# computer powers off (not heat problem)



## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

after having my computer serviced, the company replaced my motherboard and sent it back to me and i started noticing a problem that the computer would power off whenever I was on it. The intervals for when the power would turn off was very random; sometimes it would power off right after I booted up, and sometimes it would take around 6-8 hours, but it usually powered off frequently. My computer is plugged into a power strip, so I decided to plug it directly into the wall, and this seemed to help a little bit (I could leave my computer on overnight without it shutting down) but that it would still power off regardless. I am wondering if this is a problem with the motherboard (since they replaced it and the problem started happening) or the PSU, or with something else. thank you for your help.


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## crazijoe (Oct 19, 2004)

We probably need a little more info. Can you give us some specs on your system. i.e. motherboard make and model, PSU make and model, memory type, size and configuration. 
Also Please post if you are getting any BSODs and what messages are being displayed.


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

no error messages at all; just power off as though someone pulled the plug. I can immediately turn it back on again every time, and set in my BIOS to restart on power failure, which it did not when it shut down. here is my computer info:

CAS: Hot New! X-Cruiser Mid-Tower 420W Case W/ WINDOW, MultiMeter Display &
Control (Black Color)
CASUPGRADE: NONE
CPU: (939-pin) AMD Athlon(TM)64 3700+ CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology [+87]
CD: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) (BLACK COLOR)
CD2: SONY 52X CD-ROM [+15] (BLACK COLOR)
CABLE: None
FLASHMEDIA: INTERNAL 6in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BEIGE COLOR)
FLOPPY: 1.44 MB FLOPPY DRIVE [+10] (BLACK COLOR)
FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
HDD: 200GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive -- Recommended [+31]
HDD2: NONE
IEEE_CARD: NONE
KEYBOARD: PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET CONTROL KEYBOARD (BEIGE COLOR)
MOUSE: PS2 INTERNET MOUSE W/ WHEEL (Special!!! BEIGE COLOR MICROSOFT USB
INTELLIMOUSE)
MONITOR: ViewSonic Q7B 17" TFT Active Matrix LCD Display Monitor (BLACK Only)
[+215]
MOTHERBOARD: (Sckt939)EVGA nForce4 SLI Chipset SATA RAID Dual PCI-E Mainboard
w/GbLAN,USB2.0,&7.1Audio
MEMORY: 1024 MB (512MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY [+60] (Corsair
XMS High Performance Memory w/ Heat Spreader [+51])
MSGAME: FREE! AGE OF EMPIRE III
MODEM: NONE
NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
OS: Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home Edition w/ Service Pack 2 [+89]
PRINTER: None
PRINTER_CABLE: None
PRO_WIRING: None
POWERSUPPLY: **Cyberpower Recommended** NZXT PF-500 500Watt Power Supply [+39]
RAID: NONE
RUSH: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS
SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL
SUPPORT
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
SPEAKERS: 600WATT PMPO SUBWOOFER STEREO SPEAKERS
TEMP: NONE (AS SHOWN)
TVRC: None
UPS: None
USB: Build-in USB 2.0 Ports
USBHD: NONE
VIDEOCAMERA: NONE
VIDEO: NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GT 256MB 16X PCI Express Video Card [+267]
VIDEO2: NONE
WIRELESSCARD: NONE
WIRELESSPOINT: NONE
ZIP: NONE

thank you

*edit* as of now it has been on roughly 12 hours, but i have not been doing anything on it.

*edit2* i believe they replaced the EVGA nForce4 mainboard with a Biostar nForce4 mainboard. i do not know if this affects anything or not


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## crazijoe (Oct 19, 2004)

You PSU raises a red flag. I have never heard of the brand and question the quality of it. If your BIOS lists the voltages, you might want to post them here. Remember the voltage output of the PSU must be + or - 5% to be within tolerances. If you have a spare PSU, you might try and swap it out to see if this would cure the problem.


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

I have speedfan running now:

Vcore1: 1.34V
Vcore2: 1.52V
+3.3V: 3.36V
+5V: 5.11V
+12V: 11.90V
-12V: 2.53V
-5V: 1.23V
+5V: 4.97V
Vbat: 3.06V

in Voltage Control in my motherboard:

CPU Spec - 1.35V
NB/SB Voltage Regulator - 1.52V
DDR Voltage Regulator - Default


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

ok i talked to the tech support and they told me to remove a stick of RAM and try it then. can anyone please explain this to me ? thanks


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

I think their grasping at straws, sometimes with a system freeze it can be suggested to remove a stick of ram just to try and isolate a bad stick but in this situation when the computer just powers down I don't see thats helping.

Your voltages are ok but that don't mean the psu ain't flaky, if the computer would random restart then it could be a couple of things but to just shut down tells me the psu is bad or at least thats the first thing I would try replacing.

This is assuming your temps are good because if you have high cpu temp the bios or monitoring software could shut the computer down


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

have a look on newegg.com for an Enermax PSU 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817194010


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

i am still under warranty from the company, so if i were to return the computer, should I ask them to replace the PSU and motherboard ? or just the PSU ? it takes a while for the company to service the computer, so just to be on the safe side, i'd like to replace any potential piece that could be causing the problem. what do you suggest ?

thank you for suggesting a psu, but instead of spending $100, i would like at least to try replacing a piece for free. the problem only started after the motherboard was replaced, so i know that it has worked in the past.

thank you


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Thats hard to answer, I would request a better psu even though the problem started after the mobo change but yes it could be the board.

Why did they change the board to begin with?


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

my computer would freeze during different applications and i sent it in and suggested a motherboard change to see if that would solve the problem. it didn't, and i finally fixed that problem by replacing the video card, but after they replaced the motherboard, this problem started.


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Just so I am clear on this, the computer just shuts down, correct?

Or does it restart?


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

shuts down with no power


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Yea thats the problem if it was resarting there are somethings we could try but with it just shutting down like that it pretty much eliminates software as a issue.

I am going to check on a few things and will post back.

Look on the motherboard for the name and model number and post it


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

this is my current motherboard:

http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboard/board.php?name=N4SLI-A9


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## TechDragon (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm pretty sure the fact that it shuts down and doesn't reset eliminates all software problems and most hardware problems. Maybe your PSU is the kind that incrementally takes in large amounts of power from the plug, instead of a steady small flow, which can stress the PSU and, in low quality PSUs, which yours looks like it may be, can cause problems.


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

ok update*

I ordered a replacement PSU from the company so I will try that and see... but something new just happened

right after it powered off, I powered it back on and continued watching a movie on VLC. in less than a minute, my computer locked up; i couldn't move the mouse at all or anything.

does this mean that it is the motherboard causing the problem, or something else unrelated ?


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Hmm,thats a new twist and suggests to me that it is the motherboard because ususally a bad psu will just shut down or reboot.

keep us posted


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

just got a replacement PSU from the company - Aspire ATX-AS500W

don't know much about computers, so I don't know if that is good or not. previous power supply was an NZXT PP500

will update if it shuts down after this, but if it does, my only guess is that it is the motherboard.

thanks for everyone's help with this issue


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

swapping one medium quality psu for another of the same wattage is questionable
you would expect to see a quality 550-650w in the system,your video card pulls a 128w on it's own
http://www.techsupportforum.com/showthread.php?t=107466


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## Animosity (Jul 4, 2004)

Yeah you need to get a GOOD quality power supply of at LEAST 550W with your system. Get an antec, enermax, etc like mentioned before. The one you had before was way too weak.


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

> just got a replacement PSU from the company - Aspire ATX-AS500W
> 
> don't know much about computers, so I don't know if that is good or not. previous power supply was an NZXT PP500
> 
> will update if it shuts down after this, but if it does, my only guess is that it is the motherboard.


Please keep us ubdated on this I am interested in the solution


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

*update*

problem seems to be fixed. it has not shut down since i put in the new PSU and i have left it on for a great deal of time. i don't know if the old PSU went bad or if the old PSU was incompatible with the new motherboard (if that's possible), but this new one seems to be working. thanks to all who helped.

also question - is there any danger of hurting my PSU if i leave my computer on for extended periods of time ? i don't really know much about computers, so this is a noob question, but i am just wondering if im able to leave my computer on overnight or for a day and not be at risk for hurting the new power supply. thanks.


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Your welcome and glad its fixed.



> also question - is there any danger of hurting my PSU if i leave my computer on for extended periods of time ? i don't really know much about computers, so this is a noob question, but i am just wondering if im able to leave my computer on overnight or for a day and not be at risk for hurting the new power supply.


Opinions differ on this but I believe it don't hurt to turn it off and does save some electric, roughly a computer uses about as much electic as a 75w light bulb and thats pretty minimal.

I also believe it don't hurt at all to leave it on if you don't mind using the minimal electricity. I do cancer research with my computers so they run 24/7 with the occasional shut down for maintanance. Two of these manchines, older socket A Amd have been running like this for about 4 years with no parts replaced and no reinstalls of the operating system and one of them is running windows ME of all things.


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## crazijoe (Oct 19, 2004)

Should hurt the computer at all. I leave my computers, at home, on 24hrs. All the computers we have at work are on 24hrs also.


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

just happened again, but had abunch of programs running. should i go ahead and buy a 600W power supply, or is this proof the problem is no longer with the PSU?


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi again,

Grrrrr this is a problem ain't it, at this point I don't think it has any thing to do with how many programs were running.

Seeing as you have put a new psu in it we sorta got to start over to see how this psu is doing so could you bare with me and,,,,,,,,,

List the specs of the new psu.
List the temps and voltages again, I would prefer these from within bios when the computer has been idleing in bios for 15 minutes.

When it "happened again" was it the same as before, I don't mean to be a pain but explain exactly what happened again just in case some thing changed


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

id had the new PSU for over a week with no problems at all, left it on for over 48 hours and no problems, so whatever the case, it is happening a lot more infrequently than before. i thought the problem was fixed until this thing happened. i will get the voltage and temperature specs in a bit when i log off the computer


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

second time, just happened again

it is definitely much less often than after I switched in the new PSU, if that tells something

my bios info:

CPU VCORE.........1.34V
NB/SB VOLT........1.52V
+3.3..................3.29V
+5.0..................4.99V
+12.0...............12.16V
5V(SB)...............4.91V
Volt Battery........3.04V


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Your voltages look good, your running speed fan so report your temps,

Report them at idle and while playing a game


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

ok, just happened once last night, and once again tonight. it hadn't happened at all before then, which was about a month, but this is the most frequent it has happened, and if it is starting to become more frequent, i can't just live with it. any ideas ? buy a new power supply or anything ? return some parts ?


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Whats the brand and model number of the psu thats now in the machine.

Its been a month so list the voltages and temps again, if this is a generic psu sometimes they can degrade rather quickly


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

Aspire ATX-AS500W

VCORE1: 1.34V
VCORE2: 1.52V
+3.3V: 3.3V
+5V: 5V
+12V: 12.22V
-12V: 2.29V
-5V: 1.18V
+5V: 4.92V
VBAT: 3.04V


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

There within the normal range, let me review this thread and post back its been awhile


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

The aspire psu ain't the greatest but it is supplying the proper voltages atleast at idle, I really hate to tell you to purchsae another/better psu when I just ain't sure.

Lets try this to see if it turns up a bsod,,,,,,,

Turn on BSODs in your computer properties. That way you can have some idea as to what's causing Windows to die, if it isn't a hardware issue.

This can be done by right clicking "my computer"->properties->Advanced->Startup and Recovery Settings
Uncheck the "Automatically restart checkbox.

If you get the BSOD, post the error and DLL that is causing it.


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

i'm sure it has to be a hardware issue; it only started when my hardware got replaced. also it just powers off, not shuts down, so i think that rules out a lot of software issues. it never restarts when it powers off, and the box was already unchecked.


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

when there is no error message it usually indicates power or heat
can you restart it straight away and does it run at full speed or is it sluggish
you still have not posted your tempreture readings


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Go into your bios and check what the cpu temp shut down is set at, then check what your cpu temp is and report back what they are


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## Done_Fishin (Oct 10, 2006)

empyreanrrv said:


> I have speedfan running now:
> 
> Vcore1: 1.34V
> Vcore2: 1.52V
> ...





empyreanrrv said:


> Aspire ATX-AS500W
> 
> VCORE1: 1.34V
> VCORE2: 1.52V
> ...




Sorry for my late intrusion but twice he has shown his supply figures and TWICE he has shown the -12V as being barely alive .. there is something wrong here .. once might have been a spelling mistake ... 
because I understand that the latset PSU's don't use -5V anymore I am not so concerned about that .. but check the 3rd pin from the right on the edge of the 20 pin power connector with the clip towards you .. if there is no (white) wire connected and the pin is missing , no problem! The measured voltage is probably due to feedback from other supply rails because it is not being used.

If there is a wire connected then you need to find out why you have a Positive Voltage on a Negative Supply rail. That is neither healthy nor normal.

check your mobo for swollen & or leaking capacitors .. 

remove all cards except the Graphics card and see if the voltage comes back up to -12Volts. Try checking with a Voltmeter and see if the readings are correct. Make suer the powewr connector has been pushed all the way home

If you have a fault on your motherboard, which is eating power, and you give it a better (stronger) power supply then it'll just take longer to overheat due to current overload.


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## Done_Fishin (Oct 10, 2006)

just had a thought ..hope it doesn't turn out that the -12V supply is also redundant ... then it could be just feedback again from the other positive supply rails ..


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

i couldn't see any leaking capacitors, and there did not seem to be any white when I checked my 20-pin cable.


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## Done_Fishin (Oct 10, 2006)

According to this page

Aspire ATX-AS500W Power Supply

Power Output
DC__Output 3.3V 5V 12V * -5V* * -12V * +5Vsb 
Current Out 28A 30A 34A * 0.3A* * 0.8A *2.0A


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

have a lot at this list & then you will know what they keep giving you!!


*QUOTED* 

Some of these PSU's are dangerous to your system, some are just sub-standard, 
however NONE can be recommended, for high performance or over-clocked systems.

Achieve
Aerocool
Allied
Apex
Arrow,
Aspire > Dangerous! They don't even pretend to meet the ATX/AMD/Intel specs!
Austin
Codegen
Coolmax
Demon
Deer
Duro
Dynapower
Eagle
EagleTech
Foxconn
Foxlink
Hercules
InWin (except FSP models)
JustPC
Key Mouse
Kingwin
L&C
Logic
Linkworld
Macron Power
MGE
Mustang
Okia
Power-Man (except FSP models)
Powmax
Power-Up
Powerstar
QMax
Qtec
q-tec
Raidmax (except Topower/Tagan models, not sold with cases)
Real PC Power
Rhycon
Robanton
Rosewill
Skyhawk
Thermaltake (except the Thermaltake W0057 PurePower 500W, ToughPower 750)
TMP-ANS
Tsunami
Turbo
Turbolink
Ultra (except X2 & X-Finity)
US-Can
Viomax

Some of these PSU's are dangerous to your system, some are just sub-standard, 
however NONE can be recommended, for high performance or over-clocked systems.


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

> Sorry for my late intrusion but twice he has shown his supply figures and TWICE he has shown the -12V as being barely alive .. there is something wrong here .. once might have been a spelling mistake


1) -12V as well as -5V are seldome used in modern computers and maybe there is no load on this rail thats why the low reading

2) speedfan can report wrong temps and voltages and when it does they are way off.

3) Speedfan reported the same low -12v for two different psu's.

These are the reasons I decided not to pursue this and look into other things.

empyreanrrv, could you give us the temps we requested


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

ok sorry about that doby...
my current shutdown temp is disabled
my CPU temp from my bios in idle was 40C


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Thats a ok temp and should not shutdown the computer so I think that pretty much eliminates that.

I really hate to tell you to try another psu because I don't think that is it but it could be and with what you describe it does sound like a flaky power supply but I have a hard time believing you could have two bad ones in a row.

If you decide to go this route please read this
http://www.techsupportforum.com//hardware-support/motherboards-bios-cpu//107466-power-supply-information-selection.html

If this were mine I would take it apart, remove it from the case and lay the motherboard on a piece of card board. Then install only the hard drive and video card and run it like this. This is called running the computer on a test bed, it eliminates the possibility of shorts between the board and the case and also eliminates any other add in cards or other things attached to the computer.

If the shutdown then conntinued I would the replace the psu, if it did not you could then add cards and drives one at a time.

I know this seems extreme but to me it is not, I don't know what else it could be besides a bad motherboard and if it does it on a test bed with a quality psu connected then it would almost have to be the motherboard


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

if the PSU were not strong enough, could there be a possibility the computer is not getting enough power and it is powering off because of that ? I'm willing to get a new PSU if that might solve it, but I don't know much about it.

like i said, after switching the PSU, it happened much less often. it used to happen a few times a day with the old one, and then after switching, it went a month without powering off once. could it be possible that becuase of the motherboard i previously had, the relationship between that one and the power supply was good, so that it never shut off, but the relationship with the old PSU and new motherboard was bad, so it kept shutting off? then, after I replaced the PSU, the relationship got a little better, so it didn't shut off as much? if this is true, then all i would need is a quality PSU that has a good relation with the motherboard for it not to power off anymore. or am i missing something?


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

The psu is strong enough to run the system and in my oppinion does show the proper voltages to keep the system stable but the problem is if the psu is "Flaky" it could drop one of these voltage rails at any given time resulting in the shutdown. This is impossible to test for and does happen

For some reason I don't think this is the case and I could be wrong but because I am not sure is why I would tear it down and run it on a test bed to try and eliminate as much as possible before I spent my hard earned money on something that might not fix it


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

I just read your edit and your line of thinking is very possible (the flaky thing I spoke of) if you have the extra cash it would not hurt to try and just maybe fix it but you could also spend the money and the problem continues.

If you did purchase a quality psu that would eliminate that and you could always use the aspire in another system if it turns out not to be the problem


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

good idea... thank you.

i know there is a list of PSUs to get, but i am very inexperienced. could you possible recommend any brand or model names that I would be able to find in a store or online, that would definitely eliminate the PSU as a potential source of the problem? thanks.


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

ENERMAX Whisper II EG565P-VE FMA(24P) 535W Power Supply - Retail at Newegg.com

That one is good and will run your system.

FSP Group (Fortron Source) FX600-GLN ATX12V/ EPS12V 600W Quad. SLi Power Supply - Retail at Newegg.com

This one great and what I would use.

OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI 600W Power Supply - Retail at Newegg.com

This one just about as good as the fortron and a bit cheaper


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

great, thank you very much.


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## Doby (Jan 17, 2006)

Your welcome keep us updated and good luck!


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

could it possibly be that something is not connected to the motherboard ? it happened again, and at this rate it seems like it is a little more frequent.


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## empyreanrrv (Aug 21, 2006)

something new !

while playing a game, the game screen kept freezing (understandably could have been the game), but after freezing one time, the computer restarted itself as if I hit the restart button. no idea what this could mean, or if it had something to do with the game, but just thought id let you guys know. maybe it fits in somewhere. thanks


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