# Windows 7 vs 8 vs 10



## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

Mac user here with a genuine question...

How does Windows 7 vs Windows 8 vs Windows 10 compare?

(I think most people felt Window 8 sucked?)

The reason for my question is that I am interested in pursuing some certifications like A+, Network+, Security+ and maybe even Cisco certs.

I am reasonably knowledgeable about Macs and Mac security, but haven't used a PC in over a decade (i.e. XP).

It seems like if you want to get into networking and security, for some strange reason they want you to know/use PCs...

I have an ASUS Notepad that I think upgraded to Windows10, but it is like using a child's toy.

Am considering breaking down and buying a PC, but first want to understand which version of Windows would be best to learn - knowing that "newst" is not always "bestest"!! :grin:

I welcome thoughts and suggestions from my Windows neighbors!


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

There's not much difference in the three systems. Sometimes I think terminology is changed to confuse people. The "modern" systems are basically Windows NT, 2.0.


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Just like OSX 10.xx versions have a few tweaks here and there, the basic functionality is the same throughout all of those.
The same with Windows. Once you get used to Windows 10, you won't get lost if you run into a Windows 7 machine. 
The reason why Networking and Security use Windows is because the majority of businesses use Windows machines and Servers. Artsy Design, Film, and Music studio business use Macs exclusively, but any big corporation is going to have Windows machines.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

Allegheny said:


> Mac user here...
> I am interested in pursuing some certifications like A+, Network+, Security+ and maybe even Cisco certs.
> 
> I am reasonably knowledgeable about Macs and Mac security, but haven't used a PC in over a decade (i.e. XP).
> ...


Perhaps it would be best to first get terminologies right, when considering pursuing those fields. While I understand your usage of "PC" to refer to computers running Microsoft Windows, the term refers to ALL Personal Computers, which includes Apple computers (MAC) and mobile devices as well (Tablet PCs) that run OS other than MAC OS and Windows. If this is not clarified, meaning could easily be lost in interpretation. I wouldn't encourage loosely using the term PC to differentiate computers running Windows from those running MAC OS.


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

Stancestans said:


> Perhaps it would be best to first get terminologies right, when considering pursuing those fields. While I understand your usage of "PC" to refer to computers running Microsoft Windows, the term refers to ALL Personal Computers, which includes Apple computers (MAC) and mobile devices as well (Tablet PCs) that run OS other than MAC OS and Windows. If this is not clarified, meaning could easily be lost in interpretation. I wouldn't encourage loosely using the term PC to differentiate computers running Windows from those running MAC OS.


Then you're too young to understand the term...

"PC" always meant Windows-based PC. (Never in 30 years have I heard anyone think "PC" meant a Mac.)

Maybe they use the term differently today, but not in the 25 years I've been in IT. :smile:


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## jenae (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi, the term PC refers to personal computer, and as the Mac is a personal computer it could be considered a PC, originally it was, then the IBM compatible PC evolved and as Mac is not IBM compatible, the term PC came to refer to IBM compatible computers.

I have yet to meet anyone who didn't know the difference, so PC refers to a windows computer.

My advice would be to go for windows ten, there have been considerable modifications to 10 over 7, especially in memory usage and security, this will continue to evolve as win 10 is seen as a service and twice yearly updates roll out. It is also highly tweakable and lends itself to many different usage requirements.


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

jenae said:


> Hi, the term PC refers to personal computer, and as the Mac is a personal computer it could be considered a PC, originally it was, then the IBM compatible PC evolved and as Mac is not IBM compatible, the term PC came to refer to IBM compatible computers.
> 
> I have yet to meet anyone who didn't know the difference, so PC refers to a windows computer.


Kids these days... :grin:




jenae said:


> My advice would be to go for windows ten, there have been considerable modifications to 10 over 7, especially in memory usage and security, this will continue to evolve as win 10 is seen as a service and twice yearly updates roll out. It is also highly tweakable and lends itself to many different usage requirements.


I suspected there WAS a difference, and you have confirmed that.

I asked because I work for a major bank, and they still use Windows 7.

Hopefully learning Windows 10 isn't too much for someone who used to use XP and NT...


Also, since my goal is to get my A+, Network+ and Security+, any thoughts on what would be a good PC to get?

(As a Mac guy, it hurts having to go buy a PC and switch back, but it looks like if I want to get into security, it is a necessity...)


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

The "kids" you speak on this forum are older "Seasoned" veterans who have been in IT longer then you.
That being said, in the beginning of the dark ages in the 1980's when the *P*ersonal *C*omputer was first introduced as Apple II and then the IBM PC, both brands were called* PC*'s. (ie) the Apple *PC.* Once Macintosh came out, to differentiate between Apple and IBM, IBM computers became known as *PC*'s. 
Anywho, Learn Windows 10, the core functionality is similar to XP, just the graphical interface is different. But you can download a program called Classicshell that makes it look like XP or Windows 7 so you can easily navigate through it.
It is a good thing to know both Mac and PC's.


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

spunk.funk said:


> The "kids" you speak on this forum are older "Seasoned" veterans who have been in IT longer then you.
> 
> That being said, in the beginning of the dark ages in the 1980's when the *P*ersonal *C*omputer was first introduced as Apple II and then the IBM PC, both brands were called* PC*'s. (ie) the Apple *PC.* Once Macintosh came out, to differentiate between Apple and IBM, IBM computers became known as *PC*'s.


I started programming in the early 80s, so I'm hardly new to IT.

My point was anyone who asks, "By PC do you mean Windows PC or Mac PC?" is a "kid" in IT terms because I haven't heard anyone get confused on what is meant by a PC in the last 30 years.

I agree it's a confusing term, but everyone I know in IT knows what it means regardless.

Just sayin..




spunk.funk said:


> Anywho, Learn Windows 10, the core functionality is similar to XP, just the graphical interface is different. But you can download a program called Classicshell that makes it look like XP or Windows 7 so you can easily navigate through it.


What would be a good laptop to buy?

I hate having to buy a computer for my endeavors, but such is life..





spunk.funk said:


> It is a good thing to know both Mac and PC's.


I agree.


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

The reason to get a laptop is to be mobile, or to save space. If you are going to be using a computer at a desk all the time without moving, then you should get a desktop, especially if you are going to get an A+ certificate. The test is based on hardware in a desktop computer.
If getting a laptop, I personally and arguably feel that Lenovo is the best brand of laptop currently


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

spunk.funk said:


> The reason to get a laptop is to be mobile, or to save space. If you are going to be using a computer at a desk all the time without moving, then you should get a desktop, especially if you are going to get an A+ certificate. The test is based on hardware in a desktop computer.
> If getting a laptop, I personally and arguably feel that Lenovo is the best brand of laptop currently


I'm doing this on the road, so a desktop is out of the question.

From what I have heard, the A+ no longer really tests hardware to the point of where you'd need to crack a case. (Besides, I used to build my own PCs...)

Sounds like it is more OS based (like RedEdit).

What do you think about ASUS?

Does anyone make a nice aluminum PC laptop similar to my MacBooks?

And what would a basic PC laptop with Windows 10 run me?

Would I need to break down and buy a "Professional" version of Windows 10, or is an OEM Home Edition or whatever sufficient for my needs?


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-2...D=1&siteID=zhehdLHc0f8-ZfvzNtLYrnHbUP_AAvxvqg
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UCENG14/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&
https://www.amazon.com/12-5-Inch-Ul...sw-20&linkId=abb6e233fbc97f9c5ffd6752f65fec19
https://www.amazon.com/UX330UA-AH54...sw-20&linkId=002a30082a0f5ea9bb3d8231a9290067


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

FWIW, here's some of Apple's old literature for their Macintosh Apple *PC* 5.25 Drive:



















And here's a link on Apple.com that lists it on a "Vintage and obsolete products" page: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

I think Windows 10 Pro is best suited for those *professional* fields you wish to venture into. There are certain utilities that aren't available in Home edition, for example Group Policy Managemen, Domain join, Remote Desktop, Bitlocker, Hyper-V, etc that I guarantee you will encounter as an IT professional inside and outside class, especially OUTSIDE class, if you haven't already encountered them.

You may also want to get a system with lots of RAM if you will be experimenting using virtual environments. My laptop is a moving lab :grin: and if you're like me, you may not escape the need to have isolated test environments. 8GB RAM and 1TB HDD is my recommended minimum, but you could be better off with more RAM, say 16GB. Screen real estate could be a hinderance on an 14" laptop, but it all comes down to your preferences and tastes.

Those are some nice machines linked by *spunk.funk*


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## Rockrz (Feb 20, 2006)

Corday said:


> There's not much difference in the three systems.


...until we consider the back door MS built in to Win 10 making it easy to get in to any Win 10 PC and check out the data and take it if you'd like!


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## WacoJohn (Jul 18, 2006)

Buy a new W10-64 laptop. They are cheap, .. leading edge, and not much different in USE from earlier Windows versions.


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## mwrmwr (Jul 4, 2010)

Allegheny said:


> Mac user here with a genuine question...
> 
> How does Windows 7 vs Windows 8 vs Windows 10 compare?
> 
> ...


I went from Windows 7 to 10 and found 10 really an improved 7, but much like 7. I bought an Asus Win 10 64-bit laptop last year for (I think) $475. Of course if you spec it higher, it will cost more. I've had no problems at all with it.


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## jxsilicon9 (Sep 22, 2009)

I have all three. So far windows 8.1 is stuck at preparing windows after having to repair it once again. Windows 10 was going into BSOD randomly but I fixed it, now its dropping wifi randomly.Always something with windows 10 and 8.1. Windows 7 is working like it should.


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## Fat.Bear (Apr 2, 2008)

jenae said:


> Hi, the term PC refers to personal computer, and as the Mac is a personal computer it could be considered a PC, originally it was, then the IBM compatible PC evolved and as Mac is not IBM compatible, the term PC came to refer to IBM compatible computers.


Actually, the term "Personal Computer" was around in the 1970s (so was I) as a sort of hopeful objective for where computers would go. There were lots of small outfits trying to make it a reality (I owned an original Osborne I - the first, though impractical, portable computer - after building my own and being unhappy with having to write every stinking mundane bit of software for it.) Some, including Apple, called theirs a "PC". But then along came IBM, the 800 pound gorilla. The IBM compatible PC did not "evolve". IBM released the "IBM Personal Computer" (brand) aka the "IBM PC" (brand) with PC-DOS (not MS-DOS) in 1981.

I remember it very distinctly because I very seriously looked into quitting my high-tech job and buying a franchise for a computer store that was centered around PCs and their software. The excitement within the high-tech world was that they also released schematics and programming libraries and all kinds of support so that outsiders could design hardware and software add-ons. That was a complete reversal for IBM. And that was what allowed the compatible market to evolve.

Before October (I think it was October, I remember the leaves were changing) 1981, a PC was a Personal Computer in everyone's imagination. After that date, a PC was an IBM PC and later an IBM PC Clone or just "PC". As with so many things in human languages, the meaning has changed and it is very impractical to call anything else a PC - even though in the archaic definitionit may mean any personal computer.

The PC will eventually go away. Then maybe the term will become available for re-use. 



> I have yet to meet anyone who didn't know the difference, so PC refers to a windows computer.


Yup.



> My advice would be to go for windows ten, .


Yup. Microsoft has pushed really hard to get everyone off of the older versions and onto Win 10. If you are pursuing this for professional reasons, I can see no advantage to starting off with a out-of-date OS. Most people and companies who can afford to pay you are already on Win 10. Sure, down deep inside the NT versions may have more in common than not, but your customers don't care. I would not hire anyone who has not kept current with the OS they will be supporting or designing for.


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## NFSRacer (Jul 22, 2008)

Biggest difference has to be the whole mobile platform set up with Windows 8 and 10 vs Windows 7. The mobile apps design they have going does take some getting used to, but considering the Surface tablets and 2-in-1 laptops, it makes sense on there, as it keeps a mobile device look and feel to it.

Windows 8, however, I did enjoy a lot after 8.1 came out, but over all, that was a SERIOUS farcry from the previous OS designs. Works plenty perfect as a mobile platform, but that's about as good as that got for it's new design (I work for AT&T in the US, so I've got a lot of experience with mobile devices).

However in terms of base functionality, both Windows 10 and Windows 8 brought something to the table that was quite handy compared to Windows 7 (although I think it might have just been a RAM issue back then). It seemed like Windows 8 and 10 have a more modular set up in the way the OS runs with the programs. If you're familiar with the Xbox One, it's a similar set up. It keeps the OS from bogging down as much when an app or program crashes. Windows 7 still seemed to do it, even on high-end machines, but I don't know if that was a hardware fault.

But, in the grand scheme of things, base functionality against each other remained primarily unchanged between all three OS types. Windows Defender made a return with Windows 10 (I think), but the way you run the computer still remained mostly the same.


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## jah1350 (Apr 11, 2017)

Allegheny said:


> Then you're too young to understand the term...
> 
> "PC" always meant Windows-based PC. (Never in 30 years have I heard anyone think "PC" meant a Mac.)
> 
> Maybe they use the term differently today, but not in the 25 years I've been in IT. :smile:


PCs not only runs windows, but LINUX also. Therefore, PC does always mean a windows based machine.


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## richfe1 (Nov 20, 2008)

Best bet would to check requirements for the course or courses you plan to take. At the present it seems. Win 10 Would be your choice for general purpose. If it were up to me I would go with Win 10 16 gig ram 1 tb hard drive. Opinions vary but I have done well with Dell over the years, Good luck


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## jah1350 (Apr 11, 2017)

richfe1 said:


> Best bet would to check requirements for the course or courses you plan to take. At the present it seems. Win 10 Would be your choice for general purpose. If it were up to me I would go with Win 10 16 gig ram 1 tb hard drive. Opinions vary but I have done well with Dell over the years, Good luck


I am not looking for a reply, I am stating that PC does NOT always mean a Windows based machine. A PC can also run LINUX. PCs and Macs have quite different operating systems.


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## satrow (Feb 4, 2012)

jah1350 said:


> I am not looking for a reply...


You didn't get a reply, as should have been obvious had you read it.

*richfe1* made some suggestions for the OP, not for you.


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## pcride (Jan 29, 2016)

Let’s slow down here and step back to the OP’s question. The OP said they want to get into networking and security A+\Net+. Those practices are not Mac or “PC”
specific. Subnetting a network, IPV4/6, routing concepts don’t care if your on either platform. I just got my Net and Sec + and honestly none of the content is focused on “PC” /Windows where you need to start on an OS. Also most corporate companies are still running Win7 and only recently migrating to Win 10. IMHO Win10 is much different and garbage in some ways compared to Win7. I’d learn and master Win7 Ultimate then Win10 is just a skin over Win 7 with annoying features that you or any corporate company will not use. An admin will just be turning all those features off in GP.

A+ cert is a little based on Windows environment like server and AD, but more focused on standard computer hardware that a Mac or windows machine uses. You’d be amazed at these large companies still on Win 7... so learn that then learn the whole UEFI and GPT partitions as that’s the biggest change from Win 7 to 10 from a support standpoint. You think any company uses Windows defender? 

I’ve been supporting Fortune 500 companies for over 15 years and just now some of them are starting to move to Win 10. Learn both but start with Win7. 

Security + exam is hard and takes ALOT of studying. Start learning all forms of encryption ,
The pros and cons of each and how to apply them. AES, 802.1x, WPA, WAP, ,DES, 3DES, Dilfihelman, RSA, Blowfish, TwoFish, HashMD5, VPN, TLS, SSL, SSH, IPSec and on and on. You’ll need to know all types of attacks, virus, worm, Trojan, man in the middle, cross site scripting, sql injection, and tons more, you need to know a ton about Network infrastructure, firewalls IPS, Routers etc...

Net + be prepared to master subnetting, network cabeling, Fiber, network speeds, wireless speeds and switches, routing etc , the two hardest exams.


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## pcride (Jan 29, 2016)

Corday said:


> There's not much difference in the three systems. Sometimes I think terminology is changed to confuse people. The "modern" systems are basically Windows NT, 2.0.



The biggest difference is windows used a registry and file structure where Mac does not.

This is the biggest diff between the two.


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## thecomputerwiz (Oct 24, 2008)

Allegheny said:


> Mac user here with a genuine question...
> 
> How does Windows 7 vs Windows 8 vs Windows 10 compare?
> 
> ...


Why hasn't anyone mentioned *VMWare Fusion* for the MAC?  Runs ANY OS, and I use it with no problems on OSX, running Windows 7 and above guest OS's... Last time I purchased it a few years ago, it was about $50 or so, a LOT cheaper than a whole new PC hehe... and you can buy OEM copies of Windows online for a decent price too keeping it legal...

Why buy hardware?


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

The discussion is off the rail. Go back to the original (Post #1) and you'll see what the OP is really asking.


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## Geekomatic (Jul 19, 2010)

Allegheny,

You spoke of XP. In looks & feel, Windows 7 is closest to that. it had better security built-in, but worked similarly to XP (though 64 bit was now becoming the default).

8 was a nightmare. MS's attempt to push out a touch-screen layout to desktops/laptops. MS tried to "fix" with the upgrade to 8.1. In the end, the public balked enough, that MS reintroduced the start button in Windows 10.

From 8 to 10, there have been security advances-- which will vary depending on your version of 10. Win 10, currently, is doing "all right", but I have an awful lot of clients calling who have their systems broken by 10 upgrades-- which the end-user CANNOT control, along with no drivers for their existing equipment. MS "pushes" updates, to the chagrin of the hardware owner. There are a whole lot of broken PC's after a Windows update.

The biggest thing now is how much data is being scooped from the computer owner (MS prefers to refer to their base as, "user", as-in an addict-- not a coincidence I feel. Not "client", not customer", but user...hmm). Then there's the dictate from MS to AMD/Intel-- no Win 10 computer using the newest CPU will be able to be installed with even a purchased copy of anything except Win 10. Yep. Your hardware purchase-- appropriated.

I like Win 7. I think this was MS's shining moment. I think Win 10 is a data miner in disguise. Time will tell.


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## axe0 (Jun 15, 2016)

Allegheny said:


> Kids these days... :grin:


I think I would be one of those kids, came in touch with Windows XP a year before Windows Vista was released when I was 5-10 years old. Windows Vista was quite a PITA if I remember correctly with all the security settings that were somehow improperly configured.
Bought my laptop the summer before I went to college in 2013 with Windows 8 and when I was in college I was the Windows expert of the family.

In regards to the PC discussion, a few years ago my supervisor had a MAC which he referred to as a PC. In fact, I was the sole person (intern) who had a Windows system and everyone referred to their system as a PC.

If you're going to learn Windows, I would recommend both Windows 7 and 10. 10 is better in quite some things, but 7 is still used much more. If you want to go into a business after you got those certs it's very likely you'll need to be very familiair Windows 7. If you don't have such plans or anything after those certs I would recommend Windows 10, although it will definitely be worthwhile to check them both.


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## MIKLO (Feb 25, 2009)

*As far as I'm concerned there is not much difference in any of the three, except the way Window$ 10 comes with the start page is terrible and just so not user friendly. First thing I do with Win 10 is change to using a program called Classic Shell which makes it look like all the other version of Window$, there are several of these apps that will do the same. It is kinda strange that Micro$oft came out with three different version in such a short period of time, some say it was to fix things but I don't buy that. Anyway name your poison in reference to these three like versions of Windoz and you basically got the same thing.*


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## Fat.Bear (Apr 2, 2008)

Stancestans said:


> I think Windows 10 Pro is best suited for those *professional* fields you wish to venture into. There are certain utilities that aren't available in Home edition, for example Group Policy Managemen, Domain join, Remote Desktop, Bitlocker, Hyper-V, etc that I guarantee you will encounter as an IT professional inside and outside class, especially OUTSIDE class, if you haven't already encountered them.


I agree 100%. The difference between home and pro editions is much greater than the difference between the various versions (7,8,10). You definitely want to know and use the Pro editions. I find that Remote Desktop alone is worth the extra hundred bucks it might cost. 



Geekomatic said:


> Allegheny,
> I like Win 7. I think this was MS's shining moment. I think Win 10 is a data miner in disguise.


Yes, definitely on both counts. But Win 10 is where the world sits right now. It's what the OP will mostly encounter in his classes, his tests, and his work. It's what will be loaded onto a PC when he buys it. There's just no going back.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

Fat.Bear said:


> Win 10 is where the world sits right now. It's what the OP will mostly encounter in his classes, his tests, and his work. It's what will be loaded onto a PC when he buys it. There's just no going back.


Yap, my thoughts exactly. He won't have no choice, but to keep up with the latest technologies in the market. I can imagine trying to offer support on something you're not conversant with yourself. Where do you even start?


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## pcride (Jan 29, 2016)

Stancestans said:


> Yap, my thoughts exactly. He won't have no choice, but to keep up with the latest technologies in the market. I can imagine trying to offer support on something you're not conversant with yourself. Where do you even start?



As I said in previous post, a lot of companies are still on Win7. MS is supporting it till 2020. 

A lot of the opinions on this thread is from an end user experience in the common usage of WINDOWS, i.e home user. This doesn’t speak to or support the corporate support world where the OS is used in a business environment. It’s a matter of your personal experience vs business needs and requirements.


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

According to what I've been reading, Windows 10 usage is on course to surpass Windows 7 late this summer, possibly August.

Microsoft's Extended Support for Windows 7 expires in 643 days, on January 14, 2020.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

pcride said:


> As I said in previous post, a lot of companies are still on Win7. MS is supporting it till 2020.
> 
> A lot of the opinions on this thread is from an end user experience in the common usage of WINDOWS, i.e home user. This doesn’t speak to or support the corporate support world where the OS is used in a business environment. It’s a matter of your personal experience vs business needs and requirements.


Corporate entities in my location tend to acquire new hardware every year, and most new computers are built for compatibility with Windows 10 or come with it preinstalled. They'd rather buy a new system than upgrade memory or storage! With Intel Core i9 processors on the way, I expect new hardware purchases as soon as they hit the shelves. I just came back from delivering two brand new laptops to one of my client organisations and they insisted that I install Windows 10 on them. 

I did my A+ in Windows Vista era, about a couple of years before Windows 7 was released, and MOST people stuck with XP for good reason. Despite my advising against it, most of my clients hastily jumped onto the free Windows 10 upgrade shortly after its release. Their servers have remained mostly unchanged, a good number still running Server 2008 and others running Server 2012, but their work-desk PCs have been on an almost annual overhaul schedule! Talk of wastage! 

Anywho, it was imperative that I keep up with the new Windows releases if I'm to continue supporting them, especially since their in-house IT staff often leave me questioning how they got the job and manage to keep it!


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## pcride (Jan 29, 2016)

Stancestans said:


> Corporate entities in my location tend to acquire new hardware every year, and most new computers are built for compatibility with Windows 10 or come with it preinstalled. They'd rather buy a new system than upgrade memory or storage! With Intel Core i9 processors on the way, I expect new hardware purchases as soon as they hit the shelves. I just came back from delivering two brand new laptops to one of my client organisations and they insisted that I install Windows 10 on them.
> 
> I did my A+ in Windows Vista era, about a couple of years before Windows 7 was released, and MOST people stuck with XP for good reason. Despite my advising against it, most of my clients hastily jumped onto the free Windows 10 upgrade shortly after its release. Their servers have remained mostly unchanged, a good number still running Server 2008 and others running Server 2012, but their work-desk PCs have been on an almost annual overhaul schedule! Talk of wastage!
> 
> Anywho, it was imperative that I keep up with the new Windows releases if I'm to continue supporting them, especially since their in-house IT staff often leave me questioning how they got the job and manage to keep it!


For sure! I encourage you to renew your A+ with the current one as it goes into some Win 10 configs and has new content for mobile and tablet, as well as wireless technology. 

I’m use to supporting companies 30k and 50k or more users, so it’s hard for large enterprise companies to shell out money for migrating every PC to a new license let alone all the testing and compatibility testing that needs to take place on the server side of the house. A small mid size business with 1000 or less users, usually not a super big deal. But in the end Win7 will be phased out just like XP. I still have an Win7 box running on older hardware for some games that just won’t run on Win 10 because of the new kernel.


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## iamsapphire (Dec 9, 2011)

ASUS is perfect. ASUS Desktop. Starting out, get an i5-8thGen Core, you can always upgrade later to i7 or i9's computers (Cost Wise)
Get a 512gb or 1tb SSD Drive (for booting and main software storage) and a nice 1tb or 2tb extra drive for data, programs, games, software storage.

Only get a Laptop if you are truly going to be mobile... Laptop's were not designed to be "on-all-day" (no matter what egos try to tell you) like Desktop computers are (If so, they would make 24 hour batteries, rather than only 2-3 hour ones)

An ASUS Laptop is PERFECT as well... get a touch-screen it's the best way to go.

Use Windows 10, don't play around with old, out-dated stuff, keep up-to-date.

For your "tech" training, either get a couple of old desktop computers with Win 7, 8 or 8.1 on them or setup a Dual, Triple or Quad Boot computer with each OS on it, or create a Virtual Machine System and run any OS you want.

I have about 6 computers in my office, all running on Ubiquiti Network environments, fully programmable, as is Cisco (which in my opinion Cisco is as useless as Unions are today)

By having these extra computers laying around, I'm able to test, create, reproduce and design networks, systems and designs as I see fit.

I have a MAC 27", as well as a ASUS Computer running Debian Linux, so I can play and interact in any arena.

When it came time to get me a Tablet, I got the ASUS VivoTab with Windows 10 on it, I find that when I walk into any Computer System environment, I can connect to any system setup. If I used an Apple iPad or Tablet, or a Unix/Chromebook design, I find I can't connect to the various environments, ie, Apple, Linux or Windows without "playing" with the connectivity and interaction requirements, like I can with a Windows 10 Tablet or Laptop. It's just easier.

Hope that helps...

-sapphire


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## Fat.Bear (Apr 2, 2008)

iamsapphire said:


> If I used an Apple iPad or Tablet, or a Unix/Chromebook design, I find I can't connect to the various environments, ie, Apple, Linux or Windows without "playing" with the connectivity and interaction requirements, like I can with a Windows 10 Tablet or Laptop. It's just easier.


I recently went the opposite direction of the OP. After most of a lifetime of Unix, Windows, and Android usage, I bought an iPad Pro to see what the Apple world looked like. I got the keyboard, too, and found that Microsoft has an Apple version of Remote Desktop. Using a VPN, I can login to my networks from anywhere in the world and do my work (on Windows computers) just like I could with a laptop. It's a pretty small screen, but I'm nearsighted and it beats lugging around the heavier laptop. And most of the time it's just a nice tablet computer. (TC?)


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

pcride said:


> As I said in previous post, a lot of companies are still on Win7. MS is supporting it till 2020.
> 
> A lot of the opinions on this thread is from an end user experience in the common usage of WINDOWS, i.e home user. This doesn’t speak to or support the corporate support world where the OS is used in a business environment. It’s a matter of your personal experience vs business needs and requirements.


I work for a bank that did $5 Billion last year. 

The whole company runs Windows 7.


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

pcride said:


> Let’s slow down here and step back to the OP’s question. The OP said they want to get into networking and security A+\Net+. Those practices are not Mac or “PC” specific.


That was one big question on the A+...

First off, it sounds like the modern A+ is much less about hardware and more about OS (e.g. registry).

So it sounds like a laptop is sufficient. (I used to build my own PCs, so I know the parts good enough I'd think.)

I guess if there are lots of Microsoft OS/DOS/registry questions I would still need Windows, but can anyone address that? (Anyone get their A+ in the last few years?)

As far as the Network+ goes, I wouldn't think the OS much matters...




pcride said:


> Subnetting a network, IPV4/6, routing concepts don’t care if your on either platform. I just got my Net and Sec + and honestly none of the content is focused on “PC” /Windows where you need to start on an OS.


I would tend to agree.




pcride said:


> Also most corporate companies are still running Win7 and only recently migrating to Win 10. IMHO Win10 is much different and garbage in some ways compared to Win7. I’d learn and master Win7 Ultimate then Win10 is just a skin over Win 7 with annoying features that you or any corporate company will not use. An admin will just be turning all those features off in GP.


I can see the pros and cons of learning Windows 7 vs 10.




pcride said:


> Security + exam is hard and takes ALOT of studying. Start learning all forms of encryption ,
> The pros and cons of each and how to apply them. AES, 802.1x, WPA, WAP, ,DES, 3DES, Dilfihelman, RSA, Blowfish, TwoFish, HashMD5, VPN, TLS, SSL, SSH, IPSec and on and on. You’ll need to know all types of attacks, virus, worm, Trojan, man in the middle, cross site scripting, sql injection, and tons more, you need to know a ton about Network infrastructure, firewalls IPS, Routers etc...


Security is my hobby, so I think all of that will come more naturally to me.




pcride said:


> Net + be prepared to master subnetting, network cabeling, Fiber, network speeds, wireless speeds and switches, routing etc , the two hardest exams.


The Network+ is the one I am worried about...

By the way, what would I need to get "real" networking experience?

I'm working out of state, so I have to stay lean with what I buy/use since its in a hotel!

If I buy a wireless router and hook up a couple of my Macs, my ChromeBook and maybe buy a used laptop with Windows 7, would that give me enough to create a network that I can use to study for the Network+?

Or is it all theory and so I just need to read to pass?


I checked out Professor Messers website and it looks like he has lots of good resources to study for and pass the Network+.


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

thecomputerwiz said:


> Why hasn't anyone mentioned *VMWare Fusion* for the MAC?  Runs ANY OS, and I use it with no problems on OSX, running Windows 7 and above guest OS's... Last time I purchased it a few years ago, it was about $50 or so, a LOT cheaper than a whole new PC hehe... and you can buy OEM copies of Windows online for a decent price too keeping it legal...
> 
> Why buy hardware?


 @pcride, is that a viable option for the A+?


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

thecomputerwiz said:


> Why hasn't anyone mentioned *VMWare Fusion* for the MAC?  Runs ANY OS, and I use it with no problems on OSX, running Windows 7 and above guest OS's... Last time I purchased it a few years ago, it was about $50 or so, a LOT cheaper than a whole new PC hehe... and you can buy OEM copies of Windows online for a decent price too keeping it legal...
> 
> Why buy hardware?


 @pcride, is that a viable option for the A+?


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

Stancestans said:


> I think Windows 10 Pro is best suited for those *professional* fields you wish to venture into. There are certain utilities that aren't available in Home edition, for example Group Policy Managemen, Domain join, Remote Desktop, Bitlocker, Hyper-V, etc that I guarantee you will encounter as an IT professional inside and outside class, especially OUTSIDE class, if you haven't already encountered them.


So how much would Windows 10 Professional cost me?

And I suppose I'd need new hardware to support that, right?

What would I need for hardware? Processor? RAM? Storage?

Could I run Windows 10 Professional on my MacBook using VMware?

Or would I not get access to the same things as on PC hardware? (e.g. UEFI)


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

iamsapphire said:


> ASUS is perfect. ASUS Desktop. Starting out, get an i5-8thGen Core, you can always upgrade later to i7 or i9's computers (Cost Wise)
> Get a 512gb or 1tb SSD Drive (for booting and main software storage) and a nice 1tb or 2tb extra drive for data, programs, games, software storage.
> 
> Only get a Laptop if you are truly going to be mobile... Laptop's were not designed to be "on-all-day" (no matter what egos try to tell you) like Desktop computers are (If so, they would make 24 hour batteries, rather than only 2-3 hour ones)


That's the PC person in you speaking!

I leave my MacBook on for weeks before rebooting and never have any issues... :whistling:




iamsapphire said:


> An ASUS Laptop is PERFECT as well... get a touch-screen it's the best way to go.
> 
> Use Windows 10, don't play around with old, out-dated stuff, keep up-to-date.


So Windows 10 is touch-screen only?




iamsapphire said:


> For your "tech" training, either get a couple of old desktop computers with Win 7, 8 or 8.1 on them or setup a Dual, Triple or Quad Boot computer with each OS on it, or create a Virtual Machine System and run any OS you want.
> 
> I have about 6 computers in my office, all running on Ubiquiti Network environments, fully programmable, as is Cisco (which in my opinion Cisco is as useless as Unions are today)
> 
> By having these extra computers laying around, I'm able to test, create, reproduce and design networks, systems and designs as I see fit.


As mentioned, I am away from home... I have 3 Mac laptops with me and a ChromeBook, and was thinking of picking up a Windows laptop and a wireless router?




iamsapphire said:


> Hope that helps...
> 
> -sapphire


Sure!


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## iamsapphire (Dec 9, 2011)

Just get Windows 10.

_Norton Antivirus News Excerpt: WannaCry ransomware hit Windows 7 worse than Windows XP, analysis note, Most of the infected machines were running Windows 7, various Fortune 100 security firms have confirmed.

Windows 10 computers were not affected.

_While you can find 100's of stories that are bad for Windows 10 too.. you can for any OS.This is 2018, Windows 7 came out in July 2009... move on.


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## pcride (Jan 29, 2016)

Allegheny said:


> @pcride, is that a viable option for the A+?




Yea for sure , just get the book from Amazon and start reading really. 

David L. Prowse
CompTIA A+ 220-901 and 220-902 Exam Cram


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## Geekomatic (Jul 19, 2010)

Fat.Bear said:


> I agree 100%. The difference between home and pro editions is much greater than the difference between the various versions (7,8,10). You definitely want to know and use the Pro editions. I find that Remote Desktop alone is worth the extra hundred bucks it might cost.
> 
> 
> Yes, definitely on both counts. But Win 10 is where the world sits right now. It's what the OP will mostly encounter in his classes, his tests, and his work. It's what will be loaded onto a PC when he buys it. There's just no going back.


There is an alternative, & that is Linux Mint Mate.

99% of the home users wouldn't ever see a difference. I know. I swap them there, every chance I get. They're happier because they don't get Avast or AVG or Norton pop-ups....They just use their machine.

I acknowledge gaming pushes things- but it doesn't "help" the rest.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

Allegheny said:


> So how much would Windows 10 Professional cost me?


Google is your friend.



> And I suppose I'd need new hardware to support that, right?


You're looking to buy a brand new laptop, right?



> What would I need for hardware? Processor? RAM? Storage?


Check back on previous replies by myself and others. Recommendations were given.



> Could I run Windows 10 Professional on my MacBook using VMware?


Yap.



> Or would I not get access to the same things as on PC hardware? (e.g. UEFI)


Of course there are experience differences when working with virtual machines (emulated hardware) vs tangible hardware, regardless of operating system in use. UEFI emulation is available in virtual environments as well.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

Allegheny said:


> I leave my MacBook on for weeks before rebooting and never have any issues... :whistling:


So do I; on my HP notebook PC, like many other folks here.



> So Windows 10 is touch-screen only?


Nope, and you don't need touchscreen. It comes down to your taste really.


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## pcride (Jan 29, 2016)

If your goal is to get certified, i’d Get the A+ and Net + books, start reading them first and worry about the pc later. Watch all of professor miser videos on YouTube. Then you’ll know what do start practicing on a PC.


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## Stancestans (Apr 26, 2009)

pcride said:


> If your goal is to get certified, i’d Get the A+ and Net + books, start reading them first and worry about the pc later. Watch all of professor miser videos on YouTube. Then you’ll know what do start practicing on a PC.


Yap, I second that. The equipment he already has should get him going, and if along the way he finds himself in need of extras, he can acquire them then.


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## Fat.Bear (Apr 2, 2008)

Allegheny said:


> So how much would Windows 10 Professional cost me?


A quick glance at one Dell laptop shows that the Pro option is $60 more. I promise you will not regret it. 



> And I suppose I'd need new hardware to support that, right?


Same hardware will run Home or Pro editions. And most older (though not ancient) off the shelf PCs will run Win 10. I've upgraded quite a few older Win 7 Pro PCs to Win 10 Pro without noticeable degradation in performance of routine tasks. Most people do not sit at their desks running benchmarks and I've never supported a gamer.



> What would I need for hardware? Processor? RAM? Storage?


Everyone has their own way of looking at this. Personally, I'd recommend a mid range processor for a general purpose machine. The low end will disappoint and will have a shorter life before it becomes unusably slow. And I'd prefer that gamers pay for the development costs of the latest, fastest ones. Typically, a processor will be very expensive when it first comes out. After a few months the price will begin to drop. After Intel releases the next new leap, the price for that now older CPU will drop precipitously. That's the one you want to buy. A high performance model of the next-to-latest generation.

I don't think I've ever regretted buying lots of RAM for my own machines, though I look at it carefully in specifying a business machine. (I've worked with retail Point of Sale systems and networks for quite a few years and POS systems don't need lots of RAM.) Similar to CPUs, to max out the RAM usually means buying the latest really expensive modules, but putting more than the minimum is almost always a good idea for general use. Of course if you are specifying a machine for a known, specific application you should be able to figure out the right amount of RAM (and how fast and so on) that you need, but it sounds like you are just buying a general purpose PC right now. 

Don't forget the "hard" drive. A few years ago a creaking old Dell Optiplex was working very hard (a Win 7 Pro system serving the overhead music for the store, UPS database, running a POS terminal, and always having browser, email, and spreadsheets open) and had slowed to the point of being unusable. Maxing out RAM helped a little, but I was still constantly harrassed by complaints about the slow system. Rather than pay almost $1000 for a new one, I put a $250 SSD into the old one. That was early 2015 and that system is still working just as hard and not a complaint since then. Upgrading it to Win 10 Pro did not degrade performance, either. Since then I have not purchased or specified a system with a mechanical hard drive. In my early days, we booted computers with switch panels and paper tape readers. I wouldn't boot from paper tape now and I see no point in booting from spinning platters, either. :smile:

I use Intel SSD drives. They were the most reliable back in 2015 and I've had no reason to re-evaluate them. Right now in 2018 I would expect SSDs from any manufacturer to be faster and more reliable than platter drives.


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

Stancestans said:


> Yap, I second that. The equipment he already has should get him going, and if along the way he finds himself in need of extras, he can acquire them then.


I was leaning towards that...

Buy the Professor Messer study guides, watch the free videos, research online, and study like hell!

I would hope that would get me the A+, although for the Network+ I'm thinking I need to set up a small home network...


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## iamsapphire (Dec 9, 2011)

Here's the cool thing about creating a "Network" at home.
1. Your Internet Modem (also known as a Router, by it's real name)
2. Your Computer NOW, Plugged into it.

TADA... NETWORK DONE. Simple is as Simple Does.

Yep, your computer hooked to the Internet "Modem" is a "network" in it's simplest form.

Wanna Add more computers to the network, if your Internet Modem (router) has 4 network cable plugs (these plugs are called Ports) on it... and YOUR computer is hooked to say, Plug 1, then Plug another network cable into Plug 2, plug the other end of that cable into another computer... turn the other computer on.. and TADA, 2 Computers on the network.

Yep, that simple.

Ok, Let's say your Internet Modem (router) only has ONE network plug on it... then trot over to Staples, buy a TP-Link 5 port Gigabit Switch (model TL-SG1005D) FOR $20.00. (A Switch is like a Cable Splitter, plug in one cable from the "Modem" and you get 4 more computer NETWORK connections from the other 4 ports)

Take the cable from the back of YOUR computer and plug into Plug 1 (called ports) on the TP-Link, then plug a cable from Port 2 on the TP-Link down to your computer.

Then if you have another couple of computers to hook up on to your "NETWORK", then hook a cable to Port 3 on the TP-Link then over to computer 2, and if you have a 3rd computer, plug a network cable into Port 4 and the other end, into Computer 3.

Turn everything on...

Tada... you are NETWORKED. They all get on the internet and you can then share files between the computers, music medias, printers, etc..etc..etc... all between these computers since they are all ON a Network. 

Yep it's that simple to make a network.

No coding.
No configuration required.
No "programming" any network routers, boxes, switches, thingies..

Now... you are ready to learn Networking.

Now... go to Youtube and become pro... if you dedicate a couple of weeks, you can probably run your own networking business...

believe me... I've known a lot of "egotistical" techs, that pretend their "degrees" are the only thing that matter... 

Knowledge is power.

Learn the way Abraham Lincoln did.. the school of "BOOKS", not necessarily the "school"

I Love this Stuff - :whistling:

-sapphire


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

iamsapphire said:


> Yep it's that simple to make a network.
> 
> -sapphire


Okay, so my situation is somewhat unique...

I am away from home working on a project out of state and staying in a hotel. 

Won't be going home all year.

I currently have a MacBook Pro and two Retinas, plus a Chromebook and a crappy PC Notebook.

If I went out and bought a 4-port wireless router, could I create a "legitimate" wireless (or wired) network in my hotel room *but without an Internet connection?*

Because I am staying temporarily in a hotel, I can't get a "real" Internet connection like DSL or cable.

There is free Wi-Fi, but if my goal is to learn networking so I can pass the Network+ exam, couldn't I just create a local wired/wireless network that is not connected to the Internet?


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## Geekomatic (Jul 19, 2010)

Allegheny said:


> Okay, so my situation is somewhat unique...
> 
> I am away from home working on a project out of state and staying in a hotel.
> 
> ...


You can create the local network w/o having 'net access, yes.

If you install Virtualbox (free), you can also run a free image of Win 7/8.1/10 in a VM. Microsoft provides them here. You will obviously need internet to download the images-- maybe go to the library & hook into their free wifi?

Good luck!


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## SpywareDr (Jun 15, 2013)

To setup a network without internet access, get yourself a router exactly as if you were going to connect your network to the internet. And then you simply don't. The router provides the basics for connecting your network together. It handles things like making sure that each machine has an IP address, assigns names to the various machines, or at least allowing machines to communicate using names, etc., etc.

That's it. Basic wired network.


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## Fat.Bear (Apr 2, 2008)

Allegheny said:


> If I went out and bought a 4-port wireless router, could I create a "legitimate" wireless (or wired) network in my hotel room *but without an Internet connection?*
> 
> Because I am staying temporarily in a hotel, I can't get a "real" Internet connection like DSL or cable.
> 
> There is free Wi-Fi, but if my goal is to learn networking so I can pass the Network+ exam, couldn't I just create a local wired/wireless network that is not connected to the Internet?


Yes, you can get a basic router, or even a basic switch and build an offline network. I once built a large international private network in a lab and then shipped the pieces all over the world after configuring them all correctly. Windows doesn't like being without an Internet connection, though. You can force it, but it's another thing to fuss with if you're just learning the OS. 

You can "have it all" if you want. Most wireless routers can be configured as a "wireless access point". And most wireless gateway routers have four port switches on the LAN side. So you can setup your wireless router to connect to the Internet through the hotel's WiFi and it will provide your LAN. The caveat is that some hotels seem to require you to click a welcome screen before you can use their WiFi - even after you've connected with the password. This is usually required the first time you open a browser on one of your computers, but I have seen where this didn't work and I suspect their network may have been demanding something from the router itself.

I have done a lot of traveling in the last 15 years while supporting a retail network with three locations. I usually took my own ZyXel ZyWall router with me so I could easily establish a LAN in the room with a LAN to LAN VPN back to the store or remote offices (sometimes just me and sometimes two of us using it.) The ZyWall routers are amazingly configurable and I've never failed to get connected when I needed to, though sometimes it can be fussy. And it's hard to complain about having your own hardware firewall when using hotel networks. You can even get a USB Cell Data Stick and configure that to be your "WAN" (Wide Area Network - Internet) connection while still in gateway mode. Very cool. 

If you're in your hotel room right now, you might also check behind the desk or TV for an Ethernet port or cable. I've stayed in lots of hotels over the last 30 years and many of them were hard-wired before WiFi became dominant. I still can often find a working hard wired connection and I always look for one first. (Edit: I said "often", but as wireless gets better and better I think more of these old hardwired ones are being disconnected.)


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## iamsapphire (Dec 9, 2011)

Allegheny said:


> Okay, so my situation is somewhat unique...
> 
> I am away from home working on a project out of state and staying in a hotel.
> 
> ...



If you want a simple "network", that you can use to "communicate" with each of the computers, then you just need a "router", maybe a 4 port or more, since you say you have 4 computers, you will need a 4 port router to connect them together. 



Get the TP-Link N450 Wireless Wi-Fi 4 port gigabit router. 

$30.00 direct from TP-Link or find at WalMart - Amazon, etc
https://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/TL-WR940N.html




~ Plug in the N450 to Power.
~ Plug in a network cable to One of the Computers into port 1 of the 4 ports
~ Turn on the Computer (port-1)
~ Follow the instructions for the N450 to "setup"


https://static.tp-link.com/res/down/doc/TL-WR1043ND(US)_V_3_QIG.pdf


ignore the part about connecting to "Internet" and you will have a working "No-Internet" network.


AND you have "wireless" access to your Network as well, you can set that up on the N450 too. 



When you are ready to plug in the "Internet", look at the instructions again, and plug the "Internet" cable into the WAN port on back. Normally this is a YELLOW colored port.


"If you think it is hard... then it will be"
"If you think it is easy... it is"



-sapphire


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## Allegheny (Sep 24, 2017)

Fat.Bear said:


> Yes, you can get a basic router, or even a basic switch and build an offline network. I once built a large international private network in a lab and then shipped the pieces all over the world after configuring them all correctly. Windows doesn't like being without an Internet connection, though. You can force it, but it's another thing to fuss with if you're just learning the OS.


Good to know!




Fat.Bear said:


> You can "have it all" if you want. Most wireless routers can be configured as a "wireless access point". And most wireless gateway routers have four port switches on the LAN side. So you can setup your wireless router to connect to the Internet through the hotel's WiFi and it will provide your LAN. The caveat is that some hotels seem to require you to click a welcome screen before you can use their WiFi - even after you've connected with the password. This is usually required the first time you open a browser on one of your computers, but I have seen where this didn't work and I suspect their network may have been demanding something from the router itself.


Funny you should mention this, because I was about to start another thread on it!

Found out yesterday that my hotel changed service providers, and the new one only allows 3 connections per room - I have 6 laptops with me!!

I was wondering if I could "hack" things and hook up a wireless router (1 device) and then use that to "split" the Wi-Fi connection so I could hook up to 6 devices if need be.

Sounds like you are saying yes?

I know that if I call tech support, they can put in an IP and MAC address and gove me constant access for like a month so I don't have to log in every 24 hours.

So if I called them and just gave them the IP and MAC address for a wireless router, would that work?

And could I get that by them?




Fat.Bear said:


> I have done a lot of traveling in the last 15 years while supporting a retail network with three locations. I usually took my own ZyXel ZyWall router with me so I could easily establish a LAN in the room with a LAN to LAN VPN back to the store or remote offices (sometimes just me and sometimes two of us using it.) The ZyWall routers are amazingly configurable and I've never failed to get connected when I needed to, though sometimes it can be fussy. And it's hard to complain about having your own hardware firewall when using hotel networks. You can even get a USB Cell Data Stick and configure that to be your "WAN" (Wide Area Network - Internet) connection while still in gateway mode. Very cool.


How does a ZyXel router compare to something Linksys?




Fat.Bear said:


> If you're in your hotel room right now, you might also check behind the desk or TV for an Ethernet port or cable. I've stayed in lots of hotels over the last 30 years and many of them were hard-wired before WiFi became dominant. I still can often find a working hard wired connection and I always look for one first. (Edit: I said "often", but as wireless gets better and better I think more of these old hardwired ones are being disconnected.)


Nice tip!


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## Fat.Bear (Apr 2, 2008)

Allegheny said:


> Found out yesterday that my hotel changed service providers, and the new one only allows 3 connections per room - I have 6 laptops with me!!
> 
> I was wondering if I could "hack" things and hook up a wireless router (1 device) and then use that to "split" the Wi-Fi connection so I could hook up to 6 devices if need be.


They would need to define a "connection". One wireless connection from your LAN might be the one connection, or they may count the computers on the LAN - which would be seven including the router. You'd have to ask them. Most hotel wireless networks are slow because of distance and walls between you and their repeaters. And at certain times of the day they are pretty heavily used. Of course you'll probably only be active on one computer at a time, but you can see why they'd want to try and put some reasonable limits on usage. 

If they are able to block your six computers, you could setup a VPN from your LAN to another server somewhere (your home, your ISP, some other VPN provider). That would put all of your Internet traffic through the tunnel and out of sight of the hotel. This seems like a good idea on a hotel network, anyway, though I've never done it. (We've had two computers and two smart phones in the room with no problem, but every hotel might be different.)



> Sounds like you are saying yes?


Well, I'm saying "probably".



> I know that if I call tech support, they can put in an IP and MAC address and gove me constant access for like a month so I don't have to log in every 24 hours.
> 
> So if I called them and just gave them the IP and MAC address for a wireless router, would that work?


Seems like it would.



> How does a ZyXel router compare to something Linksys?


I used to carry around Linksys routers. Boy did I ever celebrate when I got the ZyXel setup! 

The ZyWall routers are business class routers. They are extremely capable, can be configured to do almost anything except for your laundry, and are very reliable. I've been using then for at least ten years, maybe more, and have never had a failure. The caveat is that setting them up takes planning and careful reading of the manual. You will learn a lot about networking just setting it up. I have found their tech support people very helpful when setting up something really tricky that isn't in the manual.

ZyXel makes lots of other network equipment, some of it for home use. I know nothing about those products.

Linksys was never reliable in my networks and could only be configured for the most basic functionality. This was over 10 years ago so things may be different. But they still look the same, so I wouldn't hold my breath. Cisco bought them and offers some of their fancier models as "small business" routers. Cisco knows nothing about small business. I wouldn't buy one, but lots of people do.


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## Nasekr (Apr 25, 2018)

Allegheny said:


> I have an ASUS Notepad that I think upgraded to Windows10, but it is like using a child's toy.
> 
> Am considering breaking down and buying a PC, but first want to understand which version of Windows would be best to learn - knowing that "newst" is not always "bestest"!! :grin:
> 
> I welcome thoughts and suggestions from my Windows neighbors!


As an ASUS laptop user , I suggest you install Windows 7 if you're more familiar with Windows 7, I've just upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows and I regret it since the Windows upgrade caused me a lot of troubles , in other words, if you are want to upgrade to Windows , you can Google it to get more advices to avoid errors , maybe you can get some tips to solve problem ,


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## Nasekr (Apr 25, 2018)

Nasekr said:


> As an ASUS laptop user , I suggest you install Windows 7 if you're more familiar with Windows 7, I've just upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows and I regret it since the Windows upgrade caused me a lot of troubles , in other words, if you are want to upgrade to Windows , you can Google it to get more advice to avoid errors , maybe you can get some tips to solve problem ,


I'm not promoting Windows 7,Most of my friends are also using Windows 10, which depends on personal life and work.


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