# [SOLVED] Toy Or Trouble?



## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I have been given an older computer. I want to get it up and running. It's an Acer Aspire M1641. OS is Vista Home Premium. I disconnected all cables from my good computer and connected them to the Acer. All I get is a black screen telling me it is in Power Saving Mode and to move the mouse or hit any key on the keyboard or the power button. I get no response from any of these options. I can't get into safe mode or setup. Since I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse and all cables are fine, what should my next step be?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Do you hear/see any signs of life when you push the power button, i.e. lights fans?


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Yes. Everything seems fully operational.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

I should have added in my question that the previous owner put this computer in a repair shop. They were told there were problems with startup and the mainboard. They thought the repair estimate way too high and bought themselves a new computer, instead.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Probable video card though it could be psu as well even thought you have sounds and light. If it is video card that would cause a shop to say mainboard but if there is a slot you could try a pci-x video card or pci video card. Are you sure there isn't one and you are plugging video up top when there is a separate video card down below in tower?
I see it has a pci-x video slot and if not in use as suggested above, you can try a video card.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Correction. I don't have sound, though I can hear a faint hum from the woofer. I can put a cd in the optical drive and close the drawer. I'm assuming it would play the cd if it weren't locked in Power Saving Mode.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

I know nothing about the hardware of a computer, so these may be a ridiculous questions. Assuming the information that's keeping the computer in Power Saving Mode is in the hard drive:

Could I put the hard drive in my good computer?

Would my good computer recognize it? (They're both SATA drives running Vista Home Premium).

Could I then go into the Acer hard drive while it's in my good computer and change the power saving settings?

Or, when I switched from the native hard drive to the Acer drive in the good computer, would I still see the screen telling me it is is power saving mode?

Crazy idea? I don't know.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*



> Could I put the hard drive in my good computer?


Yes you can.



> Would my good computer recognize it? (They're both SATA drives running Vista Home Premium).


As long as the drive is good, yes.


> Could I then go into the Acer hard drive while it's in my good computer and change the power saving settings?


No the Power Saving Settings would be of your computer


> Or, when I switched from the native hard drive to the Acer drive in the good computer, would I still see the screen telling me it is is power saving mode?


No your computer with its Windows regulates power saving for the whole system.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Thank you for that important information. Before I try anything in this area, I've discovered something else. When I opened the computer, I discovered the repairman had not reconnected the hard drive cables. Where can I get a wiring diagram for this? I want to be sure all hookups are correct.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

I am not being funny, but you can't really do it wrong, the cables won't fit.
Installing SATA hard drives - PCWiki


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

I have six loose cable terminals and can't find sockets that will accept any of them but one. It is a flat black cable with black ends. One end is connected to the mainboard in an orange socket. The other end will fit into a socket on the hard drive. It's just like one from the mainboard to the optical drive.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Here is the one connection I have made. I don't dare turn on power until I know it's correct.

I hate to take a course at the local tech institute just for this one computer.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

You have the data cable for the hard drive, now you need the black power plug in next to it. Its the flat black one not the rectangular one with 4 ports in it.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

I have two plugs as you describe. One is labeled P9. The other is labeled P7. I hooked up the P7 to the HD. The P9 would not reach, anyway. Am I ready to turn on power?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Go for it!


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Thanks! I will keep you informed.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

OK, Rich

I had a long page typed of all I've tried and a lot of questions to ask you. Maybe I won't have to bore you with that.

I ended up putting the Acer HD in my Dell. Then, I reinstalled the OS on the Acer HD. Before I did, I always got an error saying Windows couldn't start and to start Windows Startup Repair. Windows Startup Repair said it could not fix the problem. Funny thing, I could run Unbuntu on the Acer HD while it was in my Dell.

More to the point, after I reinstalled the OS, the Acer HD works beautifully while connected to my Dell. No more Startup errors. The sad part is, when I put the HD back into the Acer, I still get the Power Save Mode display and cannot get out of it.

I'm guessing the command that keeps the computer in Power Save Mode is somewhere in the Bios or mainboard. Is this true? Is there anything I can do about changing it? Taking RAM out and putting it back didn't help. Neither did removing the battery for an hour. 

Are there things I can check for on the mainboard. Anything I can try? Or is it time for a technician with sophisticated diagnostic equipment to take a look?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

I would imagine removing the cmos battery should reset the bios but not always. There may be a "cmos jumper" on the board that would do it for sure and if you look carefully you will see it near the chipset. You move the jumper to the other pins attempt to start system and then put it back and try again. If that doesn't do it I would say the motherboard is shot.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Let's see if I did this right. I don't know what a chipset looks like and couldn't find a picture on the internet (all I saw was whole mainboards). I found a picture of a cmos jumper. It sits beside the cmos battery.There are 3 pins and the jumper sits on pins 2&3. I switched the jumper to pins 1&2. Restarted. Then put the jumper back in pins 2&3. Did I do it right?

Anyway, it didn't work. Unless you can think of something else to try, I'll attempt to replace the mainboard or have it done by a pro. Should I mark this thread Solved?


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Yes you did just fine and yes it is time to get the board replaced if that is what you want to do with it.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

I've read that If I use a third party board, I'll have problems with Vista OEM.
Any chances of finding the same board. I would buy one from Acer but can't find that they sell them. Their nearest service center is 2000 miles from me.

I want to thank you for all your help and walking me through these procedures. I've learned a lot in the past two days

Thanks, Again.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

Yes that would be true if you change the board you must get another Windows license as with oem the license is tied to the board, though if you get close and call for activation, Microsoft may wave you on if you explain exact board is not available. They have been known to do that.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: Toy Or Trouble?*

I will check with several repair shops to see if any has a good board the same as the original. For now, I'm keeping the Acer HD connected to my Dell. I'm customizing it and updating it with SP1&2 and all updates.

This is my first time to switch cables, swap HDs, etc. I have learned a lot. It makes me want to learn more. I couldn't have done it without your help.

Thanks, Rich!


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Here Ya go, its exact match and eBay is about the only place you can do that now as this is old:
Acer Aspire M5640 M3640 M1640 M1641 Desktop Motherboard MB.SAK09.007 (7655) | eBay
Glad to help...


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I checked eBay. All I saw was one that was refurbished by the seller. The one you found is refurbished by the manufacturer and has a 30 day return policy. I'll go for it.

As they say here in the South: *You done good*.

Thanks a lot, Rich.

Doug


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

That's why we are here...good luck!


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

The mainboard has been ordered. It's on it's way. I'll attempt to install it, myself.
I may have a hundred questions for you in a new thread.

Take care.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Why not just keep this one open...and come back here with progress.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Will do.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Hey, Rich

Checking back in. My mainboard could be here as early as Friday. In the meantime, I'm reading as much as I can about removing and replacing a mainboard.

Since the repairman didn't even replace the HD cables, I'm concerned about some other things. In the picture, I have highlighted in orange, 5 slots that will accommodate components, but they are empty. Are any of these missing components necessary for the normal functioning of the computer?

I read this:
Before you pull your old motherboard, make sure that there's a good reason. Unless you can see burnt components and bubbled varnish, don't assume the motherboard is the issue.

I see no burnt components or bubbled varnish. The board looks clean with no apparent damage. Realizing there could be damage that's not visible, I'd like your thoughts on this and the 5 empty slots.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

It is rather hard to see what you highlighted but it looks like you are referring to older Ide slots which are wide flat cables for older hard drives and dvd drives which you are not utilizing is my guess. If you have a narrow cable from dvd and hard drive plugging into the orange ports on the board that is all you need.
Bad boards don't always have visible issues, in fact that is too easy and they seldom show that. Its just if you see swollen or oozing capacitors the chore becomes easier because then the board has to be bad.
The other circles could be extra front usb ports and/or front audio port cables.
Just go slow and find a way to make a diagram for every thing you remove and you will be fine. One important thing though. The board stands off the case by use of either brass standoffs or raised ridges that have been desensitized so as not to short the board. If the holes in the new board are not in exactly the same places, you may need to get a few brass standoffs to use to make sure the board is totally off of the case.




likekinds said:


> Hey, Rich
> 
> Checking back in. My mainboard could be here as early as Friday. In the meantime, I'm reading as much as I can about removing and replacing a mainboard.
> 
> ...


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I keep reviewing the thread hoping to learn more. I didn't understand entry three, but I didn't ask for clarification since we went on to motherboards.

Arrow one points to what I assume is the network card since it has a jack for the Internet cable. It's the only card I see in the computer.

Arrow two points to a blue connector(?) which has a jack for the monitor cable.

In my Dell, the blue connector has a large card connected to it. I assume it to be the graphics card. There's no such card here and no room for one to be attached to the blue connector. Do you see a graphics card in the picture? 

I have searched hard for a service manual for this computer. All I find are user manuals.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

#1 looks like a dialup modem is a guess but it could be an ethernet card I suppose. And the Blue one looks to be onboard video card.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

The picture is quite large. Maybe you didn't blow it up. Arrow #2 points to a 
one and a half in. blue cube with the name *Kortak* on it. Kortak is a company which manufacturers or sells connectors.

I've included a picture of the graphics card in my Dell. As you can see, there is a similar, but smaller, blue cube mounted to the card. The cube has a jack that accepts the monitor cable.

The blue cube in the Acer is not mounted to a graphics card.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Right that is a pci-x video card and it is self contained. With an onboard video card, the card is built into the motherboard so you won't see it as you do with a pci-x video card.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

It's a relief to know that....and more reason to suspect there is a faulty MB. I guess anyone wanting to upgrade their graphics card on this model computer is out of luck.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

likekinds said:


> It's a relief to know that....and more reason to suspect there is a faulty MB. I guess anyone wanting to upgrade their graphics card on this model computer is out of luck.


Actually not as that board appears to have a pci-x 16 slot so you couold add a pci-x video card at a later date.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

My replacement MB came today. I installed it in the Acer. I still get the Power Save Mode screen on the monitor. I switched the jumper position and then back. That didn't help. The only difference I can tell is that the fan seems to run faster and maybe a little louder. I hope if it turns out not to be a faulty MB, the company will honor a refund.

The MB did not ship with a CPU. So, of course, I put the one that was in the old MB in the replacement board. Could that be the problem? I have no idea what to do or what to look for next.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Yes unfortunately it could be the cpu. Are you certain you got all the cables back in
the right place and the jumpers such as power, reset etc. It could be the cpu but that would be a little unusual.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

So far as I know, all the cables are in the right place. There was one cable in question and I referred to pictures I had taken for that one.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

The one usually missed by most is the 4 prong plug from the Psu which is the "12V rail" actually. Also is the board exactly the same so that no new brass standoffs were needed to keep board from the case which would short it out. The fact that the hsf fan is spinning and nothing else is happening could mean cpu is bad, but it could also mean the motherboard too. I would purchase a cheap cpu on eBay to try in it.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I have more information but I wont give it here, yet.

The 4 prong plug you mentioned was not plugged in. In every picture I took, this plug was hidden by the fan. It is plugged in now and the monitor is working properly. Also the fan is now working at proper speed and is very quiet. Here are some readings I saw:

Current CPU Temperature 102f
Current System Temperature 107f
CPU fan speed 960 rpm 

Windows will still not come up. I checked the boot sequence. It is set to the HD. The only thing I know of that is not plugged in yet is the network card. Is boot up dependent on the network card?

The error I get while the boot is in progress is: 
PXE-E61 Media Test Failure. Check cable.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

While researching, I found this: 

"Also, you cannot use a Windows XP hard drive from a different PC without formatting it and installing XP again. The copyright protection makes it fail to boot up, as you've found out!"

Would the fact that I reinstalled Vista in the Acer HD while it was plugged into my Dell have an effect on the Acer not booting properly?


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Hard Disk Priority
1st Drive SATA: 3M-WDC32001

With this on the screen, I click Enter. I get something I don't think was there before: This Drive Is Disabled


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Yup I thought it might be that plug and yes you cannot expect to boot up from an OS installed on another system on this one. You need to clean install Windows.
"PXE-E61 Media Test Failure" means it is trying to boot from the network which of course it cannot do. That probably means the hard drive is dead or disabled as you read. If it can be seen and it is the 2nd boot device and the cd drive is the first, why not try to install Windows to the drive as it may just be the OS on there is all corrupted.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

OK. I'll get started on the re installation and get back with you.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I used a Vista Upgrade Anytime disk to reinstall Windows on the Acer HD while it was connected to my Dell. As I told you, everything went beautifully. I was not asked anything about drivers.

Now, that I have put the Acer HD back into the Acer and try to reinstall Windows again. I get this message and cannot continue:

Load Driver
No device drivers were found.
Make sure that the installation media contains the correct drivers, and then click OK.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

You can't use an Upgrade Anytime because that needs an OS to begin with and my guess is since that is what is on the drive you can't upgrade it because you already did. You can't use it from scratch either because it requires a version of Windows to be upgraded. Usually an Anytime upgrade is for Home Basic to Home Premium i.e.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, I'm lost. The Acer HD had Vista Home Premium on it when I connected it to my Dell and reinstalled Vista Home Premium. That was how I was able to solve the Start Up problem. As a matter of fact when I had the Acer HD connected to the Dell, I got a notice asking me to validate the Windows installation.

I am getting the former owner to see if she can find the OS disk that was shipped with the computer. I'm not hopeful. What can I do next?


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Correction:

Well, I'm lost. The Acer HD had Vista Home Premium on it when I connected it to my Dell and reinstalled Vista Home Premium with a Windows Anytime Upgrade disk that came with my computer.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

If you can get a Dell Windows Vista dvd of the same version (i.e. Home Premium, Business etc), you can install Windows with that and use the code from the sticker on the Acer tower. You can also contact Acer and buy restore disks, they aren't that much money, usually $20 or so.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I have the Vista Home Premium OS disk that came with my Dell. I will use it. I had thought about that before, but I was afraid the OS would then be assigned to the Acer and I wouldn't be able to use it on my Dell anymore. I had forgotten about entering the code (Product Key, right?) from the Acer Tower.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I tried to install Vista OS in the Acer HD, using my Vista Home Premium OS Disk and while the HD was connected to the Acer. I get a notice saying drivers cannot be found. They are not in any of the options I'm given. I cannot go any further til this is resolved


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I need the exact message and exactly at what point it occurred as drivers are not an issue during an install. Drivers use are to make hardware perform and until you have Windows installed, I can't imagine what or why anything would be asking for.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Ok. I will get that information for you.

...and there's nothing wrong with the Acer HD. I put it back in the Dell, temporarily. I'm using it, now,


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Can you go into the bios and set the boot order to dvd drive 1st and hard drive 2nd and disable everything else, then try the dvd to install Vista again?


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

When the Install Now window comes up, I click the Install Now arrow. The next screen that comes up has a notice that says 'A required CD/DVD drive device is missing. If you have a driver floppy disk, CD, DVD, or USB flash drive. please insert it now.

Note: If the Windows installation media is in the CD/DVD drive, you can safely remove it for this step.


=======

Behind this notice is a page with options as to where I can look for this driver.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Just saw your last reply. I did put CD first and HD second. I didn't disable the others. Among the choices I have for looking for this driver are (X which is about 38 mb and removable C,D,E, and F.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Sounds like either the dvd drive isn't plugged in or its defective. Do you have the sata cable and a power cable plugged into the dvd drive? And is it plugged into a sata port like the hard drive is?


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I don't understand. How could the computer read the installation disk and load files if the DVD drive wasn't plugged in? One end of the SATA cable is connected to the back of the optical drive. The other end is plugged into the SATA port.

Wait. There are four wires that seem to junction at the back of the optical drive. Four go to the power supply and for go to a black rectangular plug like the one I plug into the HD. From there. the four wires end in a small white plug with four holes and four slots. I don't know where to plug in these wires.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

These wires are short and can't go very far.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Can these wires be for a second optical drive?


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Can it be that the black plug goes to another optical drive and the white plug goes to a set of pins next to the power plug on the board? I have more pins than holes here, but it seems to fit fine. There's no where else to put it.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Can this be right?


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

You might be able to tell more with this schematic. I have highlighted the pins where the wires from the optical drive might go. I wont turn anything on til I hear from you.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

An optical drive should have a sata cable which is narrow and thin from sata port to the dvd drive. Then there needs to be 1 electrical cable plugged into it which would look the same as the one plugged into the hard drive, but there is no other plug. Though if you didn't have at least an electrical plug into the drive, it would not open so more sounds like the dvd drive is no good. Drive opening and closing is a different function from reading anything on the disk.
The picture and diagram have me totally lost I'm afraid...I have no clue what you are talking about on either.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

There is a sata cable from the sata port to the dvd drive. It is labeled DT SATA-2 Signal.

OK, Here is what I have. From left to right. 

first plug fits into the dvd drive

second plug - I don't know unless it's for a second dvd drive

third plug (white) will fit the pins highlighted in the schematic (whether they actually belong there or not.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Only one goes into the dvd drive the rest are in case you have other drives.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes. That's what I said, a second drive. So where does the white plug go?

Just for reference, my Dell has three wires for the optical drive. One plugs into the drive, which can't be seen here. The lower plug in the picture is the sata cable. The upper cable runs off the optical drive as well. I don't know what lt's for, but it seems to correspond to the white plug in the last picture, both in size and it's placement near the power plug on the mb.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

I see on the Dell what appears to be 2 sets of sata ports. Make sure on the Acer that you have the hard drive plugged into the regular ports and not the Raid ports if it has any. The only way you would know that is in the manual for the motherboard which should be available online.
The white plug not in use on the Acer is for a floppy disk drive which probably isn't onboard and doesn't matter anyway. Older systems had a sound cable that went from the dvd drive to sound card port on the motherboard or in a pci soundcard and have not been necessary to use for years, and that surely is the third cable you see.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

The only other possibility why the hard drive doesn't work but is recognized would be a setting in the bios as to how the hard drives are used and the choice should be "ide" and not "raid" if the board even has that choice.
At this point I would try another working dvd drive in the Acer and if that doesn't then install Windows then the board or the cpu is bad and you might be better off now finding a shop to test those to speed up this process.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, for what it's worth, with different systems and all,I put the Acer hd in the Dell and tested it. I got a Floppy Disk seek failure, but it went on to test the hd and it passed.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Hard drive testing software is seldom right but its worth doing. Since you were able to install Windows to that drive in the Dell, I assume the drive is ok anyway its the dvd drive I think isn't which is why I asked you to try another. But as I said if the another dvd drive does the same thing then we are back to testing the cpu and the board as they are the only things left and that you will need to find a shop for.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I guess I will have to have the board and CPU tested. I tried a working optical drive from the Dell in the Acer. I got the same request for driver. The same thing happened when I put the OS on a thumb drive and tried an install from there. i really don't know what the system is looking for. It is reading from the optical drive without any problems and I read somewhere else on this forum that there are no drivers for the CD/DVD drive.

Thanks for all your help.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Welcome and it's not that there are no drivers for cd dvd rom, its that drivers are native to Windows for optical drives and have been for a long time now.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

The good news is here.

I have the Acer up and running. There was nothing wrong with the physical optical drive, wiring connections, CPU, and possibly nothing wrong with the motherboard (I'll determine that later. Maybe I can get my $80.00 back). 

I solved a Startup problem by reinstalling the OS while the HD was connected to another computer. 

When trying to reinstall the OS (while the HD was in the Acer, so the installation would be tied to it's motherboard) I kept getting this error:

A required CD/DVD drive device is missing.

(What MS failed to make clear, was that this device is actually a driver)


I went to Support.Acer. com and downloaded SATA AHCI Driver.
I put this driver on a thumb drive. The next time I tried to install the OS, I got the same error, but this time, I had a place to direct the search for that driver. I directed the search to the thumb drive. The driver was found and accepted. The installation continued to completion.

The previous owner was told there was a problem with Startup and the motherboard. She was given a $100.00 estimate for repairs and warned that that was just for starters. If indeed there is nothing wrong with the old motherboard and I can get a refund for the replacement board I bought, I will have repaired the computer for $0.00

I want to personally thank Rich-M, who has put an awful lot of time and effort into this project. Without his help and guidance, I would never have ventured into the bowels of this computer and learned all I have in this grueling past three days.

Thanks, Rich!


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

A note of caution.

Windows had a built in HD diagnostic. I tried it on my Dell HD before trying it on the Acer HD. Now, I can hear the stylus arm on the Dell HD clicking all the time. Before the test, it was completely silent. Hope I don't have to buy a new HD soon.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

likekinds said:


> A note of caution.
> 
> Windows had a built in HD diagnostic. I tried it on my Dell HD before trying it on the Acer HD. Now, I can hear the stylus arm on the Dell HD clicking all the time. Before the test, it was completely silent. Hope I don't have to buy a new HD soon.


Replace the drive, that is what we call "the click of death" and the drive won't last long.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

We used to encounter this all the time on older boards in Windows XP but I never heard of it with Vista...great find!




likekinds said:


> The good news is here.
> 
> I have the Acer up and running. There was nothing wrong with the physical optical drive, wiring connections, CPU, and possibly nothing wrong with the motherboard (I'll determine that later. Maybe I can get my $80.00 back).
> 
> ...


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks. I have two full backups on XHDs. I'll just use it til it dies.


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## Rich-M (May 2, 2007)

Ms didn't cause, that, it had to be coincidental.


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## likekinds (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm sure you're right.


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