# Gas Pump Constantly Shuts Off During Refueling



## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi. . .

I have a 1999 Lincoln Continental; 89,000 miles; original owner.

Starting about ~2 months ago, whenever I attempt to fill my car up, the gas pump shuts off every few seconds, requiring the attendant to start it again. He no sooner turns away - it clicks off again. The rate of flow of gas from the pump makes no difference whatsoever. These constant shut-offs tick the attendants off and they give up. (New Jersey has full-service gas only; no self-serve by law). 

Recently, with the tank @ 1/4, the attendant yells "you full" after just $4.00 and at least 12 shut-offs. I took over and it resulted in an agonizing 10++ minutes to fill the tank, trying everything you can imagine with the gas pump - position, flow rate, etc... and it constantly shuts off the flow as if to indicate the tank is full.

I have tried different gas stations and different pumps - all with the same result.

I have Googled this and see a variety of solutions, but I don't know anything about car mechanics (Wrench97 can verify this!) and always end up ruining something on the few occasions I attempted self-repair. I obviously don't want to take the car to Lincoln for repairs due to the cost.

"Solutions" like this are asinine and are definitely not the answer as I've been putting gas in this same car the same way for 15 years now! 


> Today's gas pumps deliver fuel at a pretty fast rate and if your fuel tank neck is not straight (which on these cars it probably isn't) you will get splash-back and it will click the pump off. You either need to go at a slower rate by not squeezing the handle as much or buy a funnel and fill using that. Hope this helps.


http://lincolnforums.com/forums/thr...lling-Tank-TANK-IS-NOT-FULL?p=18635#post18635

I am finding more answers like this (please see posts #4, 5, 7) related to a clogged venting hose for fuel vapors - http://lincolnforums.com/forums/thr...lling-Tank-TANK-IS-NOT-FULL?p=25439#post25439

Many theories in this thread - http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...l-the-gas-tank&p=872400&viewfull=1#post872400 

Any suggestions?

Thank you,

John


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Not sure on Conti, but some cars have a breather hose along side the filler tube. You have to look under the car to see it. If it's plugged, that's the problem. I'll refrain from jokes about high speed driving.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

On most cars today, the breather tube is inside the outer tube, On some, the outside tube is the breather and the filler is actually a smaller tube inside that, this is the way most fords are today. 
Open the fuel door, should be 3 screws around the outside of the filler, loosen them and pull on the tube to see if you can reach the hose clamp on the outer tube. Sometimes you need to reach up from under the car, other times can get from the trunk, but most often through the filler door. When you get that loose, work the end off and slide it partway out. should be either a smaller rubber hose or a corrugated plastic tube on the back. If there isn't use a flashlight and look in the big hose.

If you see it inside, what I normally do is grab an old bottle brush and slip it inside it to pull the hose out, sometimes you just push the hose deeper, but normally the bottle brush goes in and the bristles flex back with enough strength to pull it out enough to reconnect it. 

They often get pushed off by someone trying to siphon gas.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

jcgriff, other than the slow fuel fills, does the car run fine?


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

I would be looking at the rubber hose that connects the filler neck to the tank too.

BG


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

Midnight Tech said:


> jcgriff, other than the slow fuel fills, does the car run fine?


Yes - very well in fact.

New tires, battery, lower-control arm and overall thorough check by Firestone in April 2014. Made a recent 350+ mile trip; speeds hit triple digits at one point. No stalling, hesitation or other problems at all.

One variable that I'm not sure if it matters or not -- the car was in a LF head-on collision in May 2014 requiring ~$5k retail body repairs (LF fender, front bumper, left headlamp assembly, hood - all replaced + "straightening" - not sure what, though). It took 2 weeks to fix.

Could the accident have jolted something? 

Cold weather? 

Also, this is the first year out of the last 5 or so that I have not experienced stalling when the switch-over to ethanol blended gas commenced. The O2 sensor was replaced at least 2x in the last ~5 years to fix the stalling. Another year- the car's first tune-up fixed the problem. As I mentioned - I was fully expecting stalling issues as October approached, but none this year for some reason.


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

kendallt said:


> On most cars today, the breather tube is inside the outer tube, On some, the outside tube is the breather and the filler is actually a smaller tube inside that, this is the way most fords are today.
> Open the fuel door, should be 3 screws around the outside of the filler, loosen them and pull on the tube to see if you can reach the hose clamp on the outer tube. Sometimes you need to reach up from under the car, other times can get from the trunk, but most often through the filler door. When you get that loose, work the end off and slide it partway out. should be either a smaller rubber hose or a corrugated plastic tube on the back. If there isn't use a flashlight and look in the big hose.
> 
> If you see it inside, what I normally do is grab an old bottle brush and slip it inside it to pull the hose out, sometimes you just push the hose deeper, but normally the bottle brush goes in and the bristles flex back with enough strength to pull it out enough to reconnect it.
> ...


I wish I was capable of doing this, but I am pre-op for a double hip replacement.

Firestone?

Any idea of what this would cost for them/other shop to check?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Some of these also have a check ball/valve in the inlet of the tank(to prevent fuel from running out in the event of a roll over accident), the tank and filler neck are going to have to come out. That's a couple hours of labor plus any parts that may be needed once the problem is found.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

jcgriff2 said:


> *I wish I was capable of doing this, but I am pre-op for a double hip replacement.
> *
> Firestone?
> 
> Any idea of what this would cost for them/other shop to check?


Please keep us updated on this!

Edit: 
jcgriff, go here and find a mechanic in your area - NAPA AutoCare Centers usually have good and fair mechanics.
NAPA AUTO PARTS - Find a Store


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Its not just your Lincoln, my city work truck is gas and does the exact same thing, I looked the breather tube is directly connected to the main fill line so when ever it fills " toot fast" it shuts off, 
I hope that helps out find out why yours does it


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

The accident could easily have shaken something loose. 

Just did a search for filler tube replacements, and they show both styles, the inner/outer hoses and separate vent/fill tubes so I have to say I'm at a loss now. 
Would definitely say it's in the filler/vent though. 

The good thing is that the filler can normally be pulled without dropping the tank and inspected or cleared.


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

This will have to wait until January when the car is going in for rear window defroster tab fix (solder).

I'll ask this same shop about this issue. They're reasonable $$ and smart.

Thanks to everyone for your input. 

John


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

in the meantime, might be faster to fill a 10 gallon can then pour into the tank


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

I don;t know it this will help you any at all but on my city work truck is a Chevy 3500 HD tool body with a gas engine, and it shuts off after 5 seconds of fueling every time, so heres what I do, turn the pump handle upside down and stay with it, note IT MAY NOT AUTOMATICALLY SHUT OFF WHEN FULL, if you do this, but thats what I have to do every three days,
which is another reason there are no GM products on my property


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Both Posts 13 & 14 work. The only change is to use a 5 gallon can. 10 Gallon = hernia.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The issue is probably with how the body manufacturer installed the GM filler neck, a lot of the time you'll find the hose is kinked.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

jcgriff2 said:


> This will have to wait until January when the car is going in for rear window defroster tab fix (solder).
> 
> I'll ask this same shop about this issue. They're reasonable $$ and smart.
> 
> ...


John, I've cross-posted on another board I'm on to see if we can get any ideas...


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## sobeit (Nov 11, 2007)

Midnight Tech said:


> John, I've cross-posted on another board I'm on to see if we can get any ideas...


so you think the ideas given here is worthless...:hide::hide::whistling::whistling::grin:


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

sobeit said:


> so you think the ideas given here is worthless...


No, seeing if they have any different ideas.
I know Ford at one time used a setup with the vent tube inside the filler neck (Ford Rangers) - that is what I feel to be the problem.


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Wrench97 said:


> The issue is probably with how the body manufacturer installed the GM filler neck, a lot of the time you'll find the hose is kinked.


the filler on my city truck is perfectly straight, problem is its as big around as a pencil, I have this theory that GM is making them way too small since every other vehicle in the world doesn't have that problem


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

Interesting visit at the gas pump tonight.

When the attendant got ticked off at the constant shut-offs, I once again exited the car to take over. But since outside temp was 20F, I first started the car to keep the heat going.

Surprisingly, I was able to fill the tank without the pump clicking off - nearly 16 gallons - gas pump going as fast as it could.

Did I just get lucky or does the fact that the car was running this time affect anything?

I will repeat this (leave car idling) next time to test.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

Possibly! Sounds like a vapor canister, purge valve, or one of the evap lines doing crazy things, jcgriff.
Waiting to see how it does next fillup.


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Sounds like that to me too MT, I'll try leaving the engine on in my city truck tomorrow and see it that works for me too, if it does we might be onto something here


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

wolfen1086 said:


> Sounds like that to me too MT, I'll try leaving the engine on in my city truck tomorrow and see it that works for me too, if it does we might be onto something here


But that city truck isn't that old, wolfen....it shouldn't be acting up that way!


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Midnight Tech said:


> But that city truck isn't that old, wolfen....it shouldn't be acting up that way!


Yea I know, it shouldn't shut of going down the road either, but guess what it does


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

Latest fill up - took ~18 gallons (20 gal tank) and the pump shut off just 1x prematurely -- car was idling during fill-up. Pump was going full-force.

Next time, I'll shut the car off and see what happens. :uhoh:


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

Sounds like we're onto something...


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Takes us back to a clogged vent.
When idling, the evap system has a valve that opens to the intake to clean fumes from the charcoal filter, which allows the gas tank to vent through it instead of the correct valve and vent. 
Normally all in the same evap system, but the 'vent' valve is typically under the car near the tank.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

Usually if that purge valve gets sick, the ECU will throw a code and turn on the MIL...


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

If the valve is working, but the vent is plugged, the valve won't throw a code. 

I think the best option would be getting a friend to spend some time crawling around under it.


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

If "a code was thrown" -- would it cause the Check Engine light to turn on?

Currently, the Check Engine light is not on.

If I could only get it to produce a kernel dump, then... :0

(Sorry... could not resist! -- Windbg sure does help me solve quite a few things in life!)


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Most problems turn on the check engine light, but not all do.
Quite often trouble codes that don't directly effect the running of the engine are just stored in memory. Most auto parts stores will do a scan for free, takes maybe 10-15 minutes total.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Since it happens when the car is off I don't see there being a code stored.


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Midnight Tech said:


> Usually if that purge valve gets sick, the ECU will throw a code and turn on the MIL...


A stuck purge valve is pretty common on certain vehicles, I'm thinking my wifes Ford F150 has a stuck valve, 

jcgriff2 Do you have a Haynes or Chiltons manual to show you where the Purge valve and vent line are at?


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

wolfen1086 said:


> jcgriff2 Do you have a Haynes or Chiltons manual to show you where the Purge valve and vent line are at?


No.


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Might want one of them, I always thought a purge valve was in the front until I looked under my wifes F150, Now I'm convinced that only God himself knows where they are at


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

Another full tank of gas while keeping the car running!

I think I'll wait until the Spring to try it with the car off! (Tooo cold!)


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Be careful with the engine running


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

I must have been a bad boy because Santa wasn't very nice to me this year & put the equivalent of coal in my stocking. . .

The Check Engine ("Service Engine Soon") light illuminated first thing Christmas morning and hasn't turned off since.

**

What a Christmas gift!


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Have the code read as soon as you can, if you don't have a reader most parts stores will read it for free


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

Bet it's the code for loose fuel cap...


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Ditto. Three cycles for it to go out.


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

If you can post teh coe on here, I have a book that lists all eth generic codes for most cars


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, I plan to get the Check Engine light situation taken care of next month (January).

On a side note - $39 worth of gas flew into my tank without incident tonight & the car *was not* running at the time. Go figure.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

Was it switched off completely?


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Along with was it switched off completely I have another question, did you use a different pump at a different gas station, or a different pump at the same place, take notice of the nozzle when you pump your gas some around here pump out more than the fill pipe on my city truck will allow to go down, thats why mine shuts off.
City garage said its a Chevrolet thing, but I know otherwise


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

Another eventless gas tank fill up w/car running.

However, this appeared on my LED dash screen when I got home:

```
[font=consolas]  GEAR
DISPLAY
DATA ERR
 ------ --[/FONT]
```
That ^^^^ appeared on the screen when I was turning the ignition off; remained displayed on screen because I did not fully turn off ignition upon hearing the tell-tale error/alarm "beep".

I immediately attempted to re-start vehicle; no problems.

Any idea what that message means? I Googled it, but don't really comprehend the various answers.

I haven't yet gotten the car in to get the "Service Engine Soon" checked yet; hopefully in the next week or so.

Thanks,

John


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

They're interconnected. When they do the exact code scan, the light can be put out and the precise gear problem will be solved since the mechanic will make the repair and present you with a hopefully not to large invoice.


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## bruiser (Jul 30, 2005)

If the car is a '96 or newer, Autozone and other national parts stores can pull the codes. Autozone can also give you a print out of the codes and what they mean. But, I'd still write them down.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

That sounds like a databus error in the PCM...I'd get the codes scanned quickly...and make sure they pull them for ALL systems. Sometimes they won't pull trans/powertrain codes.


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

So that message is associated with the transmission somehow?

I agree that I need to get the car in for proper diagnosis; just need to divert some resources ($) as I know that I definitely need new front brakes as well.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

That looks like a generic message for a display communication failure to me.

What does it say now the car has been shut off and restarted(rebooted)?


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## Warborg (Oct 27, 2011)

A little late coming here but I have a 76 Chevy Chevette that the pump shuts off while re-fueling. I found moving the nozzle to a different angle fixes this but doesn't shut off when it's full.


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## wolfen1086 (Oct 4, 2007)

Warborg said:


> A little late coming here but I have a 76 Chevy Chevette that the pump shuts off while re-fueling. I found moving the nozzle to a different angle fixes this but doesn't shut off when it's full.


That works on some new ones too, but not all


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

Wrench97 said:


> That looks like a generic message for a display communication failure to me.
> 
> What does it say now the car has been shut off and restarted(rebooted)?


Upon restart, the screen reset & displays the normal, usual messages and has done so since the error message displayed.

I've seen the same "gear" error message one other time about 2-3 months ago.



Warborg said:


> A little late coming here but I have a 76 Chevy Chevette that the pump shuts off while re-fueling. I found moving the nozzle to a different angle fixes this but doesn't shut off when it's full.


I have tried every angle imaginable, including upside down; same with the gas station(s) employees (who by NJ law are supposed to operate the pumps).


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

Just to update. . .

It's now been 13 months and the refueling phenomenon has completely gone away, thank God!


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