# Upgrading PC - Need advice and estimation.



## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

I wasn't too sure where to post this -but considering I'm updating in order to play games, I figured I'd post it here.

I've got quite old machine...


Motherboard: Asus P4C800
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 (3 GHz)
Video Card: X1650 Sapphire (512 MB)
RAM: PC3200U DDR200
Audio: Creative Labs SB0240 Audigy 2 Platinum 6.1

I want to update to a motherboard that allows 3 way SLI, and get one or two 9800s in SLI. I also want to be able to have surround sound - and a decent quad core PC.

I'm looking for a 3GHz (or higher) quad Core.

Anyone know of anything I can add to my machine to make it better? I'm aware I need to go PCI-E, so that involves throwing away the motherboard and the CPU, and probably the RAM too. 

Any tips would be lovely.


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## manic (Aug 2, 2005)

A rock solid power supply. Not a cheapy, I would be looking for 
a 700watt plus. Corsair, ocz, antec, there are others. You didnt list
the power supply you are running now, it may be ok, post specs..


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

manic said:


> A rock solid power supply. Not a cheapy, I would be looking for
> a 700watt plus. Corsair, ocz, antec, there are others. You didnt list
> the power supply you are running now, it may be ok, post specs..



I've got Belarc Advisor, and Sandra-Lite. Is there any way to tell my current power supply using these tools? It's a pain to have to open up the case.


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

I'd go for a 1000 watt or higher PSU if you want 3 way SLI


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## lazareth1 (Jan 10, 2005)

Before you go with the 9800gtx take a look at the new 200 series from nvidia. the GTX260 is twice as fast as the 9800GTX in high resolution gaming and its only a little bit dearer.


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

lazareth1 said:


> Before you go with the 9800gtx take a look at the new 200 series from nvidia. the GTX260 is twice as fast as the 9800GTX in high resolution gaming and its only a little bit dearer.


Ah! Cheers for that. I'll bare that in mind.

Does anyone know of a motherboard that supports 3 way (or 2 way) SLI?

Does the GTX260 support SLI?


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## manic (Aug 2, 2005)

From what ive read it does not support sli yet, but the drivers are
being written for it, it will happen very soon if not now. Go to 
toms hardware and read the review of both of the new cards. Im not
to impressed with them for that kind of money. Your money may be
better spent on a 9800gx2, imho...


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

the 780i series motherboards supports 3 way sli
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=780i+motherboards&spell=1


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

I also agree with manic the 9800gx2 is faster than the 280 
correct me if I'm wrong


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

Mcninjaguy said:


> I also agree with manic the 9800gx2 is faster than the 280
> correct me if I'm wrong



Does the 9800GX2 require one PCI-E slot, or two?



> the 780i series motherboards supports 3 way sli
> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa...boards&spell=1


Thank you very much. I'll keep that in mind. I'll assuming it's purchasable from sites such as NewEgg?

EDIT: 
Yes, they are sold there - two PCI-E2 slots, and one PCI-E 16x slots - I guess that means it supports 3 way SLI, right?

I'm now looking for a 3GHz LGA 775 Quad Core - are there any available?

Budget is not an issue - I will be earning soon, and I'll be raking in about £800 a month, if all goes well.


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## patriothntr (May 29, 2008)

The 9800gx2 requires only one slot...but it does need to have SLI enabled to use both cores, games that do not enable it as well will have better performance with the gtx series cards. It is possible to put two 9800gx2 in for quad SLI, but if you read the writeup at Toms hardware about their $4000 build, they find the drivers are lacking for it. 

To get a 3ghz stock chip, you need to look at intel's extreme lineup...or you could take a q9450 and plan to OC it to 3.2ghz or so. 

If you give a budget, I can probably get a fairly complete list together for you...though I won't have exact prices...as I'll be sourcing from US sites and converting to pounds.


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## manic (Aug 2, 2005)

You can pack three of these cards on one board. That would be like
6 gpu's, because there are 2 gpu's per card. On a sli ready
board. It uses one pci-e slot, but will cover the one underneath it.
Not sure if you could really get all of the potential out of 3 cards that
way, but if nvidia ever works the bugs out it would have to be a
screamer. And there would be no need for a heater in the winter time,
:laugh:


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## patriothntr (May 29, 2008)

Right now the 3 way SLI works better than 4 way...so think about lookin at the 8800gtx cards if for some reason you want to blow that much cash...


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

My budget will be around £1600 ($2200) to custom build. I will reuse as many components from my current PC as possible - hopefully including my 5:1 surround sound card. 
I am aware I will need new:
Cooling - I was thinking watercooling, as it is the most effective.
Motherboard - Already decided on it. NForce 780i for £125
RAM - DDR2 800 MHz is the requirement. I was thinking two gigs to start with.
Graphics - 9800 or better, I might start with one card, and then update to two at a later date.
CPU - Undecided. Needs to be LGA775, and I'd like to get my hands on a 3 GHz Quad Core.
Power Supply - 1000Watts, probably, is the best option.

I'm looking for the best I can. Budget won't be an issue - it just means it'll be a little longer before I can afford my PC. I want to have something to aim for, first, before I worry about how long it'll take to earn the money. I could always make sacrifices - EG, 8800GTX, instead of 9800, as long as the PC has update potential (High enough power supply, decent amount of RAM slots, PCIE graphics slots, etcetera).


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## lazareth1 (Jan 10, 2005)

manic said:


> You can pack three of these cards on one board. That would be like
> 6 gpu's, because there are 2 gpu's per card. On a sli ready
> board. It uses one pci-e slot, but will cover the one underneath it.
> Not sure if you could really get all of the potential out of 3 cards that
> ...


The 9800GTX can only have 2 cards in SLI so only max of 4 cores. 

I know the HTX280 is a POS compared to the 9800GTX and the money there asking for it, but read toms hardware review again and the GTX260 is definetly the better choice for your money. Hence why i got one :smile: 

So I would say go with 260 instead of 9800GTX BUT if you want more power (bout 15-20%) then go for 9800GX2.


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## manic (Aug 2, 2005)

The qx9450 2.66ghz is a good choice. For the money. Should ramp
up to 3.ghz no problem..


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

> The 9 is a POS compared to the 9800GTX and the money there asking for it, but r800GTX can only have 2 cards in SLI so only max of 4 cores.
> 
> I know the HTX280ead toms hardware review again and the GTX260 is definetly the better choice for your money. Hence why i got one
> 
> So I would say go with 260 instead of 9800GTX BUT if you want more power (bout 15-20%) then go for 9800GX2.


I'm hoping to use it as my gaming rig - so does that mean I should go for the 9800GX2, as it gives off more power?


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## lazareth1 (Jan 10, 2005)

unc0nscious said:


> I'm hoping to use it as my gaming rig - so does that mean I should go for the 9800GX2, as it gives off more power?


Well yeah you get that much performance. Defenitly get it over the new 280. The 280 might improve with new drivers but shouldn't be that much. Bear in mind that the 9800GX2 is a dual card so it uses more power. 

9800GX2 = Best performer out there. Uses SLI so games have to be optimised to take advantage of it with drivers. (which almost all are anyway. Only 1 game on tom's hardware review didn't like the 9800GX2 SLI) 

GTX260 = Best value for money. Although slower than the top performer, it provides excellent FPS at high resolutions (ALmost TWICE as much!) due to more memory and memory bandwidth (compared to the almost equally priced 9800GTX) 

I know I know, its a minefield out there cause of the crazy marketing ploy by NVIDIA and it's 9000 series. I just built mines and I was gonna go for the 9800GTX but the 260 JUST came out in time so I went for it! 

Honestly, click link below and read the review. It willhelp you out. :grin:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-gtx-280,1953.html


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## patriothntr (May 29, 2008)

Another advantage of the 260 is it's low power consumption at idle...which makes it a little more appealing for me given the price of power and all...

You also want to be looking at DDR2 1066 memory for a boost in performance, and more options for ratios for OCing.


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## HawMan (May 12, 2006)

9800GX2 vs GTX280
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3GHyE9xJZJE


The 280GTX looks insane.


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

> DDR2 1066


Trouble is - it seems to be more expensive that the 800 MHz one, and It'd be incompatible with my choice of motherboard. Considering my choice of motherboard supports up to 8 GB RAM, I think I'll stick with it.

Okay. Killer question. GTX 280, or 9800GX2? I'm steering towards the 9800GX2 - It's cheaper, and it has more or less the same performance.


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## HawMan (May 12, 2006)

DDR 800 Is enough for todays games.

As for the GPU, Personally i would get the 280GTX.


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## manic (Aug 2, 2005)

Imho I think the 280 is overpriced for what your getting performance
wise. I would go for the 9800gx2. I would buy the 260 over the 280.


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

> DDR2 1066


Trouble is - it seems to be more expensive that the 800 MHz one, and It'd be incompatible with my choice of motherboard. Considering my choice of motherboard supports up to 8 GB RAM, I think I'll stick with it.
Hmm.. GTX 280, or 9800GX2? I'm steering towards the 9800GX2 - It's cheaper, and it has more or less the same performance. Yeah, I think I'll go with that.


Will all of this be compatible?

Creative Labs SB0240 Audigy 2 Platinum 6.1
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
EVGA nForce 780i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard
EVGA 9800GX2
Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) 

What should I do for cooling this beast of a machine?
Can anyone link me to a compatible power supply?

Thanks!


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## patriothntr (May 29, 2008)

Huh...guess you're looking at evga then?


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## HawMan (May 12, 2006)

Looks good, You can either use Air cooling or Watercooling.


As for PSU - Look at PC Power and cooling, Thermaltake Toughpower, Seasonic.


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## patriothntr (May 29, 2008)

heh, posted same time...my question would have made more sense before yours...

Might as well add corsair to that list...PC Power and corsair both made by seasonic. 

Low end look at AC freezer pro...works nice and only ~$30 US


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

I'm going to go for watercooling, I think. Is there any specifications I need to be careful with, with the cooling? Or will anything be compatible?

Same question but with a power supply.


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## manic (Aug 2, 2005)

Be prepared for some case mods. You better think it out real well,
and then plan on case mods. lol The water cooling systems Ive seen
have the cooling block "big chunk of copper with a fan" mounted 
inside of the case. Does not make alot of since to me, all the hot 
air inside of case keeping the cooling block nice and toasty. The one
I did we modded the case again and mounted it outside. Was one 
big pain right after the other. It wasnt a cheap system either, like
250 bucks, maybe thats cheap. I will never go there again. The 
friend I helped eventually went back to air cooling after the mold
in the lines clogged his impeller on the pump. Yes he was using the
magic liquid. I had read later that you should use automotive anti
freeze, it does not mold.
So when you make the switch make sure to save your heatsink on
the video card, that might be a chore with the dual core video cards.
Good luck. Maybe someone knows of a pain free style of water cooling.
btw, my friend never did get super low temps from it, I was not 
impressed.
I putting this psu on my next job..
OCZ ModXStream OCZ900MXS


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

I've seen a lot of the rads have an optional kit to mount on the outside of the case, makes a lot more sense that way.


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## patriothntr (May 29, 2008)

Unless you are going for some high OCing, I wouldn't mess with water for now...you can always switch later if you like. 

What case have you decided on? Some cases are better set up for WC, and that should influence your choice. 

Look at the kits from Swiftech for something simple...but expect to add lots of parts for the VGA if you plan on doing it...also be ready to add cooling for NB and a couple fans for the rest of the board/components.


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## lazareth1 (Jan 10, 2005)

Yeah I agree. Go with water if your OCing like me :smile: Otherwise stay away from it. Just incase your interested take a look at this all in one case: 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/3DMercury

Now it doesn't do as well as a custom built watercooling system but it makes a great amatuer kit for first time watercoolers and it does better thean air cooling.


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

Hm. So water-cooling is a hassle to use?

I have a case - it's quite a thick metal one, and it's rather large. I don't know how I'd do about modifying it, without buying something like a blowtorch to cut open the sides - it's really thick.

I think I might stick with air-cooling -there should be no need to overclock, other than maybe getting the CPU to 3 GHz.


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## lazareth1 (Jan 10, 2005)

Yeah watercooling can a bit off a hassle but some people find it fun. Kinda like playing with Linux :smile:. In regards to your case, you could mod it in the future without a blow torch but use a drill with drill bits designed for metal.


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## Walter Odim (Jun 29, 2008)

lazareth1 said:


> Yeah watercooling can a bit off a hassle but some people find it fun. Kinda like playing with Linux :smile:. In regards to your case, you could mod it in the future without a blow torch but use a drill with drill bits designed for metal.


Hm. I think I'll go with a good fan - much less hassle.

What's the best non-watercooling I can get for my PC?


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## manic (Aug 2, 2005)

Imo, you cant go wrong with the zalman solutions. They put out
a very good product.......


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## lazareth1 (Jan 10, 2005)

manic said:


> Imo, you cant go wrong with the zalman solutions. They put out
> a very good product.......


Agreed.


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## patriothntr (May 29, 2008)

Zalman makes some nice stuff...but I find it pricey for what you get....

http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm

If you have the space I like 2 and 3 on that list (there is a zalman a lil lower down...)


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