# Best certs to get foot in the door.



## Xeneth (Mar 11, 2009)

I am taking my CCNA in a couple of weeks, and looking for a couple others to make myself more marketable. Some sites suggested Net+, though will not net anything useful out of it, will help pad resume. I am also interested in linux+ or redhat cert (have not decided).

What are a few good ones for someone who want to be an admin of servers or networks?


----------



## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Xeneth said:


> What are a few good ones for someone who want to be an admin of servers or networks?


That depends. How much IT work experience do you have?


----------



## Xeneth (Mar 11, 2009)

I really have no real experience. I have my home set-up with cisco 851w (ios 12.4), and a c2950 switch, but only real work experience I have is in a call centre for ISP end users. 

In my area, it's becoming obvious that I am not allowed to get experience unless I have experience. The main reason I started with CCNA instead of going the A+, net+, ect. is because I know it will get the attention of those who would otherwise pass me by due to the inexperience in a business. I do have a BSIT with a GPA ending with 3.65/4.0 which I try to point as reference to my abilities. But without the ability to say "I worked with Cisco xxxx" or "XXXX Server", I am having hard time. That's why I am looking for way's to pad my resume.


----------



## Xeneth (Mar 11, 2009)

I could not find a means to edit. 

I should not say I have no work experience. I can point out that working in the call centre, there where times I used telnet into the system to reset a modem of check errors, and I could see how the modem and CMTS worked with each other. I can even point out when I found something that prevented a queue. 

Issue is, that can easily be seen as second hand experience. Nothing with maintaining.


----------



## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Xeneth said:


> I really have no real experience. I have my home set-up with cisco 851w (ios 12.4), and a c2950 switch, but only real work experience I have is in a call centre for ISP end users.
> 
> In my area, it's becoming obvious that I am not allowed to get experience unless I have experience. The main reason I started with CCNA instead of going the A+, net+, ect. is because I know it will get the attention of those who would otherwise pass me by due to the inexperience in a business. I do have a BSIT with a GPA ending with 3.65/4.0 which I try to point as reference to my abilities. But without the ability to say "I worked with Cisco xxxx" or "XXXX Server", I am having hard time. That's why I am looking for way's to pad my resume.


Unfortunately, that is not true. It will not get the attention of those who will otherwise pass you by, because certification is not a substitute for experience. Gone are the days that employers would hire based on the merits of certification alone. What happened was that employers would hire someone certified without experience, then discover that the new employee wouldn't know how to DO anything ("...but...but... that wasn't on the exam!"). Too many employers got burned... and they collectively learned from the experience.

You might say, "But the CCNA will help me get my foot in the door, right?" No, not really. In fact, it can actually hurt you more than help you, because entry-level jobs don't have anything to do with Cisco router administration. Employers with entry-level jobs just want someone to do an entry-level job... not someone who wants to be a router admin. Those employers are going to take one look at your certification and say one of two things: 1) you're likely to be more expensive than a plain-old entry-level tech, and 2) you're more likely to be a flight risk - someone who will leave as soon as a router admin job comes along... leaving them to find, hire, and train someone all over again. If you can't get hired for entry-level jobs due to _looking_ overqualified, and you can't get hired for anything more advanced due to a lack of experience, you suddenly find yourself at a situation where you can't get hired.

For what it's worth, education doesn't equate to experience either. Yes, your GPA makes you look attractive to employers because it is clear that you can learn things well. And yes, your degree makes you look attractive to employees because it means you can stick to and complete an extended course of study. But it's not _experience_, and once you've been in IT a couple of years, you'll completely understand what that means. 

Still, you're getting _some_ entry-level IT experience in the call center. The typical career progression for an IT admin is entry-level IT job > desktop admin > server admin > network admin. If you want to be a server admin or a network admin, you need to work your way up the IT career ladder one step at a time. What I would recommend you do is to get a desktop administrator job where you can administer PCs in a domain environment, preferably where you can also help the server admins do some light server administration. After you've got a little server admin experience, you can pick up the relevant server admin certifications (MCSA or MCTS, then MCSE or MCITP as your experience increases) and transition to a full-fledged server admin position... preferably where you can also help the network admins do some light network administration. Rinse and repeat: after you've got a little network admin experience, you can pick up the relevant network admin certifications (CCENT/CCNA, then CCNP as your experience increases). 

With the exception of entry-level certifications, such as the A+, Network+, and Microsoft client certifications, certification is designed to show employers what you ALREADY have experience doing... NOT what you WANT to be doing. If you want to look good to entry-level employers, you need to pick up entry-level certifications - the A+, Network+, and Microsoft client certifications (MCP on XP, MCTS on Vista, and/or MCTS on Win7).

Hope this gives you some good perspective on the matter.


----------



## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

what he said ^

certs are designed to show your experience level.

The CCNA is designed for someone who has experience (in a job not a lab) of supporting and maintain cisco devices where as the N+ is designed for someone who has a little experience and wants to progress into networking.

Having certs that are beyond your experience level will make emploeyrs think a couple of things and these are:- once this guy gets experience he will leave for better money and therefore we will have to start the recruitment process again which is expensive or they will think this:- This guy has no experience but high level certs he must have cheated to pass.


----------



## New2Tech (Nov 9, 2009)

Great advice, Boson! I am working on getting those entry level certs this year so I can hopefully land an entry level IT job. I am 38 yrs. old and making a career change, but I know with hard work and some luck I should be able to make a way into the IT world. Better late than never!


----------



## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

New2Tech said:


> Great advice, Boson! I am working on getting those entry level certs this year so I can hopefully land an entry level IT job. I am 38 yrs. old and making a career change, but I know with hard work and some luck I should be able to make a way into the IT world. Better late than never!


Absolutely! 

Glad to help.


----------



## Xeneth (Mar 11, 2009)

Thanks for the advice Boson. It's a bit of a downer thinking all the work I'm putting in will not get me anywhere. I think there's a bit more to it. My CCNA is on the 6th, and I have no doubt I will pass. I think I'll still try it, at the least will give me something to show I can do it.

I did get into discussion on an IRC chat. One guy swears up and down the comptia certs are worthless because they are not vender specific. Like how companies get discounts with cisco for having cert employee's, or MS for being gold partner. It does make some sense, though I may still go for it because I can use ccna to renew all the comptia certs. May still get them for bragging rights since I get 8 free cert exams through my school for MS line.

Something did come up when talking to him. It's seeming that if you register with LPI and Novell, when you pass both Linux+ exams, you will automatically obtain a few Novell certs. While nothing outright say's that, I do find a few supporting facts leading me to believe this.


----------



## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

Maybe you should ask this guy a question like this:- what is the point in being trained on a specific system when 99% of your work when you start an IT career will be working with a vast array of technologies not just one?

This is why getting a vendor neutral cert like the A+ and N+ are a good idea. When you get your first IT job unless your boss is a bit of a retard you will not be placed in an area where your looking after one specific type of technology because you dont have the experience to do that.

I realise you have the call centre experience but that does not mean you can now administer cisco kit, you need to be trained in that area first.


----------



## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Xeneth said:


> Thanks for the advice Boson. It's a bit of a downer thinking all the work I'm putting in will not get me anywhere.


It will get you somewhere: knowledge. And that's always useful. But it won't magically cause employers to believe that you can administer networks when you've got limited IT experience.



Xeneth said:


> I think there's a bit more to it.


A bit more to what?



Xeneth said:


> My CCNA is on the 6th, and I have no doubt I will pass. I think I'll still try it, at the least will give me something to show I can do it.


I have no doubt that you can pass, either. Whether you can pass the exam or not has never been the question. 



Xeneth said:


> I did get into discussion on an IRC chat. One guy swears up and down the comptia certs are worthless because they are not vender specific. Like how companies get discounts with cisco for having cert employee's, or MS for being gold partner.


Companies don't get discounts with Cisco for having one extra CCNA on staff. And unless Microsoft's changed something, they can only count two certified individuals, and only their highest certification counts, which will give them a whopping SIX points (three points each) out of 120 needed.

But let's assume for a second that you're right, and companies DO hire individuals for their certifications. Think they're gonna hire someone certified without experience _just for a discount_, or will they hire someone certified WITH experience who can administer their networks?

I'll tell you what I told another guy recently on here: it sounds as if you don't really want advice. Instead, you simply want someone to agree with your decision that you've already made. I'm not gonna lie to you just to make you feel better or give you false hope that will cause you to spend more time and more money and make it HARDER to get employed because you look overcertified. That does you no good, and I'd be to blame.



Xeneth said:


> It does make some sense, though I may still go for it because I can use ccna to renew all the comptia certs. May still get them for bragging rights since I get 8 free cert exams through my school for MS line.


The CCNA will not renew your CompTIA certs. Where did you hear that from??



Xeneth said:


> Something did come up when talking to him. It's seeming that if you register with LPI and Novell, when you pass both Linux+ exams, you will automatically obtain a few Novell certs. While nothing outright say's that, I do find a few supporting facts leading me to believe this.


If either you or he had sufficient experience, you'd both know how nonexistent Novell is anymore. Food for thought.

Do what you will; it is your decision, and nobody can make it for you. I can only arm you with information. I wish you the best of luck in your career!


----------



## Xeneth (Mar 11, 2009)

> A bit more to what?


As you stated in another post, certs are to have documentation to show what you can do. When I said a "bit more to it" meaning a bit more then "no experience no job". From that aspect, no experience means you cannot get experience.
I never claimed that that I will walk in and expect the best position right off, those are my final goals for now. I have already been told that the lack of cert was the only thing preventing me from being offered a job I applied for, so the CCNA is where I started for when that position opens up agian and I want it.



> The CCNA will not renew your CompTIA certs. Where did you hear that from??


It's on comptia site. If you prove that you passed a non-comptia cert related to your highest cert, with the CE program, you will get a renewal of your cert. CCNA-CCIE is listed as acceptable cert for A+, Net+, and Linux+. So give proof that you pass cisco, and your CompTIA's are renewed with that means.



> If either you or he had sufficient experience, you'd both know how nonexistent Novell is anymore. Food for thought.


While there may not be a huge market for novel specifically, I can imagine there are quite a few companies using legecy devices. And since there is no additional cost of time or money other then registering, It can be used to show adaptability. I just brought that up for an information piece.


----------



## Xeneth (Mar 11, 2009)

Mis-Quoted. greenbrucelee said As you stated in another post, certs are to have documentation to show what you can do.


----------



## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

> I am taking my CCNA in a couple of weeks


According to the profile here, you all ready have CCNA and others:

Tech Support Forum - View Profile: Xeneth

Advice was asked, advice was given. Feel free to follow or ignore.
You received good advice on what most companies do , but maybe not all positions.Why would a company look outside, for help, not promote within first?

I see no reason for keeping this post open.

BG


----------



## Xeneth (Mar 11, 2009)

Basementgeek said:


> According to the profile here, you all ready have CCNA and others:
> 
> Tech Support Forum - View Profile: Xeneth
> 
> ...


Did that a while ago.. I think the reason is because I was trying to show training and would not let me make a separate line. fixed.


----------



## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Xeneth said:


> As you stated in another post, certs are to have documentation to show what you can do.


No; certs are to have documentation to show what you _already have experience doing_. There's a difference, and it's that 10-letter word starting with an "e".



Xeneth said:


> When I said a "bit more to it" meaning a bit more then "no experience no job". From that aspect, no experience means you cannot get experience.


Sure you can: by getting an entry-level job that doesn't require experience. You gain experience in that job, then get a job with more responsibility so you can gain more experience. Lather, rinse, repeat.



Xeneth said:


> It's on comptia site. If you prove that you passed a non-comptia cert related to your highest cert, with the CE program, you will get a renewal of your cert. CCNA-CCIE is listed as acceptable cert for A+, Net+, and Linux+. So give proof that you pass cisco, and your CompTIA's are renewed with that means.


My apologies; I did not know they had recently added those.



Xeneth said:


> While there may not be a huge market for novel specifically, I can imagine there are quite a few companies using legecy devices. And since there is no additional cost of time or money other then registering, It can be used to show adaptability. I just brought that up for an information piece.


Adaptability with what? With a dying server platform you've never administered? No... it shows that you're collecting pieces of paper. In the industry, we call that "paper certified", and it's not a good thing. But please, don't take my word for it. Look here, and here, and here, and here.

Again, if you don't want to take the advice, that's fine. I simply offer the perspective of someone who has reviewed resumes and interviewed people for IT positions. Hopefully it will make a difference in your (or somebody else's) job search. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Xeneth (Mar 11, 2009)

Off topic:
BosonMichael, did I insult you in any way? Your posts seem hostel.



> it sounds as if you don't really want advice





> If either you or he had sufficient experience





> There's a difference, and it's that 10-letter word starting with an "e".





> Adaptability with what? With a dying server platform you've never administered?





> Again, if you don't want to take the advice, that's fine.


I never refuted anything you said, and only thing I think I said that had any negativity was "I think there's a bit more to it.", and that was in reference to the "It's a bit of a downer thinking all the work I'm putting in will not get me anywhere"

If the issue is that I am not taking your word for it, I'm not. It's nothing personal, it's how I work. I always verify with multiple sources, even when it's my own opinion.


----------



## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Xeneth said:


> Off topic:
> BosonMichael, did I insult you in any way? Your posts seem hostel.


No, not at all. But it is clear that you're not fully taking my advice on board (note - I didn't say "you're not accepting my advice"... I'm saying "you're not getting what I'm saying"). 

You misquoted me regarding the purpose of certifications, so I merely set you straight on what I actually said. You keep saying that you believe employers will like the trail of paper you are gathering, so I provided links to the contrary. And I gave a disclaimer that "if you don't want to take the advice, then that's fine" specifically to avoid the impression that I am being hostile because you aren't blindly believing me (which is NOT my goal). I'm trying to be helpful, not hostile. I wouldn't spend a bunch of time on this post if I didn't care, bro. 



Xeneth said:


> I never refuted anything you said, and only thing I think I said that had any negativity was "I think there's a bit more to it.", and that was in reference to the "It's a bit of a downer thinking all the work I'm putting in will not get me anywhere"


Actually, you are refuting what I said when you say, "I talked to this dude on IRC, and he says something entirely different."

I don't think you're being negative towards me, Xeneth. I just don't think you believe me.



Xeneth said:


> If the issue is that I am not taking your word for it, I'm not. It's nothing personal, it's how I work. I always verify with multiple sources, even when it's my own opinion.


That's precisely why I provided other links to back up what I've said. By all means, do your research. If my posts do nothing else than to get you to realize that there may possibly be a flaw in your plan, then I've done my job. The rest is up to you!


----------



## Xeneth (Mar 11, 2009)

The IRC chat was not refuting anything. It was another matter I was asking opinion on. I was originally asking about compTia stuff so I was under an impression that it may make a difference in the first place. 
As for the misquote, I saw that and tried to fix, but the time laps prevented it so I replied to it.


----------



## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Your public profile has not been changed to reflect that you do not have the all the certifications you say you, but there is no rule at TSF against it.
Padding is allowed. We accept, with out question, any certification a person post. It is assumed they are being truthful.

Since you have formed your own opinion on the advice given, this post is closed.

BG


----------



## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

There's a difference between experience in a lab and messing about at home to working in a real job where your boss is breathing down your neck, people are phoning you every 10 seconds calling you a ******* and your company is loosing money because your systems can't communicate with each other.

When you have spent 12 hour re-cabling a server rack whilst eating cold chinese food, thats when you have experience


----------

