# Pcmark05 System Suite?



## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Ok I ran this program and it says it will not give me a score till I select system suite, but it is not an option it is grayed out. Does anyone have a clue on this. I did not see a good catagory to stick this thread in so I thought I would stick with the one I know.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

*Hello?*

Come on guys I know my system is not hanging on by a thread or anything, but throw me a bone would ya.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Are you using the free version? See if this helps... 


*http://www.futuremark.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16530*


> I have the free version of PCMark05. All the tests run fine now, but at the end I get a nice box telling me I need to run system suite to get a score.





> I installed a few windows patches, and now I get a score.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

My windows is always up to date. Still no score. I figure this out before but I can't remember how I did it.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Hi,

I have the same problem. PCmark just will not give a score. I checked the link above and the patches listed there. Some of them I did not have - although I also thought my system was up to date - so I installed them one by one, no result the problem is the same. I suspect it has something to do with audio and video encoding/decoding as these tests fail... I see this when the result is brought into excel...


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

HDD - XP Startup 11.93 MB/s 

Physics and 3D 216.36 FPS 

Transparent Windows 1084.75 Windows/s 

3D - Pixel Shader 304.58 FPS 

Web Page Rendering Test failed 

File Decryption 65.9 MB/s 

Graphics Memory - 64 Lines 2192.03 FPS 

HDD - General Usage 7.61 MB/s 

Multithreaded Test 1 / Audio Compression N/A 

Multithreaded Test 1 / Video Encoding Test failed 

Multithreaded Test 2 / Text Edit 171.89 Pages/s 

Multithreaded Test 2 / Image Decompression 32.62 MPixels/s 

Multithreaded Test 3 / File Compression 5.9 MB/s 

Multithreaded Test 3 / File Encryption 30.65 MB/s 

Multithreaded Test 3 / HDD - Virus Scan 34.91 MB/s 

Multithreaded Test 3 / Memory Latency - Random 16 MB 12.93 MAccesses/s 

You can see a couple things failed and I did not get a score. Do the ones that did come through look good?


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Hi, 
Results look good. The reson why you do not have all the scores is that PC mark requires WMP 10 with WM encoder 9 series. I installed them on a fresh windows XP and all the scores were obtained, also the general PC mark score...with WMP 11 no scores received on video/audio compression...try


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Yes, you will need the latest software support, including D3D9c for Windows. The tests it fails are a good dindication why you are not getting a complete score. Also, the benchmark score doesn't mean squat really. 

If you want to see how powerful your system is, get an AVI (or media) file above 100MB, and ultra compress it with 7-Zip and see how long it takes to compress/decompress.

Encrypt and decrypt large files.

Encode and decode large media files or batches.

This is real life performance. :wink:

Run POV-Ray and Cinebench. They are also real-life analysis.

Run through an in-game benchmark to compare GPU performance.

And so on..


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> Hi,
> Results look good. The reson why you do not have all the scores is that PC mark requires WMP 10 with WM encoder 9 series. I installed them on a fresh windows XP and all the scores were obtained, also the general PC mark score...with WMP 11 no scores received on video/audio compression...try


Awesome thanks for the tip!


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

6521 Pcmark05


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Can someone post their score so I can see if mine sucks or not? Thanks!


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> 6521 Pcmark05


Hi, mine is only 4451 but with single channel memory + motherboard integrated VGA...will be upgraded to a second damn expensive KHX 1 GB + ATI HD2900 XT, then we will see. This is what I was waiting for...


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> Hi, mine is only 4451 but with single channel memory + motherboard integrated VGA...will be upgraded to a second damn expensive KHX 1 GB + ATI HD2900 XT, then we will see. This is what I was waiting for...



I here ya! Defenitly not a cheap hobby:smile:


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

George Safford said:


> 6521 Pcmark05


That's actually quite good for a non-overclocked system. :wink:


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Kalim said:


> That's actually quite good for a non-overclocked system. :wink:


Thanks it makes me feel better. Not really sure. I have seen alot of 3dmark scores but not so much on the PC side.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Hi,

Did you try overclocking? What was the highest external clock where your system remained stable?

As in my system the VGA is the bottleneck yet I went with Everest, where memory and CPU tests are without 3D.

Results attached with single channel memory. The first 4 tests are written in Hungarian. These are:
1. Memory read
2. Memory write
3. Memory copy
4. Memory latency

Look at how fast AMD is in memory handling...it is quite there at half price...


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Here are my Everest results.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Here are my Everest results.


Your system can do much more!!! I think you run your Kingstons at standard DDRII - 800MHz. Well this memory is not about that...default can be 1066 MHz plus when you overclock your CPU it will go even higher as external clock increases...there is a very noticable speed up even in general use using windows / bootup etc when you overclock memory. Get Vista and you will need it...


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> Your system can do much more!!! I think you run your Kingstons at standard DDRII - 800MHz. Well this memory is not about that...default can be 1066 MHz plus when you overclock your CPU it will go even higher as external clock increases...there is a very noticable speed up even in general use using windows / bootup etc when you overclock memory. Get Vista and you will need it...


I'm open to suggestions.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> I'm open to suggestions.


You will just need to use AI Suite which comes with your mb support CD.

In AI suite > AI booster (little flash sign) there are 5 basic mem settings. Just select 1066 Mhz, then restart will be required and you are finished with the memory. Do not worry this is a factory guaranteed setting. (it is worth checking during booting PC28500 written or after booting if the change really happened, e.g. cpuZ will indicate 533 Mhz mem frequency - in reality this is 1066)

In the same window there is also the CPU tab. Default of E6600 is 266 Mhz external clock and ratio (or multiplier) 9. This makes up the CPU speed> 266*9=2400Mhz. If there is no heavy CPU load the multiplier is downgraded to 6 making the CPU speed 1600 Mhz (power saving), this is why these new systems do not seem that much quicker in standard use. When you lanch 3D or... it is changed immediately to 9 giving speed. This is then changed back and forth automatically by the system - even during a game.

Increasing the external clock you can go above your CPU default speed. There should be no problem with 300Mhz ext cl, but it is better to go step by step... just increase by 5Mhz over 300 and see if windows loads fine / 3D apps work fine. The limit is around 340-350 Mhz, but at this stage be careful, some big heatpipe coolers are recommended for long-term use. My Silent Square keeps the CPU btw 37 and 45C with slight overclocking which IS cool...

When you overclock this way set the memory at a lower speed back to 800 or 889 Mhz as external clock freq will increase the mem freq also. You can see my Everest test, the mem ran at 1142Mhz with 288 Mhz external CPU clock. The increase from 266 to 288 increased the memory from 1066 to 1142. This way you can reach higher speed than the the factory guaranteed 1066... but at this point be careful I would not risk going higher than 1200. 

You can also try AI N.O.S. from AI suite, where just the percentage is needed to be set for overclocking and the system will increase / decrease external clock automatically based on CPU load just as the multiplier is set. Actually both are changed at the same time. This is efficient / convenient / and fast. Overall I recommend 20% AI N.O.S overclocking with 1066 memory. If you want to find your CPU max go with the manual procedure, but be careful with the mem speed in this case, do not burn them down...

P.S. in case the system hungs during overclocking default settings will be loaded at restart then prompted to go into BIOS. (for this I need to turn off the PSU due to chipset limitation , I do not think it is needed with your deluxe) In BIOS you can check all the settings above. (advanced > jumperfree config > AI tuning / DRAM freq) I prefer using BIOS for overclocking.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> You will just need to use AI Suite which comes with your mb support CD.
> 
> In AI suite > AI booster (little flash sign) there are 5 basic mem settings. Just select 1066 Mhz, then restart will be required and you are finished with the memory. Do not worry this is a factory guaranteed setting. (it is worth checking during booting PC28500 written or after booting if the change really happened, e.g. cpuZ will indicate 533 Mhz mem frequency - in reality this is 1066)
> 
> ...


Ok I'm confused. In your signature it says you are running pc8500 which already runs at 1066? You do not have the same memory as me, unless this is stating what you are running it at. I have tried running my mem at 1066 and it said no. I will give the AI thing a try. Thanks for all the help. I will experiment and get back with ya.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Ok I'm confused. In your signature it says you are running pc8500 which already runs at 1066? You do not have the same memory as me, unless this is stating what you are running it at. I have tried running my mem at 1066 and it said no. I will give the AI thing a try. Thanks for all the help. I will experiment and get back with ya.


You are right, I just searched the web and saw that there is a Hyper X which runs at 800Mhz max. I did not know that your module is that one, I thought it is the same as mine (default 1066) just downgraded to 800 (which option is still there with the 1066 version). This explains the difference in memory tests and price. Anyway, If you managed to overclock the CPU I am interested in the result.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

I set my memory to 889, like I have done before, and after about 10 minutes of BF2142 I get the blue screen of death. Memory voltage is set to 2.0 and memory is ran per SPD. I get the same thing when I do 10% on AI boost. May be a power supply issue. Help please.:sigh:


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> I set my memory to 889, like I have done before, and after about 10 minutes of BF2142 I get the blue screen of death. Memory voltage is set to 2.0 and memory is ran per SPD. I get the same thing when I do 10% on AI boost. May be a power supply issue. Help please.:sigh:


I do not think it is a power supply issue, 550W should be enough. I think you reached the limitation of the memory module, it seems will not run much faster than 800. Anyway you can still go higher with CPU speed by setting the memory 667 then try to go above 10% with AI NOS. When any setting above 10% works with windows, check the actual memory freq with cpuZ before you go into a game and you will see that it is not the setting you applied but also increased by 10% along with the CPU speed. (the mem freq indicated by cpuZ must be multiplied by 2 to get the real freq) 
So applying only 667 will be pulled back up to 800 or higher anyway by overclocking the CPU - if you do it with percentage (AI NOS) or manually (AI booster) does not matter, but to find your system max, manual setting will be needed as here you can control external clock by 1Mhz. 
If the above does not work try to increase pciE freq as well, also you can try to change the PEG link setting in the BIOS (refer to the mb manual in the BIOS chapter what it is - as far as I remember it is in the northbridge configuration menu).


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

back in a sec with the results.....


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Memory stayed at 667 or 2x333. Processor stayed at 2400. After applied AI boost 10% Standard. Should I try Sensative or Heavy load?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Interesting. I set the mem back to 800 in boost and rebooted. This action automaticly disabled the NOS?????


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

*Very annoying!!!*

Well I went into bios and set CPU to 300 X 8 which gave me 2.66 GHz; which is cool. It auto maticly set mem to 900MHz. Would not boot. I noticed going back in to bios that this puts the Front Side Bus to 1200 MHz and I'm sure this is why it is causing the no boot. How do you get the front bus back down to 1066. Man this is very annoying. I'm going to go play with it a little more.:4-dontkno


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

WOW. This time I went into AI Boost and set cpu to 8 x 300 for 2.66GHz. I set the emeory to 800MHz and PCIe to 100MHz. I hit apply and it powered off the whole computer. I did not even let Windows exit. Of course it would no longer boot or send an image to the monitor. Cleared CMOS and set everything back to the settings I had previously. Good times. I don't think I will ever get this baby to overclock. Hope you come back soon to give me some insight.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

*I must be doing something wrong.*

I have been looking at over clock articles for my board. What am I doing wrong? These guys are doing 9x400 with my processor for a 3.6GHz and a FSB of 1800 and something. What gives? Also they are keeping their Mem at 800. HOW???????


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

All I did was up my PCIe to 100MHz and after 10 minutes of playing BF2142, blue screen of death. Lets face it overclocking on this board is pointless!


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

You need to stress test when you overclock and see if your temperatures and voltages are staying within boundaries. This is the main aspect that should worry you for electrical systems.

It will cause your system unforseen damage if you don't. Achieving numbers is pointless if you chop the life of a component in 4 and have a very unstable system.

Not all boards are the same, every single one differs no matter if the same make/model. Some can go high others cannot. Yours can reach 400FSB for a definite, even if the board is bad. But how good your CPU is I have no idea of. Could be a cherry pick or a bad slum, there's no guarantee. Take it slow and wisely and you risk no damage.

But you need cooling. I suggest you read many artciles on overclocking, temperatures and stability testing before trying to overclock. One standard convention is to run Intel TAT and Prime95 or Orthos for a good few hours full load on all cores at any given frequency, and then Memtest especially Test#5, to see if it's all stable. :wink:

And though I reckon that PSU will suffice with that setup, it's a bad PSU in general which only makes matters worse.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Kalim said:


> You need to stress test when you overclock and see if your temperatures and voltages are staying within boundaries. This is the main aspect that should worry you for electrical systems.
> 
> It will cause your system unforseen damage if you don't. Achieving numbers is pointless if you chop the life of a component in 4 and have a very unstable system.
> 
> ...


PSU what do you recommend. I figured if it was SLI approved by Nvidia it should be able to handle my system seeing how I don't have SLI setup?????
Also I have this monster mounted to my processor so overclocking should not be an issue processor wise.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Kalim said:


> You need to stress test when you overclock and see if your temperatures and voltages are staying within boundaries. This is the main aspect that should worry you for electrical systems.
> 
> It will cause your system unforseen damage if you don't. Achieving numbers is pointless if you chop the life of a component in 4 and have a very unstable system.
> 
> ...


Kalim is right on the point that the CPU can be a good pick in terms of overclocking or bad. OEMs just produce processors then test them and they hit the number on them at which frequency they are stable. Only this is the difference between an E6600 and an E6700. With my old P4 I had no problem overclocking (3113 Mhz permanently instead of 2400 without any stability issues, however the CPU rated FSB was 400 and the mb supported up to 533, so there was a gap for overclocking. We do not know if those guys run an 800Mhz rated FSB CPU in a mb with 1066 Mhz support. In this case there is more space for overclocking. 

The PSU? I still do not think that is the problem however I also selected my Zalman very carefullly regarding stability and efficiency. In a PSU it is more important how much power it gives to the system than how much power it consumes. High wattage does not necessarily mean a good PSU is there can be quite a big loss. My Zalman gives from 460W consumption 408W just for the +12V - which is the most critical in terms of CPU and VGA.

Cooling - yes you will need to get some heatpipe cooler, they are not expensive an worth having a cool system.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Well, as zalaszen advised before me, the PSU needs good *stability*. It's less about how much total power it has and more about +12V sustainable loads when crossloaded or not/ripple/voltage fluctuations/heat/efficiency. That particular unit is not what I would recommend at all, however it will do the job in your case since you already have it.

I couldn't see your HSf as the image was shrunk to very small (albeit it did look very large), but even if your system is well cooled, some CPUs are just the bad ones out of the batch. :sad:

I have a QX6700 that won't go over 3300MHz on very expensive triple 120mm rad watercooling, so I know. :frown:

But that's not to shoot down your hopes. It's a matter of patience, with trial and testing. Keep playing about with it. :smile:


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Memory stayed at 667 or 2x333. Processor stayed at 2400. After applied AI boost 10% Standard. Should I try Sensative or Heavy load?


If you apply 10% it does not mean the system will allways overclock. Launch a 3D game in a window, not in full screen, launch AI suite as well and you will see how this AI suite works. If it is needed the external clock (FSB) will be increased by 10% or whatever, also the multiplier changed from 6 to 9, if not needed everything is default - so you think the system is not overclocked but it is. Standard /Heavy/Sensitive just means how fast the system will react to increased load. I suggest to go back to DDR 667 and 10% and check the settings with some load - 3D in window, then you must see the changes in both AI suite or cpuZ. The memory will also increase...just choose a setting which overall will not run your memory higher than 800 and put back the voltage to default. You can also check in bios if the timing equals the mem specs. I had to change mine manually from 5-5-5-16 (by SPD) to 5-5-5-15 (acc to datasheet) - I do not know why it was not the same....in general, for higher mem freq, timing is also suggested to be increased.

If you do not like this automatic stuff use the manual setting from AI booster or bios, then you should always see overclocked values not depending on system load. But either AI NOS or manual, the two will not work together.

Regarding the multiplier, in my system 8 cannot be applied it only seems to be available I also thought it could be loaded, I tried then I checked with cpuZ and it did not load. It is either 6 or 9 nothing in between and the system changes this.

The higher the multiplier is the better as this kind of increase does not increase/stress the FSB and the memory.

Overclocking is about patience, but for the people who do not have it was AI suite developed. And to be honest why to run a system @ 1800 Mhz FSB and the CPU over 3Ghz when you are writing mails etc... in this case the system needs to run at low speed...then jump in if there is work...


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> Kalim is right on the point that the CPU can be a good pick in terms of overclocking or bad. OEMs just produce processors then test them and they hit the number on them at which frequency they are stable. Only this is the difference between an E6600 and an E6700. With my old P4 I had no problem overclocking (3113 Mhz permanently instead of 2400 without any stability issues, however the CPU rated FSB was 400 and the mb supported up to 533, so there was a gap for overclocking. We do not know if those guys run an 800Mhz rated FSB CPU in a mb with 1066 Mhz support. In this case there is more space for overclocking.
> 
> The PSU? I still do not think that is the problem however I also selected my Zalman very carefullly regarding stability and efficiency. In a PSU it is more important how much power it gives to the system than how much power it consumes. High wattage does not necessarily mean a good PSU is there can be quite a big loss. My Zalman gives from 460W consumption 408W just for the +12V - which is the most critical in terms of CPU and VGA.
> 
> Cooling - yes you will need to get some heatpipe cooler, they are not expensive an worth having a cool system.


See above your reply to see a pic of my heatpipe cooler. On this reply also.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> See above your reply to see a pic of my heatpipe cooler. On this reply also.


OK this should be big enough....ray:


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> OK this should be big enough....ray:


Ya it works pretty well!


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Did you manage to get AI ovrclocking working? Here is how it should work. (will be sent in more parts)


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

zalaszen said:


> Did you manage to get AI ovrclocking working? Here is how it should work. (will be sent in more parts)


The second - only the multiplier changed.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

zalaszen said:


> The second - only the multiplier changed.


And 10% overclock. So within these steps the system jumps automatically, no adjustment needed...from overclock it goes back to 2.4Ghz even within a game when only new level is being loaded, so it is smart.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Ya it works pretty well!


This is not bad either with 5 heatpipes and blue led fan inside:grin:


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Yes it is working great. On the AI screen I have seen the processor running at 2.6 GHz when coming out of BF2142. Also I have had no blue screens of death. My only question is "is the full PC800 memory being utilized"?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Good morning Zalaszen and thanks for all the help!


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> This is not bad either with 5 heatpipes and blue led fan inside:grin:


Yup that one looks like a winner! I like the blue too.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> And 10% overclock. So within these steps the system jumps automatically, no adjustment needed...from overclock it goes back to 2.4Ghz even within a game when only new level is being loaded, so it is smart.


WOW awesome temps also. Well I guess I need to pop my cooler off. When I installed it I did alot of sliding around and I don't think there is sufficient Arctic Silver between the 2. Your using liquid cooling though, right?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Right now just doing this my system temp is 31 and my processor is 40. What do you think? I have started the Intel TAT and I'm going to go play 10 minutes and check out my temps. I'll be back to post temps.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Well I played for 30 minutes and the highest the processors got were 51 and 52C. What do you think?


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Leave TAT or run Orthos for an hour 100% loaded on both cores. Then check and report your temps.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Kalim said:


> Leave TAT or run Orthos for an hour 100% loaded on both cores. Then check and report your temps.


What can I run that will maintain 100% on both cores?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

I got it. These are temps 5 minutes into it.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

George Safford said:


> What can I run that will maintain 100% on both cores?


In regards to this and the post below: It seems OK so far. But like I said, not for 5 minutes, 60 minutes.

And have *Speedfan* and *Core Temp* downloaded/installed to cross-check on your temps. Internal DTS temps are not what the usual software we are conventionally versed in used to report, so these will usually be 10-15C higher than the temperature you _*really*_ need to worry about.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

It has been running for over 2 hours and they never went over 55C. So is that good? Should I take everything apart and clean up and reapply my Silver paste?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

After 2 hours.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

I think I'm pretty happy with this. Amazing I can still do everything else and not feel any effect or slow down or hasitation.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> WOW awesome temps also. Well I guess I need to pop my cooler off. When I installed it I did alot of sliding around and I don't think there is sufficient Arctic Silver between the 2. Your using liquid cooling though, right?


No, standard air, with Titan's silver grease. What it takes is the 5 heatpipes.

But do not worry temp does not always stay around 37. Running Everest CPU tests it makes 45, but this was the max I saw, however Kalim is right when you run sg for hours???....


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

More pics of front bus and memory MHz.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> No, standard air, with Titan's silver grease. What it takes is the 5 heatpipes.
> 
> But do not worry temp does not always stay around 37. Running Everest CPU tests it makes 45, but this was the max I saw, however Kalim is right when you run sg for hours???....


Um mine has 6 pipes. I really moving it around too much has messed with the grease and it is running hotter then it should be.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Um mine has 6 pipes. I really moving it around too much has messed with the grease and it is running hotter then it should be.


No , you have 3 pipes, because the two sides belong to the same pipe.

If I count your way I have 10 pipes (5 on each side)...:grin:, but not joking officially I have 5...


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> More pics of front bus and memory MHz.


That is very good to see...actually you can increase the FSB further up as now your mem is at 733 and there should be no problem up to 800.

What is the setting now 15% AI overcklock or manual? If you want to go towards 3Ghz CPU, it is possible that you will need to lower the memory to 533, as you see it is increased back up with FSB. Now you know how to do it so have fun and pay attention not to stress the mem over 800 in use and on the CPU temp. I guess around 50 it is normal.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> That is very good to see...actually you can increase the FSB further up as now your mem is at 733 and there should be no problem up to 800.
> 
> What is the setting now 15% AI overcklock or manual? If you want to go towards 3Ghz CPU, it is possible that you will need to lower the memory to 533, as you see it is increased back up with FSB. Now you know how to do it so have fun and pay attention not to stress the mem over 800 in use and on the CPU temp. I guess around 50 it is normal.


Actually I only have it set to 10%, so I will knock the mem down to 533 and try 15%. Thanks.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Everything looks fine to me, you should be able to hit 3GHz easily by the looks of that. :wink:

One thing: do you change your desktop wallpaper every other hour or do you have separate screens/screen virtualization software?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Kalim said:


> Everything looks fine to me, you should be able to hit 3GHz easily by the looks of that. :wink:
> 
> One thing: do you change your desktop wallpaper every other hour or do you have separate screens/screen virtualization software?


I use www.webshots.com and I have it set to change every 30 minutes. It is a great program.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> WOW awesome temps also. Well I guess I need to pop my cooler off. When I installed it I did alot of sliding around and I don't think there is sufficient Arctic Silver between the 2. Your using liquid cooling though, right?


I think actually it is good when you do a lot of sliding around with the cooler as it squeezes the unecessary grease out.

When I installed the grease I made it flat with a small piece of hard paper on the full surface of the CPU, not just leaving a big chunk in the middle, as it can happen that not the full processor surface gets covered - which you cannot chek.

After the thin even layer I pressed the cooler on, moved a little bit while kept pressing. When I felt metal on metal and I did not feel sliding I secured the clamp. This is important, the two metal surfaces must touch each other, the grease is needed only to fill the microscopic layer where would be air.

The Asus thermal paste herdened before I made this thin layer and was too hard overall to be squeezed out. I do not know why it hardened, it was not even grease, so cleaned all out and used the Titan.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Actually I only have it set to 10%, so I will knock the mem down to 533 and try 15%. Thanks.


I think for 15% 667 should be OK. Maybe for 20% or higher (only manually) you will need to lower to 533. If the memory is set too low you just lose speed, so the target to keep around the 800Mhz optimum, but try and you will see...

OK it is 2 a.m. here so I go to bed, have fun


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> I think for 15% 667 should be OK. Maybe for 20% or higher (only manually) you will need to lower to 533. If the memory is set too low you just lose speed, so the target to keep around the 800Mhz optimum, but try and you will see...
> 
> OK it is 2 a.m. here so I go to bed, have fun


Thanks to all and I will go do some experimenting and post back later. 3 am where are you writing from Zalaszen?


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Thanks to all and I will go do some experimenting and post back later. 3 am where are you writing from Zalaszen?


I am writing from Hungary... (central - eastern Europe), currently from work:grin: Which time zone are you writing from? What about Kalim?


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

zalaszen said:


> I am writing from Hungary... (central - eastern Europe), currently from work:grin: Which time zone are you writing from? What about Kalim?


Sorry my time zone is GMT+1hour


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Central US time. I'm in Wichita Kansas atleast for another year. I retire from the Air Force next summer and then I move home to Vermont.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

*Riddle me this?*

With my system overclocked 10% I got a score of 6385 and with it not overclocked I got a 65??. Does this make any sense to anyone? It sure does not to me. I know my Memory timings are turned up quite a bite for overclocking is that is?


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

zalaszen said:


> I am writing from Hungary... (central - eastern Europe), currently from work:grin: Which time zone are you writing from? What about Kalim?


I was about to say (had no time) that you were n Bulgaria. :grin:

I'm in Germany right now (work), but will be in UK in a few hours. 



George Safford said:


> With my system overclocked 10% I got a score of 6385 and with it not overclocked I got a 65??. Does this make any sense to anyone? It sure does not to me. I know my Memory timings are turned up quite a bite for overclocking is that is?


Change the RAM timings using Memset 2.0 (drop them, but this is best done when you have found the best overclock you would like to keep) - memory timings make a *big* difference in most synthetic benchmarks and overall system perfromance.

The score shouldn't be lower though.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

*Re: Riddle me this?*



George Safford said:


> With my system overclocked 10% I got a score of 6385 and with it not overclocked I got a 65??. Does this make any sense to anyone? It sure does not to me. I know my Memory timings are turned up quite a bite for overclocking is that is?


Hi,

As I wrote earlier, with 10% oc your memory is at 733. Well this is lower than the factory preset 800. If you go with 15% and 667 default memory, real mem speed should be 767, then if you go with 20% oveclock and 667 default memory, real speed shoul be 800.4 Mhz >> this is what you need, it will make the CPU run @2.88 Ghz it is quite good and still safe. I just grabbed a calculator, and this is what it says. Make some experiment, but I think you really need the 20% and 667 setting. 

If you want to go extreme high with the CPU choose 533 for the memory, then you will need 50% overclock to pull the memory back up to 799.5 . Do not forget it is the target to keep your memory near 800Mhz otherwise speed is lost. This should make the CPU run at 3.6 Ghz. For this the only possibility to set the external clock manually at 399 Mhz, but I do not have experience with this degree of overclocking and I question if it will work. The max I achieved was from 2.4 to 3.1 but not with this CPU and mb. Of course there are steps in between 20% and 50%....

I promise I will try my max as soon as ATI's new HD series DX10 is finalized (in the coming 1-2 months) because currently my onboard VGA is a big bottleneck in my system in terms of increasing FSB and memory. The 1142 mem speed was achieved with some big crashes of VGA as it uses the system memory for graphics. This is why I posted Everest tests as 3D tests fail above the memory speed of 840 Mhz, they simply won't start....:4-dontkno


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Kalim said:


> I was about to say (had no time) that you were n Bulgaria. :grin:
> 
> I'm in Germany right now (work), but will be in UK in a few hours.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Why Bulgaria??

Just one more comment on the score difference, it is PC mark.... I never got the same score, and in some cases they were not even similar... the best score was always received after new boot... 

Anyway Everest results always reflected setting changes in the most reliable way so I rather trust in this one and stopped running PC mark....good that we are running a PC mark thread....:grin:


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

I already had my instincts that you're writing from mid Europe somewhere. At first I thought Czech or Belgium and lastly, when I pondered at the username I thought Bulgaria. :grin:

Just something many years of experience shapes us towards clues.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Kalim said:


> I already had my instincts that you're writing from mid Europe somewhere. At first I thought Czech or Belgium and lastly, when I pondered at the username I thought Bulgaria. :grin:
> 
> Just something many years of experience shapes us towards clues.


Well my username is a mixture of 3 words - does not mean anything and it has nothing to do with my name. Therefore I was surprised it looks Bulgarian...:grin:

Otherwise Belgium is not mid of Europe...but Czech Republic was almost a hit, it is a neighbouring country from the north.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Too OT for me to continue (PM/offline stuff), sorry, even though you'll find I know where Belgium is just fine. :wink:

You said you're waiting for ATI HD DX10 series when it's "finalized" in the coming 1-2 months. What do you mean?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

ATI's answer to Nvidia's 8800GTX powerhouse!


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Well I'm at 15% which gives me 2750 on both processors and over 1223 on the FSB. Did not check out the memory. My temps jumped to 59C. I will most likly put my second fan back on and see if it helps. 760MHz on Memory. Will post when fan is on.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Kalim said:


> Too OT for me to continue (PM/offline stuff), sorry, even though you'll find I know where Belgium is just fine. :wink:
> 
> You said you're waiting for ATI HD DX10 series when it's "finalized" in the coming 1-2 months. What do you mean?


Maybe the HD2900XT is out and performs as expected, but for sure the HD 2900XTX is not fully optimized... and the driver is not 100%, it must beat 8800GTX or even the Ultra, this is what I meant.

Just the power consumption is an issue:sigh:. When I picked my PSU I made sure it will meet the next generation graphics cards (that time only 8800 info was available saying the GTX requires 30A on the two+12V and 450W is enough, well when I saw the pciE 8 pin connector on ATI HD2900XT and read the reviews I almost got a heart attack that I can thow my new PSU away...

I just want to wait until the final XTX is out then make a decision whether 2900XT or XTX, but if I go with the latter I may need a new PSU.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Well I'm at 15% which gives me 2750 on both processors and over 1223 on the FSB. Did not check out the memory. My temps jumped to 59C. I will most likly put my second fan back on and see if it helps. 760MHz on Memory. Will post when fan is on.


You will have no problem with 20%, the number on memory is not much far from what I said. If you are at 20, drop an everest test to me please, but try to get the Ultimate 4.0, also use max cooling at this point. Your CPU fans are PWRM controlled?


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

I just got my new company laptop today and finished with benchmarking.

Results attached, no possibility on overcklocking on this one...but not bad 1.66 GHz core 2 DUO / 1G DDRII 667 / 60G HDD / I945GM express - again integrated graphics, as you can see not for gaming...


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

The R600 XT is not as good as touted for long - but it does complete with the G80GTX and especially when overclocked - it can go quite high with watercooling or anything more extreme. The XTX releasing by Sapphire (etc) is just not anywhere near as good. The new optimized version to be out is said to be the R650 - 65nm instead.

If you've seen any modern reviews (one coming up after dreamhack) with the latest drivers, then you'll see the performance for the XT is very good, especially for the package and definitely CrossFire scaling. And the power consumption is set to rise, that's the whole point of Intel, nV and AMD pressuring PCI SIG to upgrade the specs for their new planned graphics architectures. That's also why you have more and more powerful PSUs releasing (which cost very much to manufacturer and retail when the quality is good), and the main buzz word for them is DX10 optimization, DX10 full game coding and GPU driver coding. As soon as that hits a good peak, the power consumption will probably rocket.

Already, you can pull more than 200W peak with a stock BFG G80GTX in SLI (each) looping 3DMark06. Although it's very unsafe to, it can happen for momentary scales. The average peak is near the 160W mark for a user. The R600XT is much more of a power hungry beast though. :sigh:


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

still 6331 with 15% overclocked. I don't get it?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

6521 no overclocking, 6385 at 10% and 6331 at 15%???? Does this sound @$$ backwards to anyone else?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

I ran pcmark05 again with everything set back to normal and got 6575. Any other benchmarking programs that would make me think overclocking is worth it?


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> I ran pcmark05 again with everything set back to normal and got 6575. Any other benchmarking programs that would make me think overclocking is worth it?


I tell you, run Everest and you will see the difference in benchmarks. PC mark is more than half an hour to run, then you get weird results... I had the same...


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Kalim said:


> The R600 XT is not as good as touted for long - but it does complete with the G80GTX and especially when overclocked - it can go quite high with watercooling or anything more extreme. The XTX releasing by Sapphire (etc) is just not anywhere near as good. The new optimized version to be out is said to be the R650 - 65nm instead.
> 
> If you've seen any modern reviews (one coming up after dreamhack) with the latest drivers, then you'll see the performance for the XT is very good, especially for the package and definitely CrossFire scaling. And the power consumption is set to rise, that's the whole point of Intel, nV and AMD pressuring PCI SIG to upgrade the specs for their new planned graphics architectures. That's also why you have more and more powerful PSUs releasing (which cost very much to manufacturer and retail when the quality is good), and the main buzz word for them is DX10 optimization, DX10 full game coding and GPU driver coding. As soon as that hits a good peak, the power consumption will probably rocket.
> 
> Already, you can pull more than 200W peak with a stock BFG G80GTX in SLI (each) looping 3DMark06. Although it's very unsafe to, it can happen for momentary scales. The average peak is near the 160W mark for a user. The R600XT is much more of a power hungry beast though. :sigh:


I think my Zalman could take the 2900XT without problem, there is an option to use the standard pciE 6 pin connectors (x2) with default clocks, but then how can I overclock??? Why I prefer ATI is ATI tool, it really overclocks quite easy. 

How can you get the 8 pin connector? From a HDD cable converted? I do not think that any PSU makers have come out with the 8 pin so far.... yes I read about the pciE 2.0 standard at the beginning of this year, but it will take some time while it shows up on the market, then I will not change my system again...this is a never ending story.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

I have a 4 pin to 8 pin cable used for going from P4 power to the new 775 ATX 8 pin standard. I'm sure you could use that. Everest only has Memory benchmarks right? Atleast that is all mine has.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

zalaszen said:


> I think my Zalman could take the 2900XT without problem, there is an option to use the standard pciE 6 pin connectors (x2) with default clocks, but then how can I overclock??? Why I prefer ATI is ATI tool, it really overclocks quite easy.


The HD2900XT can draw 225W alone, already been done. Overclocked, it will obviously be more, especially if you increase VGPU. The 2x 6-pin PCIe combined for overclocking works for some, like it did for Marcus.



> How can you get the 8 pin connector?


Email your PSU MFG *when* you need it. Many are supplying them but are very short of stock so they appease that you only ask if you need it. I don't personally know if Zalman is giving them away.



> I do not think that any PSU makers have come out with the 8 pin so far....


Quite a lot of them have actually, more than ten. All the latest PSUs have them and many of those that made the PSU for retail before the standard specs finalized are releasing cables for them, like PCP&C. 



> yes I read about the pciE 2.0 standard at the beginning of this year, but it will take some time while it shows up on the market, then I will not change my system again...this is a never ending story.


AMD/Intel already has some chipset boards releasing in a month or 2 with them. Intel especially is pushing PCIe 2.0 and DDR3 right now. :wink:



George Safford said:


> I have a 4 pin to 8 pin cable used for going from P4 power to the new 775 ATX 8 pin standard. I'm sure you could use that.


You'll blow your system up. :wink:

They are wired oppositely, ground to live, live to ground.



> Everest only has Memory benchmarks right? Atleast that is all mine has.


Download EVEREST Ultimate trial - it's more accurate than all the previous ones and will have many more benchmarks.

Run Cinebench or SYSMark 2007. EVEREST Home has too many flaws to count, I know from experience. The above though are real life benches to compare performance.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Here is my ultimate report! Pretty good I think.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> I have a 4 pin to 8 pin cable used for going from P4 power to the new 775 ATX 8 pin standard. I'm sure you could use that. Everest only has Memory benchmarks right? Atleast that is all mine has.


That is the 12V ATX for the CPU. I have the 8 pin coming out of the PSU to the mb for the CPU of course which needs both, but there are also 2 x 6pin pciE connectors for the VGA on one main cable. This meant to support SLI, but the 8800 cards require both plugged into the same card as there are 2x6pin connectors on the PCBA. Now the problem comes with ATI as on the 2900XT there is one 6pin + one 8pin. The secondary 6pin connector on the cable can be plugged into the 8 pin socket on the VGA, but for everclocking the 8 pin pciE is recommended. Now this I guess should be converted from one (or two) free HDD connector or???

Regarding Everest >> look at the reports I submitted, there are quite a few CPU tests which will warm it up...check. Download Everest Ultimate 4.0. If some fields are hidden because of the trial version...


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Here is my ultimate report at15% overclock and now I see the difference.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> That is the 12V ATX for the CPU. I have the 8 pin coming out of the PSU to the mb for the CPU of course which needs both, but there are also 2 x 6pin pciE connectors for the VGA on one main cable. This meant to support SLI, but the G80 cards require both plugged into the same card as there are 2x6pin connectors on the PCBA. Now the problem comes with ATI as on the 2900XT there is one 6pin + one 8pin. The secondary 6pin connector on the cable can be plugged into the 8 pin socket on the VGA, but for everclocking the 8 pin pciE is recommended. Now this I guess should be converted from one (or two) free HDD connector or???


I have overstepped my knowledge boundry, so I will let someone else field this one.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> I have overstepped my knowledge boundry, so I will let someone else field this one.


Check the picture above, I was still editing. Well the Everest results look quite good. If you go with 20% you will beat the 4xXeon in Photo Worxx....
As you see the changes now with Everest, you also see how reliable PC mark is:grin:

Again good conclusion in a PC mark thread...:laugh:


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> Check the picture above, I was still editing. Well the Everest results look quite good. If you go with 20% you will beat the 4xXeon in Photo Worxx....
> As you see the changes now with Everest, you also see how reliable PC mark is:grin:
> 
> Again good conclusion in a PC mark thread...:laugh:



6 and an 8 on ATI crazy!


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> 6 and an 8 on ATI crazy!


Yes the first releases were dual six like the 8800 series, but for overclocking it needs the 8... overall wattage of 210W only for the VGA. pciE slot gives 70W one 6 pin pciE connector again about 70W, the second again about 70W...CRAZY:upset: This is why I got stucked, whether to wait for the 65 nm 2900XTX the R650??? as I do intend to change my PSU. The 65 nm technology will have a much lower consumption. The 2600XT is 65 nm and total wattage is 70, no external connector required...


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Nice results George, that's more like it. I believe 3GHz should be your aim. :sayyes:

I'd wait for the 65nm version too zalaszen, infact *I am *waiting for it. :chgrin:

The HDD connectors can be converted, but it depends how they're wired up on each PSU. They have to be able to support a high power draw on each rail that is either separate or sufficient from the +12V rail powering the CPU and MB. They probably won't be powerful enough if being on the same rail as other components (unless single railed), with no transient filtering on the cables that is required and the cable thickness may also be a factor to PSU performance.

People often don't realize, that if you have a underpowered PSU, you get less wattage drawn from it by the hardware, and that comes with equally *less* performance aswell.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

*New card?*

EVGA 8800GTS 640 or 8800GTX 728?


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

George Safford said:


> EVGA 8800GTS 640 or 8800GTX 728?


Do you mean you want to upgrade to any one of these now or are you asking me what the 65nm reference was for?

If it was the 65nm, then we meant the HD 2900XT tweak/upgrade in the 65nm form.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Nope I mean upgrade wise......


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

The GTX by *far*. XFX usually has the best oc'd one if you have ample cash.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Kalim said:


> The GTX by *far*. XFX usually has the best oc'd one if you have ample cash.


I'm going to stick with EVGA because they have excellent support staff and product. Not to mention a lifetime replacement policy.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Here are my results almost @3GHz, but lets award it as a 3GHz overclock.

I got so upset about what my system can do (as I mentioned the onboard VGA was the bottleneck), that I jumped into a store and bought a Gainward 8600 GT 512M, 540/1400, which could be easily pulled to 700/1600, no stability issues and no artifacts. Gainward bundles the Expert tool which is their overclocking application as Gainwar overall very good in using high quality parts, especially their golden sample cards. It will suite until a good ATI is out.

One question regarding the CPU. My limit was 328 Mhz external clock, but I could achieve it with continuous increase of the pciE clock only. With this one I could reach 120 without problem (option is 90-150) then at 121 the bios could not recognise either of the SATA devices. When I set back to 120, recognized again. WHY? What does it have anything to do with pciE clock settings. I have a feeling that if I could increase the pciE clock further I could go higher up...I want to hit the 3G minimum. Just a little missing...:wink:

Result will be submitted in more parts, regardingPCmark 05, there is no score again , so we are back at the beginning of the thread:grin:. But do not worry I installed everything required, it is just Vista for sure. Every second application has compatibility issues with Vista, drives me crazy:upset: especially with the 64 bit


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Everest speaks for itself, the VGA, it is not an 8800...


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

And the 3 Dmark tests.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Very Nice! That 8600 does pretty well. I will post my scores when my 8800GTS 640 when it gets here. I love Gainward's Golden samples also very nice reliable cards.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Very Nice! That 8600 does pretty well. I will post my scores when my 8800GTS 640 when it gets here. I love Gainward's Golden samples also very nice reliable cards.


OK, I am pretty much interested in what an 8800 can do in your system, overall our systems are quite similar. I am courios what this 8600 GT will do in Crysis, as that is the only game I am waiting for (I am not an all time gamer just when something really cool s out there), and that was the reason of my PC change this spring. I will also get a high end VGA as this one is for my nephew who will take with him after the summer holiday is over and I had to have a VGA for trying what my system can do max CPU wise. I will still investigate why hard drives lost above 121Mhz pciE frequency. Maybe Kalim could help here. 

Otherwise I was surprised on this Gainward how easily overclocks and there was not much performance drop from 1280x1024 to 1600x1200. Maybe it is the 512MB memory??also this is the silent FX version with a huge passive cooler, even the memories are with passive cooling on both sides so no noise Here is a closer view (cellphone taken...). Good thing I picked this one as the 256 Mb golden sample is clocked at 600/1600, well this GPU could be pulled over that, @700 and the 1600 with the memory could also be reached.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Never seen a high performance card be passive before, but you are right it is a massive cooler. I will also be curious what the GTS will do for our systems. I'm also picking up anoth 2 GIG of memory for a total of 4 Gig and then I will be done.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Kalim said:


> Nice results George, that's more like it. I believe 3GHz should be your aim. :sayyes:
> 
> I'd wait for the 65nm version too zalaszen, infact *I am *waiting for it. :chgrin:
> 
> ...


Yes I figured out that the two pciE connectors should be on two different rails. If I think about it, I need the second pciE slot on the card to be supplied from a HDD anyway as the two pciE connectors on one rail and the 2900 XT would just burn the cable down...:smile:


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Well I'm at 15% which gives me 2750 on both processors and over 1223 on the FSB. Did not check out the memory. My temps jumped to 59C. I will most likly put my second fan back on and see if it helps. 760MHz on Memory. Will post when fan is on.


As you could see from the screensot in the word doc I attached my temp also jumped to 58~59 C at 2978 MHz with optimal fan setting (PWRM controlled). When I overclocked the VGA I set the fans to performance to have max airfow in the chassis , but did not check the CPU temp though.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> OK, I am pretty much interested in what an 8800 can do in your system, overall our systems are quite similar. I am courios what this 8600 GT will do in Crysis, as that is the only game I am waiting for (I am not an all time gamer just when something really cool s out there), and that was the reason of my PC change this spring. I will also get a high end VGA as this one is for my nephew who will take with him after the summer holiday is over and I had to have a VGA for trying what my system can do max CPU wise. I will still investigate why hard drives lost above 121Mhz pciE frequency. Maybe Kalim could help here.
> 
> Otherwise I was surprised on this Gainward how easily overclocks and there was not much performance drop from 1280x1024 to 1600x1200. Maybe it is the 512MB memory??also this is the silent FX version with a huge passive cooler, even the memories are with passive cooling on both sides so no noise Here is a closer view (cellphone taken...). Good thing I picked this one as the 256 Mb golden sample is clocked at 600/1600, well this GPU could be pulled over that, @700 and the 1600 with the memory could also be reached.


I forgot to say HELL YA to playing CRYSIS, can't wait!


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

zalaszen said:


> OK, I am pretty much interested in what an 8800 can do in your system, overall our systems are quite similar. I am courios what this 8600 GT will do in Crysis, as that is the only game I am waiting for (I am not an all time gamer just when something really cool s out there),[...]


Crysis is G80GTX/GTS optimized. It runs both very well, but I know as of early June, the HD2900XT was 4 FPS ahead of the G80GTX in it.

My 15 YO nephew is also waiting to get a system for playing Crysis, mainly. I've told him to wait for choosing between any new GPU ATI makes or the HD2900XT - as the price/performance and multi-GPU scaling on these is unbelievably class. This is why we need the new AMD chipset boards to come out too, and we might aswell wait for the Agena and Agena FX. I already know that the Agena desktop beats the C2D clock-for-clock, so the time waiting isn't wasted, unless none of the cores can reach reach 3500MHz. :wink:


> I will still investigate why hard drives lost above 121Mhz pciE frequency.


If you mess with the PCIe/PCI/AGP frequency, you risk losing a HDD inside a day or two of continual use. Most LN2 oc'ers will not take it above 115. I'm telling you that from long experience and some very recent experience too - as in, only 16 days back I lost 3 HDDs like this. :frown:

The PLL timers that control the clock signal on the MB will increase the data rate on your SATA/PATA drives, making them become erratic. You will need very good HDD cooling, as the HDD will start overheating internally, as in too hot for adequate use. But this isn't the main caveat. The fact that the HDD cannot accept such speeds, is what causes it's corruption. You will start to get many data read/write errors (overall throughput decrease), drive will start using up a lot of CPU usage and this starts corrupting the drive sectors one by one. It most probably will also make your system restart by itself or hang.

If you ever try this (if you feel daring enough or have a spare drive to test with), with Speedfan check the SMART status, with the online analysis it links to. Make sure the drive is very good-excellent.

Then throw the frequency higher (workable) and use it for gaming or video encoding, and benchmarking PCMark, 3DMark, Cinebench, POV-RAY, EVEREST, Sandra (etc). After 3 days of continual use (if it's still alive), open up the SMART status again, click the online analysis link and compare the condition. See how many *reallocated and corrupt sectors you have, aswell as drive fitness*.

It maybe down to 40% and bootup may be 1 minutes long. :sigh:

Take care with touching the PCIe frequency. Most individuals will leave it alone as it's so unpredictable and will damage your MB/hardware very quickly - many have never regained a bugless system after increasing it past 115. Depends on the MB in the end though.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Thanks for the tips, do not worry I do not use my system like this permanently, it is just for benchmarking. I would like to hit 3.2~3.4 GHz once or see the really max of my system if I put this way, then it is over. I run 5% AI overclock long term, which is safe. I also heard from a friend to keep the PCIE voltage at the minimum to avoid burning the VGA down. Maybe this is the reason why my system hungs above 5% AI NOS, only manual setting is OK for going higher, contrary to George who managed to use 15% Ai oc. I just noted that there is a SATA/PCIE voltage adjustment possibility in the BIOS and it only becomes active with AI NOS mode on, I guess it is for stopping the system increasing everything like hell when it is auto-overclocked by 20%. Will do some experimenting and come back with the result.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

I guess I almost burnt the VGA down... reaching 121Mhz on several trials of loading finally the system did not lose the the SATA drives, then I could increase CPU clock further to 330 Mhz. All tests successfully ran, but when I tried 331 after some trials of booting when windows loaded the desktop all got those coloured spots (but big time, half of desktop lost) like what you get when the VGA memory is overclocked beyond the frequency it can take... (Visa using 3D for the Aero even with desktop). I got so scared that I turned off the PSU at the back immediately, did not even wait for shutdown...good emergency switch:grin:


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

*ATI rage pro turbo?*

So does anyone want to see my score with this baby? I'm in hell till my new card gets here. Oh ya and it is a PCI card. Very scary!! Oh ya anyone have a driver lying around for this? I searched the net with no luck.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Oh ya anyone have a driver lying around for this? I searched the net with no luck.


Check here: http://list.driverguide.com/list/company127/index.html

Sorry guys all 3 keyboards aren't working or installing drivers on my system anymore. :sad:


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Kalim said:


> Check here: http://list.driverguide.com/list/company127/index.html
> 
> Sorry guys all 3 keyboards aren't working or installing drivers on my system anymore. :sad:


>> sorry I do not catch the meaning of this one??


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Sounds like he was having issues with his keyboard drivers and this is why it took him so long to get back with us.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Yea, I went on duty towards a country where zalaszen is, and was given 2 systems to work with; one for strictly work running some rendering, calculations, hosting and simulations 24/7 and my other for communication, documentational and extra activities like posting here or emails. The OS keyboard driver suddenly corrupt on it and now the OS fails to install any keyboard driver, though the ports are fully working and so are the keyboards (ran all diagnostics).

I posted using onscreen keyboard earlier. I have no keyboard but onscreen, unless I use Linux LiveCD or UBCD4Win at display resolution of 800x600. :frown:


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

zalaszen said:


> OK, I am pretty much interested in what an 8800 can do in your system, overall our systems are quite similar. I am courios what this 8600 GT will do in Crysis, as that is the only game I am waiting for (I am not an all time gamer just when something really cool s out there), and that was the reason of my PC change this spring. I will also get a high end VGA as this one is for my nephew who will take with him after the summer holiday is over and I had to have a VGA for trying what my system can do max CPU wise. I will still investigate why hard drives lost above 121Mhz pciE frequency. Maybe Kalim could help here.
> 
> Otherwise I was surprised on this Gainward how easily overclocks and there was not much performance drop from 1280x1024 to 1600x1200. Maybe it is the 512MB memory??also this is the silent FX version with a huge passive cooler, even the memories are with passive cooling on both sides so no noise Here is a closer view (cellphone taken...). Good thing I picked this one as the 256 Mb golden sample is clocked at 600/1600, well this GPU could be pulled over that, @700 and the 1600 with the memory could also be reached.


It will be here Monday and I will post then...ray:


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

No succes of further increasing the pciE freq than 121. With this setting max CPU core was 330. Results attached. Funny, but no matter how many different setting I tried (frequency combinations, voltage combinations not only on Vcore, but also on SB, NB, FSB, ICH8, PCIE) nothing worked further up, as I could not increase the pciE 121+ without SATA drives lost:upset:

At least I managed to get AI overclocking working, because my windows always hang above 5% at the progress bar... 

Playing with voltages gave me an idea what about if I nail all the voltages to stock apart fom vcore to fix AI overclocking problem, as I suspected the system puts too high voltage on nb /sb /fsb etc. Well it worked 

Windows loading was OK at 20%, all tests successful, which means that the system is now able to overclock itself depending on workload up to 2.88GHz without touching anything...Actually this is even more important than having a high peak all time even if it is not needed, like writing this thread... As you can see external clock is chaged within application while it is running (individual everest tests), resulting FSB / memrory speed increase - decrease automtically. I like this AI stuff... but check this out...http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=115217


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> It will be here Monday and I will post then...ray:



OK looking forward to...


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

zalaszen said:


> As you can see external clock is chaged within application while it is running (individual everest tests), resulting FSB / memrory speed increase - decrease automtically. I like this AI stuff... but check this out...http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=115217


That's a good 'ol starters guide we once used as we do everything manually. :wink:

For learning it's always best to start auto OC and then make it more and more manually configured day by day.

For those that want to keep their system components and weren't born Paris Hilton brothers that is. :grin:


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

Kalim said:


> That's a good 'ol starters guide we once used as we do everything manually. :wink:


I see the other way around and design engineers also see this way >> why to run a system full throttle all time when not needed?? Is it smart to write an e-mail with E6600 clocked at 3GHz? NO :wink: Then going back and forth BIOS changing settings depending on the tasks someone wants to do? 

I used to do everything manually in the past as I did not have other option. Of course it would have been very good to hit 3.4 GHz or so for a benchmark no doubt on that, but just ONCE, for sure using such a setting permanently would make me feel bad, even the 3GHz wich I reached...maybe I just worry about wasting electricity and global warming too much...:grin: 



Kalim said:


> For learning it's always best to start auto OC and then make it more and more manually configured day by day.


There is nothing more that can be configured on my board, it has onboard graphics and I reached its chipset limitations in terms of speed. However I will change it only when there is one with 40% AI NOS:wink: I have become too convenient.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

Well, that's a personal choice, and arguments for both sides exist in the plenty. For a person like me, I don't OC if I'm only emailing/browsing => pointless.

I use a 1GHz, 1.3GHz or 3GHz for any such tasks, unless time critical and professional work.

The only reason the systems are OC'd for me is if the Head of Lab Engineer decides it, he and their team run the testing and analyzing, strengthen the components, change the configurations around and I finally use the numbers if I can't better them (since the team has limited time).

And all that has dramatic importance to time/cost and near enough 24/7 performance, hence there's no time it'll be idling to waste in my scenario. :wink:

Using the CnQ or EIST features for cooler/slower CPU and on demand boost is something I utilize myself.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

*8800 Gtx?*

I really do not see the need to overclock the 8800 GTX. Something with soooo much power really does not need to be overclocked. Does everyone feel the same?


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

George Safford said:


> I really do not see the need to overclock the 8800 GTX. Something with soooo much power really does not need to be overclocked. Does everyone feel the same?


Not everyone is a gamer, so they differ. If you were to run a few million physics simulations a day, you'd know what I mean. :wink:

There's no point in those after overclocking the G80GTX just for "numbers" though. They're just mighty extravagant and love wasting cash. :grin:


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

you name it I play it. FEAR, Quake 4, BF2, BF2142, COD2, UT 03 and 04, doom3 etc....


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

I could tell ya that I've never gamed on this PC I'm using right now and listed in my profile, and neither any of the last four that I've received for work lately.

The only games I played were stated in an offline thread on this forum, just for mellowness, and I'm no gamer by any means. That was also on a different system, an old P4 2.8GHz @ 3700MHz.

My nephew has though, used the _older_ system I have for gaming, lying in the UK right now. My _other_ elder nephew (17) also used a system I have back in the States for some gaming, usually only D3D10 games because his system cannot run them sufficiently. :wink:

DX10 games and applications need much more powerful GPUs than we have at present.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Man what a monster this thing is. My PC marks only went up to 7060. I will post 3d marks in a sec.....


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

3dmark06 10070.


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## Kalim (Nov 24, 2006)

George Safford said:


> 3dmark06 10070.


What frequencies and RAM timings?

What was your CPU score?


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Kalim said:


> What frequencies and RAM timings?
> 
> What was your CPU score?


CPU is running at 2400 and ram is all 4's and 12.
I'm at work so will post cpu score later.


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

George Safford said:


> 3dmark06 10070.


New power supply scored 10101, all stock settings


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> New power supply scored 10101, all stock settings


Hi Guys,

I lost the thread, somehow my mail notifications stopped which I always received when there was a reply, why???


George, first I thought you got a GTS taking a look at the score, but I saw in your system config that it was a GTX. It should perform better isn`t it? A friend of mine clocked his GTS 640M in the VGA bios (hardware OC - the first time I heard...) so high that it reached more than 10K. Did EVGA bundled some kind of overclocking tool for the VGA? A software OC should be safe...

I think 2.4 GHz for the CPU is too slow. Running these E6600s around 3GHz does not mean any stress I have te feeling. I have been using 20% AI all time, having 2.88GHz peak, there is absolutely no problem...this wold push up your numbers, just for the sake of numbers...

I think I made up my mind regarding the VGA I do not think I can wait until ATI`s 65nm technology is out in the high end. Diamond issued one 2900XT with 1G GDDR4 2200MHz effective stock value!!! man this can be a fast monster, no any benchmark seen with this one so far..., price not bad 500$. Recommended PSU 750W or better:grin: >>http://www.diamondmm.com/HD2900.php interesting that Diamond is still alive, the last time I heard about them was the Voodoo series (in my first computer there was a 3DFX Voodoo I. called Diamond Monster... woo, scary...) If you think about development what will be there 8-10 years from now???

MSI and GECUBE introduced DUAL GPU 2600XTs (65nm) on Computex http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/msi-rx2600-geminium/, it would be very interesting to see what these can do??? No news about when they would be available in retail, damn MSI and GECUBE, no any benchmarks...:upset:but the card is bigger than a 2900XT:grin:


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Back in the day I had a Diamond Stealth Extreme. Man that was a while ago.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Man what a monster this thing is. My PC marks only went up to 7060. I will post 3d marks in a sec.....


I just got my second 1G Kingston HX, so I had a chance to do some benchmarks with dual channel config at 1156Mhz on memory and 2.95GHz on CPU respectively. Both tests were done on Vista 32 and 64. Amazingly the 64 bit version did not perform much better, in certain cases worse than the 32 bit. PC Mark score 7185. General score received this time, previously not on Vista. Maybe the 8600 supports features in video decoding that the onboard graphics did not.

What I could hardly believe is that on 64 bit platform 3DMark06 performs a lot worse than the 32. 5671 scores received with the 32 bit version and 4703 with the 64 bit. Same settings (1280x1024 no AA/AF etc) and same drivers and clocks...why???

Here are the results.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> New power supply scored 10101, all stock settings


One of the guys here benchmarked 14996 with 8800GTX >> http://phtoplista.interact.hu/listak/PH_8800.htm (OCd Q6600)

While ATI`s HD 2900 XT with 1G GDDR4 only 12818. This sucks I thought it was going to be better. >>
http://phtoplista.interact.hu/listak_ati/PH_ATI_2006.htm

I read so bad reviews about the whole ATI range... they fail in all segments against NVIDIA both in terms of speed and power usage with their direct x 10 cards. I used to be an ATI fan, but I will totally lose confidence unless they come out with a 65nm high end card which is OK.

George, other than that the latest OCing tool for ATI cards (ATITool 0.27b) supports NVIDIA cards as well. With this one you can find the mem max / GPU max easily. Clicking on the find max core / find max mem button, it will start to increase clock automatically, performing stability tests by stopping after a certain increase was successful. Worked fine with my 8600 going a bit higher to 727 / 1640 than Gainward`s Expert Tool allowed.

With ATI cards there is a sound alert when the peak is reached then gradually clocks are reduced a bit to a safe level. This feature does not seem to be supported with NVIDIA. When I saw the first discoloured pixels on the rotating furry cube (show 3D view), aborted OCing immediately then downgraded the clock setting a bit manually. So the cube must be monitored carefully for any problems. It is still safer for OCing than just pulling a slider blind without seeing how a 3D application performs during increasing clocks. 

Definitely the 8800GTX does not really need OCing now, but maybe with Crysis every quality setting pushed up or future games yes.

Searching for some water cooling I spotted a very good waterblock for the 8800GTX from Zalman not only cooling the GPU/Stream proc/Memory but also some additional FETs >> http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=272&code=021. This makes me thinking about getting 8800...


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

Wanted to say thanks again for all the info and to bring this to the front again because of all the valuable overclocking info within.ray:


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

George Safford said:


> Wanted to say thanks again for all the info and to bring this to the front again because of all the valuable overclocking info within.ray:


Your welcome. Just a final benchmark as I ripped out the Asus P5B-V of my machine and got an Asus Blitz Formula SE two days ago. After two days overclocking 3800 MHz reached with water cooling...

Do not be mislead by the temp shown. Max was 75 C in Everest Mandel. Anyway without watercooling there is no chance to reach this speed. Where the Silent Square or any similar heatpipe cooler can make 57C watercooling makes it 47C. Check out the mb on the Asus website there are some very special features! 

Do not be shocked at the voltages - this baby can take it...


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## George Safford (Sep 1, 2003)

7162 Jumped a little.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

PC mark score 7346 with [email protected] mem @1058MHz it seems that PCmark is not a graphics sensitive application.


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## zalaszen (Dec 28, 2006)

zalaszen said:


> PC mark score 7346 with [email protected] mem @1058MHz it seems that PCmark is not a graphics sensitive application.


Quite long time ago I wrote about that I was waiting for ATI`s first 65nm GPU well it turned out to be 55 nm and I got the HD3870 as soon as it was available. 

Only 7866 PC mark scores received with max overclock [email protected] / [email protected], the VGA [email protected], mem @2774MHz, the increase is about 10% compared to the 8600GT so PC mark is really no graphics sensitive...

3DMark06 score 12260 with the above settings, and the hardware was still suffering under [email protected] at High setting. This game is as badly optimized as possible, and I saw not really the VGA as the bottleneck. Reducing resolution to 1280x1024 did not provide much performance increase, only when I pulled the CPU from 2.4G to 3.8G...


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