# 92 buick century harmonic balancer



## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

My daughter bought a used, cheap 92 Buick Century, with a 3.3 liter v6 engine.

It had a very very bad harmonic balancer. The thing seemed to be missing 100% of the rubber, the belt could be pulled back and forth about six inches and it was making a huge amount of noise. We bought the haynes book and it said, "the bolt is hard to take off. (and it gave some instructions for removal.) Once the bolt is off, you should be able to remove the harmonic balancer by hand." That is a rough translation. 

We got the bolt off using the starter motor. See youtube for details, there are several good videos. Haynes wanted us to remove the flywheel cover which seemed to require unbolting the bell housing from the engine, and the starter motor is hidden behind the exhaust manifold on this model, so we could not really go that way. But once the bolt was off, we tried about six things to get the harmonic balancer of - it would not come off. The harmonic balancer is not threaded for a puller. In fact, there is no place to put the puller. Then we tried a two prong gear puller, and a three prong in two different sizes. No place to get a grip on the balancer, and the back of the edge is rounded so that you can't grab it. Use of prying items up to a four foot crowbar came up fruitless.

Finally, we tried a slide hammer, we were able to rig the slide hammer such that it used one claw and we enlarged a hole in the plate on the front of the harmonic balancer, and got a claw in. Solid grab, and we banged away until two people were exhausted. The balancer would not budge.

I'm afraid of using significant heat. Any thoughts as to how I can get this item off of the engine? We have the replacement device, it has a keyed shaft but it is not, far as I know or can see, tapered. We have an impact gun to do the reassembly.

So, again, from the top, just the high points.

Harmonic balancer on 3.3L V6 Buick Century was the worst I've ever seen. Tons of noise, huge amount of play on belt as the center of the balancer was only loosely coupled to the pulley part (the belt was tight, the play was in the direction of travel).

We got the bolt out using the starter motor method.

So, the harmonic balancer bolt is off, but the balancer won't come off. Hammering and prying don't work, and the balancer is supposed to come off by hand according to the haynes book, and it is not tapped for a harmonic balancer puller that uses bolts.

How do we get the harmonic balancer off?


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## octaneman (May 13, 2009)

Hi brasshopper 


The balancer should not be that difficult to pry off once the center bolt has been removed. Using a slide hammer to take it off is overkill and you risk doing more damage than good. The puller method is preferable because you are applying reverse pressure on the hub. Now, I'm not sure why it gave you such a hard time, because on the buick century's it is best to bring down the engine slightly to give you a clear view of the pulley by removing one of it's engine supports to hook up the threaded rod puller properly. It also requires a special puller, but you can use a 2 bolt or 3 bolt exterior puller to do the job ,the only difference is you need to put in a 10mm short socket to align the main bolt with the inner crankshaft when using a different puller other than the one recommended. The bolts to thread on the pulley have to go in approx. 2.5 inches ( maybe a little less) inside to get a solid grip before you start turning the main bolt. The bolt diameter is a 6mm which is not part of the extractor kit, but go to your local hardware store and pick up threaded rods with washers thick enough to withstand the pressure and hook up the puller. Turn the main rod slowly all the while making sure its dead center and it should come off.


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

octaneman said:


> Hi brasshopper
> 
> 
> The balancer should not be that difficult to pry off once the center bolt has been removed. Using a slide hammer to take it off is overkill and you risk doing more damage than good. The puller method is preferable because you are applying reverse pressure on the hub. Now, I'm not sure why it gave you such a hard time, because on the buick century's it is best to bring down the engine slightly to give you a clear view of the pulley by removing one of it's engine supports to hook up the threaded rod puller properly. It also requires a special puller, but you can use a 2 bolt or 3 bolt exterior puller to do the job ,the only difference is you need to put in a 10mm short socket to align the main bolt with the inner crankshaft when using a different puller other than the one recommended. The bolts to thread on the pulley have to go in approx. 2.5 inches ( maybe a little less) inside to get a solid grip before you start turning the main bolt. The bolt diameter is a 6mm which is not part of the extractor kit, but go to your local hardware store and pick up threaded rods with washers thick enough to withstand the pressure and hook up the puller. Turn the main rod slowly all the while making sure its dead center and it should come off.


Maybe I didn't make this clear. I have a new part, and I have installed a harmonic balancer that uses a typical puller before.

The balancer that works with a 2 or 3 hole puller has threaded holes in the hub, you screw bolts through the y shaped device and then there are inserts that you push against.

Neither balancer, not the replacement, not the new one, has any threaded holes to screw into. End of story for the standard harmonic balancer puller. The Haynes manual, as I mentioned, did not mention a harmonic balancer puller. I spent more than an hour, and two other people spent multiple hours examining the balancer, and trying to hook different sizes of a 2-3 arm gear puller to the balancer, using the old bolt, partially turned out, to push against. Nothing to grab on to. The back of the hub is rounded, just enough to dump the hooks off of the gear puller.

I was hoping that there would be a center threaded thingie. Or something. Or threaded holes, of course. There is a plate on the front of the balancer with three holes in it, the holes are slightly squared off.

The only thing that anything could grab on to was after the front plate had a hole enlarged, a single hook from the slide hammer (and it had a 2-3 hook arrangement like a gear puller, but we attached only one of them to the slide hammer, all there was room for) was put through that hole and hooked onto the hub.

Now, it is possible that I'm missing something. Of course it is possible. You mentioned special puller but then suggested that all I needed to convert a standard puller to the special puller would be a small socket to hold the rod centered. And 6mm threaded rod pieces.

I will look at the new part again tomorrow, but I really don't see any threaded holes. Are they blind holes? Only accessible from the front?


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

We show one of those in stock at work - I'll have a look at it and ask some of our mechanics about removing it tomorrow.


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## octaneman (May 13, 2009)

Brasshopper 


I fully understood what you wrote I'm trying to ascertain is your engine a VIN N ? 

The buick century has 2 types of balancers. One is the cast number 24503067 which is for the 1993's and the other is cast number 24501985 for the 92's which you need the puller No. J-38197. 

Look at the date of manufacturing is it 92/08 ?


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

Midnight Tech said:


> We show one of those in stock at work - I'll have a look at it and ask some of our mechanics about removing it tomorrow.


Thank you. 3.3 L V 6?


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

octaneman said:


> Brasshopper
> 
> 
> I fully understood what you wrote I'm trying to ascertain is your engine a VIN N ?
> ...


vin is 1g4ag54nxn6458xxx.

I found http://service.gm.com/dealerworld/vincards/pdf/vincard92.pdf for interpretation. Not sure what part of the VIN you need. I masked xxx, of course, the original VIN is numeric in that part. My daughter went out and wrote this down for me, hope she got it right.


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

I believe that octaneman,is correct. On the replacement part there is a 6mm threaded hole that is under each access point. The reason I believed that there was no such hole is that one of the three holes was a blind hole, and it was adjacent to an unthreaded hole. Thhe threaded hole could not be seen. 

Haynes was wrong.

Having gotten the advice that it was a 6mm threaded hole, I was able to fish around until I found the hole. Turns out that the clerk I worked with at the store to buy the 6mm rod pieces had worked with a similar engine that had 6mm holes in the balancer for pulling.

I am of the belief that this will let me pull the balancer. May not get to it for a couple days. Thanks to everyone! I will report on the final result.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

Dumb question - on your new balancer, is one of the holes not threaded?


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

First off, I have not tried this on the old balancer. When you look at the new balancer, there are three access points in the cover plate, about 120 degrees apart. Two have threaded holes that were undersized for anything that came in the puller kit. (And, because of that, I'm guilty of ignoring them.) The third access point, the one I spent time looking at, appeared to have an unthreaded hole. Without three threaded holes at 120 degrees or two threaded holes at 180 degrees, you can't use one of those harmonic balancer pullers on it.

As I entered the hardware store I tried to imagine something that would go into the bottom of the unthreaded hole and lock on to it. I was wasting my time...

Because I was advised (by Octaneman, thanks again) that there were 6mm threaded holes I took the new balancer to the hardware store and I bought a 6mm threaded rod, and then I stuck it in the access hole and felt around.

Adjacent to the unthreaded hole was a 6mm threaded blind hole. Because it was at the bottom of a fairly deep access port in the cover plate, and because it was a blind hole, it was hard to find - until I fished for it with the correctly sized threaded rod. 

So I have three threaded rods sticking out of the new balancer, 120 degrees apart. It should be easy to pull that one, were such needed and if the old balancer has similar holes, I presume it does, I should be able to pull it.

I don't move around as easily as I used to, um, 40 years ago, or even as easily as I used to 10 years ago. My daughter will come back over this weekend and we will give it another try, using the 10mm socket as a spacer and all that.

Now, is there a puller that uses two threaded rods and which locks into the unthreaded hole? Should I be planning for that as an option? Is that how the J-38197 puller works? I don't think so, I just looked at this description (http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...ury-harmonic-balancer-574018.html#post3266973) and it looks like the correct puller has three screws.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

I've got another mechanic I'll ask about this if he comes in - see if he's run into one of these.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

Aha! He told me you'll need a Kent-Moore puller J-38197 and possibly the J-38197-MOD as well to get it off the crank.


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## octaneman (May 13, 2009)

Brasshopper

For engine identification you count the eighth digit from left to right on the VIN number your engine type is VIN N. If you keep counting until the tenth digit it specifies the year which is also an N. By counting alphabetically letter A represents 1980 , B 1981, C 1982...etc Your car is a 1993 not a 92. 

The Kent-Moore J-38197 that midnight posted is sufficient to do the job. 


keep us posted on your progress.


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## octaneman (May 13, 2009)

Addendum: 


Brasshopper, when you are ready to reinstall the new balancer lube the crank shaft with engine oil and what whatever you do, DO NOT LOOSE THE KEYWAY. Make sure the balancer plates align perfectly with the crank sensor or else you risk damaging the sensor and its mount. Spin the engine by hand so that everything runs smooth and don't forget to torque the center bolt to 186 ft lbs in two stages.


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

Thank you for the advice. Is assembly lube (like permatex silver assembly lube) OK or should I definitely use clean engine oil?

I am not 100% sure that the 1992 has a crankshaft position sensor - this is a pre OBD II engine. I know that they used the engine for years, and there are flanges on the back of the part that might mate with a sensor.

I guess to turn the engine by hand the plugs have to come out.

I had planned on using a gob of assembly lube as sort of glue to hold the key in place if the crank was positioned such that the key was on the bottom - but I can just bump the engine around so that the key is on top if that is a bad idea.

The book claims for 1992, 110 fp and then another 100 degrees of movement. I am unsure for 1993, but 180 fp of torque will be easier. 

Just for grins, does anyone know what the book labor on replacing the harmonic balancer would be?

Some local guy claims that it is sop to pull the engine to replace the harmonic balancer. I find that hard to believe for a transverse engine, and countered with the book procedure (which is hard to credit since they claimed that the balancer would come off without a puller) and the comment here that removal of a motor mount to allow the motor to shift slightly for clearance would be the most needed. 

I would have taken a job like that on at one time, I even have a very old engine hoist (from, um, 1988 timeframe). But I can't imagine that is needed for this.

I really appreciate the advice I've gotten here. I was completely stopped, now I feel like I can proceed.


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

octaneman said:


> Brasshopper
> 
> For engine identification you count the eighth digit from left to right on the VIN number your engine type is VIN N. If you keep counting until the tenth digit it specifies the year which is also an N. By counting alphabetically letter A represents 1980 , B 1981, C 1982...etc Your car is a 1993 not a 92.
> 
> ...


The URL I posted before was on the GM site and it says specifically that N is 1992. http://service.gm.com/dealerworld/vincards/pdf/vincard92.pdf - it is a GM web page, would they get that so wrong for so long? Hmmm. Hunch time - bet they skip letters that could be confused with numbers in stamped metal. I linked there from http://service.gm.com/dealerworld/vincards/ and they have a link for every year - yep, they skip I, and I note they skip O as well, so 1993 is P not O. 1988 is J not I. No idea if they skip anything else. But I believe that 1992 is N. Sigh, I would have had the wrong part. Too bad, the 1993 one is lots cheaper, I think. Smaller, etc. If the part is the same through 1996 anyway, someone misheard and tried to give me a 1996 but it was straightened out before we left. 

I will post results this weekend.


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## octaneman (May 13, 2009)

Brasshopper


Your engine does have a crank sensor its a 4 pin with an aluminum bracket.

For the balancer you can use anti-seize compound if you want to its a matter of personal preference.


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

OK, the results:

1. I did not get an "official" puller. I priced them online, the cheapest I could find was at Amazon for $200 plus shipping, drop shipped from the factory, so who knows when I would get it. I used an inexpensive 2-3 hole external puller as suggested by Octaneman. This is a one-off job, and I honestly do not expect to ever do this again. I found that used pullers were selling for $65 on some auction site, (but they didn't have any) and it seemed that I could hire a local mechanic to replace the balancer for less than $135.

2. Ace had threaded 6mm rods that were 3 or 4 inches long. I got three of those, but became scared of using them. If the rods fractured, they would be hard to remove since they were so small. My only hope would be a tiny little left handed twist drill. I went to Home Depot, they had no suitable hardware. Lowes had a number of grade 8 (headstamp 8.8) metric bolts and I got the longest available in 6mm. The length was just right.

They had no suitable cap screws and no suitable stainless hardware. I have been told that stainless specs higher than grade 8 without being brittle - anyone know for sure?

3. The 10mm bolt heads for the 6mm bolts would go right through the slots in the external puller. I thought about various washers, but finally used some 3/8" NC nuts in whatever the unmarked grade is (3?). My feeling was, "softer the better" for this application. Also, I didn't think that they would fold or fracture like washers might. They worked perfectly.

The insert for the tip of the puller didn't fit, as Octaneman suggested, but a 10mm socket, square end in first, worked perfectly.

I put a little oil on the threads of the puller and my daughter set it up until all the bolts were screwed in all the way. We tightened it all up with a ratchet. When the ratchet was unable to move easily any more, (the engine would turn over rather than advancing the puller) I checked again to see if it was straight (it was) and then had her put an electric impact wrench on it. It came off smoothly and more or less easily. It did not become "hand loose" as Haynes had suggested until it was completely separated from the shaft.

My daughter almost cried. This was a major point of tension - being able to get this thing off. We worked on it for two days last weekend, and, as I said, were stuck without the advice we got here. And about an hour after she got here this time, the old part was off with no more false starts - just a plan that worked, beginning to end.

4. The key would not come out - in the end, we used the old key again without removing it. 

I used a little assembly lube on the balancer, and a little liquid wrench lubricating oil (not penetrating oil, they have both) on the shaft. 


5. Tightened it as follows: Used a ratchet until the engine turned over instead of advancing the bolt. Attached an electric impact wrench to the nut and tightened it until the nut did not tighten or advance its movement for 30 seconds. Then turned the engine over to check for interference, first with a wrench and then with the starter, and then installed a new serpentine belt. As I mentioned, I ended up tightening the balancer with the electric impact wrench. It is rated at 200 fp, and we gave it 30 seconds after movement stopped. Problem is that we had no way to hold the crank, so there is no way to apply stationary torque. About 40 seconds before we were done, the assembly lube started to squeeze out.

6. I was impressed at how relatively easy it was to install the serpentine belt as compared to a traditional fan belt. Hold the adjuster with an 18mm socket and breaker bar, slip the belt into place, then it tensions automatically. I've never installed a serpentine belt before, it was just so simple by comparison I had to comment on it.

7. It was not necessary to remove an engine mount. There was just clearance for the deep socket we had that fit the nut and the shortest 1/2" extension we had.

When I looked at the old harmonic balancer after removal I noted that the 6mm removal bolts had been inserted clear to the bottom, you could see the tips of the bolts from the back of the balancer. I think there were no blind holes in the old part like there were in the new one.

Before the removal, the 6mm bolts from Lowes would thread onto the 6mm nuts I bought at Ace. After the removal, they would not. The operation distorted the threads so much that you could not thread them onto a nut. I believe that they were tensioned well beyond their rated strength while the balancer was being removed, and I would want to get more bolts before doing this again. You can't reuse bolts that are stressed like this. Or you shouldn't.

The balancer was in just as bad shape as it seemed. The rubber that normally attaches the inner ring to the outer ring was completely detached. It seemed to be both dry rotted and chewed up by friction. There were gobs of rubber and threads behind the balancer - we cleaned up as much as we could. There is a metal piece that interferes and stops the inner ring from turning completely independently from the outer ring, a smal finger in a big hole, and the clattering my daughter heard was that hitting over and over again as the engine fired, bounced the outer ring a little and then caught it. When the engine is started, it is quiet now.


So I promised to give a final report. This is it. Thanks again to those who gave me advice. I did end up using the 1992 part and it did fit. Backyard mechanicing at its finest, I guess.

A couple years later they replaced the balancer on the 3.3L V-6 with a much smaller one - the 1996 part was much smaller and cheaper. I have no idea why the older engine needs a larger balancer with a large rubber ring. I presume that they made some of the engine parts lighter or put them more in balance so they needed a smaller counterweight. I am also not sure if the new smaller balancer can be removed with the 6mm bolts - one of the pictures of the j-38197 MOD pullers seemed to have non-threaded studs as one of the options. My point is that if you are reading this for advice, be sure that your harmonic balancer has 6mm threaded holes if it is later than 1992. Carry the new part to hardware stores to be sure.

I feel royally screwed by Haynes. The serpentine belt? It took an 18mm socket and breaker bar to move the adjuster. No issue, but the instructions in the book said that it would either have a square hole that I could put the 1/2" breaker bar into or it could be shifted with a 13mm socket. If I depended on the damn book and took a single wrench instead of a set, I would be screwed again. This means that the book is worse than useless - full of misleading advice.

So they cost me a full day last weekend, maybe more, by not mentioning the need for the J-38197 puller, and seem to be no better with other advice. How can I now trust their torque specs, for example?

I'll check in at least once more to see if anyone has any further comments, and again if anyone has any comments or questions. The way I did this job was to give her advice and then let her do the actual wrenching, only checking and not doing. We met late in life (she is a stepdaughter) and just does not know much about this stuff - so I am trying to teach her. It is kind of fun. I'm trying not to make the mistakes I feel my father made.


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## octaneman (May 13, 2009)

This definitely calls for a case of beer. 
Congratulations on a job well done ! :beerchug:


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## dkan33 (Sep 26, 2010)

I have been a GM tech for almost 40 yrs. now . I use a simple steering wheel puller for these balancers , the type with the 3 slots . These are quite cheap to buy and work just fine for this job.


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## Midnight Tech (Dec 31, 2001)

Before you pitch that old one brasshopper, can you post a couple pics of it so folks can see exactly what was causing your grief?


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

I will ask my daughter to send me pics, she has the balancer.

On the Auto Zone store shelf, the balancer I used was labeled as a "Harmonic Balancer and Steering Wheel Puller".

There were no 6mm screws in the kit.

I found my extra screw (the one I got from Lowes) still in the plastic bag. It is a 

Hex Cap Screw Class 8.8 M6-1.00 x 75 

Which makes me think it was 75mm or just over 3" long at 23 mm/inch (6mm in size and 1mm thread pitch). It is only threaded for the first 20mm or so, which also seemed to be the exact amount needed. Again, this unused one will fit a hex nut, but the used ones do not want to anymore, like the threads were stretched. Admittedly this is a Chinese made bolt, but I thought grading could be trusted.


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## brasshopper (May 15, 2011)

Facebook Album of balancer

I think I hate facebook. OK, I can't include an image in any way I can determine, but I can provide a link to a public album.

The rubber was this way when the balancer was first looked at. 

The damage to the cover plate was done to enlarge the holes in the hopes of using a standard claw puller on the balancer, by my daughter's loud and stupid boyfriend. We got it off once we got him to stay home. Things went faster and smoother once we no longer had to argue with him.


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