# [SOLVED] Leaky Toilet



## Solidify

I have the exact same problem as this user in this post: My toilet is making a dripping sound inside the tank. How to stop it correctly? - Yahoo Answers

The flapper is fairly new (less than a year old), so I doubt that's the problem. And when flushed, the water in the tank refills well below the advised 1/2" from the top of that overflow tube.

Is there anything I can try before replacing the entire fill valve post on the left side?

Part 27 is what leaks constantly. If I detach and raise it, it stops and I could put it back and it works again... until someone flushes again.


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

You need to check the flapper valve first, to make sure it sealing.

Turn off the water to the tank. Measure the water level. Let is set 2-3 hours, measure it again. If the water level is down the flapper assembly is leaking water

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Theres no shut off valve on this toilet


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

And the master valve shuts off water to the entire building (i.e.: my house and all my tenants)


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## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



Solidify said:


> Theres no shut off valve on this toilet


You really should have one installed


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Yup, the entire building only has 3-4 installed. I'll take a day in the summer when temp heats up and tell tenants i need to shut off water for a couple hours and i'll do them all myself or have a plumber install them all.

Theres no way to troubleshoot this tank with the water on i guess then?


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

You should be able to use string to hold the float up. That will keep it shut off.

You got to get shut of valves on the toilets soon, especially if they are old toilets.

BG


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## Vegassparky

The seal at the bottom of that post may be compromised, or has some debris letting water pass. You have a good idea of how it works. How is the toilet supply line connected to the wall/floor water outlet?


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I cant check the seal at the bottom of that post unless the water is off, or unless I put the string like BG said. 

The supply line is connected with a copper pipe into the wall that has an aesthetic flange around it. Nothing special. All the toilets are old and without shut off valves.

Should I try adjusting the dial on that post to see if raising the float level will fix this? Does that sort of stuck loosed? Because I've never touched it and the problem is fairly recent.


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## Vegassparky

Is the supply line attached to the toilet flexible? You may be able to gently pinch it off with vise grips while you make repairs.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Nope, I don't have those new braided supply lines; the lines are all made of rigid copper.


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## ebackhus

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Might I suggest installing a valve when you turn the water off? 

The suggestion to lift the float and and let it sit for a time is an excellent start.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Ill def put a valve when i fix it

I think its best to do all the valves at once not to keep disturbing my tenants


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Don't forget when you install the valves to replace the supply lines. Need to have good ones just to be safe like steel reinforced braided ones.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Yea, i cant even put the old ones back if i wanted to since they're rigid copper lines. these are the ones im going to put/already have some places:










along with quarter turn compression valves from brasscraft


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Excellent choice, those should last forever.

One other suggestion, if or when you have to replace the toilets consider getting ones that the bowl/seat is higher off the floor. Here in the USA I think the are called ADA
(Americans with Disability Act). They are not as tall as Handicap toilets, they are in between the two.

Older tenants love them. Both my bathrooms have them and we love them. Down side is they are not cheap.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



> Down side is they are not cheap.


So where's the payoff if neither of us or our tenants are old?


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## Vegassparky

Comfort, and ease of getting up and down from the seat. Marketing has also coined the phrase "comfort height" for models a couple inches taller than standard. 

I agree with BG, they are worth the small, extra investment.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

thanks, i'll consider it if/when we need new toilets. just dont wanna turn my toilet into a handicap parade, no offense. people will come over and recognize the elderly friednly bowl and think were.. well.. an odd bunch

edit: nvm i googled the ada toilet, it's not even noticeably different. thanks.


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Well tenants do age or a new ones could be older. Taller people love them as you don't have to squat so low. I am only 5'6" but knees are not real good.

My brother-in-law is 6'2" and he had them installed in his new house after he used mine.

I seriously doubt that there will ever be a payoff, but may help renting or keeping a tenant. 

Just something to keep in mind. Once you use them you fall in love with them.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

yeah, i hear ya bg. thanks again. it's a great idea. hopefully ill remember it when we decide to change out the toilet (if we do).. nothing wrong with em now


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

It just a nicety. Bathrooms are super important women.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

im really not in the business of looking for nicety with this dysfunctional family. if it works, it's good lol just trying to get by.. again, thanks


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Understand the discord thing.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Just counted and need 15 valves installed. Avg 5$/speedway and 15$/valve, gonna cost near 300$ for the materials exvluding plumbing labour. Ouff


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I might just convince my dad to help me do it in that case. I keep telling him that it doesn't seem like a difficult job but he kept telling me that that's what everyone says until they cut the pipe and can't get it done (so can't turn the main back on), which would be quite the predicament for our rental property.


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Cut the tubing with pipe cutter. For tight places get one of these. Example: 

CUTTR TUBE MIDGT #104

De bur the inside of the pipe and sand any paint the out side. Now you can use your compression valve.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I have that small pipe cutter but I don't have a deburring tool. I have different grades of sandpaper but I don't know which grit to use to sand the copper before installing the valve...


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Some tips How to Clean Copper Water Pipes | eHow


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

^so these are alternatives to using the deburring tool? notice that they didn't even mention that tool in there


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Basically yes


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

As it has been said a deburring tool is not required most time, let the pipe cutter do all the work.

I would use emery cloth, as it made for metal. Sandpaper can be used if necessary, but made for wood. Wipe the pipe off when you are done to remove any grit.

https://www.google.com/#q=emery+cloth&safe=off


I'd say medium then followed by fine to get the paint off and leave a smooth finish.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Ok, if we do it ourselves ill do all that. do i need to put tephlon tape on the compression valve before screwing the nut to it


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## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

We use 100 grit emery at work. If pipe not that dirty we will use 225 the goal is to just get the pipe clean. The flux is the most important use good quality flux it will make the solder flow better. Oatey 30014 No. 5 Paste Flux (8 oz.) for Sprinkler & Irrigation Systems


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Oscer im not soldering im using compression fittings after cutting pipe


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## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Ok then just need to clean pipe. If using pipe cutter no need to debur anything.


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

No tape required on compression fittings.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



> If using pipe cutter no need to debur anything.


How sure are you about this?


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## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

A pipe cutter leaves no burrs clean cut. Now if using a saw be different story


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

ok makes sense, thanks both of you


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

But why do some pipe cutter have a debur tool built in. Granted if the pipe cutter does all the work on a perfectly round pipe it should not be needed.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Good point. Also, regarding the OP: 

Troubleshooting my leaky toilet - YouTube


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## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Well the pipe cutter leaves an rolled edge on the inside of pipe which some people like to take it out with a bur tool. But really not needed the rolled edge doesn't hurt anything.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

ok thanks oscer. could you take a look at the above video?


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## Vegassparky

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I wouldn't doubt if you have a cracked seal in the fill valve.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

How can i troubleshoot that once i install my shutoff there?


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Shut off the water and let the toilet set. See if the level in the tank goes down.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Ok. I read that it could be a siphon issue where the refill tube is siphoningwater from the valve and thats why it keeps leaking, that would slso explain why in the video, it stpps leakjng when i raise it and then continues leaking when i put it back on the post (lower)

Dont know how to adress that though? Raise valve body? Lower water level maybe?


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## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

For starters you can get the ball rod away from the fill tube......

Once you get the stops installed take the valve apart and look for calcium/lime deposits on the valve seats. Repair parts may be available....never know. I just trash the old valves and replace them......

What brand toilet?? OEM parts should be available......what is sold in most home improvement stores is sometimes not worth the time or $$. But.....Lowe's and Home Depot do sell Kohler and other reliable brands.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



> For starters you can get the ball rod away from the fill tube......


I only know how to adjust its height with that green screw; I don't know how to change the angle. I also don't want to force it unless I know it moves that way.

By "stops" you mean the shut off valves? 

Toilet is Crane; I think you can catch a glimpse of it in the clip, above the seat cover.


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## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Yeps.....stops = shut off valves. Only need to say (or type) one word.....:grin:

Most rods can be gently bent by hand......doesn't take much but the rod needs to be free from any obstructions. 

I'll see what I can find for Crane.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Hm, I'm not too confident to go bend that rod unless I'm sure it's malleable.


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

They have a site here Crane Plumbing - Site Map


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## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Not doing much good at the official Crane site.......no parts and only complete fixtures. I did see a Crane ballcock repair kit listed by some company in New York but not sure what models would be covered......and yours is 40yrs old?? 

Rod can be bent using both hands to keep strain off the actual valve (ballcock). I doubt the rod is tempered, and should be easily bent.


***That's the site I was looking at, Joe.....:thumb:


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Yeah just looked there is a pdf but you guys already covered most of what it said getting anything further would require a model number not sure that will be possible.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

SABL, I tried bending the floated rod but it just flexes and then bounces back. I can't bend it anymore outward before it makes contact with the porcelain backing of the tank. I don't want to bend too much at the risk of breaking the rod off the refill post and I don't have a shutoff valve.

joe, couldn't find a model anymore. Looked inside the tank as well. But what would that do considering the parts have surely been changed since 40 years...


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## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Well if it was me I would replace the toilet with a gallon flush one should save on water bill.. a fourth year old unit uses a lot of water.


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

If I remember correctly Solidify does not pay a water bill. I guess the towns pay for water through their taxes. 

I don't think they make a one gallon flush, think it is closer to 1.6 gallon. Old toilets were like three. 

BG


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## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Yeah was thinking of a yernal. So yeah probably about 1.5 gallons for toilet.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Correct BG, we don't have a water bill. 

Wouldn't buying a toilet flush valve that accommodates a lower amount of gallons increase the odds of not having proper flushes, as in, not everything doing down in one pull? I'm more water is better then I'll opt for that considering my irrigation system permits it at no extra cost.


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

The problem you might face is getting something to work with a system as old as yours


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Story of my life (or house). :facepalm:


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Just looking at it practically you did mention 40 years


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Yup, 40 years.


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

My guess is the parts may not be available and the replace the unit advice could work out best


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I seriously doubt that I won't be able to find a replacement refill post for this toilet.


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Hope your right


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

The toilet might be old but general style is the same as newer toilets. If you would have said that newer toilets don't use refill posts anymore, then I'd have agreed with you that it might be hard to fix mine without replacing it, but that's not the case.


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## Gadsden

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



Solidify said:


> Correct BG, we don't have a water bill.
> 
> *Wouldn't buying a toilet flush valve that accommodates a lower amount of gallons increase the odds of not having proper flushes, as in, not everything doing down in one pull? *I'm more water is better then I'll opt for that considering my irrigation system permits it at no extra cost.


Not with a Toto....push the handle...woooosh....gone. Actually pretty amazing.

That's all I recommend to my customers and install 3-4 per year.


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## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Toilets are pretty much standard in North America...and have been that way for many years. Replace the ballcock and get on with your life.....

Many alternatives are offered and all are universal......can't remember what I have but there is no ball. Most important is the thing flushes!!


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



> Replace the ballcock and get on with your life.....


I'm gathering suggestions on how to troubleshoot the parts without a shut off valve before doing that, the work will be done in summer when I can turn the main off.. a bit nicer next time perhaps SABL?


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## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Be nice?? I _am_ being nice....

You're agonizing over a small task......it may seem large but once you get into the project you will see how easy it is. The first thing is planning:

Assess the situation and make a material list......decide if you want to use a ballcock or fill valve. Fill valve will not have the ball and rod. Unless you want to remove the tank do not get a kit that includes the fill tube (the part the small flex tube....the tube that's leaking..... goes into). Pulling the tank will more than likely call for new tank bolts.....and a suitable wrench to loosen/tighten the spud nut. Determine which stop you will need....angle (supply from the wall) or straight (supply through the floor). Emery cloth for cleaning the water line and anti-seize (Teflon tape if desired) for the compression nuts.

Gather the tools needed. Pipe cutter and wrenches......two wrenches are needed....one for the nut and one for a backup to keep the device (valve) from spinning. Small bucket and a rag (towel works nice). Have all the parts on hand and laid out.

Prep......find out where your pipe cutter will fit and clean the water pipe of any paint or coatings. Look for gouges or large scratches where the ferule will seal the connection and avoid those areas. Clean the pipe before turning the water off to save down time. 

Install.....turn water off and open a sink valve (cold side) in a lower level fixture, flush toilet to empty the tank, and cut the water pipe where needed. Slip the valve in place and apply a small amount of anti-seize (pipe dope) to the male threads. Teflon tape can be used if desired.....make sure to wrap it in a clockwise direction. Line the valve up in the right direction and tighten up the compression nut till the valve no longer can be turned on the pipe.....snug up a little more to make sure. Make sure valve is turned off and turn water main back on......check for leaks. Once the stop is in place you can work on the fill valve at your leisure....the water only needs to be off long enough to get the stop installed.

How To Install a BrassCraft Compression Valve - YouTube

No need to troubleshoot......the ballcock leaks. Why wait til summer?? Go ahead and install the stop and determine if you really need a plumber for the rest of your building. Not all stops have to be replaced at one time.....lack of stops has existed for 40yrs!! If it were me I'd wait until the fixtures need worked on and install stops at that time......make it worthwhile to get my tools out.


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## GZ

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Did you ever fix the initial problem with the fill (float) valve?

Derp... I should know better... There was an entire second page I haven't even read yet! :facepalm:


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## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



GZ said:


> Did you ever fix the initial problem with the fill (float) valve?
> 
> Derp... I should know better... There was an entire second page I haven't even read yet! :facepalm:


I hate it when that happens.....

I hope the vid from BrassCraft helps Solidify on the install. He already has the tools......confidence will come later.

Had to look at the stop in my bathroom.....compression. In my first house they were all soldered......have to make sure the valve is fully opened before applying the heat.


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## GZ

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I grew up practically destitute in a run down mobile home with exposed water pipes. I learned to solder copper under all types of conditions... I would never use compression fittings in lieu of soldered joints when using copper. But that's just me.

Luckily the fill valves are a dime a dozen and inexpensive and aren't all that hard to replace. Although I feel the overall quality has become "cheap" in recent years.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Hopefully I'll have addressed everyone in the forthcoming post.



> Be nice?? I am being nice....





> Replace the ballcock and *get on with your life.....*


Again, this, to me, is a bit crude, insinuating that I dwell on something as tedious as this project. 



> You're agonizing over a small task......it may seem large but once you get into the project you will see how easy it is.


Where do you see me agonizing over this? Don't make the mistake of using the length of this thread to infer the difficulty I'm having with this project.

With the exception of having learned that there is a difference between a ballcock and a fill valve, I was already aware of virtually everything you explained in your last lengthy post. I'm not afraid of doing the work, I'm simply putting it off until later and in the mean time, having a discourse with the members. 



> No need to troubleshoot......the ballcock leaks.


How can you be sure about this unless you troubleshoot the issue? What if it's a siphoning issue?



> *Why wait til summer??* Go ahead and install the stop and determine if you really need a plumber for the rest of your building. *Not all stops have to be replaced at one time.....*lack of stops has existed for 40yrs!! If it were me I'd wait until the fixtures need worked on and install stops at that time......make it worthwhile to get my tools out.


I'll give you the benefit of the doubt of having overlooked my post adrressing this rather than assuming you didn't read anything: as mentionned earlier, the reason I will wait until summer is because I don't want to be stuck in a jam if I turn off the water and then have complications in the winter. For example, because this home is 40 something years old, it has a 40 something year old master gate valve that leaks once in a while. I've had to tighten it several times and call the city to shut off my water line to do that. In the event that something like that should occur when I turn my main off or back on, my municipality wouldn't be able to access the key to turn my building's water off since it's located about six feet deep into my driveway, covered my 30 something inches of ice and snow at the moment.



> Not all stops have to be replaced at one time.....


And again, like I mentioned, the reason I'd prefer doing this is for the sake of not disturbing my tenants. I'll forewarn them that the running water will be out for several hours during a summer (or spring) day and then will either do the job(s) with my dad or call a plumber. 



> I hope the vid from BrassCraft helps Solidify on the install. He already has the tools......confidence will come later.


Thanks SABL. I know how to do everything very well, but as you say, confidence is the issue, especially when 3 tenants while be riding me in the event of a mishap and I can't get the water back on until I call a plumber.

If we lived alone, I'd have done it by now (well maybe not in the winter but you get the point). Kind of reminds me when I had to drill the holes in my tile for that toilet paper holder.



> Had to look at the stop in my bathroom.....compression. In my first house they were all soldered......have to make sure the valve is fully opened before applying the heat.


Everything is soldered in my house as well.


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



> What if it's a siphoning issue?


I don't think we use anything like that in the USA. Granted I have not worked on many toilets.
I have no clue how they work

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Anything like what?


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I think BG was meaning a syphon system toilet,maybe he missed the description earlier regarding water possibly syphoning away.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

:nono: BG

Forget about this toilet for now. I'll fix it in the summer.

I have another toilet with a different problem. This one has a shutoff valve. The problem with this toilet, which uses a ballcock, is that the water level always fills up far past the indicated waterline level, forcing the excess water to continueously drain into the metal cylinder. 

I've tried turning the screw on the refil post both ways with no success; it seems like the screw no longer has an effect on the height of the ballcock. 

Would it be premature of me to want to swap out the existing refill post and ballcock with a new one that doesn't use a ballcock, like this: http://www.amazon.ca/Fluidmaster-400A-Anti-Siphon-Toilet-Valve/dp/B00002ND6R
Are there compatibilty issues I'd need to address beforehand?

I can easily do it with this one since the shut off is there.

Which leads me to my next concern. The 1/4 turn shutoff on this toilet doesn't seem very old or rusted at all and yet, there is an incredible amount of resistance when turning the valve on or off. The mere fact that it's just as difficult to turn back off (releasing the water pressure) leads me to assume it's a valve-related issue (i.e.: a damaged piece or ferrule) as opposed to just a build-up of water pressure. I have to use two hands to turn the valve on or off. :huh:


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

If you pick up on the long rod to the float, does it shut off?

Those 1/2inch ¼ turn valves will get harder to turn with age due to mineral deposits,
corrosion maybe on the valve body/cylinder. These are called ball valve. I have only used gate valves, take more than ¼ turn, They have a bigger
handles.

I would not mess around trying to swap valves, just replace both of them. Should be no problem with installing them. Trying to reuse an old one one would probably require a new gasket where the assembly goes into the tank.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Lifting the rod does nothing.



> I would not mess around trying to swap valves, just replace both of them.


Which second valve are you refering to when you say both?

I think Im getting confused bc a valve means both the shutoff and the refill post.

Yes i know what a gate valve is; my earlier explanation of why i didnt want to do this work in the winter covered that when i spoke of my main gate valve.

Thanks.


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

The flushing mechanism is known as a Ballcock. The other piece with the hollow tube is the Overflow tube.

What I was saying, since I thought you want to replace the ballcock with a used one, it is not worth it, just buy a new one.

Use what ever water supply valve you want, but remember when they get some age on them they can be very hard to turn by hand. A ball valve my need a pair of pliers to turn. Not much use if the water is over flowing and you have to find the pliers first.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Well you're right; the screw that I was turning to adjust the rod's height was all rusted and very difficult to turn.


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## GZ

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Ball vlaves (1/4 turn shutoff valves) are usually made of brass and stainless steel and are not prone to corrosion.

Hard water mineral deposits can cause the valve to become bound (hard to turn).

They are simple devices and are built to last a long time. Usually made of a brass/copper shell, Teflon seals and a stainless steel ball.

Some ball valves are a bit tough to turn right out of the box, but will usually last longer than gate valves and are less prone to binding.










As for the fill valve inside the toilet tank, either a ballcock or newer type fill valve will work and they should be pretty much interchangeable.


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Generally don't see these on a toilet or in a expose area. 

BG


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## GZ

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

They have smaller versions for toilets, but the way they are built is practically the same. I used that photo because it is cut-away to show the way they are built.

These are the "style" ball valves usually found for small plumbing shut-offs.










Same premise, just smaller and more ornamental.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Thanks GZ, that cutaway photo really helped. So then then valve cant be corroded and it's mineral deposits that are making it difficult to turn on and off? Because it wasn't like that when we installed it. 

It's like the one above this post.


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## GZ

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Corrosion is highly unlikely, especially if the valve isn't old. That isn't saying that it isn't possible.

Do you have hard water?


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Im not sure. But if it were hard water, wouldnt it affect all valves? I have some 40 yo valves that are working fine.


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## GZ

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Hard water affects a lot of things. You will tend to notice mineral deposits around leaky faucets and such.

Could be a few of things causing the valve to be tight... Including swollen seals although that is a bit rare.

I am by no means an expert on the subject. But if the valve is operating properly (shutting off the water supply) then I wouldn't worry too much about it right now.

Most of the time the valve will be in the open position and will only be closed when the toilet needs to be serviced. If the valve itself is leaking or not completely shutting off the water supply, then I would consider replacing it.


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

OK. I took a picture of the valve. It just worried me that it's that hard to turn malfunctions if if I know I can address it now.

Sorry about the cleanliness. It's a spare toilet in the basement. :uhoh:


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## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Maybe a little WD 40 sprayed on the end could help, where the shaft goes in.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I read up that WD-40 may not be the best idea for the valve and even if there's no harm, the WD-40 won't make it into where the corrosion needs to be. I can still try though. Some threads suggest loosening the packing nut but I don't like the sound of doing that with the main on.


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

WD 40 is an excellent product, but you are right it is not the best thing to use since it so short lived, but it is a start. Short of being able to take the valve apart and cleaning both the valve body and the mating surface there is nothing you can do.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Ok ill take a better look in summer when i can turn the main off and replace the ballcock with a refill valve at the same time. Thanks BG


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## GZ

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

WD40 contains petroleum distillates which can dry out and damage the seals. Best not to use it on these applications.

Judging from the photo, there could be some corrosion on the shaft which enters the assembly through the packaging nut. 

If the ball valve shuts the water off to the tank, then you should be good to go for replacing the refill post.


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

What would you recommend then? Oil is a petroleum distillate. Not all rubber is eaten up by WD 40.

BG


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## GZ

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Lithium grease.


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## joeten

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

What about something like super lube


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## GZ

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I would use only Silicone grease or lithium grease. If this were for a potable water source (faucet) I would say Food-Grade silicon only.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

GZ, with great force, I can turn the valve off and cut off the water supply to the tank so thats not a problem. I just dont wanna do it again until the summer time incase its rusted or breaks of aince its difficult to use. If the valve wasnt so hard to use, id change the refill valve now but because it isnt, ill wait until summer time incase i need to turn off main if something happens. Im hust planning ahead.. Thats what all these posts are

With that being said, i wont need any type of lubricant for now


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I'd go ahead and replace the valve when possible.

BG


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

That would be this summer


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Keep a pair of pliers handy, just in case.

BG


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

yep, thanks for everything BG. I'll update this thread and all others with photos when I fix all my plumbing repairs.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Plumber came and installed all the stops. So now I tried cutting the water to the tank and then screwing the screw to make the floating ball go up or down to change the water level that the tank fill to. The problem is that no matter what direction I screw in, it has no affect on the water level. I've tried screwing all the way and unscrewing as much as possible and the water level is the exact same. This is the same across all 3 toilets.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Since you paid a plumber to install them, I would contact them.

Nobody knows what you put in.

BG


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## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

The plumber only installed the stops. He didn't touch inside the tank. The is the same problem as when I first started this thread: the problem I explained that I had the refill tube leaking. Someone suggested that I install the stop on the toilet so that I can troubleshoot it easier. That's what I had done. Now I troubleshooted it by draining the tank using the newly installed shutoff. But the problem is still there: there is still dripping coming from the refill tube and none of the adjustment screws seem to have an effect on the water level. I can turn the screws counterclockwise all the way but the water level will still fill up all the water over the refill post. Seems like the screw does't affect the floater anymore, no matter how I screw it.


----------



## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

sounds to me you will need to replace the whole refill assembly. don't know the proper terminology of the part.


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

See Post #54, this thread. Bend the rod.

BG


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

BG, I tried bending the rod, did not work.

oscer, that's what I ended up doing. I went pick them up today 3 x Fluidmaster 400A and installed 2 of 3 so far. The third I'm not sure if I will be able to remove the supply line since it's metal:










These are the 2 I installed this morning:



















This fixed both the leaking refil hose and the issue with adjusting the water level. I can hear a pin drop in both washrooms now.

It was a pain getting the plastic fastening nut off (the one that fastens the refill valve to the tank) since it was a tough position but I managed. This was my first time doing this so I'm pretty satisfied with the work.

As soon as one of you let me know if the 3rd toilet's supply line can be salvaged while replacing the refill valve, I'll do the last one.


----------



## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Looks like just need to remove the plastic nut from tank and metel nut from valve


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Ok perfect. Ill do it tomorrow. Thanks.


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## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

That's a pretty short run on the supply. Can you work everything from the tank side without disturbing the compression nut on the stop?? Loosen the plastic nut and let it drop down out of the way......then loosen the metal nut that holds the valve in place.

*That does not look like a new stop.....


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

SABL, yeah, it's going to be tight to unscrew the refill valve without disturbing the stop but if I take your advice I should be able to. Besides, the supply line doesn't need to move, all I need to do is unscrew the plastic nut enough to remove the old refill valve, and since the supply line is rigid, I'm hoping it will stay in place.

And I don't know what to say about the stop. The washroom was re-tiled a couple of years ago by my dad and his buddy and he told me the stop was put then. It works as it should so I'm not concerned about that. I showed it to the plumber because I WAS concerned since that was the one that was difficult to turn on and off but then, as a I mentioned earlier, he did it with a pair of pliers and said that's normal when you don't move it for some time and suggested that it happened because of a leak from the refill valve. 

So I'll go with that for now and see where it gets me. The most important thing is that the shut off valve works in the event that I get stuck, I can just call the plumber or post here. :grin:


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I would pick up a new supply line, just incase.

BG


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

BG, if I turn on the stop to block the water and then unscrew these three nuts (image), will the stop still be blocking the water from spraying out? For some reason, I have a feeling that when I remove the lowest nut (lowest red circle) the water will come spraying out. It shouldn't right, since the shut off valve stops the water before it gets to that nut?

The reason I ask is because I was thinking of just replacing the supply line with a braided one while I'm down there, since you brought it up. :thumb:


----------



## oscer1

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

if the valve is turned off it wont let water out when you take bottom nut off. will have a litttle water come out but not that much wont be spraying out.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Perfect. I'll get to it tomorrow.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I went to buy the smaller speedway/supply line that my hardware store had, which was 9", but when I returned and began my installation of the new refill valve and tried to install the new braided supply line, I wasn't able to use it. The braided supply line (9") was too long to attach with a straight connection yet too short to loop it without having a kink in the line. I also thought about changing the angle of the shut-off so that it would point a bit more outward, which I assume would have given me more distance to allow me to run the speedway without a loop but I didn't want to take off the valve and risk diving into my work and/or problems (not to mention I would have had to shut off the main waiter to do that).

So in the end, I just put back the old rigid supply line. The toilet works well with the last Fluidmaster 400A refill valve installed, to no surprise, however, there is a very very slow leak coming from the valve. The leak was not present before I began to the work and therefore, I suspect it to be either the result of not tighetening one of these three nuts. I'm more inclined to believe it's the lowest circled (the one with the ferrule in it) that hasn't been tightened far enough. However, when I try to tighten it any further, while holding the valve body with one set of channel locks and tightening the nut with another channel lock, the entire pipe moves, which leads me to assume that that's as tight as it will fasten without causing any damaged to the ferrule. 

I left a small pan under the valve and turned the water back on and the toilet operates normally. An hour after the install, the empty pan has a tiny bit of water (hard to tell whether those drops were the residual water that hadn't drained after I fixed the nut or whether the issue is still present). I will keep an eye on the pan for the next day.

Edit: I'll be returning the 9" braided speedway since I can't use it.


----------



## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Leak coming from around the stop handle (stem) on a 1/4 turn valve?? Just keep an eye on it and a pan underneath. Every time I use my 1/4 turns to shut the water off they leak......I have a pair of new valves sitting right next to me from last week's sink install and the stops leaked. The valves go back to the store......the leaks stopped after a few days.

I didn't think you'd need to disturb the connection at the stop. But, at least you had a new supply on hand if needed. That's the problem with flex lines, though.....they are rarely the right length and need to be long enough to make a loop.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



> Leak coming from around the stop handle (stem) on a 1/4 turn valve??


Yes.



> Every time I use my 1/4 turns to shut the water off they leak......I have a pair of new valves sitting right next to me from last week's sink install and the stops leaked. The valves go back to the store......the leaks stopped after a few days.


I don't understand this. Did you leave the valve that were leaking or replace them?


----------



## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Left them in place and monitored what was going on. The leak either gets worse or stops......in my case the leaks stopped and the valves will be returned. Had the same problem 10yrs ago and kept a pan under the toilet stop......it eventually quit dripping and I removed the pan.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



> in my case the leaks stopped and the valves will be returned


I dont understand why return them if you say the leak stopped?


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I think they are returning the new ones.

BG


----------



## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

BG's got it......the leaks stopped and I don't need the new valves. From my experience, when you disturb a 1/4 turn it will drip. Can't remember if the kitchen sink did that but 2 toilets and 1 lav had a drip after they were shut off for repairs. All stopped dripping after a few days when mineral deposits sealed the leak.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Are mineral deposits supposed to be sealing that leak?


----------



## Vegassparky

Supposed to, or not, it sure is nice when they do.

Like the others, I always have spare valves in the garage, cause if I touch an older one, chances are its gonna leak.


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Solidify 

I think seeping is a better term than leak.

BG


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Well the seeping water results in drops that leak lol

Vegas, that's smart.. but I wouldn't be putting the valves on myself so that would be pointless for me. Maybe sometime down the line.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

You guys were right, the leak stopped on its own. Clean as a whistle now (2 days later).


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Good to hear.

BG


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Thanks for your help guys.


----------



## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Good to hear!!

Kinda pointless to install a stop and have it drip after 1 or 2 uses.......you still have to turn the main off to replace the stop......:banghead:. I sent my son out to get new stops after he replaced the bathroom sink......the stop was really dripping.....and fast. Was too late in the day to shut the water down so we put a small pail under the valve......checked in the morning and the drip had slowed down considerably. The day after that it had stopped completely.....:thumb:


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



> kinda pointless to install a stop and have it drip after 1 or 2 uses


Makes me reconsider replacing that stop. Dont wanna have to have a pan under for 2 days to wait for it to stop dripping every time I use it.


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

True, but think about how often you need to use it. You can go years before it needs turned off again.

BG


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Good point.


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

If it has a new flush assembly it could easily last another 10 years.

BG


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

I'm so glad I was able to get it done myself. Thank you.

Today there was all kinds of water dripping/leaking down the outside of one my toilet tanks. I think it wad condensation because someone took a hot shower with the bathroom door closed and the water in the tank is closed. 

Is this normal/preventable?


----------



## SABL

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Exhaust fan will help.....make sure it is used when taking baths/showers (if you have one). Condensation is normal, especially this time of year when the water is colder......I'm surprised you didn't noticed the condensation all winter. Summer also presents the same problem with warm moist air and a cold tank.....the more you flush the toilet the more condensation when cool water fills the tank.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Yeah, I figured that's what it was.. just wanted to confirm since that's the toilet that I'm in the middle of fixing the disconnected air duct for the exhaust fan.


----------



## Basementgeek

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

They still make toilet tank covers, example only:

5 Piece Rug Contour Lid Tank Lid Tank Cover Set | eBay

Who takes a shower with the door open?

BG


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*



> Who takes a shower with the door open?


For now we have to at the expense of not having a functional fan. So the steam doesn't ruin the walls.


----------



## Solidify

*Re: Leaky Toilet*

Marking this as solved since the leaks were taken care of when the new fill valves were installed. 

Thanks everyone that kept up with the thread.


----------



## Basementgeek

If the steam is damaging the paint, it possibly not applied correctly. A fan is a good idea
still.

BG


----------



## Solidify

When my family mistakenly takes a hot shower with the bathroom door closed, the steam creates mildew on the walls. But yes, I'll be fixing the fan disconnection and installing the new one soon.


----------



## SABL

I take a shower with the door closed.....:blush:. 

Getting the exhaust fan in order will help greatly. Last code I was aware of is an exhaust fan is required for bathrooms without a window. Getting people to use the fan can be a problem if you have multiple lights on separate switches. I may rewire my switches to ensure the fan comes on with either light......I have a vanity light and an overhead (ceiling) light.

Those rug sets shown by BG are kinda nice......as long as you don't have young boys in the house with poor aim.....:laugh:.


----------



## Solidify

I dont like the rugs, they look old style.

Yes, that code sounds right because my main washroom has a window but no fan.


----------



## SABL

I don't want a rug in front of the toilet. Next to the bathtub is a must......floor is cold and can get slippery......:sigh:


----------



## Solidify

True but a rug in front of the tub means it will get dirt and wet very fast/often


----------



## Basementgeek

We use towel folded in half.

BG


----------



## Solidify

Yup, sometimes that's what we do too.


----------

