# ububtu 7.04 XP dual-boot - BIOS setup



## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

I have been aided by moderator linderman in getting to the point where:

(a) I have a 2 hard drive system, with a full Windows XP on one drive and an empty drive, on which I intend to install ubuntu 7.04

(b) I have successfuly used Forefox 2.0.0.3 under ubuntu 7.04 desktop to sign-on to this forum.

I am now trying to sort out by BIOS settings to permit booting of my XP system. Then I hope to set up the BIOS to permit selection of either XP or ubuntu.

The link, http://www.techsupportforum.com/f15...i-bios-revision-1006-a-156803.html#post906099

gives a "blow by blow" account of what has happened thus far.

I now need help to understand the BIOS settings and what configuration will give me what is needed.

Advice would be appreciated.

Many thanks.


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## bkubes (May 16, 2007)

You can boot into linux just fine then? Also does it by default boot to Ubuntu?
If so, while in ubuntu, get the menu.lst (.Lst) from /boot/grub/menu.lst and post the section after *## ## End Default Options ##* which should be near the end of the file.


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## bkubes (May 16, 2007)

Also to open the file graphically so you can just copy/paste, open up a console and type
*
gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst*


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

bkubes said:


> Also to open the file graphically so you can just copy/paste, open up a console and type
> *
> gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst*


Thank you BKUBES:

This is my first attempt to do anything in Linux, so my apology if I seem not to understand.

I have booted ubuntu 7.04 from the cd. I have not yet installed ubuntu 7.04 on my hard drive.

I seem to be operating in linux - ubuntu.

i.e. I have an orange screen with the Bar across the top that reads:

"Applications, Places, System, ......"

I selected "Applications" "Accessories" "Terminal" and got a screen that has the following prompt:

[email protected]:~$

I pasted in "gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst"

I pressed [Enter] and
a new screen opened:

This shows what appears to be an empty text file.

Now I am stuck. I can't find any content.

Can you help?

Please give me precise steps to follow, since I do not yet understand.

Many thanks


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

bkubes said:


> You can boot into linux just fine then? Also does it by default boot to Ubuntu?
> If so, while in ubuntu, get the menu.lst (.Lst) from /boot/grub/menu.lst and post the section after *## ## End Default Options ##* which should be near the end of the file.


My reply is: 

I think I can boot into Linux. and by default boot to ubuntu.
I get an orange screen with many options to pick from.

I do not know how to get the menu.lst (.Lst) from /boot/grub/menu.lst and post the section after *## ## End Default Options ##[/B

See my other post on using the GUI.

Hope you can help.*


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

BKUBES:

I think I found what you wanted. Here is the menu.lst file after ## ## End Default Options ## -------

## ## End Default Options ##

title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.4.27-3-386 
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.27-3-386 root=/dev/hdb1 ro 
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.4.27-3-386
savedefault
boot

title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.4.27-3-386 (recovery mode)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.27-3-386 root=/dev/hdb1 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.4.27-3-386
savedefault
boot

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian
# ones.
title Other operating systems:
root


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/hda1
title Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
root (hd0,0)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader	+1


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## PureEvilDan (May 26, 2005)

(This is based of me reading this thread and also the other thread).

_Everything bkubes said is wrong. All your doing is reading the CD's MBR. _

You need to make sure that:

(1) Leave your Windows drive with out power for now.
(2) In bios check if you set the Linux Drive to be booted first, if not we can edit the boot.ini for Win32 later.
(3) Boot in to the LiveCD for Ubuntu
(4) Your going to be installing Ubuntu
(5) To help you along with your install, there is this "unofficial" guide, it looks (and is) very long, so take your time to read it and understand every step.

http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Feisty#General_Notes


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

You won't get a return on the "menu.lst" command until you've actually installed Linux. Running that command from the LiveCD environment is pointless.

What you're doing at this point is taking advantage of the "LiveCD" function. You're taking Linux out for a test drive by running the operating system from the CD and RAM rather than your HDD. LiveCD's are a foreign concept for those of us who only know Windows, so if that seems a bit confusing it's understandable.

Let's get back to installing Linux. Unless something goes wrong, it is pretty simple to install Linux to the second drive, and ask the Linux installer to tweak the Windows MBR so that you have the typical dual-boot setup. The actual mechanics of this are a little different with two drives, but the end result is the same as with one drive. 

There is another way to dual-boot if your BIOS has that feature where you can tap the F8 key (or whichever key your BIOS uses) during startup and you get a choice of which HDD to boot from. I'll call that method the F8 method.

If you want to use the F8 method, then unplug your Windows HDD so that nothing can happen to it by mistake (just data cable if you want, or data and power) and install Linux to the second drive. Let Linux have the entire drive and install it as if it's the only HDD on the computer. In other words, use the "Install Linux to entire drive" choice, the easiest option when going thru the installation procedure. If you have a PC with PATA HDD's instead of SATA, and you haven't got both of them set up as "Cable Select", you may have to screw around with the little jumpers on the back of the 2nd HDD to make it Master for the purpose of installing Linux, then set it back to Slave. That depends on whether the second drive is on the #1 IDE bus as Slave or it's on the #2 IDE bus as Master.

Then hook up the Windows HDD.

Once you've done the above, you'll have two HDD's, both of which are bootable on their own. You start the PC, tap on the F8 key, and tell it to boot from #1 HDD (Windows) or #2 HDD (Linux). 

Some guys do it this way just to make absolutely sure they don't mess up their Windows HDD during the course of trying to install Linux in the more typical dual-boot fashion, where GRUB modifies the Windows MBR and you get the "Which OS do you want to boot?" screen at startup.

EDIT: Once you have Ubuntu up and running, PureEvilDan's link is an excellent starting point for further exploration.


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

I thought of something else but it was too late to edit the above. I've read several times that PATA PC's won't boot from the #2 IDE bus. I don't know if that's absolutely true or not.
But I did want to make sure that was mentioned. If you use the F8 method, and the #2 HDD is presently connected to the #2 IDE bus, you may have to move it to the Slave position on the #1 IDE bus.
If you have SATA, never mind :grin:

EDIT:
I re-read your post and noticed you mentioned something about setting up the BIOS to boot either OS. If you're talking about going into the BIOS and manually setting BIOS to boot from the second HDD, then getting out of BIOS and restarting, that's probly the most tedious way to choose which OS to start. if you're going to be using Ubuntu infrequently I guess it's not a big deal.

Do you know if your BIOS supports the F8 method?


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

Jeepers, mopes -
I oughta read everything that's gone beforehand. Joe already described physically disconnecting the HDD's. Well, I guess it doesn't hurt to hear it again from someone else.

Perhaps it would be best to ask you where you're at with this project. I get the impression that there's some confusion about BIOS settings. 

You asked about "maintaining" your BIOS in the original thread. There's really not much to be done as far as maintaining it. Pop in a fresh CMOS battery every 4 or 5 years (doing so may change the settings back to default so write down any that you've changed) and leave the BIOS alone. 

Unless you think newer versions of the BIOS are going to solve a problem. Flashing the BIOS is not a project to be taken lightly. 

Changing BIOS settings is a whole different deal. It's easy to do once you get the hang of using the right keys. Do you have the original manual? If not I'd go to the ASUS website and see if you can find a copy. Should be a .pdf. That'll explain the basics of each setting in BIOS. If your settings were working for Windows then the Boot Device Priority is probly the only setting you'll need to change, and it sounds like you already know how to do that.

So, your BIOS either has the F8 option or it doesn't. 

If yes, then you can use it to boot either the Windows HDD or the Linux HDD.

If not, then you can still install Linux entirely to the second drive, and use the tedious method of going into BIOS and asking the PC to boot from the other drive, then restarting.

Or just go ahead and install Linux as a dual-boot, dual-drive configuration. Linux tweaks the Windows drive MBR, and when you fire up the PC you'll get a DOS-looking screen asking which OS you want to start up. No BIOS tweaking required.

If you decide to dual-boot then you should back up your personal Windows data and think about how hard it'd be to re-install Windows. The Linux installers are pretty good these days but there are no guarantees.

Here's a good dual boot dual drive thread I saved...
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=275728

A lot of that thread may be confusing to you but it gives several views on the subject.

If you don't have the F8 option you may decide to do it the tedious but safer way for now, then decide to do a more typical dual-boot later as you gain some confidence.


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## thepit56 (May 26, 2006)

ubuntu installs easily with XP, it automatically sets up a GRUB load screen once you install linux and you can then you can switch the boot mode to boot to either windows or linux automatically, otherwise you just use the arrow keys when the boot mode comes up.


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## bkubes (May 16, 2007)

Excuse me. I had thought you had already had Ubuntu installed on the second hard drive and XP on the first.



> ubuntu installs easily with XP, it automatically sets up a GRUB load screen once you install linux and you can then you can switch the boot mode to boot to either windows or linux automatically, otherwise you just use the arrow keys when the boot mode comes up.


While that is true, the standard practice around here seems to be to disable the windows HD while installing linux. Without the windows HD there I doubt it would automatically set it up to boot windows also.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Now I am getting confused. I will have to take some time out to chart my path from here, in the light of the various suggestions.

In the meantime, I have powered off my Windows drive, since I can't access it anyway.

I will continue to operate with the ubuntu livecd, until I decide on my next step. This way I can keep in touch with this forum.

I am, of course, a bit nervous about proceeding down a path "where no man has gone before". http://www.techsupportforum.com/images/smilies/1-normal.gif

I am, nonetheless, appreciative of the messages being sent and I will read all new ones with interest.

Many thanks to one and all.


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## bkubes (May 16, 2007)

The nice thing about the Ubuntu installer is that it's run right within the live CD, so if needed you could just keep firefox open while installing and have us walk you through it.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

I think I am digging the hole deeper.

After reading much material, I opted for an install of ubuntu 7.04 from the CD, and with my Windows drive powered off. (I also powered off an external HDD and a jump stick).

Then I followed the instructions on the CD to install. Of note: I selecete "GUIDED use entire disk", IDE1 master (hda) 80.0 GB (WDC WD900JB-00JJC0)

The machine seemed to format the HDD appropriately.

Then I tried to boot from the HDD. No Luck.

Then I tried to revert to the LiveCD - the boot sequence does some odd things with masters and slaves (that I cant understand).

Eventually, I get the familiar orange/brown screen with the cvarious options.

I chose "SAFE GRAPHICAL INTERFACE".

Then the screen goes black and I end up with a command prompt:

(inittramfs)


STUCK AGAIN.


P.S. to communicate with this forum I have resorted to using another Windows XP machine, which I have close at hand. (Thanks be).

Help would be appreciated.

Many thanks.


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

mopepom said:


> In the meantime, I have powered off my Windows drive, since I can't access it anyway.


How come? What happened to Windows?


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## bkubes (May 16, 2007)

Just a thought, try plugging the ribbon thats in your XP hard drive into the ubuntu one and see if it will boot ( In BIOS it would be the first IDE HD ) .

Edit: Unless I'm an idiot and that already is the case!


> I selecete "GUIDED use entire disk", IDE1 master (hda)


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## thepit56 (May 26, 2006)

EVERY BODY HOLD ON JUST A SECOND!!! If you were just using ubuntu from the cd then booting to windows should have been as easy as taking out the ubuntu cd. if you tried this and it didn't work then you are in some deep s*#t.

since you already took the plunge into linux and your recieving master and slave problems then just reninstall the ribbon cable like bkubes said (which I reccomend) or swithc the ubuntu drive to primary drive.

and to tell you the truth I don't see why you would disconnect the windows drive in the first place, I am linuxlly challenged in that I can't even install an app unless it's spelled out for me, but even I could install ubuntu with little help, just *make sure that your second drive is set to auto or on in the bios menu*


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## bkubes (May 16, 2007)

I'm under the impression that his Windows drive isn't even connected


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

thepit56 said:


> EVERY BODY HOLD ON JUST A SECOND!!!
> 
> and to tell you the truth I don't see why you would disconnect the windows drive in the first place, I am linuxlly challenged in that I can't even install an app unless it's spelled out for me, but even I could install ubuntu with little help, just make sure that your second drive is set to auto or on in the bios menu


Pit, I gotta agree with you on the first part, at least until we hear from the OP with an update.

As to the second part, installing Linux to a 2nd drive with the Windows drive disconnected is a valid option. I'm glad that the typical dual-boot process worked for you (did for me too), but too many folks have had trouble. Disconnecting the Windows drive means there's no chance of wiping it out.

To the OP: it's infrequent that the LiveCD works but the install doesn't. But apparently it's not unheard of. :sigh: 
I want to hear about your Windows HDD before going further, and why you said it's inaccessible.
I'm wondering if you're losing track of where the jumpers are on the HDD's. Before going any further, make sure you know which IDE bus is #1. It's identified on the motherboard. There should be a tiny #1 or "Pri" or some sort of identifier silk-screened onto the motherboard right next to the plug. Google it and you'll find guides with pictures. Here's one
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/confControllers-c.html

Make sure you understand which clip on the IDE ribbon cable is master and which is slave (the one on the end should be master). Take a close look at the little jumper on the back of the HDD, look closely at the little tiny map on the HDD that identifies where the jumper is supposed to be for master, slave, cable select and single. Write down where they are now.
You've got to keep track of all this or things are going to get worse before they get better.

If you're not familiar with any of these things, I'd remove the Windows HDD entirely and practice connecting the Linux HDD as primary master. Start the PC. Go into BIOS and see if the HDD is identified in BIOS. If it's not you probly have the jumper wrong or the HDD isn't on the master clip. Install Linux to the HDD. See if it works OK. That will give you a little bit of confidence to try setting up the Windows HDD as master on the #1 IDE bus, and the Linux HDD as slave on the #1 IDE bus.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Bartender said:


> How come? What happened to Windows?


In my earlier work with BIOS and in clearing a HDD in anticipation of ubuntu feisty, I lost the capacity to boot into Windows.

"To try to bring some order to this thread, I am now responding to each post separately. Sorry if this causes repetition"


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

Well, OK, can you tell us what happened to the Windows HDD? What do you think happened, what sort of error message do you get, if you go into BIOS and enter the Main option does BIOS see the Windows HDD? It should identify the drive and give it some sort of nickname, like ST1200ATA or something similar.

If you went inside the PC, did you pull on any cables? A PC quit on me the other day after messing around inside. I'd bumped the IDE ribbon cable and pulled it partways off the HDD. 

Better start writing down everything you're doing.

I'm guessing that right now you just want to get back to at least having one functional HDD. Let's try to figure out what happened to Windows.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

bkubes said:


> Just a thought, try plugging the ribbon thats in your XP hard drive into the ubuntu one and see if it will boot ( In BIOS it would be the first IDE HD ) .
> 
> Edit: Unless I'm an idiot and that already is the case!


I have elected not to meddle with the cabling to the drives, any further, since I don't know what I am disconnecting or connecting.

After a good night's sleep, I am going at the problem methodically.

Now I have reconnected the HDD to the power source.

I have reset my BIOS to the factory settings.

I have inserted the LiveCD for ubuntu 7.o4 in my CD reader.

I rebooted.

Immediately I got a sensible orange/brown screen, which called for my userid and a password.

I supplied both of these and entered what appeared to be the GUI for ubuntu 7.o4 from my "installed" ubuntu.

I changed the screen resolution to a larger font.

I opened the Firefox browser.

I logged into this forum and sent replies to this thread.

"To try to bring some order to this thread, I am now responding to each post separately. Sorry if this causes repetition"


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Someone said; EVERY BODY HOLD ON JUST A SECOND!!! 

Sorry for not being able to respond properly to everyone's post, so far.

I now seem to have a ubuntu 7.04 installed and operating from a dedicated HDD.

I hope I have a second HDD (powered on) with all of my Windows stuff.

*I think I now need some coaching on how to set up my BIOS using ubuntu so that I can dual boot, either from the ubuntu HDD or the Windows drive.
*

Four questions are asked:

1) Is there a utility or facility in ubuntu that I can use for this purpose?

2) Is ther a stand-alone utility that I can use to inspect the HDD environment and to understand what is located where? I am thinking of Gparted and SystemrescueCD, both of which I have previously booted and got working, to some degree. I have the CDs live disks for these.

3) Do I have to go back to first principles and get instructions from ASUS on how to set up my BIOS parameters?

4) Can any one point me to a step-by-step solution that I should follow from this point on to arrive at a dual-boot ubuntu/ XP sustem, with a high likelihood of success?

Straightforward answers to any of these four questions would be appreciated.

Please recognize that the finer points of ubuntu and bios set-up will likely not be easily understood by me, since I have never done this before.

Many thanks, for your patience and willingness to help.


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

mopepom said:


> I hope I have a second HDD (powered on) with all of my Windows stuff.
> 
> *I think I now need some coaching on how to set up my BIOS using ubuntu so that I can dual boot, either from the ubuntu HDD or the Windows drive.
> *
> ...


Answer to #1: You're going to have problems here until you spend some time learning more about your BIOS and how it relates to the rest of the PC. Think of it this way. Your PC is dumber than a bag of hammers when you push the "on" button in the morning. It looks to the settings stored in BIOS to tell it what parts it's running, where they are, and where to go looking for an operating system to boot up. That's why you can go into BIOS and set the PC to boot from CD, then restart the PC and use the LiveCD. The LiveCD can substitute as an operating system installed to your HDD. Once your PC has moved past the BIOS and found an operating system to run, you can't go back to the BIOS and make changes. BIOS changes have to be made in BIOS, before an operating system is booted. So, no, there isn't anything in Ubuntu that will let you change BIOS.

#2 Yes. I like GPLCD, which we've talked about in sluggo's thread. Check out the link I gave him in post #61 of his thread for an idea how to move around in GPLCD. I spent a coupla hours trying to figure out how to do things in GPLCD. Thought I was gonna freak out at first, but it was just a case of re-orientation.

#3 Yes. Learn how your BIOS works. It's the foundation under your operating system. You'll gain from the time spent. You'll also find that 95% of the settings are best left at default, so it's not as bad as you might think.

#4 aysiu has spent a lot of time building his guides, and there's no way I could come close to the amount of detail he's provided. If you flip back thru the last coupla weeks of threads on TSF you'll find other links.
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installing

aysiu's directions are geared toward letting Ubuntu do all the thinking with a dual-boot install. GRUB tweaks the Windows MBR.

As we've already discussed, there's a different way to install using two HDD's - each drive gets its own operating system, and each operating system is completely installed to its own drive. You choose which one to boot with the F8 key as the PC is starting. If your BIOS has the F8 key option!

Since this has been discussed a thousand times, you should google "dual boot Ubuntu xp" and read several of them. I just did that. There are even videos!


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Thank you Mr Bartender for your thoughtful and succint answers.

I will use these as my guide for the next line of investigation.

I will now sign-on to this forum and thread from my laptop computer which is going to remain a Windows XP machine until I know what I am doing. ray: ray: 

With luck the next post from me (mopepom) will come, soon, by this means.

Thus, my desktop ubuntu machine will be the one where I try to get familiar with the asus BIOS (P4S533-MX ACPI BIOS Revision 1006), through any actual changes to the BIOS setup.

In this regard, I propose to visit the ASUS webpage ( using my Windows laptop) to chase down the documentation, and to study that carefully. Does this sound appropriate?

In the meantime, give me a cocktail of common-sense, patience and courage and wish me luck, Mr Bartender!


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

To Mr Bartender:

This post is coming from mopepom on my Windows XP laptop.

I will now pursue BIOS info at the ASUS webpage.

While I will try to respond to posts to this thread from others, I plan to use Bartender's answers to my four questions as the framework for my effort over the next day or two (ie Sunday, May 20 and Monday, MaY 21).

Now to find out more about my BIOS.....


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

For the record, I have dowloaded the user manual (PDF file) for my desktop's motherboard: ASUS P4S533-MX

This is available on my laptop.


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

Hiya -
Here's the ASUSTEK webpage with the manuals for your PC. The fourth one down looks like the right one - well, it's English, anyway.
http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P4S533-MX&type=map&mapindex=7

Download the .pdf. You'll probly find it's at least 40 or 50 pages, so you may just want to print out the relevant parts about BIOS settings and save the rest to a folder on your laptop HDD for future reference.

I've gotta think about this for a minute - you already know how to change the boot device priority, right? 
There aren't many other things I can think of that you'll need to know. The first subgroup in the BIOS will be "Main" or something similar. I'm at work on a PC that can't read .pdf's. Otherwise I'd download the manual and tell you which pages.
You'll want to be able to go in to the "Main" tab and see that your HDD/HDD's are recognized. If you start physically removing HDD's and moving the little jumpers on the back of the drives and plugging them in to various clips on your IDE ribbon cables, you will want to go into BIOS and make sure they're recognized. For instance, if you're sure you have two HDD's on the primary IDE ribbon cable (and they're both plugged in and spinning) and BIOS only sees one primary IDE device and none on the secondary, that's a good indication that you misconfigured the jumpers. So it's good to get familiar with that main page where the BIOS id's your IDE devices.
That's about the only thing I can think of right now. You shouldn't have to change anything to get your dual-boot working. 

Check into the manual, and see if you can find any reference to the F8 key (or possibly some other F-key) being utilized during startup to choose which HDD to boot. If the BIOS supports that, then you know that's an option for you. If it doesn't, then we're probly back to dual-booting in the "traditional" method.

Here are some links that might help you. This first one has some nice pictures that illustrate some of this master/slave/jumper stuff we've been talking about.
http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/2622/how-to_dual-boot_ubuntu
EDIT: Last I knew, they dropped the 'disks" function in System>Administration, so don't panic if that doesn't show up in 7.04

Here's a recent one from Ubuntu threads
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=439641&highlight=dual+boot+drives

If you do decide to just plug both drives in and let Ubuntu figure it out, make absolutely sure that you understand Linux drive terminology. The master HDD will be hda and the slave drive will be hdb. We don't want to write Linux to the wrong one!

Something else - is your Windows HDD still out to lunch? Can you reinstall, or do you have important personal data on it? I don't want to get you off the task at hand, but you can retrieve personal data off an unbootable Windows HDD by looking at that drive from within Linux. I hope you get the windows drive working, but if not that's something to ask about...

Also, that "innitframs" error you reported way back when...did that go away? I'm under the impression you have a working Ubuntu install right now


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

a) Now I will shut down my desktop and boot.

b) I will enter the BIOS setup program for P4S533-MX and exercise the options, as described in the user manual (p.40: BIOS setup).

First I will record the existing boot sequence (should be the setup values, stored in the BIOS)

I will attempt to set up the BIOS to follow the following boot sequence:

1. CD
2. IDE with Linux ubuntu 7.04 installed.
3. floppy disk.
4. network. (I will not attempt to exercise this option, at this point)

c) The next post will be a status report on this exercise.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Bartender:

This is kinda neat.

My last post (from my laptop) crossed with your last post - which I just read on my desktop.

I am communicating via my laptop now.

I will take my time to work my way through your various comments and questions, before I boot the desktop.

It is getting very late here (1:45 a.m), and I am getting tired.

Discretion suggests that I DO NOT FIDDLE WITH THE JUMPERS - NOW or EVER.

I am reasonably confident that, with your help, I can work my way back to having a Windows XP booting again on my desktop.

BTW, I do, in fact have ubuntu 7.04 working just fine on the desktop. I have even modified my Firefox to create an operation environment, with which I feel comfortable.

Also, BTW, if you wish, it might make sense to use some private msgs via this forum. I am easy, either way.

It may well be that I won't sign on again until Sunday Noon, EDT, because of other commitments.

I will keep the laptop open on this thread, just in case.

Regards and thanks again.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Bartender:

I did a Google Earth on Chehalis, WA.

My wife and spent a couple of weeks on vacation due North of you in February - in Victoria, BC.

:normal: 

Over and Out for at least 8 hours.


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

mopepom said:


> Discretion suggests that I DO NOT FIDDLE WITH THE JUMPERS - NOW or EVER.


What could go wrong? :wink: 

I've dinked with those little jumpers several times. It was a little nerve-wracking the first time I screwed up and the PC wouldn't boot, but I just went back to square one and figured out my mistake. It's kinda fun now to pull HDD's out, swap them around, try different setups... 

All you need for hours of entertainment is a few Linux distros and a handful of old HDD's :grin:

EDIT: Victoria in February? A little cold and gray, was it?


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Compared to our winter here in rural Ontario (-20 C to -30 C) Victoria was a balmy +8C to +14C. :normal: 

Forgive me if I don't take seriously your suggestion about fiddling with jumpers for hours of entertainment. :normal: 

Already, my work area is a jungle of computers, wires, printers, monitors, satellite cables, telephones and paper, paper, paper. All of this occupied by a guy with a reputation for clarity and calm control.  

I don't need to add to the confusion with another non-functioning computer.

One day, about a month ago, one of my wife's "outdoor" kittens found my door open and had a great time chasing its tail through the maze of wiring under my desk. :grin: You can imagine the hours of entertainment I had putting order back into that kitty caused chaos. My language would make even a bartender squirm. :grin:


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

OK - back at it.

Bartender said:

"Check into the manual, and see if you can find any reference to the F8 key (or possibly some other F-key) being utilized during startup to choose which HDD to boot. If the BIOS supports that, then you know that's an option for you. If it doesn't, then we're probly back to dual-booting in the "traditional" method."

I checked the manual for every instance of the word "boot" and didn't find an F key as a means of selecting the boot HDD. However the Boot Sequence menu does appear to offer the choice of which HDD to boot from. I take it that is what we are looking for.

I will make this assumption and read Bartender's comments in that light.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Bartender said:

"
http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/26...al-boot_ubuntu
EDIT: Last I knew, they dropped the 'disks" function in System>Administration, so don't panic if that doesn't show up in 7.04"

You nare right 7.04 doesn't have exactly this. However, System - Preferences - Hardware Information shows:

2 SCSI devices with IDs WDC WDB00JB-00JJ & WDC WD800BB-00CA

I think these are my two IDEs.

From my hand-written notes, the first one, WDB00JB-00JJ was the drive used by ubuntu 7.04 setup and is identifiable in Linux as IDE1 master (hda)

By inference the other disk is my Windows drive, although I have no direct evidence about this, now. I just hope, I didn't wipe it out in my earlier manipulations.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Bartender said:

"Here's a recent one from Ubuntu threads
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...al+boot+drives"

I looked at this and was not encouraged - it looks like the same problem that I have. I will stop that particular line of enquiry.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Bartender:

Should I investigate aysiu's guides?


Should I investigate GPLCD?

I won't do anything further until I get some feedback.

I propose to take the afternoon off and celebrate Queen Victoria's birthday by getting my garden ready for some lush tomatoes.

That's what we do in this lasty vestige of the empire. :laugh:


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

mopepom said:


> I checked the manual for every instance of the word "boot" and didn't find an F key as a means of selecting the boot HDD. However the Boot Sequence menu does appear to offer the choice of which HDD to boot from. I take it that is what we are looking for.
> 
> I will make this assumption and read Bartender's comments in that light.


Nope, not the same thing. The ability to intercept the PC's boot process "on the fly" with the F8 key (I don't know if some PC's do it with other keys, but F8's the only one I remember reading about) is a feature that's built in to some BIOS'es. By "on the fly", I mean you start up the PC and start tapping on the F8 key. The PC gets the message that you want to say something about which drive to boot from, so it pauses its boot process and goes, "What do you want now?"

Not in those words exactly :grin:

You tell it, "Boot from the Primary slave drive, not the Primary master drive", and it continues on with booting up but takes the detour that you suggested.

The Boot Sequence menu inside of BIOS is not the same deal. You have to go into BIOS, change that setting, save the setting, get out of BIOS, and the PC has to start the boot process all over again. Some people dual-boot that way, but it seems awfully tedious to me.

Tell you what. Why don't you just try it? Start the PC up and tap on the F8 key as it's going thru the boot process. That's what I did with a PC that I thought might have the feature. If your BIOS recognizes F8 it'll stop and you'll get some sort of DOS-looking screen that'll give you a list of bootable devices. Nothing bad will happen if the function isn't there. The PC will just ignore you.

Don't get this F8 mixed up with the Windows F8 Safe Mode function. If you wait to get past the BIOS functions, then start tapping on F8, Windows will get the message that you want to interject and stop to say "What do you want?"

Well, not in those words. It'll go into Safe Mode.

I just wanted to make that clear. We're talking two completely different results, both attained with the F8 key. The only difference is the 20 seconds or so between the PC reading BIOS data, and the PC starting to load Windows. F8 will interrupt Windows and put you in Safe Mode, but not until the PC is past booting thru BIOS and beginning to load the Windows operating system. 

If you don't have the F8 function in BIOS, then yeah, you should take a look at aysiu's guides to dual-booting, but also google "dual boot two drives linux" and search within forums such as TSF, Ubuntu, PCLOS, MEPIS, etc. You'll find thousands of threads asking about dual boot, but you want the ones that specifically discuss dual boot with two HDD's.

The Linux installer is fully capable of handling what you want to do, but as mentioned earlier I feel that you should learn Linux drive terminology to make sure you understand what's going on, and soak up whatever other wisdom you can find in some threads that relate to dual boot/dual drive issues. Sometimes it helps to hear the same thing explained by a few different people.

I don't know why your PATA drives are being recognized as SCSI but as long as they're being recognized I'd probly give it a go.


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

You said your Ubuntu HDD is working fine all by itself, right? What that means is Ubuntu is installed entirely to that disk. 

There's nothing wrong with that, but I want to make sure you understand that for the "typical" Windows/Linux dual-boot, a small part of the Linux bootloader is installed to the Windows master boot record (MBR), the tiny strip of data at the very front of the bootable Windows HDD. So even if your Windows HDD was working, and you put everything together correctly, you would not get the GRUB window that would give you the choice of operating systems. You would start your PC and get either Windows or Linux, depending on which one was primary and/or set up in BIOS to boot.

So, to reiterate, if you have both HDD's sitting on the bench, and you can plug either one in individually and the PC will start the OS on that HDD, then you'd be ready to go if the F8 key function exists in your BIOS.

But you would not be good to go for the "typical" dual boot.

You could repair GRUB, but I've never done that. I think the simplest thing to do would be to re-install Linux to the second drive with both drives installed and spinning, then go thru the steps to install Linux to hdb and GRUB to the hda MBR. Oh, and GRUB doesn't label the drives the same as Linux does. 

But first you have to get the Windows drive working. :grin: 

Gotta go back to work


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

On Restart, the desktop machine will give a menu, in response to the key <Esc>.

The options are:
1. HDD -00JJC0
2. HDD -00CAA1
3. CD
4. Floppy
5. SCSI Device 

Now to set up my BIOS


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

I am now back on the desktop, under ubuntu 7.04.

I checked out the boot menu choices. Choices 1, 3 & 4 work to get me into linux as follows:

1. HDD -00JJC0 ........ leads to ubuntu 7.04 (where I am now)
3. CD ......... leads to GParted-LiveCD
4. Floppy ------- leads to a small Linux standalone utility that looks at my BIOS

Here is what is read by this utility:

Program: eSupport.com BIOS Detect v1.2 July 21, 2003

BIOS Date: 06/11/03

BIOS Type: Award Modular BIOS v6.0

BIOS ID: 06/11/2003-SiS651/SIS962/IT8705F-P4S533MX

OEM Sign-On: ASUS P4S533-MX ACPI BIOS Revision 1006

Chipset: SiS 651 rev 2

Superio: ITE 8705/SiS 950 rev 2 found at port 2Eh

Superio: Winbond 877AF (use 87h) rev 0 found at port 3F0h

Superio: Winbond 877AF (use 86h) rev 0 found at port 3F0h

CPU Type: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4

CPU Speed: 2667 Mhz

CPU Max: 3200 Mhz

BIOS ROM In Socket: Yes

BIOS ROM Size: 256K

Memory Installed: 768 MB

Memory Maximum: 1024 MB



eSupport.com, Inc.

1-800-800-BIOS (2467)

www.esupport.com

----

Boot Menu Choice #2 does not load an OS. The machine stops with an error indication.

This corresponds to HDD 00CAA1, which should have my entire Windows stuff on it.

(BTW, I have access to most of this, since I saved it prior to this exercise on an external HD. It is of course in Windows format.)

Looking at the HDDs using GParted, I am beginning to think that I overwrote my Windows, earlier in the exercise. There is not indicaion of what might be on there - just 80+ GB of something.

Are we getting closer?

......

Well it is late again, so I will call it quits for another 8 hours.

I look forward to comments - particularly from Bartender.

Gute Nacht.


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## Bartender (Jun 10, 2005)

hey, mopemom, I'm no Linux expert, that's for sure, but we are in the area that I'm most comfortable with.
But it looks like everyone else has deserted us, so I'll do my best 

So, you found your "F8" key, but it's not F8. It's the "Esc" key. That's the neat thing about this stuff, is I usually pick something up too. It sounds like that'll work just fine if that's the way you want to do it. You understand what I mean, right? Using the Esc key to pick which HDD you want to boot is a perfgectly acceptable way to do it, but when I refer to the "typical" dual-boot it's done so that GRUB tweaks the MBR and you get a choice. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Regarding your Windows HDD, my guess would be that your MBR mighta gotten overwritten. It's relatively easy to fix the MBR if you have a genuine Windows CD. I have to make this quick, so googling "repair mbr" will bring up lots of stuff. Kelly's Corner, Elder Geek, etc. all have guides.

Talk to you later.


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## mopepom (May 16, 2007)

Hi Bartender:

Just to thank you for bringing me this far. This thread has gone quiet, so I have opened a new one to move the process along to the next result - a dual booting ubuntu - windows system using 2 hard drives.

See you over on the other thread?

Bye.


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