# How do I use a router? When I have a router from my internet company already?



## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

I feel like such a noob lol I like to play around with old computers. Someone gave me netgear N 600 Wireless Dual Band Router. How in the heck do I use this thing? lol I'm embarrassed to ask :uhoh:

Can I use my netgear router as like a usb wireless network adapter? And just plug my desktops into that using an Ethernet card and get internet? 

Iv'e talked to my internet provider. Good old AtT and they said I have to continue renting their router. 

Please fill me in


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

Your isp may have certain rules which I have never heard if such a thing though. You can use any router you wish to connect to the internet as long as it has the correct info read this Using My Own Router - Can it Improve Performance?


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

As for how to use the router, you can read up about it here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.downloads.netgear.com%2Ffiles%2FGDC%2FWNDR3400V2%2FWNDR3400v2_UM_23JAN2013.pdf&ei=aAGfVcKmCIejyQTWw77ACg&usg=AFQjCNGOmpmQZnTQu8zl_pXWquUqw5RxYQ&sig2=G3SRaXicW8ovGdNAwYe2JQ&bvm=bv.97653015,d.aWw


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

Thank You. Iv'e never tried one. I have AtT service and I actually spoke with them about buying my own modem so I didn't have to rent theirs. And they said I could not buy one and replace theirs. So I have to keep on renting theirs. So today we switched to a different company ;-) Well the service won't be until Monday. But they actually have a modem I can buy and not have to pay them the monthly rental fee. And then I suppose I will setup my router as well. I'm hoping with the new company I can setup in my office. And not like how it is with the other company in our living room.:dance:


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

That most likely isn't right from the AT&T rep. Most ISPs will only charge you for the modem if you are currently have it. If you return it, they will stop the charges.

I recommend you buy your own modem, not any modem provided from the ISP.

What company did you go for?


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

Switched to time warner for a lot cheaper. :dance:

I will be purchasing my modem :flowers:


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

You can use something like this:

Amazon.com: ARRIS / Motorola SurfBoard SB6141 DOCSIS 3.0 Cable Modem - Retail Packaging - White: Electronics

It's what I use.


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

is that for time warner cable? If so I will be purchasing it ;-) please let me know Thanks! :thumb:


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Yes, I use Time Warner Cable too and as long as the modem is on their check list, you're all good to go.

Network Improvements for Time Warner Cable

I fixed the link above, so the modem is correct on which one to purchase in my last post.


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

Thank You Very much. Why rent one from them when you can buy one of your own. Maybe I can even purchase one before the tech comes out to install the internet service? I wonder if we would use it to install the service. If they are allowed? Ive heard it can be a pain to setup your modem using their service by yourself. Never really looked into it before. 

:thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

you shouldn't really need someone to come and install your service, most of the time you just set up your router. Type in the ip address to link to the service and thats it.

Although I am in the UK I use my ISP router but whats good about my isp is that they dont make you install a cd or do anything like that. You plug in the router, connect to the internet it goes to their ip address which is on the router by default and then you type in your password change it and thats it set.

Some ISPs expect you to install a cd which contains bloatware which you dont need. My friend is on another isp to me and he said he was waiting for someone to come and set it up which contained installing a cd in his pc and connecting it to the phone line. I did it for him without the cd by just googling the ip address I needed.


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

Nice. I always wondered about their software being installed on your computer.
I'm in the good old USA. We do things strange here lol "Ain't that the truth" lol

:angel: 

Yeah they insist on a tech coming so they can charge you an "Install service charge" I suppose.....


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

thats wrong imo, when my isp said they would come round I said **** off it's just another way for them to get money out of you. When they questioned me I plainly said you are gtting my money monthly for you being my isp you should be grateful now dont bother me ever again. It worked.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

That's not really how it works here either...

Unlike the UK, the US has many different ISP providers depending on where you are. AT&T (Satellite company) is found nation wide, while cable companies change depending on the location. TWC, Charter, and Comcast being some of the biggest for cable. Then there is Verizon and Google who offer Fios.

When its time for installation for cable, they will come to your house, activate the cable connection that leads to your house from the local distribution boxes in your local neighborhood and provide you with a modem and router if need be. Most of the time setup service is included in the package you order.

If you wish not to use the ISP equipment you can decline it and use your own; as I do and many others as well. With Time Warner Cable you must have a modem on their approved list so that it can communicate with the ISP.

They won't need to touch your machine as long as you know how to connect to your router.


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## BowHunter41 (Apr 19, 2015)

Not only connect but you have to call them up and _provision_ that modem. Only takes a few minutes though. The router you would then hook up the main cable from the cable modem (after the provisioning) to the router WAN port. Usually that port has a different color. You then simply run a cat 5 cable from a regular router port to your PC. Power everything down. PC/Router/Cable Modem - in fact unplug everything from the power brick. Let it sit a minute. Plug it all back in and power up the router should work fine with your connection. You would then to go your router logon page and logon with (usually) admin/admin, then to the settings page and change the password immediately. Reboot the modem. Logon again with the new password. Change or turn off any wireless for now if you're not going to use it so the signal will not be broadcasted.

Later you can change/hide SSID once you decide to use wireless and set the encryption method.

These are just the basics to get started.


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

Now I have a netgear N600 Dual Band Router Model WNDR3400v2 would this work with a Motorola cable modem? Such as the Aries/Motorola SB6141???


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

It's an older router (may want to look for an upgrade) for should do just fine.


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok yeah I figured it was older. I had it sitting in a box in the closest lol Somebody gave it to me a while back. Ok I purchased a ARRIS/Motorola SB6121 SURFboard DOCSIS 3.0 Cable Modem. Was actually the last one left. I hope this one works for a bit. That link I was sent looks like a pretty good deal on Amazon for 80 bucks. Well this will have to do for now I suppose :flowers:


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

Well I got service but I'm having issues. The internet works with the modem I bought. But when the tech hooked up my router no internet. Then the tech unplugged the router and went back to Ethernet from modem to desktop computer. Which worked fine. Tech said my Ethernet cable for the router most be old and bad. Tech left. I tried the router with a new Ethernet wire and still no internet? I'm going to see if I can find some software to download for the router. Maybe that will work? Please help Thanks Tom :thumb:


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

I was on live chat with Time Warner cable almost all day after the tech left ;-(

After trying several different things and them "adding my router" to my account, whatever that means 

They told me I have to wait 24 hours before the account is active 

That was after talking to 3 different workers....

Thank God I didn't cancel my other internet service just yet....

Wish I test my router some how to see if it is ok and works,,,,


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

How are you setting up the router? Connecting the Ethernet port to the modem then port 1 to your PC?


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

Yes sir exactly what you said. When the tech left the modem was hooked up to the computer using an Ethernet cord. However the router was not hooked up. I didn't even notice. She was having me sign a paper and out the door. Explaining my router wouldn't work because the Ethernet cord she tried was to old and broken. So I replaced that Ethernet cord with a new one I had. My router was still not working. I contacted Time Warner cable via chat. They had me try a few things but we could not get the router working. Then after talking to one of their reps I walked back in my office and noticed the cable modem was blinking blue lights. I tried google chrome and it said the internet was disconnected. I got a network card and put it in a usb slot on my desktop and started another chat with Time Warner cable explaining that now not only was my router not working but my cable modem was not working and I had no internet now. They told me to wait 14 hours. After trying a few things. So today after 24 hours i tried the internet and still nothing. I did the online chat with Time Warner again and now they are saying they will have to send a tech out. and they tried charging me 30 bucks lol I said no way! They waved it. But now no tech till Sunday! 

Unless i can get a hold of the sub contractor company that actually sent their tech to do my installation. I tried them and the rep their told me they would call me back in 30 minutes to an hour. They did not call ;-( I will be trying to call them this morning.

What a process just to get internet lol Geez....

Any thoughts or ideas please feel free to share :thumb:

Thank god I didn't cancle my [email protected] service yet :nono:


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Keep us updated. Hopefully the tech can figure it all out.


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## Tdoggy187 (Feb 26, 2010)

Just to update you guys I finally have internet ;-) It took 3 different visits for the technicians to finally get it set up right. They taught me how to name my network and change the password. Which I did :smile: The internet and router both having been working great for over a week now :dance:


Thank You all for your help!!!! Much appreciated 

Next I will be asking you guys about putting a computer together ;-)
I recently bought a few old machines that are still working but some need a power supply and hard drive and so on. I will need some guidance ;-)

Thanks again!!! :thumb:


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Glad to hear! :smile:

We can certainly help with building a PC too!


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## Nei1 (Dec 19, 2006)

Hey Tdoggy,

You know, you're not really done until you feel confident about going into the modem and router settings and playing with them willy nilly. Are you comfortable, yet?

Both the modem and router have web interfaces, which means you enter the IP addresses of the devices into your browser's address field, and their adjustments are displayed as "webpages." Homework assignment #1 is to make browser bookmarks for both devices, so you can get into both of their web interfaces easily.

After you've memorized their IP addresses, you won't need the bookmarks anymore.

I have the same SB6121 modem that you have. It's been through the war, it still works fine after a few years of being on almost continually. Looking it up on Amazon and Newegg to see what comments people have been making about it is always an entertaining pastime.

The default URL to get into that modem is 192.168.100.1, and I don't think that can be changed. No problem if you could change it. In fact, with all the malware and spyware around these days, if it could be changed, maybe it should be changed.

The modem doesn't have a lot of adjustments, so you can't get into too much trouble looking around its web interface to see it read out its parameters. I see I'm using 4 upstream and 4 downstream channels, which I think is max for this modem. The 6141 (the 6121's big brother) has 8 downstream channels I think, which is why our modem can do about 170 Mbits/sec, and the 6141 can to about 340 Mbits/sec, as best as I can recall off the top of my head.

My service recently got bumped up to 50 Mbits/sec, and a newer modem wouldn't get me any benefit.

The modem's web interface says it's getting 37 or 38 dB signal to noise ratio on each downstream channel, with 1 or 2 dBmv signal level on each channel, which is just right. Get the specs on the modem; it wants to see 0 dBmV on each channel, +/- 15 dB (so, -15 to +15 dBmv). But I've heard it said that if you can keep it to 0 dBmv +/- 5 dB, then it's advantageous. I was getting about 12 or 13 dBmV on each channel, but I put a couple of splitters in cascade, and got it down to 1 or 2 dBmV. Make sure you orient the splitters so that you don't introduce noise into the upstream signal. (If you ask nice, I'll tell you what that means.)

Also, the specs are almost ambiguous about what signal level the modem can put out on the upstream side, and the maximum levels are different depending on which modulation type the upstream signal is. Fortunately, the modem's web interface will tell you what modulation type it's transmitting upstream, and what its levels are on each channel, and then you can cross-reference those levels to the modem's specified maximum output. If the modem is putting out the maximum signal, then something is wrong. It should be regulated, stable, and happy at an output less than maximum.

When the modem is first powered up, the upstream signal is received by the cable system's "headend." Then, the headend will send a signal back to your modem to tell it to increase or decrease its upstream level in order to make the headend happy. If the system was designed properly and everything between your modem and the headend is working right, your modem should be coasting along with an upstream signal 'less than' its maximum rated level.

My modem's web interface says that my 4 upsteam channels are 49, 49, 48, and 46 dBmV, using QPSK / 64 QAM. The maximum level it could generate, if I recall correct, is 65 dBmV, so it's putting out well below the maximum upstream levels its capable of, which is good. The headend said "a little more... a little less... that's good right there), and my modem settled on about 49 dBmV out, which is much less than its maximum output.

I don't really see anything you can do with the modem besides read its parameters, restart it, and reset it to default. I don't want to reset anything to default. I don't even want to do a simple reset, because sometimes it takes a day or two for all those 4-channel streams to re-activate, leaving me with only one or two channels instead of all 4 until everything finally synchs, or whatever it does.

And then, there's the router.

There's malware out there, so you want to change the access to the router's web interface (at least change the default password, and the default username too if it can be changed). 

Access to the router's web interface should be set to different loggin names and passwords than the wifi loggin and password.

And of course, the wifi loggin and password should be changed from the factory default. You should get comfortable with setting the SSID, choosing the highest level of security (WAP2), and it's nice to make a complex wifi password that you can remember somehow.

I don't remember but a few of my complex passwords, but my wifi password is one of them. Wifi is broadcast "over the air" and it's fruit for intruders, invaders, and eavesdroppers, so make your wifi password especially complex.

Use your computer's wifi client to monitor for a few days or weeks which channels your neighbors' routers are set to. (Remember "View Available Wireless Networks" in your computer's system tray?) When you get a good idea which channel is most lightly used, set your router to use it. Channels 1, 6, and 11 are preferred, if you can limit your choice to one of those. Google to see why you should stick to 1, 6, or 11, especially if you like reading radio theory.

You especially want to avoid strong signals. If there's only a weak signal on Channel 6, then feel free to set your modem to Channel 6. If he's weak at your location, you're also weak at his location, so you won't interfere with each other.

In the router settings, you can change the IP address of its web interface. I haven't changed mine. Maybe I should, just for security's sake.

When the router is turned on, it says Hello to the cable system, and the cable system replies by giving your router a unique public IP address. Your public IP address is used by other computers on the world wide web to send you data.

And when your computers connect to the router, the router will assign each one a local (or private) IP address. When a computer requests something from the web, it will send the request to the router, the router will remember which of your local computers made the request, and when the response comes back from the web, the router will deliver it to your appropriate computer by using the appropriate local IP address.

There are a billion computers behind routers with a private IP address of 192.168.0.1. But they are not directly addressed by the world wide web. If the web wants to talk to one of those computers, it addresses the router with its unique public IP address, and the router will deliver the message to the appropriate local computer.

You can check wikipedia for "private IP addresses," to see their ranges. Private IP addresses are a small subset of all IP addresses. The ones that aren't private are public; duh.

The web interface IP addresses of our modems and routers are private IP addresses. I mean, when we use our browsers to talk to our routers, we use the router's local IP address. Contrast when someone on the worldwide web talks to our routers, they use our router's public IP addresses.

By the way, the world is running out of unique, public, IPV4, IP addresses. That's why our modems can handle IPV4 and the newfangled IPV6 with trillions more addresses than IPV4. When our cable systems upgrade to IPV6, our modems are ready. I'm not sure about your router -- research it; the manual will say if your router is IPV6-ready.

Remember, it's the router that gets assigned the public IP address for your abode by the cable system. (The modem is just a pass-through.) And ask your cable system if they have any plans to switch to IPV6. If the cable system tries to give your router an IPV6 [public] IP address and your router isn't capable, then they will let you keep using an IPV4 address... for a while.

So if you want to know what your public IP address is, you have to go into the router's web interface, where it will tell you, deep down in some menu, somewhere, because it's the router that got assigned the public IP address by the cable system. Otherwise, there are services on the internet where you can ask "What is my IP address?" and they will respond with a webpage that tells you what your public IP address is. Either that or find out your public IP address by querying the router's web interface.

Back on your computer, there's a command-line command, "ipconfig," which will display the computer's IP address. But the computer's IP address is a local IP address assigned by the router. The computer doesn't know what your public IP address is -- that's held by the router further upstream.

I hear your router is old. There will be a function for updating the router's firmware. Research it and do it, for security's sake, if not also for stability. You might have to browse to the manufacturer's website and download a file onto your hard drive, and then tell the router to download the file from your hard drive into its firmware. Newer routers have a button you can click on, at least, to get a quick check to see if new firmware is available.

A few other functionalities in the router. Poke around. Use wikipedia to help find out what stuff means if you don't understand something. Some stuff will be understandable. Some stuff won't (blame it on the teacher). Some stuff will not be easy, but one day you'll need it, and you'll have to understand it as best as possible, at least to get it working (such as port forwarding). 

And you probably don't have to be told to avoid changing stuff in the router that you have no idea what it means.

And now, it's getting late and I have to take my lithium, although I like having written.

Best luck,
-neil-


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