# Is Microsoft forcing Windows 10?



## usingpc (Aug 29, 2015)

I don't think I clicked any buttons but at some point a little earlier I noticed my laptop running 8.1 was working on updating to Windows 10, which I DON'T WANT!

1. Is Microsoft forcing it on our computers today?
2. How can I stop the download? I have a message telling me that once I restart my computer the download will begin!
3. If it goes to 10 will I be able to revert to 8.1?
4. What are your recommendations in general about the upgrade? I fear lots of bugs and problems. But I also don't want to count myself out of important compatability issues or lose the option for a free download of 10 in the future.
5. When the upgrade started I forced my computer off. Everything looks okay but did I do any damage?

HELP!


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## prodigal74 (Feb 23, 2016)

Hi,

The Windows 10 download is "forced" through Windows Update - unless you remove it from the update list.

You can always choose not to install Windows 10 - just stop the installation before it goes too far.

If you choose to install Windows 10, you have 1 month to revert back to your old installation. It's easy to go back to earlier versions of Windows. Just remember to do it within 1 month - and do NOT delete the folder named *Windows.old*.


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## usingpc (Aug 29, 2015)

So even though I found a selection window that allowed me to choose not to download 10, the message I am getting upon sign in that I will get an update in 1 day indicates a forced 10 "upgrade"?


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## prodigal74 (Feb 23, 2016)

usingpc said:


> So even though I found a selection window that allowed me to choose not to download 10, the message I am getting upon sign in that I will get an update in 1 day indicates a forced 10 "upgrade"?


I've never seen that message... What is the exact wording?

Here is a good article about stopping the Windows 10 upgrade: How to stay on Windows 7 & 8 forever - How-To - PC Advisor

But, I think you should try Windows 10. It's actually quite good - and remember that you can always go back to your old installation within a month.

If you want Windows 10 to "feel like old Windows" you can install Classic Shell: Classic Shell - Start menu and other Windows enhancements


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Don't worry as you can roll it back within 30 days, if you find it does not suit you.
See here Going back to Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 - Windows Help -
Now I 'am not saying it is ideal but it should help to assure you it is not irreversible.


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## usingpc (Aug 29, 2015)

I also don't want it to update to 10 while I am in the middle of working. How do I find out when it plans to start?


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

See if this helps How to stay on Windows 7 & 8 forever - How-To - PC Advisor


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## usingpc (Aug 29, 2015)

How can I check when the update will kick in?


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Have you looked in your updates Quick way to find out installed updates on your Windows 8


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## prodigal74 (Feb 23, 2016)

You can schedule when to perform the update.
To do that you'll have to start the upgrade by clicking the Windows 10 icon in the lower right corner of the display.
Don't worry - you will be asked to "install now" or to schedule a time convenient to you. See image below.


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## usingpc (Aug 29, 2015)

So is the bottom line that I should let 10 be forced on and that it has no bugs and that if I don't let it on I will have compatibility issues in the future or have to pay for 10? Is the "free offer" for 10 to be taken seriously?


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## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

The offer is genuine, as to the rest that is down to how people perceive it, I feel it is being pushed to hard others may not.


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## usingpc (Aug 29, 2015)

I'm getting the message now that MS10 will only be free through the rest of this month. Is that true?


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

usingpc said:


> I'm getting the message now that MS10 will only be free through the rest of this month. Is that true?


The free upgrade offer is up until 29th July, 2016. You could always try it out and go back if it doesn't work out for you. If you decide to try it out, I recommend you first make a system backup of your current setup and keep the backup on a separate hard drive (recommended) or partition. It's a more reliable fail-safe than rolling back using the inbuilt feature in Windows 10 that's only available for a month after the upgrade, plus it (in-place upgrade) doesn't always go down neatly.

I just finished upgrading a client's brand new laptop yesterday (came with Windows 8.1) and I had to do a clean install after an in-place upgrade didn't work as well as expected. The in-place upgrade was on a factory-fresh installation of 8.1, less than an hour after unpacking the laptop and removing all the bloatware and/or trialware that came with it; it technically had nothing on it except Windows and drivers, yet had problems already. After the clean install, everything is running super smooth.

Your experience with the upgrade *may* not be the same as anyone else's, but that's not the point. The point is, the fact that you have doubts and the fact that things do not always go down as theorized, warrants the need to have a current backup before attempting the upgrade. That way you can always go back to your previous setup as if nothing ever changed. You can even have several backups, one of your current setup, one after the inplace upgrade and one after a clean install of Windows 10. What's important is that you acquire and retain your Windows 10 digital entitlement (license) before the upgrade offer period is over, otherwise you will have to pay for it if you decide to upgrade after that deadline.

Of course you could always stick to Windows 8.1, it's end of (extended) support is not anywhere near due (January 10, 2023). By that time you probably will have bought a new computer running the latest release of Windows (or something else).


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## usingpc (Aug 29, 2015)

So it is a legit thing, this end of the deal for a free version?
Have there been any bugs?
And by all your backing up references, are you just talking about putting everything on an external hard drive?


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

usingpc said:


> So it is a legit thing, this end of the deal for a free version?
> Have there been any bugs?


Yes, the offer is legit and the deadline is very real. Bugs are inevitable in software, but Windows 10 is mostly stable.


> And by all your backing up references, are you just talking about putting everything on an external hard drive?


Yes, although a separate internal hard drive or partition on the same drive (not recommended) can also be used as locations for the backup(s).


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## DarwinJones (Jun 6, 2016)

I remember when I'm still using windows 8, the message keep appearing I tried to download it but didn't install.

It answer you 2nd question:

2. How can I stop the download? I have a message telling me that once I restart my computer the download will begin!

No, it's not forcing you to download you always have the option to do so. 

One time I decided to install it and regret to do so haha... but I'm getting the hang of it now.


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

prodigal74 said:


> The Windows 10 download is "forced" through Windows Update - unless you remove it from the update list.
> 
> You can always choose not to install Windows 10 - just stop the installation before it goes too far.


https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

I don't know how substantive the conversations get on what Win10 does and does not do, with regard to data privacy, etc... I visit a particular forum where they deconstruct Win10 to the extreme, for the purposes of subverting it and/or preventing it's adoption by non-sheep.

Most people don't know or care, and many of the facts are in dispute, due in part to many forums suppressing any kind of "what's inside Windows and how to stop it from doing things" as being talk about "hacking". So in some respects the white hats create their own "enemies" by taking people that just want to the straight truth about the Operating System that runs their machines and manages their data into joining "black hat", "hacking" forums, since substantive conversations are prohibited anywhere else.

And, truth be told, most white hats don't know, or want to know, what's really going on. They see things in terms of legal liability first and foremost. Which is okay for an individual person, but applying this policy to everyone else creates unintended consequences, such as average people developing an affinity for and tolerance of black hat methods due to the coercive and yet simultaneously ignorant pressures they feel in the white hat realm.

And black hats have cookies, too. Soft, cake like cookies with creamy strawberry filling. They are DELICIOUS.

Anyways, I'll tell you my "worst horror story ever" about Win10, so you can establish for yourself how bad either is, or can become.

The idea is that once you "sign" the ToS of Win10, you agree to allow your computer to become a dumb terminal for Microsoft's unlimited use. Data stored on their terminal is their data. Facebook would loot it's member's pics and use them without permission (per their ToS) in locally-focused advertisments. Your son's birthday party at Chuck E. Cheeses might be used in FB ads for Chuck E. Cheeses without your permission. The say MS could do similar things with the data that you store on their computer terminal.

Would they? Could they?

They're an illegal monopoly that are only allowed to exist because of an agreement with the US Justice Department, in exchange for providing whatever data on people (you) the NSA, or anyone else, may demand.

Another horror story is that, since it's MS's terminal, and MS's Operating System (you have a "license to use"), that means that whatever software is running their Operating System, and on their terminal, is subject to their ToS and full control.

So say, for example, you like to run a hacked version of "Assassin's Creed" on what used to be your computer. One day, in an effort to "encourage" people like you to purchase a legal, legitimate version of the game, Ubisoft makes a deal with Microsoft that, starting November 13th, any version of Ubisoft software found to be "non-legitimate" will be uninstalled automatically from any computer running Win10. So Ubisoft pays MS $4,500,000 to scrub thousands of illegal copies of Ubisoft software from Win10 machines and then makes $10,000,000 in new game software sales.

Would they? Could they? It's their computer. It's their Operating System. The software is illegal, which makes you a criminal. You should be grateful they don't phone your local police, have you arrested and facing both criminal charges and civil penalties. The RIAA/MPAA wants about $2,000 for every illegal song that they find on your computer, so I wonder how much Ubisoft will want for one of their games.

Main point I'd like readers to retain, aside from the ranting, is that the major shift from Win8 to Win10 is the nature of the relationship between you the User and Microsoft the Operating System provider. It's no longer "your" software, and you are no longer given an unlimited license to use that software. You are authorized to use whatever software they decide to give you, and if you don't like it, you can switch to Linux. However, you don't get any money back if you paid any. That part, where the money goes to MS and never comes back no matter how dissatisfied with their product you are, still stays the same. Another thing to consider is the nature of the "free" software. Nothing is ever free, and MS didn't make bajillions of dollars by giving things away for free. Win7 still costs $100 new on eBay. Remember that agreement between MS and the US Department of Justice, and the fact that US anti-trust laws do not apply to MS for some "mysterious" reason. There's a lot of that kind of thing going on lately, don't you think?


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

*Oh, and...*

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

I don't run w10 anymore, in part because of the privacy issues, partially because it is a resource and bandwidth hog, but mostly because I really don't car for the look and feel and because I got tired of having to reinstall current drivers every time MS decides to 'update' by installing year old versions. 

But as far as people who tune and tweak windows by uninstalling features, disabling services and so on being accused of hacking, it's simply not hacking. 
If you read the license/terms of service, it says you can't decompile or reverse engineer, It doesn't say that you have to run the software in it's entirety, or use everything included with the OS.
I can't legally edit/patch system files,but I can disable, remove and sometimes replace them with alternatives that work the way I want. 
I can disable services that start programs I don't want running and that's all legal.

Where you get into the hack/crack is when you start replacing files that enable features you don't have a license for.

From the windows 10 TOS:
Some of the software features send or receive information when using those features. Many of these features can be switched off in the user interface, or you can choose not to use them. By accepting this agreement and using the software you agree that Microsoft may collect, use, and disclose the information as described in the Microsoft Privacy Statement (aka.ms/privacy), and as may be described in the user interface associated with the software features.

Since it says 'you may choose not to use them', you do not have to use them. If the features can't be turned off through the user interface, the option is to use other means to disable or remove them.


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

kendallt said:


> Since it says 'you may choose not to use them', you do not have to use them. If the features can't be turned off through the user interface, the option is to use other means to disable or remove them.


Word on my deconstruction forum is that Win10 can "turn on" anything they like, that you've turned off. The notion that the User can turn things on is a psychological ploy to give them the illusion of control and privacy. Win10 is a dumb computer terminal, and MS has full, 100% control over the data that's on their computer.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Yes, some things do get turned back on, that's where deleting comes in 
In some cases the old empty file trick works well. 
The OS itself is good, but the auto-update with absolutely no real testing really bites. Get rid of all the background processes and it's actually impressively fast. But with all the garbage running and installed, it's a dog.


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

kendallt said:


> Yes, some things do get turned back on, *that's where deleting comes in*
> In some cases the old empty file trick works well.
> The OS itself is good, but the auto-update with absolutely no real testing really bites. Get rid of all the background processes and it's actually impressively fast. But with all the garbage running and installed, it's a dog.


That word "deleting" means the same thing as "hacking", which is a violation of Win10's ToS. I saw a comparitive study between Win7, Win8 and Win10, and long story short, each of them "won" in performance tests, depending on what function was being stressed during the test. In short, they are all equivalent.

I've been reading people extolling the virtues of their slimmed-down Operating System since WinXP was new, and everyone hated it because it was "bloated" and slow, and happily, "once you got rid of all that CRAP, WinXP ran super fast". It's a common, boilerplate opinion, and has been around for at least a decade, and it's been said of every single Operating System.

I used to put a LOT of effort into "turning things off". Services, primarily. Used to read this website by some guy named "Black Viper". And then strange symptoms would appear. Registry entries that were supposed to be there, weren't there, because the service that was supposed to make sure they happened, was disabled. Dangerous stuff. Puts you in crazyville. Breaking it and then a month later trying to fix whatever it was that you can't remember you did.

Anyways, point is all the User's perceptions of the O/S are illusions. It's all meaningless. That's Microsoft's Operating System, and Microsoft's computer and you are allowed to use their computer, but only if you follow their rules and they have no rules and can do anything they want. Just like your government.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Uninstalling/removing something that is unused is not hacking, perhaps that explains why your 'deconstruction forum' seems to be having so much trouble with w10? have fun with that then


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## Walter Mitty (Oct 5, 2016)

kendallt said:


> Uninstalling/removing something that is unused is not hacking, perhaps that explains why your 'deconstruction forum' seems to be having so much trouble with w10? have fun with that then


Well let's be clear. You said things could be "turned off", and I said MS could "turn them back on" and then you went with "deleting" which means either data or registry entries. The ToS is pretty clear about who owns the O/S. That's MS's data you are "deleting". They claim it, they own it, and "deleting" anything about it fits the definition of "hacking".

I didn't understand the last part of your post. It's not "my" forum. I go there, I read things. I read things there that would not be allowed here, and in many other white hat forums. They do things like (for example) monitor Win10's operations with wireshark and find out which processes are connecting to the internet, to what IP Address they are connecting to and for what purpose, and then researching to see if MS has released this information to the public. Frequently MS has not, and these people discover that Win10 is doing things that no one else knows about, because no one else cares enough to monitor Win10 in order to find out what it's doing behind the scenes.

People red-pill at their own rate (if at all), and it's terrifying to have it shoved at you uninvited. Especially if you've "bought in" to the idea that there's a clear line between good and bad, right and wrong, legal and illegal, etc... And, for most people, and for the most part, there is. However as you learn and evolve, you (me, at least) realize that the most critical, most important decisions are those you are never given an opportunity to participate in. SOPA. Sony Rootkit. NSA surveillance. Etc... And, particularly on a focused, technical forum, you can't have conversations spiraling all over the stratosphere while some poor OP has a broken computer. But on the other hand, frequently the short-hand that we use to abbreviate these conversations are interpreted by laypersons to mean something completely different from reality, and they become, in effect, a lie. The truth is, under Win10, that's not your computer, that's not your Operating System, that's not your data and you don't "own" anything on it at all, and the only "rights" you have are those that MS gives you, and that means none at all, as rights have supernatural origin. No one can "give" you rights. All they can do is take them away. Which MS has done.

Note the title of the thread. Is MS "forcing" Win10? Well, if you believe in the immorality of the monopoly, and centuries held traditional value of western civilization, then the answer is YES. Merely by existing as an illegal monopoly, MS is "forcing" anything and everything having to do with Windows. It goes DIRECTLY to the nature of a monopoly and why they were deemed to be so morally and socially bad that they were outlawed. The Federal Government broke up the Bell corporation just 30 years ago, for less reason, and legal justification.

There's a reason WHY MS has been given the ability to operate as a Monopoly (with all of it's shady legal history of theft and predatory practices having been rewarded and gone unpunished). I get the idea that the OP's question was asked in a limited sense, i.e. "Is there a set of 1's and 0's that FORCE you to upgrade to Win10 despite the fact that you explicitly indicated to your software that you did not want to?", and my answer is YES, and you AGREED to allow MS to do anything it wants to when you "signed" their ToS."

If you don't have that perspective as your fundamental starting point, than any conversation and any opinions are at best meaningless, and at worst a complete lie.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Hmm, your timeline is mixed. If you read my first response to your post, I mentioned uninstall, delete several times. 
It is Microsoft's OS, it's my computer, and nowhere in the TOS does it say you can't remove, uninstall or delete parts you do not use.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

This Topic was sorted long ago, the OP can request it to be reopened, should there be a need.

/locked


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