# Needs help buying a new Dell Computer with WIN 10 PRO version,.....



## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

In continuation to my previous thread - below linked, the posts 123 to 128 in it,
I here by continue it,....... as, I need help for buying a good computer.

https://www.techsupportforum.com/fo...-for-my-windows-xp-sp-3-system-1211753-7.html
( Pl. refer to the posts 123 to 128 in it, as a background discussion.) 

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After surfing and hunt-searching sites, I came to conclusion of somewhat this sort of computer, full-filling my needs, and 
the only problem is, I wanna and love to have *WIN 10 PRO *and these are coming with Home edition and Dell's outlet won't allow you to change things ( unless you buy from Dell's brand new PC buying department ) . Also it does not have Blu ray player to watch HD DVDs,.. 


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*XPS 8930*

Tech Specs

Processor: Intel Core 8th Generation i7-8700 Processor (6 Core,3.20GHz,12MB Cache,65W)

Windows 10 Home 64bit English

1TB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)

8GB Single Channel DDR4 at 2666MHz (1x8GB)

Tray load DVD Drive (Reads and Writes to DVD/CD)

NVIDIA GeForce GT1030 with 2GB GDDR5

Dell Outlet XPS 8930

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It's price after all 14 percent of other net discounts fall smwhat like *619 dollars,..*

Link here : Dell Official Outlet Refurbished & Overstock Laptops, Desktops & Monitors


Could you make any comments /suggestions on this buy ,.. any better deals suggestion,.. to do / not to do,...

especially help, about how I will be *changing it to WIN 10 PRO to revise the system,.....*

Also, from where the easiest way to install basic Office packages *at least latest MS word *that I need,.... ( where and how to get it,.... ) 

and other comments or suggestions about some particular features that this system seems to have/do not have which should be considered as drawback,.. yada yada,..

Feel free for any advice, suggestion, comments, teed-bits,.. other good location to buy almost of a same category equivalent computer,.. etc... 

Kindly extend yrs, most honest suggestions, knowledgeable view points,... that I am missing here,....

Thanks all,....

*P.S. :* It's a refurbished computer,.. and my budget is around *650 bucks*,.. [ Bodily scratch and dent will be fine for me, to lower down the price ] 
Any Clue on any special 4th of July deals anywhere, any suggestion ? 


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Since Dell is always having sales on their unused units, be patient and you might be able to get what you want at the price you want to pay.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

I talked to them already with many diff. pl in their New CPU selling dept, and price is very higher 
especially when you are insisting of 8930, 8th Gen, and i7 and such sort of status which is latest and greatest....

This computer had just like new, 1 yr similar warranties,..

I am more concerned about WIN 10 PRO and MS Word at least ( rest office thingies i use very little ) , from where to and how to get to and install,...


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Many people have been happy with free alternatives to MS Office such as: https://www.openoffice.org/download/ or https://www.libreoffice.org/
They are mostly interchangeable with MS Office, although a few features might be missing. I believe Dell discontinued their "Office Starter".


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Dell is giving only * 1 *or 3 months at the most,... free the office ( provided, you buy a new computer ) and then it expires,... unless you buy the license,...

I guess.... I need to find some lower version sold on e-bay or amazon,.. etc.. or some learning /experiment / testing , free versions,...


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## Tburkeinvermont (Jun 29, 2018)

I would go with XPS only if you are gaming or doing presentations. You can save money with a latitude and obtain similar speeds. I suggest if you go with an XPS—check out alternatives as suggested by Corday. Not sure why you think you need win 10pro. Home does a great job.


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

As stated, You only need Windows Pro edition if you are connecting it to a Business Environment and need to manage that: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compare


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

First of all, thx all for yrs kind cooperation and sincere advice,…. ( ^^ that link was great to see comparison ) 

I know, I never play heavy games or thick graphics presentation,. etc,.. but I wanna to have also a better computer which should not immediate go obsolete after 2-3 yrs ,.. and also I have only used PRO versions for Win 97, win2000, to win XP PRO Sp 3,.., as I was also doing some CAD engineering application work,…. Dealing with many dense AutoCAD drawings for industries and companies,… so somehow to me, Home version sounds likes a candy-cane for kids, ( I may be wrong.. ) who just do the music and video and forums surfing and e-mail openings stuff on PC,… as I also may eventually need to install AutoCAD enhanced third party engineering application packages of more graphics drawings and learn and open those professional CAD drawings,.. … etc..

.


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## Tburkeinvermont (Jun 29, 2018)

Then I would suggest you buy a dell latitude On their outlet now. They even have a latitude model 11 or 15 with your win pro. $270 ish. Those models are dependable and will run for years. I have been working for years with hundreds of them. (We currently have 1200 of them in our school district). 

You have been given outstanding advice from the other members here..(skip win pro/alternatives to office) but you still keep posting the same requirements. 

I do not believe I have anything more to offer. Good luck on your buy.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

I surfed the Outlet web site. Never heard of latitude models ( except in laptops ) . Are we talking about optiplex / inspiron ? 
I want to buy desktop, sir.


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## Tburkeinvermont (Jun 29, 2018)

Desktop —a dell optiplex 3040, $303. It includes 3 yrs of in home warranty service. Inspirons cost more, have only 1yr warranty and in my experience working for dell providing warranty service, Inspiron desktops were more prone to mobo replacements. Precision is overkill as a powerful work station and is very expensive as well as XPS.


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## jenae (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi, why not go to your local computer store and get them to quote you on a new machine, they will build for you, to your specifications, we build all our own units, always better and much cheaper, shop around for the best deal.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

I guess,… Dell is known for its quality, warranty, services and also using all quality third party products inside too. Its motherboard, chassis and inside arrangement remains great. My son had built a generic computer like you say , a cheaper one, but the unknown make , cheapo motherboard had just burnt in 1 month. 

I am looking into these products at Wal-Mart and perhaps may choose one among from them,… Any suggestion? ( Most of them have WIN 10 PRO ) 
https://www.walmart.com/search/?cat...lmart.com&query=Dell+9010#searchProductResult
The said Models are also little more cheaper on e-bay, 


How about this one,… I intend to buy it and also Walmart will let you make decision for 90 days, whether to keep it permanently, till you make up your mind,.. 
https://www.walmart.com/search/?cat...lmart.com&query=Dell+9010#searchProductResult


On e-bay, I saw little refurbished dell ( Most latest ) top of the line XPS tower of 8930 model, and i7, 8700, 8th gen computers,….6 Cores ,.. bidding and been sold around 500 and below,… ! amazing,..!
Here : https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...TitleDesc=0&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_odkw=Dell+8930


………………….


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

.
This says it all: 


> My son had built a generic computer like you say , a cheaper one, but the unknown make , cheapo motherboard had just burnt in 1 month.


That has nothing to do with a custom computer made by a reputable builder at all because you can usually help choose the components if you would like or at least have input into build.
For $600 if I built your computer it would not have a laptop dvd burner, and would not have a really cheap video card like Dell is using (the onboard cpu video is higher quality) and would utilize dual channel ram for certain and all the components would have 3 year warranty except the memory which would be lifetime warranty and for certain I would not use the low end power supply by Delta that Dell uses. Oh and for tech support I wouldn't reinstall Windows losing all your files like Dell does if you sneeze on the tower either, that is not good tech support.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Are you talking about very private, mini guys ( around the corner ) who can build such custom computers,.. or you are talking about big guys like Best buys and such who also does this thing and btw,.. Dell’s new computer dept can also do this for you and you can build, per whatever you want. 

I still doubt, it would be any cheaper, than….. some special coupon, discount and deals that you can get and buy from Dell or so,…

Secondly, let say,… even if you put all the best part – say real good manufacturer’s DVD players, vdo cards and sound cards and such let say using the makes of WDC, NVIDIA and such,.. but still the overall wire circuits, the motherboard be of poor and inferior qlty and of generic make, then also this boat will not float…

To give you an example,… let say after using coupons, codes and public holiday sales offer,.. if I can get this PC for 583 dollars ( I was told a day ago ) , I doubt that making it by yourself by buying parts individually and assembling them will cost you any cheaper.

Dell Official Outlet Refurbished & Overstock Laptops, Desktops & Monitors

This refurbished with them will be around 270 dollars : ( w/ all discounts ) Dell Official Outlet Refurbished & Overstock Laptops, Desktops & Monitors

It’s like buying a wheat loaf of bread for 88 cents from ShopRite,…. And there is no way that it can be any cheaper,.. if you make at home,.. Considering yr own material, labor, electricity, cooking, cleaning,


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

The custom suggestion wasn't about cheaper really just better quality.
Look at our custom build page because any of those at thew $600 cost is so much more quality than you will see from Dell at the same price.
https://www.techsupportforum.com/fo...e-teams-recommended-builds-2018-a-668661.html


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Tburkeinvermont said:


> Desktop —a dell optiplex 3040, $303. It includes 3 yrs of in home warranty service. Inspirons cost more, have only 1yr warranty and in my experience working for dell providing warranty service, Inspiron desktops were more prone to mobo replacements. Precision is overkill as a powerful work station and is very expensive as well as XPS.



I do not play games, or any dense graphic presentations or so,… or any such applications, that I use,… 

What is your opinion on no of cores,… 
Quad v/s.. 6 cores and 8 cores are faster ? How far diff. it makes in speed,..

What diff it makes between i3 i5 i7 etc,….for the speed point of view,…

What diff it makes among generation,……..4th, 5th 7th,..8th,….

What is your opinion about,… facility for the solid state drive? Do you think, it’s a wise idea to buy the PC carrying that feature, so it won’t obsolete soon ? 

How far the amount of memory and your internet speed also affects your web page opening ? ( Mine is 50/50 with Verizon ) 

My EXTREME concern is about the speed. The surfing pages and response from the computer should be as fast as possible,.. whenever it takes time and in any area, it buffers,… time taking between changing pages / moving mouse/ holding on video / changing url pages,… and if time taken,…that hurts a lot. 

What is your opinion on these,… ( net cost : 360.45 ) – Refurbished by Dell 
Dell Official Outlet Refurbished Laptops, Desktops, Servers & Monitors 


What is your opinion on these,… ( net cost : 276.21 ) – Refurbished by Dell
Dell Official Outlet Refurbished & Overstock Laptops, Desktops & Monitors


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I certainly would not take the i3 processor unit you need to stick to i5 and i7 if you care about speed and both units with 4 gb ram are way inadequate today the norm is 8 gb ram.Ssd drives give you the biggest speed bump over mechanical hard drives and though the prices have come way down they are still higher than mechanical hard drives.
As for processors more than 4 cores is a luxury as few applications can fully utilize 6 or 8 core processors yet.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

.

For vdo card, which be better ? NVIDIA or AMD ?
– What be the min reqd. specification,.. as I watch lots of vdos, movies, netflix, TV on my monitor,… ( have 7” Dell monitor screen ) and such,.. 

I generally wish, that they put less amount of memory ( though it should have more expansion slots capacity ) and even less size of the HDD drive,… ( I do not need 2TB, or even 1TB HDD,.. if they put 500GB,.. fine. I may put later, a higher size in secondary slot. ) _ As I can buy later, with more efficient prices. 

How about the SSD slots, how do they work ?
For example, if they give initially with 300GB ssd,…. Does it mean,… the max capacity holding there be 300GB ssd only? If later,…. the ssd gets more cheaper,….. and of higher capacity be easily available,.. , can it handle ? 

Is that true, that the new vdo cards are already coming with 3 outlets so that it can handle up to 3 monitors and you do not need to buy specifically a dual outlet vdo card, if you are used to run 2 monitors,… 

What should be keep in mind to get a good sound card and speaker system,.. what min, standard you should look for ? 

How about, USB slots for different 2.0, 3.0 , 4.0 etc you should insist for ?

Should you also look for a WiFi feature that it can rum without the Ethernet wire connected, if needed?

What is a form factor and those Micro size CPUs which also carry, small size of internal HDDs in it,…. What’s yr opinion about those micro CPUs? 

Is there any feature available yet, that in future you can increase the processor speed and not necessarily have to have discard the CPU, for a new computer ?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

OK I'll try my best. Nvidia vs ATi well it depends on the specific card though generally Nvidia thought to be better again it depends what card and how much memory it has.
No you need more system memory and many believe you can never have enough but if you can do with 500 gb hard drive then why not consider ssd drive as today you can get a 500 Gb Ssd drive for same price as 2 Tb hard drive and they are way faster and last a lot longer..
Ssd drives are all 2.5 drives which fit the same connections as a regular sata hard drive. The M2 drive is a different connection but only newer boards have those.
While newer video cards have 3 ports does not mean you can use all at same time.
Most boards take a few Usb 2.0 and then a few 3.0 usb ports and they are backwards compatible so any usb unit will work in any usb port.
For most purposes today onboard sound cards are as good as added cards as they are much improved. Best speaker sets have at least a sun woofer and at least 2 speakers. Good brands are Altec Lansing, Bose and Klipsch.
Wifi vs wired is a matter of opinion and for me the wired connection is always better and more stable and less subject to outside interference, wifi if you have to.
The only way to increase cpu speed has potential risk and that is overclocking. Safest oc is with cpu planning to allow it such as "K" series Intel cpus and most Amd Ryzen but using software to oc is far more risky and to be avoided and of course voids most warranties.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks for the above info and I appreciate it. I did not know few. 

I am of the opinion ( correct me, if I am wrong ) … I prefer the system on a small HDD size drive ( though, bad part is if you choose say 250 or 500 GB size, it also has other low rpm and other factors which are also low, and puts you back,…hence I have bought 3-4 , extra 1TB internal HDDs,.. to mirror copy the system every 3+ mos to be safe,.. ) 

and then on a big size secondary ( storage drive ) you keep all pictures, videos, data, imp documents, even stored bookmarks and all those ) so, the PC runs faster, with less load on system files drive,. it cleans and defrag the main drive faster and runs faster having less junk on it,.. and also…. In case of emergency,.. any crash/virus/rainy unexpected failure,… you have all yr data on a diff drive, uncorrupted and un-lost so you can have more safety. And you have no hesitation to reformat / rebuild the original primary drive , if circumstances prevails, by only taking care of bookmarks and few other stuff,.. 

I have bought USI – 2535Clu3 piece - a docking station piece ( 28 dollars around ) which doe s good mirror copy job and also works as a docking station for all internal HDD sand also IDE drives. Also I have bought ,… a 6TB external drive to store-copy all hugh video files, pics, imp mails, docus,.. etc.. 


1.	Are you saying that, on any SATA computer you can simply buy a ssd drive and place and fit in place of mechanical drive,.. or the motherboard must have provision made for that, then and then it will take ! Do they have exactly same connection wire thingies ? 

2. Dell guys had told me, that inner video cards you can simply plug all 3 monitor simultaneously, as the card has one slot for each HDMI, DVI and that other advanced port ,. And all 3 monitors can work simultaneously and you do not need to buy a double outlet special vdo card. Was he wrong ?

3. What do you think about first computer here of 460.00 value ( net price will come to about 370 dollars ) . Can you comment on Pro and Cons arena. Dell Official Outlet Refurbished & Overstock Laptops, Desktops & Monitors

Or,.. ( if link does not work ) go to outlet.dell.com and select Model as 8930.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Exact same comments on $460 i3 desktop....it's a dog....if you care about speed as you said you do then no i3 please, no single channel ram, and no laptop Dvd-rw please.
Yes you can plug any Ssd drive in the place of any laptop or desktop hard drive
Most likely you can run only 1 hdmi card and 1 dvi video card on pci-e video card and with a Delta psu in that unit without even looking at specifics you cannot run 3 monitors without changing to a quality psu, no matter what your video card is.
You can select any rpm for any sata or ide hard drive and the size has absolutely nothing to do with rpm. You can buy a 160 gb 7200 rpm sata drive or even an 80 gb 7200 rpm hard drive or a 4200 rpm 1 Tb laptop hard drive if you want to. 
I do agree with small hard drive for Windows and programs where you can use a 128 gb ssd or 240 Gb Ssd for those and then a 1 Tb for files and storage. I actually do that on my two desktops.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

So, as per you,.. low number of “I” ( i3),… and higher number of version of generation ( 7th / 8th ) and 8700,.. with 8930 still will not pick it up the speed / can compromise the lower version of "i" . 
One dell guy had tried to explain me that few i5 are even more expensive …'coz ,.. they are still 8th generation with 8700 and 8930 technology so even better than i7 and the generation with 7700 in speed,..


What I meant by size is,… 
Say, one 160GB , a very good black HDD from WDC ( top of the line ) of its highest quality is, at 5400rpm and 2mb,….

Now to get the performance of 7400rpm and 16MB,… you must buy a higher size of at least 500GB or 1TB, b-coz many a times,…. These higher other virtues are not available in a smaller size,.. 

though a magnetic disc whether revolving at 7200 or 7400 speed, the _obvious_ performance diff. is very negligible/not noticeable,… unless for certain applications like playing games or heavy graphic presentations,....


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

True not a huge difference speed wise between 5400 and 7200 but the statement about higher size for 7200 16 meg makes no sense at all. 7200 is 7200 and whatever size drive you have that is 7200 will run 7200 rpm....and there is no difference i9n availability.
No i5 is better than any i7, that is just rubbish except there are differences between certain cpus where some older ones can outperform any newer ones for a variety of reasons. It is untrue that an 8th Gen i5 is faster than a 7700 i7 but I can't imagine why any sane person would even try to make such a comparison.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

The Dell guy is a salesman. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Yes typical as the boss beats it into their heads push whatever we have the most of!


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

> the statement about higher size for 7200 16 meg makes no sense at all. 7200 is 7200 and whatever size drive you have that is 7200 will run 7200 rpm....and there is no difference i9n availability.


 All he meant to say, that Let say ther's a Maxtor of 200GB, SATA 3.0 GB and runs at 5400rpm,..... an another Maxtor of 500 GB drive with 5400 rpm would be performance wise better as its GB will be higher ( instead of 3.0 it may have 8.0 ) ...... and they can not provide higher GB in that low capacity 200GB drive



> No i5 is better than any i7, that is just rubbish except there are differences between certain cpus where some older ones can outperform any newer ones for a variety of reasons. It is untrue that an 8th Gen i5 is faster than a 7700 i7 but I can't imagine why any sane person would even try to make such a comparison.


I had asked for my own curiosity reason, as at Outlet center,.. for few,.. they were showing prices higher than i7, despite of it being a i5, and their reply was, b-coz its generation no is higher - say, i7 with 6th generation v/s i5 of 8th generation and 8700,... smthg like that.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

I guess these two optiplex seems to be of adequate requirement and you are not over-killing it seems,… ( though you can add more memory later by your own ) 

Dell Official Outlet Refurbished Laptops, Desktops, Servers & Monitors
) net price around - 360 dollar 


Dell Official Outlet Refurbished Laptops, Desktops, Servers & Monitors
net price around - 473 dollar


If link is not working, 

Go to outlet.dell.com
Select “Outlet for work”
Select Model as “ Optiplex 7040 ” 
The first two PCs.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

OK some may have higher price because of generation of cpu but there really isn't a big difference in any of those prices on different cpus.

The statement you made about the 200 gb and 500 gb differences is completely false I'm afraid.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

The second one would be passable if it wasn't a small form factor.
Slimlines and small form factors have awful power supplies which won't last long and are very expensive to replace. For me I would never recommend any of those regardless of brand.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Rich-M said:


> OK some may have higher price because of generation of cpu but there really isn't a big difference in any of those prices on different cpus.
> 
> The statement you made about the 200 gb and 500 gb differences is completely false I'm afraid.


 No, I still remember.... long ago I had a detailed discussion with Seagate and WDC tech guys - both, and they had also mentioned that,... 

let say,.. if there R' two HDDs ( different make or same make with diff model nos ) are
of exactly 250GB and 5400 rpms,.. then there still remains other 1-2 factors also which should also be compared, to find out which one is better.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Other question is,.. let say you bought a top of the line almost very new latest computer and it has a 1TB HDD,…. And now, eventually you would buy 250GB SSD, ( to set as yr primary drive ) can you establish the system on it,.. 
Does Dell provides org CDs of the Win 10 Pro / Home version? 

Last time ( 4 yrs ago,for a laptop,,. I had bought from them a brand new ) they had not send me any cds at all… ) 

Also, can you buy lower version of office packages ( M S Office ) from ebay / amazon ? ( I would definitely look into the links that a fellow had provided earlier for equivalent to office – though, right now I have a low versions of office of 2012 or 2014 edition versions with lic. Nos,… so it works )


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Ok,.. so here is what I concluded ( correct me, please ) 
to have a fast response, a fast opening page, ( certain milli seconds of faster response computer ) a high speed computer,… 
which will run videos, TV, netflix , video clips, surfing between the pages,… opening more tab simultaneously, working on two screens simultaneously, without buffering and with instant n’ spontaneous response,… ( for a Dell computer ) 
============================

*number of “i” should be higher…. ( i5, i7 ) 
*It should be having a higher version like ….. 6700, 7700, 8700
*It should have more memory sticks 8gb, 16 gb, 32gb and as high as possible and affordable,..
*It should have higher windows version like Win 10
*It should have SSD drive if possible,.. and if SATA then rpm features should be higher,. 
*It should have less storage kind of junk data/files and more empty room,.. where the operating system lies,..… 
*It should have fast internet speed,…50,75, 100,300, 1gb or such,.. 
*It should have more nos. of cores , possible…. 6 cores, octa cores more preferable,.. 
* Video card should also have more nos of GB...
* Avoid running WiFis and stay with wired Ethernet, mouse, keyboards,.. etc 

….. and rest will be left to the proper maintenance … like… disc cleaning, defragment, script-control, ad blocks, virus-control, internet security, and other cleaning of cookies, temp files,….. startup items, registry clean, system optimization, etc,.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

rakesh15 said:


> Other question is,.. let say you bought a top of the line almost very new latest computer and it has a 1TB HDD,…. And now, eventually you would buy 250GB SSD, ( to set as yr primary drive ) can you establish the system on it,..
> Does Dell provides org CDs of the Win 10 Pro / Home version?
> 
> Last time ( 4 yrs ago,for a laptop,,. I had bought from them a brand new ) they had not send me any cds at all… )
> ...


Yes you can migrate the OS to an ssd drive later easily with software.
No software dvds come with products anymore from brand name products they all have restore software on the hard drive but you really don't need those anymore as you can always download the newest install disk (called Media Creator Dvd) from Microsoft.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

rakesh15 said:


> Ok,.. so here is what I concluded ( correct me, please )
> to have a fast response, a fast opening page, ( certain milli seconds of faster response computer ) a high speed computer,…
> which will run videos, TV, netflix , video clips, surfing between the pages,… opening more tab simultaneously, working on two screens simultaneously, without buffering and with instant n’ spontaneous response,… ( for a Dell computer )
> ============================
> ...


Basically you got it right...I would rather say use wifi as a secondary resource or where you have to. I prefer to use 2 sticks of ram to 1 i.e. for 16 Gb ram use two 8 gb sticks, that way you can utilize dual channel ram where available and you will have fewer ram issues as well.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

> No software dvds come with products anymore from brand name products they all have restore software on the hard drive but you really don't need those anymore as you can always download the newest install disk (called Media Creator Dvd) from Microsoft.


 Didn’t understand this part. Why would Microsoft give you a Media creator newest install disk ( for free ) ? ( When you are a customer of Dell ) How and why ? 

Even 12+ yrs ago, for my Dell Dimension 8400, it was there in HDD all the programs to reformat the computer with original way ( factory settings ) , it came the first day, still they had provided me with all 3-4 Cds. 
I think, with the Dell CDs, you can install the system on an another Dell computer of slightly a diff model too.



> I prefer to use 2 sticks of ram to 1 i.e. for 16 Gb ram use two 8 gb sticks, that way you can utilize dual channel ram where available and you will have fewer ram issues as well.


 Some guys gave me diff opinion,... that rather buy as one stick, so by that way you have more room un-occupied for future needs, or you will have to discard the old memory if you wanna to expand the PC to its fullest capacity of memory,............... and now a days memory does not need to have to have in pairs.


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

> Why would Microsoft give you a Media creator newest install disk ( for free ) ?


 Microsoft took another page from Apple and gives their OS away for free. The catch is, you need to have a Windows Product key from a previous version of Windows to Activate Windows 10. (ie) Windows 7, or 8 etc. If you don't have a product key, then you have to buy the license, not the software. 
As for Dell Restore CD's, these are written specifically for that computer with drivers specific to that hardware. It will not let you use them on another computer with different hardware. These days, CD's became too expensive and many newer model laptops do not even have CD/DVD drives. So, they make a recovery partition that you can boot to and Reset the computer back to Factory Defaults if necessary.


> rather buy as one stick, so by that way you have more room un-occupied for future needs,


 My suggestion is to buy as much RAM as you can afford and the motherboard will support, if there are any slots left over, you can then add in the future.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

rakesh15 said:


> Didn’t understand this part. Why would Microsoft give you a Media creator newest install disk ( for free ) ? ( When you are a customer of Dell ) How and why ?
> 
> Even 12+ yrs ago, for my Dell Dimension 8400, it was there in HDD all the programs to reformat the computer with original way ( factory settings ) , it came the first day, still they had provided me with all 3-4 Cds.
> I think, with the Dell CDs, you can install the system on an another Dell computer of slightly a diff model too.
> ...


Yes that is true about the ram however in most cases if you don't match the exact ram not speed but model #, and they are discontinued everyday of the week, they likely won't work together anyway and two lower sticks put less stress on the system than 1 higher making the odds of not having ram problems greater. When a manufacturer puts in 1 stick it is always for one reason, to save* them* money and every nickel counts!

Whatever Dell would have sent you would always be out of date by the time you go to use it and the Media Creator disk is always the newest version saving you the trouble of having massive Windows updates to contend with doing a restore. And I struggle to think Microsoft really cares what Apple does because they listen to no one, but still can enjoy the ease of using this.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

> the Media Creator disk is always the newest version saving you the trouble of having massive Windows updates to contend with doing a restore. And I struggle to think Microsoft really cares what Apple does because they listen to no one, but still can enjoy the ease of using this.


 I am still puzzled about this explanation,.. could you pl. elaborate further more.

Did you mean that for windows 10,……. the MSFT do not offer updates as it’s go by ( on their Microsoft update links ) ,… but rather provides a Media Creator disk, which takes care of the all the way updates, so that,…… when you re-format to the factory settings for some reason the computer,…. You do not need to go all the way back ?

Where is that site/update/CD that you are talking about. 
Could you pl. provide more details about it, how this works? Thanks.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

The windows media creator tool will download the latest up to date version of win 10 available for you to install and you will still get updates as and when they become available as you have been used to in other versions of windows.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

joeten said:


> The windows media creator tool will download the latest up to date version of win 10 available for you to install and you will still get updates as and when they become available as you have been used to in other versions of windows.




“ The windows media creator tool “ 

So it comes in the Windows 10? ( Or,…. You download and make special CD of it, from somewhere? ) 

Will it uninstall the system that already came with the computer ( that you just newly purchased ) ,.. or ,…..will modify and update it ? ( just like it does in Windows XP with Sp2 and Sp3 and such… )


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Read here https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/15088/windows-create-installation-media
Tool page https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Here is the site and to make the disk you would use the second option "Download Tool
Now".
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Rich : Where is the link? ( missing ! ) 

Joeten: How and where do you get the Product key, if you bought Dell computer and did not buy any product from MSFT ? 

-------


Saar/s I thank all,…… and this thread and links given here by many gentlemen,… are book marked and I will definitely re-read and imply those all, ….once I got a new computer in my hand, In my previous thread also, Mr Spunk had advised me of loads of priceless tricks, techniques and information ( about Windows XP ) and that thread is also bookmarked by me, for re-visiting,… reading it over for any problems,.. and also suggesting to friends.

While, just talking to a very expert sounding….. Dell guy just now, ( while I am attempting for a new computer,.. ) he advised me of certain new things, and he suggested followings . 

* Besides i5, i7, .. etc you should more concern about the Ghz 2.3, 3.3 and that governs more than “I” number ( if you want higher speed and faster computer ) and try to get it high,… at least no lower than 2.3 / 3.2 or so,.. etc.

* SSD drives he found from his own experience just faster only at opening the WIN initially and after that no noticeable difference anywhere for other applications and normal surfing and general computer use,.. ( as he was having two same laptops of exactly same features but one with SSD and one with magnetic drive ) 

* More than 8 GB RAM is just over-killing and in most and many application is just lying idle and do not make any diff, whether you buy 16/32 unless want to burn money..

* Video card with more than 2 GB ( say 4 GB ) expectation is also over-liking ( not needed ) unless you do hard core video editing and video conversion and that related work and it can be little faster, otherwise no diff in nay movie/video watching or so ) 

Guy was sounding knowledgeable and after talking to him,.. my interest for a hardcore affinity towards a small size SSD drive, carrying for the system only, almost died,..


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

The links are in Post *#42*
The COA (Windows Product Key) is on a sticker on the top or side of the Dell XPS Desktop near the back. If a laptop, it will be sticker on the bottom of the laptop. 
If you can't find it or it is illegible, then download Magical Jelly Bean Key Finder to find your Windows Product key

How do you use your computer? If you just surf the internet, Email, Facebook and the occasional Youtube Videos and you don't run Graphic Intense Games, or use high end graphics programs like AutoCAD, or Video Editing, then yes you do not need a high end Graphics card or RAM over 8GB. However, you can't have _Too Much_ RAM, it's sort of like you can never have _too much_ money. 
SSD's boot the computer really fast, and there isn't a whole lot of performance difference after that, but there are no moving parts, and it will last much longer and have less problems with it in the future.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

> How and where do you get the Product key, if you bought Dell computer and did not buy any product from MSFT ?


You may use the license code for Windows 7 or 8 with the Media Creator Dvd if what you are buying has either of those.
Once installed you don't have to worry about the license code any more because it is stored in the bios for next use.

-------


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Spunks has it right though I might disagree that there is no difference after bootup as I still think every move is faster though the biggest difference is in the bootup but remember mechanical parts start to wear so also as he suggests in time the Ssd drive will really not show those signs of wear so speeds will say the same which are faster than mechanical hard drive. The one thing we really cannot yet answer is many Ssd drives have 5 and even 10 year warranty but they haven't been out long enough to really prove either number.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

What I understand is, SSD are just like your flash/ thumb drive,.. and agree that, due to no mechanical rotating disc or moving parts or magnetic media,… they may last longer and……………….. data, programs installed and all…. perhaps be more safe in it,.. but again,….. 

While, fast reading and writing or somehow,…. if not properly closing,.. 
I have incidents of many many flash drives, that have failed, 
( say,… its main operating files being disturbed/virus corrupted/erased ) 
which were though having,.. 10 or more years of warranties,… 

I read and studied a lot about WDC and Seagate’s own mirror copy and backup free software on their site, I also studied and read Norton ghost and other such duplicator programs to have a mirror copy, been saved of yr existing OS HDD,.. but 

Finally, I trust this docking station sort of small piece, ( below picture ) that does the job extremely good, it’s cheaper, a life-saver, and can handle IDE, SATA and SSD for backing, mirror copy and reading back and from PC to internal HDDs, been plugged outside in this docking station. 

I mirror copy, every 3 mos the primary OS HDD , to a ditto similar 1TB HDD outside ,… to be safe,…. ( at Walmart this piece is cheapest ) 











Adapter USI-2535CLU3 | KWI Technology Inc.

Unlike other Docking stations, it does not restrict the size / by enclosure,.. of your drive in any closed casing or so,.. works for SSD too, with wires provided with it..


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

While flash drives are inherently similar hardware the Ssd drive is vastly superior in manufacture and and stability so do not compare them.
Mirroring hard drive every 3 months is great but bear in mind there are really two different types of backup. Image files or clones which backup the entire system and file and data backup which can backup or synchronize files and data so when a hard drive goes down you don't have to lose 3 months worth of files and data. File and data backup programs can be schedules for different times or set to run during idle time. FileFort
is a good free program and Handy Backup
a good paid one.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

That looked like a great item until I read the reviews on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LSU4SHW/ref=cm_sw_su_dp


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

I hate the image files ( image back up copies ) , as at the end moments,… it will never work, for sure. to recover,… And I almost 99% consider it as a fake consolation having smthg in spare,…. and am 100 percent sure that in end moment it WILL give you shocking surprise results, ( been happened to me many times ) and can never trust it,.. same with the synchronization,… ( would never trust this ) I rather buy a spare ITB spare Seagate drive around 30 bucks on e-bay,.. and clone alternately every 3 months,…

Some important doc files and book mark files,…… ( as, very well explained by “Spunk” in my previous thread ) I also save in, the flash drives as duplicate copy, so nthg much to lose. 

--------------------

RE : The above docking station Clone piece : 

I am happy,.. it works good, 3.9/5.0 rating is not bad,…..other Chinese makes are even worse, very cheapo sold on e-bay with no manu. name,.. 
I was having EZ dock 3 station before, I returned it as it was not for PATA and was having other limitations…. Though, it also worked good, as being a make of same company,..
This piece covers IDE/PATA/SSD too
I made 5-7 times, so far,..... very perfect clones,…no complain....

I have other 20-25 diff HDDs of PATA/SATA,.. 160/200/250/80/60/500 GB of all diff. size ( had bought used ones,.. and in bulk sales from ebay, dirt cheap ) and this piece makes them all like an External HDD drive,…

My Important docu, jpegs of passport, deeds, drv. Lic, CDs, I-Bonds, Car's certificates, and such imp documents,.. ceremony photos, small vdo clips of B-day parties,.. etc,.. , favorite shows, jpegs,.. etc I have copied on many of above HDDs,... so nthg to lose now,…….


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Huh? Well I cannot let this one go I have been making image files first with a program called "Drive Image" I used in the 90's and I cannot tell you how many times they have saved me especially in the "buggy" days of Windows 98. When Symantec bought Power Quest and literally trashed their inferior program "Ghost" and replaced it with Drive Image program they then proceeded to murder that program over the years renamed as "Ghost", and killed it all together in 2015, but that was the single best simple program that simply made image files of the entire OS without all the "creature comforts". Acronis later added to the picture thoroughly deleting simple into complex but further expanding the capabilities.
I can think of only one time in 20+ years of restoring image files where one didn't work for me and that was in 2013 when all the image file programs failed in Windows 8 because they all used Linux "rescue disks" that could not be read with the addition of wonderful "secure boot" and UEFI bios, in my opinion that have polluted the world of computers for the sake of "fake safety" (you know the cousin of "fake news).
I was a beta tester for Power Quest and then Acronis for many years and saw the whole concept arrive and become more and more sophisticated from when you initially ran 2-3 floppies to create the "rescue" environment to today when you can restore from within Windows completely safely and for me the creation of image files, could be the thing that changed my computing life the most!
Rakesh, I think your worship of a cheap piece of hardware that apparently works as much as it doesn't reading the reviews is about as backwards as you can get from my experience.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I also still say having the capability to restore from 3 months ago still leaves you a lot of file recreation to do depending where you are within the 3 month cycle. If I had to restore a 3 month old file without the capability of restoring yesterdays files and data I would be ruined which is why I consider file and data backup so much more important than image files as I have clients who are office managers and have seen what they go through when a hard drive is lost without the advantages of file and data backup and they spend weeks recreating files in QuickBooks or Quicken, and I have seen clients who lose a lifetime of photographs because they didn't back up files and data.
Way back in the 90's Power Quest had a marvelous program called "Datakeeper" which ran in the background saving and changing files and data when the machine was idle and you could set the time of idle that would make it startup its backup. In my eyes nothing that has come and gone since ever matched that program's capability and when Symantec bought Power Quest, they simply discarded Datakeeper which for me I regard as the single stupidest thing I have ever seen a software company do, probably because they didn't understand it. The beauty of Datakeeper over all the others was you could pick files or folders that were important and set it to go and whenever the pc was idle it would come up and backup whatever was new and 18 years later there is nothing that can do all of that I have ever seen. Programs either copy everything including programs that cannot be restored, or have to be scheduled which defeats the entire purpose of catching an error "made on the fly"in a timely manner.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Saar,.. Thanks for the info,.. somehow your post itself says how tedious and annoying the image making procedure and back- recovery it is ! ( I dunno about new WIN10 features yet,… but Acronis, Norton  Ghost, and free programs offered by Seagate and WDC sites, are complete disappointments ) . It’s the thing of fake consolation that you always think,.. that for rainy days you have it….. and in fact, you do NOT have it, whenever the emergency-need arises. ‘Coz 99% it just never works no matter how nice you made the image ( also, am telling from others’ experiences ) ( Again, I dunno about new provisions in WIN 10, and how EZ or secure it is for image and cloning.. ) 

The best bet be , buy 1-2 spare similar drives from e-bay, by bidding for a used one ( I carry 3-5, 1TB drives, at present ) , After every 3-4 mos when you feel much work is done on PC, especially all updates of third party applications etc,.. Mirror it, and start using that mirrored drive / cloned copy now, for an another 3 months session and the drive now you left as spare, was working till today, and WILL definitely work ( No fraud will ever happen here, except you lack in adobe/ASC updates somewhere.. ) if emergency arrives in another 2-3 months. So, you keep mirroring and also exchange the use of drives when mirrored,.. Rest, imp files and documents you double copy in flash drives and external HDD also eventually, for double/triple protection. 

If you are talking about work place, then yess,… the work done ( in terms of projects ) is lot during 3 months and you may lose ( by mirroring, every 3 months, ) but that’s the JOB’s problem and they all carry extra strong servers and all backup features, ( on daily basis ) so, need not to worry. 

That small piece is truly a boon and the best thing I consider I ever bought in last year,.. since, I keep on buying all used 160-200-250 GB HDDs when price and bid falls to 6-7 dollars , and that piece is a docking station for many drives, where I have duplicate and triplicate copies of files stored of all important things, from medical records to Birth certificates to all bank , finance, birth, transcripts and educational credentials and passport-visa related, house deeds, CDs / Bonds,.. all documents. Also on e-bay it’s sold a small strip piece ( very low cost price ) which will simply convert ant PATA to SATA connection and vice-versa, and this piece will then take those drives too. Other docking stations with closed enclave will not facilitate for that extra piece inserted at the mouth of the HDDs for revised connection.











This Kingwin piece, will facilitate such other conversion connections,... other closed casing docking stations will not.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

First of all I don't myself use free programs so when you say free programs don't work for you I am not surprised because I don't use them though there is one exception with image backups and that is Macrium Reflect where the free version is the same as the paid one yet you don't mention it. Now again I don't use the free version because I also make incremental image files weekly and the free Macrium doesn't make those.
As I said in 20 years of making image files I only had one fail to restore and that is good enough for me. I walked away from Acronis in 2013 when that rescue cd failed and have been with Macrium Standard ever since.
As for buying drives for $5-6, you and I are from different worlds as I would never trust anything to a drive I paid that little for and I only use WD hard drives and Samsung or Crucial ssd drives and I would never ever buy a used or refurbished hard drive.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

When I said Free programs, I never meant warez and virusful other free stolen / duplicated and patch add-ons with corruption programs. 

Two biggest makes, make HDDS that the entire world use,…. WDC and Maxtor/Seagate and as a courtesy, ( just like free windows update ) for their drives, they enhance you few free software and testing applications etc and they offer these Acronis based free arena to help out their Hard drive users. They are even more reliable than Acronis itself, as Seagates double tests those before offering to the public and they are way bigger and more reputable than Acronis. .

On e-bay lower capacity and used sata / pata are sold sometimes in bundles and bid goes pretty cheap,… they remain tested, bytes checked, cleaned and good for storage of data and even for duplicate system. I did not have had a single problem with that as magnetic media itself is a luck-by-chance material,…… the brand new may fail next day and years old gives no problem. 

Sometimes, I prefer buying 12+ of 160GB/200GB / 250GB WDC / Maxtor drives ( used and cleaned ) instead of a 2 TB one external HDD, for the same price , 
Since storage in diff drives gives more safety-security than a single external HDD drive.


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Were did the idea come from that anyone was accusing you of using illegal software, it certainly was not a comment I read, if your happy buying and using the hardware the way you do have at it. Rich was simply passing on his many years of experience and knowledge in dealing with hardware and the pitfalls that can happen, perhaps getting back to the point of your thread would be a better use of your time than discussing preferences in buying hardware wherever it comes from.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Yeah we are way off topic here though I think the topic sort of wore itself out anyway and Joeten is right I wasn't be accusatory about using illegal software at all. Again I need to stop you a bit here as Acronis free version is stripped down for use with hard drive sales but is hardly better or worse than their full program. And while Seagate may be a larger company than Acronis that is comparing apples to oranges as Seagate makes hardware and Acronis makes software so to suggest Seagate might be better at making software than Acronis is is ridiculous and to suggest Acronis is not reputable, I am not sure where you get the background to say something like that. I was a beta tester for years for them and knew many of the execs and that is just completely untrue.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Anyway,… though a little off-topic,…. knowledge is never wasted,.. Learning is forever,.. Rich, also Spunk are a waaaaay more knowledgeable, no doubt,,… and readers can also gain a lot from this discussion, for sure.. ..btw.. the viewing count of this thread counts to its one of the highest among next 100+ around threads, below it,.. 

BTW, coming back to the topic of purchasing a good PC, after gaining knowledge from this fruitful discussion, on their Dell outlet web site,.... I was having one or two PCs (8930 XPS tower ) in mind ( refurbished, but still with same warranties like new ) to choose from, ( though over killing features ( more than needed ) are there but still price is quite competitive as compared to, other Models like Inspiron, Optiplex, and Precision models , ( for these, even for low features , price somehow is way way higher - even after other 20% discount price still is terribly higher ) so somehow I am still interested in 

8930, XPS tower,
i7, 8700, 8th generation, 
1TB HD with 4.20Ghz, 7200rpm, / or small sized SSD drive 
Memory 8GB, ( or higher if the PC already has it - in outlet center they do not let you change any components ) 
Win 10 pro and if not Home,. 
Nvidia GTX Geforce video card with 2 GB 
Quad and /or 6 core ( it comes with six, when you select such higher version model ) 

I was expecting few higher percentage discount on XPS on this Holiday sale season, but, while talking to them today, they have put 20+2 = 22 percent discount on Models in the Business section for Precision models and No discounts on XPS ( they even took it off 14% which was already there, till yesterday ) ,.. so will have to wait further,… No luck, for this 4th of July good deals,.. 

The reason for my affinity towards XPS ( which is mainly a gaming computer ) is,… other Models are very very expensive even for the low degree of features,... that, they carry,.. 

…………………


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I would much rather have business division models any Optiplex with extra discounts?
If you gave me an Inspiron or XPS I would hand it back to you and say no thanks.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Optiplex prices are very high,.. also it has small form factors, mini towers,.. etc..
Features are very low. 
Many models are very older with low features, and high prices. 

This will give an idea,…
https://www.dellrefurbished.com/desktop-computers?filter_brand=188&filter_operating_system=207


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## jenae (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi, I have used windows system image since it first appeared in Vista it has never failed me and we have deployed it thousands of times. Just a comment for what it's worth.

I suggest since you have done a lot of research you go one step further and buy the components you want, and put together the computer yourself.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

jenae said:


> Hi, I have used windows system image since it first appeared in Vista it has never failed me and we have deployed it thousands of times. Just a comment for what it's worth.
> 
> I suggest since you have done a lot of research you go one step further and buy the components you want, and put together the computer yourself.


 Are you talking about buying each component separately from outer market either from them / or individually from Manu.'s site / ebay /amazon /Newegg and assembling in a chassis by myself,.. 
or,... 
Let tell the Dell's new computer making division to build it, the way I say...?

For the first option, I guess price may or may not come down when buying all individual components and may or may not fit inside an another chassis properly, with high qlty of wirings,....... and properly it may or may not look like a computer,... ( have seen some people putting such in a cardbox boxes and tin containers even,.. .. ) 

For later option, the price will go definitely lot higher as , they have to ( custom formatted ) do the extra work for you and since,... you are now, buying not from the outlet center ( used / refurbished ) , but from a Dell's NEW department.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

https://www.techsupportforum.com/fo...e-teams-recommended-builds-2018-a-668661.html


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Corday said:


> https://www.techsupportforum.com/fo...e-teams-recommended-builds-2018-a-668661.html


 Thanks for the link, saar.....it’s a 6+ yrs old convo,… but very interesting,… know any such reliable persons ? Can PM me, few more detailed known references, pl ? Thx.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

It's not 6 years old. The first one was written in 2012 and has been updated every year since. The old ones are still kept in the Articles area.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

rakesh15 said:


> Optiplex prices are very high,.. also it has small form factors, mini towers,.. etc..
> Features are very low.
> Many models are very older with low features, and high prices.
> 
> ...


Why all small form factors? 
There are towers as well.
Optiplex are more money but they are also made better.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

The thing I just learnt,.. not to cry over WIN 10 PRO v/s Home version, as 
though DELL is charging for it, a lot more,.. but
e-bay has it, for a CD sold with Lic. code or just Lic. code been sold at very nominal price,.... from 24,........ to 6 dollars ( code only ), so do it rather later by yr-self for A PRO version, making it on an another of your own HDD....

.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

rakesh15 said:


> The thing I just learnt,.. not to cry over WIN 10 PRO v/s Home version, as
> though DELL is charging for it, a lot more,.. but
> e-bay has it, for a CD sold with Lic. code or just Lic. code been sold at very nominal price,.... from 24,........ to 6 dollars ( code only ), so do it rather later by yr-self for A PRO version, making it on an another of your own HDD....
> 
> .


Good catch and you are right, even though it is perfectly legal I felt I should not say that.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

^^^ 
No idea either, but the pack shows original MSFT ( original CD, not copied one ) and few even “ just code - unopened MSFT packs ”, and 5-6 dollars around, guys from Albania and such,... diff nations, so may be dollar conversion factor,….. again, no idea,.. Dell easily charges 85 to 100 dollars more for going to PRO from Home version,.. 

Again no idea if LIC code had been used/not,... may/may not work,...


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I would not be buying from Albania in fact I would not be buying from any but British vendors.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Many legally authorized and genuine companies also sell around 35 dollars when I checked _Google shopping_, ……few college students ( for helping students’ tuition fee as charity ) even sell iso images ( delivered to yr house, no CD, no codes needed ) around 1-6 dollars,..

So, it seems it’s not a big deal..... and you can make it work out later somehow anyway,….


Only Dell guys are raising the price of 80-100 dollars just for PRO..

I would not now think it as a major concern,..


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Rich-M said:


> I would much rather have business division models any Optiplex with extra discounts?
> If you gave me an Inspiron or XPS I would hand it back to you and say no thanks.


 What is yr opinion about these Optiplexes? ( any comments, pl. ? ) 

*Are they too old and obsolete ? ( Speed point-of-view ) - Memory and space, I can increase...... 
*Are they built on 32 Bit system, and a very old set of obsolete computers ?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Refurbis...rive-Windows-10-Pro-Monitor-Included/50644451

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Refurbis...rive-Windows-10-Pro-Monitor-Included/50644447

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Refurbis...rive-Windows-10-Pro-Monitor-Included/50644439

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Refurbis...-Windows-10-Pro-Monitor-Not-Included/49333314

………….


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Generation 3 small form factor? Really? Current cpu is Gen 8 as you know I would not touch these.


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Yes these are inexpensive, but they are all_ Refurbished_, and _Generation 3_ meaning, they _all _had problems and were sent back to Dell and _"fixed"_ then put up for sale. 
If you are strapped for cash and just need a computer to surf the internet, Facebook, Email and not Upgrade any hardware, then this would do the trick, but if you want to get something that will last for a few years into the future, not something that is already obsolete, you'll want to get a *New *one, Not _Refurbished,_ and as stated, that is an Intel I5 or I7 Generation 8. Also the *SFF* (ie) *S*mall *F*orm *F*actor case is very difficult to upgrade or add hardware to because of it's size limitations.


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

While I concur with my fellow techie on most everything he has to say.......but this one is an absolute falsehood. Sorry Rich. 



> While newer video cards have 3 ports does not mean you can use all at same time.


This is exactly what the newer GPU's are setup to do. Now back in the old days this was true but not so now. Example; my 1060 will let me use all 4 ports at the same time (now I'm only running 3 monitors). It's the new fad with gamers and multiple monitors. With the right sound and monitor setup, gaming is more immersive and field of view is vastly increased. The best part of all this, is it's done natively with in the GPU. No more special software is required like Eyefinity from AMD. Nvidia had there own version as well.


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

To rakesh15.....with all these questions on PC components, have you considered building one. You would be so much better off with building one. As for being cost effective...for buy a decent OEM such as the Dell brand you're looking at....the cost would almost the same or maybe a little cheaper. 

Building one is not that difficult....and we here can help with picking the components needed for whatever budget you have. Even if the components are a few years old the system would be far superior than any OEM system.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

bassfisher6522 said:


> While I concur with my fellow techie on most everything he has to say.......but this one is an absolute falsehood. Sorry Rich.
> 
> 
> This is exactly what the newer GPU's are setup to do. Now back in the old days this was true but not so now. Example; my 1060 will let me use all 4 ports at the same time (now I'm only running 3 monitors). It's the new fad with gamers and multiple monitors. With the right sound and monitor setup, gaming is more immersive and field of view is vastly increased. The best part of all this, is it's done natively with in the GPU. No more special software is required like Eyefinity from AMD. Nvidia had there own version as well.


That's what, Dell guys ( 2 of them ) had said me,.... that I do not necessarily search for another dual port vdo card now, to run two monitors, in these newer XPS tower PCs.. and they can take 3 monitors simultaneously, you may have to perhaps buy a piece, if needs..... as they are DVI, HDMI and that other higher intensity than HDMI ( tiny one, with many teeth inside ) :smile:


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

spunk.funk said:


> Yes these are inexpensive, but they are all_ Refurbished_, and _Generation 3_ meaning, they _all _had problems and were sent back to Dell and _"fixed"_ then put up for sale.
> If you are strapped for cash and just need a computer to surf the internet, Facebook, Email and not Upgrade any hardware, then this would do the trick, but if you want to get something that will last for a few years into the future, not something that is already obsolete, you'll want to get a *New *one, Not _Refurbished,_ and as stated, that is an Intel I5 or I7 Generation 8. Also the *SFF* (ie) *S*mall *F*orm *F*actor case is very difficult to upgrade or add hardware to because of it's size limitations.


Yup, I knew these are trash and btw are sold at Walmart ( used/refurbished ones,...... Dell has nthg to do with them,..... for any warranty, parts or anything ) 
I was just wondering,.. ( when I saw a logo of i5 on all of them,.. and not i3 ) hence wondered, what else inferiority that you see,.. and I do not,.....


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Well,….. so far ,……. after gearing up this conversation to a this dense level,…. with you wonderful, expertise n’ highly co-operative guys,….

I concluded to jump into somewhat this kinda ( below link ) XPS CPUs, ( price for optiplex and others are terribly high, with low features ) as soon as Dell puts 17+2 = 19% or more discount on them,…
My target is, price must go 575-600 dollars around ,….net, after all discounts,…
XPS are huge and requires space, but I have no prob. for that underneath my work-table,.. 

Dell Official Outlet Refurbished & Overstock Laptops, Desktops & Monitors

[ ^^ So far, the PC showing price-range of 720 to 880 USD ( in above link ) are in mind and discount can bring them to 600 net USD around,.. ) 

[ If above link is not working,.... go to outlet.dell.com,.... Choose " outlet for home " tab,......click on the picture of " desktop and all-in-one " ,....... Press the " Model " button and select 8930 ]

Later,…… I feel now comfortable to buying, used SSD drive/s at low prices later ( e-bay / Google shopping ) and building WIN 10 PRO on those, and also on others, my 1TB Seagate drives ( clones.... for double security and safety ) May also add more space and memory later,...

I am not much familiar yet, how far new image-copy and backing up / Clown. kind of enhanced advanced features, have been efficiently employed in WIN 10 yet,.. ! I must experience... 


===========================

Few gentlemen have highly suggested to go for generic….. and building of your own CPU ,…. And, part I still dunn’o understand is,.. 



Will it be a dell chassis and casing, a roomy inside,.. with a provision for expansion ( putting more secondary drives,.. etc or not ,.. and also enuff nos of USBs and all other ports on the back, that a new Dell provides,.. or not ? ( ‘Coz I also run printer a TV watching piece ( Hauppauge ) , a boom box ( Jadoo) to watch Asian Tvs, ( Eventually a Box from Verizon for voip phone, and few such accessories,…. for that I need enough nos of USB ports,. Mic, speaker, camera provision and all,…
 Let say, you put highest makes of HDD, sound and video cards of known and famous makes, ….. but, how about the Mother board,… will it be of Dell / quality make,… or some cheap make of non-famous quality ?
 How about inner circuit’s all wirings, fan, motor, ..etc and shouldering/riveting of all electronic parts – will it be of precision quality or will let you draw back,…?
 Any warranty for 1 yrs parts/labour/in-home service /technical ,… etc,.. how about that?
 
The reason, I am scared... b-coz in my daily practical life,….. If you buy a loaf of bread, a box of Kellogg cereal or a half gallon pack of friendly's / Brayer icecream,…. and many such items,… using coupons and also when it’s on sale,……. You can never beat/match that price or the quality..... by making those at home,….. and in those cases, market buying is a lot efficient/cheaper for the price as well as quality. 

Again, I could be wrong, here.

...


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## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

Well you are my wrong to assume that,  I have assembled 100s of computers, we discussed this on the forum many times, an assembled pc will give you a LOT more value in terms of cost savings, additional warranty, flexibility with adding removing components and will allow you to scale the specifications at any time.

DELL does not manufacture it's components, it just gets stuff from other manufacturers (customizes them or asks the oem to customize them if required) and brands them as DELL :S ... So don't be under the impression that DELL has premium components in them, if you're buying a budget pc, you're getting budget components.

With a generic/assembled PC, I can build a PC with the exact same specs for about 70% of the cost of a Dell, sometimes even cheaper, because when you do your own homework, you realize that 2 GFX cards priced $50 apart, would only provide a few fps difference doesn't make sense to go with an expensive one. I'd wait and get the Ryzen 2300GE APU that is about to launch, that has a TDP of 35W  You can't beat that.. While Dell runs a 65/90W CPU, I can buy something like this and lower my energy cost..

If you do your homework your ROI would be amazing on an assembled PC, coupled with the individual component warranties CPU 3Years, Mobo 3 Years etc.. you have a darn good investment. RAM sticks have lifetime warranty in most cases


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

We Understand that you most familiar with Dell, but there are on the lower end of quality in the Computer market. 
If you choose to build your own desktop, you choose the parts, so you choose the Case, make it as roomy as you need it to be. Depending on your budget, you would choose the Motherboard and it's quality, with all the various USB Ports for your needs and other ports you need for your various peripherals, wiring circuits, Fans etc You would choose the* P*ower *S*upply *U*nit, the SSD drive, the CD/DVD or Blu-Ray drive etc. Since you are building it, it would be cheaper then if Dell used the same parts and built it for you.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Listen carefully to what Tristar and Spunky have said as they both explained today's market perfectly. Dell is nothing but an assembler of parts and they have to make money on these units, it is their prime motivator, not delivering the best possible value to you.
You can buy whatever you like for motherboards and buy cases big enough to live in if that is what you want and your labor is free as is our help to you in doing this. Warranties on hardware are mostly 3 years for quality parts where no matter what Dell uses the warranty comes with 1 year and you pay for a longer warranty so long run you have greater protection as tristar states memory is even lifetime warranty and the boards and cpus are minimum 3 years while hard drives are between 2 and 5 years and ssd drives greater than that. And if you really like your case, use it again when you build your next unit.
The prime reason for building is not price it is knowing the quality inside and I am glad to hear I was wrong about multiple video card ports as there my knowledge was old as I have no interest in multiple monitors so I haven't tried in years and didn't realize that old issue has been corrected, but having a place like this to go to you can even have 24 hour tech support because I note we have several continents covered with those who have answered you here besides!


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

Thank you all folks,......Will it be ok to make it here, per my needs, as you all know my needs, by this time,...

I trust, respect, and thank you guys for the advice, opinions and suggestions,.. I am a novice and a quite beginner here, and have my own prejudiced thoughts in this arena ( due to lack of knowledge ) perhaps,....... and being your ‘wrong’ is a pleasant problem here.. :smile:

So, could you give me all rough estimates ( including the net shipping price all the way to my home delivered ) smwhat like,..

Chassis ( it includes motor, fan, Motor and and inside compartments ) = ______ 

Mother board w/ intel and so and so capacity = ______ 

Later, DVD RW / Bluray drive ( say WDC company of so and so specifications , Video card , sound card, nos of usb 2.0 and 3.0 ports,.. Memory, and all remaining goodies, ( with specification s) , 10 PRO, and a complete computer,..... till the shipping to my home charges to DE, USA 19701. ( Do I assemble them afterwards by myself ? or it's done by a seller ? ) 


Can you please format ( a rough draft to start with ) this according to my requirements which you can easily see ( my rough idea of the components ) in my above post with a Dell outlet link given and 2-3 Computers shown there, ( of XPS tower 8930 ) as mentioned in my above post 


P.S. Waiting for a rough layout with components, make, and total cost to me, please. I know I am consuming a lot of time and efforts of you, but hundred of other readers will also gain tremendously, hereby, with me. Thanks.


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

Can anybody open those links that rakesh15 posts. I get not secure error message on chrome and firefox.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

bassfisher6522 said:


> Can anybody open those links that rakesh15 posts. I get not secure error message on chrome and firefox.
> 
> View attachment 320632


I can not open those too, as Dell's page is formatted that way,... once you select items, tabs and buttons,.... then the final link does not copy, save and open,..... by its link address,... ( previously i thought it was,.. my low version of OS problem, but it was not )


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

> Can anybody open those links that rakesh15 posts. I get not secure error message on chrome and firefox.


go to *outlet.dell.com*,.... 
Choose " *outlet for home* " tab on the top ,......
click on the picture of " *desktop and all-in-one* " 
Press the " *Model* " button and select *8930*

In first row, the CPUs are shown with specifications,.. 
My target is, net price must go 575-600 dollars around ,….net, after all discounts,…

*So computers shown there *
*showing price-range of 720 to 880 USD ( in above way ) are in my mind ( more or less my needs and requirements ) , *and discount can bring them to 600 net USD around,...




.......


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

rakesh15...what country are you in? 

I recommend looking on newegg.com (my preferred PC site) for DIY full build setups and completely assembled PC's. This will give you an idea what components are being paired up and the cost. If I read one of your posts correctly...you have a budget of $600 to $700 USD? For that you can get a really good mid level or low entry high level PC. 


Have a look.......
https://www.newegg.com/Full-Build-Bundles/PromotionStore/ID-1359?name=Full-Build-Bundles


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

^^ I have searched,... 
Amazon, e-bay, walmart, Dell, Newegg, Buy / reutag.com
other black friday sale sites like dealcatchers.com and similars,. 

and above all these,...
*shopping.google.com*, where you put search word,.. Say "XPS Dell 8930 " and they compare and find the lowest price among all ( above discussed ) and 
staples, kmart, best-buys, circuit city, office depot, officemax, Fries and other 10s of big-small stores,.....including other 50-75+ places who are in this business,.. 

So,..... so far I have found *Dell itself* ( w/ good discount offers )  and few risky *bids on e-bay for 8930* ( as shipping back to them , in case would be little hard - return/restocking fee - though refurbished warranty is same as and by Dell ) say,... if PC was found more used/more screeched signs / signs of used then you expected ,.. 

But I somehow doubt that , Newegg can build better and quality one ( price competitive ) ,.. but still i will now look into it, closely,.. Thank you for link,...


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

You're missing the point. The link is to compare how Newegg bundles full build packages for AMD and Intel. With that info, you go looking for the components and put together a build that you can afford. Which is a much better PC then "ANY OEM" you can buy....it's not an opinion it's a fact as stated by all of us here trying to help.

But you seem hell bent on buying a discounted Dell off ebay or some other junk site like that. And with that I'm out of this thread. Best of luck to you.


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

BTW, their Alienware ones aren't much better. They have high end stuff like the Alienware Area-51 with an i9 processor, but by the time you add the extras needed to be a top notch gamer, you're looking at 6 grand. Competitors at that level also build their own and save a few bucks.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I rather agree with bassfisher if you want help with Dell I suggest you call Dell they know their "mercandise" better than any of us though you might want to consider why that is? And you know while we are on the subject I have shopped the Dell Outlet over the years and never felt there was any value there. I can buy new Dell monitors less expensively at Newegg and their discount prices are usually barely 10% off except on really old stock IMHO.

We have here some suggested builds and since I wrote that listing this year and know those components are current and I have used most of the components listed there and stand behind them. We sent you this link once before I am rather sure:
https://www.techsupportforum.com/fo...e-teams-recommended-builds-2018-a-668661.html


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

rakesh15 said:


> Many legally authorized and genuine companies also sell around 35 dollars when I checked _Google shopping_, ……few college students ( for helping students’ tuition fee as charity ) even sell iso images ( delivered to yr house, no CD, no codes needed ) around 1-6 dollars,..
> 
> So, it seems it’s not a big deal..... and you can make it work out later somehow anyway,….
> 
> ...


Windows is not cheap, even the lowest genuine offers aren't cheap per se. Iso images delivered to your house, no codes needed!??? By codes I suppose you mean product key? Cheaper upgrade media also required keys! Don't believe everything you see on the internet. If you're not careful, you're gonna get duped. I wouldn't fall for an iso image of Windows that requires no product key to activate, unless it's an oem recovery disk, but those are no longer supplied, and definitely not for Windows 10. You may end up buying a disc that was burned using a freely downloadable Windows 10 iso, and if you're not careful, it may come compromised and preloaded with malware! You've been given pretty good advice here. With that budget, I too would build a custom PC ($500 Intel build), unless availability of those parts is a problem in your location.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

^^ I never buy those copied CD/disks/home-made piracy CD / Warez CD / patches.. or such, but only if it’s Microsoft’s with logo ( org CDs ) and many a times in packed and unopened. CD / product key with activation code,.. etc . Still, I do not have computer ….and hence do not know or got into much,.. but it seems, few genuine are selling around 25-35 bucks. In few nations, the conversion rate v/s USD or market prices remains slightly different , and e-bay/Amazon are sort of international markets, having loads of buyers and sellers around the world, and hence they can do it. Again I did not inquire much as I still don’t have a latest computer yet. 

I saw some threads where in other nations, ppl can have100-300 and higher net speeds ( as a very common ) and that around 20-25 dollars/month sort of nominal fees, so market is diff. everywhere,… I had also bought in the past couple thingies from China and Canada and due to conversion factor they can sell lower,.. just like, say out-sourcing of jobs. 

To give few examples,.. ( again I am not favoring , but just making a point, that by hunting and searching,.. you can get quality, brand new, genuine and also at a lower rate, say for WIN 10 PRO ) 

















https://www.google.com/search?q=win...d=0ahUKEwiQj92N3YrcAhWCZd8KHdksBjwQuw0I2AIoAg

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...15&_osacat=0&_odkw=windows+10+installation+CD

……………….

Coming back to the topic, for the Computer, I know my Budget is low and Expectations are ridiculously higher, and hence, ……. must rely/depend on,… used/refurbished/returned/ opened box / without brochure/ scratch-dent / new-other stuff, which was perhaps used for 1-3 months by others,.. ( dell is giving equal warranty for parts and labor just like a new one , so no problem ) _ I have so far used, little scratch and dented freezer, refrigerator, washers, range, lawn-mowers, Vacuums and tons of such other house-hold accessories from Sears’ such warehouses, and never ever had any performance or any other problem. 
Due to some of my own circumstances, my budget remains low. 

I just studied the sites , links provided by Mr Rich of _building your own_ and also Newegg ,……..and due to the all new unused parts price total tome, turned very high. Hence, will have to stay with discounts-offers and returned items, as per my budget-amount and expectations. 

I thank all, for their advice sand suggestions and have learnt/it helped a lot, to rephrase my requirements 

----------------------------------


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## Confounded Also (Aug 19, 2015)

I've been scanning this thread for days and don't really understand why we're at 5 pages and nearly 100 posts. Others have touched on it more gently perhaps, but my 'help' in buying a Dell is simply, 'don't buy a Dell'. Their name is all they have and their reputation is not good overall as far as service and warranties. Their product is no better than any other brand and may not be as good as many.

To be honest, the 'best overall' machine I've ever had is this one I'm typing on which is a Gateway. While it has given me some notable trouble in the 8 years or so I've had it, I've been able to keep it functioning well with minimal expense. You might want to focus your searches on Acer who acquired the Gateway line. Others may disagree.

Personally, I wouldn't have a Dell if someone gave it to me.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Confounded, ever try to get a Mac owner to buy a Windows pc? It isn't happening and much as I have never seen it with Dell before, it is obvious the only way rakesh is going to get the message is to buy another one or one and learn for himself that today's Dell is at best quite ordinary in a sea of very poor quality computer assemblers who actually manufactures nothing. They buy the cheapest parts on the spot market and/or design low end components to match the rest of what they use. They repair nothing but in fact just throw parts at things. I recently had a small soldered part break off on a laptop motherboard and client had to replace the motherboard because Dell doesn't fix anything. I would have soldered the part but they don't sell the parts either. But you go enjoy and learn that for yourself, and no need to come back and tell us when you do!


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

I agree with Confounded that we're :horse: , but perhaps the OP didn't realize that Dell has changed. When I bought a Dell in the late 80s or early 90s, I could take one of their standard packages and specify the upgrades I wanted. Essentially a custom built computer. As a mass marketer, they found it cheaper to offer a take it or leave it approach. I believe this started around 2000.


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## rakesh15 (Jan 6, 2006)

I agree with you all guys,….. Dell has lost its prestige, credit and all.. tremendously over the years,.. ( perhaps they never had any,.. but again,.. in a community of blinds, even an one-eyed person could be da king ) their service techs are also dumbly saying in just a fraction of second…. and very often,.. that ‘ format the drive and rebuild/factory reset the computer,.. ‘ without thinking anything else,.. and I am also using the PCs from DOS days Tendy, 386, 486, and TI-99 days,,… and windows 3.1 days,…TI’s ( TI-99 ) computers also have used and ran on TV screen,.. and played cartridge games in those ATARI days,.. 

IBM was the best in very beginning, they stopped making much/very expensive… needed their own make and no generics,.. then “gateway” were also the best,…. And then remainder was ‘dell’ ( like, Toyota and Honda cars for normal people ,.. not so good, not so bad ) among other ordinaries like HP / Compaq, Acer and other Taiwanese junk like ASUS,.. . 

In fact, there is nthg like Dell- it’s just a logo,.. , I have used Dell Computers for last 22+ years, ( at job 12/7 almost,… and at home ) they have WDC, NVIDIA, Maxtor, Soundblaster and all diff makes inside and they are just assemblers,.. That’s how,… in fact, the whole nation is,.. no one is a real repairer they just know how to replace,.. same with your car, no mechanic knows or is out there,.. who does repairs any, they just replace the bad ones,.. 

Despite of all these, I have worked at 1-2 MNCs and few small and big engg companies, and all I have seen is all PCs,.. just Dell, Dell and Dells and nthg else,… no Acer or HP/Cpq, even a bit of it, ever,.. in any company,… Coz it’s common Honda/Toyota car for all averages and at least lot better than junks of Ford/Chevy/Hundai/Yugo or such,..

Dell is not requirement, but rather your sadness,….. But somehow it still works as a common man’s Honda/Toyota,….. if it’s not Ferrari/Lexus/ Audi/Saab or Porsche. I have worked 2.8+ decades in engg. and have seen all PCs surrounding me nthg but DELL. So ? So far no solid alt is there, out yet.


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

I said I'd stay out.....BUT.....



> Despite of all these, I have worked at 1-2 MNCs and few small and big engg companies, and all I have seen is all PCs,.. just Dell, Dell and Dells and nthg else,… no Acer or HP/Cpq, even a bit of it, ever,.. in any company,… Coz it’s common Honda/Toyota car for all averages and at least lot better than junks of Ford/Chevy/Hundai/Yugo or such,..


Do you know why......It's because, Dell offers big deals to companies, small businesses, industrial companies, schools.....

It's still crap...crap is crap, no matter how many people or companies/schools use them.


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

It's time to close/lock this thread. 

As the OP has asked the same question 14 different ways and the answers have been given, yet blatantly refuses to take said advice and then comes back with more Dell "fan boy" rhetoric. 

If I didn't know any better, I'd swear this was flame baiting....I'm about to set fire to it.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

bassfisher6522 said:


> I said I'd stay out.....BUT.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And the sad truth is the "deals" are mostly hype and "fake" but the businesses think they are getting "something for nothing".

I think the thread has been interesting but we are starting to get redundant
so it is time to close the thread.


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