# Building an Outdated Gamer PC, just got the cpu/mobo in the mail and... oh no!



## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

*Building outdated Gamer PC, cpu/mobo just came in mail, Need a new PSU+case, ugh*

Hi TSF, I'm new here. 

So I decided to upgrade my old 500mhz p3 desktop so that i can play some of the 3d games I've discovered can (barely) play on my 1ghz netbook.

So the PC gaming bug bit me but I couldnt afford the latest and greatest by a long shot so I went with an inexpensive mobo/cpu combo that's a few years out of date (fine by me)
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=A-K8MC51G-3200-K1

Comes with an Athlon 64 3200+ (2.2ghz) processor

It turns out the case I have (gateway) doesn't fit the board! Well it fits but the there's no I/O panel. just holes in the case itself and they're not compatible with the set up of the inputs on the board. ugh!!! I also check out the PSU, 200 watts. I don't know much about this stuff but I'm guessing that's a bit too low. So I did some research on PSU's to make sure I don't do anything stupid..

So I looked it up but it really hasnt helped me know exactly what wattage to buy for this particular board/CPU, so does anyone know what kind of wattage PSU I should buy for this?

Also at the moment I have an Nvidia Geforce 4 mx 4000. Will upgrade sometime probably but not in a rush. Like I said I don't need to play the latest and greatest games because I can't afford it and I'm not that hardcore a gamer. Games that came out a few years ago should be fine with me for a good while. I guess that comes down to meaning games that the Athlon 64 can handle well, however many years ago that was.

So now I need a compatible case and motherboard. I wasn't planning on spending any more at all so cost is a bit of an issue. I hear that you shouldnt spend under 30 on a PSU, and that you should avoid the cpu/case combos (as written in the power supply sticky here). I'm really dissappointed that I'm going to have to spend more money and realized taht I'm going to have to bite the bullet on the case and not the PSU. I'll get one of those 18$ cases at geeks.com I guess. As long as it can do its job i won't complain.

So.....can someone tell me the wattage I should swing for? and more importantly can someone reccomend a reliable psu for like.....30-50?
preferably closer to 30 :/ 
well, as inexpensive as possible

yea, I know....

I can't afford any more :/ 
as long as the cpu won't burn my computer to a crisp I'm satisfied. As long as it's safe and reliable

Any help would awesome, thank you so much


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

I'm a little confused. The link shows a Mobo & CPU but you say you need a Mobo & Case?
I'm assuming you meant a Case and a PSU. 
CoolerMaster & Antec are good quality cases. That Mobo is mATX so you can use a smaller case.
For the hardware you have now, a good 400W would be fine but if you plan on upgrading to a bigger GPU you will have to get a more powerful PSU.

SeaSonic 400W $57
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151076

CORSAIR 400W $55
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi thanks for replying, no I got that combo and was going to use the case of my old 500mhz, but it won't fit. and when I was thinking of mickey mousing it somehow I thought about the power supply and was like, uh oh...

so yea I have a case that won't fit so I need a new case and a new power supply, the combo above is what I already bought.

Those aren't as much as I'd really like to spend but if there's really no other power supplies I should be able to count on I guess they would have to be it. I'm just strapped that's all.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

anything cheaper possibly?


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

This older hardware primarily draws from the +5V rail, so you'll want to look for an older ATX 1.x PSU. Counter-intuitively, a cheap, disreputable PSU may be the better choice in your case. Many shady companies sell old ATX 1.x PSUs to modern consumers for dirt cheap. While their low +12V amperage makes them essentially half their rated wattage when used in a modern PC, for an older one like yours they'd be a better choice.

You'll be looking for a 300-500W ATX 1.x PSU with 30-40A on the +5V rail.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Ah yes, I see where I typed case and motherboard, my mistake. Yes a case and PSU is what I need. In order to afford a decent PSU I'm going to skimp on the case tho and one of those 18$ cases at newegg.com. 

Would anyone seriously warn me against a such a cheapo case? Like i said all that matters is my PC works and won't burn out. For now at least, I can upgrade the case later maybe.

An example of the one of the cheap cases
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147090&cm_re=microatx_case-_-11-147-090-_-Product


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Phædrus2401 said:


> This older hardware primarily draws from the +5V rail, so you'll want to look for an older ATX 1.x PSU. Counter-intuitively, a cheap, disreputable PSU may be the better choice in your case. Many shady companies sell old ATX 1.x PSUs to modern consumers for dirt cheap. While their low +12V amperage makes them essentially half their rated wattage when used in a modern PC, for an older one like yours they'd be a better choice.
> 
> You'll be looking for a 300-500W ATX 1.x PSU with 30-40A on the +5V rail.


Thank you, what does the 1.x mean? This also will be a microatx board and case, so does that matter? Since you say it's ATX

Would something like this be safe for my board/components tho? The words "cheap, disreputable" kind of scare me, understandably.

I've read alot about burning components on mobo's etc from bad PSU's that's why I ask. If I have to pay more, I have to pay more. But if what you're talking about is a good idea, then great


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

How i do I know what exactly fits the cheap disreputable category? I know nothing of what brand names are out there for PSU's. I can obviously recognize cheap tho of course, by looking at the price.

PS thank you for the more detailed specs on the PSU


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

The ATX specs are the standard guidelines that PSUs have to adhere to. The old one was ATX 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, etc. (x stands in for whichever, any ATX 1.something should work). Those older PSUs have much more current on the +5V and +3.3V rails than modern ATX 2.0-2.3 PSUs.

I hate recommending potentially shoddy power supplies as well. But I think you have three options:
1. Buy a modern high-end high-wattage power supply with 30A+ on the +5V rail. This is the most expensive route, and perhaps, unintuitively, the worst. Crossloading (putting more load on the +5V than on the +12V) can cause major voltage instability on even the best power supplies. I think the SeaSonics manage to stay within ATX spec when crossloaded, but just barely.

2. Buy a used quality ATX 1.x. I have an old, old Antec True 480W that adheres to ATX 1.something, and I'd send it to you except I'm going to put it in an old Athlon XP build I have lying around. But something like that would probably be the best choice. It might be difficult to find, though.

3. Buy a new ultra-low-end power supply based on ATX 1.x. This option has its own risks. These extremely low end units often lack protections and have very poor transient filtering stages. I really wish I didn't have to put this on the table, but if you can't find a used quality ATX 1.x PSU this may be your only option without spending $60+.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The motherboard is a socket 754 has a 24 pin main power socket and a PCIe x16 slot so it's not the older 1.x spec you'll need at least the PSU's posted by Tyree above.

Also your current video card is going to be AGP and not fit in this new motherboard.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Thank you all for your replies so far. 

It's safe to go up in wattage right? unlike voltage? I'm considering getting something that can handle getting an upgraded gpu in the future. Sucks that I won't be able to use the agp card, but the game I played a lot ran ok on a Eee Pc netbook's igfx so I suppose it'll do fine on an nvidia igfx for now until I get somthin better.

So it looks like I should stick to a 55+ price range? and....stick to a couple of particular brands as well? what brands? hope this isnt getting annoying. I don't need pure awesomeness, just something I should be able to feel safe with.

I'm looking in the 40-50 dollar range at this moment on the newegg search pages. There's some corsairs and seasonics, coolmax, athena, eagle tech, there's also some 500w ones (not good at that price?)

Also geeks.com has a LOT of inexpensive ones, seems like all their prices are lower in general than at newegg. But again I don't know brand names so i don't know what to trust


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## Phædrus241 (Mar 28, 2009)

Corsair and SeaSonic are excellent. CoolMax and Eagletech are confirmed garbage, and Athena appears to be very low-end as well.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi guys, thanks for all your help so far. It looks like I'll be getting this Corsair here

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...e=corsair_power_supply-_-17-139-008-_-Product

But it says certified compatible with Core i7 power supply. Does this mean it's not ok to run an AMD system? (i7 is intel right?) I've seen some others that mentioned AMD systems (but they were cheapo psu's) so I just wanted to know if it matters.

thanks


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

PS: is 450w significantly better? there's a 450w corsair up there too but I'm not sure another 50w would count for much at this point, and it's 70$


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## Vrait (Apr 6, 2009)

antistatic said:


> PS: is 450w significantly better? there's a 450w corsair up there too but I'm not sure another 50w would count for much at this point, and it's 70$


The only reason to go from the 400w to the 450w would be if you're thinking of upgrading in the future. But I don't think its worth if for 50 watts. Especially on a build like this. The higher watts, just give you more headroom.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

I am going to want to upgrade eventually but I'm thinking 50w isn't probably worth it, better to just get some 600w thing later maybe than pay extra for 50w, but like I said, i don't really know if 50w is substantial or not in the computer world


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Not on your present setup, and a future build with a gaming PCIe card will require more so either step it up to a 650TX now or stick with what have selected.

What video card are you going to use on the current setup?


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks everyone, I picked up 400w Corsair, it arrives tomorrow (man I love that fast shipping!) 

Wrench, yea that's what I figured, I decided to stick with the 400 and upgrade later. I actually will be using the igfx for now since my agp card isn't compatible with the board (oops) That probably sounds like it totally defeats the point, and in a way it does. But it doesn't because my favorite games was running just a Litttllee below par on my netbook with igfx. So I imagine an nvidia igfx will do the job better, at least temporarily. Unless it does not I won't rush on the video card. Although when I get one I imagine I'd want an nvidia, they seem best. Maybe with 256mb? that good enough in anyones opinion considering the outdated-ness of my set-up? Or should I make sure it's a 512?

Danka


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

512mb at least these days a lot of the higher end cards are moving to 1gig, and some games are now requiring 512mb.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

PS: I basically ripped open the holes of the I/O area of my gateway case with some pliers so it's compatible with the placing of the mobo I/O's. Now it's a big rectangular open space about the size of what an I/O plate should be. A temporary solution.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

ok, thanks wrench!


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

You aren't the first and probably not the last to do that
Make sure the standoffs line up correctly under the new board and that there are not any extras left under the new motherboard.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi, so the power supply came, I've installed it. But there's a problem.

I turn it on, the cpu fan runs, my dvd drive light blinks. I hear one beep that last about a full second and then it shuts down. nothign comes on screen.

What I did was connect the ide hard drives to ide1 and the optical/other drives to ide2 (seemed to make sense to me)

I installed the ram stick to slot nearest the cpu (of the two slots available)

connect the main 24 pin and connected one of the other 4 pin connectors (of the available 2 coming from the PSU) to the 1 available 4 pin (says atx 12) on the board

the PSU also has many thin connectors ( like -----' ) which i didn't see any place for on the board (I'm guessing they're sata lines)

and probably the unfortunate kicker.....the line connector for the front power button isn't the same exact shape as the front power connector on the board, i tried lining it up with the pwr switch pins but nothing happened at all, so I used a old hard drive jumper i had on the pwr switch pins and that's how I got it to "work" (quotations because it's not exactly working yet)

Is that dangerous? bad? 

Or it could be the ram not being installed in the right slot? (hoping)


Also: I noticed there's no PCI-e input on the board, does PCI-e power connect to the cards themselves?


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Hmmm, ok according to this.... http://support.gateway.com/s/MOTHERBD/FIC/105554/105554mvr4.shtml

...I've connected the pins wrong.

I connected 6 and 5 instead of 6 and 8 (??), does someone know what jumpers are required to make it run with just using jumpers? So that I can just use the psu switch and windows software for power off and on?

Update: switched the jumper as said above, same response. switched ram slot with the new jumper config, still same response :/


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Hm, I just changed the order of the power cables to my two HD's and it's the same problem, but no beep?

Is there an order you have to plug psu cables into drives?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The front power switch is just a momentary switch meaning it only makes contact when you hold the button in, to jump start just touch the 2 pins together with the tip of a screwdriver for a second and release.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Yea i ended up figuring that out. problem now is, well ive been trying different things, right now nothing is plugged in but the ram cpu, monitor kb and mouse. maybe it's already set in on position. but I don't need to touch it right now to make it start. I press the psu power on and cpu fan runs, and i hear a repeated beeeep, beeeep, beeeep, (more than 3, it's continous it seems) the PC stays on, but thats all that happens

help?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Continuous beeping is usually ram related, the motherboard can't get stuck in the on position, the connection it to the PSU connector and the on/off is triggered in the PSU so unplugging and replugging will reset it.

What slot does the motherboard manual say to use if your only using 1 stick the first or second?


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

it didn't come with a manual unfortunately, it dosn't have a manual and i havent been able to find the info online. But i've tried having the ram in different slots and tried reseating many times

this is the stick I bought http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=1024DDR3200ECC-HYN-R


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I think you need non-ecc ram in that board not ecc registered ram.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

How do i confirm this? would it be on your average mobo spec list online?

EDIT: well I found 1 confirmation online, but I guess that's enough. Looks like I'll have to return this stick and get something else. Do you think it did any damage to the mobo?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Non ECC only> http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=K8MC51G

ECC or error correction ram is used on server boards and is slower and cheaper then non ECC ram. 

How much do have tied up in tis set up and ca you return it?


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

nice, I was just looking at that page as I refreshed this tab and saw the post.

well the mobo/cpu like 50, the ram 17 (geeks.com)

the PSU 56 (new egg)

plus shipping for all of them of course.

the rest are component from my old pc
why do you ask? I think I'm ok with the system. I'll have to replace this memory tho

I got all but the PSU at geeks.com, I'm assuming i can return it, checking it out now


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Just thinking you could do better for a few more dollars but when adding it up it'll be another $50


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Grrr, irritatingly a lot of the RAM i see on newegg or geeks.com isn't specifying non-ecc or not.. some are dual channel too which is confusing me. Dual channel only works in pairs right? like if i bought 1 dual channel ram will it not work? probably a silly question, i dont know these things. I'm gonna have to look up these model numbers from the shops elsewhere on the net and find out their ecc status. erg

Should this be in a new thread?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Dual channel are just matched sticks they will run individually but the dual channel setup runs a little faster> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146577&Tpk=CT2KIT6464Z40B


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Thankk you all. Been using the pc for awhile now and it's great. Games seem to keep maxing out the cpu for some reason tho, even tho I have more cpu then the reccomended amount. They play fine tho, for the most part :/ it's weird, had a couple of game crashes. They run well 90% of the time, although they always max the cpu, (a 2.2, when they're rated for 1.4-1.8)
thanks again!


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

That's the minimum the CPU can be rated for and still run the game, doesn't mean the game won't max out a faster CPU or use more then the minimum recommended ram.


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## antistatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Is it dangerous? I'm playing Luna Online and Penumbra Black Plague atm. They bounce around between 100% and 75%, more often at 100 tho. Luna is recommended at p4 1.8 (i have athlon 64 3200+ 2.2g.) actually i realize ive never seen the cpu on penumbra (reccomended 1 ghz) as its full screen so I can't watch the meter (freemeter) so i guess 100-75 only applies to luna


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Yes it's safe just check the temps with a sensor reading program like Core Temp once in while they should be below 60c.
http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/


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