# Need help with building budgeted gaming desktop (amateur)



## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Hello - I created this thread because I need guidance on building a gaming desktop. I don't have much experience with this - so far all my experience is replacing a video card and putting in some thermal paste. 

My goal is to make a great GAMING PC for my little brother for about 600-800$ - i want to try to not go over 700 but i also want to get the most out of my money. I am using websites such as google, newegg( especially the reviews!), toms hardware, pricewatch, and tigerdirect. I won't get state of the art technology with that budget, but I still want it to last a good number of years with the latest games. I live in and will be buying from the USA.


Keep in mind that since i have never built a computer so I'm not really sure too sure what I'm doing. I figured that i would order all the parts and then just try to put it together.

So far, the parts that I think I need are:

*Motherboard
Processor
Video Card
RAM
Monitor
Computer Case
Hard Drive
Keyboard
Mouse
Speakers
CD/DVD Burner*

Please let me know if there is anything else I need. The fan comes with the motherboard right? Will I need some sort of external cooling also?


I have researched the priciest components so far (CPU, motherboard, video card). Please let me know what you think of my decisions and if you have recommendations. Is everything compatible with eachother? I'm trying to get the biggest bang for my buck. Based on my research, I have come to the conclusion that Intel > AMD at this current moment.


I haven't decided if I am going to overclock this (partly because I'm not sure how to). But let's just assume I will.

*Processor *- this is what I have researched the most so far and I am fairly confident in my choice - but let me know if you disagree.

*Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz 1333FSB 6MB L2*

[L=http://www.futurepowerpc.com/s...E=CPIN-RE8400&REFID=PW]http://www.futurepowerpc.com/scripts/product.asp?PRDCODE=CPIN-RE8400&REFID=PW[/L]

*Motherboard *- I'm not very knowledgeable with the specs for motherboards, I have narrowed it down to the eight motherboards you see below (based on the reviews at newegg).

[L=http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813188026]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188026[/L]
[L=http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131295]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131295[/L]
[L=http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128347]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128347[/L]
[L=http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131232]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131232[/L]
[L=http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131299]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299[/L]
[L=http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131344]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131344[/L]
[L=http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128359]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128359[/L]
[L=http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128358]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358[/L]

Keep in mind that I have not checked these motherboards on Pricewatch - so there may be a 5-10$ cheaper elsewhere.

As for CPU/Motherboard combos, I've looked for a good deal on one of those but what I am finding is that they offer a really great processor and a very crappy non-gaming motherboard.

*Video Card* - I have already purchased this one for 20$ (after rebate) and based on the reviews its pretty good for gaming - my reasoning was that since it is only 20$, worst case scenario is I will just get a better one later on incase this one isn't good enough.

*EVGA 256-P2-N761-TR GeForce 8600 GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card*

[L=http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130394]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130394[/L]



*RAM* - Haven't researched this much yet - is there a certain minimum amount of RAM I need to make it compatible with my motherboard and processor? I don't want the minimum amount though - I want a good amount to ensure it is a great gaming desktop. What is the typical amount of RAM to accomplish this?

*Hard Drive* - Haven't researched this much yet - is there a certain minimum amount of hard drive space I need to make it compatible with my motherboard and processor? I don't want the minimum amount though - I want a good amount to ensure it is a great gaming desktop. What is the typical amount of HD space to accomplish this?

*Monitor *- Haven't researched this much yet.

The rest of things like the keyboard and speakers I don't think is that big of a deal, that I can do on my own but the main components is what I need help with. 

Also - here a couple of combos from some users on Newegg. Haven't looked at these very carefully yet.


-EVGA 512-P3-N980-AR GeForce 9800 GT Hybrid 
-GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel
-Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 
-G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory 
-LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model
-Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor 
-Rosewill RCX-Z300 92mm Ball CPU Cooler
-RAIDMAX SMILODON ATX-612WBP Black 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case With 500W Power **this box was not the best choice**
-Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit 



1.This mobo Gigabyte EP45
2.Intel E8500 [email protected]/1644mhz FSB
3.GTX260(MSI)Oced 702/2406/1467 GPU(just 1)
4.DDR2 [email protected] 5-4-4-12 1:1 (gskill)2x2=4gb
5.X-Fi gamer's edition audio
6.(optional) Asus PhysiX card-takes load off GPU
7. 750watt 4x12v rail PS(Zalman)or better
8. Antec 300 or 900 (depending on your budget)case 
9. 22"lcd or bigger with 2ms 10000:1 (LG)or samsung
10. any of the THX Logitec speakers are good! Z series


Let me know if I forgot to mention anything. I would appreciate it if you would please let me know what you think, thanks a lot.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Have a look at this set up the P43 MB will run with the P45 to a point you need to add an OS and shop around for the PSU you could use the one listed or a Corsair 650Tx whichever you find the better price on.

Link	........................................................................................Discp.	Cost	Rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037 E8400	$164.99	
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128347 GA-EGP43 DS3L	$79.99	
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148212 4Gig	$57.99	$20.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130397 9800GT	$119.99	$20.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005 PPCS610	$94.99	$35.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073 500 Gig $64.99	
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119106 Case	$49.99	
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151173 DVD burner	$28.99	
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254005 19w Monitor	$129.99	

$791.91	$75.00

Total	$716.91


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Being new at this, deciding between all these components is pretty overwhelming. So I'm going to do it one step at a time. 

Processor - e8400 - this is baically set, I'm confident that this is a good choice. 

I have narrowed the motherboard down to three (although feel free to suggest something else). 

The ASUS p5q Pro 115$

The ASUS p5q-e 145$

GIGABYTE UD3P 117$

(Keep in the mind that I will receive a 20$ combo discount for the Pro and a 10$ discount for the UD3P when coupled with the 8400)

I chose the UD3P over the UD3R and UD3 because of this chart: 

Although that chart does confuse me. I know I need CrossFire for overclocking so I figured I'd go with the UD3P.


Can you guys give me feedback on which is the best from the three motherboards? Please let me know what your reason is for recommending also.

Is the p5q-e worth it for the 30$ price jump?

Is there any difference in the expansion slots? I see a difference in the p5qe.
I also see a difference in the max memory supported - p5q pro only supports 8GB while the other two support 16GB. But I only need 4GB of RAM right? Then this would be irrelevant.

Are there any other differences?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

First you don't need crossfire for overclocking crossfire or xfire is ATI's version of Nvidia's SLI where you link 2 video cards together for supposedly higher graphics. all it measns is that it has 2 PCIe x16 2.0 video card slots.
The P5Q E has better audio onboard then the Pro at least I think feel it does.
My favorite on the list is the Gigabyte and the UD3R and UD3P are excellent boards both have good sound and low failure rates.

I don't really worry about the max memory anything over 4 is unused.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Here is where I am at so far:

*CPU - e8400 WolfDale

Motherboard - GIGABYTE UD3R

Video Card - researching
*

I was going to shop for desktop components one at a time and although the video card is still my main priority, I am reading these NewEgg emails and there are promotional discounts that expire on the 18th, and some on the 21st. Based on what I have bought so far (CPU and motherboard) and what I am trying to accomplish, please let me know what you think of these discounts and if you recommend any product. 

Please don't get the idea that I am not researching or that I am being lazy - I am simply doing this because the promotions will expire before I get to researching the products. I realize this is a lot to ask all at once but if you could even just give feedback on one of the components I'll appreciate it. Also, feel free to suggest something that is not a promotion, I am not simply going to buy it because there is a discount, I still want to get the biggest bang for my buck.

I cannot link to the deal page because it's in my e-mail.

All the prices below are after promocode and rebate:


*Video Cards:
*

EVGA GeForce 9800 GT PCI Express 2.0 x16 512MB GDDR3 Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-DesktopGraphicsVideoCards-_-L5C-_-14130397

89.99

------------------

EVGA GeForce 9500 GT PCI Express 2.0 x16 512MB GDDR3 Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-DesktopGraphicsVideoCards-_-L4C-_-14130383

44.99

-------------

ASUS EAH4830/HTDP/512MD3 Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
640 Stream Processors ready

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-DesktopGraphicsVideoCards-_-L2C-_-14121289

94.99

------------


MSI GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express x16 320MB GDDR3 Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-DesktopGraphicsVideoCards-_-L8B-_-14127328

79.99

------------------------------

*Power Supply* - I need at least 600W right? How much of a performance increase will I saw if I do more than 600W?


Thermaltake Purepower W0121RU 600W ATX12V V2.0 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Power Supply - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...IGNEFL121508-_-PowerSupplies-_-L1B-_-17153077

44.99

-----------------

Corsair 750 Watt ATX12V/ EPS12V Active PFC Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...IGNEFL121508-_-PowerSupplies-_-L6C-_-17139006

89.99

------------------

OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS 600W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...IGNEFL121208-_-PowerSupplies-_-L1C-_-17341010

39.99

-----------------

Rosewill 630 Watt ATX12V v2.2 & EPS12V v2.91 Active PFC Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...IGNEFL121208-_-PowerSupplies-_-L4A-_-17182149

59.99

----------------

I definitely want to buy a power supply in the next couple days because there is a 20% sale right now for all PSUs in the following link: http://www.newegg.com/Store/Categor...8&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL121208-_-MECH-_-EB1A-_-PSU

Let me know which one you think is the best deal for me.


----------------------------



*Monitors : *

ASUS VW224U Black 22" 2ms(GTG) Widescreen LCD Monitor w/ HDCP Support 300 cd/m2 1000:1 (ASCR 5000:1) Built in Speakers - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...C-IGNEFL121208-_-LCDMonitors-_-L0A-_-24236050


159.99

-----------------

Acer X193W+BD Black 19" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 2000:1 (ACM) - Retail
High resolution 19” monitor

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...C-IGNEFL121508-_-LCDMonitors-_-L5B-_-24009127

129.99


------------------

SAMSUNG 2233bw High Glossy Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 20000:1(1000:1) - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-IGNEFL121508-_-LCDMonitors-_-L10C-_-24001306

179.99


Basically each monitor is 10$ off with the promo code. I haven't researched monitors heavily yet but I just wanted to know if these were good deals since they will expire soon.

--------------------------


*RAM*

- for memory I need the 4GB RAM correct? Most of the promotions are only for 2GB RAM so I will not bother posting them. 

G.SKILL PI Black 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...mc=EMC-IGNEFL121508-_-Memory-_-L3B-_-20231209

44.99

-----------------

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...IGNEFL121208-_-DesktopMemory-_-L0D-_-20231166

49.99


---------------


*Hard-Drives *- I have no idea why the prices vary so much when the memory space is the same. The 1TB and 400 GB HDs are the same price - why is that?


Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...L121208-_-InternalHardDrives-_-L0B-_-22148288

59.99

--------------

Seagate Momentus 5400.6 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s Notebook Hard Drive OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...EFL121208-_-LaptopHardDrives-_-L1D-_-22148371

99.99

--------------

Western Digital Elements Portable 400GB USB 2.0 External Hard Drive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...L121508-_-ExternalHardDrives-_-L8D-_-22136340

99.99

------------------

Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EACS 1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...MC-IGNEFL121508-_-HardDrives-_-L5D-_-22136151

99.99


--------------------


*DVD Burners* - I assume this includes CD drives inside them - right?


Lite-On IDE 22X DVD+/-R DVD Burner with LightScribe

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-IGNEFL121208-_-CDDVDBurners-_-L1B-_-27106269

24.99

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Sony NEC Optiarc IDE 20X DVD+/-R DVD Burner OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-IGNEFL121208-_-CDDVDBurners-_-L2D-_-27118011

19.99


-------------------

*Cases*

http://promotions.newegg.com/rosewi...mmc=EMC-IGNEFL121508-_-MECH-_-EB3A-_-Rosewill

There's a lot of cases there. The one on top looks cool.. I like the blue lights - but is it good for airflow?

Also, there are some case combo deals with CPUs here:

http://promotions.newegg.com/antec/...c=EMC-IGNEFL121508-_-MECH-_-EB3C-_-IntelAntec

The first two on that link are the ones that apply to me since I am buying the e8400 CPU.

-------------------------


Thanks a lot.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Alright – I’m done ordering everything (except the speakers). Let me know how I did!
Here is the final order:
*CPU*: e8400 WolfDale

*Motherboard*: GIGABYTE UD3R

*Video **Card*: ASUS Radeon HD 4830 (I decided to change this from the 9800 GT – some people say they are the same, some say the 4830 is slightly better, so I went with the 4830).

*RAM*: G.Skill 4GB(2x2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 1066

*Power **Supply*: OCZ StealthStream 600W

*Monitor*: SAMSUNG 2233bw High Glossy Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD 

*Hard **Drive*: Western Digital Caviar 500 GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0 GB

*DVD*: LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe

*Case*: Antec 900 (great case, the blue looks sweet!)

*Keyboard*: Saitek Black USB Wired Standard Eclipse (this has illuminated blue keys – matches the case!).

*Mouse*: Logitech MX518 – I already had this.

*OS*: Vista 64-bit - I got this for free from a student organization that I am in.

The total for all this (minus the last two which I already had) turned out to be 830$ after all promo codes, discounts, and rebates.

Did I spend my money well? What do you guys think? 

Thanks to everyone who has helped me – I’ve learned a lot! Now it’s time to build lol – this will not be fun.


Am I missing anything else? I don’t need a cooler unless I decide to overclock – right?
The only other thing I need that I can think of are speakers. Is there anything you guys recommend that isn’t too expensive? Here are the two that I was looking at:
Logitech X-240 25 Watts 2.1 Speaker – Retail
40.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121010

or

LOGISYS Computer SP6000-BK 32Watts 2.1 SOHO MULTIMEDIA SPEAKER SYSTEM
23.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836157002


I don’t know which one I should get. The Logitech one is great because it’s Logitech… plus the black speakers will match my case… but its 40.99 … on the other hand the other one has great reviews and is supposed to great for gaming but it’s some weird company called LOGISYS.. and the speakers look nice but they are more silver than black and they won’t match my case at all… but they’re only 23.99.

The crappy part is that either speaker will cost me an extra 15$ for shipping … all the stuff I’ve bought so far conveniently had free shipping. Not sure what to do – any other alternatives? Or maybe I should just stick with the monitor speakers? And then maybe just use a headset from the monitor speakers when I game? Or is that not a good idea?

Thanks!


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Monitor speakers are usually not that great, The Logitech are decent but I never heard the other ones.


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## ukiarskicker (Jun 9, 2008)

Overall good system. For the price, very good. I have built my own PC a month ago for under $1000. Under a grand because I could only buy from store. But yea. System is good. Video card very nice so games will be playing without any lags, and crisp picture too. Well done.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback.

I bought some other stuff on NewEgg today:

Mousepad: steelseries 63005SS QcK mini.

Speakers: Logitech X-240 25 Watts 2.1

Router: LINKSYS WRT54GL IEEE 802.3/3u, IEEE 802.11b/g Wireless-G Broadband

Games: Battlefield 2: Complete Collection and Counter Strike: Source

All I need now are headphones.

The above games are sort of old - I also want to buy a new game that will really challenge my system - but at the same time I want the game to be multiplayer and fun. I think Crysis is the only game that fits that criteria. Do you think my system would be able to handle Crysis? I don't know how to OC and stuff though.


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## ukiarskicker (Jun 9, 2008)

headphones, go to turtlebeach.com and find some REALLY good headphones. Expensive, but soooo worth it. Crysis can be played on XP, as my friend did, and the system specs should be handle it.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Wow I am really mad right now - I spent like 12 hours reading so many websites and manuals and stuff and I think I finally figured out where everything goes.. so I plug the power supply cord in to the wall and flip the switch and try to turn on the computer and what happens? nothing..


I think the PSU is defective or something... sometimes when I'm flipping the switch and I lean in real close I hear a slight hissing sound, not sure if its the PSU or the motherboard, but I'm guessing the PSU. 

I dont know if its just because I am new at this.. but I really think I plugged in everything where it belongs.. this really sucks


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Sart by doing this with 1 stick of ram, Video card . cpu, heat sink and fan, clear the CMOS and tyr to boot all your looking for is a Bios Screen. > http://www.techsupportforum.com/f255/how-to-bench-test-your-system-171424.html


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

I already tried doing one stick of individual RAM. Not sure what you mean by the rest. Do you mean take the power off of the video card? I tried that also. I'm just looking for the system to start running, not even the BIOS screen .. i havent even opened my monitor yet.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Follow the instructions in the link, set it up outside the case with the video card powered, 1 stick of ram, and the cpu with the heat sink and fan installed, no drives hooked up.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

I think I may have found the problem - as I was taking everything out of my case - when I unplugged the MAIN power supply wire that goes from my PSU to my mobo (the 20+4) wire... the 4 wire was fine .. and so was 19 out of the 20 holes on the wire of my PSU - but one hole was empty ... do you think this is the reason for the lack of power??

The missing pin is #10 (+12V) ... that sounds important.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

If it's pin 20(-5) it's not used any more Match up the colors with this>


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

EDIT : Nvm, I wasn't looking at the pin alignment close enough and I had it backwards, the missing pin is #17 - which is GND - so that should not matter right?


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Help! 

I made some progress.

Here is what I did.

I followed this guide exactly - http://www.pcmech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132409

and it didn't work - then I decided to follow the guide exactly AND plug the power switch from my case onto the MOBO - this lit up the mobo, i heard the fans spinning and everything was great! it stayed on for about 5 seconds, shut off, and then did it all over again a few seconds later.. it was a cycle. I'm not sure what this means but I think I have made some progress - what should I do from here?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Have you cleared the CMOS ?
What happens if you just touch the 2 pc on pins with a screwdriver instead of using the case switch wiring?


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

I tried doing the CMOS thing with a flathead screwdriver but it did not do anything. It was only when I put in the case power switch that the power started up.


I think the problem is something related with the CPU. I unplugged the PSU cables (CPU1 and CPU2) so that there is no power to the CPU and I also unplugged the CPU fan. I then turned on the computer and now the power stays on. I left it on for about 30 seconds on two separate occasions without any interruption in power. I did not leave it on for more than 30 seconds because I'm not sure if it is safe to do so without having power to the CPU and the CPU fan not being on. Is that safe? Does this mean that the problem is CPU-related?

Here is what the situation is:

I have the everything out of the case.. the mobo is on top of the box it came in .. I have the PSU connected to the mobo, I have the case power switch and the other front panel cords connected to the mobo, one of the case fans connected to the PSU.. the CPU is on the mobo with the heatsink installed. I also have one stick of RAM in there.

That's it.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Kenny536 said:


> I tried doing the CMOS thing with a flathead screwdriver but it did not do anything. It was only when I put in the case power switch that the power started up.
> 
> You clear the CMOS by moving the jumper from pins 2&3 to pins 1&2 then back does it have a jumper installed on the pins?
> 
> ...


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Oh. I thought clearing the CMOS meant just putting a flathead on the two pins. Doesn't that have the same affect as the jumper? It did not come with the jumper - although in the mobo manual it says that to clear the CMOS values, place a jumper cap on the two pins to temporarily short the two pins, or use a metal object to touch the pins for a few seconds. 

It does not say anything about pin # 3. There are only two pins. I see a set of three pins slightly to the left of the the two pins. But I still have no idea what you mean - please explain. 

And I'm not really sure what you mean by the last part either. I just tried putting the flathead on the front panel power switch with the case connector unplugged, but I did not get any power.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Kenny536 said:


> Oh. I thought clearing the CMOS meant just putting a flathead on the two pins. Doesn't that have the same affect as the jumper? It did not come with the jumper - although in the mobo manual it says that to clear the CMOS values, place a jumper cap on the two pins to temporarily short the two pins, or use a metal object to touch the pins for a few seconds.
> 
> It does not say anything about pin # 3. There are only two pins. I see a set of three pins slightly to the left of the the two pins. But I still have no idea what you mean - please explain.
> Your right I was thinking of a different board
> ...


On the front header short the two pins on the MB see the image


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Yes those two pins are the ones I plug the power switch case connector to the mobo... i unplugged the case power switch from the mobo and put the flathead on the two pins in the image.. nothing happened.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Hook up the motherboard speaker, power switch and pull the ram out press the power button see if it beeps at you.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

By mobo speaker do you mean the HDD Audio plug that is in my case? I plugged that into my mobo, took out the RAM, and pressed power. Same result.. turns on and off continuously.

It still may be power supply because every time the power turns off the PSU still makes that hissing sound.. i have the PSU separated from the mobo now so I know for sure that hissing sound is the PSU. Maybe it just does not have enough power to stay on? Although I'm unsure why it stays on continuously when I unplug the CPU power. Maybe because it is defective it does not have enough juice to continually power the CPU and mobo? This would explain why I had absolutely no power when I had everything connected like the hard drive and the DVD drive. The PSU couldn't handle it all. So maybe it is the PSU. I already ordered a new, different PSU from NewEgg (Corsair), they gave me free next day shipping so it is scheduled to be here Friday, but may probably get here on Monday because of the holidays. They are going to refund me on this OCZ.

But if it's not the PSU then what? I tell NewEgg that the mobo may be defected as well? If that doesn't fix it I call NewEgg again and say the CPU is defective?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The mother board speaker goes on the 2 pins on the front panel header next to the power switch pins see the diagram above.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Yes I see the pins.. however there is nothing to insert them with.. I believe the Antec 900 does not include a mobo speaker cable.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

What do mean nothing to insert?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

From the Antec 900 Manual> 
front panel connectors.
1. Connect the Reset switch (labeled RESET SW) to the motherboard at the RST
connector. Polarity (positive and negative) does not matter for switches.
2. Power Switch (labeled POWER SW) connects to the PWR connector on the
motherboard.
3. There is no Power LED in this case. Three illuminated case fans will turn on
when there is power to the computer.
4. Hard Drive LED (labeled H.D.D. LED) connects to the IDE connector. For
LEDs, colored wires are positive (+). White or black wires are negative (–). If
the LED does not light up when the system is powered on, try reversing the
connection. For more info on connecting LEDs to your motherboard, see your
motherboard manual.

The front panel wires are all separate and labeled you plug them on to the pins.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Yes I know that. I see that in my manual. #1 is the reset, #2 is the power switch, #3 is the power LED, #4 is the HD switch... so where is the speaker switch?

I don't think Antec 900 comes with a speaker cable - http://www.tacticalgamer.com/hardwa...81-antec-nine-hundred-mobo-speaker-cable.html


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The 900 does not come with a speaker it used to be the motherboard that came with a speaker but anymore it seems they don't
http://bestbyte.net/mm5/merchant.mv...de=CACP01SP1&Category_Code=CACP&Store_Code=BB


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Yeah - so it was the motherboard that was defected.

The new PSU came from newegg this afternoon - same result.

I drove to tigerdirect and bought a new motherboard, and now it's staying on! I'm glad that's over... hopefully I don't run into anymore problems. Thanks for your help.

I do have one more question though - the motherboard I bought from tiger direct was this one: Asus P5Q Green Motherboard - Intel P45, Socket 775, ATX, Audio, PCI Express 2.0, S/PDIF, Gigabit LAN, Firewire, USB 2.0, SATA, RAID

for 129.99 + 12$ tax... the P5Q-E was not in stock.

So my question is - is this motherboard fine? Because if it is not - what I could do is just use this one and tell Newegg to refund my defected motherboard and buy a new one from newegg and after it arrives in 2-3 days, I'll return this one to TigerDirect. Should I do that or this mobo fine? Here is the link to it.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3940037&CatId=3790

Thanks.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I think the biggest difference in the 2 is the onboard sound? If the sound, sounds good to you keep it, there is not a lot of differences in the P5Q series.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

I have another problem.

I hooked everything up and the computer runs fine - but the first thing I do is run BIOS right? I cannot get to it.

According to my mobo manual - I just power it up and hold DEL.

I don't know why I can't get to it, it can be for one of three reasons:

1. The USB function is not working on the motherboard - the keyboard I bought is an illuminated one, so it turns blue when it is powered, but when I plug it into the USB, it doesn't turn blue - when I plug it into my laptop, it works perfectly fine. However, on my new build, if I plug in the USB halfway, at just the right amount, then it will illuminate.

2. Am I setting up the monitor wrong? From what I understand, I do not plug in the analog cord right? Only the digital? The monitor seems fine, the light is on and on the top left corner it keeps saying "Digital" and then "Analog" and keeps cycling through like that.

I don't know if the problem is that I cannot access BIOS because of my keyboard.. OR that I actually AM entering BIOS but I cannot see it because I am doing something wrong with my monitor.

I have no idea how I access BIOS.. i tried holding down DEL but it did not work. I tried using a PS2 keyboard also (although I think it is broken because none of the lights turn on).


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Kenny536 said:


> I have another problem.
> 
> I hooked everything up and the computer runs fine -
> Are you saying it runs fine because the fans run?
> ...


Did you set this up outside the case or is the motherboard installed?
http://www.techsupportforum.com/f255/how-to-bench-test-your-system-171424.html


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Well initially I had set it up outside the case where I tested strictly the RAM, mobo, and cpu, and PSU, to see if it would work, and since the power stayed on this time, I figured everything would be fine. So I put everything inside my case and the power stays on but I am not seeing anything on the monitor.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Did you see anything when it was on the bench?


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

I didn't have the monitor hooked up when it was outside the case - should I do that? I figured that I wouldn't be able to access BIOS - but now that I think about it, I don't see why not.

It clearly says in my Mobo manual.. hold down DEL key to access BIOS... but the thing is that the keyboard is not working.. at least I don't think it is. 

As I said before, it will only light up if the USB cord is halfway in the USB Port.. but I don't believe that means it is working... I just went to wal-mart and bought a PS/2 keyboard.. I plugged that in and the keyboard still didnt light up.. however.. the PS/2 Keyboard lights (numlock, scrollock, etc.) stay on for a split second when I have the PS/2 plug HALF way in there.. just like the USB.. so whatever is wrong with the USB ports is also what is wrong with the PS/2 ports.

But I don't know if the USB/PS/2 ports are the problem... someone on another forum said "When your computer posts correctly, you will see text on your screen. It will tell you when to hold down the del key. "


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

That is what you were supposed to be checking on the bench test if you can't get into the Bios on the bench no sense in putting back in the case.
I even load windows, drivers and update it before installing in the case.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Just tried benching it.. still not seeing anything on the monitor.. also tried using a different video card.. EVGA 256-P2-N761-TR GeForce 8600 GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130394 


still the same result


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

It was the RAM - I replaced the RAM and now I am getting into the BIOS screen! Such a relief.

But of course, the problems do not end there. I figured since it was the RAM this whole time, I would go back to the old UD3R GIGABYTE motherboard.. so I did that and hooked it up to the the CPU, RAM, and video card. 

The problem now is that it will stay on the BIOS screen from anywhere from 2 minutes to 5 minutes... and then I lose all picture.

I'm pretty sure this is not the motherboard's fault, rather it is the video card's fault. I say this because of a couple reasons:

1. The rest of the power remains, fans still running, all lights still on - the only thing is that I lose picture.

2. When I touch the video card after only being on a little bit.. it is BURNING hot. 


So I figured maybe there's something wrong with the video card... I try the other one (EVGA 8600 GTS) and that one is staying on the BIOS screen.. but it is still VERY hot.

So I figured this either meant that it's supposed to be this hot.. or this motherboard is not very good at heating the video card... ( I initially had everything in the case where the case fans were also cooling the video card, but that didn't help I believe). 

So what do you think? Is it the mobo or the video card? Should I try the ASUS mobo?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Video cards will run around 60c idle but if it's shutting down then it is probably overheating.
Do you still have it on the bench?
Are you using the 8 pin cpu power instead of just the 4 pin?
You can swap over to the Asus board but I don't know of anything on the board that would cause the card to overheat.
Now that you can get into the Bios check the temps and voltages.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

I do still have everything on the bench - I am using the 8 pin cpu power - should I not be?

I did check the temps, the system temp was around 40C last night and the CPU temp was like 45C.. or the other way around I don't remember. How do I check the voltages? I couldn't find a way to check the video card temperature (if there is a way in BIOS).

After I installed the OS last night, I put the 4830 in for a little while and I didn't lose picture.. it is currently in the machine now also and I am not losing picture. I'm actually touching the video card now and although it's reasonably hot, it's not blazing hot like it was last night.. the hotness it is at now may be normal. So I don't know what was up with it last night but I'm going out for 2-3 hours now and I'm going to leave the machine on, and I will see if I lose picture when I come back.

But besides that, the OS is installed! Thanks to everyone that helped, I learned a lot! 
A couple more questions- I installed the OS and I changed settings in the BIOS so it is 64 bit and I put it in HTEP mode and also ACHI mode (I don't really know what all that means) - but anyways, the OS is installed, but I noticed that it is Windows Vista Business 64-bit. Does it really matter that it is Business? Should I exchange it? What's the difference?

My last question (I think) - I need to go out and buy a wireless adapter so I can have wireless internet ( I know wired is better but I'm going to try this)

This is the router I have - LINKSYS WRT54GL IEEE 802.3/3u, IEEE 802.11b/g Wireless-G Broadband Router - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190

What wireless adapter do you recommend for gaming? Should I cheap out and just buy one for 10-20$?

Thanks.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

For wirelwss Adapters this is the one I use mostly> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124139

With Vista Business you basicly loose just Media Center> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/wi...amateur-323532.htmlpare-editions/default.aspx

AHCI (Advanced Host Controller Interface) is the Faster Sata interface that's good.
HPET (High Precision Event Timer) 64bit is correct.

The voltages will be on the PC Health Status page right above the CPU temp.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks.

The wireless adapter you linked - I got the same one but I got the one without speedbooster because TigerDirect did not have that one available. 

I figured that I would just buy the one from the TigerDirect store near me right now, and then order the one you linked to off newegg, and then return the tigerdirect one. My question is though - is speedbooster worth it? I am using my new computer right now and it seems pretty fast, all but the last bar is green. 

The other thing is that I know that my router is not the speedbooster router. However, I read somewhere that I should get the speedbooster wireless adapter and then you can use third party firmware on your router to utilize the speedbooster on your adapter. So my questions are - Is this true? Do you do this? If so how? And lastly, do you think speedbooster would show a performance increase? 

Also, the media center link does not work.

Thanks.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

If it's close enough and operating at 54MPS it won't make any difference over the Net your good.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Hello.

The computer is running beautifully. CS:Source and BF2 run flawlessly ... video-wise.

I still have one thing which frustrates me. I did not build this computer so I can lag spike every 30 seconds. It's not the computer - the PC is fine. It's my wireless internet. 

Router: LINKSYS WRT54GL IEEE 802.3/3u, IEEE 802.11b/g Wireless-G Broadband Router

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190

Wireless Adapter: LINKSYS WMP54G IEEE 802.11b/g, PCI 2.2 and 2.3 32bit PCI2.2 Wireless-G Adapter Up to 54Mbps Data Rates WEP, WPA, CCX 2.0 - Retail 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124115


Yes, I know that wired is much much better for gaming, I am aware of that, but at this point that is not an option because my family hates wires.

Here is what I am going to try and I need some feedback.

I am going to install 3rd party firmware on my router (Tomato). I was deciding between Tomato and DD-WRT and I went with Tomato ... what is your opinion? 

Also, I have no idea how to do this but from what I understand, it increases performance. I am hoping this will eliminate the lag spikes. I know that if I am not careful, I can "brick" my router - so if you guys have any guides on how to do this, I'd appreciate it. I was just going to google for some guides.

Secondly, I am going to replace my wireless adapter with this one: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124139

It's basically the same one I have now, but with SpeedBooster. However, it clearly says on the box that the speedbooster mode is only available under Windows 2000 and XP. So should I not bother?
However, reading a few NewEgg reviews here : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ndorMark=&Page=1&Keywords=speedbooster&=0&=10

It looks like some people have hacked the firmware and enabled speedbooster, given that they have a speedbooster wireless adapter. What do you think of this? Will hacking the firmware and enabling speedbooster still work if I have vista 64-bit? \

Will doing all this even eliminate the lag spikes?

Thanks.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

First you need to make sure it is the router and not the modem or internet connection itself, to do this I would temporally run a Cat5E cable to Router first and then Directly to the modem to make sure it is the wireless that's causing it.
Other things to consider > Is yours the only device using the wireless a second pc or WII GB DS or any other PC will give you the service spikes as will a loaded cable node to the cable companies head end I could always tell when the High School let out here when I had cable by the speed drop every day after 2:30pm.

Use this site to test your speed while testing> http://www.speedtest.net/

Now about Tomato I tried to use it once and had lower but even speeds then with the stock firmware I did not play with it too much though, Another thought make sure you have the latest Linksys firmware on the router first before trying a third party one.

I you come to the conclusion that it is indeed the wireless connection that is the problem I would recommend you start a thread in the networking forum listing the Brands and Models of the Adapter, Router, Modem, and how they are connected and let one of the team members there have a look.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

I'm pretty sure it is the router based on my post - see if you can help me based on this - I'll also post it in the adapter section. Thanks.




I went to cmd and typed in "ping -t 192.168.1.1" 

and then it started pinging my router.

it showed this line.. one second at a time

"reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=<1ms TTL=64

occasionaly it would have a request timed out line (every 5-15 lines)

but the thing I noticed was that EXACTLY every 60 lines ... the time would jump from <1ms to around 600-1500 ms.. just for the one line. 

I'm guessing this is the spike problem that is pissing me off.

Based off google searches, I think problem is because of the incompatibility of the ralink rt2561 chipset for my adapter with Windows Vista 64-bit. It's actually a common problem.. called something like the vista 60 second lag spikes (1-3 second lag spikes every 60 seconds.

I say this because I have two other laptops. My laptop has XP. I tried this same cmd command on there... no major spikes...my dad's laptop is Windows Vista 64 bit (only difference is that his is home edition, the PC i just built has business edition) and that did not have any spikes as well. 

So that means the only variable that remains is the adapter.. and based off google searches I think it's because it is incompatible with Vista 64-bit (I guess the laptop adapter is not the same chipset).

My friend has this router: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166020

He has the same problem.. however, after downloading one of the ralink drivers from these forums:
http://www.vistax64.com/vista-networking-sharing/72358-vista-wireless-network-lag-spikes-2.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/235009-45-linksys-wmp54g-drivers

He was able to fix the spikes. He downloaded and installed the driver, and then ran a program called WLAN Optimizer.

http://www.martin-majowski.de/wlanoptimizer/

^ That is a fix for my exact problem.

However, I could not manage to install the rlink drivers. It kept saying unsuccessful or whatever when I clicked browse and specified the driver. It worked for him though, and he suggested that I get the same adapter as him.

What do you think?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Did you running the WLAN Optimizer with your current drivers?


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

With the Linksys drivers? Yes, I tried that first - also tried the Vista Anti - Lag ... neither of them worked. I think the XP drivers will work but the problem is I don't know how to get them on here.


The root problem for this I think is the WLAN Autoconfig, checking for new networks every 60 seconds. to disable this i go to run > services.msc, and scroll down to WLAN Autoconfig and disable it.. but the problem is that when I disable it, I can't detect my network so I can't connect.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

This Autoconfig is only in Vista so what I need to do is install XP drivers for this adapter. The problem is that linksys does not have 64 bit drivers for XP so I have to use ralink or some other driver. 


I do not get any error code - the error I get when trying to install any of the Ralink Drivers is this : 


Windows was unable to install your network controller 

Windows could not find driver software for your device 

If you know the manufacturer of your device, you can visit its website and check the support section for driver software.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I don't think the ralink drivers will work with the adapter. 
Did you post on the networking forum(Haven't had a chance to look today) they may have a better idea.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Yeah, I did.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

I fixed it!!! Not exactly sure how - but the important thing is that it is fixed :}. My little brother has been gaming for hours without a lag spike!

I did several things - I'm not sure what fixed it - here is what I did :

1. Installed 3rd party firmware on my router (Tomato).
2. Enabled Frame Burst and AutoBurner in the Tomato settings.
3. Replaced my Linksys adapter with a SpeedBooster adapter (same adapter, just with speedbooster).

That's it. No Ralink drivers, no anti-lag software, or anything, just used the drivers from the linksys CD. I don't know what it was, it says on the box speedboster only works with XP and 2000.. but I heard people saying they utilized their non-speedbooster router to work with their speedbooster adapter via 3rd party firmware. Maybe that's what I did (I know afterburner enables speedbooster). But I don't see how that would fix it anyway.. whatever, who cares! I'm getting excellent/very good signal with great latency!

Thanks for the help.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

That is indeed good to hear.


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Hello all.

The PC is running great - but I have this error. My videocard has this error. My ASUS video card came with a software called "ASUS SmartDoctor" - I think it just monitors my video card and allows me to overclock and adjust other settings. I haven't messed with any of it.

But the other day, I get this error from SmartDoctor:

VGA's voltage is out of safe bound. Motherboard doesn't supply reliable 12.0 voltage. Contact with its manufacturer for help.

What does this mean and how do I fix it? Is my video card overheating? I am not familiar with overclocking.

Thanks.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Check the voltages in the Bios 12v, 5v, 3.3v on the PC health page or similar, It's telling you the 12v rail is low.
What Video Card, and Power Supply do you have?


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## Kenny536 (Dec 14, 2008)

Okay, I think the problem is that the program is not reading my voltage accurately. I downloaded SensorViews Pro 3.2 and the +12V is stable at around 11.6V - so I don't believe there is any problem. 

My PSU is a CORSAIR 650W. Video card is the ASUS AMD Radeon 4830.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Yes there's a problem below 11.7v we've seen video card issues.
The 650tx is the correct psu for the card but it seems to be a defect, I would test with a voltmeter first but you should contact the retailer or Corsair fro a replacement.


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