# Windows 10 Not Working



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

Took delivery of Lenovo Yoga 710 (i7), which has the dubious distinction of the new version of Windoze 10. 

Took the time to turn off all of the Win10 cr*p, and try to resolve the networking through my WiFi router.

Went without too much hassle with a Lenovo Yoga 510 (AMD A9) the previous week, but that had a Win 10 with HomeGroup still there. 

Despite the "wise" advice to try to resolve the network HomeGroup problem (sometimes it "sees" two machines on our net, sometimes (more often) it "sees" none at all) using Networking and Sharing Media Streaming, the problem still persists. 

I am inclined to replace the installed anaemic 256Gb SSD with a 1Tb one, but am disinclined to clone the "bad" windoze 10 already on the 256, along with it's consequent networking disability, so I am thinking of a fresh start using a previous version of '10. 

But I would like to know please, if there is actually a working solution to this, if only for future reference and the inevitable questions I am bound to get when this latest idiocy hits the users.

Also, if anyone here knows specifically why I am increasingly conscious of a reverse-migration, back to Windows 7 among users of whom I am aware. They have not been forthcoming on the subject yet, but they are avidly downloading the last version of Windoze 7 like it's NOT going out of fashion. I know from experience what a pain '10 is compared to 7, but this is more than some died in the wool gamers going back to 7 Ultimate for the XP and DOS that you can still run on it.


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

> Took the time to turn off all of the Win10 cr*p,


 did you perhaps turn off something that would hamper Networking? 
Go to *Settings/Network & Internet/Change Connection Properties*. Make sure the _Network Profile _is set to* Private*, and not_ Public_. 
Instead of using Media Streaming, press the *Win* Key*+R* and type the computer name of the computer you want to view on your network (ie) *\\[ComputerName] *the shared files should show up.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

Hi and thanks for your input. Yes, I did the thing with Public/Private... in fact exactly as I did with our three T400s, three X230s, and latterly the Yoga 510. Windoze 10 steadfastly refused to "see" the other units. And of course on the working models we get the list of available accessible computers. But I'll give your Win R a spin and see how it feels about it. Thanks again.
And I do take your point re turning somethng off "I didn't ought to" but frankly I got to the stage where I was even turning off the pesky firewalls... like I need them when we run Avast... but still the net to other systems was (at best) patchy.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

I just brought the unit downstairs, nearer to the WiFi adapter and the other systems appeared. The oldest unit (t400 on Win 7 Utlimate) accessed fine. But the others get us into another Microshaft Paranoia Roundabout called 
Credentials... of which there are two flavours, it seems. 

So it also seems that the wifi adapter aboard the 710 laptop is a little less than adequate. None of the other systems ever had a problem with any of this. So I went to see it in Device Manager, which is still there at least. But it is now a list of some thirty entries and impossible to decipher which is which.

And of course the Credentials demand box won't take the login and password either. 
I hate this silly corporate performance and always try to turn it off. I suspect that more users than Microshaft would be comfortable with do too. This is, after all, Windows 10 HOME, not Windoze 10 Monolithic Megalith.

Private net in private dwelling, no unauthorised users. No corporate cr*p required. And of course the information regarding turning credentials off is opaque and obscure. Microshaft will want you to do one of their silly qualifications before you can use Windoze soon. 

I even found a click point in one of the boxes during this which referred to Homegroup, but like the new Windoze philosophy, it didn't achieve anything, Didn't even turn it off, it just ignored us. 

No wonder people are growing to hate this pile of cr*p! 

Love the laptop, hate the Windoze.


----------



## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Would this be what your looking for https://www.windowscentral.com/how-setup-and-manage-windows-10-homegroup-local-network


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

> So I went to see it in Device Manager....it is now a list of some thirty entries


 The only entries you should be concerned with are under *Network Adapters*. And the adapter that says it is *WiFi*. Go to the Lenovo Drivers site, https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/ type in your model # And Download the latest WiFi drivers for your model. 
Also consider getting a WiFi Extender for your down stairs. 
As for credentials, remember that you must have a a password set on each shared computer to view them across the network. You can turn off Password sharing on each computer by going to *Control Panel/Network and Sharing/Advanced Sharing/All Networks/Turn off password protected sharing*
The easiest way to see a network share is to open the *Run* box or in _Cortana_ search,and type the computer name of the shared computer (ie) *\\ComputerName*


----------



## tristar (Aug 12, 2008)

Looks like this is the case of the SMB vulnerability that was fixed.. New installs have the newer SMB v enabled and the old 1.0 disabled causing this issue..

You might want to look under Windows programs and ensure all the devices are upgraded to the newer SMB v2.0/3.0.. That should probably take care of this..


----------



## jenae (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi, as long as you continue to use Avast, you will have problems it is much better for your security if you use Windows Defender and issues caused by poor code from third party AV's who cannot afford to keep up, will not interfere with your computer. We have over 300 million computers under our control, windows ten is by far the least problematic of all, the instances of problems has reduced to one third of windows seven's. The trick is to leave it alone, it takes far more expertise then you might imagine to tweak 10 properly, then you should be aware of issues, if you do so. The only recorded problems we have relate to people who mod or use third party optimizes or third party AV's. By design Windows ten aims to make the AV industry what it should be, obsolete


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

spunk.funk said:


> The only entries you should be concerned with are under *Network Adapters*. And the adapter that says it is *WiFi*. Go to the Lenovo Drivers site, https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/ type in your model # And Download the latest WiFi drivers for your model.
> Also consider getting a WiFi Extender for your down stairs.
> As for credentials, remember that you must have a a password set on each shared computer to view them across the network. You can turn off Password sharing on each computer by going to *Control Panel/Network and Sharing/Advanced Sharing/All Networks/Turn off password protected sharing*
> The easiest way to see a network share is to open the *Run* box or in _Cortana_ search,and type the computer name of the shared computer (ie) *\\ComputerName*


Thanks to everyone for your input. However I had actioned the advice here as it was among the first which struck a chord. And I have no idea what an SMB is. 
I have found Microshaft professional advice in the past (wether paid for or free), of which I have a lot... past that is... frequently to be opaque to the outsider. Outside the Microsoft Certified Professional Clique that is. If it were otherwise, lets face it, forums like this would not be needed. As I said earlier, this is Windoze HOME, not any kind of Windoze corporate. God help us, what must Windows 10 Ultimate be like... or perhaps there isn't one. 

If I wish to network then it should be simple to effect and not require the acquisition of a degree in computer jargon and to travel some frequently obscure routes into the bowels of Windows 10. We still have here, as I first opined, a great little laptop, and Windoze 10... which has been in the way rather than establishing a way, as it sells itself. So far, in my aged opinion, and after many previous installations over years as a professional maths and computing educator, I know that Windoze 7 can be fatally crashed. I have never managed to fatally crash Windows 10. No matter what I've done. That has to say something. Xp was not dis-similar, except for the crashing. Vista would crash if you failed to place your index finger in your left ear and sing ave maria, before you tried to use it. I still have some original Vista units here somewhere. They are in fact early hand-helds made by HTC, the phone company. Boy did we have to work to try and get 7 to work on them.

A USB Wireless router signal extender/booster is en route as I write. It is one which needs to pair with your router, and was one item in wifi advice that I could grasp pretty quickly. I had no wish to amplify all local router signals. 
And I'm plodding through and checking each unit to ensure that dratted password thing is turned firmly off. The main operating unit (Win 10 UG from 7) was still passwording, and I could have sworn I got them all. 

I do thank all of you contributors for your time and trouble. And will probably return to your wise words in this post many times in the future, assuming I have any left. I am still intent on replacing the 1/4Tb SSD, as I got the Yoga 510 and even that came with a 1Tb HD. And I think that it's good experience. And I found some adapters to connect an SSD to 1) a USB, and 2) a SATA interface. 
I kind of remember all of this from donkey's years ago, and only the technology (naturally) and the acronyms used to describe them have changed. We were all running MFM hard drives then, with the money men on SCSI. We'd just graduated from (hard and) 5.25" soft sectored floppy disc drives, and any hard drives we encountered were darkly referred to as "The Winchester". Yes, I'm afraid I am that old. So my thanks to you, the future, from myself, the past.


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Nice Rant, but did you follow any of the advice given?
(ie) Uninstalling _Avast_? Going to the *Run* Box and typing the computer name (ie) *\\[ComputerName]*? And updating your WiFi adapter at the Lenovo site?


----------



## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

"Nice rant"

I had to laugh. I also had to check the 'Like' box.

I'm sure I've been accused of same, though maybe not in print. I also was reprimanded for using the forum as a sounding board for my gripes against Win10. The reprimand was well warranted. Though sometimes difficult, I'm making a concerted effort to refrain from such behavior.

I cut my 'computer teeth' on Vista. One would think, being new to computers, I would have had more problems with it than a well seasoned computer user. Not so. I never had the constant crashing and other major problems that now give Vista a bad name. It's still my favorite OS.

I'm sure, though, had I first learned computers using XP, and became accustomed to it, I would have found Vista, with all its changes, to cause much ire and contempt.

I gave Win7 a good try. Though not a drastic change from Vista, I disliked it enough to put off switching OSs for as long as I could. I bypassed both '8s'. Win10 had been around quite a while before I succumbed. It was a case of 'Have to', unless I went to Linux, Mac or other.

For a long time, I was bitter. My major complaint was and still is, 'Everything is so damned hard to find'. In fact, learning to use it is much like learning computers for the first time. There is no 'smooth transition' from previous systems to Win10. After two years, I still find the seemingly haphazard rearrangement and placement of various Windows features to serve no purpose at all.

Somewhat less in dislike is all the unnecessary bells and whistles. Maybe they were added to give the buyer a sense of getting their money's worth. I don't know. I do know, I've had it up to here with apps. And I dislike the top of my file pages littered with options readily found in the right click context menu.

I wont even get into privacy issues. Those in 'the know', say there's nothing to worry about. The masses aren't buying that assessment.

Win10 will never 'grow on me'. I find it the least user friendly of all the operating systems I have used, including Ubuntu. As I stated above, I was bitter. I no longer am.

If we're going to use Win10, we might as well mellow out to it. It ain't gonna go away. It is becoming somewhat easier to use as time goes by. But this mellowing should go both ways.

I believe MS, with good intent, wanted to rock the world with a totally new concept in personal computers, (it's a competition thang), and they did. I also believe, in their zeal, they went overboard.

Word is, Win10 is going to be around a long time. Maybe long enough for MS to do some mellowing. Maybe long enough for MS to get away from the 'bang for your buck' mentality (most haven't been impressed), and more towards a realistic, no nonsense approach to home computing. Doesn't sound very futuristic, but it is.

Every new operating system, not just Windows, presents with problems. It seems that the problems confound the computer literate more so than the novice. At any rate, most problems can be fixed. Some easily, some with much hard work.

In a nutshell, I will never feel the fondness for Win10, I felt for Vista. But change is necessary and inevitable. We just gotta take the bad with the good and work to make the bad, better.

I will try to not judge Win10 too harshly. There will be revisions. There will be revisions of those revisions. It could just be that, in time, there will be a version of Win10 that will please most all users.

Truth is, had it not been for this forum helping me through my problems with Win10, I would still be using Vista 90% of the time, and using Win10 only to get on the Internet, and then only when I absolutely had to.

Thank you, TSF


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Another great Rant. 
This is not the place to air your grievances against Microsoft. If you have a technical question, type it here and we will try and answer it. There are other places on the net you can share your opinions. 
As for Privacy,you can always turn off the default settings. https://www.techrepublic.com/articl...y-default-heres-how-you-can-protect-yourself/
You may find Windows 10 easier to use if you download Classic Shell. This gives the desktop the look of Windows 7 or Vista. It brings back the classic start menu with it's _All Programs _list. 
Anything else you need to find, you can use the *Search *function in File Explorer on the upper right of each File Explorer window.


----------



## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

My intent was not to air grievances against Microsoft. I think my real intent is obvious to most readers. I've been a member of this forum for several years. I have not known one staff member to stick strictly to the technical aspect of a post and not at some point, post personal opinions along side technical advice. And while they would never speak disparagingly of Microsoft, they have no problems with acknowledging that Microsoft isn't perfect.

My post was more for q_flestrin, to say that things were not as bad as they seemed and that with the help from TSF, most any Win10 issue could be resolved. In effect, the whole post was directed towards complimenting the TSF staff.

This is one time you are dead wrong. If you find my post so offensive, you have the option of deleting it. I know you can. And if you feel I've done a great injustice to Microsoft, I suggest you speak with your superiors. They do have the authority to terminate my membership.


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Nobody said your post was offensive!? and no one wants to terminate your membership!? Just Please try not to veer off the path, keep your comments to the subject of the original thread and your original question.


----------



## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

likekinds said:


> My intent was not to air grievances against Microsoft. I think my real intent is obvious to most readers. I've been a member of this forum for several years. I have not known one staff member to stick strictly to the technical aspect of a post and not at some point, post personal opinions along side technical advice. And while they would never speak disparagingly of Microsoft, they have no problems with acknowledging that Microsoft isn't perfect.
> 
> My post was more for q_flestrin, to say that things were not as bad as they seemed and that with the help from TSF, most any Win10 issue could be resolved. In effect, the whole post was directed towards complimenting the TSF staff.
> 
> This is one time you are dead wrong. If you find my post so offensive, you have the option of deleting it. I know you can. And if you feel I've done a great injustice to Microsoft, I suggest you speak with your superiors. They do have the authority to terminate my membership.


Your post is not being deleted, and you are wrong SF cannot remove it however he has the right to ask you stay on topic as does anyone, in this case you jumped to a assumption and it was the wrong one, now let's all get back on topic and see if there is a practical form of help that can be offered.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

spunk.funk said:


> Nice Rant, but did you follow any of the advice given?
> (ie) Uninstalling _Avast_? Going to the *Run* Box and typing the computer name (ie) *\\[ComputerName]*? And updating your WiFi adapter at the Lenovo site?


I promise, I am working through your advice. As I said, the wifi extenders are en-route, the windozes are being checked for passwording and I am determined to pursue those various routes mentioned. However I can only agree with the other poster's opinion regarding illogical and irrational placements of the various apps needed to humanise Win 10... in fact I had no issues with the entire post. 
I tried those two free Shells a while ago. Initially to mitigate the demand for (in my case) irrelevant logging-in all the time and to give me Control Panel (as was). They work. 
There are now currently something like sixty three passwords that I used, and which Win10 will no longer permit, before the shell took the slavery away.

Regarding my apparent lack of progress so far. I would be impatient with me too. I have been provided with the necessary advisements. What on earth is preventing me from making Win 10 Home fly along in this 710? In two words, disability and illness. Sorry to report that I qualify on both counts... I am both old, and a crock... an old crock. My doctor et al have turned me into a legally sanctioned drug addict Early mornings here, right by the cold North Sea, I could seek pain relief (the preferred option) or fill maracas. And whilst my intent and resolve are firm, other internal corporate shareholders on my board introduce sometimes insurmountable barriers to swift progress. I both regret it, and deplore it, at the same time. And I apologise unreservedly. 
I will get there where you all are, but it'll take me more time than it should, and more time than your considerate and interesting responses deserve. Please stay with me, and I'll try to do the same.


----------



## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Report back on your progress when you can.


----------



## jdsmort (Jul 29, 2008)

May I add a comment here regarding the networking.. I had a problem with this late last year.. and found my problem was that for some (unknown) reason, port 465 was not listening on my main computer, which prevented simple access to networks. Other computers on the network could see the computer but reported it as "not responding" when the network troubleshooter was used and the results expanded.. 
I found the fix was relatively simple.. strange, but simple... to disable the adapter being used.. in my case, ethernet, (but I also had this duplicated in wirelessand the same applied) and then re-enabling. Also one other thing which might or might not have helped.. turn off IPV6 on the adapter. After doing the disable/enable, having checked the port using Portquery (portqryV2)prior to this and after, I found 465 was now listening, and the network connections then were all re-established.
This may not apply in this case, as it seems credentials are currently in question.. but may be worth checking.
I have to add that no-one here was able to ascertain why port 465 was not listening, with an added red herring of SMB1 entering into the fray, but at least I eventually found the fix.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

joeten said:


> Report back on your progress when you can.


Got some time with it today. Thanks for all of your very supportive input. Like the man said "My post was more for q_flestrin, to say that things were not as bad as they seemed and that with the help from TSF, most any Win10 issue could be resolved" He was perfectly correct. You were all game-changers for me. 

I managed to pull the trigger on a 1TB ssd, but rather than start the whole thing up again, I will now go back to plan A, and use Paragon to clone the 1/4Tb extant on to the 1TB. Hopefully the interface boards will now be in transit from sunny downtown China and I can choose whether to use USB or SATA (I have one of those caddies they used to sell, with SATA and IDE sockets in a slot to a USB, so either might apply). I'm currently occupied between times, getting the old data and my favourite aged tv series off these old externals and on to new little 5TB Seagate Backup drives. The usb to SATA/IDE caddy has come in handy for substituting in the case of failing external HD caddies etc. 

Then some experimentation with the liberated 1/4TB ssd, I think.

Done the AVAST removal, and awoken Defender. That was a surprise. In the early days, Defender was not highly regarded, and we tended to AVG... in my own case with half-yearly runs of Trend Micro's online virus scanner, Housecall. If you reckon Defender then I'm happy to go back to it. As I recall, the likes of AVG used to suspend it as part of the install.

I wish you'd all been around when we were trying to get 7 to go on those HTC Shifts. 










https://www.coolsmartphone.com/2010/12/23/htc-shift/

All we had for peer review was a kind of HTC mobile phone focus group. xda-developers.com. They were, like you, very clever folks, but for more often they were a bit too clever for us. Not a problem I've found here, which is great. 
The 710 is coming in and will (on current showing) pretty soon start earning it's keep and my confidence. The 510 is already doing well, providing 'kneetop' service as a pdf reader. Diabetes, one of the board members who are now majority shareholders, does your eyesight in as well as the obvious, and yoga type laptops can help a lot with reading pdfs, and playing my audiobooks, as well as playing my old movies and tv series.

Thank you techsupportforum.


----------



## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

TSF has been around a fairly long time personally been here 10+ years others even longer, but back then it was a 1 man founder ( I think ) set up and may not have been so noticable but time has progressed and we have grown though these days growth is a little slower, but aren't we all. Glad to hear your making progress lets hope that you continue to do so but if not we are still here when you have further questions or issues.


----------



## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

q_flestrin said:


> Done the AVAST removal, and awoken Defender. That was a surprise. In the early days, Defender was not highly regarded, and we tended to AVG... in my own case with half-yearly runs of Trend Micro's online virus scanner, Housecall. If you reckon Defender then I'm happy to go back to it. As I recall, the likes of AVG used to suspend it as part of the install.


this should clear it up https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...nder-and/54cd144f-2957-4368-a2a4-f74d44595847


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

Back to the grind. Networking is now networking, plaudits due here for that.
But passwording paranoia still extant. I'm sick of netplwiz, sign up, et al. None of the clever advice online actually works. Indeed one chap had some dark hints about Lenovo forcing us to use passwording, whether turned off or not.
Tell me it's not that, please.

Not only does it demand a/the/it password, it also has substituted a name I gave it elsewhere for the moronic login that it still demands, despite my having supposedly turned it all off. And that is only for show, it seems, since it still requires the old one to get in. So I am still forced to type in my email address and the eighty-seventh password so far, before I can get to work.

This is what drives users like me, who really have no use for all this, stone nuts... and force us to seek the relief and peace of a previous version... which has no passwording. It seems that like so many other things today, you can apparently do all of these things that I want to do, except when you can't.
I want to get my work done, not learn about every tricky dicky quaintly named "secret" app that some wonk in seattle decided was good fun. When I think of it now, it all started, and the tone was set, by my outsmarting myself in picking up a more advanced model of the Yoga. This one almost convinced me that my cataracts were even worse. It was nothing of the sort of course. No, the windoze had been "blessed" with (and I kid you not) adaptive screen illumination. The net effect of which was to make the screen flicker in daylight and to convince me that my cataracts were definitely getting worse. And since this was pre-techsupport, it took me over an hour and loads of allegedly wise online words, and agreeing to accept thirty seven thousand cookies and assurances of data vigilance, before I finally found the way to turn the damn thing off. 

Please somebody, tell me how to get rid of this paranoid idiocy, all of it, and let me get back to work. I get so little time to work, in between illness, as it is. I can do without wasting what little time I can get, logging in constantly. I think I might have stopped mid-term demands for passwords... by... for heaven's sake... changing the power plan... but all of it is accidental. I'm a big fan of The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and now I feel something of the fear that must have afflicted our hero, Arthur Dent, as he constantly awoke each day to new and fresh disasters. I've begun avoiding this laptop unconsciously. Soon it'll be intentional. Then it'll get a new ssd, and we'll all go back down the rabbit hole again. I can't clone this password bounty-hunter on to a young, unsuspecting ssd can I?

I used Douglas Adams material unmercifully in my teaching materials, as I always found it acceptable, even to the "hard of thinking", as T Pratchett's Granny Weatherwax would have it. I have been back to the chapters of the audiobook today, to reassure myself that it is a novel, and not the windoze lifestyle that I can't cope with. 
Now it's time for the two "B"s
Barbiturates and Brandy.


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Nice Rant!
If you use a Microsoft Account to login, you _have_ to type in your Email Address and your Password. 
However, you can switch to a Local Account. Create your own User Name, and no password, if you like, or if you want to Network your PC's create a Password, but once logged in, press the *Win *Key*+X* and choose *Run*. In the _Run _box type* netplwiz *and press enter. Uncheck _user must type a password to login to this PC_. Type your password 2 more times and restart. You will now login automatically and will not need to type in a Password. You will not have access to the MS Store or be able to link other devices to this account, but you won't have to type in a password.


----------



## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

spunk.funk said:


> *You will not have access to the MS Store or be able to link other devices to this account*


This is just a little correction to the info quoted above. Using a local account does not prevent you from accessing MS Store, or any other Store app that uses an MS account. You can sign into an MS account on the individual apps, including the Store app, without changing your Windows user account into an MS account. Likewise, you can link other devices to your MS account without necessarily switching your Windows user account from a local to an MS account. Using a local account however, will hamper to some extent, that universal feel/shared experience across multiple Windows 10 devices, for example; device settings won't be synced across them.

Windows 10 allows you to configure a PIN as an alternative sign-in option. Your user account will still need a password before you can add a PIN, but typing in a 4-digit code is a lot less cumbersome than fiddling with a myriad of passwords, isn't it? You can also unwisely remove the password from your local user account altogether!

As far as password-protected sharing/networking is concerned, I am yet to fully understand why accessing network shares is sometimes not possible until you provide user credentials, even after disabling password-protected sharing! On some hosts it works, on some it doesn't, from Windows 7 to 10. It's not a problem exclusive to Windows 10. I have in the past struggled with this for hours on end and for days, until I figured it was best to simply use password-protected accounts configured for automatic logon on workstation hosts or save Windows Credentials on each host that wishes to access network shares from other hosts.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

Hi mr spunk:funk, it must have got lost in the fury of my rant, but I did that silly netplwiz early on... to no effect whatever. 

As I often found when working for a living, there is always something to learn. In desperation, I set the update thingy going, thinking my version (1803, from winkey R winver)) and the suspected (although not widely publicised) problems reported post version 1800, were conspiring. It's still chugging away. 
After a year or two, I got fed up with 7 updates tying up the system to little effect, and turned them off... seemed even more appropriate when microsoft stopped supporting 7. As a result, even though not a metered connection, I tended to turn that on, to stop the system arbitrarily forcing updates. They once killed a rather anaemic tablet I had, stone dead, from overflowing and swamping the 'memory', so I was always wary. Bet that's commonplace among non certified professionals too. 
So that's cooking. But my search continues for a humanised win 10. 

Today, with regard to win 7 and Yoga 710 I turned up this post and two free dloads... which I may try when the new ssd arrives. As well as this, an interesting lead appeared, with regard to a dual install. We used to see this with Windows XP and Linux, I recall. Linux was something. It came from Unix, which was a massive true multi-tasking OS for then mini computers. Microsoft hated it 'cos Linux was free, and frequently better than windows. Then when it started running windows software in an app, as merely a job, they went mad. IBM had a superb true multi-tasking OS as well, called OS2. Microsoft saw that off too. Which was odd, since at the time they were protagonists on more or less equal footing. IBM was on the way down, and microsoft were on the way up.
https://www.sevenforums.com/drivers/407196-need-help-finding-drivers-lenovo-yoga-710-14ikb-win7.html
They rate this for getting and setting win 7 drivers where they don't normally permit.

Then regarding this sign-in performance, I found this thing called Windows Password Reset, being touted on some site called Appgeeker. That answers the question why microsoft won't provide a "kill switch" for passwording. They've created a minor software industry for people who forget or fall foul of this. And for only 19;95, for the basic edition, they'll solve the problem you never really had until windows 10. What do you bet the password pushers in seattle have shares in it?
They're not alone either. Try Passcape Reset Windows Password v9.0.0.905 Advanced Edition Bootable. 
All of these password recovery apps depend upon the buyer knowing how to deploy the iso file that they arrive in, and be able to create the boot cd (or memory stick) it needs. Home users??? Get real!!! It's another money-maker. Mom and pop, as the americans style them, are not going to be able to do that, but they'll cause employment to someone who can. Everybody wins... except the average non-microsoft certified professional owner of the windows 10 of course.

After around 5 hours updating, windows has decided it is up to date. And this, even after I turned the metered connection thing off... took an hour to find that again. Don't even think of trying "metered" as a search. That would be reasonable, and we are in Windows. So, has it decided to obey that netplwiz? No such luck. There it sits, with the "Users must enter a username box", firmly un-ticked, and there it sat (when I turned it on) demanding full login. It doesn't show the "Guest Account" that I never created in the list of accounts any more, so all of that updating has done something. 
See now, a reasonable presumption based upon experience would lead you to right click on that remaining Administrators Users Account, to go to some configuration page, but things have moved on, and all boxes and buttons are greyed out.
STOP PRESS: Now if you tick the box in netplwiz, and then un-tick it, and then 
complete the user sign-in YET AGAIN, with the password demanded twice, and then re-boot, the demand disappears like magic.
I would go back to work and write these idiocies up for a living except they tell me that I don't have that much living left anyway, and there are so many instances that I doubt I'd be able to keep up. 

Anyway this should shut me up on here for a while at least and you can go back to reading and answering terse posts from equally beset windows users. Au resevoir, as Mapp used to say to Lucia.


----------



## jenae (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi, actually netplwiz has always worked you simply need to know how to use it. It was designed to prevent a accidental or malicious attempt at removing a password.

Open the util then put a check in the users must enter....box, highlight the account you are concerned with and then uncheck the users must enter.... box. The account selected remains highlighted. Next press on "apply" the "automatically sign in" window opens, OK to effect the change, I don't bother with a password on this general use test machine so I leave the boxes empty.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

jenae said:


> Hi, actually netplwiz has always worked you simply need to know how to use it. It was designed to prevent a accidental or malicious attempt at removing a password.
> 
> Open the util then put a check in the users must enter....box, highlight the account you are concerned with and then uncheck the users must enter.... box. The account selected remains highlighted. Next press on "apply" the "automatically sign in" window opens, OK to effect the change, I don't bother with a password on this general use test machine so I leave the boxes empty.


If it was designed to be so helpful, why was it too much for microsoft to actually say so? Why not say, in that largely facile "Help" system they employ so much, "Hey, there's a simple tool to stop the demand for passwords. It's called netplwiz, and it works like this..."
"And while we're at it, yes we got rid of HomeGroup, but here's what you do instead..." 
They could use a little dash of reality out there.

Are you saying up there, that if I run netplwiz, select an account and do that little dance with the check/uncheck, and then leave the password fields blank, that it will get rid of the passwords altogether?
Can I do something similar to that useless microsoft account that I was forced into when I first turned this on?


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Yes the netplwiz trick works well to never have to type in a Password for a Local account only. Your Microsoft Account is an online account, and is checked on Microsoft s Servers. So, you can not remove it from your MS Account. 
This is for your security. The same reason Microsoft doesn't tell you about netplwiz. They want you to use a password so that no one can take over your computer and possibly lock you out of it.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

spunk.funk said:


> Yes the netplwiz trick works well to never have to type in a Password for a Local account only. Your Microsoft Account is an online account, and is checked on Microsoft s Servers. So, you can not remove it from your MS Account.
> This is for your security. The same reason Microsoft doesn't tell you about netplwiz. They want you to use a password so that no one can take over your computer and possibly lock you out of it.


Thanks for your input, as always. But is there some way one might ignore the fact of the microsoft account. We never had this 'force majeure' on any previous incarnations of Windows (except NT of course). I have/had no desire for the account, and certainly no further use for it, as I do not plan to purchase any (more) microsoft products. 

I am very conscious that some online sellers especially, force the creation of accounts in order for you to buy product. But I am also aware that more and more of them also now offer a "quick" checkout, which avoids all the enrolment. Granted this is usually provided you use PayPal, which gives them almost as much data as enrolment... but not quite. 
I do not object to having a force-enrolled microsoft account so much, as I do to having it interfere in my use of the product, if indeed it really needs to.

These guys at microsoft could use a healthy dose of Henry David Thoreau. He made some great discoveries when he spent two years in the nineteenth century living by a lake called Walden Pond. The book he wrote, entitled Walden, describes the beauty of nature and how much of a wonderful time he had. In that book, Thoreau says, “Simplify, simplify.” 

Truly a code to live up to. We seem to go through life exhausted, because we take on too many things (setting up Windows 10 Home anyone?) and bring too much complexity to our days as a result. We therefore don’t have time to enjoy the life we have left.


----------



## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

q_flestrin said:


> Thanks for your input, as always. But is there some way one might ignore the fact of the microsoft account. We never had this 'force majeure' on any previous incarnations of Windows (except NT of course). I have/had no desire for the account, and certainly no further use for it, as I do not plan to purchase any (more) microsoft products.
> 
> I am very conscious that some online sellers especially, force the creation of accounts in order for you to buy product. But I am also aware that more and more of them also now offer a "quick" checkout, which avoids all the enrolment. Granted this is usually provided you use PayPal, which gives them almost as much data as enrolment... but not quite.
> I do not object to having a force-enrolled microsoft account so much, as I do to having it interfere in my use of the product, if indeed it really needs to.
> ...


Simply switch the account from Microsoft to local.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

Stancestans said:


> Simply switch the account from Microsoft to local.


Love to. 
How?

Got increasing relevance now. The other Yoga (510) just finished upping itself to 1802 last evening, and the multiple "information" screens were far too much to take in for that time of night, so I shut it down. But I'm betting when I try to resume this afternoon, I get to resume this pantomime. The 710 updated itself to completion, but it was post 1802 out of the box.
It's been years since I ran Windows unfettered, for upgrades. Now the metered connection is turned off on these W10 units, there's no stopping it. It didn't seem as intrusive a process, as it was under '7 either.


----------



## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

q_flestrin said:


> Love to.
> How?


Here's how: https://www.thewindowsclub.com/change-microsoft-account-to-local-account-windows-10
This was easily found by searching microsoft account to local account
If you detest Google for some reason, simply use another search engine of your choice. If it's any good, it will lead you to the same stuff.



> Got increasing relevance now. The other Yoga (510) just finished upping itself to 1802 last evening, and the multiple "information" screens were far too much to take in for that time of night, so I shut it down. But I'm betting when I try to resume this afternoon, I get to resume this pantomime. The 710 updated itself to completion, but it was post 1802 out of the box.
> It's been years since I ran Windows unfettered, for upgrades. Now the metered connection is turned off on these W10 units, there's no stopping it. It didn't seem as intrusive a process, as it was under '7 either.


There is no 1802, ONLY 1803 and 1809 (latest as at now).


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

Stancestans said:


> Here's how: https://www.thewindowsclub.com/change-microsoft-account-to-local-account-windows-10
> This was easily found by searching microsoft account to local account
> If you detest Google for some reason, simply use another search engine of your choice. If it's any good, it will lead you to the same stuff.
> 
> ...


My thanks. No, I'm not a Google hater, just not as computer nimble as I used to be. And quite fed up about buying a system and then having to re-learn everything.... or so it seems to me.I cut my teeth and worked with Windows 3.1, after doing the same with firstly CP/M and then MSDOS.

1802 1803, all I know about it is the notifications I found decrying the upgrade.
Now 1865 I know,,, the end of the american civil war ;-) Studied that period for some time. A guy called Ambrose Bierce. What a mind he had!

New 1TB SSD landed today, from the US, but illness descended. Maybe tomorrow I'll make some progress with this.


----------



## joeten (Dec 4, 2008)

Lots of tips etc here https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-use-windows-10 for when you have the time or inclination your choice of course.


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Also linked in post *#23*


> you can switch to a Local Account.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

Thank you both. Much appreciated. 

Been working the Yoga 510 today. It says its finished the updates. You know because it suddenly goes to the desktop, no blank black screen. The older versions let you know where you'd got to. This one doesn't seem to bother.

Installed classic shell and Disk Manager (this Yoga has a 1TB HD, so it's needed). 
Then illness caught up to me and is getting even now.

Tomorrow, I hope the usb SSD board lands, because the SSD itself came in yesterday. I do have another board, which gives me M2 to normal SATA. That could go in the neat little IDE/SATA usb adapter I mentioned earlier, but I'd prefer the direct M2 to USB, if possible..









I'm going to use Paragon, as I've used it successfully to clone HDs before.
But please, if you think of anything else, be sure to tell me.


----------



## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

q_flestrin said:


> Thank you both. Much appreciated.
> 
> Been working the Yoga 510 today. It says its finished the updates. You know because it suddenly goes to the desktop, no blank black screen. The older versions let you know where you'd got to. This one doesn't seem to bother.
> 
> ...


IF Paragon is what you're familiar with then you don't need anything else, unless Paragon poses some limitations that will prevent the successful cloning of the HDD to SSD. Macrium Reflect Home or Business (both free) will do too, but the SSD may also ship with software supplied by its manufacturer for the same purpose, or a link to a free download of the said software. I wouldn't worry about the cloning part because you've got a lot of options. I hope the SATA-USB adapter is USB 3.0, else it will greatly slow down the cloning operation.


----------



## q_flestrin (Jan 12, 2019)

As always, a very apropos and pithy post. 

So I just tried Paragon 16, and it fell at the first hurdle. I got hold of an SSD USB enclosure. Analogous to our present-day HD enclosures And, believe it or not Paragon (16) took it upon itself to announce (at that point) that any clone on to my 1TB SSD would not be bootable if created on an SSD connected by USB. It would consider SATA-only connected SSD. What a dumb restriction!
Free Macrium seemed to have no similar difficulty.
We'll know sometime tomorrow (hopefully) when I go back into surgery and replace the original 256Gb SSD with this 'macrium cloned' one. 

In the meantime (and belatedly), I came up with quite a number of critical posts with respect to Paragon and this (and other) shortcomings in this respect. Paragon 15 worked so well, cloning my hard discs that it never occurred to me it would give us such a hard time over this. Easeus also offered a free ssd transfer program, but I stuck with your advice for macrium free.


----------



## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

> Paragon (16) took it upon itself to announce (at that point) that any clone on to my 1TB SSD would not be bootable if created on an SSD connected by USB


What that means is, once you have cloned your drive to the USB, you have to swap it with the internal Previous C: drive, if you leave in the the USB Dock, it will not boot the computer.


----------

