# Motherboard Question...



## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

more refurbishment than building from scratch; so i appologise if this is the wrong category, but it seemed closest to my query.

i have a pakcard bell Quasar (MS6786) V1.0 µATX motherboard with an AMD Athlon XP 2800+ processor and im wondering if i could upgrade the processor? 

Is it as simple as swapping it for a faster one? I assume the motherboard has a maximum ghz it can work with but im not sure what that is either.

thanks for any help x


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## Rashiki (Sep 29, 2005)

The chipset manufacturer states that the chipset will only handle up to a 2800+, but the specs for the comp from packard bell state that it can handle processors with a 400mhz fsb. BUT it has a little asterisk next to it and doesn't give a footnote or anything for it... so if you want to upgrade, keep the old one if it doesn't work.

Nothing will get damaged if it's not supported, so don't worry about changing them. You could POSSIBLY go to a 3000 or 3200, but at those speeds with that old of technology, it's not going to make a difference anyway.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

I think you will want a whole platform upgrade. I would look at some inexpensive socket 939 boards which will support dual core Athlon X2 processors and the DDR memory you currently have.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

yeh i thought that mightve had to be the case matt

i dont want to upgrade it by a small amount because itll need upgrading in a flash again. Id rather overhall it, ive had this pc a while now anyway.

how would i get a motherboard that fits the case? my pc has 2 usb ports on the front of the tower, handy for cameras and what not. it would be preferable to JUST swap the motherboard and processor and keep everything else the same.

rekon its do-able?

thanks


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

It really depends on what your budget is. If it is lower, you might just want to look at something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131517

This:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103053

This:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127296

And This:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835133009

Note the above heatsink is not AM2 compatible! It will work with Socket 939 but not AM2.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

thats a 2.2 ghz one which i only slightly faster than my 2

would it be worth upgrading to that one or does the dual core make it seem much faster?

thanks

p.s youve linked a new graphics card, wouldnt my recently purchased radeon x1650 do?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

The dual core Athlon 64 X2 will be much faster. Trust me. :wink:

Remember, it is very possible and even probable that a slower clocked processor with a different architecture than a faster clocked processor will have better performance. The architecture makes a huge difference in performance. You can only use the clock speed to compare performance between two processors with the same architecture, FSB, and cache.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

ok, so thats on the wishlist then.

what about my front usb ports, how do i keep them? theyre very handy.


also, does that motherboard support my current type of memory? no point me buying a hold load more to suit a new motherboard is there.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

They will likely use a standard 9-pin header which means you can plug them into the new motherboard.

As for the video card, is it PCIe or AGP? If it is AGP like I suspect, then you can't use it. If its PCIe, then you can use it.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

think thats it; 

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=107&Itemid=27

i think it is agp could i get a different board with an agp?

saves gettin a new gfx card


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

is that a good HD?

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/122459/rb/0

looking to upgrade to a bigger one, im currently on an 80gb

what does the cache and rpm speed matter/is this one good in those areas?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

The X1650 has both AGP and PCIe versions. Unfortunately it is hard to to find socket 939 motherboards with AGP like the Asus A8V (-E, Deluxe) which were good boards. You will have to look around a bit.

But first, can you take a picture of the card so we can determine if it is AGP or PCIe? BTW if it was installed in your computer with the Athlon XP, I can almost guarantee it is an AGP card.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

yes its in my computer now.

im 99% sure its AGP aswell to be honest.

does it have to be a 929 slot board then? what about other types?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

You could get a socket 754 board, but the major problems with that is you have no dual channel support and no dual core processor support.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

hmmm

think ill put the upgrade plans on hold for the moment. i think a bigger hard drive and maybe a vista upgrade will come first then ill see how it runs


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

If you have only 512 MB of RAM, I would upgrade to 1 GB before going to Vista.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

yeh, ive got a gig. any other reccomendations?

is it even worth upgrading [to vista]?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

If you are looking for the eye candy, then upgrade, but other that and some games that are DX10 only Vista doesn't offer many improvements.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

is this deal what im after/any good?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....7710&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab=Watching

it seems it to me but...


are any of these what i want? am2 is 949 socket isnt it? 

http://www.tekheads.co.uk/s/departm...erValue=ATX&filterId=1&filterValue=Socket AM2


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

At this point if you will be replacing your CPU, motherboard, and RAM, you might as well go with a socket AM2 or AM2+ rig. These are different from socket 939.

How much are you willing to spend?


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

well,

baring in mind id need to replace my graphics card aswell...

also id MUCH prefer a board that could take the ram ive already got, to reduce the price a bit.

but for motherboard, cpu and heats stuff and new gfx card about £200?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

The eBay link you posted looks like it has good quality components. What kind of games will you be running?


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

well,

ive recently got the orange box and erm...kane and lynch. one of the main reasons for updating though is to speed up my render times for my CAD packages such as cinema 4d.

the ebay link is a bit on the expensive side, because that doesnt include gfx does it?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

No, it doesn't include graphics unfortunately. For £200 you should be able to get a new setup though even if it is AM2. Do you think you could get by with only 1GB of RAM?


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

well, if i were to recycle my current RAM i might consider extending it to 
2gb, or whatever i can afford but i wouldnt be able to afford more than 1gb if i were buying new.

i would like to get the graphics seperate aswell, so i can update if needs be in future [not an onboard one].


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

the questions i was supposed to answer at the begining of the thread;

Budget: £200

Brands: any that are reccomended

Multitasking: yes. Music/cad packages/internet/word processing 

Gaming: slightly, half life orange box/kane and lynch

Calculations: cad rendering?

Overclocking: never done it, so probably not.

Storage: ive got a newly bought 160gb HD id recycle

Legacy Support: ps/2 mouse and keyboard?

Operating System: xp 

Case: got a case id recycle, ATX i think it is

Accessories: no, recycled

Recycled Components: 160gb hd, monitor, case, memory [if compatible], speakers, mouse, keyboard.

Monitor: got one

Stores: any that are recommended

Location: england


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Take a look at these:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-071-MS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=805
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-201-AM&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat=803
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-108-CS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=813
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-073-PC&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=404


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

looks very resonable!

is that all id have to buy? Ive got arctic silver.

also, are there enough of them power leads that power the hard drive,cd rom and such like? because i have 2 cd/dvd drives and a hard drive and that gfx card needs fan power doesnt it?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

You should be all set. What power supply do you have?


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

hmm, ill try and check.

happy new year by the way!

edit; cant tell without opening it up and im not at home. What would be the minimum wattage or whatever?


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

ive noticed the reviews say that the motherboard has no fans, will this be a problem? i think the current board i have has no fan but there's a large about 3/4 inch diameter fan in the power supply.

thanks


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Passive chipset cooling is actually a good thing because it means a) less noise and b) there are no moving parts that can fail and cause the chipset to overheat. I tend to believe that if a chip can be cooled well with a reasonable passive cooling setup that it should because there is less of a chance of something failing and causing the chip to overheat.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

so basically the power supply fan will do the job?

have you got any recommendations as to what kind of power supply id need if my old comp's one isnt sufficent?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

No, you will need other cooling fans. For the power supply take a look at this:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-062-AN

What areas of the case can you put fans in?


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

erm, where are options?

ive never fitted any fans in cases or whatever and dont really know anything about it, I should inspect the case really. Ill do it when i get home on thursday.

that power unit is quite expensive. Hope i can salvage my old one! haha


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

If it was the one that came with the case then unfortunately you shouldn't use it to power a high end card like the one I posted. Thats why I chose that unit above, it is high quality and will provide clean and stable power to the system.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

so id need to get that and some fans for the case?

would it help if i took photos of the case to assess where to put fans/how many id need/can have?

cheers x


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

ive noticed that motherboard has sold out, should i persuit that one or do you have any other reccomendations?

just wondering incase thats not as important maybe some of the other parts


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

I chose that board because it was one of the few AM2 boards that uses all (or at least mostly) solid capacitors. If you can find it, the Gigabyte M57SLI-DS4 is also a good board, but I haven't been able to find it many places.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

what benefits does that have? out of interest. Ive found it for roughly the same price on a different site, ill stick with it.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

if i took case photos could you help me establish what fan stuff id need to get?

im hoping to try and buy it all next week you see

thanks x


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

here they are incase you can help, anyway.


```
[IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/pc%20pics/STP63692.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/pc%20pics/STP63691.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/pc%20pics/STP63690.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/pc%20pics/STP63689.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/pc%20pics/STP63688.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/pc%20pics/STP63687.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/pc%20pics/STP63694.jpg[/IMG]
```


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Unfortunately it doesn't look like you have any place to add a fan, although you can easily mod the case to allow for a nice 120mm rear exhaust fan and maybe put an intake fan on that bottom grill since the case has tall feet.

Remember, passive cooling relies on the airflow of the case fans, so you need to have some case fans and the PSU doesn't count. Many people who use water cooling actually need to have fans on their chipsets and other heat sources with passive heatsinks because of the lack of airflow in typical water-cooled systems.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

so thats 2 fans?

where is the exhaust fan going, more specifically? 

[like one of them? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Antec-120mm-SmartCool-Thermal-Sensor/dp/B00009KH0C ]

and the intake fan goes on the grill underneath?

[i cant find any intake fans, any reccomendations on where to buy one and what size to opt for?]

thanks x


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

A fan is a fan and you turn it in the direction you want it to go in. I would get that and then its 80mm cousin..


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

sorry if it seems like im asking stupid questions, just want to make sure i get all the right bits.

what do you think of these two;

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-005-SY&tool=3

and that one?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-003-AF&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=819

also, when you say 'can easily mod the case' what do you mean? do i need a grill to let the air in/out or do i just stick it onto the inside without any hole to the outside?


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

will i need them aswell?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-001-AF&tool=3


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

All of those look good. I would look for a higher RPM 120mm fan unless you need the fan to be really quiet (the fluid dynamic bearing fans are very nice and are quiet but don't spin very fast.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

will the processor be ok without the fan on top?

I never even knew passive cooling existed before you suggested it. Do you use it?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Yes, my entire chipset on my board is passively cooled. But for passive cooling you should have at least two fans working in a push-pull configuration. The CPU heatsink usually uses active cooling though with its own fan.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

so i throw the 120 and the 80mm fans where shown on the picture?










and do i make a grill where the 120 will go? [drill a few lines of holes where the fan will be]

also does the processor need thermal paste without a heatsink/fan?


oooooooo
oooooooo
oooooooo
oooooooo


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Pretty much. When you get your new CPU heatsink/fan you will need to put thermal paste between that and the CPU.

When you are drilling the holes for the fan, makes sure you use a good sized drill bit so that there is plenty of room for air to move through.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

wait, so i need a heatsink/cpu fan aswell as these 2 passive cooling ones?

i thought you meant passive cooling as in, you didnt need a processor fan


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

What I meant was the chipset was passively cooled. This means the northbridge and southbridge have big blocks of copper sitting on them and don't need a fan because the copper heatsinks do the job just fine. The CPU fan you get with the processor however does include a fan and some thermal pads applied. That almost always needs a fan. And yes, all CPUs since the first Intel Pentium have needed heatsinks.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

The sink and fan come with the processor dont they? Ive just checked. 

Well, i think that might be it! Ive got the actual motherboard, so after ive completed some work ive got to do this week ill order it on the weekend and fit it all next week!

Hopefully i can reply to this thread on it rather than from someone elses comp asking you were ive gone wrong :sigh:

thanks again x


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Yes, they do if you purchase a retail CPU (which I almost always recommend). Good luck.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

Ive got this plug thats like a doctors stethiscope e.g. it has one mains plug and two power connectors that sort of fork off in the middle so i can use the 1 plug to power 2 things [ive got it currently powering my monitor and my psu in my comp].

Will this lead be ok for my new build? This might sound very stupid but im not sure how it works you see. Will it lose out on any potential power in the psu because its powering the monitor aswell?

ive had it for about 5/6 years and i think its been fine.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

No, that shouldn't be a problem. I have only seen extremely high end rigs have problems with blowing fuses or tripping breakers in houses. These computers pulled over 1 kilowatt of power from the outlet.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

once again matt, thanks!

ill let you know how i get on in the next few days


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

No problem.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

done it!

went very well. the only snag was the motherboard in my old case was a microATX so the new motherboard didnt fit the case i had lined up for it but i just bought a new one and it was easy from there.

can i paste some info or anything to check that its all installed ok?

also, ive got an overclocking utility, shall i take advantage? ive never dabbled in overclocking but is it worth me having a go? Also what are the reccomended temperatures and stuff, check all my fans are doing what theyre supposed to.

cheers x


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Hold off on the overclocking until I get a better idea of the cooling situation. What case did you get? How many fans and what size(s)?


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

ive got a rear 80mm one [which you ok'd] a big 120mm one on the side, the psu fan, the heatsink one and theres a fan on the graphics card.

the little temperature utility says right now with music on and the internet im running at 46 c

atx size case its a whoppa 15.5 x 40.5 x 45.5 cm


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Do you have the 80mm rear as an exhaust and the 120mm side as an intake?

If so, then you should be good. That is a good temperature for a 65W processor with the AMD stock cooler, although I would personally look into a better CPU cooler if you want to really overclock. For now though that processor will be very fast at stock speeds.

Your case cooling is fine but I am not a big fan at all of AMD's stock coolers. IMO even the Intel stock coolers are much better. As I said, I would personally not overclock until I could get a better cooler.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

okie doke

ill see how it goes for now.

thanks for the advice x


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

You're welcome.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

ive got a small problem with my front audio panel.

its intergrated some USB ports aswell, which work fine but i cant seem to get the audio ports, microphone and headphone/line out jack to work.

ive tried the cable in different ways on the jaud1 set of pins but to no avail.

ive scanned in the page of info from the motherboard regarding front audio and the little bit that came with the case...



















i think if i am doing something wrong itll be to do with how these are configured.

i dont know though, haha. Any ideas welcome, thanks x


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Are you using the HD Audio pinouts listed in the first table of the first image? Use those.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

im using the pins labeled jaud1 

is that right?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Thats the connector on the motherboard with all the pins. You need to take the individual connectors on the front panel audio connector and arrange them according to the info on the first table labeled "HD Audio Pin Definition" in that first image.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

hi, the pin allocations dont match up with the HD audio ones. Im having trouble working out which go where and ive done a few runs trial and error but its not coming on.

which of the HD audio pins match with the audio function pins origianlly set on the cable?


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Are the individual front audio blocks labeled? Post the labels in your reply.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

ok,

the mic hole is labelled jack1 and the line in is jack2.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

What I meant was the connector blocks that plug into the motherboard header. There should be nine of them, each with a label.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

Im not sure what/where im looking to be honest, i cant see any more specific pin labels anywhere so ive took photos of the areas it could be...

[ive linked this pictures because it would be quite big on the thread]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/STP63755.jpg 

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/STP63758.jpg

if you zoom in a bit you can see pretty much all the writing i can see when physically looking at it. 

After searching around too see if i can give you some better info i think ive found what you mean. The labels of the connector blocks should [i think] be on that scanned post earlier on under the title; pin assignment.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

appologies, thats the cable set ups isnt it?

this is a scan of the pin labels from the motherboard book;

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m57/acrowley06/motherboardbookfrontaudioscan2.jpg

cheers x


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

You are trying to get the front audio jacks to work, correct? If so, there will be cables going from the front audio jacks that connect to the motherboard. Do you see these?


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

yes,

its a single cable that branches off to both the mic and line out jacks, which i fiddled with to change the pin settings earlier but it didnt work.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Does it branch off into a green and pink jack? If so and I am understanding you correctly then those plug into the rear audio jacks on the rear I/O panel.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

yeh, theyre the ones.

there's no slot for them to plug directly into the rear i/o panel though its like an encased box.

e.g

http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/pix/d975xbx2.jpg

its got a metal casing all around and there's no slot near it.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Those you thread through a rear expansion slot. Usually to do that you have to remove one of the expansion slot covers, like above the graphics card PCIe slot, and thread the cables outside the case and to the audio jacks in the back of the computer.


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## Antneedshelp! (Oct 10, 2006)

cheers matthew, ill give it a go.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

You're welcome.


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