# Air Duct Disconnected



## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

So I spent most of the day trying to replace an old bathroom fan with my dad today. When we finally managed to remove the old fan, which we thought was the culprit, we realized that the reason the fan was not pulling was not because the fan wasn't good, but because the air duct had been disconnected about 10 feet down into the ceiling, from the fan's installation point.

We've patched up the ceiling temporary so no dust comes into the washroom while we figure out how to fix this. All we've come up with so far is that we need to cut a hole in the ceiling above the point of disconnection and then reconnect the air duct , then resume our work. But the problem is that this is the bathroom in the master bedroom and the point of disconnection is right above the center of the bedroom, more or less.

I took some pictures with my phone (stuck my head into the ceiling at the fan's installtion point) so you guys can see the misery we're up against. Damn contractors in the 70s used duct tape instead of aluminum duct tape so every year we have a new duct that comes undone. :facepalm:

N.B.: It's the duct on the far left. After that bend, it goes straight down and comes out here (last two photos) in the basement, which just so happens to be open because the neighboring duct had problems recently also.

How would you guys tackle this?


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

My advice is to run all new duct work for the bathroom vents. At least this way you don't have to go up in there every year and use duct tape to fix/patch the crap out of it. Here in our state it's code to use semi-rigid aluminum flex duct for bathroom/dryer vents. 

ElectricalÂ*andÂ*Ventilation > ApplianceÂ*Outlets,Â*CordsÂ*andÂ*Accessories - Heavy-duty Aluminum Dryer Duct 4"x8ft

Check your local home builders store....Lowe's/Home-depot or what ever is in your area. They do make it in 15', 25' and 50' lengths.

Tip: when taking down sheet rock, use a utility knife and cut the seems in the corners and then find stud/truss to fit your area and cut on that. This way is makes patching that area much easier.


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Not sure of question here. But a couple of sheet metal screws would do the trick, to hold them together. All my pipes have them.

BG


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

Basementgeek said:


> Not sure of question here. But a couple of sheet metal screws would do the trick, to hold them together. All my pipes have them.
> 
> BG



Good point....a few self tapping sheet metal screws, some actual duct tape...the silver stuff to seal up the joints....job done.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Bassfisher, running all new ducts is a hell of a job and a lot of walls would need to be taken down.

Can you re explain ur tip differently?

Bg, my question was asking if you could suggest a smarter way to do the job.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

And the self taping sheet metal screws arent a problem to use, heck ill even put the aluminium foil tape around that after to e aure.. The problem is gaining access.. Its a mess of a job


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## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

From the looks of it. Seems like theirs enough room to crawl to the busted part


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Lmao! crawl? no way.. firstly, I can't fit through the fan cutout and I'm skinny. Secondly, it's just drywall.. it won't support a person's body weight. 

Unless anyone can suggest a more efficient way to fit that disconnect, at this point, a cutout right under it in the master bedroom seems like the only option.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Crawling in would have been my suggestion as well. If it's 6 inch pipe, looks to be about 18+ inches of clearance, I've squeezed into tighter areas. Use a couple strips of 1/2 inch plywood to slide in on so you don't have to snake over the ceiling joists.

What is the floor like above it? If carpeted, pull back the carpet, cut out the flooring repair duct then reinstall the cut-out and stretch the carpet back into place. If it's a finished floor, hardwood or tile, then the only options are to squeeze in or cut the ceiling.


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## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

well was only giving you a suggestion. if it was me I would open up the space in cealing where you took picture and put down some wood to crawl on and secure the pipe.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Squeezing into the ceiling just wouldnt be possible. And above the room is my tenants living room which is finished floor.

Were just gonna cut a hole in drywall and do the best to replace the whole length if that pipe


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## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

Ok good luck


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Thanks oscer, everyone as well. Will update thread with progress eventually


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

9 hours later and the new fan is installed. Just need to finish the plaster work before I can put the cover.


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## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

good job


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Thanks oscer. 

It was nightmare because there was limited room to work with in the ceiling (because of the joists) but also because it's a tiny washroom. I'm glad it's done.


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

What did you use to apply the drywall mud with ? A broom or a mop?

BG


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Lmao its a horrible job i know. My dad did it. We started using cgc drywall compund then ran out so i added some older plaster of paris to the mixture with water but it dried too fast. Then we added some meshed tape but he messed it up so he peeled it off and thats what ur looking at lmao its so bad of a plaster job i know. But no we have a 3" trowel. Thats all i had.

we were both so fed up and discouraged at the end of the day though...:banghead: nobody gave a :4-toilet: lol

thats why I say you should aways stop if you're tired or the whole job is comprimised.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

and also, for some reason, the gyproc we replaced was much more "in" than the rest of the room, so there was an indentation. and were sure the gyproc was the same depth, its just that when we screwed the patch to the wood, it pulled it way closer to the top than the rest of the washrooms drywall


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Basementgeek said:


> What did you use to apply the drywall mud with ? A broom or a mop?
> 
> BG


:rofl:

The plaster of paris is a definite no-no......:nonono:. It can be used but you have to move fast and is only used when time is a factor.

The mesh tape goes on first and is for 'setting' type compounds......working times vary from 20-270 minutes. Anything premixed is not recommended for 'screen tape'. 

You _will_ need more than a 3" knife unless you are only patching nail/screw holes......or, running inside corners. I use a hawk and trowel for outside corners or 'flat work'......(joints and large patches).


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

You need to get a 6 inch joint knife and a 12 inch mud pan. That is the common drywall tools. Both will cost about $10.00 each USD. Mine are about 40 years old.

Remember drywall does come in different thicknesses. Most common here in the states is 1/2 inch, but there is also 3/8 and 5/8 inch.

BG


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Is the mud pan necessary if I have an old hawk?


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

If your drywall broom won't fit in a mudpan, use the old hawk. :grin:

Seriously, pans are much easier for part time drywallers to use.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Ok but i was just planning to buy a bucket of cgc joint compound and use the bucket itself as the pan, scooping as much as i need from it jn increments..,


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

You will contaminate that bucket with little bits of hardened material, which will leave lines in your mud. 

A pan will also be the vessel to add a little bit of water to the mud for your finish coat.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Ah true. So I'm making a list:

6" mud trowel
Drywall pan

Anything else?


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Vegassparky brings up a good point I think most people don't do. Once you put mud in your pan, don't put any left over mud back in the bucket.

To maintain a opened bucket of mud requires work too.

Buy a metal mud pan, not a plastic one. You want a 6 inch joint knife, not a trowel, not a scraper. Joint knives are thinner metal, you need that little flex.

While your buying drywall things, get a roll of seam tape (paper) and a package of sanding screen.

BG


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

OK, I will buy the metal pan and the joint knife.

I have seam tape (although I don't think you were asking me to buy it for this job, since I don't have any joints to seam from that photo). Lastly, I read that when comparing the sand paper and the sanding screen, the latter is a bit more difficult to use:



> The sanding screens are to be used with a special sanding block that is vacuum assisted. Hyde and Fibratape make these for about 15 bucks. You use your shop vac on these.<p>If your not using a vacuum, then the paper is what you want to use. They are less of a problem. The screens require a careful touch. I use only the screens starting with 60 grit to 220 w/vacuum.


Source: Sanding screen versus sand paper? - DoItYourself.com Community Forums

I have several different grades of sandpaper lying around in the garage, but some are in the form of rolls while others are just flat sheets of sand paper. I don't know how to use them to sand a drywall job since I've never had and therefore used a sanding block.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

I'd never use 60grit for any drywall finishing. I use screens on poles for larger areas. For smaller areas I just use a sanding sponge. Typically I'll buy 120grit for either. After the first couple of uses they are less aggressive( a little worn), and work perfectly to feather out the finish coat. I think we've all mentioned practice.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Very incorrect info on the sanding screen........does not have to be vacuum assisted. For your purpose/use and simple hand sander will do.









Pole sander is for larger jobs where a ladder would be a pita. As for grit.....I've rarely seen a pro use less than 220. When forced to do so, they load the sander and do a little concrete sanding before using on any drywall. 

Practice and technique are what makes the job. You have to learn how to hold the tool you are using.....trowel and broadknife are very much different in technique. You do not wrap your entire hand around a broadknife handle......it is not a hammer or screwdriver. Depending on what you are doing, you will have 1 or 2 fingers on the back of the blade to create even pressure.


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

I guess SABL is the drywall expert now.

Use sanding screen, sandpaper, sanding sponge. What ever you got. I generally use the screen. Ideally after much practice you should get to the point that very, very little sanding is required.

BG


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Ok i found an old 6" joint knife and bought the 12" metal mudpan. I also got a big bucket of cgc joint compound that was on sale. I guess ill wait and see how the job turns out before going back for the hand sander


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Good luck.......:thumb: See how the 6" does......bigger would be better. Don't put on more than you care to sand......get it on and walk away.....the more you work the mud the worse it gets.

If the 6" isn't in good shape you may have a little trouble. The edge should be square and not sharp like a knife. Pros are constantly squaring the edges of all their tools.....including trowels.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Ok I'll keep you posted.


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

6 inch is a good knife to start with.

BG


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Why is bigger better when starting?

My dad gave me grief for spending on a mud pan lol he say's you don't need to spend your money on that you could have just made one from scrap...


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

I myself would not listen to your Dad on maintenance tips.

Yes, you could make your own I guess.

BG


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Hes just very cheap lol he knows more abt maintenance than i do thats for sure.. But hes been asking me where ive learned all this stuff bc you guys have taught me things he doesnt know.. Like terminology for tools and the real way to do things


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

No offense towards your Dad, at least you have one involved in your life. I can say I never did.

I sure your Dad knows a lot, but the fit/finish is lacking. Do things the correct way, neatness does count some. Nothing like doing something over again.
i.e. do a bad job on drywall and you hope painting will make it look better. Try to sand "mud" that has been painted. We have all done it.

Yes, the correct tools are important. Using the correct tool can make the job better/quicker/look better. Don't buy a mud pan to fix a nail pop once in awhile.

BG


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

> Don't buy a mud pan to fix a nail pop once in awhile.


What do you mean by this?


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Have you tried out your new drywall tools yet?


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Not yet, my dad insists that I wait for him to do this bathroom fan because the joint is a bit more difficult aince I have no exp.. I went to buy a 10" square trowel though. All im missing is something to samd and i have all my drywal equipment. And btw, i tried the mudpan when working with my dad and i must say that i find it much easier
To use a hawk. Does this mean im ahead of the game? Haha


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

To use a hawk means your a little more serious about DW work.....and are working larger patches or bigger jobs such as whole rooms. I've never owned a broadknife larger than 5"......if I can't do it with a 5" I'm using a hawk and trowel. 

Hint: Hawk is much easier to clean than a mud pan....:grin:

I see you have a 10" straight trowel.....that will help. Just use the 6" broadknife to fill the patch in and smooth it with the trowel. You can scrape the excess mud into the pan......getting the mud on the trowel, from the pan, can be a little tricky. Leveling out deep depressions can be done with a 'rod' after filling it in......I've seen many pros use ceiling grid for a 'rod' just to get a decent base to work with. A painter's edge guide can be used and may have more uses around the house......I've used one many times when applying wall coverings or cutting in paint around a ceiling. Never had to use one for DW work.....so far.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

The biggest problem I have with using a hawk is how to keep the mud from sliding off when I set it down to eat lunch. LOL

Seriously, whatever works for you is what's best. There's no getting ahead in this game. If your work looks good the first time, you win. If it doesn't, keep playing.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

what the diff between a trowel and broadknife?


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Trowel...











Broadknife...


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Ah damn, i have some trowels.. Does that mean buying a 10" broadknife was a waste?


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Surely not. Once you get into doing these things, you'll find your preferred method. Like SABL mentioned, two different guys can do a job two different ways. 

Trowels and knives utilize two different sets of motions to accomplish the same task. As a DIYer, the reason I like knifes and pans is because they are the most versatile for me. I like being able to put my knife in the pan, and set it all down if I need both hands free for something. I also like a pan for mixing all purpose compound. A little water, chop it up, and I'm ready to top coat. These tools are also what I'm used to using.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

The only adv i see the pan having over the hawke is being able to add water; the putting it down straight to eat problem is pretty trivial

I find its harder to hold the mudpan since it will weigh more.. The hawk concentrates the mud in the middle
So its easier on your arm (better weight distribution)


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Or maybe its bc i got a big 10" Mudpan


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

I want to see you tape holding a hawk.

BG


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

A little water can be added to premixed mud on a hawk......just can't add too much water. Make a well in the center of the mud and sprinkle some water in......work the mud with the trowel. Takes practice, though. Dry mix I prefer a pan......:laugh:. 

I tended hod for my brother-in-law one summer.....that means shoveling the cement to the guys doing the stucco work (and doing the mixing). If I felt he was being a jerk I'd put the mud off center of his hawk......:rofl:. 

Whether you are using a trowel or broadknife you will make 3 passes with the tool after filling in the patch/joint. Pressure 1 side.....pressure other side......last pass with even pressure. Feather the sides and even out the center. Wish I had known that on my first house......I was using even pressure when trying to work the mud smooth. The job looked good when done but took more work than was needed......2nd house went much easier after watching the pros and picking up their techniques.

Never had any trouble setting the hawk down........I don't load it with mud before eating.......:grin:.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Basementgeek said:


> I want to see you tape holding a hawk.
> 
> BG


It's not that hard to do, you have to put the hawk down. But......taping and spotting nails is pan work. I still have my tape/pan holder that hooks over my belt......handy thing to have......:thumb:

BTW......I know a 1 handed spackler. That's a sight to see!!


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

All he wants to do is patch drywall. Use the pan. All he needs is a 6inch joint knife and a pan to do that job.

If he was going to spend all kinds of money, I would think he would pay have it done.

BG


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

That metal housing is ~9" from what I guess.....I happen to have one nearby. Total patch width looks to be 11"+.......6" knife will work wonders. 

Cost of tools vs a contractor will be rather huge......experience will be priceless.


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## Gadsden (Mar 10, 2012)

I use a hawk and a 6" and 10" knife for almost any drywall repair. The hawk is so much easier to use and clean...imo.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

A hawk is far too easy to clean compared to a mudpan........no inside corners. 

If the patch warrants using a trowel, I use a hawk and keep a broadknife in my back pocket to spot nails/screws and smaller stuff. As Gadsden says, a broadknife works fine with a hawk.

A drywall trowel comes in handy for larger patches.......it has a slight curve that helps cover any tape that is used. Once the tape is covered you use a cement trowel (straight) or larger broadknife to widen the joint for better blending. I only use a drywall trowel on patches or butt-joints......tape joints are cement trowel only. I have a nice stainless one that is used for synthetic stucco......:thumb:


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