# My new system in the works (wow another one of these threads lol)



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

Hey guys

Recently have been discussing which PSU I should get, finally decided after some great help from the guys in that department.

My list for my new comp is as follows

Antec NSK6580B Case
Intel Core 2 E8500 or E8600
ASUS P5Q3 Deluxe
850W Thermaltake Toughpower PSU
Kingstom DDR3 1600MHz Hyperx RAM
ATI Radeon 4870
500 GB Seagate HD
LG Supermulti
Maybe....Soundblaster X-Fi Platinum Fatality Champion series or the Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium (would like the front panel controls but the Titanium has more jacks, though I only need 3 for my 5.1 logitech speakers)

Those are the basics of the specs anyway, what iv been thinking about, was thinking of getting the P5E3 Premium but since im not really planning on running dual video cards now anyway it seems like a waste, plus the X48 is a lot more expensive than the P45

So the CPU, not sure yet because of the price difference, waiting a few months anyway so ill see if it comes down at all, have heard both are great chips, dont need a quad core, want it for general use but also to play sick games, does either one or those sound like a good choice?

PSU iv already pretty much decided for certain

The ASUS board, have heard its quite decent, others here same thing, I want to run DDR3 and like the layout/look of the P5Q3 series, again is this a good choice or does anyone have any suggestions on boards?

One main question is the Hyperx ram, I know it has lower latency but am wondering if anyone knows if there will be any problems running the Hyperx in the board I mentioned above, I know the regular kingston ddr3 1600mhz has been tested on this board by ASUS but cant recall the hyperx, (i know its been tested on the rampage board)

How about Creative Soundblaster cards, have always thought of them as one of the kings in audio (tho have a diamond sound card currently) are they still worth the time and also are the two I mentioned good in your opinions, out of the two can someone maybe give me some help deciding between them?

Hope this isnt too much, thanks to anyone that reads/replies to this, it would be greatly appreciated

Take care


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

In my opinion DDR3 is a waste of money with a E8500 or E8600 you won't be able the out run DDR2 800 without overclocking the fsb and cpu to the point of instability if you want a little more go for DDR2 1066

I would also get the E8500 over the E8600 the $80 price difference isn't worth the extra clock speed of 0.17Gig


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

would the RAM not slow down to the FSB speed, would I not have to overclock the FSB manually in order to match them up, FSB of those CPUs is 1333 right, what about DDR3 1333MHz RAM, would that work properly?

any idea, when/if a 1600 FSB Core 2 CPU is coming out?

main question though, what is your opinion on the HyperX RAM? would you foresee any problems with the P5QE Deluxe board with that RAM?


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Never used it 
look at DDR2 800 this way actual speed 400 Double Data Rate = 2 x 400 for 800, Dual channel 800 means 2 pipe lines at 800Mhz CPU communicates to the memory controler at 13333Mhz memory controller uses 2 pipes at 800 to communicate with the memory so what is DDR3 giving you besides emptier pockets??? 

If the Ram hasn't been tested/certified by Kingston yea I see problems.


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

thanks for the reply, after some researching I have a fair better understanding of how it all works now

however these two boards im looking at, either the P45 P5Q3 deluxe or the X48 P5E3 Premium I do not believe take DDR2 but only DDR3

the QVLs for both are quite different, prob gonna get Kingston RAM as that's a main supplier for where I work so I get good deals, I would like to run 2 GB sticks but have heard 2 GB sticks in dual channel don't work well with the P5Q3 Deluxe

the QVL for the P5Q3 Deluxe state I could run 2 GB sticks of DDR3-1067 Kingston RAM however only 1 GB sticks for 1333, the P5E3 Premium however I do not see any 2 GB sticks for Kingston listed, understanding this doesn't mean anything other could not be run but sticking with what was tested I would have to stay with 1 GB sticks with the P5E3

The one thing that attracts me to DDR3 is that they supposedly produce less heat and consume less energy, while also since they will be the standard for the future most likely it means compatibility with units in the future

I saw a RAM test write up for the P5Q3 Deluxe and they said the Kingston DDR3-1333 required no tuning in the BIOS however they were using 1 GB sticks

4 GB of RAM in total is prob enough however its nice to have that room incase one day 4 GB isn't cutting it anymore, however by then i'd prob get a new system, though my current system, Athlon XP 2500 has lasted myself about 6yrs and its been real good, though iv replaced a lot of its parts

anyway, thanks for the help, its really appreciated


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

IMHO im starting to see your point, looking more at the P5Q Deluxe (DDR2) opposed to the P5Q3 Deluxe (DDR3), however I like the built in wifi on the DDR3 board
boards a little cheaper and same with the ram
iv also read a lot of reviews with issues running DDR3 over 1333

however im interested to know, in most cases which the reports of issues with the DDR3 seem to be with overclockers
say I get some RAM from ASUS QVL, ex the QVL for the P5Q3 deluxe lists Kingston DDR3-1333 (for both 2x2gb and 2x1gb or singles etc), would there be any tweaking required for a system running that configuration or 'should' it be stable by simply installing the RAM and away you go?

thanks


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The point is the CPU's out today can't out run DDR2800 at stock FSB and even at OC speeds so why spend extra for faster ram?? It's like putting Z rated tires on a Toyota Pirus.
By the time DDR3 gets the bugs worked out it'll be like having DDR2 PC4200 533Mhz from 2-3 years ago you'll be looking to upgrade.


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

I loved that analogy, excellent lol, I have a 04 Grand AM 3.4L myself so I don't mind putting on the expensive tires, though I have full SLP exhaust, intake, tuned PCM etc lol

however I greatly understand your view and appreciated your opinion

What is your opinion on the P5Q Deluxe (DDR2) board from ASUS? I was looking at the M2F however its quite expensive and since I don't really have a need to OC im not sure it's worth the extra money. Could you possibly give myself a few boards you would recommend if its not too much trouble?

Thanks


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The Deluxe is good I used a couple P5Q Pro's and just used a P5Q E I think the sound is better on the P5Q E and all 3 OC pretty well.

Expensive tires are ok if they handle better but all the Z rating gives you is a tire rated for sustained speeds exceeding 149 mph


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

yea I like potenza's, no need to exceed that speed tho lol

I plan on getting an additional sound card so the onboard doesn't really matter too much, what attracted me to the other DDR3 board is the onboard wifi

do you think there is any justifiable reason for the M2F?


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Not that I see to justify the price of the M2F.
There's a lot of good reasons for WIFI but on a desktop where possible I rather have wired.
And my second choice is a Linksys WIFI card.


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

one last question, I think lol

the P5Q Deluxe says it takes DDR2-1200 as its standard, however it also runs 1066 and 800 obviously

I know you said previously 800 is about the fastest you can go but if I wanted a little more to get 1066, since this motherboard takes 1200 without OCing will there be any bennefit in using the 1200 over the 1066

however im also aware that the 1200 DDR2 aparently runs really hot

whats your opinion? thanks a lot man

ok one other lol, I have about 10 legal copies of XP Home and Pro so I am planning on using that for the meantime, maybe upgrade to vista 64bit at one point, i understand 32bit doesnt really recognize anything over 3gb but is there any issues with having 4GB with a 32bit OS, meaning will it cause problems or just not use all of the RAM avaliable?


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

No the extra ram won't cause any problems.
You can run any of those supported Ram speeds my point was you can spend the extra money for 1200 but the data isn't going to flow any faster than the cpu can get it to the memory 1066 pricing has come down a bunch so there isn't that much difference anymore
Cpu FSB = 1333 Ram speed 400(PC6400) Double Data Rate = 800 Dual chanel means 2 800Mhz channels to the memory controller FSB is single channel 1333(over simplified version). If you were running single channel Ram then you would see a difference.


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

thanks for all the help wrench, you've been great!

my reason of considering the M2F in the first place (besides its style lol, looks like some sci fi 80's idea lol) was that it comes with what seems a fairly decent sound card, a creative.

I had planned to get one of the new creative x-fi cards, the basic $100 one, so my question is one the card that comes with the M2F be in anyway comparable or on par with one of the x-fi cards sold separately, believe both are pci exp, if it is, the difference in that $100 makes buying the P5Q deluxe and that card the same as the M2F

have heard also the thermal paste used on the mainboards heatsinks are the not the best either on the M2F, though if no OC is planned it should be all right without taking it apart and reapplying better paste?

what do you think


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

While it is an expansion card I believe some of the functions still rely on some of the board chips, I'm not postive but I don't think it's the same as the X-FI gamer cards. Look at the size of them > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102024 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowI...ASUS Maximus II Formula ATX Intel Motherboard


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

so here is my issue now, I would like to stay with Kingston (however that is cause I get good deals on their RAM, maybe I should look at other RAM, what others would you suggest?)
almost certain im going with the P5Q Deluxe, I would like to initially get 2x2 GB sticks of RAM (so I have expansion etc), Kingston DDR2 1066 seems to only come in the HyperX series and not the ValueRAM

there is one Kingston DDR2-1066 listing on the QVL for ValueRAM that states 2 GB single works in A B C however on the part listing it says kvr10661g/1 which should mean its 1 GB not 2 GB lol

the only listing I see for 2 x 2GB in all slots is from GEIL (are they any good?) timing at 5-5-5-15, and the Corsair DDR2-1066 2x2GB, same timing, heatsink package (whats your opinion on Corsair RAM?) voltage on the Corsair is 2.1V does that pose any issues, though its listed on the QVL as A B C

Thanks, sorry if its a little jumbled, hope you understand what im trying to say/understand

Take care
on the QVL for the P5Q Deluxe it only lists 2x1 GB sticks of the HyperX 1066, do you think there would be any issue with 2 GB sticks?

there is a lot more availability on the QVL for DDR2-800, I know you said previously if I want a little more go with 1066, does that only apply for overclocking or would I notice a difference otherwise?

my main goal is to have a stable system, one reason im not bothering with OCing (that and I dont see it necessary)


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I use DDR2 800 on most builds now because of cost, I doubt you will see the difference unless it's really slow timings like CL7 or high 6's


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

do you think there would be any issues running RAM thats rated power supply is 2.1V even if the exact RAM is listed in the QVL for the mobo?

im looking at the Corsair Dominator 2 x 2 GB DDR2-1066 which again is on the QVL

Iv heard that these mobo's (the P5Q series) have fairly inadequate thermal paste under the bridges, however aparently it only poses a problem for overclocking, now im not wanting to overclock but my understanding with that RAM rated at 2.1V is factory overclocked, same question, do you think there would be any issues?

thanks


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

It's rated at 2.1v meaning that is the maximum voltage you can use on it 1.8v is normal
The thermal paste only becomes an issue when someones starts jacking the side buss voltages up, as with anything else if you are going to modify something from it's designed spec you better know what else it's going to effect. Like adding 150 horse power to your mustang then asking why did my rear blow??? Hi power in a pc = heat add the power you need to get rid of the heat.


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

ok well thanks for clarifying with myself about the thermal paste

sorry for these lamo questions, your replies are really really appreciated, now if I were to set that DDR2-1066 Dominator RAM at 1.8v would it slow down the speed of the RAM, such as from 1066 MHz to 800 MHz?

Im also looking at the DDR2-800 Dominator RAM (however there are a lot more options for 2 x 2 GB in the 800, whats your preferance in RAM, would you go with Corsair over Kingston?) though the timing is reduced to 5-5-5-18 opposed to 15 with the 1066, prob nothing I would even notice, the fans that come with them do they get power from the mainboard or from the RAM?

lastly will the 1066 RAM require tweaking in the BIOS or should it be plug and play

Thanks


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Personally I would use 4-4-4-12 Crucial DDR2 800 1330 FSB won't over run it until the cpu gets clocked up to about 3,8 if then.

http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=55F3418BA5CA7304

Cheaper at newegg


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

how does this RAM look, 4-4-4-12

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145194&Tpk=twin2x4096-6400c4dhx

so am I to understand 1066 RAM is really only beneficial when overclocking the FSB?
however DDR2-800 can clock to 1066 if desired though DDR2-1066 is basically the same (800) though its been rated to perform stably at that speed and supported by the manufacturer...

so this RAM should still require manually inputting the specs into the BIOS? does the 2.1v supply mean the max? meaning 1.8v which is standard should be good for this RAM or does it need 2.1v. would 1.8v still provide 800 MHz


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

That ram will work well

No you don't clock the 800 to 1066 The point is that 1066 can move data faster the cpu can in dual channel as can 800 at stock and mild to mid over clock speeds, to over simplify DDR = Double Data Rate the ram actually runs at 400Mhz DDR makes it 800Mhz Dual channel gives you 2 pipe lines from the ram to the controller(Northbridge chip) the cpu runs at 1333 from the cpu to the controller on a single pipe line. the faster ram speed only moves the data faster between the ram and the controller the cpu still runs the same speed so in real world use doesn't make the pc any faster. It does not hurt anything just empties your pocket faster. 

The bios set to auto will give you the correct speed that's why it's listed for the board
if you start setting the speeds up then you have the ability to move the voltage up if needed or if you add 2 more sticks sometimes you need the bump the voltage up .1 or so to stop v droop.


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

awsome, thanks a lot man, you have been so helpful! third explanation really made sense lol

with the BIOS set to auto what voltage will that RAM be running at?

I'v heard some ppl say they have had issues with this RAM and others in this board when running 4 sticks of RAM, but as you said some minor adjustments are required and BIOS updates etc. More issues iv read with the 1066 RAM as with 4 slots full they had to set the speed to 800 anyway.

At this point iv already ordered my Antec Case and a Thermaltake Toughpower 850w PSU and an LG 22' Flatron Widescreen LCD Monitor

Plan to order now:
Asus P5Q Deluxe
Intel E8500
2x2 GB Corsair DDR2-800 XMS2 RAM (as shown above)
500 GB Seagate HD
LG Supermulti w/lightscribe (get a blueray burned when prices come down lol)

Still planning on ordering a Radeon 4870 1 GB Video Card. Looking at all the manufactures, probably go with a Sapphire.
Was going to order the 100243-1GL but recently came across the 100259-1GL which has the black cover with the larger fan in the middle of the case, aparently runs at around 40C opposed to the first one running at 70-90C, would you have any input about those two Sapphire 4870 models or other 4870 manufactures?

Thanks


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I like the dual slot powercolor but I've read about the new sapphire running cooler I'm all for cooler

On auto it should run at 1.8v, I've used this Ram and the Crucial on these boards without issues with the Q6600(I think) on the older Bios 1066 wasn't supported on some boards because of the 1066 fsb speed of the CPU.


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

Yea they all have different warranty lengths too, between 1-3yrs between them all, both Powercolor and Sapphire have 2yr, thats in the middle, good IMO
probably go with the Sapphire 100259 just because of the reports how cool it runs!

Thanks a lot for your help man as iv said, so awesome, I think im about set, will let you know if I have any more questions and/or let you know when its all together

Take care


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

this ASUS 4870 1GB seems to have quite good reviews regarding how cool it runs, have you heard anything about this card, what are you thoughts on an ASUS video card?

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121277

price is in CAD if it seems high


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I've never used them but I can't say I heard of any problems with them either I like the fact they are addressing the cooling on the ATI cards


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

yea man, im glad iv waited to order them cause that Sapphire 100259 just came out a few weeks ago and seems like the one to get, however its really wide with the copper cooling heat pipes protruding from it

so it turns out the case I thought I bought hasn't been ordered, so since thats a fact im looking at another case, the Antec Three Hundred

this is the case I was gonna get

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129045&Tpk=nsk6580b

and here's the three hundred for easy viewing

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042

so my issue is finding a case thats wide enough for this card plus one that looks good and has good cooling

I like the NSK6580B cause it has a firewire port on the front (tho thats a silly reason alone to get it)

the NSK case is .15'' wider than the three hundred, NSK=8.25'' W, Three Hundred=8.1'' W, I would hope either one of those cases could fit the 4870 w/copper pipes

one thing, one case the PSU is on the bottom the other is on the top, got my toughpower 850w today, seems like nice long cords, hopefully wouldn't be any problems getting the cords to their spot in general or because of the fact the 4870s are beasts

like the fact the three hundred has more fans and larger ones at that, tho have heard its a lot louder

would you possibly have any input on these thoughts?

thanks


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

so iv hit a little snag in getting my RAM, have asked on the Corsair forum what they think of running 8 GB of the TWIN2X4096-6400C4DHX RAM, they said there might be issues running all 4 DIMM slots

only plan on running 2 x 2 GB at first but would like the option to max it out in the end, heard other issues with running 4 DIMMs full

they said I might have to lower the speed of the RAM to run 4 slots, such as lower 800 to 667 and 1066 to 800

so im wondering if I should get 1066 and just lower it to 800 so than when/if I fill 4 slots that I can run the RAM at 800 MHz

have read less issues with running 4 slots with the g.skill RAM, what is your opinion on g.skill, do they have good support?

what do you think I should do, not really sure when I would need 8 GB but would like the option as I said, im a little confused at the moment as ASUS QVL says I can run A B and C of the Corsair and g.skill RAM

thanks


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Get the corsair put 4gig in it I'll bet you never see more then 3gig in use even on 64bit vista unless you start running multiple work stations off of it. since it's 1.8v you will have a little room to bump the voltage up to 1.9 to get 4 sticks running if necessary.


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

the corsair DDR2-800 4-4-4-12 right?

not the dominator


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Yes the XMS2


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

sweet man, its all coming into fruition, have my Antec 300 and Toughpower 850w already

going with the 4870 100259-1GL, e8500, P5Q Deluxe, 500 GB Seagate HD, the Corsair RAM, gonna use my old PCI Diamond sound card for now, LG DVD-RW combo w/lightscribe (get a blueray burner when they come down a little).

should have it all in front of myself in a month or so hopefully

Thanks again, you rock man!


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

soooo

iv ordered everything but the RAM lol, shouldn't have waited another 2 days, the XMS2 I was looking at just went up more than $50!

It's actually a few dollars cheaper now to buy the 1066 dominator RAM

so, since its basically the same price do you think I should go with the dominator, its listed on the QVL same as the XMS2 so I wouldnt think there would be any issues

couldn't I actually underclock the dominator to 800 and set the timing to 4-4-4-12 as its rated for 5-5-5-15 at 1066 mhz?

I don't think there is a big difference in performance difference between the two to begin with is there?

thanks


----------



## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Get the 1066 and run it at 1066 there isn't a big difference, the extra speed will make up for the timings. The Ram market is moving to 1066 as standard so it looks to be the price point now.


----------



## PRSF (Jul 11, 2008)

great, thanks man, gonna order it today while its still the same price lol

take care


----------

