# Fans



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Hello guys.
Simply: 
I built this new PC, im happy with the cool temperatures (since systme and cpu is always under 30 deg Celcius) but still I would like to add a fan or two *(intake or one on the side of the chassi)*.

My only concern is, how exactly do I connect/install a fan? I mean are there always places to connect the extra fans to on the motherboard?

And, how much extra power would a fan or two take? Will one have to upgrade to a better PSU?

Is there any specific watt that a 120mm fan takes?

Both of the fans will probally be cheap ones, as long as they make it cooler




> Cooler Master Elite 310 Black/Silver Fans: 1x 120mm Bak, ATX, mATX, 2x USB, 1x Audio, 17 dBA
> Chieftec Smart Series 550W PSU ATX 12V V2.3, Standard, 1x 6pin+1x 6+2pin PCIe, 6x SATA, 120mm Fan
> AMD Athlon II X2 250, 3,0Ghz, AM3, 2MB, 65W, Boxed
> Kingston ValueR. DDR3 1333MHz 4GB, CL9, Kit w/two matched ValueRAM 2GB DDR3
> ...


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Also, i have 2 old PC´s, what would you guys recommend i take from it, is the fans something okay to take? Theyre about 7-9 years old both!

They both have CPU fans and "exhaust" fans


----------



## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

What case do you have? Generally a fan or two will not draw enough power to worry about


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

The case is listed in the quote in my first post:
edit: sorry, i posted the wrong case, its actually this:

*
Ace Ecco 420 Midi Tower Black *










and at the moment i only have 1 fan in the back (exhaust one)

(And ofcourse theres a fan on the GPU, CPU and PSU


----------



## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

Sorry . . I missed that.

The case looks to have a space in the front to blow air in and over the hard drives and the side panel looks to have a spot to put a fan.

If you do not have enough power connections on the board, you can connect the fans to one of the molex connections frm the power supply . . just be sure to buy fans with those connections. I like the Antecx tricool fins . . three speed so you can adjust for the best combination of air flow vs. noise


----------



## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

Hamada90 said:


> The case is listed in the quote in my first post:
> edit: sorry, i posted the wrong case, its actually this:


opps . . scratch my earlier post then. I can't find a photo that shows the front in enough detail to tell if it will take a fan up there. Is there room in the case?


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Hi Hamada :wave:

It's worth experimenting with the side-panel fan(s) - When I had my fan blowing room-air in, the overall temps went upwards by approx 5C (The 'sideways' blast disrupts the smooth airflow from front-to-back). 

Turning it round to suck the hot air out has now dropped my temps by approx 7C-10C from having no side-fan.


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

*Simpswr* Heh thanks for your post, Im pretty sure theres a room in the lower section on the frontpanel, looked inside it and there seems to be a perfect place for a 120mm fan to be hanging at 

*WereBo* Ahh okay, at the moment all Ive got is one exhaust fan (+ 1 GPU, 1 CPU and 1 PSU ofcourse..) So yeah, theres a room for an intake fan without a doubt. Somehow I feel like the intake (and no sidepanel one) would be the best way to go, but I cant say anything until ive tried. The reason Im saying this is because of the position my PC is placed in, I mean, its not clenched together between something but there are only about 3-5 inches of clear "room" on the side for it, but the front/back have without the doubt the potential of moving clean direct air into/out of it.

Dumb question: The sidepanel fan, should the air go in/out?


Are there any other things I should think about when buying a fan or two? Except for the connectors.

And about the Motherboard, I will have to get back to you on how many free slots I have/if I even have any heh, it should be a regular 3 pin one right?


----------



## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

The general rule is that front and side fans blow in, rear and top fans blow out . . but Werebo's experience would have me try it with the side fan blowing in and out and testing the effectiveness


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Ah..... two in one out.. Hmm yeah Id have to experiment with it a bit too once i get my hands on one or two soon then~~


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

WereBo said:


> Turning it round to suck the hot air out has now dropped my temps by approx 7C-10C from having no side-fan.


I must concur with WereBo. Blowing air in from the side rarely, if ever, works to cool anything. 

In my opinion, from personal experience and practice, it is better to have more air being exhausted from the case than being forced in. I could go into a long winded explanation, but I will save the thread space ;-)


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Yep, there's still enough gaps and holes to prevent the case collapsing from internal vacuum pressure :grin:


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Haha oh, yeah I guess.. I thought about it, and a sidefan does feel a bit stupid really, considering..well like thousands of reason.. I guess ill just get an intake one!
Any special technical stuff to look for?


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Apart from whether you want LED-lit fans (+ what colour), the main things are how noisy they are and how much air they can shove (Oh, don't forget to check the socket fitted :wink.


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

WereBo said:


> Apart from whether you want LED-lit fans (+ what colour), the main things are how noisy they are and how much air they can shove (Oh, don't forget to check the socket fitted :wink.


Ah okay, well personally Im too lazy to order it on the net and wait for it so I would probally just go to some store and buy one right off the shelves, everything I should need to know will probally be on the package I hope?

dB?, connector etc etc?


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Mmmmmmm.... Possibly.... :grin:

If your local store has a web-site, you could try browsing it to see if there's any specs given, then go visit the shop to buy them - Failing that, check what breed of fans they sell, then google the make+model for the specs.

When in the shop, check the fan's box and, if it can open, take a peek inside to check the connector.


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

WereBo said:


> Mmmmmmm.... Possibly.... :grin:
> 
> If your local store has a web-site, you could try browsing it to see if there's any specs given, then go visit the shop to buy them - Failing that, check what breed of fans they sell, then google the make+model for the specs.
> 
> When in the shop, check the fan's box and, if it can open, take a peek inside to check the connector.


Ahh, si siii! Thank you guys for all the help ill get back if theres anything


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

last question!

Is there anything wrong slaying an old 7-8 year old PC and stealing the casefan from it?

it should work with the new if everythings ok right?


----------



## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

most 7-8 year old pc will have 80mm fans . . not 120's


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Ah true... but.. what would you guys do if you had like 4-5 old fans, mostly 80mm.. I mean instead of throwing them away, cant i put them to good use, extra exhaust/intake?


----------



## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

You can . . I would toss them


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Looking at the picture of your case, it can take 2 80mm fans on the side - After fitting any new ones front and/or rear, it might be worth having a play, trying the old ones in the side panel. That way, it won't cost anything for a worthwhile experiment, testing what difference 1 or 2 decent ones would make.

After 7-8 years of use, they'd be getting to the end of their life now, worn bearings etc. For the cost of new ones, it's not worth keeping them otherwise.


----------



## nbjeter3 (Aug 19, 2010)

Personally, 80mm fans have too much noise for the amount of air they push. The only high volume (air movement as well as noise) 80mm I've found were the Tornadoes. You need a fan controller for those though as they will literally float on a desk when placed face down.. lol. 

If I had a bunch of 80mm's I think I'd have to grab the superglue, some Plexi, a soldering iron, and an old AC Adapter from something (at least 12V 500-1000 milli-amp) and build me a personal geek fan :grin:. But that's just me. I do strange things with old parts. You can even snaz it up a bit by adding fan grills and led's in the plexi if ya want.. heheh


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Haha wow, I like how youve all got your own ideas haha... And by the way, thanks WereBo for pointing out its 2 80 mm and not 2 120mm that could be fitted in there... I didnt bother checking until you pointed that out hehe, not even sure if a 120 would fit there!


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

If you already had the 120mm fans, there's an 'adapter-cowling' available, that can fit a 120mm fan onto 80mm-spaced holes, or visa-verce - I don't think 2 would fit that close together though :wink:


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Alright fellas, I went to one of the biggest techstores here in Sweden and I was lucky to find this "*Xilence Case fan, 120mm Red Wing - PWM*", Ill use it as a Intake fan I guess. 
The reason I say lucky is because they were clearing out on some stuff and he had three fans left, and since he seller wanted to get ridd of it quickly he told me I could have anyone I wanted for 49:- SEK (*thats 6 US dollars*). Now im not sure what the prices on fans like these are in the US, but over here theyre usually between 200-399 SEK, this specific one I was told had a pricetag of 249 before (*34 US dollars*). _*Now, I need you pro-guys help, is this even a decent/good intake fan?*_
Specs and picture:
*Fan Dimensions: 120 x 120 x 25mm
Net weight: 175 g
Rated Voltage: 12 VDC
Operating Voltage: 10.8 ~13.2 VDC
Starting Voltage: 7 VDC
Rated Current: 0.09 A +- 10% (max)
Power Input: 1.08 W
Bearing Type: Hydro Bearing
Fan Speed: 1500 RPM +- 10% (max)
Max Air Flow: 57.91 CFM
Connector type: Small 4pin
Noise Level: 21.2 dB (At 1500 RPM)*
*Picture:*










And whats PWM, I know what it stands for but the wikipedia article makes me dizzy..


----------



## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

I've not heard of that brand, but that does not mean much. Probably the only way to tell is to give it a try . . for 49 SEK you can't go wrong. It may be louder than a quality fan . or it may not.


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

simpswr said:


> I've not heard of that brand, but that does not mean much. Probably the only way to tell is to give it a try . . for 49 SEK you can't go wrong. It may be louder than a quality fan . or it may not.


Actually, I think the decibel of it running at 1500 is atleast good, i checked out this high quality (forgot its name, but its kinda brownish) "luxury" fan as he clerk called it, and the decibel of it running at 1200 RPM was 17.9 I think.

This one can run at 300 RPM more (1500) with the small increase of 4 dB.. not sure how much 4 dB is but I think ill survive it hehe.

Ill install it in a bit, I was wondering, considering I wanna make this one an intake fan, how do I place it? (Dumbest question ever huh..? )


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

Nah, look at the side of the fan, there are usually two arrows, one pointing the length of the fan (that is fan spin direction) the other is pointing the thickness, that is direction of airflow. Just make that arrow face into the case for intake and out of the case for exhaust.


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

In very basic terms, 'PWM' is a method of using a variable 'control-voltage' to change the fan's speed, according to how cool and/or noisy you want it. It does this by using 'magic' :grin:


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Hahahahah... by using "magic", I wanted a simple explanation but ill be fine with the kiddie-explanation haha 

And thanks gavinzach 

My system temperature is already running cool, but its cold where I live, the system/cpu never goes above 32 (usually 25-30) but it can get a bit rough during the summers/when the system has turned a bit older with more dust in it.
At the moment its only about 2 weeks old..

But I should still be able to see a temperature decrease right?
Is 30 mins enough to leave it at idle mode to check temperatures? (before/after)


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Well, you wanted a simple explanation :grin:

Yes, 20-30 mins is about right for idle-temps.


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

You may or may not see a marked temp decrease.
You should see the biggest decrease in temperature with the computer running under load. The more air moving through the case should lower your ambient temps allowing your heatsinks to lower the temps of the chipset, CPU and GPU. Your idle temps should remain relatively constant.


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Aaah... sii sii.. Thanks for the explanation.
Yeah I can tell you right away that as soon as I turn a game on, lets say Cod MW2 the GPU temp will climb from 3x to 65+ celcius in only seconds! But the System/CPU arent as easily affected (at the moment theyre 29/24 C)

GPU is 39C now, I turned on the MSI Afterburner and that furry 3D object made it climb up to 61 in less than 60 secs!


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Okay guys, *problemo up!*
The fan is a 4pin, the one I have on my motherboard is a 3pin.

The Fan is a PWM one, so... I read about that I can still connect a 4pin to a 3pin, but it might not be as effective... 
Main issue is, what will all the problems/cons if i connect it and it does work?

Will I Still be able to alter the speeds and will it be able to alter the speeds itself? I mean I dont want it to be running at 25, 50, 75 or 100% at all time, I Want it to be able to adjust itself just like any systemfan out there...is this possible?

I would appreciate a quick answer if thats possible since im working on this right now


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Okay I installed it 100% now, 4pin ON the 3pin.
Opened up SpeedFan:
Fan 1 (the normal stock one that came with PC) is running at *3145 RPM!* (100% max, just to test)
Fan 2 (the one I bought) is running at maximum 1532 (100 max, just to test).

First off, I did NOT expect my stock case fan to be that powerful, 3145 RPM... its double the one I bought, which I thought would be more powerfull.


----------



## nbjeter3 (Aug 19, 2010)

larger Fan = More [email protected] speeds. Fan Speed is not always a good indicator of airflow. You can go pick up an Air speed Meter and it will show you the differences.


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

'Speedfan' is handy, cos it gives your temps at a glance in the System-Tray, but it does need 'calibrating' to your system.

The CPU temps should be viewable in the BIOS, or you can DL and install '*PC Wizard 2010*' which will show your CPU + GPU temps - The Speedfan temps can then be offset to show the same as the PC-Wizard numbers.

It's also useful cos Speedfan doesn't label what the temps are, just meaningless 'Temp 1', Temp 2' etc., PC-Wizard identifies each temperature so, unless you have 2 identical temperatures showing, you can work out which 'Temp x' is what.


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Ah okay, well my biggest concern is that im running a 4pin fan on a 3pinner connection, Im guessing the PWM is not active then, what am I loosing in this case since my fans are running at max speed (95-100%) at all time I think..

And by the way, Im using MSI afterburner and some other program which I forgot the name off.. they both give me the System/GPU/CPU temperature and fan speeds etc, and yeah Ive rechecked them in BIOS.

What % should two system fans be running at?


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

To be honest, I haven't the faintest idea, I can't even remember what the RPM for my fans are









My CPU is using a stock heatsink/fan from a lower-powered CPU (I upgraded the chip from Athlon 4200+ to 6000+) and is 45-46C - My GeForce GTS 250 does what it has to, to show 65C when running '*[email protected]*' or 56C at idle.

My front 120mm + 1 of the rear 80mm-fans are on full speed (Molex connected), t'other rear 80mm-fan and the 80mm side exhaust-fan are controlled by the mobo. 

I don't use Speedfan to regulate the fans, only to show the temperatures as/when I need 'em.


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Ah okay, yeah I can admit to using Speedfan for mostly temps too, and just to check if the fans are running OK every now and then..

Besides a PSU/GPU/CPU fan, all I have now is an intake and exhaust fan yeah..

But I must say though, I feel kind of skeptical when it comes to the new intake fan that I bought.. I mean, it feels like there is so much blocking it.. first we have the filter infront of it, and then theres the case itself which you can see a picture of on page 1 on this thread..

Ahwell, I just hope that the intake will be more effective than I think


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Adding the front intake-fan made a huge difference to my PC, despite having similar doubts with all the gubbins behind the fan (misc. cables stashed, HDD's, metalware + a 'converted' vacuum-cleaner filter stuck in the front plastic grille etc.)

I just hope the front fan has easier mounting access than my case, I had to melt some of the plastic away to get to the screw-holes, using a butane-powered soldering iron :grin:


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Ohh! Buthane powered soldering iron..poor you bud! 
So.. is that your only filter, you dont cover that up with anything else? That _would_ be alot better airwise (and maybe a con considering the dust that can enter through the big holes). 

Because the filter that I have is ALOT tighter and catches upp pretty much every little dustparticle, aaand over that Ive got that tight case to add upp on it too which only has a couple small holes too..


----------



## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

the 3 pin will fit in the 4 pin slot but the control if it has them may not work however the Bios control if your bios has it should.

When choosing fans look for CFM this is how much air it can push 57 which is what your is but I always choose antec tri cool fans which are about the same as yours and cool my system well.


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Ah thanks greenbrucelee, Yeah I decided to just stick the 4pinner right onto the 3pin slot and its running at full RPM at all times (95 or 100% i think) which i take is a good sign its using all the capacity.. I hope.

Oh okay, so im glad 57 cfm is good/decent then.. yeah I mean, the fan I have, I did feel like it was pretty powerful, in comparison to the stock exhaust one, but im unhappy with the whole case and filter covering it up.. im going to see if theres anything I can do about it, especially the case!


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

@ Hamada - Hehehehe..... I've got a butane soldering-iron 'cos it's handy for when I'm doing any wiring on my car - I've also got an electric iron, but it's only a 15W one, it took ages to melt the plastic :grin:

Yep, that's the only filter I use, seeing as it's the only inlet-fan. My case is only a cheapo Jeantech Titan and full of holes anyway - Any vacuum formed inside sucks air/dust in from everywhere - Especially as Mrs WereBo is a textile-craft freak, hence lots and lots of dust :laugh:











I just clean it out once a month, as part of it's maintenance routine.


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

Haha Mrs WeRebo, yeah I understand you bud!

Yeah well, arent there crazy amounts of dust going in?

A tight filter is always almost better to have on the intake, since its the air going out, while an exhaust fan should not have one since thats where all the ugly stuff goes out from! 










Thats my cheapocase! Imagine that, right behind that square lies a red 120mm fan that isnt even visible at all, thanks to the filter and case blocking so much air 
Not only that, as you may have noticed, the Power button and USB, mic/sound ports and HDMI are all there, they all have some small wires too that also cross the fan - blocking even more!

Funny thing is that, I can actually move that fan and place it right under the DVD, there is a perfect spot for the 120mm to be sitting at, im just unsure of whether it would hit the mobo and other components as good as the spot its sitting at right now.


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Ideally, the front intake should be as low as possible - As the air heats up, it rises and gets sucked out the higher exhaust fans and also, as the airflow hits the back of the case, it circulates upwards over the mobo+hot-bits and also gets sucked out.


----------



## Old Rich (May 31, 2007)

This one of my cases . . still trying to find a place for a filter:


----------



## GZ (Jan 31, 2010)

LOVE the cable management!!!


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

simpswr said:


> This one of my cases . . still trying to find a place for a filter:


Why not just throw a couple of mosquito-nets over the whole lot? :grin:


----------



## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

WereBo said:


> Why not just throw a couple of mosquito-nets over the whole lot? :grin:


Actually in the past I have made a filter using one of these :grin:


----------



## Hamada90 (Aug 21, 2010)

simpswr - pure artwork! 

WereBo, yeah thats actually not a bad idea haha, and that kitchen thingy (Its so obvious im ultra manly huh? I let the girls worry bout the name of that tool!) that greenbrucelee suggested isnt as bad either!

The question is just, how bad do I have to kill my frontcase to make it look good..


----------



## Acuta73 (Mar 17, 2008)

You can buy aluminum screen for cheap without having to tear up the other-half's kitchen utensils! lol

I'm the curmudgeon that always hates on filters, though. Good airflow will pass most of the dust through, and a can of air on the CPU/GPU heatsinks about once a month usually does it without choking off your fans.

In context: My son's Tempest EVO has been running for 6 months, I've had to blow the heatsinks once. My Antec 900 has to be cleaned out thoroughly once a month without fail or my temps skyrocket and I have to call in a professional trapper to take care of dust bunnies the size of St. Bernards (they've got BIG TEETH!!)...both towers sit about 4 feet from each other.


----------



## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

Ssrogg said:


> You can buy aluminum screen for cheap without having to tear up the other-half's kitchen utensils! lol
> 
> I'm the curmudgeon that always hates on filters, though. Good airflow will pass most of the dust through, and a can of air on the CPU/GPU heatsinks about once a month usually does it without choking off your fans.
> 
> In context: My son's Tempest EVO has been running for 6 months, I've had to blow the heatsinks once. My Antec 900 has to be cleaned out thoroughly once a month without fail or my temps skyrocket and I have to call in a professional trapper to take care of dust bunnies the size of St. Bernards (they've got BIG TEETH!!)...both towers sit about 4 feet from each other.


I have the Antec 1200 and it has a few more fans than the 900. I have to clean it once a month but I would do it regardless of what system I had.


----------



## WereBo (Apr 5, 2008)

Hamada90 said:


> simpswr - pure artwork!
> 
> WereBo, yeah thats actually not a bad idea haha, and that kitchen thingy (Its so obvious im ultra manly huh? I let the girls worry bout the name of that tool!) that greenbrucelee suggested isnt as bad either!
> 
> The question is just, how bad do I have to kill my frontcase to make it look good..


The kitchen sieve is made of metal, which (mostly) comes under men's hobbies :grin: 

As to how much to kill your case, depends entirely on your tastes (and skills) - I could waffle for hours about how cool deep blues/purples/reds look, but someone else loves yellows/greens etc. :laugh:

If you're unsure about how to decorate something, try on a piece of scrap stuff first to practice the technique(s) and/or looks then, if you get stumped, there's plenty of folks here to help out.


----------

