# Could I make this work? Advice needed



## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm building a really inexpensive computer using some old hardware. I know I would regret it if I didn't ask for some advice before buying parts. There are a couple questions I have. Will my old power supply work with the new motherboard, gpu, cpu, etc? What cables do I need to get with the parts? Do I already have those cables in my old desktop? Will the new motherboard/parts fit in my old case?

*Old parts:*


 300w power supply //If model is needed I can look that up


 Old Gateway 614GE case

*New parts:*


 JetWay JM26GT4-A-LF AM3/AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA NF6100-430 (MCP61P) Micro ATX AMD Motherboard Newegg.com - JetWay JM26GT4-A-LF AM3/AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA NF6100-430 (MCP61P) Micro ATX AMD Motherboard



Nvidia 9500GT (already bought) (minimum 300w psu needed)



AMD Athlon II X3 450 95w (I'm tempted to get this cpu because the 4th core can be unlocked and it's selling for $74). Amazon.com: AMD Athlon II X3 450 95W Processor (ADX450WFGMBOX): Electronics



PNY Optima 2GB DDR2 RAM Amazon.com: PNY OPTIMA 2GB (2x1GB) Dual Channel Kit DDR2 667 MHz PC2-5300 Desktop DIMM Memory Modules MD2048KD2-667: Electronics
*Problems:*



I know that the motherboard won't allow me to unlock the 4th core in the cpu. Although this motherboard is really cheap it has everything I need and it sounds like a bargain. If anyone can suggest a motherboard with similar details at a similar price I would appreciate it.
The motherboard details say it supports a maximum of 65w cpu _however_ I read someone's comment that said he is using a 95w cpu with the motherboard. I want to go with this cpu instead of a dual core because it's only about $10 more than most dual cores.

I appreciate any help I can get. Thank you.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Spend a few extra dollars for a Asus or Gigabyte Mobo for quality and reliability.
Get a good quality PSU. At least 450W if you do NOT intend to add a dedicated GPU.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks for the reply.

I'm also looking at this mobo and I think this might be a better choice. I think I can unlock the 4th core with this mobo and it can definitely handle a higher watt cpu. Newegg.com - ASRock A770DE+ AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard

As for the PSU I wanted to avoid getting a new one, but maybe I shouldn't play around with that. I'll look around for one.

*Couple quick questions:*


Could I build a system that uses DDR3 memory for around the same price? Would that be a smarter choice?
What do you think about the triple core CPU that unlocks to a quad? Would I be better off with another CPU for the price (the triple core is $74).


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

follow tyrees advice. Asus and gigabyte are best for motherboards and the same for his psu suggestion.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Oh I will no doubt. This was really just going to be a low budget build until I can drop a $1000 or less on building a better PC. I understand though if I'm going to do it I may as well do it right. 

Any suggestions about the questions in my last post?


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

I doubt you will find a ddr 3 mobo that includes everything you want for that budget and a motherboard that will allow you to unlock the fourth core either.

why dont you just save up the money till you have it all to build a better system, As you may find that you build this budget build and when you have the money you have to buy everything again. If you have 300 now why not wait untill you have another 700?


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Well the main reason is because I want to join a tournament with some friends, and I need a computer in less than a month to do that. I won't be running into much money until a couple months from now, so I figured I would do a full upgrade then and sell this computer im planning on building to someone else.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Quick question: What should I look for when looking for a mobo that can unlock cores? ACC?


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

You can put together a nice inexpensive system with quality components.

GIGABYTE GA-78LMT-S2P AM3+ AMD 760G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard $55 after rebate.

Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-78LMT-S2P AM3+ AMD 760G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard


4GB kit (2GBx2), 240-pin DIMM, DDR3-1066 memory module $30
Guaranteed-compatible with the Giga-Byte GA-78LMT-S2P

4GB kit (2GBx2), 240-pin DIMM, DDR3 PC3-8500 upgrades for Giga-Byte GA-78LMT-S2P Motherboard, CT2284526 from Crucial.com


AMD Athlon II X2 255 Regor 3.1GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor ADX255OCGMBOX QVL certified for GA-78LMT-S2P 


Newegg.com - AMD Athlon II X2 255 Regor 3.1GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor ADX255OCGMBOX $62

XFX ProSeries P1-450S-X2B9 450W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Core Edition V2 Full Wired Power Supply $40 after rebate

Newegg.com - XFX ProSeries P1-450S-X2B9 450W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Core Edition V2 Full Wired Power Supply

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $50

Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

LG DVD Burner $20

Newegg.com - LG DVD Burner 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model GH24NS70 - CD / DVD Burners


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Wow you're awesome for putting that together for me. I really appreciate that. Those prices are unbelievable. My only question is wouldn't I be better off with the AMD Athlon II X3 (triple core unlockable to 4th core) than the AMD Athlon II X2?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Note: the PSU listed above is a top quality unit but it will NOT be sufficient if you intend to add a dedicated GPU.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

By dedicated GPU do you mean an external video card?


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Personally, I don't like the idea of unlocking cores. You might get an actual quad core CPU that had one core disabled because they were running out of a better selling lower model. However, what you will probably get is a CPU that had a defective core locked. You can go through a lot of headaches unlocking and trying to stabilize a core only to find it defective.

BTW, that build above (sans case and the video card you already have) is less than $300. I don't think you can get a decent system for much less than that.

Sorry, I picked the wrong CPU, considering your have a video card. Here is one for $10 more that should work.

Newegg.com - XFX Core Edition PRO550W (P1-550S-XXB9) 550W ATX12V 2.2 & ESP12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply

The 9500 GT uses relatively little power compared to newer cards. If you plan on upgrading to a gaming card in the future you will need this one or an equivalent.

Newegg.com - XFX Core Edition PRO650W (P1-650S-NLB9) 650W ATX12V 2.2 & ESP12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

I could be wrong, but wouldn't it be smarter to get a triple core instead of a dual core regardless? I mean if the 4th core doesn't unlock, then so be it, but I'll still have 3 cores right? 

I'm really impressed with what you put together there, I didn't know I could even put together a PC with DDR3 for that price. I seriously might go with that. You think all of that would fit just fine in this gateway case?


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Looks like I should go with the 650w PSU because it's $70 after rebate which is the same price as the 550w PSU. As for the CPU, what do you think I should go with? I think I saw a Phenom X4 for $90 on new egg. What do you think?


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Many of the name-brand cases I've worked with are cramped and hard to cool. You can get a nice little mid-tower case for under $50. 

That triple core CPU you originally linked works with the GA-78LMT-S2P motherboard and the motherboard is capable of unlocking cores. However, be aware that unlocking cores voids the CPU warranty.

If you want to try core unlocking I'd do a bit of reading beforehand on the procedure and the pros and cons. I'd also browse the forums and watch some videos -- there are several articles and videos for the exact components we have discussed as many people make a hobby of creating low-prices gaming rigs.

I like the AMD Phenom II line as it currently has an excellent performance to price ratio. Be aware though that the $90 CPU you mention does not come with a fan and heat sink. The stock AMD fan and heat sink is actually rather good and the boxed processor is only $10 more.

Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 840 3.2GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor HDX840WFGMBOX

Here is an instance where the quad core is actually a better buy because dual core Phenom IIs are about the same price.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

I really appreciate the advice man. Thank you very much for everything! One more thing, should I just get the Phenom quad core for $90 instead of the triple core for $74?

EDIT: I just saw you added something to your post let me check it out.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Wow I can't even find that $90 CPU on new egg. No idea where that went. Maybe I'm confusing it with this one on amazon Amazon.com: AMD Phenom II X4 840 Edition Deneb 3.2 GHz 4x512 KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail HDX840WFGMBOX (Black): Electronics

It looks identical to the one you sent except for that it's named "Deneb"? It's selling for $90 new on amazon. You think I should go with this? Does it include the heat sink and fan?


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

It's worth saving $10 so I contacted the sellers to find out if it comes with a heatsink and fan. It should right? It's sealed and brand new.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

pe4nut said:


> It's worth saving $10 so I contacted the sellers to find out if it comes with a heatsink and fan. It should right? It's sealed and brand new.



You can either buy boxed CPUs with heatsink and fan or bare CPUs for which you must purchase a heatsink and fan, If you research reviews of aftermarket heatsinks versus the stock AMD one you will find that it's actually quite good. You can add an aftermarket heatsink for a bit more cooling and noise reduction but you are not going to do it for ten dollars.

Bare CPUs are often purchased in bulk and then sold as part of CPU/Motherboard combos or bare bones systems. In fact, you will see that it's the case here.

Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 925 Deneb 2.8GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor HDX925WFK4DGM - Processors - Desktops

You might be able to find a computer part for less money than at Newegg but they are by far one of the better companies and a couple of extra bucks here and there is worth it for their customer support. That one you linked sells for $100 too and comes indirect through Amazon from CircuitCity. Amazon links other sites which sell the CPU for a bit less but they may not be as reliable.

AMD black editions are made for overclocking. If you don't overclock then the regular edition is often cheaper and works just as well.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Oh I know, but I just assumed a heatsink and fan would come with it if it's in the original sealed box? Am I wrong? Like with the CPU you linked me to (AMD Phenom II X4) on new egg, would that include a stock heatsink and fan?

_If it comes with a heatsink and fan on new egg I will definitely go with that. I have no problem spending the extra $10. And like you said it's worth spending the extra bucks for customer service etc.

_

The seller on Amazon just responded and said it does come with a heatsink and fan. I would save $10, but the only drawback would be no new egg customer service. What do you think?
Im out for now. I'll be back on later.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Any retail CPU "should"come with a heatsink/fan. OEM CPU's do not come with the heatsink/fan.
The CPU that MPR linked to is OEM and does NOT come with a heatsink/fan.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Usually if it's shown in a box it has a heatsink and fan (but like Tyree implies "should" and "does" might be two different things, which is another reason to go with a good dealer). 

You can look at the specs to make sure. The Phenom II 840 x4 that sells for $100 is a processor in a box and comes with a heatsink and fan. If you look under the Details tab it will tell you this.

Cooling Device Heatsink and Fan included​
The 925 that I linked last is, as Tyree said, OEM (marketed to bulk system builders) and comes bare. Once again, this information is present at Newegg.

Cooling Device Cooling device not included - Processor Only​
If you buy an OEM processor you would have to buy a heatsink and fan and some thermal compound too, which is going to add at least $20. Also, Newegg won't even sell it to you unless you bundle it with one of their combo deals.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Tyree said:


> Any retail CPU "should"come with a heatsink/fan. OEM CPU's do not come with the heatsink/fan.
> The CPU that MPR linked to is OEM and does NOT come with a heatsink/fan.





MPR said:


> Usually if it's shown in a box it has a heatsink and fan (but like Tyree implies "should" and "does" might be two different things, which is another reason to go with a good dealer).
> 
> You can look at the specs to make sure. The Phenom II 840 x4 that sells for $100 is a processor in a box and comes with a heatsink and fan. If you look under the Details tab it will tell you this.Cooling Device Heatsink and Fan included​The 925 that I linked last is, as Tyree said, OEM (marketed to bulk system builders) and comes bare. Once again, this information is present at Newegg.Cooling Device Cooling device not included - Processor Only​If you buy an OEM processor you would have to buy a heatsink and fan and some thermal compound too, which is going to add at least $20. Also, Newegg won't even sell it to you unless you bundle it with one of their combo deals.


This is really interesting. I mean by the looks of it OEM processors are a lose-lose situation. You wouldn't really be saving money, and you would be forced to go with the parts in the combo package. I don't get that at all. Maybe if you're buying things in bulk it would be cost effective I don't really know.

Anyway, I've decided to go with the $90 CPU on Amazon because it's identical to the one on new egg, and the seller replied telling me the heatsink and fan are included. Sounds good to me. 

So far so good. I have the CPU, GPU, PSU, motherboard, and RAM down (not bought just picked out so far). Lastly I need a case (I'm looking at this one Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case). 

And I'll probably pick up that LG DVD burner/CD-Rom you linked me to in your first post MPR.

*Parts Picked*


CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 840
GPU: 9500GT (already bought and it will do for now)
PSU: XFX Core Edition PRO650W
MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-78LMT-S2P
RAM: 4GB DDR3 RAM for $30 (link can be found on the first page)
LG DVD burner/CD-Rom (link can be found on the first page)


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

For the individual builder who is planning on using an aftermarket heatsink anyway, OEM CPUs can save some money as they probably will just toss a stock heatsink in a drawer somewhere.

A lot of case selection is just personal preference; however, read the feedback reviews to see if there are any problems or idiosyncrasies that you might not want to deal with.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Need some advice on the case. Do you think this one is big enough for everything I posted? It got really good reviews I just don't know what I should be looking for in terms of the case dimensions. What dimensions are considered big/medium/small?
*
Dimensions: 15.00" x 7.50" x 13.80*"

Newegg.com - Rosewill R101-P-BK 120mm Fan MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

That micro ATX case might be a bit cramped when you are routing wires, and you should use zip ties and rout them so as not to block airflow, but it should work just fine with your Micro-XTX motherboard.

Some people really like the small size of such cases, especially if their desk setup necessitates that the case be on top of the desktop. Conversely, an ATX mid tower will usually have mounting holes to fit a micro ATX board (check the specs to make sure), leave more space for routing wires, and may allow the system to run a bit cooler. A full tower can be a monster and unless you have more than a half dozen drives to mount is overkill, in my opinion.

Here are the dimensions of the two cases I have here on my desk:

Micro ATX mid tower: 14" high x 7" wide x 16" deep.
Full ATX mid tower: 17" high x 8.5" wide x 18.5 " deep.

A commonly-used full tower gaming case: 22.70" x 9.00" x 21.50"


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

I would suggest a Mid-Tower case to guarantee adequate room for components and to comfortably work inside.
CoolerMaster and Antec cases are well built and user friendly.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

MPR said:


> That micro ATX case might be a bit cramped when you are routing wires, and you should use zip ties and rout them so as not to block airflow, but it should work just fine with your Micro-XTX motherboard.
> 
> Some people really like the small size of such cases, especially if their desk setup necessitates that the case be on top of the desktop. Conversely, an ATX mid tower will usually have mounting holes to fit a micro ATX board (check the specs to make sure), leave more space for routing wires, and may allow the system to run a bit cooler. A full tower can be a monster and unless you have more than a half dozen drives to mount is overkill, in my opinion.
> 
> ...


I'm going for the case I posted or this one:
Newegg.com - Rosewill R102-P-BK 120mm Fan MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case

And *Tyree*, both are listed as mid towers. Are these cases smaller than the average mid tower or what?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Both of the Rosewill case links you have in your posts are listed as MicroATX. The CoolerMaster listed in your Post# 24 is a Mid-Tower 18.90" x 7.95" x 17.13"
Personally, I would use a better quality case i.e. the Coolemaster.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Tyree said:


> Both of the Rosewill case links you have in your posts are listed as MicroATX. The CoolerMaster listed in your Post# 24 is a Mid-Tower 18.90" x 7.95" x 17.13"
> Personally, I would use a better quality case i.e. the Coolemaster.


I'll take your word on that. The more room the better. A friend of mine suggested that I get some more fans for the case do you think that's really necessary? Or is the 120mm rear fan that comes with it enough?


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Picking up a 80mm fan for the front


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

I agree with my teammate Tyree on the mid-tower case. You want a case with room for heat expansion then the lower front fan draws cool air in pushing it to the upper rear exhaust fan. Small cases don't allow for heat expansion and will make your other hardware components run hotter.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

If you plan on an intake fan (I, personally, think that they are better to have than a single rear fan), make sure that your case choice either comes with or has mounting capability for one. If the case can mount an optional fan it will usually say something like 1 x 120 mm front fan (optional) in the specs.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

The CoolerMaster has a mount up front for an 80mm fan but 80mm fans turn faster and tend to be noisy. The single rear mount 120mm fan will probably be fine.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

I haven't been on my ancient computer in a while because the USB keeps disconnecting on me. I'm guessing it's a motherboard issue. I've managed to get the mouse to stay connected somehow. I guess I picked a good time to upgrade.

Anyway, most parts are ordered. Just received a few of them this week. *I have one last question before I make the final order*. I've read in the product reviews that the motherboard I bought actually supports a maximum of 1600mhz RAM although in the product details on newegg it says it supports a maximum of 1333+? I figure if the mobo supports 1600 RAM I may as well go with that since 4GB of 1600 is only $5 more than 1333. So, I'm confused here. Does the mobo really support 1600? If so why do the details not list that...? Is there anyway I can guarantee it will support 1600mhz memory?

GIGABYTE GA-78LMT-S2P Mobo: Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-78LMT-S2P AM3+ AMD 760G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

according to the gigabyte website (who make the motherboard) 1333MHz is the best it takes.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

Memory Standard for the GIGABYTE GA-78LMT-S2P is DDR3 1333+ (O.C.)/1066/800.
1600MHz is not supported. 
Go with 1066 to avoid problems.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Yeah I don't get why someone would leave a review saying hes running 1600mhz RAM with it. He said something like although it's not listed in the details it does work. Either way I'm just going with DDR3 1333. Why do you suggest I should go with 1066? And what exactly does the + mean in 1333+?


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

I suggest 1600 because the Mobo supports that speed with no OC'ing. 1333 requires OC'ing to reach it's rated speed with that Mobo. Little to no difference will be seen between 1066 and 1333.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Interesting. So The + in 1333+ in the motherboard details means it can run 1333 if overclocked? I'll take your word for it and get the 1066. 

*Does it matter if I get a single 4GB stick opposed to 2 x 2GB sticks?* No difference? I figure I would get a 4GB stick so that in the future if I need 8GB I can just get another 4GB stick.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

You want to be running Dual Channel memory and they are sold in pairs so get the 2 x 2 Gb kit.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Amd_Man said:


> You want to be running Dual Channel memory and they are sold in pairs so get the 2 x 2 Gb kit.


Why is better to run 2 x 2GB? Is it because they take the load off each other and won't overheat? Just curious. Thanks for the advice.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

Single channel memory runs at 64 bits. Dual channel runs at 128 bits. Dual channel speeds up the comunication between the memory controller and the memory.

Everything You Need to Know About Dual Channel | Hardware Secrets


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

Amd_Man said:


> Single channel memory runs at 64 bits. Dual channel runs at 128 bits. Dual channel speeds up the comunication between the memory controller and the memory.
> 
> Everything You Need to Know About Dual Channel | Hardware Secrets


Browsing around most people say there isn't really a difference between running dual channel opposed to single. But I think when running high end games and applications that utilize all of the streaming memory it would probably make a difference. Thanks for the heads up and the link nonetheless.


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## Amd_Man (Jan 27, 2009)

It wasn't much of a difference with single core cpu's, but dual and quad cores that are multi-threaded it makes a big difference.


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## Tyree (May 10, 2009)

pe4nut said:


> Browsing around most people say there isn't really a difference between running dual channel opposed to single.


I would have to seriously disagree with them.


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## pe4nut (Aug 3, 2011)

The bench marks I saw was on a Core 2 Duo - DDR2 system so maybe things have changed since that dual core CPU. Either way Im taking the advice here and going with dual channel memory.


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## greenbrucelee (Apr 24, 2007)

pe4nut said:


> The bench marks I saw was on a Core 2 Duo - DDR2 system so maybe things have changed since that dual core CPU. Either way Im taking the advice here and going with dual channel memory.


good choice. Anyone who says that there isn't much difference between dual channel and single channel does not know what they are talking about and if they work in IT then I would seriously doubt their credentials.


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## MPR (Aug 28, 2010)

Think of dual channel like this -- you are the processor and you have to, say pull an item out of a box (the RAM) and then put it back into that box after you stamp it "inspected". If you are a single core non-hyper-threaded CPU it really doesn't matter whether there is one box or two; however, if you are a multi-core-hyper-threaded CPU you can get more done by pulling items out of two boxes at a time. For specific operations, triple channel is even faster.

Core i7 Dual Channel vs Triple Channel Memory Test - Sandra 2009 

Of course, this all depends on the applications you run. When comparing technology try to find specific benchmarks for the applications that you will use vs. combined or synthetic ones.


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