# Car Antifreeze????



## MyKobalt

ok. i ran a search and couldn't find anything on this. I KNOW i can't be the only one who's asked this, but..... can you use automotive antifreeze like Prestone in your pc liquid cooling? I know it's usually a 50/50 ratio of coolant and water. anyone?


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## MyKobalt

i just figure if i use the new Prestone Extended Life, which has anti-corrosive agents in it, and mix it 50/50 with distilled water that it should be fine. either way, i'm gonna be trying it in about 6 hours when the stores open. unless someone heeds a strict warning. lol


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## ebackhus

Anti-free/coolant is usually a main component of any water-cooling setup. While water itself is a great conductor and carrier of hot and cold, it can receive a boost to help it do the job better. Most all-in-one cooling kits come with a concentrated coolant that you dillute with distilled water and then introduced into the setup. Buying it at the car parts store just makes it easier (no figuring mixture amounts!) but leaves you with lots of leftovers.


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## Wrench97

One note about automotive antifreeze and I suspect I'll hear flak, but it actually lowers the ability of water to dissipate heat, In marine and heavy truck applications we have in the past removed the coolant and went with straight water with a rust inhibitor to cool problem applications 671TT Detroits in marine applications where famous for the problem,
as were some generator sets with Caterpillar engines. In trucks and cars it would be done to make something runnable with a plugged radiator while one was on order or to finish a trip. 

So my question is if it's not in danger of freezing like a car why use it?
Could the water cooling fluids be nonconductive?


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## MyKobalt

Antifreeze isn't just to keep the engine form freezing. It helps cool it too iin the extreme heat of summer. It's a "coolant".


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## dai

i use the automotive corrision inhibitor,just remember it is poisonous
i don't know how good this is
http://www.xoxide.com/primoice-nonconductive-fluid-clear.html


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## MyKobalt

I did some research and found a 2 part article, 18 pages each, that describes the science of water cooling and additives including antifreeze from our friends at Overclockers.com. Excellent reading and a lot to learn. Please check it out. They even tell you how to make your own coolant!

http://www.overclockers.com/tips1153/index.asp


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## MyKobalt

I also just found a site that did a comparison on PC Ice against auto antifreeze!

http://reviews.pcapex.com/cooling/primochill_pc_ice_coolant.php?page=1


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## MyKobalt

Well I just got me some Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze, Water Wetter Super Coolant Additive and some Prestone Anit-Rust additive. Next time I log on, i'll be chilled. We'll see what happens.


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## FreoHeaveho

MyKobalt said:


> Well I just got me some Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze, Water Wetter Super Coolant Additive and some Prestone Anit-Rust additive. Next time I log on, i'll be chilled. We'll see what happens.


haven't logged on in a while, success then? :wink:


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## Hardwarenerd

why use car antifreeze? it is expensive, it degrades, and can mold... mold=BAD in water cooling, do not use water or "distilled" water, it will also not inhibit fungus, try Fluid XP or fluid XP ultra, it is like 15 bucks and will last a lifetime, and will not corrode or mold, plus its not poisonous, AND it is NON-conductive, no matter how much you spill (me= spills alot)


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## jaggerwild

Antifreeze is fine unless going sub zero temps?


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## Wrench97

Now there's a stable setup if I ever saw one.:laugh::laugh:


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## Hardwarenerd

car antifreeze is also conductive, is it not? so any spill or leak will fry that stylish computer... do you have static building up on that desk? plus antifreeze is toxic... not a good plan imo.... but to each their own...


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## Zeroko

so what would be the recommended mixture of substances to make your own water cooling fluid?


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## dai

of the concentrate i use approx 100/900 distilled water


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## Hardwarenerd

honestly, alot of water cooling systems have 2 potential problems with distilled water. First off, unless you are in a clean room, (and by that i mean free of bacteria/mold) and that waters ph can cause chemical reactions in systems, slow, but surely, like if you have aluminum and copper in the same system, they will react with each other and the copper will eventually corrode...again i suggest Fluid XP ultra, it isnt that expensive, it will not corrode, and will not ever mold, is non-conductive, and is non-toxic. im not a salesman by any means, but i do have quite a bit of experience with water cooling systems...and have tried almost every combination of coolants and/or water and coolants w/water.


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## 420365

I just use that pink antifreeze (for long term storage of vehicles and boats and crap)

Also there is still some of that green glycol crap that came with it still in the system im sure.


Is this okay? will it mold? would adding a small amount of sodium benzoate to it help (thats a bakers additive that prevents mold and spoilage)


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## Hardwarenerd

again, i strongly advise against the car antifreeze, and against the thermaltake glycol stuff (especially the thermaltake) and strongly strongly advise for the FluidXP, i have tried the additives, and the Thermaltake stuff, and it all molds or corrodes. I have had the same bottle of Fluid XP for almost 2 yrs, and have had no issues whatsoever, no molding or corrosion, i havent even had to flush my system, unlike the other ones, which i had to flush every 2 mos or so or it would mold...i havent used the car antifreeze, but if you look at the chemicals in car antifreeze and know a bit of chemistry, you can figure out that it isnt good for long term use...


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## MyKobalt

MyKobalt said:


> Well I just got me some Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze, Water Wetter Super Coolant Additive and some Prestone Anit-Rust additive. Next time I log on, i'll be chilled. We'll see what happens.


After using this, PCPure's stuff and Thermaltake's..... my own formulation had the best results by far. Beating the leading solutions by 5-10 degrees. However, my formula is conductive. I'll take the risk. Hook your **** up right and you won't have to worry about it.


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## MyKobalt

jaggerwild said:


> Antifreeze is fine unless going sub zero temps?




I see a lot of air in those tubes.....


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## TeleF2k

Ok, I realize I'm reviving an ancient thread here but this was high ranked when I was searching Google about antifreeze in computers and couldn't find anything newer on these forums. Figured I'd throw in my 2 cents...

Just noticed some of what I believe to be mold in my system and replaced the fluid I had in it containing distilled water, glycerin, and a very small amount of Dexcool antifreeze (hey what the hell, figured it might kill anything biological).

Replaced it with a stronger mix with the Dexcool not quite 50% maybe a third and whatever mold/chemical buildup is in there went nuts in a day or two from a couple little wispy things to covering everything in the reservoir and making its way up into the CPU block.

As someone said earlier it doesn't kill microorganisms and if my contaminant is indeed mold it most definitely doesn't.

Don't use the stuff. Stick to distilled water for short term only and use coolants/additives made for this purpose.


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## grimx133

You need to use a biocide when you fill the loop, keep growth from starting. Silver also works. PT Nuke was a very well known biocide from Petra's, here's the additives page from there.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/coad.html 

I put a bit of Water Wetter in my coolant, too early to tell if it works, and I'll probably have changed the coolant before anything would crop up. Change way to much stuff, upgrading is a constant practice eh, more like an addiction.


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## TeleF2k

Ha, wish I could afford upgrades, check out the socket 939, DIY mounting bracket, and decade old Koolance gear.

Come to think of it is there any possible local/cheap source for a biocide? Antifreeze obviously fails! 

Id like to be able to hold out a little while before tearing down the system completely or making any online orders. Going to get some hand-me-down parts soon and I'll probably end up ordering some non cooling related items as well for the rebuild id rather just do all the work at once.

Whatever was in the little goo baggie Koolance shipped with the case worked for a really long time. Only reason I drained it was because it seemed like a good idea after who knows how many years.


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## grimx133

You can check with a pet store, see if they sell liquid algaecide for aquariums. Basically the same thing. I tried the local one here, but they haven't sold the liquid for a couple years, it's all solids there, but you may be able to find some. Might even be able to dissolve the solid in a bit of coolant, then add it to the reservoir, but I haven't tried that, now that I think of it, maybe I should though.

There's also some tubing that has a biocide in it, such as Thermochill LRT, but that would be a lot more expensive than picking up some sort of biocide for a few bucks.


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## MonsterMiata

Key word for anyone else that sees this thread, "antifreeze" its an additive that keeps the water in your radiator from freezing. Every one knows why this is bad right? Its because when water freezes it expands. It by itself has no cooling properties worth mentioning. 

Just for a future reference in case someone else sees this old thread and decides its a great idea. People.....i swear :laugh:


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## Wrench97

As a matter of fact Antifreeze will actually raise the temps somewhat, We used to run straight water in the summer months to solve overheats due to a partially clogged radiator in some Diesels.


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## TeleF2k

Anything you add to water is probably going to hurt the cooling properties, water is pretty awesome on its own.


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## Baeleth

anti-freeze is not needed, it is as the name implies against freezing of the coolant. i dont think you going outdoor mid winter to play a video game or convert video...

now with the big zalman crap-alot zm-g200 im going through, what i can tell is that you should try to get your hands on car coolant, anti-corotion without silica (i have a bottle of that stuff for my motorcycle.

you do NOT want to add in water, this stimulates corotion and makes the anti-coriton portion of your liquid useless.


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## Wrench97

Heavy Duty Coolant for Diesel engines can be purchased premixed and does not have Silica added to prevent electrolysis from dissimilar metals in the engine I.E Copper injector cups, Aluminum radiators & castings, Chrome molly liners and Stainless Steel impellers. There are also anti corrosion additives like Penray 2000 but that still leaves the problem of what water to use.


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## Hardwarenerd

So the we are getting way way way off base here, the question was originally, should Car antifreeze be used as a coolant in a computer system. Im not sure, but i believe the consensus is no, it is not a better coolant than water, it doesnt kill or inhibit fungus/mold growth and is hazardous. Stick with De-ionized water or computer coolant such as feser-1 or other non-conductive coolants. Antifreeze is not a coolant, it is a semi-toxic combination of chemicals that has a lower freezing point than water. nothing else. So to re-iterate: stick with water (with fungicide or some sort of microb-growth inhibitor) or non-conductive coolant that inhibits fungus growth. And STAY AWAY FROM THE TOXIC STUFF.:4-thatsba


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## Wrench97

The Anti-corrosion inhibitors are also needed.


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## KD5EEJ350

Something to keep in mind. In the cooling system of a car, its all aluminum, steel, iron and rubber. How would antifreeze react to copper.


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## Tyree

New cars use aluminum radiators due to costs. Prior to that they were made from copper.
Auto anti-freeze needs to be under pressure to cool effectively.


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## KD5EEJ350

Tyree said:


> New cars use aluminum radiators due to costs. Prior to that they were made from copper.
> Auto anti-freeze needs to be under pressure to cool effectively.


The newer Orange style antifreeze has acids in them that are bad for copper and brass.


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## Wrench97

No they do not, ELC is made from Propylene Glycol where the older coolant is made from Ethylene Glycol, many heavy trucks still use copper/brass in the engine and trans oil coolers, heater cores and radiators, though Aluminum/Plastic are becoming more common for radiators and heater cores.


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## KD5EEJ350

wrench97 said:


> No they do not, ELC is made from Propylene Glycol where the older coolant is made from Ethylene Glycol, many heavy trucks still use copper/brass in the engine and trans oil coolers, heater cores and radiators, though Aluminum/Plastic are becoming more common for radiators and heater cores.


The newer organic orange crap does have an acidic property to them and CAN be harmful to copper and brass. I guess it all depends on the specifics of the antifreeze, but in my opinion, computers are a completely different beast than a car and you shouldn't assume the fluids can be interchangeable. The main difference of antifreeze over water is that antifreeze has a lot of anti-corrosion properties to deal with rusting in steal/iron engine parts, most water cooling systems aren't going to have these types of metals as they don't have to operate under the intense pressures of a car engine to function thus aluminum/copper/light rubber hoses are used, copper mainly due to the transference from the hot parts you want cool.

EDIT: well I guess the actual MAIN difference is that antifreeze doesn't... well freeze(under real life circumstances) and computers really don't have to worry about sub 32 degree temps unless you are for some reason overclocking and watercooling AND living in artic conditions without heating. lol


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## Wrench97

Orange, Pink, Purple it's ELC and is not acidic, dis-similar metal electrolysis can make them acidic if left untreated(no extender was added) or it has not been changed after 5 years(as will the standard old green coolant) the additive packages in both types can also react with the tap water used to dilute them to create corrosive properties which is the biggest reason you now see more premix coolant on the market.
Acid corrodes Aluminum faster then copper or brass so being acidic would not be a benefit in any cooling system.


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## KD5EEJ350

wrench97 said:


> Orange, Pink, Purple it's ELC and is not acidic, dis-similar metal electrolysis can make them acidic if left untreated(no extender was added) or it has not been changed after 5 years(as will the standard old green coolant) the additive packages in both types can also react with the tap water used to dilute them to create corrosive properties which is the biggest reason you now see more premix coolant on the market.
> Acid corrodes Aluminum faster then copper or brass so being acidic would not be a benefit in any cooling system.


I'm only going off the brief GM bulletins I would get when they did the change over from green to orange while working at a GM dealership, they were notoriously dumbed down and somewhat misinformative. But yeah I would looking at proper waters "tap/distilled/filtered" with water cooler treatment mixes before antifreezes, just sounds like a hap-hazardous route to take.


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## Wrench97

GM blamed everything but there design for coolant leaks around the intake/cylinder head gaskets, remember the HT4100 Cadillac engines with all the coolant in the oil 
Then the SB II Chevy's started doing the same thing and came out with the recommendation to add cooling system sealer once a year.


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## Tyree

The newer anti-freeze solutions were designed for the aluminum radiators/heater cores.
As wrench97 pointed out, adding water is the biggest issue with the new cooling solutions using aluminum components for cooling/heating.
Anti-freeze, in addition to prevent freezing, also raises the boiling point in the cooling system when under pressure.
The biggest issues I saw in the dealership and my shop for leakage was using aluminum heads on iron blocks. The metals introduce a reaction with the cooling liquid that deteriorated the head gaskets. Going to a better composition gasket eliminated that.


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## KD5EEJ350

wrench97 said:


> GM blamed everything but there design for coolant leaks around the intake/cylinder head gaskets, remember the HT4100 Cadillac engines with all the coolant in the oil
> Then the SB II Chevy's started doing the same thing and came out with the recommendation to add cooling system sealer once a year.


Yeah. We had a tiny driveway splitting us and the FORD dealership so we could literally talk to them once we stepped out the shop doors for smoke, so we kinda "befriended the enemy" and would goto lunch with them and come to find out at the time ford was no better, then later at a Chrysler dealership I realized they were the stupidest of the big 3.

But this post is WAY off topic so I will stop typing and get back to my beer. =]


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## Wrench97

In all actuality years ago in marine diesels, the Detroit 671 STTI to be exact when they ran hot we dumped all the antifreeze out and used straight water with a Nalcool anti-corrosion additive, the heat transfer properties of water is better then a 50/50 mix of coolant, but water alone is more corrosive and freezes, antifreeze mixture raises the boiling point and lowers the freezing point as well as contains a anti-corrosion additive package, the additive package would be the only benefit in a PC cooling system unless you keep it outside in the winter.


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## KD5EEJ350

wrench97 said:


> In all actuality years ago in marine diesels, the Detroit 671 STTI to be exact when they ran hot we dumped all the antifreeze out and used straight water with a Nalcool anti-corrosion additive, the heat transfer properties of water is better then a 50/50 mix of coolant, but water alone is more corrosive and freezes, antifreeze mixture raises the boiling point and lowers the freezing point as well as contains a anti-corrosion additive package, the additive package would be the only benefit in a PC cooling system unless you keep it outside in the winter.


This post should be the 1st and only reply on this thread lol, you said it best, to boil water on a cpu your cpu is already dead and freezing temps, well "unless you keep it outside in the winter" summed that up.


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## grimx133

Kind of off the new, modified topic, but for PC cooling, I use distilled water with a couple capfulls of Watter Wetter. I'm due for a tear down, haven't changed the liquid in almost a year, but there's nothing growing in there, as far as I can tell. When I get around to redoing the loop, I'll crack open the cpu block and take a look.


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## Tyree

We used water wetter in our race cars, when we ran gas, to raise the boiling point higher. It includes inhibitors to prevent rust and gunk.


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