# career help!!



## esoex (May 17, 2012)

hi everyone I joined this one recently anyways I just want to ask is tech support is a good option starting your career in Networking ? because I am a fresher and I am CEH but I am not getting any calls in security domain so will I able to switch in Network security after sometime? will this tech support exp. counted? what should I supposed to do for increasing my chances in getting security analyst kinda profile? I am kinda nervous ... so please do provide me the right thing!!! Thank you in advance.:thanx:


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

You're not going to get any calls for security jobs until you get some real-world IT experience. And to do that, you should absolutely get an entry-level tech support job. Gotta start at the bottom and work your way up one step at a time; you can't start from the middle or the top, which is where you're currently aiming.


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## esoex (May 17, 2012)

Thank you boson sir!! I am definitely going to climb the wall ..but again after tech support? will it be like system admin? I am desperate to get in security..though I know I will have to be patient and alert!!


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

usually it should go something like this.

Help desk > techsupport > exposure to networking > networking support > network admin > systems engineer > security.

Help desk may be scrubbed off as number one and techsupport put in its place if you have been lucky.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

greenbrucelee said:


> usually it should go something like this.
> 
> Help desk > techsupport > exposure to networking > networking support > network admin > systems engineer > security.
> 
> Help desk may be scrubbed off as number one and techsupport put in its place if you have been lucky.


mmm... I somewhat disagree. Networking typically comes after exposure to systems/servers. By networking, I don't mean "plugging wires into computers and switches"... I mean configuring routers, VPNs, firewalls, etc.

Typically, the IT career ladder goes like this:

entry-level (help desk, tech support, PC repair tech) > desktop administrator > systems/server admin > network admin

There's a little bit of overlap in each role, so that experience can help you advance to the next role.

Network admins take care of a lot of security responsibilities; from there, many decide to specialize in security.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

That's what I meant by exposure to networking.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

greenbrucelee said:


> That's what I meant by exposure to networking.


True, but since he's new to the industry, I didn't want him searching frantically for network admin jobs before the proper time and experience.  The way your post read, if I were new, I'd look for network support jobs after desktop support.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

I suppose I could have worded it better. My bad.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

greenbrucelee said:


> I suppose I could have worded it better. My bad.


No worries!  You know I appreciate you, GBL.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

lol yeah.

I am a bit tired at the mo, trying to get Unix to work with 7 and its being a PITA but we'll keep that out if here and not hijack the thread.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

greenbrucelee said:


> lol yeah.
> 
> I am a bit tired at the mo, trying to get Unix to work with 7 and its being a PITA but we'll keep that out if here and not hijack the thread.


You've come a long way, my brother!


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

BosonMichael said:


> You've come a long way, my brother!


A lot of it is down to you for pointing me the in the correct direction. Thanks.


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## esoex (May 17, 2012)

ohh it seems you both had a great time...:grin: well thanks to both of you!! but Boson and lee presently I am with tech support ok? and after that as you guided that I need to have some exposure stuff...It will be my skill set on which it will depend right? so do I need to do certifications along with it? and again I want to ask about CISSP does it requires 5 years of exp.? I am really sorry for so many questions guys but I really want to be doubt free in future..thats why please bare with me..


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

Yes it does.

Having high level certs without the proper experience will get you no where. Mike will be able to clear this up since he has recently become CISSP certified but I believe even if you were to pass the exam you would not gain the certification if you did not have the experience.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

Yep - before you are granted the CISSP title, you need 5 years of security-related IT experience (not just 5 years in IT, but 5 years doing things related to IT security). A degree can substitute for one year of experience, but you'd still need 4 more years. On top of that, you have to have another CISSP endorse you (or pay an extra $100 to have them do it).

EDIT: Even if you were to somehow get it without first having the experience, what good would it do? The certification doesn't automagically qualify you to be a security expert, know what I mean?  It is the experience that qualifies you; the certification simply _validates_ that experience.


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## esoex (May 17, 2012)

well thats quite frustrating but anyways what would you recommend me to increase my skill sets and chances? I mean which certs I should do after CEH? I am not CCNA still.. one of my friend suggested that I should try for abroad opportunity ( I am an Indian ) CHFI? or CISA? how much time will be good to spend with tech support?


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

CCNA is designed for someone who configures and supports cisco devices.

Certs are not designed for what you want to be they are designed to show an employer your current skill level.


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

I agree with what GBL said. 

I would recommend you pursue the A+, Network+, and Windows client certifications, if you do not already have them. I would also recommend holding off on putting the CEH on your resume/CV, as it can make some entry-level employers somewhat... nervous. The "hacker" title tends to do that with HR managers and IT managers who don't understand the certification.


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## esoex (May 17, 2012)

Thank you!!! hmm one more question.. desktop engineer or tech support?


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

esoex said:


> Thank you!!! hmm one more question.. desktop engineer or tech support?


In what way do you believe those jobs are different?


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## esoex (May 17, 2012)

In some way tech support is like L1 job and Desk Eng. is L0?


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

esoex said:


> In some way tech support is like L1 job and Desk Eng. is L0?


Not really. They're basically the same job with different titles. In truth, anything a tech does is considered "tech support". So don't get too caught up in what the job title is. Get an entry-level job doing some form of IT support (no matter what it is called) and move up from there.


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## PVOB1502 (May 30, 2012)

I would like to know what equipment/tools I would need to set up my own computer repair business. Also any information i can get with start up costs... what kind of financing I would need.
Thank you


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

You need your brain and, occasionally, a screwdriver. I can get you a good price on a screwdriver if you need one, but for the brain, you're on your own.


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## PVOB1502 (May 30, 2012)

LOL. Thanks BosonMichael. I apprecizte the help with the screwdriver. As far as the brain goes, maybe I will pay a visit to the local morgue and see if I can borrow or steal one that functions properly and can output some very intelligent answers.

Again thanks.... Now go get that screwdriver.lol

Paul


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

PVOB1502 said:


> LOL. Thanks BosonMichael. I apprecizte the help with the screwdriver. As far as the brain goes, maybe I will pay a visit to the local morgue and see if I can borrow or steal one that functions properly and can output some very intelligent answers.
> 
> Again thanks.... Now go get that screwdriver.lol
> 
> Paul




In all seriousness, that's really all you need to start your own computer repair business. 

Sure, you can get all manner of gizmos and cables... though you really don't need to pick those up until you need them. I carry a few spare UTP cables in my car, but you don't HAVE to have them. 

Business cards are fine, but again, they're not absolutely necessary. It all depends on how you want to market yourself. Some people advertise. Some people knock on doors. Some people rely simply on word-of-mouth.


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## scalh001 (Dec 17, 2011)

And in Michael's case, some people add a hundred certifications to one's repertoire to create a rather distinguished signature line.lol


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

scalh001 said:


> And in Michael's case, some people add a hundred certifications to one's repertoire to create a rather distinguished signature line.lol


That's a necessary hazard of my job. Would you trust someone to create training materials for a certification they hadn't achieved?


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## PVOB1502 (May 30, 2012)

BosonMichael said:


> In all seriousness, that's really all you need to start your own computer repair business.
> 
> Sure, you can get all manner of gizmos and cables... though you really don't need to pick those up until you need them. I carry a few spare UTP cables in my car, but you don't HAVE to have them.
> 
> Business cards are fine, but again, they're not absolutely necessary. It all depends on how you want to market yourself. Some people advertise. Some people knock on doors. Some people rely simply on word-of-mouth.


:facepalm: Thanks Michael, It is very helpful advice. I will take another look at how I will be marketing the business and also pay heed to what you said about only getting the required equipment/tools only when it is needed.

Again thanks for your kind response.

Paul


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## scalh001 (Dec 17, 2011)

BosonMichael said:


> That's a necessary hazard of my job. Would you trust someone to create training materials for a certification they hadn't achieved?


You're right, good job! I give you an A+...ohh wait, well, you already have that.lol:smile:


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## esoex (May 17, 2012)

Hi Boson well I need to clear some more doubts now...well I joined as Network Security Engineer L1 so it will be monitoring only but the problem is I am on different pay role so I dont want it I want to convert it to where I am actually working please tell me what should I do to convert? Is it a good profile than L1 tech support? then what will be chances to upgrade my profile? what will be next to it? for which I should try next to fetch some more bucks? Thank you in advance..


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

esoex said:


> Hi Boson well I need to clear some more doubts now...well I joined as Network Security Engineer L1 so it will be monitoring only but the problem is I am on different pay role so I dont want it I want to convert it to where I am actually working please tell me what should I do to convert? Is it a good profile than L1 tech support? then what will be chances to upgrade my profile? what will be next to it? for which I should try next to fetch some more bucks? Thank you in advance..


I don't understand "pay role" or "profile". 

If you want to make more money, gain experience in the job you are doing, then apply for the next level position. This isn't something you're going to be able to do in the span of a few weeks or a few months... experience comes over _time_.

You say that you want to "convert your pay role" where you are actually working. How is monitoring not working? If by "working", you really mean, "laying your hands on the gear to configure it", I'm going to be bluntly honest with you: that's unlikely to happen. Companies simply are NOT going to entrust someone without experience to mess with their network devices. You can absolutely make a bad problem worse by not knowing what you're doing. 

You need to be patient and use this job role to understand what you're monitoring, what you're looking for while you're monitoring, and what solutions are implemented in certain situations. That is what builds experience.


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## esoex (May 17, 2012)

Hey BM is Post graduation necessary in this field? and can you put some explanation about CISA cert? I mean after Sec. Monitoring job will it be limited to just auditing?


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## BosonMichael (Nov 1, 2011)

esoex said:


> Hey BM is Post graduation necessary in this field? and can you put some explanation about CISA cert? I mean after Sec. Monitoring job will it be limited to just auditing?


I guess it depends on what you want to do. In general, no, it's not necessary.

I don't know anyone who has the CISA certification. However, you'd need experience before pursuing it. According to ISACA:



> A minimum of 5 years of professional information systems auditing, control or security work experience (as described in the CISA job practice areas) is required for certification. Substitutions and waivers of such experience, to a maximum of 3 years, may be obtained as follows:
> 
> A maximum of 1 year of information systems experience OR 1 year of non-IS auditing experience can be substituted for 1 year of experience.
> 60 to 120 completed university semester credit hours (the equivalent of an 2-year or 4-year degree) not limited by the 10-year preceding restriction, can be substituted for 1 or 2 years, respectively, of experience.
> ...


Please understand, certification isn't a magic key that grants you access to upper-level jobs, such as IT security auditing. Certification is designed to show employers what you already have experience doing (with the obvious exception of entry-level certifications, such as A+ and Network+).


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