# Hey guys magical with some case cooling questions



## Magical (Feb 22, 2006)

i've only really delt with older computers so far im getting the hang of new ones pretty quickly but sadly im at a stuck again. i am uncertain about case cooling. well let me just be basic and striaght i have no freaking idea about case cooling im am so noob about this im like a caveman lol Forcifer and TimK gave me some suggestions but if i dont want watercooling is there another way? and if i can only do water cooling what exactly do i need and whats compatible?... i know about psu fans, and thats about it, everything else i know nothing about... im about to give you the specs on the computer that i have finally about finished and will be able to build very very soon. i just need help with this final issue then i will be able to buy and start building and so forth. CAN YOU HELP ME!!!!!! 

Pc Case: Xion Black Xion II Xon-103
Processor-AMD Athlon 64 FX 57
MotherBoard-Abit AN8 32x nVIDA nFORCE SLIx16
Graphic Cards-2 eVGA GeForce 7800GT 256MB (will be 512 in sli)
Ram- 2GB Corsair XMS 184-in DDR 400 (PC3200)
Hard Drive-250GB Western Digital 16Mb cache
CDROM/DVDROM-NEC Black DVD Burner
Floppy Drive- Sony Internal Floppy
Monitor- BenQ FP716 = Black "17 8ms LCD
Keyboard- Logitech Ultra X Standard
Mouse- Microsoft Optical.
Power Supply- Akasa PAx Power Plus PSU-650 Watt (decided to up it)

all can be googled thanks for the support.


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## Ritespeed (May 3, 2005)

Are you over clocking? If yes Zalmann has a great fan. If not Overclocking why not just buy a regular factory AMD fan. I like to buy parts from www.tigerdirect.com or www.newegg.com they seem to be the price leaders.


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## timk9 (Feb 22, 2006)

Hi Magical. There are lots of different techniques for case cooling. Here are a few misc. tips. Any products I mention can be found at newegg.com, directron.com, tigerdirect.com, and other popular stores.

The traditional approach is one or two intake fans in the front and/or side, and two or more exhaust fans in the back, PSU, and/or top. You want about one more exhaust fan than intake so there is some negative pressure. 120mm fans can move more air than 80mm fans, so you can run them slower to keep them quiet. I recommend a front panel multifunction fan controller such as the AeroCool Cool Panel or units from Enermax. The unit can monitor temperature and allow you to adjust fan speed. There are also fancy front panels that control only fans.

My case was setup bass-ackwards from the factory but I've decided to leave it that way. Intake in the front AND BACK; exhaust in the side, PSU and top. See a problem here? Hot air from the PSU being recycled into the back intakes - duh. But I put half of a plastic drinking cup around the PSU fan to duct the air straight up, and cool air comes into the back. Works pretty well cause they are all 80s except the 120 in the side, it pushes more air out.

If you are at all uncomfortable with the idea of watercooling then absolutely don't do it until you're comfortable with your new system. It's expensive anyway. And if you do buy a watercooling unit, run it outside the case for a few days (or weeks if you can) to make sure there are no leaks. But you should still keep a couple case fans, since the watercooler will only cool the CPU/GPU/HD. Mine is a very basic unit, the CoolerMaster Aquagate Mini, which combines everything but the radiator into the CPU block.

I also recommend Zalman, CoolerMaster, or Thermaltake CPU coolers. There are dozens of great models from each, I don't use any so can't recommend one. Take a look at http://www.tomshardware.com or http://www.maximumpc.com and read some reviews and comparisons. Try not to pay too much for something that just looks fancy, but don't skimp either. And don't forget the thermal paste and apply it carefully!

If you were wondering about case fans, they are the same type used in your PSU and you can get them for only a couple bucks.

Wire management is also important for cooling. Use rounded cables and/or braided sleeving whenever you can, tuck them in around the edges of the case, and zipties are your friend. The more open space the better.

Hope this helps, sorry so long again,
Tim


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## gamerman0203 (Oct 28, 2005)

cooling in that system is going to be crucial. Having nearly comparable specs, I know that it will get warm. My system stays decently cool however. My CPU Temp under load gets no higher than 43 celcius due to my liquid cooling. I also have 1 intake fan on the front that blows in across my HDDs and 1 exhaust fan in the back that is also my radiator for the liquid cooling. My cases top panel is also 60% open for good air flow and the front is completely open (black mesh makes it look solid). I've never had an even close to dangerous temp. Hope that helps


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## Magical (Feb 22, 2006)

I have as of now for cooling the following- i have ram heat spreaders..... 2 120mm fans my psu fan wich i think is 80mm...and the cpu fan and thermal paste... and the things i have just told you came with the case-2 120mm fan 1 80mm and psu... then the ram has heat spreaders and the cpu has its stock fan and thermal stuff lol... what should i get? i have never used watercooling in my whole life how exactly do uhh you install it all... i never done it and i dont know what parts go where lol. i will take a look at the stuff though thanks everyone... of course still need some help on this end of the spectrum


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## forcifer (Nov 20, 2005)

that is a nice sys, but sir cooling is currently the seccond best. liquid nitrogen is best (yet VERY hard to use) so i would use air cooling. make sure that you get a QUALITY hsf and fans. id look for stuff from zalman. they seem to be the best right now


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## please (Mar 2, 2005)

@ magical
I just did a build using that same case the Xion 103 from Newegg with big rebate. I had recommended it a few months ago to someone here at TSF as it had several things I look for in a case, like 120mm fans front and back, front audio/usb/firewire ports. I liked the window and the side fan for the bling factor for this particular build. So I thought I would put my money where my mouth is.
For my setup, I added a blue 120mm fan for the back(exhaust). I also turned around the side fan to blow in(intake) as it was blowing out(exhaust) from the factory and the temps dropped >5C!! With the front 120mm fan blowing in, this system has great temps, even if it is a bit loud. I am now fine-tuning it for sound. 
Another thing I did with this case was cut out the restrictive stamped fan grills front and rear and added wire grills. This increases cooling efficiency and decreases noise..a win-win case mod. If you choose to cut, do it before installing any parts and clean up thoroughly after...tiny metal shavings can do very bad things to computers.
I have a P4 OC'd to 3.6GHz with an Arctic Cooling Freezer 4 HSF as the ACF4 was inexpensive and I had heard good things and wanted to try it. It works very well. With Prime95 I am seeing 48C CPU temps which is pretty good.
I also like the Zalman 7000 for its affordability and its cooling power. The Zalman may also be a better choice for this case since you have the side fan blowing in and that would add to the Zalman airflow. I think it may work against the ACF4 a bit due to its fan position relevent to the HS. So I have ordered a blue Zalman7000 to replace the ACF4. It also follows the 'blue' theme I have going as I also have installled an Antec 'true blue' PSU and added a blue Zalman fanless graphics card cooler...it looks pretty cool!!(pun intended:wink:
Some advice IMHO would be to try your air cooling first and see how it goes. Water cooling is superior, but unless you are OCing to the max, you can do just fine with air and save your $$$ for other performance parts.

Keep us posted with your progress


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## Magical (Feb 22, 2006)

WOW TALK ABOUT INFORMATION WOOT WOOT:sayyes: alright guys just to make sure i dont mess up gammer what kind of cooling system do you use in your computer? ...please thanks man for all the assistance i will take your advice about switching the side fan to blow air in...:grin: im not to sure about what you mean about the fan grills if you could explain more i can try and understand and a Zalmen graphic card cooler lol...:sayyes: i am writing this all down ...by the way lol. how powerful is that psu please is it sli powerful? thanks for your support guys and patiance im really not good at cooling... lol give me a hard drive i'll know what to do. give me a fan i'll probably short circut something lol. :dead:


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## timk9 (Feb 22, 2006)

Magical I agree with please and forcifer, get a quality HSF first. Don't do the liquid cooling until you get your feet wet (no pun intended) and are comfortable with these things. But to answer your question about how it works:

Four components to a watercooling setup: CPU/GPU/NB/HD water block, water reservoir, pump, and radiator. Some setups have the pump, radiator, and reservoir external to the case, are fairly large and have a good surface area to cool the water. Other systems are completely contained within the case and radiate on one of the case exhaust fans. My Aquagate Mini combines the pump into the CPU block, and there is no reservoir. It was prefilled at the factory and not modifiable. Not for hardcore overclockers but it's a good beginner's liquid cooler.

Tim


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## please (Mar 2, 2005)

@ Magical
The case comes with stamped fan grills that cover the fans. They are stamped as the case is manufactured. They are restrictive, which means that they prevent the flow of air more than they should or need to. I used some tin snips to remove them and then replaced the grills with wire-type grills

For the Zalman graphic card cooler, it was one I had attached to an ATI 9500(@9700 with unlocked pipe mod) so I used it because it was blue). Your cards may be too extreme for the Zalman fanless, but you may benefit from aftermarket cooling. I am sure the stock units are OK as well. Sounds like you have an awesome setup going 

The Antec 'true blue' PSU is 480 watts. It is a bit weak for your uber-system

Here's two views of the Xion 103 showing the cut out fan grill and the replacement wire grill. One picture with flash and one with no flash


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## Magical (Feb 22, 2006)

woot thanks again please i will make sure i look into that i like the power supply but yeah it wouldnt be enough for my rig... and now that you said that... im changing my powersupply again...Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-550 ATX12V 550W Power Supply and that will be my final change back i think that would be the best choice... also brought to my attention Forc managed to talk to me about the 57 FX processor being only single core...well i changed my processor because of that... to a AMD Athlon X 2 4800+ nothing else will change... now back to cooling...im going to do this in a step by step phase for dummies because i never had to change cooling for normal computers...sadly the computer im building is not normal (its going to be may baby)... Please im going to switch the fan thats a definet i have that written down... im still thinking about doing the cutting... and wire replacement. my ram will be fine considering they have there own heat spreaders... im not really worred about my hard drive. well lets start with the core... my cpu what do i need to cool that thing off? also im not sure about using the stock cooling for the geforce 7800gts are you sure that will be ok? and is there anything that can cool down my motherboard? i know that these things are mainly the things that get hot. thanks everyone for dealing with me considering that this must be extreamly irritating how noob i am about cooling...ROFL im like getting cooling lessons...101.


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## jnob (Nov 22, 2005)

IMO it is better to have about twice as much intake as exhaust. This helps create a good circulation of air rather than a vacuum and keeps the components dust free. I personally have 4 80mm fans in the front of my case taking in air past my hdd's. and 1 side 80mm intake. I have 2 80mm exhaust in the rear and have built up virtually no dust after a year. My motherboard never gets above 40C and my hdds stay between 30C-44C under heavy writing.


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## Magical (Feb 22, 2006)

thanks jnob my case has 2 120 mm fans i will switch one of them to intake air on the side i cant cut holes all over the case though that i own lol .. i have no frontal fans but thats fine i will have one of my 120mm fans blowing out air too... and then my psu will also have a fan that will blow air on inside my case also.... ram heat spreaders i will already have. im focusing on my cpu? im looking for some additional options of cooling that and also my graphic cards which are 7800GTs... then my motherboard if that will be neccesary.


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## timk9 (Feb 22, 2006)

You've already heard my opinions on CPU cooling so I won't waste your time again... I just wanted to reply to a couple things that just jumped out.

There is no specialized motherboard cooling you're asking about, just adequate case cooling. Also, I would reconsider not having a fan up front, not just to cool the hard drives but also to add to the front-to-back overall case cooling. And I hope I misread about your PSU fans. PSU temperatures rival CPU temperatures and you don't want to ever blow air into the case from the PSU. Always out.

Tim


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## Magical (Feb 22, 2006)

alright... uhhh... then exactly how will this fit in my case...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103931... and how do i add a intake fan to the front that has no placement for a fan? Please would you know? Timk sorry about overlooking the talking about CPU cooling... i see it now thanks man... now what about graphic card cooling?


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## please (Mar 2, 2005)

@ Magical\
The Xion 103 case should come with a 120mm fan up front. That should be blowing in(intake). It also has a rear 120mm fan blowing out. Pointing the side fan in and having the PSU fan(s) blowing out creates a balanced airflow and no fan is working against any other. IMHO this is the most efficient and thereby the coolest with least noise possible. This should be enough for cooling your rig. I am not sure where you are thinking your case has no front fan unless you removed it your self.

For your video cards, the stock units should be fine for keeping them cool. They may be a bit noisy, but give them a try first. There are other aftermarket coolers that will improve the cooling and noise level, but you may find you are OK with the stock units.

As tempting as it is to create the ideal system on the first try, you may be better served thinking of your system as a work-in-progress and let it evolve and improve your system as needed. You might want to get it up and running before deciding on what changes to make.

Good luck and keep us posted with your progress.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

Magical:


I agree with Please's cooling methods he gets the most out of fan cooling

if you have no place to put fans in the front of your case it may be your case model is not a good choice for you ???????

also for what its worth >>>> I would avoid the antec TP-550 they have voltage fluctutations which are deadly for system stability >>>> I was a former lover of them >>>> see my signature I WAS running and selling them !! I have sold 17 of them in the last 18 months and three days ago I just got my 3rd one back >>>> its boxed up now and headed for RMA 

my personal opinion of Antec now is they are a upper medium class of quality PSU they are more attractive because of their under $100.00 price tag

in your shoes I would go for the Enermax Noisetaker EG-701 600 watt far superior in quality and stability and passed several reviews with flying collors (the antec TP-550 didnt fair so well !!) >>>> the only think negative thing ANY review has stated about the EG-701 is it lacks bling ~~~ bling 

its a tad pricier at $169.00 but if you want stable and quiet its a real champ >>>>>> @ *Please* had a link for good perfroming SLI componets you could ask him for that link ??????? I have been very happy with my EG-701 and I personally discontinued using Antec >>>> although they gave me no hassle about replacing them >>>> and maybe they know what the problem was and fixed it ????????? who knows


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

just like me read on >>> scroll down to *ziptar*

http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?threadid=34650




google search *power fluctuations antec tru-power 550*


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## crazijoe (Oct 19, 2004)

linderman,
I'm kinda suprised. I have been running Antec TP 550's in my wifes for about 2 years and mine about a year without a hitch. I switched mine out from an ailing Enermax EG651P-VE 550 watt when I had issues with it not powering up all the time from a full system shut down.


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## Magical (Feb 22, 2006)

i will work on this guys thanks alot... after i get my hands on appaoch i should know more about it, i will call back if i run into any problems, Please you saved me alot of trouble thanks alot man. and thanks for the support everyone.


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## please (Mar 2, 2005)

The SLI link to the sli-zone that *linderman* was referring to(hey lindy!:wave. I removed this link from my sig because I felt the verification process was a bit questionable as many PSUs that are capable or worthy are not on the list and some PSUs that are on the list are questionable IMHO. An interesting site nonetheless...it is run by nVidia.


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## mike wilson (Apr 10, 2006)

jnob said:


> IMO it is better to have about twice as much intake as exhaust. This helps create a good circulation of air rather than a vacuum and keeps the components dust free. I personally have 4 80mm fans in the front of my case taking in air past my hdd's. and 1 side 80mm intake. I have 2 80mm exhaust in the rear and have built up virtually no dust after a year. My motherboard never gets above 40C and my hdds stay between 30C-44C under heavy writing.



Wrong way round. If you're stuffing loads of air in there and not extracting it, it's doing nothing. Worse than that, you could cause the input fan to stall. If you (try to) extract more than you put in, then all that you put in will be doing something. No vacuum, just lots of moving air. You are actually helping the input fan rather than hindering it.

If you are keeping the components dust free, by definition you don't have much air circulating.....

mike


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