# 2019 Recommended Build List Comments



## LordVoldemort (Feb 25, 2019)

I think you guys should re-check these new builds once.

Intel i5 and i7 9th generation are out already but none of them builds are using these processors, same with Nvidia GTX 1660 series and Z390 series motherboards.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: TSF Recommended Builds 2019 Comments*

I was aware of the presence of 9th gen cpus but we don't reshuffle everything because of the addition of a new cpu line mainly because there aren't yet a lot of boards available and those that are in the beginning are usually quite expensive.
The other reason is jumping right on the newest cpu isn't also what the average user does besides.
I also need to add that to use i9 boards mostly requires bios update which is a scary situation for most builders and only the really competent ones will go ahead and flash a bios to accommodation a new cpu!


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## LordVoldemort (Feb 25, 2019)

*Re: TSF Recommended Builds 2019 Comments*



Rich-M said:


> The other reason is jumping right on the newest cpu isn't also what the average user does besides.


The average user tries to save some bucks while not compromising on the performance, why would anyone buy i5 8600K not i5 9600k when they both cost the same?

Here in my region, i7 8700K and i7 9700K are just 6 dollars apart, anyone from here would obviously buy 9700K.

GTX 1660 Ti and 1070 have very similar performance, 1660 Ti is based on the newer Turing architecture and uses GDDR6 memory and costs lesser than 1070.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I moved this thread out of the Suggested Builds list and closed that thread as that is not the place for personal discussions of components used.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

As Shakespeare said "Things are not always what they seem". Counterfeit computer parts appear, particularly in countries that have lax or non existent laws or enforcement. i7-8700K lists for $34 less and if a buyer can find a really good deal on one, the performance is outstanding and would be a bargain compared to average price of the i7 9700K.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: TSF Recommended Builds 2019 Comments*



LordVoldemort said:


> The average user tries to save some bucks while not compromising on the performance, why would anyone buy i5 8600K not i5 9600k when they both cost the same?
> 
> Here in my region, i7 8700K and i7 9700K are just 6 dollars apart, anyone from here would obviously buy 9700K.
> 
> GTX 1660 Ti and 1070 have very similar performance, 1660 Ti is based on the newer Turing architecture and uses GDDR6 memory and costs lesser than 1070.


Maybe where you are they would buy the 8700K but I sure wouldn't. More boards will use the 8700K for less money and we write these builds for the average user, not the enthusiast. And here there is a $40 difference between the 87600K ($369)and 9700K ($409). Prices are from Newegg.

I don't disagree with you on the 1660ti though I haven't had a chance to try one yet and I like to recommend what I have used and I do like the pricing on the 1660ti but the 1070 is an established winner is all. The builds are suggestions n ot set in stone, feel free to use whatever you feel good about. We are all volunteers here and do the best we can with our spare time.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Actually Corday also brings up an excellent point in that the cpu out longer will be found at even better prices simply because they have been available longer and have a more widespread distribution.


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## LordVoldemort (Feb 25, 2019)

*Re: TSF Recommended Builds 2019 Comments*

Let's talk about my country first.



Rich-M said:


> Maybe where you are they would buy the 8700K but I sure wouldn't.


I guess you wanted to write 9700K here.

Why wouldn't you buy 9700K when it costs only $6 more here? Like you said more boards will use 8700K but let me tell you these Z370 boards support 9700K as well.


Now let's talk about the average user.

I see you're using a graphics card that launched way back in 2013. I used my previous build for 8 years so we can assume here that average users keep their PC for at least 5 years, right?

No matter how long life of 8700K is, no matter how long life of 1070 is, we can say 9700K and 1660 Ti would run at least a year more than their previous generation counterparts. 
If you're saving $40 on the CPU, you're spending over $80 on the GPU so basically you're paying more for the parts that would last a year less.

Nvidia's official product page of 1660 Ti says "performance that rivals 1070*". Newer architecture, faster memory, cheaper I'd definitely go for 1660 Ti no matter how established performer 1070 is.



Rich-M said:


> We are all volunteers here and do the best we can with our spare time.


I appreciate your work, Rich.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

No I meant 8700 because the other thing I didn't say is I seldom like to jump on newest hardware myself so for me it isn't the money as much as the time or seasoning.
I only bought my first Gen 9 cpu a week ago and probably won't use it for several months in rotation. While many Z370 boards will use Gen 9 I would bet most would require bios upgrades first and that is something I do not want to deal with myself personally. I buy boards that were made for a given cpu only not ones adapted to do so as a general rule and I certainly do not want to see our users stuck figuring out how to upgrade bios to use a cpu on their first build.

As for video card I have never in my life spent what today's new prime video cards cost, don't want to be the first on new hardware (as I had some bad experiences in the past doing so) and there is no reason to as there is nothing today that an R9 280X won't do that I do, it is one of the best video cards ever produced and has stood the test of time. Now I also seldom have the time for gaming but this card from my understanding and slight experience will game with the best of them anyway.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

> While many Z370 boards will use Gen 9 I would bet most would require bios upgrades first and that is something I do not want to deal with myself personally.


AMD boards, perhaps, but not Intel.


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

Masterchiefxx17 said:


> AMD boards, perhaps, but not Intel.



Here is an example of a Z370 board where you would need at least bios F10 (Gigabyte Z370 Aorus) to be able to install and boot with a 9th generation processor like 9700k or 9900k.

https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/Z370-AORUS-Gaming-7-rev-10#support-cpu


It worked the same way with the Z87 and Devil's Canyon (4790k & 4690k) ~ Devil's Canyon Haswell where the Z97 boards would accept Devil's Canyon by default but the Z87 needed a bios update. Z370's usually don't have a bios installed ready for 9th gen processors whereas Z390 boards accept by default.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Really funny, someone needs to clue in the maker as tonight on two different stations I have seen Intel ads for Gen 8 processors on TV.


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

You may want to update your Intel section with the new 9* series and AMD with the new 3* series processors, complete with some of the new x570 boards and how to update the BIOS with older AMD boards for new Ryzen processors.

In addition, you could add better mid-grade and high end boards instead of using the same motherboard for several builds. 

Just a tip.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

The build suggestions are updated annually. Anything more should not be expected of our voluntary staff.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

The Ryzen cpus are quite new and require X570 brand new boards for use which all they adds is PCIe 4.0 vs PCIe 3.0 which will take 3-4 from now years for full saturation anyway. Existing AMD boards could have handled new cpus making more boards available for choice at better prices making this look like its only about money frankly.


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

^Some of the B450 boards, X370's,and X470's are coming out so I hear with compliant BIOS's for the new processors but they are not *marked* as such on the retail boxes so you would never know. I believe that AMD is probably making sure that existing AMD stock e.g 1200-2700 will be sold off instead of users investing in only the newest tech immediately, which makes sense.

Currently B450 and even some X470 boards my not be beefy enough in terms of active cooling for the 3900x 12c/24t CPU or power delivery for that model. Hence we see active cooling on some of the new X570 boards. X570 boards are very expensive and believe it or not makes going Intel more appealing for some users especially if it would be the users only PC since most of the Intel offerings come with iGPU (in case your dedicated GPU fails or in a new build doesn't start you can use it). That said the 3700x is an easy transition to those that already own older AM4 motherboards with something like a 1200-1300-1500-1600x and all they need is a simple BIOS update to run a band spanking new 3700x


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

SpareChange said:


> ^Some of the B450 boards, X370's,and X470's are coming out so I hear with compliant BIOS's for the new processors but they are not *marked* as such on the retail boxes so you would never know. I believe that AMD is probably making sure that existing AMD stock e.g 1200-2700 will be sold off instead of users investing in only the newest tech immediately, which makes sense.
> 
> Currently B450 and even some X470 boards my not be beefy enough in terms of active cooling for the 3900x 12c/24t CPU or power delivery for that model. Hence we see active cooling on some of the new X570 boards. X570 boards are very expensive and believe it or not makes going Intel more appealing for some users especially if it would be the users only PC since most of the Intel offerings come with iGPU (in case your dedicated GPU fails or in a new build doesn't start you can use it). That said the 3700x is an easy transition to those that already own older AM4 motherboards with something like a 1200-1300-1500-1600x and all they need is a simple BIOS update to run a band spanking new 3700x


I actually made such a decision recently for the reason you suggest and it felt a bit odd at the time. I could not decide between a 9700K Intel system or a 3700X Ryzen system and I chose the Intel because there were less expensive good boards available for the Intel cpu and it felt backwards considering history always made the AMD system less expensive.


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

One thing to mention is that select AMD MSI and Asus boards have BIOS flashback. That means you can flash the BIOS with just the power supply hooked up and nothing else before any processor is installed. It means you can install a new 3*** processor with the older board without an older Ryzen processor. As of yet ASrock, Gigabyte do not have this feature.

Here is a short list_ (source @ AMD REDDIT)
ASUS (USB BIOS Flashback)
ASUS Crosshair VI Extreme
ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
ASUS Crosshair VI Hero (Wi-Fi AC)
ASUS Crosshair VII Hero
ASUS Crosshair VII Hero (Wi-Fi)
Gigabyte (Q-Flash Plus)
None!
MSI (Flash BIOS Button) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTkXunUAriE]
MSI B450 Gaming Plus
MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC
MSI B450 Tomahawk
MSI B450-A Pro
MSI B450M Bazooka Plus
MSI B450M Gaming Plus
MSI B450M Mortar
MSI B450M Mortar Titanium
MSI X370 Gaming M7 ACK
MSI X370 XPower Gaming Titanium
MSI X470 Gaming M7 AC


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Thanks so much for that. I was actually surprised to see I could flash bios from bios recently on an Intel board where I had a cpu but one that was not really recognized on the board I was using. I discovered that quite by accident. I could not install Windows 10 on the board because the cpu was not really recognized but I could flash the bios to newest version and then install Windows 10. That occurred with an Inteli7 9700K cpu and AS Rock Z370 Pro 4 board but I had never read that was possible which is why I had an earlier cpu available in case I needed it but never used it.


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

Rich-M said:


> Thanks so much for that. I was actually surprised to see I could flash bios from bios recently on an Intel board where I had a cpu but one that was not really recognized on the board I was using. I discovered that quite by accident. I could not install Windows 10 on the board because the cpu was not really recognized but I could flash the bios to newest version and then install Windows 10. That occurred with an Inteli7 9700K cpu and AS Rock Z370 Pro 4 board but I had never read that was possible which is why I had an earlier cpu available in case I needed it but never used it.


Asrock has a nice inside the BIOS update utility, you are running now the same board I told you I was using with the 9700k and it's compatible with the 9700k out of the box no need to update. What BIOS were you running initially and what is the version you are running now, and how is it working under load with stress testing?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Sorry I messed up the story it was the MSI Mortar board sent to me as a replacement board by MSI I had tried to use with the 9700K where I did the bios upgrade to make the cpu compatible with it but it turned out that board was bad though I did flash the bios effectively first, that just didn't make the build work is all. I also flashed the bios of the AS Rock Z370 Pro 4 in the flash utility before ever doing anything else for another reason and I got the stories confused.The AS Rock board we apparently share came with 3.20 bios version and I upped it to 4.30 (newest) to be certain the 9700K would run with it as the box said compatible with IntelGen 8 cpus which alarmed me. The memory used was 3000 speed Corsair which the bios read as 2100 which was what made me notice older bios so I oc'd that to 3200 and the cpu to 4.2 after the flash. I ran Prime 95 and all seemed well though I had planned originally to do at least 4.4 on the cpu and more on the ram but it runs so nicely for what I do ( which is lite duty stuff) I never went any further. I do have a Gammax 300 hsf on the cpu before you ask? I love this build and I share time with an Msi Mortar board with an 8700K i7 on that one and both use M2.2 WD 256 Gb drives and 16 Gb ram and what I was trying to do was have an equal experience on each since I spend half the day on each when I am online as they are in 2 different rooms.


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## SpareChange (Mar 7, 2019)

Sounds awesome. Both my 9700k Intel system and 2700x AMD system are sold. Currently using a 2600x with an Asrock micro. Parts on order for a few more builds within this month.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Good for you. I personally love the micro boards because we don't often use any of the other ports an Atx board would have and the micro gives you a nice space to work on the system inside a mid size case.


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## steve32mids (Jun 27, 2012)

Corday said:


> As Shakespeare said "Things are not always what they seem". Counterfeit computer parts appear, particularly in countries that have lax or non existent laws or enforcement. i7-8700K lists for $34 less and if a buyer can find a really good deal on one, the performance is outstanding and would be a bargain compared to average price of the i7 9700K.


Yes I heard about the graphics cards scam on ebay about someone buying a card which had been coded to act like an expensive card but really the card was worth about $50!!


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