# Kernel 41 crashes on desktop



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

Hello everyone,

I didn't know where to post this so feel free to move the topic to another, more appropriate subforum if you feel it belongs there.

About a month ago my desktop computer (specs below) started freezing during a very GPU and CPU intensive game I was playing. I would launch the game and about 5-10 minutes later, the game would freeze, the speakers would give a very annoying "brrr" sound, and my computer would reboot.

At first I thought it was a temperature problem, seeing as how the game was very intensive. So I downloaded SpeedFan and started logging the temperatures, but these were within normal ranges (CPU max was about 60, GPU max was about 70). Even after reducing the graphics settings it would continue to crash.

I googled kernel 41 and did many things, among others:

Turned off fast start-up, updated drivers, changed debugging information to kernel memory dump, did Dism /online /cleanup-image /CheckHealth in CMD, checked both disks (SSD and HDD, both 100% okay), cleaned every corner of the computer case of dust, and the crashes seemed to stop for a while. Then, about a week later, the crashes would re-appear, only this time I would crash 2 minutes into booting up my PC, or when watching a video on YouTube, or when browsing games on Steam. It didn't matter whether I was connected to the internet or had the ethernet cable unplugged, my computer would simply freeze and reboot. Randomly. Sometimes immediately after booting into Windows 10, other times after 4 hours of intensive gaming/work.

Every time this happened, the Kernel 41 error was listed as the main culprit in Event Viewer. No other error, just this one.

Today, I switched my 550 W PSU for a 750 W PSU, hoping to god that the crashes would go away. No luck, after booting the computer, not only did it crash 2 minutes after boot-up, but it doesn't recognise my HDD anymore.

Does anyone else have any idea what could be causing this and how to fix it?

My specs:
Intel i7-7700K 4.5 GHz, GeForce GTX 1070 8 GB, 2x 8GB RAM, PSU Asus ROG Strix 750W 80 PLUS Gold, Samsung 850 Evo SSD 500 GB, WD Blue HDD 1 TB, Windows 10 Pro x64


----------



## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Try setting your Power Options so HDD never shuts off.


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

So I booted up the computer, it froze immediately and went into BSOD. The error code I got was "DPC Watchdog Violation".

Googled it, rebooted the computer, prayed it wouldn't restart, went to Device Manager and updated the driver for Standard SATA AHCI Controller. Waiting what will happen now.

As for the HDD, I went into Control Panel > Power & Sleep > Additional Power Settings > Change Plan Settings > Change Advanced Power Settings and under "Turn off hard disk after" I put in "0 minutes". No luck, the HDD is still not recognised by Windows.

EDIT (update): the computer hasn't crashed yet, but the boot time is much, much longer than it was before, and I also get a mini-freeze (about 5 seconds or so) immediately after logging into Windows. Also, under Standard SATA AHCI Controller > Driver > Driver Details, I only have the file "storahci.sys" and no "iastora.sys" as Google suggests. Could this have anything to do with it?

EDIT2: Bios doesn't recognise the HDD either.


----------



## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Try "NEVER" rather than 0.

EDIT: Forgot to ask. Is Windows totally up to date?


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

Tried it with Never, still no luck.

Windows is (should be) up to date, Windows Update is on and is updated regularly.


----------



## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Rerun DSIM then run sfc /scannow.


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

Tried both, still no luck. HDD remains unrecognised and reset times are still very long.


----------



## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

OK. Let's sort things out. Is SSD your main disc and HD for storage. Is neither showing in Bios and File explorer or is one in both or in one. Also use your Snipping Tool (or similar) and post your Disc Management panel (Start>Windows Admin Tools>Computer Management>Disc Management).


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

My SSD (500 GB) holds the Windows system, which is why I am able to boot into Windows. My HDD (1 TB) holds other files, pictures, media, games. My SSD is visible in Bios and in Disk Manager and works fine (Disk Check found no issues). My HDD is not visible in Bios or in Disk Manager.


----------



## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

Have you tried replacing cables power and data cable


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

Yes, I have. At first I left my old cables from my old 550 W PSU, and then I used cables that came with the new 750 PSU. Neither of them worked.


----------



## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

Then sounds like the hard drive might have failed. Without me reading entire thread have you tried it on another computer?


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

That's what I'm worried about as well. But even if it did die, it doesn't explain why my computer experiences short (5-10 second long) freezes after logging into Windows.

I haven't tried it on another computer because this is the only desktop computer that I have.


----------



## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

nobir said:


> That's what I'm worried about as well. But even if it did die, it doesn't explain why my computer experiences short (5-10 second long) freezes after logging into Windows.
> 
> I haven't tried it on another computer because this is the only desktop computer that I have.


Disconnect the drive and see if freeze goes away


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

Disconnected it and turned the computer on.

At first boot I got no freeze at the beginning, but I did get it about half a minute later, followed by a BSOD and the "DPC Watchdog Violation" error.

After the computer rebooted and I was back in Windows, I got the standard 5-10 second initial freeze.

Just a question, could the Nvidia driver be causing this and if so, what would be the best way to completely remove the driver (every single trace of it) and then reinstall it?


----------



## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

you could use this and then reinstall driver Display Driver Uninstaller Download version 18.0.4.2 (guru3d.com)


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

Thanks for the link but I can't get it around to performing the process. My system gets constantly interrupted by something (the freezes are now reoccuring every 10 or so seconds, each lasting 5-10 seconds). There's nothing special in Task Manager, only the System Interrupt Services (or something like that) gets to the top of CPU usage, and there is nothing in Event Viewer apart from a couple of exclamation marks in yellow about a DCOM connection or something.

EDIT: Booted into safe mode, removed the driver there and then reinstalled it in normal mode. No freezes in safe mode and also there were no freezes in normal mode after two reboots, apart from one short freeze about a minute into the second boot. Something is still interrupting the system.


----------



## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

you could try a clean boot. How to perform a clean boot in Windows (microsoft.com)


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

Tried it and the culprit is apparently one of the four Nvidia drivers, specifically Nvidia LocalSystem Container. When I turn this off, the computer runs without freezes for the full 5 minutes I have it powered on. But when I turn this on, I experience a short freeze about a minute after logging into Windows. Hopefully this is the end to the freezing problem.

The only two problems I have now are the non-functioning HDD and the speed at which the computer boots up. Whenever I restarted the computer, it would boot up almost immediately. Now, after the "Restarting" screen, my display turns off with the "No signal" error displayed on it, the green light on the screen turns orange and it takes about 15 seconds for the screen to turn back on again. The computer remains operational this whole time (it doesn't shut off).

Also, if I go to My Computer and do right click > Properties, the Settings window initially appears, but then disappears.


----------



## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

Can you turn it on In Bios>System Setup?


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Good job on the detective work finding out the app that was freezing your computer. 
Is the Non Functioning HDD still attached when you restart? If so, this would be the booting problem. Unplug it and see if boot time returns to normal. 
For your other issue, type *CMD* in Search and Right click the *CMD *results and *Run As Administrator.* In the Elevated Command Prompt type or copy and paste

*DISM /Online /CLEANUP-IMAGE /RestoreHealth * and press Enter. After that completes, type

*SFC /scannow* and press Enter. This will replace any missing system Files.


----------



## pbug56 (Sep 20, 2008)

Couple thoughts;

1. The Nvidia error is interesting. Recently I had a PC that kept crashing, and I'd do things to try fixing it. Each time I'd get a different dump cause. One of them suggested my NVIDIA drivers and I updated them.
2. Also did the DISM.
3. Also did SFC /scannow.

Along the way, after the above, PC went back to normal. FYI, all started shortly after doing monthly Windoze updates. Besides some files being corrupted, I believe there was an incompatibility with the older NVIDIA driver and the updates.


----------



## pbug56 (Sep 20, 2008)

nobir said:


> Tried it and the culprit is apparently one of the four Nvidia drivers, specifically Nvidia LocalSystem Container. When I turn this off, the computer runs without freezes for the full 5 minutes I have it powered on. But when I turn this on, I experience a short freeze about a minute after logging into Windows. Hopefully this is the end to the freezing problem.
> 
> The only two problems I have now are the non-functioning HDD and the speed at which the computer boots up. Whenever I restarted the computer, it would boot up almost immediately. Now, after the "Restarting" screen, my display turns off with the "No signal" error displayed on it, the green light on the screen turns orange and it takes about 15 seconds for the screen to turn back on again. The computer remains operational this whole time (it doesn't shut off).
> 
> Also, if I go to My Computer and do right click > Properties, the Settings window initially appears, but then disappears.


Do you have an external SATA dock or cable (to USB3) that you can use with the drive? I'd boot without the drive, see how you do, then plug the drive into a USB3 port with the dock or cable.


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

So, to answer your questions:

No, the disk is invisible in BIOS and there is no way for me to turn it on.

DISM and SFC scan did nothing, the system is as slow as before, with or without the defective HDD plugged in.

I have no external SATA dock to troubleshoot with, unfortunately.

I honestly don't know what caused this. Not only reboot, but when I turn the computer on, the first thing I see on the screen is "No Signal", and after about 10 seconds it first shows the AS Rock logo (my motherboard) and the Windows logo appears only about 7 seconds after. So a total of 20+ seconds for a normal boot! For comparison, my computer would boot in an instant (less than 3 seconds) a couple of months ago.

EDIT: I just tried pressing the button on my DVD-RW drive, the LED lights up but the DVD-RW does not come out. Moments later, it gives out a sign (like a disc spinning) and that's it.

The hell is going on with this computer?! Could these problems be related with me changing the PSU?


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

nobir said:


> No, the disk is invisible in BIOS


This means that disk has failed and it is slowing down the whole computer. If you unplug that drive or better yet remove it, the computer will be a lot more stable.


----------



## pbug56 (Sep 20, 2008)

nobir said:


> So, to answer your questions:
> 
> No, the disk is invisible in BIOS and there is no way for me to turn it on.
> 
> ...


FYI, external docks are not expensive, some are cable only, plug into a USB(3) port. 

Question - have you tried booting with only the system drive? Oh and note that booting without Fast Boot does take longer. I'm also beginning to think that you've done something to hose Windows.

Do you have another PC to do some testing with? Again, I'd get an external dock or cable, boot up that other system and then plug in the data drive via the external dock or cable to see if you can look at it. If you can, try to check its SMART status. Now if you have a dual external dock or cable or two singles, and a replacement drive, you can get free software to copy to the new one. Some dual docks may do this on their own but I think they can be rather iffy. 

I'm also wondering if you've got all your PSU cable connections in correctly. 

I would remove everything from the PC not needed. If you have built in on board graphics, for instance, remove the video card. Same with sound. Any external devices you don't need.


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

That's just it, it's the same if I have it plugged in or not. And I activated Fast Boot again, but the speed is the same as it was before - very, very slow.

When I bought the new 750 PSU, I kept the old SATA cables and when I tried turning the PC on, it wouldn't boot. After replacing the SATA cables with the new ones, the computer finally booted up. Could it be that I fried the HDD by using the old SATA cables on the new PSU? And if yes, how come it only fried the HDD and not the SSD too?

I tried unplugging the video card and the problems are still there.

Attached is the wiring to the PSU.


----------



## pbug56 (Sep 20, 2008)

Unplugging the video card? You mean the card is still in the slot?

Again - try running the PC as bare bones as possible. Nothing external other than mouse, keyboard, display and speakers. And checking every single cable connection still in use. 

Also, check startup for APPS (your apps, not system apps) that don't need to be part of startup, or can be set to delayed.


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

Okay, I took the video card out and there is no change in the delay.

And about the start-up, I did this experiment earlier last week when I tried to determine the cause of crashes. The boot time was as slow as it is now.


----------



## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

Any help here?









Advanced troubleshooting for Event ID 41 - 'The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first' - Windows Client Management


Describes the circumstances that cause a computer to generate Event ID 41, and provides guidance for troubleshooting the issue



docs.microsoft.com


----------



## pbug56 (Sep 20, 2008)

I've found so many things that can screw up PC's. ANYTHING connected to a data port. Anything taking power. Almost any app. My all time favorite, Norton.

Have you found anything in the event logs?


----------



## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

By any chance is any Intel utility software installed, other than drivers? I have always found Intel and AMD utility software most hurtful in slowing pcs down, I never install any of it.


----------



## pbug56 (Sep 20, 2008)

Rich-M said:


> By any chance is any Intel utility software installed, other than drivers? I have always found Intel and AMD utility software most hurtful in slowing pcs down, I never install any of it.


I found Intel storage software on a PC it's not meant for can make a real mess, using a lot of CPU and doing nothing with it.

I try to avoid AMD graphics because for years it could freeze up PC's and even crash them. Hopefully a long since fixed problem. If you have an AMD CPU or GPU you probably do need AMD utilities, though.


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

These are Intel's services in System Config > Services:

Intel Dynamic Application Loader Host Interface Service
Intel Capability Licensing Service TCP IP Interface
Intel TPM Provisioning Service

I've tried everything now, even going back to the old PSU. My HDD is dead, apparently, and the boot is as slow as ever. Does anyone have any more ideas or do I really need to format? And if I do have to format (i.e. clean install of Windows), is it possible to do it without the USB key, like is there some software in Windows that completely wipes off everything, every driver, every update, everything BUT the core Windows files?


----------



## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

A fresh install of Windows is the best way to 'wipe off everything'. 

You could use a DVD disc instead of a USB flash drive ... if your computer has a DVD drive of course.


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

It does, but it doesn't open in Windows (it hangs for some seconds, then a spinning sound is heard and the drive does not eject) so dunno if I fried that too or if it's just in Windows.


----------



## pbug56 (Sep 20, 2008)

I would agree that your Windows installation is likely hosed and from what you've described, not readily repairable at this point. Besides, it's the data that counts, not the system installation. I would, if I were you, get any data copied off to something like a flash drive. Keep in mind some directories default to the system drive, like documents, downloads, and the user directories, so these should all be backed up safely. Then, if your system is not old, go for a recent (through 21H1) version of Windows, get the official ISO from MS (easy to do if current), and do a full wipe clean installation. 

At this point you've got nothing to lose, IMHO. If the clean installation doesn't work, look at the mobo. It's also possible that the new PSU is faulty, may have even damaged the mobo. But if the clean install works with the new PSU, you've made progress. Then you can think about the data drive. Side note; most mobos have multiple ports to hook up SATA drives, some 3gbps, some 6gbps (which SATA version). Sometimes even two SATA controllers like my ASUS mobo has. Sometimes a given port may be damaged, sometimes all ports on a controller. Also, SATA cables can give up the ghost even while looking perfect. They are cheap, easy to get, and you should always have some spares. A bad cable can make a good drive look bad.

Drive utilities can also be helpful in figuring out what's going on. Most can read the SMART status from the drive, some can do error scans (like HDTune 2.55). 

As to your HDD, again, get an external dock or cable with USB3 connector on the PC end and hook up to a known, working PC. Try to determine if the drive is completely dead, or damaged. There is free recovery software out there (maybe EASUS) to try and get what you can off of it. If you have two of these external hookups you might be able to copy the bad HDD to a new one. Might.


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

So, another and probably last update from me. A clean install of Windows helped, I went to Settings > Update & Security > Recovery > Reset this PC. Wiped everything off and the boot time is as fast as it was a couple of months ago. The DVD drive is gone, though, it doesn't open even under the new Windows OS.

So, yeah, not sure what to think of everything. It's a good thing I do monthly backups, otherwise I'd be screaming my head off right now.

And as for the HDD, I'll try hooking it up at a friend's place, although I'm not too optimistic it will work.


----------



## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

Awesome. Good to hear it's back up and running.


----------



## pbug56 (Sep 20, 2008)

Which PSU are you using, the old one or the new one? As to the DVD drive, replace the cable or cables, use a different (SATA?) port and try again. But if you did fry it, at least a plain DVD RW drive is dirt cheap to replace.

In the meantime, get a system image as soon as you can. Plus have more than one Admin account in case your main one gets blown away. Get some software tools to check SMART status and the drives in general once in a while.

Is your video card in and being used? Any other peripherals you still need to reattach?

If you do need a new HDD, buy a good one, decent but not crazy size, and see if you can restore your data from one of your backups. And redirect 'libraries' from the System drive to the data drive.


----------



## nobir (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm using the new one now, with the cables that came with it.

My video card is attached as it should be and the entire system works like a charm.

As for the HDD, I bought a 1 TB SSD instead. Like I said, the good thing about everything is that I made monthly backups to an external drive so all of the important data on the HDD was backed up.

And thank you for all the advice, I'll also try attaching a different cable to the DVD drive and see if that makes any difference. Doubt it, though.


----------



## pbug56 (Sep 20, 2008)

Do you have one drive NOW or two? It's good practice to have a SSD as system drive and a good HDD as data drive, the ideas being 1. if the system gets blown away, your data is not affected, 2. SDD's are great for your software and system, but constant change of data wear them out. A good HDD holds data well with lots of changes for a lot of time.

FYI, NEVER defragment a SSD drive.


----------

