# Computer was fine! Now, Suddenly lagging like crazy.



## Clovis_B

So, to start with, some basic data that I figure I should provide -

4gig's of Ram. nVidia 8500GT card. Got the computer little over a year ago. Worked like a charm up until a week ago. Could handle WoW on Ultra Graphics and what not. Never got a virus. The only problems I suffered was:

1: An annoying, concerning 'Grinding' sound coming from the power source fan. Most often than not, this was resolved with a firm but gentle 'thump' to the back of the computer.

And that was it. Then suddenly, out of nowhere, a week ago, the computer started to experience -massive- lag on all of my video games. When the games were off? Everything was fine.

Usually, if I toned the settings down, the game would play without problems for about...5 minutes. Then experience 20 seconds to 60 seconds of lag. Is a cycle of sorts. Now, I've tried -everything- under the sun short of spending money - Because I have no money to spend, and won't have money to spend on this until later in the year. I've tried:

1: Opening up the computer and cleaning it out
2: Avast, Malwarebytes, and Window's Defender scans.
3: Defrag
4: Update Drivers
5: Disk Cleanup
6: Crying
( Haven't done this yet, considering it.) 7: System Restore a month back. (Last resort to rule out any software issues, I suppose.)

No changes.

Short of doing a system restore to an earlier date, I'm running out of ideas. Any suggestions?


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## Zealex

Hello Clovis_B, welcome to the forum :wave:

To start, let's get all your system specs. Please download *system spec* and run it. Go to file and hit 'Save to CSV'. Save the file to your desktop, then open it. Copy everything in the file and post it back here.

Open the side of your computer tower and look for a boxy component. Look for the sticker and take down the make, model, size (watts) and number of amps on the 12vrail(s). Your PSU should look similar to this:









Download *SIW* and run it. Go to hardware then sensors. Take your temperatures and voltages while idle, then while in-game till' you experience lag. Once you get this lag, minimize(do not close the program as this will lower the temperatures giving us inaccurate information to work with) and take down your voltages and temperatures again. You can also screenshot it while idle and understress and uploading using a free image hosting site such as *imageshack*.


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## Clovis_B

Whew. This has been a handful. Ok. Here we go....



Code:


Windows: Microsoft Windows VISTA, Version 6.0.6002 Service Pack 2
Internet Explorer: 7.0.6002.18005
Memory (RAM): 4095 MB
CPU Info: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E8400  @ 3.00GHz
CPU Speed: 3046.1 MHz
Sound Card: Speakers (VIA High Definition A
Display Adapters: NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT | NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT | RDPDD Chained DD | RDP Encoder Mirror Driver
Monitors: 1x; Dell SE198WFP(Analog) | 
Screen Resolution: 1440 X 900 - 32 bit
Network: Network Present
Network Adapters: Atheros AR8121/AR8113/AR8114 PCI-E Ethernet Controller
CD / DVD Drives: D: HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR-H30N | E: Optiarc DVD RW AD-7200A
COM Ports: NOT Present
LPT Ports: LPT1
Mouse: 3 Button Wheel Mouse Present
Hard Disks: C:  465.8GB
Hard Disks - Free: C:  261.0GB
USB Controllers: 5 host controllers.
Firewire (1394): Not Detected
PCMCIA (Laptops): Not Installed
Manufacturer: American Megatrends Inc.
Product Make: System Product Name
AC Power Status: OnLine
BIOS Info: |  |
Time Zone: Eastern Standard Time
Battery: No Battery
Motherboard: ASUSTeK Computer INC. P5KPL-CM
Modem: Not detected
:

The Power Source was the harder part for me. Here's the info I could get....

Model: IC-PSU-US-2545-DW
Size: 450W
Voltage: 115/230V
Current: 10/5A

This was while Idle.



Code:


Sensor	Value	Min	Max
IBUYPOWER
Winbond W83627DHG
Voltages
CPU VCORE	1.18 V	1.18 V	1.27 V
VIN1	1.79 V	1.78 V	1.80 V
+3.3V	3.26 V	3.26 V	3.26 V
VIN5	1.55 V	1.55 V	4.68 V
+12V	8.59 V	8.59 V	8.64 V
VIN5	1.55 V	1.55 V	4.68 V
VIN6	1.20 V	1.19 V	1.20 V
Temperatures
SYSTIN	30 °C  (85 °F)	30 °C  (85 °F)	30 °C  (85 °F)
CPUTIN	28 °C  (82 °F)	28 °C  (82 °F)	35 °C  (94 °F)
AUXTIN	65 °C  (148 °F)	65 °C  (148 °F)	65 °C  (148 °F)
Fans
CPUFANIN0	3183 RPM	3125 RPM	3199 RPM
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400
Temperatures
Core #0	28 °C  (82 °F)	28 °C  (82 °F)	32 °C  (89 °F)
Core #1	24 °C  (75 °F)	24 °C  (75 °F)	29 °C  (84 °F)
NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT
Temperatures
GPU Core	90 °C  (193 °F)	89 °C  (192 °F)	90 °C  (193 °F)
Hitachi HDP725050GLA360
Temperatures
Assembly	29 °C  (84 °F)	29 °C  (84 °F)	29 °C  (84 °F)


This was while playing WoW at Ultra graphics - My computer used to be able to handle these graphic settings with no lag.



Code:


Sensor	Value	Min	Max
IBUYPOWER
Winbond W83627DHG
Voltages
CPU VCORE	1.18 V	1.18 V	1.29 V
VIN1	1.79 V	1.78 V	1.80 V
+3.3V	3.26 V	3.23 V	3.26 V
VIN5	1.56 V	1.54 V	4.68 V
+12V	8.64 V	8.53 V	8.64 V
VIN5	1.56 V	1.54 V	4.68 V
VIN6	1.21 V	1.19 V	1.21 V
Temperatures
SYSTIN	31 °C  (87 °F)	30 °C  (85 °F)	31 °C  (87 °F)
CPUTIN	28 °C  (82 °F)	28 °C  (82 °F)	35 °C  (94 °F)
AUXTIN	65 °C  (148 °F)	65 °C  (148 °F)	65 °C  (148 °F)
Fans
CPUFANIN0	3183 RPM	3068 RPM	3199 RPM
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400
Temperatures
Core #0	28 °C  (82 °F)	28 °C  (82 °F)	32 °C  (89 °F)
Core #1	24 °C  (75 °F)	24 °C  (75 °F)	31 °C  (87 °F)
NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT
Temperatures
GPU Core	120 °C  (247 °F)	89 °C  (192 °F)	130 °C  (265 °F)
Hitachi HDP725050GLA360
Temperatures
Assembly	29 °C  (84 °F)	29 °C  (84 °F)	29 °C  (84 °F)


That's all I got. Thanks for any help you can provide guys.


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## koala

Your PSU is struggling to power the graphics card. Its +12V reading is only 8.6V. It should be around 12.0V (+/-5%).

Your graphics card temperature is 90C idle and 120C at full load. It should be below 70C at full load and the +12V stay within the 11.4-12.6V range, so you can see how far off the scale it is. The rest of your temperatures are ok.

Check the graphics card fan to see if it's free of dust and spinning.

Confirm the +12V by looking in BIOS, then replace the PSU with a good quality 550W and check the temperatrues and voltages again.

The graphics card might already be damaged by the heat and lack of power and need to be replaced, so you might want to test it in another computer before spending any money on the new PSU.


EDIT: Sorry Zealex, didn't see you there. We must have been posting at the same time. At least we agree on the cause of the problem. :grin:


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## Zealex

Your GPU core while gaming is extremely high, 120c is frying the poor thing. 

You need a new PSU no doubt. Your Voltages for the 12v are WAYYYY out of the safe zone. Go into the bios and check your voltages please and write them down. I want to be 100% sure before I recommend you a new PSU. 

Usually I would say to dust your computer, but I believe this is just a PSU issue. If the PSU is the issue it can cause heat problems as well.


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## Clovis_B

Zealex said:


> Your GPU core while gaming is extremely high, 120c is frying the poor thing.
> 
> You need a new PSU no doubt. Your Voltages for the 12v are WAYYYY out of the safe zone. Go into the bios and check your voltages please and write them down. I want to be 100% sure before I recommend you a new PSU.
> 
> Usually I would say to dust your computer, but I believe this is just a PSU issue. If the PSU is the issue it can cause heat problems as well.


I don't really know how to check BIOS. =/ I'll go look it up on Google and get back to you.


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## Zealex

You probably already have damage. Do you have an IBUYPOWER? Brands like IBUYPOWER, cyberpower are terrible, I personally believe they are the worst prebuilts. I've seen dell's and HP do okay, but cyberpower and IBUYPOWER just plain out cheap out on their parts. I have only heard bad things about them.

Double check the 12vrail in the bios, if it confirmed the voltages are out of the safe zone, you will need a new PSU, otherwises try to avoid using that computer.


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## koala

It could die any time now. 120C and 8.6V are way outside the safe zone and could cause permanent damage to the rest of your computer.

Backup any important data you've got on your hard drive (this is also powered by your weak +12V line) and don't put any extra stress (games, videos, etc) on the computer until you can get the PSU replaced.

If your motherboard has onboard graphics, remove the graphics card and use the onboard instead, but only for basic things like office apps and web browsing.


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## Clovis_B

Yeah, I have an Ibuypower. Twas a graduation present, so I didn't really have much say in the matter. It worked fine for about a year and a half now but...


*Sighs* This is so depressing. I don't have another computer I can use either. I'm stuck with this mess, and inbetween my school fee's, I won't have the money for a new one for well, a long time.


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## Clovis_B

Zealex said:


> You probably already have damage. Do you have an IBUYPOWER? Brands like IBUYPOWER, cyberpower are terrible, I personally believe they are the worst prebuilts. I've seen dell's and HP do okay, but cyberpower and IBUYPOWER just plain out cheap out on their parts. I have only heard bad things about them.
> 
> Double check the 12vrail in the bios, if it confirmed the voltages are out of the safe zone, you will need a new PSU, otherwises try to avoid using that computer.


Oh, I looked at something else, but to be blunt, I had no idea what it meant.

AC Input / DC Output

+5v +3.3V +12V -5V -12V +5VSB
40A 28A 20A 0.5A 0.8A 2.0A


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## Zealex

If you use your onboard chip (assuming you have one) you can get a lower wattage PSU which will be cheaper. You will have to put aside your gaming, but least you will have a computer.



Koala said:


> EDIT: Sorry Zealex, didn't see you there. We must have been posting at the same time. At least we agree on the cause of the problem. :grin:


 Minds think alike =P?


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## koala

20A for +12V means the PSU should never have been installed in a computer that has a PCIE graphics card like your GeForce 8500GT. No wonder the readings are so bad.

20A is only enough for older AGP cards, not the more power-hungry PCIE.

If the computer is still under warranty, send it back to be fixed.


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## Clovis_B

I'm gonna start looking into a new PSU soon. Can I find anything decent in the 50 to 75 dollar range? I'd really rather not spend too much money on it if I can, since I'm strapped for cash as is.

Also, do you think my graphics card is fried? Or will it start working normally once I put in a new PSU? Can I replace my PSU myself? Or will I need a professional? (Which will also cost money. -_-)


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## koala

No way of knowing if the card is fried until you test it in a computer with a suitable PSU.

Replacing the PSU is easy enough. Just make a note of where the cables are connected from your current PSU and make the same connections with the new one. There are 4 screws at the back of the case holding it in position. Remove these and it will slide out.

Best value for money, good quality PSU - Corsair 550W - $70 (85% efficiency, 41A/+12V)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004

Cheaper PSUs like the Gigabyte 550W are not quite as good - $60 (80% efficiency, 2x18A/+12V)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010


Typical newegg customer review for the Corsair 550W:


> Pros: Every connector you could ever need. VERY quiet fan. I'm running 2 HDD's, a dual core processor, PCI video card, a few case fans, and 2 DVD-R drives without any issue (as would be expected). One of my buddies referred me to Johnny Guru who gives a top-notch appraisal of this unit:
> 
> Cons: I didn't suck it up and buy a good power supply years ago.
> 
> Other Thoughts: I must have bought no less than 7 or 8 cheap power supplies in the last decade. Every time one went out, I rushed down to <insert generic computer parts store compatible with newegg's review policy> to buy the budget $30 everyday low price, everyday low quality power supply. This time when the original power supply that came with the case died on me, I thought I'd see what the expensive power supplies were all about. My conclusion: "they're worth it."


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## Clovis_B

The gigabyte's 20 dollars cheaper and it sounds like a reliable psu. I'm sure the Corsair is great, but the deal is, I really can't toss around the money like that. As long as the Gigabyte manages to last me...two or three years, long enough for me to save up for a new computer, than that's all that matters.

Thanks for the input and the links. I appreciate it.

The gigabyte -would- be able to handle my specs, unlike the current PSU, right?


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## koala

It's only $10 cheaper after the rebate. Personally, I'd go for the one with the higher efficiency rating and single high amp +12V line for maximum stability, lower system temperatures and longer life.

The Corsair comes with a 5 year warranty. The Gigabyte (and other similar cheaper units) comes with a 1 year warranty, so no guarantees that it will last 2 or 3 years, but it's definitely a huge improvement over your current PSU.


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## Clovis_B

I know this has been answered, but I was curious...

Is there anything else I can do to be sure that it's the PSU? A friend said that if my PSU was really incapable of powering my Graphics card, It'd turn off.


Also, I've had this computer for two years....Why -now-?


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## koala

The power output from all PSUs deteriorates over time, especially when put under stress by components it's not strong enough to handle safely.

Your friend is partly right. Running in desktop mode (browsing the internet or running office apps, for example) is not as demanding as running fullscreen games, so unless you're constantly monitoring the voltages and temperatures while gaming, you don't notice the problem until it's too late, when your graphics card gets fried.

20A is only enough for older AGP cards or onboard graphics. PCIE cards like your 8500GT need a minimum of 28A. Good quality PSUs that are used in PCIE systems usually have over 40A.

With your PSU not providing enough amps for a PCIE card, and the +12V reading being so far outside the accepted safe range of 11.4-12.6V, this means the PSU is unsuitable and could have caused permanent damage to the graphics card.

Test the card and PSU in another computer to confirm, or take the computer to your local PC repair shop.


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## Clovis_B

Hmm. Could I somehow reduce the energy needs of my card in the meantime? Till I have the money for all of this?

IE: Like, how people overclock their cards. Can it be under...clocked? >.>

Would something like that even work?


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## koala

Your PSU is only providing 20A on the +12V line. Your PCIE graphics card needs a minimum of 28A.

If the card doesn't get enough power, it lags and crashes. Eventually it can lead to permanent damage.

The only way to increase the power that the card is getting is to install a more suitable PSU.

You can't increase the PSU's amps by underclocking the card.


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## Clovis_B

Hey guys. It's uh. It's been a while.

After a long time, I finally have the disposable income needed to fix this power supply. I've been avoiding gaming and the like since then.

I was hoping, since I'm really not good at this sort of stuff...can anyone make some suggestions for which power supply to buy? In the 50 to 70 dollar range? Ideally, something I can find at a store like Best Buy or CompUSA.

Sorry for all the trouble, and thanks for all the help, really.


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## Clovis_B

EDIT: The main issue for me is that, while it's easy to just pick the best looking one...I really don't know what's important when picking my PSU out. Will everything fit well? What if it has a fan on the top of it - with my computer chassis in the way? Do I only care about my +12V Rails? How many do I need? Is 41A a good number? (And what does it even mean?) Stupid, stupid questions? Yes. But I am utterly clueless when it comes to this stuff. Sorry. =/

(Double post because of edit time limit.)


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## shotgn

I would call and check, some prices differ online than in store, but at compusa it shows the corsair 550w at 84.99 and the 650w at 89.99, there is a $10 rebate on both of them


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## Clovis_B

shotgn said:


> I would call and check, some prices differ online than in store, but at compusa it shows the corsair 550w at 84.99 and the 650w at 89.99, there is a $10 rebate on both of them


With a price difference like that I may as well just get the strongest one right? Or will an overly strong PSU do as much damage as an overly weak one?


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## koala

BestBuy doesn't have any PSUs in your price range that are suitable for your computer, and they are all way more expensive than online stores like newegg or tigerdirect. See their $50-99 PSU list here: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemp...terSP&sp=+currentprice+skuid&usc=abcat0500000

The only PSU under $70 at BestBuy is the Thermaltake 500W which has a low 70% efficiency rating (you need over 80%). This same PSU is available online for $30 after rebate with free shipping - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153113

If you can increase your budget by $10, you can get one of the best PSUs available, the Corsair 650W, for $80 after rebate plus $2 shipping (reduced from $120) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

BestBuy have the Corsair 650W for $100.




Clovis B said:


> Or will an overly strong PSU do as much damage as an overly weak one?


No, it won't do any harm at all. The computer will only use the power it needs, so it's better to have more available. 550W with 40A on the +12V line is what you should be looking for. Anything higher than this is a bonus.

The only reason I'm recommending a 650W instead of a 550W is that the price difference is an extra $5-10 which is a great bargain. If you should around, you quite often find 650W units on offer going for the same price as 550W units.


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## Clovis_B

koala said:


> BestBuy doesn't have any PSUs in your price range that are suitable for your computer, and they are all way more expensive than online stores like newegg or tigerdirect. See their $50-99 PSU list here: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemp...terSP&sp=+currentprice+skuid&usc=abcat0500000
> 
> The only PSU under $70 at BestBuy is the Thermaltake 500W which has a low 70% efficiency rating (you need over 80%). This same PSU is available online for $30 after rebate with free shipping - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153113
> 
> If you can increase your budget by $10, you can get one of the best PSUs available, the Corsair 650W, for $80 after rebate plus $2 shipping (reduced from $120) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
> 
> BestBuy have the Corsair 650W for $100.


Alright! I'll go for it, I'll try and get the Corsair online, but failing that, I'll just dish out the money to BestBuy. I still have a ton of pointless and horribly stupid questions, but I think I'm done bugging you guys. (Omgwhatswiththefanontopofit)

Again, really, thank you guys for dealing with me.


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## shotgn

Compusa has corsairs in store as well


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## koala

If there's anything you're not sure about, ask all the questions you want (even stupid ones :grin before spending any money, and we'll try to help.


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## Clovis_B

Hey guys, I recently did the upgrade my PSU, to the Corsair 650. I was hoping that would fix my issues and get my graphics quality back it what it once was...But no dice.

I'm saving up for a new graphics card. I really really hope that's the only problem and I'll be done with this mess soon.

The random FPS drops really are terrible and make gaming impossible.

My new PSU gives me 650watts. There should be no power problems anymore. It runs very quiet. I am pleased with this purchase.

Is the terrible FPS the end result of my card just being fried? It sucks hard - Even with that crappy Nvidia 8500 GT, I used to be able to play WoW on High/Ultra and Oblivion on Medium/High with little to no lag. What gives? How much more money do I need to sink into this? T_T


New thread started: http://www.techsupportforum.com/f24/think-my-graphics-card-died-521347.html


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