesn't have the operators manual, and the parts manual doesn't list any details except the part numbers (like it doesn't say which wire eve goes where). 

This is the part I need help on, I can spend the time to find out which wire is which, but to "hot wire" it, I don't know of what wires goes to what other wires / parts in order to do this.


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## MrChooks

:wave: OK - without a wiring diagram it's a little more difficult. 

But assuming that the main wiring hasn't been interfered with - and only the starter / stop switch has been removed - then the alternator lead should still be connected where it belongs on the solenoid or +ve battery lead. so you could install a car battery (_*BUT get the polarity right!!!!) *_in place of the orginal mower battery - afterall they are both just 12V batteries

You really need a multimeter to check which wire goes where to do this unless you are very experienced with auto (ride on mower) electrical systems.

So back to jumping your missing ignition switch. There will be typically 4 wires going to this switch.
1 is a +ve power supply from the battery
1 is the solenoid engage lead to energise the starter motor
1 is the -ve (ground) lead from the starter switch to the mower or motor chassis and
1 is the kill wire which goes to the ignition / magneto to stop the engine (this one may route thru a series of interlocked safety switches such as under seat switch, gear select / clutch etc.

To get the engine to turn over you will need to ensure the kill wire is not grounded (disconcerted) and that there is power to the solenoid until the engine fires. 

If your engine has a recoil (hand start) facility - then you could use that and provided the "kill wire" is not grounded the engine should start by hand even without the ignition switch functioning


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## Snoopdogie187

As far as I see, the only wires ever messed with where the battery cables (I guess over time they got woren out). The rest still have all the color coding, an wrapping on them. 

I don't have a multimeter right now, and probably can't get one for a little while. 
Just looking I might need one just to set up the switch, I really don't know which way the wires are but this is the part i need if it helps at all http://www.petessmallengine.com/images/430-110.jpg.jpg

I can try tracing the wires through the mower and seeing which wire goes to where. As far as doing anything soon, it also just started to snow and I'm working outside on it. 

It doesn't have a recoil, it is strictly elctric start, no control over the chock either. 

It is a very simle mower really. It doesn't even have a fuel pump, just uses gravity for that I think, which is probably going to be fun when it comes time to put some gas in it after its been dry for years.


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## MrChooks

:wave: OK Snoopdogie - looks like it's a car battery or nothing. 

So the +ve (usually red) lead goes from the +ve on the battery direct to the solenoid input side (should be easy to see). 

The -ve side of the battery goes to the lead that is bolted to the mower frame or engine body..(DO NOT GET THESE AROUND THE WRONG WAY :4-thatsba:4-thatsba)

Now let's see if we can work out the start switch wires. Again - make sure none of these are just dangling - you don't want any of them to accidentally short against the mower chassis - 

So, the starter motor circuit wire will go to the side of the solenoid somewhere on the engine block

There will be another wire to bring power up to the starter switch which will likely be connected to the solenoid also - BUT this one will be connected to the battery input side of the solenoid.

There will be a wire that goes to the frame of the mower to provide a ground / earth for the kill wire and you should be able to trace that back to where it is attached / bolted on to the mower or engine frame.

The kill wire itself will come from under or near the engine air cowl and will be connected to the primary coil on the magneto.

So, with the battery installed, and the kill wire not connected to, or touching the frame, if you briefly connect the starter motor solenoid wire to the key start +ve power input wire - the starter motor should go. Once the engine starts :tongue: - immediately disconnect the starter solenoid wire and make sure that it cannot accidentally touch the engine frame (else the starter motor will re-engage on a running engine and that will be the end of it )

To stop the engine - you should be able to simply touch the "kill wire" to the mower frame / chassis - that will take the coil out of action and the engine will stop.

For a typical wiring diagram and discussions on this topic - have a look at the recent postings on the "What engine should be in this Ariens mower" thread just below your thread on this site - here is the link

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f258/what-engine-should-be-in-this-ariens-mower-336075.html

You make a good point about the fuel tank and the machine having sat idle for years. If it were me I would go to the trouble of removing the fuel tank and giving it and its fuel delivery lines a really good wash out. Hot soapy water followed by a good rinse and thoroughly dry before reinstalling should eliminate the inevitable load of crud that is likely to have accumulated BEFORE it finds its way into your carb.


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## Snoopdogie187

Sorry, going to have to put this on hold, have to get to shoveling the snow away now. But this gives me some times to work on pulling the gas tank and lines off and giving them a cleaning. I don't expect them to be too bad, on this mower the tank is under the hood and has been partially covered the whole time, the lines where all attacked and it does have a fuel filter (a little one at that, but when its time for a new one, I might get a slightly bigger one meant for larger engines.)

I did want to wash the tank anyway, It is shaped just so I can't see the bottom of it at all. 

With the snow, probably have to wait a few days then I will check on the wiring, also give a look at the trans and try to check if anything seized up yet.

Any idea how to check if it is seized? I’m not sure of the trans on this, but it would never allow it to roll in N, we did get it to roll not long ago in gear, is there anything I should look for here? As far as I know, the belts could be broke, I can’t even see under this time yet, which may me realize I have had a floor jack sitting next to me this whole time… don’t ask, I forgot about it, I wanted to spray the jack down with some wd-40 before it got too rusty. 

So I will attempt the wiring issue and looking under once I can get rid of this snow (suppose to last all day) and go figure, this lawn mower has a snow plow attachment just sitting around in good condition, while we shovel the drive way by hand.


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## MrChooks

:wave: The mower should roll freely when in neutral - are you sure that you have selected neutral - maybe a dodgy gear selector or are there brakes in the system that you need to release.:4-dontkno


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## Snoopdogie187

Well I just jacked the mower up and I found out there are no brakes anyway. I did try selecting different gears, using the clutch, none allows it to roll free. I'm wondering if it is the type of axel it has. I can't remember exactly what type did this, but the mower when off the ground, when one tire is spun, the other tire rotates the opposite direction.
I seen this same thing in a car, and I think when you try to roll the mower one wheel is fighting the other and causing it just to lock up. 

I might be wrong if that isn’t normal to this lawn mower. Maybe the trans is suck in a gear, which isn’t the worst thing, just have to use the clutch more selectively.

Also is there a way to see if the deck is seized up? When I had it up, I couldn’t move any of the blades even a tiny bit. I’m not sure if this is from the belt, or they need to be freed up. I do know this mower has an electronic clutch for the pto, so I’m not really sure if that has anything to do with it because it just lets the belts always have tension. Well I guess I could play with the tensioner and put some lack into the belt and try to spin them again. This is more just being afraid of ruining the clutch but putting too much strain on it all of a sudden. It’s not like an older wheel horse I used that you could play with the clutch and only put partial pressure on it. 

Going to wait though, I’m already frozen from the snow outside.


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## MrChooks

:wave: The counter rotation of the rear wheels when jacked up is normal operation of the differential when the drive shaft is not turning - makes me suspect that the thing is locked in gear - you will need to find a way to disengage the gear train and get the thing into neutral.

Just one other thing - Are you sure that the machine has NO BRAKES - if that is the case -then there may be a "sprag bearing" in the drive train that will always prevent the mower from moving unless it is +vly driven through the drive train


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## Snoopdogie187

ok, well this part I will wait on. I want to see if I can get the engine to even turn over for now. Not as easy to get into this section yet and I do plan to take the thing completly apart. It has some rust on it (nothing major yet, just on the outside) that I want to sand down and fix up, so I planned to take it apart for that, but I wanted to make sure I could get it to at least run before that. 

For the no brakes, i think its something simple, either woren down or the spring broke type of thing. The thing is like my age if not older, so I'm sure the springs aren't too good on it. Sorry if I'm missing something, I have never worked on a lawn mower (riding at least) before and don't know how they really work. 

I'm not too worried, this mower was supose to be in working condition right before it was parked outside. That is my understanding anyway. From what I know it was sent to get fixed, came back, and then there was a fight between the person who fixed it and my grandparents (it was theirs, but never used it). As far as me and my parents ever heard it was that the carb was missing, which I can't say anything about. I took the carb off of it, cleaned it up a little, oiled it (was sticking just a little), and it seems to be all there as far as I know (just missing a few screws that hold the air filter onto it).


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## Snoopdogie187

Hi, I actually got the mower up and running (and drove about a foot - two front flat tires). New spark plug, oil, gas and completely cleaned the carb. I only had to set up the battery then jump the starter, nothing else was needed it seems (unless I did something miss something - it had one wire to the neg of the battery, I didn’t bother to put that on (it didn’t reach for how I had to jump it) so maybe that was the wire for the kill switch type of thing (sorry, forgot what it was called). Not sure if somehow not having the ignition bypasses this but that seems strange to me. 

The trans and axel works right, it goes forward and backwards, and in neutral doesn’t move, even without being on the clutch or brake.

Being I have never done this, I am confused about something. The way I got this, the air filter was off the carb and all the screws were missing. So it was just the carb on the engine and the linkage to the carb with the gas hose to it. Looking at the carb, there are 2 open holes that I'm not sure what they are for. One is on the bottom, right below the air filter, next to another threaded opening to hold the air filter cover on. The other opening is only partially opened, and it is on the side, almost by where the air filter attaches. It is on the side that is closest to the engine. 

I ask about those because when it runs, gas comes out of there (not sure if it is because there is no screws to help or more than screws are missing or also because I ran it without the air filter this time). 
If anyone has an idea, please let me know soon, I'm about to go get the screws for the air filter, which also, if anyone knows he size of them, let me know please, john deer only lists one of the sizes.

Thank you

Also, if you want, let me know and tomorrow I can post some pics of the carb.


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## MrChooks

:wave: Yes - if you can, post some pics of the carb.

Fuel leaking out of the carb is usually a sign of a messed up / jammed needle & seat (float valve). Might be as simple as carefully taking it apart and cleaning it. BUT fuel should NOT leak out of the carb :4-thatsba


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## Snoopdogie187

Fuel only leaks when it is running, when it is off, not even a drop. I think it is leaking out of the opening in the car when the gas gets sprayed into it.

Here are the pictures, and sorry, I didn't have any time untl last night.

If you want more pictures, let me know, these were the two that contained the points I was confused about.

EDIT: and yes, I know the fuel hose is set up bad, I don't expect it to last too much longer, it is already weak where it s badly bent, so when it goes, or gets closer to it, I plan to just put an elbow on and a new hose, and set it up differently.


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## MrChooks

:wave: Snoopdogie - The photos aren't that clear, but from the look of the openings - I am sure fuel should not be flowing out of these - one looks like it might be an atmospheric breather (air pressure in - NOT fuel out hole).

That your engine doesn't leak fuel when it isn't running maybe a result of a fuel solenoid shut off valve that stops the fuel flow when the engine isn't running.

My best guess is your carb has either or both of a stuck / leaking needle and seat / float valve and / or there are decayed gaskets in or around the fuel bowl in the carb. My only point of confusion here is that when the needle & seat / float valve sticks - it is usually very hard to get the engine to start / run :4-dontkno

As a new needle / float valve is usually inexpensive, I would suggest you VERY carefully strip and clean & treassemble and reinstall your carb (take it off the engine 1st) and if necessary replace the float valve. See if that stops the fuel leaks.


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## Snoopdogie187

Sorry, I should have made this more clean, I did clean the needle and float, that is working fine. What I think is happening is the gas that comes from the bowl into carb to be used is leaking out of the carb before it can get used. It wasn't a lot of fuel, but enough to see it a wet spot below the end of the carb. This was without the air filter on so I don't know if that matters.

I also know the engine doesn't have any fuel shut off valve, it actually just goes from the tank to a filter right to the carb.


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## MrChooks

:wave: OK - see if the fibre washers / seals around the outer lip of the fuel bowl or those around the bolt / jet that holds the bowl on are OK - if they are "beyond it" replacing them should stop the fuel leaks.

A simple test to see if the needle & seat / float valve are working correctly is to take the fuel bowl off, let the float valve fall to its lower limit and fuel should flow freely - then when you GENTLY raise the bowl to its upper limit - the fuel flow should stop completely - if it still drips / dribbles - then the valve seat or needle need replacing as they are not sealing properly


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## Snoopdogie187

Hi, 

I started up the mower and drove it around little today. What it seems like is the carb is flooding. It did also back fire I think once. It also seemed as if smoke was coming out of the carb a little, but I'm not sure if this was just gas burning up inside the carb before it can get to the spark plug. 

Here is a picture of the whole carb with the air filter



Top view 



If you can see, on the right side of the carb, it is all wet. Then gas drips out of the two holes in the bottom there. 

When I was testing it, I wasn't able to get the throtle much over ideal (even when it was set much higher). In order to get it to have a higher speed (I couldn't get it to run at the max) I had to let the engine go down to the point where it just barely runs, and then I was able to turn it up. Also when driving it, it died once, like it just got flooded out. 

I have cleaned the float and needle before, it would just pour the gas out when it was even off. 

Can this be the carb needs to be adjusted or can it still be the needle leaking slowly? I did test the needle right after I cleaned it and I didn't think I saw anything, but I will give it a second look. 

Also, for the top pic, this is what I was talking about, one hole is threaded, the other is just a hole, nothing there. Then you can't see here, is another opening. It just seems odd that these two are right by the air filter, but are just bringing air in without any filter.

EDIT: yea, those are vice grips right by the carb, it is to hold the throtle cable so I can adjust easier, just incase anyone was wondering what that was.


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## MrChooks

:wave:Snoopdogie - 

There shouldn't be fuel laying about in the air intake - but given the engine runs (even sort of roughly :sigh makes me think that you have the float valve sorted out in a good enough manner for now. 

My suspicions are that there is muck in the jets and / or that the idle and main jets and ports are dirty.

From the pics - it looks like your carb is a B&S Flo-Jet and I have attached the relevant pages from the B&S repair manual to allow you to do a strip and rebuild of the carb - and that is what I suggest you do.

You will need to take the carb off the engine and work on the bench for this - so mark where all the linkages go before removing and dismantling the carb.

The B&S repair instruction are quite detailed - so you should be able to follow them without too much trouble  and once you have the carb thoroughly cleaned out (including all the little holes in the jets) you can reset the main and idle jets as per B&S instructions on the last pages of the attachment.

When you are cleaning out the jets - DO NOT USE STEEL WIRE :4-thatsba:4-thatsba - use a plastic tooth pick to poke thru all the jet holes.

The B&S notes also show how to adjust and set the float level - which may be too high and this can explain rough running and excess fuel lying about in the bottom of the air intake.


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## MrChooks

:wave: Snoopdogie - I have found a good source of info on the John Deer web site - here is the link to the info on their 111 model series lawn tractors - hope this helps. It also has a page that covers all the parts for the carb and an exploded view that might help you with your carb strip & clean

http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/...s=:4&action=flip&irand=4723651830105293566#:4

Just type "111" into the box on the top corner of the page and then select the 111 model that matches yours and select carburettor (or whatever areas of your machine you are working on) and you will get all the info on parts and exploded views you need.


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## Snoopdogie187

Thank you, the pdf will actually be very helpful. I only cleaned the float and the needle becaue I wasn't sure of how to get to the rest/just kind of afraid that I might mess something up. 

I actually have found the john deere parts site before, and used that a little, I was actually using it to try to buy the screws I need for the air filter and just how some parts are supose to be set up. I don't fully trust this mower for being put together correctly (mostly from the last two people who worked on it). 

When I cleaned the bowl and float, they were horrible. It was just crud everywhere, and I had to work at getting it clean a little. Still not perfect but it was enough to get it working. 

And thank you for all your help so far, it has helped a lot.

I won't be able to take the carb off tomorrow, but Monday or Tuesday should work out to do that.


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## MrChooks

:wave:Good luck with it all Snoopdogie - you can bet if the bowl was full of crud - then the rest of the carb will have its share as well - so pay particular attention to the jets and port holes. 

The jets you can clean out with a plastic tooth pick (and be sure not to miss any holes - sometimes there are some along the side of the jet as well as the main one up the middle)

The ports can be cleaned with a pipe cleaner or something soft and flexible and / or some compressed air.

Don't rush the job-this is one where neatness counts :tongue:- be methodical about it & you'll be fine. 

Be gentle with the parts as they are a bit delicate and make sure you have a clean bench and a bowl / dish to put all the bits in so NONE go astray in the process


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## MrChooks

:wave: Snoopdogie - I have now had a close look at your photos and can see the wet / spilt fuel on the black panel below the carb. As it is all below the carb -I suspect that it is leaking out of a fuel line or the bowl or maybe the atmospheric breather hole. 

Before you take the carb off - sprinkle / smear some talcum powder around the bowl and the lower area of the carb and turn on the fuel for a while (you shouldn't need to have the engine running). Once fuel starts leaking again - see if you can follow the fuel trail over the talcum powder and that should lead you to where it is coming from.:tongue:

Once we know for sure where it is coming from - stopping the leaks should be easy:grin:


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## Snoopdogie187

Well, the last set of pictures were taking with the motor running, and you can actually watch the gas drip out of the two holes below the air filter. 

I will try with the talcum powder there just to see if there is any small leaks I miss while it is off. 

It also doesn't have a gas shut off, its too simple for that, or it did have one and it got mis placed. It was something I was thinking about adding on to it when I re-do the gas lines, along with the placement of the lines (it seems to get in the way there a little and I don't really trust it just bouncing around either)


And yea, when ever I take anything apart that is more than a few pieces, I will start off with a clean tabel (or floor dependig on the size) and keep it all organized so I can put each screw, bolt, piece back right where it came from. I learned to do this after a few things gave me a hard time with some screws not going back easily and then having to try another screw until it all finally went together. Not sure why that would happen, all the screws were the same, but I guess it might have been little differences in them I guess.


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## Snoopdogie187

The needle and the float work fine. I tested that. It doesn't seem to leak at all. 

I did clean the carb as well as I could then adjusted it. I have to leave the high and ideal speed adjustments all the way in it seems for it to run almost normal. The tips on both of those do look normal but is it possible they got worn down over time?

When running it as lean as possible, it doesn't spit out as much gas as it did before. It also runs smoother and up to a higher rev before dying out. I can get it to go about 90% (which I would settle for) before it dies out. The only problem is that at the higher rpms, the engine dies out under power (usually after a minute). Just like it is getting too much gas, usually I can quickly lower the speed of the engine and it starts running normal again. 

The only thing I may have wrong is the nozzle inside the bowl. I wasn't sure how far in that should go and if that is any type of adjustment or is it suppose to be all the way in?


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## Marlon494

I recently bought a 111H, and it doesn't run properly. I gutted the carb, cleaned, and reassembled everything. It runs when controlling the throttle and choke levers by hand, but someone had put on homemade linkages improperly. I need to remanufacture the linkages and springs so I can properly adjust the needles. However, the parts catalog does not give any help in the proper assembly or operation. Can anyone offer pics or insight to how these components should go together? I do have the springs, but I'm not sure where they are supposed to attach since they weren't assembled properly when purchased. Thanks for any help.


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## Snoopdogie187

Hi, to best help you it is best if you create a new thread of your own for each problem (unless they are related), and then wait until someone sees that. That helps to keep the forum more organized when it comes to see what questions need to still be answered and then again when people look up a question to see if it can help them.

I would also sugest taking a picture for us to see in case there is any dfference that you haven't noticed and to over all just to help the people answering your question.

I do still have the john deere 111 which has a 11 hp b&s engine in it from the 70s or 80s i think, so if it is simular to that, I can tell you how to set up the linkage as to what I think is correct and what worked for me.

You might also be able to start to see how mine i set up in the pictures above. I don't want to say to set it up a certain way and then have it be wrong for you. If your carb and cable area looks like that, let me know, I can describe it better or try getting better pictures. (the picture that has the vice grips in it (they were to hold the cable since it didn't have anything on it) behind the vice grips is the linkage for the throtle, and the lower one was the chock.)


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