# need info on windows 10 backup workings



## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

I went through the basic procedures for using the built in backup system, but I am confused by a couple of things. 

First, I thought that the back up would happen automatically. But I does not seem to be doing that, because the day after I set for backup I get a message in a popup box on the task bar saying I should do a backup. 

Second, when I open up the external drive icon in "this PC" I see File History, but it is dated a month ago, and when I check the contents, they are from a month ago. Is File History my backup? 
Also listed is a file named after my computer with zero bytes. When I click on that a box opens asking how I would like to restore the system. What is this all about? 
Then there is a file called Windowsimagebackup, with 148GB in it. It is dated last Friday, the 15th. That sounds like a real backup, but I can't review the contents of the files. All that is shown are 14 files with alphanumeric titles, most of them with only a few kb. The large files sound like the true backup - they are identified as hard disc image files. But when I click to open to review them, the first action item is Mount (whatever that means).

What happened to a backup file that I can recognize as my stuff?


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*

This should explain File History: What happened to Backup and Restore? - Windows Help
If you are looking for more traditional Backup software, You may want to consider a 3rd party app like Easeus Todo Backup


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*



spunk.funk said:


> This should explain File History: What happened to Backup and Restore? - Windows Help
> If you are looking for more traditional Backup software, You may want to consider a 3rd party app like Easeus Todo Backup


Hello,

Thanks for your suggestions. I apologize for not replying earlier, but I have been under the weather for a couple of weeks now.

I followed the links that you provided and will see what I can do to make for an easy and dependable backup and recovery. 

I will get back to you when I am better, and when I have the system set up the way that I want it to be.


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*



spunk.funk said:


> This should explain File History: What happened to Backup and Restore? - Windows Help
> If you are looking for more traditional Backup software, You may want to consider a 3rd party app like Easeus Todo Backup


Hello,

I have recently been fumbling around with the backup and recovery system, managed to destroy (apparently) one Seagate external HD, and tried a couple of aftermarket backup systems, including EaseUS. Then I found out how to "tune" the file history function to get what I wanted, and not save what I did not want. I have successfully saved file history to another Seagate external HD, so all is well. I also made a reboot thumb drive. I suppose that I should make an system image in case Win 10 is lost-my next project. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

(BTW, I just could not figure out how to use the "Add folders" or "Delete folders" functions in the backup and recovery "More options" section.

Thanks very much for your help!


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*



> I just could not figure out how to use the "Add folders" or "Delete folders" functions in the backup and recovery "More options" section


 What software were you having a problem with, since you said you tried a couple? 
What did you do to the Seagate drive to have destroyed it? It is probably fixable. 
As for *System Image*, you can create a cloned System Image in Backup and Restore and save it to your external HDD. Or you can use EaseUS Todo backup to make an image.


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*

I tried Ease US and could not get it to save files to the external HD, just to the C drive. I also found their directions a little confusing, and then realized the instructions had been translated from Chinese. I decided not to go any further with them. 

Regarding the Seagate, I clicked on Format and the window that appeared indicated all was well. Then I looked to see that drive and it had disappeared. I tried changing usb ports, switching cables-neither worked. It appears to be dead.

How large would a system image be normally? If it isn't too big, I can put it on the thumb drive where the reboot is stored.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

dradile said:


> I tried Ease US and could not get it to save files to the external HD, just to the C drive. I also found their directions a little confusing, and then realized the instructions had been translated from Chinese. I decided not to go any further with them.
> 
> Regarding the Seagate, I clicked on Format and the window that appeared indicated all was well. Then I looked to see that drive and it had disappeared. I tried changing usb ports, switching cables-neither worked. It appears to be dead.
> 
> How large would a system image be normally? If it isn't too big, I can put it on the thumb drive where the reboot is stored.


I wonder where you looked for the user guide and found one translated from Chinese! Perhaps you just don't want to use third party software and prefer Windows' inbuilt tools, that's perfectly understandable. I also don't see why EASEUS ToDo Backup won't write to your external hard drive if it's at all functional and you selected it as the destination.
http://www.easeus.com/tutorial/tb-free-user-guide.html

About your supposedly dead hard drive, can you feel it spinning when you plug it in? Does your computer detect a connected device when you plug it in (a sound usually plays when it does, I know you're familiar with it)? Open Device Manager and plug in the hard drive. Device manager will automatically refresh its list of devices to include the ext hdd. Note if it appears with a yellow mark next to it. Additionally, open Disk Management while the ext hdd is plugged in and see if it appears in the list of disks at the bottom of the window. Take a screenshot of the window and post it here so we can have a look.


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## OldGrayGary (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*

Hi all

Lots of good suggestions already. 

I wanted to add another, that might make things easier with your external drives. There is a setting to have Windows 10 "show" your "empty drives". 
1) Right-click the Windows Start Menu icon
2) Select Control Panel
3) Make sure that Control Panel is set to show the Large Icons view. (In the upper right-hand corner, you can see "View by" highlighted in blue: you can choose Large Icons, Small Icons, and Category views. You can choose any of these, but I recommend Large Icons as the easiest to use.
4) Select File Explorer Options
5) Select the View tab
6) If you see a check mark in the option box Hide Empty Drives, click on the option box to remove the check mark.
7) Select Apply
8) Select OK

Just as a test, plug in the Seagate drive that you reformatted, and see if it now shows up in File Explorer.

If it doesn't show up there, see if it shows up in Disk Management:
1) Right-click the Windows Start Menu icon
2) Select Disk Management

Even an unformatted drive should show up in Disk Management. 

If the drive shows up in Disk Management, you should be able to run some diagnostics to see if the drive has failed or not. If you bought the drive at a store, it might have come with a bootable CD or DVD with "Sea Tools". You can use that to test the drive. If you would like instructions, or need to download a diagnostic, both guides and downloads are available from the Seagate site:
SeaTools | Seagate

__________________________

And, as far as backups go -- it doesn't matter which you choose - but I think that if your needs are fairly simple, the built-in backup functions of File History in Windows 10 can meet your needs easily. And since it is part of Windows, it will receive updates to keep it running well throughout the support cycle of Windows 10. 

As an example of how easy it is to use Windows 10's backup, here's all you need to do to make a backup system image:
1) Right-click the Windows Start Menu icon
2) Select Control Panel
3) Select File History
4) Select System Image Backup (in the lower left-hand corner, highlighted in blue)
5) Select Create System Image (and follow the simple, step-by-step instructions ... you can create the image on a DVD or an external drive).

Regardless of whatever backup you choose - you should only use one. It wouldn't do to have two or three backup programs fighting over access to your files.
______________________________

Note: the backup plans all spoken of in this thread so far are for LOCAL backups. Many users find that they can be happily served by ONLINE (sometimes called "cloud") backups. OneDrive is the online backup built-in to Windows 10. By virtue of owning a Windows 10 computer, you have at least 5 GB of free storage available there. If you also happen to have a recent version of Microsoft Office, your amount of online storage is considerably greater, all the way up to 1 TB for Office 365 subscribers.

Here are some links you can visit to read up on File History & Backups in Windows 10:
How to use Windows 10's File History backup feature | PCWorld
How To Work With File History In Windows 10, From The Settings App
Back up and restore your files - Windows Help

Here are some articles about online backup options:
Why you should use OneDrive with Windows 10 | Windows Central
https://onedrive.live.com/about/en-us/plans/
https://www.google.com/drive/
https://www.dropbox.com/tour/0

If you have already purchased Office 365, hands down you'll want to use OneDrive. 1 TB of storage waiting for you, already paid for.

Let us know if you have any questions ... lots of good answers here already.


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*

Thank you both for your comments and suggestions. 

New developments-Yes, OldGrayGary, your steps for "seeing" the external HD did the trick. The light came on and the drive appeared. Thanks! Also, yes, I understand that only one backup system should be installed at a time-otherwise software confusion.
I think I have File History working the way I want it now. And, BTW, I finally saw some information identifying One Drive as the backup location built into Win 10, as you pointed out. Thanks for confirming that for me.

Back to the Seagate drive, yes, I had come across Sea Tools earlier this week, and I used that to check the other Seagate drive that I have now been using for storing File History. But I will check the formerly problematic HD now too.

My apologies re: what I posted about diagnosing the HD problem-I forgot that I had gone through Device manager and disc management looking for the HD. At 74 years old, my internal computer (also called a brain), does not work as well as I would like anymore.

Finally, Stancestans, I seem to have offended you with my story of rejecting the EaseUS program. I have been working with computers since 1988, but I still feel some trepidation getting into how computer systems work. It's the same with working on my three family cars. So if the language used in a program's operation seems difficult to me, as I did find the EaseUS systems, and I felt that the wording suggested that it was not original English, I tend to bail out. Certainly I intended no offense at the Chinese. And so when I saw that EaseUS had put my backup files in my C drive, I decided that I didn't want to pursue relocating those files, or use that program.

Finally, I think my original questions have been answered-I am a happy camper, backup-wise, and thanks for everyone's input and support!


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

dradile said:


> Finally, Stancestans, I seem to have offended you with my story of rejecting the EaseUS program. I have been working with computers since 1988, but I still feel some trepidation getting into how computer systems work. It's the same with working on my three family cars. So if the language used in a program's operation seems difficult to me, as I did find the EaseUS systems, and I felt that the wording suggested that it was not original English, I tend to bail out. Certainly I intended no offense at the Chinese. And so when I saw that EaseUS had put my backup files in my C drive, I decided that I didn't want to pursue relocating those files, or use that program.
> 
> Finally, I think my original questions have been answered-I am a happy camper, backup-wise, and thanks for everyone's input and support!


 Not at all! :grin: No offense taken.
I just thought it ridiculous that an English user guide would seem translated from Chinese, but then again, people will give all kinds of reasons not to use something if it doesn't seem suitable for them regardless. I doubt the Chinese would feel more offended than EASEUS, but no matter, you got backup setup and working just the way you want and that was the issue at hand and objective of our contributions.

Cheers :beerchug:


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## OldGrayGary (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*

Techs: nice teamwork! 

dradile: very nice work: congratulations!


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*

Oops, I forgot to ask one question. Why does the HD show up in This PC as Seagate HD (D (D? I hope that does not mean that there is a partition on that HD. Thanks!


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

dradile said:


> Oops, I forgot to ask one question. Why does the HD show up in This PC as Seagate HD (D (D? I hope that does not mean that there is a partition on that HD. Thanks!


It should have at least one partition, formatted in a file system, for it to store anything on it.

It may also appear in This PC if it has a partition that hasn't been formatted yet. So yes, if it appears in This PC, it does have a partition. You can right click it and check it's properties to confirm, or look at it in Disk Management.


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*

Thanks, but the two D's doesn't mean anything in itself?


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

dradile said:


> Thanks, but the two D's doesn't mean anything in itself?


Oh! I thought those were smileys! Could we see a screenshot of it? I believe they are just part of the volume label, which can be pretty much anything and you can rename it to whatever is suitable.


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

Yep, not smileys, but renameable. Thanks!


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

*Re: need info on wondows 10 backup workings*

Thanks again for your detailed suggestions re: my backup question. I have completed backing up with File History which seems to address my needs-simple process, accessible files in storage, to allow checking correct results. However, when using the Back up system, the results are questionable. What I mean is that the backup process page seems simple but it is confusing to me-There is an "Add files" button but does that mean the files shown are included or not included until I take some action. If I right click on a file, a "Remove" button appears. That suggests that the files listed are actually to be included in the backup. That's confusing to me. Then, after going through the files, and removing some of them, there is no Save button and so when I return to the Backup Options Overview later, I am presented with the original list of files as though nothing has changed since my last visit there. 
And finally, after running the Backup, and trying to check what has been backed up, all I could find was lists of new "backup files." I saw no way to determine what those files content is.
So, just to be safe, I now backup File History to one external drive, and Backup to another HD. It seems to me that Microsoft could make this clearer or easier.


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## OldGrayGary (Jun 29, 2006)

Hi again


The simplest viewing of backup files is likely anything in your OneDrive folder. It navigates just like File Explorer (used to be Windows Explorer).

It is unfortunate that the navigation and selection screens in File History are so odd. File History may have originally been mainly designed to save "old versions" of current files. This is handy when a recent change has proven undesirable, and you can simply click "Properties" for the file, select "Previous Versions" = and a list of all the saved previous versions appears, from which you can pick the version you prefer.

When you mention seeing "Add file" on a screen, what screen is that? When I look in the tutorials for Backup in Windows 10 File History, all I see is "Add folder"... I haven't been able to find a screen that mentions a particular file. 

I use OneDrive as my main backup, partly because I have so many computers. I synchronize the documents folders between all of them this way. I recommend it because it is so darn simple to use - and you can still keep local copies of everything if you wish (some users with smaller hard drives keep most of the documents online, to save space).

While some of my customers use File History, I actually don't use it myself. Tell you what, though - I'll fire it up on one of my Windows 10 tester laptops, and see if I can find the screens you are seeing. Adventure time!

I'll check back in after I roam about in File History.


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## OldGrayGary (Jun 29, 2006)

P.S. ... one more thing: in your very first post, you mentioned finding the 148 GB WindowsImageBackup file, and that it isn't easy to read. Generally, this is true for most specialized system images. I've never had to view an individual file in such a backup, because system images are mainly intended to restore an entire file system at once. The other backup systems, such as OneDrive, Backup, and File History, are intended for you to be able to view individual items.


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

Thanks for getting right back to me! Yes, the button in Backup Options Overview is Add folders, not files. And, thanks, re: your point about the Windows Image Backup not being easy to read-not intended to, I take it. That's fine, if everyone realizes that. I am impressed that you have so many computers and information that has to be backed up-that would be daunting for me. I on the other hand want to keep "My Documents" safe, accessible for checking, and of course up to date.

With regard to File History, maybe I was not clear. I can easily check that my files there are up to date and complete. It was the Backup systems that I was puzzled by-other than File History I could not open and check any of the files that I wanted to save.

I hope this helps, and many thanks to you!


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

For those reading this, you might find interesting info here: Set up a drive for File History - Windows Help

EDIT: Something I forgot to mention. If you get the message "Your File History Drive was disconnected for too long" the apparently simple solutions don't always work.


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## OldGrayGary (Jun 29, 2006)

Hi again all -

Just to see if I've understood the latest: it sounds like you can find and view your File History backups OK. But there is another type of backup going on that you aren't able to view the individual files easily.

Does that sound right? If so:
1) Is the hard-to-read type of backup limited to only the system image type? (there actually are complicated ways to view files on these, but, well = they are complicated. ...involves mounting images, yada yada...)
2) Is the hard-to-read backup something created using the optional older backup, referred to as Windows 7 Backup?

If it is the first of those two - no worries. And if your system is making system images all the time, you can probably change that. You usually only need one system image (they are rather huge, and take up a lot of space). Another way to take care of that is to have the most recent system image replace the older one (or simply make a new one, and manually delete the older one).

If it's option number two (Windows 7 backup) ... that means I have to go check the details on that, because I haven't seen it in too many years.

The good news in all this: your data sounds like it's well protected.


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## dradile (Dec 1, 2006)

You wrote: "But there is another type of backup going on that you aren't able to view the individual files easily." Yes, that is the System Image program that I now realize is not intended to be checked content-wise. No problem for me. It is there for recovery purposes, I take it, and that is fine with me. 

Thanks very much for all your time and effort with my questions!


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