# [SOLVED] 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal



## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

Hi, my mother has a 96 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. The starter recently died one day when we when to start the car. It actually got weaker and weaker over a few days until it just wouldn't turn over. I boosted the car thinking it was a weak battery...but I have headlights, power to all electrical systems. During the boosting process I decided to test the starter by lightly tapping it with a prybar while I had a friend try and start it. The starter would then make weak attempts to start and would still fail.

This leads me to believe it is the starter because the Alternator is only 7months old. Also the boosting did not help.

My question now is, how difficult is it to remove the starter on these newer cars? Does anybody have any experience in removing these? If so could you give me a few pointers on what to expect when trying to remove and replace the starter?


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

not familiar with that model generally
disconnect the battery
disconnect the power lead to the starter
remove the 2 or 3 securing bolts


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

ok, so there is no complicated linkage from the starter to the engine itself...just plug and play so to speak?

Nevermind...I can't even see the bolts that attach it to the engine block. Even if I did, I don't see the room to remove the part. I hate the auto companies. It's no wonder they're going belly up.


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

Hi Eremon1,

You'll have to jack the car up and crawl under it to get the starter off. Be sure to set the brake and put jack stands under it before crawling under there. 

I would check the battery cables first before removing the starter. At the battery, pull both cables off and look for corrosion. Use a wire brush on the battery posts/faces and on the cable connector. Now, go under the car and check the large battery cable that connects to the solenoid on the side of the starter (be sure it is disconnected at the battery). Check the mounting bolts where the starter mounts to the engine as that is the path that the current takes back to the negative terminal of the battery. Make sure they are tight. You might even find that you have to remove the two mounting bolts and rotate the starter to remove the large cable. Now....since you are this far, just go ahead and remove the other little wire and see if the starter can be turned unside down and manipulated through the cross members and other parts that are in the way. :grin: 

Use a light coat of grease on the connectors when you reconnect the cables.
The solenoid stays on the starter. A new or rebuilt one will have one on it.
Also be careful tighting the battery cable at the starter. Normally the post is copper and the threads will strip if you overtighten them. 

Have fun.
Mack1


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

Thank you very much for the replies Mack and Dai.

Also one quick question, is it possible on these newer cars to have enough power for the electronics and not enough to even energize the solenoid and starter?

I ask this because when I turn the key there is no sound but there is power to the instruments, radio and head lights.


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*



> I ask this because when I turn the key there is no sound but there is power to the instruments, radio and head lights.


Hi Eremon1,

Radio and instruments don't draw much current. Lights and horn both draw a good amount. If the lights are bright, you should have enough power to pull in the starter solenoid, or at least enough to hear a click. Check the ignition fuse. 

Best regards,
Mack1


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

And so if I don't hear the clicks with a good fuse it's more than likely a problem with the solenoid/starter or a connection?

Incidentally I pulled the two connections and checked to corrosion. I then finely sanded the washer-shape connectors and I greased them with arctic silver cpu paste because I figured it would protect and add to the conductivity. But still nothing.

In my experience when a starter failed you would still hear something, even if only unhealthy clicks. With this car, the starting got progressively weak over 3 days until I'm where I am now with it, no sound during the attempt at startup. Still have electronics, not sure how bright the head lights are since I can only work on it in the day, but they are coming on.

Tried boosting it with the help of a bystander, but the guy wouldn't let me touch anything and only connected the cables for a minute or two, attempted to start with nothing and then he gave up.


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

I just tested the battery with a voltmeter and the battery is definitely good at 12.65v. So it's down to the solenoid, the starter or both.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

Starters bad, when you tapped on it and the noise changed that was enough to tell you you were looking in the correct area, you should be able to get at from under the car 2 bolts up from the bottom of the starter into the block.


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

How can one tell if it is indeed the starter and not the solenoid? Somebody I was talking to was saying something about it possibly being the relay...I thought the relay was the solenoid. Am I correct or is there a relay or something that could be bad somewhere?


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## dai (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

the starter and solenoid are usually combined in a single unit


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*



dai said:


> the starter and solenoid are usually combined in a single unit


Yeah, but they can be separated from one another on mine. I have been told that the solenoid can fail on it's own. I don't want to have to buy both if only say the solenoid has failed. It is much cheaper at 20$ than the starter at 180$.

I just want to know if diagnostically speaking, the fact that it went from strong starts to weaken over 3 days before getting to the complete no clicks at all, full 12v on the battery sounds like a dead solenoid or is actually a dead starter.


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

Some vehicles have a relay that provides the current needed for the solenoid. That puts a smaller work load from the ignition switch. I have a 96 S10 blazer and it does not. Current flow is from the ignition switch through a park/neutral switch and straight to the starter solenoid. 

Use your voltmeter and get someone to help you. Crawl under the car and measure the voltage on the small wire going to the starter solenoid. The helper will turn the ignition switch to start (with the shifter in either park or neutral, assuming an automatic transmission) and you should measure 12 volts on that wire. Measure from that wire to the engine block or frame, normally a bolt since most everything else either has paint or rust on it. 

Since it worked the other day, it probably will have 12 volts on it. 
And, by the way, artic silver paste seemed like a good idea, but I'm not sure. The good conduction rating is for heat conduction, not electrical. Normally just a common grease or even vasoline will keep the air and moisture out, thus preventing lead or copper oxide which is the insolating items that prevent good electrical conduction. Removing the oxides is the reason for the wire brush or sandpaper. 

If you don't find 12 volts at the solenoid and would like for me to post the electrical prints for the Blazer, just say so. You might find that it is the same as yours (wire color codes, etc.).

Best regards,
Mack1


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

Most of the time today the solenoid fails because the starter draws too much current through it usually just replacing the solenoid is a short term fix, as the draw will damage the new one also.


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*



mack1 said:


> Some vehicles have a relay that provides the current needed for the solenoid. That puts a smaller work load from the ignition switch. I have a 96 S10 blazer and it does not. Current flow is from the ignition switch through a park/neutral switch and straight to the starter solenoid.


Okay, I have a Haynes manual with the wires schematics for this car. I will look through those to see if I can find a relay between the solenoid and the starter. I imagine they'd use a 'protection' relay for the reason Wrench mentioned about the starter sometimes drawing too much current from the solenoid which can cause it to fail...



Wrench said:


> Most of the time today the solenoid fails because the starter draws too much current through it usually just replacing the solenoid is a short term fix, as the draw will damage the new one also.


That makes sense. They sure know how to make them! 

So if I don't find a relay between the solenoid and starter or I don't measure 12 volts at the solenoid during startup then I guess I should just replace both anyway?

Added **Okay I looked at the starting/charging electrical schematic and there is a Fusible Link labeled (20 GA-RUST) from a red lead off the generator to a black lead on the solenoid where the positive lead off the battery also appears to connect.

I will have to get under the hood to look again, but I seem to remember there being a harness cover on the wiring from the alternator and also from the battery. So I'm not sure how big this 'fusible link' is or what it even should look like. Do they fail?**


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

It is not the fuseable link that supplies current to the altenator and the second one to the Ignition switch they're either blown or intact, on a GM the the battery cable goes directly to the starter a small usually purple wire from the ignition switch through the neutral safety or clutch switch if a stick to the starter, on the newer models the engine ecm and a relay on the firewall tie in to the safety circuit, but regardless if the starter is engaging and attempting to crank that circuit is working ok, the key here is by tapping on the starter you had a change thus the problem is at the starter nowhere else replacing the solenoid only on a GM is usually a temp fix the problem comes back, In a shop the labor to R&R the starter and replace the solenoid plus the cost of the part puts favorable light on the price of the starter.

Have a look here you need the engine size to see the correct price> http://cpwstore.carpartswholesale.c...294967247+4294965997&Nr=AND(universal:0)&sv=0


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## Riskyone101 (Oct 22, 2008)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

You said there was noise coming from the starter? Replace them both.

And also its not good at all to keep cranking with a bad starter, it probably did damage to the electrical system already, woulkdnt be surprised.


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*



Riskyone101 said:


> You said there was noise coming from the starter? Replace them both.
> 
> And also its not good at all to keep cranking with a bad starter, it probably did damage to the electrical system already, woulkdnt be surprised.


No worries about the electrical system. I've gone over every circuit in the car now.

I've removed the starter after a little bit of work. After undoing the 2 mounting bolts it basically just fell out. I'm waiting for my new starter which will be here Monday morning. My question now is, is there anything special I have to do when installing the new one? Or just plug it in and bolt it up?


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*



> My question now is, is there anything special I have to do when installing the new one? Or just plug it in and bolt it up?


Nope, that's about it. ray:

Have a nice day.
Mack1


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

Thanks a bunch everybody! I'm just going to pickup the starter in a few minutes and I'll be putting it in shortly after that. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Eremon1 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 96 Cultass Supreme Starter Removal*

Thanks again everybody. I'm up and running again, she fired up right off the bat.


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## mack1 (Nov 27, 2007)

Great news.

Have a nice day.


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