# Building computers for profit



## Phædrus241

Yeah yeah, I know, every computer geeks "dream job" that they think about doing but never get around to. But here in NOLA there is a dearth of computer services. There are two or four shops (discounting Best Buy) that offer competent computer services. There are listings on Google for a lot more, but most of them don't seem to exist when you go there in person. I don't really want to compete with them. If someone has downloaded fifty viruses over Limewire and wants someone else to fix it for them, they can go to someone else. But most of these places either won't build a computer for you, or do a ****ty job. Most of them charge you $150+ for labor costs.

What I want to do is just print out a bunch of ads and hang them up in/around grocery stores, the college, whatever, and maybe put an add on Craigslist. "Need a computer? We can help! blah blah blah".

Business model would be simple. Customer calls/emails, I discuss what they want and need, what their budget is, blah blah, come up with a parts list. Find the parts for the cheapest possible on newegg/tigerdirect/amazon, whatever. Give them a quote for parts+OS+shipping+$75. They pay, I order parts, build, deliver to their house or wherever they want me to. Maybe charge an extra $25 to do a moderate overclock for them (assuming hardware is capable). I'll install Windows, set up basic security stuff (SpyBot, MalwareBytes, Avast), and maybe leave a text file on their desktop telling them to run MalwareBytes every month and dust out the computer every three months. I'll offer a limited one year warranty, meaning I'll remove any viruses that I can, and refer them to an expert if it's beyond me, and I'll replace any damaged hardware via manufacturer's RMA, assuming whatever happened doesn't void the hardware's warranty.

This isn't going to be a sustained business, and I don't expect more than a handful of customers (0-10 maybe). But it will let me make money doing something I like to do (tinker with computers) and give me something I can put on a resume. 

Is this feasible? Or is it stupid?


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## Wrench97

Feasible, I would not include the virus removal as part of the warranty however. 
Once you get the lay of the land so to speak you can order and stock some components when they are on sale or in combination to save shipping charges and add to the bottom line.


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## Phædrus241

Also got some other feedback on things like that.


I charge $75 to build the system, but it might cost an extra $15 to install the OS and updates and AV. If I deem a build especially difficult (like if someone asks for watercooling) I raise my build charge accordingly, though the majority of systems would remain $75. For an extra $25+ I'd integrate it with their home network and set up any printers and such (since that would require a home visit maybe charge a fee+hourly labor rate). I would offer the free warranty for only two-three months, and after that charge an hourly rate to avoid frivolous claims on warranty ("Waaaah, Freecell won't work!"). I'd also maybe use nail varnish and "warranty void if removed" stickers.

Do all those suggestions make sense?


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## Wrench97

Yes the virus removal is a added plus, and varies by customer some will never need it others twice a week, Mark the components with a paint marker just a dab will do like little pips, that will ensure the original components are installed any system I've had a problem with that was caused be user intervention was easy to tell a user was inside of I tie wrap the wires with color coded tie wraps if they are removing any components they have to cut them off and either don't put them back or use the wrong color white being the most popular. Most clients buying a custom PC what the ability to play inside and look inside to see what they bought.


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## Phædrus241

That's true, plus I'll want them to dust it out occasionally as well.

If a user exchanges one component do you void everything, or just things that could be affected by that? Obviously if someone puts a 5870 in a system I built with a 350W PSU and it dies I'll charge them to fix that, but would you refuse to fix a problem with say the motherboard if they swapped out the hard drive?


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## Wrench97

No only if I feel and can prove that they were the cause, for example if I had to RMA the motherboard and the RMA was refused because of a short circuit or damaged in some way then it's on the customer, I've only had it happen once where the customer had no video and a service call found a broken PCIe slot, I explained that something had have happened as that was not a fault of the board or the installation because it would not have worked for the 6 months prior nor would the broken piece been missing from inside the case, but that I would attempt the RMA if it was refused then the costs would be on them, later that night the customer called to say he found out his son (14) had attempted to install a upgraded video card his buddy sold him for $10, I had to ask at that point what card it was that was better then the 8600GTS that was in the PC ...Wait for it...............An ATI 9800Pro AGP card because AGP is better then PCIe don't you know........................I charged him a reduced rate and he was happy the son not so much.................


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## Win2KPro

here are a number of things you need to look into before embarking on this venture.

#1-Is a business license going to be required where you are going to perform your work? Even if you are working out of your home in many areas a Home Occupational License is required.

#2-Sales taxes. In many States labor is not taxable, however if you use one component that you are selling, then the entire bill (including labor) becomes taxable. This requires a lot of record keeping and sometimes filing a monthly sales tax report. Check you State and local requirements.

Also, don't forget about Federal Taxes. If you are self employed and make a profit at the end of the year (I would have to look up the exact threshold, but it is fairly low) then you would need to file a Form 1040 Schedule C and Form 1040 SE with your regular tax forms.

If your profits are higher than expected you may have to file quarterly estimated payments or face a penalty when you file you income tax reports the folowing year. 

#3-Insurance. Insurance is an extremely important item to consider. A for instance. You install a new power supply in a customers machine. The power supply is defective, catches fire and damages the customer's home. Do you have liability here? 2nd scenario. A customer brings in his or her tower for some minor repair and trips and falls while at your shop and injures themselves. Do you have liability here?

Unfortunately today we live in a "sue happy" society. If someone gets a hang nail while at your location, you may be getting a call from their attorney.

There are many other areas you need to consider before establishing a business dealing with the public. The 3 above are just a few of the items you need to take under consideration.


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## Phædrus241

How does this sound for the basic build cost estimate and sketch of warranty terms?


Estimate:
Cost of components - ...
Basic build fee: $75


Options:
OS install and update: $15*
Antivirus install and setup: $15
Overclock and optimize: $45**
Watercooling: $150***




* User must purchase valid copy of Windows or other OS. May be included in components list. Will install any compatible Windows or Linux operating system.
** Additional or more expensive hardware may be required for safe overclocking. Includes CPU overclock and (if applicable or necessary) northbridge and/or RAM overclock. All overclocks are tested stable. Increased performance not guaranteed. Components will be overclocked only as high as I feel prudent. GPU overclocking costs additional $20.
*** Requires purchase of watercooling components. User is responsible for maintenance and upkeep of watercooling loop and is liable for damage caused by improper or lax maintenance or handling. Does not apply to closed-loop WC solutions. 

A discretionary build fee up to $100 may be applied to builds requiring above and beyond the normal amount of work. This is only applied in rare instances; I will not levy this fee unless I feel that it is extremely justified.



Warranty:
My computers are covered under a limited three month warranty. I will fix any problem caused by a faulty component or installation error on my behalf, or any problem with the operating system I installed*. If I deem that a problem is caused by user error (such as by evidence of tampering) the user will be charged the cost of any replacement parts, plus an hourly rate of $10 to fix the problem. 

Outside of the three month warranty period I will offer my repair services at a rate of $10 per hour, plus cost of any replacement parts or other services I may require.

* 1.) If an operating system reinstall is required to fix a problem I will do my best to recover any personal data; but depending on the nature of the issue this may not be possible. 2.) I cannot provide data recovery in the case of damaged or crashed hard drives, but I can refer the user to reputable recovery experts.


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## Phædrus241

Win2KPro said:


> here are a number of things you need to look into before embarking on this venture.
> 
> #1-Is a business license going to be required where you are going to perform your work? Even if you are working out of your home in many areas a Home Occupational License is required.
> 
> #2-Sales taxes. In many States labor is not taxable, however if you use one component that you are selling, then the entire bill (including labor) becomes taxable. This requires a lot of record keeping and sometimes filing a monthly sales tax report. Check you State and local requirements.
> 
> Also, don't forget about Federal Taxes. If you are self employed and make a profit at the end of the year (I would have to look up the exact threshold, but it is fairly low) then you would need to file a Form 1040 Schedule C and Form 1040 SE with your regular tax forms.
> 
> If your profits are higher than expected you may have to file quarterly estimated payments or face a penalty when you file you income tax reports the folowing year.
> 
> #3-Insurance. Insurance is an extremely important item to consider. A for instance. You install a new power supply in a customers machine. The power supply is defective, catches fire and damages the customer's home. Do you have liability here? 2nd scenario. A customer brings in his or her tower for some minor repair and trips and falls while at your shop and injures themselves. Do you have liability here?
> 
> Unfortunately today we live in a "sue happy" society. If someone gets a hang nail while at your location, you may be getting a call from their attorney.
> 
> There are many other areas you need to consider before establishing a business dealing with the public. The 3 above are just a few of the items you need to take under consideration.



Ick. Guess I'll have to look into that as well.


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## Wrench97

At $10 an hour you'll be too busy to do any builds


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## Phædrus241

Hehe, true, probably need to up that some then.


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## Win2KPro

I scanned this forum a little and saw quite a few threads that are asking basically the same question you are asking. You might pick up some ideas by reading the other threads.

I really don't think you can make it with the prices you have indicated. If you can, so be it.

When I was over at TSG at one time I compiled a list of the tools and supplies I used most often. Somewhere, I misplaced that list, but below is a partial list I threw together from memory. As you will see you will need a fair amount of investment to be able to perform the jobs you may acquire. 

*TOOLS*

Power Supply Tester(s)
Workbench power supply
Workbench UPS
Workbench monitor
Workbench keyboard and mouse (both USB and PS2)
Mechanics stethescope (with slip on plastic end)
Good quality digital multimeter with various tips
Screwdriver assortment
Various pliers - Needle nose, Regular, Long nose vice grips, etc.
Heat gun
Miniature butane torch
Soldering gun
Hard drive adapters

*SUPPLIES*

60, 80, 92 and 120mm chassis fans
Bury frame fans (If repairing/replacing Graphics card fans) 45mm x 10mm, 50mm x 10mm, 60mm x 10mm
Lots of screws (various threads and lengths)
Power adapters SATA to 4 pin molex and 4 pin molex to SATA
Fan adapters
Jumper caps (2mm and 2.54mm)
Molex kk connector shells (mostly 1x2 and 2x5)
Thermal compound
Denatured alcohol or high purity isopropyl alcohol
Small paint brushes for loosening dust from components
Compressed air
Heat shrink (various sizes)
Solder
Spare processor cooler fans
Spare processor coolers (complete fan and heatsink)
Spare add-in cards for testing (Graphics, Ethernet, Audio, Modem, etc)
Zip Tie Assortment
Spare power supply's (a couple of different sizes) (If you are in an area where you can purchase locally then you wouldn't need to stock spare power supply's or spare fans)


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## Phædrus241

Well, the thing is I'm not going into this as a full time repair business. I basically have free time, computer building experience, and want money. I'm not going to be repairing computers so much as simply building them and offering basic repair services afterward to my customers.


I've built around five computers by this point, and the toolset that's got me through it is:
2 phillips head screwdrivers
1 flat head screwdriver
needle nosed pliers
Wire stripper
Compressed air
Thermal paste
isopropyl alcohol, coffee filters, q-tips
Workbench monitor, keyboard, etc.
Spare fans, heatsinks, power supplies...
Spare IDE and SATA cables, and various adapters...
Spare screws and standoffs

Most motherboards and/or cases come with the screws and adaptors and cables you need to put a build together. Some of the things on your list sound useful and I'll probably pick them up (paint brush, zip ties, could use more spare parts, and I've been meaning to get a multimeter...), but I don't see me ever needing a soldering iron or a stethoscope for everyday computer building. Not that they wouldn't be useful on occasion, but they aren't something I'd _need_.


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## Phædrus241

One thing I'm considering is making it a less formal setup, and more personal. I get on the phone with the customer, or meet them in person, talk over their build, what they need and want and can afford... And maybe I don't offer a formal warranty. I tell them, this isn't a business, I can't afford to give a full warranty... But I can give you technical support when you need it, I can go through the RMA process for you, install parts for you... But only for the computer I build, and not for every little issue.

One benefit about the south is that things like that are a little more likely to be accepted than in the north. Rather than everything having to be a business transaction, many people can be comfortable with framing it in terms of a friendly exchange: "I build what you want, you tip me for it, then I help with any problems with it that I can solve". 

It might work, it might not. But I do think that's worth putting on the table.


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## Win2KPro

It looks like you have a pretty good start on the tools. I use the stethoscope quite a bit, it's great for finding bad fan bearings, buzzing coils, whining capacitors, etc. If I recall it was pretty cheap under $10 if I remember correctly.

Probably about 50% of my business is malware clean-up and data recovery, 30% repair and about 20% new builds.

I've got 4 or 5 different power supply testers and use them quite often. I have found that about 25% of all mechanical problems are power supply related. I get a lot of machines in with blown power supplies that's one reason why I have a workbench power supply so I can test their board with a known good power supply after their's blows to make sure when it blew it didn't take out other components. Also, I pre-test all my power supply's for new builds before I install them in the chassis.

I hook any machine I'm working on or building up to the UPS. In building as you probably well know some times it's necessary to update the BIOS. If you ever are going to get a power outage it seems to happen during a BIOS flash. 

Good luck with your venture.


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## Phædrus241

Thanks for the feedback. I do have a UPS, but it's protecting my main rig. I'll probably get another eventually--a nicer one, and use this one for the shop, since it isn't really powerful enough for my computer.

The stethoscope does sound interesting. Where did you get it?

Anyway, thanks again. I'm still getting feedback on a few other sites, and revising my business plan and such. I'll probably start this for real this weekend. I'll post back here how it goes. :wink:



EDIT: 4500th post?


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## Doby

> If someone has downloaded fifty viruses over Limewire and wants someone else to fix it for them, they can go to someone else.


Don't have that attitude these people can and will be good customers plus you take care of them and they will give you many referrals. I built my business small or not on it.
Don't count on craigs list its a waste full of nasty people.

My point is start small, I would love to build nothing but dream machines but the reality of it is you have to do the small stuff and build off that


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## Phædrus241

Of course. I just specced a "base" rig, that costs $400 shipped with Windows, that I could probably charge $500 for. It's superior to most Dell computers at $500 (except one on "special offer"--the computer is better but the Dell comes with a monitor, darnit).


CoolerMaster Elite 330 RC-330-KKN1-GP mid tower case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119115
$39.81

SeaSonic SS-300ES Bronze 300W PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151085
$37.99

Asus M2N68-AM PLUS 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131613
$49.99

AMD Athlon II x2 240 2.8GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103688
$56.99

Kingston 2x1GB DDR2 800 CL6
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134635
$42.99

Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB AAKS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136074
$49.99

Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289
$26.99

Windows 7 Home Premium 64
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754
$104.99



About $405 shipped. It would work well for those looking for a good home/office build in that price range. Then for extra I could up the RAM, up the CPU, bigger hard drive, different case... And the increase in price would be about equal to the increase in cost, rather than Dell who charges almost full retail price for the upgrade, not counting the fact that you're not paying for the cheaper item.

The problem is going below the $400 mark. I can't out-compete Dell or HP at that price range. To those who actually do this, do you sell any rigs for less than ~$400?


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## Doby

> To those who actually do this, do you sell any rigs for less than ~$400?


No most of the machines that sell for that are dated meaning the don't have enough ram or a slower cpu and I just ain't going to sell something like that even if I could compete with it. There are those that only look for a bargin but some when I explain my support and warranty along with the better/upgraded parts I use will spend some more.

But again I have either done work for these people or I have been recommended by there friends so its important to build that trust. When someone calls and say's I want a computer for $400 I tell them I can't and explain why. I think someone else mentioned about the percentages of what they do and mine are similar,

50% malware removel/reinstalls, 30% upgrades/repairs and 20% newbuilds so its very hard to just build computers


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## Wrench97

Watch that M2N board Linderman and I both had high failure rates with the early ones.


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## Win2KPro

You can get a mechanics stethoscope here;

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41966

it's even cheaper than I remembered. I had to make my own hard plastic end to go over the extension to use with coils and capacitors rather than just using the metal rod extension.


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## Ddraig

Another thing you could do is to purchase barebones kits and work with those. 

Just saw this on tigerdirect and made me think about it http://www.tigerdirect.com/email/wem2184.asp?cm_sp=Right Nav-_-email-_-wem2184

But yea a $400 computer is not quite doable if you want good quality components.


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## Phædrus241

Thanks Win.


@Ddraig: I've seen that kit before, and it's a joke. Flimsy case, garbage PSU, the cheapest and weakest quad core CPU made to date, 8GB of slow (667MHz) RAM. I wouldn't use one myself, let alone sell it to a customer I planned to keep.


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## Phædrus241

I'm all set up to do this, but I have one problem: where and how can I advertise for little or no cost?


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## Wrench97

Supermarkets and some other stores have bulletin boards to hang advertisements.


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## Phædrus241

None of the local stores appear to have those. I was going to put up a few at the college, and a Craigslist ad, and there's a restaurant that will let you put stuff up. But that's about it.

Anything else you can think of?


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## MonsterMiata

Its a little time consuming but you could go around and set a few one some peoples vehicles while they are shopping or whatever. I personally find it annoying but its impossible to avoid the add at this point.


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