# Olds Instrument Cluster vs Instrument Panel



## ada5is (May 1, 2007)

What is the difference between the instrument panel and the instrument cluster? I know that I have to have my cluster rebuilt, the dealership is trying to tell me it is $700 to have a 1997 Oldsmobile Achieva cluster rebuilt. I found a used instrument panel for $35 on craigslist. The instrument panel Ifound has a lot more miles on it than my car. Is there anyway I can use my old odomoter?:4-dontkno 

Is there any way I can just use the components of the instrument panel? From what I have seen the cluster and the panel are the same thing.

Can you all also tell me how much of a pain it is to put a new dash in one of these? My car has the dual airbags.

Thanks

ada5is


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Morning ada5is, I am not familiar with that vehicle but that sounds like quite a task, what is the current problem with your existing panel?

Cheers, qldit.


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## ada5is (May 1, 2007)

Dummy lights do not come on always. There is something wrong with the instrument cluster. I guess it has a short it in. Dealership is saying $700 to rebuild, I have a hard time believing that.

I think I found out what it was from a friend of mine at work today. The cluster is what the panel plugs into. It is behind the panel. It is a box basically.

With the short in the cluster, the car thinks it is being stolen, so it shuts off the fuel pump.

I just need a cluster. Hopefully, things will be fixed after this.

Ada5is


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Evening ada5is, I am intigued, this may sound rather dumb but I've always considered the instrument cluster and the instrument panel was more or less the same thing.

Generally in most modern vehicles the instuments are backed by a printed circuit board that has a few electronic components mounted on it such as a solid state voltage regulator and various connectors.

A common problem has often been simple loose connections in the edge connectors or damaged tracks on the PCB from overcurrent. 
On occasions the voltage regulator causes problems, it is commonly soldered to the PCB and is usually part of the metering circuit.

As I mention I am not familiar with that vehicle but I am interested in what you find.

Do you have the maintenance manual for it?

That kind of problem can often actually be caused by the ignition switch contacts.

Is that a complete digital readout system or does it still use analogue gauges?

Cheers, qldit.


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## ada5is (May 1, 2007)

I still have the analogue. The only thing digital on this car is the radio.

It is a 1997 olds Achieva SC. Do you know if I could recycle the parts that I need and still use the old Instrument panel? The panel I found has A LOT more miles on it than mine. I have less than 90K miles on mine. It has been a good car up until now. Electrical problems just always seem to bite you hard when they happen. I took the car to a dealership, so far it has been over $500 to diagnostics. They want $700 to rebuild the cluster and I think that is just a bit much.:sigh: 

One other problem that I am having is that on really hot or really cold days (Colorado, happens all the time) the motor on the electric window locks up, it may go part way up or part way down. You have to wait a minute or two to get the window up or down. My mechanic said something about it being the motor on the window, in the door panel. I guess it gets worn out. The only problem is in the drivers door.:4-dontkno 

Need to get the car fixed. Do you happen to also know if it is really difficult to pull out the dash on one of these things?

Thanks for all your help. And no, I don't have the manual for it, when I bought it, there wasn't one in it.

Ada5is


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Morning ada5is, I think I will mention the window drive first.

The way these electric window systems usually operate is quite simple.
When you operate the window in either direction, the motor drives until the window reaches an extremity, or has a loading excess, whereupon the motor current loads and opens a thermal switch inside the motor which removes it's power.
The window weight is counteracted by a spring which means the motor only needs to move the window in it's track.
These motors are generally a completely sealed item and are pretty reliable.

So your description with your drive motor still operating is symptomatic of a loading problem either in the window movement or motor drive to window gearing.

Sometimes a little powdered graphite dusted into the window tracks helps assist the window to slide more freely. Powdered graphite in a "puffer pack" (small plastic bottle) is available at most motor parts supermarkets and is incredibly useful to have.

I usually inspect the window runners for free movement of the window (no seals intruding into the slide area etc.) before having to remove the motor and window drive assembly.

In that your window is actually driving partly, it appears that you have some stiction in the system, probably in the window track itself.

If you can't see any reason for the window not to slide properly, you will need to remove the drive assembly.

To do this you need to remove the inside door trim, handles, electrical leads plugs etc. the plastic water seals on the inside door and then remove the motor window drive assembly. 
This consists of a large segment toothed gear with the motor attached and is usually a nuisance job, carefuly undoing all the retaining bolts and manipulating it out.
It drives the window with rollers that run in tracks on the bottom of the window which slide out at an end and needs manipulating to get it out.

You will need a small socket set and a few other simple tools.

You may need someone to hold the window variously when you detach the mechanism and remove it.

When you have removed the drive assembly you need to move the window up and down manually through it's full travel (by hand) and ensure it has completely free movement, I suspect you will find there is some impediment in it's movement that may need one of the window slide runners adjusting. (If the felts are badly damaged you may need a new track, but this should not be the case)
When all is confirmed well, examine the motor and the segment gear for proper movement and lubrication, be careful if you try to remove the motor from the assembly because there is a spring to counteract the window weight and it has a fair amount of stored energy.

Lubricate the gear and parts as needed and carefully reassemble the unit to the door in the reverse order to the removal. 

Now with regard to the other dash problem, your mention of the fuel pump kind of puzzles me, normally an antitheft system immobilises the ignition, I haven't seen one that operates to immobilise the fuel pump, but I am not familiar with a lot of your vehicles.

Can you explain more fully what is actually happening with your instrument system, what is operating and what is not, or which lights are not functioning or what the complete problem actually is.

When you mention "dummy lights" are your referring to the warning lights, if so which ones don't appear to be operating, or is it all of them?
Are there any other odd things happening starting the car or stuff like that?

Others may have different ideas and experience on this subject but your problem is beginning to sound like it may be an ignition switch problem.

Cheers, qldit.


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## ada5is (May 1, 2007)

The way this car is designed as well as several other GM's (General Motors), is that if you try and bust the ignition, such as "hotwire" the car, the car automatically shuts down. It is literally impossible to steal this car, unless you take the computer out and have it programed to remove the factory anti theft on it.

What happens is that you start up the car and it dies within seconds. There is a short in the instrument cluster, which as well as connecting to various other things, also is connected to the fuel pump. My car does not have the computer chip in the key. If this was the case, I would pop out the chip. 
We know the fuel pump is fine. We know there are not any clogs in the fuel system.

Why on earth GM ever put the antitheft on this car I will never know. It is a Grandma and Grandpa car, and is hardly sporty. It is great on the snow and ice, which is something you Aussies need not worry about. In Colorado, this past winter we had two back to back storms, dumping a total of about 60 inches of snow in a week, some spots it was double this (140-280 cm) My car has all wheel drive on it as well as traction control. You can hit a switch to take these off, adn just drive in front wheel drive.

I just want the car fixed. I have a great mechanic, but parts are a nightmare to come by since the Olds is no loner being manufactured.

I have a guy that can send me parts. but he is helping a friend with cancer. I hope he can mail me the parts this weekend.

Thanks again

Ada5is


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Evening ada5is, I must agree that certainly sounds like questionable design.

I would love to have a look at the schematic diagram for that vehicle, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to have to dismantle the dash to do a repair, surely there would be a control relay for the anti-theft or similar device in the thing.

My 4WD is simple design, manual lock hubs and a couple of gear sticks, Japanese reliability, but it is not as nice as driving a car, where I am it is semi-tropical so we never even see any frost.
But the roads melt at times!! LOL!!

I think the last Oldsmobiles we saw here were in the late forties!!! LOL!!
They were decent cars!!!

I wish you the best of luck with that machine. 

Cheers, qldit.


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## ada5is (May 1, 2007)

The instrument panel is built directly into the instrument cluster, so it is actually just one piece. My dash doesn't look good so I am going to get that replaced as well. GM has done some nightmarish things to some of their cars, much like the Honda transmissions of the 80's. 

My part I need fixed is on its way. I can get it and have it put in by my mechanic. My other stuff may be shipped freight to get here. I will have to see.

I will let you now how the car turns out.

Ada5is


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Morning ada5is, I wish you well with that job, I hate having to pull dashes out of cars, there are always so many hidden screws and loads of other stuff to disconnect.

I strongly suggest you get the maintenance manual for it, there would probably be some precautions with the airbags and some of that stuff.
You will probably need to take the steering wheel off and all that garbage as well!

Better you than I on that one "gunga din", make sure you mark the exact position of the steering wheel on it's spline! I hope that airbag isn't a problem!

I hope you don't experience any incompatibility problems with that different model dash!

Good Luck, Cheers, qldit.


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