# Sticky  You Should Do This



## Corday

Okay, your upgrade or installed Windows 10 is working fine and you're happy. :smile: Now, not later is the time to go to the Control Panel>Backup and Restore>Create a System Repair Disc. We at TSF constantly find members who could greatly curtail their frustration and aggravation if they had performed this simple task.
It's also important to put the disc in a container for protection and store it in a safe place, but also one you can be sure to remember.


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## VividProfessional

agreed!


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## tony007

Just done it Corday now all I need is a black pen to write on it.


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## bassfisher6522

Question: Why does it say for "Windows 7". I have a retail install of windows 10.


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## Corday

This is an MS mystery. It works for 8, 8.1 and 10. I recommend dragging or copy/pasting individual folders like pictures and docs also as they're easier to restore individual items from.


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## rakesh15

Do we need to make this recovery CD every 3 mos, again and again,...? as Win updates goes very fast,.. my newly bought computer had 1703 now it has 1803 version of updates. 

Or,.. is the old CD of windows recovery is still good to put you back at least that old stage and then you can upgrade again !


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## joeten

You don't need to do it every 3 months, and major updates are only 6 monthly though there can be updates for security etc in between, as long as you have it then your at least able to get back up and running should the worst happen.


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## rakesh15

I have bought a new, nearly most latest PC a 5 days ago, 
and while talking to couple higher tech guys, ( Dell systems only ) they had advised me for the burning of entire OS rather by entering ST no. on their Dell site and get it on a 8GB flash drive. ( they all denied of recommending recovery CD , but strengthened for the OS either on a dble layer DVD ( it needs 8GB around ) or most preferably *a 8 GB or larger flash drive*, burning it all full system for full safety,..

The 8GB hardly costs 4-5 bucks, so I spared 2 x 8GB flash drives and will make OS every 3 mos alternately and write it over on old one,... to have nearly most latest OS as a whole with all recovery features,.. in case, the HDD fails,..

But I agree, if you have an OS CD, this recovery CD be suffice as an extra quick tool, I will make it soon,...


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## tristar

I usually create a partition at the beginning of the disk, and setup WinRE there, used to do that from the XP/7 days (Recovery console)  and leave the GPT partition at the end..

I've never tried with Win 10 though, the image is a lot more stable and never ran into a BSOD on my Win 10 machine..


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## rakesh15

My new PC can not find ( as per in post no. 1, here ) system recovery repair disc area anywhere,….nthg is in control panel,… I guess, it is the same as making of an entire Operating system disc / Full recovery instllaing band Repairing OS CD, that we are talking about here,…
And not about making a, mini 650 MB CD kinda repair disc, which I initially thought of,…. 

Like I mentioned in my above post, you need either a * 8GB flash ( preferably )* or a double layer of nearly 7-8 GB carrying DVD and its burning arrangement,.. and make an entire operating OS cum repair and recovery facility altogether. It’s not any mini size 650 MB, CD burning,…..

….

IMHO, partition always sucks and gives tough time in many other area, ( unless you are a Pro and know really, what you are doing,..... Just burn on a 8GB flash drive with full OS,..


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## Corday

The Repair Disc contains Boot: EFI: Sources: Bootmgr and Bootmgr.efi


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## joeten

Something for you to read https://www.pcworld.com/article/314...to-know-about-windows-10-recovery-drives.html


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## rakesh15

> The Repair Disc contains Boot: EFI: Sources: Bootmgr and Bootmgr.efi


When you say repair disc, means you are talking about the same 8GB flash or a 7+ GB, double side dvd been burnt for the entire OS system, Right ? 




> Something for you to read https://www.pcworld.com/article/3140...ry-drives.html


Yup I did burnt a complete OS on a 8GB Flash drive,... Thx.


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## joeten

Then you have what you need for the future.


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## Jack Willday

Dear Sirs
Thank you all for your help! My computer is now OK!
Jack Willday


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## Corday

Hopefully you're already making System Images. However,
every 6-12 months Microsoft releases a new Version of Windows 10. Many folks run into trouble for various reasons after installation. If your computer is performing properly, before installing the new version, make a System Image (Control Panel>Backup and Restore). Don't worry that it says Windows 7. This image is an exact clone of your main drive. You are now protected in the event of a disaster. *Do not* depend on System Restore. It works fine until you really need it. Then it doesn't matter how many dates a backup was made, none of them work. Happy Computing!


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## ahduncu

I am using free versions of Macrium Reflect and Easus Todo Backup to an external hard drive. I can backup a full image of my hard drive in about 30 minutes with either one and I can also schedule backups. In addition, Easus Todo Backup seems to back up incrementally daily.
Windows backup does the same thing but it seems to take forever (I tried it last night and gave up after a long time). 
Why should we use Windows backup as opposed to these other free programs?


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## ahduncu

Correction - Windows backup worked in the same 30 minutes today. I also created a restore disc to be able to boot if necessary.


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## axe0

Backup and Restore is just an option for those who do not use 3rd party software for backups.


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## liljackie

In my opinion there can be no problems with installing the new version of Windows 10, it doesn`t affect any of your data. Or I'm wrong?


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## Corday

liljackie said:


> In my opinion there can be no problems with installing the new version of Windows 10, it doesn't affect any of your data. Or I'm wrong?


Until it does. Then Murphy's Law goes into effect. You always should have backups of your personal data and although updating Windows should always go perfectly, if you read through our threads you'll see disasters. better safe than sorry might be a cliche, but a valuable one.


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## ahduncu

I have always manually set my backup times and left my laptop cover open until finished. My question is I have now set backup and restore for an automatic backup at a certain time and day. If the laptop is still on but the cover is closed will the software still work or does the cover have to be open?


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## axe0

liljackie said:


> In my opinion there can be no problems with installing the new version of Windows 10, it doesn`t affect any of your data. Or I'm wrong?


I agree, but history has proven the opposite to be true like with the 1809 update.


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## Qicery

This is a very helpful thread.


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## charolumag

Thanks for this helpful tips as I am using Windows 10.


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## sigman

Corday said:


> Okay, your upgrade or installed Windows 10 is working fine and you're happy. :smile: Now, not later is the time to go to the Control Panel>Backup and Restore>Create a System Repair Disc. We at TSF constantly find members who could greatly curtail their frustration and aggravation if they had performed this simple task. It's also important to put the disc in a container for protection and store it in a safe place, but also one you can be sure to remember.


Just because they have the disk they won't have a clue how and when to use it. Finding a website that describes everything and pasting it in a post is easiest. Otherwise, they will think it'd a copy of Windows 10 as it looks like one poster does. Check out Windows Secrets for starters. It's a great source of all things Windows.


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## Pursya

ahduncu said:


> I have always manually set my backup times and left my laptop cover open until finished. My question is I have now set backup and restore for an automatic backup at a certain time and day. If the laptop is still on but the cover is closed will the software still work or does the cover have to be open?


I have the same question, only desktop computer related, not laptop.
I assume as the desktop is powered down no backup will occur, but it would be nice to have this confirmed.


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## Stancestans

sigman said:


> Just because they have the disk they won't have a clue how and when to use it. Finding a website that describes everything and pasting it in a post is easiest. Otherwise, they will think it'd a copy of Windows 10 as it looks like one poster does. Check out Windows Secrets for starters. It's a great source of all things Windows.


That site is no good if you have to pay to access full articles that have been branded "premium" content when you can have the same information from multiple free sources!


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## spunk.funk

> I assume as the desktop is powered down no backup will occur


 That is correct. If the computer is turned off, it can't do any automatic functions, like Backup. 
If the computer is powered on, but is asleep, like if a laptop lid is closed, there are some back up programs that wake a sleeping computer to run the scheduled backup. But I wouldn't count on it: https://askleo.com/will-scheduled-backup-wake-machine-sleeping/


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## Stancestans

Some backup programs schedule a task which is configured to run as soon as possible if the schedule is missed, which often is as soon as the system resumes from whichever power state it was in. If I'm not mistaken, the backup and restore feature of Windows 10/8.1/7 creates a task in Task Scheduler which can be configured to run as soon as possible when the schedule is missed, or set to wake up the sleeping computer to perform the backup. See https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...indows-7/57b3c159-ca15-4569-ad19-7a0f2c542195 for a similar discussion.


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## thecomputerwiz

Here's how I do it to protect data and OS:

In desktops I always install TWO hard drives, first and smaller one is for the OS and programs. 2nd and much larger is for data and system images of the OS, using Macrium Reflect. After every time I do a Windows update or install any software, a backup is made and stored on the data hard drive, and a copy of the backup is also copied to my file server. Critical data is also backed up off the system as well on my file server.

As another poster has stated, System Restore is useless, NEVER works as well as any kind of Startup Repair also is totally worthless.

All of this protects my systems and data. I keep multiple backups of the system available, as well as a rescue disc that Macrium makes. Learned the hard way NEVER to trust Windoze LOL


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## thecomputerwiz

There's another post by the same OP about backing up your system, that's a LOT better than the repair disc mentioned here  Macrium Reflect saves the bacon every time


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## Stancestans

thecomputerwiz said:


> Here's how I do it to protect data and OS:
> 
> In desktops I always install TWO hard drives, first and smaller one is for the OS and programs. 2nd and much larger is for data and system images of the OS, using Macrium Reflect. After every time I do a Windows update or install any software, a backup is made and stored on the data hard drive, and a copy of the backup is also copied to my file server. Critical data is also backed up off the system as well on my file server.
> 
> As another poster has stated, System Restore is useless, NEVER works as well as any kind of Startup Repair also is totally worthless.
> 
> All of this protects my systems and data. I keep multiple backups of the system available, as well as a rescue disc that Macrium makes. Learned the hard way NEVER to trust Windoze LOL


It's good that you learned and have got a recovery strategy in place that works for you. Unfortunately, a lot of folks are technically challenged and can barely make proper use of Macrium Reflect. In a fairly new and open thread here, someone managed to screw up all four of their backup HDDs while attempting to clone their system drive using Macrium, despite them having prior experience and frequent use of a similar utility (Acronis) for the same purpose! While Macrium is a great backup tool, it can be quite a challenge to use, especially to many folks here who have no clue of what a system image is. Some of them give up as soon as you tell them to download and install a backup utility. They scamper away when you mention opening their PC's case to install a backup HDD! 

It would be really encouraging and a great relief to such folks if they knew that they didn't have to install any additional software or tinker with the internals of their systems just to create a system backup that could save them a lot of grief. The built-in Backup and Restore feature of Windows 10 (a great feature carried forward from Windows 7) works just fine and is super easy and straightforward to use. The same cannot be said of Macrium Reflect. Don't get me wrong, I love Macrium and actually use it as part of my backup strategy, but I wouldn't recommend it to the less knowledgeable because there already is a conveniently built-in, fully functional and very reliable backup tool on their Windows 7/8/10 systems that needs to be taken full advantage of.


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## sigman

thecomputerwiz said:


> There's another post by the same OP about backing up your system, that's a LOT better than the repair disc mentioned here  Macrium Reflect saves the bacon every time


One of the options in the recovery disk is System Restore, which restores your system files to a previous configuration point without affecting data. This may take up to an hour depending on many programs you have but it's less time than to restore the entire system and data.

A restore point is created automatically with every Windows Update, with some software installations and 3rd party software removals. Also, some antimalware software will create one when removing infections. You should manually mak a restore point every time you install a new piece of software and once a month. To do this simply type "create" in the Start Menu search bar and you'll get a program "Create Restore Point". A small screen will show up. You'll have to name the restore point. I just use the date. Push the "create" button. It will take several minutes to complete. 

If my computer has a start-up problem or is hanging repeatedly, after running all my diagnostics and not finding anything I'll use the option of going to an earlier restore point. I use a recovery USB device which loads much faster than a disk. You can do this through Windows 10 directly. For how to, Google 'create a recovery USB". 

I didn't see anyone explaining how you use the recovery disc/USB. You have to boot the device during startup. How you do this may vary among pc manufacturers. Normally you start the computer and immediately and repeatedly hit the F12 key. Remember to do this pressing the Fn key. You should get a screen that lists your hard drive, your DVD/cd drive, and if you're using a USB, a USB device. This screen tells the computer which device it should boot from. Normally it's the hard drive. If you"re using a disk, put it in the drive. Using the arrows select the DVD/cd drive or if you're using select it. Press return. Using the DVD/cd drive the software will take a long time to load. The USB is faster.


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## thecomputerwiz

System Restore sucks, rarely works nowadays. A full backup is MUCH more reliable.


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## thecomputerwiz

I have had no problems with Acronis OR Macrium. I have little faith in any Windoze utilities built into the OS, their reliability is not all that great in my experience.


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## Stancestans

thecomputerwiz said:


> I have had no problems with Acronis OR Macrium. I have little faith in any Windoze utilities built into the OS, their reliability is not all that great in my experience.


Like I said, it's good that you have a backup strategy that works for you. I don't dispute your personal experience with the inbuilt Windows backup utility, but let's not portray personal experiences as fool-proof facts. Lots of experienced staff members here will tell you they have had zero problems with built-in Windows utilities, which is why it is recommended here by one such staff, @Corday.

Now, the subject matter of this thread revolves around a hassle-free built-in Windows backup utility and obviously targets people who need prior enlightenment about said tool and what it can do for them, so kindly let's not turn this into a debate about third-party backup utilities. If you wish to submit a proposed article/tutorial on using Macrium Reflect as a Windows backup tool, just let me know via PM.


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## sigman

Corday said:


> Hopefully you're already making System Images. However,
> every 6-12 months Microsoft releases a new Version of Windows 10. Many folks run into trouble for various reasons after installation. If your computer is performing properly, before installing the new version, make a System Image (Control Panel>Backup and Restore). Don't worry that it says Windows 7. This image is an exact clone of your main drive. You are now protected in the event of a disaster. *Do not* depend on System Restore. It works fine until you really need it. Then it doesn't matter how many dates a backup was made, none of them work. Happy Computing!


I need to correct one thing. Unlike drive imaging, in which you create a compressed version of a drive that can be restored later, cloning creates an exact replica — boot records, files, settings and themes — that can be used immediately as a primary drive. This cloned drive can be kept as a backup, or you can reverse clone from it to a new, blank drive. I've kept a clone of my drive for years. It came in handy when my hard drive was crashed by viruses and malware and unfixable. I removed the bad hard drive, installed the clone and booted up the machine. I back up my data religiously so I could update the cloned drive. You can get a free version or Clonezilla but I warn you this is a piece of Unix software which you have to start from a CD. The feature may be part of free backup software but will certainly be in the paid versions like Acronis.


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## i_am_jim

Tried, couldn't


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## Corday

Some folks have had better luck with a different brand disc.


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## Stancestans

i_am_jim said:


> Tried, couldn't


You can alternatively create a Windows installation flash drive (8GB minimum for 64-bit Windows) using the Media Creation Tool from Microsoft. It serves the same purpose as the system repair disc and more.


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## i_am_jim

I got it. Nowhere does it say you must use a DVD. It suggests you can use either. My original try was with a CD (I have a lot more of those). It worked when I used a DVD.


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## sigman

sigman said:


> Just because they have the disk they won't have a clue how and when to use it. Finding a website that describes everything and pasting it in a post is easiest. Otherwise, they will think it'd a copy of Windows 10 as it looks like one poster does. Check out Windows Secrets for starters. It's a great source of all things Windows.


If "pasting it in a post" means somewhere that you will need to access with a computer, well that defeats the purpose. Anything like that I would make a printout and put in a folder. And by the way, Windows Secrets is no more. https://www.askwoody.com/2018/what-happened-to-windows-secrets/


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## Stancestans

sigman said:


> If "pasting it in a post" means somewhere that you will need to access with a computer, well that defeats the purpose. Anything like that I would make a printout and put in a folder. And by the way, Windows Secrets is no more. https://www.askwoody.com/2018/what-happened-to-windows-secrets/


Browse the instructions on a smartphone or tablet or save it as a PDF on a mobile device.


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## Rich-M

Raid is so much more compilcated and clumsy and there are so many variations image making software is just so much easier and there are plenty of free versions these days as well if you won't pay for Acronis or Macrium Reflect there is a free version of Macrium though it won't make incrementals as only the paid version will. Easeus has free versions but again I don't think they make incrementals on free versions.


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## johnwill

Both of my NAS boxes are configured for RAID, not complicated at all from an end user perspective. I had one of the disks on the Synology box go bad, I simply replaced it with a new disk, and then fired up the NAS again. After a few hours, the RAID was rebuilt and all was well and redundant again. They even allow access to the remaining disk while the rebuild takes place.


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## sigman

My late older brother had a Synology RAID system and swore by it, but only had to rely on it once. I knew about clones before Windows images and had to rely on it once, replacing the hard drive. I've relied on images for the past seven years, first with Acronis. Unfortunately, its Media Builder failed to work properly once and I had to reset the OS. I've switched to Macronis and used it twice. However, I also keep a clone which I refresh every six months, because of my history. For this, I use DiskGenius, which was recommended to me on TSF. It will reboot to WinPE without a USB device to make the clone. 

Most third-party software will give you a comparison chart between free and paid versions. That is the only way to make an intelligent choice.


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## Rich-M

Yeah I had a failure with Acronis once myself then switched to Macrium and never looked back. I make an image file once a month and incrementals inbetween, then trash the incrementals after I make the next full monthly file.


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## johnwill

I actually make a full boot partition backup each week, and I keep six of them. Periodically, I copy one to an "archive" folder so even if all of the six get corrupted, I'm not starting from scratch. My data and email are backed up daily, I use the differential backup scheme. I keep as many of those that will fit in 200GB, usually at least three months worth. These backups are on a separate local drive on my main machine.

I also have automated backups of all that data to the NAS with the mirrored drives. Finally, I have a couple of USB drives that I keep handy and when my calendar alerts me, I fire one up and make copies of all the backed up data. Whenever I'm going somewhere and using my laptop, my current data gets copied to the laptop. Finally, about once a month I fire up my backup computer and backup all my data files to that machine. Oh, I forgot, the NAS also does periodic backups to a separate 2TB USB drive that is attached to the NAS for a little more insurance.

I may still lose data, but it's not for lack of backup.


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## Rich-M

What I do is close to what John does as I make image files monthly stored on a second drive in my towers. I try to make incrementals every week deleting them once the next complete image file is made. I also keep a file and data backup that runs daily to both an external drive and a NAS drive but I have another wrinkle where my files are all on a small server so my backups are from the server to the desktop as well as the NAS drive as my units have no files on them only backups to a second drive. The second internal drive has image files and server backups on them.


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## johnwill

You can never have too many backups, but you sure can have too few!


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## Rich-M

Amen brother!!!!


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## smithcharlee

Good Idea and suggestion by Corday.


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## Corday

Reconstructed Thread.


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## CriticalPoint

Corday said:


> We at TSF constantly find members who could greatly curtail their frustration and aggravation if they had performed this simple task.


Preach! 🙏🏻


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