# [SOLVED] Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI



## Solidify

Concerning my previous outdoor receptacle topic, I decided to either a) wait to exchange my broken GFCI plug in tester for one that I can use on the outlets or b) just call an electrician to have a look at those outdoor outlets. Regardless, I won't need anymore help on it for now. 

As suggested, I'm starting a new thread to tackle another electrical project.

My home was built in 1972 so all 3 of my washrooms have those obsolete 110V transformers. Luckily for me, the first of them that I dissembled to have a look inside has a ground. :thumb: I will be using this guide to make the upgrade but I would surely love if it you guys can survey my work along the way.

One minor detail I'd like to ask before I begin this project is if the receptacles that the store rep gave me are safe to use/compatible with my situation. The receptacle says both 15A and 20A on the other side (you can see that in the photos) and the circuit that the bathroom outlet is running on is a 15A single-pole circuit breaker. For what it's work, when I tested the old razor only outlet for voltage using my Klein tester, the red light only went on when the bathroom lights were on; if the lights were off, there was no current going into the razor only outlet. Does this pose a problem for my installation?


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Also, in the GFCI receptacle's included manual, there is a diagram showing that the ground wire coming from the LINE cable needs to be wire connected together with a copper wire being grounded to the box and also one that goes to the receptacle's green ground screw. Why is this? Why do you have you ground it to the junction box if the LINE has a ground wire? Isn't this overkill? Can't I simply remove the ground wire from the junction box (the one that is entering from the LINE cable) and directly screw it to the new GFCI receptacle?


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## SABL

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

The diagram is the correct way and the ground has to be connected to the device *and* the box *if the box is metalic*. There's nothing redundant about keeping the entire circuit grounded.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Hm, I find that a bit overkill. I don't mind doing it, that's not a problem, it's just I don't have spare copper wire to do so. And besides, I read further and what puzzles me is that the manufacturer says it's OK to do what I initially thought if there's no grounding screw in the box. I'm wondering how much more unsafe it would be the do it without grounding it to the junction box?


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Also, in the second photo, you can see some of the sleeving on the hot wire is stripped, exposing the bare wire. Would it be smart to wrap some black electrical tape over this exposed portion when the circuit is off to prevent any future injuries or problems?

Edit: Nevermind, that exposed portion is part of the old receptacle that will be disposed.


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## Wrench97

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

That is to insure the box is grounded as well as the circuit.

Although you can tie the 3 wires together using a wire nut, there is a part called a Greenie Grounding Connector that allows one wire to pass through the top and twist the rest to it.









What are the transformers in the bathrooms for?


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## SABL

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Generally, a box without a grounding screw will be a fiber or plastic box......a metal box needs to be grounded. If no screw is present you'll have to use a grounding clip. Next time you're at the hardware store pick up some bare copper ground wire.....not that expensive.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

So to encapsulate, if I get the geenie nut, I don't need the extra 6-inch peice of copper wire? But if I use a normal grommet, I do need that extra piece of copper to run to the junction box?

If so, is one method code or safer?

i'm not sure what I have to work with in the 2 remaining razor only outlets so I'd like to plan ahead of going to buy what I need (i.e.: 18 inches of copper wire vs. 3 geenie grommets)


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Nevermind, just realized that I'll still need the extra length of copper if I use the greenie nut. If I don't use the greenie nut, I'll need two pieces of extra copper wire. Right?


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## Wrench97

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Right the greenies are faster but only if you are running new wire and can control the length of the bare ground in the new cable.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Ok well in that case i wont use the greenie since im using existing wiring. Ill just get another 2 lengths of bare copper wiring and tight them all together with a grommet


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## SABL

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

I'd just splice another piece of bare copper to the existing ground.......~8". Loop through (place the ground under the box screw) and connect the end to the device. Make sure the box and device are grounded. 

When you buy the wire make sure you get enough.......I'd buy extra. Nothing worse than spending time and gas to get 1' of wire to complete a project.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

So u mean instead of having the line ground, box ground and gfci ground all screwed together using a grommet, i should just screw the ground that comes from the panel and the ground strip that comes from the receptacles one on top of the other to the box screw? Basically like two loops on top
OF EAchother screwed down very tight


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## SABL

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Just add a piece of ground to the existing. You should be able to attach the original loop in the same area of the wire that it was first attached......connect the new wire to the device. 

OK...I just looked at the pic again. Wire-nut a new piece of ground to the original.....right after the wire-nut, loop the new conductor around the box screw and secure it. Attach the end of the new wire to the device......should be good to go. Might take 10" of new wire to do that.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Do u mind illustratingg it or using a video im
Confused


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Like this?

How To Install a GFCI Receptacle - YouTube


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Hmm ok i understand what you explained now SABL. Its a shame the existing ground isnt long enough to do that without a new wire


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## SABL

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Great!! I see you got it......:thumb:

Pretty simple process.....you just need a little more wire. Notice the 'shoulders' around the 2 ground screws in the back of the box.......those are to keep the wire from 'squirting out' from under the screw. If you're carefull you shouldn't have any problem. 

There are many ways to ground a circuit.......the most expensive IMO is to buy pre-made grounds that have a screw attached. The cheapest, fastest, easiest is to add a new length of bare wire and loop it under the ground screw in the back of the box.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Canadian Tire near my house was out of ground wire so I bout 30 inches of romex and I'll just open it for the ground. Im working on it now. Feel free to post anythiing last minute as I'll be checking the topic periodically. Thanks again SABL.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure this is 14/2 wire but the rep said that it doesn't matter if the ground wire gauage is too bit, as long as it's not too small.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Alright, an hour later and all is well. Tested the GFCI outlet and it works as it should. The only issue I had is that the old metallic 2-gang junction box in my washroom was bigger than the conversion kit's faceplate so I had a hard time retrofitting it on. It looks a bit silly because the tilesman didn't do a straight job too. But it works! 

Onto the next 2!


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

So I installed the second GFCI outlet and it works as well but I wasn't so lucky this time while trying to retrofit the conversion plate to those larger obsolete 2-gang junction boxes I have in my walls. I left it as is for the sake of being able to close up the wall and have everything atleast functional to restore power (since the breaker that controlled this 2nd washroom also controlled the final bathroom and my room's power). 

I went to Canadian Tire since it's across the street and I'm not well to drive yet and the rep in the electrical department said they don't have the sized plates I'm looking for and to try elsewhere (he also added that it may be hard to find them since those 2-gang boxes are obsolete and I'd just be better off replacing the junction boxes to comply with the new size standard for 2-gang junction boxes), but that's just way too much work, especially considering I haven't even looked around yet.

All in all, this project is going smoothly with the exception of this minor hiccup. I'll resume working on it tomorrow or Sunday. 

Thanks again to everyone that has contributed to this thread. This work is surprisingly very rewarding; I can get used to this DIY stuff, enjoying the fruits of my labour.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

So I just got back from several home improvement centers and none had a faceplate that could fit my old-style box; everyone just kept telling me to replace the box. But all 3 boxes are behind tile and I'm really not down for that.

Anyone know of specialty e-stores that I can have a last look?


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

The old one was square, what did you do on the new one? Something is wrong.

Hope you did not throw the old one away.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Didnt throw anything out. The old ones had been chimied with.. Theyre the same size as these new faceplates.. Ill just keep trying i guess


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## Vegassparky

For the receptacle that you successfully changed out, how is the receptacle attached to the junction box now? Can you measure, and post the dimensions of one of those junction boxes in the wall? They look like 4 11/16"(height and width)to accommodate the transformer. The correct mounting rings are available. Those boxes are not obsolete.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

No the box is biggwr than the transformer. The transformer and the new gfci receptacle were both installed the same way. There a square conversion plate that has a screw hole in each corner to be mounted to the junction box. And then theres a hole in the middle of that plate to push the receptacle into. Then you put the final faceplate. The problem is that the conversion plates 4 screw holes dont match the 4 mounting locations on the Box. I can àttach two screw on one side but then the conversion plate comes up like an inch short of the screw holes on the other side.


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## SABL

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

What Sparky said.......measure the box and get a single gang plaster ring. They do come in different sizes (depths) to accomodate various wall coatings (thickness of drywall or plaster).

Pic #3 post 21........you missed the shoulder. You made a complete loop around the grounding screw........not sure that's accepted practice. Max contact will be a simple 'U' with the wire inside the shoulders that are stamped in the box (the 2 raised areas on each side of the screw head). A complete wrap around gives minimum contact where the screw only contacts the section of wire that is over the top of itself.

DIY can save lots of $$$ if done correctly. I spent 25yrs as a commercial carpenter working around all the different trades........direct access to professionals when I had questions.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Ok i will get you the box dimensions and fix the ground wire


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*



> For the receptacle that you successfully changed out, how is the receptacle attached to the junction box now?


I chimied it. I put the screw from the left side on an angle to reach further to the side. It's not solid.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

The old ones weren't installed well. I'm surprised they hadnt fell out. The old plates have the holes at the same place as the new conversion plates.


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## SABL

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

This is a 4" box and matching single gang plaster ring for 5/8" drywall. Note the clamps inside the box.......they are for armored cable and not NM (Romex).


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Thank you SABL. I installed the final GFCI outlet in the last washroom and this one went smoothly because this washroom did not have a razor only outlet, it simply had a normal 15A outlet that wasn't grounded. And because of this, there was already a backplate made for the shape of the outlet (unlike the 2 other washroom which had a backplate for the bulky transformer). Here are some photos of the install. You can see me holding the new conversion plates I bought up against the one that was already inside this junction box. You will note that the screw holes on the new ones don't like up with the one that was already on the wall. That's why I'm having such a hard time with the other two washrooms. The screw holes on the old backplate that I found in this final washroom are identical to the ones in your plaster ring photo. In the end, I didn't use the 3rd conversion kit I had bought since all the necessary hardware was already in this washroom. I measured the box and it's 4 1/4" by 4 1/4", just as one of you suspected. Now I'll just take these pictures and go down to the store and see if I can find two more backplates like this one with the screw holes on a beveled angle.


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Picture 3 is different from #4&5. 4&5 look likes the outlet is mounted from the back. Also looks like they are riveted in.

Now use your plug in tester to check.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Bg can you re explain your post? Pic 4 and 5 are meant to be different im holding the new plate


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## SABL

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

I can see it.....Solidify's holding one of the plates over an installed one. Looks like it will work......:thumb:

Everything test out??


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

I thought it was the same one.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

lol sorry BG i wasn't clear enough. the plate im holding up are the new ones that have holes that dont line up correctly with the boxes. the one behind it (also the one you see installed in the 3rd photo is the plate that was already there). if i can find 2 more plates like that im set.


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## oscer1

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Well if all else fails you could drill new holes in new plates.


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

yeah oscer good idea, my dad suggested that too but ill have a final look-see before doing that.


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## SABL

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*

Sorry I'm late......had too much to do yesterday and wore myself out. 

Flip the plate over and see if the holes line up......just looking at the plate seems that will work. Can only try.....


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## Solidify

*Re: Razor Only Receptacles to GFCI*



SABL said:


> Flip the plate over and see if the holes line up


Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Can't believe I didn't think of that earlier. :facepalm: Here's what it gave. I still used some washers to be safe the screws wouldn't slide through but your suggestion worked.

Now, rinse and repeat for the other outlet. Thank you SABL! :flowers:

P.S.: It's still abit crooked but that's only because my eyesight is a bit bad lol I'll fix that


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## Solidify

One last problem I have after fixing the last one is that I can't get a widder faceplate to cover the hole on the right because then it won't fit on the wall because the left side of the cutout is already too close to the wall.


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## oscer1

Well you could fill gap with silicone.


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## Solidify

Yeah that was my last resort if no one has anything else to suggest (e.g. buying wider faceplate and cutting the left side shorter with a tablesaw) Thanks oscer.


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## oscer1

Well if you have spare tile could replace tile.


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## Solidify

Actually I do have spare tile but I'd much rather put silicone than replace the tile lol that's a pain in the *** and if I'd be removing the tile I'd probably just change the 2-gang box to a single-gang box and end my troubles there.


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