# 1991 camaro rs v6 3.1 wont start



## VincentBanuelos

Hey guys, im new here. I need some help with my camaro.

Lets start with this..
I have a 1991 Camaro RS V6 3.1L, the car was running FINE!! beautiful!! then one day i turned it on, moved it in the grass to wash it, when i went to move it back to the drive way it wouldnt start.

Symptoms: The car turns over, backfires, when it backfires - there is smoke coming from the spark plugs in the block, and the exhaust.

Replaced: I have replaced the Battery(optima), Starter, Ignition Module, Distributor w/module, Rotor, CAP, Wires, and Spark Plugs.

I have done all this with no success :upset:, it keeps back firing, i even re-set the timing back to 0 notch and set the distributor in with the striker pointing to the # 1 cylinder. Any one have any ideas before i take it somewhere and spend 400 bucks??:4-dontkno Please help, 

Thanks, 
- Vince


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## bruiser

Timing chain?


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## VincentBanuelos

Thats one thing i do not understand, if your timing chain breaks, doesnt it usually break other things?? and if anyone knows, whats the easiest way to get to the timing chain on this model? Sorry, i know most things, but im a noob when it comes to internal components on the engine.


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## cardoc

I agree with the chain idea.They stretch and jump a few teeth.Its behind the frt cover behind the water pump.A quick ck is to wrench the crankshaft in one direction watching the dist.rotor,then turn it opposit direction.The rotor should move almost immediatly.When bad you can feel the slop in the chain.They don't break the gears loose their plastic coating and the chain gets very sloppey.It's actually more a gear then a chain problem but the result is the same.


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## Raylo

Could be the timing chain, for sure. Similar thing happened to my mom's 1970 302 Mustang once upon a time. Like Cardoc says, a worn crank or cam gear can lead to the chain skipping a few teeth. Definitely hoses the timing. Of course it could also be something more mundane but you seem to have checked most of that.

BTW, your question of damage if the timing chain breaks: That can happen in "zero clearance" engines where a valve at maximum opening will contact a piston at TDC. So when the timing is sufficiently off due to a belt/chain break (or bad slip) one or more pistons could be destroyed. I believe this is common in many DOHC designs but I don't think most Detroit OHV motors have this issue. Not sure about yours as I am not familiar with the GM 3.1.


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## VincentBanuelos

Ok, you all have been a big help, i will try replacing the timing chain this weekend, i will let you know if that is the problem.. Let me know if anyone has anymore ideas, would be great to hear them.
Appreciate it!!! :wave:


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## Raylo

Timing chain replacment is a big job so I might do some of the diagnostics Cardoc recommended first. You need to pull the intake manifold and rocker arms and all the interference to get at the timing set. But if you do it make sure to change the timing gears, too. You can usually get this all as a set. You'll probably need a puller to get the gears off. Also, be careful removing and reinstalling the harmonic balancer. These can be tough to get off and tough to put back on depending on how they are designed (keyed, press fit, etc)

I'm not sure about the 3.1 but when I replaced the cam (and timing chain&gears) on my 1994 Camaro 350 v-8 the front cover gasket where it interfaces with the oil pan was a bit of an issue. I was able to able to lower the front of the oil pan enough (without removing it, which would have been a lot more trouble) to get the front cover off. Again, it may be different on the 3.1.

Also, make sure to use the proper sealant on intake manifold bolts that go through water jackets.

Good luck and be sure to post the results.


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## VincentBanuelos

alright, one more question, i put a fuel pressure gauge on the car, it has pressure, but when i turn the key over, it drops BIG TIME. I saw another post on here, could it be injectors? man those arent cheap.:sigh:


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## Raylo

Timing chain replacment is a big job so I might do some of the diagnostics Cardoc recommended first. You need to pull the intake manifold and rocker arms and all the interference to get at the timing set. But if you do it make sure to change the timing gears, too. You can usually get this all as a set. You'll probably need a puller to get the gears off. Also, be careful removing and reinstalling the harmonic balancer. These can be tough to get off and tough to put back on depending on how they are designed (keyed, press fit, etc)

I'm not sure about the 3.1 but when I replaced the cam (and timing chain&gears) on my 1994 Camaro 350 v-8 the front cover gasket where it interfaces with the oil pan was a bit of an issue. I was able to able to lower the front of the oil pan enough (without removing it, which would have been a lot more trouble) to get the front cover off. Again, it may be different on the 3.1.

Also, make sure to use the proper sealant on intake manifold bolts that go through water jackets.

Good luck and be sure to post the results.


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## VincentBanuelos

alright, one more question, i put a fuel pressure gauge on the car, it has pressure, but when i turn the key over, it drops BIG TIME. I saw another post on here, could it be injectors? man those arent cheap.:sigh:


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## VincentBanuelos

Thanks RAYLO, I know its a big job, i dont really want to do it, but if it will work, ill do anything. This is my little brothers car and he wants to sell it because it wont run, he wants a Silverado. I told him EVERYONE has a silverado, not everyone has a 91 Camaro RS (in mint condition). I just want to see it running and him be proud of it. He likes my Trans Am and wants to go "Crusing" with me when we go out with the F-Body crew. :sigh:


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## Raylo

It makes sense for fuel pressure to drop when the fuel pump turns off, but I don't know how fast this should occur. I think there is usually some residual pressure but not sure how much. In any case I don't think this would be affected by the injectors unless they were totally stuck open. I've never seen anything like that personally. Fuel pressure should be controlled by the pump and fp regulator.

Very hard to diagnose this stuff accurately via a forum!


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## Raylo

Oh, maybe you meant that fuel presure drops a lot when you try to start the motor? That sounds abnormal. You should look up the spec for fuel pressure for you car and see how it compares.


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## VincentBanuelos

yeah, pressure starts at a number, then when i crank it over, the pressure drops. Ill try to find a spec sheet. The book doesnt tell me and i cant find it anywhere.


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## VincentBanuelos

what is the technical name for the peice on top of the block where you plug the fuel pressure gauge into and screw it on? cause mins leaking, need a new one.


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## bruiser

Are you talking about the fuel rail and the Schrader valve?


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## mack1

Hi VincentBanuelos and welcome to TFS,

I'm voting for the timing gear shelling off some plastic teeth. If my recall is working, only the gear on the camshaft had the plastic teeth and no gear puller required. It might be detected by pulling the distributor cap off and getting some to turn the engine over while watching the rotor button. If it stops or studders, it's the chain or gears. 

regards,
Mack1


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## Raylo

Wow, plastic timing gears..... I've heard of them but never seen one. Yes, the fuel pressure gage connection on the rail should just be a schrader valve.

I'm like you. I can't believe your brother wants to swap the 3.1 Camaro RS for a truck. Big mistake with the way fuel prices are going... unless of course he really needs it for work or something.


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## mack1

> They don't break the gears loose their plastic coating and the chain gets very sloppey


 From cardoc's post above.

In 1986 they were metal (aluminum) gears except for the teeth which were molded on.
They shell off like corn off a cob. I know this for sure, replaced one with a full metal one.

Mack1


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## VincentBanuelos

Alright guys, update. Took of the compressor, steering pump, harmonic balancer, cover, looked at the chain and gears, they look freakin brand new. i guess whoever had the car before us changed it out..

second thing, i put the car back in timing for the second time (maybe i didnt do it right the first time) but now it rumbles like it wants to turn on. but it only does this when its been sitting for a couple hours, it does it for about 4 or 5 times that i turn it over, but never turns on, and then it stops doing it, almost like its flooded. i pulled the plugs and they are kind of wet. so i took them all out to let them dry.. 

anyone have any ideas???? fuel injectors?:4-dontkno not ENOUGH fuel??:4-dontkno


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## Raylo

You're fast! What do you mean you "put it back in timing"? Are you talking about at the distributor? Also, do the timing gears have marks that get lined up? On my car you put the crank gear mark at 12:00 and the cam gear mark at 6:00 so they match up.


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## Raylo

Here is a diagram for a LT-1 V8 that shows the timing marks. They have to be lined up to establish the proper relationship between the crank and cam. If they are not lined up it means the chain has slipped. Again, not sure that a 3.1 is the same but since it is GM it might be similar.

http://shbox.com/ci/sprockets.jpg


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## VincentBanuelos

RAYLO, they did have marks, and they were lined up just as you stated.
and about being fast, i have power tools :grin: haha

anyways, yeah, i turned the balancer to 0, made sure # 1 and # 4 were on compression stroke and they were, the distributor was pointing towards the # 1 cyclinder, have spark everywhere. but it just rumbles for about 4-5 turns, then does nothing at all. it did backfire EXTREMLY LOUD, then i figured out i had the #1 wire on the # 2 plug (its been a long day).

any suggestions?


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## Raylo

I dunno, dude. Perhaps it's the car's computer? If you could find another one to swap in that would be an easy way to test that theory. Again, I'm not sure exactly what kind the 1991 3.1 has but used ones seem to be readily available for LT-1s so perhaps you can find one.

Another thing I had happen once was the air intake boot gapped a bit where it attaches to the throttle body after some routine maintenance. Since air was bypassing the MAF the computer saw no or little air and cut off the fuel. Also, the rubber was fluttering. So the car ran rough and had no power. So check the intake path (and manifold) for any leaks. Wouldn't hurt tolook at all the vacuum hoses and connections, too.


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## Raylo

One other possibility. My 1994 S10 4.3 V6 had the EGR valve stick open a couple of times. The truck would hardly run, especially at idle, which is when the EGR should be fully closed. Lots of vibration, bucking, etc. But it did run. New EGR fixed it right up. You might consider pulling the EGR and having a look.


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## bruiser

Go over here: www.camaroz28.com/forums/ and sign up. There is a V6 forum there. Post what's going on, and what you've checked. Ask about the fuel pressure.


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## VincentBanuelos

alright, i appreciate it. I'm prolly going to end up taking it to my mechanic. he's ganna charge me 69$ an hour, but atleast it will run.

thanks again, i will let you know if it is resolved.


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## cardoc

Ok lets ck some basics.Does have good spark from coil/let coil arc to wire should jump about a half inch.Do same at dist cap.Wet plugs usually means no/weak spark,spark out of time,no compression,no exhaust flow,way too much fuel.Fuel presure should hold near run spec while cranking,ECM may be getting faulty info and dumping fuel.I'll bet the oil smells gassey.For giggles try disconnecting the Mass Air Flow sensor after the plugs dry.The ECM will put in it's own value and may start is sensor is fubar.We're not done yet,keep us posted.A no start is usually just basic trouble shooting to figure out.
Good luck,Cardoc


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## mack1

Hi Vince,
I'm kindly like cardoc in that I think you should be able to fix the problem, though he didn't say it that way. Here's my thought patterns when I read your first post. It started backfiring after a car wash. "Probably mosture in the distributer cap", but just under that, you said that you had replaced the distributor (and other ignition parts). Since it backfired and the distributor was OK, must have been something else that caused it to fire at the wrong time. (fuel is OK, or it wouldn't have been able to backfire) "It must be timing", so the timing chain between the crank shaft and the camshaft must be off (chain slipped or stripped plastic gears). Now, I hear that the chain and timing marks between the chain and gears are in alignment according to the marks on the chain and gears mesh up. (I was going to apologize for not telling you about the marks on the chain and gears, but you seem to have known)'"good show". 
That being the case, I then get to wondering if when you installed the new distributor, did you make sure that the gears between the distributor and the camshaft matched such that it was in time. Don't know about your vehicle, but they normally have to be meshed in such that when the rotation caused by the angled gears(distributor and camshaft) end up with the rotory button pointing to the right position when the distributor is bottoms out. Your posts suggest that you are on top of that situation, again "good show". 

Now, there is a couple of things that are true that might not have been addressed as yet. Can't say about your car, but on a little later models, the computer tells the distributor when to fire each cylinder. It gets it engine position signal from a sensor located at the front of the engine that looks at a gear mounted on the camshaft. It senses when #1 cylinder reaches near top dead center and initiates a fire #1 plug signal based on that signal. Other signals follow until all is fired, then it looks for #1 again. (wider gap or something tells it that it is #1) Could this senosr signal be faulty because of loose or dirty connection or muck on the gear?????? (something is causing the backfire). Then, on your post #23, it sounds like timing is no longer a problem, except it might be a little off.(not backfiring after you got #1 and #2 wires straightened out).

So, if that gets us down to fuel and minor timing adjustments, here is a couple of things to know about fuel supply. When you turn the key from off to on(not start), the fuel pump runs for about 2 seconds. (you can hear this) You will measure the normal pressure with your fuel pressure gauge. May be up to 66 lbs., more or less, depending on your pressure regulator(I don't have a book on your vehicle). With no leaks, that pressure will slowly decrease. (several seconds to reach zero) Now, when you move the key from on to start, the fuel pump is susposed to come on again. (you can't hear this because of the noise of the starter) Put someone under the car to listen for this. If it don't come back on during the time the starter is engaged, it will not start. You might have the the observer to watch the pressure gage instead. Same idea applies.(when starting, the pump should come back on). You mentioned a leaking schrader valve where the pressure gauge attaches. That being the case, I would expect the initial pressure to blead off in just a few seconds, but it should go back up during a start attempt.(remember, the pump comes back on during starting) 

If all criterian is met,(compression, ignition, fuel mixture) it should start and sound good when you start the car. 

If you want to pay $69 per hour (plus parts) to fix it, go for it. I think you already know enough to fix it. Self confidence is a great thing to have. Ability comes with a little help from friends. 

Have a nice day,
Mack1


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## Raylo

Something Mack said got me looking. The 3.1 has a crank position sensor. These can fail and cause similar symptoms to what you are getting by hosing timing. It also could have possibly got wet during the car wash, especially if that included any heavy duty spraying underhood. Definitely worth a look. Also a relatively cheap and easy repair.


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## cardoc

Hi everyone
If the car has a distributor it won't have a crankshaft position sensor.


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## cardoc

Fuel pressure should not drop.It has to go somewhere-still thinking .while cranking fuel pump should keep up.When stopped pressure should hold over an hour.Has any one checked ECM fuses(more then one).Have you got access to a scan tool?
Are you sure you have the dist.timed right,you could be off one tooth and it would cause a lot of your problems but not the fuel pressure drop.If the pressure drops out while cranking it,s either dumping fuel faster then the pump can supply (not likely) our the pump is not running while cranking(maybe fuse/Check them all with a test light if possible).This assumes the gauge it's self isn't leaking.Still thinking...


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## Raylo

Hey Doc,

I was wondering about the CPS so I searched and found this. Not sure what its function would be if there is indeed a regular distributor. Maybe just to provide input for OBDII misfire detection? If that's all it does it I guess it couldn't be Vince's problem anyway, even if it were defective.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/91-9...016QQitemZ260220564603QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V


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## bruiser

A '91 wouldn't be OBDII. Some '95 V6 f-bodies were OBDII. That would be the earliest in the f-body. In '96 all were OBDII.


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## Raylo

D'oh!!! Sorry for the brain fart. I knew that. Still not sure what that sensor is for.


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## cardoc

Hi Raylo
I'am a little leary of that listing as it would be a redundit part.But it wounldn't be the first time with GM.I can ck into it better at work Monday.


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## Raylo

Yeah, we don't want to start using eBay as the definitive tehnical resource!

I think I was flashing back to a once upon a time discussion of LT1s. LT1s, of course, use an opitcal distributor, the good old Optispark. But when they went to OBDII they got a crankshaft position sensor and I sort of recall the discussion that it was just there for misfire detection (by comparing minute differences in crank position to some other timing reference) and to throw a code for OBDII. The reluctor wheel is supposedly mounted behind the harmonic balancer. So in this case the sensor wouldn't be purely redundant. I'm not 100% on this but that is my recollection. I remember being curious because my 1994 OBDI LT1 does not have a crank position sensor and there was no reluctor wheel when I pulled the balancer to do my cam job.

And all this has no relevance to the problem at hand.


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## bruiser

Your '94 doesn't have that sensor because it's OBDI. '96 and up got the crankshaft position sensor. Yep, it's just for misfire detection.


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## Raylo

Yeah, I know. That was why I looked into it in the first place when someone with a later model said they had a CPS and I was skeptical.

IIRC some company also makes an Optispark elimination kit for LT1s that provides individual coil packs like the LS series motors. Can't recall what they did for the CPS which would be needed for ignition and not misfire detection in that case.

I wonder how our Friend Vince is doing with his RS? I hope he's got it figured out.


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## VincentBanuelos

sorry i had not replied guys, i was working on the damn thing all weekend(almost burned it).
New up date is that i replaced the fuel filter (not the problem) i also bought a fuel pump, problem is, that whom ever put the exhaust on, welded the entire thing to the chasis and i cant get it off to drop the tank and replace the pump.. :4-dontkno
anyways. What i did find out, was that when i sprayed carb cleaner in the carb, the car started for like 1 1/2 seconds and then died!!!!!! someone told me this is related to (once again) a timing problem?????
let me know what you all think.

Thanks, 
- Vince.


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## VincentBanuelos

cardoc said:


> Fuel pressure should not drop.It has to go somewhere-still thinking .while cranking fuel pump should keep up.When stopped pressure should hold over an hour.Has any one checked ECM fuses(more then one).Have you got access to a scan tool?
> Are you sure you have the dist.timed right,you could be off one tooth and it would cause a lot of your problems but not the fuel pressure drop.If the pressure drops out while cranking it,s either dumping fuel faster then the pump can supply (not likely) our the pump is not running while cranking(maybe fuse/Check them all with a test light if possible).This assumes the gauge it's self isn't leaking.Still thinking...


The car does not have a place for a scanner under the dash, and i have checked all fuses and have had my lil bro go under the car while cranking it. The fuel pump does keep running while cranking. I plugged up the schrader valve thinking it was letting out too much pressure, because it was leaking, but that wasn't it. also i tried disconnecting the mass air flow sensor, didn't work either.
:upset::4-dontkno


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## bruiser

If it fires using a starting fluid, then I'd look at the fuel pump.


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## VincentBanuelos

Thats what i thought!! i was just wanting to confirm it. the idiot i talked to didn't really sound like he knew what he was talking about anyways.

I guess I'll have to take it to someone to get the pump in because of the exhaust, I don't have access to a welding machine.

unless anyone lives near San Antonio, Texas. and wants to come help out.
hah
it could also be the lines right? cause the pump doesn't sound like its bogging or anything. sounds fine. Fuel is getting to the front. guess its just the pressure.


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## cardoc

Did you ever mention what the fuel pressure gauge was reading.


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## VincentBanuelos

the gauge was reading about 50, but when i turned the key the pressure dropped. I talked to my mechanic, he saying it sounds like either injection fire, or VATS system wires. I need to get a node light, see if i can test one of the injectors.

think thats a good idea?


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## mack1

> the gauge was reading about 50, but when i turned the key the pressure dropped.


Hi Vence,

When you turn the key form off to on ((Not start)) you will get about a 2 second burst from the pump. Key off then back on, you would get another burst. That's where the 50 psi is coming from. When you turn the key to Start (( the pump susposed to come back on while starting)) If it don't, it will never start and the pressure will drop fast. Put someone under there while you hit the starter and see if the pump runs while starting. If not, fix the electrical problem.

Mack1


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## Raylo

Vince,

Did you ever determine the actual fuel pressure specs for your car? I had a problem with my 4.3 L S10 CPI where the fuel pump didn't fail outright but wouldn't put out full pressure. The FP specs on that motor are pretty high and if the pressure is 15 psi low, like what I had, you get a no start. That one was a bear to diagnose because I could hear the pump running and discounted it as the problem, until I actually looked at the specs. Getting a gas tank off a truck is a lot easier than a Camaro, though. I can't wait until my Z28 FP dies. <fingers crossed>

So, yes, get a noid light to check injector operation. But you really need to find the fuel pressure specs for your setup. Haynes manual or similar should have it.


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## cardoc

If you continue to crank the engine how far does the pressure drop.Fuel spec on that engine is 41-46 psi.If pressure drops while cranking sounds like pump is not running after prime signal.If you can try pinching off return line from the fuel rail.You should see a marked increase in pressure probably to 80 or 90 psi with a couple cylces of the ignition.This is the reserve pressure unregulated (another test of the pump).I think this car is too early for the factory VATS system.They have a security light in the dash.Some VATS systems would shut down the fuel pump during cranking for antitheft.If your handy with wiring you good jump the fuel pump relay as a test.
Keep posting,Cardoc


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## VincentBanuelos

cardoc said:


> If you continue to crank the engine how far does the pressure drop.Fuel spec on that engine is 41-46 psi.If pressure drops while cranking sounds like pump is not running after prime signal.If you can try pinching off return line from the fuel rail.You should see a marked increase in pressure probably to 80 or 90 psi with a couple cylces of the ignition.This is the reserve pressure unregulated (another test of the pump).I think this car is too early for the factory VATS system.They have a security light in the dash.Some VATS systems would shut down the fuel pump during cranking for antitheft.If your handy with wiring you good jump the fuel pump relay as a test.
> Keep posting,Cardoc


doc, the car does have a vats system, has the chip in the key with the orange wire with two white wires inside under the steering column going to the computer. I think i may just end up changing the fuel pump. its sounds to me like its that, but the fuel pump does continue to run while cranking the car. so lets go over this again, if the car fires with starting fluid, the timing is correct? we have spark? the injectors are firing? so the last and pretty much only option is the vats or fuel pump right?? just trying to clarify with myself, i got like 5 people telling me different things.


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## cardoc

Correct.I kow how you feel.Thats why I was interested in the pressures while cranking because of ths hassells of changing the pump.Got to narrow it done to one or the other.Although it does sound like the pump.You didn't happen to try a secound key.I know the VATS can be weird.Remember that the VATS can shut down the pump as well as other things.


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## VincentBanuelos

I dont have another key. i heard of people bypassing the vast system by wiring a resistor of the same ohms as the key into the vats wire.
but i may have to just wait to get someone to install the pump. cause its a [email protected]#$:upset:

ganna go buy a noid light today, to check the injectors just for the hell of it.


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## mack1

Hi Vince,
Looks like you are going to learn all our tricks before this is through. Cardoc's trick about clamping the return fuel line is a good one. Often, however, you can't either get to the hose or it isn't the type you can clamp. 

Here's another trick that can tell you something about the pump. When I heard about this one, I said "yea, righttt". But I tried it on a 95 Ford pickup with a failing pump and it worked. To know if it works, you have to know what the low pressure you get while cranking the engine over long enough for it to settle out. Then, get two friends to help. While cranking, let one watch the fuel pressure gauge while the other gives the bottom of the fuel tank some firm hits with a flat piece of wood. (It's ok to say "yea righttt" at this point) See if the bottom pressure increases. If so, it might even start. That's not necessarily good news, because it means you will have to replace the fuel pump. Some pumps get sluggish while failing and this trick will sometimes jar them enough to run faster, thus more pressure. 

Here's another thing everyone should be aware of. The fuel is used to cool the pump. If you routinely drive with low fuel level, you will reduce the life of the pump. It's a lot better on the pump if you keep the tank near full.

Hope this helps,
Mack1


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## VincentBanuelos

hmm, not bad...

I may have to try that, and you are correct, the return line looks like a fuel line. metal and not flexible.


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## mack1

Hi Vince,
And by the way, be careful and use the flat side of whatever you stike the tank bottom.
Be extra careful if the tank is plastic. You don't want to bend up the bottom of the tank. The pump probably reaches the near bottom of the tank.

Mack1


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## cardoc

Oh yeah,we get a lot of vehicles in the bays with that trick.Beats pushing and it's cheap diag.You wack the tank with a rubber mallet,it starts,you know it's a bad pump.Still wondering what the fuel pressure is doing.


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## VincentBanuelos

cardoc said:


> Oh yeah,we get a lot of vehicles in the bays with that trick.Beats pushing and it's cheap diag.You wack the tank with a rubber mallet,it starts,you know it's a bad pump.Still wondering what the fuel pressure is doing.



im wondering the same, pressure is good till i turn the key, and it drops to like 15psi.


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## cardoc

It really sounds like the pumps not running when crankingTry juming power across the fuel pump relay.You will have to see the wires and jump the 2 heaviest wires preferably with a fused jumper lead.This is getting down to the nitty gritty


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## cardoc

According to the locator I just tried it's near the master cylinder on the firewall.


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## Raylo

Sounds like progress.

Banging on the tank... I'll have to remember that one. BTW, guys, what causes a "sluggish" fuel pump? Before the no start issue on my S10 due to low fuel pressure I had always assumed the pumps either worked or didn't. What part on the pumps is failing when they are sluggish?

A comment on VATS.... that website I referenced earlier (shbox.com) has a detailed procedure for bypassing VATS on an LT1 f-body. Probably similar enough to yours to be helpful. I am not sure if VATS cuts out spark, fuel or both. But bypassing it would be a lot easier than R&R of a fuel pump.


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## VincentBanuelos

well guys, im waiting to do the fuel pump, i checked the injectors, the noid flashes. i also checked the wires that came from the steering colum for the vats system with an ohm meter, they tested 800ohmz, which is normal. Im just waiting on some cash to do the fuel pump... the car does need new exhaust, maybe i should just cut the exhaust off. hmm........ welp, i will keep you all updated on the out come, no matter what i do.

I also wanted to say thank you to everyone that put they're 2 cents in. this is the first forum i've actually gotten somewhere with. it has been awesome and you all have been an AWESOME help by helping me eliminate the causes and not letting me give up on myself. although it was very frustrating, i did learn TONS of new things, and i am grateful. once again, THANK YOU ALL!!!! and i will keep you posted if the fuel pump was the problem.ray::grin:

Thanks, 
-Vince


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## cardoc

Hi everyone
Raylo, banging the tank is like banging your old tv to get the picture back.You're just rattling worn out connections etc.Sometimes you get lucky.Speaking of luck,Vince ,good luck with the pump.
Cardoc


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## Raylo

Good luck with the FP, Vince. If you can, get most of the gas out of the tank before you drop it. Makes it a lot easier to handle. If you can't, having an extra body to help would be a good idea. Even a few gallons sloshing around can make things interesting.

I just got back from a road trip in my S10 pickup and it threw a SES light about 300 miles up the road. Luckily it kept running fine. I am hoping that it is just a random EGR code. Going to jack the computer in this AM to check. Who knows, maybe I'll soon be starting another thread about something. It's ALWAYS something!


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## qldit

Good Evening VincentBanuelos, It seems I missed a series of posts here, I made a stupid suggestion and see this is incorrect so please excuse my dopiness! LOL!! 
Edited out (DUH!)

Cheers, qldit.


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## VincentBanuelos

Alright guy's, she's going to the doctor tomorrow!!!! I'll let you know what my mechanic tells me.:grin:

Thanks, :wave:
-Vince


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## VincentBanuelos

:wave:Alright guys, Mechanic thinks its timing STILL, it only has 55lbs of compression at all 6 cylinders. He will let me know more details later.

Thanks.


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## qldit

Good Morning VincentBanuelos, yes, inview of the balanced cylinder low pressures it is very likely the valve timing has moved.

Hopefully no love making between valves and pistons will have happened.

You can easily confirm valve timing is proper by removing a tappet cover and ensuring that #1 cylinder inlet and outlet valve tappet rockers are perfectly closed and "rocking" at the point when #1 piston is exactly at top dead centre on the inlet / exhaust stroke.

Lack of inlet air will give a lower compression across the entire cylinders because there will be no inlet air available at the correct time when the piston is on the intake stroke, thus that effect will result.

Best of luck there, 

Cheers, qldit.


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## bruiser

Update?


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## VincentBanuelos

alright guys, update, mechanic said it was the timing chain and gears. When i looked at them they looked fine, but dunno? he's the mechanic. So, he replaces the gears, chain and tensioner's, it ran just fine without the cover on, so they put it allllll back together and now it wont start...:4-dontkno:upset:
so they have to back track and figure out what went wrong. i will give everyone an update once i get one..:sigh:

Thanks, 
-Vince


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## Raylo

Any news, Vince? We are all wondering what kind of ghost (or gremlin) is in your machine.


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## VincentBanuelos

sorry raylo, as of right now, no news, im just as anxious as you are, mechanic is kind of backed up:4-dontkno. im going to call him first thing in the morning though to see whats going on. will keep you posted.

thanks, :wave:
-Vince


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## RIGHTE0US

Crank trigger is either off on the setting or they broke a wire


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## Matt crs91

check your coil, that is a common problem in 91 v6 camaro's. i had the same problem a while ago. At first it just wouldn't start in the cold. then it got worse to where it didn't wanna start at all. and it would flood and backfire.


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## VincentBanuelos

Sorry, guys, update, Car runs now.. replaced timing chain, and fule pump.
thanks to everyone who helped me out!
Thanks.


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## mack1

Hi Vince,

Glad we could help. 
Bet you know a lot more about that 91 Camaro now:grin:


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## BUDFAN8

the camaro is responsable for me even knowing anything about wrenching on cars. i got an 81 when i was 19 had to work on it all weekend every weekend just to make it last the week to go to work. thats one car im glad i got rid of.


Bud.


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## mack1

> the camaro is responsable for me even knowing anything about wrenching on cars.


Cars like that have made me what I am today. Now, that might not be good ...........but it ain't bad:grin:


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