# Toshiba Satellite M45 won't boot unless it's COMPLETELY COLD



## rychas (Apr 14, 2008)

This has been both a major inconvenient and a big mistery to me.

*Problem:*

- For the past 6 months, my Toshiba Satellite M45 will ONLY *boot if it's completely cold*, and I really mean completely. Otherwise, it *freezes* at the "toshiba" logo display, right at the beggining. It freezes instantly, and the fan just speeds up like crazy. I'm obliged to a forced shutdown.

- *20~45 minutes after,* it boots perfectly. No problems in Windows afterwards. But if I try to reboot it then, that means more 20~45mins of waiting time.

- It also* doesn't shutdown*; it freezes at the "Windows is Shutting Down" message display. Everytime I want to shutdown, I have to force it.


*Facts:*

- I obviously thought it was a heating problem, so I started to keep track of *temperature*. Its average temperature is about *55ºC*, which is pretty normal...but if I reboot it at, say 48ºC, it still won't boot again, so overheating is not the problem.

- All the hardware is functional.

-It always boots properly when it's cold. 


*Attempted solutions:*

- Fearing it was a bad configuration of power management or something, I *formatted* the laptop and reinstalled the Toshiba software. Now the *ACPI software* doesn't even work, not even at the very first fresh boot.

- *BIOS is updated*; I was afraid of doing it, but I did... and it solved pretty much nothing.

- I tried rebooting with the battery, without, and in many other ways... none of them sucessful.

*Conclusion:*

I don't know what else to do! It's terrible. It's out of the warranty, so I'll have to fix it myself. Could this be a mainboard flaw?

Thanks in advance.


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## al616 (Mar 15, 2008)

Well that's a good description & you have done some work on your own.

Try resetting your memory chip(s). Take them out , make sure all is clean & re install them. Hopefully you have two. If so & you have the same problem try putting them in one at a time & checking or , even better , try other memory chip(s).

edit

I'm not clear when you say you say you "reinstalled the Toshiba software".

Is that in addition to XP or just some of their tools or some such ?


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 30, 2008)

hi,

set your BIOS to default values first since it is kinda new.

if you happen to open the laptop, check if you have dirt, dust or other stuff in your vents, heatsink, etc. at 55 degrees is a little bit high for me but still OK.

I think it is your HDD. do you have Ubuntu CD or BartPE XP live? Use either one of these (i prefer Ubuntu) and boot from the CD driver. It will give you a running system but on a CD drive. Observe if you get the freeze. Try it in a warmer environment setting if you still get the freeze.

If you still get the freeze, it could be RAM but you can check that when you boot Ubuntu. In the Welcome/Setup screen, you can choose to test your RAM among other things.

do post back whatever the result...


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## rychas (Apr 14, 2008)

Thank you both for your replies, much appreciated!

First, by "Toshiba Software" I mean the power management tools they provide. They stopped working ever since I had this problem.

I will try to remove the memory chips as you said, and post back the results. But it seems odd, being a RAM problem...

--

About the possible HDD problem, that shouldn't be it. The HDD is almost brand new, and I've already run a lot of diagnostics and they've all turned out ok. I have Ubuntu Live CD, and will definitely test the RAM anyway.

The freeze problem will occur anyway, since I get the freeze BEFORE the startup system... right at the bios screen. 

I will reset the bios settings, check the RAM, and try to boot with the modules separetely. I will post back later. Thanks!


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## al616 (Mar 15, 2008)

If there's one thing I've learned over the years working with computers it's that things you would think have nothing to do what-so-ever with a problem turn out being the fix.

Hopefully it's the ram or hard drive as the alternative would be a real drag. :sigh:


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 30, 2008)

al616 said:


> If there's one thing I've learned over the years working with computers it's that things you would think have nothing to do what-so-ever with a problem turn out being the fix.
> 
> Hopefully it's the ram or hard drive as the alternative would be a real drag. :sigh:


-- right on target, *al616* :grin:


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## al616 (Mar 15, 2008)

TriggerFinger said:


> -- right on target, *al616* :grin:


 Well the good news I did learn that. The bad news it took longer than it should have to get through my thick head ! :laugh:


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## rychas (Apr 14, 2008)

*My attempted solutions!*

So I gave them a try.

1) *Resetted BIOS settings*; no changes at all.

2) *Made a memory check* with UBUNTU (which fails loading at Power Management Setup, by the way); memory OK.

3) Even *replaced both memory modules* and replaced them with new ones; I still got the problem.

Since the hard drive also seems ok... I guess it all comes down to the motherboard  Any other suggestions?


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## al616 (Mar 15, 2008)

I would not bet money your hard drive is good. It's probably either that or the m/b. Obviously you are going to have to send it in to be repaired if it's the m/b.

I tell you what I would do first...try another hard drive. But you know the problem with that...it may not be the fix. But you would have a new hard drive if the old one went down at least.

I guess it comes down to how much you want to spend on your notebook to get it running again.


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 30, 2008)

rychas said:


> *My attempted solutions!*
> 
> So I gave them a try.
> 
> ...


hi rychas,

i think al616 may be right..

if it is your motherboard, it would be a very expensive repair (not good). what you can do is to test your drive. in my sig is a link to HDD diagnostic tools page. download the diags for the brand/type of HDD that you are using. tests are pretty much straight forward.

if you are also familiar with BARTPE, download it from the link on my sig and create the live CD (if you are on XP). you will need your XP setup CDs in the process. once done, boot from it (not as complete as Ubuntu but you can test if the symptoms is caused by the harddrive).


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## o0FALCON0o (Apr 29, 2008)

im actually having the exact same issues as rychas and i have jumped through hoops to try and get this sorted out... i have one more symptom on mine though,every once in a while when i try to boot up it will try to load as if it isnt a widescreen and it will leave the right half of the screen black. this leads me even more to beleive that it is motherboard and graphics card as well and since it is onboard graphics it means replacing the motherboard anyway


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 30, 2008)

o0FALCON0o said:


> im actually having the exact same issues as rychas and i have jumped through hoops to try and get this sorted out... i have one more symptom on mine though,every once in a while when i try to boot up it will try to load as if it isnt a widescreen and it will leave the right half of the screen black. this leads me even more to beleive that it is motherboard and graphics card as well and since it is onboard graphics it means replacing the motherboard anyway


does it behave the same with an external monitor? if so, then it could be your GPU or mobo.


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## o0FALCON0o (Apr 29, 2008)

u know i honestly havent tried an external monitor but it isnt really worth it either because it has onboard gfx it is going to mean replacing the motherboard anyway


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## Madcatz (Apr 15, 2008)

let us know what happens with the externam monitor falcon, if its the same as what you get with the LCD you could post the product number and I could look at a few things and possibly provide a solution. or at least give you some info.


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## o0FALCON0o (Apr 29, 2008)

well unfortunately its not the original screen because my nephew broke it when it was abotu a month old but i think there is only one model of motherboard that toshiba used for the m45 series that had an intel chipset but im not 100% sure on that though


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## Madcatz (Apr 15, 2008)

o0FALCON0o said:


> well unfortunately its not the original screen because my nephew broke it when it was abotu a month old but i think there is only one model of motherboard that toshiba used for the m45 series that had an intel chipset but im not 100% sure on that though



Theres over 20 different models of the M45 series and the did use different motherboards in them.

But did you try using an external monitor on it yet to see if that worked?

trying that is worth a shot, cause there are three components in toshibas that can cause no video, never know, if it works through an external monitor it may only be a $50 part.


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## stitu (Jul 14, 2008)

Do we have the solution on this one. Am also getting exactly the same issue.

thanks and regards


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## mrsabercrombie (Sep 18, 2008)

o0FALCON0o said:


> im actually having the exact same issues as rychas and i have jumped through hoops to try and get this sorted out... i have one more symptom on mine though,every once in a while when i try to boot up it will try to load as if it isnt a widescreen and it will leave the right half of the screen black. this leads me even more to beleive that it is motherboard and graphics card as well and since it is onboard graphics it means replacing the motherboard anyway


Firstly, i know nothing about computers so help...please...in lamens. I am having THIS problem and it is a MAJOR hassel. I'm pretty much a broke, newlywed college student and cannot afford a new laptop. So any help to fix this myself would be VERRRRY much appreciated.


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## mfilippello (Sep 19, 2008)

I too am having this problem. My computer is a M45-s331. The first sign of trouble was a blue screen out of no where. I think the code was a missing iamdev5.dll file if I remember. I rebooted and it came up fine after 2 attempets. the next day it blue screened again. No missing file listed but a long string of characters which I didn't write down

Now the computer is acting as above. It won't restart propperly, hangs on shutdown. Has to forced of by holding the power button. Won't restart propperly unless you leave it powered down for about 1 min. If you try to start up to soon, it just hangs on the toshiba screen. Also as poster above mentioned. It sometimes tries to boot with out filling the whole screen. everything is left justified. I think it is throwing up a 1024x768 image instead of the 1280x800. Sometimes it won't hold bios settings as well. I went into the bios to set everything to default. then turned of screen stretch. That worked for a couple of restarts but after hard shutting the computer down and having it freeze up a few times trying to get it to reboot, it lost it's bios settings.

Also there is a connection with the battery somehow. The power saver control panel throws up a fatal error code now. I tried reintalling just power save and it did the same thing. I tried uninstalling power saver and it won't let me. I reinstalled windows without the battery installed and power saver works fine. no errors when you open power saver but computer acts the same way about shutting down and restarting. Now after 2 days of no blue screen and no problems with completely reinstalled operating system (other than reboot/shutdown hangs) I attempted to reinstall battery. Now power saver is erooring again and I am getting problems with synaptics touch pad disabling it's self.

This has to be a MB/bios/video problem but have no idea how to trouble shoot further. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mike


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## zwerg99 (Sep 20, 2008)

ok, here's the solution. Had to read through all the useless replies first, until I finally found it in a related problem:

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6035_102-0.html?forumID=69&threadID=90354&messageID=1110516

you have to disable the automatic power settings of the integrated wireless card (coincidentally by intel just like the graphics), as apparently the antenna or whatever causes a electrostatic spike and that is why you have to wait for the computer to 'cool off'.

Should work fine after that.


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## rychas (Apr 14, 2008)

zwerg99 said:


> ok, here's the solution. Had to read through all the useless replies first, until I finally found it in a related problem:
> 
> http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6035_102-0.html?forumID=69&threadID=90354&messageID=1110516
> 
> ...


Sadly, it may not be that simple.

If this was the case (at least my case), the laptop would function properly with the wireless card turned off. The 'Windows Automatic Settings' doesn't make much sense either, since that would mean it's a Software problem - it isn't, otherwise it would even work with Linux and other OS's (and I have tried a few).

However, my symptoms have changed since I last used the Toshiba laptop (I bought a new one a few months ago, an ASUS, which unfortunately also has a few problems of its own! No luck here...).
I can now get past the TOSHIBA post screen everytime I turn the laptop on. I can even choose which OS to load. But it freezes just after that, no matter which OS I choose to load.

A few tests and this is the only thing that changed - I still have to wait about 20min to properly reboot the laptop, with or without the wifi card turned on.

mfilippello;

I too have the same problem with the Power Saver software, I always get a fatal error at windows load-up. Removing and installing the software doesn't make it work either, and even after a fresh format it didn't work as well. I believe the problems are connected, something in the motherboard has to be damaged.


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## mfilippello (Sep 19, 2008)

My battery also shows 101%. computer won't properly go into standby and the wireless network keeps disconnecting and reconnecting every 45 seconds or so.

I wonder if a defective battery could cause problems with the acpi functionality?

Mike


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## ceedy (Sep 4, 2006)

Hi,
Just to say you are not alone .!!!

My old Toshiba satelite M20 , has just started a similar problem.

It will just not boot up 2nd go or when warm ??( well it never seems to get hot)

If left for some time to "rest" it will boot up and run perfectly until reset
then nothing.. lights on, fan and HD spinning but no boot.

Its now stripped to the bare minimum, eg MB/CPU/Ram/HD/DVD rom.
and exactly the same. even removed the LCD and run on an ext display.

Last go, cold booted formatted HD /installed XP , went on the NET through a cable. dowloaded all the drivers & installed , left it running for a couple of hours , played about on the net. reset it .... Nothing!!.

Left to rest for a while, seems no different with Mains power lead in or out . 

Exactly the same on battery power or mains only with battery in or out. 
Booted again and off we go !! no probs until reset. weird .. 

Anyone any clues.. have seen mention of capacitors on the MB a problem ?..

take care All.

C.


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## mfilippello (Sep 19, 2008)

Mine doesn't seem to get hot either.It used to blow hot air out the exhaust. Now it seems to run cooler. I wonder if the heat sink is not conducting well. Maybe it needs new grease.

Mke


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 30, 2008)

When you say 'boot' do you mean up to Windows or just up to BIOS/POST? If you mean booting up to Windows (but fails after Windows XP logo appears), then it could be the HDD. If you mean laptop cannot boot (unless completely cold) even to BIOS settings, then it could be the motherboard or something else.


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## ceedy (Sep 4, 2006)

TriggerFinger said:


> When you say 'boot' do you mean up to Windows or just up to BIOS/POST? If you mean booting up to Windows (but fails after Windows XP logo appears), then it could be the HDD. If you mean laptop cannot boot (unless completely cold) even to BIOS settings, then it could be the motherboard or something else.





Hi, It will not Post.. Leave it some time, and its off again into Xp no problem and will run for hours. 

restart and nothing .. no post .. lights on , but no one at home !!!
( the toshiba ) not me ;-)


take care Chris


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## ldh058 (Jan 17, 2009)

I am working on a M45 for a customer and have also had similar experiences with this laptop. It will only boot to the splash screen, however after letting it set for a bit, it will boot into Windows and all seems fine. However, when restarting, it will either hang or when it does exit windows, the screen will be blank (the power light is still on). The laptop is not running hot. Ran diagnostic utility and I am not finding a hardware issue, however I am not ruling that out. Haven't seen anything posted in awhile, but maybe someone who has posted earlier has found out a solution. Thanks!


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## mfilippello (Sep 19, 2008)

ldh058 said:


> I am working on a M45 for a customer and have also had similar experiences with this laptop. It will only boot to the splash screen, however after letting it set for a bit, it will boot into Windows and all seems fine. However, when restarting, it will either hang or when it does exit windows, the screen will be blank (the power light is still on). The laptop is not running hot. Ran diagnostic utility and I am not finding a hardware issue, however I am not ruling that out. Haven't seen anything posted in awhile, but maybe someone who has posted earlier has found out a solution. Thanks!



My scenario exactly. Only I also have the poblem with the wireless droping and reconnecting every couple of minutes or so. I have to let it sit for about 5 min. to bring it back up after shutdown or it hangs at post. Once up and running, it will run fine for days. I just don't shut it off. If I could get the wifi from dropping out I could just leave it on 24/7.

Mike


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## ldh058 (Jan 17, 2009)

What is frustrating mfilippello is that although this seems to be somewhat common, I am unable to find a solution on the Internet. I ended up breaking down this laptop into pieces and couldn't find anything out of the ordinary. Since I had it broke down, I decided to "fix" the power button which in my opinion was "poorly" made. A flimsy plastic button that is "welded" to the upper case on three corners with the tab towards the display broke. Used epoxy to fix it. Anyway, everything is working great, but I will have to tell the customer to only shut it down if he doesn't need it again for about 30 minutes (the time it takes to "right" itself, before you can think about booting back up again).

I also thought about the wireless and pulled the card out and it still did not boot up. I have run all the usual diagnostics including Spinrite on the HD and found nothing. I have concluded however despite that, this must be a hardware issue, unless anyone can tell me otherwise...

Lawrence


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## mfilippello (Sep 19, 2008)

Agreed, you would think by now someone would have figured out what the problem is, since it seems to be an epedimic among these computers. Every thread I have found has no solution. I keep hoping someone will post the answer here. I am not an electronics guy so I have no way to test a motherboard. I imagine the problem lies there, but since it is cheaper to buy a new laptop than have one diagnosed and fixed, most have probably just moved on to new unit.

Mike


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## ldh058 (Jan 17, 2009)

I actually used a paid service over the Internet to try and find a solution and it ended up with "How about we format your drive and start fresh". This tech (more certifications then you can shake a stick at) went through all the usual steps to diagnose a computer and came up empty. Anyway, that is where we left it. So, I gave the laptop back to the customer that I was working on it for and said, "it works great...just if you shut it off, you will have to wait a while before you can use it again". Great, eh? He said..."Time for a Mac". So, officially I am done with this laptop and it sure doesn't convince me to go out and buy a Toshiba anytime soon. Sad. Like you Mike, I will check back from time to time to see if this is ever resolved. Thanks!


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 30, 2008)

Lawrence/Mike,

I have read one of you has opened the laptop up? Were you able to replace the thermal compound? Is the fan running OK?

Also when you try to power ON after a shutdown, does the fan spin (even if screen is blank)? Any activity from the HDD and/or CD/DVD drive? If fan spins and there is an activity from HDD/CD drive then it could be starting up but the screen just remains blank (even with an external monitor)... pointing to a video chip/card problem (probably overheating).


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## ldh058 (Jan 17, 2009)

TriggerFinger said:


> Lawrence/Mike,
> 
> I have read one of you has opened the laptop up? Were you able to replace the thermal compound? Is the fan running OK?
> 
> Also when you try to power ON after a shutdown, does the fan spin (even if screen is blank)? Any activity from the HDD and/or CD/DVD drive? If fan spins and there is an activity from HDD/CD drive then it could be starting up but the screen just remains blank (even with an external monitor)... pointing to a video chip/card problem (probably overheating).


Good Questions TriggerFinger! I broke the laptop totally down and the only thing I did was fix the power button. I did not replace the thermal compound as it was still soft and pliable. In my particular case, this is not a heat issue. How do I know? Well, If I start up the system when totally cold and go into bios and exit right away, the system does not boot up. I turn the system off at that point and immediately try to turn back on, no go and I am sure there was not enough time for the processor to even get warm. Something else is happening. When it does not boot up, the HDD works till it gets to the splash screen and quits. If I leave it alone, the CD ROM spins and yes you can here the fan running (so that works). All this with an external monitor hooked up or not, does not matter. I also applied the latest BIOS (I believe 1.20) and did a factory reset. This changed nothing. As I mentioned in my last post, I returned it to the customer and he understands that he just can't turn it off or restart it and expect to log back on. He is OK with that right now as Windows works fine once he boots the machine up. I would have liked to try another HD just to rule that out for sure, however, the one that is in there was put in by me in August 2008 and I ran all kinds of tests on it and it appears to be in top shape (WD Scorpion 160 Gig). I will continue to follow this thread as I am of course interested as all of you in a solution, should one arise :smile:


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 30, 2008)

Hi Lawrence,

Thanks for the reply... I mean the video chip/card is the one overheating not the CPU. The way you described it, everything is running well at power ON/RESTART except for the screen from the get go... is this correct? 

You mentioned about the splash screen coming up when you leave it alone after an immediate power up... so does that mean you get something on screen (I mean eventually however temporary as it blanks out after that)?

My two cents is... if you get nothing on screen (LCD or monitor) from power ON to eternity of waiting (given startup activities are observed), then it could be the video card or Windows drivers. However if you get to a splash screen after some time (but quits immediately after) then it could be the hard drive, Windows drivers but very unlikely the video card. Why not test it with a live CD (yes, remove the HDD)?

Ahh shucks... never mind... I realized you do not have the laptop in your possession now. Thanks anyway.


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## rychas (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm sad to see that no one has been able to find out what the problem exactly is, I would very much like to use my old laptop again as a second laptop. However, after I bought a new one, I left the Toshiba sitting alone for about two months, and something interesting happened:

For the first time ever, at least since I began to have these problems, it oftens get past the POST screen, even after 30 minutes of use. The problem is, it freezes again just after that. And 2 out of 10 times, it actually shuts down without me needing to shut it down manually.

I honestly began to believe it had something to do with the POWER button, which was slightly damaged (it was loose, and buried into the laptop). But now I see that ldh encountered the same problem, fixed it, and things remain the same.

Just for the sake of it, I changed its RAM modules, and nothing changed. 

Another funny thing is the fact that Ubuntu deals with this issues exactly the same way; Ubuntu is unable to shutdown the laptop as well, so anything related to Windows is certainly out of the equation here.

TriggerFinger,

That shouldn't be the case. Just as the system freezes, there is a complete lock up of system activity, the only thing I can hear is the fan spinning eternally. HDD doesn't make a sound after the freeze, and even the Caps Lock light freezes. Temperatures of that laptop are great, so overheating is not an issue. I also have Ubuntu installed on the system and the symptoms are the same.

It has to be some internal flaw on the motherboard, I think we've ruled out pretty much everything else.


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## TriggerFinger (Jan 30, 2008)

I agree, it could be the video card or the motherboard. Not a good investment if you are considering replacement or repair.:sigh:


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## broady59 (Sep 29, 2009)

I am a tech with a customer machine Toshiba M45 and the same problem. The computer stops at the boot screen with the four icons and then does nothing. When cold it works fine. I did image the drive and replaced with new hard drive with same image and the same issue occured. Sometimes it will boot to a 3/4 spash screen with a black bar on the right. And freeze there. Sometimes not. It is a shame because other than that it works fine. Occasionally shutdown hangs as well. Let the PC sit 10 minutes and it works again. It looks like some component with a low heat threshold is stopping things from starting. If I keep on and offing the start button, it may start up in once in ten tries. P.O.S.


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## ekipmanager (Nov 10, 2009)

Hi there,



I have the same problem with my M45-S292 for past 10 days. I tried everything and it is sad that it seems nothing works according to the link you posted. Anyway, when I formatted my laptop it worked fine. I started with XP SP3 and then it was fine, Intel chipsets, it was fine. Then I installed graphic card and windows updates and it rebooted with that 3/4 screen so I thought it could be the graphic card. I uninstalled it and it was fine again!! I even reinstall the graphics (Intel 915) and it was fine still! Then I installed the rest of the updates and Zonealarm and it had problem so again uninstall and install graphics and it worked. I even used it for a day with firefox and web browsing and it was totally fine. So the only things on my laptop were an up to date XP SP3, up-to-date BIOS, drivers (No Toshiba softwares like Common module, power or anything),Winrar, Zonealarm, Firefox and IE 8, wmp 11, vlc media player, and flash player and everything was fine!

So I started by installing these softwares Nero, Winamp, Real Player, Jet Audio, and Babylon and BAM it got the problem and now uninstalling the graphic card does not help anymore! :-(

I may try to play with the WiFi and see if there is a conflict between them, and also uninstalling these recent softwares but the problem is really wired because when it has to be cooled down or wait it means there is a hardware problem that, and by the time of the post in your link I can say that it is not due to a recent update and it is a hardware failure for sure. But the fact that uninstalling the graphic card helps shows that it is a software conflict too!!!

Please keep me posted if you had anything new or found something about the issue

*******

Update : Ok, the wireless adapter uninstall/install did not help but when I uninstalled Nero 8 it was OK and then I reinstalled it and I had the problem again! I do not know what these drivers or software change that causes this hardware problem!! I uninstalled Nero again AND I HAD the problem even after uninstalling/installing the wireless card and the graphic card. So this is a pseudo-random thing that happens! My guess is also the motherboard but it is odd that this is a software conflict too!
K1


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