# mini itx gaming computer?



## Chyrio (Feb 23, 2010)

hey guys just for fun i want to try and build a successful mini itx gaming computer. which graphics card would fit in a pci slot and still be able to run games like garrys mod?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

A mini setup won't make much of a gamer.
What Mobo are you going to use?


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## RyanRobinson (Sep 20, 2010)

What Tyree said.

I suppose you could build a powerful, sleek media centre with marginal gaming capabilities. Make sure you get a low profile GPU to play those HD movies.


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## Acuta73 (Mar 17, 2008)

IF you use one of the Core2 Duo boards, you can do a gaming rig on an mITX. Caveat being, by the time you put a full-size video card on board, and a PSU large enough to handle it, you pretty much threw small form factor out the window beyond having a tiny motherboard without many amenities. Getting a GPU powerful enough to qualify as "gaming" in SFF just isn't possible. I HAVE seen people use a PCI extension and essentially "stack" the MoBo and the GPU. Probably be hell on cooling, though, and ya still got the PSU to deal with.

Short and simple:

Can it be done? Yes
Is it worth it? Probably not, but that's always a personal preference thing.


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## Chyrio (Feb 23, 2010)

they have a gigabyte that supports an i7 and it also has a pci x16 port. you suppose i could put an i5 and a radeon 5770 and make a decent gamer?


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## hhnq04 (Mar 19, 2008)

One of the biggest problems with trying to do gaming in a small case (aside from things physically fitting) is that you're going to have terrible cooling. You'll be limited on number and position of fans, and with the cramped case, air flow will be at a minimum.


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## Chyrio (Feb 23, 2010)

no my plan is just to make mounts coming out of the psu and mount it on top, then just leave it out in the air.


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## emosun (Oct 4, 2006)

Why not simply have no case at all then? It would make as much sense as using an matx case and mounting hardware that's too big to the outside of the case.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

emosun said:


> Why not simply have no case at all then? It would make as much sense as using an matx case and mounting hardware that's too big to the outside of the case.


Ditto^


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## Chyrio (Feb 23, 2010)

you guys tink that just leaving out in the open would be alright for cooling it? and the gpu?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

That's not ideal but it would probably be cooler that way than inside a mini case.


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

Wasn't the initial mission to "build a successful mini itx gaming computer"? Once you mount any component outside the case, it is no longer a small form factor computer, but simply a bunch of pieces hakked together. Sure it can be done, but why bother? You lose the only advantages of a SFF computer, namely size, portability and aesthetics.


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## Chyrio (Feb 23, 2010)

no my plan was to mount the itx board on top of the psu then build a steel cage that goes around the outside so if you could imagine a lunch pail the psu would be the ice plastic thing on the bottom and the board and the goodies the thing that holds the chips and stuff. i would complete it with a handle so it truely was a lunch pail


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## emosun (Oct 4, 2006)

You would almost be better off buying a laptop if you want extreme portability.

But most likely you would be best of just using a lan box. Lan boxes are still very portable but not so ridiculously small that you have to sacrifice perfomance for space.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Mini ITX test Bench case> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112277

Or a case that takes a mITX board and a full size ATX supply and card> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112227

But the cooling is going to be an issue.

Motherboard> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128448


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## Chyrio (Feb 23, 2010)

eh i know thats possible emosun. buying a laptop would definitely be easier but whats the fun in that? i mean this would just be cool thats why i want to build it. i already have a laptop, granted its no gaming laptop but i definitely dont have 1500 to buy the alienware i want.


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## Acuta73 (Mar 17, 2008)

Chyrio said:


> they have a gigabyte that supports an i7 and it also has a pci x16 port. you suppose i could put an i5 and a radeon 5770 and make a decent gamer?


That would make a gamer, for sure. The board Wrench linked is pretty insane for an mITX. You still need to deal with a HUGE card and a full-size 750w-ish PSU (Modular, if you've even a bit of sanity).

Found a PCI extension *HERE*. *KEEP IN MIND*: This WILL slow down your card a bit, no questions asked. An HD58xx would be a good choice to maintain "gamer" frame-rates.

Here we get back to "Is it worth it?". The price for a mini-gamer will likely be _MORE_ than a full-size gamer. You willing to shell out the bucks? If you are, I'm willing to help you design a case, if you want. You're gonna have to be a bit handy with metal fabrication, though. Your idea is really kinda cool, but the process is _anything_ but casual. Cooling will be a challenge, and just leaving it to the open air is a dubious solution, at best. PM me if you are interested in my help for a case (I'm neither an expert nor a professional, but I DO enjoy an engineering challenge!!).

You said the Alienware laptop was too expensive, the road you're going down has the potential to push (or exceed) that same price. Though it would be _MUCH_ more powerful of a gamer and a _HELL_ of a lot more reliable.


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## Acuta73 (Mar 17, 2008)

ok I did some playing. See what everyone thinks:

*CASE* (Credit: Wrench)
_*Motherboard*_(Credit: Wrench)
*GPU*
*RAM*(Credit: TSF Intel Build)
*PSU*
*Processor*
*CPU Cooler*
*Operating System*
*SSD* (yes, SSD. For OS+...they load FAST, I don't care about the TINY bit of extra work and that and the case only has 1 HDD slot + 1 SSD + 1 optical)
*HDD* (data + extras)

Cost = $1239.90 USD + S&H

Add ~$400 for custom-built case or ~$250 to mod that Lian Li (maybe more, maybe less. Depends on what you'd want)

Lose $99.99 to forget the SSD

Add what you want for an Optical.

Will that GPU *FIT*???

Yet another wish list on Newegg...LOL


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

You'll need to use a single slot GPU the dual slot card isn't going to fit a single slot case.

Forget the water cooling there is no room in the case for it.

All a 40Gig SSD will give you is a system that boots fast, there is not enough room on it to actually install any thing, I've been playing with a 64gig, Win7, Photoshop, and the normal additions is at 36 gig, not much room games, and the fuller the drive is the more it slows down.


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## hhnq04 (Mar 19, 2008)

wrench97 said:


> and the fuller the drive is the more it slows down.


I haven't actually used on myself to try them out, is that still the case? I thought I'd read that with SSD that it wasn't supposed to decrease in performance as it got full?


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## 1 g0t 0wn3d (Jan 31, 2007)

hhnq04 said:


> I haven't actually used on myself to try them out, is that still the case? I thought I'd read that with SSD that it wasn't supposed to decrease in performance as it got full?


I'm also pretty sure this is only to do with normal hard discs. I know my flash drive does not get slower when its almost full.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

The 750W Corsair TX Model is $110/ free ship.
I haven't used any SSD's and don't intend to until the price makes a big drop. Why pay so much extra for something that offers so little? 
Air Cooling is more than adequate and no concerns with leakage.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

From the the 1 I tested with just windows 7 on it at to now with, Photoshop, Ms Office, FF, and Call to Duty along with some image files, it's 90% full and almost 10% slower then 2 weeks ago.


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## Acuta73 (Mar 17, 2008)

Not sure why you are arguing the limitations of current SSD tech. It's well known they aren't yet as good as they will be, that's fine but isn't a reason to dismiss them out of hand. If you are experiencing slow R/W, you probably need to tune the drive to begin with. The silly thing at this point would be to buy big SSD. Insanely expensive and not that useful. A 30-40Gb drive is almost a must in most SFF builds due to severely limited space. The usual is to hot-swap an HDD and put your OS and primary utilities on the SSD. Less space, more storage, runs cool, and yes, boots a little faster. Somewhat shock-proof to boot (well, more than an HDD, anyway). Obvious trade-offs are the price and the required tuning/maintenance.

If you never build SFF, you most certainly have the luxury of waiting out better tech or at least lower prices. 

A non-modular PSU in an SFF case would probably not work, and even if it did, it would drive you to an early grave trying to deal with all the spaghetti. Yet another reason SFF builds tend to cost as much, or more than full-size builds. (though I'm of the opinion the extra $40-$50 for modular is always money well spent irregardless of the build)

H50 and H70 are fully sealed units, never heard of one leaking save for the occasional over-zealous modder doing something unfortunate to one.

So why build SFF in the first place? Well, ummm...why not? = )

Ok, size is the obvious reason, but also just the challenge of stuffing a computer into odd items and/or just seeing how SMALL you can make a working machine!

Silly things like this: http://www.themodbrothers.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2310


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## hhnq04 (Mar 19, 2008)

Sure, space is limited in SFF, so why dedicate a fair chunk of budget to another drive that will consume power while eating space / decreasing airflow just for some quicker boot / load times?

Sure, you can use an external drive for storage, but that defeats the purpose of the SFF IMHO.


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## Acuta73 (Mar 17, 2008)

Will answer your question with a question:

If you are hot-swapping drives, how many times do you want to install OS and utilities?

If you've the patience to sit through multiple OS installs, then no problem. However, you will still run into situations like Bill's RC car that had absolutely NO room for a large HDD, but an SDD was small and light enough to solve the problem. Mind you, he gets that stuff for free for the most part...


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Acuta73 said:


> Not sure why you are arguing the limitations of current SSD tech. It's well known they aren't yet as good as they will be, that's fine but isn't a reason to dismiss them out of hand.


I don't believe anyone is "arguing" about the obvious limitations of SSD's. 
I'm simply saying why pay so much for so little when the "old" technology is still more efficient and still require a standard drive for adequate storage.



Acuta73 said:


> H50 and H70 are fully sealed units, never heard of one leaking save for the occasional over-zealous modder doing something unfortunate to one.


Anything containing liquid is subject to leakage no matter how well it's sealed.
And, why invest another $80 for something that offers no real advantage?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The H50 won't fit in the small case.


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## Chyrio (Feb 23, 2010)

no, my idea was to take the psu and leave it as the base with something to hold it like a half an inch off the ground. then screw aluminum rods that conform to the mobo and gchip and meet at the top in a parallelogram shape. the hd would sit under the mobo but on top of the psu. and ill cover the top of the psu and hd with a sheet of plastic to keep from shorts. then screw a handle onto the parallelogram and viola a lunchbox gaming computer. maybe i could take two 45 mm fans and put them on all 4 sides that blow and suck air into the space between the top of the psu and the bottom of the mobo to cool the only area on it thats cramped.


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## Chyrio (Feb 23, 2010)

sorry i know its crap but i threw this together in a few minutes in fireworks


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## hhnq04 (Mar 19, 2008)

I get what you're saying / wanting to do. It's an interesting concept. I would try only putting fans on two opposite sides in a push / pull configuration if you do try this out. Reason being that with them on all four sides, some will be blowing air in the stream of another and disrupting the flow altogether, decreasing your overall air flow.

Or possibly have two fans on sides (intake) two on the top (exhaust). It would take more thought than I'm interested in putting into the physics of what configuration would work best - but you could have both intake on one side, exhaust on the opposite side top. Or have them alternating, i.e. bottom right of each opposite side has an intake with an exhaust across from it on top. This might create a deadzone in the middle though if there's too much interference, again not sure, and not feeling like thinking too hard this late.


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