# Entry Level Job for MIS Graduate



## Mis_graduate

Hi All,

I'll be graduating in May 2012 and have been offered interviews for positions as a developer, tech support engineer, systems analyst, and applications support analyst.

While I don't have any professional IT experience I have had a hard core curriculum and took extra lessons in programming. I will also be graduating cum laude.

Looking at my resume, what would you predict my first job after college would be in? I have a goal figure I'd like to start as but I don't want to be unrealistic then refuse the smaller offers and end up with nothing or accept a smaller offer when if I had held out could've gotten more, for instance as a business analyst vs entry tech support role. Actually not sure what starting hourly is analyst role but as app support I know its at $16 an hour.

Any help would be appreciated.

B.A. in Management Information Systems, 4.0/4.0 sem gpa, 3.5/4.0 cum gpa

• Systems Project: Hands-on experience with the Systems Development Life Cycle (SDLC), using CASE technology on an enterprise level from a project manager standpoint to programmer. Learned methodologies such as: Structured vs. Object-oriented designing, Logical Data Flow Diagrams, Cross-functional flow charts, Entity-Relationship diagrams, UML diagram, decision tables, as well as screen, form, and report layouts. The team designed a complete information system with the use of project mgmt documents, detailed process and data models, interface of the system, and plans for development/implementation.

• Relevant Courses: Systems Analysis, Networking, Business Systems Development/Intermediate Programming, Database Management, Business Intelligence, Enterprise Business Process Analysis, Operations Management, Account I/II, Statistical Analysis, Calculus for Business and Economics, Finance, Macro/MacroEcon, and Managing Information Technology, Intro to C# Programming

Key Skills
Software: MS Office, Excel, Access, PowerPoint
Languages: C#,
Visual Basic .NET, SQL
Web: FrontPage, MS Beta
HTML, XHTML, CSS
Programming: Visual Studio.Net, ADO.NET, Crystal Reports
Project Management: SharePoint, MS Project, MS Visio
Cloud: Office 365 Beta
CRM Software: Yardi, MRI, One Site, Real Page, AMSI
Other: Paint.net,
ADOBE Photoshop, ER Modeling, Databases
Relevant Experience

Computer Refurb Center
April 9, 2011 to Present
Computer Technician, Volunteer
• IT Infrastructures: Knowledge on computer components, security, how to upgrade and fix computers, how to identify parts and how to install hard drives, memory, software and operating systems. (Windows 7 and Intel Pentium 4)

Professional Experience
Property Management Co.
March 30, 2011- Present
Leasing Consultant
• Awards: Top Agent Award out of 60 (Sept. 2011), 1st Place Most Leases (Sept. 2011), 2nd Place Most Leases (Feb. 2012), 1st Place Most Reviewed (June 2011), Fair Housing Law Award, among the top 3 percentile. in a fast-paced, high traffic environment (Mar. 2011)
• Managed 12 unique, upscale properties within 3 months of employment and constantly gets requested back by firms due to flexibility, fast learning, and quick-thinking capabilities.
• Designed HTML advertising on Craigslist, usage of CRM software, and excel spreadsheets with SQL queries.

PROPERTY MANAGEMENT CO.
March 2008- July 2009
Leasing Consultant
• Recognized for fast-learning capabilities and quickly adapted to profession with no prior experience.
• Managed and maintained 642 units during take-over, rehabilitation and renovation, and lease-up phase.
• Consistently recognized for outstanding customer service skills and marketing deliverables.


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## BosonMichael

To be brutally honest, it doesn't sound like you know what you want to do. Being a developer is entirely and altogether different from being a technical support engineer.

I would recommend you apply for and interview for jobs that match what you want to be doing... not the job that is going to maximize your wallet. Working in IT for money generally does one thing: gets you burned out and feeling miserable about your job... yet you'll be chained to the paycheck. Working in IT doing something you absolutely love generally helps you to do well at what you're doing and, more importantly, gives you a great sense of accomplishment.


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## Mis_graduate

The point I was making in naming off several positions is that my qualifications seem to attract a number of positions. I am most interested in utilizing the technical skills I have gained through my curriculum but if big co A wants to hire me for a smaller role, I'd consider that, as with small co B for a big role, make sense? 

I think your first job after college is important because that determines your experience and skillsets mid-career but I don't mind starting low at a big company. I'm just curious to what most people with my degree and skills should expect salary and occupation-wise based on their own experiences and not asking what these positions entail.


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## BosonMichael

Mis_graduate said:


> The point I was making in naming off several positions is that my qualifications seem to attract a number of positions. I am most interested in utilizing the technical skills I have gained through my curriculum but if big co A wants to hire me for a smaller role, I'd consider that, as with small co B for a big role, make sense?
> 
> I think your first job after college is important because that determines your experience and skillsets mid-career but I don't mind starting low at a big company. I'm just curious to what most people with my degree and skills should expect salary and occupation-wise based on their own experiences and not asking what these positions entail.


I heard your point clearly. Yet it seems you entirely ignored mine. That's OK... no harm, no foul. Just pointing out that you can do any of the jobs, and you ought not focus so hard on maximizing your salary. But if salary's that important to you, by all means, go for it. Best I can do is raise the flag.

Entry-level salaries vary quite a bit based on area of the country and proximity to urban areas. So I'm not gonna be able to tell you that you should be making $x per year upon graduation... particularly with the employment climate the way it is at the moment, where it is an employer's market.

Degrees are not required for entry-level tech support, and a degree isn't going to help you jump up the tech support career ladder without experience. With the experience you have gained in the Computer Refurb Center, you would likely qualify for a position as a desktop support tech in a corporate domain environment. If money is a primary factor to you - and it sounds like it is, despite my previous post's warning - then this is probably not the career path for you; although you can build a lucrative career down the line, it's not a great money maker early on.

Of the positions you described, I would guess that you will get the highest starting salary as a developer. 

So... with all that in mind, why don't you interview for ALL of those jobs, see what is involved in each, determine which ones you might enjoy doing, and *if* you get offered a job, determine whether the salary is acceptable to you? That's my advice to you.

I wish you success in your career.


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## Mis_graduate

Thank you for your comprehensive response. Money is not the determining factor in my career, stability and progression are. As an upcoming graduate, I just don't want to have burned thousands of dollars on college then having trouble paying it back by accepting my first job offer when based on my qualifications I should have held out and gotten more

My target hourly is not even $20/hr to be happy so accepting a lesser paying job wouldn't be bad with yearly progression. I'm just afraid of being labeled one particular role after accepting the first job. The fact is, I don't know the realities of each job and employers always make them sound warm and fuzzy when it could really be chaotic. So that is why I chose those determining factors. How did you make your entry level job decision? And which is more important to you, company or position?


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## BosonMichael

Mis_graduate said:


> Thank you for your comprehensive response. Money is not the determining factor in my career, stability and progression are. As an upcoming graduate, I just don't want to have burned thousands of dollars on college then having trouble paying it back by accepting my first job offer when based on my qualifications I should have held out and gotten more


In my opinion, it wouldn't be wise to play the "hold out for more money" option in this job market. Competition for entry-level IT jobs is incredibly fierce, as the job market is currently flooded with people switching careers to a career field they see as more stable and lucrative. 

I don't want to see you have trouble paying back your loan because you took less than you should have... but I also don't want to see you have trouble paying back your loan because you wanted more when you should have taken less. It's a double-edged sword.

To find out what jobs are paying in your area, you're gonna have to dig for it. Do research. See what those jobs are paying. Find out a good ballpark estimate of what you should expect. And note that all four of those positions are likely to have different starting ranges; a junior programmer position is going to pay differently than a help desk tech.

Personally, as long as I am given an offer that I believe is fair and is a salary that I could survive on, I wouldn't worry about "what I could have gotten". In fact, that's how I approached my IT career. I started out at $11/hr, and 14 years later, I'm making significantly more than that. Ultimately, it didn't matter what I started at. While working in my first IT job, I was offered another one making $35K per year (approx $17/hr). Things progressed upward from there. But had I not accepted the first job at $11/hr, I never would have ended up where I am today.



Mis_graduate said:


> My target hourly is not even $20/hr to be happy so accepting a lesser paying job wouldn't be bad with yearly progression. I'm just afraid of being labeled one particular role after accepting the first job. The fact is, I don't know the realities of each job and employers always make them sound warm and fuzzy when it could really be chaotic. So that is why I chose those determining factors. How did you make your entry level job decision? And which is more important to you, company or position?


You can't count on yearly progression. Many employers have frozen salaries due to the poor economy. When the economy turns around, yes, you are likely to see salary increases... but please, don't count on it as something that HAS to happen, or you're liable to be disappointed at some point in the next 40-50 years of your career.

You're eventually going to be labeled with one particular role. Programmers don't typically administer servers. Server administrators don't typically program (or if they do, it's extremely basic scripts, though I never did as an admin). You need to find out what you enjoy doing. If that means taking one entry-level job and finding out whether you love it or hate it, so be it. That's what internships provide - a way to find out whether you like a job. Aren't you working in tech support now? Do you like it?

Further, ANY of those career paths could land you in companies that are either chaotic or stable... it all depends on the company and the people in charge of the company. You're not going to have a clue until you interview... and you're not going to know for SURE until you work there (or until you ask another employee who is willing to volunteer that information honestly).

As far as whether the career fields themselves are stable... well, to be honest, all IT jobs are becoming more and more mobile and, other than physically putting your hands on a piece of equipment, the jobs can usually be done anywhere. This obviously brings up the danger of job outsourcing. But ya know what? There's nothing much that you can do about that. If a company wants to hire cheap foreign labor, they're gonna do it. Best thing you can do is not give them a reason to look elsewhere by 1) working for a wage that is fair to both you and the company and 2) by doing a good job.

How did I make my entry-level job decision? I couldn't program anything other than BASIC (not VB... just BASIC), so the programming field wasn't really open to me unless I learned something more advanced. My degree was in Chemistry. After applying for dozens of jobs(and finding only one local opportunity where I could wash out test tubes for $12/hr), I had lunch with a friend who had gotten a job as a sales rep for an IT service company. He said there were positions available, and since I had been the go-to "computer guy" at my job for 6 years, I interviewed there. After a couple of weeks, they offered me the job. Even though the position paid $1/hr less than the test tube washer job, I felt it offered more opportunity to prove myself and to grow. So, in that respect, the opportunity was more important than the money, and that's why I give the advice I do.

Is company or position more important? Both are important. I don't want to work for a company that makes poor decisions or for/with people I don't like or can't get along with... and I don't want to work in a position doing things I am miserable doing. So both are important factors to me. 

As I mentioned earlier, money is less important than company or position to me. Even though I have been a senior network administrator, I currently write IT practice exams for a living. I could probably make a boatload of money travelling around the country working with Cisco gear all day, but would that make me happier than what I do now? Hard to say, but I know this for certain: I absolutely love what I do. And it's not something I planned to be doing when I started out. You never know what will happen.

My experiences shape the advice I currently provide, and those experiences are why I say that you should do what you enjoy doing, regardless of career field stability or money. Those who do what they love tend to excel at what they do _simply because they love what they're doing_! And it is these people who will get promoted past those who do a job simply because it is stable or pays well. So my advice is the same as I gave you in my first post: do what you enjoy, and the money is more likely to come.


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## Dude_Abides

BosonMichael said:


> In my opinion, it wouldn't be wise to play the "hold out for more money" option in this job market. Competition for entry-level IT jobs is incredibly fierce, as the job market is currently flooded with people switching careers to a career field they see as more stable and lucrative.
> 
> I don't want to see you have trouble paying back your loan because you took less than you should have... but I also don't want to see you have trouble paying back your loan because you wanted more when you should have taken less. It's a double-edged sword.
> 
> To find out what jobs are paying in your area, you're gonna have to dig for it. Do research. See what those jobs are paying. Find out a good ballpark estimate of what you should expect. And note that all four of those positions are likely to have different starting ranges; a junior programmer position is going to pay differently than a help desk tech.
> 
> Personally, as long as I am given an offer that I believe is fair and is a salary that I could survive on, I wouldn't worry about "what I could have gotten". In fact, that's how I approached my IT career. I started out at $11/hr, and 14 years later, I'm making significantly more than that. Ultimately, it didn't matter what I started at. While working in my first IT job, I was offered another one making $35K per year (approx $17/hr). Things progressed upward from there. But had I not accepted the first job at $11/hr, I never would have ended up where I am today.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't count on yearly progression. Many employers have frozen salaries due to the poor economy. When the economy turns around, yes, you are likely to see salary increases... but please, don't count on it as something that HAS to happen, or you're liable to be disappointed at some point in the next 40-50 years of your career.
> 
> You're eventually going to be labeled with one particular role. Programmers don't typically administer servers. Server administrators don't typically program (or if they do, it's extremely basic scripts, though I never did as an admin). You need to find out what you enjoy doing. If that means taking one entry-level job and finding out whether you love it or hate it, so be it. That's what internships provide - a way to find out whether you like a job. Aren't you working in tech support now? Do you like it?
> 
> Further, ANY of those career paths could land you in companies that are either chaotic or stable... it all depends on the company and the people in charge of the company. You're not going to have a clue until you interview... and you're not going to know for SURE until you work there (or until you ask another employee who is willing to volunteer that information honestly).
> 
> As far as whether the career fields themselves are stable... well, to be honest, all IT jobs are becoming more and more mobile and, other than physically putting your hands on a piece of equipment, the jobs can usually be done anywhere. This obviously brings up the danger of job outsourcing. But ya know what? There's nothing much that you can do about that. If a company wants to hire cheap foreign labor, they're gonna do it. Best thing you can do is not give them a reason to look elsewhere by 1) working for a wage that is fair to both you and the company and 2) by doing a good job.
> 
> How did I make my entry-level job decision? I couldn't program anything other than BASIC (not VB... just BASIC), so the programming field wasn't really open to me unless I learned something more advanced. My degree was in Chemistry. After applying for dozens of jobs(and finding only one local opportunity where I could wash out test tubes for $12/hr), I had lunch with a friend who had gotten a job as a sales rep for an IT service company. He said there were positions available, and since I had been the go-to "computer guy" at my job for 6 years, I interviewed there. After a couple of weeks, they offered me the job. Even though the position paid $1/hr less than the test tube washer job, I felt it offered more opportunity to prove myself and to grow. So, in that respect, the opportunity was more important than the money, and that's why I give the advice I do.
> 
> Is company or position more important? Both are important. I don't want to work for a company that makes poor decisions or for/with people I don't like or can't get along with... and I don't want to work in a position doing things I am miserable doing. So both are important factors to me.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, money is less important than company or position to me. Even though I have been a senior network administrator, I currently write IT practice exams for a living. I could probably make a boatload of money travelling around the country working with Cisco gear all day, but would that make me happier than what I do now? Hard to say, but I know this for certain: I absolutely love what I do. And it's not something I planned to be doing when I started out. You never know what will happen.
> 
> My experiences shape the advice I currently provide, and those experiences are why I say that you should do what you enjoy doing, regardless of career field stability or money. Those who do what they love tend to excel at what they do _simply because they love what they're doing_! And it is these people who will get promoted past those who do a job simply because it is stable or pays well. So my advice is the same as I gave you in my first post: do what you enjoy, and the money is more likely to come.


Enjoyed reading the input. Good post.


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## greenbrucelee

experience first, money later.

If you enjoy what you do and are good at what you do then the money will come.

A big mistake graduates make is thinking that because they have a degree they are entitled to a good job with good money regardless of whether they have experience or not. This is mistake I made until Michael gave me some good advice.

In todays climate with jobs someone who has experience and no qualifications will trump someone in an interview over someone with qualifications and no experience.

If you want to be a programmer do some coding and create a portfolio, that will be more impressive to an employer than showing what marks you got in your degree for programming in C or whatever language you used.


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