# Microsoft FSX: "A Fatal Error Occured"



## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

I need some help with an instability of Microsoft FSX.
I read through a few posts here and they did not help to identify the problem.

My son's FSX frequently crashes with the error message "A Fatal Error Occured" followed by an automatic restart of FSX.
It happens with all planes.
It happens even during a flight without changing views.
It happens more often when changing to ATC view.

The machine:
Dual Core Pentium with 3GB memory
nVidia 256MB graphic board
Saitek X52 controller
Windows Vista Home Premium with all SPacs
GData Antivirus and Firewall (I ensured that the virus scan is not running)

When the problem could not be contained
I removed FSX, cleaned the registry, defragged the drive.
Then I did a clean install of FSX, followed by SP1 and SP2.
No other addons
Then I defragged again.

But the problem still occurs.
Any idea where to start?
Is there a log with more crash information?

Help please

Thanks
Joe


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

Welcome to TSF.

Check out this thread first

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f59/important-please-follow-these-steps-before-posting-120411.html

Also, is the game disc-based or downloaded?

If disk based: Check for scratches...
If downloaded: Where from? Torrent? Steam? Link?

Cheers,
Redeye3323


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Thanks Redeye.
I checked this guideline before and realized that there is a pretty new nVidia driver update (196.21), which I just installed. Lets see if that makes a difference. I also started a Defraggle again (2nd time in a week), making sure that the disk is ok.

Other than that all points were followed. 
The SW is installed from the original DVDs, and teh DVDs are scratch free.
The updates (SP1 and SP2) were downloaded from the Microsoft web pages.
The installation was run as administrator.

I have DirectX11 installed. Hope the Dx11 is not causing problems.
DxDiag is not reporting any errors.

I will report back if the system is still crashing.
Does anyone know if there is a log file somewhere in FSX with crash details (dump or so)?


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## Zealex (Nov 30, 2008)

http://flyawaysimulation.com/article3805.html

Read that, also try reinstalling the game using revo. If there are save files, make sure to back them up. What programs are installed on your son's computer? There could be a conflict.


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## Redeye3323 (Sep 20, 2009)

JoeColorado said:


> Thanks Redeye.
> I checked this guideline before and realized that there is a pretty new nVidia driver update (196.21), which I just installed. Lets see if that makes a difference. I also started a Defraggle again (2nd time in a week), making sure that the disk is ok.
> 
> Other than that all points were followed.
> ...


Cheers.

Tell us what happens and also, have a look at what Zealex has said...


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Ok. Here we go again.
All efforts are futile so far.

I followed the directions above.
I uninstalled completely, cleaned the registry, defragged, rebooted, checked that there are no leftovers anywhere from FSX or any add-on.
Then I turned off all antivirus SW and firewall, started the installation again, as admin, followed by adding SP1 and SP2 and the SW activation.

The machine has the latest patches on top of Vista Home Premium, the latest nVidia drivers, DirectX 11 without any errors.

And still.. after a while the simulator behaves erratic. Not often, but often enough to lose data and to crash every now and then.
Junior was telling me that he was parked at the gate, changing only the viewing aspect only, when FSX crashed.
I changed the quality settings to medium in general to see whether this is the problem, but no luck.
Everything else is default setting.

I have no idea where to keep searching.


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

Are you running with the DX10 preview mode set to on?
If so try without that and see if there is a change.


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Pat,
thanks for the suggestion.
I am already running without DX Preview Mode.
That appears not to be the problem.

Latest incident from this morning:
Flying a Cessna, landing at Kai Tak, rolling to the buildings, press escape to go to the menu, then escape again to continue flight.... booom, massive crash
It was apparently eating up a lot of resources.
The disk did not stop running, the task bar did not show up any more.
I had to restart the PC.

Again: Latest GeForce Drivers are installed (GeForce 8500 GT), DX11

One thing strikes me: when starting FSX a balloon message pops up on the bottom saying that the color scheme has been changed to Vista Home Basic. Resolution is by default 1024x768x32. I will try this with other settings now. But any more help is appreciated.

Is there a location (Windows or FSX) where I could find more specifics about the error that caused the crash, such as a dump file?


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

Ok thets work with the basics..

Can you fly a mission "Cessna Sitka" or 'Carribean Landing"?

Are you running online? eg. 
If not with all things possible turned off?
If so what else is running?
If solo have you tried it without any AV runnning? I have never heard of that GD Data AV that you mention.

I'm sorry I tought I included this earlier and didn't include this in my answer.
This could help. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en
It is a DirectX update.

Does the error message give any sort of code?

Not trying to be a pain...
Please list all specs of the computer in as much detail as possible.
Please include temperatures if possible.
The specs more than anything may offer the solution.


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Pat,
thanks for the reply.
I am traveling this week. So it will take a week to do all the tests.
Here some additional data already:

1. Junior is playing single, not online.
2. Everything but the virus scanner and the firewall are off. I cut back on pretty much all services upon startup.
3. The machine is pretty clean. Only very few apps installed. FSX is started after reboot.
4. There is no error code. I have not seen any and I asked Junior to watch exactly what happened. It just says that a fatal error occured and FSX tries to restart. I was hoping that FSX is writing a dump file or an error log somewhere when saying Goodbye unexpectedly.

I asked junior to run these missions. Anything else I need to be at home for.
What strikes me is that the crashes mostly happen under the following three conditions:
- when switching to ATC and see other planes flying
- when parking at the gate
- when Pause and starting after a while

I am not sure if these are the only crash conditions, but these are the ones junior told me.

Let me get back soon if this information does not help further by itself.


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

As stated above, please provide your system specs when you get the chance(little hard when you aren't there!)


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

Also if he is not online then it would be safe to turn off the AV and firewall to free up some additional resources and to also help determine is the issue is coming from one of those..

Do you know if he has added any aircrcaft or scenery, or is this a stock install?


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

I cleaned up the installation completely. Its a clean FSX with SP1/2 and no addons installed... specifically to narrow down the crash issue


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

Check the event viewer to see if there is any error messages concerning FSX in there.

Also here is a link with some more possble help.
http://www.techsupportforum.com/f59/flight-simulator-x-fatal-error-443969.html


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Which anti virus program is on the laptop?


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Mc Ninja, 
Its a Desktop. The AV software is from GData (www.gdata-software.com), which I chose years ago for my computers. It is more sensitive than Symantec and never caused problems with an application to date.
I will try the solution in Pat's post (under http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=267596) when I am back in the US


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## McNinja (Jun 22, 2008)

Ok I was just wondering if it was Norton or McAfee which are very prone to cause computers errors in odd places and constant BSOD's. I've never seen that particualr anti virus program before. I use NOD32 myself.


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

This AV tools is very thorough, tends to be on the sensitive side, using 2 scan engines in parallel.
It can be resource intense. Thats why I watched it carefully but did not find any issues related to GData yet


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Ok. Finally I had a chance to further deep dive into the issue.
Basically I disabled everything of the AV software and the firewall, disconnected the PC from the network, checked after restart that no application is running. I shut down the Kodak EasyShare, the OneNote. Only the system tasks and the GoogleUpdateNotifier were still running.
Then Junior was flying again. And within the second flight the system crashed again. It is repetitively happening when he is switching to watch other air traffic.

Here is the XML dump of the event viewer from this crash:
_Log Name: Application
Source: Application Error
Date: 4/1/2010 10:27:38 AM
Event ID: 1000
Task Category: (100)
Level: Error
Keywords: Classic
User: N/A
Computer: Nasenbaer2
Description:
Faulting application fsx.exe, version 10.0.61472.0, time stamp 0x475e17d3, faulting module unknown, version 0.0.0.0, time stamp 0x00000000, exception code 0xc0000005, fault offset 0x004e0049, process id 0xd3c, application start time 0x01cad1b3faae83e8.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Application Error" />
<EventID Qualifiers="0">1000</EventID>
<Level>2</Level>
<Task>100</Task>
<Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2010-04-01T16:27:38.000Z" />
<EventRecordID>25694</EventRecordID>
<Channel>Application</Channel>
<Computer>Nasenbaer2</Computer>
<Security />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data>fsx.exe</Data>
<Data>10.0.61472.0</Data>
<Data>475e17d3</Data>
<Data>unknown</Data>
<Data>0.0.0.0</Data>
<Data>00000000</Data>
<Data>c0000005</Data>
<Data>004e0049</Data>
<Data>d3c</Data>
<Data>01cad1b3faae83e8</Data>
</EventData>
</Event>_


Here is the complete system configuration:
Model: Gateway GM5626
3 GB RAM
Sound Card: AverMedia M791 PCIe Combo NTSC/ATSC, driver 6.104.0.5
Intel Chipset 82801/945
Keyboard/Mouse: Micro Innovations Wireless Keyboard and Laser Mouse
Saitek X52 Flight Controller, driver 6.0.4.1
OS: WINDOws Vista Home Premium SP2

[Display]
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2180 @ 2.00GHz (2000 MHz)
Operating System:	Windows Vista (TM) Home Premium, 32-bit (Service Pack 2)
DirectX version:	11.0 
GPU processor: GeForce 8500 GT
Driver version: 196.21
CUDA Cores: 16 
Memory interface:	128-bit 
Total available graphics memory:	1534 MB
Dedicated video memory:	256 MB
System video memory:	0 MB
Shared system memory:	1278 MB
Video BIOS version:	60.86.39.00.00
IRQ: 16
Bus: PCI Express x16
[Components]
nvCplUI.exe 2.8.290.13 NVIDIA Control Panel
nvWSS.dll 6.14.11.9621 NVIDIA Workstation Server
nvViTvS.dll 6.14.11.9621 NVIDIA Video Server
nvMoblS.dll 6.14.11.9621 NVIDIA Mobile Server
NVSTVIEW.EXE 7.17.11.9621 NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision
NVSTTEST.EXE 7.17.11.9621 NVIDIA 3D Vision Test Application
NVSTRES.DLL 7.17.11.9621 NVIDIA 3D Vision Module (0)
NVMCTRAY.DLL 8.17.11.9621 NVIDIA Media Center Library
nvDispS.dll 6.14.11.9621 NVIDIA Display Server
NVCPL.DLL 8.17.11.9621 NVIDIA Compatible Windows7 Display driver, Version 196.21 
PhysX 09.09.0203 NVIDIA PhysX
NVCUDA.DLL 8.17.11.9621 NVIDIA CUDA 3.0.1 driver
nvGameS.dll 6.14.11.9621 NVIDIA 3D Settings Server

Please let me know if you need any additional system details.
Thanks for further help to dig into this issue.


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

I went event further now, and deactivated the Micro Innovations mouse/keyboard driver, and still no change. I an still trying to see if the UIAutomation.dll will cause any change 
Will post back


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

If you could please follow the instructions in the link below and post the results.
I realize that it is labled for BSODs but it will also bring a tremendous amount of additional info to the table as well.

http://www.techsupportforum.com/f217/blue-screen-of-death-bsod-posting-instructions-452654.html


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

It looks like the replacement of the UIAutomationCOre.DLL has resolved the stability problem.
Although the error messages did not hint towards this file I replaced is as suggested.
Since then FSX operates stable so far.

Thanks for all your help


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

Good to see the problem is fixed. Hope you enjoy the game!

Also, can you mark this thread as solved by going to the top of the page, clicking Thread Tools and "Mark as Solved"?


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

I will mark it as closed once I can confirm that it works stable.
Junior just experienced more crashes, but I need to track down, whether they are related to recently installed add-on planes or even with the original planes


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

Maybe try it without the add-on planes and see if that changes anything. Maybe a corrupt file. Now the add-on planes, are they all together in one file or in separate ones?


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Well the planes I installed were only in the respective resource directory. A couple of planes share the directory with the original ones (e.g. A321). Others are separate directories (e.g. A380, AN225).
I will ask him to fly only planes with no modifications in the directory. This should be sufficient to track this. Don't you think?


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## Elvenleader3 (Jan 1, 2010)

Worth a shot.


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Long time no update.... for some reasons:

1. I completely rebuilt the computer with Windows 7/64bit
2. After completely clean install I installed FSX again
3. I installed a couple of additional planes, but they are in separate directories in Simobjects\airplanes: (A380, AN225, AN124, Boeing 777). The planes are in dedicated directories. No other directory (specifically the original planes) were modified.
4. Junior started ofcause with the A380 and the 777. And they crashed a few times.
5. I updated the UIautomationcore.dll
6. Junior flew the standard planes (737 and CRJ700) and they crashed as well.

The crashes appear to happen always or mostly when he is toggling to watch the traffic in the ATC window.

Attached are all the diagnostic files as requested in the mail thread referenced above (BSOD, autorun.arn, perfmon) as well as two crash logs.

Hopefully this will help to narrow down the problem.
Thanks


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

According to the windows error console many of the issues seem to revolve around
both the A380.GAU and thd or the uiautomationcore.dll.
Most of the entries include a memory exception error.


Your Saitek drivers are dated 2007 and I believe the most likely cause.
Your network drivers are also dated 2007 though not a probable cause.

With the upgrade to W7 I would suggest getting the newest drivers from Gateway.
The following entry in the error console would suggest that updated system drivers are needed.
Please try to get them from Gateway and not windows update as the windows drivers tend to be more genaric.


```
Event[15]:
  Log Name: System
  Source: Disk
  Date: 2010-05-06T19:05:43.149
  Event ID: 11
  Task: N/A
  Level: Error
  Opcode: N/A
  Keyword: Classic
  User: N/A
  User Name: N/A
  Computer: Nasenbaer
  Description: 
The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk5\DR5.
```


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Thanks for the quick and comprehensive response.
I am not sure I understand how the A380 can cause the crashes when flying a CRJ700 or 737, as happened today the UltraLight.
I have no problem removing the A380. But not sure if that is the problem.

Regarding the drivers I will double check with the Gateway web page. 
But on the Saitek this is the latest driver and software. I was just again on teh Saitek web page and the diver I get for W7 and Vista 64 is always the same, dated from 2007.
Does anyone know if there is an updated driver to be found somewhere else on the Saitek X52?

Thanks


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## pat mcgroin (May 1, 2009)

It is possible for add ons to corrupt the install.
It is a matter of proper code and if the add on doesnt have that it can corrupt.
So lets try to get it to a plain vanilla install so as to eliminate any possible outside influences.
I found these in case they are not the ones that you have found.

http://www.saitekforum.com/index.php
http://www.saitek.com/uk/down/x52pro.htm
http://www.driverfiles.net/Input-De...ontroller/download/page,sh,41047,561,20,.html

Have you installed the 2 service packs since the reinstall?
Also it may not hurt to get this. It is a Direct X upgrade and W7 is in the list
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3&displaylang=en

There is another possible cause but I will need to get in touch with someone else for the info.
Please try these things and if it doesnt help let me know and we can dig further.

Pat


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

well.. it took a while.. and here is what happened in the meantime
1. complete uninstall (with Revo)
2. Pure reinstall of Saitek (latest X52 drivers and SW from Saitek) and FSX (with SP1 and 2)

FSX still crashes occasionally when the camera switches to the ATC, watching other planes starting and landing.
No other plane/app has been installed on top of FSX


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## JoeColorado (Mar 7, 2010)

Still no progress... the simulator crashes even without watching ATC. My son simply changed simulation speed, and it crashed.
Again, all drivers (X52, video, Windows 7) appear to be current.
FSX is installed cleanly, after REVO uninstall defrag and registry clean up.
who can help me stop FSX crashing at my boy's favorite flights?
Thank You
Joe


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