# Bathroom remodel, so far....



## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Been working my way through the house. I'm in the midst of a bathroom remodel. Last weekend I textured the room, so now finishes can finally go in. Got the lid painted and trimmed, along with some quick and dirty trim around the windows. 

There's half the room not in the picture as its the shower, and water closet. My omni present oscillating fan. :grin:











A couple of weeks ago I picked up a mosaic for the actual shower floor itself. I was performing a soak test in the shower pan, and did the same for a sample of these tiles. This was my last chance to make sure this doesn't leak even a drop. No problems. 










I went to a friends shop today to see what he had for stone to finish the walls. I picked a sample(18x18 travertine), brought it home, and compared it to the tile I picked for the shower floor. I'll call this a dead on match for sure. This was really exciting because it's the last major piece of the puzzle for this bathroom.










It's nice to get on the downhill side of this one. I had gutted the kitchen, and putting in a new one seemed far easier than this. This is a relatively small bathroom(96 sq/ft), and I'm trying to pack every feature possible into this small space. This weekend I'll set shower floor, install the cabinets, frame the counter, install the CBU on the floor, lay the floor heat, and level it. Then it's a 3 day weekend to setup the wetsaw and start tiling. :thumb:


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Got a nice tub for it ? Women want fancy tubs.

BG


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

We decided in the beginning, no tub in this bathroom. We've always had one, and never use it. Because of the limited space, we focused on the shower, and countertop/storage space.


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

I understand, but you probably won't own the place forever, most younger people don't.
Got to look at resale and basic tube/shower to most women will be important.

One of the big reason we bought this house, the wife loved the tub (jetted). She would have never wanted the house without a tube, in the master bath. Women love baths !

BG


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

I would second that. Even if _your_ wife/SO doesn't want a tub, a _very_ large percentage of women will. The lack of one could damage the resale value of your house by far more than the cost of installing one now.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

I appreciate the advice, but there's nothing that'll convince me that this bathroom needs a tub. We don't want one in here, so I won't waste the floorspace.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Looking good so far, great match on the tile/stone. That's one of the hardest things to find unless you manage to get everything from on manufacturer. 

On the tub/no tub question, I've always thought that unless the purpose of the remodel is to put the house on the market, you should build or remodel for yourself, not for what someone else may want in the future.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

^^^^

Agree.....installing a tub is nothing but speculation for future sale of the house. Not everyone is concerned with resale......I could care less and do not intend on selling after being in the same house for 25yrs. I have 2 tubs W/showers.......the tubs are only for the amusement of the g-kids in their efforts to outdo each other attempting to drain a 120gal water heater. Trust me, they can do it......:sigh:

I haven't used the tubs in my house for anything other than to catch the water while taking a shower......got better things to do other than lay in a tub and waste water. 

The type of shower Sparky is installing is today's trend.......might actually increase the resale value. The only thing I can think of is to at least have a bench for the wife to shave her legs.


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Yes do what you want, but be advised a woman taste changes with age. What she wants today, may not be acceptable tomorrow. Been there.

If you are younger this may not be your last house, so resale needs to be in the back of your mind, won't be in hers.

BG


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

kendallt said:


> Looking good so far, great match on the tile/stone. That's one of the hardest things to find unless you manage to get everything from on manufacturer.
> 
> On the tub/no tub question, I've always thought that unless the purpose of the remodel is to put the house on the market, you should build or remodel for yourself, not for what someone else may want in the future.


It took a month of searching to decide on the material, and find the right colors. It was a relief to find two materials that matched so perfectly. Patience is an asset with any DIY project. Over time, problems succumb to persistence. 

Our attitude towards improvements sounds similar to yours. We're doing it the way we want it, and know it can't be changed later on a whim.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

SABL said:


> ^^^^
> 
> Agree.....installing a tub is nothing but speculation for future sale of the house. Not everyone is concerned with resale......I could care less and do not intend on selling after being in the same house for 25yrs. I have 2 tubs W/showers.......the tubs are only for the amusement of the g-kids in their efforts to outdo each other attempting to drain a 120gal water heater. Trust me, they can do it......:sigh:
> 
> ...


Yeah, I put the bench in for her. LOL


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

She'll like it......:laugh:

I'm getting ready to get my main bath back in order......after many years. My plumber didn't double up the wax seal for the toilet and by the time symptoms developed it was too late to save the floor. The seepage was under the tile......:sigh:. I even had to remove the cast iron tub to make repairs. When I traded houses with a son he was supposed to finish the bathroom.....didn't happen. 

I'm taking inventory of what can be used and what needs to be purchased......and am not a happy camper. Seems while I was away the lav and faucet got pitched out......and I can't find the escutcheon for the tub controls.......:banghead:

What would have been a simple tile job for the shower has become more expensive.......:nonono:. Countertop was a planned replacement due to eliminating one cabinet and relocating the toilet.......replacing the oval sink and faucet pretty much tripled the job cost. At leat I found a replacement escutcheon......:thumb:


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Why would you use a double wax seal on a toilet ? Must have had a really thick floor.

BG


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

I hope the rebuild goes smooth for you. Saving that escutcheon definitely saved you a lot of money in plumbing if a replacement couldn't be found.

If the floor is coming up, consider radiant floor heat. They consume about 10W/sq ft in their installed area. Even though electric heat isn't the most economical, they can pay off in the long run as supplemental zone heat. The controllers/stats that run the systems are pretty sophisticated now. Who likes cold floors in the bathroom anyway?


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Basementgeek said:


> Why would you use a double wax seal on a toilet ? Must have had a really thick floor.
> 
> BG


I know out here its common to install a second ring after a tile floor has been added. Since the original closet flange stays at subfloor elevation, and finished floor is raised due to the tile, the second ring makes up the difference.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

1/4" underlayment and ceramic floor.......thick floor. Once the flange has been set it's hard to raise......need a little extra seal. 3/4" finish floor is more than a standard seal will cover.....my plumber taught me well with his mistake.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Was the underlayment mortared down to the subfloor?


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Talk about being slow.....:facepalm:. I missed both of Sparky's posts......:rofl:

Too late on the heat in the floor......I replaced the floor years ago to get the toilet installed. No way I'll be stuck with a single toilet and a housefull of kids......leads to anxious moments after morning coffee.....:uhoh:

I found a replacement escutcheon......can have it shipped to Home Depot for free......$16. I would be really peeved if I had to open the wall back up and replace the whole tub/shower control......:angry:. Bad enough a perfectly good lav and faucet went to the landfill.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Vegassparky said:


> Was the underlayment mortared down to the subfloor?


Not the original.....it was standard for the time. 1/4" luane...or however you spell it. Just plenty of fasteners to get it down. I replaced the original subfloor with Advantech.......well worth the small additional cost.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

The Advantech should outlast all of us. Good stuff.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

I like it!! When I built I spec'd T&G plywood.....no OSB for me. I did use it for roof sheathing, though. If I built again it would be Advantech for all subflooring. I also spec'd Hem-fir for framing.....supplier said it would cost $5 more per 100 bf.....I said, "so what?"......:rofl:


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Vegas, if you decide to put heated floors, whether it's for a basement or washroom, does that eliminate the need for heating the room with, say, baseboard heaters or convectors?


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

These in floor electric systems can't efficiently replace your primary heating source. What they can do is allow your primary heating system setpoint to be set lower without much of a perceived difference in comfort. This can reduce overall heating costs if the supplemental electric heat usage is managed correctly. For example, if a homes primary home heating system setpoint is 65°f, that may feel too cool to most after a morning shower, so the primary heating setpoint will either be raised, or another form of supplemental heating will be utilized(ie: fan forced electric). By specifically warming the floor, with a system that uses a fraction of the energy of the other options, the primary heating setpoint can remain lower without a reduction in comfort. 

The latest floor heat controllers can be set to run off of time schedules, occupancy, ambient room air temp, actual floor temp, or combinations of all those conditions. That degree of control is what enables energy efficient operation.

If you get into hydronic heating systems(circulated water), they can be used as efficient primary heating systems, but initial costs are relatively high.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

What kind of tradesman would a homeowner call to jnstall heater floors? A tilesman or an electrician?


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Tile setters will typically install these systems because of the floor prep, and finish. Your local area may require an electrician to do the work, so you'd have to check with a local building dept to be sure.

The systems are DIY friendly if you are going to be doing the floor yourself.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

I won't go into the details, but the travertine for the bathroom was offered as a gift. The guys came through, and just before the long weekend, delivered the material to my Vegas house. I'll have plenty to do this weekend.









What I didn't expect when the trailer showed up was to see the A frame sitting on it. The guys fabbed me solid travertine countertops, and a bench top for the shower. I was going to use the same tile as the walls for those surfaces. I'm pretty much speechless. 









I'll be moving it up to the UT house tonight. I'll post more progress pics if anyone cares.


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Keep us posted.

BG


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Better take a few helpers with you!! That stuff is heavy.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Never got to setting wall tile. 

Needed to get flooring done first. With the electric radiant floor at risk until its covered, that was a priority. Before installation, and after every step until its protected, resistance needs to be measured with a digital meter. Measurements should stay consistent.









To help prevent future problems around the wet areas I laid down more waterproofing outside the shower, and around the closet flange.









Finished the cuts for the shower floor, and got it grouted.













Then laid the main floor after one last resistance check of the heating cable.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

I also had time to frame the lower counter, install sub tops, and dry fit the counters. Yep, they're heavy, but so far, so good.









Spent a lot of time shooting lines for the wall tile layout. Large format material, and relatively small installation surfaces don't leave much room for error.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Looks good so far.....I see you have decent fall towards the drain....:thumb:

Lotsa free space under the one top.....any iron under there?? Lav cutouts??


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

Vegas, how did you make the shower floor tilt toward the drain?


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Maybe he used a pre cast shower pan ??

BG


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

SABL said:


> Looks good so far.....I see you have decent fall towards the drain....:thumb:
> 
> Lotsa free space under the one top.....any iron under there?? Lav cutouts??


No iron. Framing is 12" OC, and I'll build custom towel cubbys on the counter return which will transfer the loads to the floor. As is, it's solid enough for me to sit on. I'm waiting to do the lav cutouts. I may try something a little less typical.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Solidify said:


> Vegas, how did you make the shower floor tilt toward the drain?


I built that floor by hand, from scratch. There are many ways to build these floors. I went with the tried and true 3 piece drain, preslope, liner, mud bed technique. Its a solid way to build a shower floor with custom dimensions. There are a lot of details you must respect, but here is a quick summary to give you an idea of what's involved. 

A tub occupied the space prior, so the size of the drain needed to be increased, and set in the desired location.









Finished plumbing supply and DWV systems, closed up the floor, framed with lots of blocking. A layer of roofing felt, and lathe got secured to the floor. Next is creating the preslope. Its a layer of drypack, or sand mix installed in a manner to direct water from the waterproof liner to a specific part of the drain. This must have a consistent slope, with no place for water to stand, which could lead to mold(and a tear out). The drypack material used is mixed very stiff to maintain its shape. The shine you see is from a little water sprinkled on top to aid in getting it smooth.

















Next I installed the PVC liner. The way corners are shaped, and how it wraps over the entrance curb are critical. This must remain water tight. Aside from the drain hole, no penetrations/fasteners are below the plane at 2" above finished curb. A 3 piece drain has a ring that clamps to the liner to secure it. As small amounts of water eventually migrate through the grout, thinset, and mud bed, it travels down the liner to small weep holes in the clamping ring, and then into the drain. 









Once the liner is finished, a flood test should be performed to verify the integrity of the installation. I filled mine up with almost 6" of water, and let it sit all weekend. You want to see absolutely no drop in water level. None.









Once the liner flood test was complete, I installed the drain top. I mixed another batch of dry pack, and laid it over the liner at least an inch thick. This will be the mudbed surface the shower floor tile is installed on, and must also have the proper slope for drainage. The nicer this surface turns out, the easier it will be to tile. Once I finished this I performed another flood test to ensure no leaks. I used a test ball down past the weep holes to make sure the drain was sealed. 









After all that, its ready for tile. Done right, and this floor should last a lifetime. An oversight can lead to a complete redo, and added consequential damage. If someone wants to do this as a DIY project, a lot of homework has to be done first.


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## Solidify (May 12, 2011)

So the PVC liner did not have a slope? The first layer of mud that you put over the liner was the first layer to make the slope? That's what I want to know: what's the process of applying the mud so it drains towards the middle? How did you measure it? How did you do it?


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Yes, the first layer of mud (preslope) is what sets the slope for the PVC sheet liner. That layer of mud is packed to about 1/2" around the drain flange, and will rise to the perimeter at a minimum 1/4"/ft. Using the perimeter bottom plate framing is a good reference for finished height at the edges. You work that mud with a square trowel or wood float from the center outwards, constantly checking with a level for consistency and slope. After the liner is installed the mud bed on top of the liner is finished in a similar fashion.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Who doesn't like shiny, new tools? :grin

Picked this up last week for the wall tile install. It'll rip 24" material, and cut 18's diagonally. Head plunges and bevels so I can miter the corners for a super clean look. Looking forward to seeing what I can create with this.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Looks like you can make a nice mess with that thing......:grin:. All I've ever used are the cheap throw-away saws......I don't do enough to warrant a good saw. I dry cut some of the tile when I built......straight cuts were done with an old tile cutter.....score and snap. Same with my first house to do the 4" X 4" wall tile......lotsa cutting for 2 baths. Used the very same cutter 18yrs later when I built this place......:thumb:


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

I hope I don't make too big a' mess. There's nothing wrong with dry cutters, and tile, as long as its not natural stone. Stones don't seem to snap off in one nice piece. You get lots of little pieces instead. LOL

For all the other tile I've used a 7" MK 470 that I've had for a long time. 18s don't even fit on the table. I'd have to lead them in until they drop, and then roll them through. Its amazing what you can get used to. 

I still have enough to do to justify the new saw. Have a few more simpler bathrooms after this one. I'm even going to try and hand build some of the countertop accessories(TB holder/soap dish/etc) with the scraps. That may turn out to be a mess. LOL


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Most of my cutting has been dry......including Glasweld (asbestos). Not much of it and I won't do it today without a wetsaw......cut outside with the wind at my back when I was much younger. I don't think I have to worry about any more Glasweld......I'm retired.....:grin:

Nice saw....better build a big garage...or shed. Need somewhere to store all your tools....:laugh:. My oldest son has most of my/our tools.......except he sold the 12" planer and one of the slide miters. The slide miter was OK.....I have another one. The planer was a no-no......I still have rough-sawn lumber in the rack....:banghead:. 

I opted to not go with the recessed areas for my bath/shower......don't need the small corners to keep clean. After checking on prices for bath accessories I should have built the alcoves......:rofl:


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

My son can take any tool he wants, when I am dead and not before. He knows it too.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

How's the table support constructed on that DeWalt saw? I've never met an MK tile saw that I liked, but then I'm used to being able to do precision work on the other power tools I use. Never had the chance to use a tile saw that had zero play in the slides, slide supports, and/or table mounts.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Table has 6 rollers on 2 rails. Rollers ride on top of rails. Some guys have complained that adjustments were needed during initial setup to get rid of a bump as the far end rollers come off the end of the rails. Most say its straight from the get go. I won't have a chance to run mine until the weekend.


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## bassfisher6522 (Jul 22, 2012)

I would love to see a photo album of the project from start to finish. Do you have any other photos of jobs you've done. 

When I was in the business, I did a job with a buddy, which we called the monkey room. We created built in full/twin bed setup in a space specified for it w/bamboo guard rail/latter and drawers . Then ran T-111 8" OC as wainscot with 4" green bamboo as chair-rail. Thankfully we were allowed to use regular baseboard window trim for there respective places. Coping/mitering that bamboo, not to mention ripping it was a trick in itself. 

I'll find the pictures of an link them for you to see.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

Interesting. Would be curious to see how accurately it can produce sequential parallel rips from the same piece of tile.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Please share pics of the monkey room, bass. Sounds like it was a fun project.  I scatter pics all over these threads. Sometimes it might be considered littering. LOL

I'll rip up an entire piece during setup, fj. I have a digicaliper to proof. Straight, parallel bevels will really be a test, and may prompt a more robust blade.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks, that would be awesome. I'd love to know how accurate it is without the use of blade stiffeners.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Right out of the box its as true as my square. The 45° bevel and miter are spot on. 22 1/2° bevel doesn't have a stop, but eyeballing their reference cut them really close.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

The cutting capacity for a portable saw is impressive. This a full 18"x18" with plenty of room to spare.











I'm already confident enough in its accuracy that I'm ripping these...











Into these... It process' material really quickly.


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## Fjandr (Sep 26, 2012)

Nice, that is pretty impressive.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Does a nice job, Sparky......:thumb:. Any bigger tile and you'll need an out-feed table.....:laugh:

Good thing the prices of diamond blades aren't what they used to be.....when I first got into the trades they were very expensive......:nonono:. Most people couldn't afford one and used an abrasive blade.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Its a shame that the saw doesn't set the tile too. Heavy, natural stone is a whole different animal compared to other tile. It'll take a few weekends to get it all up, and I'll hold off on the pics until then. This stuff looks really cool.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Pick up some of those suction cup handles, they work great for getting a grip on glass or tile. 
I use them for formica, tile, windows and pretty much anything with a slick surface.

example only:
Sears.com


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestion, kendall.  I don't mind moving them. Its getting them flat on the walls, and ceiling that's the hard part. LOL


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

I would use a smaller lighter tile on the ceiling.

BG


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Been plugging away on the weekends. Its taken a lot of time, but the finished product should last a lifetime. Most of the walls are done. The ceiling gets tiled this weekend with full 18x18x1/2" material. I reframed it to support at least a Mark IV big block Chevy, then wrapped in CBU.













The toilet surround was first to get tiled, so I had a place to go. 










Wrapped around the corner..









Tiling niches with stone is no joke. 





















A couple more weekends, and the stone cutting will be done. Sink is ordered, shower door is ordered, paint and finishing trim is on site. This ones getting close to done.


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## oscer1 (Jan 27, 2010)

looking really nice.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks, oscer. Me and the Mrs are really happy with the way its turning out. :smile:


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

My wife was happy with our bathroom work, it only cost about $40.00 a square yard.
Yea, it is carpeted.

I like the looks of your job.

BG


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

$40/yd isn't chicken scratch, but its a bargain if she's happy. 

Thanks for the compliment, BG. I'm givin er all shes got!


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

It is not a small bathroom, 9x12 ft not including a walk in closet or the toilet room.

BG


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

This one is just about finished. Have some finish carpentry work to do, but the whole thing is functional now. Its tough to pick away at a build like this on the weekends, but it can be done.

Sink is installed and plumbed, paint is on the walls, blinds are up.









Except for paper holder and misc accessories, the water closet is done.











The gorilla in the room is the shower. Lots of details.

Mitered/wrapped jambs to emulate solid blocks of stone.











Put a little design on the back wall. No one can guess what it represents, but I bet one of you will. 











The wall/floor/bench combo turned out great.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Just a couple more.

Plumbing trim out.











LOTS of water.












And since I am an electrician, I had to add some special lighting, controlled via WiFi, or my phone. LOL





















I'm proud of of this build. Nothing easy about it from beginning to end. It turned out better than I thought it would.


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## kendallt (Feb 21, 2007)

Looks great!
Almost makes the bathroom the hangout spot!


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks, Kendall.  Party at my house 4th of July. I got the grill, the steaks, and the fireworks.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Watch out how much water you got flowing.......might get into your wine glasses.......:laugh:

Looks great.....:thumb:



















Might be the 2nd sign??.......:rofl:


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

We're not wine drinkers, so no worries there. As far as the second count, I plead the 5th. LOL


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## Basementgeek (Feb 7, 2005)

Tell us about the lights.

BG


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

My son and I spent 3 days, on and off, trying to get deposits off of shower doors.......:nonono:. We tried 4 different 'store bought' cleaners and 6 home remedies with varying degrees of success. None were perfect.......:frown:

The doors get set today.......after a treatment with RainX. We'll see what happens down the road.......maybe next time use some good car wax.


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## Vegassparky (Nov 24, 2013)

SABL, for really stubborn glass deposits, I found a product called Spot X works excellently. Its a glass polish, and the directions must be followed to a tee, but it works where even muriatic acid didn't. I have some windows that had years of sprinkler over spray, and this is the only thing I found that worked.

BG, The colored LEDs are nothing too special. Typical waterproof RGB 5050's, with a little bit of extra prep to ensure the connections stay dry. 

In the meantime I've finished the downstairs bathroom floor. This was a little different, and I experimented with a new to me product. This method of installation isn't approved by the product mfgr, but its worth it to take a chance for me. 

Started with a slab that previously had carpet laid. It was pretty clean, with only a couple cracks which didn't show any vertical movement.










This bathroom is in the basement, on an outside wall, and can get pretty cold in the winter. A heated floor is planned, but I wanted a way to insulate the heat wire/tile from the slab for quicker warm up, and efficiency. A product called Easy Mat seemed like it may work. Its a 5mm polystyrene floor underpayment. Material is rough cut to size, a primer is applied to the concrete, backing is removed from the roll of foam, then laid out, and pressed down. Its hard to work with, but once down, it seemed to stick well. Once that was all installed, and rolled up the walls for expansion, I laid the heating cable in the appropriate areas, and adhered it with hot glue. The hot glue worked great with the heating wire and foam.










Next was the application of self leveling compound to prep the floor for tile. These pours are never much fun, and they take some coercion to get flat. This material is not approved over the foam, but my field conditions should support the install.










Once that cured a week(with no cracks or crunchy spots), it was time for tile. 










This morning I grouted it with a non cementatious grout. Its not cheap, but it's a whole lot easier to install than regular grout. It also requires no sealing, and is virtually stainproof. A little goes a long way. You can see how much I used for this floor, and it has a shelf life of over a year. I'll use this type of product whenever its appropriate. Its good stuff. 










I'll be able to set the toilet, and caulk the perimeter tonight, and its done. 

Now to go hang a screen door.


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## SABL (Jul 4, 2008)

Looks great so far, Sparky.....:thumb:

My shower doors are 25yrs old......not everything was mineral deposits. Looked like some 'etching' going on over the years......I'm sure my ex used 'Comet' or 'Ajax' once or twice. I almost bought some super-fine grade rubbing compound but these are shower doors and not a collector's car.......:laugh:. RainX looks fine and will help prevent deposits......I hope.


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