# System Not Using All RAM That I Just Installed



## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay. Just purchased 4 brand new 1gb sticks for my HP Pavilion a1120n. 

Pavilion a1120n Memory Specifications
Standard Memory	512 MB = 256 MB (removable) + 256 MB (removable)
Maximum Memory	4.0 GB
Memory Expansion	4 sockets
Memory Comments	PC2-3200 DDR2 SDRAM DIMMs. Supports Dual Channel DDR2.
CPU Type	3.06GHz Intel Pentium 4 519
Model Comments	533MHz FSB, Intel 915GV Chipset.

Using this diagram I figured the max was 4gb and that's what I wanted to do. Get the max amount of RAM in the PC for performance. 

It's reading only 2.87gb of the 4.00gb though. Is this because I'm running Windows 32 bit? Or because of my graphics card? Or both? 

Well if so what can I do about this? Am I able to install a 64 bit version of Windows 7 or would that show under system type of I was able to? So what are my options here? My PC performance rating is low according to Windows 7. I've purchased this RAM, want my PC to run as good as it can, so Can I upgrade something to run a 64 bit OS that runs my ram? What can I do here?


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## gcavan (Aug 13, 2009)

> It's reading only 2.87gb of the 4.00gb though. Is this because I'm running Windows 32 bit? Or because of my graphics card? Or both?


Both in fact.

A 32 bit operating system has a maximum address space of a little more than 4GB. After you subtract from this the space used by all the system devices (including video memory) you get something around 3GB left over. This is the maximum system memory the 32bit OS can address.

There are applications available online which proclaim to allow a 32 bit OS to use all 4GB but in actual fact they only allow the OS to recognize that the memory is there, not to actually address it and use it.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks for the response. Okay, so it sounds like I know what's going on and the 32 bit plus the nvidia gforce card is what the hold up is. So I know what's going on here. 

So the question is what options do I have? Windows already acknowledges 4gb ram installed as you can see from the pic. I want to use this ram I just purchased and for my PC to run at best performance it can. 

So what can I do? Can I upgrade to a 64 bit Windows 7 system with what I current have? Maybe another 64 bit os if not? Or hardware upgrade? What options do I have here? 

P.S. Happy Saint Patrick's Day! :grin:


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Your cpu is not 64 bit capable so you are stuck with 32 bit. I also notice from your attatched pic that your video driver is not installed.


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## LMiller7 (Jun 21, 2010)

Unfortunately, there really isn't much you can do, and what you can do is unlikely to make much difference.

A 32 bit client OS such as Windows 7 has a maximum physical address space of 4 GB. However, a substantial portion of that (roughly .75 GB more or less depending on your hardware) is needed for memory mapped hardware, leaving about 3.25 GB available to Windows. There is nothing you can do to increase that. In addition, any system memory used by your video system will further reduce that value. You may be able to reduce the memory shared by the video system but that is unlikely to make much difference.

A 64 bit OS would be able (in most cases) to access all 4 GB RAM, minus whatever is needed by the video system. That is because these systems have a much larger address space that can easily accommodate 4 GB RAM plus that needed for memory mapped hardware. Unfortunately, your hardware is not compatible with a 64 bit OS.

An Internet search for such an issue will likely turn up the use of the PAE boot option. But that does nothing useful with a client OS. It's purpose is to allow access to RAM above the 4 GB mark, but the kernel in 32 bit client versions of Windows will ignore all memory above 4 GB so the option essentially does nothing.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Amd_Man said:


> Your cpu is not 64 bit capable so you are stuck with 32 bit. I also notice from your attatched pic that your video driver is not installed.


How do you see that? The pen and touch thing?... If the drivers for the video card weren't installed they would show as a yellow exclamation point under device manager right?



LMiller7 said:


> Unfortunately, there really isn't much you can do, and what you can do is unlikely to make much difference.
> 
> A 32 bit client OS such as Windows 7 has a maximum physical address space of 4 GB. However, a substantial portion of that (roughly .75 GB more or less depending on your hardware) is needed for memory mapped hardware, leaving about 3.25 GB available to Windows. There is nothing you can do to increase that. In addition, any system memory used by your video system will further reduce that value. You may be able to reduce the memory shared by the video system but that is unlikely to make much difference.
> 
> ...


So why is hardware upgrade not an option? CPU is what enables or disables the possibility of 64 bit os right? So I couldn't install a different CPU on this mobo to get access to all 4gb of RAM that I just purchased?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Your CPU is 64Bit capable. Going to a 64Bit OS will let you "see" the 4GB (minus what is used by the Onboard graphcis) but that will not show a notable difference in performance.
Very few games/apps can utilize over 3GB.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Is COU just a typo for computer or is that an acronym for something? So my PC CAN run Windows 7 64 bit. That's good if so. How can you tell my PC can run 64 bit? 

I'm not using onboard for graphics. The graphics is a 256mb nvidia gforce card.

So if I upgrade to 64 bit the 4gb (minus the 256mb from graphics) will be being use and not just show the 4gb installed like it is now correct? Right now i SEE 4gb installed, but being used is the little under 3gb. I don't want to SEE it, I want the max amount being used. I don't see how having more RAM running won't show any improvement. 

Next step would be upgrading to 64 bit. Do I need a different Windows 7 boot disc from the one I currently have or are they all 32 64 bit capable?


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## LMiller7 (Jun 21, 2010)

A 64 bit OS will usually make most of the 4 GB memory available, always excepting that needed by a video system. But a 64 bit OS has higher memory requirements than the 32 bit version and this will largely offset the added memory available. Also be aware that a 64 bit OS is subject to the same issues as a 32 bit, only that there is usually a solution. This requires that the motherboard and BIOS support memory mapping to move the conflicting RAM to a point above the 4 GB mark where there is no conflict. Support for this is by no means universal, particularly on older systems.

You also have to consider driver and software compatibility. The situation is better than it once was but still needs to be considered. Many people have rushed to install a 64 bit OS, only to discover that a favorite hardware device or important application is not compatible.

Also be aware that there is no upgrade path from a 32 bit to 64 bit OS so a clean install of the OS and reinstallation of all applications would be required.

Installing a 64 bit OS simply to access more RAM is usually not worth the effort. I am not saying that you shouldn't do this, just that you should do your research first and understand the implications.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay. You've gone a bit over my head with support mapping and conflicting RAM and having support for this on older models?... 

So you are saying the extra memory will be useable with a 64 bit system but in a sense the 64 bit os will require more RAM useage and that difference is the same as running the 32 bit system and taking my hit for 1.25gb that it's not using with the 32 bit system?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

COU, (supposed to be CPU) in Post #7, was a typo and it has been corrected.
You will need to buy a retail Windows 7 64 Bit disc. 
Basically, the $100 for the 64Bit will get you the other 1.13GB of RAM that will probably go unused.


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## LMiller7 (Jun 21, 2010)

I am saying that a 64 bit OS will be usually be able to see more RAM but needs more for it's internal uses so you probably will not gain much. Also the ability to access most of the 4 GB RAM depends on your hardware and is not universal. You could end up with no gain at all.

Edit: Adding more RAM will usually improve performance. But there is always a point of diminishing returns beyond which there is very little improvement. That point depends heavily on the applications you run. In most cases with 3 GB accessible you are at or near that point already.

Bottom line is that installing a 64 bit OS just to access more of the 4 GB RAM is usually not worth the considerable effort.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay. I believe I might go threw with the Windows 7 64 bit install. Not immediately since I don't believe I have one (though I might because I do have a pile that I collect from people) but is there anything specific I need to know about before going threw with it or will it be the same as doing a fresh Windows 7 32 bit install?

Also, I don't think it was addressed how we know this PC can run a 64 bit OS. Can someone enlighten me as to how you go about checking that?


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

I can tell by the quality of your screenshot. Windows 7 will install a Standard VGA Driver when it can't find what graphics adapter is being used. I've attached a screenshot to show you the difference.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Your CPU is not a 64 bit processor so you can't install Windows 7 64 bit.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Ah, that explains why you think that. No, the graphics driver IS installed on this PC. The quality looks poor because this is a screen shot I took from my PC controlling that one with teamviewer. See, that's my Dad's PC, but I live in a different state.  

Okay, I'm getting mixed information now so I'm a bit confused. I've heard I can, and can't do 64 bit on this PC. How do I verify whether my CPU can or cannot?


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Ahh that explains it then! Download and run this: CPUID - System & hardware benchmark, monitoring, reporting and it will tell you what CPU your running.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

shewillnotdie said:


> Okay, I'm getting mixed information now so I'm a bit confused. I've heard I can, and can't do 64 bit on this PC. How do I verify whether my CPU can or cannot?


According to the manufacturer, the 3.06GHz Intel Pentium 4 519 is capable of running a 64Bit OS: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 519K (1M Cache, 3.06 GHz, 533 MHz FSB)
Under "Essentials" it says *Instruction Set 64-bit*
Look at the bottom of the page under "Advanced Technologies" Intel 64 is marked as "Yes".


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## LMiller7 (Jun 21, 2010)

Before installing any version of Windows 7 on a computer you should run the Windows 7 Upgrade advisor:
Download: Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor - Microsoft Download Center - Download Details

This will warn you about most hardware or software incompatibilities before you proceed.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Very helpful. Okay, so it appears my CPU can run 64 bit. I'll definitely run that program before going threw with it. Does that program have an option to check 32 bit or 64 bit?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Yes, according to the CPU manufacture it is 64Bit capable. Most all CPU's made in the last several yrs. are 64Bit capable.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

I was going by this link so that's why I thought it was not 64 bit ready. Sorry for the confusion.

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor supporting HT Technology 3.06 GHz, 512K Cache, 533 MHz FSB


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I see. Well going by the specs I see online HP Pavilion a1120n Desktop PC Product Specifications - HP Customer Care (United States - English) the one that says 64 bit Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 519K (1M Cache, 3.06 GHz, 533 MHz FSB) seems to be the correct CPU for this model. However this model isn't from the last few years. My Dad definitely bought this sucker I'd say almost 10 years ago? 

Maybe it would be in my best interest to run that program mentioned earlier in this thread (CPUID) and double check the specs on the CPU before going any further. I'll catch him on teamviewer when he's home from work later tonight and I'll verify the CPU so we can figure this out 100%.

Now as I look at this CPUID program I notice it has A LOT of information. I can probably match it up w/ the info on the links already provided but in case I get lost what information do I need to provide in here to verify that we're looking at the correct specs for the CPU when I match them up w/ the two links?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

We dled CPUID and the linked CPU specs appear to match the CPUID so we're going to do the 64 bit upgrade. He hasn't snagged a disc yet but I believe he'll get one either today or tomorrow so I'll let you guys know how the update goes.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

I'd run the upgrade advisor that was linked earlier. Your may or may not be supported!


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

shewillnotdie said:


> We dled CPUID and the linked CPU specs appear to match the CPUID so we're going to do the 64 bit upgrade. He hasn't snagged a disc yet but I believe he'll get one either today or tomorrow so I'll let you guys know how the update goes.


You should be good. Drivers for Windows 7 (32 & 64Bit) are available from the manufacturer for the PC in question.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay guys. Still need some help. 

I managed to walk him threw the install and the 64 bit Windows 7 was successfully installed and running smooth. However, it's still only using 2.80gb or so of RAM out of the 4gb. Even says 64 bit now under system. What gives?

We are done working on it for the night because my Dad had some stuff to do but we'll work on it again tomorrow. From researching the net a bit I see you have to have a RAM Mapping or something or other configured in bios? Well I can't teamview that and told my Dad he needs to look threw bios but he said he didn't see anything to that effect. 

Uhm, I saw a thread online that said that, and some DOS CMD to run which I can't find in my history anymore. Besides that I'm stumped. The OS was installed successfully, running 64 bit, got all the drivers, so great, but still only 2.80gb of the 4.00gb.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Any idea why it's still showing 2.80gb of 4.00gb after installing 64 bit windows 7 anyone?... I'm stumped.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Check the Bios updates for your Mobo and see if there is one that relates to RAM recognition.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Have him run Resource Monitor, hit the Start Button type/paste Resource Monitor in the search box, when it appears on the list over top of the search box click on it to open.

Give us a screen shot of the memory tab.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

According to my research the newest BIOS update I could find for HP pavilion a1120n is 2006 3.28 which is what the PC has. 

I also see hardware reserved in that RAM tab. I'm thinking the bios needs to be set correctly. That's not something I can go threw myself with teamviewer and I would have to direct my Dad where to go to set that. Any idea where I can find a detailed guide as to where to go to set that correctly for his device?

Also I noticed above someone mentioned drivers for windows 7 64 bit are available for this PC. Where exactly? When I go to HP support and put windows 7 64 bit for OS it just gives me some dumb disc drive lite driver or something. Nothing else.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Check the Video memory size on the advanced tab> BIOS Setup Utility Information and Menu Options HP Pavilion a1120n Desktop PC - HP Customer Care (United States - English)

You have version 6 or less when looking at that web page.
Does it have the original video setup or a add in card?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I don't have access to bios atm since I'm just teamviewer connected but I can tell you we have a graphics card plugged in. Here is a screen shot of the details of the graphics card we purchased and installed less than a year ago. I believe that card is either 128mb or 256mb which I don't believe would contribute to the over 1.00gb he's missing from the 4.00gb. 

Also, I am going to look threw your link to see if there is a memory remapping enable and when my Dad gets home later tonight maybe we can see if that's disabled and that's the problem. I told him to just give me remote access while he's gone so we can further troubleshoot until I can get into bios later tonight.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

I don't believe the card will use that much either, the Integrated will top out at 128 shared I believe, and that is probably the only setting for memory allocation in the bios.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay so I'm at a complete lose. 

I've been researching this forever. 

Here are a few things I found while researching. msconfig > boot > advance options uncheck number of processors and maximum memory. Already done. They are both unchecked and weren't checked to begin with. 

Bios, enable memory remapping. After just looking over the link you sent me there is no option for memory remapping on this PC's bios. 

What next?...


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Hardware reserved is held by the bios in reserve not windows, OEM motherboard/bios do not have the full options a retail motherboard/bios would have.

Is this the same PC the capture card is in?
If it is try removing the card.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

No, no, no. Totally different PC. (which btw thx for the help w/ that PC too) The PC with the capture card in it is a PC I'm helping out with locally here in MI. This is my Dad's PC. He's owned it since it was store bought and I know everything that's gone into it. There are no surprise devices on this PC. Standard HP Pavilion a1120n. PSU has been upgraded beyond the poor proprietary PSU, installed that graphics card just recently, and now the RAM upgrade. 

So if you had an OEM mobo and not retail then I would assume memory remapping wouldn't need to be manually enabled then? 

Where do we go from here? On a side note the fresh reformat and Windows 7 x64 is running very nice on the PC.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Not sure I think you'll have to browse through the bios looking for a reserved ram setting But I have a feeling HP never thought about running a 64bit os on it


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## A1tecice (Jun 1, 2010)

Yup as stated Above 32-bit OS's are limited to around 3.25GB of RAM minus your shared memory for your on-board graphics will get you to the amount of ram you currently have.

It is worth noting that if you feel up to it you CAN get a 32bit os to take more RAM as the lines of code for it exists in both 32 and 64 bit OS's (Only in 32bit its disabled). through enabling PAE (Physical Address Extension)

Access more memory, even on a 32-bit system

Thanks,
Altie


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The OP installed Win7 64bit, the issue is the bios reserving 1 gig more the the video uses.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

A1tecice said:


> Yup as stated Above 32-bit OS's are limited to around 3.25GB of RAM minus your shared memory for your on-board graphics will get you to the amount of ram you currently have.
> 
> It is worth noting that if you feel up to it you CAN get a 32bit os to take more RAM as the lines of code for it exists in both 32 and 64 bit OS's (Only in 32bit its disabled). through enabling PAE (Physical Address Extension)
> 
> ...


That all looks interesting and I certainly haven't tried that yet but does it even relate to me in my situation? We're running a 64 bit OS not 32 bit... 



wrench97 said:


> The OP installed Win7 64bit, the issue is the bios reserving 1 gig more the the video uses.


Exactly! I mean if we were a tad under 4.00gb because of the 128mb from the video card we'd be happy with that! But 2.80gb is a bit ridiculous considering we have 4x 1gb sticks, a 64 bit os, and the graphics card only eats a max 128mb.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Have you tried running 1 or 2 stick at a time in each slot to see if the value is reported accurately?


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## A1tecice (Jun 1, 2010)

My apologies I never saw you say you installed a 64bit OS.

If you haven't already Run msconfig, go to Boot -> Advanced Options, just make sure 'Maximum Memory' is not ticked. and i take it your BIOS sees all your RAM then?


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Tyree said:


> Have you tried running 1 or 2 stick at a time in each slot to see if the value is reported accurately?


I don't think I've had him try that yet. Should I have him individually insert individuals, see if it reads, shut down, remove power, run next, check, etc. He knows the drill cause I had him do that when he first got the RAM. 



A1tecice said:


> My apologies I never saw you say you installed a 64bit OS.
> 
> If you haven't already Run msconfig, go to Boot -> Advanced Options, just make sure 'Maximum Memory' is not ticked. and i take it your BIOS sees all your RAM then?


I appreciate the extra help. I mentioned earlier that I did already check the max memory tick and it wasn't ticked and yeah I think the screen shot that I posted from resource management with like allocated by hardware, used, unused, etc showed it's reading all 4.00gb.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm on the phone with my Dad right now. he did cycle the RAM and went threw them one at a time. here's how it worked. 

Plugged in one - 1gb (1gb usable)
Plugged in 2 - 2gb (2gb usable) 
Plugged in 3rd - 3gb (2.80gb usable)
Plugged in 4th - 4gb (2.80 usable) 

My Dad also brought up a good question that I'm curious about myself. If the video card is using up 128mb of this ram why does it show FULL ram usage and no video card eating the ram when we have 1 and 2 installed?...

Also, of course, any other input on what steps I need to check next because I'm still lost.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

We're just grasping at straws here and looking around stuff on the PC. We just pulled this from everest. 

Why does it show two video adapters for the one NVIDIA GeForce card????? I know we previously have a vga splitter in there for dual monitors and no longer have dual monitors however he still has the splitter plugged in. I'm having him remove it now and we're going to continue messing around. 

Thoughts?

I just had him remove the VGA splitter and it's still showing two like the screen shot.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

The Nvidia 8400 card is what's called a dual ramdac card meaning it has 2 distinct video outputs, that's why it shows up twice.
The Intel of course is integrated into the motherboard.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

But it's not using double the RAM is it?...


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

No the 8400 will have it own dedicated ram on the card, not dedicated system ram.

I think the limitation is in the bios code itself, HP looking at only using XP 32 bit on that model may have limited the usable ram to avoid and 32 bit ram limit.

Might be worth a Email to HP support to see if there is a applicable bios update that's not publicly listed(you'd be surprised what have under wraps).


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm assuming I can just find an email from HP's website? I'll check it out tomorrow or tonight when I get the spare moment.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Contact HP / Customer Service | HP


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay. I held off for a few days waiting for my Dad to send me his serial and product number to email HP only to find out all they want to do is check your warranty. 

So can I get your opinion on what category to select here? Under email they have:

Question before buying <--Obviously not the case 
Tech support after buying <--I select this one but all they do is force you to put in serial and product and check your warranty and there is no opt to email them after that
report a software security issue <-- well this doesn't relate at all
other questions/feedback <--- I tried this one but none of these sub categories even closely relate a non published bios update

Disability/Accessibility resources
Diversity and work/life programs
Environmental information
Financing options
Investor relations
Jobs at HP
Privacy
Report a software security issue
Send a message to the CEO

Think I should maybe just try calling? It's too late to call tonight but I can't seem to find any area to email them that relates to this issue... I certainly don't think my device being under warranty matters for such an inquiry.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

It didn't use to matter, but any more it's hard to tell. Try the online chat option see if you get anywhere there.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

*sigh* When I go to chat it's the same thing. They ask for the product and then serial and product number and immediately check for warranty. It's like they want to do anything they can NOT to be bothered by you... 

I can't seem to get around any of their ridiculous selections to even contact them.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Looks like they are getting worse then ever.


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## shewillnotdie (Mar 2, 2009)

Ridiculous. I hate poor customer service. Seriously. So am I boned here?... Is there anything we haven't tried?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Not that I know of.


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