# starting computer science



## tanveerahmed2k (Jan 25, 2011)

I am quite annoyed to be honest I paid £7400 to get into a course at university so I can learn programming only to find out first year is BlueJ (google it) and it involes sõoo much maths and I generally suck at maths so is this good bye to my programming dreams?


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## Special2God (Oct 5, 2009)

Are you referring to this program BlueJ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm surprised that your university didn't start with Java or C# for object oriented programming and learning the basics of a programming language. 

What timing on your question, Ace and I just responded to a somewhat similar question here: http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f128/do-you-really-need-to-know-physics-to-be-a-programmer-673893.html. 

Programming definitely requires a lot of logic, not necessarily a lot of math 'equations'. But you still have to be able to think logically about data and what you want to do with that data. 

To answer your last sentence, I would say that you need the ability to think logically and abstractly. I'm fairly bad a proofs and complex algorithm analysis, but I've done fairly well in all the programming classes I've taken. 
I'm not sure what helps me program, but I my opinion being a math genius is not required.


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## AceInfinity (Jan 21, 2012)

Math is for the most part logistics in itself btw. Which is why i'd consider it a valuable asset in programming success. To be a programmer, you need to be able to think logically, not only to make the program you're coding, but to avoid or fix bugs as well in the future. It's all check this, and if this, do this kind of stuff. Exception handling, options, and functionality, as well as performance (being able to think of the fastest shortcuts to do a certain task). Math is your friend.

It helps, but it doesn't mean you can't be a programmer. It depends on what areas of math you aren't the greatest at as well. Perhaps it's algebra? You may struggle with variables? In which case there's a bit of a problem for you... Perhaps it is physics (as in the last topic similar to this)? You may find some programming easy, game programming, not so much.

Good luck 
~Ace


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## TeenScripts (Oct 27, 2012)

Special2God said:


> Are you referring to this program BlueJ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I'm surprised that your university didn't start with Java or C# for object oriented programming and learning the basics of a programming language.
> 
> ...


Im surprised they didn't start with Basic, Just Basic or VB!


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## AceInfinity (Jan 21, 2012)

TeenScripts said:


> Im surprised they didn't start with Basic, Just Basic or VB!


I don't like how they start with VB. (VB6?). It's outdated, and likely to be overtaken by VB.NET in the near future entirely, as it already has somewhat as of today.

I can't find reason for why current education doesn't update their material... VB6 is still taught, but it's essentially useless. VB.NET is just as easy in my opinion, although you wouldn't be outdated after learning the basics of programming logic.


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## TeenScripts (Oct 27, 2012)

AceInfinity said:


> I don't like how they start with VB. (VB6?). It's outdated, and likely to be overtaken by VB.NET in the near future entirely, as it already has somewhat as of today.
> 
> I can't find reason for why current education doesn't update their material... VB6 is still taught, but it's essentially useless. VB.NET is just as easy in my opinion, although you wouldn't be outdated after learning the basics of programming logic.


True but those types of languages are essential and can easily help you understand other programming languages. I started programming by learning JustBasic and I think it helped me out a lot down the road.


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## Special2God (Oct 5, 2009)

VB imo is very outdated. 
Something like C# helps you get practical, transferable experience that applies to all of the current major languages. 
C#/Java/C++ includes OO, same parenthesis/quotes/semicolon usage, good support, lots of information on the internet, etc.


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## TeenScripts (Oct 27, 2012)

Special2God said:


> VB imo is very outdated.
> Something like C# helps you get practical, transferable experience that applies to all of the current major languages.
> C#/Java/C++ includes OO, same parenthesis/quotes/semicolon usage, good support, lots of information on the internet, etc.


I agree with you guys but even though they are outdated. They build up the main structure of Programming, they teach the basic and teach you how to create GUI's and etc... And they are practical! And what kind of skillful programmer has never encountered Basic, VB, JB.... But yes C# and C++ are good to start with too if your up for the challenge.


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

I've never coded in VB but I am doing perfectly fine coding in C# on my Computer Science degree.

However, I find that it's partly due to the skills I got from coding PHP in the past.


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## TeenScripts (Oct 27, 2012)

I have never coded in C# but is it similar to PHP? I code a whole lot in PHP and if it's pretty similar i might start on it.


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## Special2God (Oct 5, 2009)

@RedEye
Good point, I started my programming in web languages like HTML and CSS. 
That's where (as well as batch scripts) I learned basic syntax and some of the 'rules' of how computers behave. 

Abstract languages like Javascript can also be a good start that gives people immediate feedback. 
For example KhanAcademy's Javascript Canvas is a great way to see what you are programming and play with your code interactively Welcome to Computer Science | Computer Science | Khan Academy

@TeenScripts
From my experience, C# has somewhat different syntax that PHP since C# is a compiled language. Plus C# is just C#, whereas PHP can be PHP+HTML mixed together.


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## TeenScripts (Oct 27, 2012)

I still code in Html and CSS and i find the languages to be fun! It would be so much better if the other languages were as simple as them. I also heard XML is similar to Html so i might start that as well.


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## Special2God (Oct 5, 2009)

XML is not as much a language as it is a protocol for storing data. 
I started to learn XML and stopped because I didn't have a need to use it at the moment. 

(plus see note on my previous post)


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## TeenScripts (Oct 27, 2012)

Special2God said:


> XML is not as much a language as it is a protocol for storing data.
> I started to learn XML and stopped because I didn't have a need to use it at the moment.
> 
> (plus see note on my previous post)


Ah, thank's
I skipped through a book on Android app development and 80% of it was XML code, but apparently Android apps are made with Java and like 10% XML so i was a little confused...


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

XML (eXtended Markup Language) isn't a coding language. I don't really get what it is exactly, but it isn't a language :shrug:

C# and PHP are quiet different, however the basic skills are the same.

Iteration (if, else) is used in both. Looping is used in both. Switches are used in both. Arrays are used in both. Classes are used in both (though not so much in PHP). 

If you can understand these, than it limits it down to getting the syntax right and the minor differences.

Also, C# is a compiled language whilst PHP is interperated (which means you need to declare the variables before using them in c# but not in PHP).


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## TeenScripts (Oct 27, 2012)

I see, I also do some C++ and C# is obviously similar.


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## AceInfinity (Jan 21, 2012)

TeenScripts said:


> True but those types of languages are essential and can easily help you understand other programming languages. I started programming by learning JustBasic and I think it helped me out a lot down the road.


There's no reason to start programming adventures though in an outdated language to get the fundamental aspects of programming down however. Instead of starting in VB6, you'd be just as well off in VB.NET for starting out, only you'd be able to take things further if you wished.



TeenScripts said:


> I agree with you guys but even though they are outdated. They build up the main structure of Programming, they teach the basic and teach you how to create GUI's and etc... And they are practical! And what kind of skillful programmer has never encountered Basic, VB, JB.... But yes C# and C++ are good to start with too if your up for the challenge.


Lots of other languages that are not outdated can do just the same. I understand what you're saying, but logically, there's no reason to be practicing in today's day and age with an outdated language to begin your programming learning curve whatsoever.



TeenScripts said:


> I still code in Html and CSS and i find the languages to be fun! It would be so much better if the other languages were as simple as them. I also heard XML is similar to Html so i might start that as well.


HTML and XML are not programming languages, only markup languages. XML was mentioned in earlier posts, but just making sure you know that HTML is included in this non-programming languages 'list' we've defined thus far.



TeenScripts said:


> I see, I also do some C++ and C# is obviously similar.


This is the reason why i'd recommend C#. It's one of my stronger points when recommending a starting programming language to a beginner. Use of pointers, case sensitive-ness, syntax, etc... All similar to more advanced languages such as C++ if one ever chooses to expand in the future.

VB.NET is okay as well, mostly for programming concepts, as it's the closest thing to a translator from English to "Programming Talk" as you can get. Programming in VB.NET is almost like describing what you're programming with all of the easy-to-understand keywords that are available to you.

I'd never recommend an outdated language though, as there's no chance for extensibility there. Things in your language could become obsolete halfway through your programming learning curve, and you'd be forced to the limitations of a no longer updated/improved language, in which hardly anybody uses anymore. You're going to make a switch hopefully somewhere down the road, so why not make it earlier on, to allow yourself to keep "up to date" for a longer period of time before your new found knowledge basically renders you useless (aside from your knowledge of basic programming and logic concepts)?

To do otherwise would hardly make any sense in my opinion.

~Ace


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## TeenScripts (Oct 27, 2012)

:O Nice Work! Thank's for the recommendations too.


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## tanveerahmed2k (Jan 25, 2011)

BlueJ is apparently a java ide or something( a really bad one) I just don't know if its me and the lack of effort I put in and whining aswell or I should put extra hours aside and just do it? For the sake of it I always wanted to know java so I could make some minecraft plugins/mods (which is all java)

Edit: I also wanted to learn php for some fancy forms and stuff for my site


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

I am currently doing my first year of a BSc Computer Science Degree. What exactly is the Computer Science Degree you are doing tan?


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## tanveerahmed2k (Jan 25, 2011)

Just normal computer science bsc at hertfordshire where are you doing it?


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

tanveerahmed2k said:


> Just normal computer science bsc at hertfordshire where are you doing it?


The local College which is a Associate of Anglia Ruskin University (who are the ones who I am doing the degree for..)


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## tanveerahmed2k (Jan 25, 2011)

what modules are you doing in semester 1?


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

Fundamentals of Design (aweful module, full of Models) & Introduction to Programming


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## tanveerahmed2k (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm doing emedia design(its ok) foundations of computing(argh I hate maths) programming principles (blueJ damnit) and system requirments(complete pile of crap)


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