# Planning New Gaming Rig



## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

As with most of the threads here (yes, I did read a few of them for hints), my old machine has been behind the power curve for years so I'm looking to get a new one. I'm not a PC guy normally (just use it for games) so I'm not quite sure about building one, but, with help, I know I could.

Okay so I know the intel core 2 duo, what's the AMD equivalent? Athlon X2? I put together a comparison chart for pricing and figured out the intel E6750 is a pretty good value and it should last me a few years. The only thing better is the E8400. Yes/no?

Video: ATI? NVIDIA? And what is SLI and do I need it? I'm thinking the NVidia but all the new ones have TV on them and I don't want to waste the $$ on that. Maybe the 8500 or so?

Was looking at CyberPowerPC.com as they seemed to have some decent systems. Anyone have any good/bad about them? Or anyone else for that matter.

Case 1:









Case 2:









Config: System Config PDF

I'm figuring a budget of $1500 +/- a bit. Monitor is probably good with what I have and I have enough external HD that I don't need a huge one in the machine.

This is going to be a gaming rig (as mentioned in the title) so not worrying about anything else on it.

Will be running XP Pro as well and don't need another copy as I already own two licensed copies.

Thanks for any input!!


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## bruiser (Jul 30, 2005)

Here's their Reseller Rating: www.resellerratings.com/store/CyberPower


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Bruiser, thanks!!! That's an awesome site. Looking through the reviews, every non-satisfied review was responded to by CyberPower directly. That was impressive; that they monitor that site and attempt to resolve customer issues. Yes, it would be better were there no issues at all, but, that's probably not likely with any builder; there will always be someone who is not satisfied. I feel a bit better if I decide to buy from them after reading through the comments. Although, it's clear that whoever was replying, that english is not their first language. Not a big deal, just an observation.

Any input/thoughts/suggestions on the configuration as far as CPU, graphics, etc?

Thanks again!!!!


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## themisiek1 (Aug 20, 2007)

There are a lot of better CPUs then the E8400. For example the QX9650 QX9770 and QX9775 except all those cost well over 1K dollars. AMD is no where near Intel CPU performance. I would suggest getting a Intel Quad Core CPU over a dual core. 

NVIDIA and INTEL are kicking AMDs/ATis butts for past year and is expected to continue to do so for quite a while (at least another year). I love AMD and ATi over Intel and Nvidia but the past year hasnt been good at all.

SLi means you have 2 video cards working together. No you don't need it. 

I highly suggest building you own computer. Its cheaper and faster. Plus 1500 dollars will get you better parts if you build on your own then if you buy from a company.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lVJ5ZEbf6F4

Very helpful video. If you have any questions just ask.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

I did see some of the stuff on the Quad cores, but, haven't seen much yet written to take advantage of it. And, as you mentioned, they are quite $$$$ so I figured a Core 2 Duo would be quite good enough for now and the next few years. I figure with the FPS games that I typically play, the most money should be spend on the graphics card rather than extra money on CPU. Is this wrong?

Also, the link you posted comes up with "This video has been removed by the user."  

Thanks for the input!!!!!


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## 2pistolpacker (Dec 3, 2007)

Here is a link to another building thread, it is worth reading.Decent gaming rig

More advice on good parts


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

actually, ATI is kicking nvidia's butt with the 3870x2. phenom isnt that bad, but core2duo is better. i would use www.falcon-nw.com if you get preconfigured, otherwise just build it yourself


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Forcifer, I appreciate the input! I took a look at Falcon and could not configure a system for less than $2000. They also seem to have less choices on some of the options. They look like great systems though and I'll keep them in mind.


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

look at www.abs.com


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

1 g0t 0wn3d said:


> look at www.abs.com


Ouch! They are the most expensive yet. Looks like awesome systems though! Thanks for the link.

I could use some advice from you guys though as I'm getting too confused between north bridge, south bridge, FSB, DDR, slots, etc. Then you have ASUS, GigaByte, EVGA, ABIT for motherboards. And I'm not sure on the P35, 750i, 780i, 775i, 975x.

Basically, just trying to build a decent, not screaming, gaming rig. Wanted to go with Intel Core 2 Duo (probably E6850) and was looking at the NVidia 8800GTS 512MB. Was thinking RAID 0/1 with two identical drives for the system (probably 80GB) and a 250GB or so data drive.

I was hoping to stay down below $1500 since I could build a system from CyperPC for that. Since I've never built one before, that's why I'm getting confused on this.

Thanks!!!!


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

p35 is the most stable and it support 45nm so i would go with that


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Not sure what 45nm is (other than nano-meters) and is there any limit on the video card? I guess I was thinking the nForce boards would be better with the nVidia video card. Is that not the case?

I guess the simple question would be what is the crucial stat on the motherboard? FSB? RAM (800/1066/1200)? Then there's that whole PCI thing: Express x1, x16, 1.0, 2.0. It's enough to hurt one's brain  

Thanks for the advice!!!


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## Jtsou (Jul 13, 2007)

themisiek1 said:


> There are a lot of better CPUs then the E8400. For example the QX9650 QX9770 and QX9775 except all those cost well over 1K dollars. AMD is no where near Intel CPU performance. I would suggest getting a Intel Quad Core CPU over a dual core.


The E8400 is the best Core 2 Duo out right now for performance and price. The only better ones are the ones listed above but are $800 more? Thats just stupid to buy. The E8400 is the best choice for gaming at the moment if you are on a budget.


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

The 45nm are intels new cpus (8400) and no the 935 boards will run any pci express video card with a power supply that can run them

If you are not overclocking to much on the 8400 you do not need higher then 800 ram in dual channel 

Nforce are only better since you can use more then one video card but price vs proformance just does not warrant it

Pci express 2.0 is the newest and is alittle faster x1 is for sound cards and such and the other 2 are just older pci express video card slots


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Jtsou said:


> The E8400 is the best Core 2 Duo out right now for performance and price. The only better ones are the ones listed above but are $800 more? Thats just stupid to buy. The E8400 is the best choice for gaming at the moment if you are on a budget.


I'd have to agree, but, not based on knowledge. I put together a spread sheet with all the CPUs and did a basic cost comparison based on speed, cache, FSB and combined and the 8400 is the best value.

The question though, to me at least, is why does the 8400 cost less then the 6850? When you compare them side-by-side, the 8400 has a larger cache and is 45nm as opposed to 65nm. Other than that, they are identical. Why the cost difference and why isn't the 8400 more expensive?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

1 g0t 0wn3d said:


> The 45nm are intels new cpus (8400) and no the 935 boards will run any pci express video card with a power supply that can run them
> 
> If you are not overclocking to much on the 8400 you do not need higher then 800 ram in dual channel
> 
> ...


Got it, thanks! I'm not an overclock guy. Wouldn't know how to and would not want to screw up and cause something to blow up/burn up so 800 on the RAM bus unless I can find a decent deal on 1066; sounds good.

As long as it has one 2.0 slot then, I should be fine. What would be the equivalent in the ATI (or whoever else) to the 8800GTS? What's the key stat or stats when comparing graphic cards? I use GPU Review to compare the video cards (this link is the most popular comparison) and notice the GPU, FLOPS, Fill Rates, etc. Why do you think looking at Tiger or NewEgg the most popular are all nVidia?

Thanks for the input!!!!


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

A couple of other questions: What is the North/South bridge and do I need to worry if the board has an on-board video chipset or not? Is it better to have one that does or doesn't and which?


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

Not having a onboard i think makes it alittle faster but it is way easier to find out what an issue is with your system


The only ati that will be better is the 3870x2 but thats alot of cash the single 3870 is alittle slower then a 8800 gt


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks! I did read some stuff on the 3870x2 and you are right, lots of $$$$ but, it is well rated. Maybe by the time I get ready to buy everything, they will come down a bit (end of this semester if all goes well).

So far what I've learned, if I figure out what video card I absolutely want, then I can see if it's PCI 2.0 or x16. That, the RAM (more if I want 2 or 4 slots) and the CPU (Core 2 Duo) will basically make my decision (or at least narrow it considerably) on the mother board.

Power supply I think is a given at 450-550 for what I'm building. I may need to think 600+ if I decide to definitely do the RAID configuration with 2 to 4 drives in the machine; right?

Thanks again for all the help!!!!


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

if even remotly considering the 3870 i would look at a pc power and cooling 750 watt


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## bige12 (Jan 27, 2008)

about the processor if i were u i would get the intel Q6600 it costs less then most expe duo and is quad cored if you r doing some serious gaming this is the best processor for a little more then $250 its a great deal i have one myself and nearly nothing will slow it down besides the most demanding application or games (like Crysis)


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

the only thing that will be faster then the quad in gaming is the 8400.... for multi tasking the quad wins though


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

As I mentioned, I think I'm leaning to the 8400. Not to discount what Bige stated, but, I don't see a lot of advantage (yet) on the Quad cores. They are probably the best at multi-tasking, but, not a lot of that while you are gaming as the actual code that is so intensive in the games is typically the graphics and that is off-loaded to the GPU.

The question though, to me at least, is why does the 8400 cost less then the 6850? When you compare them side-by-side, the 8400 has a larger cache and is 45nm as opposed to 65nm. Other than that, they are identical. Why the cost difference and why isn't the 8400 more expensive?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Noone has an answer for this or is everyone else as confused as I am?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

1 g0t 0wn3d said:


> if even remotly considering the 3870 i would look at a pc power and cooling 750 watt


How's this http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817341002


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Video card question: Based on previous posts, I was looking for PCI 2.0, but, am finding a limited number of cards that support that slot. There are quite a few that have the PCI x16 though and there doesn't seem to be a large price difference between that and the 2.0. Is x16 good enough or should I get the one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814241070) they have for 2.0?

That's the only 2.0 on NewEgg. There are a bunch of x16's. This is the best rated one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102723). Any thoughts? Especially since the 2.0 one has some really bad reviews. What mfr should I stay away from and who is the best?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Okay, I'm going nuts. I know someone recommended a mother board, but, I can't find the thread. I think it was one of the Gigabyte ones (P35 I think). So, given a Core 2 Duo 8400 CPU and ATI 3870x2 video card, what would be the best bet? What the difference between the P35, P965, X38, etc?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

No ideas?


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

p35 it is the most stable and will overclock well


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks Owned. Is there any MFR to stay away from? I was looking at the MSI or Gigabyte boards as they always seemed to be rated fairly high on NewEgg.


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

Right now asus and gigabyte are the best


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Getting closer. Two finals done and the last I could do in my sleep (CIS class). Also managed a A on my research paper (one of them so far).

So, need some help on getting the mother board situation done. I keep thinking I wanted to put two smaller drives in and RAID them: Redundant (RAID 1?) for the OS and 5-8 GB striped (RAID 0) for the pagefile. Additional drive for data and applications, although, not sure what size (250GB?).

So, do I really need to screw around with the RAID or no? What's the best mfr for the motherboad as far as reliability, support, availability of drivers, etc.

As mentioned, decided on the ATI 3870x2 video and E8400 CPU. Also have RAM and power supply pretty much set. I have a lot of extra stuff still in there, but, take a look and give me your input (http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=4569849)


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

apevia psu are some of the worst psu's get that off of there pronto for a power supply on a 3870x2 then look at a 750 watt pc power and cooling 

stay away from 750i motherboards but ether of the first ones will work be aware that the first does not support raid


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Awesome Owned. I put in "Power Supplies > +12V Rails : 4 > Fans : 2" for my criteria and came up with a few:

Rosewill RX750-D-B ATX12V v2.2 & EPS12V v2.91 750W









SeaSonic M12 SS-700HM ATX12V / EPS12V 700W









mushkin 550150 ATX12V 650W









Were the top rated. I'll definitely take that Apevia off.

Why do you suggest staying away from the 750i? I was thinking it may be helpful to have an on-board video just in case. No? Maybe just keep an old video card around for emergencies?

I was aware the Gigabyte P35 did not support RAID, but, others have recommended that one which is why it's still there. As I mentioned, if the thought is not to bother with the RAID configuration, then that's probably the board I'd get.

Thanks again for the input!!!!!


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

SeaSonic M12 SS-700HM ATX12V / EPS12V 700W
on of the best units out 

i am actually considering getting the gigabyte myself so take that into mind


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

I was leaning to the SeaSonic as well given it is the only one of the three with the energy efficiency rating on it.

I was also going to look at a PCI RAID card and compare the difference between a motherboard with RAID and one without adding the RAID just for comparison. So actually having the RAID on the board isn't that huge of a deal. With that, I'm probably leaning to the Gigabyte as well (the P35 not the X35).

Thanks again for the input!!!!!


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Updated the listing AJM Gaming System. Still a couple of decisions to make. Appreciate the input!

Also still trying to figure out, why does the 8400 cost less then the 6850? When you compare them side-by-side, the 8400 has a larger cache and is 45nm as opposed to 65nm. Other than that, they are identical. Why the cost difference and why isn't the 8400 more expensive? 6850 x 8400 Comparison

Finally, for this post  , I just noticed the 8400 on NewEgg comes with a heatsink and fan. Are these typically good enough or should I keep one of the fans I have on my wish list (have two, could use suggestions on which)?

Thanks as always guys!!!!!


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Just thought of something else: I already have XP Pro, but, will that work with this config? Especially the RAID and RAM?

Thanks!!!!!


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Well, grades are in:

Sociology 300: 94
Economics 405: 94
CIS 267: 99

So it looks like the build is on! Now just need to finalize the parts and get answers to those last few questions.

Any answers? Final suggestions?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Just noticed something; the motherboard I've been looking at, the Gigabyte, shows the memory supported as DDR2 1066. But, I had put DDR2 800 on my list. Did noone else notice this or is it okay?

What the downside of running DDR2 800 in a board that's made for DDR2 1066? Should I get the 1066 instead or find a board that is rated for the 800? Or should I go higher?

Thanks!!!!


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

It is ok that is just the bords max you can go below it 

8400 is cheaper but better


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks! Just to ensure I've got all the advice straight:

For now, stick with DDR2 as it's good enough and DDR2-800 at that. But, if I could find a board that would support DDR2 and DDR3, and there wasn't a huge difference in price, go that way to allow for upgrading the RAM in a few years. If I don't need to worry about the DDR3 then that changes my motherboard considerations some.

Motherboards: Asus or Gigabyte and I can't go wrong. Still don't quite get the difference between P35 and X35 though. If I'm dead set on RAID, is it better to have the RAID ON the motherboard rather than an add-on PCI card? I'm thinking yes as it's probably easier to setup since it's integrated; more control through the BIOS; less problems if you have to reinstall OS (was going to be on RAID 1/mirror, NOT striped) since the driver/controller is built-in.

The decision on RAID will determine my drive decision, but, I'm still thinking a smaller drive for OS and Applications (games) and a separate for data like mapping and such. If I don't RAID, I may just get one 160 or 250 GB drive also.

Think that's it for now. Need to get off the fence and just make a decision on some of these things soon (I KNOW!), but I really appreciate the input you guys are giving me!!!


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

i would stay with ddr2

and i would stay away from raid (just me)


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Everyone keeps recommending the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L and I've been looking at it. What about the GA-EP35C-DS3R? It has DDR2 and DDR3 support, no serial or parallel ports (which I haven't used in years anyway) and it has RAID built in (I guess as built in as you can get).

The difference in cost would be the same as the RAID card I was going to put in anyway (just a bit less) and all I lose is the ability to RAID IDE (on the card but not on this board).

I don't see a lot else different between the two.


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

that and it has ultra durable 2 capasators instead of the ultra durible 1 on the first board ether one is a good choice


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

the 800 will work find you wont find any problems. you can get the 1066 if you want, but let me put mem speed in perspective:
in Counter-Strike: Source, a not very demanding graphics game at all, the differences between 1066 and 800 ram was a grand total of 4 fps. ram speed doesnt matter near as much as ram amounts (to some point anyway)


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks for the simple explanation!


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

No it's not dead  

Just finished my last semester:
HUM 400: 97
CIS 499: 95

Whew. Now back to the build. I'd already purchased a few of the pieces over the last few months (CPU, HDs, etc.) but, when I went to look at my wish list, the graphics card wasn't there. I'm trying to find out what happened to it (I think it was the Sapphire HD3870x2 but it's discontinued on NewEgg).

Anyway, in looking at Sapphire's site, I noticed this:

System Requirements

PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard.
550 Watt or greater power supply with two 2x3-pin PCIe® power connectors required (750 Watt and four 6-pin connectors for dual ATI CrossFireX™)
For enhanced performance with ATI Overdrive™, a power supply with one 2x3-pin and one 2x4-pin PCIe® power connector is required

What's with the 2x3 pin connnector? Are those standard on most power supplies now? I was going to get the SeaSonic 700W (Power Supply. Will that still work?

I'll start looking around for other places to buy the video card in the meantime. I'm probably looking at $1000 for the rest of the stuff so it may be a couple of weeks before I get everything, but, I'll post back even if I don't have any problems putting it together


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Just received a reply from Sapphire:

Yes the HD3870X2 will be discontinue, ATI does not produce his card anymore because of the new release of the HD4K.

Tech
Sapphire Technology
Tech Support Center

What's the HD4K?


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## patriothntr (May 29, 2008)

The 4850 and 4870 cards...look at them...they're quite nice, and priced fairly competitively as well. Also have a look at the 9800gx2.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks Patriot, that's what I was thinking but wanted to be sure. I also just saw an article about a 4870x2 due out July/August so I'll try to look for that one as well.

Appreciate the reply!!!!


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## outermon (Jan 28, 2008)

I skipped a lot, but read most of the first and third pages... I know you like cyperpowerpc.com. Well, ibuypower.com is pretty much the same thing. They really rip off each other a lot. I'm thinking they might be owned by the same people, or they just like copying each other, because they're both excellent sites.

I don't get why anyone would recommend Quad-Core for a gaming rig. Maybe Tri-Core so System Processes can run on the third core, but games will only run on two cores (at least for the time being, doesn't look like they'll use four cores for a while). Most games only run on one core. 

What I recommend is:
750W Thermaltake Toughpower
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E8400 (3Ghz)
Thermaltake MaxOrb CPU Cooling Fan System Kit
MSI P35 Neo-F P35 Motherboard
4 GB [1 GB X4] DDR2-800 PC6400 (Cheapest one)
NVidia Geforce 9800GTX 512MB

Those are all the really big important specs. Also, you could go for the 1GB Ram and upgrade it yourself, it'd be A LOT cheaper. I'm talking hundreds of dollars cheaper. 4GB of 1066 RAM costs less than $100 on newegg.com. You may not want to mess around inside your beautiful new machine, but trust me, changing RAM is SOOOOO simple. All you do is open your case (usually just two screws and then pull it off), then just shove the ram in and lock it in place with the 2 little clips on the motherboard. The process is barbaric when compared to how high-tech the devices are. There are lots of guides online. Just make sure you TOUCH THE METAL BACK PART OF YOUR CASE A LOT. Maybe even try to hold it the whole time you're putting the RAM in. Static electricity can damage RAM. I just did a build yesterday, and all i did was make sure i kept touching the metal back part of the case, and everything went fine.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Hey Outermon, thanks!!! Unfortunately you did skip a lot   but that's okay. The short update is that I've been convinced to build my own which is what my last post was about - the unavailability of the video card I had originally decided on.

So I guess the question now though is should I get the 3870x2 (which there are still a few from other manufacturers) or wait a month for the 4870x2 and hope they aren't all PCIE 2.0?? Any thoughts on that?


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Okay, looking at the 3870x2 - pretty much decided if I wait for the 4870x2 then something else will be just over the horizon so, bite the bullet and go.

Frys has the ATI and VisionTek.

TigerDirect has the Diamond and the VisionTek.

MWave also has the Diamond, MSI and VisionTek.

NewEgg also has an HIS. I'd never heard of them.

Is one manufacturer better (since I haven't had a lot of experience with any of them thought I'd ask)? Other than the huge price differences (MWave has a free Rainbow Six game), would it be better to go to the source - ATI?

Thanks again for all the help! I promise I'll post stats and pictures when I get this done.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

Bump


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## stressfreesoul (Mar 17, 2008)

by golly this is a long thread!!! Took me an hour to read it!! Go for the Tiger Direct Diamond card.


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## Jtsou (Jul 13, 2007)

ShosMeister said:


> I'd have to agree, but, not based on knowledge. I put together a spread sheet with all the CPUs and did a basic cost comparison based on speed, cache, FSB and combined and the 8400 is the best value.
> 
> The question though, to me at least, is why does the 8400 cost less then the 6850? When you compare them side-by-side, the 8400 has a larger cache and is 45nm as opposed to 65nm. Other than that, they are identical. Why the cost difference and why isn't the 8400 more expensive?


I just noticed this post in my USER CP.

The E6850 is more expensive because Intel wants the new 45nm CPUs to take off. They are the future and are more efficient, the 65nm CPUs are old news now, and Intel wants them gone.


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## ShosMeister (Jan 19, 2008)

That makes sense Jtsou. Thanks!

Sorry for the long thread StressFree. I'm hoping that others may find some of it useful if they do a search for any of the information here. BTW, why do you recommend the Diamond card? Just curious as I'm piecing together the information I'm getting here as "real world" experience with the reviews that I've read. I was looking at the VisionTek or ASUS.

And THANKS for taking the time to read the thread - I REALLY appreciate it!!!


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