# Upgrading the PSU in a HP Pavilion a6647c currently w/ 250 watt PSU



## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

Hello there,

After a lot of web searching yesterday, with many hits on this particular forum actually that were very useful, I have decided I would really like to attempt an upgrade to my PSU at some point in the near future. This is so that I may upgrade to a decent video card. From what I can tell, 250w doesn't get you much of anywhere. 

I would like to know if adding a 550w PSU to my computer would pose any serious danger to the motherboard and components. I'm not looking to calculate what wattage I need - just to find out what the highest, safest watt PSU would be for my particular model of the Pavilion  

I hate going into something without doing a lot of looking, so I've tried to search everything possible via google, tech support forums, and including the Foxconn site. In addition, from what I've seen posters griping about, HP only goes so far when telling you about their components before they want a check. I just submitted a tech ticket to the Foxconn tech support site, but having had poor luck with submitting such tickets to various companies in the past I really am not counting on tech support help, even from the makers of the board. I found many helpful pages but I only saw one that specifically listed my motherboard make with a HP Pavilion while also containing a recommendation for a 550w Corsair PSU, which still leaves me a little uneasy as other postings contained similar Pavilions but only had recommendations for higher PSUs with no specifics. You are my hope now

My specs are currently located here:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...55&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&lang=en&product=3825393

The motherboard is a Foxconn MCP73M01H1
HP/Compaq motherboard name: Napa-GL8E

PSU is 250 watts.

I know that the sizing of a PSU versus a HP system can be a very serious consideration, but from the postings I've seen for similar models of the Pavilion, and very recent ones that have the same general structure, it sounds like I might need to look into the Corsair 550watt [email protected], located here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004

This was recommended to a user with a similar Pavilion and to another with the same motherboard, though neither indicated the results of their purchases, so I'm not sure how it worked out.


Would the 550w PSU be acceptable for this system, and out of curiosity, would higher than that be pushing it? How high might I go without possibly damaging the components with too much power? (that sounds weird to me, but I keep seeing mixed responses to having "too much power" in a PSU for a system, so I'm not sure about that either)

Are there any specific recommendations, given my systems specs and the desire for an upgraded graphics card such as the 8800, or is that Corsair the gem for the moment?


Again, my real fear is just putting too many watts in there, which probably sounds odd to some people given I'd imagine the components can take what they need from it, but I have heard components might draw more power than needed. You'd know best



Thanks for reading my long-winded post - i just didn't want to give too little information and have to have you guys ask me "what's this, and what's this, and what's your what?"

I hope you all have a very nice day,

-Jessica


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

There is no such thing as too much power, each device draws what it needs, and no more. The limitation with upgrading a psu in an OEM machine is physical size and if the connectors are standard atx, which most are.


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

Link to your motherboard. http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01357119&cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en

Take a look at your main 24 pin ATX power connector and see if the pinout is the same as in this image (if the image works), if that's the case it's a standard atx pinout, then just a matter of physical size. 









I hope that it's standard atx sized and not micro-atx, your motherboard is a micro, but that doesn't mean that the power supply and case are.


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

Thank you for such a fast response grim

I printed a picture of your image (which worked thank you) and opened my case. I guess it depends on what angle you're looking at it, but mine appears to match up with the image if I were to turn the paper over printed side down and look at the color combination that way:

From my angle - looking down on the motherboard at the plug this way:
. .
. .
. .
etc
. .
. . 20th pin of the plug
. . 4 additional open holes to plug into
. .

The color combo of the cords appears as:

*Orange - Orange
Blue - Orange
Black - Black
Green - Red
Black - Black
Black - Red
Black - Black
Empty - Grey
Red - Purple
Red - Yellow*

My only concern with this result is that whereas in your image there is a slot for "White," on the plug going into my motherboard there is only an empty hole - the "Empty" I've noted. No white cord goes into it - is this still the same pinout you were hoping for?

Thank you 
Have a great night,


-Jessica


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

That's perfect. The empty one is fine, when the atx standard went to version 2.0, the -5volts was declared redundant, so it doesn't need to be there anymore. 
You didn't take a rough measurement of the physical size while you were there, by any chance eh? 
I think you'll be good, have seen some model numbers close to yours that used a standard atx size psu, so have my fingers crossed. Should be roughly 6 inches wide and 3 1/2 inches high. The length varies, some of the real monsters are real long.

For a card like the 8800 series, you're looking more like a 650watt jobbie, and any card higher than that a 750. I'm running a 750 with my 9800GT (almost identical to the 8800GT 512), and could run it on a 650, but I tend to swap parts around a lot. Well, maybe a little more than a lot, but about the only type of card that won't show is a dual gpu card. So, you need to think about what video card, and the possibilites of a nearish future upgrade. All that should depend on what the purpose of the card is, and budget, of course. Some like to spend as little as possible, some like to spend as much as possible, and some like a balance between actual needs, budget, and quality. I know, sounds like a fairy tale eh.


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

Hello again,

I really should have done that but I must confess I just wasn't thinking. Go figure that instead of measuring it, I did manage to note that it was a HIPRO HP D2537F3R, and it was actually 250 watts, not simply posted as 250 with the computer specs but actually much less as I've heard sometimes happens. Does this help a little bit more? I've searched the unit via Google and found at least one posting that sells replacement PSUs of that model that mentions it as being hard to find because of its "special size"  However, measurements on that one seem close to what your suggesting if your consideration of width and height are the same as theirs.

http://justpowersupplies.com/hipro-HP-D2537F3R-power-supply.htm

I will also measure the PSU soon just to be safe

Question on measurement with regards to the PSU specifically, which sides are considered the length, width and height (and which is depth of these three - length?)? I haven't found a diagram specifically showing how the standards are measured across the board, so I'm just going along with comparison of the picture and measurements provided in the link above as a reference. According to that picture, is the width the measurement of the long side of the PSU with the fan vents, the height the measurement from the top to the bottom (seems obvious), and the length/depth the measurement from the side with the fan vents on towards the back end we can't see? Just want to be clear on these things:0

For the graphics card - I keep seeing a lot about the 8800, and it's a possibility. I'm looking for something that isn't a massive upgrade but decent enough to play games like half-life 2, counter strike, wow, and future games smoothly. It sounds like the 8800 might be the way to go considering this. I would like to keep the cost reasonable - I want a card that will allow me to experience lighting effects, fire, smoke, etc smoothly without lagging up, but I don't need to go way over the top with something super fancy because this would be my first replacement. I'm really cautious about this process and I have been reviewing tutorials and keeping note of them, I just really don't want to miss a step in case I end up wasting money by damaging something or selecting the wrong items.

As for the PSU, assuming that having seen the model of my PSU you are confident that I could even fit in a replacement, I would like to side with whatever you recommend and hope that there is a chance that it will come at a good price It sounds like I also need to make sure the that graphics card selected will fit with the PSU - something about amperage, I've seen, or a graphics card requiring 24A versus a PSU with 22A, which could be detrimental to the card, something to this effect? So I want to make sure that whatever I take will allow for easy selection of a card. It looked like that Corsair 550w (with the exception of a larger wattage) had [email protected] I am hoping you'll understand what I'm trying to grasp at here better than I'm conveying it

I'll stop rambling, you have been incredibly helpful and now have had to suffer through another long post.


Thank you and have a nice night (finally)

-Jessica


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

The psu looks like it's nonstandard, I searched the model number as well. The height and width of a standard atx psu are the same dimensions as the end at the back of the case and the other end of the power supply where the cables come out. Roughly 6 inches across and 3.5 inches high, when the tower is standing up. 
With a nonstandard supply, you probably don't have the physical room in there to put in a psu good enough to run a decent video card. 

The replacements that you see are extremely low quality, notice the whopping 30 day warranty. I have to put in a quote from that site about the warranty. 
" Due to the ease of installation and absence of past problems and issues, we are now able to offer a 30 day return warranty, for any reason! "
They give the dimensions as 5 7/8" wide, 3 3/8" high, and 4" in length. A standard psu may fit the height and width, but the length is rather shorter than usual, depends on how much room there is where the cables come out of the power supply. 
If I was in your shoes, I'd see if I could borrow a standard atx power supply and check to see if it can physically mounted into your case. And if not, can some slight modification make it fit, something like bending or moving a bracket. Someday the manufacturer's will make their stuff completely standard, they have improved in some areas, but still not good enoough. I'd guess that they don't want people doing much that would make their machines last longer, that would reduce sales for them.


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

Aww, that's too bad. I was wondering about that length because some of the PSUs I've seen seem to be bigger in that sense. 

If I could somehow fit a standard in there, is there any risk to the motherboard? meaning would connecting it to standard PSU be a danger to it as opposed to connecting it to a nonstandard? I'm assuming that because we determined I have a standard ATX pinout that as long as whatever I (could) end up with had a standard ATX pinout, that it would not cause damage, but not sure.

I unfortunately don't currently have any friends in this area that would be a good resource for pulling out parts to see if the size fits in, but I do have a Dell Dimension 8200 that's about eight years old or so. I wonder if it's PSU would suffice. I will open that up and check it out - it might be worth the shot. 
Worse comes to worse there might be a cheap standard out there that would help. Do most list themselves as "standard?" or is there a particular length that would make it closer to standard size?


Thank you! If anything all of this has helped me to better understand my computer, so it's been worth the effort

Have a very nice day,

-Jessica


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

Measurements on the Dell PSU are:

about 3 1/2 tall
about 5 1/2 long
about 6 wide

This was taken from the following site:

"Standard ATX power supply dimensions will usually be in the range of 3.25" x 6" x 5.5" (H x W x D) while typical mATX (Micro ATX) power supply dimensions are in the range of 2.5" x 5" x 4" (H x W x D). While these dimensions may shift slightly based on the unit and manufacturer, mATX units will always be smaller than ATX units."

http://www.outletpc.com/what-to-look-for-when-shopping-power-supply-dimens.html

Sounds like I might have a winner in terms of finding a PSU to test-fit


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

You're going to love this weirdness:

I went ahead and put both computers out, opened the cases and compared sizings of the PSUs. I had this weird feeling about the HP PSU because when i looked at it it just seemed the same as I remembered the Dell's PSU, and suuuure enough, I measure it and the 4" measurement is apparently inaccurate or is only reflected with that PSU mentioned in the link above because that's a slightly different sized replacement. The posting was for a replacement model, so I can only guess that somehow the model was made smaller. That doesn't seem right, but I did measure several times and came up with these measurements for the HP PSU:

about 3 1/2 tall 
about 6 wide
about 5 1/2 long

5 1/2 LONG??? Ok, well also comparing it visually and with measurements, they both look and come very very close to the same size. So go figure

Not sure how normal that is, but hey, hopefully it's a positive result

-Jessica


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

The length of standard psu's is variable, the larger wattage ones are longer, generally. The 3 1/2 high and 6" wide sounds promising indeed. So, even though that one site said it was a nonstandard size, those measurements sound like a "close enough for government work" type situation. If you look at a bunch of power supplies, you'll notice that they look squareish, 6" long is quite average. And the HP psu being 5 1/2" long sounds much better than 4" long, length can be a factor in small cases, something roughly the same shouldn't be a problem.

Your wires are the same colours in the same position, so you aren't going to fry anything when connecting another psu. I'd still feel better if you managed to try something that isn't out of an OEM machine, but sound like it will work with those measurements. 

Look in the specifications here, it's very close to yours in physical size, in fact slightly less in height and width, but a touch longer. And slightly less means that it should slide right into the mounting bracket. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005 

Strange, the Corsair 550 watt is the same price as the 650. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

Well, hopefully this will work out I find the number of cables available with that thing pretty daunting...I'm not really sure how I will approach this once I actually go to do it. I've found some tutorials, but still...

Can you clear up something about the new PSU? The HP PSU has the 20 pins plugged into the motherboard that we examined earlier, plus four pins that are empty - it basically looks just like the 20 pins are plugged into one part of the plug but the last four on the other end of it are open. The 20 and 4 don't seem to be separated in any way. I've read that the auxiliary 4 pin ATX12V connector is separate from the 20/24 pin plug - often not right next to it in many mother boards, but further away. I did not happen to notice a separate plug for this on my motherboard but since we've determined that my PSU is a standard ATX I'm assuming I just missed it. The Corsair has the 24 pin connector and an 8 to 4 pin EPS/ATX12V. How would I handle the ATX12V for the Corsair if my motherboard has a 4 pin plug to connect to but the Corsair has an 8 to 4 pin ATX12V? Is this simpler than I'm imagining? Wouldn't it be too big, or is there a way you normally would approach that that makes it fit?

Additionally:
Because my current PSU only has the 20 pin plug currently plugged into the motherboard, which has a 24 hole plug-in with the last four holes being empty of anything, will it be safe to plug in the Corsair's 24 pins directly into those 24 holes without for some reason needing to separate the last four from the 20?

I hope I explained my question well enough, just let me know if I didn't

Thank you!

Have a nice night,

-Jessica


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## magnethead (Mar 18, 2006)

sounds like the board was made so that the OEM could use it in different series of computers by adding/removing things. perfectly normal. 

As far as i can tell, you're within the specifications of every ATX/EPS requirement I know of.


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

If you look just below and to the left of your cpu, you'll see where the 4 pin ATX 12v. plugs in. It's not the 4 pin on the same cable as the 24 pin ATX power. Separate cable with just the cpu power and nothing else on it. Usually the connector will either just be the square 4 pin by itself, or in a 4+4 configuration, where they come apart and you just use four. Eight for some motherboards, but yours is four.

The main atx power connector is in a 20+4 configuration, same idea as the 12v. cpu power, the 4 pin segment slides off for a 20 pin socket. Your motherboard diagram shows a 24 pin socket, so no worries there, just have to plug it in, all 24 of them.

Yes, there are a lot of cables, power supplies are "hydra" like in that regard. It can be a problem getting the unused cables out of the way. I usually coil them up and stash them in an empty drive bay. Thankfully, my case has a pile of room behind the motherboard tray for running cables, that really helps me with my lack of cable management skills. 

I'd also suggest that when you do undertake an operation such as this, take good notes, and perhaps some digital pictures to help getting all the connections as they were. It isn't hard to do, just take your time and be thorough is all. And stay grounded to avoid static while inside the case. I always unplug and any time I touch anything, either my other hand is on the metal frame, or I'm leaning against it. Which helps steady my hands too.


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

Thank you!

I drew little diagrams and took notes on where things were plugged in, and made sure I noted how they were plugged in. I was as cautious as possible with it and I hope that's paid off I don't think I've damaged anything, and didn't notice any static although this all took place on my bed (I know, it's easier on me and my back if I'm unscrewing and pulling things out from that height for a prolonged time) but I kept myself constantly grounded. I get so paranoid I'm going to shock myself and the parts><

I have made the install and it so far appears to be working really well. I'm hoping that it will continue to do well, and that I'll come home from work tomorrow and see that everything is still intact

It doesn't run loud at all, it's actually pretty nice. It wasn't a bad fit either. I had a minor issue pulling out the original PSU because there's a small uprising at the side of the case along which I had to slide it out that appears to be designed to help keep it in, but once I figured that out I was able to suppress it and pull the case out. It definitely IS longer though - there's still space between it and the drive bays, but it is just a little bit noticeably longer than the other.

Next step (hopefully!): Graphics card:O

I'm considering the 8800 and even 9800 although you recommended the 750 for that - do you think that would be reasonable given I do have a 650 right now? If it isn't a high risk I'd like to give that one a shot - I've talked to a couple guys who've said it should be no problem running it with this type of PSU and wattage, but then again, maybe it'd be a bad idea. I'm not sure I didn't want to go and upgrade PSU and graphics card, then somehow end up behind the times by the time I actually get everything set up. 

Are there any major differences between the 8800 and the 9800? I'm mostly concerned with graphical effects that are along the lines of flashes of light, fire effects (as in half life 2, for example), smoke effects (as in counter strike) as those are where I have the worst trouble currently. If the 8800 would handle those beautifully and without ridiculous frame rate lag I would be happy as a clam, but if the 9800 would be an amazing improvement and I could still use it on this nice PSU then that could also be awesome. What are your thoughts in light of this?

I actually had someone tell me that the 9800 is basically a "refurbished 8800" although I'm not sure where that notion comes from. Do you understand what he means?

I've also heard ATI cards are excellent, particularly with games running on the HL2 engine, but I wonder if it'd be best to stick with Nvidia as my current integrated is of that name. I'm sorry if I seem like a bother - I feel like I just need to know where to go from here now that I have the means to get a decent upgrade, and so far you have been quite a trustworthy source of information 

Thank you so much for all your guidance on this - it's really interesting to me, and a huge step as I've never upgraded my system before, even with something like a power supply.

Have a very nice night

-Jessica


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

I went for the 9800 after reading your earlier responses over again :O


Installation sounds pretty straightforward, so when I get that set hopefully I'll be able to put the card in with little to no trouble


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

Yep, the 650 will handle a 9800 no problem at all. The installation is easy enough. 
At the moment, ATI is the better bang for the buck card, however they aren't without their problems, like any card. The chipset on your motherboard is an nVidea chipset, you're better off with an nVidia card to reduce the chances of conflicts. Not that ATI wouldn't work, but IMHO it's best to stick with the same manufacturer and avoid driver conflicts.

For the install, it's best to uninstall the old first. 

Go to device manager and under display adapter, uninstall the current onboard drivers.
Disable your antivirus and shut down. Unplug from the wall and open your case.
Physically install the new card in the pci-e x16 slot.
Start up and go into your bios and set graphics priority to pci-e (probably listed as PEG) instead of the onboard.
Save and exit, reboot tapping F8 (usually) to get to the boot selection menu. Yours may be a different key combination, may have to check the manual, but F8 usually does the trick.
Select to boot in vga mode, if that is not available, select safe mode. 
Install the drivers, either with the ones from the disc that came with the card, or with the latest, which you would have previously downloaded had I the foresight to mention it earlier.
Reboot into normal mode, turn your antivirus back on and you should be good to go. If you have problems with the driver install, it may be necessary to disable antispyware as well.

edit - Another thing that can help with sticky installs, is to run driver sweeper when in vga or safe mode and just before installing the new drivers. Sometimes the remnants of the old can conflict, but it isn't strictly necessary to run it, unless you are going from ATI to nVidia, or vice versa.


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

Hello there Grim,

I actually picked up the card after work from the Fry's down the street; they had a 20 dollar rebate and I was very interested to try out the install. Got a liiiiittle too anxious to see how things went. 

I did it a little differently, and did not uninstall the onboard drivers prior to installation. I did however perform the whole process of unplugging, opening the case, grounding etc, knocked out that metal piece, installed into the x16 slot, plugged my new PSU into the card, plugged my monitor plugs into the card, started up, restarted, set priority to pci-e, loaded in, restarted, installed what came on the disc, and so on.

I do hope that not uninstalling the onboard and not booting into vga mode won't leave me with any issue. I understand that some uninstall and others don't, or some install the cd first and then install the card. I just followed the instructions provided with the card that indicated I can install the disc after. I avoided letting Windows install drivers automatically, and installed from the disc instead.


It works very well at this point. I've run it with counter strike 1.6 and wow so far, and it's better than I'd ever imagined. Here's to hoping it will stay that way  I ran so many years with onboard graphics for any system I've had that I've just grown used to the quality of it. It's not like they're terrible, which is a large part of why I've stuck to them as long as I have. But I didn't realize that it would be this much smoother and that it would change the realism this drastically


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

It's not a big deal, most of the time you can do a quick install and have no issues. Those occasional "sticky" installs is when you need to go the extra mile to get it working properly. I've gotten into the habit of doing the whole process all the time, save myself from having to install twice now and again. When you change the graphics chipset manufacturer (ATI/nVidia) is the only time that it's pretty well a must. 
Glad to hear it's working well, amazing difference eh, onboard is fine for normal surfing and email and stuff, but just doesn't give you what you need in games, it's so much more detailed and smooth with a decent card. Hope it lasts you a long time and you get the maximum enjoyment from it.


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## Jesslets (Jan 3, 2009)

Thank you!

It would make sense that you'd have to worry more with the different brands...I'm very glad I stuck with Nvidia

I will say that once installed and once I had updated with the drivers from the disc, I checked my Nvidia control panel and everything noted the 9800 as the card I was dealing with. I then went into my device driver and found that my display adapter is now my 9800 - there is no other card listed, but that is where my onboard used to appear. I also checked my display settings>advanced and checked to see that there also the card is the 9800. Looks good so far

Thanks SO much for the help, you've been awesome!


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

Thank you, and you're very welcome. Everything sounds great, the only graphics adapter showing should be the one that's currently installed and working. Only time you see two is when there's two installed. 
Lot of interesting reading around these parts, who knows, next computer you might be wanting to build one from the ground up.


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