# Outlet 1940-->2009



## zerofire (Nov 4, 2008)

Me and my mother have been talking about redoing many of our wall outlets to support three prongs (most only take 2 prongs in the building). My computers need a adapter just to get plugged into the wall. I would like to know what I would need to do to have this change go into effect without getting a expensive electrician to sap the money from our paychecks. Just for the record I do not need to be told to buy the new plugs. I already know that I have to do that.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Most likely you only have 2 wires feeding the outlets the netural and the hot, the 3 prong outlets require 3 wires netural, hot and ground. 
Local municipalities usually have building codes which control what you do yourself most will require a registered licensed electrician and require a a complete rewire. You may be able to run a few new outlets from the main panel to where you need them and leave the existing wiring alone all depends on local laws and of course your existing main panel.


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## zerofire (Nov 4, 2008)

I do believe that the circuit breaker panel is fine since some outlets are three prong already. I will however look at the local regulations to be sure but since we do not know what way we are going to do this yet I can hold off. How difficult would it be in theory to add the ground wire to an outlet?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

It depends on what is in the outlet if it is a 2 wire cable then it needs to be rewired to a 3 wire.


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## yustr (Sep 27, 2004)

I'd open one of the two prong outlets. The ground may just be lying there. If so, wiring up a new three prong plug is a snap (crackle, pop!)


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi zerofire,

Wrench has given you some good advice.....but if you decide to try a fix yourself, let me give you some details. Outside city limits, there is normally no code that requires an electrician to do the work, though it is a good idea to have one do it. An electrician knows that 110 volt circuits kill more folks each year than any other voltage and here is why. If an electrical current is caused to pass through your body and across the heart, only a few milli amperes is required to cause fibrilation of the heart (very quick pluses that don't pump blood). Feeling the pluse tells the tail and someone must beat on your chest until rhythm is regained and then artificial recessitation is required. Work with one hand in your back pocket is a good idea. Be advised of the dangers. Throw the breakers and measure each circuit for voltage before starting to work on them. Tape a note on the breaker so everyone knows not to throw the breaker while you are working on the circuit. Serious work, so be careful. 

Houses are normally wired with romex cable. Three wires in a sleave. Black, white, and green. Black is the hot wire (115vac), white is neutral, and green is the ground (physical ground that connects to an 8 foot copper clad stake in the ground under the meter outside the house). Romex cable is normally marked with the wire size. #12 wire will carry 20 amperes. #14 wire will carry 15 amperes. Breakers and/or fuses should be sized accordingly. The breaker/fuse is sized to protect the house (not the attached equipment). The neutral and ground (white and green wires)are normally connect to the ground buss in the breaker panel. A green wire from there goes to the ground stake outside. The white wire goes to one of the wires connected to the transformer outside the house at the utility pole. (It is also grounded at the pole to a coil of wire on the pole bottom or a stake in the ground) 

Why is there a ground wire? The ground wire is connected to metal objects that might get shorted to the hot wire. (the metal case of an old style drill, metal vent hood, etc.) When a short occurs, it throws the breaker if the ground wire is connected. Old two wire circuits didn't have this and you could get shocked when holding the shorted metal and accidentally touching a grounded object (water pipe, etc.) Without the ground connection, you can touch a shorted metal object and not know it until you touch a ground like a water pipe. I know this by experience. 

If you try this yourself, be very careful. I would suggest that you use a trained electrician. Get some quotes to make sure you aren't being overcharged.

Best regards,
Mack1


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## zerofire (Nov 4, 2008)

I was already aware of the need to cut the breaker before beginning work I am not stupid enough to work with live wire without knowing what I am doing. I took electronics in my first year of high school so I just want the advanced stuff not the plainly obvious.


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

> I was already aware of the need to cut the breaker before beginning work I am not stupid enough to work with live wire without knowing what I am doing. I took electronics in my first year of high school so I just want the advanced stuff not the plainly obvious.


Great. Then you know that electronics folks think the black wire is ground.
Not true in house wiring, black is the Hot wire. 

Have fun.

Mack1


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

zerofire said:


> I was already aware of the need to cut the breaker before beginning work I am not stupid enough to work with live wire without knowing what I am doing. I took electronics in my first year of high school so I just want the advanced stuff not the plainly obvious.


Mack1 was only concerned for your safety and did not imply that he thought you were stupid enough to work on a live wire. 

Anyone can make a mistake when working with wiring (been there and done that and am pretty darn experienced in house wiring since I have completely wired 3 houses I built and they each had electric heat with 200 amp service), so he was just trying to caution you to be careful so you are safe.

BTW, I had a similar situation like you have in one house I remodeled for my sister and brother-in-law. There was an area of the house that my sister was turning in to a beauty shop and that added on addition only had a two wire service to that addition. 

I had to go back to the box, set the ground and run a separate wire to each plug in that area of the house before the city inspector would let them have the beauty shop in that area. I simply ran a single wire from the box to the attic area and went to a junction box where I split the ground to go to each separate outlet. Worked like a charm except feeding those darn things are tough to do down the wall. Doable, but not fun.

BTW, in this county, one has to have two grounds for each electrical service box (yep, two cables from box to grounding stake that is deep in to the ground). Each electrical service box must also have that green grounding screw put in the service box. 

Don't know what your code is, but please read it before you waste a lot of time having to redo something if you are having it inspected.


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## zerofire (Nov 4, 2008)

@mack1
Actually electronic people accept yellow or black as negative while green is either negative or positive and red and white as positive only. Those are only if proper color coding is used on the wire. If I saw black, white and green I would instantly say that something is wrong with the coloring since the layout is very uncommon.

@all
Just for the record when I read a wire as hot that is interpreted the same as live or active. There is no charge designation. So if I use the plug wire coloring as an example then both black and white would be marked as hot when the plug is in use.

@Tumbleweed36
I will check the code when I do get around to either doing the work myself or calling a contracted electrician. The shoving of the wire was a known irritant. Same was true for putting in insulation when all the stuff packed into half the kitchen wall landed on the washer and drier in the basement. Are you sure that the grounding laws are placed by the federal government? I thought the states set those.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

In house wiring White is always neutral, Bare or Green is always the ground, Black or Red are the most common but any other color is Hot.


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## Tumbleweed36 (May 14, 2005)

zerofire said:


> @Tumbleweed36
> I will check the code when I do get around to either doing the work myself or calling a contracted electrician. The shoving of the wire was a known irritant. Same was true for putting in insulation when all the stuff packed into half the kitchen wall landed on the washer and drier in the basement. Are you sure that the grounding laws are placed by the federal government? I thought the states set those.


What I meant to say (geez, I can't seem to get it right) was that there is a National Electrical code, but some local codes are different than others, so you need to be aware of the differences that you might find in a book somewhere. Hope I said it right this time. :4-dontkno


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

What kind of cable to you have? Is it the romex type (Rubbler/Plastic cover)
Knob and Tube (Exposed 2 wires) or maybe BX ( Metal flexible). If you have already have BX, and it is grounded already, I think you can use it as the ground.

BG


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