# Monitor and case shocking me, help please!



## WorldDestroyer (Apr 4, 2009)

Hello,

I've spent a great deal of time and effort trying to solve a problem that has become a real mystery. My monitor screen sends out a low level constant electric current, only it is a new monitor. My old monitor also did the same thing.

My computer gives out a low level constant charge, not enough to hurt, just enough to let you know it's there. However, the odd thing is, when I unplug the monitor, problem gone, monitor has no more current, nor does the case or components inside the case, which also have a low level charge, when the monitor is plugged in that is.

I don't see how it can be the video card, since the case would have a charge even when it was not plugged into the monitor, yes?

It can't be the power supply, can it? I mean, the problem would still be there without the monitor plugged in were the power supply the problem.

My power supply is 350w ATX using a pentium 4 processor. The problem is not the hard driver, that's new, the power supply is new also, and I have this problem with two other power supplies as well. I don't know what to think really.

Strangely, the place where there is the most current leakage when the monitor is plugged into the computer is on the back of the power supply, on the metal fan cage. I don't get it, no current leakage when the computer is powered up by itself, leakage bigtime from the computer when the monitor is plugged into it. Also, no leakage from the monitor when it is plugged in and standing alone, but when plugged into the computer, leakage. 

Consequently, every piece of hardware in the computer has current leakage that sends a mild electric charge through my finger at a constant rate when I touch it, only when the monitor is plugged in that is.

Clearly there is a hardware problem, conflict, however I am at a loss. Were the problem the case, there would be leakage whether the monitor was plugged in or not. I don't get it, baffling to me to be honest. 

Maybe it is the wiring in my home, however I grounded one outlet and plugged everything back in, same problem.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


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## emosun (Oct 4, 2006)

On very old AT machines the ground from the house is literally connected to the chassis of the case , I remember they used to produce small amounts of power as well.


Whats weird is that your saying your case is electrically charged enough to shock you. That's strange since the voltage the pc uses isn't enough to hurt you when you come directly in contact with it. It's only 12 volts maximum.

I'm thinking it's your monitor sending the charge to the computer chassis , have you tried another monitor?


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## WorldDestroyer (Apr 4, 2009)

As I already said in my prior message, this happened with my last monitor as well, so this literally is the "new" monitor, so yes, have tried another monitor.

The word shocks means whatever the heck you want it to mean I suppose, however there is no pain it is just a small current, however there should be no current at all, anywhere to be shocking me.

Also, it is only the screws for the most part, and the cage of the power supply unit. You are off track, it's not the monitor.

If it sounds like I said the monitor is sending a charge to the computer it's because that's kind of what I said. However, the problem is not the monitor, not at all. 

My question is, why would there be no problem until the monitor is plugged in. You also seem to have only skimmed my message, as I said the monitor is leaking current as well, I won't use the word shock since you seem to take it as an extreme, "killer" word, I'll say leakage instead. Hence, what would be causing both monitor and computer to "leak" current, but only when both a connected, and not separate?


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## Commander Data (Apr 4, 2009)

Wall outlet = 3 prong grounded or no?

Are these plugged in to the outlet, or a power strip?

If power strip, is it a 3 prong grounded strip?

If at any point your system is not properly grounded, you can experience what you describe.


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## WorldDestroyer (Apr 4, 2009)

3 pronged yes, grounded, I doubt it. I live in China, and the outlets here don't ever seem to be grounded. My question is, how do I go about going this?

I don't know if grounding is the issue, hard to be sure. I don't know much about electricity to be honest. I have no idea how to ground an outlet and likely can not even do so here.

I tried to ground one outlet, connected an uninsulated copper wire to what was a third connection inside the wall outlet I assumed was for the ground, obviously there was no wire connected or inside the wall. Then I connected the wire to the wall outlet screw. This did nothing. However I should point out that the rest of the outlet was plastic, and all the all the walls and floors here are concrete. I don't know if this makes a difference.

Anyhow, if this is indeed the problem, how can it be solved? I read a lot on these forums, mostly folks trying to sound clever and important, but honestly I see little advice designed for novices or beginners, everyone seems to assume everyone is advanced to expert in these matters, a foolish assumption.

I don't suppose there is anything I can do with my computer itself to solve this problem eh? I tried ellevating the computer off the floor, putting it on a desk, no luck. I have checked every component. It now seems that there is a small current even when the monitor is not plugged into the computer, it just gets a lot worse when I plug it in. As for the current not being painful, I am not using my uncalloused back of my hand to test, very painful. I want a solution fast. I already think maybe my new hard drive has been damages after just 2 days of this crap. There is no solution it seems.


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## WorldDestroyer (Apr 4, 2009)

I don't even know what makes an outlet here grounded to be honest. I don't speak the local lingo, and buying a power strip, have bought two, has yielded no results. MIght be good to just tell me how to purchase such, or tel me what exactly to look for, because I am totally ignorant when it comes to such things, totally.

How could I ground my computer if not the outlet, can I even do so? I am on the 4th floor so any of the hair brained solutions I have read about connecting wires to pipes or other things on ground level are stupid at best here, not to mention all pipes are plastic here, and there is very little metal, if any in a Chinese apartment.


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## nego-oh-oh (Jan 22, 2006)

Something that may be of intrest to you, Don't forget GOOGLE is your friend
copied most from WIKI


Discharging
Touching anything conductive to ground will remove the static with a zap. The reason for it being "grounded" is there are countless atoms in the earth willing to help balance out electrons. As long as there is connection with electron-transfering atoms to ground, the static will neutralize.
One trick to reduce shock is to discharge though keys or other metal object. That way you will not feel the sometimes painful shock.
Shoes
Friction from shoes on the carpet is a common source of electon imbalance. Try experimenting with different shoe soles and carpets before you buy them. Applying fabric softeners may also help but be careful not to make your shoes or floor slippery.
Humidity
Humid air is full of electron-transfering atoms so there will be less buildup in the room. Try opening a window or using a humidifier
Placement of Static Removal Brushes
Anti-static electricity brushes work by induction, much like a lightning rod. You do not need physical contact between the static eliminator brush and the target material. Placing the static removal brushes close to the material being moved will allow the electrons to jump across the air and discharge. Your anti electricity should be placed after the static charge has been created. To work effectively, your static control brush must be grounded
An antistatic wrist strap, ESD wrist strap, or ground bracelet is an antistatic device used to prevent electrostatic discharge (ESD) by safely grounding a person working on electronic equipment. It consists of a stretchy band of fabric with fine conductive fibers woven into it. The fibers are usually made of carbon or carbon-filled rubber, and the strap is bound with a stainless steel clasp or plate. They are usually used in conjunction with an anti-static mat on the workbench, or a special static-dissipating plastic laminate on the workbench surface.
An antistatic wrist strap with crocodile clip. The wrist strap is connected to ground through a coiled retractable cable and 1 megaohm resistor, which allows high-voltage charges to leak through but prevents a shock hazard when working with low-voltage parts. Where higher voltages are present, extra resistance (0.75 megaohm per 250V) is added in the path to ground to protect the wearer from excessive currents; this typically takes the form of a 4 megohm resistor in the coiled cable (or, more usually, a 2 megohm resistor at each end). Very cheap wrist straps do not have conductive fabric and instead use the fabric to hold the metal plate against the skin, which can result in reduced ESD protection over time as the metal corrodes.
Wrist straps in industry usually connect to Earth Bonding Points (part of the grounding system) via either a 4 mm plug or 10 mm press stud, whereas personally owned straps are likely to be connected to ground via a crocodile clip.
In addition to wrist straps, ankle and heel straps are used in industry to bleed away accumulated charge from a body. These devices are usually not tethered to earth ground, but instead incorporate high resistance in their construction, and work by dissipating electrical charge to special floor tiles. Such straps are used when workers need to be mobile in a work area and a grounding cable would get in the way
An antistatic floor mat or ground mat is one of a number of antistatic devices designed to help eliminate static electricity. It does this by having a conductive material embedded within the mat that collects the static. The mat would need to be grounded (earthed). This is usually accomplished by plugging into the grounded line in an electrical outlet. It's important to discharge at a slow rate, therefore a resistor should be used in earthing the mat. Some ground mats allow you to connect an antistatic wrist strap to them
The amount of static electricity we feel varies according to factors such as our body and foot size a larger body and bigger feet require more charge to be stored to produce the same voltage. The material our clothes are made from and the soles of our shoes can influence static electricity too. Weather affects it as well. There is more build-up of static charge when the air is dry.
Most people feel harmless shocks at around 2,000-4,000 volts. However electrical components can be damaged by as little as a few volts. It is estimated that between eight percent and 33 percent of product losses - the proportion of products which are rendered faulty - are due to static electriciy
harmful static charges from clothing such as wool, silk, and synthetic fabrics on people working with them. For these garments to work properly, they must also be connected to ground with a strap
if the humidity is low enough that your shoe soles don't conduct, then your body will become electrified. When you touch the grounded metal zap! 

Here's a better definition: "static electricity" is high voltage. For example, when you rub your head on a balloon, you create up to 50,000 volts between the balloon and your hair. More specifically, "static" is high voltage at low (or zero) current


http://www.esda.org/aboutESDA.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_Cage

http://amasci.com/emotor/vdgdesc.html


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## emosun (Oct 4, 2006)

This is a free tech advice forum , if you are unsatisfied with it you can visit many of the paid for forums , or go to a local computer store. But I surely wouldn't complain about people not solving your problem for you in their free time.


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## WorldDestroyer (Apr 4, 2009)

Well I just bought a volt tester, seems the amount of power being leaked is constant everywhere, 12 volts. It seems this might be enough to damage my PC, should I be overly worried though?

It's strange, because only the screws on my case are emitting leakage, the case itself is current free. Also, when I unplug the PC from the Monitor, I still have the same 12 volt problem, as does the monitor. That being the case, it would seem the problem is likely the wall socket.

My buildings outlets are not grounded, and I have no idea how to go about fixing this problem, if it is the outlet.

Anyhow, what is the risk involved with 12 volts? I know there is risk to the memory sticks, what about my hard drive, is the risk big, small? Whatever the answer I will find a solution to this problem, I Know any low level current leak can over time destroy components. I just want to know if there is an immediate danger, as it's hard to say when I'll find a solution. Thanks.


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## Commander Data (Apr 4, 2009)

No immediate danger.

You don't know about electricity, but I do. A lot.

So I'm not going to tell you to rub two balloons on your head and jump in the bath tub with your PC plugged in with you.

What you have is NOT static, so that's end of discussion. You have a 12v difference on these devices due to lack of grounding. (please don't armchair quarterback me on the over simplified explanations, he asked for it)

So now that we know you are on the 4th floor of the 3rd world, let's see what you can do about it. I once lived in substandard student housing with the same dilemma as you. 

When I say grounded, it infers that you are using THREE pronged connections for your voltage, because the 3rd prong is for ground. Since the building you are in doesn't make use of that 3rd prong in the electrical distribution, you need some fake grounding.

You mentioned pipes, so I know you at least have the concept of what's called "earth ground". If you can find a piece if metal that makes it all the way down in to the infrastructure then you may get a ground. You could use a piece if 18g stranded wire for this, and scuff\sand a clean connection on the metal to attach to. The wire would go from the wall outlet case to the metal pipe or rebar etc.

Now this is as far as I care to get all "MacGyver" about this. Obviously if you have no idea what you're doing you could get more then a 12v shock.

The hazards of not being grounded is the constant voltage potential and lack of lightening and surge protection. Inside your PC, it doesn't know it's not grounded in the outside world, it's own 12v is relative to the power supply and MB. Yes, the monitor is connected to the PC with an electrical connection, but they are the same potential above ground, so they're happy that way.

Any chance you can find a contractor there? I bet for $20usd you can get grounded.


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## WorldDestroyer (Apr 4, 2009)

I don't know if I would cal it the 3rd world, clearly you have never been here.

Anyhow, it is strange, it seems to vary depending on time of day, and often not even based on that. Sometimes the current seems less, sometimes more, I just don't get it.

As for getting grounded, I'm afraid the language barrier makes that hard.

I was told that it takes at least 36 volts of continuous current to actually damage your computer, is that true? I know this does not apply to the memory cards, but as for everything else, is this the case? Is 12 volts going to damage anything besides possibly the memory sticks?


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## Commander Data (Apr 4, 2009)

You're right, I have no idea where you are. The grounding problems I have faced were in Manila, Taipei and in Thailand.

If you have correct supply voltage from the wall, and the PC isn't touching anything else then there isn't any voltage going anywhere. Inside your PC, it's just like everywhere else in the world, that's what your PSU does, regulate voltage. On your MB will be the 3.3v, or 5v or 12v etc like it should be.

So if your equipment isn't touching anything else conductive it shouldn't fry. If you can't get a contractor and other grounding options are stupid at best, I don't know what else to say. I wish you much continued success.


.


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## WorldDestroyer (Apr 4, 2009)

I was merely referring to advice I had read elsewhere which doesn't work when I said "stupid" options, not anything recommended here. I also tried many other ways with no luck.

As for the case, well it is on the desk of course, but it has risers on the bottom.

I checked the case with a voltage meter, and it has 12 volts, hence it must be touching something, yes? Or is the voltage meter merely becoming the contact and therefore conducting current, and without it that would not be happening?

I lined the inside of the case, which took hours, with electrical tape, not even the power supply is touching the case, except through the screws of course. The motherboard is not touching either, nor are any of the connectors on the back of the case, or any other hard ware.

The problem is a very strange one, one which I can only chalk up to an ungrounded outlet. Whether or not this fries my PC is anyone's guess, I can only hope 12 Volts ain't enough to do so.


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## Commander Data (Apr 4, 2009)

Can you tell us where you are reading this voltage from? Where are you putting the two leads exactly? Are you measuring from one point of the PC case to another point on the PC or to the TV?

Are you using a digital VM? If so, can you also read any AC voltage?

In my experiences in the past with high power amps and audio equipment with grounding problems, when I touched the case I could feel there was an electric charge, it sort felt like it had a buzzing component to it. I felt it because my body had an inductive quality from the electric field around me. But since I wasn't reaching over and touching anything grounded, there was no real path for current to travel. My touching this just made me "above ground" with a charge, so to speak.

It was a weird feeling though, and I leaned over to listen to the case because I heard a faint buzzing, which felt like my hair was being cut with scissors. 


.


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## -WOLF- (Jan 17, 2009)

Connect your computer with a copper wire to your sink? Maybe talk with your land lord or superintendent and see if he or she knows if the place is grounded


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## WorldDestroyer (Apr 4, 2009)

Well I already opened up the wall outlet and had a look, no third wire. As I said, I have explored all options, and considering that the computer is not grounded, and I can find no other culprit, seems to be the most likely cause.

I unplugged the speakers, still have the problem. Believe me I have thought of most possibilities, seems like the problem is a simple one, lack of grounding.

As for talking to my landlord, I don't speak Chinese, so this makes it kind of difficult. I did discover that I simply need to cal the substation for my area and they will do the work, and only charge me for materials. All fine and dandy, however not speaking the lingo, well, makes all simple things hard.

There is not a buzzing sound, just the constant current I get from the case now, hardly noticeable, to the screws on the case, very noticeable.

The voltage meter I am using is a voltage reading screw driver, it reads volt as low as 12 and as high as 250 volts. However, being a pretty good voltage meter myself it's hard to discount the pain if I touch the computer using the back of my hand and not the front. 

Anyhow, the voltage is made worse when I plug in the monitor, but is still there when I unplug it, simply less. Like I said, it's clearly a grounding issue it seems, afraid that finding an answer will be my problem, like finding a local with enough understanding to set up the appointment for the EC to come by and fix the problem. By the way, most places in China are not grounded, a failing of a country that, to be honest, knows little about craftsmanship, sadly  .


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## -WOLF- (Jan 17, 2009)

It's not doing damage to your system, so I wouldn't worry about it, just don't touch it I mean it can't be hard not to touch the computer unless you have a fetish or something, but I don't live in sub-standard housing but it is out of date housing, my situation is that I don't have a ground wire poking out of the receptacle box, it stops just behind the box making the box the ground, you should check to see if that might be your situation.
Just out of curiosity, why are you living in China? If you are not going to learn the language then you must be either working or studying as just leasurely living somewhere where you can't understand the language is pointless.


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