# [SOLVED] High fan speed &amp; spontaneous shutdown



## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

Hi Guys!

I have a 2004 Acer Aspire T120 desktop which has run since new with no particular problems.
It has an AMD Athlon XP processor.
I have upgraded the RAM from 256MB to 512MB & added an Edimax EW 7128g PCI card, about a year ago.
I am running XP SP3 & am up to date with MS Hotfixes.
Avast! Is up to date & running always.

In the last week or so, I have noticed the cooling fan getting up to high speed more frequently than usual & staying there, even when nothing much is happening, even if I shut down all applications, leaving just the desktop.
Twice, so far, after running high fan speed for some time (hours?) then the PC has spontaneously shut down.
Since then, whenever the fan gets to high speed, I shut down manually & reboot, when usually all is OK for hours of use, but sometimes the fan gets up to high speed after typically 7 minutes.

I opened the PC & thoroughly cleaned the fan & heat-sink (removing the fan to do so) & it is all clean in there now, but the symptoms continue.

Any ideas how I can diagnose what is going on here? 
I have the Belarc Advisor Profile from today, if that helps.

Thanks!


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## Bullitt Repair (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Need to find out the actual temps. Try http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/SensorsView-Download-29890.html.


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Thanks, Bullit Repair, for that helpful lead!

I have been running SensorsView all afternoon & am a bit wiser…

The fan I am hearing is not the CPU fan but the AUX fan, whetever that is (power supply?).

When things are OK, I can run for hours with AUX temperature regulating between 54°C & 57°C.
The AUX fan is then running at 2411rpm & shifts for a few seconds to 2600 rpm to bring the temp down to 54°C.
At the same time, the CPU fan is running at 1455rpm & shifts to 1608 or 1705rpm whenever the AUX fan speeds up.
The SYS fan never runs.
SYS temp is stable at 41°C.
Unfortunately, I can't read CPU temperature, which shows 0°C, but I guess it is not important now.
All that was for the normal, good conditions.

The bad scenario runs like this:
After I boot, just to my desktop, I see AUX temp at 35°C, AUX fan at 1918rpm, CPU fan at 0rpm.
Within 6 minutes the AUX temp is up to 60°C & AUX fan has gone through 2400rpm, 2600rpm & 3100rpm, which is the "high fan speed" I recognize.
The AUX temp does not stabilize, reaching 70°C after 17 minutes from boot with the fan still at 3100rpm.
At this point, I shut things down as a precaution.

After 15 min cool-off, a reboot is perfect, with AUX stabilizing at 54-57°C for 90 minutes, so far.

So – what does that mean?


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## lanoth (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

54-57 sounds a bit warm to me


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

In the "bad scenario" I failed to notice one important factor - the CPU fan speed stays at zero...

I have been several times through "good" & "bad" scenarios now.

In the "good" one, AUX temp regulates at 54-57°C with AUX fan at 2400-2600 rpm & CPU fan at 1400-1800rpm.
This keeps going for as many hours as I want with no problem.

In the "bad" one, AUX temp reaches 60°C within 5-6 minutes & keeps climbing with AUX fan at 3125rpm, but CPU fan stays at zero.
This would lead to spontaneous shut-down, but I know now to switch off first.

Rebooting puts me in one or other case, for no obvious reason.

Should I assume It's a CPU fan problem or can I dig deeper?

Wonder why SensorsView doesn't see CPU temperature??

Thanks for any more suggestions!


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## CCT (Mar 21, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Your cpu fan may have failed - or it could be jammed with crud - have you actually looked at it?

A related thread - http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/forums/index.cfm?action=showthread&threadid=280239&forumid=1


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Thanks for that link!

Yes, as I said in my initial post, I did thoroughly clean the fan & (removing the fan) the heat-sink behind.
The fan spins very freely & keeps working if it ever starts.

Digging into this hardware is all new for me, so I am interested in any diagnostics before jumping at buying a new fan, if I can find one, of course!
Is there any way I can tell if it is the fan or the power to the fan?
Remember I am a novice at poking inside computers (but not totally tech-dumb, I can handle a voltmeter without electrocuting myself - up to now).

Thanks!


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## CCT (Mar 21, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Not having access to a Bios guide, you'll have to be the one that enters it and seeks out information as to fan settings, etc.

Here is a 'link' with a picture and description - 3 pin, 4-13.8 volt, 1800-5900 rpm, 70x70x15 mm.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cach...Fan+Model:+PV763DJ4&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

So, that is what the replacement should be like.

There will probably be other 3 pin fan connectors - try one. If the fan isn't moving every time now, a test shouldn't hurt.

There are also adapters available for the psu 12v molex to fan connections. eg: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556090236.html


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

Thanks very much for that precise reply!

At that price, it's worth a shot! :smile:

I tried to buy a new fan from GNLA for 6.99€ but hesitated at the 17€ shipping charge!
I found one for 3.90€ + 10€ shipping on eBay France, new from Mike's KTH, again in Germany.
It arrived today & I fitted it OK, but it has not changed the symptoms...

In the meantime, these symptoms have been getting steadily worse (what else?) notably the CPU fan speed, even when it is working, is about half what it used to be.

Presumably this means some nasty little bit of electronic componentry is failing & will be impossible to diagnose or repair?

New PC & Windows 7 here I come...

:sigh:


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## AustrAlien (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

CPU overheating causes a system to turn off immediately, with no error message, usually by default at 70°C.
Use something like *Speedfan* http://majorgeeks.com/SpeedFan_d337.html
to monitor the CPU temperature, and if you see temps in excess of 50°C, then you may have cause for concern, and if temps approach 70°C, then you have found the problem.

Other tools:
*Everest*:http://majorgeeks.com/download4181.html
*Motherboard Monitor*: http://majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=311

A quick way to test this is to download and run *toast.exe* http://majorgeeks.com/Toast_d867.html
This will run the CPU at 100%. If you can run this for 20 minutes without any problem, then your CPU cooling system is fine.

*If the thermal paste contact between the CPU and the heatsink is broken, temps may appear to be "normal", under most conditions. However, when the CPU is heavily utilised, the temps can spike upward sharply, causing the system to turn off.*

Let us know what temperatures are reported while running toast.exe for 20 minutes.
------------------------
*
***In BIOS Setup Menu, if applicable ...
Ensure that you do NOT have enabled, the setting allowing the CPU fan to be controlled: It must be set to run at all times, at full speed.*
This is the reason why you sometimes see that the CPU fan is not running!
--------------------------

Some useful links concerning replacing thermal paste ...

*How to correctly apply thermal grease*
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/274

*Arctic Silver 5*
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm
and go to "Instructions"


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Thanks, AustrAlien for all those suggestions!

I used SensorsView from 6 Oct until it expired & SpeedFan since (with enough overlap to see they show identical readings).
Neither reads CPU temperature - SensorsView showed 0°C constant & SpeedFan shows -55°C constant).

The key temperature I can read was called AUX in SensorsView & seems to be related to the main case fan.
If I boot from cold, this temp reaches 60°C within 5-6 minutes & keeps climbing with AUX fan at 3125rpm, but CPU fan stays at zero.

I am now running with the case side-panel off, so can watch the CPU fan, which spins fast for 20 seconds at boot, then slows & stops & will not spontaneously restart.
But if I wait until the AUX temp pases 54°C & the AUX fan hits 2400rpm, I can then kick-start the CPU fan with a pen (!) & it keeps running, but slower than required, I think.
I can get the same effect if I do a power-off reboot after 54°C, but not before.
Like that, AUX temp stays around 57°C with an occasional peak at 60°C which causes max fan speeds.

Because I can't read CPU temperature, I don't think there is any point in running Toast, is there?

I looked in BIOS setup menu (not my favourite place) but could not see anything which seemed related to CPU fan control.
Is it necessarily there?
What might it be called?
While in BIOS, the CPU fan & AUX (SYS?) fans were running at 3443 rpm & the CPU temperature came down to 42°C.

Does this mean anything to anybody?

I thought I would be able to force higher fan speeds with SpeedFan, but didn't find out how to do that...


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## AustrAlien (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*



2CV67 said:


> While in BIOS, the CPU fan & AUX (SYS?) fans were running at 3443 rpm & the CPU temperature came down to 42°C.


This is good to see: it means there is not too much wrong.

You said: "_The key temperature I can read was called AUX in SensorsView ................... If I boot from cold, this temp reaches 60°C within 5-6 minutes & keeps climbing_"
*This has got to be the CPU temperature!* AND it is way too high! (30 - 40°C would be a normal range at idle, and this should be the range seen in the BIOS Setup Menu, "Hardware Monitor" tab.

Have a look at the following link: It suggests a way around the "CPU fan not running" problem either as an interim fix/test or a permanent fix (see also, suggestion by *CCT* previously).

*Acer Aspire Problem* 
http://www.howtofixcomputers.com/forums/motherboards/acer-aspire-problem-40421.html

I did this (simply re-wired to the power supply) the first time that I came across the problem of a CPU fan not starting up .... until I discovered the setting in BIOS that was enabled allowing the CPU fan to be controlled, and hence not always running. If in doubt, either way, powering the CPU fan full-time from an unequivocally permanent source of power has got to be a good idea!

Have a read through this rather long thread: You might pick up a good idea that works for you.
*Need help on PC fans*
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/56501/

You said: "_I looked in BIOS setup menu ......... but could not see anything which seemed related to CPU fan control.
Is it necessarily there? What might it be called?_"

I cannot find motherboard/BIOS information to assist you with this. Somewhere in the Menu, you will find *settings associated with monitoring* of the CPU fan speed and temp, perhaps allowing you to change the temperature at which the system shuts down et al. Look somewhere here for the setting to enable/disable control of fan speed. If you can't find it, you might try documenting what you see, and posting the information here.

You said: "_I don't think there is any point in running Toast, is there?_"
There is no point in running *toast.exe*, because we know what is going to happen --- >>> over-heating >>> SHUTDOWN!


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Thanks AustrAlien for your continuing support - much appreciated.

I may give the hard-wiring method a go if I don't find a softer fix soon.

I have been in & out of BIOS a few times & I confirm that the 54/57/60°C temperature which I am monitoring with SpeedFan as 'Temp2' & with SensorsView as 'AUX' is identified as CPU in BIOS.

My CPU fan always spins up to 3400/3500rpm in BIOS & the CPU temp then settles to 40/41°C.

I still don't see anything related to CPU fan speeds in BIOS - see attached screenshots of first-level screens below.
I think I have been through all the options...

Is there any way I should be able to use SpeedFan to push my CPU fan speed up?

Thanks!


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## AustrAlien (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

You do need to remove the heatsink from the CPU and re-apply some thermal paste. The temperatures that you are reporting are far too high, and I do not think that the cause necessarily rests with the fan. Replacing the thermal paste is a routine maintenance job (annual/bi-annual), a bit like servicing your car. (But it's a lot easier and cheaper!)
May I suggest that you do this job as a matter of high priority.

I have just had a look at one of mine ... an Asus mobo ... and the "Q-Fan Control" is on the Hardware Monitor tab (equivalent to your PC Health Status tab). I'll have a look at some others later. It appears as though the "fan control" option is not available for your bios/mobo.


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

what are you running
video card
cpu
m/board
ram
power supply
brand
wattage


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Please find attached part of Belarc Advisor Scan which I think answers those questions better than I could.

Basically this is a standard Acer Aspire T120 except I added 256RAM & a PCI card.

It was working fine until recently & the problems did not follow any special event.

Note that the CPU fan NEVER starts spontaneously now, except during BIOS & for 20 seconds during boot.
After I kick-start it, it keeps running but only at 800/1100 rpm, which I don't think is enough, is it?
Especially not with the CPU at 57°C!

So I think I need to speed up the fan, rather than re-do my paste.

Thanks for any suggestion! :smile:


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## CCT (Mar 21, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Is the cpu fan connected to a 'marked' motherboard connector like 'cpufan1'?


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Yes CPUFAN1 to be exact!


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## CCT (Mar 21, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Well, there is some interesting and related info here; http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/56501/

It appears you MUST have something connected to the cpu fan connector and that the aux and cpu connectors have some strange Acer relation.

However, near the end of the thread, a poster says " The CPU one I got one with 2 pin and thus does not provide feedback to the CPU (so I won;t get the fan speed info) but surprisingly, the PC works".


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## AustrAlien (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*



CCT said:


> However, near the end of the thread, a poster says " The CPU one I got one with 2 pin and thus does not provide feedback to the CPU (so I won;t get the fan speed info) but surprisingly, the PC works".


@ *2CV67*
It would be very easy to test whether the above suggestion works on your system: Simply remove the CPU-fan sensor wire from the small 3-pin connector that plugs into your mobo, and then push the connector back onto the mobo pins. Try starting your system and see what happens.

I am suspecting a problem within the mobo on this one .... (or maybe just getting tired and lazy)
If it turns out that the computer will run without having the cpufan1 header on the mobo connected to anything, simply hard-wire the fan to a power lead coming directly from the PSU (by-passing the mobo altogether). Test it. How does it work?

If the latter suggestion works, then you may need to configure a Windows-based software solution (such as Motherboard Monitor 5, which is one that I use) to protect your system in the event of component malfunction.


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Have I got this straight - you suggest removing the feedback wire from the plug & seeing what happens?

OK - how would I know which is the feedback wire?
See picture of plug with yellow red & black wires.










Thanks for your patience!


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## AustrAlien (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*



2CV67 said:


> Have I got this straight - you suggest removing the feedback wire from the plug & seeing what happens?


Correct.

Re: the plug in the picture
Try the following ...
1. With the *plug removed* from the mobo CPUFAN1 pin header, press the ON button.
Does the system start? (Don't let the system get too far into the startup before you shut it down with the OFF button ... just 5 - 10 seconds should be enough.)
If it does start ... press the ON/OFF button and hold until the system shuts down.
2. With the *yellow wire removed* from the plug. push the plug onto the CPUFAN1 pin header and press the ON button.
Does the system start?
Does the fan spin up and stay running?
If it does start ... press the ON/OFF button and hold until the system shuts down.
3. With the *red wire removed* from the plug. push the plug onto the CPUFAN1 pin header and press the ON button.
Does the system start?
Does the fan spin up and stay running?
If it does start ... press the ON/OFF button and hold until the system shuts down.

Please post the results.

You said: "_how would I know which is the feedback wire?_"
Good question. Try as I might, I just can't remember for sure, based on my previous tinkering!
I think it is the NOT the black one (ground) and _probably_ NOT the red one (+12volt): That just leaves the other one, which, depending on the manufacturer, seems to be whatever colour is available at the time .... white, yellow, blue etc.
(***The colour coding of FAN wiring must not be confused with or thought to be the same as the wiring coming from the PSU !!!)


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

Thanks again AustrAlien - this is getting promising...

With plug removed, the system runs.
Of course no fan.

With yellow wire removed, the system runs.
No fan speed in SpeedFan.
Fan behaviour visually as "recent-usual".
Spins fast at boot.
Slows & stops after few seconds.
Starts spontaneously & fast at 60°C.
Keeps running slower at 57°C & 54°C.

With yellow back on & red removed, the system runs.
No fan.

Jumping ahead, I suppose this means I should be able to run OK with the red & black wires connected to a permanent +12v/ground source. :smile:

So now I need to find a suitable source...
That bit is probably obvious to you - not to me yet!

Thanks again!


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

OK - I found out about the Molex connector, so I suppose I use that?

Yellow/black for +12v/ground?


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## AustrAlien (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*



2CV67 said:


> this is getting promising .............
> *With plug removed, the system runs.*


That is a surprise! AND a pleasant one!

You said: "_... this means I should be able to run OK with the red & black wires connected to a permanent +12v/ground source_"
Yes, that should not be difficult ... as you said, one of the molex connectors on wiring coming from the PSU.

***Be aware that the PSU will be supplying +12volt in YELLOW wires!!!
The RED wires will be +5volt only.***


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## AustrAlien (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*



2CV67 said:


> the AUX fan, whatever that is (power supply?)


The fan in the PSU is NOT normally able to be monitored. I do not think it likely that it is the "AUX fan" you are seeing in your monitoring software.

Apart from the CPU fan, do you have any other fans in the box?
Do you perchance have a fan on a graphics card?

I am curious as to what this "AUX fan" actually is. You said at some stage that this was the fan making all the noise.
--------------

I said re connecting to a standard molex "that should not be difficult" .... maybe not difficult but probably by necessity rather crude. I do not think you can simply purchase a ready-made "adapter" for this very simple connection. There are other more fanciful options available, I am sure, but perhaps not altogether necessary, if you only intend to keep the old system going for a bit longer, and don't wish to spend any money/go to any more bother than necessary.


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

I have 3 fans: CPU fan - Case fan - PSU fan

SensorsView called them: CPU - AUX - SYS in that order.
(Not obvious, because it got the temperature labels screwed up)

I have never seen the PSU fan run...

The case fan, which I called AUX earlier, runs all the time, usually around 2400/2700rpm & is very noisy at 3400rpm+ which it reaches when CPU touches 60°C.


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## AustrAlien (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*



2CV67 said:


> *I have never seen the PSU fan run...*


Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!!!

*This should be running at all times !!! Check it out NOW.*


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

No...


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## AustrAlien (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*



2CV67 said:


> No...


No ???

There is something wrong if the PSU fan is not running all the time. It is necessary to cool the PSU which IS running all the time.

I am guessing that you NEED to replace the fan in the PSU: It has failed completely by the sound of it. I am somewhat surprised that your PSU is still working and hasn't cooked itself!


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## 2CV67 (Dec 3, 2007)

I replaced the PSU fan with a new (old) one I had lying around & it now runs all the time. 

Now I just need to try hooking the CPU fan to the Molex...

There we go - CPU 38°C :smile:

Noisy though...

Now I see why they sell the rheostat things!

How long does the fan last at full speed?

Once again - thanks for all the help!

Eureka! :idea:

I plugged the cPU fan into the 6v supply in the Molex... 

42°C & QUIET!! :4-clap:


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: High fan speed & spontaneous shutdown*

glad you have it sorted


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