# Building new AMD computer



## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

Hey, all.

I've taken on a new project this summer: building my first gaming computer. I've already picked a CPU, an AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Socket AM2. But... even with research, I don't feel comfortable picking a motherboard that will support the latest games. If you could, could you help me out on telling me roughly what I'm looking for or which is the best from the list I've made so far? I'd like to go for the best for the lowest amount of money, as I'm on a budget.

The prospects are:
BIOSTAR TForce TF570SLI 
ABIT KN9 SLI
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe

Thanks!


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## Houndog777 (May 17, 2007)

Hi, Quidam
I'd say go for any board with the AMD 580X CrossFire Chipset.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131095
With gaming it's more the Graphics Card you should be looking at, however a good mobo Chipset and Processor will help.
There wiil be an abundance of DirectX-10 games released for Christmas, so I'd say your main expenditure should be on DX-10 card.
You will also have to spend a fair amount of cash on a proven, quality Power Supply that is capable of giving your system and any future upgrades the juice it needs.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

http://www.motherboards.org/ranking/motherboards/amdam22006/


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

I would also consider Intel at this point because even an E6420 will be more affordable than a 5600+ after the price drops after July 22 and will probably be about the same performance or better, and an E6550 will be better yet. Also the quality of Intel motherboards is generally better than that of AMD.


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks for the help!

Originally, I was looking at the SLI motherboards, but now that I looked up Crossfire, I'm liking that a lot more. Seems a lot more adaptable and flexible. I might even buy the card you linked me to, Houndog. It's fairly cheap and looks wonderful. But is the MSI K9A Platinum (CrossFire Radeon Xpress 3200) any better than the 580X CrossFire?

DX10 is only for Vista, right? I'm not planning to upgrade to that for at least a couple more years, as most of the games I play aren't (reportably) compatible. When Vista gets steady on its feet, I'll switch over. Plus, I haven't seen any DX10 Crossfire Edition cards.

I've always preferred AMD over Intel, which makes me a fangirl, I guess.  The price dropped for the 5600+, so I'll probably order it really soon.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

The rendering methods of each are both about the same, but IMO SLI is much easier to implement. Also, ATI has a major architectural flaw in their DX10 cards, so I would stay away from those if possible and go for nVidia. While the theoretical performance of the X2900XT for instance is higher than that of the 8800 Ultra, the real world performance is much lower. 

Also, while you only get DX10 in Vista, you still get the benefits of the unified shader architecture in DX9, so an 8600GTS for instance will still be much more high performing than an X1950GT for instance. Basically, DX10 cards can perform many many more shader operations than comparable DX9 cards even in DX9 mode. Shader operations are really important. :sayyes:


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

I read somewhere yesterday that SLI makes you download drivers each time a game comes out for it to be compatible with SLI, unless you want the performance to drop. Is this still true, did they fix that, or are they overstating the drop? That's one of the main things that made me think Crossfire looked better.


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

Untrue! Unless there is a driver release that specifically addresses a VENDOR issue in a program, then upgrading your drivers isn't necessary for each new game you get. I upgrade only when specific errors are addressed.

And good call sticking with AMD!


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

well SLI and crossfire both are very high performance features; so I would "expect" to have to walk the extra mile now and then to keep the performance level at its peak.


I think the main reason why SLI is more popular is because Nvidea based video cards have enjoyed a better acceptance by the gaming crowd, even now there is no real threatening competition to the 8800 cards

especially when you give a complete evaluation of them

power consumption / heat 
performance level
cost

but in reality the release of the 8800 has really snubbed SLI as a whole; with the performance delivery of that card there is no need for Sli


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

linderman said:


> but in reality the release of the 8800 has really snubbed SLI as a whole; with the performance delivery of that card there is no need for Sli


Very true, and in fact two 7900GT cards in SLI for instance are going to have lower performance than even a single 8800GTS, and that is even more true when you consider that SLI isn't 100% efficient and the theoretical specs of two GPUs in SLI are higher than the real world performance. Basically, you won't be doubling your performance perfectly by running SLI cards over a single card that is the same GPU.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

also; as matt has stated; given that *most* CPU's cant process all the information of an 8800 GTS 640 what good does it do to have two of them ??


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

I too am planning a new AMD X2 build... Up to now, I have been a ATI Video card fan.... Have used nothing else in the past...

However; I believe the GeForce and SLI make a more flexible, reliable and faster combo than ATI and Crossfire Combo.

I would like to add a Motherboard suggestion. If you are someone who likes to get "under the hood" and tweak things check out the ASUS M2N32 SLI Deluxe. It has the newer 590 SLI chipset. The "tweakability" of the BIOS is awesome.

The M2N32 comes in a standard, WIFI and VISTA model.

Google "ASUS M2N32 SLI Deluxe reviews" and check out spec's and what the reviewers have to say about the BIOS

Another reason to check out this board is: IT COMES PACKAGED WITH A TON OF GOODIES and it uses heat pipes to cool the chipset

Just what you need... something else to think about, huh? LOL


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

I recommend the MSI K9N Diamond. After going through 2 ASUS boards in less than 2 months I've not very inclined to recommend them. There only one shop here in town that even carries them anymore.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

The M2N32 Premium Vista Edition is a good board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131163

IMO it is a good deal for AMD boards, also has proven more stable than other Asus AM2 and LGA775 boards. It is kind of 'weird' though because of the position of the RAM slots on the board.

BTW That board is still compatible with Windows XP. :wink:


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm still very confused by the whole SLI vs. Crossfire, and I've been looking at a lot of sites that test/explain them. It seems in most tests, Crossfire actually runs faster than SLI, but some of you say that the SLI is actually better? Why/why not? I'm not really hardware-savvy (software is more my thing) if you couldn't tell. But do I even need to worry about it all that much if I'm just looking for something that can simply handle high graphics? Then again, I'm also looking for something that can last another five years (at least) like this one has with minimal upgrading. The only thing I've upgraded in my current computer is the video card (ATI X1300 for AGP x8) and the 250 hard drive.

Sorry, I tend to either ramble or over-explain when confused. :grin:

I'm not much of an overclocker or tinkerer beyond getting it to work to its full potential. I am going to be going inside the thing initially, but probably rarely after that unless something screws up. So I don't need those kinds of features, really.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

The performance of each linking and each half-screen rendering mode is so similar that it is really inconclusive and there really won't be a noticeable performance difference between the two.

What I am pointing out is that the individual ATI DirectX 10 cards aren't as good as their nVidia 8 series counterparts. The major thing I like about the HD 2600 series is the 65nm process and therefore low power consumption.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

SLI -VS- Crossifire that race is really too close to call >>>>> I would say the nvidea based solution (SLI) only because right now the 8800 and the last few releases behind it (79XX) are a wee bit better when all aspects are evaluated >>>>> especially heat / power consumption


dont sweat the SLI & Crossfire BOTH will serve you admirably


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

I did some huge research/searching around the last few days. Since Crossfire and SLI doesn't matter all that much and I play MMOGs more often than single-player games (with a few exceptions) now, I figure I don't need an absolute high-end computer. This is the list I came up with:

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+
Motherboard: ASUS M2R32-MVP, 580X CrossFire ATX
Video card: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 2600XT 256MB

Is this a good combo? The main concern for me is the temperature, but none of it seems to go all relatively high. I'm going to have to buy a new hard drive and a DVD-ROM so that they'll be SATA compatible, but the ROM was on the list anyway.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

yes your componets will work together well >>>>> what are your DDR2 ram ????

and which PSU do you have >>>>> a generic PSU isnt gonna run that ATI card :4-thatsba


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

I need to buy new RAM. I only have 512 MB in this one, and I want to have at least 2 GB in the new one. Plus mine isn't DDR2 800.

As for the PSU, I don't know. :redface: I just found all of those parts and was going to look for the rest soon. How much wattage would you recommend? The parts don't use that many watts (the CPU is 65 and the card is around 50) from what I read, but I know you'd rather be safe than sorry.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

my favorite budget consensus PSU for a recent release system build is the Antec Trio 650 watt >>>>>

or the OCZ 700 watt can be found at around $100.00


you CANT find a worthy unit for under $85.00 / so if you find a unit for less than $85.00 chances are high its junk! be careful PSU's are the worst component when trying to establish what you are getting ! :upset:

not other component has horrible makers & models which absolutely wont work, like you will find in the PSU market!

take ram for instance >>>>> there is not a single ram maker out there that isnt "decent" some may have better specs for overclocking but none will leave you absolutely hanging >>>>> there are PSU's that you will absolutely learn to hate.


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

I honestly don't think I'd need more than 500W, since everything I'm interested in is low-wattage. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong.  But I did find a power supply and RAM. Can't tell how many watts the RAM needs, though, or I would add it all up. I've tried googling it with no luck.

PSU: Antec earthwatts 500W
RAM: A-DATA 2GB (2 x 1 GB) DDR2 800 SDRAM 

And the random find of the day: a fan, also of unknown wattage.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

The HD 2600XT is fairly power effecient, but I would not run it with the Earthwatts. Take a look at the Antec Trio 550w as a minimum. The OCZ 600w is a good deal as well.

BTW, the 8600GTS is a better choice for the graphics IMO.


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

Sorry, I don't know how to do that "box" thing when referencing part of another post.

"But do I even need to worry about it all that much if I'm just looking for something that can simply handle high graphics? Then again, I'm also looking for something that can last another five years (at least) like this one has with minimal upgrading. The only thing I've upgraded in my current computer is the video card (ATI X1300 for AGP x8) and the 250 hard drive."

My suggestions for hardware are based on your above statement....

Since my post where I said "I too am planning an AMD build", I have changed my mine about doing an AMD build for the following reasons.

First, the X2 socket is close to it's end. AMD's next generation of processors will require you buying a new MB as soon as you want to upgrade this current build. Let alone 5 years from now. I am not sure, but I think that the current FX and X2 6000 last of the X2 line (maybe someone can verify that or not)

Secondly: If you are looking for upgradeability, I suggest you look at the Intel based boards that handle the 1333 Mhz Front Side Bus. (Go to Newegg, Intel Mother boards and key word "1333 FSB" and you will find 70 boards to chose from in all price ranges.) This type board will handle almost every processor Intel is selling today and also in the near future. In my opinion, you can't go wrong choosing an MSI, Gigabyte, EVGA, or ASUS motherboard.

Tomorrow, the Intel processors are going to undergo a price cut. The AMD processor you are looking at is selling for $150 today. After the price drop, check out what Intel processors are available for around that price. 

You buy a 1333 Mhz FSB board, an Intel Processor for around $150, (after the price comes down) A Geforce 8800 GTS video card, the Power Supply that linderman recommended and 2 Gig of good RAM and you will not only have a very good game and graphics computer now, but a great foundation to up grade and build on in the future.

With the recommend video card, you will only need 1 card and there is no need to concern yourself about SLI or Crossfire. That card is faster than almost any 2 card SLI or Crossfire system out here.

And, with only 1 PCI x16 slot, there is room, on the board, for more ports and other slots for about the same money. This will translate to more flexibility and upgradeability in the future.

With this kind of setup, all you have to do to have a more powerful computer in the future in just add a better CPU. Nothing could be more simple.

If you are interested in how I went from an AMD "fan boy" to deciding on building an Intel based system, check out my thread called "Motherboard/processor combo decision....Help" just below your post in this same section.

Take your time an read it throughly. There is a boat load of information in that thread that can be of great help to you... Some very good people have given good info and advice.... 

Hope this helps


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

well the earth watts is a decent unit >>>> but at 500 watts ?????? hmmmm thats skimpy


in reality to last 3 years and more you should not be continiously drawing more than 50 to 60 % of a PSU's rated wattage

most PSU's advertise a Max wattage rating or worse yet is Peak wattage rating >>>> the peak may have been for a brief moment when it was first fired up :4-thatsba

we really need specs like continous wattage ratings >>>> but it aint gonna happen

I would suggest no smaller than the OCZ 600 >>> 700 watt would be better

antec Trio can take a beating choose 550 minimum >>>> 650 better

antec NEO He 550 watt

Mushkin 550 watt 


if you want the real info and the why for's: its all here :wink:

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f70/outdated-power-supply-information-and-selection-107466.html


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

The Mushkin 650/750w is a good unit. 650w continuous (I believe @ 40 degrees), with 750w peak.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817812005

Also take into considderation Darrell's suggestions, you will likely encounter some roadblocks in the future.


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

Okay... Since you guys are insisting Intel (_disclaimer: joke_), could you tell me more about their processors? I know how Athons are named in terms to their processing power, but have NO idea about Intels. How are they named in terms of their performance? For example, is a Duo 2.0 Ghz basically the same as 4.0 Ghz total, to put it crudely? Are Intels better for games than Athlons are now? Should I look for anything different in a motherboard if I change to Intel?

Thanks, Linderman, for the PSU guide link. Since I usually just link directly to this thread, I didn't notice it! I've realized that I will need at least a 600W, so I'll take both yours and Matt's recommendation when picking one out.

Darrell, I was looking at the Geforce 8800GTS (and the 8600GTS, Linderman) before, actually, when I was looking at SLI. It seems wonderful, but I was looking for Crossfire/DX10 cards that were affordable for the motherboard I picked out. But the 8800 GTS is at least $280 on Newegg... that's a lot. Like you before, I have no idea about Intel, so I'm going to have to research (see above) that a bit to see if I'd rather go that route.

Also, thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. You've all helped me learn a lot the past couple weeks and make headway on this.


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## Darrell Collins (Apr 8, 2007)

OK, some thoughts ref DirectX 10/ Crossfire..

First off, I am not a video card expert... Maybe someone with more knowledge will comment on my thoughts.

If you want both X10 and Crossfire, you are going to be limited to the new "HD" line of cards with ATI GPUs. I have heard that there are bug/driver problems with the X2xxx cards. I don't really know.

Second thought...... The mid-range HD cards are all 128 bit interface. No matter how fast the Core Clock or how much Memory, all data transfer has to go through that 128 bit data path. That could be a bottle neck and effect performance. NOW, what I don't know is; if a 128 bit interface is a performance problem in a Crossfire setup.

SO...... If you want more than 128 bit and X10, you are left with the Geforce 8800s and the ATI X2900s. At this level of performance, one card will do just fine unless you have a big "gadget ego". LOL

Now consider: A EVGA video card with 320 MB of memory AND 320 bit interface is $280. (lowest priced 8800 on Newegg)

The 640 MB/320 bit 8800s start at about $360

A Sapphire or MSI ATI X2900 with 512 MB memory and 512 bit interface is $390 (Lowest priced X2900 on Newegg)

One of any of these cards should be all the video processing power you should want.

IF, on the other hand, you decide to stay with a good 128 bit card and go Crossfire, your are going to have to pay at least $150 EACH for the Crossfire set-up. Now you are back up to or over $300

AND IF you go that route, (2 card crossfire) I would seriously consider getting a VERY GOOD 700-750 Watt PSU.

All things considered, I personally would go for the single 8800

Not telling you what to do, just sharing some things to ponder.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

You are correct Darrell. The pipeline layout of the HD 2k series is flawed. It is rumored that ATI can fix it with a new set of drivers, but there is no certainty.

I would go with an Intel/nVidia setup. Look at a good board like the P6N Platinum or the GA-N650SLI-DS4. Then get a good card. If you can afford it, jump up to the 8800GTS 320 MB. Go with a Core 2 Duo like the E6420 or wait for the E6550, and top it off with a nice PSU like the Silverstone ST 750w.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

Darrell 


corssfire and SLI are a *major waste of time & $$$$*$ now thanks to the help from the 8800 line-up

get your system >>>>> use your current video card until it doesnt make you happy any more !

by then the 8800 GTS 640 meg should be even a sqeak more affordable

the 8800 GTS can bury just about any processor out there; what good does it do to have TWO of them ???

*never buy what you dont need* use you current ATI card until you need performance it cant deliver

BTW: the advice above is correct, however the advice sounds as if its coming from the "extreme gamer guys" they spend money like water & chasing very small improvements in performance >>>> beware ~~~~~~ most of them are using dad's credit card >>>>> I dont say this in a mean way >>>>>>> but when its your butt trucking an extra 500 miles in a tractor to get the next latest and greatest; it means something different to ya !! :wink:


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

LOL, Linderman. Exactly why I was going for the "mid-range" AMD setup before. I have a very limited income at the moment, and no one else but me is paying for it. I'm not a serious gamer, definitely not a tweaker--I'm too afraid of breaking something! I've lived on minimum graphics for the past two years at least, so anything above that is a definite score. I can't use my current video card, or I would... It's an AGP, not a PCI.

I've been doing some thinking (oh no, again? Yeah, I "think" a lot, which usually turns out detrimental to something's/someone's health). I've been reading a little about the new R650 card coming out, the one that's supposed to fix the flaws in the R600. Since I don't plan on playing much besides LotRO, Left 4 Dead, Warhammer Online, HL: Ep 2 if it ever comes out, and the Agency (in that order) for the next year or so, why don't I just stick with a simple/cheaper Radeon X1K or something? My video card now is a X1300, which I love. Then, when the R650 comes out and I decide if I want it, I can upgrade to that. 

I think I'll go that route, actually. Sticking with the things I've picked out already except the card, seeing what comes out in the near future. Worse part is that I'd be losing however much I spent on the X1K for something better (8800GTS or R650). And I can always build a brand new computer in two years, at which time I'll be right back here, begging for help again!

I guess the last piece of business is the RAM and PSU, right? I already have speakers and a monitor. Is the RAM I listed in the previous post pretty good for gaming? If you don't care to scroll up, here's the link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211066. I think I might order the PSU you recommended, Linderman--the Antec True Trio. Is there any other hardware I'm forgetting besides a fan?

One last question. Is this system going to be able to handle an MMOG and a Skype conversation between 6 people at the same time? I would think so, since mine can with a little effort, but I want to make sure.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

A bit of advice - Go for an nVidia 8 series rather than an ATI HD 2k series card. You will get better performance for the same price.

Looks like good RAM there. If you get the Antec Trio 650w, then you will be all set for upgrades up to (but not including) an 8800. If you wanted to upgrade to that, you could always get a dedicated GPU PSU.


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

Darrell Collins said:


> First, the X2 socket is close to it's end. AMD's next generation of processors will require you buying a new MB as soon as you want to upgrade this current build. Let alone 5 years from now. I am not sure, but I think that the current FX and X2 6000 last of the X2 line (maybe someone can verify that or not)


AMD's upcoming AM3 socket type for boards and CPUs will be flexible. An AM3 CPU will work just fine in a socket AM2 board and vice versa.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Very good info EB. I am curious, where did you read this?


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

Wikipedia entry on AMD socket types.


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

ebackus is correct; many of the newer released [email protected] boards will support AM3 cpus's however dont look for much in the way of performace from them, they are scheduled to have been released by now and the unofficially performance leaking out is not much to get excited about, they wont be closing the gap on intel yet >>>>

their new quad wont either >>>> the penryn has been stated to out duel the barcolona rather handedly


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

Good thing to know about the socket AM3's. More options are always a great thing. Thanks, ebackhus. 

I've ordered all of my computer parts. I'm hoping to get the whole thing up and running by mid next week. Here's the final list:

Motherboard: ASUS M2R32-MVP Socket AM2
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+
Video card: EVGA GeForce 7600GT 256MB 
RAM: A-DATA 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 SDRAM
PSU: SeaSonic S12 550W (the Antec went out of stock)
HDD: Western Digital Caviar 250GB 7200 RPM SATA
DVD/CD writer/ROM: ASUS Model DRW-1814BLT SATA

Thank you for all your help, guys. I really, really appriciate it. :grin:


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

You're welcome. That Seasonic PSU is a really nice model. :smile:

BTW does that board have the Crossfire Xpress 3200 chipset? Just curious.


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

Nope, it has the 580X CrossFire one. I was under the impression they're basically the same, though.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

That is the best Crossfire chipset currently from AMD/ATI. :smile:


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

Wow, didn't realize that. That's a definite score! Lucked out there. :4-clap:


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## linderman (May 20, 2005)

The seasonic PSU is the better unit beween the S12 and the Trio 550 >>>> the seasonic is the clear winner of that duel :wink:


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

Glad I made that choice, then 

I've got one last unexpected question. I heard that it was possible that when installing Windows XP, you could copy your settings (email accounts, cookies, etc.) into the new version. I'm not sure on the details of it, really, but is this possible? If it is, how do you do it? I bought a SATA hard drive and plan to put make that one the main drive and reinstall Windows on it and make this main hard drive a backup, so I want to minimize the work I have to put into it.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Yes, you can hook up the old drive and even clone your old drive to your new one and do a repair install to wipe the drivers.

What specific files/items did you want to copy?


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

Well, I was hoping my internet, network, and security settings and files. Also a couple of games and the My Documents folder. The latter isn't so hard, but I'm worried about the registry for the games. I downloaded the beta for one of the games, so I can't reinstall it without five hours of downloading it all over again. On the other hand, though, I kind of want somewhat of a fresh start.


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## TheMatt (May 9, 2006)

Many times what programs do is leave the installer file in the Program Files so all you have to do is copy that and run it on the new computer.

What I do with my laptop is save all programs to a folder on my D: partition called Program Setup. I then run the installer from there. This way, if I even need to reinstall Windows on my C: drive, the installers are right there so all I have to do is run them. This folder is also regularly coppied to a NAS drive in case of a disk failure.


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## ebackhus (Apr 21, 2005)

Quidam said:


> Good thing to know about the socket AM3's. More options are always a great thing. Thanks, ebackhus.
> 
> I've ordered all of my computer parts. I'm hoping to get the whole thing up and running by mid next week. Here's the final list:
> 
> ...


I Approve!


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## Quidam (Jan 30, 2007)

I can't find any install file for LotRO. There's a CleanUninstall.exe, but that's the exact opposite. Maybe I'm not looking for the right thing or in the right place?


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