# New mid tower case question



## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

My wife's PC bit the dust the other day. When the power switch is pressed the PC begins to start but powers down in a few seconds without ever getting to POST. Sometimes it will cycle through this without even pressing the power switch. I tried replacing the power supply with a new EVGA Supernova 850 T2 but that would not even do anything, it was totally dead. Perhaps a bad unit but I don't know. Anyway, I ordered and new MB and CPU but I am also wondering if the power switch on the Cooler Master case may be bad. That switch is not available anymore so a new case may be in order which brings me to my question. Just about all the cases I have looked at have great cooling but no place to install a CD/DVD drive. Is there a decent mid tower case that supports a front panel installation of a drive?


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

Note the front panel power switch is simply a remote switch that momentarily shorts two pins on the motherboard. This signals the board to signal the power supply to start up. 

You can follow the two wires from the back of that switch to the two pins to determine which two pins are used. Then you can remove the two wire from those two pins and carefully short the two pins with a small flat-tip screwdriver. That effectively is the exact same thing as pressing the front panel power button. If it boots fine with the screwdriver but not the switch, the switch is bad. If that case has a reset button, you can move the two wires from the reset button to the two motherboard pins used by the power button, then just use the Reset button from now on. 

Good to see a fellow luddite here. I too like my cases to support optical drives. Fortunately, there are still many cases that do. My next case will likely be the Fractal Design Define 7 - which, behind the front door, still supports a 5.25" drive. We've done many builds with FD case, and they are my preferred case make. Excellent designs, excellent build quality, excellent noise suppression, and they typically come with quality and very quiet case fans too.


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

Bill_Bright said:


> Note the front panel power switch is simply a remote switch that momentarily shorts two pins on the motherboard. This signals the board to signal the power supply to start up.
> 
> You can follow the two wires from the back of that switch to the two pins to determine which two pins are used. Then you can remove the two wire from those two pins and carefully short the two pins with a small flat-tip screwdriver. That effectively is the exact same thing as pressing the front panel power button. If it boots fine with the screwdriver but not the switch, the switch is bad. If that case has a reset button, you can move the two wires from the reset button to the two motherboard pins used by the power button, then just use the Reset button from now on.
> 
> Good to see a fellow luddite here. I too like my cases to support optical drives. Fortunately, there are still many cases that do. My next case will likely be the Fractal Design Define 7 - which, behind the front door, still supports a 5.25" drive. We've done many builds with FD case, and they are my preferred case make. Excellent designs, excellent build quality, excellent noise suppression, and they typically come with quality and very quiet case fans too.


BIll, thanks for the info. Based on what you are saying, if the PC attempts to start then the switch should be okay. I suppose I could also put a meter across the wires and make certain the switch is actually momentary and not staying closed. It was time for a new build anyway and I am almost done and will test the new MB, CPU, and memory tomorrow.

One more thing you may be able to help me with. The current power supply is a Corsair 750 full modular. Are all the modular cables the same across different brands of power supplies? These cables fit in the EVGA 850 I have.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Darkkhelmet said:


> The current power supply is a Corsair 750 full modular. Are all the modular cables the same across different brands of power supplies? These cables fit in the EVGA 850 I have.


Modular PSU cables are generally universal at the comptuer-end connectors nowadays but may still vary at the PSU-end connectors. However, there are only a few of the better OEMs that make the units that companies like Corsair and EVGA market so your PSUs may have been made by the same OEM. There is some in-house R&D that can lead to differences even with the same OEM but I'd say that if a power cable's connector fits securely into your PSU and is properly sized to include all of the pins outlined for a specific connector, then you probably can use it. If you list the exact models of the PSUs we might be able to check who they were made by and whether they have the same cable sets.


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

MPR said:


> If you list the exact models of the PSUs we might be able to check who they were made by and whether they have the same cable sets.


Thanks. The EVGA is a Supernova 850 T2 P/N 220-T2-00850 and the Corsair is an RM 750x model RPS0109 P/N CP-9020179 / 75-003444. The Corsair attempts to start but the EVGA stays dark. The Corsair is the original and the EVGA is brand new but connected with the modular Corsair cables.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

Darkkhelmet said:


> I suppose I could also put a meter across the wires and make certain the switch is actually momentary and not staying closed.


That won't work. The switch is not really momentary in that sense, the circuit is. That is, the circuit through the switch is closed as long as you hold the button down, then opens when released. But the point is, as soon as the circuit (motherboard's intelligence) registers the switch being pressed, it ignores further input until the switch is released then closed again. 

This is why advice we sometimes see telling users to press and hold the button down for 30 seconds to "bleed" off any residual voltages in the circuit is total nonsense. That advice came about 30 years ago with the old "AT" Form Factor. With AT power supplies and motherboards, that front panel power switch connected to a wiring harness that went straight back and directly into the power supply. With today's "ATX" Form Factor standards, as noted before, the switch is a remote switch to the motherboard. 



Darkkhelmet said:


> Are all the modular cables the same across different brands of power supplies?


No! You cannot mix and match cables from different supplies. As MPR noted, the component end of power cables are standardized, as required by the ATX Form Factor standard. But there is no standard for the PSU end of those cables. So you cannot mix brands as they often are non-standard and proprietary. 

To make matters worse, it is common for different brands to outsource their PSUs from different OEM manufacturers for their various models. This means we cannot even mix and match cables with different models by the same brand!


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Darkkhelmet said:


> The Corsair is the original and the EVGA is brand new but connected with the modular Corsair cables.


The Corsair appears to be made by CWT and the EVGA by FSP. An incorrect connector won't fit unless you really jam it in there as they are keyed. The problem is that I don't know for sure that the pinouts are exactly the same even if the keys are.

Compatibility can get complex even within the same company. Check out this article.



https://www.evga.com/support/faq/FAQdetails.aspx?faqid=59698


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

Yeah, you cannot go by looks of the connector alone. Two identical "looking" cables could have different wiring layouts. One may have integrated filter caps. It does not help manufactures don't readily publish the pinouts. 

It is just not worth the risk. So get some zip lock bags, put the extra cables from each supply into a bag, then label the bag with the specific brand, model number AND (just to be safe) serial number of the PSU they came with. Then store them in a safe place where they will not get lost.


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

Thanks all for the great advice. I wound up installing the new EVGA PSU for a couple of reasons. For one thing the new MB has 2 CPU power connectors as opposed to one on the old MB and I can not find the spare cables for the Corsair. I also thought it would be a good idea to install the newer stronger PSU with this new build. The PSU I'm installing is a warranty replacement from my game PC. I purchased that PC's new PSU while EVGA was evaluating the one I returned that was 5 years old. The new build is almost complete but like everything else there are always bumps. The CPU cooling fan does not sit well on the chassis so I have ordered a new on. I did power it up and was happy to see it light up. It's still on the bench so I just wanted to see it come to life for a few seconds.


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

And the no start restart problem is...the power switch. It started happening on the new build. I pulled the connector of the MB power pins and when I touched the pins with the connector it started. So the power switch must be stuck closed most of the time. I have another issue thoufg. The new build stops with 5 beeps and does not boot. Always issues. thanks again for all the advice and help.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Darkkhelmet said:


> The new build stops with 5 beeps and does not boot.


5 beeps can mean a CPU failure. Is your CPU supported by your motherboard? Did you possibly bend a pin or suffer a static discharge when placing your CPU? Is the CPU's power hooked up? Is the CPU's cooler plugged in correctly?

This is just a guess as beep codes differ widely. What is the make and model of your motherboard and CPU? Since you are working with multiple machines. You probably should start a new thread for this new issue.









Computer POST and beep codes


Computer beep codes and other POST issues. Page includes AMI, Award, Dell, IBM, and Phoenix BIOS beep code help and information.




www.computerhope.com


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Please do not post more then one thread about the same issue. rolling starts new build

There are diagnostic lights on the Gigabyte Motherboard telling you what is wrong. Gigabyte Z390 & Z590 debug LED codes


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

MPR said:


> 5 beeps can mean a CPU failure. Is your CPU supported by your motherboard? Did you possibly bend a pin or suffer a static discharge when placing your CPU? Is the CPU's power hooked up? Is the CPU's cooler plugged in correctly?
> 
> This is just a guess as beep codes differ widely. What is the make and model of your motherboard and CPU? Since you are working with multiple machines. You probably should start a new thread for this new issue.
> 
> ...


I always use a grounding strap. Thu CPU droped cleanly into place. All the components are new except the SSD drive, ODD drive and my old video card. MB and CPU came as a bundle so the match is good. All power connections are verified but I will double check they are seated. The PC never really starts so there is no heat but the CPU cooler is functioning properly. The components are:

MB: Gigabyte Aorus Z590 Master MB

CPU: Intel I7 11700KF

Vetroo V5 CPU Air Cooler w/ 5 Heat Pipes 120mm PWM Processor 150W TDP Cooler for Intel LGA 1700/1200/115X AMD AM5/AM4 w/Addressable RGB Lights Sync(V5, Black)

PSU: EVGA 850 T2

Memory: CORSAIR - VENGEANCE LPX CMK32GX4M2E3200C16 32GB (2PK X 16GB) 3200MHz DDR4 C16 DIMM

Video card: EVGA 580GTX (oldie but adequate for this build)

Mid size Cooler Master case


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

Do you see any diagnostic lights on the motherboard?


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

Okay, it looks like there are some misaligned pins on the CPU socket on the MB. Probably my doing but until I get a replacement MB the project is on hold. Thanks all and I will get beck with the results in a few days when the new MB is installed.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

Darkkhelmet said:


> So the power switch must be stuck closed most of the time.


Maybe. You need to see if you can access the back of the switch and do a good visual inspection. There could be a dust bunny stuck in there a quick blast with a can of dusting gas could take care of. I have also seen where the switch comes loose from its bracket and needs to be "snapped" back in. In other cases, the plastic tines holding it in broke, fixed by a couple blobs of strategically placed hot glue.


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

Bill_Bright said:


> Maybe. You need to see if you can access the back of the switch and do a good visual inspection. There could be a dust bunny stuck in there a quick blast with a can of dusting gas could take care of. I have also seen where the switch comes loose from its bracket and needs to be "snapped" back in. In other cases, the plastic tines holding it in broke, fixed by a couple blobs of strategically placed hot glue.


I think this issue has been with the case since it was new. I tried a few builds when I first got the case but they would never work. I finally got it to work when I changed the power supply but now I think that was just a coincidence. I might do as you suggest but I will never have faith in the switch again. I have temporarily connected the case restart button to the power on connector on the MB and that works fine. I ordered a couple of small stick on momentary switches and will try that as a solution. Thanks for the advice.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

Darkkhelmet said:


> I ordered a couple of small stick on momentary switches and will try that as a solution. Thanks for the advice.


Yeah, sadly, to save a few pennies, some computer makers and some cases no longer come with Reset switch - which I think is sad. So I have used switches similar to those you got. 

Recently, we used this switch. It's a little pricy and required drilling a hole through the cover of an empty 5.25 drive bay, but it looks nice. Going through the bay cover was nice because we could do it outside the case and didn't have to worry about any debris from the drilling getting into the computer.


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

Bill_Bright said:


> Yeah, sadly, to save a few pennies, some computer makers and some cases no longer come with Reset switch - which I think is sad. So I have used switches similar to those you got.
> 
> Recently, we used this switch. It's a little pricy and required drilling a hole through the cover of an empty 5.25 drive bay, but it looks nice. Going through the bay cover was nice because we could do it outside the case and didn't have to worry about any debris from the drilling getting into the computer.


I looked at several switches that required drilling through the case but prefer the stick on easier and lazier solution. I can still run the wire through the case.


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## Sophus (Feb 4, 2011)

Darkkhelmet said:


> ...MB and CPU came as a bundle so the match is good....


That isn't necessarily true. There are "combo" CPU + Motherboard (and similar) offers on popular websites *that must not to be automatically assumed compatible* just because they are offered together.

If one plans to use the items together, it is the buyer's responsibilty to verify compatibility of the components listed in such "combo" offers.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

Darkkhelmet said:


> MB and CPU came as a bundle so the match is good.





Sophus said:


> That isn't necessarily true. There are "combo" CPU + Motherboard (and similar) offers on popular websites *that must not to be automatically assumed compatible* just because they are offered together.


I disagree. First, note that Darkkhelmet didn't say "compatible". He said the "match is good". Big difference! Compatible automatically implies the parts will physically fit together properly and they will function as a single unit together properly. You cannot mount an AMD CPU on an Intel motherboard, for example, because they are NOT compatible. The CPU will not fit in the socket. The chipset and CPU do not know how to communicate with each other, so they cannot function as a unit together. 

If the motherboard and CPU are marketed and sold together as a bundle or combo, consumers can expect them to be "compatible". Yes, it is always wise to double check before assembly because humans make mistakes. The warehouse worker packing the order, for example, might grab the wrong part. 

If parts are intentionally sold as a combo/bundle, but are not "compatible", that is clearly deceptive (if not criminal) behavior and the retailer can expect a quick return at their expense that better be hassle-free! If not, they will have one very upset and very vocal ex-customer on their hands who ensures everyone know knows who not to do business with. If the retailer is in the US, Canada, the EU and some other jurisdictions, the retailer can probably expect some litigation and/or law enforcement action against them too. 

Buyers should not, however, assume a "good match". Spending $700 on a high end gaming AMD motherboard, then putting in a low-end, entry level CPU, and just 4GB of RAM, while compatible, may not be a "good match". And in that case, then I agree with Sophus, and that is the consumer's responsibility to ensure one component is not going to bottleneck the other. 

I note some retailers create bundles or combinations, mixing popular products with less popular products in order to move inventory of those products that are not selling very well. Still "compatible" but not a "good match". So again, buyer beware.


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

Sophus said:


> That isn't necessarily true. There are "combo" CPU + Motherboard (and similar) offers on popular websites *that must not to be automatically assumed compatible* just because they are offered together.
> 
> If one plans to use the items together, it is the buyer's responsibilty to verify compatibility of the components listed in such "combo" offers.


I believe this is a correct match:
GIGABYTE Z590 AORUS Master (LGA 1200/Intel Z590} and Intel® Core™ i7-11700KF Desktop Processor Unlocked LGA1200 (Intel® 500 Series & Select 400 Series Chipset)


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 17, 2004)

If you look at the motherboard's CPU QVL (qualified vendors list) here, that CPU certainly is listed as being supported. That's a good thing.  And that CPU is nice i7 so IMO, they do make a good "match".


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## Corday (Mar 3, 2010)

spunk.funk said:


> Please do not post more then one thread about the same issue. rolling starts new build


That thread is now closed and readers are referred to this one. Didn't merge as that would have created more confusion.


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## Darkkhelmet (Apr 14, 2006)

I apologize for having two threads that became focused on the same topic, that was not my intention, The case issue and boot issue were supposed to be two different topics. That being said...

I just finished the build with the replacement MB. I replaced the power switch and that works fine. This build is to replace my wife's PC that failed. I moved the boot SSD to the new build. I am still getting the 5 beeps on startup with codes AD (Issue ready to boot event for OS boot} and D9 (Can't load boot option) cycling. There is no video. Is there anything other than the CPU that would cause this?


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## spunk.funk (May 13, 2010)

There are Diagnostic lights on the Motherboard telling you what's wrong. (ie) *CPU, RAM or VGA*. 
This set of beeps is usually associated with the Processor and the CPU light will be lit on the motherboard.
Here are the Beep Codes for Gigabyte Motherboards





What do the POST beeps from my Motherboard mean and how can I hear them?


What do the POST beeps from my Motherboard mean and how can I hear them?




forum.giga-byte.co.uk





Remove the GPU and use the onboard HDMI for testing purposes.


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