# Problems with Sapphire Radeon HD 6870



## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

To describe the problem I'm having, I'll just go over my experiences.

While playing games, everything will freeze for a few seconds, then the screen will go black, and then everything comes back. I've noticed this in Alice Madness Returns as well as Warcraft 3 (yes, 3... not WoW).

In Warcraft 3, sometimes after the screen goes black, the game is lost. There is no error or crash message. The game process is simply gone, and any unsaved progress while playing is lost as well.

Tonight I also noticed that this problem occurs while using the Warcraft 3 World Editor. I imagine the editor uses the same rendering drivers/engine to display the map preview. The difference this time is that sometimes after the screen goes black and comes back on, the display drivers seem to no longer be active*. Also, when attempting to start Warcraft 3 after this happens, I get an error saying that DirectX could not be initialized.

*Let me try to explain what I mean by "drivers not being active". If you've ever installed Windows and needed to install drivers for a graphics card, before actually installing the official drivers for a graphics card, you can still see what you are doing, but doing things like dragging a window across the screen are shown drawn onto the screen much more slowly. There are also other somewhat subtle effects that occur due to slow processing of the video or whatever. Anyway, that's pretty much what happens.

The only way to recover from this, as far as I know, is to reboot the system.


Now let me see what other helpful information I can share...

I've got the latest drivers for my video card.

I've played Portal 2 for countless hours without ever having this problem. Although, I haven't tried Portal 2 since first experiencing this problem, so perhaps I should try it and see if it does happen. Perhaps something changed since last I played Portal 2. I'll give it a shot.

I'm running Windows XP Pro SP2. It has been advised to me before that I go with SP3. I have had my reasons for sticking with SP2, but if I'm willing to go with SP3 if it'll fix the issues.

That's all I can think of right now. I'm gonna go ahead and see if SP3 will solve the problem. I doubt it will, but I'll try it. In the meantime, if anybody has any helpful info about this, I'd be very grateful to hear it.

If there is no getting around this, I'll have to contact Newegg and beg them to let me return it and get a different video card. The problem is, if I do that I'd pretty much have to get a new motherboard, too... and I can explain why, but it isn't really relevant to the problem.


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## Johnny1982 (Oct 15, 2010)

Post full PC specs incl. PSU Make/Model/Wattage

EDIT: Sorry picked it up on your "My System" tab.

Please post temps and volts from the BIOS or HWMonitor.
Personally I think your PSU is a little under-powered for the HD6870, you should at least be running with 750w or more for that rig.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

It's all there under "My System" under my name to the left.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

Please confirm the hardware listed in your 'My System' is current.



> While playing games, everything will freeze for a few seconds, then the screen will go black, and then everything comes back.


Do you mean the game resets itself? Or the computer crashes to desktop? or does it fully reboot? 

If the game is simply resetting, that would imply either a problem in the app itself or possibly a driver conflict. Freezing, followed by a hard reboot usually means a hardware problem; most likely either overheating or a power problem.



> The problem is, if I do that (get a different video card) I'd pretty much have to get a new motherboard, too.


This implies you suspect an existing hardware problem with your motherboard. Please explain.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

> Please confirm the hardware listed in your 'My System' is current.


Yes. It is current. I just got the motherboard, CPU, RAM, GPU, and primary hard drive a couple of months ago from Newegg.



> Do you mean the game resets itself? Or the computer crashes to desktop? or does it fully reboot?


It freezes for a few seconds. Screen goes black for a few seconds, and then I'm back in the game as if nothing happened and I can continue to play. Occasionally I am not returned to the game and am taken back to the desktop instead, with the game no longer running at all. This doesn't happen quite as often, but it still happens.



> This implies you suspect an existing hardware problem with your motherboard. Please explain.


No. Nothing like that. If the problem exists with the 6xxx series of Radeon cards, then I don't want to simply get another 6xxx series Radeon. Since it is already the highest in their lineup of cards, the only non-6xxx Radeon cards I could get would be a downgrade. I do not wish to downgrade. Because of this, I would probably opt to get an nVidia card. This is fine, except that I would like to use SLI at some point, and my motherboard supports CrossfireX, not SLI. If I got an nVidia graphics card for the purpose of using SLI with an additional nVidia graphics card, I would have to get an SLI certified compatible motherboard in order to do so. As you can see, my reasons are not directly related to the problem at hand, but this things may have to happen if I cannot find a fix.


Before this 6870 I have always used GeForce cards. I decided to give Radeon a try because this card has a 5-egg rating on Newegg and based on the price and the crossfire support of the motherboard I had already picked out, it seemed to be perfectly reasonable. However, if there is no solution for this problem I am having, this will likely be the last ATI/Radeon product I ever purchase.

Let's try for a solution, though.


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## Johnny1982 (Oct 15, 2010)

As per post #2: Please post voltages from the BIOS.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

Alright, that's pointing at failure of the gpu and/or the driver. Only while under load?

There could still be an underlying problem, elsewhere, so let's see a listing of the voltages (+5, +3.3 and +12) and temperatures (CPU and GPU) while at idle and under load. Access system BIOS and look for a Hardware Monitor section. This will give you the most accurate idle readings, which you can then use to test the accuracy of your preferred software monitor.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Johnny1982 said:


> Post full PC specs incl. PSU Make/Model/Wattage
> 
> EDIT: Sorry picked it up on your "My System" tab.
> 
> ...



It's getting pretty late here, so I'll check for any temp readings in BIOS when I wake up.


Also, this is from the System Requirements section of the AMD website for the Radeon HD 6870:


> 500 Watt or greater power supply with two 75W 6-pin PCI Express® power connectors recommended (600 Watt and four 6-pin connectors for AMD CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode)


What are your reasons for saying that a 650 Watt PSU is underpowered?


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## Johnny1982 (Oct 15, 2010)

Usually we take the cards requirements and add an extra 40% to that value making yours come up to 700w. It might run on that PSU, but there are other components in the PC that need power too. 

We have helped numerous people using what the requirements are for their card and end up destroying their PSU and/or other components as a result of under-powering.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Understood. However... do you believe that my 650w PSU could be the reason for the problem that I am experiencing and asking for help with?


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## Johnny1982 (Oct 15, 2010)

That's why we need the voltages from the BIOS.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Here is the HWmonitor readout without any game running.










Here's the readout while Warcraft 3 was running.










I need to reboot now for a Windows update so I'll see what readouts I can get from BIOS.

Okay, here it is:









Since I've never really learned much about how voltages affect hardware function (aside from minor overclocking stuff), if you could explain to me what you're looking for and how this could affect my system and this problem that I'm having, that'd be great.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

All electronics are primarily dependent on stable, clean power. A supply voltage which is too high can damage components; too low and the circuits can become unstable and fail. Also, a supply voltage which is constantly changing or has a lot of high frequency noise can cause problems

By spec, ATX power supplies have a tolerance of +/- 5% of nominal (0.6 volts on the 12 volt line). Personally, (and this is only personal not spec) I like to see the supplies no more than 2% away from nominal. 

Now in your case your 3.3v sits at about -1% ; the 5v at -3%; the 12v line varies from about +2% to -0.25%. All within spec. 

Note that when under load, the 12 volt line on all supplies will usually dip by a few points. If it dips by a lot, that could point to a problem.

Now, all this being said, your supply voltages look good. Still, this does not eliminate the supply as the underlying problem. If it is possible, could you borrow another for testing?

By the way, did you test with Portal 2? What happened?


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

gcavan said:


> Now, all this being said, your supply voltages look good. Still, this does not eliminate the supply as the underlying problem. If it is possible, could you borrow another for testing?
> 
> By the way, did you test with Portal 2? What happened?


I have no idea who I'd borrow one from... well, I do know someone who always has a bunch of extra PC parts lying around, but I don't know if he has one of such high voltage.

Tell me... based on what you know already about my problem, what is the percent of possibility that a higher wattage power supply would solve the issue? 

I forgot about testing Portal 2. I'll have to give that a try.

For some reason, I no longer see an option for editing my existing post.

Anyway, I just played Portal 2 for about 45 minutes with absolutely no problems at all.

It must be a specific driver feature or function that certain games use.

Hmmmm... so now I learn that the board only allows you to edit a post within 15 minutes after posting it. Well, okay... then I guess I have to just add a new post every time I have additional information.


Just tested the first American McGee's Alice game for a while... after playing for about 10 or 15 minutes, it glitched just like the others. I can continue to try other games, but it's rather tedious, since I don't know how to forcefully trigger it. The only way to test it is to just play for a while and see if it happens.

I'm sorry to quadruple-post, but is anybody still helping me with this issue? Are you guys waiting for me to do something?


I was looking for more support and found a hotfix for the Catalyst drivers that include these features:

*AMD Catalyst™ Driver 11.5b Hotfix Features:*

* Includes performance optimizations and resolves various quality issues for the upcoming release of Brink™
* Resolves transcoding video lagging issues seen when converting multiple H.264 clips to MPEG2 Blu-ray video
* Resolves the intermittent mouse cursor lag issue seen by some users
** Resolves intermittent flickering issues seen in the following applications in a system using an AMD Radeon™ HD 6000 series graphics card with DDR3 memory and running in DirectX® 9 mode:*
o Civilization 5
o Dead Rising 2
o Fallout 3
o Mafia 2
o NBA 2010
o ShenGuiChuanQi
o Starcraft 2
* o Warcraft III*
o World of Warcraft
* Support for additional Stereo 3D-capable displays:
o Viewsonic V3D241wm-LED
o 3D Projectors
* Enables AMD CrossFire™ scaling for Brink
* Enables AMD CrossFire scaling for The Witcher 2
* Improves performance for Dirt 3

This might be the fix I need. I'll install the hotfix and run the game for a while to see if the problem occurs again or not. I hope this fixes it! This would be amazing!

It didn't.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Is there a reason nobody is responding to me in this thread any more? I thought you guys were trying to help me.

Anyway, I thought I'd add that additional problems have been showing up lately.

For instance, I've been noticing that my desktop display keeps going into 16 bit color mode instead of 32. Then, when I switch it back to 32 bit mode, I get a strange article on my screen.

See here:









Even as I was typing this, I switched from 16 bit to 32 bit and those boxes of distorted pixels showed up over my browser window. It shows up over just about any window. It's generally in the same area every time so far, but not in the exact same spot each time. So far it's always been the same size, I believe.

It's not _always _there when I'm in 32 bit mode... but I have only noticed it when I am.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

Excuse me for not responding earlier. I didn't mean to hang you out to dry, but I really had nothing to add. 

As I understood it, the symptoms seemed to only appear with a certain few applications, only. This would usually point to a conflict between the application and a hardware driver. 

But now, with it showing up in Windows and/or your browser, I'm thinking a memory problem (could be system or video ram). 

Couple things to try:
Run Memtest on each DIMM of system memory.
Are you able to test using onboard graphics or with a back-up graphics card?


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

> This would usually point to a conflict between the application and a hardware driver.


Well this is what I had thought... until feedback from multiple sources about multiple problems (not all listed on this thread) seemed to point to a possible faulty power supply. I'll be testing a new PSU soon.



> I'm thinking a memory problem (could be system or video ram).


That's what my friend thought when she saw the pixel distortions on the screen... I suppose it wouldn't be too difficult to run tests on the RAM.



> Are you able to test using onboard graphics or with a back-up graphics card?


No I do not.



One major reason I'm leaning toward a possible faulty power supply is because there is a problem that occurs somewhat at random... and rarely. It's a problem that happened before I rebuilt my system, and one of the few things I did NOT replace was the power supply.

I suppose I could try to explain that other problem.

It started like this.... one day I booted my system, and when Windows started, the resolution was very low and none of the graphics drivers were working. Trying to reinstall them failed. I use Rollback RX, so I simply rolled back to the day before. Didn't help. Went back another day... no good. I had to go back at least two weeks before I was able to boot normally.

Back then I rarely rebooted my system, so I thought the only reason that reverting to those earlier system states would be that the corruption took place before those states were created, but I just hadn't rebooted to notice.

Anyway, after rebuilding my system, I figured I wouldn't have that problem. Before, I had an nVidia card, and now I have a Radeon. Then it happened. At this point it was clear to me that it couldn't have been a graphics driver issue because why would it happen to both types of cards? This time I had to roll back only about 5 days, but this time was different. I HAD rebooted... in fact, I rebooted several times, because within those 5 days I had done lots of windows updates, and each boot was fine.

At this point I suspected that Rollback may not be working properly, although I didn't truly believe that. I have lots of faith in that software. Still, though, I contacted Rollback and explained the issue, and they suspected that such behavior could be a power management issue... which strongly reinforced all the things that have been said here about voltage and power being the problem.

Two separate issues... both pointing to power management... I think I need to obtain a new power supply to test with, which I am currently working on getting.

In the meantime, I'll still do memory tests and keep the thread updated on any updates.

I apologize in advance for multiple posts in a row. Since I'm unable to edit posts after 15 mins... well...

I'm back. I spent a long time simply not playing the games and stuff that would have the "video crash" that I described early in this thread. I recently began playing FEAR 3 and this crash occurred 5 minutes into campaign mode and also resulted in a BSOD.

Having no other direction to take, I found an affordable 850w PSU on Amazon and am waiting for it to arrive within the next couple of days.

One of the things that makes me so anxious about the situation, though, is that even when I install it, I don't really have a solid way of testing it. See, the other day FEAR 3 crashed 5 mins into the game, but I tried again yesterday and I got through the entire first mission/level and it only had the video glitch once, but didn't boot me from the game or anything else. I could play for a long time without the issue occurring, but that doesn't mean it won't later... so I'm not really sure how to test it properly.

I'm going to keep trying a few things. If anybody has any ideas, please let me know. I must tackle this situation.


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## CEM (Jan 5, 2011)

Also let's wait your PSU might be a solution for you.

850 watt is good for game.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

I played FEAR again, and turned on the broadcast to see if it would glitch again. It did. A few times... within minutes of starting. So I turned on the HWmonitor to see if I can notice anything odd happening when this happens... and then.. it just didn't glitch again. I got through the entire next mission and even started the mission over again and played for a while and not once did it glitch. Why? I don't get it.

Well, I have about 30 days to test to see if the power supply is actually the issue because that is the limit for returning it... then again, at the price I found, I might as well just keep it anyway.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Well, I received my new PSU today and got it installed. Bad news. I still get the glitch. It happened while playing Warcraft III.

So now what do I do? I need to find the culprit.

Again, I hate to keep stacking posts, but for some reason this forum disallows editing after a time.

Here's a copy of the BSOD that I got while playing FEAR 3. I do notice an ATI file referenced there. Perhaps using this information we can find what's causing the problem. Perhaps it's the video card drivers after all... but if so, it's not like they're going to give me my money back.










I've posted this as a video card problem in the hardware section, but since I really don't know what's causing it I'm starting fresh here. A lot of research I did led me to believe it might be caused by a faulty power supply, but I replaced that yesterday and still had the problem, so I'm back to the drawing board. :4-dontkno

So here's what happens. When I play some games, at some random time the computer will completely freeze for a few seconds. Then the screens (I have two) will go black and then come back on (a lot like if you were to change screen resolution settings in Windows).

When the video comes back on, usually everything resumes as normal, but sometimes some manner of oddity occurs. Here are some things that have happened after the screens go blank and come back on:

- The game I was playing is gone (just no longer running, no error message)
- Video graphics drivers malfunction, including DirectX failure (requires reboot)
- BSOD (has only happened once, and I was playing FEAR 3)
- Game switches from windowed mode to full screen mode by itself (has only happened while playing Stepmania)
- I am left with a strange rectangular region of pixelated artifacts.

Please keep in mind that these things do not always happen, but HAVE happened at one point or another, making them worth mentioning. MOST of the time the game resumes normally.

Here are some games/etc I've experienced this in so far:

- Warcraft III
- Warcraft III World Editor
- American McGee's Alice
- Alice Madness Returns
- FEAR 3

As a side note, this glitch is particularly irritating while playing Warcraft III in LAN mode with friends, as each player is only allowed to save the game's progress ONE time, meaning a lot of progress is lost if this glitch kicks me out of the game.

Here is a copy of the BSOD I mentioned:









Here is an example of the rectangular region of artifacts:









Here's a link to the original thread in the video card hardware section:
http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f24/problems-with-sapphire-radeon-hd-6870-a-583543.html

Nearly all of the hardware in my computer is new and is listed in "My System" under my name. The only difference would be the power supply, which I replaced yesterday with a brand new Kingwin 850 watt unit in attempt to resolve the issue. I'll update my profile soon.

I cannot afford to buy any replacement parts to switch out and test everything. It would be ideal if we can somehow pin-point the source of the issue without having to do so.

Oh yeah, and I've run scans with Malwarebytes and avast and have found nothing.


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## aciid (Jul 18, 2008)

*Re: Computer hangs, then screens go black and come back during games*

Hi vertigoelectrix,

The file in this case refers to the ATI display driver, which may be wrong/outdated/damaged. If you could please extract the dumpfile from C:\Windows\Minidump\ to your next post so that we can have a further look at it.

As a general thought I would advise you to boot into Safemode with Networking (Press F8 during startup) and see if the problem persists still there.

And aswell uninstall your graphics driver > Reboot > Download latest driver from ATI's webpage.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Computer hangs, then screens go black and come back during games*

Thanks for the response.

I don't have a Windows\Minidump folder or file anywhere. I even did a search. It doesn't exist. Hidden and system files are visible as well. It's not there.

I can TRY the Safe Mode approach, but this glitch only occurs when I am playing games, and it's highly unlikely that the games will be able to run in Safe Mode, thus making it impossible to test. Like I said, though, I can try. The other 'problem' with testing in Safe Mode is that, even if I get a game to run, there's no sure way to test it. I can play a game for hours without a problem, but then suddenly it will happen. The other day I played FEAR 3 for less than a minute before it glitched out on me. I played again later and I got through an entire level without a problem. I can't find a pattern. The only thing I know is that it only happens with games.

You can probably imagine how annoying this problem is.

As a side note, when I first started noticing this problem, I made sure I had my graphics drivers up to date. I just updated them again yesterday, so I haven't had much chance to tell if the problem still exists, but I will try playing some games today to see if I still have the problem. (I actually haven't been able to get FEAR3 to run at all since yesterday, which is annoying, but I can try other games).


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## DT Roberts (Jun 22, 2009)

*Re: Computer hangs, then screens go black and come back during games*

Hello and welcome to Microsoft Support.



vertigoelectric said:


> I don't have a Windows\Minidump folder or file anywhere. I even did a search. It doesn't exist. Hidden and system files are visible as well. It's not there.


Follow these instructions to enable dump logging: Set MiniDump

From the picture, bugcheck 0x8E (0xc0000005,,,) is a memory access violation, often caused by a conflict between a driver and application as you seem to have figured out already. Have you noticed any other bugchecks? 

We're going to need the information from here: http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...-instructions-windows-7-and-vista-452654.html

Personally I would wait and force a few crashes before following the instructions so that it will capture the minidumps, but you're welcome to attach the output then other crashes as they occur. 

Hope we can help, and please don't hesitate to "stack posts". The more information we can gather, the closer we'll get to figuring this out. Good luck.

Devin


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Computer hangs, then screens go black and come back during games*

Thanks. Those instructions say they are for Windows 7 and Vista. Will they still apply to my Windows XP setup? I'll check it out.

"Forcing" the crashes, as I said before, is not easy to do. I never know when they are going to happen... only that they happen during games (and not ALL games, either. For example, it has NEVER happened to me while playing Portal 2, and I played countless hours of that). The only thing I can really do is start playing games that it has happened in before and wait to see if it happens again. I suppose the positive side to that is that I get to play a game while I wait rather than sit and be bored. It's just time consuming. I'll do whatever it takes to get this fixed, though.

Okay, I just set my system up for the Minidump. One thing, though. Of all the times this problem has happened to me over the course of a few months, it has only resulted in a BSOD *one time*. If the minidump relies on BSOD information in order to be helpful, then the chances of being able get that information are very, very slim.


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## DT Roberts (Jun 22, 2009)

*Re: Computer hangs, then screens go black and come back during games*

Oh, I didn't realize that you're running XP. This is going to be a bit tougher than I expected :grin:

The instructions aren't valid for XP, so disregard those links. Instead, follow these instructions to enable dump logging on XP: How to configure Windows to create MiniDump files on BSOD

We will at least need some BSOD dumps to really get going over here. Meanwhile, I suggest you consider an upgrade to Windows 7 :tongue:

Devin


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Computer hangs, then screens go black and come back during games*

You must have been typing while I was adding an edit to my post. Here:

"Okay, I just set my system up for the Minidump. One thing, though. Of all the times this problem has happened to me over the course of a few months, it has only resulted in a BSOD *one time*. If the minidump relies on BSOD information in order to be helpful, then the chances of being able get that information are very, very slim. "

Anyway, I have had reasons for sticking with Windows XP, although with my newly built system, Windows 7 might be the way to go after all. Know any way I can get it super, super cheap or free (legally)? As for now, I still need this to be fixed in Windows XP.


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## DT Roberts (Jun 22, 2009)

*Re: Computer hangs, then screens go black and come back during games*

Unless provided by an institution or corporation, I don't know of a way to get Windows 7too cheaply. You may want to look at this article if you're considering upgrading: Seven perfectly legal ways to get Windows 7 cheap (or even free) | ZDNet

I'll get back to you about the whole minidump thing; time to get back to class :laugh:

In the meantime, you may want to look through *Event Viewer* and take note of any strange errors you see in the system event errors. Help here if you're interested: How To Use Event Viewer


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Computer hangs, then screens go black and come back during games*

Thanks for reminding me about the Event Viewer. I had it open yesterday and looked for "application" errors, and I was gonna go look through "system" errors and I forgot to. I'll do that now.

Somehow that article sounds familiar to me. Unless it was written within the past couple of months, I think I may have already read it.


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## DT Roberts (Jun 22, 2009)

From what I see: 
The issue is always graphical
There doesn't seem to be any freezing
The video card hasn't been properly tested to rule it out as an issue

I have never before encountered a problem with a PSU without very random crashing, freezing or BSOD's. They don't necessarily happen when the system is under heavy load. 

I suggest that you follow these instructions to truly stress test the card: FurMark

Also, I'd like you to try this one which is an actual test of the video memory: https://simtk.org/project/xml/downloads.xml?group_id=385

Let us know the results. Best of luck.

Devin


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

I will try FurMark and the other link as well. Also, today my computer did freeze. Not really following with the same formula as normal, while playing Stepmania the computer froze (although the song continued until it was over), and I had to reset the machine.

On a lighter note, I have found Stepmania to be the closest thing to a consistent testing environment. I can almost guarantee that a crash will occur within several minutes of playing the game, consistently, which ought to make it easier to test later.


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## DT Roberts (Jun 22, 2009)

Freezes like you mentioned - especially with the sound continuing - doesn't seem like a power supply freeze at all, but instead a graphical error at it's purest. If it was the PSU or motherboard, I'd expect the entire system to freeze.

Good to know about *Stepmania*. We can keep that in mind for the future.

Devin


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Well I thought I had mentioned this, but I replaced the PSU with a brand new 850 watt unit, and that didn't solve anything.


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

vertigoelectric said:


> I've got the latest drivers for my video card.
> 
> I'm running Windows XP Pro SP2. It has been advised to me before that I go with SP3. I have had my reasons for sticking with SP2, but if I'm willing to go with SP3 if it'll fix the issues.


If the above info from post #1 is still true as of your last post -- you are running 2011 video device drivers with 2001 - 2004 Microsoft XP OS drivers. This is a definite recipe for *0x8e (0xc0000005,,,)* bugcheck BSODs, assuming stable hardware platform.

*0x8e* = kernel threw an exception; *0xc0000005* = memory access violation. Could be hardware; if it is software related, the memory access violation exception is likely occurring due to driver conflicts over memory addressing issues or drivers improperly accessing memory.

All outstanding Windows Updates, including XP SP3 should to be installed to reduce the likelihood of driver conflicts.



vertigoelectric said:


> I just got the motherboard, CPU, RAM, GPU, and primary hard drive a couple of months ago from Newegg....


- Are you running OEM or full retail version XP Pro?
- Did you reinstall XP Pro after the new hardware?

Validate XP Pro OS - Genuine Microsoft Software




vertigoelectric said:


> Before this 6870 I have always used GeForce cards.


Did you ever experience BSODs w/ NVIDIA video card(s)?

I have seen poorly written ATI drivers cause BSODs for years now. IMO, NVIDIA driver developers far surpass their ATI counterparts.


​Please be sure to follow the instructions provided by DT Roberts

Please run Speccy - Download Speccy 1.12.265 - FileHippo.com
- "File" | "Publish Snapshot" | Paste URL into your next post 

Regards. . . 

jcgriff2

`
​*p.s. * Should you want to try Windows 7. . . 

Download the 90-day trial Windows 7 Enterprise Edition ISO *x86* from Microsoft TechNet; burn to DVD-R with ImgBurn

Wipe the HDD with KillDisk - Format HDD - sysnative.com - MVP

Install Windows 7 onto the newly-formatted HDD.​​


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

This is my first ATI card. I've always used Nvidia before without any problems. I thought I'd give ATI a try.

I'm not pleased. I'll never buy an ATI card again. I have a problem, though. I planned ahead when I chose my motherboard and got one with multiple PCIe slots so that I could use multiple graphics cards later on (like I used to with my old computer). I saw that my board has amazing support for CrossfireX for the ATI cards. What I DID NOT know, was that it has absolutely NO support for SLI. So, if I did get rid of my ATI card and go with an Nvidia card, I would never be able to use SLI as long as I had this motherboard... so I pretty much would have to just buy a whole new system.


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

I agree with you & would not be pleased, either.

I wish you the best of luck. 

Regards. . .

jcgriff2

`


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

You might want to try Win7 and the win 7 drivers, they're not spending a lot of time developing XP drivers any more for newer cards.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Now suddenly I'm having trouble viewing this forum properly. Page 1 of this thread is fine, pages 2 and 3 are stretched horizontally but A LOT... and I can't figure out why.


Anyway, while installing Windows 7 might be a good move in the long run, for now I don't really see it as much of a reasonable "fix" for this problem I'm having. It's kinda like taking an old car to the shop and the mechanic suggesting I just buy a new car and I won't have to deal with the problems. At any rate, I can't afford it.

Let's see if maybe we can get this fixed in Windows XP.

I'm running Furmark tests tonight and then Memtest86 afterward. I'll post the results.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The better analogy would be buying a new Porsche then putting old Bias Ply tires on it and saying it doesn't handle correctly......................


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Is this forum only broken for me? The layout is messed up and some of the page elements are stretched a LOT. I inspected an element of this thread with Firebug and it told me it's 7935555 pixels wide. Viewing the forum is going to be a pain until this is fixed.

It's not just this forum page that's broken. A specific reply I received in one conversation in gmail produces the same glitchy results in my browser as this thread does. Stretches the width of elements many thousands of pixels. Only that particular reply. Any other part of that conversation, as long as that part is not open, displays normally.

I seemed to get a lot of push near the beginning of this topic to make sure my Windows service pack and updates were all up to date. Back then I updated rarely and was deliberately sticking to SP2. It worked for me, and I saw little reason to update aside from the possibility of fixing this one problem I started this topic about. Well, for the record, it didn't fix this problem, and I run into a lot more problems now that I'm "up to date" than I did before. Coincidence? I don't know. All I know is that my overall computer-using experience is more problematic now than it was before I did all the microsoft updates people kept telling me I needed to do.

I'm reaching the point where I don't even enjoy using my computer any more. I am having so many random problems with almost everything I try to do, it's just stressful.

I don't even know how to explain a lot of this stuff that is happening because it's so senseless and weird. For example, this thread and one gmail message don't display correctly. Some elements get stretched hundreds of thousands of pixels wide, and table elements get shifted off to the side, and text is invisible (but underlines for spelling mistakes and links are still there). I can go on about all kinds of things, but I won't here. Oh, and none of the problems appear to be related in any way, shape or form. Another problem I'm having is that my web host suddenly won't display public directory listings. This link: http://snaps.vertigofx.com/ should display a public directory listing of images. All of the sudden today it stopped working. Now I get some kind of server error. This obviously isn't related to my computer since it's hosted elsewhere, and I'm sure my hosting provider can get it fixed for me after a simple phonecall, but the point is... it's always one thing after the next for me.

I'm unbelievably frustrated.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Roll back the ATI driver to the oldest your card will run and see if it make a difference.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Long story short, I did a Windows Repair yesterday which essentially performed a reinstall of Windows XP. Only a few core programs remained installed. It wasn't intentional, but that's irrelevant.

So I re-installed a few of my programs and tested for the graphics glitch by running Stepmania. I ran it all night while sleeping and when I came back I saw it glitch again. Just happened to do so right after I got back. The VPU Recover box came up after the glitch.

I had previously just installed Windowblinds and probably a few other things, so I rolled back my system and made sure to remove windowblinds and did some more testing with Stepmania. It still glitched.

This is all I have installed as of the last glitch occurrence:










I'll roll back my system more and try running more tests but honestly I'm near the point of simply calling the vendor or manufacturer of the Radeon. Maybe if I push hard enough I can get a refund on the thing and buy an NVidia card like I should have in the first place.

Still open to more ideas if any of you have any.


Oh yeah, and just as a bit of added info, I contacted Sapphire about this issue weeks ago and haven't heard anything back from them. I swear by all that I am that I will never, EVER purchase an ATI card again.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Did you ever try the older Video driver?


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Should I just try the one that came on the disc with the card?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Depends on what version it is, start with the oldest that supports the card.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

I'm not sure where to find that... hmmmm...

in the meantime, could you explain to me your thought process as to how an older driver might help?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Start with the 10.12 driver, the latest ATI drivers are having quite a few different issues on Win7, I'm thinking XP would be no different. 
Previous Catalyst


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Thank you. I'll try these out when I get a chance later this weekend. We're going out for the rest of the day for my wife's birthday.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

And she let you on the computer this long?:laugh:


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

All according to schedule. No harm done.

In the morning what I'll do is use the ATI driver removal tool to be sure to get rid of any trace of the current driver... then install the old one you have a link for.

Say it does solve that problem, though. Then what? Would it really be okay for me to continue using an outdated driver?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

If it still does it on the older driver, at that point I would RMA or return the card.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Yes, but my question was... what if using the older driver *works*? Well I guess I could... just try. I'm getting awfully discouraged, though.

They responded to my email and sent me an RMA form as well as a copy of their warranty information. It says they do not do refunds. I'd only be able to send it in for a repair/replacement, and honestly that doesn't interest me. I want my money back for this piece of garbage that I never should have bought in the first place.

At this point I'm not sure what to do.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

If the older driver works, use it, the next driver may fix the issue your having, a refund would have to come from the retailer.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Yeah, well the problem is that by the time I began noticing the problem and narrowed it down to a video card issue, it was long past the deadline for a NewEgg return. I've been considering contacting NewEgg to see if maybe... just maybe... they'd make an exception. I guess the worst they can say is 'no'.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Was the issue there from the beginning and you didn't notice it, or it worked fine for awhile and then started?


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

I'm pretty sure it was there to begin with. There is no evidence to show that something I did or changed caused it to start happening.

The main reason I didn't notice it was because right after I bought all of my new PC parts, I spent almost all of my gaming time playing Portal 2. The problem has NEVER happened while playing Portal 2. Once I began to start playing other games, I began noticing it, and even then I didn't realize it was a video card related issue.

Newegg support was unable to offer me a refund, but they did say as a courtesy they will discount $15 from my next purchase. I'm actually shopping for a comparable Nvidia card now. Can't afford it yet, but I want to see how much I'm going to have to spend. Looks like I can get a GTX 560 Ti, after a mail-in rebate, for about the same price I paid for the Radeon. The GTX also comes with a free copy of Batman Arkham Asylum, so maybe if I can find a friend who is interested in that game, I could sell that game to them to go toward the cost of the card. All in all, though, I'm still looking at $250 up front before I can do anything.


Getting an Nvidia card would present a future problem as well. My motherboard supports CrossFireX for Radeon cards, but it does not support SLI for Nvidia cards. See, I didn't know this when I chose the motherboard. So, later on if/when I decide to get a 2nd Nvidia card, I can't use SLI on them unless I replace the motherboard... which probably means replacing the CPU and RAM as well... and I've only had it all for about 6 months.

I suppose I could look into finding a way to enable SLI on this motherboard. If I could do that, it would save me lots of stress and money in the long run. I read a thread about it before in which someone mentioned that doing such a thing is "illegal". Bull crap. Even if that's true, it'd be so stupid I wouldn't even care.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

SLI support is licensed technology from Nvidia, if the board manufacturer wants SLI support they have to pay the license fee which of course gets passed on to the end user in the purchase price, Intel boards the X58 in particular had a bios update on one model to allow SLI after the agreement was reached and Nvidia announced they were not pursuing the Intel platform after the 775 socket and allowed licensing to Intel chipsets.
A couple of months ago I would have told you you'll never see SLI on a AMD/ATI chipset, but just to prove you can't predict the future I ran across this under features on a Gigabyte 990 AMD board the other day


> 4 way SLI and 4 way CrossFireX


 > Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD7 AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

It looks like there is an SLI patch that can get SLI to work on motherboards that do not natively support it. I'm going to look into this further. However, it will be a long time before I ever need to go SLI... and maybe it won't even be with this machine... but it's good to know the possibility is out there. In the mean time, I'm going to try to figure out a way to get money out of this Radeon trash I paid for.

Wrench, let me get your opinion here. If you were stuck in the same situation I am in now, what would YOU do? What would your next step be (aside from testing that older driver, which I might still do... but assuming that doesn't help...)?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

RMA the card and retry, if you still aren't satisfied sell it on Craigs list, keep the box and packaging in case you have to ship it. At least you'll recover some if not most of the cash.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

When all is said and done, the only thing I can think of is that there is some kind of defect with the card itself (in my case, at least), and my only reasonable option is to send it back to the company for repair.

I don't believe the problem is with my operating system. I've been using Windows XP for many years and this is the first video card that has given me problems. I do not have another operating system to test with, and I would like to continue using Windows XP anyway, so changing operating systems isn't currently an option. Sapphire is the name of the vendor.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Download drive sweeper (link below) and run. Remove any Ati entries. Go here:ATI Radeon for the latest Ati Catalyst download and install. I would also run Memtest and make several passes on each stick of ram separetly as stop meassages can be memory related.

Driver Sweeper: Guru3D - Driver Sweeper
Memtest:Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Follow my advice first and only flash the BIOS if absolutely necessary A bad flash will render your motherboard as a big paperweight. I also advise to stay out of the registry unless you are trained in making changes. A incorrect registry change can have adverse effects.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

First off we would have to know what Bios version you currently have.
Secondly there is not a Bios update listed to fix any Graphic card issues so that would make it a mute point.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

As suggested by Team Mates Amd_Man & wrench97. ^^


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Whoa, look at all the post activity all of the sudden. Cool.



Amd_Man said:


> Download drive sweeper (link below) and run. Remove any Ati entries. Go here:ATI Radeon for the latest Ati Catalyst download and install. I would also run Memtest and make several passes on each stick of ram separetly as stop meassages can be memory related.
> 
> Driver Sweeper: Guru3D - Driver Sweeper
> Memtest:Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool


I don't get any STOP errors or blue screen crashes. The only thing that comes up (unless I have it suppressed in ATI Catalyst options), is the VPU Recovery message box. The system doesn't crash. (Technically, I did get a blue screen ONCE, I believe, but only once out of the many, many times that these video card related problems have occurred. It was probably a coincidental conflict with something else at the time.)




Amd_Man said:


> Follow my advice first and only flash the BIOS if absolutely necessary A bad flash will render your motherboard as a big paperweight. I also advise to stay out of the registry unless you are trained in making changes. A incorrect registry change can have adverse effects.


I have been troubleshooting Windows systems and modifying registry entries for many years. If a registry edit is really necessary, I'm fully capable of it.



wrench97 said:


> First off we would have to know what Bios version you currently have.
> Secondly there is not a Bios update listed to fix any Graphic card issues so that would make it a mute point.


I believe you mean "moot" point =]



I can try some of the things you guys suggested, but I've already tried multiple ATI drivers and all kinds of other things. I explained everything to Sapphire Tech Support (the Radeon vendor), and they said "_Your card is clearly having hardware issue, if there is something we can do to avoid having you send this card back, we would have done so already_..."


I wish I'd had the opportunity to rebuild my system with Nvidia hardware.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

It's always best to remove any and all traces of the previous driver(s) to avoid a possible conflict with the new driver. Nvidia has plenty of issues too so it's not just Amd/Ati.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Yes, I've tried that, though.

I pretty much just haven't been playing games on my PC a lot lately. Although, the problem did occur not long ago while playing Portal 2. Before that, I played countless hours of Portal 2 without any problems. The fact that the problem finally occurred during this game leads me to believe that it very well could be a hardware issue with the card that might possibly be getting worse.


I get this:











Well, then, if it's a software problem, then good. We can fix it. But so far, nobody has been able to.

As far as switching to Windows 7, that's not even a reasonable solution. First of all, I can't afford it. Secondly, I don't WANT Windows 7. I like Windows XP.

Suggesting a whole new operating system just to get rid of a problem with the video card is not reasonable. Imagine if your bathroom drain got plugged up and you asked a plumber for help. What if he just suggested you go get a new house? That wouldn't make any sense. That's not reasonable at all. You just want the drain fixed.

Likewise, I want this problem fixed. I don't want to dish out a couple hundred bucks (that I don't have anyway) for an operating system I don't want... just to get rid of a problem I'm not even guaranteed it will get rid of.

So, I really, really do appreciate your help, and if you have other [free] suggestions I can try, I'd love to hear them, but I'm tired of people telling me to switch operating systems. It's not an option.

Also, the vendor themselves said that all of this sounds like a hardware problem, and not a software problem. What do they have to gain by lying?

Still, if you have new software fixes I can try that don't cost me money or change my whole system, then I'd like to keep trying.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

The reason you may not be getting much help is you are failing to follow some key advice. Your card is much newer than the service pack that you're running. As suggested alot earlier you should update to service pack 3. If you're not willing to follow advice then it's unlikely we can resolve your issue. You may not to want to update to service pack 3 for certain reasons but it is a must if you expect to run a error free pc.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

I have tried new drivers, old drivers, no drivers, etc. Any drivers I use have the same result. Nothing fixes the problem.

I feel like I'm being treated like an idiot here. I don't think Windows 7 is difficult to use at all. I just simply do not like it. I've been using PC computers since DOS and Windows 3.1 were mainstream. Difficulty isn't a factor here. It's preference. This hardware is supposed to work with Windows XP, so I expect it to.

I am not home right now but when I can I will retrieve that information you're asking for.

Also, how are you 100% sure that this is a software issue and not a problem with the card's hardware itself? Do you have any evidence or information to back this up?


I've followed every piece of advice from this thread except for installing Windows 7. *I HAVE tried upgrading to service pack 3*. One, _it didn't fix the problem with the Radeon_. Two, I ended up having _*more *_problems with my computer with SP3 installed than I did with SP2, so I reverted. Service pack 2 so far has not given me any problems at all, with either hardware or software.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Not to beat a dead horse, but what issues did you have with SP3?
I ask because there may be a underlying hardware reason the SP caused problems, anything from a device conflict to a failing piece of hardware.

Other then sound issues with some drivers, or malware already on the drive I can't think of anything I've run into with SP3 that was a real issue.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Honestly, with all that's been going on in my life lately, I don't remember what specific issues I had with SP3 this last time around. I think I remember everything was generally slower, though, for one.

However, the point is that switching to SP3 didn't fix the problem with the Radeon, so I don't see how it should be relevant any longer. If some time in the future I want to try to fix the other problems with SP3, then I'll create a new thread about it.

So far, most of the evidence points to a hardware issue that can only be fixed by sending the card back to the vendor. I've tried different versions of the drivers (except any new drivers that have been released in the past couple of months since I last worked on the issue). I've tried Windows updates and SP3. I've made sure there are no infections or malware involved. So far, no software-related solution has been found. Even the vendor/manufacturer told me it sounds like a hardware issue and that I would need to send it back to them for repair.

In spite of all of this, I'm still open to NEW suggestions that haven't been tried yet. However, so far I feel like people are starting to just run me in circles. I gladly accept and am grateful for any suggestions that haven't been brought up yet.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I agree it very well may be and probably is a video card failing, that could explain both the SP problem and the video issue.

Keep in mind that when troubleshooting, all the issues have to be taken into account they are often connected.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Just thought I'd share that I have RMA'd the board. It's only been a few days. Haven't gotten anything back yet. I'm not sure if they'll try fixing it or just replace it. At any rate, I will let you know if it's working when I get it back.

On another note, the old GeForce 8600 GTS that I put in my computer temporarily is working wonderfully. I even tested Portal 2 and it ran quite smoothly. Hah. I think when I get the board back, I might just try selling it.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

god of death said:


> the old geforce 8600 gts will not be able to run modern game at higher setting. It will be better for you if you update system to xp service pack 3.
> Read this link it would help you. The reason is very simple, Your Xp sp2 is latest and 8600gts is old. That's why it is working properly. Believe me, you have just lost token to the heaven when you replaced your raiden 6870. 6870 gives performance equal to nvidia gtx 560 ti. Believe you should weep for what you done.
> How to troubleshoot
> 
> hell smiles upon you and heaven weeps over you.


First of all, the Radeon was defective. My only option was to RMA the card. I got an email from this yesterday and they're going to send me a Vapor-X edition HD6870 as a replacement. If I do decide to sell it, it would only be so that I can use the money to buy an Nvidia card instead. I have no intention of staying with the 8600 GTS forever. Although, so far it has run everything I've tried to do just fine. 

Also, the GTX 560 Ti actually performs better than the Radeon HD 6870. Not by a whole lot, but enough that I wouldn't call it "equal".

As far as updating to SP3, I believe we had already covered that in this thread. I tried updating to SP3 and ended up with more problems overall, so I reverted back to SP2. In short, I have more problems when I have SP3 than I do when I have SP2. If SP3 actually fixed problems, then I'd gladly update, but it does not. SP2 works fine so I'll stick with it.


At any rate, I'll still report what happens with the new card once I get it. Should be within the next couple of days (the tech center is located only an hour away from me, hah).


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

I'm not going to multiquote you, so just understand what I'm saying.

I updated to SP3 because I thought it MIGHT fix the problem with the video card. It didn't. However, it ALSO brought on other problems. I don't remember what they were. I didn't write them down. I do remember things ran generally slower, and I think some programs had trouble starting... but it didn't really matter what they were, though, because I had decided to return to SP2, which didn't give me ANY problems. It doesn't matter what you think. SP2 works fine for me. It's not ignorance. It's a matter of what works and what doesn't. SP2 works fine. SP3 does not. End of story. You have no argument there.

If you have bought products from a particular company and have never had problems with them, then one time decide to go with another company and have problems, wouldn't it just make sense to want to go back to buying products from the company you never had problems with? THAT is why I want an Nvidia card. If I end up having problems using a new Nvidia card with and old OS, then we'll see about updating. Until then, you have no argument there either.

Let me also add this. I'm not against updating stuff (like the service pack). However, if I do update and things are more problematic than before, then I'll go back to what works. This is the same reason I still use an old version of Firefox (3.6.x). Two main reasons, actually. There are certain addons for 3.6 that are very important to me but are not compatible with later versions of Firefox. Secondly, I tried upgrading to version 4.0 back when that was the latest, and for some reason it was so slow it was unusable. I tried a few different times. Same result. So, I went back to 3.6, which WORKS. Yes, I am sacrificing a few benefits to having the latest version, but so far the trade-off is worth it to me.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

@vertigoelectric It's your PC use and do with it as you see fit, no reason to have to explain yourself if it works for you that's all that counts.
Just understand that sometimes SP's and drivers are interdependent not so much with SP 3 as it was with SP2. Same case could be made for newer video cards and Win7 the move from the 400 series to the 500 series was more about DX 11 improvements then DX9 

@ god of death
You have expressed your thoughts no reason to beat a dead horse so to speak.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

I understand. If I could afford Windows 7, then I'd more than likely install it again at this point. Although, I would probably switch out my system HDD for a new one to install Win7 on so that if I didn't like it I could just pop the old HDD back in (hey, it would work). I just didn't really like how Windows 7 did certain things. It was certainly more visually appealing, and faster, but... I was making sacrifices I didn't want to make. I feel like giving it another try, though. I just need to find a copy... a legal copy... that I can afford.

Anyway, the new Vapor-X edition of the 6870 is scheduled to arrive today. I'm pretty excited. I hope they're sending it to me fully packaged and not just the bare card.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I've seen them come both ways a bare card in a white box and in a full retail box, luck of the draw


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Just got it... it's just the card. It's gorgeous, though. Man...

Well, I haven't tried any games yet, and I have now installed Windows 7, but so far I haven't had any issues. We'll see what happens when I try playing some games.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Quick off-topic question for you. You say you have Windows 7 64 bit. Is this on the same computer that has the Amd Phenom II X4 955? If so, then I'm a bit confused because I thought you could only install a 64 bit OS if you had a 64 bit CPU.

I have the same CPU (black edition) and I thought I was limited to a 32 bit OS. Wait a minute, though. I just looked this up:

"_AMD64 technology allows the AMD Phenom II X4 955 processor to run 32-bit applications at full speed while enabling a new generation of powerful 64-bit software applications._"

What the? Are you telling me that this whole time I could have been running a 64 bit OS? When I installed Windows 7 last week I had the choice between 32 and 64 bit, and I chose 32 because I thought I had to.

Doubleyou tee eff.

I wonder if there is any easy way to 'reinstall' with the 64 bit version without having to reinstall and reconfigure all my software AGAIN...


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

You can't upgrade or reinstall a 64 bit os from a 32 bit enviroment. You have to boot off the x64 disk and do a fresh install. Windows 7 32 bit is fine and the difference in apps speed and such is not as great as you think. On apps that are 64 bit ready then yes they load and work a littlle faster.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Amd_Man said:


> You can't upgrade or reinstall a 64 bit os from a 32 bit enviroment. You have to boot off the x64 disk and do a fresh install. Windows 7 32 bit is fine and the difference in apps speed and such is not as great as you think. On apps that are 64 bit ready then yes they load and work a littlle faster.


So basically what you're saying is that taking the time to switch from 32 to 64 is probably more trouble than it's worth, at least for now?

I suppose I have no good reason to upgrade to 64 bit. I mean, until the time comes when I run into a specific reason that I require a 64 bit system, I might as well stick with what I have.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

What you have works fine and there really is not much of a difference in terms of speed. Sure programs and games written for 64 bit systems do work a little faster, but it's not a huge enough difference to ditch what you already paid for and have to shell out more money for 64 bit.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Amd_Man said:


> What you have works fine and there really is not much of a difference in terms of speed. Sure programs and games written for 64 bit systems do work a little faster, but it's not a huge enough difference to ditch what you already paid for and have to shell out more money for 64 bit.


Well it's not that. Mine comes with the 32 and 64 bit versions, so I get a choice. It's more just a matter of dealing with setting everything up and reinstalling everything again, which I'm still not 100% done doing but have already spent a lot of time on.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

I hear yeah on that. I am re-doing mine now. Started last night and now have to install 100+ gigs of games.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

I installed on a different drive than my previous XP installation, so my original Program Files and system folders are still in tact on the other drive. Because of this, SOME programs still worked right out of their folders, which was awesome. For example, my FTP server software. I wasn't looking forward to reinstalling the software and trying to remember how I had the server configured with virtual paths and folder shares, blah blah blah. But then I decided to just try running the server from its folder, and it worked perfectly. I copied its folder over to the Win7 Program Files directory and it all works exactly the way it used to.

I actually had another program that I use frequently, and when I tried installing, clicking the "INSTALL" button did absolutely nothing. No errors, no info. Nothing. Well, there was a log file that provided some information, but I couldn't find ANY info about it online. I tried redownloading from the website and everything but it wouldn't install. Finally I took a chance and tried running the exe from my previous installation, AND IT WORKED! Woooo!

Perhaps some of your games will work the same.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

They would have have, but when I re-install I always zero the drive and start fresh. Half the time is restoring all my backup files. The install and updates is the fastest part.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Amd_Man said:


> They would have have, but when I re-install I always zero the drive and start fresh. Half the time is restoring all my backup files. The install and updates is the fastest part.


I know we're way off topic here, but I want to ask.

I have multiple internal hard drives. After installing Win7, one of them started failing. It would simply disappear from explorer and the disk management console would say it is 'missing' and 'failed' and i couldn't bring it back online. I'd have to reboot. 

I got it running long enough to move my files to another drive, so that's good, but I was wondering if you've ever run into that problem before and if there is a way to repair the drive. It's a 500gb drive and I could really use it if it can work again. I thought maybe a reformat might help, but I want your input.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Go to the manufactures website and download the bootable diagnostic tool. Burn to disk, boot off the disk and run a long test on the drive.


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## jcgriff2 (Sep 30, 2007)

vertigoelectric said:


> I installed on a different drive than my previous XP installation, so my original Program Files and system folders are still in tact on the other drive. Because of this, SOME programs still worked right out of their folders, which was awesome. For example, my FTP server software. I wasn't looking forward to reinstalling the software and trying to remember how I had the server configured with virtual paths and folder shares, blah blah blah. But then I decided to just try running the server from its folder, and it worked perfectly. I copied its folder over to the Win7 Program Files directory and it all works exactly the way it used to.
> 
> I actually had another program that I use frequently, and when I tried installing, clicking the "INSTALL" button did absolutely nothing. No errors, no info. Nothing. Well, there was a log file that provided some information, but I couldn't find ANY info about it online. I tried redownloading from the website and everything but it wouldn't install. Finally I took a chance and tried running the exe from my previous installation, AND IT WORKED! Woooo!
> 
> Perhaps some of your games will work the same.


Are the apps that you copied over (& work) stand-alone executables?

Installed programs create additional files besides those found in \Program Files, including Registry entries.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

jcgriff2 said:


> Are the apps that you copied over (& work) stand-alone executables?
> 
> Installed programs create additional files besides those found in \Program Files, including Registry entries.


One of them was Photoshop. I first ran it from its original Program Files folder and it opened up just fine. Then I copied it over to the current Win7 Program Files folder and I've been using it for days without any problems. I would think a program like that would have all kinds of dependencies, but alas, it works.


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## vertigoelectric (Aug 19, 2005)

Amd_Man said:


> Go to the manufactures website and download the bootable diagnostic tool. Burn to disk, boot off the disk and run a long test on the drive.


I was going to run some diagnostics tests on the drive with the Ultimate Boot CD, but the drive won't even stay 'visible' on the system. What a shame.


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