# unknown overheating



## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

so i had a tech in becuase my computer has been overheating. ANYTHING more demanding than a web browser would run the temp up to 98C. it also did an emergency shut down/crash thing to avoid melting itself at least 3 times. soooo tech comes in, stays for 10 hours trying a bunch of things. and the solution they give me after all of that? "put it in poewr saver mode to force a throttle." while this DOES work, it's a crappy band aid and i feel extremely cheated. what do you guys suggest?


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

98°C on what component?


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

I agree with Corday - we need more information. Sadly, you told us nothing about this computer. For example, we don't even know if this is a laptop or a PC (desktop/tower) computer. 

Regardless, 98°C would concern me too - especially if the CPU. You say anything more demanding than using the browser drives up the heat. What are your temps at idle? If you have changed any of the clock speeds or voltages (overclocking) reset everything back to the defaults. 

Assuming your ambient (room) temperatures would be considered "normal" "creature comfort" temperatures (comfortable for us humans and our pets) then for sure, you are correct that using power saver mode is a band-aid patch and is NOT a fix. I would feel ripped-off too - especially if charged good money. 

Excessive heat can be caused by many things. These include a build up of heat-trapping dust blanketing the inside the case, clogging the heat sink fins, and blocking the cooling vents. Faulty case and/or CPU fans is a common cause too. 

I typically discourage (even the suggestion of) replacing the TIM (thermal interface material) because, while not a hard task for those with the knowledge and dexterity, it is very easy to do it wrong or worse, cause damage to the CPU, socket or surrounding components. There is not a single TIM maker, cooler maker, processor maker, motherboard or computer maker who recommends TIM be replaced just because it is X number of years old. Not one!

So contrary to what some believe, TIM can easily last 5, 10, 15 years or longer AS LONG AS the cured bond between the device and the heatsink is not broken. And that bond would not break except if the computer is mishandled or, ironically, if the cooler is twisted too hard to see if lose. Even if the TIM dries out the solids remaining are still doing their job (preventing insulating air from getting into the microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces). While it is true, a fresh application of new TIM may provide a few degrees of additional cooling, the main point is if the device "needs" those few degrees to prevent crossing over thermal protection thresholds, the temps are too high from the start and more critical issues need to be addressed first - like case cooling. 

So - finally getting to my point - if your case interior, vents, and heatsinks are clean of heat trapping dust and your fans are spinning properly, then your processor's heatsink fan assembly may have been knocked loose, breaking the cured bond between them. In that event, then the old TIM needs to be completely removed and a fresh, thin but complete, new layer of TIM applied.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

Wholeheartedly agree with Bill. Hear are three pics of dirty PCs we have seen over the years:


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

well the PC itself is clean. and it's only the CPU that is heating up. the GPU is staying low. even when at 15 percent utilization it heats up to that high unless it's on low performance mode.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

Bill_Bright said:


> I agree with Corday - we need more information. Sadly, you told us nothing about this computer. For example, we don't even know if this is a laptop or a PC (desktop/tower) computer.
> 
> Regardless, 98°C would concern me too - especially if the CPU. You say anything more demanding than using the browser drives up the heat. What are your temps at idle? If you have changed any of the clock speeds or voltages (overclocking) reset everything back to the defaults.
> 
> ...


it idles at around 50C for both. when under load the GPU heats up to 65ish. 
i haven't changed any settings and the fans are clean. as is everything else. 
only modifications i've had made was adding two SSD's so i could take what i wanted off of them. 
the PC in question ---> Are you a human?


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

65°C for the GPU is nothing to worry about. 

Then assuming you have good air flow through the case, and assuming the CPU fan is spinning up, and last, assuming the CPU temps used to be fine, then one possibility is the cured bond of the TIM between the CPU and its heatsink some how broke, allowing insulating air to get inside. So if me, I would shutdown, unplug from the wall and remove the heatsink. Then, using isopropyl alcohol and a cotton ball or pad, thoroughly clean off the old TIM. Then apply a small dab (about the size of a grain of rice) of fresh, new TIM and spread it evenly over the die. I snip off the end of a plastic shaft Q-Tip (cotton swap), then bend 1/2 inch of the cut end over to make a little hockey stick applicator. Then I spread the TIM across the die with the applicator, like spreading icing on a cake - as thin as possible, but complete coverage. Then I remount the heatsink and see what happens.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

Bill_Bright said:


> 65°C for the GPU is nothing to worry about.
> 
> Then assuming you have good air flow through the case, and assuming the CPU fan is spinning up, and last, assuming the CPU temps used to be fine, then one possibility is the cured bond of the TIM between the CPU and its heatsink some how broke, allowing insulating air to get inside. So if me, I would shutdown, unplug from the wall and remove the heatsink. Then, using isopropyl alcohol and a cotton ball or pad, thoroughly clean off the old TIM. Then apply a small dab (about the size of a grain of rice) of fresh, new TIM and spread it evenly over the die. I snip off the end of a plastic shaft Q-Tip (cotton swap), then bend 1/2 inch of the cut end over to make a little hockey stick applicator. Then I spread the TIM across the die with the applicator, like spreading icing on a cake - as thin as possible, but complete coverage. Then I remount the heatsink and see what happens.


the first tech already did exactly this.
update: computer has now crashed twice within the last 10 minutes... while on power saving mode.... and all i had open was 2 internet tabs. me thinks it's getting worse.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

Does it crash while simply setting at a BIOS menu?

Does it crash when you temporarily boot and run a live linux distro like Mint. Running a live distro will not touch your SSD/HDD as the OS runs from the USB and RAM. (Use USB 3+ if avalable).

Download something like the Mint iso file, then right-click it and select Mount. Copy the files to a USB flash drive formatted as FAT32. When it's done open "This PC", right-click the virtual DVD and select Eject. 

Boot the computer from the Mint flash drive you just created, tap the key to get your boot menu and select the USB flash drive. When Mint loads, open Firefox and surf the 'net, watch videos on the 'net, test it out, etc. 

Does it ever crash now?

Note: Do NOT click the "Install" icon on the Mint desktop. You do not want to install Mint on your computer


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

SpywareDr said:


> Does it crash while simply setting at a BIOS menu?
> 
> Does it crash when you temporarily boot and run a live linux distro like Mint. Running a live distro will not touch your SSD/HDD as the OS runs from the USB and RAM. (Use USB 3+ if avalable).
> 
> ...


since i didn't like the first tech's answer, i hired a second. they reset the bios. also reset the entire computer..... i was hoping this would fix it, but it did not. so i doubt it's the bios.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

Does it ever crash while temporarily running Linux and exercising it hard?


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

SpywareDr said:


> Does it ever crash while temporarily running Linux and exercising it hard?


computer is windows 10. not sure why linux is important here. though... i could just be ignorant. and exercising it hard does cause crashes.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

We need to determine if the problem is your hardware or your software (Windows 10, etc.). If it is a hardware issue there is no need to tearing up Windows to try and fix it. Why? Because software cannot fix broken hardware.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

SpywareDr said:


> Does it crash while simply setting at a BIOS menu?
> 
> Does it crash when you temporarily boot and run a live linux distro like Mint. Running a live distro will not touch your SSD/HDD as the OS runs from the USB and RAM. (Use USB 3+ if avalable).
> 
> ...


what is mint?
where do i get it?
i did a google search but i'm pretty sure that it's not a budget planner.

edit: nvm. google search for "mint linux" worked.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

okay. i did all the things. i downloaded the mint iso. i downloaded the program to mount the mint iso and installed it. i ran it to install it. it was installed. then i booted the computer from that drive. aaaaaaaaaand everything looks the same. i'm guessing something went wrong?


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

If you have Linux on a bootable flash drive, _Boot _off of the USB Flash drive _*DO NOT INSTALL *_it. and choose to *TRY* Linux. This will run the Linux OS distro from the Flash Drive. 
If you still have the same problems, then it is a Hardware Issue, not Windows.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

spunk.funk said:


> If you have Linux on a bootable flash drive, _Boot _off of the USB Flash drive _*DO NOT INSTALL *_it. and choose to *TRY* Linux. This will run the Linux OS distro from the Flash Drive.
> If you still have the same problems, then it is a Hardware Issue, not Windows.


yeah. i followed the instructions on the mint website.

"Download Etcher, install it and run it. "
"click select image and select your iso file"
"click select drive and select your usb stick"
"click flash"


"

Insert your USB stick (or DVD) into the computer.
Restart the computer.
Before your computer boots your current operating system (Windows, Mac, Linux) you should see your BIOS loading screen. Check the screen or your computer’s documentation to know which key to press and instruct your computer to boot on USB (or DVD).
"

and i looked up how to boot with the bios open which was to press hold Shift while pressing clicking Restart.
a booting screen thing popped up. i selected the drive. pressed enter. screen turns black for like two minutes. and then it boots to what i normally see.
i'm thinking i did something wrong. note: i do not have a flash drive, but i do have an external backup drive.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

Get one (or more): https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=8gb+fl...prefix=8gb+flash+drive,aps,58&ref=sr_nr_p_6_3


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

You need a USB Flash Drive to burn the Linux ISO image to. You can get one at any store that sells electronics, Best Buy, Walmart, Target, CVS, Walgreens etc or online as stated above on Amazon, Ebay etc. This does not work with a USB HDD.


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## jdsmort (Jul 29, 2008)

SpywareDr said:


> Wholeheartedly agree with Bill. Hear are three pics of dirty PCs we have seen over the years:


Actually seen one where you could not even see the fan.. was turning underneath a wad... but not doing any cooling....

I will also add here, I had a false reading on my last M/B that said 95 on a particular sensor that actually meant nothing... this was related to the CPU set of temps.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

jdsmort said:


> Actually seen one where you could not even see the fan.. was turning underneath a wad... but not doing any cooling....


Yep, seen that one too. And they were smoker's ... with sticky nicotine everywhere.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

getting a flash drive on monday, then i'll test the linux thing.

and would a false reading cause the computer to overheat crash? if so, then that could be my problem, which i still would have no idea how to fix.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

Doubtful but, it could happen.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

okay so i put the put the mint thing on the flash drive by following the instructions on their website. and i booted off the drive. and it still defaulted to windows. clearly ii'm doing something super wrong.


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

What is the Make and Model # of your computer or Motherboard?
When you first boot your computer, you should see the Manufacturers Splash screen with it's Logo. You should also see some small writing on this screen that says *Press (key) to Enter Setup* (Bios) When you see the Splash screen start pressing that key, if it is a custom built PC, it is usually the *Del *key, but it may be *F2*. Once in *Setup* (Bios) go to the *Boot* tab. Disable* Secure Boot or Fast Boot*. UEFI Bios should be selected, if you can add *Legacy / CSM Boot *Enable that in addition. Linux requires Legacy boot. Now _Move_ the Flash drive to the First Boot Device. _Save and Exit_. If you burned the Linux USB correctly the computer should recognize it and boot from it. If not, at the Splash screen press the *F12* key continuously. You should see a Boot menu. Select the Flash Drive and it should Boot from it. If this does not happen, then you did not burn the Flash drive correctly, try Booting the Flash drive on another computer to confirm. If it fails on 2 computers then start over. Try using Rufus to burn the Mint ISO image.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

well the newegg specs page says that the chipset of the motherboard is "Intel z490" and it's name is "MSI ATX (PRO)


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

You mean this? MSI ATX (PRO) | Newegg.com

If so, which one?


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

SpywareDr said:


> You mean this? MSI ATX (PRO) | Newegg.com
> 
> If so, which one?


I assume so.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

I'm out.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

spunk.funk said:


> What is the Make and Model # of your computer or Motherboard?
> When you first boot your computer, you should see the Manufacturers Splash screen with it's Logo. You should also see some small writing on this screen that says *Press (key) to Enter Setup* (Bios) When you see the Splash screen start pressing that key, if it is a custom built PC, it is usually the *Del *key, but it may be *F2*. Once in *Setup* (Bios) go to the *Boot* tab. Disable* Secure Boot or Fast Boot*. UEFI Bios should be selected, if you can add *Legacy / CSM Boot *Enable that in addition. Linux requires Legacy boot. Now _Move_ the Flash drive to the First Boot Device. _Save and Exit_. If you burned the Linux USB correctly the computer should recognize it and boot from it. If not, at the Splash screen press the *F12* key continuously. You should see a Boot menu. Select the Flash Drive and it should Boot from it. If this does not happen, then you did not burn the Flash drive correctly, try Booting the Flash drive on another computer to confirm. If it fails on 2 computers then start over. Try using Rufus to burn the Mint ISO image.


so i downloaded rufus, and it doesn't detect any drives that it can put the iso file on.


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

The USB Flash Drive must be in the compute when you run Rufus. If you have it in, be sure the computer is recognizing it. Press the *Windows* key *+X *and choose Disk Management, if *Disk Managemen*t doesn't recognize it, try a different USB port, if it still won't recognize it, try the flash drive on another computer, if 2 or more computers don't recognize it, then you got a bad drive. Get a brand new, never used Flash drive from any of the retailers mentioned. Target, Walmart, Best Buy, Walgreens, CVS, Amazon, Ebay etc.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

spunk.funk said:


> The USB Flash Drive must be in the compute when you run Rufus. If you have it in, be sure the computer is recognizing it. Press the *Windows* key *+X *and choose Disk Management, if *Disk Managemen*t doesn't recognize it, try a different USB port, if it still won't recognize it, try the flash drive on another computer, if 2 or more computers don't recognize it, then you got a bad drive. Get a brand new, never used Flash drive from any of the retailers mentioned. Target, Walmart, Best Buy, Walgreens, CVS, Amazon, Ebay etc.


oh the computer sees that it's there. oh.... wait... i think the drive is broken. according to my screen, this drive has.... 388mb of space on it. 

this is what i bought. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001XURP8G?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

spunk.funk said:


> Press the *Windows* key *+X *and choose Disk Management


As stated, go to *Disk Management*, in the lower Pane you will see your drive and you can see what is going on with the drive. You may need to delete _all _partitions on the USB Flash drives here, until the drive is *Unallocated Space.* Then right click that space and choose to make a new *Simple Volume*, Format it FAT32 or NTFS and give it a drive letter, then you can proceed with *Rufus.*


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

spunk.funk said:


> As stated, go to *Disk Management*, in the lower Pane you will see your drive and you can see what is going on with the drive. You may need to delete _all _partitions on the USB Flash drives here, until the drive is *Unallocated Space.* Then right click that space and choose to make a new *Simple Volume*, Format it FAT32 or NTFS and give it a drive letter, then you can proceed with *Rufus.*


okay so i did all that. everything mounted properly. booted up mint. it booted properly... i assume. never seen linux before. but yeah got to the desktop and what not. but i'm not sure what you want me to do from there. so i shut it off pulled the flash drive (which it instructed me to do) and now i'm back here asking what to do next.


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Look back to the earlier part of this thread on why we suggested using Mint.

Run the computer using Mint Linux, surf the web, do what you normally would do, that does not use any Windows apps. If the computer is stable and doesn't crash after several hours, then the computer is not overheating and there is no hardware problem, there is an issue with Windows, and you will have to rethink this.
If it crashes shortly after using it, then this confirms that the computer is overheating, or has a hardware failure. You need to take it to a tech who is comfortable with removing the Heat Sync, cleaning the thermal paste off of the processor, and reapplying new Thermal Paste between the Heat Sync and the Processor. Maybe adding a couple more fans.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

spunk.funk said:


> Look back to the earlier part of this thread on why we suggested using Mint.
> 
> Run the computer using Mint Linux, surf the web, do what you normally would do that, does not use any Windows apps. If the computer is stable and doesn't crash after several hours, then the computer is not overheating and there is no hardware problem, there is an issue with Windows, and you will have to rethink this.
> If it crashes shortly after using it, then this confirms that the computer is overheating, or has a hardware failure. You need to take it to a tech who is comfortable with removing the Heat Sync, cleaning the thermal paste off of the processor, and reapplying new Thermal Paste between the Heat Sync and the Processor. Maybe adding a couple more fans.


well i normally play games. not sure which ones would even work. though i found a list of steam games that work. can i access my normal hard drive things while linux is booted?


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Yes, did you try before you posted?


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

okay so i just tried to stress the computer with complex game things. lots of moving parts and what not. all i was able to do was lag it to a frame by frame. however, i noticed there was plenty of lag without me even doing anything. like, before even downloading the game, things were lagging. soooo either linux automatically throttles itself, or my hardware isn't broken.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

well i'm bloody stumped. so i wanted to show a friend the overheating.... so i tried to induce overheating...... aaaaaaaaaaaand no overheating. since when do tech issues just resolve themselves?


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Quite often, it's the mystery and magic mojo of the wonderful world of computing.
At least Now you have learned how to troubleshoot hardware issues with your computer.


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## cookiesnmilk (Mar 30, 2009)

aaaaand it's back. fml.

Edit: i located the problem. my computer was infected with the web helper virus. or at least i'm fairly certain that was the problem.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

Cool! To find out for sure, recommend reading these instructions first: Malware Removal Help Posting Instructions

Then click here to start a new topic our Virus/Trojan/Spyware Help forum.


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