# [SOLVED] VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build



## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

Hi All, I am looking to build (or purchase) a fairly powerful machine that will allow me to run at least six VMs at the same time, and also play new video games with high graphic settings. I'm planning on studying for some server 2012 certifications in the next few months, and need something with a powerful cpu(s), at least 16GB of memory, a good video card, big HDD (at least 1TB, wouldn't mind doing a RAID5 setup either), and a solid power supply to power it all. I'd like to stay under $1000 for all this if possible. I'd love to hear any suggestions/recommendations you have for parts that would let me achieve my objectives. Thanks!


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

I doubt you could do it with only $1000 but let me make you a special system as you'll need correct parts for running so many VMs.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Here is what you will be looking at:

ASUS Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk Black - Newegg.com

Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Arctic White Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Newegg.com

Seagate SV35 Series ST1000VX000 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Enterprise Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive - Newegg.com

Newegg.com - EVGA 02G-P4-2763-KR GeForce GTX 760 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support w/ EVGA ACX Cooler Video Card

SeaSonic S12II 620 Bronze 620W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Newegg.com

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9D-16GXM - Newegg.com

Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD3H LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

Newegg.com - Intel Core i7-4770 Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I74770

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155 and AMD FM1/FM2/AM3+ - Newegg.com

Now there are some parts that typically we would add to a build like the CPU cooler but running 6 VMs at once will force the parts to get warm. I also added in the i7 ONLY because it will handle the multitasking much better.

Its a total of: $1,179.91

If $1000 is your maximum budget I could see if we could change the parts around to bring down the price.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

For about $200 less you could substitute the board, RAM, and processor for an XW9400 board (make sure it has copper VRM heatsinks; the blacks are an earlier revision which doesn't support Istanbul procs), two Opteron 2435 6-core processors, and 32GB of PC2-5300 ECC RAM. They'd all be used from eBay, but you'd triple the available cores and double the RAM (not to mention allowing for correction of double bit errors), allowing you to dedicate a full core or more to each VM.

Then again, I'm partial to saving money buying surplus parts. You'll lose some graphics bandwidth due to it only supporting PCI-e 1.0, but you can always make up for that with up to quad SLI (up to 48 lanes worth of bandwidth due to dual PCI-e controllers) with an upgrade to the PSU.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Wow, lots to look at. Thanks for the recommendations Masterchief and Fjandr! I like what I see so far. I'm thinking of possibly going with two 500GB hard drives, that way I could have one hard drive dedicated to one set of VMs, and another one dedicated to the other set. 

Fjandr, if I would get everything I need used, but in good condition, how much do you think I could save on this build? Just looking for a ballpark figure. If it's substantial I might go that route. I do really like your idea about getting two Opteron 2435 processors in there, and having each VM get at least 1 dedicated core. Good idea. I also really would like having the extra memory to play with if I went for 32GB. If the graphics have to suffer a bit, I'm not too worried about it honestly. The main thing I want this system for is to be able to set up a legit virtual environment for my studies and testing at home. If I could turn it into a gaming beast as well for a few extra hundred dollars, that would be a bonus. I'd like to hook this thing up to a big screen LED TV, so I'll definitely need something decent with an HDMI port though.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Well, the newer boards tend to go for around $150, though you can occasionally find them for less. A pair of 2435 processors will probably set you back $100-$150. The RAM you can get for $10 per 4GB stick of [email protected] ECC Registered. Nobody lists for that price, but if you send a Best Offer to everyone who lists 16GB sets you'll get at least two who will sell for $40 / 16GB set of 4 DIMMs. I've done it a couple times and never come up short. Usually I'll get 3-4 sellers accepting at that rate because there's so much of it on the market currently. Just make sure you're not trying to buy FBDIMMs, since they're not the same.

That'll come to roughly $380 on the top end, in exchange for the $600 cost of the new items in Masterchief's post. Depending on what's available at the time, it may be less than that or it may be more. Buying surplus enterprise parts really comes down to a little luck and whether you want to buy immediately regardless of what current prices are or if you're willing to wait and watch to get the absolute best deal.

As I said above, if you want to go this route, make absolutely sure that the seller is selling a board with copper VRM heatsinks. That's the only way (short of knowing the revision number of the board) to guarantee the board has split power planes designed to support the Istanbul (6-core) Opterons. You can get them to work on older boards, but it's a royal pain to do if the board doesn't have a socketed BIOS chip (in which case you can simply buy a chip with a BIOS supporting Istanbul procs, pop the old one out, and pop the new one in).

As for turning one into a gaming beast, you can, though it'll cost a bit more than a board designed for gaming. As I said, these boards will support up to quad SLI with more channels available than any board on the market. The only downside is those channels are only PCI-e 1.0, so you'll get roughly the same bandwidth performance as a dual SLI PCI-e 2.0 setup (though with a lot more available GPU processing power).

These also have PCI-X slots, which can be a real boon for running multiple VMs. With PCI-X, you can get really nice server cards for really cheap. Dual gigabit Intel NICs tend to run about $10, and allow you to offload TCP/IP processing to free up more CPU cycles. For about $40, you can get quad gigabit NICs if you need to dedicate a lot of bandwidth to each VM, or even to bond connections (with a switch that also supports port bonding) to get 2, 4, 6, or even 8Gb/s port speeds. Beats spending $300 on a 10Gb card. :smile:

Onboard SAS (8 ports) included: HP Workstation XW9400 Quadcore Motherboard SPS 571889 001 5704327811022 | eBay

Opteron 2435s: AMD Opteron 2435 6 Core 2 6GHz 6M Server Processor OS2435WJS6DGN | eBay

4x4GB w/ Best Offer (just set your search to only show listings with Best Offer): 16GB RAM 4X 4GB DDR2 PC2 5300P 240 Pin ECC Registered Hynix Dell SNPJK002C 4G | eBay

Kingston is the official supplier of XW9400 RAM, but Hynix, Samsung, Nanya, or Qimonda modules all work perfectly well on these boards.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Okay, tell me what you think of this so far...

Motherboard: HP Workstation XW9400 Quadcore Motherboard SPS 571889 001 5704327811022 | eBay

Memory (32GB total): 16GB RAM 4X 4GB DDR2 PC2 5300P 240 Pin ECC Registered Hynix Dell SNPJK002C 4G | eBay

Processors: AMD Opteron 2435 6 Core 2 6GHz 6M Server Processor OS2435WJS6DGN | eBay

Case: Amazon.com: NZXT Guardian 921 RB ATX Mid Tower Case, Black 921RB-001-BL: Electronics

Power Supply 750W: Amazon.com: Corsair CX750 Builder Series ATX 80 PLUS Bronze Certified Power Supply: Computers & Accessories

Heat Sink x2: HP Workstation XW9400 CPU Heatsink and Fan Assembly 415491 001 | eBay

Hard Drives (going to get two and stripe them): Amazon.com: WD Blue 750 GB Desktop Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM, SATA III, 64 MB Cache - WD7500AZEX: Computers & Accessories

CD\DVD Burner: Amazon.com : Asus 24xDVD-RW Serial ATA Internal OEM Drive DRW-24B1ST (Black) : Internal Dvd Drives : Electronics

Graphics Card: Need Suggestions

So what do you think? Will all of this work together? My three main concerns are the following:

1. Do you have any suggestions for graphic cards so that I can at least have something decent? I'd like to be able to play newer games on high(ish) settings. I know that's going to be hard with PCI Express 1.0, but what card do you think would do best in this system?

2. Is 750 watts enough power for this?

3. Do you think the case I picked would provide adequate ventilation?

Please let me know your thoughts. I appreciate all your help so far!


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

I can't comment on the motherboard and CPU just because my knowledge of workstations isn't all too high.

What I do know is you have low quality PSU that needs to be changed. This one will do the trick:

XFX Core Edition PRO650W (P1-650S-NLB9) 650W ATX12V 2.2 & ESP12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Newegg.com

Stick with *XFX or Seasonic* PSUs only!

Also a WD Blue will do fine but WD Black HDDs are made for heavy usage. You may want to look for a WD black instead. Otherwise the Blue will suffice.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

I'd actually suggest at least an 800W supply for this board. That'll be adequate to supply the processors, drives, and GPU you have, and will provide you the ability to add several more drives and another GPU down the line should you decide to go that way.

The case might be a problem. These boards are EEB (12"x13"), so it may be a very tight fit in that case.

I'd recommend against Corsair as a supplier anyway, unless that happens to be one built by SeaSonic (Google "2013 who's who PSU" to get a chart of all OEM builders). It actually looks like that case could fit an OEM XW9400 supply though. They're slightly larger than ATX, but as long as the case supports the same orientation as the one you listed and provides a little extra room on the non-mb-tray side and above the PSU, they're great workhorse supplies and they're cheap. Run about <$30 on eBay (I know, since I sell them :smile, they're 800W, they support SLI, and they're built by the #1 PSU producer on the planet (Delta, and that is both in quality and quantity).

I would highly suggest not running a striped array unless you also mirror it. The speed boost really isn't worth doubling your risk of data loss. That's just my personal opinion though. Not to mention since this board supports SAS drives, you can grab 146GB 15,000 RPM drives for dirt cheap on eBay, and one will perform the same as your striped set as a boot drive. Then you can get whatever you want for storage drives. The only thing to realize with SAS drives is that if they're not installed in an SAS-supported backplane, you need a particular connector or an SAS/SATA interposer. They also have be attached to the SAS ports. SATA drives can be attached to SATA or SAS ports, but SAS drives cannot be attached to SATA ports.

The one other thing I should mention is that there is a mildly annoying quirk of the XW9400 boards. You need to get the HP front panel I/O connector in order to prevent boot error messages saying the front audio and USB are not found. You also need to attach the front fan to a specific header or you'll get a "PCI fan not found" message. All the other messages can be turned off in the BIOS. If you do decide to got with this option, I'd be willing to set you up with a complete dual heat sink + front I/O port package for less than you can get it anywhere else. I'm intimately familiar with these setups since I run one as my main system and sell surplus parts for them.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

The "2013 who's who PSU" is outdated and inaccurate.
Stay with XFX-SeaSonic-Antec HGC for PSU's for insured quality. 
The only SeaSonic supplied Corsair, that would suffice, would the the AX 760 or AX 860.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Thanks for the information everyone, here is my new and updated parts lists...tell me what you think 

Power Supply: HP XW9400 XW8400 800W PSU Power Supply 405351 003 408947 001 TDPS 825AB Delta | eBay

Motherboard: HP Workstation XW9400 Quadcore Motherboard SPS 571889 001 5704327811022 | eBay

Memory: 16GB RAM 4X 4GB DDR2 PC2 5300P 240 Pin ECC Registered Hynix Dell SNPJK002C 4G | eBay

CPUs: AMD Opteron 2435 6 Core 2 6GHz 6M Server Processor OS2435WJS6DGN | eBay

Heat Sinks: HP Workstation XW9400 CPU Heatsink and Fan Assembly 415491 001 | eBay

Hard Drive (x2) : 



 WD Blue 750 GB Desktop Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM, SATA III, 64 MB Cache - WD7500AZEX: Computers & Accessories

CD/DVD Burner: 




Case: 




Video Card: HELP! 

I realize the case might be a tight fit, but I think it can work.

My real question is, what should I get for the video card on this thing?? I know my options are limited with PCI 1.0, but what would be the best I could get? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

How much do you have left to spend?

Also don't forget your missing a PSU.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Hi Masterchief, the power supply is actually the first link in my post. And I'd be willing to drop between $150-$250 for a good, quality card. I heard that most PCI-E 2.0 cards are backwards compatible with PCI-E 1.0. Is that true? What sort of things should I be considering from a motherboard, and CPU standpoint when looking for a graphics card? My knowledge is a little fuzzy when it comes to that, there seems to be so many variables and things to take into account with video cards these days.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Yes, any PCI-e 2.0 card should work in a 1.0 slot. The cards don't depend much on motherboard or CPU specs, though in the case of this particular motherboard you'd be better served going with an Nvidia card. You can get pretty nice cards for that price range. Top end (actually about $265) would get you a GTX760, which will far outlast the board itself in regard to its technology level (it's a PCI-e 3.0 card).

Also, you may want to order the case in advance, especially since it's enough to qualify for free shipping on its own and so are the other two Amazon items combined. That way you can measure the interior to make sure that PSU is small enough to fit.

I'll check the cable length on the PSU to make sure it'll reach the power connectors at the top of the board since that case uses a bottom mount PSU. The 24-pin is the only one which concerns me regarding length. I'll post later tonight once I've had a chance to measure it. I'll also get exact measurements on the PSU if you do decide to order the case first.

Since you've decided to go this way, if you'd like I can give you a deal on the HSFs and the PSU. $65.00 total (inc. shipping) for 2 HSFs and the PSU, vs. the $74.61 above. I'd also throw in as many SATA cables as you need if you don't have extras laying around, and a 2210 processor in case that board needs a BIOS update to install the 6-cores. 

If you ever fill all 8 memory slots, you'll want direct fan coverage of the memory. This is pretty much the case in any DDR2+ board that has 4 or more adjacent slots. Since you're only going with 4 DIMMs right now you'll be fine though. Just something to be aware of in the future.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*



tim19889 said:


> Hi Masterchief, the power supply is actually the first link in my post.


Corsair PSUs are low quality and should not be used in a system like this one.

You will want a *XFX or Seasonic* branded PSU only!



> And I'd be willing to drop between $150-$250 for a good, quality card. I heard that most PCI-E 2.0 cards are backwards compatible with PCI-E 1.0. Is that true? What sort of things should I be considering from a motherboard, and CPU standpoint when looking for a graphics card? My knowledge is a little fuzzy when it comes to that, there seems to be so many variables and things to take into account with video cards these days


Yes PCIe is all backwards compatible.

This here will work out great for you:

ASUS HD7770-2GD5 Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 2GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - Newegg.com


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

The PSU listed in the latest update isn't Corsair, it's the Delta OEM that comes with the XW9400.

Also, the board doesn't support Crossfire, so that card will limit him should he ever decide to add an SLI or Physx-only board (or two, or three :smile to the machine.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Post #11 shows a XW 8400 PSU that costs $29.
Using a $29 PSU, to power a PC that I invested close to $1000 in, wouldn't be my choice.
The PSU is the most important component in any system. Stay with a top quality PSU to help insure a more usable and longer life from your build.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Delta makes some of the highest quality power supplies in the world. Any review site which reviews Deltas will confirm that, without exception. They're much like Etasis in that regard. Most people aren't aware of the forgoing because Delta is an OEM-only supplier, and does not sell consumer supplies. They're cheap because they're ubiquitous and because they do not fit into many cases due to their larger-than-ATX outline.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*



Masterchiefxx17 said:


> Corsair PSUs are low quality and should not be used in a system like this one.
> 
> You will want a *XFX or Seasonic* branded PSU only!





> Also, the board doesn't support Crossfire, so that card will limit him should he ever decide to add an SLI or Physx-only board (or two, or three :smile to the machine.


Crossfire and SLI is also pointless in a way. One card is better then two. Not having Crossfire or SLI support should not matter what so ever.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*



Fjandr said:


> The PSU listed in the latest update isn't Corsair, it's the Delta OEM that comes with the XW9400.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

$29 PSU in a $1000 build. 
Your money - your choice.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

The PSU retailed for far more than that (well, replacement value anyway, as the PSU itself was never sold through retail channels). I already explained why they're so cheap, but PSU religion is strong on this site.

As for multi-gpu support, any game utilizing anti-aliasing will nearly double frame rates with the addition of another GPU. It also allows for hardware pass-through of a second dedicated GPU to any VM he may wish to run in that manner. It all depends on what exactly someone is running. A VM machine with upgrade options is always more preferable to one without those options.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Understood but a used $29 PSU would not be my choice regardless of the name on the label and nothing I would recommend for a new build. :smile:
We recommend only top quality PSU's because the PSU is the most important component in any PC.


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## loda117 (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Also just throw my own 2 cents into this 

6 VMs and video gaming at the same time with Raid 0 on 2 drives or raid 1 on 2 drives is not going to be practical in real world 
You are going to need atleast 4 drives in Raid 10 to keep up with disk usage requests from all VMs, whatever you use to visualize, and video games 
or atleast raid 5 give you better read

For my lab i used the following parts with 4 1TB HDDs in Raid 10 config 
Currently has 2 DCs, 2 exchange Servers(DCs and Exchange are in production since i have users and emails running off of it), SQL server 2012, and 2 Windows machines for testing purposes I still have room to put 2 more Servers until i max out my RAM so if you shop around you can probably get all this under $700.00 
here are the specs and it cost me close to $700 and i got used case from craigslist, used DVD drive, and 2 used NICs for my virtual machines 

Operating System
Windows Server 2012 Standard 64-bit
CPU
AMD FX-8150
Zambezi 32nm Technology
RAM
32.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 668MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard
Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. GA-78LMT-USB3 (Socket M2)	
Graphics
ATI video (Gigabyte)
Hard Drives
1863GB AMD 2X2 Mirror/RAID1 SCSI Disk Device (RAID)


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

If you hadn't noticed, it's not exactly a "new" build. If that's the metric you're using, you'd have to throw out the motherboard, CPUs, and memory as well.

Delta _is_ a top quality PSU supplier, arguably producing units of higher quality than vaunted SeaSonic. There's a reason why Delta is the de facto PSU supplier for a significant proportion of enterprise OEMs producing high-availability systems, including HP, Dell, and Cisco. Next you'll tell me a $40 surplus Emacs redundant PSU should be avoided just because it's inexpensive (for the same reasons the HP PSU is cheap). The reliance on dogma in certain areas is very much a detriment to this site.

@loda: I definitely agree in regards to the RAID recommendations. I'm not a fan of RAID 0, and RAID 1 is best suited for a boot drive that's not going to be seeing a lot of data transfer.

As far as VMs + gaming, it would be my assumption that they probably wouldn't be going on at the same time since this is a study machine rather than a production one.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

The OP can now choose on which PSU he believes is best. 

Any more posts related to PSUs will be deleted unless the OP replies.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*



Masterchiefxx17 said:


> The OP can now choose on which PSU he believes is best.


Ditto^ 



Tyree said:


> Your money - your choice.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

I measured the 24-pin cable (the P4 is the same length), so take into consideration that it'll require an extension adapter to use the HP PSU in your case. It's a few inches too short to reach from the bottom of your case to the power connectors at the top of the board. All the other cabling should be plenty long enough.

The PSU width is 6 5/16" and the height is 3 7/8", so as long as there is enough room above and to the non-tray side it'll fit into the case.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Thanks for the input everyone. I've decided on all the parts now, except for the graphics card and PSU. As for the graphics card, I'm debating between the two that were posted, the Radeon HD7770 2GD and the Nvidia GTX760. The HD7770 looks like it performs well on high but not ultra high settings on most new games. The GTX760 does well on ultra high settings, is very quiet, and will allow me to play new games, as they come out, on higher settings for longer. For the extra $100, I'm leaning towards the GTX760. One question though. Will I be able to use this thing to it's full capacity in this board? If I won't be able to, then I'd rather go with the Radeon HD7770, and save the money.

Fjander- Actually, I'm going to be putting 32GB in this machine. I should have put x2 when I was posting the parts. I'll be sure to get a fan to put over the memory as you advised. Also, with that Delta power supply, do you know if it has any sort of protection to prevent damage to the board and components? Such as OCP (Overcurrent protection) & OPP (Overload protection) & SCP (Short-circuit protection) &OVP (Overvoltage protection) &UVP (Undervoltage protection)? If I buy that power supply, and it craps out, I don't really mind. I'll just buy a new one. If it craps out and damages the board and/or components, that's another story entirely though, and I definitely don't want to risk that.

Loda- Yeah you're right, RAID 0 probably isn't the best idea. I'm planning to go with two WD Black Edition 750GB hard drives for now. I'll create two partitions on the one hard drive, one for the host OS and one for half the VMs I'll be running. On the other hard drive, I'll stick the other half of the VMs. I don't plan on having a ton of read/write operations going on simultaneously between all the VMs initially, but if I ever do get to that point, I'll throw in another 750GB drive and set up a RAID 5 configuration. 

So, to sum up, if I can get these three questions answered...

1. Will I be able to use the GTX760 video card to it's full potential in this rig?
2. Does the XW9400 PSU have any kind of protection to keep it from damaging the board/components?
3. Would that power supply be able to support the current set up, plus an additional hard drive down the line, and perhaps some extra NICs? I assume yes, but just want to get your advise. 

I think I'll be ready to start ordering things 


Thanks again for all your help and advise!!


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

First off, I want to make sure to stress that your graphics bottleneck won't be with either of those cards. Because the Tyan S2915-E board (that's the design the XW9400 is based off of) is a bit older, it only runs PCI-e 1.0. The maximum transfer rate for a single 16x card is 40 Gb/s, while the 3.0 spec allows for 128Gb/s transfers. Of course, that's the maximum bit rate, and hitting that cap is something you only tend to do when operating on massive textures or video transcoding using OpenCL or CUDA (which most transcoders _still_ don't fully support).

As for the protections on the PSU, they're not listed anywhere because it's an OEM unit. While I would assume they do given Delta's stellar reputation, I'll pull one apart and list which protection circuits it actually has installed just to make sure.

As for expandability, the Delta TDPS-825AB is designed to run 2 GPUs, 4 HDDs, 2 optical drives, and two multi-monitor cards as a standard configuration. They also have quite a bit of headroom over that. For example, I'm running a machine with 3x 7200 RPM SATA 3.5" HDDs and 3x 10,000 RPM 2.5" SAS HDDs, plus 3 optical drives. While I don't have a second GPU installed currently, I have in the past and had nary a hiccup. They're also dead quiet.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Haven't completed going over the PSU, but I can make some preliminary comments about its safety features. SCP is there; it's pretty much the oldest form of protection circuit, and very cheap to implement well. There are thermistors attached to one of the secondary heatsinks for fan temp control and over-temp protection. Additional digital SCP and thermal protection, plus over-load/-loop protection, are included via an Infineon ICE2A2802 SMPS controller.

The rails are all properly isolated and shunted, which points to effective OCP (though I haven't located the controller yet to verify), and the main and filter capacitors are rated at 105C rather than the typical 85C, which should effectively double their lifespan.

The ATX12V spec requires OVP/UVP, though the trigger points are dependent on the monitoring IC used, which I also haven't located yet. I only had a little bit of time to go over it though, so I'll try to locate the ICs and find their trigger specs tomorrow.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*



tim19889 said:


> Thanks for the input everyone. I've decided on all the parts now, except for the graphics card and PSU. As for the graphics card, I'm debating between the two that were posted, the Radeon HD7770 2GD and the Nvidia GTX760.


Both of the above listed GPU's require a good quality 500W minimum PSU. 
A 620W minimum SeaSonic-XFX-Antec HGC would meet the requirements with insured quality.

7770 vs GTX 760: http://www.hwcompare.com/14810/geforce-gtx-760-vs-radeon-hd-7770/


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*



> 2. Does the XW9400 PSU have any kind of protection to keep it from damaging the board/components?


The Seasonic unit does have prefect protection:



> Over Voltage / Over Power / Short Circuit Protection


Plus a 5 year warranty!

SeaSonic S12II 620 Bronze 620W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Newegg.com



> 1. Will I be able to use the GTX760 video card to it's full potential in this rig?


Since the board does run at PCIe 1.0 it may be best to get a cheaper card.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

The supply rails are all controlled via 2 LM324DG amplifiers, which have built-in digital OCP/UVP/OVP/SCP protections.

I also didn't fully read the datasheet on the Infineon SMPS controller. It includes digital OCP/UVP/OVP protections as well as what I listed above.

So, in summary there are independent controllers providing redundant implementation of all PSU industry standard protections.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Thanks Fjandr! I appreciate all the research you did. In the end though, I decided to go with this Antec HGC 750 watt power supply. Antec High Current Gamer Series HCG-750 750W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V v2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Newegg.com

Granted, the XW9400 power supply probably would have worked great, and been safe, but I was just a little leery about buying a used power supply. Who knows how hard it was used, and in what conditions? Just didn't want to take any chances.

Also, I ended up going with the Nvidia GTX760 for the video card. I can't wait to get it set up and try out some games with it !!

The only thing I'm waiting on now is a good deal for some 16GB of 4GB memory modules. 

Thanks again everyone for your help. I'll keep you posted and let you know how things go as I receive parts and start to put things together.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Good choice on the PSU and GPU! The Antec HCG are high quality as well.

Let us know if you need any more help.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

No worries. It'll also mean you won't need a 24-pin extender. Given the case choice, the Antec will likely be more convenient to install.

As for RAM, I'd suggest offering $40 on all the available Best Offer lots; you don't have to accept an offer a seller agrees to, so you're not on the hook to pay if more than two sellers accept. You'll probably get at least two sellers (all you need to max the board) who agree to that price point. There's a glut of this RAM for sale, so lots of them just want to be rid of it. I'd suggest avoiding Samsung RAM, but I've had good luck with pretty much every other manufacturer.

16GB 4X 4GB Memory M393T5160CZA CE6 PC2 5300P ECC Registered Dell | eBay
16GB 4X 4GB Micron HP 405477 001 DDR2 667 CL5 ECC Reg PC2 5300P 555 12 ZZ | eBay
16GB 4X 4GB Qimonda PC2 5300P DDR2 667MHz ECC Registered HYS72T512920EP 3S C2 | eBay
16GB 4x4GB Micron HP 405477 061 PC2 5300P 667MHz ECC Buffered Memory | eBay
4GB x4 PC2 5300 16GB Crucial CT51272AB667 M36FG ECC Reg Server RAM 2970 | eBay
16GB 4 x GB IBM 41Y2851 PC2 5300P DDR2 667 ECC Reg Server Memory | eBay
16GB 4 x 4GB HP PC2 5300P DDR2 667 ECC Reg Memory 405477 061 | eBay

The search I use: 5300 ecc -(1gb,2gb,512mb,fbdimm) (16gb,32gb) | eBay
There are also a bunch of 8x4GB lots as well. The above are just the lowest listed, so they tend to be more likely to accept.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Thanks Fjander, I just made an offer and got 32GB of memory for $100. Not too bad I don't think . It was Dell brand memory. I'll post again once I start putting this thing together, and inevitably run into some sort of issue lol.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Not too shabby. The memory may be branded Dell, but it'll actually be produced by another company. Looking again, I shouldn't have included the first link above since the manufacturer is Samsung. Hopefully you don't have any issues with that memory. Just remember that, regardless of a seller's return policy, you have 45 days to open a Not As Described case should a part (or parts) turn out to be defective despite the listing saying it's functional.

HP also tends to have multiple part numbers that overlap, so if you're looking for other HP-branded parts try a generic search and look at the part numbers in the title. You can also chop off the -001 (or whatever the 3-digit suffix is) and it'll still show up in a search. There are sometimes multiple suffixes as well, so chopping it off will often lead to more search results.

You can put in a search such as (439071,415491,419626) and it'll show you any result that has at least one of the numbers included. Those are all the heatsink part numbers by the way, so if you haven't purchased a set yet you can pop that into the eBay search and it'll show you pretty much every listing for compatible HP-branded heatsinks. Some people also have better deals on shipping if you buy multiples, so going with the lowest listing won't necessarily get you the best price.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

The case I ordered was too small . Motherboard was about an inch too wide.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Yeah, you have to be careful with EEB/MEB boards. They're big.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*



tim19889 said:


> Thanks Fjander, I just made an offer and got 32GB of memory for $100. Not too bad I don't think . It was Dell brand memory. I'll post again once I start putting this thing together, and inevitably run into some sort of issue lol.


As long as all the RAM is the same brand/specs, you "should" be OK.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Here's the new case. Hope it comes soon, I have everything else here and just want to put it all together now 

Amazon.com : NZXT PHANTOM ATX Full Tower Case, White PHAN-001WT : Desktop Computer Shell Cases : Electronics


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

That looks like it should do. You'll need long SATA cables though. It's unlikely you'll be able to use the primary wire routes as they'll be entirely underneath the board, and it'll butt right up to the rear of the 5.25" bays probably leaving no room to run them out there.

Make sure not to put anything in the bay in front of the CPU0 VRM heatsink, or it won't have enough airflow through it.

Also, if you're going to set up RAID use the SAS ports. The Nvidia SATA RAID is pretty crappy, and rebuilding or recovering an array is a pain (and it'll sometimes drop disks out of an array even when they're fine). The LSI chipset, on the other hand, is made by a real RAID vendor and works just as it's supposed to.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Okay, I finally got the case, and I started to put everything together last night. The power supply went in like a breeze, the motherboard was a little trickier. The dimensions were correct, but there were standoffs preinstalled on the motherboard that I had to take off. Apparently with the HP XW9400 case, the standoffs stay on the motherboard, and you slide it into the case, where they click and lock into place. So I had to take them off, install the standoffs that came with the case, and then I thought I was good to go, but I was wrong lol. Underneath each processor, on the bottom of the motherboard, there is a little cage I guess you could call it, which is about 1/3 of an inch in depth. The one "cage" was lifting the motherboard too high above the case for me to screw the standoffs down in. I ended up removing it, and securing the processor to the mobo with three screws and three nuts.

Also, my motherboard came with two CPUs already installed. So I have four CPUs altogether now, as I ordered two as well. Do you think it would be safe to leave the CPUs in the motherboard that are in there now? I know CPUs rarely go bad, so that's what I was thinking of doing.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

By "cages" do you mean the CPU mounting plates? There should be enough room for them in any case, since they are the same depth as standard-length motherboard standoffs. It's a bad idea to install a board without them, since they're designed to stiffen the PCB around the CPU in order to keep the weight of the heatsink from warping the board.

Could you post a picture of them? The processor mount should only have two screws, one on each side. If I can see exactly what you're talking about I can give better advice regarding making sure the CPUs are installed securely and not as likely to damage the board.

If the CPUs installed are the same as the ones you bought or faster, you may just want to leave them on. Once you boot the machine you can find out what they are by looking at the System Information section in the first tab of the BIOS.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Yes, the CPU mounting plates, sorry I wasn't sure what the proper term for them was lol. There is a picture of them here...it is the third picture on the page.
HP Workstation XW9400 AMD Dual-Socket S1207 Motherboard System Board 442030-001

I ended up putting the mounting plate back on like it is supposed to be. I realized I needed to in order to screw the heat sink on haha. I should have realized that before I took it off, but when you're putting things together late at night, sometimes the obvious evades you heh.

The way the case is (not completely flat in the area where the second cpu is located), the one cpu mounting plate was touching the case and lifting the motherboard too high for me to properly screw in all the standoffs. I remedied this by cutting out the small portion of the case where the mounting bracket was touching the case. I hope this doesn't cause board warping...I have all stand offs in, so hopefully that will properly support/secure the motherboard enough. Do you think it will be okay, or did I make an UH OH :O??


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

By the way, when I say I cut a piece of the case out, I'm not referring to the outside cover that you can take on and off, but to the piece inside of that, which the motherboard sits on.

So don't think that there is now a gaping hole in the case which outside air is going to come in from lol.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*



tim19889 said:


> the piece inside of that, which the motherboard sits on.


That's the Motherboard Tray.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Thanks Tyree, so do you see an issue with the CPU retention plates not physically touching the motherboard tray? If so, what options do I have at this point?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

You've chosen to use a lot of components that I am not familiar with so I can't be of any assistance.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

No problem, I understand. From what I'm reading on other forums though, it seems like the CPU retention plates are actually SUPPOSED to NOT touch the motherboard tray.

Solutions/Opinions : CPU cooler backplace touches chassis [Archive] - AnandTech Forums

If that's the case, I guess I'm fine the way it is.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Correct. The retention plates, if they are metal, could cause a short from the Mobo to the case.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

The retention plates shouldn't touch the motherboard tray because of board warping issues, not because of potential shorts. The mounting plates interconnect with the ground plane on the board (which in turn is connected to the case through the motherboard mounts), so if they were going to short anything out it would happen the instant power was applied to the board even were it not installed in a case. All metal components in electronics should be grounded, otherwise they present a fire hazard from uncontrolled, unprotected short circuits.

There shouldn't be any issues with warping by taking a small section of the motherboard tray out.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Okay, I have pretty much everything set up now! The only thing left to do is install one 200mm fan directly above the memory once it arrives. I had to order an extra one. And I also am waiting for two of my three 750GB hard drives to show up, so I can set up a RAID5 array on this thing. I am having one "issue" however. When I try to boot up with all of the memory in 8x 4GB sticks, the computer powers on, fans spin, and then it shuts off. It does the same thing one more time, and then it shuts off altogether. I'm thinking it has to do with the RAM timings in BIOS which I am going to look into adjusting now. Another thing I think it COULD be, is that since the fan above the memory isn't detected, it's not letting me run with all the memory installed. Any alternative ideas?

Thanks


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

It shouldn't be either of those things. Have you tried booting it with a pair at a time until you've tried all the memory you have?


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Hey Fjandr, I just tested it out now, and it works fine with 20GB of memory, with 24GB, with 28GB, but once you get to 32, it's like "no, I've had enough. I'm not doing this" for some reason.

When I had 7 of 8 sticks in, I turned it on and it worked fine. I tried switching slots, so I had the last stick in a different slot each time, and it booted fine both times. I also tried a different stick in a different slot each time, so the slots seem to be fine, and the memory modules seem to be fine. Any ideas? I tried booting with all 8 sticks in, with the PCI-E graphics card unplugged from the PSU, and it still didn't boot. That eliminates insufficient power as a suspect.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

That's weird; I've never seen one of these boards do that. If they don't boot it's almost always a problem with one of the modules.

Try filling just the CPU0 memory bank and see if it'll boot.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Boots fine with CPU0 memory bank filled, and CPU1 memory bank with one empty slot. Works vice versa as well. This is really weird :/


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

That is really weird. I'm going to have to ponder on this one a bit.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Yeah same here. I'm going to go to sleep now and try to figure it out tomorrow. It's too late for me to think properly anymore lol. The only ideas I have right now are...

1. Flashing BIOS to latest version.

2. Adjusting RAM voltage. There is no option in the current BIOS setup, so I would need to flash it. I'm not even certain if the latest BIOS version would let you adjust it either though...


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

The HP BIOSes don't have those options. You could get a Tyan S2915-E BIOS chip if your board has a socketed BIOS (the boards are identical except for a couple cosmetic changes), but I don't think that would solve the current issue. I wouldn't suggest trying to flash to a Tyan BIOS yourself though, since you can't disable the boot block lockout without physically jumpering contacts on the board itself; the boot block write jumper doesn't actually function on the HP version of the board.

What BIOS version does the board currently have? If it's older, it may be advisable to flash it to the newest HP BIOS anyway in order to get support for all available Opteron processors.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

I believe it is version 04.03. So I guess I'm just stuck with running 28GB of RAM until I can figure this out...which, realistically, I probably won't use more than that, but still, I would like to figure it out and get the full 32GB working. 

Do you think it would be worth posting a new thread in the Memory section of the forum about this?


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Probably won't help much, but don't let that stop you. :smile:

4.03 is the latest BIOS.

That really is very strange. You might try clearing the BIOS as well. Probably won't fix it, but I'm completely at a loss as to what may be causing the problem.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Well that makes two of us. I tried resetting the BIOS. No love.


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## tim19889 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Hi all, just wanted to quick update you and let you know the machine has been up up and running perfectly now for a few weeks. Once I got sufficient power to the memory, all was well. I just played COD: Modern Warfare 2 on it last night, with video settings set to the highest, and it runs perfectly without a hitch. I'm in the process of installing Server 2012 now and some Windows 8 machines (would've gone with Windows 7, but the trial for that is not available anymore  ) to set up a lab with and study for the MS 70-410 Server 2012 certification.

Thanks for all your help with this build everyone! Especially you Fjander.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: VM Hosting / Gaming Desktop Build*

Glad it finally worked out, thanks for posting back, good luck.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

Glad to hear it's working well for you.


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## Masterchiefxx17 (Feb 27, 2010)

Enjoy your VMs!


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