# Compatibility check



## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Hi folks,

If you could help me out with compatibility, recommendations and some questions that I had, that'd be awesome. Thanks!

I'm going for a desktop system within a maximum budget of around... $2500 NZ/$1760 US. I live in New Zealand so the prices are different here to account for local tax and shipping. 

I'm aiming for a combination of power and longevity. 
I'll be using the system for graphic design, recording music on software like Audacity, and some gaming.

Here are the parts and my rationale for each based on my limited research. Apologies for n00bness in advance.

The first three things here are the aspects of the computer that I'm pretty certain on.

*Core:*
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500
I was told that quad-core processing wasn't really worth it given the relatively small amount of software that can make use of it so far. Lower price and higher clock speed also appeals.
*
GPU:*
Sapphire Radeon 4870
Appears to be a really good value and powerful card.

*O/S:*
Vista Ultimate x64
To support larger amounts of RAM (theoretically up to 128GB, right?) and a 64-bit CPU.

*Sound Card:*
Creative Audigy. I'm doing a bit of sound recording so some acceleration would be handy.

*Motherboard: *
It looks to me like I could either go with... the Intel DG33BUC if I wanted DDR2 RAM (ATA, and SATA but no Firewire port), 

OR 

the Intel BOXDP45SG for DDR3 RAM (with Firewire and SATA support)

As far as I understand, DDR3 offers a slight overall speed increase on the DDR2 (once bandwidth and clock speeds are factored in). 

This obviously comes at a (probably disproportionate) cost, but is it a potentially more future-proof system in that my system could hold newer, better forms of DDR3 when they're released..? Or does the 1333mhz FSB on the motherboard mean that improved forms of DDR3 will be held back by my system?

Also, two questions on SATA:

1) does a SATA motherboard mean that I can plug an eSATA (external) hard drive into the thing?

2) is it possible to boot an operating system off an eSATA hard drive and have the system run at acceptable speeds?

*RAM:* 8 GB (2 x 2xGB). This depends on the motherboard (see above)

*Optical Drive:*
On this I'm too sure - something affordable and reliable which burns CDs and DVDs and can read Blu-Ray.

*HDD:*
Either a Western Digital 300GB Velociraptor or a Seagate Barracuda 1TB drive. Is the extra performance of the 10,000 rpm drive worth the cost over a 1TB? I've read a lot of conflicting accounts...

*Case:*
Not too sure...

Thanks for reading all that. If you can help me piece the system together or answer any of those questions it'd be much appreciated.

Cheers!


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Hi, welcome to TSF

*CPU*. Yes, stick with the dual core. Unless the software you're going to be using has been specifically written to take advantage of the extra cores of a quad, then dual is sufficient. Good choice on the E8500

*GPU*. Another good choice. Sapphire is one of the better makes, but as the 4870 is a new card, all the various makes (Asus, Gigabyte, etc) are very similar in performance. Shop around for some good deals, either lower prices or ones with free games thrown in.

*OS*. You can use 64bit XP if your main concern is the extra RAM capabilities. Vista is still having trouble with drivers and not all software runs well on it, especially older programs.

*Sound card*. If you're doing professional sound editing and need all the extra ports and features, you'll need a high-end card, but for basic editing and playback, any Creative card will do.

*Motherboard*. I would stick with DDR2 for now. The small performance increase of DDR3 doesn't justify the high price tag. DDR2 will easily be good enough for another couple of years.

*RAM*. 8GB should be plenty. I do image and music editing and manage fine with 2GB.

*Optical drive*. Not sure about Blu-Ray. Hang on for some more replies about this.

*HDD*. Go for the faster 10,000rpm drive for multimedia work. And try and get one with 32mb cache instead of the usual 8 or 16mb. If 300GB is not enough, just add another drive.


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks a lot Koala.

So folks, the system is looking like this at the moment. I still want to do the things that I covered in the first post, but have clarified the rest a bit thanks to Koala's help and my research.

*CPU:* Intel Core 2 Duo 8500

*GPU:* Radeon 4870. 
If anyone has any recommendations on which brand of 4870 I should get, please let me know.

*O/S:* A 64 bit version of Windows XP. 
Should I be going with Windows XP 64 Professional or plain vanilla Win XP 64 for best performance, security and compatibility with what I have listed here? And, is there anything I need to be aware of with this version of Windows? I hear there are lots of driver issues even with XP 64, let alone Vista.

*Sound Card:* Creative Audigy.
Cheap and good by the _sound _of things, no pun intended. Bahaha.

*Motherboard:* Intel DG33BUC. 
I am missing out on Firewire here which I'm a little concerned about... I would like the ability to boot from an external hard drive if need be, but I guess SATA can allow me to do that - and it's faster than Firewire?

*RAM:* 8 GB total, 2 x 2x2GB DDR2 RAM. 
Are there any brands I should be looking at in particular given my configuration above?

*Optical Drive:* Maybe an LG or a Sony? 
To my knowledge they both do Blu-Ray reader/DVD & CD burner combo drives. I just want a drive that's as cheap as possible, reliable and from a reputable brand.

*HDD:* Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB. 
This is a 10,000 RPM drive but only has a 16MB cache.

I'm still investigating but will update this post soon. Thanks!


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## wayliff (Mar 24, 2002)

seems like all good choices - though I'd like to question why XP 64-bit.
I started using Vista 64-bit on an older nforce4 system and I was able to find drivers for it and it was stable. I have not run across any software that has not run well on vista 64-bit.
I migrated to a new AMD 770 chipset system with an AMD processor and it is rock solid.
I am able to run 32-bit apps and 64-bit apps. As well as some games.
The hardware you chose has to have driver support for Vista 64-bit.

I am sure there must be apps having issues but I have not seen the issue around.
If an app won't work on 64-bit then I am going to dare to say it won't work on XP or Vista. (If different, please let me know as I'd like to update my KB)

I think moving forward vista will have better ongoing support - xp has extended support but I have to think that MS will focus more on vista.

My .2 cents.


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks Wayliff. I need to look into the Vista/XP debate a bit more, it's hard to come off with a strong opinion one way or another (though Microsoft offering optional Vista downgrades is pretty darn telling I must admit). But I think 64-bit clarifies the issue. And given that I want 8 GB of ram and the e8500 chip, I guess there's no option. 

On a similar-ish basis, I'm wondering if a DDR-3 compatible motherboard isn't a bad idea considering I want my system to last as long as possible...

Also, and back to the thread topic - you guys can't see any compatibility issues?


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

For an external drive you want to look for a board that supports E-Sata.
Like the Intel P35 board here which has firewire and E-sata> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121314 Link used for specs purposes.

For Ram use a good brand name like Corsair, Patroit or Crucial and use their configuration utility to select the right specs.

If you buy a DDR3 MB now it probably won't support the speed of DDR3 in 2 years just like a P945 board won't support DD2 1066 now so I don't see any advantage to it yet as the supported speeds now don't justify the extra cost. 

Vista has come a long way in the last year 


I have a Sony Blu-Ray drive it's ok but I really don't use it that much.


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Hmmm... so after looking at P35 chipsets, I'm thinking a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P motherboard may be what I'm after (link). It has Firewire (though only 1394a support), an eSATA adapter, DDR2 support up to 8GB, plenty of USB potential, 2xPCI slots, 3xPCIe and 2xPCIe x16 slots if I ever feel rich enough to go Crossfire.

On RAM the Corsair configurator has left me more confused than when I started so will have to do some more research... whew!


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Looks good. I can't see any compatibility problems.

Is the firewire support good enough or would you like some more P35 recommendations?

My P45 motherboard supports eSATA2 which is about 2400MB/s compared to firewire 1394a (400MB/s) and 1394b (800MB/s). I use the eSATA drive regularly for moving large files around and it doesn't feel any slower than my internal SATA2 drives. It also supports both DDR3 and 800/1066 DDR2 RAM, although I'm only using 800 DDR2.

Let us know which motherboard you are definitely going to buy, then we'll look at suitable RAM for it.


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks a lot. Well the GA-P35-DS3P comes with an eSATA adapter, and the board itself claims to be SATA-II capable. I like the fact that it's expandable (2x PCIe x16 slots)

If there's a board which has all those features *and* supports IEEE 1394b/Firewire 800 then that'd be great, but eSATA's 3Gb/s makes it somewhat redundant I guess, since the external drive I have my eye on (a Western Digital 1TB) supports eSATA.

I'm pretty clueless and am learning basically everything as I'm going so if you know of something better motherboard-wise I should be going after, then let me know. The idea is as cheap as possible, reliable, and with the features I need (eSATA, maybe Firewire, at least one PCIe x16 slot).

Cheers!


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

For someone who is "pretty clueless", you've done an excellent job with the components you've chosen. :smile:

I'm not sure that you'll need 8GB of RAM though. As I said, I only have 2GB and do the same kind of things as you, multimedia editing, gaming, etc. and have no problems with too little RAM. If you decide to go for *32bit* Windows, either XP or Vista, the RAM limit will be 3.5GB which I think is plenty for the work you'll be doing.

Unless you have a firewire device that you'll be using regularly, I wouldn't worry about it being only 400/800MB/s. As long as the motherboard supports eSATA you can go for a good fast external drive.

The one thing we haven't mentioned yet is the PSU. For a high-end computer like yours, this is the most important part. You should be looking at 750W from a good quality name like SeaSonic, Crucial, OCZ, PC Power & Cooling, Thermaltake, etc.


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Maybe add Corsair to koala's list of Power Supplies.


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

Thanks, wrench. I meant Corsair not Crucial. That's for memory :grin:


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks folks. I'll have a much more in-depth response for you later on today. I haven't looked at power supplies just yet. After some examination, a P45 mobo (I'm leaning towards a Gigabyte model) is looking promising. 

My only worry is that I need to keep an eye on the cost - it could potentially spiral way out of my ballpark. 

But, if I only go for 4GB of RAM (pretty sufficient for Vista x64 and hungry games/media apps should I go that way, right?) that should bring the cost down significantly. 2x2GB sticks of higher-end Corsair ram is around $273 NZ from my research at the moment.

Getting hold of the parts I need is also going to be a challenge. I think I'd prefer to do it via local resellers - I'm pretty sure it'd cost me more to import parts individually since I live on the edge of the world. I don't even know if there are any 300GB WD VelociRaptors around here yet...

It looks like this might even end up being my first ever build! Which is kind of unexpected, a bit intimidating but pretty exciting...


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Alright, here's the latest version...

*Pretty sure of:*
*CPU:* Intel Core 2 Duo 8500. Maaaybe an 8600, depending on the price here.
*GPU:* Sapphire Radeon 4870
*O/S:* Windows Vista Premium or Ultimate x64
*Sound Card:* Creative Audigy
*HDD:* Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB

*Might need more work:*
*Motherboard:* Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS5
*RAM:* 4 GB DDR2 RAM - Corsair Dominator TWIN2X4096-8500C5DF w/fan, 1066mhz. I'm really guessing here.
*Optical Drive:* Asus DRW-2014L1T DVD Writer. _Way _cheaper. I really don't realistically need the Blu-Ray now and by the time I do, a Blu-Ray Writer will probably be affordable. From reviews this drive seems pretty solid, and Lightscribe is a huge time saver.
*Power Supply:* I'm really stuck here. I was considering a Corsair TX750, but I'm really not sure what my hardware needs in terms of connectors and so on. In the future I _might _add another 4GB ram, a 1TB eSATA HD, maybe another 4870 in crossfire. Will this provide enough headroom?
*Case:* Maybe a Gigabyte GZ-X6? Again, I'm not sure what my components need. Will this PC need additional, non-stock cooling?

Thanks!


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

To select the right memory use the configurer> http://www.corsair.com/configurator/default.aspx

The TX750 has more connectors than a PBX board(just kidding) it should have all you need.

The Asus drives are decent I've had one about 2 years and no issues it even came with Nero lite.

Case is Taste/Style decision anything in a large mid to full tower will work the 4870 is long but at most you may lose a hard drive bay most of the time not.


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Awesome, that means nothing changes from my last list. Just gotta find a nice, cheapish case. In black!


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

Maybe?> http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15300


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks for all of that help. Here's how the final setup's looking, and it's within budget! (okay, $3.16 NZ over...) This is a final compatibility check if you could oblige.

*CPU:* Intel Core 2 Duo 8500
*GPU:* Sapphire Radeon 4870
*O/S:* Windows Vista Premium 64-bit (OEM)
*Sound Card:* Creative Sound Blaster Audigy (OEM)
*HDD:* Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB 10000 rpm
*Motherboard:* Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS*3P* (This is the only component that's changed)
*RAM:* 4 GB DDR2 RAM - Corsair Dominator TWIN2X4096-8500C5DF w/fan, 1066mhz
*Optical Drive:* Asus DRW-2014L1T DVD Writer
*Power Supply:* Corsair TX750
*Case:* Gigabyte GZ-X1


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## Wrench97 (May 10, 2008)

You look good to go.


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## videogamephreak (Dec 15, 2007)

That build is almost exactly what I ordered.


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Heh so it is. How're you going with yours?

Agh it's never easy. I just emailed the sales dude from the place I'm getting the parts from in Kiwiland. The guy said the following:

The Gigabyte mobo is unreliable, he recommended a P5Q-E ASUS mobo.

Also he said my CPU would probably need better cooling and suggested the following: an Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7 fan and a ThermalRight Ultra-120 Extreme CPU cooler.

Finally, the case may potentially not fit my video card and he recommended an NZXT Alpha.

What are your thoughts?
That's another $200ish NZ :S Is it worth it? I don't plan on overclocking anything, I just want parts with pretty solid base performance levels. And, will the NZXT case fit everything comfortably?
Thanks!


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

If all these parts are more expensive than your original choices, find another seller.

Since when has Gigabyte been an unreliable mobo manufacturer? They're one of the top names, very reliable.

All my friends and clients who use high-end CPUs use the stock cooling, which is perfectly adequate, especially if you're not going to be overclocking. I run complex CPU-intensive calculations on my CPU at 100%, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week with stock cooling. No problems at all.

Ask your seller what temperature the CPU would reach with the standard heatsink/fan, and ask why he thinks this is dangerously high enough to require the more expensive third party cooling.

"_the case may potentially not fit my video card_" - either it does or it doesn't. He should have accurate measurements for all parts before recommending an upgrade based on speculation.


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

So after much wrangling, here's what my final (I hope!) build looks like.
If you could give me your thoughts that'd be great. 

Will the case stay cool enough? 

Will the PSU fit the case?

Thanks a lot...

*Case:* Lian Li PC-A05B
*Motherboard:* Asus P5Q-E
*CPU:* Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz, 1333MHz FSB, Socket 775, Retail pack with fan
*HDD:* Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS HDD, 640GB, 7200rpm, 16MB Cache SATA-2
*Optical Drive:* Asus DRW-2014L1T DVD Writer, Internal, SATA, Black, Lightscribe
*Memory:* Corsair XMS2 DHX, TWIN2X4096-6400C4DHX, 2x2GB, DDR2-800, PC2-6400, CL4, DIMM
*Video Card:* Sapphire HD Radeon 4870, 512MB
*Sound Card:* Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE, 7.1, PCI, OEM
*Power Supply:* Corsair TX750 ATX PSU
*OS:* Windows Vista Premium 64-bit, DVD, OEM.
*Cooling:* Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7 (for LGA 775)


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

I googled the case and PSU part numbers and found plenty of systems using both, but you should still check with the seller before ordering. It's a large case (180mm x 388mm x 489mm) so there shouldn't be any problems, but the TX750 has a 140mm fan which is slightly larger than standard.

The Lian Li PC-A05B has front and rear fans (80mm and 120mm). Combined with your Arctic Cooling, the case will stay cool enough. Monitor the temperatures and voltages for the first few days and post back if you have any concerns.

Everything else looks good. :smile:


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Brilliant, thanks a lot. Now I just have to learn how to monitor temperatures and voltages


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## koala (Mar 27, 2005)

System monitors:
*Everest*
*SensorsView*
*SpeedFan*

Google all your parts to find their temperature limits. The voltages should be within 5% (eg. +12V should be between 11.4V and 12.6V under stress).


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## ignarukih (Aug 28, 2008)

Awesome, cheers!


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