# Computer dropped from Workgroup



## WaterSkiLake (May 15, 2008)

I have 4 computers running XP professional & 1 running Vista premium on a wired LAN. Each computer can transfer & see shared files from all others using mapped drives or shortcuts with a full path defined. 

Four of the five computers show up on all computers in the 'workgroup'. The 5th will only show up when the network wizard is rerun on the 5th computer and the 5th computer is restarted. But after about an hour the 5th computer will not be listed under the 'workgroup' on any of the other 4. However, even then files can still be transfered to and from the 5th computer via a mapped drive or shoutcuts, even through the 5th computer is no longer listed under 'workgroup'. 

What is the root cause? And how is it fixed?

Thanks


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## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

WaterSkiLake,

Please clarify that the "5th" computer you're having trouble with is the one with Vista installed - right? Is this PC a laptop? If so, you might have power saving features enabled on the network card that are causing the PC to power-down the network adapter after a period of inactivity. This could cause that PC to lease a new IP address from the router - making it disappear from the other PCs until the Vista machine re-advertises it's name via netbios.

Make sure the usernames/passwords on the Vista PC are the same as those on the XP PCs. Having mismatched usernames/passwords in a workgroup environment can cause passthru authentication problems.

Make sure that any firewall or Internet security software on ALL PCs has Windows Filesharing enabled and you've opened up the local network (i.e. 192.168.0.0 - or whatever address scheme your LAN has) is opened on ALL PC firewalls.

Try all of this and report back.

- John


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## WaterSkiLake (May 15, 2008)

John,

Thanks very much for your interest. Taking your questions in order:

The 5th computer is actually XP. The Vista machine *always* draws the network topology using Network and Sharing Center/View Map (you have to have Linked Layer Topology WindowsXP-KB922120-v5-x86-ENU.exe installed on each XP machine). 

All computers are desktops, and I verified that the NIC's stay on if a computer sleeps. 

None of the machines (XP or Vista) have user account passwords, 2 have user account names the other 3 don't. The Vista machine has no password either. Are you suggesting that each machine should have the same account user name and same PW? That seems odd. 

For firewalls, the Windows firewalls are all off on all machines. I have a hardware firewall at the WAN interface. Two XP machines have McAfee virus, the other two XP's and Vista have Norton. All are configure to open the appropriate LAN addresses, see below for proof. The target machine (the one that goes missing from workgroup on all machines) has McAfee. 

Other than the UN/PW's 2 paragraphs up, I have tried all you suggest. 

The confusing thing is that the target computer (the one dropped from workgroup) can *always* have files pulled from it via short cuts with full paths ("\\computername\username\directory\....") or by mapping a drive. 

What you *can't* do is drill down (My Network Places, Entire Network, Microsoft Windows Network, Workgroup, ...) and find that computer in the workgroup on the other computers. It is missing unless you run the Network Setup Wizard on the missing computer (again) and restart (again), and then it only shows in workgroup in the other computers for a few minutes. (Re booting the router and all computers does not change things.)

All the experts I've talked to say, that have seen this don't know a fix, and I and them would love to understand what is happening. 

By the way, the reason I care (other than geek curiosity) is that my back-up program NovaStor requires drilling down My Network Places to transfer files. It does not support mapped drives. 

If this message is already posted, sorry for the repeat, I posted this morning, but did not see it listed. 

Thanks
WaterSkiLake


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## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

WaterSkiLake,

Windows shares in a Workgroup environment use what's called "passthru authentication" - meaning that when you try to connect to a share on another PC, it sends the username/password that your're currently logged into to the other PC. That said, if the username/password doesn't match, it will usually pop up a screen asking for a valid username/password on the machine you're trying to connect to. That said, it's just easier to have the same usernames/passwords configured on ALL PCs in a workgroup - especially if you want to establish persistent connections such as shared printers or folders.

I'm thinking McAfee is the issue on the Vista machine. Open up the McAfee Security Center ("M" icon in the tray), click the Configure button on the lower left side of the screen, Click "Internet & Network on the left", then click "Advanced" button on the right (in the Firewall category), click on System Services on the left, Check "Remote desktop..", "Network Time Service.." and "Windows File Sharing". Go to "Trusted/Banned IPs" on the left and add your entire LAN address (example 192.168.x.0 to 192.168.x.255) or whatever your LAN address is.

Try this and see if you'e able to browse the network and see the other Workgroup PCs.

- John


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## WaterSkiLake (May 15, 2008)

John, 

The computer named Norm is still being dropped from workgroup. It is connected to a Linksys switch with *nothing* else plugged into the switch. On a restart the computer name (Norm) shows in workgroup, and about 18 minutes later it's gone! Any ideas.......thx

PS Just to be complete, there is another device named Npi956e08 that *aways* shows in workgroup, its properties show it as an HP printer which is not in the entire office.


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## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

WaterSkiLake,

I'm assuming the computer named "Norm" is the Vista PC you're having problems with. When you say this is the ONLY PC plugged into the Linksys switch - I guess I'm confused. Wouldn't you WANT to plug the other 4 working Workgroup PCs into that SAME switch to try to communicate with the Vista PC "Norm" via the workgroup?

Please run an IPCONFIG of the "NORM" Vista PC as well as one of the working XP machines on the workgroup. I'd like to compare the IP config, node type, etc. to see if there's anything obvious going wrong. Can you PING between the "Norm" PC and other PCs? Can you Ping between the other working PCs by IP and/or name?

As far as the "Npi956e08" device that's showing up - that looks like an HP JetDirect print server or HP Printer with a built-in network adapter. Do you have any HP Printers attached to your network? Open up your Windows Explorer on your of your working XP PCs and try going to \\Npi956e08 If that doesn't work, open up a command prompt and type:

PING Npi956e08

Does that resolve to an IP address?

Try opening up IE and go to:

http:\\Npi956e08

or

http:\\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx

where xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx is the ip address that the ping to "Npi956e08" resolved to.

- John


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## WaterSkiLake (May 15, 2008)

John,

Npi956e08, I'm ashamed to say, is an HP printer.  I removed it from the network. 

Four CPU's on net now: Nancy, Norm, Barbara, Spare

Nancy is XP-P; Pings Norm and Spare ok; Time out when ping Barbara

Norm is XP-P; Pings Nancy & Spare ok; Time out when ping Barbara

Barbara is XP-P; Pings all ok 

Spare is Vista-H; Pings Norm & Nancy ok; Time out when ping Barbara

All IP addresses look correct 192.168.1.4, 5, 3 & 2 respectively.

Computer Norm will show up in all computers Workgroups after it boots, but 15 - 30 minutes later it disappears from the Workgroup in *all* computers, including itself. However, files can still be transferred from & to Norm via full path shortcuts (\\Norm\....) from all computers. 

I very much appreciate your help, I would love to understand and solve the problem.

WateSkiLake


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## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

WaterSkiLake,

Correct me if I'm wrong - but the problem PC is "NORM" as you can't see it via browsing after a period of time. Also - NORM is running XP (Hopefully SP2) - right?

Here are things that could be causing this:

1) Open up the network settings on NORM, right click on the active local area network connection, click Properties, click TCP/IP, click Properties, Click Advanced, Click on the "WINS" tab, Click on the "Default" "Use Netbios settings over DHCP..." (should be the same as all the other PCs)

2) If you have Windows Firewall or 3rd party Internet Security or firewall software, configure the Firewall to ALLOW Windows File Sharing and Netbios.

3) Open Control Panel, Administrative Tools, Services. Locate the "Computer Browser Service" Start this service and make sure it's set to AUTOMATIC. You may want to compare the running/enabled services on a "working" XP PC on your network and enable/start any services on NORM that aren't enabled or configured as automatic compared to the "working" PC.

Restart NORM and see if the problem still exists.

- John


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## WaterSkiLake (May 15, 2008)

John,

Thx, my responses in your text. Fighting other problems for the next few days, my not be able to respond again for few days. 

#Correct me if I'm wrong - but the problem PC is "NORM" as you can't see it via browsing after a period of time. Also - NORM is running XP (Hopefully SP2) - right?

Yes, Norm runing XP, can always see it via shortcuts, appears in workgroup after reboot then disappears in ~20 minutes. 

#Here are things that could be causing this:

#1) Open up the network settings on NORM, right click on the active -local area network connection, click Properties, click TCP/IP, click -Properties, Click Advanced, Click on the "WINS" tab, Click on the -"Default" "Use Netbios settings over DHCP..." (should be the same -as all the other PCs)

All XP computers "use Netbios setting over DHCP..."
The one Vista has "use Netios setting over DHCP..." on protocol TCP/IPV4. There is no TCP/IP. 

#2) If you have Windows Firewall or 3rd party Internet Security or firewall software, configure the Firewall to ALLOW Windows File Sharing and Netbios.

All firewalls look ok, and are likely not the problem as I can always see files using shortcuts. 

#3) Open Control Panel, Administrative Tools, Services. Locate the "Computer Browser Service" Start this service and make sure it's set to AUTOMATIC. You may want to compare the running/enabled services on a "working" XP PC on your network and enable/start any services on NORM that aren't enabled or configured as -automatic compared to the "working" PC.

I has checked this before and now rechecked, all computers XP and the one Vista have "Computer Browser" started and on automatic. 

#Restart NORM and see if the problem still exists.

However, the problem still exists. Boot Norm, Norm shows up in all workgroups, then after about 20 minutes it's gone from all worksgroups. 

I saw one interesting thing, Norm has is "Services", "Remote Connection Manager" off, all other computes have it on.

Ideas, thx.

# John


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## WaterSkiLake (May 15, 2008)

John,

In summary. The XP computer named Norm if not connected to any network device and booted will *forever* show Norm in its "workgroup". 

Then if Norm is connected to a network switch, (even with nothing else connected to the switch), then about 20 minutes later when the "workgroup" is again opened, Norm will no longer be listed. 

The conclusion is that the entire problem with computer Norm is do to itself and its network interface, that is, the problem is not caused by another computer. 

Sure appreciated your help 

Thanks,
WaterSkiLake


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## debrarhogan (Jun 1, 2008)

John,

I have the exact same problem as WaterSkiLake! I have three computers networked together. Two are running Vista and the third is XP.

The XP machine sees itself and is part of my MSHOME workgroup. The Vista machines can see it and also each other. After about 20 minutes the XP machine disappears. It is no longer part of the workgroup but it can still see the Vista machines. The Vista machines can see each other ok.

My conclusion is just like WaterSkiLake... the problem has to do with the XP machine and its network interface with my router. The problem is not caused by any other computer.

HELP!!

Thanks
Debra Hogan


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## WaterSkiLake (May 15, 2008)

Debra & Someone With the Solution!, 

I agree, the XP machine *is* the culprit. I can run the XP machine without the LAN cable plugged in and the XP machine will ALWAYS show in the workgroup on the XP machine. 

Then, if I plug the LAN CAT-5 cable into the XP machine with only a Linksys switch on the other end (and nothing else plugged into the switch - no router, no other computers), 20 minutes later the XP machine is missing from workgroup on the XP machine. 

HELP someone please.

WaterSkiLake


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