# Which would be the best certification to start out with?



## jonquilmcd

I was going to go for an A+ because that seems to be what most IT professionals recommend one start out with, but I noticed when looking in job postings that most employers were asking for Microsoft certifications and not CompTIA certifications. After noticing how much the MCSE seems to be more bang for your buck I am considering going for that first instead. I'm currently in college for Information Technology, have a work background in technical support and PC repair, and this will be my first certification. Which one would you recommend to me, and why?


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## PhoenyxRising

Im not entirely sure lolz, Im usually the one that says go a+ :grin: But to be honest they way it works where i am, i cant study for the MCSE unless i have done my A+ AND a network certification.


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## jonquilmcd

I wasn't even aware that it was like that in different areas. Here you just take 7 exams to get it, no prerequisites.


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## DT Roberts

Go for A+. Good way to get your foot in the door.


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## PhoenyxRising

ShIzNiT1707 said:


> Go for A+. Good way to get your foot in the door.


I agree with ShIzNiT1707, It all starts there and you can then go different routes from there. It's true, for me to get my MCSE I need the compTia and i need i think they call it N+ (networking +) I have the study material here, but from there your work for the MCSE is a lot less as well. 

The A+ teaches you the basics, and everything you go for after that adds on to it.


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## DT Roberts

Different places have different requirements for further and more advanced certifications. Where I am, there are no "prerequisites" - took two tests and I'm certified as an IT tech.


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## Madcatz

To be honest, theres a huge difference between A+ and MCSE certifications, requirements, and jobs you get for them. 

A+ is for computer repair, best buy and any other repair shops will want an A+. Some places don't require any experience to be hired.

MCSE is networking, way more advanced than A+, and most places want IT experience to get hired. Also most MCSE's won't even be dealing with PC's anymore except to maybe setup a new user or add the computer to the domain. You'll be doing server repair, active directory, DNS, DHCP, IIS, exchange, SQL, and a whole lot more. Hence why there is a huge pay jump between A+ and MCSE.

If you want an MCSE, get the A+ so you can prove that you know computer basics and have a very good idea whats what when you open up a server box. Take a network+ class at least, go for the cert if you want. That teaches you things you won't learn in MCSE, the physical network portion, things you need to know being a MCSE. Network topologies, network layers, cables, wireless types, and of course the range of wired and wireless networks and interferance.

I'd also suggest to look at other network certs, not just the MCSE. Make sure you want to do what your getting into. MCSE is just dealing with microsoft and servers running microsoft, theres also CCNA and CCNE for cisco, working with routers and switches instead of servers mainly.


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## jonquilmcd

See, I looked over the A+ and that's what it looked like to me... all basic repair type stuff. Stuff that I wouldn't have survived my previous jobs without knowing. Can't work experience and education count as something when someone has the absence of such a basic certification and the presence of a more advanced certification such as the MCSE? I.E. wouldn't my work experience and education prove by themselves that I know computer basics, or does the A+ really help solidify that?

My first cert is by no means an end for me but a beginning as I am well aware.  I have noticed in my research alone how employers are wanting a varied array of certifications. Personally I had planned on getting a lot more than one anyways just because I enjoy the learning process. 

BTW, doesn't the Network+ mostly deal with topologies, network layers, cables, etc.? Does the A+ go in to it as well, and if so, does it go as in depth as the Network+ does? (I'm guessing if it does go in to it it doesn't go as in to depth as the Network+)


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## Madcatz

Madcatz said:


> Take a network+ class at least, go for the cert if you want. That teaches you things you won't learn in MCSE, the physical network portion, things you need to know being a MCSE. Network topologies, network layers, cables, wireless types, and of course the range of wired and wireless networks and interferance.


Yep, network+ deals with the physical network side, and is very in depth. A+ doesn't even scratch networking other than maybe having you point out what a NIC port looks like, lol.

If you already have job experience doing PC repair, don't waste time or money on the A+, if you didn't have a job already, then the A+ is helpfull, mostly to get a repair job to get experience. Going for MCSE jobs, they'd rather see the experience over an A+ cert any day of the week.


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## DT Roberts

Madcatz said:


> Yep, network+ deals with the physical network side, and is very in depth. A+ doesn't even scratch networking other than maybe having you point out what a NIC port looks like, lol.
> 
> If you already have job experience doing PC repair, don't waste time or money on the A+, if you didn't have a job already, then the A+ is helpfull, mostly to get a repair job to get experience. Going for MCSE jobs, they'd rather see the experience over an A+ cert any day of the week.


On the contrary...

The A+ course that I took at my high school went pretty in depth with networking - drawing out schematics, setting up fake scenarios, etc. The test itself does not require that, no, but a course that you take for it may include good information.


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## jonquilmcd

ShIzNiT1707 said:


> On the contrary...
> 
> The A+ course that I took at my high school went pretty in depth with networking - drawing out schematics, setting up fake scenarios, etc. The test itself does not require that, no, but a course that you take for it may include good information.


I'm already going to school though for Information Technology with a focus in Networking, so it would be kind of redundant for me to just take the course for its educational value. I do want to get a Network+ in the future though because it will compliment my degree very well. Right now though I have my foot in the door when it comes to basic technical support and repair in employment. I'm just trying to take the next step, such as obtaining a help desk position (which requires Microsoft certification that can be easily obtained while working towards an MCSE).


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## jonquilmcd

Ok, so this is the way the plan looks right now: Start with the MCITP. This will earn me an MCTS while I'm going through the exams. Next the MCSA. Finally the MCSE. I'm thinking about adding some CompTIA certifications in between there so that I don't end up with nothing but MS certifications at the end (and I'm pretty sure one MS certification plus a CompTIA certification will look better than several MS certifications because it's more well rounded... right?).


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## DT Roberts

jonquilmcd said:


> Ok, so this is the way the plan looks right now: Start with the MCITP. This will earn me an MCTS while I'm going through the exams. Next the MCSA. Finally the MCSE. I'm thinking about adding some CompTIA certifications in between there so that I don't end up with nothing but MS certifications at the end (and I'm pretty sure one MS certification plus a CompTIA certification will look better than several MS certifications because it's more well rounded... right?).


Sounds like a plan. Similar to what I'm doing myself. I'll (hopefully) have all of my A+ certifications done by the end of this year, then pick up Microsoft once I get into college.

Sounds like it can work. Wish you the best.


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## jonquilmcd

In college (at least this is the way it's played out for me so far) they're a lot more generalized and focus more on the way everything works than focusing on anything specific (like Windows). Had I realized how well some of the CompTIA certs like Network+ would play along with my classes I would have just studied for a cert at the same time I was taking a corresponding class so I don't end up studying the same stuff twice. Then I would just work on my MS certs while working on classes that aren't IT related (general ed). 

I kind of went in to this whole degree thing thinking that was all I was going to need... then I learned about certifications but didn't look in to them deep enough to discover that some of them corresponded perfectly with certain classes in my schedule. Now it's so late in the game I might as well go ahead and work on the MS certs some then go back and work on some CompTIA certs just to refresh my memory if anything else.

It's great to hear you have a better plan starting out than I did.


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## greenbrucelee

jonquilmcd said:


> I wasn't even aware that it was like that in different areas. Here you just take 7 exams to get it, no prerequisites.


apart from that you should have 12-18 months experience supporting a 250+ user multi server environment and network design. This is what Microsoft recommend and being over certified for your experience level can do more harm than good.


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## ynell

Network+ is a good place to start for networking.. but it's pretty general. I took a networking class in my junior year of high school and at the end of the school year we all took the network+ and like 95% of the kids passed it. 

It's been three years sense then and now I'm taking college classes for computer networking and I'm doing tech support at a local ISP.. and nobody else doing tech support could pass network+ right now i'm making 12$/hr and i've only been here for about a month... needless to say its boring here, but sense i have the net+ it makes me eligible to get a quick promotion to a salary job

so... ..... ....... not sure what i was trying to say.


but there you go


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## cmcit

Greetings Guys,

Can some1 advise me what to choose from these 2: 
-MCITP server administrator
-MCITP enterprise administrator

The enterprise administrator is double the price and double the course material, but the question is it useful in the IT world ? would they appreciate it ?


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## flipgeek

MCITP is definitely useful in the IT world since most are moving to Server 2008.

According to MS, MCITP Server Administrator validates your ability to handle day-to-day management of the server operating system and MCITP Enterprise Administrator validates your ability to design Windows Server infrastructures. So it depends on which you think you want to be in, administering the OS or designing infrastructures.


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## cmcit

10x dude


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## Matt56

Anyone looking to do A+, network+ or any other compTIA cert can do a sample test sheet here to kinda see how you stand knowledge wise. I took the A+ and only got about 2 of 10 wrong on each test and I have 0 computer training. Then did the network+ and got like only like 3 of 10 right, ha ha . Their pretty fun tests to take.

http://www.comptia.org/certifications/testprep.aspx


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## DT Roberts

Thanks for the link. And yes; A+ is the easiest (in my opinion). I'm currently studying Network+ myself.


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## Blade_Jones

I don't work for anyone but myself. I took the A + course, I read PC Disaster and Recovery by Kate J. Chase, and I read the MCDST course. Then I studied up (online) on how to do the basic things that customers want done SUCH AS 1) How to clone a drive using XXClone, 2) How to backup and migrate or recover Outlook Express, Thunderbird, and Outlook emails, 3) How to backup and migrate or recover Internet Explorer and Firefox user data (such as passwords), 4) How to recover data off drives with software damage, 5) How to migrate data without the transfer getting halted (due to permissions, etc).


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## linabritney

Greetings All,

What are the best simulations exams for the 640-802 ?

I took the ccna 640-802 exam and received a 785 and needed a 825 to pass (44 questions). I prepared for this exam by making a lab with two 2650 routers and two 2950 switches. I read several books and completed both the Boson and Transcender practice exams with almost 100% correct on all the prep tests the first time around.

The problem is that the actual exam questions are far more complex then what the Boson and Transcender offered even though these exams are geared for the new CCNA exam.

Is there a better exam prep option? Iam going to purchase certmagic.com 640-802 as i heared great reviews about them. Anyone tried them? Let me know plz


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## greenbrucelee

I am not sure but www.Boson.com do the best practice exams I have seen. There two main writers used to work for Transcender.

certmagic is abraindump provider i.e the real exam questions please do not use it as you can risk being decertified for life, face legal action if caught and stopped from taking any IT certifications again and if you work in IT companies like CISCO and MS have started informing employers of suspected or found to be cheats.

Learn the material properly and you have nothing to worry about.


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## JEarl

Check it out though:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcsa.aspx#tab2

If you have the A+ and Network+ certifications, you have already completed the elective exam for the MCSA. I believe it is the same for the MCSE:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcse.aspx#tab2


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## greenbrucelee

JEarl said:


> Check it out though:
> http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcsa.aspx#tab2
> 
> If you have the A+ and Network+ certifications, you have already completed the elective exam for the MCSA. I believe it is the same for the MCSE:
> http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcse.aspx#tab2


yes the A+ and N+ count towards the elctive for the MCSA but not the MCSE and you shouldn't be going for either unless you have the relevant work experience. i.e 6-12 months as a network administrator for the MCSA and 12-18 months experience as systems engineer for the MCSE.

Apart from A+,N+,MCDST and MCTIP all other certs are designed to show your experience level. i.e what you have previously or currently do as a job not that you can pass some exams. Having certs beyond your experience level can harm your employment prospects.


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## JEarl

greenbrucelee said:


> yes the A+ and N+ count towards the elctive for the MCSA but not the MCSE and you shouldn't be going for either unless you have the relevant work experience. i.e 6-12 months as a network administrator for the MCSA and 12-18 months experience as systems engineer for the MCSE.
> 
> Apart from A+,N+,MCDST and MCTIP all other certs are designed to show your experience level. i.e what you have previously or currently do as a job not that you can pass some exams. Having certs beyond your experience level can harm your employment prospects.


I can see how having certifications beyond experience level can harm employment opportunities, but it would be difficult even getting to be a network administrator and get experience without the certification/education? Unless you're able to go in as an assistant.
If you have the certification and a degree, for example, and IT support experience, it seems someone would be a good candidate for that.

I'm just saying, you gotta start somewhere. So where do you get experience as a network administrator without working as a network administrator?


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## greenbrucelee

not many people start as a network admin.

No network manager in their right mind would employ someone with lots of qualifications and certification but no experience.

Imagine you had a ferrari and you were a top race driver with loads of experience, would you let some 17 year old who has just passed their test take your car for a drive?

I wouldn't and no network manager is gonna let someone with the theory but no experience run or support their network.

Most people start in a support role and progress into networking and you usually get bits of exposure a piece at a time untill the network manager/ IT director believes you are ready to rock.


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## JEarl

I see what you mean, I wouldn't hire myself as a network admin at this point in time. It doesn't hurt getting your certifications as soon as possible though, as long as you know the info. As far as working as a system admin, I do agree with you. I guess the answer to my question is here: 
"Most people start in a support role and progress into networking and you usually get bits of exposure a piece at a time untill the network manager/ IT director believes you are ready to rock."
Would you recommend just looking for a job in the IT dept of a company and working yourself up?


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## greenbrucelee

yes I would recommend this. I have only ever met one person in IT who started out in a networking job and I know a lot of IT people. Most of the others started in call center then worked their way up, some started as field service engineers then moved up, some got a job within a small company where they did a bit of eveyrthing and when a better opportunity came a long they went into networking positions.


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## Mike_V

Thanks for posting this I was wondering the same thing! I have been looking into Cisco Authorized Training as well though Infinit (http://www.infinit-tech.com/Cisco-Authorized-Training.php), any suggestions on the best place to start with those?


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## greenbrucelee

you shouldn't go for the CCNA. The CCNA is for people who actually worth with CISCO kit in their job.

You could however look at compTIA Network+ and CCENT which is like the entry level version of the CCNA.


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## greenbrucelee

techwork said:


> In my opinion you must first get an A+ cert and then try for the MCSE. Even though there is a difference between the two, they would increase you chances for getting your foot in the door.


I wouldn't.

THe MCSE requires that you have 12-18 months experience as a systems engineer. This is the same thing as I said above, being over cetified for you experience leve can go against you when applying for jobs.

If you ever see an entry level job or trainne job saying you must have the MCSE to apply that is the fault of the HR department not knowing what they are talking about and in your cover letter to the company you should say something like.

"I don't hold the MCSE certification because the rquirements for the MCSE state that I should have atleast 12 months experience as a system engineer and the position I am applying for within your company does not meet the requirements of someone who is MCSE certified".


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## stephenjones007

For me, I have a lot of repair experience and was close to complete an Associate degree in computer science. After a while, I went to school for A+ but nothing there was new to me. So, if you got the knowledge and experience its no use going to school for A+. I am not sure but I think you can just sign up, pay and write the exam and become certified. This is my experience.


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## greenbrucelee

stephenjones007 said:


> For me, I have a lot of repair experience and was close to complete an Associate degree in computer science. After a while, I went to school for A+ but nothing there was new to me. So, if you got the knowledge and experience its no use going to school for A+. I am not sure but I think you can just sign up, pay and write the exam and become certified. This is my experience.


Yes you can. You do not need to go to classes or pay some far out fee for online training when you can get the books, study and practicce yourself and when you feel you are ready book the exams and pass.

THe IT certifications I have were all done this way, I would recommend it for 4 reasons.

1. you can get the best materials and not get some out of date or crap material from a teacher or training company.

2. You can take your time or go as fast as you want.

3. it is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying for classes or training provider were they only charge for the course and not the exams.

4. you won't rip yourself off but there is no guarantee that a TP won't.

Take a look at Advent in the UK, one of the top training poviders for IT certs. They are now bust with many students still having to pay back loans to banks for the cost of the course that they will no longer be able to complete.

I always advise if you can't study look at a college for your certs atleast you will know the people teaching you are qualified and it isn't some douchebag reading from a script behind a computer screen.


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