# Advice on First Build



## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

Here is a build I have been working on for awhile. I am only 15, and don't know a whole lot about PC's. It would be used primarily for gaming in FPS's like BFBC2, MMORGS like EQ2, and maybe some Starcraft 2 thrown in. I would like to game at 1920x1080 with as much eyecandy as possible like Tesstellation, AA, AF, etc. I would also use it for surfing the web, listening to music, and typing the occasional paper. Budget is around 1500 shipped.

Case $95
AZZA Solano 1000 Black/Black Japanese SECC Steel/Metal mesh in front ATX Full Tower Computer Case

Surge Protector $25
CyberPower 1090 6 Feet 4 Transformer Spaced 6 Non-Transformer Spaced Outlets 3000 Joules Surge Protector

Graphics Card $315
Galaxy 70XKH3HS3CUB GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

NOTE- this is the non-reference version

PSU $110
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ... 

NOTE- I am going to unlocking and overclocking the CPU, as well as overclocking the mobo, ram, and GPU. 

QUESTION- Will this 750W with 62A on a single 12V line support all these components at maximum OC?

CPU $99
AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition Callisto 3.2GHz Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Desktop Processor - C3 Revision HDZ555WFGMBOX

RAM $92
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model 996782

NOTE- This is cas7 ram.

Hard Drive $75
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Keyboard $60
Logitech G110 Black USB Wired LED Backlighting Gaming Keyboard 

Monitor $200
ASUS VH236H Black 23" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen Full HD 1080P LCD Monitor 

Mouse $60
RAZER DeathAdder Black 5 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Precision Optical Gaming Mouse - 3.5G Infrared Sensor

Headset $57
TekNmotion PluseWave • V2 3.5mm/ USB Connector Circumaural Nex-Gen Premium Gaming Headset

Mouse Pad $25
steelseries 63008SS QcK heavy Mouse Pad - OEM

Optical Drive $80
SAMSUNG Black Blu-ray Combo Drive - Bulk SATA Model SH-B083L/BSBP LightScribe Support - OEM 

Operating System $100
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM 

Video Game $28
Battlefield Bad Company 2 PC Game EA 

Anti-Virus $10
bitdefender Antivirus 2010 (1PC / 1YR) 

Thermal Compound $10
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM 

Pre-Thermal Compound $8
Arctic Silver ACN-60ML (2-PC-SET) Thermal material Remover & Surface Purifier - OEM

CPU Cooler $35
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler I5 775 AMD compatible 

Speakers $30
Cyber Acoustics CA-3602 30 Watts RMS 2.1 Flat Panel Design Speaker System 

Anti-Static Wristband $4
Rosewill RTK-001 Premium Anti-Static Wrist Strap 


It is $1517.80 before shipping, and shipping is gonna be around $40-$60. I have about $125 in MIR's.

Anyways, I am unsure about the monitor, PSU, keyboard, mouse (but you can't help me on this one :wink, mouse pad, and optical drive.

Monitor- I think I have 25 and 25.5 in. 1080p around for only like 20-40 bucks more than my 23.

I know my PSU can handle my stuff, but what about my stuff on heavy OC?

I like the G15, and it is only like 10 bucks more, but it has orange LED's!

On the mouse subject, I believe I may be a claw grip style person, however, I don't for sure. I mean I use my fingers to move the mouse, but I don't claw it... Time for a trip to "Best" Buy :tongue:

Mouse pad.... I think I have a pretty good one.... I guess they make a big difference. 

Optical drive. I want to play Blu-Rays, but I wonder how much I would *actually* use it. I mean I am paying like 50 bucks for it.... and I watch alot of movies, but have never watched a Blu-ray. This is kinda like the mouse though, you guys cannot really help me on this one :sigh:

I hate decisions....

Anyways, I almost have enough for the build, and would be willing to put more cash into it if it was worth the wait.

Thanks for the help guys!


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

First suggestion would be to look at our suggested build list:http://www.techsupportforum.com/f25...evised-2010-and-updated-regularly-448272.html

You don't have a Mobo or CPU listed.
The 750W Corsiar would be OK with that GPU but EVGA brand is the better choice for Nvidia chipped GPU's.
WD are the better brand choice for Hdd's. The Black Series has a 5 yr. warranty.
Drop the Bit Defender AV, MS Security essentials is free and works well.
IMHO-Blu-Ray does not deliver enough improvement in quality to warrant the price.


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

Oops.....

Actually I only forgot the mobo.

The processor is the AMD Phenom X2 555 Black Edition.
Hopefully, it will soon become a 955 X4 clocked at 8.29 gHz :tongue:

The mobo I have is the 

*drumroll please*

ASRock 870 EXTREME3 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

Another thing to add is that I am not too sure on the mobo.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Asus & Gigabyte are the better brands for Mobo's. ASRock are not that good of quality.


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes, but all EVGA has is a reference card. Which basically means all you get is their warrenty, their sticker, and their "build quality" on something they didn't build. At least that is what I know. And I don't know a whole lot. So if I am wrong please tell me.

I would be willing to pay $15 extra for the Galaxy because 

A. It runs 15C cooler.
B. Therefore, it OC's higher.
C. It looks cooler :tongue:

Well, that is all I have. Plus, from what I have read, the only reference part on the Galaxy is the Fermi CPU. It suppposedly has higher quality capacitors, cooling, etc. etc. Plus it is waaaaaay quieter.

I had a WD, but I heard that the F3's are the way to go. They are supposed to be the fastest 7200 rpm drive... I mean I just need 1T of storage that isn't like super slow, until I get an SSD.

I would also plan on getting a SSD down the road for my OS and games, if that makes any difference,

The Anti-Virus is 10 bucks, and from the reviews I have read, it is the best you can buy. I mean I think 10 bucks is worth it so I can sleep good at night :grin:

If I took off the BR drive and put a DVD burner in, I would save about 50 bucks. Where would you put that into? 

I would most likely stick it into the monitor, or maybe put it towards an SSD.


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

AsRock is a subsidairy of ASUS, correct?

I know their quality isn't at ASUS's level, but, from what I heard, they make some of the best bang for your buck you can get. 


It is running 88% 5 egg on newegg.com :tongue::grin::tongue:


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Asrock is Asus's second tier board, they usually don't last as long.

From experience out of 5 x2 555's 3 of them unlocked without issue 2 did not, when you unlock them you lose the temp sensors on the cpu so no cpu temp readings which makes overclocking risky, if you want to OC use the x4 955 CPU.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

To the best of my knowledge EVGA still manufacturer's their own GPU's. They are the flagship company for Nvidia chipsets. Their build quality & support are very reliable.

My personal experience with Samsung drives. Good for laptops-not so good in PC's. I don't believe you'll find a better performing drive than the WD 7200RPM 32MB Cache units.

Why pay $10 for a AV app when you can get a dependable one for free? 

SSD's are way overpriced and offer little more than faster boot times.

ASRock is Asus but do not meet the tolerances.
In the end it's your money-your choice. We can only offer advice based on our knowledge and experience.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

A Reference card or Reference design just means it has not been modified from the Nvidia design a non-reference card has been modified, it may be as simple as a different cooler or as in the case of some XFX cards a different cooler and less capacitors on the PCB or more as is the case on some of the past Overclocked cards.

The card is still manufactured and assembled by EVGA, XFX, BFG etc on their lines and quality control.


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

ok, I will start looking at a new mobo. Plus, people supposedly get better OC's and unlocks on ASUS and GB boards, at least that is what I have seen.

I am going to stay with the AV though. No disrespect intended, and I am sure that MS's free AV is good. But I think that a 3rd party provider who specializes in this area, whereas MS makes and does everything, is going to offer a better product.

I am going to look further into the gtx-470. I thought that reference cards were all exactly the same, just that they had different warrenties and stickers...

I will also do a bit more research on the HD.

I will wait until SSD's come down to a reasonable price. Whenever that happens... :normal:

Other than those does the build look good?

Thanks again


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Yep looks good.

On the SSD when you do look at them look at Sata 3, 6 gbs drives not Sata 2, 3 gbs drives.

On the AV I used to think the same way, used Norton or McAfee, now all I use is Avast free or MS Security Essentials, and have had no problems where before I did.


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

ASUS M4A87TD/USB3 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 AMD Motherboard 

for $100

but it only has one PCI-E x16, which cuts sli out of the picture.

I wasn't planning on doing it, but it would certainly be nice to have the option to if I decided to go that route.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Even if it had 2 slots you can't do SLI on a AMD chipset your could do crossfire(2 AMD cards) but SLI (2 Nvidia cards) on a Nvidia chipset motherboard only.


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

My bad.

ASUS M4N75TD AM3 NVIDIA nForce 750a SLI ATX AMD Motherboard 


One question I have is

Will my PSU be good if I OC my RAM, MOBO, and GPU? As well as a CPU OC and possible unlock? My rough guess of system consumption would be like 550-600 Watts, but, like I said, I don't know how much of an impact the OC will have. I know the unlock would throw on about 60 W, more if I need to up Voltage to keep it stable.

Another good point was made that when you unlock you lose your temp. sensor on the CPU. 

Are there any solutions to this, because I would LOVE to have a safe, OC'ed Tri or Quad for 100 bucks.

I know that other people who do this use a temp. sensor on the mobo that is near the CPU. They compare what it reads and what the CPU sensor reads. They then unlock, and use the mobo sensor to get a fairly accurate reading (I don't think you could be off by more than 5C at max.) for Overclocking.

I mean for an example. If the CPU read (before unlock) 50C at max. load, and mobo said 40C. That would be a 4:5 between mobo:CPU. I would use that ratio to unlock and then OC. Since this is an estimated "guess", I wouldn't push the mobo sensor past 48C, which yould translate to 60C at the core. The core's max is 70C. That would give me 10C for fudge room, which should be more than enough.

Are there any more reliable solutions than this, or should I find a new CPU. 

Would the 555 at 4 ghz be good for multitasking. Not anything heavy. Would it run a AV scan, music from Playlist.com, and a youtube video at 720p at the same time, no probs???

Thanks!!! :grin:


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

The best way to be "safe" is to purchase a CPU that has the power you need.
OC'ing adds unnecessary stress/heat to components and voids warranties.
The most accurate means of monitoring Temps & Voltages is through the Bios. "Some" 3rd party apps are fairly accurate but that varies from brand to brand of Mobo's. 
Purchased AV apps are rarely more effective than the free ones and the free ones are much less intrusive. The testing I've done with MS Security Essentials has been more than impressive.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The motherboard sensor is not a good solution, the 2 temps are not connected, an after market sensor wire connected to the heat sink is a better solution but not as accurate as the CPU sensors the sensor would connect to a front panel readout or fan controller panel.

4gig is pushing a 555 3.8 stable is more realistic, technically at 3.2 it's already overclocked, by shutting 2 cores down it allows AMD to set the clock higher on the remaining 2(of course this depends on which x4 chip it was meant to be to start with, they are not all made from the same CPU die).


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

1. Alright, so would a 3.8 ghz amd 555 bottleneck my system? Particularly, the Graphics Cards?

2. Would it run a AV scan, a 720p youtube vid, and music from playlist.com without any problems?

3. Would it run a game like BFBD2 or EQ2 with music from playlist.com in the background?

4. What if I added an AV scan and 2 updates onto 3.?

5. Would you guys recommend a Quad for gaming?

I know that like 1-3 games run 2 cores right now, but that in the next couple of years all new games will be supporting 2+ cores.

Also, I won't be doing any video or photo editing, CAD, converting files, or any of the stuff where you really need a quad or hexacore to really get stuff done in under 3 years.

6. Basically, would I be set with a 3.8 ghz AMD 555 for the next 3-5 years?

7. If no for 6., then what would you recommend?

8. Also, I would have to purchase a new subscription from bitdefender every year, correct?

9. Is this monitor a good deal? Do you guys know of any better monitors for around $200?

10. I also looked into some HD reviews, and they all said the F3 was better performance wise, but they didn't say anything on reliability or actual life of the drive as it was... well.... a performance review. Still undecided on this..


Thanks so much for putting up with my resistence to your suggestions. It is just how I was ummmmm raised. "Question everything". That plus the horomones you know :laugh:

Anyways, thanks again :wave:


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Bitdefender is a 1 year subscription, so yes you need to renew every year.

2 & 3 should not be an issue, 4 maybe, but the simple solution is to set the scan to run overnight when you not on the PC.

Anymore the quads are becoming standard, duals work fine at present but the more common quads become the more software will be targeted to them.

The P II 955 would be my choice

I like the Asus branded monitors have used a couple and they look good.

I have not used any Samsung drives, reliability has always been an issue with them, currently I'm using the WD black 640 gig drive in gaming builds.> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9&cm_re=wd_640gb_black-_-22-136-319-_-Product


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

OK, so a quad-core it is.

1. How about an i3? With HT, it is running 4 threads at the same time. But it is 2 cores working on 4 threads, which is probably different than 4 cores working on 4 threads. Another con I see is the 1156 socket.

2. What about a core 2 quad? Just throwing it out there because the Q8400 and the 965 are $5 apart, but I would bet the 965 is quite a bit faster.

3. Lastly, what about the 945 vs 955 vs 965?

I would prefer to get the 945 because I believe it is the exact same as the other 2, and is justed clocked lower. Correct me if I am wrong. I would then OC it, and save like 15-25 bucks.

If is you guys think I should get the 955, should I just get the 965 because it is currently 11 bucks more on newegg. That eleven bucks is worth it IMO just to brag and say "I HAVE THE FASTEST AMD QUAD EVER MADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" 

I think at the budget I am at, AMD is really the only choice.

I am not completely undecided ,however, as I have decided on MS anti-virus. Thanks for saving me $10 and a huge headache 3-6 monthes down the road ray:


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The i3 is a lower end dual(less Cache) the i5 dual would be a better choice, but still slower then the Quad.

The Q9550 is closer to the Phenom II Quads then the Q8400 in performance but still a little short of the 955, the next step up would be to a i7 860 or i7 960.

Are you near a Microcenter store their instore pickup only deals are very good on Intel CPU's> http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.phtml?N=4294966995

I've used all 3 the 955 and 965 do overclock higher then the 945, none are great overclockers like we are used to with the C2D Intel chips but they do ok.


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

I think I am going to go with the 965.

So that leaves us with the final product.


Motherboard - $100
ASUS M4N75TD AM3 NVIDIA nForce 750a SLI ATX AMD Motherboard

Case $95
AZZA Solano 1000 Black/Black Japanese SECC Steel/Metal mesh in front ATX Full Tower Computer Case

Surge Protector $25
CyberPower 1090 6 Feet 4 Transformer Spaced 6 Non-Transformer Spaced Outlets 3000 Joules Surge Protector

Graphics Card $315
Galaxy 70XKH3HS3CUB GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

NOTE- this is the non-reference version
NOTE- I have decided on this over the EVGA. Still open to reasons to get the EVGA, but, from what I know right now, the Galaxy seems better.

PSU $110
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ... 

NOTE- I am going to overclock the CPU, as well as the mobo, ram, and GPU. 

QUESTION- Will this 750W with 62A on a single 12V line support all these components at maximum OC?

CPU $166
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX 

RAM $92
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model 996782

NOTE- This is cas7 ram.

Hard Drive $75
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Keyboard $60
Logitech G110 Black USB Wired LED Backlighting Gaming Keyboard 

Monitor $230
Hanns·G HZ251HPB Black 25" 2ms X-Celerate OD 1080P Widescreen LCD Monitor 

Mouse $60
RAZER DeathAdder Black 5 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Precision Optical Gaming Mouse - 3.5G Infrared Sensor

Headset $57
TekNmotion PluseWave • V2 3.5mm/ USB Connector Circumaural Nex-Gen Premium Gaming Headset

Mouse Pad $25
steelseries 63008SS QcK heavy Mouse Pad - OEM

Optical Drive $70
SAMSUNG Black Blu-ray Combo Drive - Bulk SATA Model SH-B083L/BSBP LightScribe Support - OEM 

Operating System $100
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM 

Video Game $28
Battlefield Bad Company 2 PC Game EA 

Anti-Virus $0000000 :grin: FFFFFRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! :grin:
Microsoft Anti-virus

Thermal Compound $10
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM 

Pre-Thermal Compound $8
Arctic Silver ACN-60ML (2-PC-SET) Thermal material Remover & Surface Purifier - OEM

CPU Cooler $35
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler I5 775 AMD compatible 

Speakers $30
Cyber Acoustics CA-3602 30 Watts RMS 2.1 Flat Panel Design Speaker System 

Anti-Static Wristband $4
Rosewill RTK-001 Premium Anti-Static Wrist Strap 



That comes to 1694.61 

before shipping and rebates.


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

I have been researching overclocking alot lately.

I was wondering what yous should overclock for gaming.

I originally thought you should OC everything.

But a 965 OC will only net you a couple fps, maybe like 7-8 at max. For me personally if I could net 4-5 fps on average for 35 bucks, it is worth it.

I could cut 35 bucks from the build (CPU Cooler) and not OC the 965 because it is already "OC'ed" to 3.4

I do however believe that OCing a GPU yields huge performance benefits to a gamer, as I have seen fps gains of 20-30% on a GTX-470.

I don't think RAM or the FSB makes a big difference either.

I would plan on replacing most of the components in this build in the next 3-6 years.

So I was just wondering what you guys think on the subject of OC'ing.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

What is the warranty on the Galaxy card?
And on the EVGA card?

I would run stock clocks for the first 6 months to a year, then OC the video card and CPU this way for no cost you get a boost and feel like you upgraded the system. 

It really depends on the monitor size and resolution if the extra FPS does anything for you the human eye can't detect a difference over 65 FPS.


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

EVGA is running a lifetime limited, and GALAXY is running a 2 years limited. But you already knew that :laugh:

And if I OC the card both warrenties are voided correct?

I wonder how they know if you OC'ed or not...



I think that Ocing later is a great idea. :wink:


I would turn up the settings as high as I could without falling below a certain point. That point being the fps where I begin to notice stuttering, etc. I will find out where this point is once I start playing. Probably around 30 fps. 


I mean, I really kinda plan on OCing the card. So warrenty doesn't have a huge impact on my choice. 

What is the average lifespan of a video card?

I know a CPU lasts from 10-15 years. So my guess would be....... 7-10 on a GPU.

So we will take the average GPU life, and quarter it to get a GTX-470 lifespan as it runs like 95C :sigh:


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

High performance GPU's fail more often, most often because of the fans, the upper end of the 7x00 cards had a high failure rate as did the early 9800GT's, the 400 to me run very hot just as the 7800/7900's did at the time, I'm a little leery and would want the extra warranty. 

I've had EVGA cover OC'd cards as long as the overclock was not excessive and directly led to the failure(in other words you burnt it up)


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## Merciless (Jul 21, 2010)

Looks like we are switching over to EVGA ray:

Thanks for your perserverance :laugh:

I think the max. voltage is 1.087 Volts without a BIOS flash. So would they cover a overclock on that?

Speaking of that, would you take it to 1.087 or would you do something more conservative like 1.05? 

I guess it would depend on the card.... If I got 825 core stable at 1.05, I would probably take it to max. and see how many mHz I could squeeze out of it. I would then see if those extra, say 20 mHz, translated into fps.

I don't think 1.087 would be a problem for me as I plan on shutting off my PC when I am not using it, so it wouldn't be a 24/7 thing...

Lastly, how dpes the new Hanns-G monitor look?

Thanks ray::grin::smile::grin:ray:


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I'd keep the voltage around the .05 mark and watch the temps.

If you flash the bios on the card you're getting into an area where the warranty would probably be void.

I've used Hans G before and liked them, lately though the Asus branded monitors have been the price point.


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## grimx133 (Jan 15, 2008)

I had to RMA a couple of EVGA cards this year, both had the stock cooling ripped off, overclocked a bit, and ran FAH for long periods of time. The warranty service was absolutely phenominal, couldn't ask for a better company response. Fast and efficient they were. 

Have to agree with wrench on the Asus monitors too, I used to use Samsung, but now buy Asus for TN panels. Haven't had an issue with them at all.


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