# Frequent CMOS reset problem



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi…I am in problem with my Asus P4SGX-MX. The problem is when I turn off the CPU a little movement/vibration to the CPU(casing) causes resetting of CMOS setup. I observed if there is no disturbance to the CPU(casing) the CMOS setup retains and there is no problem. I do not think so a disturbance like some movement/vibration to the CPU(casing) will cause the loss of COMS setting. 

It should be noted that in BIOS setup program I found that there is no “Reset Configuration Data” option as described in the manual of P4SGX-MX (page 59, 2-27)of the ‘Boot Menu’. I thought updating the BIOS may repair this option. I updated the BIOS using EZ flash utility but still there is no “Reset Configuration Data” option in the Boot Menu of BIOS setup program. Only one option missing in the BIOS setup program and it is “Reset Configuration Data” option in the Boot Menu.

There may not be the CMOS battery problem!?


So, what may be the problem of my Asus P4SGX-MX. and how can I get rid of it.? Help please.

Mainboard: Asus P4SGX-MX
BIOS: ver 1005
Processor: Pentiun Celeron 1.7ghz
Onboard Sound and Disply.


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

How old is this PC? Is the PC maintaining date/time settings after it's been turned off for awhile? If not, your battery is probably dead. The vibration thing concerns me - are you sure that it's vibration causing the problem. Have you opened up the case and cleaned all of the dust off the motherboard and components? Is there a reset button on the case attached to the motherboard? Is it possible that this is connected to the wrong jumpers or the switch is faulty? Are there any loose connectors between the motherboard and power supply?

There are many possible causes for your problem - I would start by looking at the things I mentioned above.

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi Jhon,
Thanks for your interest, 

The machine was bought in 2003. I opened the PC and dismantleted and refitted all the parts including the processor, the CPU battery aswell. in opend casing condition i ran the PC and if no movement to any parts of the PC reatains the CMOS setup. I restarted again and again no problem and retain CMOS setup for hours. I turn off the CPU and touched the IDE cable/the RAM/ the cooling fan/some movement of the casing then i restarted and found all the CMOS setup including time were lost and retained to its default condition. Even the keyoard is unknown to him when i first reset the CPU after disturbance. The C.P.R. properties of the BIOS make the system workable/bootable. 

I tried to focus on the BIOS set up program but failed to draw any attention to that. 

Thanks,


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

Have you ever replaced the battery on the motherboard? If not, based on the age of this PC, I'm thinking that the battery which maintains the CMOS settings and real-time clock is likely dead. Replacing the battery would be the first thing I'd try given the symptoms you've described.

If you don't know the location or type of battery on your motherboard - reply with the exact make/model of the PC and/or motherboard and I should be able to find out the location and type of battery involved.

It's possible that you've got a loose connection somewhere that's causing these reboots - but I'd first like to rule out the battery as a possible cause.

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi Jhon,
Thanks again for your interest, 

One thing to tell that I cheked today, if I shutdown and turn off the main power then CMOS setup lost and CMOS setup retains only when shutdown but the main power to CPU is on and no disturbance to the CPU.

I replaced the CMOS battery with a specified new one a few days ago.

I tried to focus on the BIOS set up program but failed to draw any attention to that. 

Thanks,

-engrju.


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

So did replacing that battery resolve the problem? I'm not clear from your most recent reply.

There might be a jumper set incorrectly on your motherboard which is forcing a CMOS setup everything you reset or power-up your PC. The motherboard maual would give you details about the jumpers involved with CMOS reset. It's also possible that your CMOS chip is defective.

Go to:

http://support.asus.com/

From there, you can click on FAQ, Download or Troubleshooting - then search for your model "P4SGX-MX". In these sections, you can download BIOS updates, read FAQs about your motherboard or troubleshoot specific problems.

Question - are you physically unplugging your computer or turning off the power strip it might be plugged into when this CMOS reset occurs?

Let me know

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

JHON,

Replacing CMOS battery did not resolve the problem.

The jumper setting is according to the manual. I downloaded the BIOS from ASUS and updated using EZflash utility which i mentioned in my first post. 

You thought there might be a problem in CMOS chip i also thought like that. I also think there may be problem in some capacitors linked with CMOS chip.

What about the "reset configuration data" option in the BIOS setup program? It is not present in the BIOS setup program as mentioned in the manual. I think this is an error in the BIOS setup program and if this error can be resolved then the CMOS reset problem may be solved. Do you think so?

How can I repair the BIOS program that "reset configuration data" option will be present in BIOS setup program as mentioned in the manual?

-engrju


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

Go to the following Link to download the manual for your motherboard (it's a PDF file):

http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock478/p4sgx-mx/e1242_p4sgx-mx.pdf

Once it's completely load (may take a few minutes), go to page #25. Read through and follow the instructions for Clearing/Erasing RTC RAM. This will involve turning OFF the PC (unplug), removing the battery from the motherboard, switching a jumper on the motherboard, waiting at least 10 seconds, then switching the jumper back to it's normal setting, replacing the battery, then turning ON the PC.

This should completely reset the CMOS configuration. You will have to reset the Time/Date settings in the BIOS setup.

NOTE: it's possible that the jumper on your motherboard is set to 2:3, i.e. RESET CMOS, which might explain why you're getting this message.

Try this and report back to me.

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

Jhon,
I like to inform you that i had applied all those tips/tricks sugested in your last replies before i posted this thread. I can assemble correctly all the parts of a CPU follwing its manual. Also know which will be the correct jumper setting of CLRTC as per manual. In my PC i have a copy of the manual (P4SGX-MX) that you mentioned. 

I like to draw your attention on page 59 of this(P4SGX-MX) manual. Here in 1st line of the page mentioned about the "reset configuration data". This option is missing in BIOS setup program of my P4SGX-MX. Only one option missing in the BIOS setup program and it is “Reset Configuration Data” option in the Boot Menu. Dose this causing the problem?

I think this may causes the prbolem. How can i repair this?

Already i updated the BIOS using EZflash utility. But still no "reset configuration data" option. Updating BIOS using Aflash utility may repair this option (I think). If this option is repaired the problem may be resolved.
Thanks,

-engrju.


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

One think I forgot to ask - are you overclocking at all? I ask because your motherboard has a feature called C.P.R.(CPU Parameter Recall).

When the system hangs due to overclocking failure, there is no need to open the case to clear CMOS data. Simply restart the system and the BIOS will automatically restore the CPU default setting for each parameter

Do you have the BIOS configured for Plug-n-Play? Sometimes the Plug-n-Play settting will cause things to reconfigure. Generally you want to turn Plug-n-Play OFF, even though XP is a Plug-n-Play OS.

If that reset config option is missing from he BIOS - then there's either a problem with a BIOS setting that is disabling this feature or there's a problem BIOS version you're using. Try re-flashing with an older revision of the BIOS. Asus tends to release "beta" BIOS - which I believe is the case with the latest version on Asus's support site for your motherboard. Try BIOS version 1005 and if that doesn't help, try v1004.

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

Jhon

Thanks for your query, I never over clocked the CPU. The C.P.R is one who is helping me most to operate this machine. Thanks Asus to create such a feature. 

I am still unable to get a clue who is creating this CMOS reset problem. I asked about this to Asus technical secrvices but got no answer. 

Thanks.

-engrju


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

Did you try toggling the Plug-n-Play setting in your BIOS? Do you have the ACPI Suspend to RAM option Disabled? Do you have "Reset configuration data" set to NO?

Have you tried flashing your motherboard with v1005 or v1004?

I know that this is frustrating as you've tried just about everything. You may simply have a defective flash chip on your motherboard. If this is the case - you could either replace the motherboard or have it factory serviced by ASUS.

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

Jhon

I am not frusrtrated about the machine. The machine works smoothly. If there is BIOS chip problem there might occur other problem/s during operating system running. But there is no problem to run. The machine can run for days (checked 36 hours) with no error.

The only problem is CMOS reset problem. During booting after POST the first screen that comes automatically is 'Advanced' menu of BIOS setup program and highlighted the 'CPU speed' option (see page 47 of the manual pls). It indicates the speed was changed (automaticaly ?!) all other settings is in CMOS resets to default as well.

Is it a CMOS chip problem only? But if there is CMOS chip problem there should some beep indicating CMOS error; actually ther is no error beep. Where is the CMOS chip locating? Is it below the CMOS battery? Can i replace this?

Do you feel boor answering me? 

Thanks.
-engrju.


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

I'm not bothered answering you whatsoever. If I gave you this impression - I apologize at it was never my intent. I'm just personally frustrated that all of the obvious solutions you've tried haven't fixed the problem.

You motherboard IS somewhat old as motherboards go - so a bad chip or component would not surprise me. The CMOS chips on old motherboards (older than yours) used to be plugged into a IC socket - where the chips could be extracted and replaced. Most new motherboards tend to have their CMOS and flash chips soldered on the motherboard - making user replacement basically impossible.

If you refer to your manual - it has a diagram of the motherboard where the CMOS chip and related chips are clearly located. Open up the case, find this location on your motherboard and see of those chips are in sockets or if they're soldered, surface mounted chips. If they're in sockets - the chip should be replaceable - if not - you'd either have to send the motherboard to ASUS for factory repair or RMA.

The alternative would be to simply live with the problem as it is more annoying than anything else. Given the age/technology of the board - it might make more sense to upgrade rather than replace a legacy motherboard.

Hope this advice helps.

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

Dear jhon.

I can locate the BIOS chip (my one is on a socket) and CMOS battery. Are the BIOS chip and CMOS chip/RAM same? 
If not help me to locate the CMOS chip.

What is 'Mother board is set to JumperFree mode' refer to page-47 of the P4SGX-MX manual in CPU speed option? Where this jumper is located in my MB? I could not locate it. Help if you can locate it.

In my last reply i mentioned "During booting after POST the first screen that comes automatically is 'Advanced' menu of BIOS setup program and highlighted the 'CPU speed' option (see page 47 of the manual pls). It indicates the speed was changed (automaticaly ?!) all other settings is in CMOS resets to default as well."- Did you analize this?
Thanks.

-engrju.


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

If you look on Page #17 of your manual (1.5 Motherboard Layout), the chip labeled "2Mbit Flash Bios" located directly "south" of the battery is both the CMOS and Flash BIOS.

The manual DOES make reference to JumperFree mode, but nowhere does it actually define a jumper or BIOS setting to configure "JumperFree" mode. Question - in that "Advanced Menu" on Page 47, is CPU Speed set to (manual or otherwise). If it's set to MANUAL, what are the other settings? This could possibly be the key to your problems.

Question - what BIOS version is your motherboard currently FLASHED to?

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

Jhon
The BIOS that is currently flashed is 1005gxmx.awd and previous one was 1003gxmx.awd. The setup program i observed in previous one was identical to current one. In previous there was no 'Reset Configuraton Data' and the current has not also.

In CPU speed option there are shown three options -manual/1700Mhz/2266Mhz. I set it to my CPU's speed 1700 Mhz. Never set it to manual or other and applied no change to other options aswel.

What dose the 'motherboard is set to JumperFree mode' mean and how it can be applied in my Motherboard i could not recognise; as i found no jumper as described in my MB.

Thanks.

Engrju.


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

JumperFree mode generally means just what it says - that you can configure EVERYTHING via BIOS setup and never have to open the PC and manually manipulate jumpers on the motherboard. I'm a bit confused as to WHY the ASUS manual for your board talks about JumperFree, but doesn't clarify any actual jumper or BIOS settings to enable or disable this mode. I guess we can just assume that your board is permanently configured for "JumperFree" mode.

Just out of curiousity - what happens if you set your CPU Speed to Manual? Are you given additional BIOS choices?

Unfortunately, while ASUS has downloadable BIOS files for your motherboard model, I can't find it in the FAQ section on their support site.

What switches or jumpers do you have connected to the "System Panel Connector", Page 31 of the MB manual?

What are are your motherboard's "Boot Menu" settings configured to - and do you keep any floppy discs or CD ROMS in your PC's drives when you boot?

Do you have the "Plug-n-Play OS" setting turned OFF? What are your power settings?

I've probably asked some of these questions before - so sorry about that. You clearly know what you're doing - and you have tried just about everything possible. That said, I'm thinking you've got a bad CMOS/Flash chip that's causing the reset everything you power-cycle your PC.

This especially true if this behavior only started recently. If the PC has ALWAYS given you this error, then I'd be inclinded to say something was misconfigured (or possibly defective from DAY 1). If this is something that recently started happening, then I'd say based on the age of your motherboard that there's a hardware failure with that chip.

- John

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

jhon

"System Panel Connectors are ATX switch-ok, reset switch-ok, Speaker-ok, IDE led-ok, power led-ok, no connection to SMI led as there is no connetor in my casing for that.

"Boot Menu"-1st Boot CD ROM, 2nd HDD, other i disabled, Bootup flopy seek disabled.
Thre is no flopy drive crrently. No disk in CD ROM drive when i boot.

"Plug-n-Play OS" setting turned OFF and power settings disabled give no better result.
Reset configuration data option missing (you know).
POST enabled
Intererupt mode APIC etc.

I do not know the full history of the mother board. The problem is not reecent rather may be cronic. I got it with this problem in it two months ago. When i got the MB i found there was no CLRTC jumper in the position i.e Jumper free! In that condition the machine was might be installed to windows XP so many times. Using the manual i inserted the (first!?) CLRTC jumper.

Thanks.

-engrju


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

Some things to try (one at a time):

1) Disable POST

2) Toggle ACPI Interrupt mode to OFF

The CLRTC jumper you mentioned - try removing it just for grins - see what effect this has.

Also, boot up Windows as usual, go into the Device Manager, right click on computer, open up the Computer Tree at the top - is it set to ACPI Uniprocessor PC or "Normal PC"?

It sounds like the problem you're having is more of an annoyance than anything else. If tweaking one of those 3 settings eliminates that POWER-ON message - then we're good, if NOT, I don't believe that it would be cost effective to replace the CMOS chip if that part is in fact the culprit.

Try those changes and let me know what happens.

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

hi Jhon
Sorry, i was unable to connect to internet for last few days. i am happy to inform you that i might got the clue causing the CMOS reset problem. There may be a connection problem in the 20 pin ATX power supply connector. The 1st pin of lower row of 20 pin connector (+12.0VDC yealow) is causing the problem. I observed that movment of this yelow wire cause the loss of standby power in the motherboard. When the CPU vibrates this pin some how lose its connection and in the meantime the power in the CPU may causing the change of CPU speed/ parameters. Is this problem in the 20 pin Motherboard connector or in the power cable? 
I connected this cable firmly and get better result. A little vibration dose not cause the CMOS reset problem.

Help me about the aflash.exe utility. I tried to update BIOS using aflash utility. In the manual it is described as in the main manu there will be 1.& 2. (page 36-38 of the manual) options and in the option '2.' there will be 'Update BIOS including BOOT Block and ESCD'. But when i run aflash.exe the main menu appered and in option '2.' it is shown as 'Update BIOS without BOOT Block and ESCD'. I am unable to get the option 'Update BIOS including BOOT Block and ESCD'. 

Is there any key called 'also key'?
what is it? I found it in the internet from Asus. Here is a copy from that instruction- i do not understand the 'also key'. 

"2. Update BIOS Including Boot Block and ESCD
This item can update BIOS Boot Block and also update ACPI ESCD(Extended System Configuration Data) value from another BIOS file. This BIOS can be a new file or a backup copy from "Save Current BIOS to File" (Save Current BIOS to File). Method of downloading new BIOS version file can be seen in the next section. If you wish to update the BIOS file, please hold down [2] in the Main Menu and also key, then "Update BIOS Including Boot Block and ESCD" screen will appear, key in the name of the BIOS needed and the path (eg. A:\XXX-XX.XXX), then hit again."


Thanks.
Engrju.


----------



## johnhook (Apr 23, 2008)

engrju,

If you have the option to save the BIOS and/or ESCD data in the flash program - DO SO as this will give you a backup of your PC's existing BIOS and configuration data.

Don't worry about preserving the ESCD data when flashing your motherboard with the new BIOS. The ESCD is just the configuration settings for the current BIOS installed. You can always re-configure these settings after the new BIOS version is flashed. Before you flash with the NEW BIOS, go into your BIOS SETUP and write down the settings you have in place now - that way you can manually reconfigure these settings after you've flashed your motherboard with the NEW BIOS version.

Hope this makes sense.

- John


----------



## engrju (Apr 27, 2008)

jhon,

The CMOS reset problem is solved. Thanks for your co-operation. 

In my last post i asked about the BIOS update using Aflash utility. The Aflash utility screens do not display as described in the manual. In the option [2] it shows "update BIOS without BOOt Blkock and ESCD" but in the manual it is written as "update BIOS including BOOT Block and ESCD". What about this issue.
Thanks.
Enjrju.


----------



## m_a_k1985 (Aug 11, 2009)

Thank You John and Enjrju,

Your detailed conversation with each other has really been informative

I am experiencing similar problems with my pc. my pc was a second hand pc bought only a few months ago (with respect to the date this post is published).

PC Specs
--------

Processor: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz
Motherboard:	VIA Technologies Model: PM266A-8235
BIOS Version:	Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG, 7/8/2004 (!!!)
RAM(s): DDR I 512+256
Graphics Card:	NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500

The PC was working fine but due to a lot of power outages my CMOS settings reset.

However my symptoms are slightly different. 

First of all my CPU clock never resets even after CMOS settings are reset (it had only reset once when i changed my battery (A few days ago with respect to the date this post is published))

Secondly, my settings do not always reset when a power failure occurs... usually this happens after 2-3 days or roughly after 15-20 power outages

FYI i use my pc 24hrs a day as i download movies using torrents etc... How ever out of those power outages (lasting an hour) occur regularly around 8-10 times a day (!!!!!!!!!!)

I bought a new battery (a cheap one i might add) and replaced the old one... But replacing the battery has absolutely no effect

Please suggest me some alternative to solve my problem too.

Whether i should buy an expensive battery again ;(, or i should update my BIOS... in case of upgrading please tell me how to do it ('cuz till u mentioned it, i had no idea that Bios can also be upgraded!)

Any help would be appreciated

Thnkz

m_a_k1985

P.S.
I have some technical knowledge regarding pc's though not as advance as urs (but i get the idea)


----------

