# Possible new car



## V0lt (Sep 14, 2002)

Hey guys, in a stroke of unusual generosity, my dad has decided to lease my brother and I either an '05 Subaru Legacy or an '06 VW Jetta. Both are obviously base models, but the Legacy has about 25 more horsepower and only one less pound foot of torque than the Jetta- plus I think it's lighter. And it has all wheel drive.

My dad said he though the Jetta had a tighter feel to it- I'd have to disagree, I thought it was just really touchy and underpowered, probably due to all the excess weight.

Has anyone here owned either of these cars? What did you think of them, and if you've had past experience with either of these models (not necessarily these model years), which one would you recommend?

The difference right now is mainly cost. The Jetta is 20 more a month for the lease, but the Legacy has a couple thousand dollar downpayment and a 6-year lease (vs 39 months for the Jetta).

My last bone to pick with the VW is the styling. I really don't like the way it looks- I've always thought of volkswagen styling as a bit feminine, and I think this car takes that a step further even, with an obnoxious grille, while the Legacy is nicely understated.

Appearance judgements aside, which one do you think would serve us better, or rather which would be a better deal (considering I'd have to pay for the downpayment and take over the lease after 39 months if we got the legacy, but I'd need a car anyway at that point).


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## oldmn (Oct 16, 2005)

Why A lease?


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## V0lt (Sep 14, 2002)

Mostly because we don't have 20 thousand bucks to throw down on the table. We're looking at a new car because we need one that will be a reliable first car for my brother and I, and because we don't have the time to look around for and mess around with a used car- especially if it needs repairs that the seller didn't mention.


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## oldmn (Oct 16, 2005)

Just curious Leases are rarely a good deal in the end. Everyone I know that has leased a vehicle were D**M glad to get out of them. :4-dontkno 
All of them swear they will never do it again.


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## V0lt (Sep 14, 2002)

What would you suggest in place of a lease? A bank loan for 20 thousand dollars would take years to pay off, and then when that's all said and done, I won't want to keep this car till I'm 30 either.


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## bruiser (Jul 30, 2005)

I'd Google around for "Jetta problems" and "Legacy problems" and see what happens.


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## JamesO (Mar 30, 2005)

Not sure I would go with a 6 year car lease!!!

Even with a higher up front payment, I would go with a shorter lease. You have no idea what will happen 6 years from now and if the car is a problem child, you will have to live with it until the end of the lease. You may also start cranking up the miles in the end, and if so, you will not want to drive the car as the extra miles will cost you bucks!

36-39 months is ok, I would never consider a 6 year lease.

JamesO


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## yustr (Sep 27, 2004)

I have a 99 Legacy wagon. Its been absolutely trouble free until this year: clutch, viscous coupling, alternator. But it is 6 years old with 100K so maybe that's not terrible. Its comfortable and secure. Large enough for 4 plus stuff. My 19yo son calls it a "grocery getter" but I like it. 

I've no experience with Jetta's but you won't be dissapointed with the Subbie.

And I agree, fleases are for dummies. Shop around for a loan that requires less down. Being limited on how many miles I can drive each year would irritate me every time I got in the thing.


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## V0lt (Sep 14, 2002)

Thanks for the advice, JamesO. It's looking more and more like it'll be the Jetta. Oh well, if I still feel the same way after 3 years I guess I could always just buy the car I want used then.


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## oldmn (Oct 16, 2005)

Fox said:


> What would you suggest in place of a lease? A bank loan for 20 thousand dollars would take years to pay off, and then when that's all said and done, I won't want to keep this car till I'm 30 either.


Here is some info comparing the two options


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## bry623 (Apr 8, 2002)

*That's nice of your dad*

Unless things change, my twins will each get a beater from the junk yard as a first car. Go for the Jetta.


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## oldmn (Oct 16, 2005)

bry623 said:


> Unless things change, my twins will each get a beater from the junk yard as a first car. Go for the Jetta.


Ah junkyard cars my first one was a 1959 studebaker Lark 8 $35.00. :grin:


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## V0lt (Sep 14, 2002)

Nice, I bet it was a nice simple car to start out with. It's a shame that cars today are so complicated- it makes it unattractive for teenagers to get underneath, especially when we're building computers instead :smile:

I don't want to look spoiled, so I'll redeem myself by saying that this car is probably mostly for my dad, and here's my reasoning:

1. The car we have now is 8 years old and has nearly 160,000 miles on it
2. This car is now becoming a financial burden
3. Our other car needs to be available for my mom and my sister
4. Once our current car is gone, a Mustang GT will take its place. It would probably be a bad idea to have 300 horsepower flowing through your rear wheels into a foot of snow, so my dad needs this car as a "winter car".


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## oldmn (Oct 16, 2005)

Fox said:


> Nice, I bet it was a nice simple car to start out with. It's a shame that cars today are so complicated- it makes it unattractive for teenagers to get underneath, especially when we're building computers instead :smile:
> 
> I don't want to look spoiled, so I'll redeem myself by saying that this car is probably mostly for my dad, and here's my reasoning:
> 
> ...


Spoiled honestly never crossed my mind.
Both them cars have good records so take a vote, draw straws or flip a coin. :sayyes: 
We bought my oldest daughter 5 cars trashed every one of them, fortunately they were all used (used to work on them myself). Now I am spoiled, no beaters for me. :grin: 
You know Fox I read somewhere that 90% of the Ford that were made after 1990 are still on he road.



The other 10% made it home. :grin:


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## V0lt (Sep 14, 2002)

Haha what a wonderful joke. 

This is going to be my dad's baby, so I doubt it'll end up in a steaming pile on the side of the road like many of its forerunners. 

Wow how'd your daughter trash five cars? In total, I think I've caused about 100 bucks total of damage to the car in the form of a blown sidewall. And then I payed half of that to my dad.


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## oldmn (Oct 16, 2005)

> Wow how'd your daughter trash five cars?


Can you say ZERO maintenance. One she ran off the road , one she was driving in a wind storm hit a branch on the road that went through the radiator, then drove it till it seized. :4-dontkno One option you might look at is Rental/ or fleet vehicle lots my 02 I picked up for about 4 grand less than you would have from a dealer. You can normally be assured that they have been well maintained. And are generally low mileage, some still have time left on there warranty. :4-dontkno


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## Volt-Schwibe (Jan 12, 2003)

oldmn posted quite a helpful link, and after reading it, here is what i dug out of it as the "meat" of the article.



> 1. The short-term monthly cost of leasing is always significantly less than the cost of buying.
> For the same car, same price, same term, and same down payment, monthly lease payments will always be 30%-60% lower than loan payments. This is still true even when compared to 0% or low-interest loans.
> 
> 
> ...


and, i 100% agree with this.

i have seen dozens of people lease cars, and dozens of people buy them, and that's it in a nutshell.

now, we go to kbb.com to see what happens to the value of a subaru after 6 years to know if your subaru will be worth anything in 6 years.

EDIT: ok, i don't need to dig into specifics here, but i went to KBB.com, and i told it i wanted to price a 1999 subaru legacy. (6 year old car of same make.)

what i find, well, selecting a 4 door sedan, and telling it 50 miles per day x 365 days x 6 years = 120,000 miles, we tell it condition is good, and it says, 2,700$.

i tell it 100,000 miles, and wow, the price went up 290$.
i tell it excellent condition, and wow, another 200$.

i try the wagon, no difference.
i tell it the GT, and it actually went up to 4000$.

keep in mind, these are 22,000$ cars being worth about 12% of their original value after 6 years. (the gt was closer to 31,000$ when it was new)

so basically, with a car like a subaru, at the end of a 6 year lease, the car has very very little value left over, so the lease is really going to tear you up eating extra money, as the value drains out of the car.

maybe you should ask them about a 3 year lease, where the car still has lots of it's overall value left.

i was told once, that two 3 year leases are cheaper than a single 6 year lease, and you always have a car that's 3 years old or less.

now, as far as which car i suggest, they are both excellent cars, and i could never decide between the two.


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## Volt-Schwibe (Jan 12, 2003)

oldmn said:


> You know Fox I read somewhere that 90% of the Ford that were made after 1990 are still on he road.
> 
> The other 10% made it home. :grin:



HAHAHA that made my day.

also, Ford claims, that 80% of ford owners return to buy their next car from ford.

in reality, it's because ford offers a higher trade in for old fords than ANY other dealer will, they make a point of telling you that when you buy one.

it has been this way since the 70's.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

oldmn said:


> Ah junkyard cars my first one was a 1959 studebaker Lark 8 $35.00. :grin:


Don't ya wish you had it back in mint condition? It'd be worth a LOT more than $35.00!


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## oldmn (Oct 16, 2005)

There are others that I would rather still have.
36 ford pickup
54 chev convert
66 mustang convert
55 dodge cornet redram convert
Oh well cant have every thing. :grin:


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

oldmn said:


> There are others that I would rather still have.
> 36 ford pickup
> 54 chev convert
> 66 mustang convert
> ...


Quit that! You're making me drool! :grin: 

Now...back to our regularly scheduled thread!


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## oldmn (Oct 16, 2005)

Midnight Tech said:


> Quit that! You're making me drool! :grin:
> 
> Now...back to our regularly scheduled thread!


You are right. Hay Fox Sorry about that.
The Subaru's are quite popular around here with the all wheel drive.
We don't get a lot of snow, but we can get a lot of ice. :sayyes:


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

You're right about those Subarus...I moonlight with a paper route 3 days a week and I'd love to have one of those right drive ones to do the route (we get ice too)...
If you can get a very good finance rate, it'd be better to buy instead of lease Fox...

BTW oldmn, had a guy come to parts store yesterday driving a 65 Lark....looked like it had just come outta the showroom!


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