# amplifier's protect mode



## shesmackshard

alright so ill keep it simple, heres my issue. but firstly, my gear:

2 Directed Electronics 23124. 12" subs 750 watts peak each
Crunch BLX1000d amp
8 ga amp kit
Sony CDX M620 headunit

Ive had my subs/amp for about 3 weeks, and they were working fine, damn they pump hard. But now, just today, the amp went into protect mode, and continues to do so. trends:

-my car is not hot, neither is my amp, nor subs. so no overheating, im assuming
-my amp is screwed onto the back of my sub box with my backseat dropped. so, in other words, good venting.
-the music isnt that loud, especially compared to past playing before the problem came up.
-it has happened at low volumes
-the very last occasion that the amp cut, protect mode DID NOT come on. the bass just stopped for a few seconds, i lowered my headunit volume, and the bass popped back on. repeat, did not go into protect mode because light was still green.

sorry for the big wall of text, just really hoping its something simple like grounding, and not my amp itself.

as far as grounding, the ground wire is attached to a bolt underneath my rear speaker deck. I did not install the amp myself so i dont know if they sanded the surface but the grounding looks alright to *me*.

haaaalp


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## shesmackshard

also, my gain is at 75%. seems worth mentioning.


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## carsey

Try turning the gain down a bit. 75% sounds very high.

Sometimes deep bass can trigger amp protect mode. Happens on my amp a LOT. I think its my setup, as can listen to say pendulum for about 5minutes, loud as I can go, without distortion and the amp does turn off.


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## shesmackshard

Im gonna be honest, I had it even higher than 75% before this happened, and the bass was REALLY knockin, and it never turned off. Like I said, this just happened, and it has happened at low volumes.


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## PerfaLock

maybe your amp can't handle the load? this happens to me too because mine is a 2 ohm load and my amp is stable to 4 ohm, so when it get's too loud the amp shuts off until you reset the deck or restart the car.


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## shesmackshard

would the ohm problem start immediately? Ive had the subs for 3 weeks, and they've kicked major ***. they are awesome, seriously. the amp is crazy powerful, but then this happened.i figured that if it was an ohm problem then they wouldnt have worked to begin with.

i took it to a local customs shop (where it was "professionally installed") and they said theres little chance its the grounding because he made sure it was great. but we'll see this upcoming TUESDAY (which is ********). I told them ill keep them updated on the situation. My only guess was grounding, and they shot it down. And the ohm problem doesnt make sense to me, because Im not familiar with car audio all that much.

it still turns off after about 15 minutes of playing at a low-decent volume.


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## carsey

Can you tell us where its grounded and the condition of the ground? Is it bare metal and not covered with paint? 
Can you get us a picture?

Have you set you amp up correctly for the sub?

This is done by:
Turning volume on headunit up to 3/4.
Then adjusting the levels on the amp until the sub just starts to distort. (you can usually tell). Once its started to distort, turn it back 1/8-1/4 turn for the optimum sound.

If its turning off after 15minutes, then my guess is overheating. This is caused by the gain (bass boost or whatever you want to call it) is set too high.


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## shesmackshard

Yeah its tuned for the subs correctly (well I assume. they installed it and said I was "good to go". ill know on tuesday when I have to go back...). and Ive felt the amp when it shuts off, its not hot to the touch. Its either warm or even a bit cool.

I can get a better picture of grounding, but heres a quick one. this is underneath my rear deck (i had to lift up the carpet with one hand, and take the pic with the other). Sorry a little blurry

https://www.virginmobileusa.com/media/pic0520092jpg-13.jpg


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## shesmackshard

sorry didnt see the link was broke

here:
http://phaeton.indreams-studios.com/temp/pic0520092jpg-13.jpg

my car is silver by the way, so the blackish metal im guessing is paint-free. pretty sure it is. shrugs


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## shesmackshard

my friend thinks its because of the ohm load from the subs to the amp not matching, but ill let them (installers) decide. but that still seems like a problem that would have come up sooner. im still hanging onto the grounding.


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## carsey

Hmm, how are the subs wired up? Are they bridged?

Just had a look at spec of amp and i understand this in a monoblock amp?


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## carsey

Hmm, how are the subs wired up? Are they bridged?

Just had a look at spec of amp and i understand this in a monoblock amp?


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## shesmackshard

I dont know how to name it, but the subs wiring go into 2 positive terminals on the amp, no negative terminals. i found that odd.

from the amp its wired directly to the box terminals.

forgive my ignorance, im familiar with home theatre quite well, but new to car audio. I have a few pics if it helps. just let me know and ill upload em.

no clue about the monoblock thing... sorry 

edit: the specs just to clarify, and confirm for yourself...hope this helps

# 750 Watts
# BlackMaxx Flo-Thru Heat Sink Design
# PWM Mosfet Power Supply
# Fully Bridgeable Design
# Black High Quality PCB Design
# High Speed Mosfet Output Devices
# Class AB Operation
# Separate Bass and Treble Controls with Switch
# HP (High Pass) from 60 Hz to 1.2 kHz Adjustable Crossover Network
# LP (Low Pass) from 40 Hz to 150 Hz Adjustable Crossover Network
# HP/LP/Flat Select Switch
# Silver RCA Line Input , High Level Inputs
# Silver RCA Line Output for Amplifier Daisy Chaining
# Internal Protection Circuitry
# Green "On"LED, Red "Protect"LED
# Mono Channel

SPECIFICATIONS:

# 1 x 350 Watts @ 4 Ohms
# 1 x 750 Watts @ 2 Ohms
# 1 x 1000 Watts @ 1 Ohm
# Size (WxHxL): 10.1" x 1.85" x 12.79"


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## PerfaLock

it shoudnt be grounding..that doesnt rly make sense if its grounded in a good spot that works...i had a grounding problem before and the subs didnt work at all cuz it wasnt touching the metal...and are your subs DVC or SVC? and how much ohms are they? and how much ohms is your amp stable to? if its 4 ohm DVC you can wire it in paralell. positive terminal and negative terminal from both subs to the same positive and negative on the amp. so it will be like both positives in same terminal on amp and both negatives on same terminal on amp. thats a 2 ohm load. if your amp is stable to something higher than that,,, it WILL trip out cuz it cant handle it, if its stable to 2 ohm, you'll get full power , if its stable to a lower ohm, then it wont trip out but you wont get full power,, which isnt a problem unless you want more power.


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## shesmackshard

thanks for the replies guys, this troubleshooting is quite helpful for me. really.

alright so, ill throw grounding out for now, and assume its an ohm load problem. firstly, is it unsafe to play music (not too loud) in the mean time before it gets fixed by the installer? I dont want to blow anything.

secondly, i already asked but i didnt see an answer i dont think. if it was an ohm load problem, would it not strike a problem earlier than 3 weeks or so? Like i said this is the first few days Ive had the problem. the previous weeks were flawless.


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## PerfaLock

first time i wired mine to 2 ohm load it was fine for a while then started tripping out,, maybe its not an ohm problem tho? but maybe it is, who knows, im just assuming... and no nothing should get damaged while playing your music loud if its the ohm load...the amp cuts of to protect itself, thats all,,, just restart your deck and it shud be back on,, thats what im doing until i get a new amp.


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## carsey

Can you get a pic of the wiring?

I dont thinl 2 subs would run effectively off 1 channel.


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## PerfaLock

in my opinon , two subs sound like **** if they're on there own channels(ex. two channel amp) if the amps bridgeable or sumthing you shud wire both subs to the same terminals to bridge the amp...more power and sounds better, only problem is if your amp isnt stable to it like mine 
His amp is mono,, so there shud only be two terminals, 1 pos. and 1 neg. and both neg. wires shud go to the neg. on amp and both pos. wires shud go to pos. terminal on amp, some mono amps have two neg. beside eachother and two pos. beside eachother,, but you wire it the same i guess,, neg. to neg. and pos. to pos. 

EDIT: how come you wrote 750 watts for the amp,, but at the bottom in the specifications, it says if the amplifier sees a 1 ohm load, its 1000 watts? or is 750 watts per sub? i need an amp liek yours 1000watts rms at 1ohm load.


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## shesmackshard

I can get pics but my phone isnt very good in dark areas (tinted windows and horrible whether)

heres a closeup of my amp terminals. my wires coming from one of my subs goes into a positive terminal on the top, and the other sub's wires connect to a negative terminal way on the bottom. seen here (pixelated badly)
http://phaeton.indreams-studios.com/temp/pic0520093jpg-14.jpg

like this:
+ wiring to sub1
- no wires
+ no wires
- wiring to sub2

and heres a bit of a zoomed back pic, hopefully you can pic out a few things.
a bit messy at the moment haha.
http://phaeton.indreams-studios.com/temp/pic0520094jpg-15.jpg

the wire that goes up under my deck's carpeting is the grounding, which connects to that bolt in the previous picture.

god, horrid quality for sure, but i try. hopefully you can make some stuff out.


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## PerfaLock

lol the wiring looks exactly like my amps and subs except my amp is 2 channel and it looks exactly like that wen its bridged

Find out what your subs are ,, like the ohm and voice coil of them, then find out how much ohm your amp is stable to, then you can re-wire your system if YOU want to.


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## carsey

If the subs are 750WRMS each and the ampo can only give a maximum of 1000WRMS at 1 ohm, then that is no where near powerful enough. 

Running it at almost max gain, 75%+ would definately be causing it problems.

Im taking this is your sub spec sheet:

http://www.directed.com/guides/manuals/ig/directed_audio/2002Studio_Speaker.pdf

So, if that is, you sub is only giving 400WRMS which would appear to be at 4 ohms?

I never really understood ohms, so could someone please clarify.

So im guessing you will need to wire your amp so it 'sees' a 2 ohm load and can give 750WRMS power to the subs.


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## jaggerwild

Yeah he's running the AMP @one OHM what the speakers are, is the next question(DVC/SVC). But the correct way is using one positive terminal and the other negative terminal.
Try running one woofer(hooked the same way it is) see if this works OK with no troubles, if so then you have yer answer(OHMS problem) if it continues then it is something else. I'd also suggest soldering the terminal connections(on the speakers) eliminate that as a problem as well.


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## lcurle

dude your running 8 gauge.......that needs to be upgraded, to at least 4.


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## jaggerwild

lcurle said:


> dude your running 8 gauge.......that needs to be upgraded, to at least 4.


WOW can you tell it has been a while for me installing? Also my old boss would just give me the stuff and say make it work.........:upset:


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## shesmackshard

would the gauge wiring really cause a problem like this? i find it sketchy that no one else picked up on a gauge problem so.

Alright, I hope you guys were smarter than me when looking at that picture of the wiring. Im a friggin retard when i described it.

Basically the + from each sub is going to a positive amp terminal, and the same for the negative. would it be a problem at all that the positive from each sub go into the same pos terminal rather than seperate? (same for neg)

yeah thats my subs specs. the 23124 model, so does this officially mean that its likely that the installers were retards when wiring (they had the specs for the amp and subs available in the boxes they came in).


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## shesmackshard

my subs are SVC

so:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/ca/learningcenter/car/subwoofer_wiring/2SVC_2-ohm_mono.jpg

this? this is most definitely how they dont have them wired. just looking at all the diagrams for wiring on crutchfield convinces me that the pproblem is more than likely ohm load.


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## lcurle

Bridged Wiring








Parallel Wiring








Series Wiring


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## shesmackshard

okay, then mines at the second lone. Parallel wiring. So if I understand that right, this might shoot down the ohm theory?

This sucks. i hate problems


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## shesmackshard

What. The. Hell!??

heres the deal. On the box my subs came in, it says 750 peak watts, 500 rms. Model number (this is key) 3124.

On the paper that was inside both boxes, it says 600 peak watts, and 450 rms. model number 23124.

Model numbers dont match, and watts dont match. I dont known what the balls I have!!1 if I have 600 peak watts 450rms, with it wired parallel, is that the problem???


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## lcurle

are they dual voice coil? Are they wired up dual voice coil? If they are wired wrong you can get down to 1 ohm on the amp wich would send it into protect mode instantly.


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## shesmackshard

Please guys i dont have a lot of time before my appointment at the shop. I really do appreciate the help, but please read my posts.

I said my subs are SVC. And its not going into protection mode instantly. only after about 10 minutes. Etc.


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## lcurle

turn your gain down to about 25% and zero out the bass or subwoofer level on your head unit and see if it cuts out. If you are trying to push too much the amp will over work itself. Over time it will start to burn up


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## shesmackshard

i'll try it just to attempt to isolate the problem, but i repeat _Again_ its not hot to the touch. At all. So I seriously refuse to think its overheating, if it is, then this amp is seriously a big wimp. Its barely warm.

also, i asked if the overpowering of the subs was an issue, is it?

thanks


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## lcurle

I can tell you the amp is a big pile of rhino pee, but that is just my opinion. Is it CEA certified? If not, then they can say it is 1000000000000000 watts when in reality it is only 5.


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## carsey

you could have a 10,000Watt amp and it only be pumping out 250WRMS.

RMS is the value you need to look for as all manufacturers have to state this. They can give it any amount of watts they want.


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## shesmackshard

Okay thank you a lot for clarifying Carsey.

So, I guess my only hope is a full inspection by the installer, because all my troubleshooting with the amp and some wiring isnt working. so, keeping my hopes up. please continue any other theories/troubleshooting if you have any.

thanks for all the help thus far, once again.


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## shesmackshard

could the gauge wiring lead to this problem? again, im runnging 8 gauge, which my amp's installation guide says would work (minimum of 8 gauge).

Also, Ive noticed that duration is not the key. its definitely volume... it will cut out a point no where near where I typically played it. I had it at least half way, it will cut before that (in between 25% and 50% volume, depending on the song's bass).

ideas? gain is at 75% with subwoofer volume on the HU about 75%... which is no where near as loud as the way it was before the problem (100% gain with headunit at minimum 75% subwoofer volume, depending on song).

figured i should repeat, its not hot to the touch at all.


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## carsey

Gain is definately the problem.

As suggested, turn it back to a LOW setting and work from there. I really cant imagine what that much gain is going to sound like. From my experience, too much can sound ALOT worse than the right amount.


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## jaggerwild

shesmackshard said:


> could the gauge wiring lead to this problem? again, im runnging 8 gauge, which my amp's installation guide says would work (minimum of 8 gauge).
> 
> Also, Ive noticed that duration is not the key. its definitely volume... it will cut out a point no where near where I typically played it. I had it at least half way, it will cut before that (in between 25% and 50% volume, depending on the song's bass).
> 
> ideas? gain is at 75% with subwoofer volume on the HU about 75%... which is no where near as loud as the way it was before the problem (100% gain with headunit at minimum 75% subwoofer volume, depending on song).
> 
> figured i should repeat, its not hot to the touch at all.


 Minimum means "at the very least 8 Guage", but should be bigger(in my car it would/customers no). A lot gets lost in translation, there is also a lot that is assumed. Were trying to help........

If the amp is under powered and then you cranked it up, this WOULD NOT CAUSE A HEAT problem before the amp would show signs of a problem. Under powering(or starving) also causes permanent damage to electronics where heat takes longer usually to do damage. Same law holds true for computers, "the power supply is the Heart of a build" (so don't use cheap pace makers :4-thatsba )

As for the gains, a good quality head unit will push distortion out @ or before 75% volume, add the gains turned up distortion to this equation. 
SO even if the AMP gets replaced (and I hope it does) if the guage of wire feeding power to the amp is not made bigger then the same thing will happen over and over again.


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## lcurle

Riddle me this, do your headlights dim when your stereo is cranked up for the few short seconds before it cuts out? If you have a remote for your cd player lets try something. Put a volt meter on your battery and kind of face it towards you so you can still use the remote with the head unit. Start to turn the head unit's volume up and watch the battery voltage drop, once it hits a certain level (10 volts) it starts to shut down.

Now lets test your alternater, while the vehicle is running, disconnect the negative battery terminal, if the car dies the alternator is crapping out. Do you have a capacitor inline with your stereo?


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## shesmackshard

I dont have a volt meter but my lights do not dim. And Im not replacing the amp, because theres nothing wrong with it. its a matter of troubleshooting the settings, and wiring. Ive disconnected all wiring except ground and power and protect mode did not come on. its not the amp. and considering its absolutely powerful when working, i have no reason to.

ill lower the gain down some more? Im getting the feeling its the gauge wiring.


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## shesmackshard

carsey said:


> Gain is definately the problem.
> 
> As suggested, turn it back to a LOW setting and work from there. I really cant imagine what that much gain is going to sound like. From my experience, too much can sound ALOT worse than the right amount.


I love you. And whoever else suggested this. It was gain. it works now 

I turned down the gain but turned up the subwoofer levels on my HU and it works.

The bass is a liittttlle bit lower than before but its good to go, but will bigger gauge wire for the Power and Ground upgrade any bass levels? i thought I saw someone mention that and I was just curious because i never would have guess that.


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## PerfaLock

i heard that every wire makes a difference, the power, ground, speaker wire, RCA's etc. they all make a difference. in a good way


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## carsey

http://bcae1.com/wire.htm


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## jaggerwild

PerfaLock said:


> i heard that every wire makes a difference, the power, ground, speaker wire, RCA's etc. they all make a difference. in a good way



GLade its fixed!!!
And yeah if the RCA'S are running on the same side of the auto as the power and turn on leads you will have cross talk also..........

Keep us informed! :wave:


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## shesmackshard

my rca's and power run the same side, and I dont hear anything...what should I be listening for? I'll invest in some buigger gauge wiring for the near future, and hopefully ill get even more out of the subs/amp.

Im gonna mess with the gain some more to see if i can find the loudest level its stable at with decent volume. Tomorrows my appointment with the shop, so ill see what they say


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## jaggerwild

Move the RCA'S to the other side of the car's door sill plates, you do want help right?


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## lcurle

you will hear engine noise if they are running down the same side, and your welcome


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## shesmackshard

I dont hear anything haha, maybe the installer did some neat trick or something.

Well seems all good now, it definitely hasnt turned off at high volume so, it was a gain issue. **** summer heat 

Thanks


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## shesmackshard

Bad news guys. Happened again, except now, it goes right into protect when I start the car. Ive disconnected all wires except power and ground, and it still does it. So its gotta be a faulty amp, no? I just emailed the owner of the place i bought it from, and hopefully ill get a replacement amp. What you guys think as far as troubleshooting this further? Im so sad right now


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## shesmackshard

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_020DPX1155/Clarion-DPX11551.html?o=s&showAll=N&tp=115

do you think this is a good amp for my subs?? sorry for my ignorance, again. my subs specs are on a previous page in this topic.


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## carsey

Probably almost certainly you killed the amp. happened to me twice because I overpowered them.


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## shesmackshard

how can you overpower an amp? playing too loud (wasnt too loud when it went into protect for the official last time). my gauge wiring isnt very big (8 gauge).

Crunch sucks so bad. Dont ever buy crunch.


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## carsey

You dont technically 'overpower' a amp its more like stressing the internal components by using too high gains/frequencies. Over time the components will become worn and eventually break.

So, can we clarify. You have 2 subs running at 500WRMS each? Correct?

Its wired up using figure 2 of this diagram:








Which is parallel wiring?

Do you know what ohms the subs are? My guess is they will be a 4ohm sub, but dont quote me on this....this figure is VITAL if running more than 1 sub.


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## shesmackshard

Im wired parallel yes, my subs are 4 ohms, SVC 500 rms 750 peak (read from box).

I had the amp 3 weeks.


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## shesmackshard

hmmmm I had a blown fuse on my power wire under the hood. Im gonna replace it and see what happens. If it works, what causes this and how can I make sure it doesnt again?


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## carsey

SPECIFICATIONS:

# 1 x 350 Watts @ 4 Ohms
*# 1 x 750 Watts @ 2 Ohms*
# 1 x 1000 Watts @ 1 Ohm

Looks like your amp is too small for the subs.

Id look for a amp with AT LEAST 1100WRMS @ 2Ohms.

Not sure why your fuse has popped under the bonnet, its usually because the cable for power has shorted out.


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## shesmackshard

how is that too small an amp? 

my subs are 500 rms dude. Im overpowering them is anything.

also, i replaced all the fuses, and it still goes in protect mode after i turn the car on for about 5 seconds. and considering that fuse blew in the first place, should I just get a new wiring kit?

I'd be cool to get an answer on that buyt I think Im buying this soon
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500MRP1000/Alpine-MRP-M1000.html?search=alpine+amp


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## shesmackshard

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500MRP1000/Alpine-MRP-M1000.html?tp=115

ordered this amp with new wiring...comments? I hope this all works out when i get it all pulled out and installed from scratch. and at least with crutchfield I'll have a warranty.


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## carsey

The amp you linked and gave specs before is too small as you have 1000WRMS from your subs wired as 2 ohms. The amp can only give 750WRMS at 2 ohms....250WRMS short.

The amp you ordered is 1000WRMS at 2 ohms. Which will do the job you want if you wire it in parallel.

What wiring kit did you go for?


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## shesmackshard

Helpers at crutchfield told me to get 4 gauge and it'd be just dandy with it. I didnt get street wire, but I got 4 gauge EFX or something. I dont have the money for the street wire right now but I may upgrade later,

edit:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_142PA41/EFX-4-gauge-Amplifier-Wiring-Kit.html?search=4+gauge+kit

bought that one


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## carsey

4AWG should do the trick nicely.


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## shesmackshard

thanks for all your help guys. unfortunately it was the amp it seems, but now I'll have a better one! Im sure ill be back when the next disaster happens.


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## carsey

JUst dont turn your gain right the way up. 

Headunit at 3/4 volume, or until it reaches distortion, which ever comes first.

Then adjust your levels on the amp to match the sub.


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## shesmackshard

im not installing/tuning 

its getting installed at the same place, then ill tidy the wires up.


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## lcurle

if it is getting installed professionally, they should already have the wires cleaned up and hidden, I know I make my guys do it all the time so the owner/customer does not have to do it.


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