# 1997 Pontiac Grand Am engine wont start.



## DH2008 (Apr 20, 2008)

3.1 L V6
my car had started running bad lately, it had slow acceleration and low power. Then one day it died suddenly on the side of the road and when i tried to start it again there was a loud clicking noise and the car could not idle under its own power and died quickly. I replaced all the spark plugs and coil packs and still did not run. I cant even crank the engine by hand. Ive heard timing chain, starter, and many other things but not sure what is wrong. Please help if you can. im pretty new to the world of working on cars so i need as much description possible:4-dontkno


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Morning DH2008, actually this kind of problem could be caused by a failed alternator and the battery becoming depleted.

Can you confirm the battery is good and is properly charged?

Can you confirm the battery terminals a clean, proper and secure?

If all the above is proper can you confirm if the engine is cranking properly?

If you obtain and use a small voltmeter could be very helpful.

I suspect your problem may simply be low voltage, this could account for all the described symptoms.
The voltage across the battery should be slightly above 12 V DC possibly as much as 12.5 volts or so in a fully charged battery, and then if the engine is cranked should not drop below 9 volts during cranking.

This is a good place to start analysing your problem.

Others will have different ideas.

Cheers, qldit.


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## DH2008 (Apr 20, 2008)

i have a brand new battery in, and the alternator had been changed recently as well. So far ive replaced the thermostat, water pump, as long with the things ive already told you about. i keep thinking timing chain, but im not sure where to locate that or how to change it


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi DH2008 and welcome to TSF

The first thing to do if to determine if the problem is ignition or fuel. 
A good way to test the fuel, is to get a can of starter fluid and spray a shot into the intake manifold and see if it starts, but then dies. The fluid needs to be sprayed into the manifold, not the air filter box. Remove the large hose form the filter box to the intake manifold. If you can keep it running with an ocassional spray of fluid, then the problem is fuel supply. 

If the starter fluid test don't indicate fuel supply problem, then try this: Get an extra spark plug or pull one out of the engine and lay it on the engine block. Connect the spark wire to it and have someone crank the engine over while you watch for a good blue spark across the plug gap. 

See if one of these will tell which dirrection to persue and post back.

Kind regards,
Mack1


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Morning DH2008, the engine valve timing can be checked using a simple procedure.

I would firstly do a complete engine compression test, that will also give additional information to help confirm what may have happened.

To confirm if the valve timing is incorrect is easy enough.

You will need to remove a tappet cover to allow you to see number one cylinder tappets.

Removing the sparkplugs makes this easier because you need to manually rotate the crankshaft, by hand or with a spanner etc.

Now rotate the engine to create number one cylinder on its inlet / outlet cycle, (not the compression stroke) this will allow you to see the inlet valve just about to open and the the exhaust valve just closed. This is called "rocking" the point where transition is about to occur.

At this point number one piston must be at perfect top dead centre.

If there is no crankshaft TDC indicator you can put a fine piece of wood or a fine rod down number one sparkplug hole and carefully determine as that piston begins to drop, determine the point eitherside by carefully turning the crank by hand backward and forward and you should be able to confirm prettywell where TDC actually occurs. 
Suitably mark the balance pulley and confirm if this is the point of valve rocking.

This is a standard procedure and will be accurate and simple.

If you find the valve rocking position is more than a few degees away from TDC you can relatively confidently say the timing is wrong.

All the best, 

Cheers, qldit.


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## BUDFAN8 (Apr 11, 2007)

is the car backfiring through the intake or in the exaust? usually a good sign of timing being off. 

check your oil see if it is milky or see if the antifreeze is getting a brown resin in it. those motors are terrible about the intake gaskets going bad. usually wont make the car die but keep an eye on that anyway.

if you find you have no spark (by the starting fluid not starting the car) you may want to try the crank sensor. if the starting fluid dose start the car you may want to look at fuses/ relays to the fuel pump or even the fuel pump itsself.

good luck 
Bud.


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## RIGHTE0US (Jan 7, 2008)

a 3100 engine?...if so, I hate to say it, but you've blown your engine due to antifreeze leaking into the oilpan from the intake leaking. extremely common problem with these cars. I end up changing about 4 engines a month due to this as people ignore engine lights if the car runs fine


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## DH2008 (Apr 20, 2008)

does anyone know where the timing chain is located and how to change it?


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## qldit (Mar 26, 2007)

Good Morning DH2008, at this point is becomes quite involved.

I strongly recommend obtaining a Haynes type service manual specific for that vehicle from your auto supermarket.

Most often replacing a timing chain is a quite involved job and will need access to the front of the engine, this generally needs radiator removal and other components.

The timing chain lives inside a cover on the front of the engine and requires significant work to access and satisfactorily replace.

The setting up procedure is involved, and needs reference points to be specifically aligned, this information is explained in the manual.

There are practices that need to be observed including inspection of the chain tensioning system and it's components.

Are you quite sure it requires replacing?

Most often it may be pertinent to carry out other engine work at the same time, including engine cylinder head overhaul etc.

Special tools may be required to do this work, including a "puller" for the harmonic balancer. 

This is not the kind of job for an inexperienced newbie to attack without consideration for the overall work involved and a manual to follow.

Others will have different ideas.

Cheers, qldit.


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi DH200,



> I cant even crank the engine by hand.


How did you try to crank the engine by hand? 
Will the starter not turn the engine over with a charged battery?

You said that you were new at the game of doing your own repair. We may not have explained some to the things we were asking to do well enough. The normal way to repair an automobile is to find the problem and replace/repair it. You can spend a lot of time and money changing out parts that are not bad. 

That said, re-read some of the posts about and you will see that everyone was telling you to troubleshoot. You know, find the problem and replace the right part. 
If you had been with us earlier, you probably wouldn't been asked to replace the waterpump or thermostat unless the engine was running hot. If you had spark, you wouldn't been asked to replace the plugs and coil packs. 

Here's something you should do. Go to your local auto parts store and get a maintenance book on you car. It will show all you need to know about the timing chain and associated gears. Also how much slack is acceptable and how to line up the chain with the gears on reinstalling. 

Best of luck,
Mack1


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## RIGHTE0US (Jan 7, 2008)

I believe this engine may be a roller rocker motor. The loud clicking sound you heard from attempting to start the car was from lack of oil within the engine..I'm gathering you were having issues with coolant leaking as you stated you changed the water pump. These engines run hot to begin with yet I'm wondering if you bled the collant system. Most people arent aware they have to do this, thus the engine overheats topside from having air where collant should be. That would explain the clicking sound as it had to cool off before it could turn over. The backfiring and so on is caused by damage to the cam and lifters from the oil being thinned out from the heat. These engines rarely need a timing chain replaced from my experience.


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## DH2008 (Apr 20, 2008)

alright thanks..any other ideas RIGHTEOUS?


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## Volt-Schwibe (Jan 12, 2003)

how many miles are on the engine?

if it's 150,000 or more, it just might be a timing chain, even if it's a rare problem, most timing chains wear out at anywhere around 120k-180k miles.


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## RIGHTE0US (Jan 7, 2008)

Tell ya what... get an oil pressure guage, remove sending unit and get back to me with how much pressure you have on crank over. I'm about sure you killed the entire top half of the engine due to running with that overheating issue.


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