# having a hard time finding a job



## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

I have been looking for work for a while.with no.luck i lack exp but do general odd rpairs for.family and 
I have an A+ and mcp
Finding it really hard to land a job?


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> I have been looking for work for a while.with no.luck i lack exp but do general odd rpairs for.family and
> I have an A+ and mcp
> Finding it really hard to land a job?


Yep. The entry-level IT market is absolutely saturated right now with people looking to switch careers in a down economy. Best thing you can do is to be persistent: keep applying for jobs. 

The only other certification that would be useful to you at this point would be Network+. However, it is not an absolute requirement for you to do so.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

i am stuyding for the n+ but the market is so competitive and i feel like the a+ means nothing to employers what would cert would you suggest i need for a tier 2 suport.role


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> i am stuyding for the n+ but the market is so competitive and i feel like the a+ means nothing to employers what would cert would you suggest i need for a tier 2 suport.role


No certification will enable you to get a tier 2 support role. For that you need experience. That's why tier 1 exists. Might not be what you want to do now, but that's where you get experience. You don't jump on a ladder in the middle, nor do you start a book at Chapter 5... you start at the beginning.

Look at this from the employer's perpspective... here's this guy who has zero IT experience who thinks he can bypass entry-level and start out in front of those tier 1 techs who I've already hired. What would cause the employer to hire you? If all those tier 1 techs needed for a promotion was to take an exam, wouldn't they ALL do that?

Certifications without experience aren't going to enable you to get anything better (unless you have an uncle who is an IT manager and is willing to put his butt on the line to vouch for you). And higher-level certifications (which don't have anything to do with entry-level tech work) would drive entry-level employers away - after all, they don't need a CCNA to do entry-level tech work. What you need are entry-level certifications (A+, Network+, Microsoft client certs) and an entry-level job (help desk, tier 1 support tech, PC repair tech, field service tech, desktop support tech, etc.).


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

why study certs in the 1st place i might aswell just try looking for a role without them and get the exp but employers wont even look at me without them.

within the company i work for i had a really bad exp in a 1st line help desk role were the team leader took me on with just an MCP in xp witch isnt much then expected me to know evrything within 1 week bear in mind that i had no exp 
just the MCP cert and then was threatening me with my job ,thats what preety much turned me off 1st line support therfore i decided to retrack back to my old job as a general admin worker thank god or i would have been out of work.

that was 2 years ago and it made me look at 1st line support in a bad way as i see it as job were you log a call pass it to the guys that then look depeer into to the problem and try to find a solution rather than have 5 mins to try a fix it.

not to sure what to do as i look at cert as the only way i can get employer to take me serious, and then hopefully someone will give me a real oppertunity to get the hand on exp not like the 1st line role at my company were the team leader was i felt not really willing to give me a real chance 

motivation is slowly going and some time i think what is the point


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> why study certs in the 1st place i might aswell just try looking for a role without them and get the exp but employers wont even look at me without them.


You should get certifications because they can make you look more attractive to an employer... as long as they are certifications that match your experience level. Entry-level certifications are designed for people who don't have any IT experience, so those are the ones you should be focusing on.



wayne237 said:


> within the company i work for i had a really bad exp in a 1st line help desk role...


Wait, I thought you had no IT experience. Do you have experience or not?



wayne237 said:


> ...were the team leader took me on with just an MCP in xp witch isnt much then expected me to know evrything within 1 week bear in mind that i had no exp
> just the MCP cert and then was threatening me with my job ,thats what preety much turned me off 1st line support therfore i decided to retrack back to my old job as a general admin worker thank god or i would have been out of work.


So... because you have a bad experience with one employer, you think all employers are going to be like that?

If 1st line "expects you to know everything"... how do you expect to survive in 2nd line, where they expect you to know everything from 1st line plus more?



wayne237 said:


> that was 2 years ago and it made me look at 1st line support in a bad way as i see it as job were you log a call pass it to the guys that then look depeer into to the problem and try to find a solution rather than have 5 mins to try a fix it.


Not all 1st line jobs involve logging and passing. In fact, I'd say that those are in the minority. Most do involve basic troubleshooting, and that is what will give you the experience to be able to advance to the next level.



wayne237 said:


> not to sure what to do as i look at cert as the only way i can get employer to take me serious, and then hopefully someone will give me a real oppertunity to get the hand on exp not like the 1st line role at my company were the team leader was i felt not really willing to give me a real chance
> 
> motivation is slowly going and some time i think what is the point


Well, as someone who has worked in IT for 14 years, and has been the guy on the other side of the interview table, I can guarantee you that certifications without experience are not likely to get you a higher-level IT job. If you want to start in IT, get an entry-level job. If you want a better chance at getting an entry-level job, get entry-level certifications. I can't put it more plainly than that.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

2 ,3 weeks on 1st line i woulnt class that as enough exp

I am aiming for.the n+ then after mcts desktop support cert
But i just think even with these i will still.find it hard 2 nd line probley would.suit me more but thats not to say i am not prepeared to start off on 1st line i cant seem to find a 1st line role and just wondering how many certs do i need to get a 1st line role where i can then work my way to 2nd line 

I dont hope to just land a 2nd line role without any exp i just meant i would.be more.suited on that level sorry if i did.not state that earlier and very much appreiate your feed back


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## epshatto (Dec 23, 2010)

I would say generally what you'd need is A+, Network+, and Windows 7 cert, or a combination of any two of those for Tier 1. For Tier 2 you need those certifications and 1-2 years experience as a Tier 1.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

epshatto said:


> I would say generally what you'd need is A+, Network+, and Windows 7 cert, or a combination of any two of those for Tier 1. For Tier 2 you need those certifications and 1-2 years experience as a Tier 1.


I agree with epshatto's advice.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

Thats the plan get my n + then mcts in windows 7 do u think its more than sufficent to get a 1st line support role?


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

Thats the plan passed a+ now going for the n+then mcts 7 u t]ink that is more than enough for a teir 1 support role with mo exp?

A+
Mcp


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> Thats the plan get my n + then mcts in windows 7 do u think its more than sufficent to get a 1st line support role?


As I said before:



BosonMichael said:


> What you need are entry-level certifications (A+, Network+, Microsoft client certs) and an entry-level job (help desk, tier 1 support tech, PC repair tech, field service tech, desktop support tech, etc.).


And, as epshatto said:



epshatto said:


> I would say generally what you'd need is A+, Network+, and Windows 7 cert, or a combination of any two of those for Tier 1.


Certifications won't guarantee that you'll get a tier 1 job. But they can certainly make you look more attractive to employers.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

thanks for the advice guys

I am going to focus on the n+ and a microsoft crt for the time being and once i have them under my belt then start applying for tier 1 jobs and hopefully that should be enough 

Feedback much appreciated


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> thanks for the advice guys
> 
> I am going to focus on the n+ and a microsoft crt for the time being and once i have them under my belt then start applying for tier 1 jobs and hopefully that should be enough
> 
> Feedback much appreciated


The only change that I would recommend is to start applying for tier 1 jobs NOW. Don't wait until you're certified, because certification isn't required for most tier 1 jobs... plus, you've already got the A+. 

One thing is certain: you will get exactly 0% of the jobs you don't apply for. Apply now, even before you're certified. As you get more certifications, add them to your resume and keep looking.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

the dilema i have here in the uk is all the tiet 1 jobs i see state min 12-2 year
Exp and extensive kowlede of server echange citrix blackberry mcitp mcse-a and 
I feel that that the a+ n+ just aint going to cut it cause thats what employers over here were i live r looking for 
And untill i have a major cert lik the mcitp or server 2008 or something bigger than a+ i just wont even get reconized by any and the fact i dont have any real commercial exp is another factor to add


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

wayne237 said:


> the dilema i have here in the uk is all the tiet 1 jobs i see state min 12-2 year
> Exp and extensive kowlede of server echange citrix blackberry mcitp mcse-a and
> I feel that that the a+ n+ just aint going to cut it cause thats what employers over here were i live r looking for
> And untill i have a major cert lik the mcitp or server 2008 or something bigger than a+ i just wont even get reconized by any and the fact i dont have any real commercial exp is another factor to add


I live in the UK there are entery level jobs out there that do not require experience and have on the job training.

It took me 8 years to get into IT with a 3 year break.

Try writing to companies that may need your help, have you considered volunteering for a charity although you wont get paid you will get experience.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

Can u give me an example cause i am looking high and low on all
The major job site everyday
I would definetley consder voulutry to get the exp


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

wayne237 said:


> Can u give me an example cause i am looking high and low on all
> The major job site everyday
> I would definetley consder voulutry to get the exp


I cant give you an example but have you thought about getting out the yellow pages and writing to any companies you can find which may need someone to support their systems (most companies use computers these days you do not have to work for a technology company).

I volunteered at a charity for a while, whilst building computers for people with a partner who ended up getting me a job as an IT tech.

I made the mistake for many years by applying for jobs that were beyond my experience level and I could never work out why I would not get hired although I did get some interviews. You should look for trainee positions and jobs which require no experience.

FYI if a job says trainee then says you need experience still apply for the job.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

thats is what i am lookinf for but i never see any 1st line support rol that say no experience they alway say stuff like min 6 month exp knowledeg of ITIL AD -03 or 08 exchange server 
i have honstley not seen any role that says no exp

i just want some sort of oppertunity to get the hands on exp cause even before i got my a plus i was applying for jobs that said good knowledge of pc laptops printers and diagnosing basic fault ,and never got a call back now having my a plus hasnt made a difference .
the only way i see i would be more attractive to employers is by have something equivelent to a MCSA-E, because the A+ doesent mean much in my eyes to employers, and i thinking now after halfway through the N+ plus is this really gunna help me land a job or am i wasting my time.



cause i m having no luck at all


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## epshatto (Dec 23, 2010)

I very, very rarely ever see jobs advertised as "no experience necessary" for IT. They do pop up on occassion but not frequently.

Don't pay too much attention to the "years" they advertise they want experience for. That doesn't mean they won't hire you if you haven't been in the industry that long. Think of those "requirements" as really being "best case candidate" for the company. That's what they want to find, but they're not stupid - if a good candidate comes along that doesn't match exactly everything they advertise for, they'll still at least consider that candidate and if they feel you can be trained or you have a path going forward, they may still hire you.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> thats is what i am lookinf for but i never see any 1st line support rol that say no experience they alway say stuff like min 6 month exp knowledeg of ITIL AD -03 or 08 exchange server
> i have honstley not seen any role that says no exp
> 
> i just want some sort of oppertunity to get the hands on exp cause even before i got my a plus i was applying for jobs that said good knowledge of pc laptops printers and diagnosing basic fault ,and never got a call back now having my a plus hasnt made a difference .
> the only way i see i would be more attractive to employers is by have something equivelent to a MCSA-E, because the A+ doesent mean much in my eyes to employers, and i thinking now after halfway through the N+ plus is this really gunna help me land a job or am i wasting my time.


Jobs administering servers are not entry-level jobs. And the reason you're probably not seeing many (or any) job openings that don't require experience is because, as I mentioned earlier, the job market is absolutely flooded with people getting into IT.

By all means, if you want to get those upper-level certifications, get them. But I'm tellin' ya, employers do NOT view certifications as a substitute for experience. Either you believe that, or you don't, and if you don't, then I guess you're not looking for advice... you simply want someone to agree with the decision you've already made. Sorry, man... I'm not gonna fill you full of false hope and impossible dreams. I'm gonna tell you what you need to do to get an IT job as quickly and as efficiently as possible.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

I understand fully what u mean but the cert seem to give some sort off hope that somone might take me serious in wanting a job in i.t 
And without keeping my mind focused on gettin certs i mays as well be happy for employer to just keep overlooking me and just go with the fact that somone one is going to give me a chance without knowing basic stuff witch i feel that how is an employer really going to take u serious when u dont even know the basic stuff how does that make u more attractive?
I am just saying that cert without no exp has to look better than no cert just saying i want to work in i.t but dont have a e basic knowledge then asking somone to train u on all aspect of a role 

Just need to keep motivated in the fact that with certs and higher level cert somone might just think i am serious 
Thank for the honest opionion


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> I understand fully what u mean...


Sorry, Wayne, if you still think that getting more and more certifications are going to get you noticed, then you don't fully understand what I mean.



wayne237 said:


> but the cert seem to give some sort off hope that somone might take me serious in wanting a job in i.t


...hope that is false. That's why I'm giving you the advice I am. If you don't want to accept that advice, that's fine - go out and get the certifications and see what happens for yourself.



wayne237 said:


> And without keeping my mind focused on gettin certs...


You need to get your mind focused on getting a full-time IT job. If you took the time you put forth worrying about certs and channeled HALF of that into finding a job, you'd greatly increase your chances of getting a job.



wayne237 said:


> ...i mays as well be happy for employer to just keep overlooking me and just go with the fact that somone one is going to give me a chance without knowing basic stuff witch i feel that how is an employer really going to take u serious when u dont even know the basic stuff how does that make u more attractive?


Advanced certifications are NOT "the basic stuff". The A+ and Network+ certifications cover "the basic stuff".

If you've got a bunch of paper certifications with no experience to back it up, how is an employer automagically gonna "take u serious"? Considering there are "cheat sheets" out there that help people cheat on exams, do you really think that passing an exam is going to get employers to respect your abilities without experience?



wayne237 said:


> I am just saying that cert without no exp has to look better than no cert just saying i want to work in i.t but dont have a e basic knowledge then asking somone to train u on all aspect of a role
> 
> Just need to keep motivated in the fact that with certs and higher level cert somone might just think i am serious
> Thank for the honest opionion


I've already explained how higher-level certifications can drive away entry-level employers, while not doing anything to sway higher-level employers, but, as I said, do as you will. It is unlikely that I will be able to say anything to you that will make a difference in the decision you have already made.

I wish you the best of luck in your job search!!


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

Put it this way Wayne. Getting advanced certs without experience will make an employer think (A) You have cheated (B) you will leave as soon as you get experience for a better job and pay elsewhere (C) that your too highly qualified for an entry level position.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

i get what u mean now just gunna get the N+ under my belt then focus more on getting a job and thanks again for the constructive feed back 
Sometime i am thinking to way ahead and like u said i have to start thinking more about getting the exp more than certs witch makes completley more sense i guess i am looking to far ahead and not focusing on the entry level market
So u advise i should get the n+ then be more than equiped to handle a teir 1 role ?


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Do as Boson Michael advised and start applying now send them to any company you can find, and keep doing it no matter how small the company,you can negotiate about finishing the cert if and when you get through the interview
there are a host of sites to look through new jobs in it - Google Search


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> So u advise i should get the n+ then be more than equiped to handle a teir 1 role ?


You're equipped for a Tier 1 role NOW. Network+ will simply make you look more attractive to employers.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

Yeh ayeh im gunna start working on my resume and covet letter 
Any tips guys on making yourself attractive to employer ?


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Here one place for some tips on your resume Help With Your Resume and CV: The Riley Guide
there are lots more out there


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> Yeh ayeh im gunna start working on my resume and covet letter
> Any tips guys on making yourself attractive to employer ?


Um... get entry-level certifications? No, wait, we've already said that. :grin:

Make sure your resume is polished. A poorly formed resume and/or cover letter is a sure-fire way to get put in the "DO NOT INTERVIEW" pile. Don't embellish, but be sure to list what you know (and more importantly, what you have done).

When you get an interview, be confident, but not cocky. Don't be stressed, or at least, don't look like it. If you're stressed in an interview, you'll be stressed when the servers crash. If you don't know the answer to a question, don't make up an answer - interviewers can spot that a mile away. Simply state that you don't know the answer, but you know where to find it (assuming you do).

Hope this helps.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

LOL course he does:hide::ssst::arrowu:


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

Yoi m lost when u say of course he does am i missing something here? Update pleade


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi:

Yes, do take your time on a resume. Make sure that someone else checks your spelling and grammar. You need to get out habit of text message type of writting. 

BG


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

I am thinkin about getting it proffesinaly wright up and paying that bit extra to get this done as i dont think i am selling myself.enough


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

I m text like speaking cause i m on this site ,i know my how to use my grammar just when i want too or when i need to


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

My comment was in response to Boson Michael ie you could ask a forum


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

apolagies for missunderstanding u just a litttle stresses girlfriend issues


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

wayne237 said:


> I m text like speaking cause i m on this site ,i know my how to use my grammar just when i want too or when i need to


You might be surprised at how often your online posts are viewed by employers... or that you could possibly be offered a job based on your posts. I'm living proof: I was offered a contract to write a book because of my involvement on another forum. And I *never* use txtspk.

If it's important enough to say (type), it's important enough to be said (typed) correctly. Just my opinion.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

As BM said

You would be suprised how easy it is to find info on someone. Just type greenbrucelee into google and see what it comes up with.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

greenbrucelee said:


> As BM said
> 
> You would be suprised how easy it is to find info on someone. Just type greenbrucelee into google and see what it comes up with.


I did. Couldn't sleep for three days afterwards. :wink:

:grin:


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

BosonMichael said:


> I did. Couldn't sleep for three days afterwards. :wink:
> 
> :grin:


lol, I am all over the place :grin:


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Now stop frightening the children lol


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

joeten said:


> Now stop frightening the children lol


I try not to.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

Its been a while but still havent had any any luck landing a entry level i.t role i am starting to feel demoted to a new level and now thinking am i just fighting a losing battle 

Need so inspiration to keep going as i aint getting any younger


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

It is a hard market for jobs all over could you volunteer to some charity church or company just to help beef up your resume and gain some experience


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

wayne237 said:


> Its been a while but still havent had any any luck landing a entry level i.t role i am starting to feel demoted to a new level and now thinking am i just fighting a losing battle
> 
> Need so inspiration to keep going as i aint getting any younger


It took me 8 years, well 5 really because I had a 3 year break from trying.


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## wayne237 (Mar 21, 2012)

Tried for voulenteering cant even get a respone for that


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

You just have to keep pushing out the paper and look at any no as a step towards the one that will say yes and those that don't reply as it being their loss


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

wayne237 said:


> Tried for voulenteering cant even get a respone for that


I did that for a while, made my CV look good.



joeten said:


> You just have to keep pushing out the paper and look at any no as a step towards the one that will say yes and those that don't reply as it being their loss


This, I got my last job by getting out the yellow pages and writing a generic letter to just about every company in it that I thought would need someone to look after and fix issues. I think I sent out 80-100 letters.

I got 3 replies and one interview. It is hard and frustrating but if you persevere you will triumph.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Best advice I can give is to keep trying. It's not easy getting your first IT job, particularly in this economy. The entry-level IT market is absolutely flooded with people switching fields and trying to get into IT. But eventually, you will get your chance. Be persistent - don't give up. And put all your effort into it - don't just send out a few resumes and hope something happens... get out there and work at getting an IT job.


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